Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 03:26:30 PM

Title: NSWE Investment
Post by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
Here you go:
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
I don't like the look of that. They appear skint.

Edit: Comment made because I don't see anything in the post above in terms of a link
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 03:40:29 PM
Good luck and welcome. Hope it all works out for you
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 20, 2018, 03:40:47 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
While I for one welcome our new bound to be a disaster we are the Villa after all overlords.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 03:56:06 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 03:56:52 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.
No excuse for not having the best pitch in the top four divisions, then!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 20, 2018, 03:57:17 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Interesting to see what if any impact this has upon player sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 04:02:59 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 20, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.

Yep, from my seriously alcohol impaired memory, owners can only turn £8m debt into equity per annum. Judging from our borrowing that won't cover our losses. Maybe some FFP-friendly sponsorship (which might mean a trade-off of sell Jack or plonk a fancy name on Villa Park) would help.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 20, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

The debt from a company perspective was pretty much wiped when Xia converted the debt to equity (I think)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 20, 2018, 04:09:10 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKHWikxKFJhjArSXm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on July 20, 2018, 04:10:29 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

Think I read the 55% stake cost £35m so quite a drop already?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 04:13:08 PM
If it is £35m for 55% that means it would be cheaper to buy Aston Villa than it was to buy Virgil van Dijk.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 20, 2018, 04:17:20 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: amfy on July 20, 2018, 04:18:10 PM
My thoughts are that as long as you aren't completely ignoring FFP then a points deduction is unlikely. I reckon as long as we make a stab at it, we'll get away with a fine.

The new investmeant puts us back to just having FFP to worry about - so the figures go back down to about 40mill from what I remember - & we'd already made about 15mill of that by losing the loans and selling people we'd forgotten about like Gollini & Gil - so I I think we'd get away with finding another 10-15mill from players like Bjarnson (who I like but Bruce doesn't) - so maybe Grealish and Chester don't have to go?

Just my musings which make no more or less sense than anyone elses I guess.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Edvard Remberg on July 20, 2018, 04:20:24 PM
Faroese Lions share price just went up
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 20, 2018, 04:20:36 PM
I just hope this means we have turned a corner at last we deserve some luck.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2018, 04:22:16 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 20, 2018, 04:24:32 PM
(https://pics.me.me/for-one-welcome-our-new-billionaire-overlords-quick-meme-con-10454462.png)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: in exile on July 20, 2018, 04:25:22 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

Given what Risso said, no
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 20, 2018, 04:25:25 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

Too right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 20, 2018, 04:30:01 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 20, 2018, 04:34:22 PM
I'm a lot happier today than I was yesterday.

Now I'm going out to buy lots of alcohol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2018, 04:36:27 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on July 20, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


If we get £20m(ish) for him, I guess yes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 20, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
I remain sceptical until I see Nassef and Wes'  Villa tattoos
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on July 20, 2018, 04:42:59 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.

It's also time that Jack was testing himself in the Premier League. Even after today's good news, given the FFP restrictions, it could still take a few years for Villa to climb out of this hole, so it's probably not in his best interests in hanging around for that time.

Still don't see Spurs as the right move for him. How much money do Burnley have ?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 20, 2018, 04:44:34 PM
we are considerably richer now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
I remain sceptical until I see Nassef and Wes'  Villa tattoos

tarikh fakhur mushriq almustaqbal
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
If they sell the players then the value of the club drops overnight. They must have a way around this or they have taken the drop in value into account as part of the deal.

No it doesn't.

Do you not think so? We have Jack worth £20m(ish) - if he is sold are we still as valuable?


From a common sense point of view, if we sell him for something like a realistic valuation, then there's no difference.  We're swapping a player for a pot of cash.  From an accounting point of view, we're actually better off, as he's worth nothing in the books at the moment (youth team players' values aren't capitalised) so every penny we get for him would be pure profit.  We'd then have £25m cash (or whatever) and a profit to offset against FFP losses.

I still want him to stay, obviously, I just think it'll be very difficult for him to.

At worst, it now means that Levy returns cap in hand with the going rate or else he looks elsewhere.  At best, Jack stays.

I personally believe that Jack will still go and that his head can't help but have been turned at the prospect of playing for Spurs (and who can blame him?)  However, I don't think that we'll be selling any of our other players now out of a need to.

I wonder whether in hindsight, Bruce played a masterstroke in his interview in Portugal?  Could he have encouraged teams to play the waiting game, knowing that by the end of the window the goalposts would have been moved?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: charleeco7 on July 20, 2018, 04:46:36 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 20, 2018, 04:53:44 PM
IIRC Man city got done on FFP breaches and were handed 2 punishments. A one man reduction in thier Chumps league squad down to 24 from 25 and a fine of (I think) £50m which they duly paid as let's face it it is only like them buying a squad player.
So if the EFL have approved our new billionaires how much would the fine be and can we not take the fine and pay it?


Eitherway it's a great day. Aston villa will always be wanted
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 20, 2018, 04:54:39 PM
What do we know about these pair? Have they got personal wealth or is it all loans?

Aunty Beeb says:

Aston Villa: Wes Edens & Nassef Sawiris to make 'significant investment' in club
1 hour ago From the sectionAston Villa

Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris say their initial aim is to "bring sustainable success" to Aston Villa



Billionaire businessmen Wes Edens and Nassef Sawiris will inject "significant investment" into Aston Villa, the Championship club has announced.

Egyptian Sawiris is estimated to be worth $6.8bn (£5.2bn), while American financier Edens co-owns the Milwaukee Bucks NBA franchise.

Villa owner Dr Tony Xia will become co-chairman and remain on the board.

The extent of Villa's financial issues came to light after they missed out on promotion back to the Premier League.

Villa, relegated to the Championship in 2016, lost to Fulham in May's play-off final at Wembley - missing out on a return to the top flight that would have been worth in excess of £160m.

The club missed a £4m tax payment in June, with Xia understood to have cash flow problems because of strict rules about money leaving his native China.

Villa reached an agreement with HM Revenue and Customs over the payment soon afterwards.


With Villa also receiving a reduced parachute payment in 2018-19 and sizeable income required to comply with Financial Fair Play regulations, on-field cutbacks are expected.

Former England captain John Terry was the first player to leave the club following their loss at Wembley, while midfielder Jack Grealish is expected to depart and they have also rejected a £5m bid from Stoke City for centre-back James Chester.

There have been staff departures; chief executive Keith Wyness was suspended and then subsequently left Villa Park, and is suing the club for constructive dismissal, while director of football Steve Round left earlier this month.

'Our priority is to strengthen the squad'

In June, former finance director Mark Ansell said Villa had "gone to the casino, rolled the dice and it hasn't worked" after the club's financial problems came to light.

Villa spent vast sums on player recruitment following Dr Xia's takeover in the summer of 2016 and recorded a loss of £14.5m for the 2016-17 season, after losses of £80.7m during the campaign which saw the club's first relegation in 29 years.

The new investors say they want to help fund Villa's return to the top flight.

"As lifelong football fans, we are excited and privileged to have become part of this great club," Sawiris and Edens said in a joint statement.

"Our goal is to bring sustainable success to the club, building on its rich history while respecting its loyal fan base and unique culture.

"We understand that we are stewards of Aston Villa on behalf of the fans and we take that responsibility seriously.


"We look forward to working with Dr Tony to undertake a thorough assessment and evaluation of the club in the coming weeks and our priority is to strengthen the squads and structures ahead of the upcoming season and beyond."

Earlier this month, Dr Xia has said he would consider a "minority investment" in the club.

"We have a common goal of delivering future success for Aston Villa and I look forward to working together to achieve this aim," said Dr Xia in a club statement, which confirmed the investment deal had been ratified by the English Football League.

"To have come so close to achieving promotion last season was a humbling experience.

"In finding such strong partners as Nassef and Wes we're gearing up to fight again and bring back the success that this club deserves and we all so want to provide it with.

"The future is exciting on a number of fronts and I look forward to exploring further business collaborations."

Who are Villa's new investors?

Forbes estimates Sawiris, 57, to have accrued a fortune of about $6.8bn (£5.2bn) as part of Egypt's wealthiest family - his father and brother are also billionaires.

The London-based businessman runs OCI - one of the world's largest nitrogen fertilizer producers - and Orascom Construction.

After a career in finance, Edens, 56, co-founded private equity firm Fortress Investment Group in 1998.

He sold it in January for $3.3bn to a Japanese firm, reportedly making more than $500m in the process, and bought the Milwaukee Bucks NBA team for $550m in 2014 with fellow businessman Marc Lasry.

'Sighs of relief' for Villa supporters

Analysis: Mark Regan, Aston Villa reporter for BBC WM 95.6

There will be a few sighs of relief among Villa fans after Friday's news. Ever since the full-time whistle blew at Wembley and consigned Villa to another season in the Championship, there seems to have been a steady flow of bad news.

The sudden departures of Wyness and Round, the doubts over player sales, paying tax bills and meeting Financial Fair Play regulations were all issues that were bogging the club down. While this news is not a "cure all" it does, at the very least, mean the club should be a whole lot more stable going forward.

There are still questions over just how much the cash injection is and who will hold ultimate power now that Dr Xia is to be a co-chairman, but overall this will be seen as good news for all concerned with Aston Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on July 20, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
I think I'll celebrate with the purchase of the new white away shirt complete with PL badges!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:02:56 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:03:26 PM
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 05:05:22 PM
My thoughts exactly
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:06:52 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.

Blimey!!!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2018, 05:09:33 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:11:46 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 20, 2018, 05:14:08 PM
I really hope we get people making football decisions who can see sense and a long term gain. We all raised our eyebrows at the RDM and Round appointments, something tells me that these two chaps have a lot more experience and common sense.....cue the appointment of Big Sam!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 20, 2018, 05:17:48 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 20, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔

Well played. You know have 2 legitimate quotes to fall back on when it’s a roaring success or flaming disaster!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 20, 2018, 05:19:42 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.

Barry didn’t take the penalty because under their current FFP rules, depending on how outrageously we flaunt them, they can fine us, deduct points or simply demote is a number of places. Do you want to win the league at a canter and discover we’re suddenly in the Play-offs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Leicester_Villian on July 20, 2018, 05:20:10 PM
From what I believe there are ways round FFP but we may need to look at these options
They may include stadium naming rights which could generate considerable cash but how would we feel if something prefixed Villa Park?
I cant see Jack not leaving but this deal I think pushes his value up as we are no longer in desperate need of cash
Maybe if we could then raise say 10 million from other sales without losing the main guys that would work
But if we are having a new start then it seems sensible to get a new manager in too
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:22:08 PM
I apologize if this has been answered in detail elsewhere but a friend of mine (United fan, banker) is asking why the new investors/co-owners can't just purchase the debt and start at 0 as far as FFP is concerned. Is there simply a rule in the FFP regulations that forbids this? Does all income have to be generated by sale of assets to factor against FFP losses?

Thanks.

FFP is just to do with income, expenses and losses. Our problems are caused by falling parachute payments and high wages for wasters like Richards.  The only real way out of the problem is to generate profit on player trading, hence the likely sales of Grealish and Chester.

Unless the new owners take a ‘fuck it’ approach to FFP, they’ll still probably have to be sold.
They could negotiate a settlement and pay it.

Barry didn’t take the penalty because under their current FFP rules, depending on how outrageously we flaunt them, they can fine us, deduct points or simply demote is a number of places. Do you want to win the league at a canter and discover we’re suddenly in the Play-offs?
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,
Glad you Find the Barry penalty joke amusing after all these years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frank black on July 20, 2018, 05:22:43 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.

Blimey!!!!

Best get in early, just in case you can say “I told you so!” at some point 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 20, 2018, 05:22:54 PM
Trust me, this will be a disaster.
Trust me, this will be an enormous success.
I can not decide who to believe from you two🤔

Well played. You know have 2 legitimate quotes to fall back on when it’s a roaring success or flaming disaster!

You have seen through my plan. One of those posts will mysteriously disappear in the years to come.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 20, 2018, 05:31:42 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: manic-road on July 20, 2018, 05:37:21 PM
Reading up on Wes Edens, he has some history of turning around an ailing sports club and turning them into competitors at the top level. Hope he can do the same at the Villa.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 05:41:55 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

Bless their cotton socks - They never learn do they?

Imagine how bitter and twisted they'll all be feeling tonight?  8)

This numpty is not far off the mark though to be fair.  I'd imagine he'd be in the top 2% on the "Education Levels Among Blues fans" thread  ;D:

Quote
They're like one of those birthday cake candles that re-light after you've blown them out. Utterly predictable and depressing this news is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:42:49 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

We always come up smelling of roses, jammy bas!*$$ds they are, why can they get investment and not us, we are the Birmingham team, ha ha ohh bless them
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Three Spires Villa on July 20, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
Jack and Chester to sign 5 year deals, then the champagne corks start to pop!!!! :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 05:47:45 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2018, 05:48:00 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2018, 05:57:49 PM
Right assuming this is all as it seems, how do we get round FFP and plough money into the playing squad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 20, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
There's some excellent flouncing on the SHA forum.

We always come up smelling of roses, jammy bas!*$$ds they are, why can they get investment and not us, we are the Birmingham team, ha ha ohh bless them

Not jammy, that history they always take the piss out of us is what defines us, what gives us the stature and standing in English football. The sooner they come to terms with this the less it will hurt......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2018, 05:59:33 PM
If it is £35m for 55% that means it would be cheaper to buy Aston Villa than it was to buy Virgil van Dijk.

But Virgil is unlikely to cost you about 3 times that in the coming years and a shitload of angry Brummies on your case.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 06:02:30 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

That's because, as has been said numerous times before, no one as breached FFP since the rule change. And your last sentence is exactly what will lead to severe punishments.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: achilles on July 20, 2018, 06:02:52 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,




And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

Yes, I think if we negotiated with the EFL and we presented a plan to reduce costs with the new majority owners then I would think that we would get away with just a fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 20, 2018, 06:07:58 PM
The financial disparity between the PL and the Championship is ridiculous! Liverpool paying  £67M for a fucking goalkeeper?? Keep Jack and Chessie at all costs! We're talking wealth of thousands of millions...risk a fine!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 06:11:31 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.

That's because, as has been said numerous times before, no one as breached FFP since the rule change. And your last sentence is exactly what will lead to severe punishments.
QPR is still appealing, there are other appeals in Europe.
The problem with a rule change is lack of precedent.
My view is that the new investors would have a strategy concerning the implications of FFP and will be having conversations and making appropriate plans to deal with it.
The fact that there is now real money and by the looks of skilled management, is in my opinion a game changer.
We can but hope.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Comrade Blitz on July 20, 2018, 06:39:48 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fasth56 on July 20, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





I think the important part of the ruling is the "change of ownership" as the club were in a much better position than previously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 06:49:41 PM
And breathe...hopefully.

Welcome gentlemen, you will never own a better footballing institution.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: yammers on July 20, 2018, 06:55:16 PM
But most important can we possibly tell Levy to fuck off?

I would imagine that he would have to pay top dollar now as we’re no longer in dire straits. I prefer your version of telling him to get fucked though!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 07:03:36 PM
I actually think I have figured out a away around ffp. I am going to try Nd get my head around it but thinks are making sense in my head
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villadelph on July 20, 2018, 07:09:43 PM
Wesley R. Edens is a Founder and Co-Chairman of the Board of Directors of Fortress Investment Group LLC. Fortress was founded in 1998 and is a $62 billion alternative asset management company with headquarters in New York and offices around the world.

Nassef has a net wealth of $6.6bn and is the richest Egyptian in the world.

I have a hunch we're gonna be alright.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
That didn’t take long

https://www.avfc.co.uk/club/whos-who
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 07:19:21 PM
From the owner of a basketball team to the owner of a basket case football club.  I'm really, really hoping we've got it right this time.  Anyway, here's to a great season for us all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 07:25:48 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
That was really the point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 20, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
No I said we negotiate a settlement and pay it,


And if it's a points deduction? Or we're denied promotion or a spot in the play-offs?
I am pretty sure these people know what they are doing.
There is nothing to stop them discussing the situation now.
If the result of those conversations is a point deduction then we know that they will have to flog the family silver.
I do not believe there has been an FFP points deduction so it would be brave of the league to single us out.
Based on the ( speculative) financial information that is out there, I think it might be impossible to avoid breaching FFP so you could be in the might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Pretty brave (in bold) after all that we’ve seeen from Lerner and Xia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 20, 2018, 07:30:03 PM
Very excited by this and surely two billionaires are better than one!

The Sawiris are the richest family in Egypt despite being from the minority (and oft discriminated against) Coptic community. Must be savvy business people.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Confusious says on July 20, 2018, 07:31:19 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does





The thing of consistency you are asking for sounds like the Villa Engine!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 07:32:14 PM
Be interesting to see who they appoint as CEO. We haven't had much luck in that department for a few years now.
Hopefully they get someone in who knows how to run a football club on a daily basis.
I also reckon that the Doctor wont be around for more than a few more months. I think his co-chairmanship is just a way of helping him save face and as soon as is decently possible the new guys will buy him out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 20, 2018, 07:33:22 PM
Good to see you again TLP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: David_Nab on July 20, 2018, 07:34:55 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





Different rules , however the crux of Milans case was going forward under new ownership they could pay there way ...as can we now
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 20, 2018, 07:35:38 PM
Back to the noses the depression over there is wonderful. From us being skint and on the verge of turning off lights we end up with not one, but two legitimate billionaires.

It ain’t fair Tom
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 07:36:03 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Man With A Stick on July 20, 2018, 07:36:58 PM
Seeing one of them owns a basketball team, isn't there a lanky streak of piss in the youth team we could sell to them for £40m?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2018, 07:44:19 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

Someone linked a bloomberg profile earlier and on the bottom of that it makes reference to this so I had a little bit of a dig around and it appears this was overturned on appeal - http://www.oci.nl/investor-relations/news/2014/11/04/oci-wins-tax-case-egypt/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 07:47:23 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

Someone linked a bloomberg profile earlier and on the bottom of that it makes reference to this so I had a little bit of a dig around and it appears this was overturned on appeal - http://www.oci.nl/investor-relations/news/2014/11/04/oci-wins-tax-case-egypt/

That reads a lot more positively 👍😇
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 07:49:55 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 20, 2018, 08:00:06 PM
Board Members

Executive Chairman   Nassef Sawiris
Co-Chairman   Wes Edens
Co-Chairman
Dr Tony Xia
Advisor to the Board
Brian Little

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:00:34 PM
This can only be good news.

However let's hope these guys ideas for moving forward revolve around more than just spending 40-50m on 29 year olds next summer.

Hopefully they can look at a club like Southampton and how they were rebuilt from on their knees to a relatively stable premier league club that promotes youth and scouts well.

I guess we can spend a bit in January now?

Don't know if the new owners rate Steve Bruce or not but would imagine his brief will be to keep us competitive in the top half up to January and then we'll strengthen in that window with SB or another manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 20, 2018, 08:02:19 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 08:03:31 PM
Some one a couple of pages back mentioned selling the stadium naming rights as a way of helping us out with FFP.
I could live with that as long as it's a company with strong local ties and a few million quid to spend.
Jaguar Land Rover Villa Park anyone?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 20, 2018, 08:07:15 PM
That didn’t take long

https://www.avfc.co.uk/club/whos-who
No Ho ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 08:08:47 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?


No intent to change the manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 20, 2018, 08:09:33 PM
Welcome.
Question number 1. Is there anyway a solution can be found that prevents us selling our best players?

Not Jack, no. But we don't have to cull the rest.
What about Bruce Chelts?


No intent to change the manager.

They can feck right orf then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 20, 2018, 08:10:48 PM
Oh ffs here we go again!

Someone take this dinosaur off our hands
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:12:52 PM
I can honestly see it SB keeping us 8-10th up to xmas and then new guys will bring in their new manager around that time.

Guess they've looked at it now as too close to the season to make a change which is a view I wouldn't disagree with.

 There will be a new manager eventually as that's what happens with 95% of new owners, they want their own man in. Just need to get the time right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 20, 2018, 08:18:40 PM
I would imagine they have put a downpayment, at a discount, into the club to stabilise it , take a good look at what they have bought into over the coming months and take it from there, paying off Dr Tony when they decide that it's a goer.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:19:12 PM
IIRC Man city got done on FFP breaches and were handed 2 punishments. A one man reduction in thier Chumps league squad down to 24 from 25 and a fine of (I think) £50m which they duly paid as let's face it it is only like them buying a squad player.
So if the EFL have approved our new billionaires how much would the fine be and can we not take the fine and pay it?


Eitherway it's a great day. Aston villa will always be wanted

Can't really compare us to Man. City anymore I'm afraid.

In last two years Forest, Bolton and Blackburn all went over FFP and they were all given transfer embargos for periods of time so were reduced to signing out of contract players.

SHA currently also have transfer restrictions as they couldn't register their new signing last week.

Now we have fresh capital the last thing we need is ignoring this and being banned from transfers in January when we might be in o.k position to challenge for top 6.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 20, 2018, 08:21:20 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does

I agree

Just not sure trying to sort that two weeks before the season starts is sensible

For me the plan this year remains stabilisation and blood the kids

Then next year ffp will be much easier and we can implement a proper plan, with a clear vision

If the right manager lands in our lap in the meantime id take it but they'll be in short supply
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 20, 2018, 08:24:03 PM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does

I agree

Just not sure trying to sort that two weeks before the season starts is sensible

For me the plan this year remains stabilisation and blood the kids

Then next year ffp will be much easier and we can implement a proper plan, with a clear vision

If the right manager lands in our lap in the meantime id take it but they'll be in short supply
Hopefully with Jack on board :-\
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 08:24:26 PM
Reading up on Wes Edens, he has some history of turning around an ailing sports club and turning them into competitors at the top level. Hope he can do the same at the Villa.

Most pleasing thing for me is one of the guys at least has good experience of running a sports team.

According to the website though looks like Nas is the main man.

My one word of caution would be we have two new figureheads wanting to make decisions and also Xia still lurking around like a sulking kid so let's hope we can get agreement on the major decisions.

I still remember all the chaos Hicks and Gillett caused at Liverpool by not even speaking to each other at the end so whole club was in limbo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 20, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Some one a couple of pages back mentioned selling the stadium naming rights as a way of helping us out with FFP.
I could live with that as long as it's a company with strong local ties and a few million quid to spend.
Jaguar Land Rover Villa Park anyone?

Its something that could be looked at but deals like that must represent fair market value.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: BoVillan esq on July 20, 2018, 08:28:23 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?

Exactly, why mess around, start as you mean to carry on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: davidb on July 20, 2018, 08:35:53 PM
Been 5 hours and no new signing. Sack the board. Get someone else in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 20, 2018, 08:38:54 PM
The most encouraging thing about all this is that the new people in charge are known quantities, in that we know who they are and where their wealth comes from.

No more tenebrous hairdresser wannabes. These guys would appear to be the real deal, and it's hard to argue with their CVs.

Hopefully they'll eschew short cuts, and start laying the groundwork for a joined-up, long-term project. Even if that means accepting a couple more seasons in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 20, 2018, 08:44:08 PM
Very excited by this and surely two billionaires are better than one!


Here's the thing, if Tony is sticking around (and, who knows, maybe he is) he is another potential source of finance in the medium to long term.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 20, 2018, 08:54:35 PM
Any chance of our Egyptian connection getting Mo Salah stretching the shirt any time soon?

Exactly, why mess around, start as you mean to carry on.

New mascot is a camel. Eating a chilli dog.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 20, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
Some interesting stuff about our new major share holders on the club site. It appears that Nassef Sawiris has some serious connections in the sports world.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2018/07/20/five-things-to-know-about-our-new-investors
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Deano's Mullet on July 20, 2018, 08:57:57 PM
Life suddenly seems a bit rosier tonight!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on July 20, 2018, 09:23:14 PM
I might sleep tonight now....and dream of beating Burton tomorrow. Onwards and upwards! UTV!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 20, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
Wish you had not used the D word FMWMU.  Now I shall worry that I am dreaming all this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tone74 on July 20, 2018, 10:06:56 PM
I know I shouldn't laugh...bigger fish and all that but SHA is beautiful at the moment......the bitter are getting twisted....full meltdown....he who laughs last!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 20, 2018, 10:18:05 PM
Just for a little bit of context there's an Egyptian who posts on another football forum I'm on.

This is his succinct view of Sawiris.

Quote
Sawiris family is hated here, especially his brother, Nagiub Sawiris.

But that's not due to hating issues. Egyptian businessmen aren't going to get a club and spend on it for the sake of it like Qatar or UA. These clubs are just another business and source of money for them. I'll be surprised if he ends up actually willing to make the club good enough.

He also mentioned Al Fayed and that mad owner at Hull as examples.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 20, 2018, 10:26:31 PM
Well they both got their clubs promoted!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2018, 10:30:28 PM
Well that makes sense, but we need to be a good football team to make money.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 20, 2018, 10:31:19 PM
Well they both got their clubs promoted!

Plus nobody is expecting him to spend "for the sake of it"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 20, 2018, 10:43:50 PM
Serious question: how will we stop irresponsible people at the club going on another player-buying spree to load us up with more ageing players on long-term contracts?

Now that we have arrested the financial problems, I sincerely hope that there will be an injection of intelligence, common sense and some coaching & tactics!

They could get rid of 'em all & bring in some responsible replacements. ;)
That was really the point.

D'oh!

I clearly should've stuck to crap Egyptian puns. :-[

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 20, 2018, 10:48:56 PM
If they're a source of money, they must make money. If we're making money, we're in the Premier League.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MorrisNielson on July 20, 2018, 10:50:16 PM
New money coming into club can only be good news.

Just a thought, didn't Tone state that he had converted some debt into equity.
So would this debt be sucked up with these new chaps coming in, thus improving our book keeping?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on July 20, 2018, 11:11:33 PM
So our new invester made his money from fertilizer... Something to remember should it all go to shit.

I sell fertiliser in Egypt too, not quite as much evidently!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu on July 20, 2018, 11:47:12 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

If you want to know what's going on down the Villa, ask a bluenose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 20, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
I am absolutely thrilled by this. Have high hopes and a naive dream we can still find a way round FFP and keeping JG & JC. My only balancing comment would be this I discovered from the Cairo Post in 2014. May not mean anything other than a business liability pushed to the limit, no idea if or how it was resolved:

CAIRO: Egyptian billionaire businessman Nassef Onsi Sawiris was handed a primary judicial ruling to a three-year sentence and a fine of 50 million EGP (US $6.99 million) for refraining from paying checks to the Egyptian Tax Authority, Al-Ahram quoted Reuters.

Sawiris, the CEO of Orascom Construction Industries Company, is the youngest brother to the two famous tycoons; Naguib and Samih.

Al-Ahram reported that Orascom Company reached a deal with the Egyptian Tax Authority to settle a tax dispute, where the agreement then stipulated that the company pays 7.1 billion EGP in installments.

Although Orascom had already paid two batches worth 2.5 Billion EGP, it didn’t pay the rest of the scheduled installments since the ouster of former President Mohamed Morsi in July 3, 2013.

Nassef Sawiris was ranked the 183th richest person in the world and fourth in Africa in 2014, his net worth was estimated by Forbes to be $7.3 billion.

If you want to know what's going on down the Villa, ask a bluenose.

You talking about me?! Read my post history over x years - don’t post often but always through claret & blue eyes - very disappointed with that reaction. Was simply sharing what I had seen. If you bothered to look beyond that post you will see I then responded with relief when there was a subsequent report posted that showed the ruling had been overturned 😡
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 20, 2018, 11:54:32 PM
I don't think he was referring to you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: A Northern Soul on July 21, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
I don't think he was referring to you.

Hope not. Been quite a day and didn’t want it ended by becoming a Nose 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2018, 01:16:39 AM
I don't think he was referring to you.

Hope not. Been quite a day and didn’t want it ended by becoming a Nose 😊

No, it's just a general rule of thumb.

On a side notr, I was working again yesterday with my little bluenose mate who has loved the last couple of months, but believes every bit of transfer tatyle.

'Have you seen your new transfer"

"No, whos that

"Embargo"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 07:00:48 AM
Nerd alert.

The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dorsetvillian on July 21, 2018, 07:04:57 AM
They do look like the real deal and have experience in all areas we need. How they deal with FFP will be interesting. The season may still be a struggle but at least we can look forward rather than worrying about the very existence of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on July 21, 2018, 07:35:13 AM
So regarding ffp can we just rename the stadium? At this point im not bothered. I'll always call it Villa park
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MalcolmP on July 21, 2018, 08:15:29 AM
.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MalcolmP on July 21, 2018, 08:19:22 AM
This must have been in the pipeline for weeks!

I want a new head coach. A new youth team coach both playing the exact same style with The exact same philosophy so players from the kid through to the first team play exactly the same way! Including formation. I also likr the thought that should the manager leave the youth team manager coukd step in and in turn be replaced as the youth team manager. Constant plan in place from the bottom up with 1 philosophy and 1 direction clearly laid out by the owners.

This could become a reality and I hope it does
Gareth Southgate for new head coach?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 21, 2018, 08:34:45 AM
Well the new owners have Howard Hodgson’s blessing, so it must be a good thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 21, 2018, 08:37:21 AM
So regarding ffp can we just rename the stadium? At this point im not bothered. I'll always call it Villa park

Yes we could, but it would have to be at a market rate. What that is, is clearly subjective. But given Villa Park is a lot football fans favourite ground, is the best traditional football stadia in English football, has been sporting Villa Park since 1897 etc etc, it's less likely that a complete name change would be of significant value. Something at Villa Park may have more value; "ADIDAS at Villa Park" but we are probably talking £3m maximum.

In our favour is that we're the most media exposed club in our league, which has a significant emerging market in China.

But the Etihad deal was cart before the horse. Man City could certainly dictate the cost of sponsorship now, but the market value test is designed to avoid a leg up.

That said, look at the vast array of sponsorship and commercial relations that the Champions League clubs have.

There's nothing to stop us having an official fertilizer partnership or the such like.

The fact is we need to increase commercial revenue and that's sponsorship and also bums on seats. We'd be £7m better off a season if we could get more folk off their backside and filling B6.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rico on July 21, 2018, 08:39:24 AM
Regarding FFP, could the owners not set up a feeder club, let's call it Bodymoor Heath Villa FC, and enter it in some obscure league somewhere. Then, all future signings are made by the feeder club and immediately loaned out to AVFC. We could then sell Grealish, Chester and Kodjia to feeder club for an incredibly large fee and then immediately loan them back. All FFP debt instantly gone. The other part of this is even better - we could transfer McCormack and Richards to feeder club and get some money for them too. Winner!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 21, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I’d rather start by buying Small Heath, closing it down and using it for car boot sales.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on July 21, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
A very cautious welcome for me. Seen too many AVFC owners turn out as bad or worse as the old one to be that enthusiastic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 21, 2018, 08:48:33 AM
Well it didn't take long for the new manager rumours to start.
According to the Heil sources say Bruce is on his way on the other hand sources say he's staying.
Daily Heil (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5976079/Thierry-Henry-shortlist-bosses-Aston-Villa-managers-job-Steve-Bruce-leave.html)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on July 21, 2018, 08:56:34 AM
Just paper crap i reckon. I'd be worried if we seriously went for Henry. We haven't got the support set-up at the club to take on someone inexperienced like him. We need a guy who can run the club top to bottom in his own image at least at this level.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2018, 08:58:08 AM
A person who understands football administration is a key appointment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 21, 2018, 09:04:44 AM
You're right, we haven't done too well in our CEO appointments for years. Someone in the Steve Stride mold would be good.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 21, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
Welcome to Sawiris and Edens. Hopefully they will play their part in removing some of the dross at VP (new broom and all that). 
A long way to go yet, but the cream that is Aston Villa will rise to the top again, much to the annoyance of our bitter and scum neighbours.
UTV! VTID!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2018, 09:53:54 AM
A person who understands football administration is a key appointment.

We will have to see what happens, but I also hope for some appointments who will put in place a structure to take the club forward, preferably built around the development and promotion of young players.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
You're right, we haven't done too well in our CEO appointments for years. Someone in the Steve Stride mold would be good.
Agreed , or someone like David Dein
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 21, 2018, 10:01:24 AM
Regarding FFP, could the owners not set up a feeder club, let's call it Bodymoor Heath Villa FC, and enter it in some obscure league somewhere. Then, all future signings are made by the feeder club and immediately loaned out to AVFC. We could then sell Grealish, Chester and Kodjia to feeder club for an incredibly large fee and then immediately loan them back. All FFP debt instantly gone. The other part of this is even better - we could transfer McCormack and Richards to feeder club and get some money for them too. Winner!

No.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 21, 2018, 10:17:00 AM
Nerd alert.

The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 10:34:41 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: auntiesledd on July 21, 2018, 10:40:56 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 21, 2018, 10:40:57 AM
Would like that Italian guy who was at Southampton a few years back, Nicola something. Anyway he made a very brave call to sack Adkins when they weren't even in the bottom 3 and got in some unknown called Pochettino.

Seems a pretty ruthless operator which isn't a bad thing although don't know if he's been involved in football since.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 21, 2018, 10:46:25 AM
Cortese, I think?

It's not fair on Blose - how come we always seem to get big investment from somewhere at the 11th hour? Just doesn't seem right - they even carry the name of the city, unlike crappy little Aston.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 21, 2018, 10:53:16 AM
Edit: Quoting the Sun is not a good move!

Anyway yeah it's Nicola Cortese and there's some good interviews on him. Dosen't seem like he's been involved in football since January 2014 when he left.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 21, 2018, 11:16:52 AM
Just reading this now- is this all a dream ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 21, 2018, 11:22:46 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Honestly, some of you just go whichever way the wind is blowing
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 21, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
And we won't be in need of any pointers in the team either
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 21, 2018, 11:37:08 AM
One of the by products of this latest ‘investment’ HAS to be a massive lift it will have given to the club and hopefully the players.

The turmoil of the last couple of months must have had an impact on the daily goings on at the club, you only have to look at the doom and gloom amongst fans to see how devastating the whole financial situation has been.

But, a gigantic millstone has now been lifted from the club.

I hope that now the players take this new positivity into the new season, knowing that the good times really could be just around the corner.

They have all to play for, with no distractions.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
Just reading this now- is this all a dream ?
Nope. All our troubles appear to be over. 😀
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 21, 2018, 12:48:04 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 21, 2018, 12:51:35 PM
Too Big To Fail.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 21, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right

Everything points to that - From Wyness's drunken tweet to the reports in the mail.

A complete takeover probably takes months, not weeks so given the crisis point that the club were at, the only feasible way to get new investment in, in time would have been what we've seen, ie a majority shareholding now and full takeover at some point in the future (most likely within the next 12 months).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 21, 2018, 01:37:28 PM
do people on here think it's just a face saving deal for dr Tony and he will gradually be moved out in some sort of dignified manner with the two main boys taking over completely in time

it comes over that way to me at the moment but I'm not sure I'm right

Everything points to that - From Wyness's drunken tweet to the reports in the mail.

A complete takeover probably takes months, not weeks so given the crisis point that the club were at, the only feasible way to get new investment in, in time would have been what we've seen, ie a majority shareholding now and full takeover at some point in the future (most likely within the next 12 months).

I hope not.  For all the mistakes Xia has made over the past twenty-four months I still feel he could have much to offer the new boardroom in terms of his enthusiasm and energy.  Looking into the businesses of the two new guys, there is much overlap in terms of the industries in which all three operate so it wouldn't surprise me if Tony sticks around as a junior partner in the ownership group.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 21, 2018, 01:44:17 PM
What hasn’t been spoken about is that as much as Xia has a lot to do with the financial problems his business connections may very well have helped save the club. We’ve all seen him presenting at conferences or networking in various parts of the world. Billionaires like these two don’t appear on everyone’s contact list so whatever role Xia played in getting these two in he should be commended for doing so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Deano's Mullet on July 21, 2018, 01:58:08 PM
Booked my ticket for Wigan. Bring it on! UTV
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 02:10:48 PM
It is only intuition but I can see Tony Xia contributing to our rise in the medium term. The business community in China is hunkering down for a trade war with Trump.  The trap door that was the play off final could not have occurred at a worse time for Xia.  I think he has ridden out the worst of the financial firestorm competently.  I judge that his financial circumstances will improve and permit him to involve himself with Villa, for whom I believe he has genuine attachment.

My view is that the debacle of Trump in Europe, Trump and NATO, Trump in Helsinki puts him on the brink of impeachment.  The spectre of a trade war will subside allowing Tony Xia and entrepreurs like him to return to a more favourable commercial climate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 21, 2018, 02:12:56 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 21, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.

Bring on the mid-terms.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 21, 2018, 03:17:50 PM
The baddies will win. That's what happens in elections.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 21, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
CAS overturned AC Milan's FFP Europa ban. Villa should appeal as well. Fuck 'em all.

http://www.kickoff.com/news/87791/ac-milans-european-football-ban-ffp-brea





Different rules , however the crux of Milans case was going forward under new ownership they could pay there way ...as can we now

I think the crux of it was the punishment didn't fit the crime.

In the case of points deduction in the EFL, unless a number of points is specified in advance with a sliding scale based on extent of failing FFP, I do not believe it would be enforceable in the eyes of the law. If it was open-ended and the EFL gave, say, a 10 point deduction to prevent a club being promoted, the club would immediately go to court for an injunction pending the result of a court case challenging it. The grounds for the injunction would be on the basis of the EFL not being able to put right after the event if they lost in court. Could you imagine if an injunction was given and promotion/relegation being held up. The leagues/divisions would come to a standstill. This is why I do not believe FFP failure will result in meaningful points deduction, only finance related or transfer embargoes. It will be different if they actually set the punishment in advance (which, by the way, I think they should bring in).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 21, 2018, 04:54:15 PM
My view is that Dr Tony has a price he would sell for and these guys will pay it once they are backbone premier. The deal is part ownership now and buy at agreed price once there.
DRTony gets his money back and does not lose face in China (this is of critical importance in the Chinese business world) once there they I am sure have thier own plans
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 21, 2018, 05:10:45 PM
There's no way a Republican-dominated Congress will vote to impeach a Republican President.

Bring on the mid-terms.

Russians are already fiddling with the election apparently
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 21, 2018, 06:22:31 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 06:29:15 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 21, 2018, 07:02:17 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

 :D

That's the dark web for you!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 21, 2018, 07:05:53 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

Must be an old blue nose as I remember my Nan saying that!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 07:10:56 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 21, 2018, 07:49:08 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
My nan would have referred to the back of Rackhams and included "fur coat and no knickers" in the same sentence- just what went on in St Phillips Square doesn't bear thinking about :)
I recall when I lived in Brum - a woman had her hair done in Rackhams and then attempted suicide immediately after by jumping out of the window - unfortunately she landed on a poor soul walking beneath and killed him/her instead - 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on July 21, 2018, 08:32:13 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?

Must be an old blue nose as I remember my Nan saying that!

My mom said it as well, except it was “feather bed” not suit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 21, 2018, 08:33:51 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit
was that a "suit or a slut"?
That made me chuckle
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nodge on July 21, 2018, 08:56:02 PM
Your Nan would have said Lewis's not Rackhams.  Respect.
My nan would have referred to the back of Rackhams and included "fur coat and no knickers" in the same sentence- just what went on in St Phillips Square doesn't bear thinking about :)
I recall when I lived in Brum - a woman had her hair done in Rackhams and then attempted suicide immediately after by jumping out of the window - unfortunately she landed on a poor soul walking beneath and killed him/her instead - 


I was just about to post that my mate's next door neighbour jumped off Rackhams and unfortunately she didn't land in a suit she landed on a passer by. Mrs Legge I think her name was, lived on Belchers Lane, Bordesley Green. True story.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 21, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
Makes me feel old remembering Brum before Rackhams.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 21, 2018, 09:29:40 PM
Amusing reaction on that lot.com

Quote
lentini2001
If blues fell into a bucket of tits they would come out sucking a thumb.

Whereas that lot would fall off the roof of Rackham's and land in a suit

We are Don Draper to their Benny from Crossroads. 

They know it, we know it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2018, 10:09:01 PM
Makes me feel old remembering Brum before Rackhams.

Delving through my family tree, my grandad's cousin, Maurice Isacke Clutterbuck, was chairman of Rackham and Co in the 1920s.  My grandad also had the middle name Isacke, which was the maiden name of my great grandmother.  Birmingham royalty, me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 21, 2018, 11:02:20 PM
What hasn’t been spoken about is that as much as Xia has a lot to do with the financial problems his business connections may very well have helped save the club. We’ve all seen him presenting at conferences or networking in various parts of the world. Billionaires like these two don’t appear on everyone’s contact list so whatever role Xia played in getting these two in he should be commended for doing so.

Yes, well done Dr Tony, well done for bringing the club to the edge of financial meltdown in the space of 18 months, managing to bring about a situation where we have stories like this:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-saved-steve-12958776

... only to accept an offer from some people he'd never have heard of had he not got us so desperate in the first place, thereby attracting their attention.

The sooner we get rid of this shyster, the better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2018, 11:26:01 PM
Yes, I’m not sure how much credit can be taken from basically having us on the verge of going to the wall. We’re fortunate that wealthy investors have been prepared to invest, but it’s not like this is on the back of a coherent plan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 21, 2018, 11:35:44 PM
He was clearly an opportunist, a gambler, who would have cashed in if we'd been promoted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jay on July 21, 2018, 11:48:26 PM
He was clearly an opportunist, a gambler, who would have cashed in if we'd been promoted.
yeah I agree
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 21, 2018, 11:52:51 PM
I'd go with gambler more than chancer/shyster. Mainly because he did have access to the best part of £150m, which in my experience the chancer/shyster types don't. I think more Knighton with those terms, wanted to buy Man Utd, but could only afford Carlisle and UFO chasing.

Such a shame that the whole regenerating the area appears to have been load of old bollocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wozwebs on July 21, 2018, 11:55:44 PM
Interesting article. Tony turned down £90m from a Saudi Group.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-saved-steve-12958776
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 22, 2018, 05:26:14 AM
What happened to the Meaning Evil’s pages of explanation that everything would take time because of due diligence etc?!? Shows they haven’t a scoobies
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 22, 2018, 07:43:29 AM
Interestingly, Adidas has a net worth of about $37 billion (2017 figure). Nassef Sawiris is it's largest individual shareholder at 6% holding. He bought in when Adidas was going through a rough spell in 2014. Afterwards the brand soared in the next 2 years. He seems a very astute businessman looking at articles I've read. I reckon we'll see Villa in Adidas kit at some point - not sure how long the Luke 1977 agreement runs for?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 07:56:53 AM
My opinion of Xia is similar to that of PWS.  He is a gambler.  A gambler who got in over his head.  It is the nature of gambling.  I extend to him the courtesy of letting a clearer picture of what actually happened at the club in the aftermath of the play off final before I call him a crook.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: myf on July 22, 2018, 08:07:38 AM
My opinion of Xia is similar to that of PWS.  He is a gambler.  A gambler who got in over his head.  It is the nature of gambling.  I extend to him the courtesy of letting a clearer picture of what actually happened at the club in the aftermath of the play off final before I call him a crook.

Will be interesting to see how vocal xia is on twitter from now on.  I'm hoping they be instructed him to stay off it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 08:25:48 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: wozwebs on July 22, 2018, 08:47:36 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 08:50:57 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

It’s NSFW in my eyes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 22, 2018, 09:00:33 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Yes, it seems there has been an apparent lack of understanding about how to create a sustainable and club-wide framework in which good players can be acquired, developed and allowed to do what they do best. It is not only poor process; it’s been a lack of focus on developing a culture which encourages the ‘right’ behaviours and defines who to bring in to enhance the playing squad. All of which would have enhanced the academy’s and other playing staff; and the non-playing staff.
Ellis lacked that last bit (culture development) as well, but at least made up for it with the right administrators and some process.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:16:52 AM
Interestingly, Adidas has a net worth of about $37 billion (2017 figure). Nassef Sawiris is it's largest individual shareholder at 6% holding. He bought in when Adidas was going through a rough spell in 2014. Afterwards the brand soared in the next 2 years. He seems a very astute businessman looking at articles I've read. I reckon we'll see Villa in Adidas kit at some point - not sure how long the Luke 1977 agreement runs for?
If he is an astute business man, and I believe he is as he is considerably wealthy, he would instruct  his management to do the most commercially favourable kit deal not just move to Adidas.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holte132 on July 22, 2018, 09:18:41 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

Yes
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:19:15 AM
Anyone else read it NSWE as North, South, West and East?

It’s NSFW in my eyes.
Everything must start in the land of rising sun so it should be EWNS. We will conquer the world. This was always the real Xia plan.😧
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villabear on July 22, 2018, 09:22:13 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:22:47 AM
In my very personal, very humble opinion, the Villa problems of the post Ellis era cannot be bundled up and dumped on two owners, Lerner and Xia both of whom sustained very heavy financial haircuts for the privilege of owning Aston Villa.  Our failure has been systemic and it is that systemic failure from the top to the bottom of the club that now needs to be addressed.
Yes Brian we have been painting over the damp patch time and time again instead of fixing it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 09:26:05 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Sort of headline that must be music to the ears of fans of our neighbours. Any chance you could cut and paste the whole article please?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pbavfckuwait on July 22, 2018, 09:27:59 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 09:37:44 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.

I agree but you can have the best framework and Football structures in the world but the whole thing lives or dies depending on who the manager is

Man Utd are the biggest footballing global brand but it was only built to the size it is now on what Fergie was doing on the training pitch

the manager is the single most important person at any Football club
until you get that right you are heading nowhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 09:42:36 AM
Good reading that article.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 22, 2018, 09:42:47 AM
Sunday Times article regarding takeover:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/billionaires-ride-in-to-rescue-aston-villa-l2fdpkvk6
Sort of headline that must be music to the ears of fans of our neighbours. Any chance you could cut and paste the whole article please?

Here you go, pal.

Billionaires ride in to rescue Aston Villa
Investors raise promotion hopes after buying 55 per cent stake in the club

Ian Whittell
July 22 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

England’s World Cup defeat by Croatia 11 days ago may have resulted in national disappointment, but for Aston Villa supporters it could prove to have been one of the most pivotal events in the club’s history, given what was unfolding in an Idaho hotel room as the semi-final took place.

Sequestered there while attending the annual Sun Valley “moguls” conference were billionaire friends Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. By the end of the evening and despite the anti-climax of seeing the team they were supporting lose, the pair had hatched a plan to buy Villa.

Nine days later, the pair had each bought 27.5% of the Championship club from Tony Xia, for a controlling interest in a venture he had mortgaged to the hilt in a gamble to win promotion, only for the team to fall short in the playoff final against Fulham in May.

Given the Midlands club’s current debt, the pair were able to wrestle the 55% controlling interest for £30m although if the new owners are to fulfil the ambition of Xia, they are looking at bankrolling manager Steve Bruce with a considerably larger sum.

“They obviously have deep pockets,” said a source close to the deal. “They spoke about ‘the upper echelons of English football’ so they are not going into this to stay in the Championship.

“They are genuine football fans. Nassef, in particular, is a pretty private guy for a man of his wealth. He is not doing this because he is a brash guy who wants to splash the cash. He’s doing it primarily for his love of the game and that applies to both of them.”

If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride. Within three days of the Croatia game, Sawiris, a London-based Egyptian businessman worth an estimated £5.2bn, and Edens had relocated to the Hilton on Edgware Road for meetings. By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised.

The purchase marks the fulfilment of the billionaires’ long-standing interest in the sport. Edens, a co-owner in NBA team the Milwaukee Bucks, had attended every World Cup since USA 1994 until this summer and spoke to the former England captain David Beckham about becoming involved in his Miami MLS franchise, while Sawiris’ array of business interests includes a board position at Adidas.

The pair would not be the first successful businessmen to flounder in football — as Xia will testify after a summer in which playoff defeat was followed by an unpaid £4m tax bill and concerns about Villa’s inability to meet the Football League’s financial fair play regulations concerning “profitability and sustainability”.

The situation led to an acceptance that any saleable assets — particularly the creative midfielder Jack Grealish, aged 22 — would be liable to being sold and drove Xia to look for fresh investment.

The crisis also created uncertainty over the status of veteran manager Bruce and he, as well as the club’s immediate financial obligations and transfer policy, will be widely examined by the new owners when they convene with Xia at Villa Park, possibly as early as tomorrow. Villa open the Championship season with a tricky trip to Hull City on Monday, August 6.

Short-term, sources talk of “stabilising” the club’s finances while the duo are bullish about the need to find a way to not only bring in new blood but also keep players such as Grealish.

Longer-term, they have spoken of investing heavily in youth development and competing for honours, while Villa fans can expect a more “traditional” approach from the reserved Sawiris. Xia’s eccentric social media antics could be a thing of the past.

Indeed, whether Xia has a long-term role remains to be seen. With Sawiris “executive chairman” and Edens “co-chairman,” Xia remains on the board, for now, with his minority interest.

There is, therefore, a large element of the unknown facing Villa but, if the success Edens has enjoyed in running the Bucks over the past four years is anything to go by, the signs are good. Not only has the basketball team’s value nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars but the club recently re-signed star player Giannis Antetokounmpo to a four-year, £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week. Bruce and Villa fans dare only dream of such a future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 22, 2018, 09:43:51 AM
Sorry duplicate paste from the Times.

I particularly liked this bit:

"If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride."
 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 22, 2018, 10:40:25 AM
Has anyone seen if their shoes are any good?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on July 22, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
Nerd a
The new owners are already identified by the letters NSWE.  As you walk up Trinity Road look up at the spire of Holy Trinity church.  A cock of the walk on the very top surmounting the letters NSWE.

It has to be an omen.

Praise be: it's a sign!

ps I hope you'll be out & about today collecting shoes, Brian. You KNOW it makes sense. ;)
Lets hope it's not all in vane :) ( I know the spelling is different but a pun is a pun!)

Good work, Sir. I can see this thread is now heading in the right direction.  8)
Honestly, some of you just go whichever way the wind is blowing

If the bells are ringing we can aspire to greater things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 10:50:21 AM
Cheers Axl.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 10:51:59 AM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Zouch Villa on July 22, 2018, 10:57:49 AM
So we now have three extremely wealthy individuals and supposedly successful businessman on the board.  If we can navigate our way through the FFP landmines then surely we can’t fuck this up again.  Could we?

That Sunday Times article makes a very pleasing read after the turmultous couple of months we’ve just had.  I just hope Sawiris and Eden use their business and sporting nous to weed out the rot that is inevitably rooted itself at the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
Has anyone seen if their shoes are any good?

Jeffery Wests or they can GTFO.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdward on July 22, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
That Times article is an interesting read, but is there any official communication from this NSWE group spelling out what they will do with Villa, or us it all just guesswork at this point.
I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach, but after the last few weeks and years, I find it hard to get excited about new owners until they show  their  true colors.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: nodge on July 22, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.

Check his twitter account
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 22, 2018, 11:45:01 AM
That Times article is an interesting read, but is there any official communication from this NSWE group spelling out what they will do with Villa, or us it all just guesswork at this point.
I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach, but after the last few weeks and years, I find it hard to get excited about new owners until they show  their  true colors.


If they were making big detailed statements two days after buying into the club it would make me nervous.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 11:45:46 AM
Edens has just given his star basketball player a new four year £75 million/£366,000 a week contract. I bet our Jack's eyes lit up when he read that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
Our last two owners have to a large extent bought into, the get the club to the top quick schemes, and have been very reliant on the Manager for their football advice. When you think of the no marks we have had here, since pube head did one, it is not very surprising we found ourselves where we are at the moment.
Lerner to start with and Xia seemed to think keep in contact with the supporters, Krulak and Dr No on twitter, it will be fine, but still only telling us what they want to hear, i.e. Dr No and Wyness plan B.
I hope our new owners set the framework up correctly and if I do not see either off them on Twitter, twatter or whatever, that will be fine with me. Any required statements come out of the Media side of Villa park, not some sodomite and emoji crap we have had to put up with and only inform us when it requires us to know.

I agree but you can have the best framework and Football structures in the world but the whole thing lives or dies depending on who the manager is

Man Utd are the biggest footballing global brand but it was only built to the size it is now on what Fergie was doing on the training pitch

the manager is the single most important person at any Football club
until you get that right you are heading nowhere


I am speaking from hindsight and also being a hypocrite as I was underwhelmed when we appointed Houllier and stayed underwhelmed throughout his time at the club and was happy when he left. But if we thought it had started going wrong when MON left then when McLeish replaced Houllier was when it really went tits up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 22, 2018, 11:59:27 AM
So, do they each own 27.5% ie through their separate companies as I'm inferring from that article or do they own a business together, NSWE, which now owns 55% of the Villa and, crucially, a controlling amount?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 12:11:38 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.

That sounds like something my parish council would put out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2018, 12:14:42 PM
I would like to know Howard Hodgson’s take on this after all he obviously facilitated it.

Aboard the good ship lollipop.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: simboy on July 22, 2018, 12:34:04 PM
From what I have read about Edens and the Milwaukee Bucks he seems to have invested wisely, supporting and improving the club. I haven’t read about much (if any) fan decent ... remember Lerner and the Cleveland Browns - cautiously optimistic about all this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 22, 2018, 12:37:35 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 22, 2018, 12:39:46 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2018, 12:44:46 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 12:50:01 PM
And me.  That Malcolm Allison is rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 12:56:14 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

I wouldn't want to copy a club that sacked Ron Saunders and replaced him with Tony Book. Although I am grateful that they did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 01:04:39 PM
A club that nicked Joe Mercer and named the road to their stadium after him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Small Rodent on July 22, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 22, 2018, 01:14:36 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

And me.

I know we will not get it, but who would say no to a bottomless pit of money taking you from Shaun Goater to Aguero in a few years?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 01:19:46 PM

I’m not saying I want a Man City type of approach,

I am.

And me.

I know we will not get it, but who would say no to a bottomless pit of money taking you from Shaun Goater to Aguero in a few years?

Indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 22, 2018, 01:20:06 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.


In my mind I an conjuring up images of a rather quaintly old fashioned gentlemen's agreement scribbled out and signed on a beer mat.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2018, 01:23:20 PM
". By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised."

Sopwell Lane in St Albans has some of the best real ale pubs on the planet.

This is a good sign.

Lovely hotel, used to stay there a lot, it’s also next to Veralum Golf Club, the home of The Ryder Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
It is indeed.  Scored my last try against Old Verulamians.  Celebrated at Sopwell House.  Still have the hangover.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2018, 02:07:45 PM
We tried the Man. City approach in 2016 didn't we?

I know it's always exciting spending big money and signing players particularly strikers but whole club needs to be scrutinised from top to bottom imo.

We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: spartacuss on July 22, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
Anagrammatically speaking, let's hope Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens investment:  'finesses wads (of) weariness' and displaces the: 'fears, seesaws & windiness' that have been blowing around VP of late.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 22, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.


It sounds like that's the approach they will take, which I agree with too. We have a tradition of having a good youth system and bringing young players through but if we can get that right, we really would be self-sustaining. Losing Jack is painful but I don't think it would be as much if we knew there was another one waiting to come through to replace him, who we knew about and were excited by.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on July 22, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
Re Edens, I’m trying to get to grips with the idea of someone who has owned a sports team and made it better not dramatically worse. Witchcraft I tell you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 22, 2018, 02:42:53 PM
We don't need to lose Jack! Money isn't an issue now. We should tell Spurs to do one and see where things stand come January. The ironic thing is, our owners are wealthier than Spurs!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on July 22, 2018, 02:52:05 PM
Re: Jack. Surely he's got to be thinking another season out of the PL is another year out of the England setup? He may want to go himself and who could blame him?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
Re Edens, I’m trying to get to grips with the idea of someone who has owned a sports team and made it better not dramatically worse. Witchcraft I tell you.

give it time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2018, 03:00:44 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 22, 2018, 03:09:37 PM
You mean the daily mail story wth no quotes whatsoever?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2018, 03:10:42 PM
Or truth?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 22, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football

From the same source that Bruce lost matches on purpose?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2018, 03:19:58 PM
Well if he does who could blame him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 22, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
stories circulating that Jack wants to leave for CL football

From the same source that Bruce lost matches on purpose?

That made me chuckle.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 22, 2018, 04:00:00 PM
Why? All I was doing - again - is passing something on. I haven't a clue where the rumour originated from . Once the sneering has died down is it really impossible that the lad might have had his head turned and was indeed now set on playing for a side that could offer him a game against Real Madrid rather than Rotherham?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 04:46:23 PM
Just seen a video on a villa Facebook page, think the new owner is at villa park.
Three white Rolls, two lambos and various range rovers parked outside The Doug stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 04:47:36 PM
I can’t see how to do a link. Pretty impressive motorcade!

It’s on Aston Villa: Holte end worldwide page.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 04:56:03 PM
It's an Asian wedding. That's all
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 04:59:28 PM
Just seen a video on a villa Facebook page, think the new owner is at villa park.
Three white Rolls, two lambos and various range rovers parked outside The Doug stand.

Wedding

 Edit (oooh see Holy Trinity already said that )
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 22, 2018, 05:00:28 PM
Ah bollocks!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on July 22, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
It's an Asian wedding. That's all

That'll be a shock to Dr Tony when he rocks up in an Uber.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
How much is an uber from Peckham to villa park for our very own del boy?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 22, 2018, 06:28:42 PM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 22, 2018, 06:34:44 PM
There’s a good article in the Times today apparently about how this deal came together and some of the plans of our new owners. If someone has a subscription maybe they can post it. Here’s the Twitter link.

https://twitter.com/ste_healy/status/1020966894046674944?s=12

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 06:50:38 PM
Page 14 TV if your set up is 15 per page.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 22, 2018, 06:53:05 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on July 22, 2018, 06:55:12 PM
Sounds really positive.  We have people are actually good at turning sports clubs around.  I hope this week sees a few things sorted and we get back to buying players.  I am more optimistic with these two in charge than I was with Randy Lerner.   Bruce will be desperate to convince these two that he is the man to take the club forward as he'll be like a kid in a sweet shop if we ever go up!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 22, 2018, 07:05:02 PM
We tried the Man. City approach in 2016 didn't we?

I know it's always exciting spending big money and signing players particularly strikers but whole club needs to be scrutinised from top to bottom imo.

We need to be better at promoting young players into first team, we need to be better at scouting exciting players in youth team and also abroad as we'll need both as/when we're a premier league club again.
Mind watching Football Italia in the mid 90s, I guess around the time we signed Savo. Udinese at the time we're spending £2m-£3m a season on scouting, a huge amount really. They'd got scouts watching obscure lower league matches in Ecuador and whatnot. Their theory was that since they sold a player for £6m+ every couple of seasons, plus let a few drop down to Serie B sides for a few hundred thousand each, they were easily covering costs and had a top 8 side most seasons that they'd picked up the whole first team for less money than Lazio spent per player.

Thought at the time - and still - that it makes more sense spendimg say £12million/year on the best  scouts, data analysts and youth coaches money can buy, hoovering up the most talented 16-19 year old kids we can find, bringing them through slowly, then at 21/22 either flog them to a team at an appropriate level or play them in the first team - no hoarding, they're either played or moved on so the next batch get their chance. It's a long game and would mean 5-10 years of probably not the best first team, but we're probably in a situation right now where the club could stand the change better thanat any time in the past few years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2018, 07:22:20 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
This for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andrew08 on July 22, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
We still command a great deal of respect in the football world due to our tradition. If we were seen to come back from the brink by building a progressive young team and not resorting to big money, I think we would win a great deal of support from football supporters in general who are fed up with money ruining the game.
This for me.

And me with the caveat that we a) play a decent style of footy and b) treat the domestic cups with respect and play our best team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 22, 2018, 08:33:27 PM
As much as I admire the sentiment of slowly building a team and and ethos built on development and sustainability, it is completely unrealistic in the modern game.

Look at the teams that win anything and look how they do it. It is all based on money and having the best players.
Yes I know we can quote Leicester City but that was a complete one off, flukes happen.

I’m sorry, but give me wining stuff in 3 or 5 years time with money being invested rather than playing slowly, slowly catchy monkey.

Once you start winning stuff if it self perpetuating anyway and the financial rewards come with winning.

For me, 3 massive decisions  to be made this week.

1. Do the new owners stick with Bruce.
2. Do the new owners have a plan for the Grealish situation, either way.
3. Who is going to be the new CEO. This is a critical appointment.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 22, 2018, 08:35:14 PM
If the new owners want to turn the spirit and feelings around the club back in the right direction, with one decisive move, they should find a way to keep Grealish and, to a lesser extent, Chester.

That would be an amazing message to the fans and lift spirits enormously.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 22, 2018, 08:37:50 PM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 22, 2018, 09:03:48 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

Again can only be good news as was worrying about a Hicks-Gillett style stand off a while down the line. Could still happen I guess but at least they know how each other operates in business.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 22, 2018, 09:22:19 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

They obviously have advisors, I'd love to know who was the 'football man' they used to send them in the direction of Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 22, 2018, 09:23:56 PM
Didn't realise Nas and Wes were good friends.

I just assumed Xia or whoever was tasked with finding new investors had found them and asked if they wanted to invest in the club together.

They obviously have advisors, I'd love to know who was the 'football man' they used to send them in the direction of Villa Park.

HH obvs
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 22, 2018, 09:29:31 PM
From the AVST:

Quote
Members and supporters will no doubt be delighted to hear of the 55% investment made by Messrs Sawiris and Edens. This appears to have resolved the short-term funding issue faced by our football club.

Whilst it is acknowledged that the last two weeks must have been difficult for senior people at the club, it is disappointing that they did not respond to our request for a meeting.

Accordingly, we have repeated that request and are hopeful that on this occasion we will be able to effect a meeting to discuss the way forward. It is encouraging that in the Press Release it was stated that the owners are stewards of Aston Villa Football Club on behalf of the fans.

The new investment does not mean that there is a licence to spend money (FFP restricts that) but there must be a desire to have a period of stability and financial prudence under wise and experienced leadership. We will press for that.

That sounds like something my parish council would put out.

Shouldn't have gone on holiday.......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on July 22, 2018, 09:46:18 PM
They are getting a bit embarrassing.  Demand a meeting, yes, that will solve things!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 22, 2018, 10:21:47 PM
From our new friends at the Meaning Evil...

How Aston Villa's new sugar daddies did the deal - the latest details to emerge

Shane Ireland takes a closer look at how Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens hatched a rapid plan to take a controlling stake in Aston Villa

The speed at which Aston Villa’s takeover went through on Friday has taken sections of the claret and blue faithful by surprise.

It transpires that Villa had been putting the feelers out for fresh investment even before the play-off final defeat at Wembley on May 26 exposed their bleak finances.

But details are starting to emerge about how rapidly Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens sprung into action to come to the rescue of the cash-strapped Championship club.

HOW MUCH HAVE THEY PAID AND FOR WHAT SHARE?

Sawiris and Edens have each bought a 27.5 per cent stake in Villa, taking their combined total to what is a controlling stake of 55 per cent.

To buy those shares, the pair parted with £30m.

Xia bought Villa from Randy Lender for £76m two years ago.

The club's website has now been update to include the new buyers' titles, with Sawiris having become the executive chairman and Wes Edens a co-chairman.

The other co-chairman remains Xia.

Xia said: “I am extremely pleased to have formed a strategic partnership with Nassef and Wes. We have a common goal of delivering future success for Aston Villa and I look forward to working together to achieve this aim.

“To have come so close to achieving promotion last season was a humbling experience. In finding such strong partners as Nassef and Wes we’re gearing up to fight again and bring back the success that this club deserves and we all so want to provide it with.

“The future is exciting on a number of fronts and I look forward to exploring further business collaborations.”


HOW DID THEIR INVESTMENT COME ABOUT?

During England's World Cup defeat to Croatia 11 days ago.

While Gareth Southgate's Three Lions were contesting their semi final in Russia, Sawiris and Edens were hatching a plan to save Villa, according to the Times.

They watched the match together in a hotel room in Idaho during the Sun Valley conference - an event which brings together millionaires and billionaires from across the globe.

And just nine days later they had sealed a controlling stake in Villa.

After the conference, Sawiris and Edens relocated to the Hilton hotel on Edgware Road in London to fine-tune their plan of action.

They then held meetings with Xia at Sopwell House in St Albans and quickly reached an agreement.

On Friday, the deal was announced.

Read More


HOW MUCH ARE THEY WORTH?

The Sawiris family are the most famous and richest family in Egypt having made an incredible fortune over the years.

Forbes estimated the family’s combined net worth at $36bn (£27bn) which highlights their financial muscle.

Nassef is said to have a personal wealth of around £5.2bn, making him the richest Egyptian in the world.

Edens is a co-owner of the Milwaukee Bucks, a National Basketball Association (NBA) franchise based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, along with Marc Lasry.

Forbes estimates his personal fortune stands at around $2bn

DO THEY HAVE ANY PREVIOUS FOOTBALL EXPERIENCE?

Both men are football lovers, especially Edens who, before this summer's tournament had attended every World Cup since USA 1994.

He also spoke to David Beckham this summer about becoming involved in the former Manchester United and England star's MLS franchise in Miami, the Times reports.

Regarding wider sporting interests, in 2014 Edens and Marc Lasry purchased the Bucks from Herb Kohl for $550 million, promising to keep the team in Wisconsin and build a new arena to replace the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

And he's enjoyed great success in that venture - the value of the team has nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars since he took charge.

They were also in a position to recently re-sign their star player Giannis Antetokounmpo on a bumper £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week.

Sawiris' ventures include a board position at sportswear giants adidas, while his brother Samih owns part of Swiss football club FC Luzern.

He purchased a 12.5 per cent stake in the top-flight team in 2011.


HOW HAVE THEY MADE THEIR MONEY?

As mentioned above, he has a stake in adidas and cement giant Lafarge Holcim, but it’s his company OCI - one of the world’s largest nitrogen fertilizer producers - that brings in the real money.

Nassef is ranked at No.251 in the world’s rich list.

A co-founder of Fortress Investment Group, Edens began his career in 1987 at Lehman Brothers, where he was a partner and managing director until 1993.

He then went to BlackRock's private equity division BlackRock Asset Investors, where he remained until 1997 as a partner and managing director.

Edens was one of five principal partners who founded Fortress Investments in 1998.

He also owns the League of Legends team FlyQuest.



Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: berneboy on July 22, 2018, 10:33:35 PM
There’s a good article in the Times today apparently about how this deal came together and some of the plans of our new owners. If someone has a subscription maybe they can post it. Here’s the Twitter link.

https://twitter.com/ste_healy/status/1020966894046674944?s=12




FOOTBALL
Billionaires ride in to rescue Aston Villa
Investors raise promotion hopes after buying 55 per cent stake in the club

Ian Whittell
July 22 2018, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Prize asset: Aston Villa hope to hold on to Jack G
England’s World Cup defeat by Croatia 11 days ago may have resulted in national disappointment, but for Aston Villa supporters it could prove to have been one of the most pivotal events in the club’s history, given what was unfolding in an Idaho hotel room as the semi-final took place.

Sequestered there while attending the annual Sun Valley “moguls” conference were billionaire friends Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens. By the end of the evening and despite the anti-climax of seeing the team they were supporting lose, the pair had hatched a plan to buy Villa.

Nine days later, the pair had each bought 27.5% of the Championship club from Tony Xia, for a controlling interest in a venture he had mortgaged to the hilt in a gamble to win promotion, only for the team to fall short in the playoff final against Fulham in May.

Given the Midlands club’s current debt, the pair were able to wrestle the 55% controlling interest for £30m although if the new owners are to fulfil the ambition of Xia, they are looking at bankrolling manager Steve Bruce with a considerably larger sum.

“They obviously have deep pockets,” said a source close to the deal. “They spoke about ‘the upper echelons of English football’ so they are not going into this to stay in the Championship.


“They are genuine football fans. Nassef, in particular, is a pretty private guy for a man of his wealth. He is not doing this because he is a brash guy who wants to splash the cash. He’s doing it primarily for his love of the game and that applies to both of them.”

If the speed and efficient nature of their takeover is anything to go by, Villa supporters could be in for a spectacular ride. Within three days of the Croatia game, Sawiris, a London-based Egyptian businessman worth an estimated £5.2bn, and Edens had relocated to the Hilton on Edgware Road for meetings. By last Monday, talks with Xia concluded at Sopwell House in St Albans, where a deal was finalised.

The purchase marks the fulfilment of the billionaires’ long-standing interest in the sport. Edens, a co-owner in NBA team the Milwaukee Bucks, had attended every World Cup since USA 1994 until this summer and spoke to the former England captain David Beckham about becoming involved in his Miami MLS franchise, while Sawiris’ array of business interests includes a board position at Adidas.

The pair would not be the first successful businessmen to flounder in football — as Xia will testify after a summer in which playoff defeat was followed by an unpaid £4m tax bill and concerns about Villa’s inability to meet the Football League’s financial fair play regulations concerning “profitability and sustainability”.

The situation led to an acceptance that any saleable assets — particularly the creative midfielder Jack Grealish, aged 22 — would be liable to being sold and drove Xia to look for fresh investment.

The crisis also created uncertainty over the status of veteran manager Bruce and he, as well as the club’s immediate financial obligations and transfer policy, will be widely examined by the new owners when they convene with Xia at Villa Park, possibly as early as tomorrow. Villa open the Championship season with a tricky trip to Hull City on Monday, August 6.

Short-term, sources talk of “stabilising” the club’s finances while the duo are bullish about the need to find a way to not only bring in new blood but also keep players such as Grealish.

Longer-term, they have spoken of investing heavily in youth development and competing for honours, while Villa fans can expect a more “traditional” approach from the reserved Sawiris. Xia’s eccentric social media antics could be a thing of the past.

Indeed, whether Xia has a long-term role remains to be seen. With Sawiris “executive chairman” and Edens “co-chairman,” Xia remains on the board, for now, with his minority interest.

There is, therefore, a large element of the unknown facing Villa but, if the success Edens has enjoyed in running the Bucks over the past four years is anything to go by, the signs are good. Not only has the basketball team’s value nearly doubled to just over a billion dollars but the club recently re-signed star player Giannis Antetokounmpo to a four-year, £76.1m contract worth £366,000 a week. Bruce and Villa fans dare only dream of such a future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 22, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
I've been away for a few days and come back to this... so administration/massive points docking are presumably not going to happen, but how does it affect FFP? Can we now spend money on the squad or are we still unable to ad to the squad because of the wages we pay Micah etc in relation to our turnover? Sadly, I can see us still losing Jack, because he's going to want to play at a higher level than the Championship. If he stays, he must truly want to be a Villa hero.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on July 22, 2018, 11:23:42 PM
John Percy saying that Jack 'wants to go', so he can play in the champs league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 22, 2018, 11:38:00 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 22, 2018, 11:42:05 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?

Poxey probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 22, 2018, 11:46:40 PM
So who's right, Percy or Moxey?

Poxey probably.

Have Mercy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Most cabbies need protection money to go to Bartley Green that’s why it’s £60.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Holy Trinity on July 23, 2018, 12:56:02 AM
Uber from the Elephant to VP is £240 via the M11/M6 so via the bandit country of Peckham £260-70?

That's actually cheaper than I thought. Yet Birmingham airport to bartley green was quoted to me at 60 quid!
Most cabbies need protection money to go to Bartley Green that’s why it’s £60.

Come on! It's not as bad as Northfield haha
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 01:49:40 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:45:44 AM
They are getting a bit embarrassing.  Demand a meeting, yes, that will solve things!!

Without talking what are you going to achieve though? Our members have had a bee in their bonnet about the changes to the away scheme that we want to try to sort out. For a month they ignored our calls, emails and statements to have a meeting to sort things like that out. In fact, they didn't even know who we should talk to about it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:47:26 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.

Whisper it but I reckon this lot will be alright.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 23, 2018, 06:49:55 AM
wouldn't that be something - owners who can actually manage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 06:57:25 AM
Not going to lie. Those articles gave me movement in my loins. Thanks Berneboy for expanding on that link for me. They both have immense and verified wealth and haven’t bought us to arse around in the Championship. I reckon Bruce could be toast next week, and if not next week soon after the season starts if we are not off to a hot start.

We need ruthless owners who want to win. The Man City approach being discussed earlier is what we need, a mix of smart people being brought in to run us like a proper business. Right people in the required roles; a defined strategy with well thought through tactics.

Whisper it but I reckon this lot will be alright.

Bruce is going nowhere mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 23, 2018, 06:58:39 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:10:37 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: martin o`who?? on July 23, 2018, 07:29:36 AM
False dawn Number37.........
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:35:57 AM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 23, 2018, 07:40:10 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.

Not a Scooby. On detailed plans anyway. They want us to be self sufficient but cleverer on maximising our commercial opportunities. The kids should be the heartbeat of that is very much the view though.

The Yank is genuinely agog at the potential to develop your own players (and from across the world) and has been itching to get involved with sorting an Academy model that does just that, for a long time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 08:13:35 AM
And owners who can tell the difference between a good decision and a bad one.

They want to run it as a business with a bit of speculate to accumulate in the event of promotion (whilst using their contacts to give us the best chance of going up). I can live with that.

Do you know their thoughts on infrastructure and/or the youth system Chelts? I believe that kind of spending is exempt from FFP.

Not a Scooby. On detailed plans anyway. They want us to be self sufficient but cleverer on maximising our commercial opportunities. The kids should be the heartbeat of that is very much the view though.

The Yank is genuinely agog at the potential to develop your own players (and from across the world) and has been itching to get involved with sorting an Academy model that does just that, for a long time.

Cheers.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on July 23, 2018, 08:23:45 AM
From what I've been reading about Sawiris and Edens, they and Bruce don't seem like a match. Losing a manager so close to the season's kickoff is not ideal as we found out to our cost with that prat MON. I want Bruce gone but I can see the new owners starting the new season with him to minimise disruption. 6 games is all I'd give him and if he starts slowly again I would expect our new owners to do what Xia should have done last season and bin him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:06:07 AM
How would getting rid of him 6 games in be less disruptive than getting rid of him now?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 10:18:54 AM
I wouldn't get rid of him. There's no point. If we were to have, the time would have been just before 7pm on 26th May.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: tomd2103 on July 23, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
From what I've been reading about Sawiris and Edens, they and Bruce don't seem like a match. Losing a manager so close to the season's kickoff is not ideal as we found out to our cost with that prat MON. I want Bruce gone but I can see the new owners starting the new season with him to minimise disruption. 6 games is all I'd give him and if he starts slowly again I would expect our new owners to do what Xia should have done last season and bin him.

Depends on their plans and the timeframe they have in mind I suppose.  If they see promotion as a realistic target for the coming season, then I can see the logic in keeping Bruce in place and seeing how he does.  If there is a longer term plan in place for promotion and this season is viewed as an opportunity to start putting things in place, then I suppose it could be argued that it wouldn't matter too much if Bruce went now really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mike on July 23, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
I always think it's unfair to give a manager a few games then sack him, but in this case, we won't be ready for the season if we sack him now, so I would let him start the season and then boot him out at a time to suit us unless he makes himself unsackable. Edit - Presuming we can afford to without falling foul of FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 23, 2018, 11:02:15 AM
How would getting rid of him 6 games in be less disruptive than getting rid of him now?!

It would be as disruptive but it would give them around 2 months to assess the right appointment. With the season start being so close, the availability  issue is probably the same. You would like to think that money will talk in being able to get the right manager during the season. The most important thing is to get the right manager that fits with the plan, however long it takes. They should be assessing it from now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 23, 2018, 11:13:08 AM
I think we should stick with Bruce for now with time so short to the big kick-off. A terrible close season after Wembley. Xia just about saved the club in time with the new investors. The guy is a gambler. If they change Manager, Dean Smith would be a better choice than Thierry Henry. At least he knows this league.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cumbriavilla on July 23, 2018, 11:58:53 AM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.

For Xia - I think its more of a case of still being part of the gamble - but he'll have to share the resulting PL riches with others.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 23, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
two's company, three is a crowd
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 23, 2018, 12:59:12 PM
I’m somewhat sceptical of their Football pedigree despite being “fans”, I know for a fact many of us would struggle hugely running the Villa if ever given the chance, so quite how they’ll do will be interesting. With the departures of Wyness/Round we desperately need a football administrator of pedigree as CEO and a forward looking DoF. Is Dan Ashworth still leaving the FA?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: darren woolley on July 23, 2018, 01:01:41 PM
two's company, three is a crowd

Three In a Bed which I think the french say Menage a Trois.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 01:01:52 PM
There was something on talk shite about a land revaluation (we've got quite an extensive portfolio) which could help ease FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: saunders_heroes on July 23, 2018, 01:20:18 PM
He reckons the FFP problems were a red herring and the real concern was Xia’s lack of cash.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 23, 2018, 01:31:26 PM
As much as I am as happy as a dog with several appendages that we are no longer looking over the precipice of debt etc anyone else still a little nervous of the new money coming in?

At least I suppose that after the secrecy surrounding Xia from the off in regard to money and history you can clearly see who these guys are and how they go there.

Have everything crossed that this is 3rd time lucky for us
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2018, 01:44:17 PM
I wouldn't bet against that. I thought all along that the FFP side was being overplayed.  I still think there's a shortfall of a decent amount but the £40-50m figure never worked for me.  I had it as closer to £30m all along and with all the leavers and the sales we've made I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the current picture is something more like £20m to be made up.  Even if the numbers were right I'd make the shortfall now to be a lot less than some are still suggesting.

If we can get £4-5m for the stadium naming, similar again for some obscure sponsorship deals and then sell a few fringe players (Lansbury, BB, Gardner?) I think that might be enough to not really worry about it any more for a few months.  Good team performances, improved commercials and a decent run in the League Cup could all help nudge things in the right direction.

None of this gives us the funds to sign anyone, and we do need a couple of players, so we're far from out of the woods but I don't think we should be worrying massively over FFP right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 23, 2018, 01:44:48 PM
Yes, me too, but compared to where we were last week
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: in exile on July 23, 2018, 02:16:22 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
Talksport earlier

https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1021373436243955712?s=12
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nelly on July 23, 2018, 02:55:00 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 23, 2018, 03:10:20 PM
He reckons the FFP problems were a red herring and the real concern was Xia’s lack of cash.
The FFP situation is real, how bad?  we can not tell but the biggest and most immediate problem ( lack of cash) has been solved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 03:13:12 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?

7.17 Hall Green.  Ballyregan Bob, Xia’s Million’s and Fair Play Financial all running in the same race.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 23, 2018, 03:15:55 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Where's it running and what time?

7.17 Hall Green.  Ballyregan Bob, Xia’s Million’s and Fair Play Financial all running in the same race.
There or there abouts will be.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 03:16:20 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 03:21:27 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 23, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. What must the Bluenoses and Baggies be thinking? They must have been loving life for a few weeks and just when things look really serious and that the administrators might be called in, a couple of billionaires with great credentials come along and save us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on July 23, 2018, 03:28:12 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 03:28:50 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 23, 2018, 03:46:33 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!

I'm guessing Man City have the richest owners, so who are in second place?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 03:49:24 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 23, 2018, 03:50:59 PM
I’m somewhat sceptical of their Football pedigree despite being “fans”, I know for a fact many of us would struggle hugely running the Villa if ever given the chance, so quite how they’ll do will be interesting. With the departures of Wyness/Round we desperately need a football administrator of pedigree as CEO and a forward looking DoF. Is Dan Ashworth still leaving the FA?

If he is I would do what it takes , he is top drawer. Then get him to poach his former colleague Mark Harrison from the Boggies and there's our academy sorted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 23, 2018, 03:58:03 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aev on July 23, 2018, 03:58:48 PM
"They've now got the third richest owners in English football".

That definitely lifts spirits. And I'll lift a spirit to that! Up the Villa!


I'm guessing Man City have the richest owners, so who are in second place?

Putin, sorry I mean Abramovich?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 23, 2018, 04:02:32 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term.

I was making the same point yesterday. Assuming of course we get promoted in the next season or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
So how’s that long sleep going?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 23, 2018, 04:09:58 PM
Imagine selling a stake in the firm that you founded and picking up a mere £400m.

I don’t get out of bed for less than half a billion.
So how’s that long sleep going?

He's posting from the afterlife.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bren'd on July 23, 2018, 04:11:39 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc

Was thinking the same thing myself.  And, have also thought had we not sold to Lerner in 2006 we could be where Man City are now and they where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 23, 2018, 04:45:59 PM
Good read, this https://www.wsj.com/articles/wesley-edens-is-an-investor-with-an-affinity-for-the-underdog-1532111122
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 23, 2018, 04:48:10 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 05:09:33 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!

And a few private dwellings as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 23, 2018, 05:34:54 PM
Been away for a week-can someone bring me up to date or point to the page I need to go to? Ta.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 23, 2018, 05:48:06 PM
OK-I found it. Another couple of billionaires-meh! So tedious I think I will become a Bluenose so that I can rely on my daily gloom being sustainable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 05:55:46 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2018, 06:03:52 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2018, 06:15:34 PM
This wouldn't have happened had we been promoted so missing out could actually turn out to have been a good thing long-term. 


a good point

UTV
The Doc

Was thinking the same thing myself.  And, have also thought had we not sold to Lerner in 2006 we could be where Man City are now and they where we are.
And if only that fucker Bruce had not scored those two fergie time goals😥
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: murfee on July 23, 2018, 06:28:14 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Herein lies the truth. Its seems that Dr T was hiding behind ffp.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 23, 2018, 06:35:29 PM
False dawn Number37.........

Who knows? I do know Xia could have sold us off entirely for a few quid in his pocket but didn't because he wanted to work with people to take the club forwards. I take that as a positive.


Are you saying he turned down an offer that would repay his costs in full plus some spare cash?  I don't see how that's possible....

I would think it far more likely that Xia needed to retain some equity in the hope of it gaining value to repay the debt to whoever funded his gamble.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on July 23, 2018, 06:41:07 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.

If anyone wants to go over it again the assumptions/calculations were on the Swissramble twitter posts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2018, 06:47:33 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 
Herein lies the truth. Its seems that Dr T was hiding behind ffp.

He didn't lie about it, he said it was something we needed to deal with and that we'd need to do things differently going forward. What he didn't do was pass comment on the £40m figure that was being bandied about so the number just got accepted as definitive but it all seems to have come from 1 blog post.  I think not addressing that was almost certainly done to avoid tough questions though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 23, 2018, 06:47:58 PM
Good read, this https://www.wsj.com/articles/wesley-edens-is-an-investor-with-an-affinity-for-the-underdog-1532111122


Can anyone copy and paste the article by any chance?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on July 23, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Apparently, we now have the third richest owners in all English Football. Staggering wealth Sawiris and Edens have....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2018, 06:58:17 PM
It all feels too good to be true... who are the two richest then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 23, 2018, 06:59:30 PM
It all feels too good to be true... who are the two richest then?

Man City & Putin.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 23, 2018, 07:03:23 PM
Esteemed company then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:26:49 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:41:41 PM
We now own Villa Park, a Manor House, a farm, loads of land and a semi-detached outright.

Presumably this will stem some losses and once the revaluation has taken place, charge free, we can dispose of some it for profit? Keep Villa Park obviously. And the farm for McCormack and Micah.

But with an injection to clear the mortgages, we solve some of the loss making (a small amount I would imagine), re-value to decrease significant losses and dispose of some for profit.

Why wasn't this considered before, unless FFP was convenient mask for an absence of working capital?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 07:47:43 PM
Profitability was the word.

If your house doubled in value overnight you wouldn't make any profit until you sell it, you would however be in a more financially stable position without selling.


Edit. Oh you've deleted your post now. Wish I'd quoted.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 07:51:10 PM
Me? Ive just added to it bud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on July 23, 2018, 07:52:46 PM
Nah not you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 07:52:54 PM
Someone else made a post and then deleted it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 23, 2018, 07:56:24 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 07:57:34 PM
We see everything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on July 23, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
We see everything.

Oh bugger!!  I'd better pout my pants back on then!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:16:59 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

It seems (according to Matt Scott) that it's exclusion from FFP took place under Premier League FFP where our permitted losses were £105m. We'd have, with its inclusion, lost £109m so would have been unlikely to be sanctioned. This gives us scope to revalue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 23, 2018, 08:30:16 PM
I'm very confused.

Can someone advise which of the following is true, please?

(a) we are still in the shit because of FFP and have to sell off Grealish and probably others just to avoid punishment. Signing players is a virtual impossibility.

(b) we still provably need to sell Grealish but, so long as we don't get completely ripped off on the price, we are basically fine.

(c) we don't even need to sell anyone, all our worries are over, we can sign who we like, Bono is dead, the sleeves are going to be dyed blue and they're making a new series of The Thick Of It. Everything is great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on July 23, 2018, 08:37:12 PM
I'm very confused.

Can someone advise which of the following is true, please?

(a) we are still in the shit because of FFP and have to sell off Grealish and probably others just to avoid punishment. Signing players is a virtual impossibility.

(b) we still provably need to sell Grealish but, so long as we don't get completely ripped off on the price, we are basically fine.

(c) we don't even need to sell anyone, all our worries are over, we can sign who we like, Bono is dead, the sleeves are going to be dyed blue and they're making a new series of The Thick Of It. Everything is great.

Sorry , I don’t know but I really really hope it’s c.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2018, 08:38:44 PM
Paying off the mortgages is obviously good news but maybe does add some validity to what the guy from etorro was saying on talk sport today.

Basically we took a hit financially when we got relegated by devaluing our land and properties etc. He reckoned we could re appraise those values at a higher market value. Thus increasing our profitability and sustainability which is the EFL's version of what everyone is calling FFP.

Wouldn't be too much of a surprise to find the press etc had sensationalized our impending doom a bit. 

The £40 million hole in FFP figure continues to be quoted by all and sundry without much basis.

If anyone wants to go over it again the assumptions/calculations were on the Swissramble twitter posts.

Noooooooooooooooo!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Matt Collins on July 23, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

It seems (according to Matt Scott) that it's exclusion from FFP took place under Premier League FFP where our permitted losses were £105m. We'd have, with its inclusion, lost £109m so would have been unlikely to be sanctioned. This gives us scope to revalue.

He seems to have revised his opinion
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
He does haha!

Seems that the exclusion rule is automatically included.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 23, 2018, 08:46:14 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)
Not sure if I’m understanding these right, but it seems there was a mortgage against Villa Park?!

Yeh looks like it. Blimey interesting reading all that....lots of premises with mortgages, maybe players or clients temporary premises ? Anyway, lots of cash paid off today om about 20 outstanding loans.....promising start
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 08:59:01 PM
We've owned a house in Great Barr since the 1930s. A farmhouse in Warwickshire (Randy's gaff?), mortgage on B6 since the 1950s. Quite a lot on the portfolio.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 09:18:04 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

It’s Dougs modest three bed link detached that we rent to him for £1 a year.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
So then we know we own loads of property.  Are we saying as they are now mortgage free we can revalue them on the fixed asset line of the balance sheet and reduce losses? I thought they would show their true valuation anyway?  Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 10:19:23 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:41:36 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 23, 2018, 10:47:39 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

Michael Neville ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 23, 2018, 10:51:56 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?



I have a property in my company that I rent out.  When I discuss its value every year my accountant  asks me has the value increased or not ?  To a certain degree I get the impression I can up it if I choose to ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2018, 10:53:38 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

I remember seeing that interview he gave outside his house in Dorridge. My main feeling was one of sinking realisation that he lived in the sort of house my parents could realistically afford.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 10:57:27 PM
Wasn't one of the reasons we lost so much, final PL season I think, to do with property values or am I imagining that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 10:59:14 PM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?



I have a property in my company that I rent out.  When I discuss its value every year my accountant  asks me has the value increased or not ?  To a certain degree I get the impression I can up it if I choose to ?


Fair Value has to be a realistic market value.  So investment property valuation is usually undertaken by a professional firm of surveyors for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 11:00:45 PM
Wasn't one of the reasons we lost so much, final PL season I think, to do with property values or am I imagining that?

No, there was a big impairment review as the value of an asset is also based on its ability to generate a profit, so dropping a division played a big part in that. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 23, 2018, 11:07:12 PM
I've just had a look at the Villa thread on that lot.com (easily the biggest thread on there, as you'd expect).

Jesus Christ, what a bunch of drooling morons.

Quote
Glad you've finally admitted it. But just to give it a bit more context, I'd argue that Leeds United are every bit as big as vile yet they didn't get this level of spawniness thoughout their last 15 years of struggle. If you're going by history, then both Sheffield clubs are arguably on a par too, yet they've endured decades of being shat on, including dropping into the third tier more than once. So to suggest that a "bigger club than Blues" can't be expected to drop neck deep into the brown stuff is simply not true, as demonstrated by that trio of Yorkshire clubs. You might add Sunderland to that list too. So it really wasn't the stuff of fantasy to hope vile would go the same way, but then of course they predictably found a way out of it before any of the fun could truly begin. Spawny bastards, as usual.

And that's nothing like the most witless post there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2018, 11:13:13 PM
Yes, we've been so fucking lucky these last few years.  The unbelievably spawny 8-0 defeat against Chelsea, the against-all-the-odds pure fortune relegation, the brilliant luck to sign the likes of Richards and McCormack, and most recently the fantastically undserved luck in the Play Off final.  Bunch of six fingered slum dwelling twats.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 11:13:40 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LukeJames on July 23, 2018, 11:21:44 PM
I haven't had a clue what to make of whats gone on with us over the past couple of months or how the new owners and FFP will affect us etc, i'll head over to SHA later to get a better understanding of it all.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 23, 2018, 11:28:59 PM
Their obsession with us doesn't bother me, it's kind of flattering in a 'having an obsessed stalker' kind of way. What I find bizarre is the amount of utter garbage they make up and try and peddle. And it's that so many of them are so fucking thick that they believe it. And even the few that are bright enough to know it's bollocks still peddle it such is their desperation to put one 'ova da Vile'. Such a sad and weird bunch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 11:35:31 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

I remember seeing that interview he gave outside his house in Dorridge. My main feeling was one of sinking realisation that he lived in the sort of house my parents could realistically afford.

It really was massively depressing as he stood outside and spoke to the media. Just thinking exactly that my mum’s place in Stockland Green was almost as big.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 23, 2018, 11:36:26 PM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

No that’s the bloke who was going to buy us from Doug. He’s moved out from his ma’s gaff in Harborne to his own place in Great Barr.

Michael Neville ?

Aye...that’s him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Now do the Dingles, Noses and Stripeys combined...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:00:01 AM
I see we've already paid off the mortgages we took out on the land...

How do you know that ?

Companies House (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00046572/charges)

Why do we own a semi-detached house in Great Barr? Still, we own it out right now.

Home for some youth team players perhaps?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 12:01:58 AM
Since 1936?! You're probably right!

Maybe an old players house from back in days of yore. Bobby Robson lived in Handsworth when he played for the Bitters, so there may have been a few players out them parts.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:05:44 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 24, 2018, 12:06:59 AM
Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Others 4

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Others 9

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Others 5

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Others 0

Atari Soccer Six
Aston Villa 0 Others 1

Once beat Honved in a friendly
Aston Villa 0 Others 1
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 24, 2018, 12:08:30 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 12:10:42 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 24, 2018, 12:18:04 AM
You missed a few.

Names:
Aston Villa 1 Small Heath/Alliance/Birmingham/City 4

Moral victories in a second city derby:
Aston Villa 0 Birmingham City 82

Trophies stolen:
Aston Villa 2 Others Chance would be a fine thing

Most supporters taken to an away game:
Domestic - Aston Villa 25,000 (Highbury, 1981) Birmingham City 20,000 (Villa Park, 1897-2018, all of them in the Holte End)
Europe - Aston Villa 15,000 (Rotterdam, 1982) Birmingham City The calculator broke (Bruges, 2011)

Biggest gate played in front of:
Aston Villa 121,919 (FA Cup final 1913) Birmingham City 145,000 (Leyland Daf final, 1994)





Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lsvilla on July 24, 2018, 12:25:06 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
That’s genius - well done to whoever came up with that one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 24, 2018, 02:07:15 AM
Apparently the property at Middleton Hall may have been Sir Willie Dugdales - dont know if true
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 24, 2018, 05:50:50 AM
I thought I'd been quick enough!! ;)

Under normal circumstances upwards revaluations don't create an income statement impact, but if it's a reversal of a previous downward revaluation then it might. I'm not close enough to the FFP regs to know if that's an allowable profit though.

The property is all contained within "Investment Property" and is recorded at Fair Value.  Any increases or decreases in value would hit the P&L.  The Fair Value in 2016 was £36.8m.  There was then impairment of £2.6m, taking the  fair value down to £34.2m at 31 May 17.  Unless there's been a dramatic change in something in 2018, I can't see why there'd suddenly be a huge upward shift in value?

Agreed.

But the the revaluation being referred to by Smoke was reversing some of the impairment of PPE we took on relegation.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on July 24, 2018, 07:21:20 AM
You missed a few.

Names:
Aston Villa 1 Small Heath/Alliance/Birmingham/City 4

Moral victories in a second city derby:
Aston Villa 0 Birmingham City 82

Trophies stolen:
Aston Villa 2 Others Chance would be a fine thing

Most supporters taken to an away game:
Domestic - Aston Villa 25,000 (Highbury, 1981) Birmingham City 20,000 (Villa Park, 1897-2018, all of them in the Holte End)
Europe - Aston Villa 15,000 (Rotterdam, 1982) Birmingham City The calculator broke (Bruges, 2011)

Biggest gate played in front of:
Aston Villa 121,919 (FA Cup final 1913) Birmingham City 145,000 (Leyland Daf final, 1994)

Superb work.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SashasGrandad on July 24, 2018, 08:17:11 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.
That’s genius - well done to whoever came up with that one.

The Alexander Stadium will not be used for football after the Commonwealth Games - it will be a specialist Athletics stadium - there are special agreements with the host club (Birchfield Harriers) that prohibit a change of use - a bit like the Villa Trust have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 24, 2018, 08:20:14 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.

Not quite as good as the loon who said Harlie Dean is better than James Chester.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 24, 2018, 08:46:53 AM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0
South Yorks Old Bill have held the European Cup longer than either of the Sheffield clubs. ;D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8711000/8711259.stm
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 10:49:10 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 24, 2018, 11:10:24 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

they are probably bigger in the making of quality knives and forks though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on July 24, 2018, 11:50:05 AM
Small Heath Alliance is a pretty funny read

We have paid off the mortgage on B6 so we can move to the Commonwealth Games stadium.

They're a special bunch.

Not quite as good as the loon who said Harlie Dean is better than James Chester.

apologies for my idiocy Clampy, but who the hell is Harlie Dean ?

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 24, 2018, 11:51:45 AM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

they are probably bigger in the making of quality knives and forks though

It still makes me laugh from 1991 Sheff U away bus to the ground from the station “ you can stick your stainless steel up your arse”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Maybe then it wasn't but now will be. Or it's just an asset on the books.

As for comparing Sheffield clubs to Villa, they haven't had the success but they certainly have history and lots of it. There's even an app out there. 'Sheffield, Home of Football' I think it's called. It's a 4.7mile guide to historical football points in the city. And a good pub crawl...

No one in their right mind would deny the Sheffield clubs are good clubs, but saying they are bigger than us is just plain daft.

Oh god there's no way on Earth they are bigger than us. Just good clubs, good support and good history. They shouldn't be put down in the way our illustrious neighbours should.

I'm planning to do the tour but with a couple of slight route alterations to pick up some pubs...

The following is taken from this page. (https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/homeoffootball)

"Between 1857 and 1889 Sheffield had 95 football clubs and the app explores locations associated with these early clubs and the development of the modern game. While visiting ten stops over the 4.7 mile walk you will be introduced to the places and people that made Sheffield the home of Association football.

The app includes audio commentaries, so you can listen as you walk or simply sit and enjoy in your armchair from anywhere in the world.

As you reach key points along the walk content in the app will be triggered automatically. You can also follow your location on an 1855 map, giving you a sense of what Sheffield was like at that time."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 24, 2018, 12:18:45 PM
A very dangerous walk in 1855 I would have thought. i went to college in Sheffield and it was very dodgy 125 years later
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 24, 2018, 12:18:45 PM
Apparently the property at Middleton Hall may have been Sir Willie Dugdales - dont know if true

It was owned by the Peel family who were big around Tamworth and were instrumental in forming the London Met Police force. It’s was most recently owned by Tarmac along with the quarry behind it and I believe, it transferred to the RSPB when they filled in the lakes and turned it into a wildlife sanctuary. I don’t remember reading or hearing anything about the Dugdales having an interest. I think they were more over toward Nuneaton where they owned Daw Mill colliery and a lot of the rest of the county.

As an aside the works next to it to move the Villa training pitches are coming along at a cracking pace.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 24, 2018, 01:09:21 PM
Sir William owned Merevale Hall near Atherstone and was born near Coleshill . That's how David Cameron became a Villa fan, or so the story goes. As a boy he visited the Hall quite regularly, I think through some family connection.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Laughing Policeman on July 24, 2018, 01:20:58 PM
Isn't Cameron Sir Bills nephew?
Feel sorry for Bill having a flat faced tw*t like Cameron for a nephew.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 24, 2018, 01:27:31 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Imagine how different these figures would be if you did Birmingham clubs combined v Sheffield club combined?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MoetVillan on July 24, 2018, 01:43:49 PM
Of course they are. They really are simpletons.

Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 5

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Sheffield clubs combined 7

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Sheffield clubs combined 1

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Sheffield clubs combined 0

Imagine how different these figures would be if you did Birmingham clubs combined v Sheffield club combined?


I can’t imagine anyone being more thrilled than being combined with another Sheffield club than a Wednesday or S United fan respectively. Haven’t Leeds won more than Sheffield anyway? So not even most successful town in their county?!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 01:44:19 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 24, 2018, 01:48:40 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 24, 2018, 02:55:31 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 03:29:06 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.

And an Auto Windscreen Trophy and Leyland DAF Cup.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2018, 03:32:44 PM
Though Sheffield would have a Community Shield and a Sheriff of London Charity Shield....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on July 24, 2018, 03:36:04 PM
There'd be one extra novelty ashtray in out combined trophy cabinet courtesy of Barca.

The only change would be 7-5 to us in League Cups.

That was the joke to be fair!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 24, 2018, 04:39:42 PM
As was mine.

We played Barca and we put the Super Cup in our trophy cabinet. They played them and put an ashtray in theirs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 24, 2018, 05:32:55 PM
As was mine.

We played Barca and we put the Super Cup in our trophy cabinet. They played them and put an ashtray in theirs.

Yep, a runners-up ash tray.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: b23 on July 24, 2018, 06:12:12 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: MoetVillan on July 24, 2018, 06:28:36 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 24, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 24, 2018, 07:28:40 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?

And Birmingham is not in Warwickshire. Go tell it to the Marines. And the members of Warwickshire CCC, many of whom are on this board, and would take a dim view of such  a proposition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: b23 on July 24, 2018, 07:44:35 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I did do a double take

Sheffield is South Yorkshire and Leeds is West Yorkshire is it not?


http://www.yorkshireridings.org/news/yorkshire-map.html

This map shows that Leeds and Sheffield are both in the West Riding.

It's all Yorkshire to me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 24, 2018, 07:50:02 PM
They're not in the same county but, in any case, Wednesday have won one more major honour than Leeds, eight-seven. Sheffield United have won five.

From a proud Yorkshire man, i can assure you that Leeds and Sheffield are still both in the same County.

I was technically correct, you have to concede. I do use the term "Yorkshire" myself so understand what you mean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 24, 2018, 08:07:22 PM
Champions of England
Aston Villa 7 Others 4

FA Cup wins
Aston Villa 7 Others 9

League Cup wins
Aston Villa 5 Others 5

European Cup wins
Aston Villa 1 Others 0

Atari Soccer Six
Aston Villa 0 Others 1

Once beat Honved in a friendly
Aston Villa 0 Others 1


To be fair Small Heath have won as many doubles as we have. Although ours was the traditional double of First Division title and FA Cup and their's was the Third Division title and Auto Windscreens shield.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 25, 2018, 01:17:49 PM
Well, they are at Villa Park now.

I hope they love what they see.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2018, 01:20:27 PM
Well, they are at Villa Park now.

I hope they love what they see.

Apart from the North Stand, which they should demolish and replace, everything else is beautiful.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 25, 2018, 01:44:27 PM
Could you imagine buying it and THEN going to actually see it - what a wonderful experience that would be - now imagine the owners of the  Dog shit doing the same thing  ;D ;D

Interestingly Simon Jordan today on TS said that he knew of several ways that we could skirt around any FFP issues and that anyone with our new owners business acumen they would have had all this sussed before they even discussed the price

lets hope so
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Towser on July 25, 2018, 01:46:58 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 25, 2018, 01:57:20 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 02:05:48 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped

I think that proves Xia will be bought out in the coming months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Duncan Shaw on July 25, 2018, 02:09:50 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 02:11:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di8xe4gW0AAk1JP.jpg)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 25, 2018, 02:18:37 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

well hey ho that's football
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 02:20:40 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

well hey ho that's football

That's the championship Companies House!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 02:24:04 PM
Interesting that Sawiris is listed on Companies House as Belgian

And that Ho and Gu have been unceremoniously dumped
Feel a bit sorry for Ho to be honest, he was massivley over promoted and lived the dream as a fan, and probably did a fair bit to keep the lights on over the last few weeks.

He Ho.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Olneythelonely on July 25, 2018, 02:25:03 PM
They look like guys about the give someone a right good sacking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Confusious says on July 25, 2018, 02:56:55 PM
They do look like they mean business & can sack someone, Ho has
already got the Heave Ho!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 25, 2018, 03:03:10 PM
They look like two blokes in suits. One has a very big nose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 03:06:07 PM
They look like two blokes in suits. One has a very big nose.

It's not me!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 25, 2018, 03:07:55 PM
Edens has a "retired 80s / 90s footballer on soccer saturday" look about him in that photo.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on July 25, 2018, 03:10:17 PM
Edens has a "retired 80s / 90s footballer on soccer saturday" look about him in that photo.

The other one could be Mr Bean.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VillaAlways on July 25, 2018, 03:47:39 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/villareport/status/1022130228439801857
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Olneythelonely on July 25, 2018, 03:51:32 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/villareport/status/1022130228439801857

Some sexy gate action there. If you like your gates, like I do.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on July 25, 2018, 03:55:19 PM
Had he gone around to the front to get the keys?

It looks like they were all standing around waiting for someone to let them in.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 25, 2018, 04:00:16 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 25, 2018, 04:05:04 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???

Oh shit. How about the shoes?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 25, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
With all their money what an awful suit  ???

From the back I am pretty sure the guy in the silver grey suit is Swiss Toni from The Fast Show.

"Buying a football club is like making love to a beautiful woman".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Herman on July 25, 2018, 04:48:23 PM
Looks like that chap has been to Brum before, in around 1981 when he bought that suit from Nelson House. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 04:55:00 PM
Suits plus two for £100
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 25, 2018, 04:56:27 PM
Looks like that chap has been to Brum before, in around 1981 when he bought that suit from Nelson House. 

2 for £99.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 25, 2018, 04:57:58 PM
They are off to Pagoda Park tonight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 25, 2018, 05:09:36 PM
Looks like Rodney Marsh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brackley on July 25, 2018, 05:13:27 PM
The bloke needs a style guru and a good haircut.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 25, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
The bloke needs a style guru and a good haircut.

Nah....he just needs  a good football manager.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 25, 2018, 05:26:36 PM
Looks like a Doug Stanhope suit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Randy Gurner on July 25, 2018, 05:36:50 PM
Ciro Citterio
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Nev on July 25, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
Sergio Georgini
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 25, 2018, 05:44:29 PM
Ciro Citterio

Didn't John Gregory sign him ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 25, 2018, 05:50:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di8xe4gW0AAk1JP.jpg)


Is that Obama on the left? - Edens is obviously well connected.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Godfrey Brian on July 25, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
Nelson Road- backdrop to history.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 25, 2018, 06:14:54 PM
You beat me too it GB.  Nelson Road's place in the Villa Pantheon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on July 25, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
Seems the term 'majority owners' will be seen a lot now. He Ho and Tracy Gu removed from the board, his eyes and ears over here, means I think that he basically will sell his remaining stake on promotion for a pre-agreed amount. I dont think we will hear much, if anything from Dr Tone now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Moose on July 25, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
And Grealish? FFP?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 25, 2018, 07:09:57 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 25, 2018, 07:51:04 PM
It's a tricky one to gauge re their decision-making on this. If the opportunity to invest happened quickly, perhaps they thought that the due diligence required before making choices on manager would necessitate more time. And I can imagine they also thought "Let's meet with the incumbent manager, and see what he has to say" which surely is only respectful and right. Fortunately for Bruce, his soft skills are one of his assets so I can imagine him giving a good account of himself. If they're happy for us to have a stable season without worrying about a promotion challenge, he will have been able to sail through the meeting. If they said they expected the team to be challenging, a bit of waffle from Bruce may have saved him.
Henry would have been a big experiment for both parties, I don't think he's done enough to deserve to manage us. So, as much as Bruce's football frustrates me, I can understand his staying on and I just hope he hits on gold; accidentially or otherwise through promoting youth - one of his hitherto key failings and sourcing good loans from his book of contacts - one of his key strengths.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 25, 2018, 08:15:40 PM
Is Nas playing with his chequebook in that interview ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 25, 2018, 08:41:36 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 25, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 25, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.

He's also the last person you'd want to be around if you were on acid.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on July 26, 2018, 01:35:07 AM
Edens= Rodney Marsh on acid :')

Please don't mention that one-eyed, deaf c**t on here please, I'd forgotten about him until that.  Marsh that is.

He's also the last person you'd want to be around if you were on acid.

I am sorry to say, from personal experience,  that there are plenty of worse people to be around than laughing cockney wide boy Wodney when undergoing a bum trip, man. Many of them were at the University of Warwick circa 1976 in the year of Our Lord.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 26, 2018, 07:06:44 AM
far out, man. The first newsroom I worked in was like that all the time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 26, 2018, 08:35:16 AM
Still no Edens registration in companies house
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 26, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
With a name like Edens Bruce must have been worried about being put on gardening leave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on July 27, 2018, 02:02:58 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 27, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
I think that character was based on Peter Grant, Led Zeppelin's manager
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 27, 2018, 02:09:39 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.

Before Edens was part of a takeover our future looked black. How much more black could it have looked? The answer is none. None more black.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 27, 2018, 04:07:12 PM
 Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldtimernow on July 27, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
We should rename Villa Park, Fortress Villa Park and Wes could write a cheque  to cover it ergo FFP sorted
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2018, 05:47:55 PM
Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.

Got a link? Not much on Bloomberg.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
We should rename Villa Park, Fortress Villa Park and Wes could write a cheque  to cover it ergo FFP sorted

He’s sold Fortress hasn’t he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 27, 2018, 06:02:27 PM
Sawiris mentioned his investment in a company called Bruins Sports Capital in his interview.
Well worth having a read about them.

I can’t believe we’ve got these two guys behind us.

Got a link? Not much on Bloomberg.

https://bruinsportscapital.com/about/

More about the guy who runs it on YouTube. He was largely responsible for NASCAR'S success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2018, 06:12:18 PM
Just struck me that Edens looks like Spinal Tap’s erstwhile manager, Ian Faith.

Before Edens was part of a takeover our future looked black. How much more black could it have looked? The answer is none. None more black.
Our black goes up to 11.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 28, 2018, 11:37:19 PM
Moxley - Mirror.

Jack Grealish transfer: Blow for bargain-hunting Tottenham as Aston Villa's new owners BLOCK summer exit

EXCLUSIVE: Gamble on driving down financially-stricken club's asking price fails after billionaire completes swift takeover

22:30, 28 JUL 2018Updated22:54, 28 JUL 2018
Spurs' dithering over Jack Grealish’s £20million transfer from Aston Villa has backfired.

Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy has come a cropper after his waiting game for the former England Under-21 international midfielder has blown up in his face.

Levy gambled on driving down the sale price due to Villa’s financial woes — only for a staggering five-day sale of the Championship club late last week to turn the process on its head. And now those new owners have blocked Grealish’s exit.

Egyptian billionaire Nassef Sawaris and American Wes Edens have a combined wealth of £40billion, making them the third richest owners in English football.

They immediately pumped in cash to prevent Villa from falling into administration — and now they’ve told Grealish he’s going nowhere.


Grealish is now set to stay at Villa and help their latest promotion push (Image: PA Wire)
That will come as a major blow to Spurs, who had put in plenty of groundwork convincing the playmaker that his future lay at the new White Hart Lane.

A Villa source said: “Spurs could have pushed the button on this two weeks ago before the takeover. They didn’t. And now the owners have said that neither he, nor James Chester is going anywhere.

“They want to build Villa. That’s not going to happen by selling the club’s best players.”

Manager Steve Bruce was given the news at a meeting with his new bosses earlier this week.

Bruce has also had his own position confirmed amid a financial landscape that has changed dramatically within just one week.

Levy’s gamble was understandable.


A Villa source claims Levy could have done a £20m deal for Grealish a fortnight ago (Image: Getty)
Unless the takeover had taken place, Villa may well have hit a financial brick wall this week.

They has been asking £15m plus add-ons for Grealish, taking the total deal over £20m. Levy bet on them slipping deeper into trouble — and instead the opposite happened.

The odds were, however, in Spurs’ favour as Villa were staring down a barrel. Money was owed to West Brom in the form of the final £2m instalment on Wales defender Chester’s 2016 transfer, and a £4m payroll run plus cash for revenue and customs over a tax bill – also believed to be £4m – would have pushed them over the edge.

But, after an army of solicitors worked flat-out around the clock over a five-day period, the purchase of the club was pushed through in double-quick time, saving Villa — and preventing them from having to cash in on Grealish, their most valuable asset.


Villa's problems have seen a string of players leave, now Bruce needs backing to bring some in (Image: PA)
It remains to be seen how far the new owners will now back their manager as Financial Fair Play is still understood to be an issue.

Bruce has already lost six loan players since the end of the last campaign, including the likes of Robert Snodgrass and Lewis Grabban, while John Terry left as his one-year contract had expired and the club could not afford a new deal.

With the new campaign starting next weekend and the transfer window closing in less than two weeks, the Geordie needs help if he is to mount a sustainable promotion push and return Villa to the big-time this season after losing May's play-off final to Fulham.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 28, 2018, 11:41:30 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2018, 11:53:48 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.

Just a bit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 28, 2018, 11:59:42 PM
If master negotiator Levy has blown it I think I may find it a tad amusing.

Just a bit.

Maybe just a smidgen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 29, 2018, 12:13:11 AM
The big worry has to be Levy showing Jack all the trophies Spurs have won the last few years. Could turn Jack's head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 12:52:54 AM
As Ads said, that Levy bloke is a genius.

Reminds me of a direct marketing genius in the States, that tested a mailing list and got a fantastic response to sending out goldfish in a bag through the post. They rolled out a major campaign of millions but forgot about the timing - people were not impressed receiving a block of ice with a goldfish inside.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 01:02:08 AM
When did I say that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 29, 2018, 01:02:10 AM
I just love us being referred to as having the 3rd richest owners in football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2018, 06:57:18 AM
It will sound better next year back in the prem
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
QPR got a £17m fine. Maybe no fucks are given.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 29, 2018, 08:19:53 AM
Great to see Villa finally not flogging our best players.  And doubly great that it's Spurs who have been told to go away.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on July 29, 2018, 08:37:16 AM
We should bid £15m for Kane, Erikson & Lloris.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bren'd on July 29, 2018, 08:38:18 AM
We should follow it up with bids for Kane, Trippier and Eriksen. Could go for Ponchettino while we’re at it.

Edit: Martin Carothers beat me to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2018, 09:17:24 AM
cheeky £500,000 bid for Onomah ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 09:18:15 AM
Christ no.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rigadon on July 29, 2018, 09:33:41 AM
Only if they're paying
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 29, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
cheeky £500,000 bid for Onomah ?
only if the spuds are paying us the £500k -just noticed Rigadon beat me to it :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2018, 10:30:51 AM
I maintain Onomah did well on the occasions he played in his actual position. Look back to the first half of the season, he had some really good games and some key contributions. He did suffer when moved out of his position, but he’s a young player not a bad player.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on July 29, 2018, 10:46:48 AM
Moxley says "Villa's problems have seen a string of players leave".
Not exactly an exodus of leavers other than Terry and the loanees?

Bizarre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 29, 2018, 11:04:39 AM
The addition of the word ‘loan’ would have helped that piece...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mrfuse on July 29, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
Isint that what normally happens at the end of loan deals.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Martin Carruthers on July 29, 2018, 12:28:41 PM
Gabby as well, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 12:48:57 PM
Even though Aston Villa now have 3 "billionaire" owners, I really cannot get excited about the fact.

There are no guarantees about anything in football. My worry is if they set out a plan, whether it's CL football in 5 yrs, or just to be surviving as an also-ran in the PL in 3 yrs I'm concerned that if we don't achieve the goal these people will lose interest and things will go to rack and ruin again, especially when in the everyday man's terms they probably paid (cost vs wealth) a couple of microwave ovens to buy in. Remember we got relegated under the watch of a "billionaire custodian", one whose name was sung loud and proud by many Villa fans in 2006. It doesn't matter who is in charge of the club or how rich they are. If they lose interest, if they take their eye off things, things will go downhill.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 29, 2018, 01:35:48 PM
That's the spirit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 01:38:38 PM
My main concern is that we are going to win so many trophies, people will start to think that I'm a glory-hunter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 01:38:41 PM
It mostly doesn’t matter because of FFP.  It’s going to be difficult this season, doubly so next year when the parachute payments run out completely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 01:39:15 PM
That's the spirit.
Thank you.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 01:45:11 PM
It mostly doesn’t matter because of FFP.  It’s going to be difficult this season, doubly so next year when the parachute payments run out completely.
I see FFP as a tool to keep the elite as elite (the Real Madrids, Bayerns, Juves of this world.

It's also a convenient excuse for club owners to hide behind when they can't or don't want to pay for ambition. Bournemouth were recently fined £4.75m for their activities while in the Championship three years ago (less than 1/20th of their TV/prize money for next season). QPR were hit with a £40m fine, but with the option to pay in instalments over the next ten years, I understand.

Over to the Dr and his new investors...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 01:46:43 PM
The UEFA FFP is a tool to keep the elite on top. The Football League FFP is to stop teams going bust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Iamkmkm on July 29, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
My main concern is that we are going to win so many trophies, people will start to think that I'm a glory-hunter.

The worst thing that could happen would be if we turned into a new man united, imagine villa park full of prawn sandwich eating glory hunters.
Horrible thought.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 29, 2018, 01:54:32 PM
Even though Aston Villa now have 3 "billionaire" owners, I really cannot get excited about the fact.

There are no guarantees about anything in football. My worry is if they set out a plan, whether it's CL football in 5 yrs, or just to be surviving as an also-ran in the PL in 3 yrs I'm concerned that if we don't achieve the goal these people will lose interest and things will go to rack and ruin again, especially when in the everyday man's terms they probably paid (cost vs wealth) a couple of microwave ovens to buy in. Remember we got relegated under the watch of a "billionaire custodian", one whose name was sung loud and proud by many Villa fans in 2006. It doesn't matter who is in charge of the club or how rich they are. If they lose interest, if they take their eye off things, things will go downhill.

That is why we have to get our house in order financially and keep it that way. If we do, there will be buyers of the right kind out there. We have to lose the mentality of the owners being another group that we can use up their wealth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
QPR had a £17m fine.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 29, 2018, 02:36:38 PM
Alan Nixon is saying again that the ffp rules allow for new owners but he doesn’t know it fully!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 04:21:29 PM
QPR had a £17m fine.
Was it £17m? I thought I'd read £40m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 04:23:00 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 04:25:30 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 04:27:26 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.

Is the latter something that we could do, or was that specific to the QPR case?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on July 29, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.

It's also taken 4 years to resolve through the courts. QPR will pay the £17m over 10 years.

Whilst I don't doubt FFP is an issue, was it being used as a excuse by Dr X to cover his cashflow problems?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on July 29, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
£17m? That's less than taking a hit on McCormack and Hogan.

It's also taken 4 years to resolve through the courts. QPR will pay the £17m over 10 years.

That being the case, in theory we could spend what we want and get promoted and pay the consequences of a fine later. Compared to the riches of being in the PL, it's peanuts. Timing has not been on our side this summer but I'd imagine the new owners won't want to be wasting too many seasons in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 29, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Problem being that when QPR broke the rules a fine and transfer embargo were the only punishments, i'd prefer us not to be a test case for the new rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2018, 04:47:58 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.

Is the latter something that we could do, or was that specific to the QPR case?

No idea to be honest.  The rules allow each club owner to inject something like £8m in new equity each year to cover losses, so I would think the £23m was probably in excess of the allowed amount?

Anyway, I think the point is that the EFL have recently said that the punishments will be more severe.  They've got the potential to deduct points, so do we want to test their resolve?  There's absolutely no point in having the rules if clubs can simply spend what they like and then pay a fine, when the fine pales into insignificance compared to the potential upside of a year back in the Premier League.  I've said it before, but say we finished 7th and missed out on 6th to a team who had breached FFP by £50m, we'd be severely pissed off and would want the league to apply some tough sanctions.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Harte on July 29, 2018, 04:49:32 PM
£17m was the fine.  The other £23m was loans that they were forced to turn into shares instead.
Ah, ok. That explains it then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 04:50:47 PM
Did Xia invest anything? If not, could the new owners invest £24 million, £8 million for each accounting season we've been down here, or can you not backdate things like that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 29, 2018, 08:26:54 PM
The UEFA FFP is a tool to keep the elite on top. The Football League FFP is to stop teams going bust.

Any tool which limits spending to an amount linked to revenue is designed to maintain the status quo. The EFL rules are no different.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL. If you're better than the other teams you get promoted out of it. The EFL rules were not designed with Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus in mind because they never have to play in it.

The thought process behind it is entirely different to the cartel-thinking of UEFA's regulations.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2018, 08:31:11 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: jwarry on July 29, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
This is interesting even if a year old

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk

Can the great and the good make any sense of it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 29, 2018, 08:43:03 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL. If you're better than the other teams you get promoted out of it. The EFL rules were not designed with Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus in mind because they never have to play in it.

The thought process behind it is entirely different to the cartel-thinking of UEFA's regulations.

Clubs can get promoted but a revenue-based system is still designed to ensure the "big" clubs stay at the top and the small clubs stay at the bottom.

If the EFL were serious about stopping clubs going bust they'd introduce a fixed spend cap like plenty of other sports.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2018, 08:53:11 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: preston28 on July 29, 2018, 08:56:10 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.

Whatever you want......
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SashasGrandad on July 29, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
There is no status quo in the EFL.

Thank god for that.

Whatever you want......

As long as Small Heath Go Down Down deeper etc.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Cleybrooke on July 30, 2018, 11:50:54 AM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 30, 2018, 11:53:12 AM
This is interesting even if a year old

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk

Can the great and the good make any sense of it?
This is interesting viewpoint:
“Moving from an assessment over one season to an assessment over three seasons has presented some challenges. Interestingly, rather than introduce the changes on a staggered basis, the Football League has introduced the change in one go. The contentious issue here is that for some clubs, a historic ‘rogue’ season which the club had put behind them, suddenly becomes part of the assessment criteria. Where this has happened and where a transfer ban has previously been imposed and subsequently lifted (eg Fulham, Forest, Cardiff), it seems unlikely that the Football League would apply a further punishment if the projections for the current season show the club is currently operating within the £13m maximum loss figure.”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 30, 2018, 11:53:43 AM
Bit of information on transfer embargoes:

This was from Dec 2014 though so if punishments are harsher now.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30478833

In addition:

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis, in line with existing regulations.

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.

    Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player's wage, or a contribution towards it.

    For incoming players, clubs can only pay agents' fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question, as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 30, 2018, 11:56:26 AM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2018, 11:58:56 AM
It's the initials of the two blokes names...?

Unless my sarcasm detector is way out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on July 30, 2018, 12:01:09 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.

It's not handicapping us. Tone gambled on getting promoted and fucked it up. That's what's now handicapping us 

Had we followed the rules from the off we'd still be able to spend much more than the rest of the division because our underlying revenue is so much greater.

It favours the big clubs in exactly the same way FFP does in the Prem. The only difference is the TV money makes the gap between the haves and have nots so much greater in the Prem so the order is much more established and you're less likely to get shocks.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 30, 2018, 12:12:51 PM
The big clubs in the EFL don't stay at the top, they get promoted, as a rule. We are the biggest club in the EFL and the rule seems to be handicapping us so your argument doesn't add up.

If we were talking about a FFP rule in the Premier League, I'd agree with you.

The EFL FFP rule is to stop teams going bust.

It's not handicapping us. Tone gambled on getting promoted and fucked it up. That's what's now handicapping us 

Had we followed the rules from the off we'd still be able to spend much more than the rest of the division because our underlying revenue is so much greater.

It favours the big clubs in exactly the same way FFP does in the Prem. The only difference is the TV money makes the gap between the haves and have nots so much greater in the Prem so the order is much more established and you're less likely to get shocks.

The reason it was introduced in the Football League was to reduce the number of clubs that were going into administration due to spending way beyond their means, and in that sense it's worked.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2018, 12:13:33 PM
From what I can make out it's a company they created specifically to do the deal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Gerrin on July 30, 2018, 12:25:52 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Keeno on July 30, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villan from luton on July 30, 2018, 12:29:41 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

That's a bit disappointing as I had read we were the third richest behind Man City and Chelsea!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 30, 2018, 12:33:10 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2018, 01:46:47 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?

Not really.  He's probably got reasons (eg tax) for not wanting to be a director of a UK company.  The other chap is based in London isn't he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SirSteveUK on July 30, 2018, 02:13:23 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.
Not sure where your figures come from, tbf
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: footyskillz on July 30, 2018, 02:20:38 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉

Amassed wealth and assets of football owners it's like this

Manchester city
Chelsea
Villa
Arsenal
Stoke
Wolves
Spurs
Leicester
Man utd
Southampton
WBA
Newcastle
Liverpool

As villa have co owners wealth has been added together
As you can see wealth owners doesn't mean as much as think in some respects if clubs don't or can't spend or owners don't pay out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Cleybrooke on July 30, 2018, 02:30:02 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.

Not sure where your figures come from, tbf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39108015
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43088167
https://www.waste of paper.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/key-findings-aston-villas-latest-14293992


Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 30, 2018, 03:00:40 PM


Can anyone find any info about NSWE ?

What exactly are they and what is the companies value ?

Still seems wierd that Wes Edens still not appeared as director in companies house info ?

Not really.  He's probably got reasons (eg tax) for not wanting to be a director of a UK company.  The other chap is based in London isn't he?
Not sure where based but Nassef said he was overseeing the day to day running of the club. Not sure what responsibilities are different from his title of chief executive chairman to that of a ceo or is it just a technicality ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2018, 03:17:06 PM
Just because Edens has part ownership doesn't mean that he has to be a director, does it ?

Anyway, the other bloke's appointment was only filed at Co House last Wednesday
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

It's all about appendix D....

2014/15 *(last year of the prem) is when we made a big loss - but the club put £79.6m of the £81m loss down to "exceptional items" including the "impairment of tangible fixed assets and intangible assets". This what Appenix D covers.

So as I understand it, we can lose £61m over the last 3 years

14/15 = £1.4m (assuming Appendix D application is correct)
15/16 = £14.5m (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)
16/17 = £7.5m  (- a bit for Youth, Charity and Ladies football)

Call it £23m. Which gives us a big bag of head room....

Those aren’t the last three years though, are they? Provisional accounts have been lodged with EFL for 2017/18 - as they have to be - by Mar 1.

Not sure where your figures come from, tbf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39108015
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43088167
https://www.waste of paper.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/key-findings-aston-villas-latest-14293992




That last link just shows the position for one of the subsid companies and not the overall consolidated loss.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on July 30, 2018, 03:39:18 PM
Someone told me yesterday they'd read an article saying we're the 4th richest club in the country now, I can't find said article though.

3rd actually 😉

Amassed wealth and assets of football owners it's like this

Manchester city
Chelsea
Villa
Arsenal
Stoke
Wolves
Spurs
Leicester
Man utd
Southampton
WBA
Newcastle
Liverpool

As villa have co owners wealth has been added together
As you can see wealth owners doesn't mean as much as think in some respects if clubs don't or can't spend or owners don't pay out.

Yes, and I think the table above can be taken with a pinch of salt as there are so many ways to calculate (and hide) wealth. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 30, 2018, 04:56:35 PM


Considering Fosun own the dogheads and they're valued at about 60 billion i find hard to believe we're above them.

Not that this shit matters when you can't spend it anyway  ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 02, 2018, 04:48:24 PM
Another 2 properties charges / mortgages paid off today according to companies house, on top of the 11 they paid off on taking over. 👌👍. Only 3 outstanding now. More towards proving finance controls and increased assets towards FFP.
Dr T might write....( 11 x 😡🏡+ 3 x 😡🏡)➕ (14 x £££) + Jack Grealish = FFP ??
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Increased assets won’t help with FFP unless they generate income.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 02, 2018, 05:14:29 PM
Increased assets won’t help with FFP unless they generate income.

I am guessing that is the idea of paying off the mortgages. Then they can sell the properties to generate income. When I was a manager for William Hill, at one point they sold a load of their properties off to raise capital on the agreement that they could then rent the shops back from the new owners. Isn't that also similar to what the FA are talking about doing with Wembley?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2018, 05:37:36 PM
Yes, sale and lease back.  Its fairly common.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2018, 06:02:35 PM
I would imagine they've looked st the books and cannot quite work out why we own a farm, a hall and a semi-detached house in Great Barr. Or why we're paying HSBC monthly for the privilege of owning an interest in the properties or why we haven't owned the home of football outright since the 1950s.

I understand all the parcels of land around B6 itself for development purposes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 02, 2018, 06:09:28 PM
Just because Edens has part ownership doesn't mean that he has to be a director, does it ?

Anyway, the other bloke's appointment was only filed at Co House last Wednesday

He doesn't have to hold any position at the club at all. He's a shareholder.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2018, 06:11:38 PM
Correctamundo.

Ownership and control are two different things.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on August 03, 2018, 01:57:29 PM
Companies house show an allotment of more shares.  Document not available yet so not certain if it's 4mn more for a total of 73mn or 73mn more!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on August 07, 2018, 10:20:45 AM
Companies house now filed Wes EDEN’s as director..... ironically listed as the first appointment before older ones left or Dr T had changed and before Nassef was listed. All one big happy family now !
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 08, 2018, 09:01:10 AM
Wesley Robert Edens no less.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villabear on August 08, 2018, 10:43:46 PM
I don’t think Dr Tony can be too involved in the running of the club at the moment as he’s got the time to read Twitter #avfc and ‘like’ two of my tweets today.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 08, 2018, 11:41:57 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 08, 2018, 11:55:17 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.

He's a talk radio foghorn. I saw on Twitter that he'd been voted onto the board of AVST, rather than the club's board?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on August 08, 2018, 11:57:49 PM
Who’s Jonny Gould? New director apparently.

He's a talk radio foghorn. I saw on Twitter that he'd been voted onto the board of AVST, rather than the club's board?

Ah ok. Bit of difference there then.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: richl on August 09, 2018, 12:00:58 AM
Still no bottom of the shirt sponsor. How much will that be worth?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 09, 2018, 07:04:29 AM
Not a lot I'd have thought.

Which is odd as in F1 sponsors are everywhere on the suits and cars, worth a fortune to a global audience.

We're on Sky 20 times a year in a significantly distributed league globally, so you'd think clubs would have lots of sponsorship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 22, 2018, 06:56:40 PM
Looks as if #AVFC owners have either invested a further £30m cash in the club via a share issue or written off £30m of debt by converting into shares. Either way further sign of sensible stable ownership.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on August 22, 2018, 06:58:14 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlOEQmDWsAAWfDk.jpg:large)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on August 22, 2018, 07:04:52 PM
Sounds good.  Happy days. Win tonight too please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 23, 2018, 07:15:21 AM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 23, 2018, 01:55:30 PM
Foam at the mouth about something we haven't breached.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on August 23, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
Foam at the mouth about something we haven't breached.

Yeah, but in this division we're the supposed big boys to be shot down.

I just wish we'd bloody act and play like it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 23, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.


I think the foam thing is just down to the local dialect.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on August 23, 2018, 05:18:41 PM
too much scrumpy
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 23, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
It's a back handed compliment. Can you imagine Villa fans foaming at the mouth over Sheffield Wednesday or Bristol City? It just wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 24, 2018, 09:58:42 AM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 10:30:58 AM
£47m for a club he paid £75m for and then shelled out God knows on transfer fees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 24, 2018, 10:36:30 AM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on August 24, 2018, 10:37:43 AM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Spot on.

People talk about transfer spending as if it came out of his back pocket.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on August 24, 2018, 04:49:28 PM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Spot on.

People talk about transfer spending as if it came out of his back pocket.

Think we have successful business men in charge now who will take a longer term view but ultimately provide us with a successful  future.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT Villan on August 24, 2018, 05:50:54 PM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.

Didn't he already receive 35m for a 55% stake ; wouldn't this be a total of 82m once all of his shares have been purchased ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on August 24, 2018, 05:54:44 PM
For some reason Bristol City fans foam at the mouth about us and it's a common theme amongst other clubs to "hate the Villa with a passion" over FFP and other odd reasons.
Bovverred?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 24, 2018, 06:01:37 PM
Looks like Dr T has had his shares changed to "deferred shares" so that they no longer carry voting rights, and that he's no longer entitled to any distributions.  The company can at any time it likes, redeem them, ie buy him out, for £1 a share, or £47m.  Must be a bit of a kick in the nuts that.

If I've understood that right, unless they were preparing to sell I don't know why they'd ever buy him out - makes NSWE investment even better value, and shows the good doctor up for what he is (or isnt?)  ie a businessman
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 24, 2018, 06:38:16 PM


I noticed Recon had disappeared from the presser background boards this morning
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on August 24, 2018, 06:40:57 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 24, 2018, 06:54:17 PM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 07:15:45 PM
£47m for a club he brought to the very brink. Any one of us could have done what he did, spend the parachute payments and sell off every last drop of income for an all or nothing throw of the dice. Absolutely no thought went in to anything he did, basically kid on a computer game kind of stuff. He's lucky to get a penny.

Although it came across cack handedly in my post I fully concur with this sentiment.  Remember ‘I’m not a dollar billionaire.’  Remember the Daily Mail journalist that was shown that bank draft for £50m or whatever it was.  RMB probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clark W Griswold on August 24, 2018, 07:19:52 PM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.

Indeed. I agree that he had the best of intentions and the fact that he sorted the shitstorm he'd created within a matter of weeks and to the extent that he did (the new owners) I'll always be fond of him.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on August 24, 2018, 07:22:56 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?

I suspect that signage will be gone soon if it hasn't already as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: oldhill_avfc on August 24, 2018, 07:23:10 PM
How touchingly naive.

He blagged his way into the Villa with borrowed money that he to pay back very quickly.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on August 24, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 08:07:53 PM
How touchingly naive.

He blagged his way into the Villa with borrowed money that he to pay back very quickly.

Triads?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on August 24, 2018, 08:13:13 PM
Arent they sponsoring bodymoor?

The Recon logos had disappeared from the wall behind Bruce at this morning’s press conference having still been there last week.

I suspect that signage will be gone soon if it hasn't already as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2018, 08:16:03 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on August 24, 2018, 08:18:27 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Sometimes I actually feel quite sorry for him, .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisf on August 24, 2018, 08:22:06 PM
I like to think that Tony was (as he said at the time) looking for minority investment partners.

It was going really well. He'd sold 27% to some Egyptian geezer and 27% to a Yank in a dodgy suit.

Tony's still got 45% so he's the still the proud chairman and big cheese ... oh bugger.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 24, 2018, 08:25:02 PM
Randy really was very, very desperate to sell wasn't he?
Yep, he could not wait to be rid of us in the end.
Took a huge hit on the price having gone the Austerity route in an attempt to stop hemmorrhaging  cash.
So he came, spunked a load, shot his bolt and squirted off a few hundred million lighter.
Sometimes I actually feel quite sorry for him, .
I can understand that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on August 24, 2018, 08:28:38 PM
I like to think that Tony was (as he said at the time) looking for minority investment partners.

It was going really well. He'd sold 27% to some Egyptian geezer and 27% to a Yank in a dodgy suit.

Tony's still got 45% so he's the still the proud chairman and big cheese ... oh bugger.

He doesn't. Additional shares have been issued so his percentage has been devalued.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 11:14:03 PM
Got to love this bitterness.

Alan Nixon
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
·
4h
New owners means new money. And a new gamble.
Quote Tweet
Charlie Hicks
@CharlieYidz
Replying to @DC_32212 and @reluctantnicko
How the fk have Villa gone from being up shit Creek financially to signing players?
Surely if they don’t go up this season they are totally fucked Alan?
They can’t afford to keep doing this.

Knowing their fans they’ll want Bruce sacked if there’s a run of 3 draws
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on August 24, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
For the 122nd time we haven’t breached FFP.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:34:15 AM
The whole takeover from day one appeared to be a way of him stepping aside and being eased out quietly and diplomatically over a short period of time without shoving him through the exit door too quickly so he could retain some pride and respect. I think he had the best of intentions but just wasn't up to running a football club. I shudder to think exactly how bad things could have got on and off the pitch without the takeover. Aside from our new owners clearly being rich I was delighted they also had experience of running a sports team.
we’re all guessing really, but this is how I see it Damo. I do believe Dr T had good intentions, but was out of his depth. Looks like he’s found a (relatively) cheap and face-saving exit door.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on August 25, 2018, 08:40:38 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:43:34 AM
Got to love this bitterness.

Alan Nixon
Alan Nixon
@reluctantnicko
·
4h
New owners means new money. And a new gamble.
Quote Tweet
Charlie Hicks
@CharlieYidz
Replying to @DC_32212 and @reluctantnicko
How the fk have Villa gone from being up shit Creek financially to signing players?
Surely if they don’t go up this season they are totally fucked Alan?
They can’t afford to keep doing this.

Knowing their fans they’ll want Bruce sacked if there’s a run of 3 draws

To be fair- he’s right about the last bit! #ficklevillafansfromtheshiresintheirrangerovers 😉
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on August 25, 2018, 08:49:00 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.
I think you’re on the money there too Brian. Who was that c*** from arsenal- Tom Fox ? Had me hook line and sinker. I do wonder where my natural healthy Villa fan cynicism disappeared to when they got him in. I put it down to pure desperation that everything was going to be alright.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on August 25, 2018, 08:53:28 AM
Me too.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on August 25, 2018, 09:17:27 AM
FWIIW I think Tony Xia fell into exactly the same trap as Randy Lerner.  He had the wrong people around him.  By and large opportunistic careerists who exploited both owners' naivety.

spot on

and the new owners will either rise or fall on their recruitment record
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 25, 2018, 09:19:36 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 09:20:20 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.

The bloke was a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 25, 2018, 09:27:00 AM
Fox had some good ideas on how to organise us into a modern business entity. He just didn't have the football experience to put it into practice.

The bloke was a fucking idiot.

We will have to agree to disagree. He was far from stupid but had nowhere near the required experience to dig us out of the shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 09:32:35 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: themossman on August 25, 2018, 09:37:50 AM
Just to confirm Bristol city fans really do hate us to a bizarre degree. Guy cutting my hair this week was talking about joe Bryan like it’s was a legendary victory for them and it wipes out the 5-0.

I think a lot of it is Kodjia based I guess that was the clearest example of us steaming in with parachute money and nicking another champ club’s best player.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2018, 10:05:28 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on August 25, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.

Depends if the person you’re trying to convince is an idiot I suppose.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on August 25, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
He made idiotic decisions, so I'll go with idiot too.
I take idiot to mean foolish.

There is no link between intelligence and wisdom.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on August 25, 2018, 11:23:38 AM
I reckon there must have been two blokes called Tom Fox working at Arsenal. One was the Chief Commercial Officer and the other one ran the club shop. We mixed them up and appointed the wrong one.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on August 25, 2018, 05:23:07 PM
A poor result next week and we may see how serious they are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on August 25, 2018, 05:24:31 PM
I trust they're prepared for another season in the Championship.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2018, 05:50:29 PM
He was an unmitigated disaster.  He made Tim Sherwood (who he appointed, lest we forget) look like a beacon of intelligence and competence.  Fox was just about the worst senior exec we've ever had, and given some of the numpties of late, that's quite an accolade.  False Narrative arsehole.

Convincing someone to pay you millions of pounds to job you can’t do is not the work of an idiot, in my view.

Well Sherwood managed it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on August 25, 2018, 08:43:37 PM
I hope that as well as sorting the playing side out, these two get the basic commercial stuff sorted out too. Yet again, the farce that is our stadium catering operation was in full effect in the Trinity today. No card payments, nowhere near enough staff and hot dogs selling out before half time...not that I would eat one but there were plenty of disappointed punters - and that’s before the equaliser!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on August 26, 2018, 10:44:44 AM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on August 26, 2018, 11:21:28 AM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

A tad out of my price range even if I was interested.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on August 26, 2018, 11:51:54 AM
If I had the money I'd buy them and run them in to the ground the shithouses.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on August 26, 2018, 12:01:18 PM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

Is that the borough of Chelsea?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on August 26, 2018, 12:07:26 PM
Chelsea up for sale - for £2 billion!!

Is that the borough of Chelsea?

£2bn wouldn’t go very far there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: myf on September 01, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.

Well they didn’t really have much choice did they? There was no structure, beyond Bruce, in place and they had little time and FFP to contend with.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:32:49 PM
Their first decision to retain Bruce was a big mistake. Not enthralled by their transfer policy either - looking very short termism again with reliance on loanees.

I disagree.

Bruceosauros was needed at the time to keep a bit of continuity.  He is now a dead man walking having served his purpose.

We need to utilize the loan market due to FFP.  Wolves played it perfectly last season as did Huddersfield the season before - It is where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2018, 08:36:16 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:43:04 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

3 points from the last 12 after fluking a last minute win against Wigan.

2 of those points being against the bottom 2 teams.

Heading for "thereabouts" but "there" is looking increasingly unlikely, even at this early stage.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sickbeggar on September 01, 2018, 08:55:00 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brassneck on September 01, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.

If its Bruce who spent the money of course.

I know he gives it loads about him not standing for interference but every man has his price, including Bruce.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on September 01, 2018, 10:14:16 PM
I would imagine the next manager has already been lined up. These new guys won’t by shy to pull the trigger I’m sure of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2018, 11:10:05 PM
Big decision over next few days.

Ditching SB now would be statement of intent and let's be honest with these last few performances we are sliding down the league so don't think we have much to lose by letting him go.

Not sure the owners would see it like that especially when you've dumped a manager a week or two after letting him bring in 7 players and probably spend 10m on transfers, loan fee's and wages. Certainly they'd look a bit foolish.

Are they all his signings though? Bolaise and Abraham yes as they're obvious ones which SB seems to specialise in, the ones from abroad probably not.

If they have little confidence in him actually bringing the best out of these signings like most of us on here then we need to let him go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on March 24, 2019, 08:48:20 AM
Companies house showing change of name... Recon football club ltd finally disappeared and now back to ASTON VILLA LIMITED 👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Perhaps more compliance to our agreement under new ownership following EFL rules and changes to avoid any fair play issues. Old guard now removed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on March 24, 2019, 11:58:34 AM
Companies house showing chains of name... Recon football club ltd finally disappeared and now back to ASTON VILLA LIMITED 👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Perhaps more compliance to our agreement under new ownership following EFL rules and changes to avoid any fair play issues. Old guard now removed
Good news. It would be nice to hear a statement of intent off the owners. Anything from them woud be nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on March 24, 2019, 12:28:52 PM
Xia is still listed as an active director, though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on March 24, 2019, 01:07:22 PM
I think he's gradually being diluted like weak Kia-Ora though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on March 24, 2019, 01:31:20 PM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on March 24, 2019, 02:22:41 PM
Fair play current owners clearing loads of debt and putting working capital shares in place....we’ve not even started a main transfer window yet . If we did go Up, I just wonder how much they would splash as opposed to being restricted by ffp in championship again ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villafirst on March 24, 2019, 02:37:40 PM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.

But the majic trick backfired somewhat spectacularly!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Timmo on April 11, 2019, 08:40:19 PM
Club owners have become less visible in recent months, it seems. Does anyone know if they attend games? Any interviews or statements from 5hem. Curious to know what they think of current club status.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on April 11, 2019, 08:59:00 PM
Current club status is that we are an improving top half championship club so nothing to get excited about and nothing to be worried about for the moment. No statement  necessary.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on April 11, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
I’d go a bit further to say, we’re the form team of the championship, 7 wins on the bounce, and look to be emulating, or eclipsing, the Fulham of last season. Let them make a statement after we’ve won the playoff final at Wembley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 12, 2019, 02:48:14 AM
I was thinking about this the other day as its only a matter of time until we hear cries of "absentee owners" if anything goes wrong. We have Purslow who keeps us informed of any off the field developments, Smith keeps us well informed of any team news and the communication from the club via email and social media is the best its ever been. Owners do not have to be seen or heard so let them just get on with quietly steering the good ship Villa in the right direction.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on April 12, 2019, 04:17:30 AM
Alan Nixons twitter feed had someone mention French media reports suggesting that the PSG owners looking at us, Forest or QPR.

Anyone else heard anything, BE? 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 12, 2019, 04:48:45 AM
Just speculative rumours and I don't think NSWE would even consider selling if we get promoted...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/04/11/psg-owners-may-buy-championship-club-french-media-make-links/
https://en.onefootball.com/psg-owners-interested-in-purchasing-roma-and-or-championship-clubs/
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on April 12, 2019, 07:09:15 AM
I don’t see the current owners selling up so early into their investment which for the most part has been a success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: papa lazarou on April 12, 2019, 09:52:41 AM
Speculation.
Even if true it suggests that a championship club would be the target, which rules us out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 12, 2019, 11:58:34 AM
I,m still not sure what Dr.Tony does or has.He suddenly arrived on the scene and then just as suddenly disappeared. A bit like a Paul Daniels magic trick.

But the majic trick backfired somewhat spectacularly!

More like Tommy Cooper than Paul Daniels. Plus they both disappeared behind a curtain never to be seen again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 12, 2019, 01:15:02 PM
QPR strong fanbase?! Have a word...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on April 12, 2019, 01:50:01 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 12, 2019, 03:18:19 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

I agree about 99% but there other 1% of me is trying to work out whether they might think getting Mbappe and Neymar in the premier league would be a good idea and moving them from 1 team to their other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 12, 2019, 03:21:50 PM
"English clubs with strong fan bases"... "QPR".

Great research, amis.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Billy Walker on April 12, 2019, 03:45:07 PM
I did hear a while back (I think it was on the radio) that Christian Purslow was in talks with other potential investors.  I'm no expert on how these things work, but is it feasible that the PSG owners (if this story is true) could be looking to invest into the "NSWE" investment vehicle itself?  That way they could bypass issues about being involved with more than one club?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on April 12, 2019, 03:55:49 PM
PSG as a feeder club? I can live with that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on April 12, 2019, 04:07:44 PM
Probably bow locks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go f*** themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

Can they fund us winning the FA Cup once before I cark it, and then go and f*** themselves?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2019, 06:24:09 PM
Probably bollocks, but in any event the PSG owners can kindly go fuck themselves. If there's one thing this spell in the Championship has taught me it's that even in football some things are more important than the brute fact of success.

Indeed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: SaddVillan on April 13, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Not sure if they would find it as easy in England. PSG outspend every other team on France by a considerable margin and so can almost guarantee that whoever signs for them will be in the Chumps year ad infinitum.

Buying a Div 2 club and taking it to the top of the Prem and beyond will require a considerable amount of money AND time. In terms of signings when it comes to choosing somewhere to live, does Brum or Nottingham have the cachet of Paris, London, Milan, Barca or Madrid- so they'd have to pay mega contracts to get top players in.

Same goes for management. The top ones don't/won't want to spend 2-3 seasons working their way up through the leagues.

Added to which, we have very wealthy owners, who might sell for a quick profit, but we all hope are in it for the long term. They've got plans in place for steady progress and that to me is a better way than pouring in a billion petrodollars.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on April 22, 2019, 06:24:54 PM
I knew that at some point these guys would get infected by the Villa bug.
It has happened....they are now one of us.

https://twitter.com/villareport/status/1120361312389869568?s=21
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Singapore Villa on April 23, 2019, 01:44:08 PM
Good to see some passion.

UTV!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 23, 2019, 02:25:07 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dr Butler on April 23, 2019, 02:34:07 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

probaly not enough aways for tickets :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 23, 2019, 02:35:30 PM
Bloody glory hunters

What I’d like to know is where were they when we was shit and broke?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on April 23, 2019, 03:13:31 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 03:30:05 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
Bloody glory hunters

What I’d like to know is where were they when we was shit and broke?

Waiting there with bags of cash
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:05:36 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on April 23, 2019, 04:09:20 PM
I am a bit dubious of the owner who comes in and promises this that and how much he now loves the club in such s short time
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 04:20:24 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.

What I really liked about them when we met was that they bought something off me didn't promise the earth and weren't going to run before they could walk. Lerner at first was the right man for his time, as Doug had been in 1968, but these two didn't feel that they had anything to prove, which I suppose is understandable when you're that rich.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:24:17 PM
they've probably visited the ground more times than Randy did just by turning up yesterday.

Which is nonsense and you know it.

 I like how they’ve bought into the club in an understated way and not yet promised something they are not able to deliver.

What I really liked about them when we met was that they bought something off me didn't promise the earth and weren't going to run before they could walk. Lerner at first was the right man for his time, as Doug had been in 1968, but these two didn't feel that they had anything to prove, which I suppose is understandable when you're that rich.   

Yes yes but they've been here more times than Randy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on April 23, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 23, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on April 23, 2019, 04:59:02 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.
He did employ decent CEO's, they were just undermined and ultimately removed by O'Neill. He did the same at Sunderland.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on April 23, 2019, 05:08:52 PM
Please don't talk about Lerner.

Gone, best forgotten.

Our new guys haven't put a foot wrong yet. Good investment and appointments which have given good results.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on April 23, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
Tom Fox was that man.  Unfortunately he turned out to be a false narrative.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: XXVilla on April 23, 2019, 05:43:57 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.

Villa gave him quite a battering in his pocket. That and the financial crash
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 23, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Biggest failing was to keep appointing shit managers
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on April 23, 2019, 06:28:24 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Don't think Mallory's dress from yesterday would be suitable attire for a freezing, dismal Feb night. Just been waiting for the warm weather to arrive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 06:52:52 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Biggest failing was to keep appointing shit managers


At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2019, 07:05:18 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: aj2k77 on April 23, 2019, 07:36:53 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.

Because no one at the club gave a fuck and getting rid of him and hiring a new manager was more hassle?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on April 23, 2019, 09:23:43 PM

At least he got shot of McLeish quickly when the appointment clearly hadn't worked out. It is just a shame he didn't do the same with Lambert.

I will never to this day understand how Lambert survived that Christmas period that contained the 8-0 dicking by Chelsea.

it wasn’t just an isolated result either was it
we were shipping in goals all over the place

really bad  ( as Gendry would say )
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 09:36:39 PM
Because what this site really needs is another Paul Lambert moanathon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Because what this site really needs is another Paul Lambert moanathon.


As football fans we all tend to be Victor Meldrew's and given our recent winning run we have to have a moan about other things rather than our results. But I agree we should probably just try to forget about Lambert.

I might start a Graham Turner thread. ;)

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on April 23, 2019, 09:53:37 PM
Lerner's problem was his total failure to understand that although he was willing to put huge amounts of money in, he still needed to appoint people to look after his investment and grow it.

Even Man City's owners with their literally endless wealth understand that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:01:16 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Villan For Life on April 23, 2019, 10:04:36 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on April 23, 2019, 10:08:39 PM
Fantastic to see that sort of passion from the CEO and owners.  I hope to God they see the potential in this club.  We were getting 41,000 for mid-table games not so long ago, we are getting those sorts of crowds now for upper table games.  Topping the table for average crowds I believe?  Just how good might things be in the Premier Division?  If we fail to go up this season, I hope they see the potential and continue to back the management team, making sure that we get off to a better start next season and maintain the momentum throughout the campaign. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on April 23, 2019, 10:14:51 PM
The best thing they've done is employ Purslow and keep quiet. A proper administrator with experience not being undermined by a vocal owner is almost like they taken the mistakes made by the last 2 owners and been determined not to repeat them.

That was possibly Randy's biggest failing. He stayed in the background but didn't employ anyone decent to run it.

Out of his depth really. This became obvious when the money dried up.

I'm not sure the money dried up, he probably just lost interest.

Villa gave him quite a battering in his pocket. That and the financial crash

Somebody with a link to one of our former American players told Chico a few years ago that Lerner’s mom had put a pocket money cap on his investment in the Villa as she didn’t want him squandering the family fortune. The number I have in my head is £400m.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.

Maybe Steve Stride would have been a good middle man/go between in the Randy Lerner/Martin O'Neill relationship but whilst their was clearly mutual respect between Stride and SGT and Stride and BFR I am not sure Stride and MON would have made for happy bedfellows.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on April 23, 2019, 10:21:20 PM
Something just over £200 million is usually reckoned to be the cost. Or, to repeat myself again, £20 every time anyone entered Villa Park, whether for a match, a corporate meeting or just to ask directions to the M6. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 23, 2019, 10:23:06 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

We needed someone who could have stopped MON dishing out lengthy contracts to older players like Heskey and Given. Steve Stride would have been perfect in that role.

MON didn't sign Given, McLeish did.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on April 23, 2019, 11:29:25 PM

Somebody with a link to one of our former American players told Chico a few years ago that Lerner’s mom had put a pocket money cap on his investment in the Villa as she didn’t want him squandering the family fortune. The number I have in my head is £400m.

That rings true, especially with all the funds in a trust.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on April 23, 2019, 11:50:06 PM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

Surely the problem was that MON WAS given total control of the football side of the club and acted as DoF, Manager and Coach at the same time. He was out of date when we appointed him and did nothing to disprove that in his time at the helm. A third of a billion spunked up the wall and not a trophy or CL qualification to show for it and has been found out in every job he’s had since. And MON would have walked sooner if we’d insisted on a DoF as he saw himself as a Clough/Shankly/Busby figure the only drawback being he had about 1/10th of the ability.

Lerner was an inept a charlatan as Xia it was just hidden behind the money he threw at it for the first 3 or so years. As soon as he stopped the money his disinterest and appalling executive and managerial choices meant only one inevitable result.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dougs Socks on April 24, 2019, 12:20:56 AM
Personally, for me it's not the money being spent, but the fact there seems to be a long term strategy. I really believe that we are going places with these two guys. The transformation since the summer is down to these guys.  I mean, people actually knowing what they are doing....who would of thought lol.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on April 24, 2019, 01:04:58 AM
Yes, Lerner certainly put money in, but he seemed to be under the impression that with MON in place, that was all that he needed to do. His attitude seemed to be ‘in Martin we trust’ which is perhaps why he was so very obviously hurt when MON walked.

At this time we were outspending the likes of Everton and Spurs, but getting nothing to show for it. With hindsight there was an opportunity to break into the top four, which probably won’t come along again - especially since the Abu Dhabi money, and now FFP has come in. The big clubs were busy making themselves self-sustainable, by increasing their revenues and building scouting and youth development.

We ultimately have nothing to show for Lerner’s involvement. The greatest achievement, and it was some achievement, was to get a founding member of the Premier League relegated after 24 continuous seasons in the most financially successful league ever. I’m fairly confident that none of the other founding members who are yet to be relegated ever will be.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on April 24, 2019, 08:25:52 AM
he came, he saw, he squandered.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: lovejoy on April 24, 2019, 08:48:42 AM
To be fair, didn't he upgrade the training facilities?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 24, 2019, 09:33:58 AM
I think in hindsight MON should have been given total control of first team matters but some kind of DOF was needed regarding the structure of the club in general. I was a big fan of MON but like most managers it was all about the here and now and results. That is fine so long as someone else at the club has an eye on the bigger long term picture.

Surely the problem was that MON WAS given total control of the football side of the club and acted as DoF, Manager and Coach at the same time. He was out of date when we appointed him and did nothing to disprove that in his time at the helm. A third of a billion spunked up the wall and not a trophy or CL qualification to show for it and has been found out in every job he’s had since. And MON would have walked sooner if we’d insisted on a DoF as he saw himself as a Clough/Shankly/Busby figure the only drawback being he had about 1/10th of the ability.

Lerner was an inept a charlatan as Xia it was just hidden behind the money he threw at it for the first 3 or so years. As soon as he stopped the money his disinterest and appalling executive and managerial choices meant only one inevitable result.


I don't recall too many people saying MON was 'out of date' when we appointed him. As I recall he was a very popular choice. Prior to taking a year off to spend time with his ill wife his successful spells at Leicester and
Celtic had made him some peoples choice for the England job as well as a lot of big club jobs.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on April 24, 2019, 09:37:20 AM
MON was not out of date at all and I don't remember people saying that at the time either. From memory, didn't some fans turn up at the ground the day he held his press conference?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on April 24, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
To be fair, didn't he upgrade the training facilities?

To be fair I don't think he had much choice. As I recall Doug had left the upgrade half finished because he didn't want to spend any more cash.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dave P on April 24, 2019, 09:43:06 AM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on April 24, 2019, 11:11:53 AM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

If we do go up this year I'll be delighted, but also furious that we were so fucking shit every time we turned up at my local ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on April 24, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
What's the situation with FFP if we do get promoted? Do all our FFP issues go away or will we still be restricted in terms of what we can spend? I thought FFP were rules were different in the Premier League and only apply if you qualify for Europe...but I've been told recently that this is not the case?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on April 24, 2019, 01:01:52 PM
We’ll be minted if we go up and we will just go and buy Messi and Mbappe and De Ligt to play next to Mings.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on April 24, 2019, 02:28:41 PM
We’ll be minted if we go up and we will just go and buy Messi and Mbappe and De Ligt to play next to Mings.

That would be some back 4
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on April 26, 2019, 12:57:34 PM
A sunny delight.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 04:59:51 PM
Our Wes Edens sat next to Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and his new girlfriend Nascar driver Danica Patrick at the Bucks vs Boston game the other night sporting a lovely top

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6Fo3fvWwAAf0Hg.jpg:large)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on May 10, 2019, 05:01:55 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
It looks like Brett Favre next to her so she probably received one of his dick pics.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2019, 05:31:46 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.

*Pls leave me alone u weird fucka*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 10, 2019, 05:59:34 PM
His daughter next to him on her phone. Probably texting me.

“Fuck off I’m 14”
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 10, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Anyone know if owners here for either of semi final legs ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 10, 2019, 08:24:16 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

I was outside the club shop after the Norwich game, and Tyrone Mings stopped in his car to sign some autographs.

Behind him was Pitarch (in a white BMW x6, car fans), with his window open.

He really does look remarkably like Richard Madeley.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on May 10, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
Yeah but where were they on a freezing, dismal February night in Brentford?

Purslow and Pitach were at Brentford. I stood right by them.

I was outside the club shop after the Norwich game, and Tyrone Mings stopped in his car to sign some autographs.

Behind him was Pitarch (in a white BMW x6, car fans), with his window open.

He really does look remarkably like Richard Madeley.

I bet the poor sod is wondering the security guards keep following him around Tescos
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 10, 2019, 09:31:04 PM
Nice sight for us co Villa/Packers fans!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andrew08 on May 10, 2019, 09:50:21 PM
Nice sight for us co Villa/Packers fans!

Indeed.. need to see Rodgers in a Villa cap soon.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 10, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
No we fucking don't.

Regards,

The H&V Chicago Bears Contingent.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 11, 2019, 02:44:17 PM
Both at the game today, they must see it’s a bloody good investment and can only get better....hope they both enjoyed
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 13, 2019, 01:15:27 PM
Aston Villa's owners have just made this subtle change on Companies House

Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens were both in attendance along with CEO Christian Purslow as Villa beat West Bromwich Albion on Saturday
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An Aston Villa company under the control of the club’s billionaire owners has changed its name – with a nod both towards Villa Park and Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

Recon Football Limited, a subsidiary of Villa’s group parent company Recon Group UK Limited, has unveiled a new name, via Companies House.

Villa were taken over by NSWE SCS, a company jointly owned by Nassef Sawiris’ group NNS and businessman Wes Edens, in July last year.

 
At that time, the pair took control from Tony Xia’s Zhejiang Ruikang Investment Co. Ltd vehicle and immediately injected capital to help keep Villa afloat.

Through its ownership structure, NSWE SCS controls Recon Football Limited.

As of 13 May, Recon Football Limited has adopted a new name including the NSWE title: NSWE Stadium Limited.


I wonder if any of that is part leaning towards increasing assets value and FFP compliance ?
Ground re naming perhaps ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on May 13, 2019, 01:35:51 PM
Accountants and finance folk to the thread please.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on May 13, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
You know I wonder just what these guys will spend if we get up this year and have a clean financial slate

They certainly have it - wonder if they want to spend it

Days like Saturday - where the atmosphere at times was as electric as the drama of the 2nd half must reassure them we were a great purchase
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
The most obvious answer would be an impending group reorg where the stadium ownership gets moved to a different group company to the football club operations.

Splitting trade and assets within a group structure is a fairly standard risk management strategy.

The only thing that's odd here is that that company is a subsidiary whereas you'd normally put assets higher up the group structure than the trading activities which makes me think a group reorg may be on the way.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on May 13, 2019, 07:45:45 PM
Are we likely to do a Derby County and sell the ground to the owner?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 08:17:48 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:06:07 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 09:22:50 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:25:46 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 13, 2019, 09:27:22 PM
You know I wonder just what these guys will spend if we get up this year and have a clean financial slate

They certainly have it - wonder if they want to spend it

Days like Saturday - where the atmosphere at times was as electric as the drama of the 2nd half must reassure them we were a great purchase

And that, ladies & gentlemen, is what's making the other lot's heads spin.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ad@m on May 13, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Richard E on May 13, 2019, 09:28:15 PM
Not too worried about the technical details - cutting to the chase, how long is it before we overtake Man City then?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 13, 2019, 09:36:14 PM
If we get promoted, we will be above them one second later.

Still below Arsenal and AFC Bournemouth, though. 😡
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 09:44:26 PM
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.
[/quote
Who knows. If they did it would significantly reduce the price if they ever wanted to sell us so I'd be surprised.

Would they not be able to 'buy' it back ahead of such a sale?

They would but what would be the point? Plus they'd probably end up with a huge tax bill.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if they made the stadium an asset of the club again before a sale then would that not reinflate the asking price?

It would, but then what would be the point in taking it out of the club in the first place if that was what they were going to do?

And the sale back to the club would trigger a tax liability on them which could be avoided if they leave the ground in the club in the first place.

FFP if we don't go up?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 13, 2019, 09:58:29 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 13, 2019, 10:02:58 PM
Fucking state of that quote.

*shakes head.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.

I've let myself down, and I'll be disappointed when I see it again. There were mitigating circumstances in that I was using my left hand. I was holding a crumpet in my right hand and I'm all right hand. It's always been my weakness as a poster. It's why I never got the recognition I deserved with a call-up to BTL at the Guardian, or writing into podcasts. I did get an offer once to represent TBAR but my heart wouldn't have been in it. You want to post at the top level really.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 13, 2019, 10:18:15 PM
A poster with your experience should never be making mistakes like that, SE. The crumpet should be in the left hand! I'd keep you behind after work for extra training.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 13, 2019, 10:27:58 PM
A poster with your experience should never be making mistakes like that, SE. The crumpet should be in the left hand! I'd keep you behind after work for extra training.

Trust me, fbrai, nobody's hurting more than me. I just need to keep my head down and start proving people wrong, which is what it's all about, which in itself is a terrible way to live a life when you think about it.

A word from my manager: "ah hink SE's quote was excellent. Some eh the punctuation wis world class, it wis. Aye, it's no purfict, but you show me a quote thut is. If he quotes like that nixt post there'll be no complaints from me."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 13, 2019, 10:31:28 PM
Paul Lambert is your manager!? That explains it all to be fair.

You go again, SE. You go again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: adrenachrome on May 13, 2019, 10:39:15 PM
I'm not angry at you for that quote fail SE, just very disappointed.

I've let myself down, and I'll be disappointed when I see it again. There were mitigating circumstances in that I was using my left hand. I was holding a crumpet in my right hand and I'm all right hand. It's always been my weakness as a poster. It's why I never got the recognition I deserved with a call-up to BTL at the Guardian, or writing into podcasts. I did get an offer once to represent TBAR but my heart wouldn't have been in it. You want to post at the top level really.

In the not too distant past, having a bit of crumpet in your right hand to excuse epic quote failure would have elicited an entirely different range of responses.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on May 14, 2019, 08:22:09 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sister of Top Cat on May 14, 2019, 08:27:23 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Brian - I was just about to post about it being a pikelet too :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 09:41:12 AM
You can always spot a robot.  The real SE has been to Birmingham enough times and had social intercourse with those of us from the Eternit City never to use the 'C' word.   It is a pikelet he would have had in his right hand.

Eternit is the trade name for asbestos sheeting.
Brian - I was just about to post about it being a pikelet too :)

They're two different things.

Crumpet is baked in a ring whereas a pikelet is more of a free shape. The dough isn't as thick in a pikelet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 11:21:42 AM
It's still a bloody pikelet, even if it f****ng says "crumpet" on the packet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 11:22:25 AM
Sorry, pikelit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 12:21:46 PM
This is the first time I've ever heard of pikelets. What a day for it all to go wrong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 12:34:02 PM
Pikelets are great.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 14, 2019, 12:44:35 PM
And different to crumpets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 12:48:40 PM
What everyone else in the country ( incorrectly) calls a crumpet is actually a pikelet. I don't care what Warburtons put on their packaging, they're wrong. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 12:53:17 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


Yep
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Russ aka Big Nose on May 14, 2019, 12:59:43 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


Yep

Yep. Proper pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Stu82 on May 14, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
that there is a pikelet
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: UK Redsox on May 14, 2019, 01:04:21 PM
I've no idea what's been going on for the past couple of pages but it's H&V at its finest
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 01:11:18 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on May 14, 2019, 01:13:06 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)



Always was and always will be.  Them's Pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:14:06 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.

Strained his groin whilst gambolling over an island
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: chrisw1 on May 14, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Black Country born and bred, but those are still crumpets to me.  Sorry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 01:17:23 PM
Probably best to drop SE to the bench tonight, until the whole pikelet-crumpet storm blows over. Tomorrow's chip paper and all that.

Could you imagine the palaver if he accidentally referred to an island as a roundabout tonight? We'd never hear the end of it.

Let's just say he's strained his groin or something.

Strained his groin whilst gambolling over an island

Whilst running to catch the buzz.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 01:30:52 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:32:58 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 01:41:30 PM
Blatantly crumpets. The pikelet brigade are way off...they are much thinner than a crumpet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 01:44:04 PM
It was always the posh families that called them crumpets round our way
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 01:50:34 PM
That seems to be the divide in my work, too. Or at least those that feign poshness. It won't be any surpise to learn that the girl who thinks they are crumpets also pronounces bath and Solihull incorrectly (barth and Sew-lee-hull).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 01:51:06 PM
Blatantly crumpets. The pikelet brigade are way off...they are much thinner than a crumpet.

Thin pikelets are just shit pikelets.

Edit: I see Chico has made exactly the same point! 😂

He's always talked a lot of sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on May 14, 2019, 01:57:50 PM
so pikelets aren't fish? We always left this sort of thing to Nanny.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 01:59:18 PM
I used to run a bakery. We sold both crumpets and pikelets. Same ingredients, but for pikelets the batter was poured directly onto the griddle and allowed to find its own form, inevitably turning out thinner than the crumpets, which were cooked in ring moulds.

That said I do live in a Shire, so my experience counts for naught.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 01:59:26 PM
Do you both incorrectly identify baps and bread rolls as cobs too? :P
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 02:02:42 PM
Do you both incorrectly identify baps and bread rolls as cobs too?

Most certainly. 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
Neanderthals!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 02:11:07 PM
Jesus, this thread is taking an unexpectedly dark turn...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 02:12:12 PM
Bloody crumpets, honestly.

Thanos was right. Well, he shouldn't have stopped at 50%.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:20:33 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?

Yep. But only one is the correct word. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 02:22:12 PM

Yep. But only one is the correct word.

Probably a regional thing, my Mom was born in Smethwick (poor sod) and so they were definitely pikelets when I was growing up, even in posh Solihull.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:27:19 PM

Yep. But only one is the correct word.

Probably a regional thing, my Mom was born in Smethwick (poor sod) and so they were definitely pikelets when I was growing up, even in posh Solihull.

Absolutely a regional thing. The effing stinking jellied eel pie merchants I talk to down here have never heard of pikelets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 02:29:06 PM
I used to run a bakery. We sold both crumpets and pikelets. Same ingredients, but for pikelets the batter was poured directly onto the griddle and allowed to find its own form, inevitably turning out thinner than the crumpets, which were cooked in ring moulds.

That said I do live in a Shire, so my experience counts for naught.

That's how I always understood it as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:31:20 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 02:33:26 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 02:34:53 PM
*the moment of sudden realisation that Chico has been eating crumpets all his life*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:35:24 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 02:44:00 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"

To be fair you’re right, too much Lancs/York’s influence up here in Northern Mercia.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 14, 2019, 02:47:06 PM
I've honestly never had one of these thin pikelets in my life.

So you’ve never had a pikelet then😜

Eat em all the time kidder - the proper thick ones, none of them thin northern nancy "pikelets"

To be fair you’re right, too much Lancs/York’s influence up here in Northern Mercia.

They should stick to their oven bottom muffins
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:12:28 PM
Jesus, this thread is taking an unexpectedly dark turn...

Just wait until someone drags the old 'Biscuit Thread' out again. Many friendships have ended on here regarding what does or does not constitute a biscuit.

As for pikelets/crumpets I thought it was a generational thing as my parents say pikelets and my wife, daughters and I say crumpets. But apparently a pikelet is thinner and has more 'freedom in shape', whatever that means.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 03:14:29 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

Honestly, how many times do we have to go over this?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 14, 2019, 03:21:25 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

A shitelet, if you will.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:26:14 PM
I hope some Albion fans find their way onto H&V today to find out what we are saying about tonights game and discover we are all more interested in a Villa family argument about the difference between a pikelet and a crumpet. ;D
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on May 14, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
I hope some Albion fans find their way onto H&V today to find out what we are saying about tonights game and discover we are all more interested in a Villa family argument about the difference between a pikelet and a crumpet. ;D

It’s not up there with Owls/Gibbons yet but this is a hill I’m willing to suffer some minor discomfort on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: fbriai on May 14, 2019, 03:34:03 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


I've been thinking on this all afternoon. These were definitely pikelets for us. But I can remember the word crumpet as well. I don't think I could tell you the difference between them though.

Is that the equivalent of a half-and-half scarf in this debate?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 03:35:39 PM
Villa 2-1. Now to return to the serious stuff , it’s definitely Pikelets. All shapes, all sizes. And they must only ever have lots of butter on.
 FFS, we will be calling buzzes buses next if we let standards slip like this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 03:39:14 PM
And before anyone suggests it, no, I’m not changing my name to Fred Pikelet. Although it does have a certain ring to it...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on May 14, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
We will probably get some debate on here as it seems to vary from region to region. Especially if we get people from Arctic tundra like Drummond chipping in.

But to me, this is what pikelets looks like...


(https://i.ibb.co/4RNsdb1/DAdno-Wa-Xc-AMy-Pm-W.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RNsdb1)


<throws oil on fire>

Nope they’re Crumpets. Pikelets are thinner and wider.



No they're not, the thin wide ones are just shit pikelets.

So we are back to where we started then that they are just different words for the same thing?


Different words for the same thing in my opinion. That is a picture of some pikelets. It is also a picture of some crumpets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GarTomas on May 14, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
And before anyone suggests it, no, I’m not changing my name to Fred Pikelet. Although it does have a certain ring to it...

Shurely just Fred Pikel?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Fred Crump on May 14, 2019, 04:00:46 PM
You’re right. It’s my kids who would be pikelets
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
No, a pikelet is NOT thinner. Unless it is a shit pikelet.

A shitelet, if you will.

*Nods sagely.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on May 14, 2019, 04:10:16 PM
Pikelets to the working classes.
Crumpets to the privileged.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on May 14, 2019, 04:14:04 PM
Mrs LV has a big Stokie influence and they are apparently crumpets... however they were always pikelets and were a regular tea on a Sunday night after a big Sunday dinner... don't forget your routes!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on May 14, 2019, 04:18:04 PM
Villa 2-1. Now to return to the serious stuff , it’s definitely Pikelets. All shapes, all sizes. And they must only ever have lots of butter on.
 FFS, we will be calling buzzes buses next if we let standards slip like this.
Lashings of butter...but I also recommend adding either strawberry jam or peanut butter. Admittedly not one for the more traditional crumpet (or even pikelet) muncher! 😂
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Moose on May 14, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
Or marmite.....
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ian c. on May 14, 2019, 04:20:32 PM
Crumpets are cooked (at least initially) in a metal ring so they hold their round form. Pikelets are just poured into the pan and spread a little meaning they are thinner and less well defined than a crumpet if the same amount of batter is used.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 04:31:40 PM
where is the linguistic border between crumpetland and pikeyville ? I grew up in Derby and it was definitely pikeys there.

we also said sc-OH-nes NOT sc-ON-es because the latter was for posh twats

and CASSLE not CARHSLE
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 04:32:48 PM
where is the linguistic border between crumpetland and pikeyville ? I grew up in Derby and it was definitely pikeys there.

we also said sc-OH-nes NOT sc-ON-es because the latter was for posh twats

and CASSLE not CARHSLE

id just like to confirm that when I said posh twats I wasnt referring to my wife. But she is posh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 04:38:05 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on May 14, 2019, 04:38:25 PM
I think it's time we got back to trying to batter tonight's opposition.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 14, 2019, 04:39:33 PM
Scone rhymes with gone, not cone. Otherwise you're the posh twat. 😉

I can confirm this as that's how all posh twats I know pronounce the word. See also: pronouncing "bath" like it has an "r" in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Mister E on May 14, 2019, 05:14:22 PM
Crumpets are cooked (at least initially) in a metal ring so they hold their round form. Pikelets are just poured into the pan and spread a little meaning they are thinner and less well defined than a crumpet if the same amount of batter is used.

Correct.
Now I'm eating a 'scowne' whilst running a 'barth'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chris Smith on May 14, 2019, 05:16:33 PM
Pikelets to the working classes.
Crumpets to the privileged.

Blimey, I used to be working class but due to the malign influence of my better half I am now privileged. It must be her Smethwick upbringing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on May 14, 2019, 05:23:53 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?

Thank you for this nugget of information.
*trots off to confront the Welsh speaking missus who moments ago claimed to have never heard of the word "pikelet"*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: usav on May 14, 2019, 05:27:08 PM
Pikelet apparently derives from the Welsh "pyglyd", so less North-South and more East-West?

Thank you for this nugget of information.
*trots off to confront the Welsh speaking missus who moments ago claimed to have never heard of the word "pikelet"*

That would be because she calls it "pyglyd"

Pronounced pcccccckkkkkklllllllllllhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggddddddd
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 05:35:48 PM
That seems to be the divide in my work, too. Or at least those that feign poshness. It won't be any surpise to learn that the girl who thinks they are crumpets also pronounces bath and Solihull incorrectly (barth and Sew-lee-hull).

I like her.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:14:09 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 14, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.

The most important part of the whole recipe is to hum Fuck The Albion from the moment you sift the flour until you delicately pop the first one whole into your mouth once cooked. Then hum it again. They *will* taste better.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 06:33:27 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Well, I think that settles that debate once and for all.  Definitive, and with actual workings out shown. Nice.

The most important part of the whole recipe is to hum Fuck The Albion from the moment you sift the flour until you delicately pop the first one whole into your mouth once cooked. Then hum it again. They *will* taste better.

They look great, it's, pretty much, pancake batter with yeast isn't it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:37:12 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smoke on May 14, 2019, 06:41:13 PM
Crumpets need to be burnt and with butter and marmite on.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 06:42:07 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.

I wouldn't dream of making them without that key ingredient.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:44:45 PM
The magic of the burning comes in from the second cooking when you over-toast them.

I'm not even going to get started on the Marmite debate...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
Outstanding work Rodders. It's a good job you're in on your own.

"Why are you making crumpets, darling?"
"Well, you know how I support Aston Villa..."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
Spot on, Paul.

Don't forget the liberal sprinkling of Fuck The Albion, though if you don't have any in your cupboards a rendition of Super John McGinn shares the three-note phrase and can therefore be substituted if necessary.

I wouldn't dream of making them without that key ingredient.

Or why not combine the two to blend the subtle nuances of each and make the dish your own?

"We've got McGinn
Fuck The Albion"

Or:

"Fuck The Albion,
Super John McGinn"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
Outstanding work Rodders. It's a good job you're in on your own.

"Why are you making crumpets, darling?"
"Well, you know how I support Aston Villa..."

I wondered what the glint of binoculars across the valley was, SE. Pop over and have a crumplet! I mean piket.

Oh Fuck.

What do I mean?

HEINEKEN.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2019, 06:51:36 PM
Muffins is where it's at.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 14, 2019, 06:53:15 PM
I must decline. It's very important, football wise, that I see it at home, where I carry the name of the borough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 06:56:00 PM
Bravo, SE.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dicedlam on May 14, 2019, 07:14:49 PM
Crumpets need to be burnt and with butter and marmite on.

Not sure about the marmite, but definitely burnt and crispy on the top. You must then leave them to cool down a little and then spread a big dollop of cold butter across the top. The butter should never melt through the crumpet.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 14, 2019, 07:19:38 PM
Fuck, I thought we’d been bought out again.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: IFWaters on May 14, 2019, 07:29:05 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rodders on May 14, 2019, 07:56:27 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.

I think my next baking effort will be some tatty scones for SJM as a reward for the hat trick he's going to score tonight!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 14, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
Top work! (and yes re butter and Marmite though I don't mind just butter) though they're good with peanut butter too...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 15, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Speaking of crumpet, Mallory's changed her location to Birmingham and posted a nice pic in the VP tunnel with the caption "Off to Wembley like #UTV". Think she's warming to us.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on May 15, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on May 15, 2019, 09:24:13 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?

Defo purchase a crumpet ring as an investment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 15, 2019, 10:06:49 PM
I want to read about investment here ... can’t u lot start a cooking thread !?

Defo purchase a crumpet ring as an investment.

They're all crumpet rings once I've had a go...self censoring. Not appropriate.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on May 15, 2019, 10:27:50 PM
I have to say, the last few crumpet-related pages are probably the most british thing that i've ever experienced.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on May 15, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
This thread...

Abe Simpson gif. springs to mind.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on May 15, 2019, 10:35:32 PM
Right. I have knocked up a batch of batter.

For the avoidance of doubt, the pikelets - pyglyd (pitchy bread) - or "poor man's crumpets" (so called because the making of pikelets infers that one isn't well orf enough to own a crumpet ring - are the freeform items going crisp around the edges on the outside. Absolutely textbook.

The crumpet is in the ring and is a crumpet.

I'm cooking them on buttered greaseproof direct on the slow ring of the Aga. That's how we roll in the Shires - and anyway, the servants are away and I haven't a clue how the washing up works.


(https://i.ibb.co/QHKz1z4/DSCN0414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHKz1z4)


(https://i.ibb.co/vwqKRfb/DSCN0416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwqKRfb)


(https://i.ibb.co/VWQzfJs/DSCN0417.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWQzfJs)


I will be eating them with butter and Golden Syrup.

Fuck The Albion.

Get a stall and sell them outside the Trinity.

I think my next baking effort will be some tatty scones for SJM as a reward for the hat trick he's going to score tonight!
A potato cake is a fantastic accompliament to a full English. Fuck you derby.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on May 15, 2019, 10:38:07 PM
Fuck me, I've wondered in to Celebrity Bake-off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 15, 2019, 10:56:15 PM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on May 15, 2019, 11:02:11 PM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
Salty?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on May 15, 2019, 11:27:38 PM
Yeah.  Who wouldn't want to get financial advice or moral guidelines from Leedzzz.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 16, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
90 minutes between us and the bank vault door being ripped off.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on May 16, 2019, 12:51:03 AM
It’s amazing how many FFP experts there are. Especially considering how complicated finance is and how much information is available.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hillbilly on May 16, 2019, 01:55:28 AM
Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?

"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.

Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.

And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."
That's from a commenter called Vastariner, a Bluenose who piles in on any Villa related article. I think he drafts his anti-Villa screed on the wall of his basement in cat blood before posting on the Guardian.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 16, 2019, 09:19:12 AM
That's from a commenter called Vastariner, a Bluenose who piles in on any Villa related article. I think he drafts his anti-Villa screed on the wall of his basement in cat blood before posting on the Guardian.
Maybe so but is there any truth in it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on May 16, 2019, 09:25:34 AM
I’d imagine that the renaming of the training ground was done to ‘help’ with FFP as otherwise there wouldn’t have been much point. It may even have been done twice as the Recon logos no longer appear anywhere in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on May 16, 2019, 10:34:12 AM

Someone on the Leeds post-match thread on the Graun has posted this, any truth to it?


"The richest match in world football. And this year the most repellent.


Two teams who both cheated the profit and sustainability rules and whom the EFL didn’t have the balls even to question. One by running up losses of £130m in three years and brushing it off with things like selling the naming rights to the training ground (to themselves) and doubling the youth programme costs; the other by selling the ground to the owner for double market value and renting it back for a yield lower than a gilt.


And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations."


It's the burblings of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about:


Taking the issues in order:


Derby selling their ground to their owner.  As I said at the time, this "sale and leaseback" type agreement is standard business practice.  It's not a cheat, or a way around the rules.  Derby now no longer own their ground, and that has real, lasting implications.  As long as the transaction was at market rates, which it must be to satisfy FFP, it's a perfectly sesnible thing to do.


Doubling youth programme costs - so what?  These are ignored for FFP calculations anyway, so it doesn't matter if it's £1 or £100m


"And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations". Total bollocks, most football clubs have more than one company in the group, and produce consolidated accounts that basically accumulate all the profits and losses from all associated companies.  There's no way of hiding expenditure in the way they're describing.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 16, 2019, 10:41:48 AM



It's the burblings of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about:


Taking the issues in order:


Derby selling their ground to their owner.  As I said at the time, this "sale and leaseback" type agreement is standard business practice.  It's not a cheat, or a way around the rules.  Derby now no longer own their ground, and that has real, lasting implications.  As long as the transaction was at market rates, which it must be to satisfy FFP, it's a perfectly sesnible thing to do.


Doubling youth programme costs - so what?  These are ignored for FFP calculations anyway, so it doesn't matter if it's £1 or £100m


"And both disguised losses by hiving staff off to separate companies so the costs of wages did not fall on the football operations". Total bollocks, most football clubs have more than one company in the group, and produce consolidated accounts that basically accumulate all the profits and losses from all associated companies.  There's no way of hiding expenditure in the way they're describing.
Now this is what I was after.  Ta very much like.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Dazvillain on July 09, 2019, 04:05:41 PM
Companies house docs show our superb owners have injected yet another £30million  into club via share issue.
41,666,667 shares at £1each injected. Currently only 72% of the value has been paid at the time of issue with a value of just over £30 million.
The remaining 28p in the pound, or 11.7 million can be called at anytime by the club.

Who knows what it’s intended for .....additional for Webster and Phillips ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 09, 2019, 04:20:14 PM
The investment they have made into our club has saved us from God knows what outcome. However they are both businessmen so where and when will the return on their investment happen ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 09, 2019, 04:22:41 PM
If we stay in the PL and sell players on at a profit, we will start to turn one.  A few PL clubs now are in profit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on July 09, 2019, 04:24:25 PM
The investment they have made into our club has saved us from God knows what outcome. However they are both businessmen so where and when will the return on their investment happen ?
Hopefully when this great football club is competing in the Champions League - dare we dream?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 09, 2019, 04:31:56 PM
If we stay in the PL and sell players on at a profit, we will start to turn one.  A few PL clubs now are in profit.

Just can’t cut too deep. Southampton were the model for this and now more recently Palace and Leicester seem to doing a great job of finding modestly priced talent and turning a massive profit. But as Southampton showed of you don’t reinvest in quality you can quickly sink and they may be a solid candidate for relegation this season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 09, 2019, 08:33:12 PM
For a number of years Wimbledon were the experts at buying low, getting a few good years out of players and then selling high and pocketing a profit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 13, 2019, 09:05:27 PM


Talks about us a bit the last minute or so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 13, 2019, 09:11:46 PM
Who’s the interviewer? Back in the Premiership? Great game against Leeds? Pillock
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 13, 2019, 09:13:58 PM
I'm basically taking that as a guarantee that we win the league in five years.

Can't bloody wait. 😊
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: olaftab on July 13, 2019, 09:20:32 PM
Impressed with Wes there.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 13, 2019, 09:20:39 PM
Who’s the interviewer? Back in the Premiership? Great game against Leeds? Pillock

Thought the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 13, 2019, 09:22:49 PM
Lerner was as successful in his sport club ownership in the States as he was at Villa.  It would be good if Edens does the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 13, 2019, 09:25:28 PM
He's a world away from the Trust Fund Man Baby isn't he? Or Mr Salt in your Takeaway salesman.

Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 13, 2019, 09:33:18 PM
I'm basically taking that as a guarantee that we win the league in five years.

Can't bloody wait. 😊

He basically promised it, right?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 13, 2019, 10:09:20 PM
Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.

His company have had to sell all their buildings to meet Financial Fair Play rules.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 13, 2019, 10:12:22 PM
Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.

His company have had to sell all their buildings to meet Financial Fair Play rules.


He is a proper Viler now and lives out in the shires like all the rest of us. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 13, 2019, 10:37:11 PM
Not uncommon to do business interviews outside over here.
A very smart guy who knows his stuff.
Impressive.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on July 13, 2019, 10:39:00 PM
There's a few vids on youtube of Wes talking about business and starts talking about Villa on them for 3-4 minutes...decent watch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tuscans on July 13, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 13, 2019, 10:42:56 PM


Talks about us a bit the last minute or so.

Another interview, more questions. Does he have any money?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Des Little on July 13, 2019, 11:16:57 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 12:18:18 AM
He was certainly calceologically challenged.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 14, 2019, 12:44:32 AM
He's a world away from the Trust Fund Man Baby isn't he? Or Mr Salt in your Takeaway salesman.

Why on earth are they interviewing in the countryside? I thought it was a greenscreen at first. Odd.
Yes he does thankfully look as if he knows  his arse from his elbow.  Great description of Lerner.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 12:23:10 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 14, 2019, 12:48:52 PM
Assuming those are US billions (ie each is worth a thousand million), the equivalent expenditure out a million quid would be five grand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 14, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

Stolen.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 14, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?
I think your answer is 5 grand but i'm no accountant
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: andyh on July 14, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

Stolen.
Very good
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Bad English on July 14, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
£5000
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 12:52:52 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 14, 2019, 01:11:24 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Right Lee. I have got my bank statement and calculator out and I can afford to plough in £4.27...Get the contact sorted and we are ready to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 01:35:17 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Right Lee. I have got my bank statement and calculator out and I can afford to plough in £4.27...Get the contact sorted and we are ready to go.

Ok, well bring your boots, you're sub for 4 weeks for that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 02:16:18 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.


Ten out of ten to him for diplomacy. I would love to go out with him, get him drunk and hear him say exactly what he thought of Dr T and the situation NSWE inherited.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 04:53:04 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Off topic Lee but, could you give me some background on Adam Dauncey please?  My reason for asking is due to the fact that an Adam Dauncey was in the same class as my daughter when they started school at the Holy Name Great Barr, they were pictured in the Mail on their first day at school.  I'm not sure but I think he lived on Hampstead Road.  Cups named after individuals are usually memorial trophies aren't they?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 05:22:27 PM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Off topic Lee but, could you give me some background on Adam Dauncey please?  My reason for asking is due to the fact that an Adam Dauncey was in the same class as my daughter when they started school at the Holy Name Great Barr, they were pictured in the Mail on their first day at school.  I'm not sure but I think he lived on Hampstead Road.  Cups named after individuals are usually memorial trophies aren't they?

You're right in respect of them being memorial, but other than that I don't know anything regarding the history of it other than I sliced an own goal into the top corner the last time I played in it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
Thanks anyway Lee, if you do find anything out, you might let me know.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 06:00:17 PM
No worries Dave, I'll ask the question at the next league meeting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 15, 2019, 03:08:39 PM


There’s a line for you. ‘The former owner had some challenges’

Didn’t he just.

😂 Made me laugh.

Lionel Messi, he scored some goals.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: stubbsyandy on July 16, 2019, 09:59:59 AM
So here is a question for the accountants of the parish...The Nassef family is reported worth £40 billion. Suppose he invests £200m in the villa. Say I have £1m in the bank. What would my equivalent investment be ?

If you get your hand in your pocket and invest that in my Sunday team I guarantee I'd return you the Sutton Sunday league title within two seasons. And the Adam Dauncey Cup for good measure.

Aah the Sutton Sunday league, great memories from the 80’s
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 23, 2019, 10:17:17 AM
Swaris fortune has increased by approximately one Randy Lerner in the past few months. He's added $1.5bn onto his lot.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 23, 2019, 11:22:29 AM
Will come in useful in January when we sign Neymar.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 23, 2019, 11:56:37 AM
Where's this, Forbes?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 23, 2019, 12:33:26 PM
Where's this, Forbes?


No, not Forbes. It was posted by Ads  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 25, 2019, 03:23:19 PM
I'm really enjoying the investment. Thank you Wes and Nassef.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 25, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
I'm really enjoying the investment. Thank you Wes and Nassef.

And me, beyond my wildest dreams and quality as well
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 11:55:56 AM
I wonder if their planning in only doing some exterior tarting up  to the North Stand is because they want to tackle the question of upgraded facilities, higher capacity and potentially whole new ground (which might mean new location) properly rather than invest a very large sum in rebuilding the stand now?

Is this a ticking-over measure to buy us time to think more about it, and get a better idea of what we really need?

Have to say, that new Everton ground looks like exactly what I'd want us to have if we had a new ground. The combination of brick and steel is brilliant and evocative of old grounds.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 12:06:07 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 27, 2019, 12:08:17 PM
I don’t want a new ground just make the one we got bigger and better thanks
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
The facilities in the Trinity Rd are not too bad, and i haven't been in the Holte since it was rebuilt so have no idea, but the other two stands have truly dreadful facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 27, 2019, 12:12:45 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Yes, The Trinity is decent enough, but the other three all leave an awful lot to be desired.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 12:15:27 PM
The upper Trinity Road concourse (particularly at half time) is shockingly bad.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 27, 2019, 12:34:15 PM
Public transport is free in Oz (Brisbane anyway) with a match ticket across the board, Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Cricket. Works really well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: clash city rocker on July 27, 2019, 01:03:33 PM
Public transport is free in Oz (Brisbane anyway) with a match ticket across the board, Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union and Cricket. Works really well.

This is England.  We dont do joined up thinking.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 01:08:54 PM
The facilities in the Trinity Rd are not too bad, and i haven't been in the Holte since it was rebuilt so have no idea, but the other two stands have truly dreadful facilities.

The Upper Holte is very good. Lage space and over two decks too.

The North needs to go and so does the Witton. I hate the comments I read from away fans about how poor the upper Witton is. It's not what Villa Park should be about.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The Witton is absolutely awful. So cramped. It's like being at a match in the 70s.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 27, 2019, 01:18:45 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.

Went to Berlin in May and yes there was free travel to the ground
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:20:31 PM
I could live with us moving somewhere with better public transport links and facilities, so long as it was still a proper part of the city and not on some retail park somewhere in the middle of nowhere like Bolton's ground. I'd rather just stay at Villa Park, expand to fifty and maybe eventually sixty thousand, working with the council and transport companies to ensure improving travel links. Not quite sure how you do that but sure a grown up could work it out. For a start, I hear that German fans get free public transport if they have a match ticket. How can we get the same? That would encourage plenty of people off the roads.

Their public transport is probably publicly owned which would make these things easier, rather than our hideous mish mash of different companies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 01:21:48 PM
If things progress well a new stadium versus redevelopment to take full advantage of modern commercial opportunities maybe the better option. So many more complications in trying to update Villa Park with inconveniences to the surrounding environment and community. So given what Spurs have done, Everton/Liverpool etc will do maybe build a new Villa Park if land exists not too far away to help keep up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 01:21:50 PM
I dunno tbh. What about Australia, then? That can't be publicly owned, the Aussies make Little Englanders seem like rabid Communists.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:28:46 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:31:08 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 01:32:57 PM
If things progress well a new stadium versus redevelopment to take full advantage of modern commercial opportunities maybe the better option. So many more complications in trying to update Villa Park with inconveniences to the surrounding environment and community. So given what Spurs have done, Everton/Liverpool etc will do maybe build a new Villa Park if land exists not too far away to help keep up.

Perry Barr Park seems a good place to build  8)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 01:34:41 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

Would we not be more likely to be part of the Advanced Manufacturing Hub masterplan which is on our doorstep?

People also seem to be forgetting we’ve committed to the Commonwealth Games in 2022 so nothing will happen before then in my view. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 27, 2019, 01:38:17 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

The land would be too expensive and not big enough.  It is also earmarked for development under the 'Big City Plan'.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 01:41:54 PM
Having a 55,000 seater there would be absolutely iconic and surely fit any plan? Size of proposed site notwithstanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:42:48 PM
Yes that new Everton ground looks like it will be brilliant.  I know that Villa Park is home, but if you think that most of the stands and facilities are actully pretty shit, I wouldn't be averse to a shiny new ground at all, as long as it wasn't a bland identikit effort like Stoke for example.

Most of the stands and facilities aren't shit...

One stand could do with bulldozing and another needs improving, but that's par for the course for traditional grounds. I wouldn't ever want us to move out of Villa Park, and as we're not hemmed in and prevented from developing, we've no reason to.

The North Stand is dire, and there's no leg room in the Witton for anybody over 5'4" tall.  The half time catering is terrible just about everywhere, and the congestion and lack of parking nearby is pretty problematic as well.  And of course we're hemmed in on the Trinity and Witton sides, so the North Stand is the only one that could really be redeveloped to give us a 50,000 capacity, unless we fill in the corners, which would be difficult, and would look shit.

I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

The land would be too expensive and not big enough.  It is also earmarked for development under the 'Big City Plan'.

The plot is absolutely huge, size wouldn't be the problem, it'd be whether a stadium could be part of the plan (it is all indicative at the moment anyway)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:43:03 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 01:46:07 PM
The problem with that is only Birmingham City fans live in Birmingham. At least so we’ve been told.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:51:32 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:51:42 PM
One thing that Brum doesn't seem to be short of is, is land that looks like it would benefit from a lot of redevelopment.  That whole Smithfield area at the back of the Bull Ring is a right eyesore.  That would be a great spot, 10-15 minute walk from New Street, you could have decent parking facilities, a fans' village for catering choices, etc etc.  I love going to Vill Park as much as anybody, but in terms of the 'experience' (not including the actual football) it's a bit rubbish. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 01:52:47 PM
appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town

Same as Birmingham then! :)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 01:55:28 PM
One thing that Brum doesn't seem to be short of is, is land that looks like it would benefit from a lot of redevelopment.  That whole Smithfield area at the back of the Bull Ring is a right eyesore.  That would be a great spot, 10-15 minute walk from New Street, you could have decent parking facilities, a fans' village for catering choices, etc etc.  I love going to Vill Park as much as anybody, but in terms of the 'experience' (not including the actual football) it's a bit rubbish. 

That is the bit of land we were talking about - it has been (is being) totally cleared, and is a huge 17 hectare (one football pitch is about 0.65 hectares, I've just googled!) space which is specifically earmarked for cultural attractions (and flats, obviously).

They've just appointed a list of architects to draw up the entire masterplan, it's a truly huge project.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 27, 2019, 02:12:46 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Nice and quiet then when they are at home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 02:14:56 PM
I think it would be something pretty special and really add to the city centre. It's far more likely to attract tourist dollar during the week too. Bars, museum and a hotel on that site, with the amount of foreign shopping tourists and visitors we get would drastically improve our commercial revenue.

Improved facilities and the chance for a monstrous single tiered Holte.

Bring on modernity.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2019, 02:17:55 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
must have been pretty quiet last year then. :) Damn-BV beat me to it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 02:19:16 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 02:19:53 PM
I also think when people discuss whether or not we need a bigger ground, they look at it in terms of number of seats and overlook the much improved facilities that would create, and the extra revenue flow that comes with it.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if we ended up in a ground on that Smithfield market site in the city centre. The timeframes for the development would fit in with our growing requirements.

I'd love something that was close to the City Centre. Going to St James Park is such a piece of piss if you get the train to Newcastle, it's great being able to drink in the city centre then just stroll a few steps to the ground.

A lot of traditional grounds are/were a pain in the arse to get to (Liverpool, Everton, Man U, Spurs etc), with the only alternatives being bland new grounds tacked on to the sides of retail/industrial parks (Bolton, Wigan, Stoke etc) with the main facilities of town being a reasonable distance away.

I was a student up in Newcastle and having the ground in the city centre really has an impact on bringing club and people together- appreciate it's different as Newcastle is a one club town, but walking around the city centre while they were playing, you'd hear the roar of every goal.
Nice and quiet then when they are at home.

It was in the late 80s, so they indeed were absolutely abject, not that much noise created.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: kipeye on July 27, 2019, 02:20:39 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 02:20:43 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 02:36:29 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.

It's the infrastructure and transport requirements that make me wonder if they'd just look at moving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 02:38:31 PM
I don't think there's any way we can do a proper redevelopment of the current site, and stay there while we're doing it. As has been said, spacewise there's not much, if anything, we could do with the Trinity or Witton Lane that could improve them within their existing footprints. What we've got is pretty much all you can squeeze out of them.

I've said before that I think the only way we can build a bells and whistles ground where we are would have to mean rejigging the space and moving the pitch. But then, where do we go in the meantime? Wembley?

Add me to the list of Movers.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on July 27, 2019, 02:39:39 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 02:43:20 PM
I'd like to see both options before picking. Render of new build, render of redeveloped current site.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 02:51:51 PM
We could have one of the biggest and busiest train stations in the country within easy walking distance.

The Noses having to trudge past it when they journey to their hovel would be just an amusing bonus.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 27, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.

Never in 2 million years
Add me to the "Remainers"
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 27, 2019, 02:59:36 PM
Been 20 years or so since the last redevelopment so we do need to get a move on imo. We are being left behind.

I would support a new Villa Park, I'd rather redevelop the current site if possible though.
Same. The whole area around VP would benefit from re-development and would need proper transport and infrastructure to go with it.

It's the infrastructure and transport requirements that make me wonder if they'd just look at moving.

That’s what I was alluding to. Give the massive amount of grief it would cause to the surrounding community, the planning complications, traffic flow disaster etc. are we not just better finding an open spot and doing it right for the long term future of the club. And it won’t have escaped NSWE’s attention the new stadiums that have popped up and will be popping up. As much as we all love Villa Park it’s hard for it to compete in the modern game vs the revenues that these stadia drive. I would much rather for that reason build a 55000 seat stadium vs keep cramming people into our current ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
We're all getting ahead of ourselves, but...you hear Wes speak about his own business plans and Sawiris adding $1.5bn so far this year...with the money spent they really do seem beyond the real deal.

If the ultimate aim is to compete with the top 6, then we need the facilities and revenue to match.

Would a 55,000 Villa Park in B6 allow us to do that? Or would a 55,000 in B4 be better suited?

I'm all for history being an inspiration and not an anchor.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 27, 2019, 03:31:55 PM
I’m warming to the idea of a new ground.

Never in a million years. We have everything we need where we are with room to expand the North Stand when needed.

Not many football grounds even have two train stations in walking distance either.

Never in 2 million years
Add me to the "Remainers"

Remainers and Leavers 😂😂😂

Not sure how I am voting.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 27, 2019, 03:34:06 PM
A big part of me would hate to leave VP but then I think that the Holy Trinity that made us the greatest club in the world wouldn't have hesitated to leave if they believed it was what the club needed to progress.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 03:50:27 PM
A big part of me would hate to leave VP but then I think that the Holy Trinity that made us the greatest club in the world wouldn't have hesitated to leave if they believed it was what the club needed to progress.

This. The only difficulty being would they have moved out of Aston to do it?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 03:51:17 PM
They had no problem moving us to Perry Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 27, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.

Nope we’re hosting the Rugby 7s as part of the games so we can’t do anything.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 27, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.

Nope we’re hosting the Rugby 7s as part of the games so we can’t do anything.

I'm sure I read that's not a definite.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 04:00:37 PM
I'd be very disappointed if Villa Park wasn't part of the biggest event Birmingham has ever hosted. I'm still annoyed that the idiotic previous incumbent managed to lose us the Olympic football to that plastic rugby ground outside Coventry.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 27, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
I meant using it afterwards.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 04:56:59 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.

Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 04:57:22 PM
If we are going to upgrade VP then the Commonwealth games stadium could be our home for 12 months.
I’ve suggested this before too and agree with you. Apparently it’s going to be a 40,000 seater stadium so could be a temporary home whilst Villa Park receives a full modern rebuild. Makes perfect sense to me and keeps everyone happy.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.


Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.


Would it bollocks!!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 05:27:04 PM
It's a no from me for any suggestion of moving from Villa Park permanently. We're not landlocked. And the increase in capacity we (may) need in future can be achieved where we are. Before you even get into the history of the location.  I never heard much of this sort of talk before Tottingham's super duper new stadium came along. And those kind of soulless Odromo Bowls leave me cold. Twats munching on hotdogs watching the match on big screens in the concourses rather than in the stands.  Fuck that right off.

But if we're using Australia as an example - if a large, modern, municipal stadium was built near the city centre - I wouldn't be against the odd big high profile game being held there, as certain sides do in Melbourne.  Could be used by SHA as well ... (actually, no. As they'll never get the numbers. Wolves then).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: eamonn on July 27, 2019, 05:36:40 PM
I'd feel very uneasy about leaving VP. In an age where we are blessed to have a captain and manager who are local and love the club - Gareth Bale deciding to retire early in China for a million quid a week putting modern players' motivation in stark terms; a traditional, much-loved ground is one of the few things that helps anchor a club's identity.

Players and staff come and go. Apart from the supporters what else does a club have to show for its continued existence?  A ground as storied as Villa Park is too important to consign to the past especially if it's practical to do the refurb we require.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 05:45:01 PM
The other possible benefit of a shared/ municipal ground is it wouldn't feel so bad getting dicked by Yanited and the other sugarbags in what would essentially be a neutral venue. Rather than having their mutant fans taking the piss at their favourite away ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 05:47:21 PM
I want more than a redeveloped North Stand. As someone prepared to part with my hard-earned disposable at the home of the club I love, my experience of trying to do that in the two bits of the ground I use these days are
Lower Holte, useable pre-match, miss 10 minutes of the game at half time
Upper Trinity, I'm starting to be consumed by dread that there'll be more than three dozen of us trying to use it this season.

It's customer service from another era.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 05:51:24 PM
I'd feel very uneasy about leaving VP. In an age where we are blessed to have a captain and manager who are local and love the club - Gareth Bale deciding to retire early in China for a million quid a week putting modern players' motivation in stark terms; a traditional, much-loved ground is one of the few things that helps anchor a club's identity.

Players and staff come and go. Apart from the supporters what else does a club have to show for its continued existence?  A ground as storied as Villa Park is too important to consign to the past especially if it's practical to do the refurb we require.

I don't disagree. I'd only be in favour of moving if we were unable to expand Villa Park sufficiently. Then I would move, reluctantly. Rather do that then prevent thousands of fans who want to attend from doing so.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
The Witton needs to go with the North as well and there would need to be investment in up scaling facilities in the other two and improving transportation infrastructure around Villa Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 06:02:41 PM
Still a no from me, don't fancy a year watching ants from behind a running track.

Start work after the last home game and get it done for the start of the next season, requesting starting the season with back to back away games if required.

That would be enough to sort one stand out.


Do the same with the other stand the year after.

Would have to be next summer and the summer of 2021, let's have the ground looking as great as possible when Birmingham hosts the Britishempirewerentallbastardshonest Games.


Would it bollocks!!

Indeed

There's no chance whatsoever a stand gets knocked down and rebuilt in the close season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
I'm not as invested in this as some, being as how I rarely get to games these days, but if a new stadium could be built that moves the club and the city forward I'd be all for it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 27, 2019, 06:04:33 PM
It's happened before, hasn't it? Maybe have reduced capacity for a month or two.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 27, 2019, 06:28:55 PM
The only way to increase the capacity significantly at Villa Park would be to build behind the North Stand.  Start with an upper tier, demolish the existing stand and then build the lower tier. Then move the pitch 10m or so away from the Holte End.  This would then allow some redevelopment of the corners and look at some alteration to the lower tier of the Holte End.  There is space in and around the ground to improve refreshment facilities/toilets etc but it would be costly compared with revenue.  However, adding 10-15,000 to the capacity would need massive upgrade of the facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 06:43:48 PM
It's happened before, hasn't it? Maybe have reduced capacity for a month or two.


The unsophisticated Holte took until December. And if we do that with the North, we'll have wedged ourselves into a corner we can't get out of. We shall be forever trapped in the fork of Trinity Road and Witton Lane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 27, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Interesting to see so many people open to the idea of a move. I always thought there would be much more resistance to the idea.

I would be open to the idea if it was done right but in truth, a full analysis would be needed which we probably wouldn't have access to.

I think there's potential to move to the Games' stadium whilst major reconstruction work was done but for me, a big part of the study would have to include the surrounding area and the roads. I doubt much has changed in decades despite the big increase in traffic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 27, 2019, 06:54:57 PM
I think a lot of the lack of openness to a move in the past was in no small part down to the only option seemingly being the NEC.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Tayls_7 on July 27, 2019, 07:08:50 PM
Can I still be closed? Think moving would be dogwank.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 07:16:27 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 07:35:38 PM
B-lose should be irrelevant to any forward planning by our club.

That close to the city centre and they've never been much of a draw or had any solid period eclipsing what we do on the pitch.  Even in the Premier League, that city centre proximity didn't seem to attract the floating voter for them. And It's not as if we are a million miles away from the CC ourselves.

There's a better than average chance they'll be a League One side this time next year.  I wouldn't be advocating watching what Rotherham or Coventry do all that closely either.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 08:01:47 PM
B-lose should be irrelevant to any forward planning by our club.


I agree. Just a happy consequence.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 08:05:01 PM
The shape of the plot of land is the problem and shows that we are landlocked and very limited in what we can do. Compare it to Sunderland (which is the minimum extra capacity we'd be looking at):

(https://i.ibb.co/hDj4ZJV/Villa-park.png) (https://ibb.co/hDj4ZJV)

Personally I don't see how you add 7000 without either negotiating moving roads or building something insane to replace the north stand but with the latter you still end up with no car parking facilities, no decent road links and you haven't addressed the awful state of the DE stand. the SoL, on the other hand, has it's own light rail station (slightly off to the right from that map), is next to one of the major spine roads out of the city centre and is 5 minutes over the bridge from said city centre.


They moved from a well loved traditional ground that was clearly no longer fit for purpose because they struggled with many of the same issues we have and whilst they've had a terrible time on the pitch you rarely hear any complaints about the stadium or access to it.


I don't know if moving is the best idea but I would say that if we don't there's not a whole lot we can expect to see in terms of improvements without some massive changes.


I have, in the past, wondered whether you could fit a 60k stadium on the Martineau Galleries plot though, sadly you can't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
They are irrelevant, but a stadium in that location taking inthe city centre spread would be an ultimate monument to their absolute and total inferiority.

The spread of pubs, transport and foot traffic would make New Villa Park very attractive and give us the chance to drive up that commercial revenue on non-match days as well  to compete.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2019, 08:09:57 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 27, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

Yeah but don't forget, most of them are on mobility scooters

*nods*
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 27, 2019, 08:21:27 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

Not twenty minutes I don’t think. Digbeth Dining Club to the Forge Tavern, 5 minutes, then maybe 5-10 to the ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 27, 2019, 08:22:13 PM
Imagine town though. A few minutes walk from New Street, Moor Street, HS2 and hundreds of bus stops, taxis and the tram. The only thing I’ve ever been jealous of with small heath is that they can drink in Digbeth moments before and after the game. Plus the only noticeable b-lose areas are those with good transport links to the Sty. A Villa stadium at Smithfield would all but destroy them over time. So it’s a thumbs up from me.

It doesn't really feel that close in reality though does it?  Other side of the ring road, and must be a good twenty plus minute walk to the main bits of Digbeth.

It would make a few of the Digbeh pubs Villa pubs though. Which would be highly amusing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 27, 2019, 08:27:19 PM
I’d rather we stay where we are for purely historic reasons, but I have no emotional attachment to any of the 4 stands since both the Holte and Trinity were rebuilt.

In these modern times where Birmingham City Council are planning to nuke Perry Barr and the flyover, is it not realistic that the Trinity Road could cease to be a road and a large investment into the area to enable a full rebuild of Villa Park?

Trinity Road isn’t a main road and all traffic can continue from Perry Barr to Aston via Witton Lane, so if the road itself is taken out of equation then surely we’d have enough space to rebuild as a modern stadium?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 08:37:09 PM
I’d rather we stay where we are for purely historic reasons, but I have no emotional attachment to any of the 4 stands since both the Holte and Trinity were rebuilt.

In these modern times where Birmingham City Council are planning to nuke Perry Barr and the flyover, is it not realistic that the Trinity Road could cease to be a road and a large investment into the area to enable a full rebuild of Villa Park?

Trinity Road isn’t a main road and all traffic can continue from Perry Barr to Aston via Witton Lane, so if the road itself is taken out of equation then surely we’d have enough space to rebuild as a modern stadium?

You'd have to do a  full rebuild and get the council to agree to give up part of the park as well as the road. Even then you'd still be penned in by Nelson Road Unless the parea of park you took was massive and gave us the room to re-orientate with the pitch running almost perfectly north/south. We'd have something 18-24 months without a ground in that case as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on July 27, 2019, 08:38:43 PM
Be interesting to see what Tony's plans look like!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 27, 2019, 08:46:21 PM
I don't look at the Stadium of Light or the Riverside/ BT Hellnet whatever it's called and feel envious.

In fact it concerns me that Herbert Douglas Ellis in his dotage looked at those monstrosities and decided we needed a bit of that for the outside of the new Trinity.

I don't know how practical it would be (I believe there used to be a lake at the Aston Lower Grounds close to the land we now play on) but I have always wondered at the possibility of building down rather than up.  The lower tiers of the Nou Camp, Bernabeu are set below street level and add to the impact when you step in. Think Porto's old ground had that as well.

Would still allow us to have four distinctive stands and reap the benefits of the extra capacity - particularly if safe standing ever truly becomes a thing.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: algy on July 27, 2019, 09:20:47 PM
Until this summer I'd say a big "no" to moving from Villa Park. But to hell with it, if we want to be a big time club then we need to act like a big time club.

Brand new, purpose built ground in the city centre. Keep the feel of Villa Park, in particular keep the exterior style of the old trinity road stand / new Holte End. Make it a trademark as it were. The stately home of football and all that.

But also where you see (or walk past) The Bullring, HS2, all that stuff to get to the ground. Make sure everyone knows (a) we're a big deal in football terms and (b) we're the biggest thing in Birmingham. Not the biggest football club. Not the biggest stadium. Villa Park being as iconic a landmark as the Bullring, the thing you associate the whole city with.

You just can't do the absolute domination of the entire country from B6. As was said earlier, there's no way Ramsey, McGregor and Rinder would turn down the chance to move to the city centre right now.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ger Regan on July 27, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 10:07:40 PM
I don't look at the Stadium of Light or the Riverside/ BT Hellnet whatever it's called and feel envious.

In fact it concerns me that Herbert Douglas Ellis in his dotage looked at those monstrosities and decided we needed a bit of that for the outside of the new Trinity.

I don't know how practical it would be (I believe there used to be a lake at the Aston Lower Grounds close to the land we now play on) but I have always wondered at the possibility of building down rather than up.  The lower tiers of the Nou Camp, Bernabeu are set below street level and add to the impact when you step in. Think Porto's old ground had that as well.

Would still allow us to have four distinctive stands and reap the benefits of the extra capacity - particularly if safe standing ever truly becomes a thing.

It's not about being envious, it's about having the space to have a modern stadium. It's a great example because Roker Park, whilst not as big as Villa park, was a storied old ground which had seen the club win trophies but it was built at a time when most fans visited by foot so being in amongst the houses was great and a lack of facilities didn't matter and space to expand wasn't a consideration. I know lots of fans up there and I don't know anyone who, within a year or 2, thought they'd made a mistake by moving.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 28, 2019, 11:12:50 AM
Just seen this thread. If they need to redevelop VP they can do, Atleast 2 stands could by bulldozed and replaced IMO.

 But it would be unthinkable to me that we moved from VP. It's our home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Border villan on July 28, 2019, 11:19:29 AM
It is our home, but has not always been. Difficult as a move would be for all of us who have spent decades going to Villa Park and are used/resigned to the present ground we should consider those who will follow on from us in the next 140+ years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 28, 2019, 11:36:14 AM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?

I agree to an extent.  There is a difference though, even during the early Lerner years we were not signing bums on seats players or playing bums on seats progressive football.  We now have everything in place - owners/investment, Chief Exec, coaching team, scouting team, PL status, TV wonga - to do that and build on it, which is why I think many fans are more excited and optimistic than in the Lerner years.  Plus we've been outside the "promised land"for three years and the appetite has grown.  The effect might wear off if we don't do well, it might not. 

As for VP I'd prefer to develop where we are.  From inside, the ground looks pretty good and replacing the North stand with a whopping great bank would make it look even better.  There is  plenty of space to do that and take us up to 50k.  The issues for me are the facilities and space within the existing stands.  They are a classic case of Doug having the right ideas but then trying to implement them on the cheap.

Whether we've got the space to improve and expand those is another question.  There are "right to light" issues behind the Witton Lane, the Holte is boxed in, and one end of the Trinity is limited for space.  Surely the Trinity Road could be built over again like we already have, or slightly diverted a little further into the park? 

As for transport links, a decent train service would solve a lot of issues.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AV82EC on July 28, 2019, 11:54:00 AM
I want more than a redeveloped North Stand. As someone prepared to part with my hard-earned disposable at the home of the club I love, my experience of trying to do that in the two bits of the ground I use these days are
Lower Holte, useable pre-match, miss 10 minutes of the game at half time
Upper Trinity, I'm starting to be consumed by dread that there'll be more than three dozen of us trying to use it this season.

It's customer service from another era.

I’ve gone Upper Trinity this season and after my experiences of last season I’ve decided I will be drinking away from the ground and arriving at the last possible moment. Despite a bit of extra room it’s as bad as the Upper Witton Lane.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
Anfield overcame a similar problem to that faced at Villa Park; in a triangle and bordered by terraced streets. If we could buy the land/houses behind Witton Lane we could increase there and at the Witton End. It's pretty immaterial though as we haven't yet developed the need for a bigger stadium.

The Commonwealth Games stadium is a non-starter I reckon. Apart from being designed for athletics, so miles from the pitch, the extended capacity is open temporary seats. Lovely in January.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
Anfield overcame a similar problem to that faced at Villa Park; in a triangle and bordered by terraced streets. If we could buy the land/houses behind Witton Lane we could increase there and at the Witton End. It's pretty immaterial though as we haven't yet developed the need for a bigger stadium.

The Commonwealth Games stadium is a non-starter I reckon. Apart from being designed for athletics, so miles from the pitch, the extended capacity is open temporary seats. Lovely in January.

West Ham arguably didn't need a bigger stadium, yet last year they averaged a crowd of 58,000.  7 clubs now have a stadium that holds 50 thousand or more, it's time we had one as well.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 02:17:39 PM
I'd love us to be able to justify that kind of outlay and fill the bugger. It's a leap to suggest Stratford FC has done it so we can too, but you could be right. I think we're a club that's just been promoted, splurged on exciting but unknown quantities, had a good pre-season and are now in danger of extrapolating to Wolves levels, but I'd like more than anything for all this hope and optimism to be proven understated.

Thankfully I don't have to make the decision.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 02:39:51 PM
I get the argument that this is getting ahead of ourselves but the Liverpool example took years and even moving would take a lot of work so I'd hope the club are having these discussions.

If we want to establishvourselves in the top half  of the league again we will need to massively increase our commercial revenues and a modern ground with far better facilities is a big part of that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 02:45:00 PM
Agree with all that.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 28, 2019, 02:55:35 PM
I would hate us to leave Villa Park.

However if we were to build a stadium at the NEC I could be there in less than ten minutes by car. ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 28, 2019, 03:16:19 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 28, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   

No, me neither. I'd hate us to leave.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 28, 2019, 03:31:10 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dean saunders left boot on July 28, 2019, 03:41:16 PM
Over 10 years ago I paid 50 quid for one of those pavers with my kids' names on it outside the Trinity. I'll expect a full refund when we move to our out of town Superdome.

Seriously though, there are people who have their relative's ashes scattered at Villa Park. Wonder how they might feel about their remains forming the foundations of a new Ikea or B&Q.

I'm really not interested in us moving.   

I've got one of those slabs, it was a 21st Birthday present, I love that my name is part of Villa Park, and would be devastated if it would be removed, or we moved ground
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 03:43:25 PM
I'd imagine the pavers could be moved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 03:43:44 PM
It was a wrench to leave the house where Samson, the hamster who died when I was 7, was buried.  But you know, I got over it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 03:51:53 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ktvillan on July 28, 2019, 03:55:42 PM
There's certainly been an "if you build it they will come" effect with West Ham moving to the Olympic Stadium.  They haven't pulled up any trees on the pitch either.  Everton seem confident they'll be able to fill a 50k seater at the docks.   I do think with us though a sustained period of relative success and entertaining football would be a good first step.  However the owners should certainly be looking at options and making plans for when the need becomes more obvious, if they haven't already done so.  Based on their record so far I'd hazard a guess they're already doing or have done at least some kind of feasibility study. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 28, 2019, 04:17:26 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!


Mine's much the same. I check on it now and then. Not much relief left in the lettering, but it looked like someone had touched it up with a marker last time I saw it.

Doug's gone. They'd be moved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 04:22:37 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere

Yeah VPexit Vexit Astexit, hmm I think B6exit could never happen. Could it?

Interestingly for the first time ever, surviving/competing at the top table might swing a lot of us to what even 5 years ago seemed utterly unacceptable, when even a name change was an abomination.

I’m in an unusual position of my name on my paver having been changed, but love that 3 gens of pavers are there...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Simon Page on July 28, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
Given the cost of new builds, I doubt we'd see much benefit to moving. Unless, of course, we're completely buggered for expanding.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: CT on July 28, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
I don’t think us remainers need to worry can’t see us going anywhere

Yeah VPexit Vexit Astexit, hmm I think B6exit could never happen. Could it?

Interestingly for the first time ever, surviving/competing at the top table might swing a lot of us to what even 5 years ago seemed utterly unacceptable, when even a name change was an abomination.

I’m in an unusual position of my name on my paver having been changed, but love that 3 gens of pavers are there...

I'm a remainer. I've told my Son I want my name on one of those bricks if I kick the bucket. Assuming you can still buy them of course.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 28, 2019, 04:46:16 PM
Given the cost of new builds, I doubt we'd see much benefit to moving. Unless, of course, we're completely buggered for expanding.

Commercial income would be another reason, but I guess they think they've got enough work to do on that for a while before the ground becomes a real problem.

I do strongly suspect the reason for the quick facelift of the North Stand is as a stopgap measure until they decide on a bigger plan, though
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TonyD on July 28, 2019, 04:55:27 PM
Rebuild the North Stand to add 7,000 and rebuild the Holte to what Dortmund have to add another 7,000 - job done.   And put 4 big AV floodlights on the corners of the roofs. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
Mines eroded that much you can’t read it!


Mine's much the same. I check on it now and then. Not much relief left in the lettering, but it looked like someone had touched it up with a marker last time I saw it.

Doug's gone. They'd be moved.



Mines eroded so much, only a couple of letters are recognisable.

But just like me, it wants to stay where it is
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 05:25:18 PM
Be interesting to see how much has actually been changed close season. Deep clean and some re-furbed boxes probably.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 05:40:13 PM
Rebuild the North Stand to add 7,000 and rebuild the Holte to what Dortmund have to add another 7,000 - job done.   And put 4 big AV floodlights on the corners of the roofs.

The Witton Lane Stand needs improving. The facilties are embarassing. If we are improving it we may as well expand it. Save the Holte expansion for if ever we need to go from fifty odd to sixty thousand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 28, 2019, 06:17:12 PM
It’s not just about adding seats. It’s so much more than that. The guts of our stands, the concourses, the service facilities, the toilets etc are dated. I’m sure they can be improved but it is limited to what extent. It’s the stuff you can’t see that needs upgrading as much as obvious stuff you can.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 06:57:23 PM
There is no reason we can’t do what Spurs have done, which would also include gig and NFL etc contracts? Given the Manc Clubs won’t be starting over with a stadium and Everton is a bit Far East, we’re surely the prime candidate to do what they have done. A massive redevelopment of B6 including infrastructure and stealing some parkland  in exchange for community access (or the City Centre idea). A year ago I’d not think it was sensible, but given the way things are hopefully shaping up, I don’t see how we can’t do one of the two within 5-10yrs?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 28, 2019, 07:08:20 PM
For me it would have to be the city centre, the markets area is obvious, but there could be an opportunity around constitution hill. which has lots of derelict building and empty plots.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 07:56:51 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2019, 08:04:24 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

This, this this this, this this, this, this.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 08:18:52 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 28, 2019, 08:28:21 PM
The soul of the club isn’t in anything material. It’s in us. We are the soul of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 08:34:02 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

Aston Villa, when we moved from Perry Barr.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: purpletrousers on July 28, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
Just watching video of Spurs ground (not been yet either & prob not enough aways to this year) and it’s clear it’s a different planet to parts of VP I know; we aren’t in this century and could well prepare for safe standing.

There is a debate when.
There is a debate where.
Is anyone against a complete build somewhere?

I’d aim for something very original, give Thomas Heatherwick a brief to honour what HDE destroyed, have at least part of the ground that honours mosaic, brick work, Leitch, maybe the biggest home end in the country all over again with a horse shoe around it or something.
Done right, and maybe regenerating B6 while we are at it, it wouldn’t be hard to end up with something so much better than we have.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 08:34:58 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AllanW on July 28, 2019, 08:42:45 PM

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.

Except that ground was built as the Commonwealth Games stadium for Manchester 2002 not as an expansion for a football club. The club moved in years later as an expedient decision to develop the Maine Road area with the city council. Totally different to Arsenal and Spurs situations.

Citeh situation is more like the Wet Spam except you then need to wash your hands after every meeting with those porn-peddlers ...
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 08:51:21 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

This, this this this, this this, this, this.

This
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 08:57:44 PM
Aston Villa play at Villa Park.
If you want to tear the soul out of the club, then move the club.
It would destroy what we know as our club.
Show me one major English club that has pulled this off.
Look at the Arsenal fans know campaigning to get some atmosphere at home games,if that is what people really want count me out.

There's no less atmosphere at the new Arsenal ground than there was at Highbury.  The problem is all seater stadia and the more gentrified nature of the game these days.  It all depends on what you mean by "pulled off".  Man City's new stadium is better in every conceivable way than Maine Road ever was.  I haven't been to the new Spurs ground yet, but it looks amazing.  None of the Bolton fans on my wife's side of the family have ever been nostalgic for Burden Park.

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.
If you like soul less mega stadia, fine. It’s all a bit contrived, corporate and sanitized.
But I get the point when the starting point was Maine Road.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 09:00:13 PM
I do understand why many would want to stay, and if we can expand then that would be ideal.

I think a new stadium would only be discussed if we couldn't expand.

Given a choice between playing in front of 40,000 at Villa Park, or 60,000 a few miles away, I would go for the latter every single time. Even though it would, selfishly, probably be bad for me. Reducing my chances of getting Wembley tickets if we ever get there.

The emotional investment in Villa Park is not a sufficient reason to deny 20,000 people the opportunity to attend Villa home games.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 28, 2019, 09:02:47 PM
I do understand why many would want to stay, and if we can expand then that would be ideal.

I think a new stadium would only be discussed if we couldn't expand.

Given a choice between playing in front of 40,000 at Villa Park, or 60,000 a few miles away, I would go for the latter every single time. Even though it would, selfishly, probably be bad for me. Reducing my chances of getting Wembley tickets if we ever get there.

The emotional investment in Villa Park is not a sufficient reason to deny 20,000 people the opportunity to attend Villa home games.

I'm sure a good architect could design a 60,000 stadium on the existing Villa Park footprint
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 09:06:42 PM
Yes, and if they can I'll be happy. Although the previous Witton Lane architect did a shit job. And regardless of what plans we put forward, they'd still need to obtain planning permission.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:07:36 PM

Yep, I think 'show me one club that have pulled this off' gets pretty easily answered with Man City.

Except that ground was built as the Commonwealth Games stadium for Manchester 2002 not as an expansion for a football club. The club moved in years later as an expedient decision to develop the Maine Road area with the city council. Totally different to Arsenal and Spurs situations.

Citeh situation is more like the Wet Spam except you then need to wash your hands after every meeting with those porn-peddlers ...

The question wasn't about 'how' it happened, it was simply about moving to a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 28, 2019, 09:20:07 PM
Play on the moon, I'll still go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:21:55 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 09:22:06 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 09:23:12 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.

I think plenty of West Ham fans said they wouldn't go if they left Upton Park. Maybe a few didn't, but they've still massively increased their support.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 28, 2019, 09:28:09 PM
I'm all for optimism, but let's wait until we get into the real action before we see if a new expanded ground is merited. I'd love it to be the case, but even during the relative success at the start of the lerner years it wasn't as if we were consistently selling out our current ground. Things *might* be different now, and obviously there's no harm in discussing it theoretically, but we're miles away from being able to discuss it as a viable option right now.

In any event, i would have thought that the north stand could be re-developed to get us up to around 50,000?
Quite right, the planning consent we obtained just for the redevelopment of the North Stand would increase Villa Park’s capacity to 53,000 for starters. The city council wants and needs a world class venue , we need it not only for football but for major artists to be able to play here in our City too. As for moving ? No way Jose, use the money to relocate the residents from any local roads likely to be affected by our expansion . We are Aston Villa and this is where we belong.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:29:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
My Uber app says it is connecting with 5 Tardis drivers in my area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 28, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I think you have missed the point.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 09:45:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 09:49:35 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I think you have missed the point.

Yes that's right, it's me who's missed the point.  All the clubs who have moved to bigger grounds and who are filling them are missing out on future generations of fans.   Right.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 09:49:43 PM
I fear change.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on July 28, 2019, 09:57:09 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 28, 2019, 09:57:53 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 09:59:23 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

ha made me chuckle
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
.

No, but you could make similar arguments about Highbury, White Hart Lane, Maine Road, Vicente Calderón, De Meer Stadion and so on. The clubs seem to have moved to new stadia without the world ending.

Given the choice about staying at Villa Park for sentimental reasons, or playing somewhere else in front of an extra twenty thousand people a week, I can't see how anyone could argue that sentiment should be allowed to prevail. It would be the corner shop mentality we used to accuse Doug Ellis of possessing.

Obviously I would rather Villa Park could be expanded to meet our requirements, but if it couldn't, any Board worthy of their position would have to consider moving. I'm not sure how easy it is to expand. Part of me wonders, if it was so easy to expand to have a 60,000 capacity stadium where a 40,000 one used to be, why didn't Arsenal and Tottenham just do that?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 10:14:03 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 10:23:14 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


ha ha infairness it is who Doug would get to do it
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2019, 10:24:34 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

Yep, and, as I said, if you built a new ground you'd have a functional ground to play at until the new one was ready, without that we'd end up ground sharing somewhere or paying extra to have the temporary commonwealth fixtures extended for us and using that (which is also a pain in the arse to get to compared to Villa). Personally I'd have a lot more issues with us playing at a temporary ground for an extended period than I would with us moving to a new stadium, designed with an understanding of the clubs tradition and heritage in mind, that was based in, or near, the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 10:24:46 PM
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 28, 2019, 10:31:06 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Newby on July 28, 2019, 10:36:20 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Very true, Doug fucked that up.  The Trinity Road stand was a thing of beauty despite it being old.  The North Stand is an abomination. 
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 28, 2019, 10:39:37 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.



I look at the Glasgow Rangers main stand and wish we had done something similar
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 28, 2019, 10:39:46 PM
We are spending a fair few quid upgrading data provision but I’m guessing that is something we have to do to meet VAR obligations whether we are planning on staying at VP for a season or a century.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 28, 2019, 10:46:38 PM
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Maybe not , but the Holte pub , Aston Hall  and some Victorian architecture  around the ground (Barton Arms for one) to me are engrained in our History.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 10:48:45 PM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 28, 2019, 10:53:37 PM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/fFDgDjG/villa2.png) (https://ibb.co/fFDgDjG)

The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

Ha!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 28, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
The North Stand is what, 42, 43 years of age now?  By modern stadia that's almost historic.

I still have to crane my neck anytime I go past the massive AV initials from the motorway (I really should stop doing that) and it was pioneering when it was built. Many clubs copied the design after but none had quite the same effect.

I'd be happy enough to gut the interior and the exterior facing the carpark, mind. The crosswinds in winter aren't much fun either. Celtic have heated seats in some of their sections, so that might be something to look at.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FrankyH on July 28, 2019, 11:01:32 PM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

Okay , the Tram station , the Aston Tavern and the old Aston Hotel.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: DB on July 28, 2019, 11:18:55 PM
If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2019, 11:22:16 PM
If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.

Spurs could do that as they had Wembley to move to while they built the new one.  Where could we play in similar circumstances?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 11:23:42 PM
Alexander Stadium has been suggested.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john2710 on July 28, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Nothing would stop me from going, wherever the ground was. But it would be heart breaking to see Villa Park torn down, but if we successful over the next 5 years it will become inevitable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 28, 2019, 11:34:47 PM
Alexander Stadium has been suggested.

This, we could definitely play there. Alexander Stadium, complete rebuild at VP. Problem solved.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hinckley Dave on July 28, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 28, 2019, 11:48:11 PM
We averaged 36,000 last season in the second tier, and are buying players with the intention of competing with the top teams in the land. We have 30,000 season ticket holders but it could have been many more if the total hadn't been capped. We also have a waiting list for season tickets.

Just about every club in the Premier League gets bigger crowds than they did five years ago. Attendances are only going to increasw.

There is no way we are going to be averaging 35,000 in the next few years.

Anyone who thinks Villa can't compete with poxy no marks like West Ham is probably more deluded than the average Wolves fan.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brentastonb6 on July 29, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.
I can see what your point is Dave but this is all about potential. When we last won the league our average gate was 33,000. If you’d have said to someone then that we’d be shocking for six years, spend three years in the championship and average over 35,000 they’d have poured scorn on  you too. This is about what we could become with some real business nous and vision at the top which we now appear to have .
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 12:34:07 AM
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.

I think plenty of West Ham fans said they wouldn't go if they left Upton Park. Maybe a few didn't, but they've still massively increased their support.

And I would bet every one of them who did say that have found their way to go to the new ground and become regulars there. I don't imagine they have lost one fan. The same goes for every single grumbling Arsenal fan, Man City fan, Southampton fan, Brighton fan etc who said they would never watch their team again has. And they got used to it. Not one of them stays at home listening the game on the radio when they could be at The Emirates or wherever out of spite. It's utter nonsense to think that if a spanking new ground was built taking into consideration history and modern top level stadia facilities that any Villa fan would refuse to go.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:22:29 AM
Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.

Again (because I answered almost exactly the same point a few pages back) the quickest version of this would need 4-5 years to come together. We have some of the richest owners in world football and they're quite clearly not fucking around. Yes it's getting ahead of ourselves but if your assumptions of everything going to shit is wrong then we'll need to have been thinking about it. Every ground is (or can be) special to the fans, I bet there's thousands of Man City fans with memories from Maine Road, but if every decision you make is about tradition and heritage then, to put it as simply as possible, you get left behind and the tag of 'historians' that some fans like to throw at us will actually have some truth to it.

To put it another way, if a new ground, a few miles away from VP, gave us the commercial boost to really push in to the top 6 and as a result we won the FA cup would you be happy that 2-3 generations of Villa fans who've never seen us lift that trophy have a fantastic new memory to cherish? The commercial side is now massively important in setting the club up to challenge for trophies and, for me, the current state of Villa park plays a big part in our commercial revenue not reflecting the size of the club.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: TheMalandro on July 29, 2019, 01:29:24 AM
It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

I'd be happy to stay in the Bartons until the new ground was built.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 01:47:19 AM
For me the development, expansion or rebuild of Villa Park is inevitable in the not too distant future, so there are a few simple options:

a. purchase more land around Villa Park and rebuild the individual stands with reduced capacity during the season.
b. purchase more land around Villa Park, build a new stadium and temporarily move to new Alexander stadium.
c. purchase new land and build new stadium, and remain at Villa Park until complete.

The future of Villa Park seems to very much depend on the ownership and infrastructure of the surrounding land. I would prefer an amazing new stadium where we belong, however I think it would be fair to suggest that relocating would be more financially and logistically viable.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 02:50:29 AM
We could play at St Andrews, the Hawthorns or Molineux. It'd be their first capacity attendance ever, I'd imagine.

Though I'd prefer somewhere cleaner, and people with the normal amount of fingers in the surrounding area.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 29, 2019, 04:02:01 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OzVilla on July 29, 2019, 04:06:01 AM
For me the development, expansion or rebuild of Villa Park is inevitable in the not too distant future, so there are a few simple options:

a. purchase more land around Villa Park and rebuild the individual stands with reduced capacity during the season.
b. purchase more land around Villa Park, build a new stadium and temporarily move to new Alexander stadium.
c. purchase new land and build new stadium, and remain at Villa Park until complete.

The future of Villa Park seems to very much depend on the ownership and infrastructure of the surrounding land. I would prefer an amazing new stadium where we belong, however I think it would be fair to suggest that relocating would be more financially and logistically viable.

Option B if we have to.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 05:50:07 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.


You've nailed it for me.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 29, 2019, 06:18:05 AM
If we consider a temporary move to Alexander Stadium, this is worth a read - https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/news/article/434/plans_revealed_for_alexander_stadium_redevelopment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 29, 2019, 07:10:43 AM
Wes Edens said something interesting in an interview I saw posted a few weeks ago at some business seminar in the States.

He was asked about buying the Villa and his reply was along the lines of he didn't quite know what to expect but when they arrived at the ground he was awestruck - I think the quote was "it was like walking in and suddenly realising you'd bought Fenway Park'.  He gets it.

I smiled when I heard him say this as regardless of whether we are successful or not Villa Park has and will always be a source of immense pride for me being a Villa fan.  It's historic, it's beautiful (and it still is despite what anyone says) it's authentic and it's home. I've heard it mentioned by commentators and other clubs supporters how great it is that VP is back as a PL ground and they are not talking about the club in general but the ground. Easy for me to say from such a distance granted but the day we move from VP is a day a big chunk of that club dies imo.

Regard Arsenal and Spurs, well Arsenal we're desperately chasing the extra revenue from tourist supporters (38k capacity at Highbury) as were West Ham while Spurs new ground is built on roughly the same footprint as WHL (36k capacity). That's not to say VP couldn't have an upgrade but a 50-55K capacity should be enough. The thought of Aston Villa moving out of Aston - a massive no from me.


You've nailed it for me.

100% agree.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 29, 2019, 08:12:34 AM
 This is an intetesring debate but as things stand the only "ground improvements" the owners have done is to spruce up the exterior of the North stand.To my knowledge theres no indication that they have anything else planned apart from rebuilding the offices. If all goes well next season and the ground sells out many times they may well look at expanding VP. I don't know of any available brownfield site in the area so moving away from Aston would most likely see us relocate somewhere near the NEC. Personally i'd hate that idea. My choice if it comes to it would be to redevelop Villa Park. Theres room for a bigger and better North Stand and with a lot of arm twisting with the council room could be made for a bigger and better Witton Lane stand. Ridding the club of some of the cheapskate mishmash work under Ellis making the ground more symmetrical and aesthecically more  pleasing to look at in one fell swoop. A capacity of 50,000 to 55,000 is plenty i think and achievable. Improvements to Aston & Witton stations and thats it were done.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: luke95 on July 29, 2019, 08:30:59 AM
If we do ever have to move for a complete rebuild I can not see it being anywhere else but the Alexander/Perry Barr stadium site . Brum city centre would be a none starter
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 29, 2019, 08:39:05 AM
I would add to that The Edge while they are twisting the arm of the Council the acquisition of the redundant strip of land flanking the Aston Expressway to build Aston Villa Approach direct from the HP roundabout to Holy Trinity church.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 08:41:27 AM
I couldn’t see it being anywhere but close to an existing or proposed rail line, staying on the cross city line makes sense.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: brian green on July 29, 2019, 08:52:46 AM
Not finding fault with your idea Peter but Brighton put all their fan attendance pretty much in the one basket of rail access.  The problems generated by the rail operators has made Brighton the nightmare fixture for travelling fans.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2019, 10:48:58 AM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
Expansion via a new North Stand wouldn’t be a game-changer in terms of revenue. A new stadium could be. The owners will be looking at all options I should think and they’ve done nothing wrong so far. I’m up for a new ground in the city if they are.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
It was nice of Coventry to move out of their stadium just in case we need it whilst Villa Park is being rebuilt.  ;)
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 11:15:09 AM
It was nice of Coventry to move out of their stadium just in case we need it whilst Villa Park is being rebuilt.  ;)

That would be a real piss take. I'm coming around to the idea.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 11:25:43 AM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 11:28:04 AM
I think the wholesale redevelopment of Aston hinted at by Tony Xia also sounded exciting until one looked at his shoes, but if we were thinking of going closer to the city, the Gun Quarter could be an option. Fairly derelict, hardly any residents save a few student schemes, virtually borders Aston, keeping the integrity of the name, and still North Brum along with lots of our support. I bet the land would be cheaper than Smithfield and the council would be supportive I’d have thought. They haven't thought of any kind of plan for the area at all, it’s the gaping omission from what surrounds the city core. Clockwise from there you’ve got Eastside, Digbeth, Smithfield, The Gay and Chinese quarters, The West End (Mailbox/canals/convention/NIA/Brindleyplace/Five Ways/Broad Street), the Jewellery Quarter, then you’re back at the Gun Quarter.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: robbo1874 on July 29, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 12:04:25 PM
They were already paying eye watering amounts for season tickets.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
A shiny new 60k seat stadium isn't happening anytime soon. The owners will want to see us as a consolidated PL side before they even consider it in my opinion. The most likely compromise is the rebuilding of the NS , which needs doing as a matter of urgency.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:13:16 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: old man villa fan on July 29, 2019, 12:14:33 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:16:49 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?


North stand is 7k  I imagine you could build the new stand behind it and have a bank of 14000 to get to 50 k
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 12:18:14 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at a time.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.

Exactly. Even factoring in the lower building costs in Brum, you'd be doing incredibly well to get that for half the price. Which at £500 million is a colossal amount for any set of owners to take on. Liverpool's new stand just on its own was £110 million.  I don't think it's unreasonable that they might want to take their time and make sure the numbers stack up.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:21:58 PM
Regarding the corners of the witton lane could they not expand in that area to provide better facilities for the top tier ?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:22:12 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at at time.
Nothing else to talk shit about until we sign another keeper and a striker...unless you enjoy the shithouse thread!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 29, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
All this talk of a new stadium is a tad premature. Let's just deal with one thing at at time.
Nothing else to talk shit about until we sign another keeper and a striker...unless you enjoy the shithouse thread!


I am good at talking shit like this
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 12:32:20 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?

North Stand 7,086
Witton Lane Stand 9,081
Trinity Road Stand 12,954
Holte End 13,472
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
What’s the current capacity of the North Stand and would it’s replacement be sufficient to add another 8000 seats to take us to 50,000? Not sure how long building works would take but I presume capacity would be reduced to approx 35,000 for at least half a season with only 3 stands open?

North Stand 7,086
Witton Lane Stand 9,081
Trinity Road Stand 12,954
Holte End 13,472

So to make Villa Park 50,000 capacity, you'd need to more than double the size of the North Stand, and it would then become the biggest stand at Villa Park.  I just can't see them doing that as a half way measure.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Hookeysmith on July 29, 2019, 12:52:13 PM
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: PeterWithe on July 29, 2019, 12:55:01 PM
A shiny new 60k seat stadium isn't happening anytime soon. The owners will want to see us as a consolidated PL side before they even consider it in my opinion. The most likely compromise is the rebuilding of the NS , which needs doing as a matter of urgency.

If it was my money I wouldn’t spend it on increasing the capacity of one stand whilst the medium term plan will likely to be to knock it down again sometime in the next 10 years. The costs would be high and wasteful.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 12:56:26 PM
I am sure I read that the Holte was the largest free standing end in European football?

It was before Man U added a third tier on the Stretford End.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 12:57:37 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:06:09 PM
Short-medium term, redevelopment of the north stand seems the obvious choice to me. Existing planning permission in place, build could be done without too much fuss and I think 53,000 capacity would be plenty. let’s worry about complete re-builds/ moving, when we’ve filled a 53,000 ground for a few years.

How many years, after a multi-million pound construction project, would you need to wait for the expense of that development to not look like a massive waste of money?
lets be realistic for minute. Most agree we probably need a bigger ground, or may do soon. We can add 10000+ to the ground, relatively easily and cheaply. City centre site and new 60000 ground is a whole different proposition. Spurs new ground on a site they presumably already owned cost 1bn and their fans are now having to pay eye watering prices for season tickets.

Exactly. Even factoring in the lower building costs in Brum, you'd be doing incredibly well to get that for half the price. Which at £500 million is a colossal amount for any set of owners to take on. Liverpool's new stand just on its own was £110 million.  I don't think it's unreasonable that they might want to take their time and make sure the numbers stack up.

You're actually making my point for me there.

If we go with a full redevelopment costing £500m would anyone agree to spending £100m to replace the north stand now if they're considering a full redevelopment? The Doug Ellis (and I like using that name because the sheer number of problems with the stand is a fantastic legacy for him) would still be a problem because the stand is just too narrow.

If they think we can be attracting 55-60k within 5-6 years then you can't redevelop the north and DE in that timescale to make the ground that size. That's why there are advantages to looking elsewhere.

I agree that inside the ring road would be hard going but, as Percy mentioned, there's a lot of old factory and warehouse units behind st chads (either side of the canal) and I reckon you could get a good sized plot there pretty easily. There'd be planning issues with removing roads (or potentially building over the canal) and I reckon a ground that's a couple of minutes walk from Aston Uni definitely isn't being moved out of it's 'area'.

Again, I'm not saying I want this to happen, I'm just pointing out that, from a pure business perspective it makes more sense than trying to do things quickly on the existing site. If the timescales are 15-20 years then great, stay where we are, buy out as much land around the ground as possible over the next decade and then do a full transformation project with the council. I'd be fine with that, but I'm not sure it's the right approach if our mid term goal is for the club to be fully self-sustaining.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 01:07:01 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


They're not fine, they're really, really not. Pitch side, maybe, but not back of house. Where are they going to put these toilets, on the roof?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: London Villan on July 29, 2019, 01:11:25 PM
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.




Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:17:26 PM
I would expect a new North Stand to be a wrap around from the Trinity so it should be able to boost capacity to 50k. If further expansion is required then this would form a horseshoe with the Witton being rebuilt.

The current Holte and Trinity are fine as they are, and they could be significantly improved with more modern catering and toilet facilities.


If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
Under Lerner I saw the actual plans for two options of a wrap-around North Stand. There was only about 2000 seat difference between the two options, they were also roughly costed to circa £60m.

I just sense with the new ownership they might want to take the club to next level and have the resources to do it.

If Villa Park is to be redeveloped I think it will be the start of a 20 year plan to shift the stadium back 20 metres to use the space behind the North Stand. The Trinity was built so it could be extended at the North End - so this would help in that respect.

But the new stadium option is an interesting one, not just for us, but the city too. Yes it would be ours and but called Villa Park - but it could host all sorts of other events that currently by-pass Birmingham.

A lot of the new MLS stadiums are built close to the centre of cities, the new LAFC one for example and supporter facilities are light years ahead of what we currently have to endure at Villa Park.

The last line is the important bit. We all know how important the history of the club is. Put a new stadium in the right place and you could add a museum of sorts, with loads of info about how the club shaped the future of the sport. You could build the ground, from the outside, as a homage to Villa park as it was 30-40 years ago (but with the holte end largely duplicated in place of the north stand) but with modern toilets, kiosks and facilities. Then outside you could easily create a 'fan park' area and invite vendors from things like the Digbeth Dining Club in as well as having street level bars and a massive shop and ticket office.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 01:37:10 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Smirker on July 29, 2019, 02:27:05 PM
Having read this interesting discussion I now support a new stadium.

In the city centre is perfect. I will miss VP and the traveling would be an issue but it would be good for the city and the club, so I am pro new build.

#VoteLeave
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 02:42:23 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 29, 2019, 03:06:21 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Axl Rose on July 29, 2019, 03:11:20 PM
I know it's the NSWE Investment thread, but would it be possible to add a poll regarding what people prefer regarding leaving Villa Park/staying and redeveloping etc?

Added a poll.

Great! Thank you, Paulie.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
I don't like this only having one option nonsense. That's how Brexit got started.

I'm in favour of rebuilding the North and the Witton Lane Stand to take capacity to at least 55,000. If we are unable to do that, move to a new ground holding at least 60,000.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 03:28:36 PM
This season is the first where demand has been as high. We're just back in the top division.

Why on earth would anyone gamble on building a new ground, either where we are or elsewhere on the back of that? If demand starts to outstrip supply then perhaps we look at it but how many times in the last (insert however many you wish) years have we had capacity crowds?

That has nothing to do with the facilities either, but all to do with the football, Arsenal and Tottenham had smaller capacities than ours and went bigger after sustained success (modern-day success of finishing Top 4), Liverpool and Manchester clubs similarly. We need to show that we'll challenge over a period of time rather than a knee-jerk reaction to one successful season getting promoted via the play-offs from Division 2.

We may need to update the North and Witton but I'd hold off until we know that crowds will continue, that we can challenge and that it's sustainable. There's nothing worse than half-empty grounds, and I fear that's what would happen if we don't start winning trophies.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 03:30:23 PM
agreed - this isn't happening in the immediate future,we have to become an established force first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 03:42:04 PM
Absolutely. We need continued investment in the playing side first, establish ourselves back in the top 6 and look to be qualifying for Champions League. New stadium plans take years to design and implement anyway so there’s no harm in getting the ball rolling and exploring options.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 03:43:50 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 03:49:41 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.

For season tickets that have been capped at 30k for the first time ever.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
Demand already outstrips supply.

Not to the point where we need a new stadium it hasnt.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 03:59:51 PM
Not necessarily. We need to expand the stadium though.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 29, 2019, 04:03:04 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to rip the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid on the arse if football grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: LeeB on July 29, 2019, 04:11:39 PM
I went for the last option, as music never lets you down, puts a smile on your face any time, any place.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: thick_mike on July 29, 2019, 04:25:38 PM
I went for the last option, as music never lets you down, puts a smile on your face any time, any place.

Me too, because I’m still buzzing from seeing Nile Rodgers and Chic last night.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 04:35:11 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to ripp the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid  on the arse if footvall grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me

Riverside is pretty wank tbf.

Of the ones which have improved I'd list Arsenal and Wembley.

Southampton is about the worst.

No reason why we need a tedious identikit stadium, though. Building projects in Birmingham in the last twenty years show that the city is not afraid of being different to be iconic.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: mr underhill on July 29, 2019, 04:35:31 PM
this thread's beginning to freak me out tbh.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 04:36:31 PM
this thread's beginning to freak me out tbh.

BOO!
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: The Edge on July 29, 2019, 04:57:58 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Theres no available land?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: FatSam on July 29, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 05:56:06 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 06:07:59 PM
I reckon Charlton Heston at some point must have expressed an opinion that matches how I feel about spuds pulling off something that people reckon we couldn't.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Pat McMahon on July 29, 2019, 06:11:47 PM
I could live with filling in the corners joining the North Stand, and leaving the Holte End as an actual "end".

I don't know how feasible this is but that would be the first thing I would look at too. Viewed from the Holte, it is always striking how narrow the North Stand is - there is a considerable gap and loss of capacity in both corners.

I am sure we could find an architect capable of coming up with a couple of proposals..I'd also rename it the Witton End.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 06:12:05 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on July 29, 2019, 06:13:32 PM
Ideally would prefer to stay and expand the ground, or at a push (if viable) new ground where we are now.Sadly doubt the second option would ever come to fruition because of the restrictions locally.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: dave shelley on July 29, 2019, 06:20:23 PM
I voted to leave it alone for five years.  There have been so many false dawns I prefer to wait and see what happens.  I'm aware that I may not be around to see how things pan-out in that time but, the club has to come first.  If we go ahead and go for a new stadium we would be like eggs in a biscuit tin if in the awful event we struggled and got relegated.

I would be heartbroken to see us leave Villa Park, I've spent sixty-odd years worshiping there but, I'm not naive enough not to realise it may have to happen, progress and all that; and if we do then surely it will be a sign that the Villa are once again a major force in English football.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Rudy65 on July 29, 2019, 06:23:00 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.

It would be a lot, lot cheaper to extend what we have rather than move
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 06:28:07 PM
If you create that wrap around stand what is actually left of the Villa Park that you're determined to save? You'd have lost the 4 (mostly) self contained stands effect which is one of best things about the ground. Yes the Holte End would still be there untouched but nothing else of the ground would be there anymore (because the work to link the trinity to the North would be huge and would completely change the stand).

I think that you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

If the process of raising the capacity, or improving the facilities, means losing the character of the historic ground, then what is the point in staying where we are? Especially as it will only ever be a very compromised wrap around stadium given the site constraints.

My own view is that we've actually already lost the character of the historic ground since the old Trinity was demolished. I think the important qualities of the current ground are more to do with forming part of an ensemble with the park, Aston Hall and the church. This ensemble doesn't rely on playing on exactly the same rectangle of grass, as we have for 120 years, and so a Spurs-style re-positioning of the ground to allow for a purpose-built stadium in broadly the same location would be my preference. In fact a re-orientating of the ground to be north-south with a new Holte End opening out towards the park, and a new Witton End opening out towards the station might enhance these relationships.

This obviously depends on how successful we are over the next few years, the funds available, and most importantly, the potential for a wider masterplan vision for Aston that would support a new ground in this location being the premier sports and event venue in the region, with public transport and other infrastructure developed accordingly. Otherwise, another location on the north side of the city centre should be at least considered. I certainly don't think that we should just go ahead and implement a redevelopment that was conceived under Doug's stewardship of the club in the last millennium.

Liverpool obviously made reasonable progress with a relocation under their previous ownership, and Spurs were considering the London Stadium for a time before settling on their current plans. I agree that a soul-less Etihad type stadium would not be the best way to go.



You make a good point regarding the Trinity. We got rid of our most iconic stand, we got rid of our famous standing home end (I know that wasn't necessarily through choice) and the Witton Lane stand and North stand are also both relatively new. If we knocked down Villa Park and totally rebuilt it like Spurs and White Hart Lane we wouldn't actually be losing any original stand.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Damo70 on July 29, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
I’ve been to Main Road and the new Man City stadium anyone using it as a example of a good thing is mad
Of all the new clubs that have moved somehow City managed to rip the heart out of their club

it’s the most soulless place in English football bar none

Sad because I like them as a club, but when I went (we lost 4-0) I actually felt sorry for their fans which sounds ridiculous but talking to them they were so disconnected to what they had become

I wouldn’t swap places and be where they are with all their money and success
football is far more than shiny new stadiums with a bit of leg room and space to cart wheel around at half time, who gives a fuck your at a football match

I haven’t been to a single new ground yet where I preferred it to the old one
That could change as I haven’t visited the Riverside yet and Ayrsome park was a hemorrhoid on the arse if football grounds

you millennials wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes in the cess pit conditions of yesteryear
we’ve come a long way from that but it’s still a football match we going to not the Opera or the Dorchester

it’s a big no from me


The glaring mistake Middlesbrough made when moving stadiums was that they stayed in the shithole that is Middlesbrough.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Ads on July 29, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
I'm sure Man City fans are gutted the way their fortunes have changed.

That said, they've not moved into a football stadium, they've into a converted athletics stadium, the same as West Ham and you can tell.

A new ground doesn't have to be a soulless bowl.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2019, 06:46:38 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
I don't see how we can do anything substantial with the ground as it's oriented. You can't "just" fill in the corners. You can't raise the Doug. The Trinity's built over a road as it is. And that's the two sides which dictate where the ends go. We have to move the pitch.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 07:07:11 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

In London.

Did all the London clubs used to get bigger crowds than us when neither they nor us were filled to capacity?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: exigo on July 29, 2019, 07:42:02 PM
Ideally, we'd approach it along the lines of Borussia Dortmund's ground. It's not just a soulless bowl, they've taken each stand up in size, and managed to fill the corners in a way that still keeps the traditional rectangle and four sides in place.

If there was no issue with the residents behind the park on the Witton side, I'd love us to take both the North and Witton stands up to the size of the Trinity, or even beyond. But do it with a coherent plan to take the whole ground up in size – that's a big indictment of the Ellis era, that four new stands have so little connection to each other.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2019, 07:47:15 PM
I'm sure Man City fans are gutted the way their fortunes have changed.

That said, they've not moved into a football stadium, they've into a converted athletics stadium, the same as West Ham and you can tell.

A new ground doesn't have to be a soulless bowl.

All the Leicester fans I know really like the King Power Stadium.  Even though that's relatively new they're already talking about expanding it.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: four fornicholl on July 29, 2019, 08:10:10 PM
Ideally, we'd approach it along the lines of Borussia Dortmund's ground. It's not just a soulless bowl, they've taken each stand up in size, and managed to fill the corners in a way that still keeps the traditional rectangle and four sides in place.

If there was no issue with the residents behind the park on the Witton side, I'd love us to take both the North and Witton stands up to the size of the Trinity, or even beyond. But do it with a coherent plan to take the whole ground up in size – that's a big indictment of the Ellis era, that four new stands have so little connection to each other.
The four individual stands, whatever the pros and cons, are the beauty of Villa Park for so many.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 29, 2019, 08:15:09 PM
The idea of a new stadium on the old Wholesale Markets site is a non-starter.  The reason for moving the markets is to open up the area to re-link Digbeth and Highgate to the centre so that residential areas can be built (see 'The Big City Plan').  The Planners are not going to accept a massive stadium blocking what they are trying to create. Any new major stadium will have to be built outside the inner ring road.

Any reason why it couldn’t be in the Gun Quarter?
Theres no available land?

Is that a question or an answer?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 08:44:41 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
I don't think anyone is saying we should start building next summer but i think the club should start looking at the options and talking to the council. If we have a decent season then around this time next year would be about right to start fan consultation ahead of starting work in 2022 or 23.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: OCD on July 29, 2019, 09:00:10 PM
It would be nice to have a plan in place and the appropriate permissions attained for when we are ready to make changes.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 09:00:59 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.


Alright then, not optimising our massive potential. How's about that, better?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 29, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
I don’t think using Man City and West Ham Will ever be good examples to justify a new stadium. They used existing facilities built for the entirely different events. Spurs seems to be the closest thing to something fans actually want.

Again, it doesn't really matter how they got into the new grounds. The point is, even a half-arsed club who used to be famous like West Ham are pulling in well over 50,000 a game.

I know man, I'm on your side. My point was that using those grounds a reason not to do it makes no sense. I want us to do this once and do it right. Do the research needed, on us as fans, on the area, on all of the commercial benefits and build a future Villa Park that is everything we would want. Right now as much as we all love Villa Park it's a hodge podge of stands that don't do the club proud.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:04:38 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.

Of course they are. If we have 50,000 Villa fans wanting to attend matches and only 39,000 can do so, then that's 11,000 missing out. An so on.

The longer we leave it, the greater the lost revenue.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:05:06 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.


Alright then, not optimising our massive potential. How's about that, better?

We've just got back up from the championship after three season's. The next step is turning ourselves into a solid top flight club. Once we've done that, then let's look at it. Oh and how many is our massive potential?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:08:18 PM
There's some desperate attempts to try to prove Villa's support is rubbish. Not really sure why, our support was spectacular up and down the country while we were in the second tier, and people are more enthused about the club than they have been in decandes. The ticket sales speak for themselves. We have a choice, expand... or force our own fans to miss out.

Or let's see how next the season or two goes. No-one is forcing any fans to miss out at all. What an over dramatic  comment.

Of course they are. If we have 50,000 Villa fans wanting to attend matches and only 39,000 can do so, then that's 11,000 missing out. An so on.

The longer we leave it, the greater the lost revenue.

Well, let's see if we sell out every game next season first and then maybe the season after. We've just got back up. Let's sort out the on the field side first.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:11:06 PM
Nah, let's look at it now. Our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more.

Unless you believe no marks like West Ham and Sunderland are bigger than Aston Villa...

Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:13:29 PM
Nah, let's look at it now. Our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more.




Are you basing that on because we've just been promoted or because we've just spent over £100m?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
On the basis that Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham, Man City, Man United and Liverpool all have bigger grounds than us. Everton will have soon.

You think Villa are only the tenth biggest club in England?

Everybody else has boosted their capacity or has plans to do do. I'm not asking for us to do anything out of the ordinary. Expand, as all our competitors  (and Sunderland), have done.

Look elsewhere in the Premier League. How many clubs have the same capacity they had when John Major was Prime Minister?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:20:32 PM
On the basis that Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Sunderland, West Ham, Man City, Man United and Liverpool all have bigger grounds than us. Everton will have soon.

You think Villa are only the tenth biggest club in England?

Everybody else has boosted their capacity or has plans to do do. I'm not asking for us to do anything out of the ordinary. Expand, as all our competitors, and Sunderland, have done.

I agree, but let's establish ourselves up here first then look at it. There's no immediate rush.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:25:44 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: KRS on July 29, 2019, 09:29:21 PM
I’m pretty sure as fans we are facing the same dilemma that Spurs and Everton went through. We all know that Spurs are delighted with their new state of the art £1bn stadium and I expect the same for Everton once they move from their spiritual home.

Villa Park is my second home as it is for many thousands of us, but as mentioned previously, part of the soul was ripped out of it when the Trinity and Holte were flattened, so replacing the current stands with a modern football stadium (not a soulless bowl) surely is the way to progress, so for me it’s just a question of where it should be located and what we do when the build is in progress.

With regards to the Etihad, whilst it may be soulless inside, it does offer an excellent match day experience outside the ground with great facilities for food, drink, entertainment and parking. I don’t know if Spurs have the same but this is what a modern football stadium needs to provide.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:30:11 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.


So there is an immediate rush, our stadium isn't big enough for a club of our stature any more but we can put the plans on hold if we have a disastrous season. Okey dokey.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:34:02 PM
Well, yes. Prepare for the wanted scenario while having a back up plan for if things don't go right. Just like we did when Smith and Purslow were discussing transfer budgets before the playoff final outcome was known.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:38:15 PM
I wonder how many Wolves fans were discussing moving grounds or expanding after they got up and I wonder how many of us laughed at them for getting ahead of their selves?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 29, 2019, 09:38:33 PM
I've never been in another ground that I felt had a soul. Really don't care about them. Given a choice between 33,000 watching Villa from a sparse Holte, beholden to an aged Trinity in a world that doesn't care, or 60,000 watching a team trying to batter all-comers in The Best New Ground In The World, I'll go with the new.
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: john e on July 29, 2019, 09:39:39 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before next summer at the earliest, anyway, so announce proposals to expand but make them conditional and put them on hold if we have a disastrous season.


your off your head mate, you've worked yourself up on a internet thread and think it's some imminent thing your discussing when it's not
they won't be announcing any major ground expansion plans any time soon

we've only just been able to buy the new kit it was so late coming out and the official website was still advertising play off tickets 5 weeks after it was all over,
if you ring up the ticket office you get cut off more often than not so I don't think they will be all over plans for a ground expansion and buying up some spare land in the centre of Birmingham to make your dreams come true right now

sorry to burst your little dream bubble
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: Clampy on July 29, 2019, 09:41:09 PM
I've never been in another ground that I felt had a soul. Really don't care about them. Given a choice between 33,000 watching Villa from a sparse Holte, beholden to an aged Trinity in a world that doesn't care, or 60,000 watching a team trying to batter all-comers in The Best New Ground In The World, I'll go with the new.

Where do the other 27k fans come from?
Title: Re: NSWE Investment
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 29, 2019, 09:44:29 PM
There is an immediate rush. Supply does not meet demand. Obviously nothing will happen before ne