Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: olaftab on June 06, 2018, 01:33:27 PM

Title: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2018, 01:33:27 PM
There are number of threads now covering the same topic. The current pile of shit we find ourselves in. So in order to keep it all in one place how about posting everything to do with the mess  in here so that we are all equally well informed and can add out POV  in one place?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 01:35:06 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Edvard Remberg on June 06, 2018, 01:36:49 PM
Dilly Dilly
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 01:37:00 PM
There are  now 5 threads, I think the mods will need to merge some.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Monty on June 06, 2018, 01:37:29 PM
Dilly Dilly

NOPE.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2018, 01:47:27 PM
I mean it sounds like we could very much go under.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: XXVilla on June 06, 2018, 01:49:10 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

We can only dream of the factory of sadness years now
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on June 06, 2018, 01:49:42 PM
Hope we're finally bottoming out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Des Little on June 06, 2018, 01:50:29 PM
Roll on 2pm for the board meeting
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
How about this is where the repetitive cutting of wrists type stuff goes but the informed postings stay where they should be. No point merging a Wyness, Bruce, Tony, Future threads as they are all different.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 06, 2018, 01:55:02 PM
How about this is where the repetitive cutting of wrists type stuff goes

Just to balance it out I'm going to predict we get promoted as champions next season.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: DB on June 06, 2018, 01:58:09 PM
Makes you wonder if had have got promotion how the 'Dr'  would have managed our finances. Prpbably same piss poor way but with more of it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 06, 2018, 02:01:35 PM
Makes you wonder if had have got promotion how the 'Dr'  would have managed our finances. Prpbably same piss poor way but with more of it.
Rumours the entire lot would have gone to just paying off debts
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 06, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
The Chasm of Misery at the Factory of Ineptitude.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: remy on June 06, 2018, 02:32:34 PM
Considering the mess we find ourselves in now, can you imagine if we WERE promoted and what these planks in charge would have done to the club? Liquidated for sure.

Again no plan b.

Why is it that successful businessmen lose their minds when it comes to running a football club?

Im hearing every Villa player now is part of a fire sale to get the tax bill paid and make up the shortfall.

Every loan player fucked off back to his parent club.

Kodija, Chester, Jedinak, Grealish, Adomah all sold to raise the best part £60 million.

Bruce to depart with one hand tied to his back and partially to blame.

Leeches paid off, McCordick, Shitbola, Richards, Gollini.

Left with this lot to keep us in the division:

Steer
Bree Kid1 Kid2 Taylor
Hourihane Lansbury Bjarnson Green
Hogan Davis



Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: St AustellAVFC on June 06, 2018, 02:38:04 PM
Just been through Newquay. One of the big campsites where the campers fly there flags has a Villa flag flying at half mast.  Didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: BoVillan esq on June 06, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
For me Bruce has gone already, he has a part in this crises, okay its not directly financial, not suggesting that, however, it has to be said in footballing terms and were his responsibility plays its part, you can only harken back to that first 45 mins in the final, had we really really gone out and put 100% into it we could have been 160ml better of..... then you think further back to silly losses to teams like Bolton.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 02:44:08 PM
How are McCormack et all going to have their contracts 'paid off', what with?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2018, 02:48:35 PM
Collymore's tweeted some details. We're losing five million a month, we're short £2 mill on the tax bill and can't loan against BMH, a £22 million overdraft facility has been withdrawn and we've loaned against pretty much everything else.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Small Rodent on June 06, 2018, 02:48:51 PM
How are McCormack et all going to have their contracts 'paid off', what with?

Hopefully a rain of fists.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 06, 2018, 02:53:23 PM
The Chasm of Misery at the Factory of Ineptitude.
The Picture house of Perdition
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 02:54:33 PM
Still, the sun is shining.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 06, 2018, 02:57:13 PM
How are McCormack et all going to have their contracts 'paid off', what with?
They can be a problem no more for about 5 grand each. I know people ; )
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 06, 2018, 02:58:24 PM
Collymore's tweeted some details. We're losing five million a month, we're short £2 mill on the tax bill and can't loan against BMH, a £22 million overdraft facility has been withdrawn and we've loaned against pretty much everything else.
See, we knew it wasn’t that bad !
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 06, 2018, 03:05:36 PM
Still, the sun is shining.

Fucking hayfever :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 03:09:50 PM
And another thing, if that was the last Villa game, I had a fucking ace weekend. Apart from the game.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2018, 03:11:00 PM
We also chased up the final instalment of a transfer fee (believed to be Ciaran Clark) in exchange for 10% off so we could pay last month's wages.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 06, 2018, 03:15:16 PM
Stan the Villa Fan seems to be revelling in it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 03:16:45 PM
We also chased up the final instalment of a transfer fee (believed to be Ciaran Clark) in exchange for 10% off so we could pay last month's wages.

Jesus.  It won't be long until the bigger fish like Brighton and Huddersfield start circling and taking our better players off us for peanuts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2018, 03:17:45 PM
Stan the Villa Fan seems to be revelling in it.

Not half. Villa fans are, rightly enough, extremely distressed. Collymore is just posting so he can be told he was right.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 03:17:59 PM
Suppose its being the centre of attention in that he may be ahead of the story here. And the opportunity to say 'I told you so'.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 03:30:46 PM
Seems SVC is being fed by someone close to Xia.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 06, 2018, 03:32:26 PM
I'm less interested in SVC's motives than I am in whether he's correct.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 06, 2018, 03:41:36 PM
Seems SVC is being fed by someone close to Xia.

His periscope video rant from his sick bed last night mentions 3 sources.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Smirker on June 06, 2018, 03:43:27 PM
Dilly Dilly

Dilly Dilly  8)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ExclDawg on June 06, 2018, 03:46:43 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

That's Copyright Cleveland Browns though, and I don't think Villa can afford the royalties at the moment.

I'm still trying to decide which franchise I pull for is in worse shape.  The Browns have won a grand total of one game in 2 years, but Villa is on the verge of bankruptcy.  I guess the Browns can be thankful they don't have relegation in the NFL.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 06, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
I just hope that was our bad 144 years.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Exeter 77 on June 06, 2018, 03:51:53 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.
I was thinking exactly this last night
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 06, 2018, 03:52:37 PM
Wouldn’t be so bad if we’d got something to show for it. At least Portsmouth’s largesse bought them an GA Cup.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: fbriai on June 06, 2018, 03:53:42 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

That's Copyright Cleveland Browns though, and I don't think Villa can afford the royalties at the moment.

I'm still trying to decide which franchise I pull for is in worse shape.  The Browns have won a grand total of one game in 2 years, but Villa is on the verge of bankruptcy.  I guess the Browns can be thankful they don't have relegation in the NFL.

At least you have the Cavs, ED!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ExclDawg on June 06, 2018, 03:58:17 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

That's Copyright Cleveland Browns though, and I don't think Villa can afford the royalties at the moment.

I'm still trying to decide which franchise I pull for is in worse shape.  The Browns have won a grand total of one game in 2 years, but Villa is on the verge of bankruptcy.  I guess the Browns can be thankful they don't have relegation in the NFL.

At least you have the Cavs, ED!

For another 3 days anyway.  Then they'll be swept, Lebron will be gone, we'll have the highest payroll of any team that can't make the playoffs, and a severe lack of draft picks for a couple of years.  But yeah, at least they can't get relegated either!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: walsall villain on June 06, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.
That pretty much sums up what I think too.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 06, 2018, 03:59:52 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 06, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
I just hope that was our bad 144 years.
That made me laugh
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: fbriai on June 06, 2018, 04:01:49 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

That's Copyright Cleveland Browns though, and I don't think Villa can afford the royalties at the moment.

I'm still trying to decide which franchise I pull for is in worse shape.  The Browns have won a grand total of one game in 2 years, but Villa is on the verge of bankruptcy.  I guess the Browns can be thankful they don't have relegation in the NFL.

At least you have the Cavs, ED!

For another 3 days anyway.  Then they'll be swept, Lebron will be gone, we'll have the highest payroll of any team that can't make the playoffs, and a severe lack of draft picks for a couple of years.  But yeah, at least they can't get relegated either!

Let's just hope that tonight they do to GS what they did to the Celtics. Going to be tough, mind.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: tomd2103 on June 06, 2018, 04:15:32 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.

Sorry, I can't agree with that at all.  I'll continue to support them whatever their circumstances and whichever division they are in.     
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: DaveD on June 06, 2018, 04:16:04 PM
I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop and we find Bodymoor and Villa Park have been quietly transferred to other Recon vehicles and the club is just a loss-making football operation which has just hit its debt ceiling against future income.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2018, 04:17:11 PM
I just cannot conceive of a situation where Aston Villa don’t exist. It’s absolutely crushing.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wittonwarrior on June 06, 2018, 04:17:16 PM
Clubs the size of the Villa don't go to the wall but we could be left to stew  for a consideration time, first of all if we do go into administration with an automatic 12 month point deduction or even worse forced relegation. 

Bruce almost certainly will walk if not pushed, our squad depleted, so even if we escape sanctions our ability to compete in the next season or so will be restricted. 

The telling thing that we are in serious trouble is that the club has consulted with Trevor Birch a leading consultant in money matters such as this.  Why oh why did Villa ever agree to meet Tony Xia.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 04:25:33 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though

Sorry but that doesn’t stack up. The problems  have been caused by the owner not supplying the necessary cashflow. In those circumstances, directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of the company, NOT one individual. Faced with a winding up order, Wyness has done the right thing by exploring all eventualities.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 04:29:04 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.

Sorry, I can't agree with that at all.  I'll continue to support them whatever their circumstances and whichever division they are in.   

That's why I was clear it was just for me.

And I'll support the Villa for as long as the club exists; it's the longest devoted relationship I'll ever have.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john e on June 06, 2018, 04:34:42 PM
clubs don't just disappear out of existence even if they are wound up
Rangers, Wimbledon, Acrington and a load of others all still exist in some form or other

if the worst does come,  a club the size of Villa will always reform and keep playing football even if we have to start again from the bottom
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villadelph on June 06, 2018, 04:39:32 PM
clubs don't just disappear out of existence even if they are wound up
Rangers, Wimbledon, Acrington and a load of others all still exist in some form or other

if the worst does come,  a club the size of Villa will always reform and keep playing football even if we have to start again from the bottom

Hopefully we can mimic Parma, Rangers etc. and make it back.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: waringpongo on June 06, 2018, 04:44:53 PM
Need to keep hold of Villa Park at all costs. Maybe fans could buy it
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: itbrvilla on June 06, 2018, 04:45:00 PM
I'm on the verge of tears here.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 04:45:11 PM
If Hinckley can end up with 2 phoenix type clubs following their demise i'm pretty sure there'll be a Villa of some sort in existence even if the worst happened. Which it won't, clubs the size of Villa don't go out of business, we may end up in div 3 or spend longer outside the top than we ever have but we aren't going to just vanish no matter how bad our finances currently are.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 06, 2018, 04:45:56 PM
In the nuclear scenario, I could stomach the Villa starting all over again but losing Villa Park would be the ultimate sickener.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 04:46:19 PM
Fucking Hell, at least Parma and Rangers won something, we've just had two crappy finishes in the second tier.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mattjpa on June 06, 2018, 04:49:53 PM
Need to keep hold of Villa Park at all costs. Maybe fans could buy it


Ive seen a load of stuff about fans buying the club which I dont agree with.But I absolutely would put in for a floated company Villa Park Ltd which could rent the ground back to the club. £200 per share, no more than 10 shares per person, must have a booking history.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dalians umbrella on June 06, 2018, 04:59:50 PM
Link removed and article posted below.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 05:02:15 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 06, 2018, 05:06:08 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 05:08:43 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.

Oh do piss off.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mrastonvilla on June 06, 2018, 05:10:24 PM
Need to keep hold of Villa Park at all costs. Maybe fans could buy it


Ive seen a load of stuff about fans buying the club which I dont agree with.But I absolutely would put in for a floated company Villa Park Ltd which could rent the ground back to the club. £200 per share, no more than 10 shares per person, must have a booking history.

Was made an asset of the community by the trust back in January, so at least we would know before it was sold
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 06, 2018, 05:10:36 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.

If he doesn't want to click on a paper's link, what's the problem?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 05:18:49 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.
I think that is a little unfair, he like all of us are suffering with this.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 06, 2018, 05:19:47 PM
For those who don’t to read it, it doesn’t make good reading anyway.
We have a made a down payment of 500k against the 4.2m we actually owes with more to come next week.


It really looks like we are scrabbling down the back of the sofa for any loose change.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 06, 2018, 05:20:32 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.

If he doesn't want to click on a paper's link, what's the problem?

He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 06, 2018, 05:20:43 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though

Sorry but that doesn’t stack up. The problems  have been caused by the owner not supplying the necessary cashflow. In those circumstances, directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of the company, NOT one individual. Faced with a winding up order, Wyness has done the right thing by exploring all eventualities.

What if said owner had no idea how bad the situation had become because said CEO (who's job it is to run the club day to day) hadn't been telling him the hard facts ?

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
I've taken a bullet for everyone and here is the article from The Scum 'newspaper', i'll also delete the link from above.

Quote
ASTON VILLA have averted their first crisis after reaching an agreement with HMRC over their outstanding £4.2million tax bill.

ScumSport can reveal Villa have made a substantial down-payment of £500,000 today and will follow that up with further payments next week.

The move comes after Villa’s executive board met today to discuss the club’s perilous financial position.

It is understood Villa owner Dr Tony Xia, currently in Beijing, has agreed a deal with the Premier League to dip heavily into this season’s £15million parachute payment.

He will use more of that cash to pay an imminent £8million wage bill due later this month.

It was reported yesterday that Villa suspended their CEO Keith Wyness after the club was served a winding up order for missing a tax payment.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 05:22:43 PM
He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.

I'm not sure it's good news really.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 06, 2018, 05:23:13 PM
So we've agreed to pay 500k now and plan to use our final parachute payment to pay off HMRC, this month's wage bill with a bit left over towards July.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 05:23:18 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though

Sorry but that doesn’t stack up. The problems  have been caused by the owner not supplying the necessary cashflow. In those circumstances, directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of the company, NOT one individual. Faced with a winding up order, Wyness has done the right thing by exploring all eventualities.

What if said owner had no idea how bad the situation had become because said CEO (who's job it is to run the club day to day) hadn't been telling him the hard facts ?
It would be hard to imagine an owner and businessman being that remote from the numbers.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 06, 2018, 05:23:41 PM
He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.

I'm not sure it's good news really.

You'd rather administration?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: itbrvilla on June 06, 2018, 05:24:04 PM
£8m wage bill?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 05:24:46 PM
He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.

I'm not sure it's good news really.

You'd rather administration?

You think spending the last parachute payment 2 months before the season even starts is good news?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 05:25:41 PM
He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.

I'm not sure it's good news really.

You'd rather administration?

You think spending the last parachute payment 2 months before the season even starts is good news?
It’s buying time.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 06, 2018, 05:25:51 PM
£8m wage bill?

Yes, the latest installment

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
The issue they will face now is that all of the non football related un secured creditors will become the “Barbarians at the gate”
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 05:29:27 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 06, 2018, 05:30:37 PM
Its getting worse and worse. If we are borrowing against parachute payments now, how do we survive the summer? It does look like administration is not that far away, and its 12 point deduction, and we hope that we survive next season and build and build. The spirit of the 70s
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 06, 2018, 05:31:55 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.

Sorry, I can't agree with that at all.  I'll continue to support them whatever their circumstances and whichever division they are in.     

Yeah what a load of bollocks. We’ll always be Villa fans.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 05:33:40 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"
Agree, it’s desperate. It is what happens under these circumstances, Xia will be doing everything to avoid Administration as his investment will be toast..
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 06, 2018, 05:35:08 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"

It's better news than "Villa haven't a pot to piss in to begin paying off their tax bill and a winding-up order has been issued."

None of it is good news, I'll give you that, but I for one want to see the Club survive whatever happens, I'd rather we did what we could to stay where we are and didn't just throw our hands up in the air and say 'what's the use anyway?' as if the end of Aston Villa has always been inevitable.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 06, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 05:36:48 PM
I'm not clicking a link to that dirty fucking rag whatever the story.

Coming from someone who would rather see the club finished for good than try to survive. At least you've laid out your priorities here.

If he doesn't want to click on a paper's link, what's the problem?

He can do what he likes, or doesn't like, and I can point out when it's really a bit daft. First bit of potential good news being reported all week and instead he wants to spout hate and tell the world he'd rather Villa were sunk for good. Bizarre.

Thanks, that's very kind of you. As for being daft, that's merely your opinion; which I'll treat with the contempt it deserves.

Spout hate?! Where have I done that?! If you mean my comment about the Scum, given their track record I'm justified.

I'm surprised that even you would try to get on your high horse in defending that spiteful rag.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 06, 2018, 05:36:59 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"

It's better news than "Villa haven't a pot to piss in to begin paying off their tax bill and a winding-up order has been issued."

None of it is good news, I'll give you that, but I for one want to see the Club survive whatever happens, I'd rather we did what we could to stay where we are and didn't just throw our hands up in the air and say 'what's the use anyway?' as if the end of Aston Villa has always been inevitable.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Stu on June 06, 2018, 05:37:38 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

Absolutely not. Nothing good ever happens to us any more, and hope is a lie.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 05:37:39 PM
So would I, but spunking some/most of our income for next season two months before it even starts isn't good news. If anything it highlights just how bad things are if we have to resort to that to pay bills for a month or two.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on June 06, 2018, 05:37:45 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

You and your love for American owners. When will you learn.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 05:39:34 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though

Sorry but that doesn’t stack up. The problems  have been caused by the owner not supplying the necessary cashflow. In those circumstances, directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of the company, NOT one individual. Faced with a winding up order, Wyness has done the right thing by exploring all eventualities.

What if said owner had no idea how bad the situation had become because said CEO (who's job it is to run the club day to day) hadn't been telling him the hard facts ?

How would he get away with that? Xia would know what the income is going to be, and would have to have signed off on the wages for players like Terry. Xia is a director of the club the same as Wyneds, and the executive board including Wyness and the FD etc report into him.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Keeno on June 06, 2018, 05:40:26 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

Absolutely not. Nothing good ever happens to us any more, and hope is a lie.

Haha I was about to say that - nothing at all good happens to us, don't be silly
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"

It's better news than "Villa haven't a pot to piss in to begin paying off their tax bill and a winding-up order has been issued."

None of it is good news, I'll give you that, but I for one want to see the Club survive whatever happens, I'd rather we did what we could to stay where we are and didn't just throw our hands up in the air and say 'what's the use anyway?' as if the end of Aston Villa has always been inevitable.

Well said.

I don't think anyone has said that though, have they?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 06, 2018, 05:42:15 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"

It's better news than "Villa haven't a pot to piss in to begin paying off their tax bill and a winding-up order has been issued."

None of it is good news, I'll give you that, but I for one want to see the Club survive whatever happens, I'd rather we did what we could to stay where we are and didn't just throw our hands up in the air and say 'what's the use anyway?' as if the end of Aston Villa has always been inevitable.

Well said.

I don't think anyone has said that though, have they?

You’d rather us go out of existence. Fuck sake.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 06, 2018, 05:42:51 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

You and your love for American owners. When will you learn.

I hope he’s pleased with himself.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 06, 2018, 05:45:58 PM
Some good people do exist it seems.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxesofLCFC/status/1004401929600974849?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 05:46:25 PM
Save your ire for the owner.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 06, 2018, 05:46:39 PM
It’s buying time.

Which is very different to good news. As it stands we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Good news would be "Villa have paid all due debts without resorting to borrowing or selling/mortgaging any assets"

It's better news than "Villa haven't a pot to piss in to begin paying off their tax bill and a winding-up order has been issued."

None of it is good news, I'll give you that, but I for one want to see the Club survive whatever happens, I'd rather we did what we could to stay where we are and didn't just throw our hands up in the air and say 'what's the use anyway?' as if the end of Aston Villa has always been inevitable.

Well said.

I don't think anyone has said that though, have they?

You’d rather us go out of existence. Fuck sake.

With none of the bollocks in atals post.

You, probably more than anyone on here, have moaned and moaned and seen a negative side to everything for years. So, excuse me for being sick of hearing it, experiencing it, being fucking disappointed with results, people, football, authorities, players, agents and the whole bandwagon.

As I said, it's the only way I'd be able to stop following and supporting the Villa.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
£8m wage bill?

Yes, the latest installment

I doubt it's correct though.  The last set of accounts had the wage bill as somewhere around £53m.  For it to be £8m next month the annual figure would need to have nearly doubled, Bruce spent stupid money on wages but not that stupid. Something closer to £5m seems more realistic.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Stu on June 06, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
I'd never watch another game of football again if Villa went out of existence. I dont have any interest in football outside of Villa as it is, and I wouldn't be spending money on something I didn't really give a shit about.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 05:56:21 PM
£8m wage bill?

Yes, the latest installment

I doubt it's correct though.  The last set of accounts had the wage bill as somewhere around £53m.  For it to be £8m next month the annual figure would need to have nearly doubled, Bruce spent stupid money on wages but not that stupid. Something closer to £5m seems more realistic.


yeah i couldn't work that out either, seeing only whelan and elmo would be added to that and loads have left since that figure. Paper talk i guess. Probably other bills stacking up though.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Gido82 on June 06, 2018, 06:18:45 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 06, 2018, 06:31:03 PM
Stan Collymore
Stan Collymore
@StanCollymore
Villa.

1. Losing £5m PM.
2. Still haven't got £2m HMRC payment.
3. Can't use BMH as loan collateral to get £2m as bank won't let us loan  against assets.
4. Owner can't get money from China
5. £22m overdraft facility withdrawn
6. 3rd year parachute payment already lent against
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: David_Nab on June 06, 2018, 06:32:37 PM
Xia wanting to hold on see futile , talk of selling players when reality is only Jack is going to bring in a profit no one we have brought under Xia will sell for more than we paid so it seems to me we may solve a short term cash flow problem but then be sanctioned for breaching FFP anyway which like going into Adminstration could entail a point deduction...its honestly a total shambles
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AsTallAsLions on June 06, 2018, 06:33:17 PM
Stan Collymore
Stan Collymore
@StanCollymore
Villa.

1. Losing £5m PM.
2. Still haven't got £2m HMRC payment.
3. Can't use BMH as loan collateral to get £2m as bank won't let us loan  against assets.
4. Owner can't get money from China
5. £22m overdraft facility withdrawn
6. 3rd year parachute payment already lent against

7. Don't call me bitter
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 06:35:42 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Nah i agree. Could possibly be the most interesting season in my memory at least. Just imagine 30,000 down Villa Park cheering on a load of kids.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 06, 2018, 06:42:59 PM
I'd be excited if we had a decent manager to coach them through their informative years and make them better players. If it was someone like Dean Smith it would soften the blow of a non existent summer transfer policy, I guess now we can't afford to sack SB.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Small Rodent on June 06, 2018, 06:43:34 PM
Have they blamed anyone yet? I need to know who to tweet death threats to.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 06, 2018, 06:43:56 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Nah i agree. Could possibly be the most interesting season in my memory at least. Just imagine 30,000 down Villa Park cheering on a load of kids.
at the HMRC PAYE Arena
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 06:46:31 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Nah i agree. Could possibly be the most interesting season in my memory at least. Just imagine 30,000 down Villa Park cheering on a load of kids.
at the HMRC PAYE Arena


heheheh. well they're all linked these government departments. The Universal Credit Arena is more apt.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brontebilly on June 06, 2018, 06:51:21 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Nah i agree. Could possibly be the most interesting season in my memory at least. Just imagine 30,000 down Villa Park cheering on a load of kids.

Getting relegated to the third division in the process
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 06:54:39 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Nah i agree. Could possibly be the most interesting season in my memory at least. Just imagine 30,000 down Villa Park cheering on a load of kids.



Getting relegated to the third division in the process

It would be dicey i agree, but what a ride. And lets face it, better relegated that gone totally. And y'know wouldn't be the first time and we didn't do too badly on the way back up. ;)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: montague on June 06, 2018, 06:56:11 PM
I'd be excited if we had a decent manager to coach them through their informative years and make them better players. If it was someone like Dean Smith it would soften the blow of a non existent summer transfer policy, I guess now we can't afford to sack SB.

I would say the last thing we need to do at the moment is change manager
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villadelph on June 06, 2018, 06:58:09 PM
Have they blamed anyone yet? I need to know who to tweet death threats to.

Haha, needed that!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 06, 2018, 07:04:09 PM
Stan Collymore
Stan Collymore
@StanCollymore
Villa.

1. Losing £5m PM.
2. Still haven't got £2m HMRC payment.
3. Can't use BMH as loan collateral to get £2m as bank won't let us loan  against assets.
4. Owner can't get money from China
5. £22m overdraft facility withdrawn
6. 3rd year parachute payment already lent against

7. Don't call me bitter
He is a closet Wolves fan
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: boozey182 on June 06, 2018, 07:05:41 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

How about this: This American chap offers to buy 51% of the club from Tony Xia, at the club's current value (ie much less than Xia paid), on the condition that Xia invests that money back into the club. It wouldn't be Chinese money, so there should be no problem there. Written into the deal is that when/if we get promoted again, the remaining 49% is sold at the price Xia paid (which would be much less than what it would be worth). This way Xia saves face and makes a much smaller loss, the American chap gets himself a Premier League club at a shitshambles price and we can forget this ever happened.

Of course, in order to assure we were promoted we'd have to keep Jack and buy a load of old, largely shit players on massive wages have a well thought out, strategic plan that builds around a solid youth base. So that would be implemented.

In the unlikely event we don't get promoted in the next couple of years, well, then we're probably going to be really in the shit. But maybe being in the shit in two years sounds infinitely more appealing than being in the shit right now.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2018, 07:10:12 PM
To be quite honest, I'm sick of this. What a waste of everybody's time, money and energy. Administration, winding up orders, fire sales. Dragging our arses around the country, buying replica tat, revelling in a win, being pissed off at a loss...it hasn't been worth it, has it?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: alan_clarke on June 06, 2018, 07:10:53 PM
Where is Stan getting the idea that fans need to raise £125m to buy 51% of the club. If another buyer comes in they certainly won't be paying that much to take us on...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Davkaus on June 06, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
To be quite honest, I'm sick of this. What a waste of everybody's time, money and energy. Administration, winding up orders, fire sales. Dragging our arses around the country, buying replica tat, revelling in a win, being pissed off at a loss...it hasn't been worth it, has it?


Sometimes when I feel like I've wasted my weekend, the phrase "time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted time" pops in to my head.

Then I try to think of what percentage of my time following Villa has been enjoyed. It's not what I'd call high.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 06, 2018, 07:13:02 PM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

How about this: This American chap offers to buy 51% of the club from Tony Xia, at the club's current value (ie much less than Xia paid), on the condition that Xia invests that money back into the club. It wouldn't be Chinese money, so there should be no problem there. Written into the deal is that when/if we get promoted again, the remaining 49% is sold at the price Xia paid (which would be much less than what it would be worth). This way Xia saves face and makes a much smaller loss, the American chap gets himself a Premier League club at a shitshambles price and we can forget this ever happened.

Of course, in order to assure we were promoted we'd have to keep Jack and buy a load of old, largely shit players on massive wages have a well thought out, strategic plan that builds around a solid youth base. So that would be implemented.

In the unlikely event we don't get promoted in the next couple of years, well, then we're probably going to be really in the shit. But maybe being in the shit in two years sounds infinitely more appealing than being in the shit right now.
I like your thinking ....all we need now is a gullible American  willing to invest  :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 07:19:10 PM
To be quite honest, I'm sick of this. What a waste of everybody's time, money and energy. Administration, winding up orders, fire sales. Dragging our arses around the country, buying replica tat, revelling in a win, being pissed off at a loss...it hasn't been worth it, has it?


You need to stop wallowing in the depression and the misery and the fact we're not going to be in the premier anytime soon. Took me only a day to snap out of it and i'm a complete miserable bastard. End of the day, we're Aston Villa and we'll survive, we get attendances in the championship half the premiership can't manage so if the worse comes to the worse someone will see us as the best/only chance of acquiring a massive premiership club. so fuck the owners, fuck the papers, fuck the HMRC and think positive.

Wrong thread really but y'know.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Gido82 on June 06, 2018, 07:23:34 PM
Exactly this...
I haven't had real joy from Villa since the mid 90s and I guessing that had a lot to do with childhood optimism. We're in the shit no doubt but we won't be ringing round looking to get 11 players on the pitch! Owners and players come and go and all that...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 06, 2018, 07:25:15 PM
“The HMRC” is what collects the money to pay for the NHS etc, therefore I’d prefer it if Villa did not fail to meet their obligations
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 06, 2018, 07:27:06 PM
You need to stop wallowing in the depression and the misery and the fact we're not going to be in the premier anytime soon. Took me only a day to snap out of it and i'm a complete miserable bastard. End of the day, we're Aston Villa and we'll survive, we get attendances in the championship half the premiership can't manage so if the worse comes to the worse someone will see us as the best/only chance of acquiring a massive premiership club. so fuck the owners, fuck the papers, fuck the HMRC and think positive.

Yup
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 06, 2018, 07:28:49 PM
The worst thing is we are on a continual refresh of here, twitter, newsnow etc... I become consumed by reading about how shit Villa are, and have been for nearly 20 years since forums began. Before that I'd read the papers etc and teletext and that would be enough. Now it consumes me. Why! What for? Where is the enjoyment.... But I know I can't and won't stop. Don't stop the beeping Villa. Flatline now there will be a lot of folks with too much free time and a lot of sorrows to drown.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 07:34:10 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 07:35:16 PM
Amidst all the chaos and confusion is anyone else a tad excited to see a youthful team full of academy graduates? Trying to look on the bright side here ..possibly clutching at straws.

Will done Gido we need a bit of optimism around here, shame they are likely to sell the Recon Academy or whatever it’s called to keep us afloat!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john2710 on June 06, 2018, 07:41:20 PM
To be quite honest, I'm sick of this. What a waste of everybody's time, money and energy. Administration, winding up orders, fire sales. Dragging our arses around the country, buying replica tat, revelling in a win, being pissed off at a loss...it hasn't been worth it, has it?


You need to stop wallowing in the depression and the misery and the fact we're not going to be in the premier anytime soon. Took me only a day to snap out of it and i'm a complete miserable bastard. End of the day, we're Aston Villa and we'll survive, we get attendances in the championship half the premiership can't manage so if the worse comes to the worse someone will see us as the best/only chance of acquiring a massive premiership club. so fuck the owners, fuck the papers, fuck the HMRC and think positive.

Wrong thread really but y'know.
.

Amen
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 07:46:35 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 07:51:50 PM
The halcyon days of Emment Kapengwe and David Mwila and a young Sir Brian beckon before us. Once a Villa supporter always a Villa supporter!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.
76% enables a special resolution to  allow a majority shareholder to issue more shares and share swamp a minority shareholder.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 06, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
Quite honestly it matters not who the owner is or how wealthy they are, if you surround yourself with useless ****** you’ll get found out, it took 2 years to find this one out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2018, 07:58:55 PM
Quite honestly it matters not who the owner is or how wealthy they are, if you surround yourself with useless c***s you’ll get found out, it took 2 years to find this one out.

Useless, and self serving it sounds like.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wozwebs on June 06, 2018, 08:01:02 PM
Makes you want to give up and follow something boring like Golf.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 08:03:39 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to Chinese Takeaway, but I still don’t get how all of the other Chinese owners are getting away with the controls
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 06, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to Chinese Takeaway, but I still don’t get how all of the other Chinese owners are getting away with the controls

It's a question worth asking. How many other Chinese owners are their in the English game ?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 06, 2018, 08:05:29 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to Chinese Takeaway, but I still don’t get how all of the other Chinese owners are getting away with the controls

They have other business interests in Europe.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 08:07:27 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to Chinese Takeaway, but I still don’t get how all of the other Chinese owners are getting away with the controls

They have other business interests in Europe.

Even so the controls will affect those interests won’t they? Ok it’s secondary but it’s still all shaky ground isn’t it?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 08:10:14 PM
We don’t know if the issue is the Chinese Monetary Controlls or if the owner has access to the levels of cash needed to sustain us.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2018, 08:11:16 PM
Local rag:
Quote

Aston Villa will not be going into administration and are confident of solving their cash-flow crisis, sources have told BirminghamLive.

Owner Dr Tony Xia has today received positive news that a £2million loan has been approved so the outstanding tax bill will soon be cleared.

It’s understood that Xia is doing everything possible to keep hold of the club he purchased in 2016 having invested over £150m.

Several leading football finance experts have backed up claims from sources close to the club who are adamant Villa's current crisis will not see them file for administration.

alk of Villa plunging to depths previously seen at the likes of Portsmouth and Leeds United has also been quashed.

Villa have serious short-term cash flow problems and are understood to be seeking minor investment.

Xia has also faced up to the reality of losing key players, including £30million-rated prized asset Jack Grealish.

The club are looking at ways to slash their sky-high wage bill and are even considering selling Brookvale - the staff car park close to Villa Park.

But it’s understood that solutions will soon be in place and then Villa can start preparing for the 2018/19 season, albeit on a significantly reduced budget.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 06, 2018, 08:16:01 PM
Makes you want to give up and follow something boring like Golf.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Ever.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 08:17:23 PM
 Now this would be taking the piss http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/06/06/report-southampton-weighing-up-3-4m-bids-for-aston-villa-youngst/
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 08:20:16 PM
Now this would be taking the piss http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/06/06/report-southampton-weighing-up-3-4m-bids-for-aston-villa-youngst/

Please god no.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
Whatever happens Xia will have to go, his ownership has been a total disaster. There would be no trust ever again in anything the fantasist says.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 06, 2018, 08:29:02 PM
Whatever happens Xia will have to go, his ownership has been a total disaster. There would be no trust ever again in anything the fantasist says.

After the last two owners, it’s going to be difficult to trust any regime at the club in future.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: frank black on June 06, 2018, 08:29:07 PM
Now this would be taking the piss http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/06/06/report-southampton-weighing-up-3-4m-bids-for-aston-villa-youngst/

Please god no.

This was always going to happen. Sensibly run clubs looking for young bargains with future sell on potential. Take note Tony
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 06, 2018, 08:29:57 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to Chinese Takeaway, but I still don’t get how all of the other Chinese owners are getting away with the controls

They have other business interests in Europe.

Which makes you wonder why Tony has not sorted something like that before now to route money into/ through.

One figure that keeps bothering me is this £5million a month loss.

That supposes we are spending 7-8 million a month. My question would be on what? Player wages are high, but around 60 million is a season, so 5 million a month. Where is the other 3 million going? Our income is approximately 3 million ish a month I reckon, so overall, we are spending mad money each month on something.

If you then take Gabby, Terry, Snodgrass, Johnstone, Onomah, Hutton, Grabban and Tuanzebe off that, there is close to a million a month in wages and loan fees. So this loss each month, are the club generally carrying too many other staff too, which is driving up costs each month off the pitch? Surely we need to forget caring about FFP for 5 minutes and concentrate on finding homes for Richards, McCormack, Hogan, Lansbury and probably Jedinak. That would be well over 500k a month saved between them. If we shifted that lot we would be much better off clearly financially, but we would be down to more than the bare bones. What will really grieve me is the idea that we sell Grealish and Chester to fund fucking Richards and McCormack to the tune of a further 5 million between them.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 06, 2018, 08:31:53 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 08:32:53 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.
76% enables a special resolution to  allow a majority shareholder to issue more shares and share swamp a minority shareholder.

True but having only 51% doesn’t stop you doung anything meaningful.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Small Rodent on June 06, 2018, 08:33:16 PM
Now this would be taking the piss http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/06/06/report-southampton-weighing-up-3-4m-bids-for-aston-villa-youngst/

Please god no.

We are no longer in a bargaining position.

Grealish will probably go for half his worth.

Just to pay some debts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villadelph on June 06, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
Whatever happens Xia will have to go, his ownership has been a total disaster. There would be no trust ever again in anything the fantasist says.

To be fair, he hoped in 5 years Aston Villa would be mentioned alongside Real Madrid and Barcelona.. there's still time, yet.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 08:35:11 PM
Now this would be taking the piss http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/06/06/report-southampton-weighing-up-3-4m-bids-for-aston-villa-youngst/

Please god no.

This was always going to happen. Sensibly run clubs looking for young bargains with future sell on potential. Take note Tony


We'll see. If we go into next season after using the youth team to fund our monthly running costs, he's even more of an idiot than i took him for. End of the day its not going to reduce the wages bill is it? Just delaying the inevitable from running out of money in August or running out in November.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 06, 2018, 08:36:34 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?

If we’re losing 5 million a month less than a fortnight.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: myf on June 06, 2018, 08:38:01 PM
I speak for myself with this, and very selfishly, to say I'd rather we went bust, kaput and gone completely.

i'd be proud of the history, sorry about what's happened but glad and relieved I have to go through no more.

Then I'd start to support Hallam FC, the closest non-league team to me and my children would probably opt for Sheffield United as their local team (the closest team in any league or non-league etc). It would be release from this shite forever.

I hate modern football but at the same time I'm addicted to it, this would be the only way to wean myself.

I can sympathise with this. I'd be up for starting from scratch like Rangers did
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: devilla on June 06, 2018, 08:39:08 PM
Dilly Dilly

I hate that advert.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 06, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?

If we’re losing 5 million a month less than a fortnight.

Percy in the Torygraph is reporting that the loan is £6m.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 06, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
Dilly Dilly

I hate that advert.

Me too. Almost as much as the cake eating opera shit on BGT. They go in the same box of what the fuck and why are you on my telly. Lump pretty much every program my wife watches into that too.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 08:43:17 PM
One figure that keeps bothering me is this £5million a month loss.

That supposes we are spending 7-8 million a month. My question would be on what? Player wages are high, but around 60 million is a season, so 5 million a month. Where is the other 3 million going? Our income is approximately 3 million ish a month I reckon, so overall, we are spending mad money each month on something.

Installments on historic transfers, instalments of sacking compensation, general maintenance costs on two huge properties, GDPR compliance?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: frank black on June 06, 2018, 08:45:51 PM
Dilly Dilly

I hate that advert.

Me too. Almost as much as the cake eating opera shit on BGT. They go in the same box of what the fuck and why are you on my telly. Lump pretty much every program my wife watches into that too.

The silent car sales advert annoys the hell out of me. Does it’s job though and makes you look up and watch very clever marketing.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 06, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
We have always been pioneers in the game. Maybe we will be the straw that breaks the back of the super inflated, money obsessed game that football has become. Maybe it needs a huge club to go tits up for everyone else wakes up and realises everyone is one crisis away from a disaster.
Could be Chelsea next. Could be anyone if the money dries up.

Altogether now "we'll never die we'll never die, we'll keep the lions flag flying high"

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 08:46:55 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.

You need it for a lot more. That's why I make the money and you count it *winky*
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 06, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
Yes, sounds like a good idea.  Maybe change the thread title to "Factory of Sadness" though?! :)

That's Copyright Cleveland Browns though, and I don't think Villa can afford the royalties at the moment.

I'm still trying to decide which franchise I pull for is in worse shape.  The Browns have won a grand total of one game in 2 years, but Villa is on the verge of bankruptcy.  I guess the Browns can be thankful they don't have relegation in the NFL.
I was doing English language oral exams this morning and one student was telling me about his week working with a basketball club. During questioning I asked him who his favourite team was. He said "Cleveland Cavaliers" I blurted out "What? Are they any good because the Cleveland Browns are rubbish". He said they are very good. Not that I would have a clue.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 06, 2018, 08:50:24 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 06, 2018, 08:51:23 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?

If we’re losing 5 million a month less than a fortnight.

Indeed.  The real question is how is he going to plug the working capital gap that until May he was sending every month. If he as is alleged but I doubt can’t get money out of China then where is it going to come from.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 06, 2018, 08:55:48 PM
Taking a loan to pay a debt is not good.
It does not mean the debt is gone, it just means it’s moved and it’s now bigger.

If the answer to a cash flow crisis is to keep taking loans we are truly fecked, and it won’t be long before he runs out of people prepared to give the loans.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 08:56:56 PM
So basically sell anything and everything until there is nothing left it looks like to me.

The Chinese regulations haven't happened over night and still no solution to it makes me think that Dr Xia is really skint Tone. Scrambling around, selling on debts, calling in future payments, loaning against everything.

Fucking ******.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 08:58:02 PM
Taking a loan to pay a debt is not good.
It does not mean the debt is gone, it just means it’s moved and it’s now bigger.

If the answer to a cash flow crisis is to keep taking loans we are truly fecked.

I assume you won't be voting to put a Marxist in the Treasury then next General Election.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 08:58:40 PM
Next time someone tells you ''trust them, they must know what they'redoing, they're millionaires'' Just remember Lerner and this clueless twat.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 06, 2018, 09:00:27 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?

If we’re losing 5 million a month less than a fortnight.

It basically depends if you believe the cash is there and the main impediment is the flow as controlles by Chinese govt. But you've got to be sceptical!

I don't see how Xia can ever show his face at villa park again. Even if you think Wyness was acting badly and tried to sell the club from under him, its down to an incredibly reckless approach.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
So basically sell anything and everything until there is nothing left it looks like to me.

The Chinese regulations haven't happened over night and still no solution to it makes me think that Dr Xia is really skint Tone. Scrambling around, selling on debts, calling in future payments, loaning against everything.

Fucking c***.

See that doesnt make sense to me, If he was ‘only’ a multi millionaire, why has he been using up all of his wealth bankrolling a team on the other side of the world when the returns of selling when/if we got to the PL weren’t that great anyway?

The ‘can’t access his money from China’ story seems plausible to me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 06, 2018, 09:01:35 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 06, 2018, 09:02:20 PM
When's the next H&V coming out? It is going to be a collector's edition.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2018, 09:06:24 PM
Taking a loan to pay a debt is not good.
It does not mean the debt is gone, it just means it’s moved and it’s now bigger.

If the answer to a cash flow crisis is to keep taking loans we are truly fecked.

It really depends what you do next.  If the next step after seeing off the immediate cashflow crisis is to announce a new investor who's throwing a fortune into the club to keep us viable whilst we restructure and get the P&L back inline then it's reasonable and sensible. If you try to carry on without any changes hoping to sell a few players to save you then yes, you're fecked.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

So basically sell anything and everything until there is nothing left it looks like to me.

The Chinese regulations haven't happened over night and still no solution to it makes me think that Dr Xia is really skint Tone. Scrambling around, selling on debts, calling in future payments, loaning against everything.

Fucking c***.

See that doesnt make sense to me, If he was ‘only’ a multi millionaire, why has he been using up all of his wealth bankrolling a team on the other side of the world when the returns of selling when/if we got to the PL weren’t that great anyway?

The ‘can’t access his money from China’ story seems plausible to me.

It doesn't sound plausible to me that the Government would let his investment go to the wall even though he has millions and millions at home sitting there. Surely there would be some sort of offer to allow him to deal with exceptional circumstances. Not just an attitude of ''tough shit, it can go to the wall, lose all your money you've invested''

Doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: myf on June 06, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

Isn't the only way he's going to save face to sell the club? Otherwise just sounds like a spiral of despair selling players to pay debts, potential relegation and FFP sanction next year?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2018, 09:09:30 PM
I think the FFP thing is pretty much an irrelevance at the moment.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 06, 2018, 09:12:17 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2018, 09:13:37 PM
More good news.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 06, 2018, 09:13:52 PM
In Italy I think a number of clubs have been liquidated and returned (fiorentina, Parma). I think Parma have won four successive promotions

If that happened to us does anyone have a sense of where West Midlands Village or Aston Vanilla would start from?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 06, 2018, 09:15:07 PM
If there's one personal bright spot in all this for me, it's that I've never felt more connected to the club - I had no idea that we could both be such fuckwits with our finances.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 09:16:38 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC

Please mention who you are quoting in future posts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC

We couldn't have had the 2018-19 parachute payments before the play off final because you wouldn't have known if we needed them or not. That was only 2 weeks ago, how can you spend the majority of £15m in two weeks? Sounds like bollocks.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 06, 2018, 09:17:49 PM
Losing Andre Green for the 4 million being touted would be fit wrenching. This is really fucking shit.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 09:17:59 PM
What I don’t get is his grand plans for regeneration of Aston which presumably has nothing to do with being in the PL and can only have gone down the pan because the Chinese bloodline has been cut off. Oh I don’t fucking know ....
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 06, 2018, 09:18:50 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC

We couldn't have had the 2018-19 parachute payments before the play off final because you wouldn't have known if we needed them or not. That was only 2 weeks ago, how can you spend the majority of £15m in two weeks? Sounds like bollocks.

Quite easily if you owe it all to HSBC, I imagine.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC

We couldn't have had the 2018-19 parachute payments before the play off final because you wouldn't have known if we needed them or not. That was only 2 weeks ago, how can you spend the majority of £15m in two weeks? Sounds like bollocks.

Quite easily if you owe it all to HSBC, I imagine.

Edited.Misread.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 09:20:22 PM
Losing Andre Green for the 4 million being touted would be fit wrenching. This is really fucking shit.

I like what i've of seen of him but in reality he's started 8 league games in his career and hasn't exactly set the world alight, how much should we be getting for him? Or put it this way, if we were buying players (stop laughing/crying at the back) how much would you want us spending on him?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 09:21:28 PM
End of the day if tony was a total fuckwitt we could sell the entire 1st team squad for an average of £1m each and still survive well into November on running costs of 5m a month. My guess if we get offers for Kodjia, chester, grealish, adomah then at the firesale scale of the spectrum we'd still get 30m and into 2019 easily. Enough time to arrange a sale i think.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:22:10 PM
Losing Andre Green for the 4 million being touted would be fit wrenching. This is really fucking shit.

I like what i've of seen of him but in reality he's started 8 league games in his career and hasn't exactly set the world alight, how much should we be getting for him? Or put it this way, if we were buying players (stop laughing/crying at the back) how much would you want us spending on him?

£100m please. All payable in the next couple of weeks if possible.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 06, 2018, 09:22:19 PM
Aston Villa are due c£15m in 2018-19 in parachute payments. I have discovered a sizeable amount of this has already been assigned to a bank and advanced in cash at a discount to the club. This appears already to have been spent (or the HMRC bill would not be a bother). #AVFC

We couldn't have had the 2018-19 parachute payments before the play off final because you wouldn't have known if we needed them or not. That was only 2 weeks ago, how can you spend the majority of £15m in two weeks? Sounds like bollocks.

Quite easily if you owe it all to HSBC, I imagine.

But we don't owe them £15m and in fact still owe them as of now.

I was just speculating. I have no idea how much we owe, or to whom, but if we're acting this desperately then we owe it to somebody.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 09:24:08 PM
Losing Andre Green for the 4 million being touted would be fit wrenching. This is really fucking shit.

By a click bait site.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 06, 2018, 09:24:20 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
so sell chester and jack to get in 30 odd million and hes won himself a year to get his assets out of china...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 06, 2018, 09:24:52 PM
End of the day if tony was a total fuckwitt we could sell the entire 1st team squad for an average of £1m each and still survive well into November on running costs of 5m a month. My guess if we get offers for Kodjia, chester, grealish, adomah then at the firesale scale of the spectrum we'd still get 30m and into 2019 easily. Enough time to arrange a sale i think.

Well I suppose we have been demanding a clear out for a while now so our dreams are coming true🤔
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 09:25:34 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
so sell chester and jack to get in 30 odd million and hes won himself a year to get his assets out of china...

Or his ass out of Birmingham.

/baddumtish
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 09:25:54 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

So basically sell anything and everything until there is nothing left it looks like to me.

The Chinese regulations haven't happened over night and still no solution to it makes me think that Dr Xia is really skint Tone. Scrambling around, selling on debts, calling in future payments, loaning against everything.

Fucking c***.

See that doesnt make sense to me, If he was ‘only’ a multi millionaire, why has he been using up all of his wealth bankrolling a team on the other side of the world when the returns of selling when/if we got to the PL weren’t that great anyway?

The ‘can’t access his money from China’ story seems plausible to me.

It doesn't sound plausible to me that the Government would let his investment go to the wall even though he has millions and millions at home sitting there. Surely there would be some sort of offer to allow him to deal with exceptional circumstances. Not just an attitude of ''tough shit, it can go to the wall, lose all your money you've invested''

Doesn't make sense to me.
I don’t buy the cant get the money out of China either, there has been a tightening up but it’s being suggested that there is a complete lock down and I can tell you there has not.
If he has the money but needs to apply for exchange control he could walk a proof of funds letter down to the bank.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
so sell chester and jack to get in 30 odd million and hes won himself a year to get his assets out of china...


well not quite. its not just wages we're paying out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 06, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...
true but i guess that gets rid of problem number one and the immediate threat of insolvency and him losing his investment

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
so sell chester and jack to get in 30 odd million and hes won himself a year to get his assets out of china...


well not quite. its not just wages we're paying out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 09:28:17 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

So basically sell anything and everything until there is nothing left it looks like to me.

The Chinese regulations haven't happened over night and still no solution to it makes me think that Dr Xia is really skint Tone. Scrambling around, selling on debts, calling in future payments, loaning against everything.

Fucking c***.

See that doesnt make sense to me, If he was ‘only’ a multi millionaire, why has he been using up all of his wealth bankrolling a team on the other side of the world when the returns of selling when/if we got to the PL weren’t that great anyway?

The ‘can’t access his money from China’ story seems plausible to me.

It doesn't sound plausible to me that the Government would let his investment go to the wall even though he has millions and millions at home sitting there. Surely there would be some sort of offer to allow him to deal with exceptional circumstances. Not just an attitude of ''tough shit, it can go to the wall, lose all your money you've invested''

Doesn't make sense to me.
I don’t buy the cant get the money out of China either, there has been a tightening up but it’s being suggested that there is a complete lock down and I can tell you there has not.
If he has the money but needs to apply for exchange control he could walk a proof of funds letter down to the bank.

What do you know? What have you heard?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:29:27 PM
He doesn't have the money. That's my take on it. If you have to come up with an increasing number of excuses as to why what should happen hasn't then it's normally because there is something wrong.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 09:30:32 PM
What do you know? What have you heard?

It's on the OS.




*Sorry CL but had to be done!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on June 06, 2018, 09:35:15 PM

As it stands i'm more inclined to believe Stan's assumption that Wyness is the main guilty party rather than The Mirror's piece which was seemingly written by Wyness himself putting all blame on Xia

But who knows. Wyness has certainly got his side across quick via Nursery though



What piece is this? I can't see owt
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 09:38:52 PM
What do you know? What have you heard?

It's on the OS.





*Sorry CL but had to be done!
Fair cop :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: myf on June 06, 2018, 09:39:42 PM
I think the FFP thing is pretty much an irrelevance at the moment.

In the context of current cash flow problems yes but another massive and likely insurmountable hurdle for 2019 and another reason for him to sell up
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 06, 2018, 09:39:53 PM
It's entirely possible that Wyness has done all the stuff in stan's piece

But that could have been in response to recognising the unavoidable shit fest that was coming - whatever you think of his motives

A little earlier today I started to think, maybe it's not as bad as Leeds. I'm now worried that it's worse. Although I'm sure at least some of the domesday speculation is wrong, because it always is
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 06, 2018, 09:43:25 PM
What I don’t get is his grand plans for regeneration of Aston which presumably has nothing to do with being in the PL and can only have gone down the pan because the Chinese bloodline has been cut off. Oh I don’t fucking know ....

I reckon it had a lot to do with us being a PL side. That becomes the global focal point for the place, instantly known as the home of an English Premier League side to people worldwide.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 06, 2018, 09:46:58 PM
My trouble with Wyness is he was crawling all over the media 6 months ago saying he had a plan if we didn't go up. Well where is it?

If plan b) was Tony investing a certain amount each month to keep our heads above water, well he obviously didn't really investigate much
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on June 06, 2018, 09:47:30 PM
Well all the clubs in the midlands are under Chinese ownership so how does that effect them?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 06, 2018, 09:48:11 PM
Well all the clubs in the midlands are under Chinese ownership so how does that effect them?

All the other owners have European businesses, I believe.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 06, 2018, 09:49:07 PM
Well all the clubs in the midlands are under Chinese ownership so how does that effect them?

Supposedly as Fosun already had overseas ventures they can move money out of China easier. The bitters were in the PL so time will tell what their situation is now that gravy train has stopped, and sha are reportedly in the crapper as well.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 06, 2018, 09:52:51 PM
Let me get this straight, all the other clubs have European businesses that plunge money in to the club to get around the financial controls of China?

Wouldn't A those businesses soon go bump, unless they were large profit making ones
And B wouldn't it show in their accounts that they were receiving money pumped in from various sources?

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 09:55:03 PM
So if Tony Xia had money, and could move it out of China into Villa but now can’t, and has been factoring against income since January, does that tend to indicate that he had unknown backers over there and it’s them who have pulled the plug?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: amfy on June 06, 2018, 09:55:18 PM
Well all the clubs in the midlands are under Chinese ownership so how does that effect them?

All the other owners have European businesses, I believe.

I also think Birmingham City are also in some difficulty, Albion have only just got relegated and still have parachute money to look forward to, and Woves might have been in worse trouble than us if they didn't go up, but they did.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 06, 2018, 10:02:58 PM
How long is a 2m loan going to keep the wolves from the door?

At least one season. They were promoted, weren't they.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Keeno on June 06, 2018, 10:04:44 PM
The stories about us avoiding administration tonight through further borrowing have me worried even more...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on June 06, 2018, 10:11:49 PM
Word of caution. If you were a potential investor/purchaser of Aston Villa FC would you buy now, or at a later date when it'll cost them next to nothing? Struggling to see a way out of this, potential investors/owners will bide their time - can't see a way out of this any day soon. At least we'll have a nice new kit eh?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 10:19:09 PM
Word of caution. If you were a potential investor/purchaser of Aston Villa FC would you buy now, or at a later date when it'll cost them next to nothing? Struggling to see a way out of this, potential investors/owners will bide their time - can't see a way out of this any day soon. At least we'll have a nice new kit eh?
Before Administration and points deduction.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 10:21:58 PM
More Rumors that   Freund making bid.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 10:23:31 PM
A freund in need is a Freund indeed.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.

You need it for a lot more. That's why I make the money and you count it *winky*

Alright Harvey Spector! 😉

Point I was making is that 51% is enough to control a company and make the decisions you need. Obviously when you get to 75%+ you can change the articles and start to do pretty much what you want, eg with share capital etc.



Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2018, 10:24:27 PM
More Rumors that   Freund making bid.
Wir brauchen jetzt einen Freund
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 06, 2018, 10:25:21 PM
A freund in need is a Freund indeed.

A Freund with weed is better.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Keeno on June 06, 2018, 10:26:05 PM
Word of caution. If you were a potential investor/purchaser of Aston Villa FC would you buy now, or at a later date when it'll cost them next to nothing? Struggling to see a way out of this, potential investors/owners will bide their time - can't see a way out of this any day soon. At least we'll have a nice new kit eh?

That's why I think if we want rid of Xia, gritting our teeth through administration and waiting for someone to come in might be the best case scenario to a new owner and (potential) sustainability going forward.. Knowing our luck it'll be someone even worse though
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andrew08 on June 06, 2018, 10:29:22 PM
We don’t know any detail really about Villa’s finances or what is reported is true, but I think we should be encouraged today that our owner has found a way to find some money to pay HMRC. Today would have been an ideal time for him to just walk away and cut his losses, money paid to HMRC benefits only the public purse and not the football club at all (this is good though it pays Nurses etc etc and not Micah Richards)

He’s not likely to get a return on his investment anytime soon so perhaps this is the start of a return to a more sustainable future and demonstrates at least some commitment from him.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 06, 2018, 10:32:59 PM
More Rumors that   Freund making bid.
Is that a rehash of yesterday’s news or new info CL?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 06, 2018, 10:33:01 PM
A freund in need is a Freund indeed.
He may rename the Trinity Road Stand - Trinity Packaging Trinty Road Stand :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 10:33:59 PM
More Rumors that   Freund making bid.
Is that a rehash of yesterday’s news or new info CL?
New sources.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 10:34:02 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.

You need it for a lot more. That's why I make the money and you count it *winky*

Alright Harvey Spector! 😉

Point I was making is that 51% is enough to control a company and make the decisions you need. Obviously when you get to 75%+ you can change the articles and start to do pretty much what you want, eg with share capital etc.





I wish I had a Donna.

I was only pulling your leg.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 06, 2018, 10:35:59 PM
I married my Secretary.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: chrisf on June 06, 2018, 10:39:14 PM
A freund in need is a Freund indeed.

A Freund with weed is better.

Damn more Placebo on the brain.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 10:42:32 PM
Wonder what the BMH renaming was all about if there wasn’t any money to pump in?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: myf on June 06, 2018, 10:43:11 PM
We don’t know any detail really about Villa’s finances or what is reported is true, but I think we should be encouraged today that our owner has found a way to find some money to pay HMRC. Today would have been an ideal time for him to just walk away and cut his losses, money paid to HMRC benefits only the public purse and not the football club at all (this is good though it pays Nurses etc etc and not Micah Richards)

He’s not likely to get a return on his investment anytime soon so perhaps this is the start of a return to a more sustainable future and demonstrates at least some commitment from him.

Still trying to work out if this is sarcasm?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 06, 2018, 10:46:41 PM
Wonder what the BMH renaming was all about if there wasn’t any money to pump in?
The world looked a lot different before last Saturday.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 10:49:37 PM
Owning 51% of a company would not allow you to pass a special measure. You'd want north of 75% for de facto ownership. S.571 CA06 in particular.

51% would let you pass an ordinary resolution only, so you'd want 76% at least.

Not that you want to confuse ownership and control of a company mind.

You only need a special resolution for things like changing the company name and articles of association.

You need it for a lot more. That's why I make the money and you count it *winky*

Alright Harvey Spector! 😉

Point I was making is that 51% is enough to control a company and make the decisions you need. Obviously when you get to 75%+ you can change the articles and start to do pretty much what you want, eg with share capital etc.





I wish I had a Donna.

I was only pulling your leg.

I know, hence the winky!  And you can keep your filthy northern mitts off Donna, Louis Litt, I most definitely saw her first!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 10:51:11 PM
I would fight you for her. With pistols if needs be.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 10:53:55 PM
The two problems I have with Suits are the perception it gives people that we only have 1 client at any given moment and the amount of clothes Donna wears.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 06, 2018, 10:54:53 PM
Wonder what the BMH renaming was all about if there wasn’t any money to pump in?
The world looked a lot different before last Saturday.

But that could only have been done to avoid FFP and it wouldn’t have mattered if we’d gone up. If the money had stopped coming in there doesn’t seem to be a reason to have gone ahead and renamed it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: rob_bridge on June 06, 2018, 10:57:16 PM
What a Fucking Shit Decade we have had.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 06, 2018, 10:59:32 PM
I would fight you for her. With pistols if needs be.


6 weeks until the new series.  Even if we don't have a club left to support, at least Suits is back. And it's got Katherine Heigl in it, a more than adequate replacement for Princess Megan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 06, 2018, 11:04:49 PM
I would fight you for her. With pistols if needs be.


6 weeks until the new series.  Even if we don't have a club left to support, at least Suits is back. And it's got Katherine Heigl in it, a more than adequate replacement for Princess Megan.

At least we have our priorities right!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: rob_bridge on June 06, 2018, 11:17:58 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

Indeed. More than most can even conceive or have any appreciation. My Father in Law works in Shanghai
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: David_Nab on June 06, 2018, 11:28:17 PM
So what i'd like to know is this Xia know the level of wages being paid out was he aware that all his money coming in was being used up ?

Who signed off on the contracts , I do recall Xia not being keen on the Snodgrass move for instance but seeming to reluctantly go along with it .Was he so guliable /  trusting to just agree to what Wyness said

On Wyness he worked at Everton back when they had little cash and would have paid modest wages so why in the hell did we start paying 30-40 k wages in the championship when clearly no one else in the league was paying near that .Infact the argument made against Wolves was they were claiming to be paying the big signings modest salaries  with the insinuation being they were being paid  by Mendez under the table

I recall for instance McCormack was being chased by Norwich when we signed him , they were clearly not going to pay 40k a week and Fulham were not going to be paying him that either so why did we go so high ..
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on June 06, 2018, 11:52:33 PM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

Indeed. More than most can even conceive or have any appreciation. My Father in Law works in Shanghai

In Japan public failure carries a deep stigma and is almost the ultimate shame. It's also in the Japanese psyche to take personal responsibility for failure. I don't know if the same is true of China but if it is I imagine our owner will be taking this very hard indeed.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Villafirst on June 07, 2018, 05:41:24 AM
Dr Xia isn't fit to run this great club. New owners are a must. Xia has lost any credibility with the supporters. The club has gone back years; the new Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday etc.,
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Axl Rose on June 07, 2018, 05:52:00 AM
Many cries and whispers on social media tonight, but one interesting tidbit was that controls in China haven't changed outlandishly in recent months, but it can happen at random to people and companies with not much notice given. Also, the concept of 'saving face' seems incredibly important in that culture.

Indeed. More than most can even conceive or have any appreciation. My Father in Law works in Shanghai

In Japan public failure carries a deep stigma and is almost the ultimate shame. It's also in the Japanese psyche to take personal responsibility for failure. I don't know if the same is true of China but if it is I imagine our owner will be taking this very hard indeed.

Absolutely spot on, mate.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 07, 2018, 06:18:11 AM
I would fight you for her. With pistols if needs be.


6 weeks until the new series.  Even if we don't have a club left to support, at least Suits is back. And it's got Katherine Heigl in it, a more than adequate replacement for Princess Megan.

While you pair fight for Donna I will have Scotty. Be interesting to see what it's like without Mike. Bit shruggy about Rachel going but Mike will be a big miss.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 07, 2018, 06:21:49 AM
Don't give too much away, please. I haven't finished series/season 5 yet.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Villafirst on June 07, 2018, 06:27:33 AM
Scarily reminiscent of Leeds in 2007. Ridsdale banked on Champions League qualification in the preceding seasons with heavy financial investment on players and failed.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 06:51:15 AM
I knew we were gambling and settled with myself to ignore it until we knew our fate

I never imagined it was this reckless. It looks every bit as bad as Leeds from what we've been seeing, but with fewer players we can sell for a profit

I can't see why anyone would want to buy villa at the moment. You'd just wait a year or two until either administration or at least we've had to pay off more of our outstanding liabilities from all that profligacy wouldn't you?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 07, 2018, 06:57:20 AM
By which time we might not own the training ground or Villa Park. I hope there is a middle ground of realisation and Tony sells cheaply for the good of the place.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2018, 07:07:23 AM
I just don’t get who would want to buy the club. It sounds like they’d be inheriting an absolute basket case.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: martin o`who?? on June 07, 2018, 07:33:52 AM
Ridiculous to think that one goal could cause all this.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 07:40:52 AM
Wonder what the BMH renaming was all about if there wasn’t any money to pump in?

All part of the house of cards and we fell for it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: McGraths Dry Cleaning on June 07, 2018, 07:47:10 AM
Ridiculous to think that one goal could cause all this.
One goal didn't cause all this - its been years of decline, poor management in the wider sense and poor decision making. Villa has been dysfunctional for years and we've forgot how to be a competitive football club. The world's moved on but we havenn't.

Someone will always be interested in buying Villa. The potential is there with the support and facilities. Dark times ahead for sure but we need to move on. Supporters too. Sometimes threads on here read like an episode of whatever happened to the likely lads. Wallowing in nostalgia isn't going to make us competitive again. I've been going since the late 70's but the club needs to modernise. Too many people involved in Villa think we just have to turn up. Like we did against "little" Fulham.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: tony scott on June 07, 2018, 07:51:17 AM
I think a fire sale ,of Kodjia Albert A  J Grealish Chester Lansbury ,Deep Breath ,Green and Davis would bring in a tidy amount,and reduce the wage bill and weaken the squad ;however would still be able to field a team ,albeit a mixed bag of veterans and youth.  Our running costswould then be further reduced  having already been so by out of contract players and returned loans it can be done let’s grit our teeth.


Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 07, 2018, 08:18:25 AM
I keep on reading comments about selling BMH. Other than a compulsory purchase of part of it for HS2, is there any value in the remainder due to it being greenbelt land.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: FranzBiberkopf on June 07, 2018, 08:18:39 AM
No club in their right mind would buy anyone off us now. Wait a week or two until the administrators are in and then get them for a fraction of the price or even for free (to get them.off our wage bill).

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 07, 2018, 08:21:19 AM
HS2 isn’t going to hit BMH until 2025 is it?  In which case they could agree a sale and leaseback I suppose?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: devilla on June 07, 2018, 08:31:09 AM
Anybody got Prince William's phone number?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 07, 2018, 08:51:34 AM
We don’t know any detail really about Villa’s finances or what is reported is true, but I think we should be encouraged today that our owner has found a way to find some money to pay HMRC. Today would have been an ideal time for him to just walk away and cut his losses, money paid to HMRC benefits only the public purse and not the football club at all (this is good though it pays Nurses etc etc and not Micah Richards)

He’s not likely to get a return on his investment anytime soon so perhaps this is the start of a return to a more sustainable future and demonstrates at least some commitment from him.

Hope so. I was completely seduced by his visions of a Smart Witton.
Seriously, now another decade of not even giving the back of the North a fucking good power-hose.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 07, 2018, 08:57:03 AM
Despite all the waffle, it seems to me that it's little more than a cash flow problem, the details of which are sketchy. Whoever was finding the money from China has pulled the plug on the payment for May, the reasons for that and whether its permanent or not we don't know. Wyness is suspended, we don't know why but it sounds like he's not of the same opinion as Xia on how to resolve the issue so Xia has suspended him with an 'if you want a job done properly do it yourself' attitude. Xia has very quickly got out of the initial mess with time to move players on and straighten the books for quite a bit longer. We are even now talking about bringing players in which I suppose you would expect considering quite a few will have to go. As long as Xia, Round and Bruce etc are clever about this and get some good business done we could even be competitive in the division next season. Personally I think the mass hysteria should certainly die down now.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Nev on June 07, 2018, 08:58:21 AM
Despite all the waffle, it seems to me that it's little more than a cash flow problem, the details of which are sketchy. Whoever was finding the money from China has pulled the plug on the payment for May, the reasons for that and whether its permanent or not we don't know. Wyness is suspended, we don't know why but it sounds like he's not of the same opinion as Xia on how to resolve the issue so Xia has suspended him with an 'if you want a job done properly do it yourself' attitude. Xia has very quickly got out of the initial mess with time to move players on and straighten the books for quite a bit longer. We are even now talking about bringing players in which I suppose you would expect considering quite a few will have to go. As long as Xia, Round and Bruce etc are clever about this and get some good business done we could even be competitive in the division next season. Personally I think the mass hysteria should certainly die down now.

Fuck me, I do hope you are correct.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ktvillan on June 07, 2018, 08:59:33 AM
Been away for a few days and only just seen that my beloved club has been turned into a clusterfuck x omnishambles x shitstorm by Wyness and Xia.  Wyness said at the fan forum there was a plan for if we didn't get promoted.   Which now appears to be to go into administration.  Fuck me how do these people get these jobs?   
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 07, 2018, 09:04:45 AM
Despite all the waffle, it seems to me that it's little more than a cash flow problem, the details of which are sketchy. Whoever was finding the money from China has pulled the plug on the payment for May, the reasons for that and whether its permanent or not we don't know. Wyness is suspended, we don't know why but it sounds like he's not of the same opinion as Xia on how to resolve the issue so Xia has suspended him with an 'if you want a job done properly do it yourself' attitude. Xia has very quickly got out of the initial mess with time to move players on and straighten the books for quite a bit longer. We are even now talking about bringing players in which I suppose you would expect considering quite a few will have to go. As long as Xia, Round and Bruce etc are clever about this and get some good business done we could even be competitive in the division next season. Personally I think the mass hysteria should certainly die down now.

How have we got out of the initial mess which time to sort things out for a bit longer?

We've agreed a deal to get more time to pay last month's paye bill. Next month's (plus the rest of the wage bill) is still coming, though. And the month after, and the month after and so on.

I fear things are going to get much worse before they start to get better.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: oldhill_avfc on June 07, 2018, 09:11:51 AM
The Chinese stopped payments well before May.

Otherwise why would be looking at factoring future income?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 07, 2018, 09:16:21 AM
Despite all the waffle, it seems to me that it's little more than a cash flow problem, the details of which are sketchy. Whoever was finding the money from China has pulled the plug on the payment for May, the reasons for that and whether its permanent or not we don't know. Wyness is suspended, we don't know why but it sounds like he's not of the same opinion as Xia on how to resolve the issue so Xia has suspended him with an 'if you want a job done properly do it yourself' attitude. Xia has very quickly got out of the initial mess with time to move players on and straighten the books for quite a bit longer. We are even now talking about bringing players in which I suppose you would expect considering quite a few will have to go. As long as Xia, Round and Bruce etc are clever about this and get some good business done we could even be competitive in the division next season. Personally I think the mass hysteria should certainly die down now.

How have we got out of the initial mess which time to sort things out for a bit longer?

We've agreed a deal to get more time to pay last month's paye bill. Next month's (plus the rest of the wage bill) is still coming, though. And the month after, and the month after and so on.

I fear things are going to get much worse before they start to get better.

Well, the worse case scenario is that we pull in a big wad of money from player sales and that only keeps us going until early next year. Players coming in will be youth, free transfers or maybe very cheap deals. If not played correctly we will be bottom half next season, with a bit of a worry on finances towards the end of the season. Xia would have time to try to resolve in other ways, it seems to me he needs to be much more involved currently.
If this is the best we can hope for I hope we get bought out, which is a real possibility. Otherwise, as I say, my thoughts are that actually Xia will still be able to run the club sufficiently and only FFP will stand in the way otherwise, but if we play the transfer market well we could still have a decent team out there every week.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 09:29:35 AM
HS2 isn’t going to hit BMH until 2025 is it?  In which case they could agree a sale and leaseback I suppose?

Land being used for HS2 in that area has already been paid for in some cases, we’ve probably already had it and spent it on something important. Hope Gabby enjoys today’s Shisha pipe in Dubai.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 07, 2018, 09:33:03 AM
No club in their right mind would buy anyone off us now. Wait a week or two until the administrators are in and then get them for a fraction of the price or even for free (to get them.off our wage bill).

It wouldn't work like that.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
Wyness said at the fan forum there was a plan for if we didn't get promoted.   Which now appears to be to go into administration.  Fuck me how do these people get these jobs?   

To be fair he didn’t say it was a good plan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 07, 2018, 09:58:37 AM
Wyness said at the fan forum there was a plan for if we didn't get promoted.   Which now appears to be to go into administration.  Fuck me how do these people get these jobs?   

To be fair he didn’t say it was a good plan.
Did he say "I have a cunning plan?"
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: yammers on June 07, 2018, 10:19:24 AM
Why don’t they be honest with us all and say we’re in shit and need your help. We took nearly 40,000 Wembley and clearly have at least that many with a client reference, if they asked me for say £50 I’d give it, if 40,000 of us did that then that’s £2 mill to help with the bills
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Boz on June 07, 2018, 10:36:40 AM
But would you trust them to use it wisely, given their performance to date?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: itbrvilla on June 07, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
What the fuck is going on?!?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 10:50:39 AM
One bright spot so far, nobody has interviewed Dwight Yorke for his opinion.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chris Jameson on June 07, 2018, 10:53:15 AM
I (and others on here) have thought for years that one day a really big club will go under, never thought Villa might well be that club.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2018, 11:14:13 AM
What the fuck is going on?!?

Owning a football club is an easier way to lose money than burning a million quid.

Mu Mu

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2018, 11:16:35 AM
I (and others on here) have thought for years that one day a really big club will go under, never thought Villa might well be that club.

Given the (unfair in my opinion) 'football creditors rule', it's no surprise really that HMRC, after failing to overturn the rule, would start stepping in faster when football clubs are late with payments
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 07, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
If we are haemorrhaging money like we believe, how many of players (who ultimately let us down) would say to the club, I am prepared to take a 1 month pay break to help,with cash flow ( like terry did by all accounts).

Yes I know the argument will be why should they ?or would you take a pay cut? Or would you give up a months salary?

But, these blokes can afford it. Missing 1 months money is not going to send any of them to the food banks?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: OzVilla on June 07, 2018, 11:45:18 AM
Certainly Richards and McCormack could do their reputations a lot of good if they did.  They won't though.  Modern day football, fucking great.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 07, 2018, 12:15:02 PM
Just read an article stating that Xia could face jail time in China for wasting his money on us. The guy who's head of Fosun who own Wolves was arrested for questioning over the same thing. My question to Dr Tony is this. " Knowing how difficult it is for Chinese citizens to "export" your money out of the country why the fuck did you buy the villa and make all those bold predictions?"
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Holy Trinity on June 07, 2018, 12:21:42 PM
I think he's off and just trying to posture to make it look like he's not desperate to sell.

Same with today's statement it all stinks of "it's not my fault and I don't have to sell"
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Villa Lew on June 07, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
At last some good news, deal made with HMRC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44399227






Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chris Jameson on June 07, 2018, 12:44:20 PM
Great stuff, the Champions League dream is back on.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 07, 2018, 12:46:40 PM
At last some good news, deal made with HMRC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44399227







Mate, until there is a massive influx of revenue/cash there is no ‘good news’.
All we are doing is setting ourselves up to lurch from one crisis to another.

For ‘ financial issues at Villa in June’  read the same for July, August...........
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 07, 2018, 12:58:40 PM
On the bright side that estimate 5m a month loss includes wages of the loan players and the players who are out of contract, so it'll only be 3.5m a month come end of july...
reported :)

yep i reckon with terry, snodgrass, gabby, hutton, grabban, samba, johnstone etc.. going thats the thick end of a million off it
so sell chester and jack to get in 30 odd million and hes won himself a year to get his assets out of china...

Or his ass out of Birmingham.

/baddumtish
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Villa Lew on June 07, 2018, 02:04:16 PM
At last some good news, deal made with HMRC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44399227







Mate, until there is a massive influx of revenue/cash there is no ‘good news’.
All we are doing is setting ourselves up to lurch from one crisis to another.

For ‘ financial issues at Villa in June’  read the same for July, August...........

Yes I'm well aware of that, the good news I was refering to is HMRC are not putting us into administration.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villadelph on June 07, 2018, 02:09:57 PM
At last some good news, deal made with HMRC


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44399227







Mate, until there is a massive influx of revenue/cash there is no ‘good news’.
All we are doing is setting ourselves up to lurch from one crisis to another.

For ‘ financial issues at Villa in June’  read the same for July, August...........

Yes I'm well aware of that, the good news I was refering to is HMRC are not putting us into administration.

Yeah, for now. We're just treading water until we get pulled under, and quite frankly I don't care for the excuses.. this is why we have a fit and proper test. It's a joke. Don't buy a club if you've only got the resources to sustain it for (not even) two years.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 02:12:56 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 02:13:11 PM
Poundworld has gone into administration. Oh the irony.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 07, 2018, 02:15:24 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 02:19:45 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.

Would that be relevant though as there's no minority shareholder?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 07, 2018, 02:20:41 PM
Pass.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 07, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
Does that make it more or less likely that we are going to be sold?

Is it a case of him accepting money from someone in return for a percentage of his shares to keep us going?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: yammers on June 07, 2018, 02:47:05 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.

Would that be relevant though as there's no minority shareholder?

While I obviously understand all of this, others might not so could you kindly explain what this means please? For everyone else’s benefit.......
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 02:48:49 PM
5 days to wait and find out who they are then.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 07, 2018, 02:49:48 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?
probably already posted by similar moves at villa https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history so seems new shares..
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 07, 2018, 02:55:19 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.

Would that be relevant though as there's no minority shareholder?

Would that mean brand new investors? That is my take on removing pre-emption rights.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 07, 2018, 02:56:14 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?
probably already posted by similar moves at villa https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history so seems new shares..
Guys is there any chance one of you could explain to a lay man like myself what the hell this means?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Towser on June 07, 2018, 02:56:32 PM
I saw this one slightly different to those above

(https://thumb.ibb.co/nrMtJT/Untitled.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrMtJT)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chris Jameson on June 07, 2018, 03:16:06 PM
Haven't the faintest idea about any of the above.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 07, 2018, 03:28:12 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.

Would that be relevant though as there's no minority shareholder?

While I obviously understand all of this, others might not so could you kindly explain what this means please? For everyone else’s benefit.......
I agree.

I too understand it completely but there are some right thick fuckers on here.

So, ONLY for their benefit, can someone put this into layman’s terms.
I’d do it myself but I’ve got a ton of accountancy work to get through.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 03:29:17 PM
I think it’s good news as Tone has worked out how to file stuff online.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: fbriai on June 07, 2018, 03:31:25 PM
You know it's gone tits-up at a football club when you start learning things about accountancy.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 07, 2018, 03:32:21 PM
Have just seen this posted on Companies House:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/ubtc4.png)


New share money incoming from somewhere?

Combined with a resolution to remove preemption rights so looks like it.

Would that be relevant though as there's no minority shareholder?

While I obviously understand all of this, others might not so could you kindly explain what this means please? For everyone else’s benefit.......
I agree.

I too understand it completely but there are some right thick fuckers on here.

So, ONLY for their benefit, can someone put this into layman’s terms.
I’d do it myself but I’ve got a ton of accountancy work to get through.

It's actually extremely simple to understand but I only know a really complicated way to explain it so if anyone else could do the honours I'm sure that the vast majority would really appreciate it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 03:32:44 PM
The main holding company is issuing some more shares.  One of the subsidiary Aston Villa companies is issuing shares and removing the pre-emption rights, which means that when they issue shares, they don't have to offer minority shareholders the chance to buy them in the same proportion.

None of the detail is accessible though until the document appears fully on Companies House, which can take up to 5 days.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 03:35:57 PM
Damn. Beaten to it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: nevillain on June 07, 2018, 03:36:57 PM
While there can be subtle differences between issuing shares and allotting them, for most companies and in most circumstances they amount to exactly the same process. ... With a share allotment, the shares are created and issued by the company to the people who become the company's shareholders.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: FrankyH on June 07, 2018, 03:48:01 PM
You know it's gone tits-up at a football club when you start learning things about accountancy.

That's the first time I've laughed , since the shit hit the fan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dalians umbrella on June 07, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
and the possible implications of this are?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 03:51:27 PM
The idea of pre emptive rights is to protect minority shareholders to an extent in terms of stopping them being diluted.

So if X owns 50% of a company made of of 100 shares he owns 50 shares with the other 50 owned by others.

If X wants to take over the company he has a number of options. He can buy shares from the other holders but only to the extent they wish to sell or the buyer is willing to pay fair value or above.  If the number of shares in the company is increased though is another way to do this.  So if the company issues another 100 shares, then the end result is 200 shares in the company.

Now X owns 50 and the other 50 are owned by others with the other 100 up for grabs.  The idea of pre emptive is that the 100 shares are offered equally first to other shareholders based on what they all own.

So if the other 50 are owned by 5 with 10 each, they are able to buy 10 each and X can only buy 50.  Thus if everyone exercises their pre emptive rights X ends up with 100 of the 200 and the others own 20 instead of 10. So each shareholder is protected as their ownership hasn’t been diluted in any way. The minority’s shareholder are thus protected as X hasn’t been able to buy all 100 shares and becoming a 75% shareholder at the expense of the minority.

A few things to consider; pre emptive rights work to an extent based on minority shareholders being willing or able to purchase the shares at the fixed rate.  So if the shares are issued at a sufficiently high amount that the minority can’t afford then they can be squeezed out in this way (although the price set has to be agreed by the shareholders up front in some way that prevents this)

Either way given Tony is the owner of the club the removal or pre emptive rights is odd since he’s only taken the rights from himself which he could forgo anyway when seeking alternative investments.

Who knew 10 years in Corporate Actions would come into some use here.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 07, 2018, 03:53:02 PM
As clear as mud.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 07, 2018, 04:01:24 PM
Sounds a bit like one of them Pyramid Schemes to me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dalians umbrella on June 07, 2018, 04:01:39 PM
Here's a load more about this that I can't understand either:

https://twitter.com/Mike_J_Thornton/status/1004713598269231104



Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 07, 2018, 04:04:00 PM
The idea of pre emotion rights is to protect minority shareholders to an extent in terms of stopping them being diluted.

So if X owns 50% of a company made of of 100 shares he owns 50 shares with the other 50 owned by others.

If X wants to take over the company he has a number of options. He can buy shares from the other holders but only to the extent they wish to sell or the buyer is willing to pay fair value or above.  If the number of shares in the company is increased though is another way to do this.  So if the company issues another 100 shares, then the end result is 200 shares in the company.

Now X owns 50 and the other 50 are owned by others with the other 100 up for grabs.  The idea of pre emotion is that the 100 shares are offered equally first to other shareholders based on what they all own.

So if the other 50 are owned by 5 with 10 each, they are able to buy 10 each and X can only buy 50.  Thus if everyone exercises their pre emptive rights X ends up with 100 of the 200 and the others own 20 instead of 10. So each shareholder is protected as their ownership hasn’t been diluted in any way. The minority’s shareholder are thus protected as X hasn’t been able to buy all 100 shares and becoming a 75% shareholder at the expense of the minority.

A few things to consider; pre emptive rights work to an extent based on minority shareholders being willing or able to purchase the shares at the fixed rate.  So if the shares are issued at a sufficiently high amount that the minority can’t afford then they can be squeezed out in this way (although the price set has to be agreed by the shareholders up front in some way that prevents this)

Either way given Tony is the owner of the club the removal or pre emptive rights is odd since he’s only taken the rights from himself which he could forgo anyway when seeking alternative investments.

Who knew 10 years in Corporate Actions would come into some use here.
Since he's the only shareholder i guess he waives the pre-emption rights to simplify the process (and maybe make further issuance easier)?

Bottom line, he's selling shares to someone and this gives him the ability to do it. We'll find out more in 5 days
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 04:04:31 PM
As clear as mud.

I never said it was straight forward!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Gareth on June 07, 2018, 04:40:40 PM
Just saw on Rob Dorsett (sp) twitter that the club refused to pay 20k for new suits for Wembley....as much as that would have been a vanity expense it suggests that the players knew something was afoot if we lost....wouldn’t exempt the first half white flag but might explain setting up for penalties
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Monty on June 07, 2018, 04:42:44 PM
Just saw on Rob Dorsett (sp) twitter that the club refused to pay 20k for new suits for Wembley....as much as that would have been a vanity expense it suggests that the players knew something was afoot if we lost....wouldn’t exempt the first half white flag but might explain setting up for penalties

How?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 04:45:27 PM
The idea of pre emptive rights is to protect minority shareholders to an extent in terms of stopping them being diluted.

So if X owns 50% of a company made of of 100 shares he owns 50 shares with the other 50 owned by others.

If X wants to take over the company he has a number of options. He can buy shares from the other holders but only to the extent they wish to sell or the buyer is willing to pay fair value or above.  If the number of shares in the company is increased though is another way to do this.  So if the company issues another 100 shares, then the end result is 200 shares in the company.

Now X owns 50 and the other 50 are owned by others with the other 100 up for grabs.  The idea of pre emptive is that the 100 shares are offered equally first to other shareholders based on what they all own.

So if the other 50 are owned by 5 with 10 each, they are able to buy 10 each and X can only buy 50.  Thus if everyone exercises their pre emptive rights X ends up with 100 of the 200 and the others own 20 instead of 10. So each shareholder is protected as their ownership hasn’t been diluted in any way. The minority’s shareholder are thus protected as X hasn’t been able to buy all 100 shares and becoming a 75% shareholder at the expense of the minority.

A few things to consider; pre emptive rights work to an extent based on minority shareholders being willing or able to purchase the shares at the fixed rate.  So if the shares are issued at a sufficiently high amount that the minority can’t afford then they can be squeezed out in this way (although the price set has to be agreed by the shareholders up front in some way that prevents this)

Either way given Tony is the owner of the club the removal or pre emptive rights is odd since he’s only taken the rights from himself which he could forgo anyway when seeking alternative investments.

Who knew 10 years in Corporate Actions would come into some use here.
Since he's the only shareholder i guess he waives the pre-emption rights to simplify the process (and maybe make further issuance easier)?

Bottom line, he's selling shares to someone and this gives him the ability to do it. We'll find out more in 5 days

It could effectively make it slightly quicker yes.  I'd expect if they are going down this route they have some sort of investment lined up.  It also opens up the possibility of supporter involvement in some way as it could allow fans to invest in the club even for a nominal amount.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ajmant on June 07, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
Just saw on Rob Dorsett (sp) twitter that the club refused to pay 20k for new suits for Wembley....as much as that would have been a vanity expense it suggests that the players knew something was afoot if we lost....wouldn’t exempt the first half white flag but might explain setting up for penalties

I should bloody well hope the club said no to £20k worth of suits which was for nothing more than an extra league game because we'd cocked up some of the previous 46.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 07, 2018, 05:17:26 PM
Should have  told them they could recycle the Ciro Citterio outfits from the class of '96 or they could buy their fooking own.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on June 07, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
Doesn't look like we will be sponsored by House of Fraser or Pound World
Let's hope Mr Freunds Trinity Packaging can inject some much needed finance
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kipeye on June 07, 2018, 05:38:36 PM
Should have  told them they could recycle the Ciro Citterio outfits from the class of '96 or they could buy their fooking own.
Less likely to be Big Ron style, more likely MON tracksuits.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 06:04:27 PM
As the only shareholder, is this him doing a share split to create some liquidity and a more attractive purchase price?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 06:09:03 PM
As the only shareholder, is this him doing a share split to create some liquidity and a more attractive purchase price?

That wouldn't really work given the shares aren't publicly traded or listed anywhere as far as I'm aware. 

A share split would just lower the price of every share but the sum of the whole would remain the same.  It would open up the potential of supporters investing at a very low price as part of any restructure (this is how BrewDog actually raises money by issuing thousands of shares at an affordable price)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 07, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
As the only shareholder, is this him doing a share split to create some liquidity and a more attractive purchase price?

That wouldn't really work given the shares aren't publicly traded or listed anywhere as far as I'm aware. 

A share split would just lower the price of every share but the sum of the whole would remain the same.  It would open up the potential of supporters investing at a very low price as part of any restructure (this is how BrewDog actually raises money by issuing thousands of shares at an affordable price)

I have no idea what the articles of association state but RECON and Villa may have 1 issued share each or 10 that Tony owns, doing a split would allow an investor to buy in at a lower price or at the price that Xia wants to inject as working capital without giving up control.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: yammers on June 07, 2018, 06:32:30 PM
The idea of pre emptive rights is to protect minority shareholders to an extent in terms of stopping them being diluted.

So if X owns 50% of a company made of of 100 shares he owns 50 shares with the other 50 owned by others.

If X wants to take over the company he has a number of options. He can buy shares from the other holders but only to the extent they wish to sell or the buyer is willing to pay fair value or above.  If the number of shares in the company is increased though is another way to do this.  So if the company issues another 100 shares, then the end result is 200 shares in the company.

Now X owns 50 and the other 50 are owned by others with the other 100 up for grabs.  The idea of pre emptive is that the 100 shares are offered equally first to other shareholders based on what they all own.

So if the other 50 are owned by 5 with 10 each, they are able to buy 10 each and X can only buy 50.  Thus if everyone exercises their pre emptive rights X ends up with 100 of the 200 and the others own 20 instead of 10. So each shareholder is protected as their ownership hasn’t been diluted in any way. The minority’s shareholder are thus protected as X hasn’t been able to buy all 100 shares and becoming a 75% shareholder at the expense of the minority.

A few things to consider; pre emptive rights work to an extent based on minority shareholders being willing or able to purchase the shares at the fixed rate.  So if the shares are issued at a sufficiently high amount that the minority can’t afford then they can be squeezed out in this way (although the price set has to be agreed by the shareholders up front in some way that prevents this)

Either way given Tony is the owner of the club the removal or pre emptive rights is odd since he’s only taken the rights from himself which he could forgo anyway when seeking alternative investments.

Who knew 10 years in Corporate Actions would come into some use here.

I was with you all the way up to “The idea of pre emptive rights is to....”
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 07, 2018, 06:53:35 PM
The idea of pre emptive rights is to protect minority shareholders to an extent in terms of stopping them being diluted.

So if X owns 50% of a company made of of 100 shares he owns 50 shares with the other 50 owned by others.

If X wants to take over the company he has a number of options. He can buy shares from the other holders but only to the extent they wish to sell or the buyer is willing to pay fair value or above.  If the number of shares in the company is increased though is another way to do this.  So if the company issues another 100 shares, then the end result is 200 shares in the company.

Now X owns 50 and the other 50 are owned by others with the other 100 up for grabs.  The idea of pre emptive is that the 100 shares are offered equally first to other shareholders based on what they all own.

So if the other 50 are owned by 5 with 10 each, they are able to buy 10 each and X can only buy 50.  Thus if everyone exercises their pre emptive rights X ends up with 100 of the 200 and the others own 20 instead of 10. So each shareholder is protected as their ownership hasn’t been diluted in any way. The minority’s shareholder are thus protected as X hasn’t been able to buy all 100 shares and becoming a 75% shareholder at the expense of the minority.

A few things to consider; pre emptive rights work to an extent based on minority shareholders being willing or able to purchase the shares at the fixed rate.  So if the shares are issued at a sufficiently high amount that the minority can’t afford then they can be squeezed out in this way (although the price set has to be agreed by the shareholders up front in some way that prevents this)

Either way given Tony is the owner of the club the removal or pre emptive rights is odd since he’s only taken the rights from himself which he could forgo anyway when seeking alternative investments.

Who knew 10 years in Corporate Actions would come into some use here.
Since he's the only shareholder i guess he waives the pre-emption rights to simplify the process (and maybe make further issuance easier)?

Bottom line, he's selling shares to someone and this gives him the ability to do it. We'll find out more in 5 days

It could effectively make it slightly quicker yes.  I'd expect if they are going down this route they have some sort of investment lined up.  It also opens up the possibility of supporter involvement in some way as it could allow fans to invest in the club even for a nominal amount.

I think you are probably right GarTomas, but I don't expect  supporter involvement.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: russon on June 07, 2018, 07:02:56 PM
I’m so far out of my depth with this thread that this sprang to mind...

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
Welcome to my world of checking Companies House every day to check that they’ve actually processed the stuff we’ve sent in.

Also annoying that HMRC are on the ball with threats of winding up but can’t process a VAT7 in the three weeks they’re supposed to. They now say to give them 30 working days (ie 6 weeks)

Don’t get me started on their VAT426 cock ups  >:(
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 07, 2018, 07:09:11 PM
The main holding company is issuing some more shares.  One of the subsidiary Aston Villa companies is issuing shares and removing the pre-emption rights, which means that when they issue shares, they don't have to offer minority shareholders the chance to buy them in the same proportion.
None of the detail is accessible though until the document appears fully on Companies House, which can take up to 5 days.
So removal of pre-emption means new shares are ring fenced for a particular individual/company.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 07:09:41 PM
Welcome to my world of checking Companies House every day to check that they’ve actually processed the stuff we’ve sent in.

Also annoying that HMRC are on the ball with threats of winding up but can’t process a VAT7 in the three weeks they’re supposed to. They now say to give them 30 working days (ie 6 weeks)

Don’t get me started on their VAT426 cock ups  >:(

They haven't processed my stamp duty reclaim of nearly £40K either.  I might have to issue a winding up order against the bastards.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2018, 07:13:20 PM
Welcome to my world of checking Companies House every day to check that they’ve actually processed the stuff we’ve sent in.

Also annoying that HMRC are on the ball with threats of winding up but can’t process a VAT7 in the three weeks they’re supposed to. They now say to give them 30 working days (ie 6 weeks)

Don’t get me started on their VAT426 cock ups  >:(

They haven't processed my stamp duty reclaim of nearly £40K either.  I might have to issue a winding up order against the bastards.

HMRC’s favourite at the moment seems to be not processing a V100 because the figures are the same as the previous return. Not that they ever bother to phone up and say that they have a query.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 07, 2018, 07:18:01 PM
Welcome to my world of checking Companies House every day to check that they’ve actually processed the stuff we’ve sent in.

Also annoying that HMRC are on the ball with threats of winding up but can’t process a VAT7 in the three weeks they’re supposed to. They now say to give them 30 working days (ie 6 weeks)

Don’t get me started on their VAT426 cock ups  >:(

They haven't processed my stamp duty reclaim of nearly £40K either.  I might have to issue a winding up order against the bastards.

HMRC’s favourite at the moment seems to be not processing a V100 because the figures are the same as the previous return. Not that they ever bother to phone up and say that they have a query.

And now i'm completely lost,   I think i've clicked on the wrong link and arrived here by accident,  Sorry to have bothered you I'll close the door on my way out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wozwebs on June 07, 2018, 07:41:44 PM
Read elsewhere Xia has managed to take a £50m loan from Recon over next two years?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 07:43:31 PM
Recons website is as bad as Tony’s shoes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 07:51:07 PM
Apparently NASA have found life on Mars today, I couldn’t give a shit either.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 07, 2018, 07:57:59 PM
All this scrabbling down the back of the sofa for a million here and million there tells us one massive thing.

We shouldn’t give a feck about FPP because we ain’t got enough money to pay the bills, let alone bring in quality players who will get us up.

We arent to going to trouble FFP rules anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 07, 2018, 08:02:46 PM
Apparently NASA have found life on Mars today, I couldn’t give a shit either.

At least we know where Wyness is now.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 07, 2018, 08:06:36 PM
Just saw on Rob Dorsett (sp) twitter that the club refused to pay 20k for new suits for Wembley....as much as that would have been a vanity expense it suggests that the players knew something was afoot if we lost....wouldn’t exempt the first half white flag but might explain setting up for penalties

I should bloody well hope the club said no to £20k worth of suits which was for nothing more than an extra league game because we'd cocked up some of the previous 46.
Spot on.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 08:20:03 PM
The main holding company is issuing some more shares.  One of the subsidiary Aston Villa companies is issuing shares and removing the pre-emption rights, which means that when they issue shares, they don't have to offer minority shareholders the chance to buy them in the same proportion.
None of the detail is accessible though until the document appears fully on Companies House, which can take up to 5 days.
So removal of pre-emption means new shares are ring fenced for a particular individual/company.
It could mean he has pulled off the trick of selling some shares but retaining control.
I guess the converse could be true also.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 07, 2018, 08:22:53 PM
The last few pages on pre-emption rights and share issue have kept me company during a rather satisfying Ivanka Trump. Cheers!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on June 07, 2018, 08:25:12 PM
The last few pages on pre-emption rights and share issue have kept me company during a rather satisfying Ivanka Trump. Cheers!
Ewww
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 07, 2018, 08:30:51 PM
So for us non accountants, is this good news, bad news, neither, could be either.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 08:33:47 PM
So for us non accountants, is this good news, bad news, neither, could be either.
The good news is, I am not an accountant.
But to answer your question, it is impossible to tell, it does suggest however that something is happening behind the scenes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 07, 2018, 08:36:55 PM
Could it be an elaborate way of getting his money out of China?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 08:47:23 PM
Its Tom Hanks

Obviously
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: clash city rocker on June 07, 2018, 08:48:32 PM
If you can have a whip round i'll gladly fly to China and bring all his millions over in suitcases.  Plus for cash we should be able to arrange better deals.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 08:49:48 PM
Could it be an elaborate way of getting his money out of China?
It  suggests new shareholders, that’s about as much as you can speculate.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on June 07, 2018, 09:18:36 PM
Just read an article stating that Xia could face jail time in China for wasting his money on us. The guy who's head of Fosun who own Wolves was arrested for questioning over the same thing. My question to Dr Tony is this. " Knowing how difficult it is for Chinese citizens to "export" your money out of the country why the fuck did you buy the villa and make all those bold predictions?"

So how can he keep putting in?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 09:18:46 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway

That effectively what all owners have in a club.  Even Lerner had lent the club money suggesting debt and not equity but then part of the sale was clearing the same debt.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 09:20:19 PM
The main holding company is issuing some more shares.  One of the subsidiary Aston Villa companies is issuing shares and removing the pre-emption rights, which means that when they issue shares, they don't have to offer minority shareholders the chance to buy them in the same proportion.
None of the detail is accessible though until the document appears fully on Companies House, which can take up to 5 days.
So removal of pre-emption means new shares are ring fenced for a particular individual/company.

In practice yes - no guarantee that the individual or company has been identified though.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway

That effectively what all owners have in a club.  Even Lerner had lent the club money suggesting debt and not equity but then part of the sale was clearing the same debt.

For most of his time, Lerner injected debt and equity in equal amounts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 09:24:07 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway

That effectively what all owners have in a club.  Even Lerner had lent the club money suggesting debt and not equity but then part of the sale was clearing the same debt.

For most of his time, Lerner injected debt and equity in equal amounts.

Your memory is better than mine!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 09:39:34 PM
To have purchased the club he would have to have gained exchange control license.
The currency restrictions in China are not to prevent legitimate business activity.
Financing a Football club that you have purchased would be legitimate.
So unless something else has happened in China I see no reason why he would not be able to use money if it was available to him.
As mentioned above he banks with HSBC which is the ideal institution to move money legitimately in and out of China.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
I was reading something yesterday about the Chinese authorities taking a dim view of what they saw as vanity investments in sports teams, and instead wanted to see investment in things like infrastructure projects in Africa.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in her
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
I was reading something yesterday about the Chinese authorities taking a dim view of what they saw as vanity investments in sports teams, and instead wanted to see investment in things like infrastructure projects in Africa.
When Xia first came on the scene it was suggested that China wanted to have a top International  Football team and that these investments in football was blessed by Xi Jingping.
 It could have been PR of course and things could have changed.
I know the stuff they are clamping down on, domestic real estate investment, shadow banking operations and any project / scheme which is just a vehicle to obtain foreign currency positions.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:02:15 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway

That effectively what all owners have in a club.  Even Lerner had lent the club money suggesting debt and not equity but then part of the sale was clearing the same debt.

I know that. Once they're in they get sucked more in trying to sort it out. But isn't the suggestion here they someone else has put equity into a  massive loss making business that could be available at a knock down price in a matter of weeks or months?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:04:54 PM
To have purchased the club he would have to have gained exchange control license.
The currency restrictions in China are not to prevent legitimate business activity.
Financing a Football club that you have purchased would be legitimate.
So unless something else has happened in China I see no reason why he would not be able to use money if it was available to him.
As mentioned above he banks with HSBC which is the ideal institution to move money legitimately in and out of China.



I've read that it's very difficult to pinpoint the controls, and that the authorities can just move for or against you on stuff like this

But I also read that the controls that have affected the company invested in Atletico madrid - and which they had to sell because of that - only really kick in at a level of investment higher than what Xia has put in (though I reckon he's done the best part of 150m!)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 10:07:22 PM
I just don't get why anyone would want equity in villa? Not at a decent price anyway

That effectively what all owners have in a club.  Even Lerner had lent the club money suggesting debt and not equity but then part of the sale was clearing the same debt.

I know that. Once they're in they get sucked more in trying to sort it out. But isn't the suggestion here they someone else has put equity into a  massive loss making business that could be available at a knock down price in a matter of weeks or months?

Which is no different to getting a new owner! It suggests more to me that Xia is working on an approach where he can retain an interest.

Wyness talked about the impressive fans for the area in general which he may still want  and aim to deliver on.  He may need some assistance though in short term financing given the capital controls in China preventing him chasing good money after bad on the top flight.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:15:55 PM
Yeah but I don't get why anyone would buy us now considering our liabilities

If you want us at all, can't you wait a few months and we'll be in administration or at least available at a knock down price?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 07, 2018, 10:23:08 PM
Once you’re in administration though there maybe certain decisions that you can’t reverse though.

Would you rather buy the club as is now, or when in administration after we’ve sold Grealish (so as we are now + x million)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 10:28:24 PM
There was another document listed on Companies House today, a resolution regarding a service contract.  I think these are usually when a director is given a service contract of greater than two years, but I can't really think why this would have been today.  Ads, any ideas?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:28:31 PM
https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1004639118343770117?s=19

Thread worth a read, covers what I'm saying above about intenglibel ways in which Chinese govt controls outlow of capital
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:29:17 PM
Once you’re in administration though there maybe certain decisions that you can’t reverse though.

Would you rather buy the club as is now, or when in administration after we’ve sold Grealish (so as we are now + x million)

Depends on the price!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brontebilly on June 07, 2018, 10:33:54 PM
Yeah but I don't get why anyone would buy us now considering our liabilities

If you want us at all, can't you wait a few months and we'll be in administration or at least available at a knock down price?

If even a one season stay in the top division guarantees 160m additional revenue, as was widely reported around the playoff game, then it will be in a prospective buyers interest to get us as competitive as possible as soon as possible. That was the rationale Xia used when he took over and will be for any other prospective buyer lets not be kidding ourselves. Every day this debacle draws out, our odds for relegation decrease and promotion increase. Administration would cost us 12 points for starters.

The tipping point for Xia selling up cant be far off with the likes of Fulham and Brentford due money soon for the wildly unsuccessful McCormack and Hogan deals.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 10:34:42 PM
https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1004639118343770117?s=19

Thread worth a read, covers what I'm saying above about intenglibel ways in which Chinese govt controls outlow of capital
Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 10:36:56 PM
Once you’re in administration though there maybe certain decisions that you can’t reverse though.

Would you rather buy the club as is now, or when in administration after we’ve sold Grealish (so as we are now + x million)

Depends on the price!

Indeed, get Villa for a knock down price, and hope that despite everything we can get promoted in the next year or two with a team of good youngsters. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 07, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
Collymore thinks Tony has managed to get 50 million into the club from another business.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 07, 2018, 10:43:31 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCTransTweet/status/1004839687062802436?s=19

Yeah there are a few rumours like this

But this plus new equity? Seems unlikely?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 07, 2018, 10:57:37 PM
For those that still don’t know what the resolution means I think it means the shareholders have decided to issue further shares for a new investor or investors to come in. I’m guessing that it’s Simon Jordan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 07, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
There was another document listed on Companies House today, a resolution regarding a service contract.  I think these are usually when a director is given a service contract of greater than two years, but I can't really think why this would have been today.  Ads, any ideas?

You have to make service contracts available for inspection, but usually at the registered address, so it's unusual to see it on Companies House.

There are means to demand the production of a service contract under a resolution, but I cannot envisage why we'd have done that.

It's difficult to pick the bones out when we only have a small part of the picture.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 11:00:20 PM
For those that still don’t know what the resolution means I think it means the shareholders have decided to issue further shares for a new investor or investors to come in. I’m guessing that it’s Simon Jordan.

I'd be amazed if it was him.  He's surely very wary about getting involved with a football club again after his Palace days.  Plus he was on Talksport this morning and didn't give any impression along those lines at all.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 11:00:37 PM
https://twitter.com/AVFCTransTweet/status/1004839687062802436?s=19

Yeah there are a few rumours like this

But this plus new equity? Seems unlikely?
Collymore saying Villa fans doing DD on, I guess he means Due Dilligence,  :o
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 07, 2018, 11:00:41 PM
Collymore thinks Tony has managed to get 50 million into the club from another business.

A loan from Recon so I read, if it’s being loaned from China then I think we can rule out Chinese govt currency policy being the cause of this Captain.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 07, 2018, 11:01:34 PM
Yes that’s what I was referring to.  He was inferring he knew a lot about what was going on behind the scenes so I was just putting two and two together.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 07, 2018, 11:02:11 PM
For those that still don’t know what the resolution means I think it means the shareholders have decided to issue further shares for a new investor or investors to come in. I’m guessing that it’s Simon Jordan.

I'd be amazed if it was him.  He's surely very wary about getting involved with a football club again after his Palace days.  Plus he was on Talksport this morning and didn't give any impression along those lines at all.

Has he got any money left?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rudy65 on June 07, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
For those that still don’t know what the resolution means I think it means the shareholders have decided to issue further shares for a new investor or investors to come in. I’m guessing that it’s Simon Jordan.

I'd be amazed if it was him.  He's surely very wary about getting involved with a football club again after his Palace days.  Plus he was on Talksport this morning and didn't give any impression along those lines at all.

I heard him this morning. Despite his perma  tan and hairstyle he normally talks a lot of sense
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 07, 2018, 11:19:32 PM
Agreed I think he talks a lot of sense.  Plus I still laugh at his alleged line to Peter Taylor when he was about to sack him.  ‘Peter I don’t know how we’re going to cope without you, but from Monday we’re going to give it a go.’
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SheffieldVillain on June 07, 2018, 11:25:50 PM
Agreed I think he talks a lot of sense.  Plus I still laugh at his alleged line to Peter Taylor when he was about to sack him.  ‘Peter I don’t know how we’re going to cope without you, but from Monday we’re going to give it a go.’

Yeah, agree too. Enjoyed his autobiography as well. He certainly didn't hold back his opinions.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 07, 2018, 11:27:58 PM
He really likes the Villa and hates the Blues, so he's OK by me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wozwebs on June 07, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
He alluded to know more about the Villa situation than he could say last week
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SO Villa on June 07, 2018, 11:39:11 PM
He alluded to know more about the Villa situation than he could say last week
Good friends with Bruce isn't he?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 07, 2018, 11:40:51 PM
He really likes the Villa and hates the Blues, so he's OK by me.

How do you know that Risso?

A former neighbour of mine, a Hammer who dislikes their owners, told me that Jordan once said “ if I hear one more time Sullivan’s story of poor East End boy made good I’ll impale myself on one of his dildos”
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 07, 2018, 11:46:40 PM
Couldn't he issue new shares then buy them himself? Or rather get one of his companies to buy them. Such as a film company....
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 07, 2018, 11:49:35 PM
He did buy Millennium Films. Its not a railroad in Eastern Africa.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 07, 2018, 11:50:51 PM
Couldn't he issue new shares then buy them himself? Or rather get one of his companies to buy them. Such as a film company....

If the rumours of a £50m loan from Recon is true then probably yes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 08, 2018, 12:13:16 AM
So, as I asked a few pages back, is the share thing an elaborate way to get his money into the club without annoying the Chinese authorities? And if so, fair play to him for finding a way to do it.

On another note, reports today suggest our wage bill is now closer to £40 million not £60. Once the big fees for players are paid off, and considering that since Hogan we have spent very little on incomings, surely with 4-5 selected players going out the door to get the wage bill under around £35 million, we will be much, much closer to being self sufficient?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 12:19:13 AM
So hey Mr Chinese Regulator, instead of lending money to the club I own, I am now buying shares in the club I own.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 08, 2018, 12:20:56 AM
Look I did not say it had to make sense, but rules always have silly loopholes don't they
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 12:27:26 AM
Look I did not say it had to make sense, but rules always have silly loopholes don't they
No you might be right, turning up with some shiny share certificates might do the trick.
The big thing in China is to have lots of Chops these are seals and every official document has them.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 08, 2018, 12:34:04 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 12:40:23 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Chasing a bad  loan with another loan is called the making love to a gorilla scenario,
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 08, 2018, 12:49:10 AM
So if it was as easy as buying new shares issued in your own company with another one why didn't we do it months ago when the money dried up instead of selling off future income and losing out? Smells like bullshit to me, doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 02:05:08 AM
So if it was as easy as buying new shares issued in your own company with another one why didn't we do it months ago when the money dried up instead of selling off future income and losing out? Smells like bullshit to me, doesn't make any sense.
The more we hear the less sense it makes.
What we do know is the CEO got fired and they could not pay HMRC.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 08, 2018, 05:45:24 AM
Well we just don't know yet do we

I agree that borrowing money in china to invest in extra shares does seem odd. Doesn't solve ffp. Doesn't obviously get around the Chinese regulators. Doesn't do anything extra for cashflow that simply injecting cash wouldn't do.

But something is going on and hopefully we'll find out soon enough
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 08, 2018, 07:09:12 AM
So if it was as easy as buying new shares issued in your own company with another one why didn't we do it months ago when the money dried up instead of selling off future income and losing out? Smells like bullshit to me, doesn't make any sense.
He probably didn't think he would need to. They gambled everything on us getting promoted.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 08, 2018, 07:12:33 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Also won't it put us in further trouble with ffp? Which by the way is a total fuck up and needs to be ripped up and thought out properly.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TheMalandro on June 08, 2018, 07:23:13 AM
He did buy Millennium Films. Its not a railroad in Eastern Africa.

With hindsight, that was probably the first indication Xia had a problem.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 08, 2018, 07:28:32 AM
No the issuance of shares would increase the equity in the club not the debt. It’s still money coming into ththe club but not financed through borrowing.

I’m still scratching my head as since Tony / Recon owns pretty all of the club I don’t see why he’d need to do this unless it’s some technicality around the articles of association of the companies.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 08, 2018, 07:43:35 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Also won't it put us in further trouble with ffp? Which by the way is a total fuck up and needs to be ripped up and thought out properly.

I suspect it’s either this or Administration.  This £50m will only be for the operating costs for the next few months.  The next stage will be the firesale to get rid of the wages and make us more sustainable;  I reckon these will go;

Elmo
Jedi
Whelan
Grealish
Chester
Kodjia
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 08, 2018, 07:50:49 AM
He really likes the Villa and hates the Blues, so he's OK by me.

How do you know that Risso?

A former neighbour of mine, a Hammer who dislikes their owners, told me that Jordan once said “ if I hear one more time Sullivan’s story of poor East End boy made good I’ll impale myself on one of his dildos”

Take a scroll through Jordan’s Twitter feed, always having a pop and taking the piss from the noses.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brontebilly on June 08, 2018, 07:56:52 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Also won't it put us in further trouble with ffp? Which by the way is a total fuck up and needs to be ripped up and thought out properly.

I suspect it’s either this or Administration.  This £50m will only be for the operating costs for the next few months.  The next stage will be the firesale to get rid of the wages and make us more sustainable;  I reckon these will go;

Elmo
Jedi
Whelan
Grealish
Chester
Kodjia

Elmo can't be on that much money

Bree on 23k a week, Lansbury on 30k a week, no wonder we are broke
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 08, 2018, 08:04:15 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.
Also won't it put us in further trouble with ffp? Which by the way is a total fuck up and needs to be ripped up and thought out properly.

I suspect it’s either this or Administration.  This £50m will only be for the operating costs for the next few months.  The next stage will be the firesale to get rid of the wages and make us more sustainable;  I reckon these will go;

Elmo
Jedi
Whelan
Grealish
Chester
Kodjia

One of the arguments Man City has though when they were spending was that the club was debt free as financed solely through equity so FFP shouldn’t apply.

I guess this injection of cash through equity rather than debt maybe a way to get around this. Pay off all transfers fees due as this would in theory stop other clubs complaining if the alternative is us going into administration and not paying anything due to the same clubs.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: boozey182 on June 08, 2018, 08:52:15 AM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

How about this: This American chap offers to buy 51% of the club from Tony Xia, at the club's current value (ie much less than Xia paid), on the condition that Xia invests that money back into the club. It wouldn't be Chinese money, so there should be no problem there. Written into the deal is that when/if we get promoted again, the remaining 49% is sold at the price Xia paid (which would be much less than what it would be worth). This way Xia saves face and makes a much smaller loss, the American chap gets himself a Premier League club at a shitshambles price and we can forget this ever happened.

Of course, in order to assure we were promoted we'd have to keep Jack and buy a load of old, largely shit players on massive wages have a well thought out, strategic plan that builds around a solid youth base. So that would be implemented.

In the unlikely event we don't get promoted in the next couple of years, well, then we're probably going to be really in the shit. But maybe being in the shit in two years sounds infinitely more appealing than being in the shit right now.

Could this scenario still be on the cards? Someone has given Tony (/Recon) £50 million for some shares, on the condition that the money goes back into the club to solve to immediate cashflow worries. That would explain where the money has appeared from all of a sudden, and the change to the share structure. I think..... I'm way out of my depth here!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 08, 2018, 09:09:10 AM
He really likes the Villa and hates the Blues, so he's OK by me.

How do you know that Risso?

A former neighbour of mine, a Hammer who dislikes their owners, told me that Jordan once said “ if I hear one more time Sullivan’s story of poor East End boy made good I’ll impale myself on one of his dildos”

Take a scroll through Jordan’s Twitter feed, always having a pop and taking the piss from the noses.

There was one message where he called us the only proper club in Birmingham.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2018, 09:12:45 AM
But that's a fact more than an opinion. Even Dingles would state it!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 08, 2018, 09:23:45 AM
I wonder if there’s anything in this American who’s reported to be interested in buying us?

How about this: This American chap offers to buy 51% of the club from Tony Xia, at the club's current value (ie much less than Xia paid), on the condition that Xia invests that money back into the club. It wouldn't be Chinese money, so there should be no problem there. Written into the deal is that when/if we get promoted again, the remaining 49% is sold at the price Xia paid (which would be much less than what it would be worth). This way Xia saves face and makes a much smaller loss, the American chap gets himself a Premier League club at a shitshambles price and we can forget this ever happened.

Of course, in order to assure we were promoted we'd have to keep Jack and buy a load of old, largely shit players on massive wages have a well thought out, strategic plan that builds around a solid youth base. So that would be implemented.

In the unlikely event we don't get promoted in the next couple of years, well, then we're probably going to be really in the shit. But maybe being in the shit in two years sounds infinitely more appealing than being in the shit right now.

Could this scenario still be on the cards? Someone has given Tony (/Recon) £50 million for some shares, on the condition that the money goes back into the club to solve to immediate cashflow worries. That would explain where the money has appeared from all of a sudden, and the change to the share structure. I think..... I'm way out of my depth here!

The issuance of new shares to new owners would achieve this yes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 08, 2018, 09:39:13 AM
New shirt looks nice though, if we have a team to wear it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/footballlover63/status/1005001937278861313/photo/1
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: nevillain on June 08, 2018, 09:45:28 AM
https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1004639118343770117?s=19

Thread worth a read, covers what I'm saying above about intenglibel ways in which Chinese govt controls outlow of capital
Interesting stuff.

Indeed it is. Loved Daves dig at the bitter geordie
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 08, 2018, 10:01:39 AM
New shirt looks nice though, if we have a team to wear it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/footballlover63/status/1005001937278861313/photo/1
Yes. Well done Luke.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 08, 2018, 10:11:08 AM
Be interesting to see who the club get to model it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 08, 2018, 11:06:14 AM
I don't believe for a second that Bree is on £23k per week
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 08, 2018, 11:12:10 AM
He'd barely have been on 5k at Barnsley coming through their youth system.

Can't really get excited about any new ownership. We've had the two most popular forms of owners in English football as our last two, American and Far east.

Both provided short term boost but hardly any long term plan.

Regardless of nationality we need someone who'll be committed to a long term rebuild and won't just chuck money at things to plug gaps as Xia obviously has done.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 08, 2018, 11:15:44 AM
It does still mean that the Villa will owe Tony/Recon another £50m plus whatever he has already borrowed to get rid of him in future.

Still dreaming of the premier league then.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, has the extra payment we were due to make to Lerner noe expired? Pretty sure when he sold it was a condition of the deal he'd receive extra 20m if we were promoted but can't remember if that was in 2 or 3 yeaes of him selling.

So feasibilty that's an extra 20m going out of the club that should be floating around somewhere....unless it was going to come out of the 100m + for going up of course!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 08, 2018, 11:34:01 AM
So he wont be due it then unless I'm missing something?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 08, 2018, 11:37:12 AM
So he wont be due it then unless I'm missing something?

Just checked, it was two years.

So my question is...was this 20m going to come out of the extra premier league payments so is a phantom figure or did we have it ready to sent to Lerner at the final whistle on May 26th so we could use it at least to plug some of our financial gaps?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 08, 2018, 11:39:19 AM
Ah I see.

I'd imagine he was in the same queue to get paid as the milkman and window cleaner.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2018, 11:40:25 AM
That £6m outstanding to Fulham McCormack is the whole sorry mess in a nutshell. I wonder if we're crossing our fingers over that gentlemen's agreement someone posted about earlier in the week about the Play Off winners looking after the losers by passing-on the Wembley receipts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 08, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
I wonder if they will repossess him if we dont pay?

*crosses fingers*
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 08, 2018, 11:49:40 AM
I don't believe for a second that Bree is on £23k per week
Hes not. He was purchased for the development squad and from what ive been told he is on nearer £2k with clauses up to £15k based on first team appearances etc
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 08, 2018, 12:23:24 PM
That £6m outstanding to Fulham McCormack is the whole sorry mess in a nutshell. I wonder if we're crossing our fingers over that gentlemen's agreement someone posted about earlier in the week about the Play Off winners looking after the losers by passing-on the Wembley receipts.

It seems it’s the way all clubs conduct their transfer dealings....in installments. We haven’t done anything wrong or out of the norm.

The fact that we still owe £6m for the fat fuck is more galling.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2018, 12:41:11 PM
Yeah, that's what I meant, that we had overpaid in the first place.
 Is anyone giving him and Richards stick on Twitter for not resigning out of a love for their club?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chris Jameson on June 08, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
Don't know if this has been posted anywhere but @robbrownavfc has come up with a brilliant solution. We could also sell Harry Kane, Salah, Neymar and Messi and we'd be laughing.

"Face facts, we need to sell players to stay afloat. Sell the following...

Grealish: £18.5m
Snodgrass: £18.5m
Lansbury: £2.5m
Terry: £9m
Kodjia: £14.5m

Gives us £63m to play with. Thoughts?"




Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Tokyo Sexwhale on June 08, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
A few thoughts do come to mind.  None he'd want to hear.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: adrenachrome on June 08, 2018, 12:55:11 PM
Corrosion of the cerebral cortex and possibly synaptic seepsge.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 08, 2018, 12:56:57 PM
heh, do you think west ham would notice if we sold snodgrass? He could be onto something.....
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 12:58:24 PM
heh, do you think west ham would notice if we sold snodgrass? He could be onto something.....
Let’s sell Harry Kane.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 08, 2018, 12:59:48 PM
Don't know if this has been posted anywhere but @robbrownavfc has come up with a brilliant solution. We could also sell Harry Kane, Salah, Neymar and Messi and we'd be laughing.

"Face facts, we need to sell players to stay afloat. Sell the following...

Grealish: £18.5m
Snodgrass: £18.5m
Lansbury: £2.5m
Terry: £9m
Kodjia: £14.5m

Gives us £63m to play with. Thoughts?"






How ridiculous.

Terry is never worth £9m.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ktvillan on June 08, 2018, 01:03:41 PM
I don't believe for a second that Bree is on £23k per week
Hes not. He was purchased for the development squad and from what ive been told he is on nearer £2k with clauses up to £15k based on first team appearances etc

Might explain why he hasn;t featured much....
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dicedlam on June 08, 2018, 01:03:47 PM
I wonder if they will repossess him if we dont pay?

*crosses fingers*

They will have to scale his 4'6 fence in order to do so.

If McCormack can't do it, then the bailiffs will have no chance.


Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave shelley on June 08, 2018, 01:04:16 PM
https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1004639118343770117?s=19

Thread worth a read, covers what I'm saying above about intenglibel ways in which Chinese govt controls outlow of capital
Interesting stuff.

Indeed it is. Loved Daves dig at the bitter geordie

Can somebody better at tweeting than I am do me the kindness of replying to that Newcastle twat's gif: 'Has someone just opened NUFC's trophy cabinet?' Ta.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 08, 2018, 01:08:05 PM
https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1004639118343770117?s=19

Thread worth a read, covers what I'm saying above about intenglibel ways in which Chinese govt controls outlow of capital
Interesting stuff.

Indeed it is. Loved Daves dig at the bitter geordie

Can somebody better at tweeting than I am do me the kindness of replying to that Newcastle twat's gif: 'Has someone just opened NUFC's trophy cabinet?' Ta.

Very well played by Mr Woodhall.

Even better the bitter Geordie doesn’t understand the reference is to the very reason he’s on the feed...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 08, 2018, 02:50:40 PM
Can any of the accountants say whether the depth of shit we are in has gone up or down?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
Can any of the accountants say whether the depth of shit we are in has gone up or down?
If Tony has got 50million to put out fires then that is good news because going into Admin would be a disaster.
As I said before when you have a loss making business Money buys time, it is how you use that time is important.
Disclaimer I am not an accountant.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: yammers on June 08, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
Rego (WM bias I know!) reckons the the supposed £50 million loan is BS
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 08, 2018, 02:58:05 PM
Rego (WM bias I know!) reckons the the supposed £50 million loan is BS

Something going on at companies house though to go through next week.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: yammers on June 08, 2018, 02:58:56 PM
Everything crossed for good news. Hell some half decent news would do!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Pat McMahon on June 08, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
That £6m outstanding to Fulham McCormack is the whole sorry mess in a nutshell. I wonder if we're crossing our fingers over that gentlemen's agreement someone posted about earlier in the week about the Play Off winners looking after the losers by passing-on the Wembley receipts.

Eamonn, that was me. I heard Conor MacNamara of 5 Live say this on the Phil Williams show on the Wednesday before the final.I am not on Twitter but if somebody asked him am sure he would reply as he comes across as decent and lucid.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: fredm on June 08, 2018, 05:38:57 PM
That £6m outstanding to Fulham McCormack is the whole sorry mess in a nutshell. I wonder if we're crossing our fingers over that gentlemen's agreement someone posted about earlier in the week about the Play Off winners looking after the losers by passing-on the Wembley receipts.

Eamonn, that was me. I heard Conor MacNamara of 5 Live say this on the Phil Williams show on the Wednesday before the final.I am not on Twitter but if somebody asked him am sure he would reply as he comes across as decent and lucid.

Yep this is true.  For several years now the winners of Championship play off have forfeited any claim to takings from the final due to the amount they pick up from being in the PL compared to what the losers will receive for being in the Championship.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2018, 05:44:50 PM
Do you know how much that is, roughly?

Phil Williams is a top broadcaster and a Villa fan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Matt Collins on June 08, 2018, 06:10:44 PM
We had this debate before but fuck knows which thread it was on

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2635366/QPR-Derby-strike-deal-Wembley-gate-receipts-worth-1-5m-Championship-play-final-loser.html

Suggests 1.5 + 1.5, so 60% of one month's shortall
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: DB on June 08, 2018, 06:16:15 PM
Yes. A Norwich fan I know said the same
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: 260475 on June 08, 2018, 08:47:19 PM
Any views from our commercial accounting types as to whether STH's are unsecured creditors? I am guessing they are.

In this scenario if I fork out £615 on a 18/19 ST, and then admin (or sale) happens, does the administrator (or new owner) have to let me continue to take my seat?

I only want to know I can watch games, without being squeezed for more, unless 'more' included an ownership share, and a committment not to chuck money around. (You can read that as chuck away on bench polishers, or crazy factoring deals)

UTV
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 09:59:57 PM
Any views from our commercial accounting types as to whether STH's are unsecured creditors? I am guessing they are.

In this scenario if I fork out £615 on a 18/19 ST, and then admin (or sale) happens, does the administrator (or new owner) have to let me continue to take my seat?

I only want to know I can watch games, without being squeezed for more, unless 'more' included an ownership share, and a committment not to chuck money around. (You can read that as chuck away on bench polishers, or crazy factoring deals)

you would be an unsecured creditor which means that you could lose the money you pay if the Company goes into Administration, unless you pay by Credit Card and then you are protected under the Consumer Credit Act.
A new owner that buys the club out of Admin may have a problem in honoring the transaction because of preference issues.
So pay by Credit Card.

UTV
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 08, 2018, 10:16:00 PM
If you’d only part paid you could actually be liable to pay the administrators the rest of the dough!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 08, 2018, 10:36:00 PM
If you’d only part paid you could actually be liable to pay the administrators the rest of the dough!
No.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 08, 2018, 10:37:37 PM
It's only a problem if you think Aston Villa are going to go kaput in the next 12 months. They're not. If we went into admin, then they'd have a problem selling us after pissing off 100% of the season ticket holders who'd lost all their money! not gonna  happen. Lots of half arsed clubs have got into deeper shit than us and came out the other side, so apart from the credit card advice i wouldn't worry
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ROBBO on June 08, 2018, 10:58:35 PM
Everyone's doom and gloom but this will all be sorted by the start of the season, i think most of this has been caused by a hands off owner and a piss poor CEO. I even think that there's a good chance Jack will be staying.
I want a new manager in because  as a club need these non performers to start earning their money and that's not going to happen under Bruce.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: tomd2103 on June 08, 2018, 11:01:03 PM
Rego (WM bias I know!) reckons the the supposed £50 million loan is BS

To be fair, Regan is pretty balanced when it comes to Villa.  Unlike some others on that station. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 08, 2018, 11:04:01 PM
ChicagoLion, if you're not an accountant do you mind me asking what your profession is?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 09, 2018, 12:33:46 AM
My guess is Undertaker?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave shelley on June 09, 2018, 08:13:39 AM
ChicagoLion, if you're not an accountant do you mind me asking what your profession is?

Can we have a poll?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 09, 2018, 11:03:46 AM
just back from a week away - fuck me what a mess. He's a question for someone. I paid to renew my season ticket in April. If we kick off next season, is it going to be valid?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: JUAN PABLO on June 09, 2018, 12:25:06 PM
I see Jim Ratcliffe worth £16 billion wanted to buy Chelsea recently .

Go on Jimmy you know it makes sense , we are bigger  ...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithe on June 09, 2018, 01:50:54 PM
I see Jim Ratcliffe worth £16 billion wanted to buy Chelsea recently .

Go on Jimmy you know it makes sense , we are bigger  ...

Went to Bham University as well. Written in the stars. We’d probably skint the poor fucker in months
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: tony scott on June 09, 2018, 02:44:33 PM
As a concerned fan does anyone know what’s needed to get out of this mess, how much will it cost and can we do it by selling players and any other assets we have ?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Fred Crump on June 09, 2018, 02:53:13 PM
This is the pit of misery mate, no good asking us eternally damned souls. Go back up the stairs turn left and ask St Peter the way to the 'Villa fans concerned about the clubs future thread'
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: tony scott on June 09, 2018, 02:58:13 PM
This is the pit of misery mate, no good asking us eternally damned souls. Go back up the stairs turn left and ask St Peter the way to the 'Villa fans concerned about the clubs future thread'
Sorry asking a veteran Somerset cricketer his thoughts on the way forward for the Villa would always appear a bit silly
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Fred Crump on June 09, 2018, 03:10:57 PM
Haha , and the goalkeeping star of Nuneaton Boroughs 1967 FA Cup run as well. I think the general view of most on here is that we are either a) Fcuked b) totally fcuked or c) looking forward to an ambitious, prosperous and world leading future outside of Europe , i.e. Completely totally and utterly fcuked. But then I'm a terminally miserable Brummie......
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 04:32:29 PM
As a concerned fan does anyone know what’s needed to get out of this mess, how much will it cost and can we do it by selling players and any other assets we have ?
If the FFP clock is reset with a new owner then that is obviously the best outcome, of course assuming that we get someone that can start making good decisions.
Otherwise it will be player sales and deep austerity.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 09, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
FFP doesn't reset with a new owner does it?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 05:45:50 PM
FFP doesn't reset with a new owner does it?
I don’t know, I picked that somewhere but not been able to verify.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 09, 2018, 05:48:15 PM
When we were tightening things last summer we were including the last Lerner season as part of the FFP 3 years so I don't believe it does. If it did it would be way around FFP that would be open to abuse.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2018, 05:50:29 PM
It doesn’t, it wouldn’t make sense if it did.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 09, 2018, 05:52:06 PM
FFP problems? No worries, just sell the club to a mate for a nominal fee and start again from year 1. Not the case as far as I know as it would be that easy to abuse.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 05:54:21 PM
When we were tightening things last summer we were including the last Lerner season as part of the FFP 3 years so I don't believe it does. If it did it would be way around FFP that would be open to abuse.
Are you sure, I understand that the FFP problem relates to the 3 year period including next year, which would all be under xia ownership.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 05:57:00 PM
If that is the case then it would make it extremely unlikely that any one would buy us.
Which is worrying.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 09, 2018, 06:00:59 PM
You get to inject more equity in your first 3 years of ownership I believe.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2018, 06:02:38 PM
Ah ok.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 09, 2018, 06:08:18 PM
When we were tightening things last summer we were including the last Lerner season as part of the FFP 3 years so I don't believe it does. If it did it would be way around FFP that would be open to abuse.
Are you sure, I understand that the FFP problem relates to the 3 year period including next year, which would all be under xia ownership.


Yes. We are now in FFP covering only the Xia ownership, a year ago it included the last Lerner year and the first 2 of Tony.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 06:08:36 PM
You get to inject more equity in your first 3 years of ownership I believe.
The question is, are you allowed to use that equity to capitalise the Loss?
Because the FFP Loss is still there regardless of how much equity you introduce.
I have not been able to find an answer to the new ownership question.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 06:10:17 PM
When we were tightening things last summer we were including the last Lerner season as part of the FFP 3 years so I don't believe it does. If it did it would be way around FFP that would be open to abuse.
Are you sure, I understand that the FFP problem relates to the 3 year period including next year, which would all be under xia ownership.


Yes. We are now in FFP covering only the Xia ownership, a year ago it included the last Lerner year and the first 2 of Tony.
Thanks, so the chances of a sale are unlikely then?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 09, 2018, 06:11:03 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 06:18:05 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TheMalandro on June 09, 2018, 06:21:23 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Is there anything stopping a new owner covering the debt and keeping the team together?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Is there anything stopping a new owner covering the debt and keeping the team together?
That’s what we have been discussing above and the suggestion is not.
The debt is not the longer term problem, it’s the trading losses,
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TheMalandro on June 09, 2018, 06:38:15 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Is there anything stopping a new owner covering the debt and keeping the team together?
That’s what we have been discussing above and the suggestion is not.
The debt is not the longer term problem, it’s the trading losses,

If things are as bad as they seem, could we be in breach off FFP for the season that has just ended?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Is there anything stopping a new owner covering the debt and keeping the team together?
That’s what we have been discussing above and the suggestion is not.
The debt is not the longer term problem, it’s the trading losses,

If things are as bad as they seem, could we be in breach off FFP for the season that has just ended?
Based on everything I have readI don’t think so, it’s the culmination of last year this year and next 2017 18 and 19.
There is a chance that the turnaround in trading needed will be too difficult and we may be destined to breach it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 10, 2018, 04:14:31 PM
You get to inject more equity in your first 3 years of ownership I believe.
So can an owner having several stand alone profit making businesses keep selling the club on from one business to another to build up the capital?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Deano's Mullet on June 10, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
Feels like we're in limbo. I thought 15-16 was a low as it could get and I have actually enjoyed the progress of the last two seasons but now it feels like it's all been for nothing, two years wasted and now we're even worse off. If you had told me that Wembley day just two weeks ago - even after the final whistle - we'd be in this state I just wouldn't have believed it. I am so angry with Xia I can't reconcile that with the positivity I had felt towards him since summer 16. The worst is the feeling we are going to be picked at like some dead carcasses by teams that are of smaller stature but in a far healthier position financially. Can anyone see us getting relegated this coming season or is it not quite that bad do you think?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 10, 2018, 05:10:07 PM
Deano the worst thing we could do is have a clear out but still fall short of FFP and get a points deduction.
The remnants of the squad with all the loan players gone is plenty strong enough to stay up.
It really depends on how deep we cut, hopefully some football sense is heard in the so called meeting tomorrow.
It’s the don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 10, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
You get to inject more equity in your first 3 years of ownership I believe.

I had a look through the EFL FFP regulations and couldn't see any mention of this, although my eyes had started to glaze over a bit:

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 11, 2018, 03:34:22 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Tell that to Wolves, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, Brighton, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Hull, QPR, Reading, Wigan and Bolton fans. All teams that either got relegated and didn't go back up or who went up havign not had parachute payments.

I've not gone through all of them either.

It will be harder but it's all achievable.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 11, 2018, 06:08:30 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Tell that to Wolves, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, Brighton, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Hull, QPR, Reading, Wigan and Bolton fans. All teams that either got relegated and didn't go back up or who went up havign not had parachute payments.

I've not gone through all of them either.

It will be harder but it's all achievable.
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
If you are trying to argue that our situation can be normalised in the short term than I would love to read how you think that will happen.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 11, 2018, 06:30:52 PM
As it goes you can fiddle FFP with the whole equity loans business that Lerner did plenty of times.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 11, 2018, 06:35:15 PM
As it goes you can fiddle FFP with the whole equity loans business that Lerner did plenty of times.
Someone is going to have to explain that one to me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 11, 2018, 06:41:19 PM
Cash to equity loans are allowable. So you create another x number of shares but they all stay in the owners pocket. He can then chuck that money into the club.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 11, 2018, 06:45:04 PM
Cash to equity loans are allowable. So you create another x number of shares but they all stay in the owners pocket. He can then chuck that money into the club.
He needs to create £200m worth then and find the feckin money to buy them.
Oh......
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 11, 2018, 06:48:35 PM
Cash to equity loans are allowable. So you create another x number of shares but they all stay in the owners pocket. He can then chuck that money into the club.
He needs to create £200m worth then and find the feckin money to buy them.
Oh......

I didn't say he had the cash to do it available,  just that you can.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 11, 2018, 06:55:13 PM
Cash to equity loans are allowable. So you create another x number of shares but they all stay in the owners pocket. He can then chuck that money into the club.
I can’t see that in the FFP rules.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on June 11, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
Villa Owners
Lerner and Xia
On running the Villa
Got no idea!

In came CEO's
Wyness and Fox
In stabilising the club
They've  behaved like c-cks!

From O Neill's walk out
To present day Bruce
Each manager in turn
Has tightened the noose.

From our relegated team
Richards remains
Our once great club
His mere presence stains!

What of the future
Of AVFC?
Look to Grealish
And the academy!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 11, 2018, 08:40:39 PM
whats our starting line up going to look like in august?
           Steer

bree   ???   ??? De Laet

         jedinak/whelan

     Hourihane Landsbury

Elmo                       kodja
                Hogan

Assuming we loose Chester, Jack Adomah
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 11, 2018, 09:00:20 PM
Jedinak will go too I reckon. If he doesn't he's starting at centre half every week. Probably alongside Tuanzebe.

If Chester is going, with Terry already gone and Grealish leaving, we might be better off going to 352 next season. De Laet if he doesn't go has played on the right of a 3 before. Jedinak and a youngster maybe could make a 3. Even bringing in someone like Tuanzebe is a gamble as he was only fit for about 3 weeks. Replacing a bloke as consistent as Chester, that has played every minute of every game, is going to be virtually impossible. We should be asking for 15 million plus.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: CT on June 11, 2018, 09:05:37 PM
whats our starting line up going to look like in august?
           Steer

bree   ???   ??? De Laet

         jedinak/whelan

     Hourihane Landsbury

Elmo                       kodja
                Hogan

Assuming we loose Chester, Jack Adomah


We'll be in League one quicker than Sunderland.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: JUAN PABLO on June 11, 2018, 09:11:11 PM
we still have Green
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 11, 2018, 09:11:50 PM
On paper it doesnt look a disaster but with questionable fitness records and poor performance the reality is grim. Even with the better players being sold our squad should in theory be aiming top 10. Wonder if McCormack will find his way back.

Agree on chester, he's been key for us. will be a shame to let him go cheaply
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: davidb on June 11, 2018, 09:14:45 PM
we still have Green
He looked good didnt he. I guess the problem is he has less than 30 senior career games under his belt so we cant rely on him
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 11, 2018, 09:27:16 PM
Jedinak will go too I reckon. If he doesn't he's starting at centre half every week. Probably alongside Tuanzebe.

If Chester is going, with Terry already gone and Grealish leaving, we might be better off going to 352 next season. De Laet if he doesn't go has played on the right of a 3 before. Jedinak and a youngster maybe could make a 3. Even bringing in someone like Tuanzebe is a gamble as he was only fit for about 3 weeks. Replacing a bloke as consistent as Chester, that has played every minute of every game, is going to be virtually impossible. We should be asking for 15 million plus.

£15m? Absolutely no chance, unless we're the one paying it. He's 30 in January, and last time he moved between PL clubs he only went for 8.

He's a bit like my car; its worth to me is massively different to what anyone would be prepared to pay to take it off my hands.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 11, 2018, 11:24:00 PM
Feck knows is my considered professional opinion.
If someone buys us all they can do is finance the business without being able to make any serious investments to improve the team.
A team which will have lost its best players.
Whilst the league continues to receive relegated clubs with huge parachute payments.
We are not just fucked we are fucked for a very long time.

Tell that to Wolves, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, Brighton, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Hull, QPR, Reading, Wigan and Bolton fans. All teams that either got relegated and didn't go back up or who went up havign not had parachute payments.

I've not gone through all of them either.

It will be harder but it's all achievable.
Not sure what point you are trying to make.
If you are trying to argue that our situation can be normalised in the short term than I would love to read how you think that will happen.

You said that all the clubs with parachute payments will make us fucked for a long time. My list shows the clubs that were relegated and didn't go up again or were promoted without having had any.

We're not fucked.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 12, 2018, 12:14:09 PM
Those two files submitted to Companies house have now appeared on it's website to view.

Wyness has been dismissed and the other file I'm not sure what it is about but they are dated 25th May, so before even the play off final so what ever was'' planned'' it was going to happen one way or the other.

Can someone check them over and see what it exactly means?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 12, 2018, 01:35:17 PM
Does someone have a link
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Drummond on June 12, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
Does someone have a link

Yes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 12, 2018, 02:35:32 PM
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history)

That's the link for the companies house filing history.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 12, 2018, 02:38:15 PM
So now the board is Xia and that woman nobody's ever heard from. Yippee.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 12, 2018, 02:56:05 PM
Does someone have a link

Yes.
Well done.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Axl Rose on June 12, 2018, 03:04:44 PM
Does someone have a link

Yes.
Well done.

Any chance of seeing this link, Drummond?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 12, 2018, 11:26:41 PM
Wasn't something supposed to be happening this week? Can one of the accountants currently debating on the Wyness thread kindly advise us thickies (actually, I've got a degree, but as its in Russian, it's not entirely relevant) whether we are currently more or less fucked than we thought we were when the faeces initially impacted with the whirly thing.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Axl Rose on June 12, 2018, 11:28:42 PM
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03375789/filing-history)

That's the link for the companies house filing history.

Thank you, mate.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: liam on June 13, 2018, 12:16:31 AM
when your about to go to bed and ITV are showing "when England ruled Europe" And there we are winning the European cup.... what a shambles that this great club has been brought so low by several chancers.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 13, 2018, 07:10:36 AM
I'm slowly realizing that 50 plus years of support is like a multiple life sentence punctuated with the odd conjugal visit.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 13, 2018, 07:13:00 AM
I'm slowly realizing that 50 plus years of support is like a multiple life sentence punctuated with the odd conjugal visit.

How very melodramatic.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 13, 2018, 07:13:47 AM
really? Then give me something to hang on to!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 13, 2018, 07:19:05 AM
Because things could turn out alright, who knows? Chill out and see what develops.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave shelley on June 13, 2018, 09:33:48 AM
really? Then give me something to hang on to!

A fat girls hips?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: darren woolley on June 13, 2018, 10:04:21 AM
really? Then give me something to hang on to!

A fat girls hips?

I was feeling down today Dave but that made me laugh cheers.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 13, 2018, 10:46:55 AM
Because things could turn out alright, who knows? Chill out and see what develops.

Is that the same as sailing on hopefully?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard on June 13, 2018, 09:28:19 PM
I'm slowly realizing that 50 plus years of support is like a multiple life sentence punctuated with the odd conjugal visit.

Really ? I'd quite happily take our last 50 years because for me the various highs have far outweighed the lows.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2018, 09:34:49 PM
Clubs that have done better than us over the past fifty years - Liverpool, Arsenal, Forest, Manchester United, arguably Spurs and Everton, plus Manchester City and Chelsea bought their success. Are there any others?

We don't half like to revel in misery sometimes.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 13, 2018, 09:41:15 PM
Over 50 years you can add Leeds to the list.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 13, 2018, 09:50:37 PM
Over 50 years you can add Leeds to the list.

They've not won as many trophies as us in the fifty years beginning 13th June 1968.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 13, 2018, 09:55:06 PM
Leeds have done quite well in convincing the world they're not a 2nd division club, when they've not won a fat lot at all really and have spent the majority of their existence in this league.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2018, 11:14:31 PM
Other than a brief period under Revie Leeds have always been a good second tier club. They obviously get big crowds being a single club in a reasonably large city other than that they are no better than Cov City Bristol City etc.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2018, 11:19:17 PM
Clubs that have done better than us over the past fifty years - Liverpool, Arsenal, Forest, Manchester United, arguably Spurs and Everton, plus Manchester City and Chelsea bought their success. Are there any others?

We don't half like to revel in misery sometimes.
Past 50 years takes us to 1968 so Spurs and Everton have not done better than us even considering Everton’s league titles in mid 80’s.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 13, 2018, 11:24:10 PM
3 titles to our 1, 2 FA Cups to our 0, 0 LC to our 4, 1 CWC vs our EC, 0 seasons out of the top flight to our 11. Sadly, Everton edge it for me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 13, 2018, 11:47:07 PM
Last 25 years (trying not to present it as when football was created but it's still a decent chunk of time in football history( we've won two league cups, same as Spurs. Everton with their one FA cup so pretty level there.

What's killed things is our rapid decline since 2010 as Everton have stayed relatively stable and Spurs have improved which has put a different slant on league positions as it was also very close between the three.

Sadly we didn't move with the times and the mis-managed at the top really caught up with us while on the whole Spurs and Everton have made decent managerial appointments.

Martinez, Koeman, Marco Silva.

Redknapp, AVB, Pochettino.

Ours look amateurish in comparison.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: robleflaneur on June 13, 2018, 11:48:22 PM
Clubs that have done better than us over the past fifty years - Liverpool, Arsenal, Forest, Manchester United, arguably Spurs and Everton, plus Manchester City and Chelsea bought their success. Are there any others?

We don't half like to revel in misery sometimes.
I think that we are quite tolerant.Would we have demanded the head of a manager who in 22 years always finished in the top 6,won the double twice,went a league season unbeaten,and won the FA Cup 3 times in the last 5 years.Also the only club in that list who have not been relegated in any of their fans' lifetime.Definition of being miserable.

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 13, 2018, 11:51:56 PM
Quite possibly. Success changes expectations.

Being charged a grand a season ticket probably doesn't help, either.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2018, 03:32:01 AM
3 titles to our 1, 2 FA Cups to our 0, 0 LC to our 4, 1 CWC vs our EC, 0 seasons out of the top flight to our 11. Sadly, Everton edge it for me.
Well Everton come close only when you take into account no relegation but that’s not winning stuff.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: David_Nab on June 14, 2018, 04:31:38 AM
Last 25 years (trying not to present it as when football was created but it's still a decent chunk of time in football history( we've won two league cups, same as Spurs. Everton with their one FA cup so pretty level there.

What's killed things is our rapid decline since 2010 as Everton have stayed relatively stable and Spurs have improved which has put a different slant on league positions as it was also very close between the three.

Sadly we didn't move with the times and the mis-managed at the top really caught up with us while on the whole Spurs and Everton have made decent managerial appointments.

Martinez, Koeman, Marco Silva.

Redknapp, AVB, Pochettino.

Ours look amateurish in comparison.

Our managers have all been poor and I include MON in that , he like Bruce spent loads and achieved nothing and worse left the club with bang average players with high wages and no sell on value.

But then the ceo and chairmen position has also been bang average also so the problems start at top and work their way down

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 14, 2018, 04:54:53 AM
Over 50 years you can add Leeds to the list.

They've not won as many trophies as us in the fifty years beginning 13th June 1968.

They had won the League Cup in the March, so they were the holders.
 
Add to that the Fairs Cup, FA Cup, two league titles and a Charity Shield.

By my calculation, compared to us they're down two domestic cups (and we've reached more finals), up one league title, and won the Charity Shield outright. We both have won a European trophy (although they've been to more finals and their defeat in 75 was somewhat controversial).

Let's agree that that makes them our equal over five decades. Added to which, over that period we also probably both have as many chokes in cup finals as one another.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 14, 2018, 07:40:32 AM
Fairs Cup isn’t a recognised trophy by UEFA and the Charity Shield is a glorified friendly.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 14, 2018, 07:55:13 AM
Perhaps, but it is difficult to argue that the Fairs Cup doesn't constitute a major honour as it was the direct predecessor of the UEFA Cup.

I'll concede your point about the Charity Shield - when clubs remove it from their roll of honour. Likewise the Super Cup (although our second leg against Barcelona was anything but friendly).
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mattjpa on June 14, 2018, 08:34:38 AM
Last 25 years (trying not to present it as when football was created but it's still a decent chunk of time in football history( we've won two league cups, same as Spurs. Everton with their one FA cup so pretty level there.

What's killed things is our rapid decline since 2010 as Everton have stayed relatively stable and Spurs have improved which has put a different slant on league positions as it was also very close between the three.

Sadly we didn't move with the times and the mis-managed at the top really caught up with us while on the whole Spurs and Everton have made decent managerial appointments.

Martinez, Koeman, Marco Silva.

Redknapp, AVB, Pochettino.

Ours look amateurish in comparison.
Was saying this to a spurs fan on twitter the other day. He said a large portion of their fan base moan about Levy and how he holds them back by being tight and not paying big for the best players, I told him i would kill for Levy in charge of us for the last feew years(even though he is a cock) Its almost impossible to believe that 10 years ago, Villa, Portsmouth and Blackburn all finished well clear of Spurs (5 points or so)

The people that have precided over the league in that time should hang their heads in shame...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on June 14, 2018, 08:38:54 AM
Charity Shield and Fairs Cup my arse. Might as well include the Intertoto Cup in that case.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 14, 2018, 09:30:22 AM
Last 25 years (trying not to present it as when football was created but it's still a decent chunk of time in football history( we've won two league cups, same as Spurs. Everton with their one FA cup so pretty level there.

What's killed things is our rapid decline since 2010 as Everton have stayed relatively stable and Spurs have improved which has put a different slant on league positions as it was also very close between the three.

Sadly we didn't move with the times and the mis-managed at the top really caught up with us while on the whole Spurs and Everton have made decent managerial appointments.

Martinez, Koeman, Marco Silva.

Redknapp, AVB, Pochettino.

Ours look amateurish in comparison.

Our managers have all been poor and I include MON in that , he like Bruce spent loads and achieved nothing and worse left the club with bang average players with high wages and no sell on value.

But then the ceo and chairmen position has also been bang average also so the problems start at top and work their way down



MON was still a big name at the time and pretty highly rated.

Plenty of neutral around that time would've been impressed by us appointing him, probably seen as a coup in 2006.

I imagine when we appointed Houllier in 2010, most thought he'd retired. I certainly did so that to me is a managerial appointment that didn't continue the momentum we had from previous 3 years.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 14, 2018, 09:32:01 AM
Last 25 years (trying not to present it as when football was created but it's still a decent chunk of time in football history( we've won two league cups, same as Spurs. Everton with their one FA cup so pretty level there.

What's killed things is our rapid decline since 2010 as Everton have stayed relatively stable and Spurs have improved which has put a different slant on league positions as it was also very close between the three.

Sadly we didn't move with the times and the mis-managed at the top really caught up with us while on the whole Spurs and Everton have made decent managerial appointments.

Martinez, Koeman, Marco Silva.

Redknapp, AVB, Pochettino.

Ours look amateurish in comparison.

Our managers have all been poor and I include MON in that , he like Bruce spent loads and achieved nothing and worse left the club with bang average players with high wages and no sell on value.

But then the ceo and chairmen position has also been bang average also so the problems start at top and work their way down



MON was still a big name at the time and pretty highly rated.

Plenty of neutral around that time would've been impressed by us appointing him, probably seen as a coup in 2006.

I imagine when we appointed Houllier in 2010, most thought he'd retired. I certainly did so that to me is a managerial appointment that didn't continue the momentum we had from previous 3 years.

it was a massive deal at the time, I remeber I was on holiday in Cornwall and it was the national evening news, with the VP open and the press conference and everything!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 14, 2018, 09:33:00 AM
Charity Shield and Fairs Cup my arse. Might as well include the Intertoto Cup in that case.

Don't forget the Peace Cup.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2018, 09:33:12 AM
Over 50 years you can add Leeds to the list.

They've not won as many trophies as us in the fifty years beginning 13th June 1968.

They had won the League Cup in the March, so they were the holders.
 
Add to that the Fairs Cup, FA Cup, two league titles and a Charity Shield.

By my calculation, compared to us they're down two domestic cups (and we've reached more finals), up one league title, and won the Charity Shield outright. We both have won a European trophy (although they've been to more finals and their defeat in 75 was somewhat controversial).

Let's agree that that makes them our equal over five decades. Added to which, over that period we also probably both have as many chokes in cup finals as one another.

Have you forgotten the Peace Cup already?!  David O'Leary was right etc..
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 14, 2018, 09:43:16 AM
Over 50 years you can add Leeds to the list.

They've not won as many trophies as us in the fifty years beginning 13th June 1968.

They had won the League Cup in the March, so they were the holders.
 
Add to that the Fairs Cup, FA Cup, two league titles and a Charity Shield.

By my calculation, compared to us they're down two domestic cups (and we've reached more finals), up one league title, and won the Charity Shield outright. We both have won a European trophy (although they've been to more finals and their defeat in 75 was somewhat controversial).

Let's agree that that makes them our equal over five decades. Added to which, over that period we also probably both have as many chokes in cup finals as one another.

I don't agree. We've had a better past fifty years than Leeds. We've won more, our average league place is higher and we've been in the top division for longer.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Walmley_Villa on June 14, 2018, 09:44:34 AM
Just to cheer you all up a bit, some naming news from across the Expressway

"The Club has agreed a significant naming rights partnership with Trillion Trophy Asia Ltd.With immediate effect, Blues ground will be renamed St. Andrew's Trillion Trophy Stadium.And the Wast Hills training complex will become the Trillion Trophy Training Centre."
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 14, 2018, 09:46:24 AM
It’s the next fifty years that bother me, I’ve just passed this chalice to my son.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Man With A Stick on June 14, 2018, 11:01:05 AM
A trillion is 1,000,000,000,000, so they're only 999,999,999,996 off the number of trophies they've won. It's near enough I guess, I don't want to be pedantic about it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 14, 2018, 11:32:17 AM
why do we care a shiny shite about Leeds United?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Fred Crump on June 14, 2018, 05:00:43 PM
A Leeds supporting mate ( soon to be ex! )  just told me we have just announced two European pre-season friendliest- against Rapid Decline and Inter Administration. I did my best to appear unamused, but I must admit when he had gone I did have a chuckle. It’s my way of coping with the current farce - if you don’t laugh you’d have to cry.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Allan C on June 14, 2018, 11:15:33 PM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 14, 2018, 11:20:23 PM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????

Oh toughen up for crying out loud (no offence meant though). The club will fight on and continue and we’ll come back stronger however long it takes.
I don’t know about anyone else but all this crap we’ve had to endure has made me love the club even more.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 15, 2018, 06:47:29 AM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????

Oh toughen up for crying out loud (no offence meant though). The club will fight on and continue and we’ll come back stronger however long it takes.
I don’t know about anyone else but all this crap we’ve had to endure has made me love the club even more.

In the late sixties they ripped up the old plan that had seen them fall down the leagues and started again with a completely fresh idea on the way forward. When you reach the bottom, you either change your ways completely or you continue to fail and eventually fold.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on June 15, 2018, 06:56:04 AM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????

Oh toughen up for crying out loud (no offence meant though). The club will fight on and continue and we’ll come back stronger however long it takes.
I don’t know about anyone else but all this crap we’ve had to endure has made me love the club even more.

It kind of makes you want to see it fight harder doesn't it. I am as gutted as anyone about losing the players we are about to lose, but new ones will come through. We will be back.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 15, 2018, 07:29:35 AM
that's the spirit - come on you Villa boys (literally)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Allan C on June 15, 2018, 07:46:36 AM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????

Oh toughen up for crying out loud (no offence meant though). The club will fight on and continue and we’ll come back stronger however long it takes.
I don’t know about anyone else but all this crap we’ve had to endure has made me love the club even more.

In the late sixties they ripped up the old plan that had seen them fall down the leagues and started again with a completely fresh idea on the way forward. When you reach the bottom, you either change your ways completely or you continue to fail and eventually fold.
Don’t misunderstand me. I know we’ll fight back as we did then and yes, we’ll be strong again. I just hope that the “ripping up the old plan” involves getting rid of the buffoons who got us here in the first place. Where is our “Vic Crowe” and “HDE” ??
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 15, 2018, 08:12:18 AM
First things first, Fred call your Leeds friend and have as big a bet as you can afford that we finish above them next season.

Aston Villa is a leathery old crocodile that will bite your legs off.

We survived the passing of the hat round the fans to buy Bruce Rioch from Luton (they chucked in the wonderful Villa servant Neil Rioch for free) bloody certain we can survive this.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave shelley on June 15, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
I was around for the transmogrification of the Villa back then.  The scenarios are chillingly similar and very frightening.  There is one small difference between now and then IMO and that is, it didn't take billionaires back then to overhaul a club and get it back on a sound financial footing and put it in a position to challenge for the top honours.  I accept the fact that the value of money is relative.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 15, 2018, 08:28:16 AM
Not convinced that Bruce is the man to turn us around.  If it’s a multi year plan with some ups and downs I don’t think his brand of football will keep people interested during that period.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: DB on June 15, 2018, 08:39:38 AM
Not convinced that Bruce is the man to turn us around.  If it’s a multi year plan with some ups and downs I don’t think his brand of football will keep people interested during that period.


Then who is it that will play a ‘better’ brand of football and get us promoted with the seemingly financial constraints we are under?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 15, 2018, 08:41:43 AM
Personally I’d look at Dean Smith who has put together teams on budgets playing good football with an emphasis on developing younger players.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Proposition Joe on June 15, 2018, 10:26:52 AM
Personally I’d look at Dean Smith who has put together teams on budgets playing good football with an emphasis on developing younger players.

But isn't the thing that for the most part he hasn't put together the team, it's been done chiefly by the data mining / analytics guys they have there? I would be wary about extrapolating success at an analytics-soaked club like Brentford to a more "analog" old school chaotic mess like ours.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 15, 2018, 10:45:57 AM
Not convinced that Bruce is the man to turn us around.  If it’s a multi year plan with some ups and downs I don’t think his brand of football will keep people interested during that period.


Then who is it that will play a ‘better’ brand of football and get us promoted with the seemingly financial constraints we are under?

Nathan Jones, Chris Wilder and Smith would guarantee better football on a low budget. Guaranteed promotion is another thing, just ask SB.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 15, 2018, 11:32:25 AM
Personally I’d look at Dean Smith who has put together teams on budgets playing good football with an emphasis on developing younger players.

But isn't the thing that for the most part he hasn't put together the team, it's been done chiefly by the data mining / analytics guys they have there? I would be wary about extrapolating success at an analytics-soaked club like Brentford to a more "analog" old school chaotic mess like ours.

I think the data is used to an extent yes, in terms of identifying players who are better suited to be able to perform in a certain way.

You still need the correct coaching to implement though! It has to be better than aimless passing back to the keeper for a long ball to Hogan.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 16, 2018, 01:32:37 AM
I'm going to mention 'Moneyball' just to annoy PeterWithesShin! :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 01:41:40 AM
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/sA4LT9ljReiD6/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 16, 2018, 07:23:41 AM
We could create a  PWS Hadron Collider if we mentioned Moneyball and Mick McCarthy in a single post.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 16, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
I have two words for you, one of which is an initialism, mashed together to make one; sabermetrics. *drops mic*
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Perthvillan on June 16, 2018, 07:37:23 AM
I have never been so desperately despondent about supporting the Villa. My dad and uncles used to tell me about how bad things were in the mid to late sixties until HDE took over. I started going in 69 so I’ve seen some bad times too. This is definitely my mid sixties. 2nd division, bankrupt and about to sell our best players with a dinosaur as a manager. Does it get any worse than that????

Oh toughen up for crying out loud (no offence meant though). The club will fight on and continue and we’ll come back stronger however long it takes.
I don’t know about anyone else but all this crap we’ve had to endure has made me love the club even more.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Perthvillan on June 16, 2018, 07:43:34 AM
Gotta agree Saunders Heroes, I have supported Villa for 50 years and way back then we were in pretty bad shape. We went from the Third Division to European champions in ten years. I know the financial Si taut ion is completely different today but as fans we keep the faith. "Owners" and players come and go but we remain. We will come through this mess and go on.
UTV
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Zouch Villa on June 16, 2018, 08:17:39 AM
Personally I’d look at Dean Smith who has put together teams on budgets playing good football with an emphasis on developing younger players.

The sad truth is, if Bruce is not inclined to just walk away, then we probably can’t afford to us what little money we have got to pay him off and then attract a replacement.

There will clearly be a very different transfer policy this season, with us focusing on the ‘young, hungry and cheap’ prospects that we tried then bottled it a few years ago.  The key for me is how robust is our scouting and coaching infrastructure?  I’m not sure Xia is about to invest in BMH to deliver long term results.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 08:38:13 AM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 16, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Agree with all of that.  What little money we have should be channelled into coaching and scouting.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eddiemunster on June 16, 2018, 08:50:58 AM
Not sure if anyone has already talked of it elsewhere on this site, with regards to FFP, but what is to stop the Dr from renaming the stadium and training ground, like the noses have, to get round FFP ??
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 08:53:10 AM
Not sure if anyone has already talked of it elsewhere on this site, with regards to FFP, but what is to stop the Dr from renaming the stadium and training ground, like the noses have, to get round FFP ??

Not as easy as that. Xia could sponsor it for £200m but
A) I think he’s full of crap and hasn’t got a pot to piss in
B) The league would value it at ‘fair market value’ and only allow that to contribute to FFP. Newcastle’s stadium naming rights was worth less than £2m a year
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AV82EC on June 16, 2018, 08:54:25 AM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

Yep, what we should have done when Xia arrived.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 12:08:40 PM
I was just having my orange juice and started thinking we should rip it up and start again.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 16, 2018, 01:09:11 PM
I was just having my orange juice and started thinking we should rip it up and start again.

I Hope to God we can.  Somehow ;)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 16, 2018, 02:26:17 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: KevinGage on June 16, 2018, 02:31:44 PM
Not sure if anyone has already talked of it elsewhere on this site, with regards to FFP, but what is to stop the Dr from renaming the stadium and training ground, like the noses have, to get round FFP ??

At the last count, it has only been mentioned about 550 times since the play off final.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 02:58:37 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

Brian Little - Leicester city
Gregory - Wycombe

They didn’t do too bad did they? Connection - they understood our club.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 16, 2018, 03:05:39 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

Brian Little - Leicester city
Gregory - Wycombe

They didn’t do too bad did they? Connection - they understood our club.

you really don't know the modern football fan do you,   the football world was completely different when Gregory and Little was our manager.   you want Dean Smith here and expect him to have time to evolve?  sadly in the modern day if he didn't hit the ground running then the claws will be out for him.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 03:06:36 PM
You with Benteke is the perfect example Stuart  :P
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 16, 2018, 03:10:27 PM
You with Benteke is the perfect example Stuart  :P

how's Benteke been since he left us?  scoring for fun has he? 

27 goals since he left us, that's an average of 9 goals a season.  Says a lot really doesn't it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 03:25:17 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

Brian Little - Leicester city
Gregory - Wycombe

They didn’t do too bad did they? Connection - they understood our club.

you really don't know the modern football fan do you,   the football world was completely different when Gregory and Little was our manager.   you want Dean Smith here and expect him to have time to evolve?  sadly in the modern day if he didn't hit the ground running then the claws will be out for him.

That ‘could’ happen with whoever was in charge. If we saw different systems, attacking intent and a team who clearly want to play football, don’t know how you can say for certain a few results would result in claws being out.

So we’re forever dammed to a boring, ‘experienced’ manager cause we may not achieve anything but they could cope with the pressure!? Better call Mick McCarthy then if Bruce was to go.

How the hell will we ever know what could be achieved if we don’t give anyone a chance. Every successful player or manager ever, all started without the ‘experience’.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 03:27:05 PM
You with Benteke is the perfect example Stuart  :P

how's Benteke been since he left us?  scoring for fun has he? 

27 goals since he left us, that's an average of 9 goals a season.  Says a lot really doesn't it.

Says more that you keep coming out with that crap.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 16, 2018, 03:29:25 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

Brian Little - Leicester city
Gregory - Wycombe

They didn’t do too bad did they? Connection - they understood our club.

you really don't know the modern football fan do you,   the football world was completely different when Gregory and Little was our manager.   you want Dean Smith here and expect him to have time to evolve?  sadly in the modern day if he didn't hit the ground running then the claws will be out for him.

That ‘could’ happen with whoever was in charge. If we saw different systems, attacking intent and a team who clearly want to play football, don’t know how you can say for certain a few results would result in claws being out.

So we’re forever dammed to a boring, ‘experienced’ manager cause we may not achieve anything but they could cope with the pressure!? Better call Mick McCarthy then if Bruce was to go.

How the hell will we ever know what could be achieved if we don’t give anyone a chance. Every successful player or manager ever, all started without the ‘experience’.

How will we ever know,  quite easily as your question has been answered already we tried inexperienced managers and we are now in the Championship
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 16, 2018, 03:30:26 PM
36 including Internationals.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: stuart445 on June 16, 2018, 03:34:40 PM
You with Benteke is the perfect example Stuart  :P

how's Benteke been since he left us?  scoring for fun has he? 

27 goals since he left us, that's an average of 9 goals a season.  Says a lot really doesn't it.

Says more that you keep coming out with that crap.

look at the stats since leaving us he has scored 27 goals that is an average of 9 a season.    This is not crap these are facts.  Benteke has played for 3 clubs in England and he's only been any good at 1,  so it turns out we was the exception rather than the rule.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 03:40:51 PM
I'm talking about his time with us, when after a few games you said he was shit and would always be. You were wrong, with the added irony you often complain about 'modern' fans not giving anyone time.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 16, 2018, 03:42:02 PM
And he scored 15 league goals for Palace in his first season, but I guess that was a one off as well after all he's had 6 seasons in England and had 1 bad season.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 04:19:23 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

Brian Little - Leicester city
Gregory - Wycombe

They didn’t do too bad did they? Connection - they understood our club.

you really don't know the modern football fan do you,   the football world was completely different when Gregory and Little was our manager.   you want Dean Smith here and expect him to have time to evolve?  sadly in the modern day if he didn't hit the ground running then the claws will be out for him.

That ‘could’ happen with whoever was in charge. If we saw different systems, attacking intent and a team who clearly want to play football, don’t know how you can say for certain a few results would result in claws being out.

So we’re forever dammed to a boring, ‘experienced’ manager cause we may not achieve anything but they could cope with the pressure!? Better call Mick McCarthy then if Bruce was to go.

How the hell will we ever know what could be achieved if we don’t give anyone a chance. Every successful player or manager ever, all started without the ‘experience’.

How will we ever know,  quite easily as your question has been answered already we tried inexperienced managers and we are now in the Championship

And yet we have an ‘experienced’ one now who is an ‘expert’ and yet we are still in the championship.
Definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over yet expecting a different outcome
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 04:22:31 PM
Stuart - out of interest who do you classify as experienced enough for us? Surely success should be as important if not more so than just experienced?
Ian Holloway is experienced, so is Mick McCarthy - do these types fit the bill for you?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 16, 2018, 04:31:07 PM
The ability to coach young players and know the lower league market should be a higher priority than experience right now.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 16, 2018, 04:35:39 PM
The ability to coach young players and know the lower league market should be a higher priority than experience right now.
👏🏻👏🏻
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 16, 2018, 07:38:54 PM
You with Benteke is the perfect example Stuart  :P

how's Benteke been since he left us?  scoring for fun has he? 

27 goals since he left us, that's an average of 9 goals a season.  Says a lot really doesn't it.

Says more that you keep coming out with that crap.

look at the stats since leaving us he has scored 27 goals that is an average of 9 a season.    This is not crap these are facts.  Benteke has played for 3 clubs in England and he's only been any good at 1,  so it turns out we was the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah but then again, we are Villa fans so who gives a shit what he does when he goes elsewhere. He was good for us, which is all he needed to be.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 16, 2018, 07:45:10 PM
Peter Withe wasn't too clever when he was at Barrow and Southport.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 16, 2018, 08:24:01 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

The difference between Bruce and the rest is that he is managing at a far lower level with players that are on par with the best in the division.  A massive difference.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 16, 2018, 08:31:41 PM
For me I’d say we have to up for sale. I don’t think Xia will make any changes to the management team (involving payoffs etc) while we are in this position. Just can’t shake the feeling that this is ANOTHER wasted opportunity to do things ‘properly’.
Bruce was employed for one reason, he was allegedly the promotion ‘expert’. Style was sacrificed in exchange for a quick return to the prem. This short sighted approach has backfired and He has been an utter failure.
We are now in another new era, one of no big budgets, the requirement to be more dynamic and build a sustainable youthful team. One based on no more recruitment of OAP’s with zero sell on potential or lack of general ROI.
This new era is in dire need of a whole new coaching setup and approach. Bruce is NOT that man nor will he all of a sudden cast aside 10 years+ of management to change his ‘style’.

I have been a champion of Dean Smith for ages and would love to see him have a crack. If we tried something new and dynamic then the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve. I just cannot see any patience being given to Bruce this season. Anymore no shows in the first/second half, his usual “that’s the championship” crap post match. He moaned about FFP constantly last season, god knows how bad it will be hearing every week how we’ve lost big players in Jack, Chester and JT but “that’s where we are”.
Granted I can see why some people think in this time of instability it’s the safer bet to have him. Ultimately though ‘the safer’ bet has contributed to this mess.

Rip it all up and start fresh I say

I read right up until you said "the fans would give a lot of patience while we evolve."  Do you not know Villa fans actually scrap that do you not know the modern Football fan?  there is not a chance of patience whilst we evolve.

It's all very well calling for Dean Smith but the pressure at Brentford who are at the highest they have ever been so the fans are happy with where they are,  whereas here it couldn't be more different remember Paul Lambert he was like Dean Smith until we signed him.  I think some on here are underestimating the pressure of being the manager of Aston Villa. 

Houllier experienced manager struggled but was getting there until his heart stopped him,  McLeish experienced not spectacular but did ok,  Lambert Inexperienced Failed,  Sherwood Inexperienced brief success but ultimately failed,  Garde Inexperienced Failed, RDM relatively experienced failed (proved the Champions league was down to the players),  Bruce experienced i'd say succeeded as he was able to stop the rot and got us competitive again.

Villa need experienced managers as the pressure of expectation that a club like ours brings crushes an inexperienced manager.

The difference between Bruce and the rest is that he is managing at a far lower level with players that are on par with the best in the division.  A massive difference.
Yes but apparently he succeeded, despite not meeting his remit.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 16, 2018, 11:43:11 PM
Please stop the ducking quotation you fucking thread-hoggers.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rotterdam on June 17, 2018, 07:56:35 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 17, 2018, 08:07:05 AM
I expect James Nursey to be reporting this as an exclusive later today.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 17, 2018, 08:13:52 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

This wouldn’t surprise me unfortunately. What’s are the chances we literally never hear from Xia again!?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on June 17, 2018, 08:17:55 AM
I'd be surprised that we have committed to a contract with Hutton if we're to enter administration.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 17, 2018, 08:34:34 AM
This is all so depressingly reminiscent of the communication lock down Lerner imposed when MON left.  Because nothing is said and because any official pronouncements are robot generated all we have are wild rumour and counter rumour each more corrosive tan the last.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 17, 2018, 08:40:15 AM
This is very much similar to th the radio silence under Lerner. The fact that Xia hasn’t even come back to country during the crisis (so far) speaks volumes of his intentions imo.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 17, 2018, 08:43:25 AM
I can't believe no-one called out Stuart for describing McLeish as "not spectacular but did OK". What planet was that on? He was the first of the dross, as everyone knew he would be.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 17, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
I'd be surprised that we have committed to a contract with Hutton if we're to enter administration.

Maybe he’s handling the administration as a sideline?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 17, 2018, 09:12:33 AM
This is very much similar to th the radio silence under Lerner. The fact that Xia hasn’t even come back to country during the crisis (so far) speaks volumes of his intentions imo.
His money and presumably any money issues will be in China so its no surprise he is there.
I would imagine there are serious levels of effort behind the scenes with him trying to cut deals and negotiate money release through various ways.
If images or reports came out he was on holiday then I would be worried but at present I suggest we let him get on with it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 09:33:08 AM
This is all so depressingly reminiscent of the communication lock down Lerner imposed when MON left.  Because nothing is said and because any official pronouncements are robot generated all we have are wild rumour and counter rumour each more corrosive tan the last.

On the other side of the coin though, I don't see why they should respond to every article John Percy and the like come out with. Anyway, any statements they do make are normally shouted down by people on Facebook and Twitter. I think letting the dust settle is best for now.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 17, 2018, 09:33:54 AM
I can't believe no-one called out Stuart for describing McLeish as "not spectacular but did OK". What planet was that on? He was the first of the dross, as everyone knew he would be.
He had a 42% win ratio. One of the highest in donkeys years. Just sayin
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 17, 2018, 09:49:18 AM
not with us he didn't - it was 21.4% and we avoided relegation by 2 points. Only 4 home wins. The guy was a total fuckwad.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 17, 2018, 09:49:19 AM
I can't believe no-one called out Stuart for describing McLeish as "not spectacular but did OK". What planet was that on? He was the first of the dross, as everyone knew he would be.
He had a 42% win ratio. One of the highest in donkeys years. Just sayin

We won 7 games. Try 18%.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 17, 2018, 10:08:35 AM
I think he included his Rangers tenure.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 17, 2018, 10:27:30 AM
y
not with us he didn't - it was 21.4% and we avoided relegation by 2 points. Only 4 home wins. The guy was a total fuckwad.
Fookin hell where did I get that stat from then? I stand corrected.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: shipscat on June 17, 2018, 10:29:05 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

Unfortunately...I've heard something very similar off someone who's been on the money on a number of happenings at Villa Pk and BMH...Although he's saying the important dates are around about the 28/29th.



Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: JUAN PABLO on June 17, 2018, 10:35:07 AM
Going back to the Bruce vs Smith debate

I would say Smith for me

Is it four meeting between the two managers the last two seasons

Bruces big squad on big wages vs low budget Smiths team

14 Sep 2016   Aston Villa v Brentford   D   1-1   
31 Jan 2017   Brentford v Aston Villa   L   3-0   
09 Sep 2017   Aston Villa v Brentford   D   0-0   ( brentford the better team by far )
26 Dec 2017   Brentford v Aston Villa   L   2-1

Brentford's football was a lot more dynamic passing the ball quick around the pitch compared to Bruces hoof ball in the game . We made Ryan Woods look Iniesta compared to some of our players and Bruce is yet to beat him .

so with no money and the young players is a yes for Smith to me , out of the two.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Steve67 on June 17, 2018, 10:39:53 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

Unfortunately...I've heard something very similar off someone who's been on the money on a number of happenings at Villa Pk and BMH...Although he's saying the important dates are around about the 28/29th.





I've heard this too, from the original consortium of British people who want to buy the club. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: achilles on June 17, 2018, 10:46:42 AM
I'd be surprised that we have committed to a contract with Hutton if we're to enter administration.

Yes, that would be negligent of duty, if true, but to be honest, absolutely nothing would surprise me any more concerning this joke of a club!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: achilles on June 17, 2018, 10:51:00 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

Unfortunately...I've heard something very similar off someone who's been on the money on a number of happenings at Villa Pk and BMH...Although he's saying the important dates are around about the 28/29th.





Could be true as all the bills will come in at the end of the month and if the money isn't there or going to be, well it is curtains for us!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 17, 2018, 10:51:21 AM
I can't imagine we need to go into administration. End of the day whatever bill is on the horizon in the next month could be covered by selling Grealish etc...
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 17, 2018, 10:58:29 AM
Tend to agree there are at least 2-3 players we could sell almost immediately but what happens if we do - can we start the season and would we have an immediate points deduction
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: BoVillan esq on June 17, 2018, 10:58:49 AM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

Unfortunately...I've heard something very similar off someone who's been on the money on a number of happenings at Villa Pk and BMH...Although he's saying the important dates are around about the 28/29th.

If true, Horrendous, not the end of the world, mate of mine said a few days ago, being a Leicester fan, said it happened there a while back but they bounced back, I pointed out these are different times and this is Aston Villa. 



Could be true as all the bills will come in at the end of the month and if the money isn't there or going to be, well it is curtains for us!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on June 17, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
Tend to agree there are at least 2-3 players we could sell almost immediately but what happens if we do - can we start the season and would we have an immediate points deduction

think it would be points deduction and we'd have to make assurances we could complete our fixture list. Tony would lose a fortune so unless he's taken out some loan to bankroll us before and it's due in this month, i can imagine him selling off players to buy time until he can find any sort of buyer
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 17, 2018, 12:20:48 PM
Leicester was under different regulations. In fact, their absolute piss take was the catalyst for the rules being changed.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 17, 2018, 12:29:44 PM
Rumours that’s Xia turned down some takeover bids. Surely if admin was still a serious option he would have just cut his losses and sold up!? He will get nothing if we fall into admin.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 17, 2018, 12:36:27 PM
A mate who works at VP in the offices,  told me the word on the street is we will go into administration next week.

Unfortunately...I've heard something very similar off someone who's been on the money on a number of happenings at Villa Pk and BMH...Although he's saying the important dates are around about the 28/29th.





I've heard this too, from the original consortium of British people who want to buy the club. 

Well this has cheered me up no end 🤦🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2018, 12:51:26 PM
I'd be surprised that we have committed to a contract with Hutton if we're to enter administration.

Yes, that would be negligent of duty, if true, but to be honest, absolutely nothing would surprise me any more concerning this joke of a club!
Joke owners not Club.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TonyD on June 17, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
Unless there is a massive cut in wages and outgoings combined with a very big cash injection, then administration is going to happen. 

We heed a new owner pronto.  And a new manager. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 17, 2018, 01:05:07 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES


Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Tayls_7 on June 17, 2018, 02:04:46 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES

(https://d2gg9evh47fn9z.cloudfront.net/800px_COLOURBOX3384025.jpg)

Oh come on. Surely it's not all that bad.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 17, 2018, 02:10:39 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES




All the time Fistface is here we're contracted to pay him £3m for the following 12 months as part of his rolling contract.  In two years time we'll therefore have paid him £6m.  Bin the useless sod off, pay Dean Smith or somebody similar £1m a year, and in two years time we'll have saved a million. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 02:13:41 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 17, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.

I find you a bit sad to be honest Clamps.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 17, 2018, 02:39:23 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.

I find you a bit sad to be honest Clamps.

Oh well. I can't say i'll lose too much sleep over it.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andrew08 on June 17, 2018, 02:42:27 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.

How do you know that?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TheMalandro on June 17, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
Bruce failed. Fistface is hardly the worst insult and
losing his parents is irrelevant.








Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: old man villa fan on June 17, 2018, 02:50:17 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES




All the time Fistface is here we're contracted to pay him £3m for the following 12 months as part of his rolling contract.  In two years time we'll therefore have paid him £6m.  Bin the useless sod off, pay Dean Smith or somebody similar £1m a year, and in two years time we'll have saved a million.

I would put him on 12 months notice now. I would rather we find the money to get rid of him now, even if it is at the expense of new players/wages. By giving him notice, he might even walk due to his ego and save us money.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Emmo on June 17, 2018, 03:05:14 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 17, 2018, 03:17:46 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.

Indeed. He looks more like a melted Bill Clinton.

And I write that as somebody with dead and demented parents. And I earn less than the fifty-seven grand he gets paid each week in a year. That's what I find sad.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 17, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
Bruce failed. Fistface is hardly the worst insult and
losing his parents is irrelevant.
I got tutted at for calling Ronaldo 'ladyboy' yesterday. We've been using these nicknames well over a decade now. Suddenly, it's out of order for some.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 17, 2018, 03:41:40 PM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 17, 2018, 03:45:37 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.

How do you know that?

Reliable sauces.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Nunkin1965 on June 17, 2018, 03:46:43 PM
Fistface could be used as a Sun headline just like Turnip Head or whatever it was to describe SGT.
A bit lazy and cheap for me just because things haven’t worked out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: chrisf on June 17, 2018, 03:49:53 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.

How do you know that?

Reliable sauces.
You mean something like a Bechamel?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

Maybe some of us of us have been brought up to be less angry towards people who's crime is not to have got a football team promoted.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 03:56:04 PM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

What's he been though? Wow Brian, just wow.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 17, 2018, 03:56:32 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.

How do you know that?

Reliable sauces.
You mean something like a Bechamel?

Levi Roots is itk.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Emmo on June 17, 2018, 04:02:16 PM
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.
I do find it a bit sad how anyone can call a manger of ours who's been through what he has and albeit failing 'fistface'. The anger in some people is staggering.

I have never posted on the site before, although as someone said the other day, I have been lurking around it for some time. I'm a long standing supporter and can remember the bad old days under the "old board" before the "revolution" happened. I was at the meeting in Digbeth Civic Hall when the news was announced that the old board had given in to the pressure and were stepping down to allow others to take over the club. I was also at the final in Rotterdam, our finest hour.
 I can remember how depressing things were when the old board refused to budge and things were just getting worse.
 At the moment things seem to be as bad as they were then, well almost.
 Last week I spoke to someone I know and he mentioned that he was a long standing friend of our acting CEO Luke Organ. He said that Luke Organ is a very well respected figure in financial circles (try not to let that worry you). Despite being a relatively young man (most people are relatively young to me) he has a lot of experience and a reputation for getting things done in the right way. He manages his staff well and is respected by them. Apart from all of this he is also regarded as being a "good bloke".
 Now I'm aware that this does not guarantee a good outcome for our club just because he's reported to be all of these things. For a start off he has to report to other people, some of whom we know nothing about. Our present predicament won't be solved by one person either, no matter how good they are at their job or whether the are a "good bloke", or not.
 However, amidst all the doom and gloom understandably smothering us at the moment I did at take some comfort from this. At least we might have someone in a influential position who actually knows what he's doing.
 Now I don't know Luke Organ and I might be clutching at straws (at times like this you have to clutch at something) but if he is allowed to influence events without too much negative interference we just might avoid the worst.
 We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, will Tony Xia sell the club, will he carry on ?
 Let's just hope we can get a tune out of Mr Organ (sorry for that, perhaps you'll forgive me as a newby). One thing I do know we could do with some justified positivity at the moment.
 Emmo
 Emmo
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 17, 2018, 04:07:32 PM
Welcome Emmo.

My inner Sid James will consume me if you keep writing 'Luke Organ'.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 17, 2018, 04:08:45 PM
We need to pay £11m in transfer fees by the end of June for McCaramac, Chester and Hogan.  I literally have no idea where that cash is going to come from.

How do you know that?

Reliable sauces.
You mean something like a Bechamel?

Levi Roots is itk.

All this overspending will ketchup with us before long.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 17, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Well played sir.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on June 17, 2018, 04:20:20 PM
Great! Sauce puns. Finally something to relish.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 17, 2018, 04:22:45 PM
Great! Sauce puns. Finally something to relish.

It makes me see red.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 17, 2018, 04:37:48 PM
We really are in the brown sauce stuff.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: IFWaters on June 17, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
The Gravy train has hit the buffers.

A lot of our best players are going to have to bid 'Tartar' to us. Perhaps even Dr Tony will bid us "Soy long and thanks for all the memories"
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 17, 2018, 05:22:38 PM
I was surprised we still had HP  on those three
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Rodders on June 17, 2018, 05:32:08 PM
Mayonnasian billionaire get us out of this pickle? Not a Carbonara copy of our current one, mind.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Emmo on June 17, 2018, 05:41:16 PM
Thanks for the welcome SE.
I promise to stop using Mr O's full name in future. From now on I will just refer to him as our Acting CEO (Chief Executive Organ) in the hope that it will prevent you from descending into any Carry On humour.
 Ooh Matron !
 You see you've got me at it now
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: CJ on June 17, 2018, 07:04:55 PM
Only Villa could Picalilli-livered owner who isn't minted
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr-villa on June 17, 2018, 08:01:50 PM
Tartare Tony, its time to go.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 17, 2018, 08:02:37 PM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

Maybe some of us of us have been brought up to be less angry towards people who's crime is not to have got a football team promoted.

This from the person whose rudeness pushed me off this site for a year.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john e on June 17, 2018, 08:40:19 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES




I don’t think we could be further apart in our opinion of Bruce

I curse the day we ever appointed him as our manager and said at the time that nothing good would come of Villa while he’s in charge, and i haven’t changed my mind and just look where we are

how any Aston Villa fan can look at the situation we are in right now which Bruce has been just as culpable as anyone else at the club and say he’s the man to take us forward is for me absolutely mind blowing, staggering I just don’t get it

I don’t know if the next bloke will be any good but the present bloke will take us on the road to nowhere as he’s done so far

imo
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on June 17, 2018, 08:51:51 PM
Clampy, where was all this milk of human kindness your upbringing endowed you with when you attacked me viciously on this forum for saying I had had a long journey home after a game?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 09:02:48 PM
Clampy, where was all this milk of human kindness your upbringing endowed you with when you attacked me viciously on this forum for saying I had had a long journey home after a game?

Attacked you viciously? Less of the exaggeration Brian.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 09:50:27 PM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

Maybe some of us of us have been brought up to be less angry towards people who's crime is not to have got a football team promoted.

This from the person whose rudeness pushed me off this site for a year.

Rudness or just difference of opinion?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 17, 2018, 09:51:36 PM
Seems to be a pattern forming here.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 17, 2018, 09:52:39 PM
Yes, there is.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: TheMalandro on June 17, 2018, 10:30:25 PM
Yes, there is.

Sure is.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wozwebs on June 17, 2018, 11:15:25 PM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 18, 2018, 08:30:46 AM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

If that is true then we are an utter shambles. The admin rumours may be true.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Allan C on June 18, 2018, 08:58:17 AM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.
Quite so, it’s a problem with the modern era I guess. I don’t want to know anything about Bruce’s private life or any other person at the club because it’s irrelevant. Don’t think for a second though that our sympathy and kind feelings will matter one iota to him if he gets a better offer. He’ll be gone like a shot
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mike on June 18, 2018, 09:27:49 AM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

Maybe some of us of us have been brought up to be less angry towards people who's crime is not to have got a football team promoted.

This from the person whose rudeness pushed me off this site for a year.

Rudness or just difference of opinion?

Snide childish name calling.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 18, 2018, 09:31:17 AM
"What he has been through"?   The loss of a child is going through it.  Dalian's family went through it.  And Ugo's family.  And Justin Fashanu's. And William and Harry.  Like Malandro says. Bruce's private, personal life is very sad but it is irrelevant.

Maybe some of us of us have been brought up to be less angry towards people who's crime is not to have got a football team promoted.

This from the person whose rudeness pushed me off this site for a year.

Rudness or just difference of opinion?

Snide childish name calling.

Can you point out where I've called you names because I don't think I have.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 18, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
You constantly snide, good to see you being called out at last.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Three Spires Villa on June 18, 2018, 10:39:26 AM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

If that is true then we are an utter shambles. The admin rumours may be true.

Does anyone know how true this is. I havent seen anything reported on this, so Im thinking its not
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 18, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
You constantly snide, good to see you being called out at last.

You have very little room to talk when it comes to name-calling.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wozwebs on June 18, 2018, 10:41:29 AM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

If that is true then we are an utter shambles. The admin rumours may be true.

Does anyone know how true this is. I havent seen anything reported on this, so Im thinking its not

Give the Evening Mail time, they'll create a story from most Villa related tweets
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Des Little on June 18, 2018, 10:42:21 AM
Have we had the badge split in half yet? 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Legion on June 18, 2018, 10:42:22 AM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

If that is true then we are an utter shambles. The admin rumours may be true.

Does anyone know how true this is. I havent seen anything reported on this, so Im thinking its not

1. It's on Twatter
2. It was 'told', not experienced directly
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 18, 2018, 10:46:01 AM
Have we had the badge split in half yet? 

Last week. Do keep up.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 18, 2018, 10:48:33 AM
If it was true, then surely more people would have took to social media to complain rather than just one person who wasn't even there?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 18, 2018, 10:50:18 AM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

File under #shitstirringbollox

Villa outsource the catering to Compass. Unless Compass have stopped paying suppliers etc, then it’s business as usual.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Des Little on June 18, 2018, 11:10:07 AM
Have we had the badge split in half yet? 

Last week. Do keep up.

Sorry - I'm hiding under my bed until it's all over.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: algy on June 18, 2018, 12:25:06 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES
Couldn't agree more.  Not for one minute going to say I'm a Steve Bruce fan, because I'm really not.  But if we're struggling to pay HMRC, then paying off the manager and then paying out more money to get a new one is ridiculous.  Bruce has done an alright job - Villa are hardly in freefall.  A new manager would be nice, but it's really low down on the list of priorities (or at least should be).

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Des Little on June 18, 2018, 12:27:38 PM
I have to say I'm way more worried about the club dissolving than who the manager is.  In fact, if Bruce had to go in order to cut costs, I'd promote Agnew to manage the team this season. 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VinnieChase84 on June 18, 2018, 12:45:16 PM
Brum mail now running an article to say Xia is struggle to save us. Next 10 days crucial. Keeps in line with the admin news of 28th/29th that a few posters have discussed.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 18, 2018, 01:05:00 PM


I genuinely cannot believe people are still going on about needing a new manager as the club potentially turns to dust

FFS. Get your priorities in order

In what world can we, Aston Villa circa summer 2018 afford to pay off another manager and his staff (never mind finding the money to then appoint a whole new set) when we're frantically scraping around down the proverbial back of the settee looking for coppers to fill the piggy bank ?

What on earth are you people thinking of .. JFC

WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES



I don’t think we could be further apart in our opinion of Bruce

I curse the day we ever appointed him as our manager and said at the time that nothing good would come of Villa while he’s in charge, and i haven’t changed my mind and just look where we are

how any Aston Villa fan can look at the situation we are in right now which Bruce has been just as culpable as anyone else at the club and say he’s the man to take us forward is for me absolutely mind blowing, staggering I just don’t get it

I don’t know if the next bloke will be any good but the present bloke will take us on the road to nowhere as he’s done so far



Where in that rant did i even mention Bruce being the man to take us forward ???


Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 18, 2018, 01:12:05 PM
Seen on twitter just:

Quote
I've just been told the Father's day tour at Villa park that had 135 booked guests went ahead today but the meal in the 82 lounge was cancelled due to Villa not paying the food suppliers and only having enough for 50 people!!! @Dr_TonyXia explain that one!!! #avfc #Embarrassing

File under #shitstirringbollox

Villa outsource the catering to Compass. Unless Compass have stopped paying suppliers etc, then it’s business as usual.

It can't have been a nose making this up as there are too many big numbers involved.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villasjf on June 20, 2018, 10:13:20 AM
Chief scout and fitness coach have gone. How is Micah going to cope without the latter. Ah Bruce likes him around the place as a court jester and a bloody dear one.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: villabear on June 20, 2018, 12:53:38 PM
The silence is deafening from the club. What a shoddy bloody state we're in.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: jwarry on June 20, 2018, 02:08:24 PM
The silence is deafening from the club. What a shoddy bloody state we're in.

I'm sure we will hear plenty next week when the next HMRC and pay bills are due......
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 20, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
The silence is deafening from the club. What a shoddy bloody state we're in.

Villa fans = mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed on BS!  >:(
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 20, 2018, 09:15:01 PM
What is BS?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on June 20, 2018, 09:16:18 PM
Brussel Sprouts, everyone hated being fed them.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Bad English on June 20, 2018, 09:22:42 PM
Ha! My point is why do people have to imitate the puritanism of the USA? It's BULLSHIT, not BS. Say it loud, Bull SHIT! Don't be scared! Who the fuck uses BS?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2018, 09:36:30 PM
BE is a bit upset.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Des Little on June 20, 2018, 10:42:49 PM
Surely that’s BEBU?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 21, 2018, 09:08:48 AM
Ha! My point is why do people have to imitate the puritanism of the USA? It's BULLSHIT, not BS. Say it loud, Bull SHIT! Don't be scared! Who the fuck uses BS?

I know BS is an Americanism, but I thought it would be quicker to type. Still doesn't alter the fact that we're being kept in the dark...and fed on bullshit!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: andyh on June 21, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
We ain’t being fed on anything other than silence.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 21, 2018, 12:12:14 PM
I know, I'm praying for the announcement of a Michael Knighton / Christian Gross double act, just something to lift the boredom.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 21, 2018, 12:54:20 PM
I know, I'm praying for the announcement of a Michael Knighton / Christian Gross double act, just something to lift the boredom.

I think I'd rather stay bored!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: VILLA MOLE on June 21, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
We ain’t being fed on anything other than silence.




Yes maybe Tony could give us one of his cryptic message about the finances keep it simple £0  - £50,000.000 = $ell up - 12 points
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 21, 2018, 01:30:20 PM
his pay as you go phone's all out of credit
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: The Edge on June 21, 2018, 02:01:47 PM
The silence is deafening from the club. What a shoddy bloody state we're in.
Alabama? 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Clampy on June 21, 2018, 02:10:55 PM
The silence is deafening from the club. What a shoddy bloody state we're in.
Alabama? 

The way we gambled last year, i'd say Nevada.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john e on June 21, 2018, 03:32:42 PM
I think the whole things up in the air at the club

I don't think they can or could anouce anything because nobody knows anything
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2018, 11:18:15 PM
The Howard Hodgson angle is very worrying as it shows Xia has no real plan. Sad  situation.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 29, 2018, 11:10:33 AM
so is it impossible to envisage Hairy Hands having one?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on June 29, 2018, 12:10:48 PM
The Howard Hodgson angle is very worrying as it shows Xia has no real plan. Sad  situation.

Does this bloke actually have any 'real' money or is this just some sort of vanity thing ?

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave shelley on June 29, 2018, 01:03:11 PM
The Howard Hodgson angle is very worrying as it shows Xia has no real plan. Sad  situation.

Does this bloke actually have any 'real' money or is this just some sort of vanity thing ?

That's a question you could ask of the majority of football club owners here.


Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on June 29, 2018, 04:06:29 PM
So, we have reached the 29th and the club is still here. I don't think Xia is selling up, but I also don't believe that he is behaving like a man of means. Hopefully Bruce will have an epiphany over the summer and play on the front foot come August.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: AV82EC on June 29, 2018, 04:27:51 PM
So, we have reached the 29th and the club is still here. I don't think Xia is selling up, but I also don't believe that he is behaving like a man of means. Hopefully Bruce will have an epiphany over the summer and play on the front foot come August.

Does he know what the front foot is? He’s never done it before so quite why you think he’s going to start now....
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on June 29, 2018, 04:35:47 PM
So, we have reached the 29th and the club is still here. I don't think Xia is selling up, but I also don't believe that he is behaving like a man of means. Hopefully Bruce will have an epiphany over the summer and play on the front foot come August.

Does he know what the front foot is? He’s never done it before so quite why you think he’s going to start now....

He has, occasionally, and that's what was so frustrating last season. When we went forward and attacked we were the best team in the league, and that includes Barcahampton. The key word there, though, is 'occasionally'.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on June 29, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
It's the biggest job he'll ever have and he has said as much. So, he has to go for it this season. If he doesn't have a transfer budget, he'll have to throw in the kids and, in that way, maybe his hand will be forced. Much as it was with Keinan. He may, actually happen upon a winning formula despite himself!
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: curiousorange on June 29, 2018, 08:44:52 PM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Richard E on June 29, 2018, 08:47:59 PM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.

Yeah but the source is James Nursey so they can be filed under ‘bollocks.’
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on June 29, 2018, 08:52:03 PM
Not necessarily - Tone isn't going to prioritize adding to the wage bill with FFP is he? We need to clear the decks first and foremost of all the big earners.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on June 29, 2018, 09:38:40 PM
We made June's PAYE payment without a peep. Get in!!!  (It's the new "Grealish puts it on a plate for Grabbing, it's there!")
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2018, 02:27:51 PM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.
Well that should be a known fact. If the club is financially constrained it can not enter into new costly contracts with players even if there is no fee involved. Some minuscule brain cell can figure that out.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: GarTomas on June 30, 2018, 04:48:46 PM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.
Well that should be a known fact. If the club is financially constrained it can not enter into new costly contracts with players even if there is no fee involved. Some minuscule brain cell can figure that out.

Which makes the new contract for Hutton even more baffling (even when seen through the eyes of retaining a player and reducing the wage bill)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 30, 2018, 06:53:27 PM
i wonder who is actually running the club at the moment.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ronshirt on June 30, 2018, 07:02:39 PM
The Gnasher. Peel off the prosthetics and make up and there he'll be. The clue is the shoes. The man's an evil genius.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: sickbeggar on July 01, 2018, 11:43:21 AM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.
Well that should be a known fact. If the club is financially constrained it can not enter into new costly contracts with players even if there is no fee involved. Some minuscule brain cell can figure that out.

Which makes the new contract for Hutton even more baffling (even when seen through the eyes of retaining a player and reducing the wage bill)



I don't know if its that baffling really. you have a set bill of outgoing wages., so you re-sign the player on less so that brings the wage bill down. He can play in more than one position so allows you to get rid of others in theory. He's costing you nothing in transfer and signing-on fees. If you take the view that someone has to play there next season then it seem very sensible financially.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on July 02, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
Anything from nobhead today anywhere or are they all still in hiding, occasionally writing a sentence of gobbledeegook on twitter?

Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Eiresvillan on July 02, 2018, 02:43:24 PM
Reports on Twitter that we can't even afford free transfers. How low have we etc.
Well that should be a known fact. If the club is financially constrained it can not enter into new costly contracts with players even if there is no fee involved. Some minuscule brain cell can figure that out.

Which makes the new contract for Hutton even more baffling (even when seen through the eyes of retaining a player and reducing the wage bill)



I don't know if its that baffling really. you have a set bill of outgoing wages., so you re-sign the player on less so that brings the wage bill down. He can play in more than one position so allows you to get rid of others in theory. He's costing you nothing in transfer and signing-on fees. If you take the view that someone has to play there next season then it seem very sensible financially.

We have players that can play there that are already on the books. When is young Bree going to get his chance?

Saving money is saving money and getting rid of the old timers gives us more chance of keeping some of our better players(like Chester/Grealish).
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on July 02, 2018, 03:48:40 PM
Anything from nobhead today anywhere or are they all still in hiding, occasionally writing a sentence of gobbledeegook on twitter?



Is there any need for the teenage theatrics? Every post it's see how many pointless insults you can pack in.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on July 02, 2018, 04:08:50 PM
Any of your famous predictions for the coming season?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on July 02, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
Any of your famous predictions for the coming season?

Famous? You flatter me.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 02, 2018, 06:09:36 PM
i wonder who is actually running the club at the moment.

Nobody seems to know. And it is worrying me enormously.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 02, 2018, 06:50:11 PM
I would imagine Round and doesn’t Sir Brian have some sort of senior advisory role? I would hope at minimum those two are involved in some significant capacity.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on July 02, 2018, 08:07:04 PM
With the news he's turned down serious investment from 2 parties out of hand I think it's becoming apparent why Wyness was compelled to act. He belligerently clinging onto something he can't afford while the club is in a state of chaos. No summer plan is in place, no transfer budget, how in the squad. Not good at all. Someone asked what type of tool he is elsewhere, i can think of a few that need to be used on him at the moment.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Villafirst on July 02, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
Shambolic from Xia. What a way to treat 19-20,000 Season ticket holders. He needs to sell-up fast, a complete incompetent fraud. He can't even communicate his thoughts coherently to the fanbase. The "board" is a joke....
 
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ROBBO on July 02, 2018, 09:55:15 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tony is so far down the pan that a part investor is no longer adequate. He wants to sell the lot is my gut feeling but wants to get back most of what he's spent.
Good luck with that Tony.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Mossie Hennebry on July 03, 2018, 01:02:16 AM
The bookies rarely get things wrong. Worryingly, we are only 7/1 to be relegated. For reference, Stoke are 66/1, WBA 40/1 and Boro 50/1.

(We are also 9/2 to be promoted and 14/1 to win the championship)

It's not looking bright, is it?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 03, 2018, 01:08:18 AM
The bookies rarely get things wrong.

I take it you've missed the World Cup?
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 03, 2018, 01:10:56 AM
Or the fact odds are based on money going on rather than what bookies think.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on July 03, 2018, 07:00:58 AM
As some prescient soul said on here a few weeks ago, only we seem capable of attracting successive billionaires who make Gerald Ratner look a  business mastermind
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Ads on July 03, 2018, 07:09:57 AM
The bookies rarely get things wrong.

I take it you've missed the World Cup?

Glad the bookies had it right last season, as we were promoted automatically with Boro.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: ozzjim on July 04, 2018, 06:07:29 AM
With Johnstone going to Albion I started to have a think about how many sides have had more kicks in the nads than Villa in the last ten years. Not many I don't reckon.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 04, 2018, 08:14:29 AM
With Johnstone going to Albion I started to have a think about how many sides have had more kicks in the nads than Villa in the last ten years. Not many I don't reckon.

There are dozens. Ultimately we've dropped one division - others have had it far worse.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on July 04, 2018, 08:40:49 AM
losing Johnstone to Albion isn't a kick in the balls in the overall scheme of things, especially for £6.5m
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john e on July 04, 2018, 06:26:07 PM
losing Johnstone to Albion isn't a kick in the balls in the overall scheme of things, especially for £6.5m

it is for Johnstone
he's got to play for that tossbasketing outfit in front of the biggest most piss poorest twatish fans on Gods earth
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2018, 07:46:57 PM
With Johnstone going to Albion I started to have a think about how many sides have had more kicks in the nads than Villa in the last ten years. Not many I don't reckon.

There are dozens. Ultimately we've dropped one division - others have had it far worse.

I remember how people would take the piss out of the chicken farmers at Blackburn. Trust us to find somebody just as bad.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: thick_mike on July 04, 2018, 08:05:32 PM
With Johnstone going to Albion I started to have a think about how many sides have had more kicks in the nads than Villa in the last ten years. Not many I don't reckon.

There are dozens. Ultimately we've dropped one division - others have had it far worse.

E.g. Sunderland
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 04, 2018, 08:09:08 PM
Ryton.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 04, 2018, 08:16:43 PM
With Johnstone going to Albion I started to have a think about how many sides have had more kicks in the nads than Villa in the last ten years. Not many I don't reckon.

There are dozens. Ultimately we've dropped one division - others have had it far worse.

I remember how people would take the piss out of the chicken farmers at Blackburn. Trust us to find somebody just as bad.

Just as bad? The Venkys were fairly transparent in terms of their wealth, Xia on the other hand for all we know is hiding in his bedroom at his Moms house.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: mr underhill on July 04, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
someday, maybe, I'll remember to forget
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: brian green on July 04, 2018, 08:46:00 PM
Purveyors of chicken?
Or 
Purveyor of monosodium glutamate?

Tough call.

Can we have the package holiday operator back please.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: wittonwarrior on July 04, 2018, 09:05:27 PM
This week alone we have had to contend with Johnstone going to the hairy bikers, the away scheme shambles, no budget for loans and Steve rounds dismissal.  We are beginning to sound and feel like small heath
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: eamonn on July 04, 2018, 09:11:43 PM
Still, the lads look well-fit in the back to school pics on Pravda.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: john e on July 04, 2018, 09:20:14 PM
and we will be able to save no end of money with the match day squad being able to travel in a 17 seater mini bus to all away matches
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: aj2k77 on July 04, 2018, 10:01:19 PM
With Steve Bruce as the driver.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Fred Crump on July 27, 2018, 12:00:02 AM
Can we now please officially fill in the Pit, Tarmac over it , and pretend it never existed?  :)
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: frank black on July 27, 2018, 07:45:37 AM
Not yet Fred, wait until the transfer window shuts.
Title: Re: The Pit of Misery (All mess in here)
Post by: Simon Page on July 27, 2018, 11:05:12 AM
Or keep it open until we hate our latest billionaires.
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