Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2018, 10:58:53 PM
-
What is it then?
We know this team can go toe to toe in a physical scrap as we've shown many times this season and tbh even though it was tense due to the scoreline I thought we were very comfortable over the two games.
Boro are so pedestrain and slow at knocking the ball across the pitch, it played nicely into our hands.
Fulham is completely different prospect. They have imo the best central midfield axis in the league in McDonald-Johansen-Cairney and a good striker now in Mitrovic upfront so we're going to have to find ways to disrupt that. I do think their defence can be got at though as SHA showed and to a lesser extent Derby first leg.
Get the feeling SB will stick with an unchanged team unless AEM is fit. Is that our best team to beat that specific opponent? I feel we will need more energy and composure in central midfield as we can't be just hacking the ball away from our box all the time. We will struggle to get it back as much as we did in the last 180 minutes.
Might not have seemed like it but to me the two legged semi was the easy part. This is very much the hard part given what is at stake and the opposition.
-
Set pieces and keep it tight, no fucking about.
1-0, job done.
-
Score more than them.
-
We have to keep the ball, be disciplined and attack them. They have too many weapons and if we are sloppy and let them play they'll do us
-
Let them worry about the plan to beat us. This isn't Craven Cottage, our star players are all available.
Let them enjoy their big day out while we enjoy promotion.
-
Do what we did on 21/10/2017
-
Do what we did on 21/10/2017
Bit similar to us going there without Adomah and Jack.
Just looked at their team that day and Cairney only came on as 60th minute sub (he missed start of season injured) and they obviously didn't have Mitrovic that day. Front three was Fonte-Kamara-Ayite so lot different to what they're putting out now. Sessegnon also played as a left back that day.
-
They're not that special away from their little stadium. Even Blues beat them scoring 3 goals. We've beaten them at home already. Experience at Wembley will be key - they have none.
-
Look so shot shy in the run up to the game that they think it will be a piece of piss.
Then muller them with Total Football, Hourihane scoring two and Hogan nabbing a hat-trick.
-
Set Hutton on Sessegnon who's even more dangerous than Traore. He's a big part of Fulham's attack and have to keep Mitrovic quiet. That's John Terry's task.
-
Tell the Tarquins that the game is on the Sunday and clappers are banned.
-
Score first
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
-
How tall is their left-back?
Unless he's significantly shorter than Middlesbrough's, part of the plan should be for Johnstone to not send every single goal-kick and clearance straight to him to gift possession like tonight*.
*my only real complaint about a thoroughly comfortable performance all round.
-
Play two up front. Grabban and Kodja. Let them worry about us. We can’t sit and hold in a cup final.
-
Wolves were the next Barca and we hammered them 4-1 , they were champs, fuck the fuckers
-
I think the plan will be exactly the same as it has been over these two legs - stay solid and try and hit them on the break. It's Bruce's approach and I would expect the same team unless Elmohamady is fit and Whelan replaces Jedinak.
-
Score 1 concede 0
Next
-
Score 1 concede 0
Next
Boring boring Arsenal?
-
I think the plan will be exactly the same as it has been over these two legs - stay solid and try and hit them on the break. It's Bruce's approach and I would expect the same team unless Elmohamady is fit and Whelan replaces Jedinak.
Agree, I don’t think Bruce knows any other way to play, it’s attriitiona, it’s not very pretty and it is mostly effective.
I thought that we did start pressing higher up the pitch in the second half last night.
I don’t think we can afford to give Fulham the same time and space though.
-
I think we'll just play better against Fulham, as we did against Wolves. Fulham's threat comes from wide, so employ Hutton to shackle Sessegnon and someone else to do the same to Fredericks(?)
I think with Jedinak in front of the defence, Grealish being Grealish, and Grabban/Kodjia getting more involved, we'll be more than a match for Fulham.
Mitrovic is their biggest danger for me. But with our defence, I feel confident.
We'll be ok.
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
-
Score more than them.
That's a silly plan.
We need to concede less than them.
-
Derby showed lots of ways to play them in the first leg
Get men behind the ball, in a narrow shape, and get super tight to mitrovic
Break with really direct running and pace from midfield. For me that means Onomah - who was great at villa park against them - rather than hourihane
Whelan not Jedinak because the threat is so different
Get crosses onto the back stick where we can beat their fullbacks in the air. Snodgrass and possibly Grabban wide
Having said all of that, the first goal is going to be critical. If they get it, I really can see us struggling. If we get it, we’ve seen how effective we can be
-
GF > GA
-
GF > GA
Are those netball positions?
-
In not so worried about mitrovic. He's a flat track bully who looks good against championship centre backs. We don’t have championship centre backs though.
-
We just went from underdogs to favourites in the last few minutes. Don't suppose some Fulham type has got injured or something?
-
GF > GA
Are those netball positions?
Goals for greater than Goals against.
sounds like a plan.
-
We just went from underdogs to favourites in the last few minutes. Don't suppose some Fulham type has got injured or something?
Would it not be the bookies just opening for business, and updating their odds now we're in the final and not just the semis? Also presumably taking a few quid on Villa to win as well.
-
The latter especially I reckon
-
GF > GA
Are those netball positions?
GS > GA would be!
-
I was more concerned about getting past Boro over 2 games than playing Fulham at Wembley in a one off. There's no way we'll be as negative as we were last night against them.
-
We just went from underdogs to favourites in the last few minutes. Don't suppose some Fulham type has got injured or something?
Would it not be the bookies just opening for business, and updating their odds now we're in the final and not just the semis? Also presumably taking a few quid on Villa to win as well.
They only had the two teams listed so it wasn't a case of they hadn't updated their odds after the semis. Fulham went from 6/4 on to 5/4 against in the space of thirty seconds (I have bet on them as a cover bet). They are back to odds-on again now so I did well to bet when I did.
Odds to lift the trophy not to win after 90 minutes, btw.
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
They never play well at Villa Park for whatever reason, just 1 win in last 14 visits stretching back to 2001.
-
My plan would be to kick lumps out of them and intimidate them from the kick off. In fact, I'd probably start in the tunnel on the way out.
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
They never play well at Villa Park for whatever reason, just 1 win in last 14 visits stretching back to 2001.
Guess who was in charge the last time they best us at home....
-
gotta be 4th time lucky this time - even Holland would say as much in comparison. I think the mass Villa support and our prestige will see us thru, but as an edge get Alan Hutton to mark that Sessignon player. Probably looking at a Tranmere 94 style win tbh.
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
They never play well at Villa Park for whatever reason, just 1 win in last 14 visits stretching back to 2001.
Guess who was in charge the last time they best us at home....
The scorer of Fulham's first goal will amuse you aswell, was a great strike.
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
They never play well at Villa Park for whatever reason, just 1 win in last 14 visits stretching back to 2001.
Guess who was in charge the last time they best us at home....
The scorer of Fulham's first goal will amuse you aswell, was a great strike.
Was that the Kieron Richardson one?
-
From what I remember from the October game Fulham were like Jaap Stam's Reading - lots of tippy-tappy passing round the back in their own half with no urgency, even when they were a goal down. They're a different beast now though.
They looked vulnerable at the back against Derby so if Snod and Albert are in top form and Lewis/Kodj can convert their crosses then we have a chance. Hopefully we'll give it a go for them to be in forward enough positions to do so.
Fulham were like that over both previous home games
They never play well at Villa Park for whatever reason, just 1 win in last 14 visits stretching back to 2001.
Guess who was in charge the last time they best us at home....
The scorer of Fulham's first goal will amuse you aswell, was a great strike.
Was that the Kieron Richardson one?
Yes, think he smashed it in on the volley from 20 yards out. Thought it was the winner but Rodallega scored it. To make things more surreal Grant Holt scored his one villa goal that day.
-
The plan?
Get in to 'em....
-
My plan would be to kick lumps out of them and intimidate them from the kick off. In fact, I'd probably start in the tunnel on the way out.
do a crazy gang on em and act like lunatics in the tunnel. fulham aint no culture club.
-
Turn up and make a lot of noise
-
Play with the same intensity that we had when we beat Bristol City and Wolves.
-
My plan would be to kick lumps out of them and intimidate them from the kick off. In fact, I'd probably start in the tunnel on the way out.
Maybe ram their coach in the car park?
-
-
1) Tell ISIS that the Fulham players were all saying rude things about the Koran.
2) Poison their lasagna the night before the game.
3) Pay one of their fringe players a bomb load to injure Mitrovic and Sessegnon in training.
4) Change all the directions signs on the route from Fulham to Wembley so their team fail to turn up on time and we win by a walkover.
5) Buy Wembley and refuse to allow their players entry on the day of the match.
6) Stage a coup, take over the legislature and pass new laws barring Fulham from competing in the final.
-
Okay so a main theme is the control the centre of the pitch which ideally would be ball retention or pressing but it could be simply by keeping compact
.
Their full backs and wide players can be forceful but stopping balls behind and only allowing crosses from deep would reduce impact of mitrovic in the air.
Most importantly and one thing we can be confident on is the solid defensive unit and this also needs to be case all through team.
A compact defence will force Fulham into frustration and lack of space will allow little in way of chances to play free flowing football.
The balance of the villa team in defending and attacking could perhaps be dictated by the counter and pressing(something Derby did to great effect in first leg semi).
The lack of ball retention by villa versus Fulham attitude and style is one fear and the most concern. However its also a bonus and played out correctly then tactically efficiency will be offering up attacks and goal scoring chances for villa more so than Fulham despite the expected ball dominance.
Villa are boss at headed shots and shots assisted from set plays and crosses will be potential for goals.
Playing on the full backs and also center half odoi who is small as well as the lack of height and physicality of some Fulham players joy can be had.
At times the central midfield and passing of Grealish with or without space as he's most adapt in both situations will allow the defensive block of villa to remain but as a offensive move the villa team will use Grealish Snodgrass and Adomah as advancing counter players.
Fulham full-back like to press on and Cairney in the middle with Mcdonald and Johansen acting as enforcers want to control the match.
In a lot of these situations they may look to switch play or find space out wide or in between midfield. Villa dropping deep or press midfield and keeping close will nullify this.
If we start to see mitrovic coming towards the ball and staying out of area then the discipline must kept to and Midfielder runners going past.
Key is discipline. Villa have pace power strategy and solidarity as well as key experience.
Over awed Fulham would crumble. Any meek play by villa and losing shape and organise can be punished by them as they are efficient in this.
Conversely Bruce keeping a well drilled team and with the individual quality we have knows that there's a balance of attacking flair, though generally lacking, sheer robust offense, and creation of space in final third to create and score.
Villa will be moving defence to attack either as swift counter (against breaking up Fulham build up) or longer direct balls moving quickly and a controlled measure play moving ball and creating openings (long range shots, corners winning free kicks)
Positives
The organisation. The single most impressive factor in Bruce and coaching team is how he sets up to get the job done.
The players are drilled and know what is expected of them. The tracking back by wide players Albert and snoddy is basically a discipline issue. These 2 know how to defend as well as attack. It may not be their strength but they are both aware they have yo do it and do so.
Jedinak holding.
Again confident here that he plays the role so effectively. Likely to see him stop high balls or close space by positioning (no dynamic pace) and experience.
Grealish.
The player who can't be stopped or so we hope / believe.
It's not as simple as stopping him nor is it as simple as give him the ball. In respect to Fulham.
However it can be simplified as much as give him ball at the right times and not only will he bring up the pitch when deep, he'll weight the pass, look for openings and win fouls gaining us continued advantages.
The central defence.
Magnificent. Yes Chester has occasional lapse on the ball as does JT in passing out ( rarely) however these 2 are the crux and solid. Player of match performances expected and fittingly either could score in opposition box with a strong presence during set plays.
Concerns
(which I won't be alone with) are
Isolation of Grabban or who plays ever central striker
Grabban /striker not pressing or alone in pressing
Grealish Snodgrass being marked out of match and not finding required space or enough of ball to bring others in to play and create opportunities .
Midfield moving forward
Defence unnecessary being too deep though in no way a high line is necessary due to pace of some Fulham players and their running off ball we know mitrovic is a centre forward who is not pacey but is powerful and is a box but mixed at hold up play.
His temperment can be suspect but he does have goal scoring ability
Organisation.
Anyway I wrote my thoughts and how see things.
Personally I have mixture of excitement and expectation before yesterday I only saw villa going up now reality is dawning that on the day if not played right then devastatingly promotion is not secured and I would be very upset to be honest.
There's a number of reasons and we will all have them too as to why villa in top league would be beneficial.
However having read with interest would rather win a cup or promotion discussion then say we look back in 12 months after a difficult Prem season then reality has sunk in
I'm firmly of the belief villa are a club looking to progress and resources would allow us to be competitive and tradition seems to dictate we are a Prem team.
I so want this to be sooner rather than later.
I see it like a West ham 2012 when they were the team that was expected to go up, the big club, and they did within the play offs.
All the expectations make it such an important match and Fulham who are a very decent club and team will be cast as the smaller club and how they play lovely football but it's villa who need the play off win will add to general expectation.
And I not posting now till after the final.(relief to some I imagine)
Warm wishes to all the h and v, the villa family and the holtenders in the sky players and support alike.
This club is wonderful and so are us who follow who ever we are.
Take care all and let's be positive we ve had enough that other rubbish.
I've enjoyed and intrigued all musings on the discussion nice one one and all.
It's our time now so up the villa.
-
I still think my plan is better.
-
We've beaten the top three in the league this season - including Fulham- so shouldn't be cowed at all.
We have the personnel to find a way, and should have the big-game experience (but then I thought that pre QPR at home and we fluffed our lines).
Wem ber ley is a big pitch, but VP isn't exactly small either, so that shouldn't scramble any gameplan we have. From memory, I don't recall too many sides staging comebacks against the odds there in recent years though. They used to say that was because of the heaviness of the pitch years ago, but it has been dug up countless times since then. So first goal yada yada yada.
-
1. Get into them
2. F*ck them off
-
Some decent subplots to the game, Villa Veterans v Fearless Fulham, Grealish v Cairney, Sessegnon v Hutton.
The bigger pitch should in theory suit Fulham, more mobile and comfortable with the ball. But it's going to be a hell of an occasion and we will have to be at our best to win.
-
We've beaten the top three in the league this season - including Fulham- so shouldn't be cowed at all.
We have the personnel to find a way, and should have the big-game experience (but then I thought that pre QPR at home and we fluffed our lines).
Wem ber ley is a big pitch, but VP isn't exactly small either, so that shouldn't scramble any gameplan we have. From memory, I don't recall too many sides staging comebacks against the odds there in recent years though. They used to say that was because of the heaviness of the pitch years ago, but it has been dug up countless times since then. So first goal yada yada yada.
Pitch is same size as Villa Park and meets the UEFA standards whereas Craven Cottage is smaller. It should be like playing at home.
-
1) Tell ISIS that the Fulham players were all saying rude things about the Koran.
2) Poison their lasagna the night before the game.
3) Pay one of their fringe players a bomb load to injure Mitrovic and Sessegnon in training.
4) Change all the directions signs on the route from Fulham to Wembley so their team fail to turn up on time and we win by a walkover.
5) Buy Wembley and refuse to allow their players entry on the day of the match.
6) Stage a coup, take over the legislature and pass new laws barring Fulham from competing in the final.
Point 5 is actually Fulham's plan for us isn't it. That's what Shahid Kahn wanted to buy it.
-
I still think my plan is better.
It's definitely shorter.
-
Okay so a main theme is the control the centre of the pitch which ideally would be ball retention or pressing but it could be simply by keeping compact
.
Their full backs and wide players can be forceful but stopping balls behind and only allowing crosses from deep would reduce impact of mitrovic in the air.
Most importantly and one thing we can be confident on is the solid defensive unit and this also needs to be case all through team.
A compact defence will force Fulham into frustration and lack of space will allow little in way of chances to play free flowing football.
The balance of the villa team in defending and attacking could perhaps be dictated by the counter and pressing(something Derby did to great effect in first leg semi).
The lack of ball retention by villa versus Fulham attitude and style is one fear and the most concern. However its also a bonus and played out correctly then tactically efficiency will be offering up attacks and goal scoring chances for villa more so than Fulham despite the expected ball dominance.
Villa are boss at headed shots and shots assisted from set plays and crosses will be potential for goals.
Playing on the full backs and also center half odoi who is small as well as the lack of height and physicality of some Fulham players joy can be had.
At times the central midfield and passing of Grealish with or without space as he's most adapt in both situations will allow the defensive block of villa to remain but as a offensive move the villa team will use Grealish Snodgrass and Adomah as advancing counter players.
Fulham full-back like to press on and Cairney in the middle with Mcdonald and Johansen acting as enforcers want to control the match.
In a lot of these situations they may look to switch play or find space out wide or in between midfield. Villa dropping deep or press midfield and keeping close will nullify this.
If we start to see mitrovic coming towards the ball and staying out of area then the discipline must kept to and Midfielder runners going past.
Key is discipline. Villa have pace power strategy and solidarity as well as key experience.
Over awed Fulham would crumble. Any meek play by villa and losing shape and organise can be punished by them as they are efficient in this.
Conversely Bruce keeping a well drilled team and with the individual quality we have knows that there's a balance of attacking flair, though generally lacking, sheer robust offense, and creation of space in final third to create and score.
Villa will be moving defence to attack either as swift counter (against breaking up Fulham build up) or longer direct balls moving quickly and a controlled measure play moving ball and creating openings (long range shots, corners winning free kicks)
Positives
The organisation. The single most impressive factor in Bruce and coaching team is how he sets up to get the job done.
The players are drilled and know what is expected of them. The tracking back by wide players Albert and snoddy is basically a discipline issue. These 2 know how to defend as well as attack. It may not be their strength but they are both aware they have yo do it and do so.
Jedinak holding.
Again confident here that he plays the role so effectively. Likely to see him stop high balls or close space by positioning (no dynamic pace) and experience.
Grealish.
The player who can't be stopped or so we hope / believe.
It's not as simple as stopping him nor is it as simple as give him the ball. In respect to Fulham.
However it can be simplified as much as give him ball at the right times and not only will he bring up the pitch when deep, he'll weight the pass, look for openings and win fouls gaining us continued advantages.
The central defence.
Magnificent. Yes Chester has occasional lapse on the ball as does JT in passing out ( rarely) however these 2 are the crux and solid. Player of match performances expected and fittingly either could score in opposition box with a strong presence during set plays.
Concerns
(which I won't be alone with) are
Isolation of Grabban or who plays ever central striker
Grabban /striker not pressing or alone in pressing
Grealish Snodgrass being marked out of match and not finding required space or enough of ball to bring others in to play and create opportunities .
Midfield moving forward
Defence unnecessary being too deep though in no way a high line is necessary due to pace of some Fulham players and their running off ball we know mitrovic is a centre forward who is not pacey but is powerful and is a box but mixed at hold up play.
His temperment can be suspect but he does have goal scoring ability
Organisation.
Anyway I wrote my thoughts and how see things.
Personally I have mixture of excitement and expectation before yesterday I only saw villa going up now reality is dawning that on the day if not played right then devastatingly promotion is not secured and I would be very upset to be honest.
There's a number of reasons and we will all have them too as to why villa in top league would be beneficial.
However having read with interest would rather win a cup or promotion discussion then say we look back in 12 months after a difficult Prem season then reality has sunk in
I'm firmly of the belief villa are a club looking to progress and resources would allow us to be competitive and tradition seems to dictate we are a Prem team.
I so want this to be sooner rather than later.
I see it like a West ham 2012 when they were the team that was expected to go up, the big club, and they did within the play offs.
All the expectations make it such an important match and Fulham who are a very decent club and team will be cast as the smaller club and how they play lovely football but it's villa who need the play off win will add to general expectation.
And I not posting now till after the final.(relief to some I imagine)
Warm wishes to all the h and v, the villa family and the holtenders in the sky players and support alike.
This club is wonderful and so are us who follow who ever we are.
Take care all and let's be positive we ve had enough that other rubbish.
I've enjoyed and intrigued all musings on the discussion nice one one and all.
It's our time now so up the villa.
Can we get that in an infographic or meme?
I am silly and selfish (as I learned yesterday). And also a bit thick.
-
My plan would be to kick lumps out of them and intimidate them from the kick off. In fact, I'd probably start in the tunnel on the way out.
Maybe ram their coach in the car park?
Sounds more suited to Derby.
-
Bloody hell Footyskilz that was epic! ill have to read it again, but you've convinced me.
I would like us to play two attackers, and sacrifice Hourihane. As I see Grabban and Kodj on there own and think whats the point there just there as token figures. but with a player playing closer to them then we would be more of a threat, then I think Onomah certainly got the legs and I think would be more of a link from midfield to lone striker.
you can see why im not a football manager.
-
I'd think about trying to play either Grabban centrally and Kodjia left, or vice versa.
-
Derby and Blose were able to beat them over 90 minutes, so I don't get all this talking them like they're Barca. They have some good players, but then so have we.
We need a good disciplined performance, but that doesn't have to mean overly defensive. Hopefully our players have the talent and experience to deliver on the big stage.
-
Keep the same defence as last night.Jedi was superb but I think Thor with his greater mobility and superior passing would be a better bet v Fulham.I would replace Hourihane with Snodgrass,stronger and beats players more easily,as well at least as good as Hourihane in shooting and set plays.And 2 wide players in Grabban and Adomah and Kodjia as central striker.This should add more firepower and pace.With that in mind I would put RHM on the bench as a potential wide player.
-
The positive thing about playing Fulham is we pretty much know how they will play as they seem to only know one way. I think the way to beat them is to press them high and hopefully we will have the mobility and energy in the team to do this over 90 minutes. We gave it a good go at Craven cottage until Elmo got injured and they capitalised after half time. Playing at Wembley will be different though and I'm hoping our more experienced heads will give us the advantage. First goal is always big but I think whoever gets it here will probably go on and win.
-
I can't see Bruce changing the approach from the two Middlesbrough games really. I think we will allow them to come on to us and try and hit them on the counter attack. We've probably got enough quality to be able to do that and if a Jedinak plays then we will have enough height to cause them problems at set pieces. Won't be pretty, but that doesn't matter now.
-
The bigger pitch should in theory suit Fulham, more mobile and comfortable with the ball. But it's going to be a hell of an occasion and we will have to be at our best to win.
This is a bit of a myth. Their home form is better than their away form.
Craven cottage is 110 yards by 75 yards
Wembley is 115 yards by 75 yards
Villa Park is 115 yards by 75 yards
Our home form is better than Fulham's away form, so if pitch size did come into it, then playing on a pitch that, bar the odd foot here and there, is identical in size to ours conveys an advantage to us.
-
Hope they don’t turn up ;)
-
Hope they don’t turn up ;)
Hope we do, unlike the last visit. UTV
-
The bigger pitch should in theory suit Fulham, more mobile and comfortable with the ball. But it's going to be a hell of an occasion and we will have to be at our best to win.
This is a bit of a myth. Their home form is better than their away form.
Craven cottage is 110 yards by 75 yards
Wembley is 115 yards by 75 yards
Villa Park is 115 yards by 75 yards
Our home form is better than Fulham's away form, so if pitch size did come into it, then playing on a pitch that, bar the odd foot here and there, is identical in size to ours conveys an advantage to us.
It's not a "bit of a myth". The Big Wembley Pitch has been one of the biggest myths in football since 1923, right up there with Fanatical Geordies and Sleeping Giants.
-
Just been reading a bit about this Sessegnon , yes his half decent but his a kid, will he handle the big occasion? my reference point being Gascoigne in the spurs v Forest game, build as the Gascoigne final he certainly did not handle the pressure on that basis the more the media talk this kid up the more expectation, the more pressure. also we have a team as well who can play to a plan and we have flare players too. just saying like.
-
I have a cunning plan...
-
I have a cunning plan...
You do?
-
I have a cunning plan...
You do?
Your going in with that Fulham lot int ya.
-
I can't see Bruce changing the approach from the two Middlesbrough games really. I think we will allow them to come on to us and try and hit them on the counter attack. We've probably got enough quality to be able to do that and if a Jedinak plays then we will have enough height to cause them problems at set pieces. Won't be pretty, but that doesn't matter now.
I really hope you're wrong and instead we go out there and show them just how good we can be. It also plays into Fulham's hands, having us running around chasing the ball only for them to step it up in the second half, watch our players tire and pick us off at will.
It's a tough question for Bruce, what does he believe in more, his players or his tactics?
-
The bigger pitch should in theory suit Fulham, more mobile and comfortable with the ball. But it's going to be a hell of an occasion and we will have to be at our best to win.
This is a bit of a myth. Their home form is better than their away form.
Craven cottage is 110 yards by 75 yards
Wembley is 115 yards by 75 yards
Villa Park is 115 yards by 75 yards
Our home form is better than Fulham's away form, so if pitch size did come into it, then playing on a pitch that, bar the odd foot here and there, is identical in size to ours conveys an advantage to us.
It's not a "bit of a myth". The Big Wembley Pitch has been one of the biggest myths in football since 1923, right up there with Fanatical Geordies and Sleeping Giants.
My theory is the cramps suffered in cup finals and other big games there is down to nerves and tension, something that would be less likely in our experienced side than theirs.
-
I have a cunning plan...
Is that the same as a cunning stunt?
-
My plan would be to kick lumps out of them and intimidate them from the kick off. In fact, I'd probably start in the tunnel on the way out.
do a crazy gang on em and act like lunatics in the tunnel. fulham aint no culture club.
I would have Hutton follow Sessegnon around for a couple of minutes then kick him from Wembley to Wycombe. Yellow card and apology. Yellow issued by Terry of course. Then let's see if the little shit wants to venture out of his own half again. If he doesn't then sign him afterwards!
-
Think there’s a good case for Hutton to play right back to counter Sessegnon, rather than Bree, if Elmo is out
-
I still think my plan is better.
*sniggers*
-
I can't see Bruce changing the approach from the two Middlesbrough games really. I think we will allow them to come on to us and try and hit them on the counter attack. We've probably got enough quality to be able to do that and if a Jedinak plays then we will have enough height to cause them problems at set pieces. Won't be pretty, but that doesn't matter now.
I really hope you're wrong and instead we go out there and show them just how good we can be. It also plays into Fulham's hands, having us running around chasing the ball only for them to step it up in the second half, watch our players tire and pick us off at will.
It's a tough question for Bruce, what does he believe in more, his players or his tactics?
After seeing how we played against Middlesbrough, I can just see us going out and playing the exact same way. I think we will be quite happy to let them play the ball around the back, then try and hit them on the break when possible. I think we'll see exactly the same team unless one of the full-backs is fit and replaces Bree.
-
Do we know who he ref is for the final, yet? Phil Does has retired hasn't he?
-
Be very harsh on Jedinak to drop him for the next game, he’s been fantastic in all our big games.
I would still consider doing it mind
-
Be very harsh on Jedinak to drop him for the next game, he’s been fantastic in all our big games.
I would still consider doing it mind
Drop Hourihane instead....
I don't think SB will do any of that though. Only change I can really see is if AEM makes quick recovery.
-
I can't see Bruce changing the approach from the two Middlesbrough games really. I think we will allow them to come on to us and try and hit them on the counter attack. We've probably got enough quality to be able to do that and if a Jedinak plays then we will have enough height to cause them problems at set pieces. Won't be pretty, but that doesn't matter now.
I really hope you're wrong and instead we go out there and show them just how good we can be. It also plays into Fulham's hands, having us running around chasing the ball only for them to step it up in the second half, watch our players tire and pick us off at will.
It's a tough question for Bruce, what does he believe in more, his players or his tactics?
After seeing how we played against Middlesbrough, I can just see us going out and playing the exact same way. I think we will be quite happy to let them play the ball around the back, then try and hit them on the break when possible. I think we'll see exactly the same team unless one of the full-backs is fit and replaces Bree.
Donald Trump tactics. One size fits all. I hope not.
-
Be very harsh on Jedinak to drop him for the next game, he’s been fantastic in all our big games.
I would still consider doing it mind
Agree. Jedinak is a real asset when we play physical sides, especially those who like to play direct. He is very good in the air and he adds a lot to set pieces, particularly the defensive ones. His distribution can be poor at times, but if anyone ever wanted to see the benefits he can bring to a side then those two games against Middlesbrough were excellent examples (as were his performances against Blues, albeit one was off the bench).
Fulham seem to try and get the ball to Mitrovic quite a lot, so Jedinak might be tasked with looking after him. That said, they try and find his feet which involves more of a shielding job and is something Whelan and Bjarnason could do. I would say those two are better in possession than Jedinak and if we are going there with the intention of playing some football then one of those two might get the nod.
-
One thing I really like about Bjarnason in the defensive central midfield role is he very often looks to play the ball forward, to feet and through the middle. He's also no afraid to pick up the ball and bring it forward himself which immediately creates panic for the opposition and opens up space for our attackers to be more threatening. It's a great alternative to knocking it wide to Snoddy or Albert every time and allows the to get in more advanced positions where they can punish defenders rather than having to beat the full back to get a cross in.
-
I agree Bjarnason does bring a lot more quality to that deep role and can help us keep the ball
I remember against norwich’s fluid midfield that we had huge gaps in front of the defence. I can’t see Bruce taking that risk here
-
Jedinak was excellent against the Wolves at home. They're a much better side than Fulham. He had experience of Play Off finals, he has the quality and should start.
-
Jedinak was excellent against the Wolves at home. They're a much better side than Fulham. He had experience of Play Off finals, he has the quality and should start.
Agree. The Jed is a big game player and has to start.
-
The plan to beat Fulham? It has to be that we score one more goal than they do. There.... EASY😊
-
We comfortably have the better defence but I’d have to concede that in Mitrovic and Sessignon, they have the slightly better attacking threat.
However I fancy us to shade it on the day due to a combination of Bruce’s play off know how and our team’s big game experience.
I’d be interested to know how many of our line up have played in Wembley finals compared to theirs. I think the majority of ours have and that could play a part of the day. Marginal gains and all that.
-
We need leaders on the pitch and Jedi is one, I would consider playing Weelan instead of Hurricane to help screen in front of Mitrovic.
-
Leave the team as it is. If things aren't going our way, we have options off the bench.
-
Jedinak was excellent against the Wolves at home. They're a much better side than Fulham. He had experience of Play Off finals, he has the quality and should start.
Agree. The Jed is a big game player and has to start.
He most certainly is. I remember last year he single-handedly won the World Cup qualifier for Australia scoring a hattrick against Honduras to send them to the finals. I'd forgotten he'd started against Wolves. In the form he's in at the moment it would be very harsh to drop him now.
-
No way can he drop the Jeddi. He got us here !!!! But it is great we have some good options off the bench. And if Bruce decides to go for a pressing game we will need all of them to continue the energy levels. Using the tactics we used against Middlesbrough is a massive gamble. They are a much better attacking team ....
-
They're a good side and obviously a little stronger than us (as the league table and them beating us suggests) - but we took a while to find our strongest team and we've got experienced players who will be up for it.
I'm far from an expert on Fulham but they folded under the pressure v Blues and away at Derby, their best player is 17 and their second best has a history of getting wound up easily. Also, Bruce knows Cairney well so you'd hope he'd know how to stop him.
Grealish and JT have done it at Wembley before.
I fancy us to be honest. Our biggest problem is going to be goals as we're not scoring many. Ipswich is the only game in the past couple of months where we've scored more than 1 and we're missing changes regularly. If Adomah and Grabban can be a bit more clinical then I think we'll do it.
-
Their full backs push right up so we need to hit the space in behind.
And get someone pressing McDonald as their play starts off with him frequently.
-
Plan?
Fuck the fuckers.
-
will be a difficult game to choose as a neutral but all the best AV
would prefer villa to join us in the prem rather than those happy clappers from west lundun and there plastic fans from the US of A
forget about plans it's all about luck on the day in these type of games
-
Plan?
Fuck the fuckers.
This.
FTF 8)
Funny how that has become a thing on here. ;D
-
Take a leaf out of Brentford's book and close them down right from the back. They like to play it out from the back. Keep Jedinak in the side as they don't seem to be the biggest of sides and we might have some advantage at set pieces. They play good football but if we go in with the mentality that we did against Wolves rather than against Middlesbrough, we can win. They have plenty of pace so I am not sure that sitting deep and relying on the breakaways is the best plan. Fuck it, just be better than them on the day!
-
Does anyone now how Blues played against them?
-
Probably like they were scrapping for survival.
-
Does anyone now how Blues played against them?
I’m guessing like a flailing armed drunk in a fight.
-
will be a difficult game to choose as a neutral but all the best AV
would prefer villa to join us in the prem rather than those happy clappers from west lundun and there plastic fans from the US of A
forget about plans it's all about luck on the day in these type of games
Cheers! Congratulations on your promotion - an absolutely amazing achievement. Hats off to all concerned. Good luck next season.
-
Does anyone now how Blues played against them?
I’m guessing like a flailing armed drunk in a fight.
👏🏼
-
the only answer is score more than they do.
-
fecking dingles
anyone see that internet joke going round about Villa and the flares
they are that thick they dont even realise we were there 3 years ago
(http://i67.tinypic.com/r2t0rq.jpg)
-
Going by that 'logic' the last time they were there this was the height of fashion.
(http://superawesomevectors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/fred-flintstone-vector-800x566.jpg)
-
I've seen it all now, fashion tips from the Dingles, a city still stuck in 1973.
-
Dingle in a Tailors
Alroit mate I'd like a 70s suit please"
Tailor says:
"Certainly sir, and would you like a kipper tie?"
Dingle says:
"Thanks mate, 2 sugars" (one for me Hoss)
-
Win the toss, elect to defend the end with our fans in. Their keeper will have the setting sun in his eyes all first half. Tell Adomah/Jack/Snoddy/Bree/Hutton/Conor to swing the ball in at every opportunity, tell Grabban/Davis to attack the near post.
-
fecking dingles
anyone see that internet joke going round about Villa and the flares
they are that thick they dont even realise we were there 3 years ago
(http://i67.tinypic.com/r2t0rq.jpg)
We’ve played there 8 times since the last time they did, and even then they were there for the Sherpa Van Trophy.
Blose, Albion, Walsall, Coventry, Stoke and Port Vale have all played there more recently than Wolves.
-
fecking dingles
anyone see that internet joke going round about Villa and the flares
they are that thick they dont even realise we were there 3 years ago
(http://i67.tinypic.com/r2t0rq.jpg)
To be fair flares & denim were & still are very much in fashion In & around Wolverhampton so you can understand their confusion .
-
Odd joke, so we should've been terrible earlier and got relegated just to play a play off final when we've played in 5 FA cup and league cup finals since Wolves played there in the 80s?
Bizarre.
-
And it was another one of those "we took 50,000" games that conveniently ignores they were averaging less than 10K at the time and the year before they averaged less than 6,000.
-
At the end of the day we want to be playing the singles in the big boys league next year and then they will realise just how far out of their depth they really are. Club and fans alike.
-
At the end of the day we want to be playing the singles in the big boys league next year and then they will realise just how far out of their depth they really are. Club and fans alike.
I reckon that we could do them even if there were two of them.
-
If there is a more uppity bunch of ****** who have got well above themselves for no fucking reason, it’s the fucking dingles.
They have spent too much time listening to don fucking goodman on sky who for some fucking reason thinks they are going to win the legue next year.
They aren’t a bad team, in this league, but they ain’t fucking world beaters and no way will they be challenging the upper echelons of the league next year.
Uppity fucking ******.
-
If there is a more uppity bunch of c***s who have got well above themselves for no fucking reason, it’s the fucking dingles.
They have spent too much time listening to don fucking goodman on sky who for some fucking reason thinks they are going to win the legue next year.
They aren’t a bad team, in this league, but they ain’t fucking world beaters and no way will they be challenging the upper echelons of the league next year.
Uppity fucking c***s.
This season certainly has brought out the worst in elements of their support. Their 'mind the gap' and other such nonsense has been reminiscent of the kind of small-time mentality stuff spouted by the Sandwell and Sty dwellers.
-
Well they have certainly got you lot rattled.
Why not just ignore them?
Fuck 'em
-
Well they have certainly got you lot rattled.
Why not just ignore them?
Fuck 'em
Sorry, who?
-
We tend to stand off teams too much for my liking. The teams who have done well against them, including the great unwashed down the road, have got in their faces and disrupted their style. Under pressure they don’t look too clever. Their weakness is their defense.
-
It’s a good point. Sitting deep like we did against Boro would be suicide, not just because they are more likely to create clear cut chances and convert them, but if they play the game in our half it allows them to take all the pressure off their weakest area.
-
Fulham aren't that great - only two players with Wembley experience. We have so many big game players with exactly that experience. I see a 2-0 win at least. Fulham got beat 3-1 at SHA ffs!
-
Well they have certainly got you lot rattled.
Why not just ignore them?
Fuck 'em
Sorry, who?
That's the spirit old boy!
-
We tend to stand off teams too much for my liking. The teams who have done well against them, including the great unwashed down the road, have got in their faces and disrupted their style. Under pressure they don’t look too clever. Their weakness is their defense.
Think that's my main concern, we've got good midfielders for this level but not really pressing ones. I'd say Bjarni is probably the player in the squad who could do it the best so I'd consider starting him.
If we can't get in the faces of the Fulham trio they will play the ball around us and dominate so giving Sessegnon plenty of chances to run with the ball at our defence.
-
Bjarni in at the expense of Uncle
-
We tend to stand off teams too much for my liking. The teams who have done well against them, including the great unwashed down the road, have got in their faces and disrupted their style. Under pressure they don’t look too clever. Their weakness is their defense.
Think that's my main concern, we've got good midfielders for this level but not really pressing ones. I'd say Bjarni is probably the player in the squad who could do it the best so I'd consider starting him.
If we can't get in the faces of the Fulham trio they will play the ball around us and dominate so giving Sessegnon plenty of chances to run with the ball at our defence.
Hourihane did this brilliantly against Boro last week.
-
If Steve Bruce can produce a game plan like he did against Middlesborough I'll be happy.
-
If Steve Bruce can produce a game plan like he did against Middlesborough I'll be happy.
Much prefer a game plan like the Wolves game
-
I understand why people are suggesting bringing Bjarnason in for this game but, as I see it, there is absolutely no way that he’s not going to start with Jedinak for a game of this pressure and importance. Not a chance.
-
We tend to stand off teams too much for my liking. The teams who have done well against them, including the great unwashed down the road, have got in their faces and disrupted their style. Under pressure they don’t look too clever. Their weakness is their defense.
Think that's my main concern, we've got good midfielders for this level but not really pressing ones. I'd say Bjarni is probably the player in the squad who could do it the best so I'd consider starting him.
If we can't get in the faces of the Fulham trio they will play the ball around us and dominate so giving Sessegnon plenty of chances to run with the ball at our defence.
Hourihane did this brilliantly against Boro last week.
Yes he played well. Just worry a little Boro are very much a pedestrian team so much easier to press them than a Fulham.
We really struggled for an hour to deal with PNE's mobility in midfield for anyone who remembers the game at VP.
-
If Steve Bruce can produce a game plan like he did against Middlesborough I'll be happy.
It’s pretty much always the same game plan, it’s just a matter of how well we play.
-
I understand why people are suggesting bringing Bjarnason in for this game but, as I see it, there is absolutely no way that he’s not going to start with Jedinak for a game of this pressure and importance. Not a chance.
Was thinking more of Jedinak-Bjarni as the combo behind Jack.
Harsh on Hourihane who played well against Boro, think he might struggle more against Fulham though.
-
Don't forget we got a secret weapon in future King William and President of FA. He can instruct the referee to be locked in Tower if we don't get promotion ;)
-
One stat really stands out for me: The lowest scorers in the Championship - SHA beat Fulham 3-1; they bottled it - a victory would've got them promoted automatically.
-
our goals seem to have dried up though in recent weeks. It will be tight I think just like Boro but what wouldn't I give for a win!
-
I understand why people are suggesting bringing Bjarnason in for this game but, as I see it, there is absolutely no way that he’s not going to start with Jedinak for a game of this pressure and importance. Not a chance.
Was thinking more of Jedinak-Bjarni as the combo behind Jack.
Harsh on Hourihane who played well against Boro, think he might struggle more against Fulham though.
hourihane was dross in the game at craven cottage.
no-one covered themselves in glory in the second half (and adomah and grealish were missing) but he was particularly bad.
-
additionally, ryan fredericks at right back was far more dangerous than sessegnon at craven cottage in february.
-
This is how we lined up in Feb, so Grealish hasn't played in either game against them this season. Both he and Adomah were kicked black and blue in the local derby win and missed out, and Fulham had a full strength team out.
Who knows?...
Johnstone
Chester
Hutton
Terry
Elmohamady (45) - Onomah
Tuanzebe
Snodgrass (88) - Davis
Hourihane
Jedinak (67) - Grabban
Bjarnason
Hogan
-
I met a Fulham fan who said they are going to play Kamara on Hutton to free up Sessegnon.
-
I met a Fulham fan who said they are going to play Kamara on Hutton to free up Sessegnon.
Leave a lot of space for Albert and Jack then.
-
This is how we lined up in Feb, so Grealish hasn't played in either game against them this season. Both he and Adomah were kicked black and blue in the local derby win and missed out, and Fulham had a full strength team out.
Who knows?...
Johnstone
Chester
Hutton
Terry
Elmohamady (45) - Onomah
Tuanzebe
Snodgrass (88) - Davis
Hourihane
Jedinak (67) - Grabban
Bjarnason
Hogan
Elmo getting injured is what changed the game.
-
If there is a more uppity bunch of c***s who have got well above themselves for no fucking reason, it’s the fucking dingles.
They have spent too much time listening to don fucking goodman on sky who for some fucking reason thinks they are going to win the legue next year.
They aren’t a bad team, in this league, but they ain’t fucking world beaters and no way will they be challenging the upper echelons of the league next year.
Uppity fucking c***s.
Indeed. I have said more than enough about that lot in H+V.
-
Too many people are getting too nervous about Saturday. We are a long way from being a shoe in for victory. But...
Jack Grealish did not feature in either game against them.
We have a Premier League ref. They won't be any good but will give us free kicks for fun for fouls on Jack and Snoddy. Slightest touch, over they go and free kick. It was a feature of the refereeing against Boro.
They will so be ably assisted by the best ref in the division who is our captain. They are star fuckers at the best of times but "JT back at Wembley for a last hurrah"? Fulham will get fuck all off him.
They bottled it at the Blues in front on an expectant away crowd. Christ only knows what they will make of dealing with 40k of us that is important. They have never played us home or away when it has been important since Sky invented football. They might have a much bigger crowd than normal that want a day out. It won't wash in comparison.
Our lot will strut around Wembley like we belong rather than shitting it about the opposition. Last time we did that we dismantled Leeds.
I cancelled the hotel and am doing it in a very long day. That means that 7 hours on the piss after is required and I can't do it.
We have never lost a match when Woodhall was sat next to me (bar Peterbrough in the cup and he just sat there, it wasn't his actual seat). He is sat by me on Saturday.
A bloke contacted me earlier who has owed me £20 for around 15 years. He is handing it over on Saturday.
Charlie got the highest possible score in his homework.
It is on Rotterdam day.
I have next week off on holiday.
Albert is due a goal and so is McCafu.
And if we lose? Who cares that much? It won't be nice but we will still be in a league that is an actual competition. Where we win more than we lose. The pressure on going up this year is all financial rather than fun.
Stop shitting your trousers. We will be just fine regardless.
They are underestimating just what a job Jack will do Saturday and that will be his real breakout game. We don't shit our pants and concede late goals any more. Our creative players are very different to what went to Craven Cottage in February.
Fuck the fuckers. Let them worry about us.
-
Amen brother, amen.
-
Too many people are getting too nervous about Saturday. We are a long way from being a shoe in for victory. But...
Jack Grealish did not feature in either game against them.
We have a Premier League ref. They won't be any good but will give us free kicks for fun for fouls on Jack and Snoddy. Slightest touch, over they go and free kick. It was a feature of the refereeing against Boro.
They will so be ably assisted by the best ref in the division who is our captain. They are star fuckers at the best of times but "JT back at Wembley for a last hurrah"? Fulham will get fuck all off him.
They bottled it at the Blues in front on an expectant away crowd. Christ only knows what they will make of dealing with 40k of us that is important. They have never played us home or away when it has been important since Sky invented football. They might have a much bigger crowd than normal that want a day out. It won't wash in comparison.
Our lot will strut around Wembley like we belong rather than shitting it about the opposition. Last time we did that we dismantled Leeds.
I cancelled the hotel and am doing it in a very long day. That means that 7 hours on the piss after is required and I can't do it.
We have never lost a match when Woodhall was sat next to me (bar Peterbrough in the cup and he just sat there, it wasn't his actual seat). He is sat by me on Saturday.
A bloke contacted me earlier who has owed me £20 for around 15 years. He is handing it over on Saturday.
Charlie got the highest possible score in his homework.
It is on Rotterdam day.
I have next week off on holiday.
Albert is due a goal and so is McCafu.
And if we lose? Who cares that much? It won't be nice but we will still be in a league that is an actual competition. Where we win more than we lose. The pressure on going up this year is all financial rather than fun.
Stop shitting your trousers. We will be just fine regardless.
They are underestimating just what a job Jack will do Saturday and that will be his real breakout game. We don't shit our pants and concede late goals any more. Our creative players are very different to what went to Craven Cottage in February.
Fuck the fuckers. Let them worry about us.
Now that is more like it. We have the player quality but more importantly I think our lot will want this more.
Bring it on UTV
-
This is how we lined up in Feb, so Grealish hasn't played in either game against them this season. Both he and Adomah were kicked black and blue in the local derby win and missed out, and Fulham had a full strength team out.
Who knows?...
Johnstone
Chester
Hutton
Terry
Elmohamady (45) - Onomah
Tuanzebe
Snodgrass (88) - Davis
Hourihane
Jedinak (67) - Grabban
Bjarnason
Hogan
Interesting, we were pretty defensive that day weren't we!? Think we played Bjarni as a number 10 as we did that v PNE 3 days later and it predictably didn't work.
Worth remembering at the time Grabban was still getting up to speed and we also now have Kodjia as the wildcard option so miles more attacking options than in February.