Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on February 10, 2018, 10:10:42 AM
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Read me (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/aston-villa-vs-birmingham-second-city-derby-preview-time-when-pettiness-a8202706.html)
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One of our number with a BTL comment:
"Son_Lyme
14 hours ago
Has Ian Danter started writing for the Indy? Of all the things one could say about this particular unpleasant derby Mr Liew fails to note the most pertinent. This derby is fuelled by hatred, anger, and envy.
The two sets of fans are the same everyday people - from all over the city - not from set areas of it, and this supposed rivalry doesn't exist.
The two clubs are on different planets even when sharing a league - true rivalry requires competition - but the only area where BCFC have excelled is in having dubious owners. Repeatedly.
What does exist is a seething jealous loathing that exhibits itself in moronic acts of random violence. Of all the derby games I have ever attended (and I include Liverpool and Glasgow in this) this is the nastiest, none of them match this one for petty hatred and total irrelevance."
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Any SHA fan criticising our attendances may find himself on something of a sticky wicket.
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Any SHA fan criticising our attendances may find himself on something of a sticky wicket.
It's like throwing stones from the doorway of the original Crystal Palace.
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Any SHA fan criticising our attendances may find himself on something of a sticky wicket.
It's like throwing stones from the doorway of the original Crystal Palace.
Ha ha. Well put.
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The noses have never quite got the hang of how football works. They think that 2 games against one team is more important than getting more points than anyone else in the division. I suppose there in lies their problem.
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What a load of condecending horse shit
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Is there a Manchester Media Unit that scours the world's media for favourable mentions of Birmingham?
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The March 2003 encounter at Villa Park was one of the all-time great Premier League fixtures
Depends what you mean by great really, doesn't it.
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Is there a Manchester Media Unit that scours the world's media for favourable mentions of Birmingham?
That made me chuckle Dave .......having lived or worked in Brum,Manchester and Liverpool I've come to the conclusion on the "chip on the shoulder" stakes that Scousers come first, Brummies second and Mancs third
The whole " second city" thing makes me smile also - on what criteria should it be based? Population, geographical area, economy, airport size, football teams, proximity to the centre of the universe ( aka London), history, music, exports/ industry motorway links ?
Maybe I should ask Dr Carl Chinn
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The March 2003 encounter at Villa Park was one of the all-time great Premier League fixtures
And you can stop right there.
I'm not sure there was barely even a shot in anger until Enkleman phucked us again, both sides were more worried about making the first mistake.
Which we invariably did. And then added a few more for good measure.
If I was a neutral, I'm sure I would have thought it was stoneage stuff.
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The March 2003 encounter at Villa Park was one of the all-time great Premier League fixtures
Depends what you mean by great really, doesn't it.
It was memorable and I would imagine in a slightly perverse way it was great viewing for the neutral. I can't deny I enjoy watching other local derbies and Liverpool/United live, mainly for the needle/aggro on the pitch.
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The March 2003 encounter at Villa Park was one of the all-time great Premier League fixtures
Depends what you mean by great really, doesn't it.
It was memorable and I would imagine in a slightly perverse way it was great viewing for the neutral. I can't deny I enjoy watching other local derbies and Liverpool/United live, mainly for the needle/aggro on the pitch.
My mate, a Brummie West Brom fan, was in the navy at the time and watched it on a submarine with people from all over the country. He said all the neutrals were transfixed by the intensity and atmosphere. Apparently the hatred really came across through the TV.
It dissipates a lot the more we play though.
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That match would have done. Nasty, horrible atmosphere from before the start to after the finish.
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That match would have done. Nasty, horrible atmosphere from before the start to after the finish.
Yep, there was an atmosphere at Villa Park that night that I haven't experienced before or since.
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I think the worst/moodiest atmospheres in the stands when I have been in the ground were Boxing Day 1982 at their place and the Enckelman game, also at the sty. The moodiest/worst regarding on the pitch was the October '83 'battle of Brum'. The March 2003 probably wins overall as it was equally moody in the stands and on the pitch. It was the night everyone in the ground seemed to lose the plot to some extent.
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I was actually late into the 03/03/03 fiasco; at least 20 -25 minutes late.
Didn't actually see any snarling faces or moodiness on the way to the ground.
But I remember heading up to the second tier of the Trinity and sensing the malevolence in the air before I even made it through to the other side of the gate.
Fetid, on and off the pitch.
That's what that rabble bring to the party. They do us no favours at all.
Give me the early 90s when we saw Yanited, Liverpool and actual football teams as our rivals any day of the week.
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The anger escaped onto here on that dreaded night. The infamous Cnut night IIRC.
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I think that was the away game that season.
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No, it was definitely the home game because the main instigator of cnut night was slagging off the fans who had taken time out to put something (although I can't remember what) on all the home seats before the game.
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The worst I remember was at the 2nd div game at the sty when we went down under McNeil. Garry Thomson scored and I think we won 2-0. Might have felt more moody because I was on the Kop, colours covered and celebrations very much muted!
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03/03/03 will never be matched in terms of sheer nastiness inside VP. It just can't.
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The worst I remember was at the 2nd div game at the sty when we went down under McNeil. Garry Thomson scored and I think we won 2-0. Might have felt more moody because I was on the Kop, colours covered and celebrations very much muted!
We never played Blues under Mcneil
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The worst I remember was at the 2nd div game at the sty when we went down under McNeil. Garry Thomson scored and I think we won 2-0. Might have felt more moody because I was on the Kop, colours covered and celebrations very much muted!
We never played Blues under Mcneil
It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
What do you mean 'was'? ;D
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
What do you mean 'was'? ;D
Fair point. And well made.
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I was at the 97 bus stop heading to the Sty for the Garry Thompson game when a girl from an adjacent block of flats shouted from her window and waved a big spliff at me. I fancied her sister so that was the end of my interest in going to the game.
From what I heard later it could have been fate averting my early death as no doubt I’d have been running round with all the ‘characters’ had I gone.
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I was at the 97 bus stop heading to the Sty for the Garry Thompson game when a girl from an adjacent block of flats shouted from her window and waved a big spliff at me. I fancied her sister so that was the end of my interest in going to the game.
From what I heard later it could have been fate averting my early death as no doubt I’d have been running round with all the ‘characters’ had I gone.
Good to see you've got your priorities right Steve - sex,drugs and football - in that order?
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I was at the 97 bus stop heading to the Sty for the Garry Thompson game when a girl from an adjacent block of flats shouted from her window and waved a big spliff at me. I fancied her sister so that was the end of my interest in going to the game.
From what I heard later it could have been fate averting my early death as no doubt I’d have been running round with all the ‘characters’ had I gone.
Good to see you've got your priorities right Steve - sex,drugs and football - in that order?
No. I’m finished with drugs. The others though, and music - well, what a question!
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I was actually late into the 03/03/03 fiasco; at least 20 -25 minutes late.
Didn't actually see any snarling faces or moodiness on the way to the ground.
But I remember heading up to the second tier of the Trinity and sensing the malevolence in the air before I even made it through to the other side of the gate.
Fetid, on and off the pitch.
That's what that rabble bring to the party. They do us no favours at all.
Give me the early 90s when we saw Yanited, Liverpool and actual football teams as our rivals any day of the week.
Using your post about the game on the third of the third '03, take a wild guess what was the first Villa/Small heath derby I took my wife to.
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I was actually late into the 03/03/03 fiasco; at least 20 -25 minutes late.
Didn't actually see any snarling faces or moodiness on the way to the ground.
But I remember heading up to the second tier of the Trinity and sensing the malevolence in the air before I even made it through to the other side of the gate.
Fetid, on and off the pitch.
That's what that rabble bring to the party. They do us no favours at all.
Give me the early 90s when we saw Yanited, Liverpool and actual football teams as our rivals any day of the week.
Using your post about the game on the third of the third '03, take a wild guess what was the first Villa/Small heath derby I took my wife to.
I take it after the game she never demanded you buy her a season ticket.
My memories of that day was a wonderful afternoon spent in the company of the lovely folk on here in the Holte End, off for a few pints in Handsworth in some back street boozer Dave Woodhall had the sense to take me (and the legendary Jay Forsyth amongst others), then back down to Villa Park for the game.
Due to the number of missiles being thrown at the police from the Holte down Witton Lane, I had to walk all the way around to meet up with my father under the bridge at Witton Station after the game. I'm not sure we spoke in the car all the way back. Some times words just can't sum up what you've just witnessed. What your wife thought, I have no idea.
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The worst I remember was at the 2nd div game at the sty when we went down under McNeil. Garry Thomson scored and I think we won 2-0. Might have felt more moody because I was on the Kop, colours covered and celebrations very much muted!
We never played Blues under Mcneil
It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
I remember this like yesterday, being packed into the Tilton and a tannoy announcement being made asking Villa supporters to move forwards to “make room for fellow Villa supporters still outside “ cue more choruses of “what a Fu#@ing shithole” when we scored one of our goals Villa supporters climbed over the fences into the Kop and they backed off. The Justice Taylor report and Sky hasn’t all been bad.
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Never went in the old days, but my dad always said they would hardly bother opening any turnstiles at the away end and it would take forever to get in.
Mind you, even thirty years later the utter dickhead stewards at the Hawthorns do their best to delay away fans.
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I was actually late into the 03/03/03 fiasco; at least 20 -25 minutes late.
Didn't actually see any snarling faces or moodiness on the way to the ground.
But I remember heading up to the second tier of the Trinity and sensing the malevolence in the air before I even made it through to the other side of the gate.
Fetid, on and off the pitch.
That's what that rabble bring to the party. They do us no favours at all.
Give me the early 90s when we saw Yanited, Liverpool and actual football teams as our rivals any day of the week.
Using your post about the game on the third of the third '03, take a wild guess what was the first Villa/Small heath derby I took my wife to.
I took my wife. She loved it. She hates b-lose.
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
The police must have been on commission that day with their snatch squads. During the game, some kind hearted Villa fan came up to me to warn me the police were about to nick me, so I moved further down and out of sight. I can only think it was for swearing and possibly flicking the Vs at the Knuckledraggers. Either that or they were trying to make space for the Villa fans still queuing outside.
It really was even more of a shithole of a ground back then, taking ages to get in through a couple of poxy hole in the wall turnstiles. How nobody got seriously injured or worse in the crush to get in I'll never know.
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
The police must have been on commission that day with their snatch squads. During the game, some kind hearted Villa fan came up to me to warn me the police were about to nick me, so I moved further down and out of sight. I can only think it was for swearing and possibly flicking the Vs at the Knuckledraggers. Either that or they were trying to make space for the Villa fans still queuing outside.
It really was even more of a shithole of a ground back then, taking ages to get in through a couple of poxy hole in the wall turnstiles. How nobody got seriously injured or worse in the crush to get in I'll never know.
The 1987 game was the most scared I have ever been at football. There were only a couple of turnstiles open and the police horses were coralling us so the crushes were ridiculous. I only got in after 25 minutes when the score was already 1-1 despite arriving around 2.15. At some point in the 2nd half the cops opened a further stretch of terracing on the Tilton towards their kop and there was a fair bit of trouble. I was rabidly hungover as it was my birthday but the game and the win brought me back to life.
I got nicked at the pre-season friendly in 1983 in exactly the same way that Rudy describes above. Flicking the v sign and singing Howard Gayle, what a wanker. The cops couldn't get me on a slander charge as I was factually accurate so i was thrown out for foul and abusive language. There were dozens of us outside, all in the same boat. I was a poor student then so couldn't afford to pay to get back in. We lost 1-0.
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03/03/03 was by far the worst for me. Town when I wandered through at lunchtime already had an atmosphere that suggested the place could go off like a bottle of pop at any moment.
The later to be wife was out there for ten minutes and came back visibly nervous about my attending the game. 8 hours later.
I had the foresight to ignore her nervy texts after leaving work and just tell her I was on the bus home and was fine. She watched on TV with her Derby fan brother and they were both a bit disturbed by the goings on on and off the pitch they could see.
I have only been slung out of a ground once and it wasn't this one, oddly. I was potted away at West Brom when watching Cheltenham play them in the cup. My crime? Doing a tit juggling action at some fat Olbiyun prick that was gobbing off, and doing throat slit actions, to the terrifying South Midlands hordes of daytrippers.
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I was watching my 10 year old play in a school football match last week and got chatting to a just retired copper dad of another lad
anyway I happened to mention I was taking my misses to her first professional football match on Sunday between Villa and Birmingham
he laughed and said 'fuck me that match has gone down in history at the station'
now bear in mind the station is Milton Keynes and it is 70 miles away from Brum
I said was it 2003, 'yes' he said 'it must have been it was a night match'
he then regailed me of loads of incidents during the night,
he and his vicious copper mates loved it but the thing that made me laugh most was his chief inspector who 'normally doesn't get out of his office' actually bent his baton on a load of yobs that were chanting 'Zulu Zulu' he hit that many people with it
I said it won't be like that on Sunday it all changed even my 4 year old Grandaughters going
never the less it remains a thing of history at the MK police station
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Bad things come in threes, it should never have taken place on that date - or 8pm for that matter.
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
The police must have been on commission that day with their snatch squads. During the game, some kind hearted Villa fan came up to me to warn me the police were about to nick me, so I moved further down and out of sight. I can only think it was for swearing and possibly flicking the Vs at the Knuckledraggers. Either that or they were trying to make space for the Villa fans still queuing outside.
It really was even more of a shithole of a ground back then, taking ages to get in through a couple of poxy hole in the wall turnstiles. How nobody got seriously injured or worse in the crush to get in I'll never know.
The 1987 game was the most scared I have ever been at football. There were only a couple of turnstiles open and the police horses were coralling us so the crushes were ridiculous. I only got in after 25 minutes when the score was already 1-1 despite arriving around 2.15. At some point in the 2nd half the cops opened a further stretch of terracing on the Tilton towards their kop and there was a fair bit of trouble. I was rabidly hungover as it was my birthday but the game and the win brought me back to life.
I remember that the section of terracing separating the Tilton and Kop was meant to be left empty but there was such bad crushing in the two sections that were open they had to open it up, as Villa flooded onto that section, me included, a big proportion of Blues came from the back of the Kop to stand on the other side of the fence. And various pleasantries were exchanged throughout the match.
Certainly the only game I’ve ever been at where the numbers of away fans matched the number of home fans.
Not much fun avoiding the house bricks on Fazely St on the walk back to town.
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It was under Taylor and we won 2-1. It was freezing and the Sty was an utter dump. There was a procession of evictions throughout the game. Lots of trouble where Tilton and Kop met.
I queued up as a teenager to get a spot and got in about 1:45. Some lad was being kicked out as I entered.
The police must have been on commission that day with their snatch squads. During the game, some kind hearted Villa fan came up to me to warn me the police were about to nick me, so I moved further down and out of sight. I can only think it was for swearing and possibly flicking the Vs at the Knuckledraggers. Either that or they were trying to make space for the Villa fans still queuing outside.
It really was even more of a shithole of a ground back then, taking ages to get in through a couple of poxy hole in the wall turnstiles. How nobody got seriously injured or worse in the crush to get in I'll never know.
The 1987 game was the most scared I have ever been at football. There were only a couple of turnstiles open and the police horses were coralling us so the crushes were ridiculous. I only got in after 25 minutes when the score was already 1-1 despite arriving around 2.15. At some point in the 2nd half the cops opened a further stretch of terracing on the Tilton towards their kop and there was a fair bit of trouble. I was rabidly hungover as it was my birthday but the game and the win brought me back to life.
I got nicked at the pre-season friendly in 1983 in exactly the same way that Rudy describes above. Flicking the v sign and singing Howard Gayle, what a wanker. The cops couldn't get me on a slander charge as I was factually accurate so i was thrown out for foul and abusive language. There were dozens of us outside, all in the same boat. I was a poor student then so couldn't afford to pay to get back in. We lost 1-0.
I was in Australia for the notorious December '87 game. But I remember boxing day '82 when the atmosphere was pure hate. Also the return game at their place in March '84 after the notorious game at VP the previous October. Howard Gayle giving it the big 'un after scoring the winner. Without checking I reckon there must have been twice as many packed into the sty for the boxing day game than there was for the game just over twelve months later. That pre season friendly in 1983 was the Birmingham senior cup final held over from the previous season which both teams used as their final pre season warm up game. Ian Handysides got the only goal of the game for them in front of a decent size crowd if I remember right.
Just checked December 27th 1982 - St. Andrews attendance 43,864, 31st March 1984 St. Andrews attendance 23,993.