Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on November 21, 2017, 10:06:12 AM
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Revolution, revival, wheels come off, relegation. What a whirlwind time !
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/382164799020_/1969-A4-Football-picture-article-TOMMY-DOCHERTY-Aston.jpg)(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/manager-tommy-docherty-training-with-aston-villa-fc-at-lilleshall-picture-id697342449)
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What a great photo, never seen that before.
The Doc was a brief but hugely important chapter is Villa's rise back to the top, I remember his time well, including his first game on Boxing day when the man in the centre of this photo headed a goal in front of the Holte on a snow-covered pitch to start the revival.
Sad to think that the two smiling guys in the middle are no longer with us.
Anyone name them all?
I can.
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Who is it between Bruce Rioch and Willie Anderson ?
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Who is it between Bruce Rioch and Willie Anderson ?
At a guess I'd say John Dunne, the keeper, but I wouldn't bank on it as it's not a clear view, though.
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Who is it between Bruce Rioch and Willie Anderson ?
At a guess I'd say John Dunne, the keeper, but I wouldn't bank on it as it's not a clear view, though.
I'm struggling to name him too.
Recognise the No. 12, but can't put a name to him either.
Dunne, Aitken and Turnbull seem to be missing.
Kapengwe and Mwila caught the same train as me back towards Sutton after a game, i was so star struck by their presence.
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Who is it between Bruce Rioch and Willie Anderson ?
He has the look of Colin Withers to me but I'm not sure.
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I think Dave is right - It looks like Colin Withers.I think the number 12 is Bobby Park. The picture looks like it was taken at Lilleshall.
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I think Dave is right - It looks like Colin Withers.I think the number 12 is Bobby Park. The picture looks like it was taken at Lilleshall.
Doesn't look like Withers to me, I'm now thinking possibly Geoff Crudgington. Number 12 is John Griffiths. It was taken at Lilleshall.
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Withers was an uglier looking Bugger
Have quite a few cut outs from the Mail and Nationals when Doc joined.
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I think Dave is right - It looks like Colin Withers.I think the number 12 is Bobby Park. The picture looks like it was taken at Lilleshall.
Doesn't look like Withers to me, I'm now thinking possibly Geoff Crudgington. Number 12 is John Griffiths. It was taken at Lilleshall.
Was Crudgington there back then?
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I think Dave is right - It looks like Colin Withers.I think the number 12 is Bobby Park. The picture looks like it was taken at Lilleshall.
Doesn't look like Withers to me, I'm now thinking possibly Geoff Crudgington. Number 12 is John Griffiths. It was taken at Lilleshall.
Was Crudgington there back then?
Just checked. Crudgington joined us 1/9/1969. Colin Withers left 1/6/69
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It's Geoff Crudgington
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Who is it between Bruce Rioch and Willie Anderson ?
At a guess I'd say John Dunne, the keeper, but I wouldn't bank on it as it's not a clear view, though.
I'm struggling to name him too.
Recognise the No. 12, but can't put a name to him either.
Dunne, Aitken and Turnbull seem to be missing.
Kapengwe and Mwila caught the same train as me back towards Sutton after a game, i was so star struck by their presence.
The number 12 is John Griffiths, a winger who only played one game for us against Albion, a hatchet job by Peter Rodrigues ended his career.
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Posted this before but I feel it gives a real sense of the excitement The Doc created in those first few months after years of decline under the old board with crowds having dropped to 13,000.
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It's Geoff Crudgington
The number 12 is John Griffiths, a winger who only played one game for us against Albion, a hatchet job by Peter Rodrigues ended his career.
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Thank you
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Posted this before but I feel it gives a real sense of the excitement The Doc created in those first few months after years of decline under the old board with crowds having dropped to 13,000.
My first game.
Brian Godfrey and Lionel Martin scored.
Thank you.
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It's a brilliant photo...in the days before hi-tech training gear, they all had different kits on, black boots, and Tommy Docherty with an armful of Villa shirts that probably were the same ones they wore for games!
I'm sure everyone knows but my identification of the players are, from left:
Top: Neil Rioch, Dave Rudge, Freddie Mwila, Keith Bradley
Middle: John Griffiths, Arthur Cox, Emment Kapengwe, Pat McMahon, Dave Simmons, Brian Tiler, Bruce Rioch, Geoff Crudgington, Willie Anderson, Lionel Martin, Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty.
Kneeling: Chico Hamilton, Barry Lynch, Micky Wright.
The Doc briefly brought us back from the brink and woke the sleeping lion...his importance in Villa's history cannot be underestimated!
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Revolution, revival, wheels come off, relegation. What a whirlwind time !
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/382164799020_/1969-A4-Football-picture-article-TOMMY-DOCHERTY-Aston.jpg)(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/manager-tommy-docherty-training-with-aston-villa-fc-at-lilleshall-picture-id697342449)
An intensely devoted family man, apart from when he is shagging the Man United phsyio's missus.
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who is up Mrs Brown
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I read his autobiography a few years ago. As a young and innovative coach he had Chelsea flying in the sixties. Apart from promotion and the FA cup at United in the seventies the rest of his career was an anti climax. Unfortunately my only real memories of him were when he was managing the basket case of a club that was Wolves in the eighties.
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Chico signed for 69/70 season, no ? Which would mean the pic was taken sometime between preseason 1969 and 15.1.70 (Docs sacking date - after a 5-3 home defeat by Portsmouth)
Acccording to my sources, Crudgington never played a game in 69/70, but the pic looks like him
Geoff's debut was not until Jan 1971 - long after Docs exit.
(Trivia fact: Nigel Martyn's 3 GK heroes:- Clemence, Southall and Geoff)
Quite a few players missing - possibly injured - Barry Hole & Brian Godfrey for instance
Griffiths injury was in a FA Cup match against Albion - he was sub for two FL matches earlier in the season - but I have found a Griffiths who played in the last match of the prev season. - against Hull - the same bloke?
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It's a brilliant photo...in the days before hi-tech training gear, they all had different kits on, black boots, and Tommy Docherty with an armful of Villa shirts that probably were the same ones they wore for games!
I'm sure everyone knows but my identification of the players are, from left:
Top: Neil Rioch, Dave Rudge, Freddie Mwila, Keith Bradley
Middle: John Griffiths, Arthur Cox, Emment Kapengwe, Pat McMahon, Dave Simmons, Brian Tiler, Bruce Rioch, Geoff Crudgington, Willie Anderson, Lionel Martin, Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty.
Kneeling: Chico Hamilton, Barry Lynch, Micky Wright.
The Doc briefly brought us back from the brink and woke the sleeping lion...his importance in Villa's history cannot be underestimated!
The shirts that Tommy Doc is holding are the shirts that he had taken off the washing line after the 20000 of us had gone home as the shirts were now dry!!!
Some on here will remember what i'm on about.
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The notable absentees from this picture are Barrie Hole, Mike Ferguson, and Dick Edwards.
All three had fell out with The Doc and were seen by him as the old guard and cause of dressing room discontent resulting in such a spectacularly abysmal start to the 69/70 season when we had been seen as favourites to go up.
Chico Hamilton(40k?), Pat McMahon(20k?), and Bruce Rioch(100k) were the big money pre-season signings who were going to take us back to the 1st division. As it was they were regulars in a team that took us down to division three. In the end all three proved to be very successful signings for us in the post Doc years.
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The Rioch bros look about 14
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The notable absentees from this picture are Barrie Hole, Mike Ferguson, and Dick Edwards.
All three had fell out with The Doc and were seen by him as the old guard and cause of dressing room discontent resulting in such a spectacularly abysmal start to the 69/70 season when we had been seen as favourites to go up.
Chico Hamilton(40k?), Pat McMahon(20k?), and Bruce Rioch(100k) were the big money pre-season signings who were going to take us back to the 1st division. As it was they were regulars in a team that took us down to division three. In the end all three proved to be very successful signings for us in the post Doc years.
I thought Pat McMahon was a free transfer...didwe pay circa £20k for him.
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You're right; PM was a free transfer from Celtic.
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You're right; PM was a free transfer from Celtic.
And a bloody good one!
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It's a brilliant photo...in the days before hi-tech training gear, they all had different kits on, black boots, and Tommy Docherty with an armful of Villa shirts that probably were the same ones they wore for games!
I'm sure everyone knows but my identification of the players are, from left:
Top: Neil Rioch, Dave Rudge, Freddie Mwila, Keith Bradley
Middle: John Griffiths, Arthur Cox, Emment Kapengwe, Pat McMahon, Dave Simmons, Brian Tiler, Bruce Rioch, Geoff Crudgington, Willie Anderson, Lionel Martin, Vic Crowe, Tommy Docherty.
Kneeling: Chico Hamilton, Barry Lynch, Micky Wright.
The Doc briefly brought us back from the brink and woke the sleeping lion...his importance in Villa's history cannot be underestimated!
The shirts that Tommy Doc is holding are the shirts that he had taken off the washing line after the 20000 of us had gone home as the shirts were now dry!!!
Some on here will remember what i'm on about.
I remember what you're on about mate!
For those who don't, Tommy Doc said Villa were so huge that if 11 shirts were hung on the line they'd get 20,000 fans to watch them dry!
This endeared him to the supporters in his whirlwinfd first season.
He also said that Brian Clough's high-flying Derby County wouldn't leave Villa Park with anything other than a cup of tea at half time, there were pics in the press of him holding a teapot. Derby won 1-0 from memory!
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The notable absentees from this picture are Barrie Hole, Mike Ferguson, and Dick Edwards.
All three had fell out with The Doc and were seen by him as the old guard and cause of dressing room discontent resulting in such a spectacularly abysmal start to the 69/70 season when we had been seen as favourites to go up.
Chico Hamilton(40k?), Pat McMahon(20k?), and Bruce Rioch(100k) were the big money pre-season signings who were going to take us back to the 1st division. As it was they were regulars in a team that took us down to division three. In the end all three proved to be very successful signings for us in the post Doc years.
You're right Andy. Hole, Edwards and Ferguson were bombed out by the Doc at the time, he preferred younger players who wouldn't question his authority.
The three of them had been spotted drinking in Brum on a Thursday before a game, they were fined, suspended and told to train with the 'stiffs', Hole actually went back to Wales to work in his family's newsagent shop, not to return until Doc was sacked!
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Talking of Barrie Hole, anyone else remember the song at the time referring to his misdemenour:
'He's here, he's there, he's every fkin where, Barrie Hole, Barrie Hole,
He's up, he's down, he's in the Rose & Crown, Barrie Hole, Barrie Hole
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....He shot, he missed, he must be f**kin pissed.
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Great photo, thanks for posting.
Didn’t realise Keith Bradley was so tall.
Also like the attention to player welfare even in those days-‘ Lads, if you have to kneel make sure it isn’t onto the cold concrete- use a boot or training shoe as a buffer’.
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A great picture,brings back lots of memories of watching Villa in my youth
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Great photo, but where's the great Charlie Aitken?
The Doc's turns 90 next year.
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It was an incredible couple of years. To be relegated, having started the season as clear favourites to be promoted, was really quite something.