Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Legion on February 23, 2018, 07:41:02 PM

Title: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Legion on February 23, 2018, 07:41:02 PM
Taken from a post on our FB Page:

Would you stick with the European Cup win under Tony Barton or twist to see what would have happened if Ron Saunders had stayed as manager?
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Legion on February 23, 2018, 07:41:45 PM
Stick.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Ads on February 23, 2018, 07:42:13 PM
Stick.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Richard on February 23, 2018, 07:45:45 PM
Twist as we would have still won the Cup I reckon and Saunders would have kept rebuilding teams and not dragged us down like Bartons successors did.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: sickbeggar on February 23, 2018, 07:46:06 PM
well if he'd stayed and ellis arrived in 82, i can't imagine it would have worked out too good. Stick
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Villan For Life on February 23, 2018, 07:53:46 PM
well if he'd stayed and ellis arrived in 82, i can't imagine it would have worked out too good. Stick

That’s as I see it.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: LeeB on February 23, 2018, 08:15:22 PM
Stick.

You would have to say Ron's best years were behind him, given the results of his next two gigs. Either that or he was on a massive wind up.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on February 23, 2018, 08:24:25 PM
Stick -  Saunders will always be remembered with great fondness by those of us who recall 1981.
Had he have stayed he may have become another O'Leary or MON - good but not great
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 23, 2018, 08:37:11 PM
I have a theory about this. I don't think Saunders was all that bothered about the European Cup. He wanted to win it, but as far as he was concerned he'd achieved his biggest ambition in 1981 and anything else was a bonus. Whether it was this, or falling out with the Bendalls, he lost a bit of his drive and our results, plus his record after, bore this out. 
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Richard E on February 23, 2018, 08:45:21 PM
Stick. However rubbish things might be from time to time, that moment can never be taken away from us and it is far too precious to risk.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Andy Poole on February 23, 2018, 08:57:30 PM
Stick. I was there. Wouldn't swap/gamble/muse or anything else.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 23, 2018, 09:12:03 PM
I wouldn't risk the European Cup (and Super Cup). Definite stick.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: olaftab on February 23, 2018, 09:12:54 PM
Twist. Saunders would have won the European cup and gone onto build a new team to dominate.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: b23 on February 23, 2018, 09:17:57 PM
I went to a Shareholders meeting in the Witton Lane stand, the pre-season summer that he arrived.

When Saunders spoke.

He said he wanted to win the First Division Title.

The Shareholders went wild with excitement !!!

He did it too.

God Bless you Mr Saunders.

Stick. Stick. Stick.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: West Derby Villan on February 24, 2018, 12:02:20 AM
Stick, I was there with dad (RIP) and my two brothers and would swap that for nothing
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Rotterdam on February 24, 2018, 07:12:51 AM
I wouldn't risk the European Cup (and Super Cup). Definite stick.

My thoughts. We will probably never get close again...
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: JD on February 24, 2018, 07:56:25 AM
Stick. We won the European Cup with Tony Barton, the greatest day in our history. Wouldn't change that for anything.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: nigel on February 24, 2018, 08:07:10 AM
I have a theory about this. I don't think Saunders was all that bothered about the European Cup. He wanted to win it, but as far as he was concerned he'd achieved his biggest ambition in 1981 and anything else was a bonus. Whether it was this, or falling out with the Bendalls, he lost a bit of his drive and our results, plus his record after, bore this out.

I ve just finished reading the book 'The Odd Man Out' and it did appear he was falling out with the Bednalls more and more over contract issues.
If I read correctly,  too, a couple of senior players were non to happy and wanted out, Tony Morley being one, but stayed when Ron left.

I'm afraid I don't think we'd have won it had Ron stayed.
I do, however, think we'd have had more years challenging at the top of the league, though.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: CT on February 24, 2018, 12:29:24 PM
I wouldn't risk the European Cup (and Super Cup). Definite stick.

My thoughts. We will probably never get close again...

We won't, ever. Unless the Oil money heads south to us from Manchester.

Definite stick.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 24, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
I have a theory about this. I don't think Saunders was all that bothered about the European Cup. He wanted to win it, but as far as he was concerned he'd achieved his biggest ambition in 1981 and anything else was a bonus. Whether it was this, or falling out with the Bendalls, he lost a bit of his drive and our results, plus his record after, bore this out.

I ve just finished reading the book 'The Odd Man Out' and it did appear he was falling out with the Bednalls more and more over contract issues.
If I read correctly,  too, a couple of senior players were non to happy and wanted out, Tony Morley being one, but stayed when Ron left.

I'm afraid I don't think we'd have won it had Ron stayed.
I do, however, think we'd have had more years challenging at the top of the league, though.

The contract story was in the background, but the catalyst was, apparently, the board (ie Don Bendall) increasingly interfering with his work. "I am paid to manage Villa, not be a puppet or an office boy." I suspect only three men ever knew the real reason - one's dead, one has always resisted attempts to tell the full story so I doubt he will now and the third barely knew how to tie his shoelaces even back then.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: castlefields_villan on February 24, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
I have a theory about this. I don't think Saunders was all that bothered about the European Cup. He wanted to win it, but as far as he was concerned he'd achieved his biggest ambition in 1981 and anything else was a bonus. Whether it was this, or falling out with the Bendalls, he lost a bit of his drive and our results, plus his record after, bore this out.

I'm with Dave on this one, our form shortly before Ron left was worrying and Tony Barton had a bit more than the new manager bounce.

I not only wonder whether we'd have that wonderful night in Rotterdam had Ron not gone, but also whether our perilous league position have got worse.  To finish 11th (which is where I think we finished) the year after being league champions was very respectable alongside winning the European Cup.

Very hard to think what would've happened beyond that though.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: PeterWithesShin on February 24, 2018, 07:33:26 PM
Manchester City in 1938, was the answer to the question a lot were asking before Ron left. Loved Ron but i'd definitely stick with Tony Barton.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Damo70 on February 24, 2018, 07:49:55 PM
For all that he had done before at the club, the season he left, under Saunders we had beaten part timers in the first round and nearly gone out in the second round under him and were sixteenth in the table when he left. Tony Barton steadied the ship and lifted us to safety before taking us through the quarter finals, semis and victory in the final. Sadly at that time we ideally needed someone in charge of the club who's surname was neither Bendall or Ellis.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: LeeB on February 24, 2018, 08:16:12 PM
Were there other options considered before they gave the job to Tony, or at least other candidates mentioned in the press? It's some gig when you think about it, it's not often (especially more back then) that the job at the Champions comes up, with them in the 1/4 finals of the big cup.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 24, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
Were there other options considered before they gave the job to Tony, or at least other candidates mentioned in the press? It's some gig when you think about it, it's not often (especially more back then) that the job at the Champions comes up, with them in the 1/4 finals of the big cup.

Tony got the acting manager's job because he was there and Ron Bendall had no interest in football so he didn't have a clue what to do once Saunders had gone. He made a good start so giving him the job permanently was the obvious thing to do.
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: castlefields_villan on February 24, 2018, 10:55:33 PM
Were there other options considered before they gave the job to Tony, or at least other candidates mentioned in the press? It's some gig when you think about it, it's not often (especially more back then) that the job at the Champions comes up, with them in the 1/4 finals of the big cup.

Tony got the acting manager's job because he was there and Ron Bendall had no interest in football so he didn't have a clue what to do once Saunders had gone. He made a good start so giving him the job permanently was the obvious thing to do.

Another superb point Dave
UTV
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: WarszaVillan on February 24, 2018, 11:05:14 PM
As I remember it (I was a kid so this may not be right) Barton's appointment was quite a surprise. Roy Maclaren was much more prominent under Saunders - how come he wasn't offered the job?
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: dave.woodhall on February 24, 2018, 11:17:55 PM
As I remember it (I was a kid so this may not be right) Barton's appointment was quite a surprise. Roy Maclaren was much more prominent under Saunders - how come he wasn't offered the job?

McLaren was the trainer, Barton the manager's assistant. It's been hinted that McLaren had a bit of a higher profile because Saunders was happy to let him have it as he was strictly a backroom man whereas he didn't like the thought of Barton taking any glory. Saunders always had to be the undisputed number one.     
Title: Re: Hypothetical stick or twist
Post by: Damo70 on February 25, 2018, 12:04:32 PM
I was a Villa mad eleven year old when Barton was appointed. At that time I knew who and what MacLaren was, but had never previously heard or seen of Tony Barton to my knowledge.
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