Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Stu on October 15, 2017, 12:10:01 PM
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And we were lucky to have him. The comments are interesting, have fun: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/14/martin-oneill-is-in-the-managerial-elite-even-if-a-top-job-eludes-him
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We were.
I long for the days when I expect us to win every game we play, as I did under MON.
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let's bring him back yes!
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We were.
I long for the days when I expect us to win every game we play, as I did under MON.
Not at home you didn't.
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I could only bring myself to skim read it but didn't we come 10th in his first season (rather than 11th)?
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We were.
I long for the days when I expect us to win every game we play, as I did under MON.
We expected it but often we didn't win. In the years we finished 6th not winning enough at home kept us out of CL.
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We were.
I long for the days when I expect us to win every game we play, as I did under MON.
Yes, all our successes were down to O'Neill. The ninety trillion pounds he had to spend were nothing to do with it.
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The only surprise was that Oliver Holt didnt write the article
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I could only bring myself to skim read it but didn't we come 10th in his first season (rather than 11th)?
No, it was 11th and from memory the first time O'Neill had finished out of the top half of the league.
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Underperformed with the resources he had at his disposal.
The harm that MON did to us was a smaller scale version of what Peter Ridsdale did at Leeds. Both clubs are still suffering the damage that results from gamblers when they are let loose with other peoples money.
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To be fair to MON, he spunked untold millions to finish 6th but without him we were a complete rudderless ship. No one else at the club had a fucking clue. Once he was gone it was the equivalent of leaving your kids at home for a year and expecting them to keep the house running.
MON was/is average, Lerner the true villain.
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Can you imagine how many multiples of millions would need to be spent now to finish 6th? I despair when I think about what we are going to do when we get back to the top flight.
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Well that's when we'd truly find out how much money Dr Tony really has.
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Indeed.
The problem Lerner had was that he wasn't rich enough to compensate for his lack of business sense.
I suspect Xia's got no money, so he'll need a a hell of a lot of commercial acumen.
(Which I personally doubt - but there you go.)
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I could only bring myself to skim read it but didn't we come 10th in his first season (rather than 11th)?
No, it was 11th and from memory the first time O'Neill had finished out of the top half of the league.
Ah thanks, for some reason I always had it in my head we finished 10th in his first season (maybe that was a different reality where Phil Dowd sent Vidic off or at least booked him and we went on to win that final).
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Underperformed with the resources he had at his disposal.
The harm that MON did to us was a smaller scale version of what Peter Ridsdale did at Leeds. Both clubs are still suffering the damage that results from gamblers when they are let loose with other peoples money.
It is interesting that you blame Risdale and not DOL at Leeds but blame MON and not Lerner. Why was Leeds spending down to the chairman and ours down to the manager? Surely the chain of command and final say was with the chairman/owner on both occasions.
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MON was a cock in many ways, a conversation we have had at great length and especially in the manner in which it all ended. But it was on the surface at least a much, much better time. I’d take challenging for a top six spot in the PL versus what we do with our time now.
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MON was a cock in many ways, a conversation we have had at great length and especially in the manner in which it all ended. But it was on the surface at least a much, much better time. I’d take challenging for a top six spot in the PL versus what we do with our time now.
Of course. I think what gets up my nose is the narrative that getting Villa to finish 6th was a remarkable achievement. It wasn't.
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Never knew of his post-football career in insurance. I wonder if Chelts would hire him.
Robertson remembers what his mate was like in the world of insurance. “By his own admission, Martin’s knowledge of the financial services we were trying to sell was not the best. But he came across as though he knew the business inside out.”
Fake it til you make it, Bullshitter O'Neill.
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I mentioned it after the Wales-ROI game but let's be honest the football he plays isn't much better than Big Sam and Pulis.
You can see how ROI play, defensive style, dangerous at set pieces and even during our peak years here we scored many goals from set pieces and our frequent method of attack was to play a ball over the top for Gabby to chase.
We had brilliant players to execute the gameplan (Gabby, Carew, Laursen etc) but it wasn't sophisticated compared to the teams around us in the league.
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Underperformed with the resources he had at his disposal.
The harm that MON did to us was a smaller scale version of what Peter Ridsdale did at Leeds. Both clubs are still suffering the damage that results from gamblers when they are let loose with other peoples money.
It is interesting that you blame Risdale and not DOL at Leeds but blame MON and not Lerner. Why was Leeds spending down to the chairman and ours down to the manager? Surely the chain of command and final say was with the chairman/owner on both occasions.
Ridsdale borrowed large sums on the basis that the loans would be repaid with regular Champions League income. He seemed intent on sending more good money after bad until the wheels came off. Lerner was out of his depth owning a big football club but MON just kept on going with more bad signings than good unwilling to listen to reasonable demands which came too late to reign things in.
Two owners and two managers, all four of whom have failed in the modern high finance football world. Risdale wreckless, Lerner incompetent, MON overrated, don't even get me started on DOL.
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Everyone who backs O'Neill seems to regard him as a managerial genius who walked out because Lerner stopped throwing money at him. Isn't that precisely the time where good managers prove their ability?
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MON was a cock in many ways, a conversation we have had at great length and especially in the manner in which it all ended. But it was on the surface at least a much, much better time. I’d take challenging for a top six spot in the PL versus what we do with our time now.
Of course. I think what gets up my nose is the narrative that getting Villa to finish 6th was a remarkable achievement. It wasn't.
7 out of the 10 previous managers to MON achieved 6th or better. In those terms, his "achievement" places him ahead of only Turner, McNeill, and Venglos.
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Turner and Lambert are the only managers in the last 40 years to have spent 2 full seasons in charge of Villa and not finish top 6.
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Turner and Lambert are the only managers in the last 40 years to have spent 2 full seasons in charge of Villa and not finish top 6.
Nice stat!
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You could go back even further if you include top six in division two.
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Oh for the days of finishing top 6 in the Premier League!
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Oh for the days of finishing top 6 in the Premier League!
Yeah I would take it. Also while MON's dour negative personality drove me nuts, I sure did enjoy it when he snapped at some referee or opponent with a snide little dig :)
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Oh for the days of finishing top 6 in the Premier League!
Yeah I would take it. Also while MON's dour negative personality drove me nuts, I sure did enjoy it when he snapped at some referee or opponent with a snide little dig :)
Yep. It was a great few years to be a Villa fan. Little did we know what was around the corner though.
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Oh for the days of finishing top 6 in the Premier League!
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Oh for the days of finishing top 6 in the Premier League!
Haha - brilliant! All credit to hindsight.......
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MON was a cock in many ways, a conversation we have had at great length and especially in the manner in which it all ended. But it was on the surface at least a much, much better time. I’d take challenging for a top six spot in the PL versus what we do with our time now.
Of course. I think what gets up my nose is the narrative that getting Villa to finish 6th was a remarkable achievement. It wasn't.
7 out of the 10 previous managers to MON achieved 6th or better. In those terms, his "achievement" places him ahead of only Turner, McNeill, and Venglos.
Where I give him credit is in the consistency - finishing top 6 in 3 consecutive years is something I cannot previously recall us doing. The obvious problem was that we just couldn't build on that and move upwards. When he left 6th place felt like failure and we should have had a plan to replace him and move on.
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It's interesting to consider the narrative had Bale and Allen been able to play a full part for Wales, which could well have turned the result.
Ireland fail to qualify, MO'N comes under the same scrutiny as Strachan & Coleman; time for a change, maybe?; no apparent interest in MO'N for top club jobs; is it time for him to retire?
Of course, a 1-0 win changes all that, for some.
Incidentally, I never blame MO'N for spending all that cash, some of which, we might care to remember, was very well spent. Rather I would blame the prat who allowed him to spend what he wanted with no oversight. Be thankful. If it had been Redknapp in charge instead, the club might have folded!!
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I like Daniel Taylor but as he’s a Forest fan I think he’s allowed his memories of him on a Forest shirt to Colour his judgement.
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MON was a cock in many ways, a conversation we have had at great length and especially in the manner in which it all ended. But it was on the surface at least a much, much better time. I’d take challenging for a top six spot in the PL versus what we do with our time now.
Of course. I think what gets up my nose is the narrative that getting Villa to finish 6th was a remarkable achievement. It wasn't.
7 out of the 10 previous managers to MON achieved 6th or better. In those terms, his "achievement" places him ahead of only Turner, McNeill, and Venglos.
Where I give him credit is in the consistency - finishing top 6 in 3 consecutive years is something I cannot previously recall us doing. The obvious problem was that we just couldn't build on that and move upwards. When he left 6th place felt like failure and we should have had a plan to replace him and move on.
It did. We flirted with an echelon now occupied by Spurs. That’s what is most disappointing. It’s the classic “it could/should be us” when I watch them now. Battering then only to draw 4-4 means so much more in hindsight than the score itself.
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I like Daniel Taylor but as he’s a Forest fan I think he’s allowed his memories of him on a Forest shirt to Colour his judgement.
Is he old enough to remember O'Neill in a Forest shirt?
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Never knew of his post-football career in insurance. I wonder if Chelts would hire him.
Robertson remembers what his mate was like in the world of insurance. “By his own admission, Martin’s knowledge of the financial services we were trying to sell was not the best. But he came across as though he knew the business inside out.”
Fake it til you make it, Bullshitter O'Neill.
Would I bollocks.
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It's interesting to consider the narrative had Bale and Allen been able to play a full part for Wales, which could well have turned the result.
Ireland fail to qualify, MO'N comes under the same scrutiny as Strachan & Coleman; time for a change, maybe?; no apparent interest in MO'N for top club jobs; is it time for him to retire?
Of course, a 1-0 win changes all that, for some.
Incidentally, I never blame MO'N for spending all that cash, some of which, we might care to remember, was very well spent. Rather I would blame the prat who allowed him to spend what he wanted with no oversight. Be thankful. If it had been Redknapp in charge instead, the club might have folded!!
He agreed a new two year deal with ROI before the game so a defeat/draw wouldn't have put him out of a job.
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I think Ireland will be his last job. I don't think he was ever first in and last out of the office or training ground like Ferguson used to be. More like a Clough turning up when he chose to. I think the schedule of an international manager suits him. I can't see that the kind of clubs who would hire him these days would interest him.
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Everyone who backs O'Neill seems to regard him as a managerial genius who walked out because Lerner stopped throwing money at him. Isn't that precisely the time where good managers prove their ability?
Nail on head Dave
For me O’Neill proved himself to be nothing but a gutless quitter whose act of desertion showed the utter contempt that he held us in. Hope whoever they get in the play offs comprehensively beat them, preferably controversially so I can smugly reciprocate that contempt.
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I think Ireland will be his last job. I don't think he was ever first in and last out of the office or training ground like Ferguson used to be. More like a Clough turning up when he chose to. I think the schedule of an international manager suits him. I can't see that the kind of clubs who would hire him these days would interest him.
He reached the end of his shelf life as a club manager with us. You could see that the spark and enthusiasm he had at Leicester and Celtic had gone. The fact that he could not maintain a decent start at Sunderland just confirmed that and in the end he was finished as a club manager. I always thought international football would be a good move for him as it eradicates some of his main weaknesses and to be fair to him, he's done a decent job with Ireland with limited resources.
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Everyone who backs O'Neill seems to regard him as a managerial genius who walked out because Lerner stopped throwing money at him. Isn't that precisely the time where good managers prove their ability?
More than likely Lerner pulled the plug on signings MON had lined up with the planned Milner sale. Most managers would walk in that scenario particularly a control freak like MON. Lerner's biggest error was letting MON buy badly in a panic the summer before e.g. Beye in areas we didn't need strengthening. Steve Bruce unfortunately has made the same mistakes again.