Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 23, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
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We were pretty crap and rode our luck a fair few times but a win is a win.
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Bruce in!
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Two wins in two, weren't the better side in either of them really, but hey technically speaking we've fucked them, so, YES.
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Very iffy.
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2 points off play offs
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Thank fuck for the 3 points.
Why do we make it so hard for ourselves? I've no nails left!
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Not a great display but take the win. Kodjia brings so much positivity and Adomah played a very good game. Burton and Bolton now. 6 points is a must
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We are unvincible.
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I can't glean much confidence in us as a team, and no doubt Bruce will be laughing at all the hysterical fans shortly but I'm very grateful for the points.
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Two wins in two, weren't the better side in either of them really, but hey technically speaking we've fucked them, so, YES.
Clearly better today barring the 20mins after half.
Adomah and Kodjia were great today. Hourihane's free kick was a beauty, and thank god for it. Defense looked a little unorganized at times but plenty of em were willing to throw their bodies in front of balls. I think that 11 could do well in this league.
On that note, Odomah was really poor.
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We would have drew that last season so maybe our lucks changing. Good to get the win but still not confident of going up. Whelan and Elmo need to be fucked off whelen especially he was forests best player.
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Funny game
Never great and obviously a bit nervous on occasion
But should have been at least 2-0 up at half time
Then could have been 3-1 down
We need to be more confident passing the ball
But there's no question we're starting to look much more dangerous when we attack
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Don't play great but win? Stuff of champions in the making.
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36% possession, if we don't learn to to hold onto the ball better we are going to struggle to win consistently, a better side than Forest would have made us pay today. Saving grace for Bruce is there isn't much quality down here to take advantage of the fact we're not really a very good side, we just have very good individuals who keep saving us.
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We have to see this as a big result in our season. And of course holding on to win when we didn't last season.
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Thank fuck for the 3 points.
Why do we make it so hard for ourselves? I've no nails left!
Sometimes, it's almost like the game's so easy we get bored and try and make it more of a challenge.
Anyway, 1 up, never looking in trouble, should have been a couple to the good at least, then conceding an equaliser out of nowhere - we know how this story would have ended last season, so it's great to see we found a way to win. I'd like to see Jedi in place of Whelan next game, other than that the performances were generally fine.
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
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A win is a win I guess, but in the long run, I can't see how conceding so much possession to teams is gonna benefit us. The better teams in the league will make us pay, Forest are a mid table team at best, so we got away with it today. Plus being such a slow team is painful to watch, don't see the point of Snodgrass and Whelan up to this point.
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If I still had a season ticket I'm sure I'd have had a stroke by now.
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A wins a win.
6 and 7 for all players bar Whelan. Minus 7. I've seen a tortoise run faster.
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36% possession, if we don't learn to to hold onto the ball better we are going to struggle to win consistently, a better side than Forest would have made us pay today. Saving grace for Bruce is there isn't much quality down here to take advantage of the fact we're not really a very good side, we just have very good individuals who keep saving us.
PWS Only one stat counts and that the goals for and against.
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Gave them far too much in midfield. Whelan was a walking corpse. Possession surrendered too easily and to often.
We got away with it today but we won't keep doing so.
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Very pleased to snaffle the 3 points, but I didn't see much to suggest that we'll be at the sharp-end anytime soon. Perhaps if we were to play football through the thirds rather than bypassing the midfield so often, we'd resemble a half-decent side? At least we look OK defensively & up front...
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Don't play great but win? Stuff of champions in the making.
I keep trying to tell myself that, but I just we could absolutely smash someone once in a while.
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
Bit harsh on him, I'd say, it was his endeavour that won the free kick that Hourihane knocked in as well. Got caught offside a few times when he shouldn't have, and his typical solo merchant stuff, but I'd say he was the difference maker out there.
Snodgrass was alright in the first half but completely disappeared in the second, early days but needs some work.
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Happy with the result which keeps us going in the right direction but I said at half time that we should've been much more aggressive after we scored our first, they completely fell apart for half an hour, and we barely created a chance and let them get to half time still in the game. When they equalised it wasn't a shock and we hung on a little but again the individual quality of Kodjia got us a chance from nothing and a combination of Hourihane hitting the target and a weak effort at getting a hand to it from the keeper got us the win.
When Bruce arrived I said I expected him to get us fairly solid at the back and to let the attacking players keep him in the job, we eventually seem to have got there and, whilst it's not pretty and won't work against better sides, if he can keep it going we might still get something out of the season. My worry, as always, is that he tends to run hot and cold and we're not hot enough right now to be able to handle another run of 1-2 wins in 10.
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If I still had a season ticket I'm sure I'd have had a stroke by now.
We're not that enjoyable to watch.
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
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36% possession, if we don't learn to to hold onto the ball better we are going to struggle to win consistently, a better side than Forest would have made us pay today. Saving grace for Bruce is there isn't much quality down here to take advantage of the fact we're not really a very good side, we just have very good individuals who keep saving us.
It's partly the 442 conundrum
You trade possession for threat
But I can't see us playing 442 week in week out, especially against the best sides
Didn't reallly improve with 4411, but that's because Onomah was incredibly hesitant and hogan just couldn't hold it up
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If I still had a season ticket I'm sure I'd have had a stroke by now.
We're not that enjoyable to watch.
I believe that's why he wasn't allowed to renew...
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
Davis was good!
Kodjia erratic but dangerous at his best
Whelan irritates me with his decision taking.
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Sam Johnstone is no golfer he sliced every kick
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Daft game, not too much excitement but we scored because they cant defend, they scored because we fell asleep after half time and we scored another from a great free kick. We looked far more competent than Forest yet we still looked liked gifting them at least a point for a while. Delighted with the win but Elmohaddy is a liability, Onomah looked a liability when he came on and Whelan looked knackered with 15 to go. Was Jedinak on the bench?
Anyway, we move on.
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
I'd agree with your poor list :-)
Davis holds the ball up well but needs midfield runners if he is to do that properly, Whelan & Hourihane were sitting all game & never got within 30yds of Davis.
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Highlights (http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-n-forest/374715)
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Sam Johnstone is no golfer he sliced every kick
I do like an exaggeration.
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If you play with twin strikers and two wingers I think you need to keep your central midfielders quite deep
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I sincerely hope he comes good, however (!) Snodgrass is barely recognisable as the player he was a couple of years ago. Have we signed his shit twin brother by mistake?
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A win is always welcomed but it was painful. As Stevie says it is what it is.
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Whelan was terrible, I lost count of how many times he either got caught in possession or gave it away. Kodjia needs to get his head up and pass the ball, we would stretch teams even more if we played it round them. Adomah looked good every time he was on the ball.
We won but didn't play great, sign of Champions.
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The Manager has just confirmed that Ross McCaramac is off to Melbourne on loan.
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Post match interview https://www.facebook.com/pg/avfcofficial/videos
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Daft game, not too much excitement but we scored because they cant defend, they scored because we fell asleep after half time and we scored another from a great free kick. We looked far more competent than Forest yet we still looked liked gifting them at least a point for a while. Delighted with the win but Elmohaddy is a liability, Onomah looked a liability when he came on and Whelan looked knackered with 15 to go. Was Jedinak on the bench?
Anyway, we move on.
If I had a penny for every time those 3 gave the ball away tonight, I'd have enough money to buy a packet of nibbles to go with my drink. Every cloud...
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The Manager has just confirmed that Ross McCaramac is off to Melbourne on loan.
I take it that'll be the one in South Cambridgeshire?
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Pleased with that.
We found a way to win is what I've been saying walking back and Ian Taylor echoed it just on WM.
First half we should have been out of sight, we pushed their full backs back and strangled territory and where they were having the ball.
Slow start second half and a very sloppy goal let their full backs give them some width. That said, they didn't create much and scored with their first shot, Chester being very poor with that, but we did seem architects of our own misfortune.
The goal wrestled back control and we got back to pinning them in. Yes they had a lot of the ball, but it was convictionless garbage.
Kodjia is a few games off fitness, lovely reverse ball, while Snoddgrass decision making was off, Davis a bit quiet and we are carrying a few, yet we found a way to win. And deservedly so, despite being poorer second half.
12 points from 6 since the Reading defeat. 10 goals and 3 clean sheets, 2 points per game. Some iffy performances like Brentford and some excellent and some mixed.
We have for far too long not won unless we were excellent. A steady hoovering of wins needs to supplement that.
Let's make sure we win the next two.
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Onomah needs to replace Whelan. Josh must be pissed off watching a snail!!
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
Davis was good!
Kodjia erratic but dangerous at his best
Whelan irritates me with his decision taking.
Do you mean "good" for a 19 year old who hasn't played much first team football"? I could see why people might give him the benefit of the doubt based on that.
It's early days, but he needs to do more for me.
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Whelan was a walking corpse.
I thought he was our best player first half. Second half I agree with you. He's playing far too many games and being asked to do far more than should be expected.
Overall, I thought be were going to get slaughtered having watched the first 15 minutes but the goal changed everything and we looked far better for the rest of the half. Second half we rode our luck, we were scruffy, constantly giving the ball away, no plan again but we won, exactly the type of half I expected when we appointed Bruce.
Thought Forest looked well drilled and organised but they're always going to limited due to their lack of funds.
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I would blame Bruce for a loss so I am happy to give him credit for the win. I dont like giving away that much possession at home though and that was his choice. But hey, good win.
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We won but it's all just a bit meh and boring. You can tell by the crowd, 1-0 up and you could have heard a pin drop. It's not the kind of football that's going to get fans off their seats and roaring encouragement.
Forest were absolutely dreadful but we still let them back into the game. From the off we make it so easy for the away team, we're slow and laboured and let them dictate the tempo with no pressure on the ball. Again this isn't something that gets the fans going. We need to be on the front foot and make them shit themselves in a big ground, not let them stroke the ball about at their leisure. Luckily they did nothing with the ball but give that much time and possession to a decent side and they'll punish us.
Whelan is garbage. He can't run and couldn't pass water.
Snodgrass doesn't look fit and looks like he's running in treacle.
Should win the next two and then we will be on a decent run for once going into tougher fixtures in October. Must improve though.
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
Davis was good!
Kodjia erratic but dangerous at his best
Whelan irritates me with his decision taking.
Do you mean "good" for a 19 year old who hasn't played much first team football"? I could see why people might give him the benefit of the doubt based on that.
It's early days, but he needs to do more for me.
Irrelevant of his age he held up plenty of ball, pointless tactic without runners around him mind, much the same as having two wingers who I'm not sure delivered a cross between them all game
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Sat far too deep again...isolated the front two. Hourihane had barely been in the game prior to his free kick. BUt i guess this is the Bruce way and it won't change. Sitting back and hitting them on the break at home is not the way forward imo but a wins a win. Thought Kodija, whilst frustrating at times was good and is the one player that can make things happen out of nothing. Davis was very good when we have men supporting him and running past him...sitting back leaves him too much to do.
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Kodjia was lazy today ??????
For fucks sake!
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Love the result, hate the football. That'll do as a minimum.
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The Manager has just confirmed that Ross McCaramac is off to Melbourne on loan.
Any further and the fecker would be on his way back!
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Win is a win - hopefully that is Kodjia a long way from fitness because he was lazy for me, if he had showed a 10th of the work rate of adomah, Davis & Snodgrass we'd have been out of sight.
Great assist for Adomah goal mind :-)
It's funny how we see the game so differently.
I thought Kodija, whilst not back to 100%, was one of our best players.
Whelan, Snodgrass, and Onomah were poor.
Davis needs to do more for me. At the moment he 'flatters to deceive'.
Davis was good!
Kodjia erratic but dangerous at his best
Whelan irritates me with his decision taking.
Do you mean "good" for a 19 year old who hasn't played much first team football"? I could see why people might give him the benefit of the doubt based on that.
It's early days, but he needs to do more for me.
Irrelevant of his age he held up plenty of ball, pointless tactic without runners around him mind, much the same as having two wingers who I'm not sure delivered a cross between them all game
He also lost some headers he should have won, let the ball bounce off him too much, gave away silly free kicks, and fell over too easily.
He's young so he gets cut some slack for a while yet. But, to be a regular, he needs to do more for me.
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How poor was Neil Taylor today he's not comfy on the ball
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How poor was Neil Taylor today he's not comfy on the ball
The player most comfy on the ball is John Terry. He plays more forward passes and is quicker on the ball than Whelan.
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Snoddy was a liability today equally useless in attacking and defending.
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That's right and grim at the same time. Someone who can win the ball and play a quick forward pass is sorely missed.
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Did we score with our only second half shot?
I don’t recall another effort in the second 45 minutes.
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Hourihane hit one with his right foot that went for a throw in
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Two wins in two, weren't the better side in either of them really, but hey technically speaking we've fucked them, so, YES.
I know Barnsley have more posession but come on they hardly had a shot last week until they were 3 down.
I'm happy enough with that. Forest are a tricky team and that is a good example of the sort of game we were incapable of winning last season.
Starting to get momentum for a top 6 challenge. We're still way off top 2 target though. Put it bluntly there are better teams at this level than us once the whistle goes so we need to improve much more.
At least there's better balance in the final third. Pace of Adomah and Snodgrass has added guile. Whisper it quietly but Hourihane is starting to become very influential like he was at his previous clubs so there are actually positives if people can divert away from the anti-Bruce agenda for five minutes.
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Three points, all that matters. Beer on train back to Cymru, off to Burton on Tuesday. Then Bolton, top six, here we go!
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Odd game. We looked good going forward now and again but mostly pretty disjointed and shite. Forest were no better.
Would love to know what they do all week in BMH ? Answers on a postcard.....
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Better.
Thought we were on the front foot more than Forest in the first half - even if they did see more of the ball.
Felt like we had more intent.
A bit patchy second half, but aside from SJ's save in the last 10 minutes, I don't think Forest offered a whole lot.
We showed good game management in the four minutes + injury time. Playing most of the Football in Forest's half.
If we had turned in a few more performances like today and Barnsley over the last 12 months, the speculation about Bruce's job wouldn't be so intense. That's on him though, as he has served up rubbish, for the most part.
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Agreed.
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Crazy stat on sky today: of the 2-2 game a year ago, the number of players who started both games?
1 for Villa and 1 for Forest
Edit- actually I make it two for us - Kodjia and Chester. But still
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Better.
Thought we were on the front foot more than Forest in the first half - even if they did see more of the ball.
Felt like we had more intent.
A bit patchy second half, but aside from SJ's save in the last 10 minutes, I don't think Forest offered a whole lot.
We showed good game management in the four minutes + injury time. Playing most of the Football in Forest's half.
If we had turned in a few more performances like today and Barnsley over the last 12 months, the speculation about Bruce's job wouldn't be so intense. That's on him though, as he has served up rubbish, for the most part.
Add the one that just skipped past the post off the back of his foot as well, that one was a bit of an extra life for me.
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Forest never really looked like scoring apart from a 5 minute spell where they could easily have had three: the goal, that shot Johnstone saves with his feet, and a free header
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Why are we so flat at the start of every second half?
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Its not nice watching us at all, even when we win i'm a bit bored.
Kodjia seems to be dividing opinion on this game, I thought he looked lively and a constant menace, his ball for Adomahs goal was excellent.
My biggest issue was Elohamady, that bloke with the dreads constantly skinned him or got in behind him in the second half, his positioning was scary.
Still a wins a win and all that, should be looking at 6 from the next two and setting us up in some good form, results wise, for the Wolves game.
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A bit shambolick at times but we won so......👍😀
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I thought once we got in front we could easily have put the game to bed by half time. Forest were always bound to be not quite as poor in the second half. Even so, to the extent they had chances these largely arose from our mistakes rather than anything much they did. Over the 90 minutes we deserved to win.
I thought Matt Mills was fortunate to still be on the pitch by the end and very lucky not to get booked until the 89th minute.
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Why are we so flat at the start of every second half?
That is definitely a pattern - and we concede a lot in that spell. This doesn't reflect well on Bruce and he needs to sort it
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Just home. I will take scratchy wins all day long. Three things. We have to put our chances away, not squander them. I am underwhelmed by Snodgrass. If that had been Chelsea in the 20 minutes after half time Terry would have e been going mental at the defence. He wants to be nice. We want/need Mr Nasty.
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played with three wingers and did we get a decent delivery in?
Snodgrass couldn't find a Villa shirt and his tackling prowess is weaker than Lansbury and that's something.
I couldn't understand taking Davis off, he was giving Mills a tough time and then Kodjia ?
I would have replaced Whelan with Onomah.
Not sure what Elmohamedy was giving us.....Hutton actually got in a couple of convincing tackles.
I thought we are easily bullied out when we have so many players who pretend to tackle rather than do the real thing.
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Forest are lucky Terry doesnt dive or go down easy. His shirt was pulled badly in the box the first half. Could have got a penalty if he had gone down.
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Need to hold onto the ball better to have long term success, but good to win.
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How poor was Neil Taylor today he's not comfy on the ball
The player most comfy on the ball is John Terry. He plays more forward passes and is quicker on the ball than Whelan.
You like the most racist of our players? Quelle surprise!
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Where did he say that ??
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Anybody who uses the word "comfy" should be barred by the moderators. How hard is it to write comfortable?
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He was making an observation. Was there really any need for that on this thread?
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It's a fact John terry head and tails above anyone else in the team like his persona or not
If you start judging players by their lifestyle then you would end up with a squad of Ashley Westwoods
And Neil Taylor on the back of Barnsley away and today would struggle to get into a Sunday league team. Can only tell you as it is on the tin
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Terry hardly says a word during the game, unlike his chelsea days. That said he can pass a ball and rarely gives possession away.
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Anybody who uses the word "comfy" should be barred by the moderators. How hard is it to write comfortable?
Anyone who uses the words "should be barred" etc etc..
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If you mean me Lee, I will always defend the English language. Like BE does.
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Better.
Thought we were on the front foot more than Forest in the first half - even if they did see more of the ball.
Felt like we had more intent.
A bit patchy second half, but aside from SJ's save in the last 10 minutes, I don't think Forest offered a whole lot.
We showed good game management in the four minutes + injury time. Playing most of the Football in Forest's half.
If we had turned in a few more performances like today and Barnsley over the last 12 months, the speculation about Bruce's job wouldn't be so intense. That's on him though, as he has served up rubbish, for the most part.
Absolutely.
Think we look a solid outfit with threat, and that threat will increase as they play together.
I think we've got a chance, which I didn't a few weeks back after Cardiff.
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Terry hardly says a word during the game, unlike his chelsea days. That said he can pass a ball and rarely gives possession away.
It's too easy for him he could without any pressure still play for a top team in the premiership
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Terry hardly says a word during the game, unlike his chelsea days. That said he can pass a ball and rarely gives possession away.
It's too easy for him he could without any pressure still play for a top team in the premiership
Thought he was talking all through the game today, might not have been screaming but saw him with Taylor, Snodgrass and Kodjia directing....what I don't see is him refereeing the games like he did at Chelsea
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36% possession, if we don't learn to to hold onto the ball better we are going to struggle to win consistently, a better side than Forest would have made us pay today. Saving grace for Bruce is there isn't much quality down here to take advantage of the fact we're not really a very good side, we just have very good individuals who keep saving us.
exactly this. we are relying heavily on a couple of quality players and fortunate that the opposition are worse than us. happy with result but can't see how this is sustainable
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Good win, but I have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed by it.
Forest passed the ball for fun for the entire game. We generally give it away in seconds or when we can't pass it anymore and just hoof it forward. We were fortunate Forest didn't really have much cutting edge.
On the plus side, Sam Johnstone again, Terry again, and certainly Bert on the wing. Great free kick from CH, although everything he did during the game seemed to go sideways and backwards. Good to see Kodjia get another 80 minutes too, lovely through ball for the first goal as well.
On the minus side, Snodgrass - I'm not sure exactly what he offers apart from jumping out of any tackle that might hurt him. Whelan - the turtle carrying weights.
I still look at that side on paper and say it's more than good enough for the top two. Then I watch the game unfold and think we'll be fortunate to make the play offs. If we can't control games we'll struggle more often than not.
Still, Sally can wait, and that's a good thing.
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By playing 4-4-2 , when we come up against teams with 5 midfielders we are going to surrender alot of possession especially when you have 2 cms who have little pace and and specifically in Whelans case just play simple balls sideways or backwards.
Whelan for me was hopeless in the 2nd half gave the ball away and just doesn't influence game .Mentioned we didn't get many cross's in well thats what happens when you play wingers who on opposites sides to their strongest foot.Never are going to go to the byline to cross they are always looking to check inside
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Passes the ball for fun...in their own half and square. Yet another side who are utterly toothless in possession. All the penetration of a damp wheatabix.
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We won, I thought we looked half decent and I thought we were the better team. Back in the day you wouldn't even have a clue what the possession percentage was but these days it is used as a stick to beat a team with even when they have won.
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He was making an observation. Was there really any need for that on this thread?
Not saying it's right but Brighton fans have chants aimed at them every week and nothing is said or done. Now two women have complained about a few chants and it's in the press. It may have all been light hearted for all we know. It's a football match and banter occurs, people get called fat bastard or ginger bastard etc all the time.
As for the Lukaku chant, there's nothing wrong with it and isn't racist in the slightest. Just people trying to make something of nothing yet again and PC gone mad in this country.
He will always need to be called out until he retracts this fucking abomination.
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Ffs, what on earth is this? Get a grip of yourself
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Ffs, what on earth is this? Get a grip of yourself
He should indeed.
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Good win. Scrappy game. The sort settled by something a bit special, thanks Hourihane for that. He is becoming a very handy one to have around, and that should be the last we see of Snodgrass over a free kick!
Whelan. Just fucking why. We have to address the Whelan/ Jedinak position with someone who is younger, more athletic, can actually pass and does not move at the pace of a mart kart on its last legs. He was fucking awful today. Imagine dropping Gueye back in now alongside Hourihane. Or Delph.
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Good win. Scrappy game. The sort settled by something a bit special, thanks Hourihane for that. He is becoming a very handy one to have around, and that should be the last we see of Snodgrass over a free kick!
Whelan. Just fucking why. We have to address the Whelan/ Jedinak position with someone who is younger, more athletic, can actually pass and does not move at the pace of a mart kart on its last legs. He was fucking awful today. Imagine dropping Gueye back in now alongside Hourihane. Or Delph.
Or Onomah, rather than asking him to be Teddy Sheringham.
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It's 6 undefeated in the league. One goal conceded in almost 7 hours of football.
It's not pretty, but it seems to be getting more effective. I'll not complain at another win. If we keep this up we'll do okay but it does look precarious.
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Nice 3 points. Just watching old Villa games on YouTube and saw the defenders for the line up for the League Cup Final in 96.
Ehiogu McGrath and Southgate.
Them were the days.
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Good win. Scrappy game. The sort settled by something a bit special, thanks Hourihane for that. He is becoming a very handy one to have around, and that should be the last we see of Snodgrass over a free kick!
Whelan. Just fucking why. We have to address the Whelan/ Jedinak position with someone who is younger, more athletic, can actually pass and does not move at the pace of a mart kart on its last legs. He was fucking awful today. Imagine dropping Gueye back in now alongside Hourihane. Or Delph.
Or Onomah, rather than asking him to be Teddy Sheringham.
I agree. Rudy Can't Fail mentioned in a previous thread how Onomah's best performances for England were in more of a holding role. He's got the energy to do it, and is a damn good passer of the ball.
A win is a win, and when we play properly, we look a threat. I just wish the potato wasn't so terrified of losing.
Onwards and upwards.
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Surprised this thread seems a bit down given it feels to me - quite possibly delusional - that we've turned a corner. We're never going to play silky football under Bruce (and we've not done so for the best part of a decade) but if he gets results this relationship works, for now.
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Surprised this thread seems a bit down given it feels to me - quite possibly delusional - that we've turned a corner. We're never going to play silky football under Bruce (and we've not done so for the best part of a decade) but if he gets results this relationship works, for now.
It does work, Matt, you're right. But I noticed the 'for now', at the end of your post, and I agree with that, too.
It's evident that the pressure has got to Bruce a bit, and in a way, I'm glad. It might be the catalyst to spur him on and prove people wrong, if you like. Fans want to see some dominant, 90 minute performances, which with our squad in this league, should happen regularly.
He's never going to help himself by bringing on or starting Hutton, Agbonlahor, Richards, Samba or Elphick because everyone knows they aren't very good. But he persists in doing so. He can't resist sly digs at people who don't like seeing such players or bland performances. He also can't resist playing players like Elmohamady in their wrong position, after spending decent money on people like Bree, who is a natural right back.
Until he gets the basics in place, it's going to be difficult to play what he calls 'expansive football'. He could do if he wasn't such a dinosaur, and in my opinion he's made a rod for his own back.
Good luck to him, and I'll tolerate him if we keep winning. But in the future, if the Premier League beckons again, he's going to have to deal with absolute fury playing in such a way. And he'll be sacked unless he learns.
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For me Kodjia was the difference between winning and probably drawing yesterday. Elmo is total gash, Whelan can only play for 45 minutes and at some point you can put your mortgage on us suffering collective narcolepsy in defense.
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Hurry up and get fit Mile Jedinak! Whelan is hopeless! Drop him for the Burton game on Tuesday. Need a younger, more dynamic midfielder in that position. Put Onomah in if Mile is still unfit. Need Jack fit as soon as possible as well!
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Didn’t see or hear anything of the match. Doesn’t sound like the most impressive display from the comments, but a win is a win and at this stage is sll that really matters. Better comments from Bruce after the game too.
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Hurry up and get fit Mile Jedinak! Whelan is hopeless! Drop him for the Burton game on Tuesday. Need a younger, more dynamic midfielder in that position. Put Onomah in if Mile is still unfit. Need Jack fit as soon as possible as well!
I think he'll play v Burton but maybe not v Bolton
This is still the problem position, especially in a 442. I don't think Jedinak can do that either
Might need Lansbury and hourihane to play together, both as a number 6
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If you mean me Lee, I will always defend the English language. Like BE does.
No. 2 posts above yours.
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I'm hoping winning ugly will lead to improved confidence which will then lead to winning well. The problem is we were winning ugly last season and then had a meltdown so I'm not holding my breath, however I think we have better and more experienced players now so I don't anticipate any meltdowns. I think the worst case scenario this season will to continue winning ugly tempered with narrow defeats, but it could be worse, we could be Sunderland fans and probably wishing we had Bruce back!
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Good to win ......
BUT thought Bruce was trying to give the game away with his changes ...he is simply to negative
442 is working but he changes it to 451 first and then changes again bringing Hogan on as a lone striker
Hogan will never be a lone striker and Bruce is killing any confidence he may have
The changes meant we simply went deeper and deeper and allowed Forest to come at us more and more
Get back to 442 at Burton but knowing Bruce he will change formation again and do a Bristol mess up
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I thought Davis was giving Mills a real physical tussle, so much so that Mills' first challenge on a slighter Hogan sent him flying and earned himself a booking.
Davis was the only player to be prepared to dish it out for me.We are still too easily bullied out of games.
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I'm hoping winning ugly will lead to improved confidence which will then lead to winning well. The problem is we were winning ugly last season and then had a meltdown so I'm not holding my breath, however I think we have better and more experienced players now so I don't anticipate any meltdowns. I think the worst case scenario this season will to continue winning ugly tempered with narrow defeats, but it could be worse, we could be Sunderland fans and probably wishing we had Bruce back!
I don't see it getting any better, just like last season as you mention.
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A decent and comfy enough first half but pretty poor in the second. It seemed like we came out believing the game was won and all we needed was another goal to kill it off, which was really disappointing. Still, it's another 3 points and hopefully the confidence will continue to grow as we pick up more wins.
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their No 6 was constantly slaughtering Elmo - looked useful.
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It wasn't pretty but it was certainly effective, Bruce can claim to have won both the game and the tactical battle. We surrendered territory and possession but Forest did very little when they advanced into our third and seemed to give the ball away whenever we pressed them. We simply made fewer mistakes than they did but we could have made it a lot more comfortable for ourselves had we been more clinical.
A few things could have been far better, the midfield seemed to disappear second half and we created very little, Whelan had a day to forget. The two strikers played well in patches individually but didn't seem a threatening partnership, the movement from both of them didn't offer enough of a pass to feet for the midfielders.
An acceptable but unimaginative performance, the type of Bruce win I thought we'd see more of.
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Elmo is total gash
I actually thought he was very effective first half, not so great second.
If we are going to play two central midfielders I think we need to try the Spurs lad as one of them, neither Whelan or Mile have the legs or the passing ability and Houlihan is a little lightweight.
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Elmo is total gash
I actually thought he was very effective first half, not so great second.
If we are going to play two central midfielders I think we need to try the Spurs lad as one of them, neither Whelan or Mile have the legs or the passing ability and Houlihan is a little lightweight.
We needed Onomah on yesterday a bit earlier than he was. I thought Bruce buggered up bringing off Davis. I'd have brought off Snodgrass, played Adomah on the right and slotted Onomah in the middle.
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That said when he did come on nothing went right for him.
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Good result decent performance. We're getting there I think. But why do some of us feel the need for a scapegoat? Right now Whelan is just the type of scrapper we need in the middle of the park and he's doing the job he's been brought in to do.
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We were clearly the better side in my eyes and should have gone into half time further ahead. BUT, the 20 minutes after half time had me wondering what Bruce says to them during the break. We were bloody awful. Fortunately the goal put us back on track and Villa weren't really troubled for the rest of the game even if the fans felt the tension.
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The Onomah sub made a lot of sense. He was poor though
I'm sure it will be back to 442 v Burton
But not sure we can play that way every game. We can't spend so much time without the ball
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Good result decent performance. We're getting there I think. But why do some of us feel the need for a scapegoat? Right now Whelan is just the type of scrapper we need in the middle of the park and he's doing the job he's been brought in to do.
Whelan had a bit of a mare giving the ball away in the second half but in the first half I thought he did his job and as you say we do need someone in that role. He played one cracking pass to Adomah.
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Good result decent performance. We're getting there I think. But why do some of us feel the need for a scapegoat? Right now Whelan is just the type of scrapper we need in the middle of the park and he's doing the job he's been brought in to do.
I like him but he was poor yesterday.
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The Onomah sub made a lot of sense. He was poor though
I'm sure it will be back to 442 v Burton
But not sure we can play that way every game. We can't spend so much time without the ball
Agree on all points. If we were a great counter attacking side we could probably live with less than 40% possession however we are not so we need to get at least 50/50 in most matches to make it a little easier for us.
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Something not mentioned. Snodgrass very lucky not to get a straight red in 1st half. Pretty deliberate and sly elbow on traore. All the forest bench saw it. The ref only saw Snodgrass offer his apology to player so let him off.
As others have said
Great win
Poor performance
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Good result decent performance. We're getting there I think. But why do some of us feel the need for a scapegoat? Right now Whelan is just the type of scrapper we need in the middle of the park and he's doing the job he's been brought in to do.
Except he is not a scrapper more of a picker upper of left overs if he get there before everyone else.
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perhaps Brucie's HT team talk is so soporific they actually nod off
they certainly play like they've just woken up
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On reflection despite making it hard for ourselves we look to have much better shape and understanding of our roles than previously and we look a more cohesive team. Despite needlessly conceding possession and territory our shape gave us much better resilience. I felt we pressed well at the start of the game and that lessened as the game wore on.
Scores
Johnstone 7 - did what was required but needs to work on his kicking
Elmo 7 - very solid but occasionally communication with Snoddy at fault.
Chester 7 - solid but looks nervous on the ball
Terry 7.5 - poor challenge for their goal but starting to look a cut above
Taylor 7 - Solid
Whelan 6 - gave the ball away far too much but was positionally disciplined which got us out of a hole on numerous occasions
Hourihane 7.5 - is learning the discipline required in this formation and less prone to go walkabout, very impressed
Snodgrass 6 - very poor, blind alleys, losing possession cheaply was out on his feet by 70 mins.
Adomah 8 - was on fire 1st half and very disciplined 2nd half keep it up Albert
Kodjia 7 - in effect assisted both goals has the X factor this formation, team and club need, drifted in and out but when he’s fit....
Davis 7 - good solid play from young Keinan, learning his role and putting in a shift, prob needs to show more for the ball on occasion.
Bruce 6.5 - Better, needs to stop the tendency to let the team shrink back and improve the possession stats but he’s made some decisions in recent weeks that have led to us having much better shape and resilience.
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their No 6 was constantly slaughtering Elmo - looked useful.
He was in their midfield last season when we played them and at left back yesterday looked better than Taylor.
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Just me who thought Terry should've done better for the goal?
Surprised how easily Murphy held him off and then turned. Think that is what surprised Chester aswell as he just stood still and allowed the shot to come in.
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I think although Terry should have been a bit stronger with Murphy, he probably wasn't expecting Whelan's shins to present the ball on a plate for him.
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Passes the ball for fun...in their own half and square. Yet another side who are utterly toothless in possession. All the penetration of a damp wheatabix.
Trouble is we'll then go away to a Reading or Fulham who do value possession, lose the game comfortably and then have 10 pages thread on here on where it's going wrong.
You can win games with sub 40 percentage possession, we did yesterday, probably many times this season and also did it a few times under Lambert (that Southampton away game the best example).
Can you actually get promoted from this league without being a front foot, dominant team home and away. I'm not sure really. I'd be amazed if this approach is good enough for top 2 anyway.
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their No 6 was constantly slaughtering Elmo - looked useful.
He was in their midfield last season when we played them and at left back yesterday looked better than Taylor.
Armand Traore. Started off at Arsenal but hasn't done much with his career since and seems to have settled to being a well paid championship player.
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They had more possession we made better us of ours. They play a lot of neat football around the half way line but other than the period after half time I thought we mostly picked them off as soon as they advanced further. Of course I would love to see a more adventurous style but first and foremost I want us to win. A good chance now for another 2 wins this week which would likely see us in the top 6.
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Passes the ball for fun...in their own half and square. Yet another side who are utterly toothless in possession. All the penetration of a damp wheatabix.
There's a lot of teams like that in this division.
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Passes the ball for fun...in their own half and square. Yet another side who are utterly toothless in possession. All the penetration of a damp wheatabix.
There's a lot of teams like that in this division.
It works against us on their home grounds.
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The absolute top teams in the division need both possession through keeping/passing and penetration. So I am hoping by January February we are doing that otherwise we will hang around 8th, 9th, 10th.
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The absolute top teams in the division need both possession through keeping/passing and penetration. So I am hoping by January February we are doing that otherwise we will hang around 8th, 9th, 10th.
I think playing like we are will be plenty good enough for the top 6 but we need a bit extra for automatic promotion.
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Just me who thought Terry should've done better for the goal?
Surprised how easily Murphy held him off and then turned. Think that is what surprised Chester aswell as he just stood still and allowed the shot to come in.
Going on the highlights Murphy seemed to bully our centre halves. Walked through them for the goal but had other great chances.
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Pleased with the win, but we've only papered over some pretty big cracks. For me, there is not enough pace and movement in the midfield and the defence is starting to worry me as well. The quality we do have in Adomah, Kodja and Horihane's left foot, won us the game.
That said, there seems to be a good team spirit and we have improved from the early slump.
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Just me who thought Terry should've done better for the goal?
Surprised how easily Murphy held him off and then turned. Think that is what surprised Chester aswell as he just stood still and allowed the shot to come in.
Going on the highlights Murphy seemed to bully our centre halves. Walked through them for the goal but had other great chances.
Not quite, Whelan played the perfect through ball to Murphy!
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Just me who thought Terry should've done better for the goal?
Surprised how easily Murphy held him off and then turned. Think that is what surprised Chester aswell as he just stood still and allowed the shot to come in.
Going on the highlights Murphy seemed to bully our centre halves. Walked through them for the goal but had other great chances.
Sorry what other great chances? Watching it at VP yesterday I thought he was the biggest donkey in their team.
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Just me who thought Terry should've done better for the goal?
Surprised how easily Murphy held him off and then turned. Think that is what surprised Chester aswell as he just stood still and allowed the shot to come in.
Going on the highlights Murphy seemed to bully our centre halves. Walked through them for the goal but had other great chances.
Sorry what other great chances? Watching it at VP yesterday I thought he was the biggest donkey in their team.
He is a good striker at this level.
50 goals in 127 games for Ipswich
Has 5 in 9 for Forest.
I wouldn't have had an issue with us signing him as a cheapo targetman option before the emergence of Davis.
With the way we play he'd have been a much better value signing than Hogan anyway.
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They had more possession we made better us of ours. They play a lot of neat football around the half way line but other than the period after half time I thought we mostly picked them off as soon as they advanced further. Of course I would love to see a more adventurous style but first and foremost I want us to win. A good chance now for another 2 wins this week which would likely see us in the top 6.
Agree with this Chris. Forest made the game dull at times with this non threatening possession football from one side of the pitch to the other.
They must have passed it in their own half 150+ times. The game would have been better for both sides if they'd tried to hit their striker earlier but I think we'd have probably found more space and created more opportunities if they'd done that.
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Whilst a win is always welcome the performance was little better than the Brentford game. I went with a mate who is a Leeds fan and we both found much of the game boring. I can't understand why we are not going for the throat at home, especially when we are a goal to the good. We just cede possession and impetus way too frequently. We only won because of two moments of rare quality amongst the general mediocrity. I don't think we deserved to win that to be honest, but I'll take it.
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Forest had us camped in our own half before we scored. At that point I thought we were being dominated but the goal opened up the game and we played the better football, creating chances to increase the lead. Second half we were poor and I couldn't see how we were going to get another. We forced Forest to start their attacks from their keeper and full backs which must have drained them having to start all over again from scratch.
It was three important points, an ugly win but we are at least climbing the table. There's not a great deal of comfort to take from the performance and still tonnes of work to do at Bodymoor Heath. My fear is we'll be good enough to reach the play offs but not for promotion.
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I'm really pleased with the three points we need to continue the momentum on too Burton and get another win we are within touching distance of the playoffs lets keep getting these wins I thought Kodija played well he had a hand in both of our goals when he gets back to full fitness he will score lots of goals again.
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Guessing it's already been said but Snodgrass, smaller nads than Downing!?
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I'd say we just about edged that and took our two chances very well. When you've had the start to the season we've had its just important to get over the line in these games and worry about how later. My main concern from yesterday is the sloppy mistakes and how light we still look in the middle of the park. But progress is being made. Lets hope don't do a classic Villa and drop silly points against Burton and Bolton :-X
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Made a point of watching whelan the whole match. He's had a lot of negative press over here about his position in the republic squad. Quite right too he was terrible.
For every decent positive through ball he made I'd say there were 4/5 wayward, backward and mistimed balls. He doesn't tackle but he seems to have the westwood pointy finger thing going on.
He is an average squad player at most.
Hourihane did very well and is starting to become a handy player for us.
Snodgrass was good going forward, total crap at tracking back.
Overall a C+ must try harder.
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Before kick off I was thinking that we should be walking this league with that line up. The first 45 minutes backed that thought up, we didn't create that many chances but Forest didn't seem to have a goal in them. They reminded me of one of Lambert's phases, plenty of possession in their own half with the occasional cock up giving us a chance. Second half was Hull like, a game we looked like winning easily but might lose. I came away still doubting this manager can get us up. Our two goals involved Kodja's creativity out of nothing which was our get out of jail card last year. I just wish we would press the opposition when they have possession but that doesn't appear to be the Bruce way.
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I think Steve says sit tight and hope something happens. Over a season that will bring plenty of points. But ffs how crap is our style? If the other team gets ahead we are screwed
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I wish we could have some possession to kill off games
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My 1st home match this season. Had a great pre-match drink at the Barton's. 1st half very good, second half pressed back not helped by change in formation with Snodgrass and Adomah playing deeper. Very good performances by Chester, Hourihane, Adomah, Kodjia and Davis. Johnstone did what he had to. Elmo and Whelan had a good 1st half and indifferent second. Taylor was okay. Snodgrass looked off the pace throughout and should have been substituted 1st. Terry only became our best defender after our 2nd goal when he became far more dominant. Maybe this is why he is at our club; to help us see out games. In my view Bruce still has it all to do! I was sat 8 rows behind Bruce yesterday and his level of obvious panic (along with his coaches) with the way the 2nd half was progressing and his substitutions was a little concerning. I'm sure it doesn't send a positive message to his players as it didn't to me! I love the fact that DLBIA the Villa say continues to be played at the end of winning home matches. UTV!
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BUT, the 20 minutes after half time had me wondering what Bruce says to them during the break. We were bloody awful.
I don't think it's Bruce half time team talk, I don't think he gives one, other than go out keep it tight and we'll be ok. However I think the opposing manager makes changes and Bruce is like a rabbit in headlights trying to figure out what has changed, whilst the opposition are playing with the freedom of the park.
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I am a little confused about one thing. Teams changed end at the start and I naturally assumed Forest won the toss and elected to defend Holte End as some teams tend to do however Forest also kicked off?? Any observations?
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I wondered the same thing . I think it has happened in a previous home game this season.
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The biggest concern is that we rely on Kodjia too much.
We struggled without him in the first games of this season. Yesterday he had a hand in both goals, a great through ball for Adomah to score, and his running at goal that drew the foul for Hourihanes free kick.
If he remains fit, great, if not we will struggle again. Kodjia glosses over the shortcomings of a Bruce team.
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I am a little confused about one thing. Teams changed end at the start and I naturally assumed Forest won the toss and elected to defend Holte End as some teams tend to do however Forest also kicked off?? Any observations?
It's possible that Villa won the toss and elected to defend the Witton first half, rare these days I know but, when I was young I remember them always doing that.
The laws always stated that the team winning the toss prior to kick-off had a choice of ends or kick-off but not both.
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Cheers. So It was our choice to attack Holte End in the first half.
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I am a little confused about one thing. Teams changed end at the start and I naturally assumed Forest won the toss and elected to defend Holte End as some teams tend to do however Forest also kicked off?? Any observations?
Evidently it's a Terry thing, doesn't like attacking Holte in 2nd half, possibly left over from Chelsea days, that's what I was told when I asked
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The biggest concern is that we rely on Kodjia too much.
We struggled without him in the first games of this season. Yesterday he had a hand in both goals, a great through ball for Adomah to score, and his running at goal that drew the foul for Hourihanes free kick.
If he remains fit, great, if not we will struggle again. Kodjia glosses over the shortcomings of a Bruce team.
Not only do we rely too much on Kodja but even with him in the side we could still do with another different kind of striker to work off him and support him. I think we need a target man who can also score at least ten goals a season.
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The biggest concern is that we rely on Kodjia too much.
We struggled without him in the first games of this season. Yesterday he had a hand in both goals, a great through ball for Adomah to score, and his running at goal that drew the foul for Hourihanes free kick.
If he remains fit, great, if not we will struggle again. Kodjia glosses over the shortcomings of a Bruce team.
Not only do we rely too much on Kodja but even with him in the side we could still do with another different kind of striker to work off him and support him. I think we need a target man who can also score at least ten goals a season.
I think we may have that guy already, Davis may well end up with more than 10 goals if we persevere with him