Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: UK Redsox on August 30, 2017, 08:31:04 PM
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For anyone with access to BT Sport, their rugby show tonight had an interesting segment with Wayne Barnes explaining the changes to the laws for the upcoming season.
Main changes......
Scrum Halves must put the ball in straight (ish) and the hooker must hook
No more kicking the ball forward in a ruck
Italy's non-committing to rucks and then loitering around the edges tactic has been banned
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Thanks for this, UKR. Useful.
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The scrum halves are never going to put the balk in straight!!
I also liked the rules/laws about keeping the ball in play rather than playing for line outs.
Saracens for the double but I'm hoping Wasps can go one step further this season.
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Lots of interesting squad changes this season. Most of them are largely like-for-like (Leicester have sign May but lost Pietersen and have swapped Burns for Ford for example).
Irish look a much stronger squad than Bristol and Newcastle have bought really well so the bottom of the table might be more interesting this year, I worry for Worcester because they don't seem to have improved their quality massively despite a very busy summer.
Wasps will miss Beale, he gave them a spark of brilliance and Frank Halai is a good player out the door as well but they have added Marcus Watson who I like (and his 7s time has made him a much more complete winger than many).
Sarries are, for me, weaker than they were last season because they lost some good players to retirement and Ashton, for all his problems, was a key player for them for a few years. Liam Williams is a good signing though and they have added some depth around the squad.
Exeter didn't do much and didn't need to do much but again they've lost a few that they'll be upset about.
Final one, I think Piers Francis could well be the most important signing of the summer. The work at Saints doesn't look that huge but when you add the 3-4 players they picked up during last season there's been a big change to the squad in the last year. Losing Picamoles will be a huge blow but their backs look much better now so if they can start making use of them now they have a proper playmaker at 10 then it could be a good season for them.
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Worcester will drop. They've searched all year for a decent fly half and are sitting on what they have, but their injury record is appalling. They have to rely on Te'o to get them anywhere near firing and their pre-season has been ropey too. Gary Gold will have a job on getting them to safety.
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Teo is too good for Worcester and he will be missing for a big part of the season with England. So if they relying on him then they are in for a long season.
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What I will say in defence of Worcester is that there was a huge improvement when Gold and the fitness coaches came in in the new year so we'll see if summer has improved it further. Agree about 10 though, no depth
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The Gloucester squad has been getting weaker by the week. They won't go at all well this year. And the ticket prices are fucking horrific as well.
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The Gloucester squad has been getting weaker by the week. They won't go at all well this year. And the ticket prices are fucking horrific as well.
They're doing fine tonight, chiefs have had more ball but the glaws defence has handled them pretty well and they have taken points when they've got to the 22.
Newcastle are on top against Worcester as expected.
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Brilliant win for Glaws at home to the chiefs, was a great game and both teams looked like they'd given everything towards the end.
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Worcester got mullered in the end. Just Wasps at home next.
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Brilliant win for Glaws at home to the chiefs, was a great game and both teams looked like they'd given everything towards the end.
Lots of Chiefs complaining about the officials and that the ball was input prior to the Gloucester winning try?
Shades of last seasons 27 - 27 draw at Sandy Park.
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What has the nickname 'Chiefs' got to do with Exeter?
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What has the nickname 'Chiefs' got to do with Exeter?
They were renamed in 99 to be the Exeter Chiefs, apparently it's a nod back to the 30s when most of the players in the 2 big teams down there were filled by an army base and they split into the officers joining the one and the rank and file joining the other side so they locally got called the chiefs and the braves.
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This is a shocking start to the season from saints, it's almost like they've never seen sarries play.
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Massive win for Sarries but saints had a shocking 20 minute spell before half time where they couldn't stop making mistakes and sarries capitalised on all of them.
2nd half was more what I expected from them and I still think they'll have a decent season but Mallinder is definitely not a 10 (which I thought already) because his game management just isn't good enough.
There's also Wasps v Sale which looked dead a few minutes ago but 2 quick tries has put Sale right back in the mix. 4 tries from Robson will hopefully force Jones to pay a bit more attention to him this season.
Next game sees Quins vs Irish with 18 year old Marcus Smith starting at 10 for Quins, he's supposed to be a massive talent for the next few years but he's apparently had a stunning pre-season and has forced his way into the team, Eddie Jones has already been praising him as well.
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Gloucester won't go down. Worcester will. I am not sure how much we can survive on the coach but he at least has them properly drilled and up for a scrap.
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I think Ackerman always comes across really well. He turned the Lions around and seems like the sort of coach you'd love to play for.
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He has a disconcertingly Saffer voice mind. One of those proper broad Graham Smith type ones.
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It feels a bit early for 18-19 season transfer news but Dan Biggar is joining Northampton next summer, very good signing that.
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It feels a bit early for 18-19 season transfer news but Dan Biggar is joining Northampton next summer, very good signing that.
Mallinder eulogizing over Biggar. He will be watching him from his armchair at this rate.
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Saints definitely needed an improvement in that position.
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Quins away tomorrow (at The Stoop rather than HQ for a change). Win that, and I will start to believe in Ackerman. At least he doesn't seem afraid to trust the kids.
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Worcester gave a lot in today's defeat to Wasps. Tighthead with a broken ankle, icepacks everywhere, and not even a losing BP to show for it. By the time they play a winnable game they could be a dozen points adrift.
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Worcester gave a lot in today's defeat to Wasps. Tighthead with a broken ankle, icepacks everywhere, and not even a losing BP to show for it. By the time they play a winnable game they could be a dozen points adrift.
Tough on them to not get a point but wasps scoring late tries is becoming pretty common so I don't think there will be a huge amount of shock about that. Worcester did well to be in the game for so long.
Overall it was an interesting weekend, Bath got a massive win to stop Sarries getting a losing bonus (Roko's first was a wonder try) and that was followed by a superb performance from the saints to comfortably beat Leicester.
Watson was brilliant against sarries and showed that he simply has to switch to 15 for England, his pace and foot work make him incredibly dangerous carrying the ball back but where he beats Brown is that he's got a brain and plays the simple passes well and rarely gets isolated. Whilst we're on England Hartley and Lawes were superb, the latter would be the first name in the team for me at the moment because he's become a fantastic ball carrier to go with all the defensive work and solid set piece work, him and Itoje can share 5 and 6 for now, with Kruis and Launchbury fighting over 4.
One other name to mention; I wonder if Tom Collins will get a serious look over the next few weeks, he was the a real bright spot for Saints in the first week and he was excellent again yesterday. He's similar to Nowell in that he's always off his wing looking for work so he's worth a look at as a backup for that role if he keeps this form up.
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One more name to add after the first 2 weeks, Sam Simmonds looks a phenomenal prospect, I suspect he'll be around the England squad for the Autumn as things stand, he's playing 8 for the chiefs but looks like an option across the back row for me.
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I agree with you on Watson at 15 Paul.
The only thing I'd say on that, is that I can ultimately see 15 being Elliot Daly's best position and I'd want both of them in the team as both have something special about them
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One more name to add after the first 2 weeks, Sam Simmonds looks a phenomenal prospect, I suspect he'll be around the England squad for the Autumn as things stand, he's playing 8 for the chiefs but looks like an option across the back row for me.
Exeter have phenomenal options across the back row.
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They won the league last year on the strength of their options at 6-10 and they've added to them again in the summer so I expect them to have another very good season.
I think this will be a good season, I reckon you've got 3 teams (Worcester, Irish and Sale) who won't be looking at the top 4 then there's another 3 (Gloucester, Quins and Newcastle) who will see that as a hard task but will be looking to qualify for the champions cup (top 6) and for the other 6 they'll be genuinely thinking they can win the title.
Even better most teams have the quality to absolutely smash anyone who isn't quite on their game (sarries and bath both dished out big defeats to 'big 6' teams in the first week). I suspect we might see a lot more high scoring games this year, Sarries have conceded 55 points already for example, that's a big change from last season where they were defensively dominant, Bath in particular showed exactly how to counter their rush defence and caused them huge problems all game.
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Early days for him in our team but I like Olly Thorley.
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Worcester gave a lot in today's defeat to Wasps. Tighthead with a broken ankle, icepacks everywhere, and not even a losing BP to show for it. By the time they play a winnable game they could be a dozen points adrift.
Game was lost with the replacements, Heathcote was ok if not high quality at 10 but when brought on Olver all control was lost & his kicking was Bosnich standard. Change in hooker & O'Callaghan at lock meant line out was gone also.
Need to find a quality 10 quick as we can't rely on Houggard showing up and saving the team 3 years running
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Great start from Collins again, looks so dangerous.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
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Suprisingly the BTSport cameras were not at Regentsholme tonight for Lydney 2nds v Newent 2nds.
An entertaining 39-14 win for Lyd.
However the fact that our second team was playing Newent 2nds just shows how far we've fallen.
I've played for Lydney 3rds against Newent's first team
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Tigers gave Glaws a bit of a kicking, mainly because of some awful basic errors, Ackerman will have been massively frustrated watching it.
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Watched Lyd 1sts today against Ivybridge in the South West Premier.
Lost 10-19 but that score flattered us, with a converted try coming in the last couple of minutes when Ivybridge were down to 14.
This is the lowest we've been since the leagues started and I can see us dropping another level this season.
The worst Lydney side of my lifetime.
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Next game sees Quins vs Irish with 18 year old Marcus Smith starting at 10 for Quins, he's supposed to be a massive talent for the next few years but he's apparently had a stunning pre-season and has forced his way into the team, Eddie Jones has already been praising him as well.
Named MOM in an impressive Quinns win away at wasps. I didn't notice his passing or breaks much but his kicking from hand was immaculate. He looks like an 18 year too. Incredible that he could not be physically intimidated.
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Just what's was the Marler Haskell incident all about?
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Next game sees Quins vs Irish with 18 year old Marcus Smith starting at 10 for Quins, he's supposed to be a massive talent for the next few years but he's apparently had a stunning pre-season and has forced his way into the team, Eddie Jones has already been praising him as well.
Named MOM in an impressive Quinns win away at wasps. I didn't notice his passing or breaks much but his kicking from hand was immaculate. He looks like an 18 year too. Incredible that he could not be physically intimidated.
His kicking and passing are fine but he's earned his reputation on his running game so I'd expect to start seeing more and more of that from him. I didn't see the game yesterday though so I'll try to catch the highlights later.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
Yeah, it's a great little ground, I used to live just round the corner from it.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
Yeah, it's a great little ground, I used to live just round the corner from it.
The fans' village is great. Real ale, decent grub, nice. Although the Saints plastic pint glass I had came emblazoned with, and I shit you not:
"Proud History, Bright Future!"
Even the egg chasing is trolling me now.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
Yeah, it's a great little ground, I used to live just round the corner from it.
I think Villa could learn something from the Saints here. The matchday experience takes in much more than the game itself. We always get the to the Saints ground (or the Stoop for that matter) in advance of the match whereas villa park is often a mad rush taxi from town at 20 minutes to kick off. Decent food and beer in the holte carpark stikes me a missed opportunity.
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
Yeah, it's a great little ground, I used to live just round the corner from it.
I think Villa could learn something from the Saints here. The matchday experience takes in much more than the game itself. We always get the to the Saints ground (or the Stoop for that matter) in advance of the match whereas villa park is often a mad rush taxi from town at 20 minutes to kick off. Decent food and beer in the holte carpark stikes me a missed opportunity.
The size of the ground plays a part there though. On top of that I'd guess there's a difference between the average rugby fan and the average football fan. On a forum like this one you'll find, mostly, people who would like the sort of stuff that they do at rugby grounds (ales, decent street food vendors, a few little rugby games/exhibitions) but how would that translate to a broader section of the support?
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Great win for Saints tonight, backs looked superb, back row and locks were excellent. Burrells best game for about 3 years.
I was at that, was a very good performance. The Saints ground is very nice as well.
Yeah, it's a great little ground, I used to live just round the corner from it.
I think Villa could learn something from the Saints here. The matchday experience takes in much more than the game itself. We always get the to the Saints ground (or the Stoop for that matter) in advance of the match whereas villa park is often a mad rush taxi from town at 20 minutes to kick off. Decent food and beer in the holte carpark stikes me a missed opportunity.
The size of the ground plays a part there though. On top of that I'd guess there's a difference between the average rugby fan and the average football fan. On a forum like this one you'll find, mostly, people who would like the sort of stuff that they do at rugby grounds (ales, decent street food vendors, a few little rugby games/exhibitions) but how would that translate to a broader section of the support?
I'd like to argue otherwise but you're probably right. It's a shame that football fans are not encouraged to mix as I think the actual separation leads to the posturing and mob mentality. Kebab van syndrome.
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Football crowds are definitely a lot more tribal than you see in Rugby Union or Cricket. Rugby League crowds are closer to football though, there could be some observations about social classes here I guess, not relevant now but the culture is embedded and 50-60 years ago there was a very clear divide between people who liked cricket and union and people who liked football and league. Why that translates to tirbal/mob behaviour is more complicated though.
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Football crowds are definitely a lot more tribal than you see in Rugby Union or Cricket. Rugby League crowds are closer to football though, there could be some observations about social classes here I guess, not relevant now but the culture is embedded and 50-60 years ago there was a very clear divide between people who liked cricket and union and people who liked football and league. Why that translates to tirbal/mob behaviour is more complicated though.
Yes, I went to a few Wigan RL games, and the rivalry between them and St Helens was pretty intense. Definitely no love lost there.
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Football crowds are definitely a lot more tribal than you see in Rugby Union or Cricket. Rugby League crowds are closer to football though, there could be some observations about social classes here I guess, not relevant now but the culture is embedded and 50-60 years ago there was a very clear divide between people who liked cricket and union and people who liked football and league. Why that translates to tirbal/mob behaviour is more complicated though.
Yes, I went to a few Wigan RL games, and the rivalry between them and St Helens was pretty intense. Definitely no love lost there.
I've been to a couple of games, Wakefield vs Castleford and Salford vs Hull, a rivalry in the first makes sense but the 2nd really shouldn't but it felt like a villa-baggies game. The first was an eye-opener, they really hated each other, I can best describe that it's how I imagine the rangers-celtic derby feels as a neutral, like everyone is watching and waiting to see if you side with one or the other so they've got a excuse to beat the crap out you.
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Football crowds are definitely a lot more tribal than you see in Rugby Union or Cricket. Rugby League crowds are closer to football though, there could be some observations about social classes here I guess, not relevant now but the culture is embedded and 50-60 years ago there was a very clear divide between people who liked cricket and union and people who liked football and league. Why that translates to tirbal/mob behaviour is more complicated though.
Yes, I went to a few Wigan RL games, and the rivalry between them and St Helens was pretty intense. Definitely no love lost there.
I've been to a couple of games, Wakefield vs Castleford and Salford vs Hull, a rivalry in the first makes sense but the 2nd really shouldn't but it felt like a villa-baggies game. The first was an eye-opener, they really hated each other, I can best describe that it's how I imagine the rangers-celtic derby feels as a neutral, like everyone is watching and waiting to see if you side with one or the other so they've got a excuse to beat the crap out you.
That's the thing with Rugby League, because it's traditionally a northern, very working class game, centred around 3 or 4 counties that are quite close to each other, there are no end of rivalries. You get the intense local games like the aforementioned Wigan v St Helens, and Wakefield v Cas, but then anything that involves Lancashire v Yorkshire can be tasty as well
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That was some try that Trinder created at the weekend.
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That was some try that Trinder created at the weekend.
Brilliant wasn't it, pretty much his first touch after coming on as a sub as well. If he could stay fit I still think he's potentially the best outside centre in the country, he makes everything look so easy.
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That was some try that Trinder created at the weekend.
Brilliant wasn't it, pretty much his first touch after coming on as a sub as well. If he could stay fit I still think he's potentially the best outside centre in the country, he makes everything look so easy.
Keeping the bugger fit would be good news all round.
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That was some try that Trinder created at the weekend.
Brilliant wasn't it, pretty much his first touch after coming on as a sub as well. If he could stay fit I still think he's potentially the best outside centre in the country, he makes everything look so easy.
Keeping the bugger fit would be good news all round.
Yep, he's very frustrating. I saw him play when he was about 15 and the next day I told a bunch of people that he was going to be a star and get 50+ caps for England at outside centre. Over the last few years I've had most of those people tell me that they can see why I was so impressed but almost inevitably he's then got himself injured and out for another few months. I really hope, for him, the club and for England, that he can get over that be become the player he promised to be.
Just for fun I searched for Trinder on this site and I reckon I've pushed him for England selection 4 times in the last 5 1/2 years, starting from:
I prefer Trinder at 13, I think he'll be fantastic in a couple of years, reminds me of Greenwood.
I stand by that comparison, he's got great soft hands, is quicker and stronger than he looks and has got a great brain on him.
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The Trinder injury issues are a sod. Glawster have a real star and game changer on their hands if we can just get some consecutive games out of him.
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Castleford appear to have gone to pieces in the Rugby League semifinal. St Helens have scored 3 tries in about 8 minutes.
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22-22 in the dying seconds.
Hoping Castleford win as they topped the league by a country mile and have never appeared in a Grand Final.
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Newcastle giving Irish a bit of a kicking tonight, they look like a dark horse for the top4 for me, very well organised and have a few very dangerous backs.
Irish are a strange side, they have some real quality in the team but they just can't string it together to create tries.
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Just seen the other scores, Sale have demolished Glaws, bit of a shock that one.
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Looks like the two Irish v Worcester games willl be major factors in who goes down already. Can't see anyone else being in the shake up.
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Looks like the two Irish v Worcester games willl be major factors in who goes down already. Can't see anyone else being in the shake up.
I agree and from what I've seen I suspect Irish will get the better of them. Irish have snuck a win already and I think they might get couple more during the international windows because they have some very dangerous ball carriers (Lewington won't be there next season and I suspect he'll make the England squad before long and they have Cokanasiga to come back and he's an absolute monster). I honestly don't see Worcester winning a game this year, they look a long way short of the quality needed for this league.
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Looks like the two Irish v Worcester games willl be major factors in who goes down already. Can't see anyone else being in the shake up.
I agree and from what I've seen I suspect Irish will get the better of them. Irish have snuck a win already and I think they might get couple more during the international windows because they have some very dangerous ball carriers (Lewington won't be there next season and I suspect he'll make the England squad before long and they have Cokanasiga to come back and he's an absolute monster). I honestly don't see Worcester winning a game this year, they look a long way short of the quality needed for this league.
I tend to agree however for the 3rd year running it looks like Worcester are relying on the arrival of Houggard to transform the back line. Not getting a decent 10 is looking more and more stupid by the defeat.
Not looked at the fixture list to see if there is Premiership fixtures autumn int / 6 nations weekends, they have traditionally been weekends the bottom teams can get a shock result or two :-)
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Looks like the two Irish v Worcester games willl be major factors in who goes down already. Can't see anyone else being in the shake up.
I agree and from what I've seen I suspect Irish will get the better of them. Irish have snuck a win already and I think they might get couple more during the international windows because they have some very dangerous ball carriers (Lewington won't be there next season and I suspect he'll make the England squad before long and they have Cokanasiga to come back and he's an absolute monster). I honestly don't see Worcester winning a game this year, they look a long way short of the quality needed for this league.
I tend to agree however for the 3rd year running it looks like Worcester are relying on the arrival of Houggard to transform the back line. Not getting a decent 10 is looking more and more stupid by the defeat.
Not looked at the fixture list to see if there is Premiership fixtures autumn int / 6 nations weekends, they have traditionally been weekends the bottom teams can get a shock result or two :-)
Yep, I have family with season tickets there and they're hoping things tick once they can get Hougaard, Mills and T'eo together.
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Gloucester were absolutely dire on Friday.
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Saracens v Wasps today. It should be cracking game.
It's been a great season so far with no team looking significantly better than the others (saracens ominously quite/quietly efficient).
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Gloucester were absolutely dire on Friday.
But much improved yesterday.
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Saracens v Wasps today. It should be cracking game.
It's been a great season so far with no team looking significantly better than the others (saracens ominously quite/quietly efficient).
I agree, if you assume relegation is a playoff between Irish and Worcester the other 10 teams are all capable of beating each other and will all at least have an aim of the champions cup if not the play offs. Gloucester, Quins and Sale have all been a bit hit and miss but when they click the quality is there and the others all look well in the mix for the top 4 already. It's one of the best starts to a season we've seen and I just hope the european games and then the international break don't kill the momentum.
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Saracens v Wasps today. It should be cracking game.
It's been a great season so far with no team looking significantly better than the others (saracens ominously quite/quietly efficient).
I agree, if you assume relegation is a playoff between Irish and Worcester the other 10 teams are all capable of beating each other and will all at least have an aim of the champions cup if not the play offs. Gloucester, Quins and Sale have all been a bit hit and miss but when they click the quality is there and the others all look well in the mix for the top 4 already. It's one of the best starts to a season we've seen and I just hope the european games and then the international break don't kill the momentum.
A coach (Dai Jones?) was quoted saying that the new rules mean that there are 50+ more hits per game resulting in more injuries. If so, the comparatively competitive nature of the aviva premier could hit england hard(er) over the duration of a season. Whilst this would be devastating for football, it seems like a bonus for rugby as players like Marcus Smith a forced to play key roles. It'd be nice if the clubs view it this way and do not seek insurance of more solid overseas journeymen.
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Ouch. Saracens thump wasps 38-19. Considering they did similar to the Saints it looks ominous.
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Ouch. Saracens thump wasps 38-19. Considering they did similar to the Saints it looks ominous.
In both cases, and with everything else that's happened so far this year, I'm going with a fence sitting yes and no.
For starters Wasps are desperately poor against an aggressive defence right now. Robson, Cipriani and Gopperth at 9, 10 and 12 gave them unpredictability and meant teams had to be cautious but because of injuries 2-3 of them have been missing from pretty much every game so far, from the 15 at least, Today it was just Robson and only from the bench and Sarries just bullied them and waited for them to kick away possession. On top of that they're also missing a lot of the big ball carriers in the pack, so they don't even have the options to come from their either. That meant that Sarries real strength was targeted directly at the biggest weakness for Wasps, it looked like a mismatch all along, I'm surprised it wasn't a bigger win in truth.
On top of that Wasps scored 19 points and were pretty unlucky to have the one chalked off for a forward pass which would've left them with a realistic chance of a try scoring bonus point, in the Saints game you mentioned they also leaked 3 tries and were lucky to not give away more (saints butchered a couple of decent chances and sarries saved one in the corner as well). That's a bit of a weakness and they have conceded points much more freely this year than for the last 3-4 seasons.
What's concerning is that they seem to have stepped up their ability to punish mistakes and their line out is better this season than I've seen before.
So the short version is that I honestly don't know what to think with them just yet.
The injuries thing will be an interesting one to watch out for but the wage cap not changing means teams are going to have to rely on their young players, most of the clubs have reduced the size of their squads over the last 2-3 years from up near 50 in some cases to more like 40 now.
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Gloucester were absolutely dire on Friday.
But much improved yesterday.
Very good. Again shows the difference that Trinder makes.
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The injuries thing will be an interesting one to watch out for but the wage cap not changing means teams are going to have to rely on their young players, most of the clubs have reduced the size of their squads over the last 2-3 years from up near 50 in some cases to more like 40 now.
[Regardless of what I said earlier] I think that the injuries will have greater impact on the European games as the Celts can rest players beforehand. therefore I'm predicting that only one english team gets to the semis.
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Just watched Saints v Saracens. Jeeze, Farrell has come on as a player. A way more creative player that I ever imagined he would become.
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Just watched Saints v Saracens. Jeeze, Farrell has come on as a player. A way more creative player that I ever imagined he would become.
Indeed, I watched until the last 10 minutes or so but it was painful as a saints fan. Lawes was world class, despite them taking an absolute battering he deserves credit, 7 more forwards playing at that level and it'd be a different game.
Back to the game Saints suffered from the same problem as Villa did this weekend which was trying to let the opposition play in front of them but not accounting for the moments of brilliance which could carve them up if they just defended with no real threat o taking control of the game. Having sarries do it to you is less embarrassing though.
That said I really don't like the fact that the sarries game is built around being on the edge of the laws all the time. Take the scrum, they'd bind properly but once the ball was in Mako shifted to binding on the arm at every scrum, which pulled Brookes down and saw the other side wheel round and the ref just gave them penalties or let it play out. Even when he stood on that side and was looking at it he didn't seem to understand what effect the shift in bind was having.
Then there's repeated occurrences of a player joining the tackle before it's been completed so he can shift round and block the saints support runners but never getting pinged for not rolling away/not releasing. These are the same tricks the All Blacks have used for years and that have seen law changes to address but unless refs uphold those laws it has no effect.
I'm also a bit surprised that no one wanted to take another look at the 4th try, there was a definite hint of truck and trailer about it, with the maul splitting into 2 'pods' and the first clearing defenders out so they had an easy score, if they did stay bound it was at arms length and was worth checking.
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Saracens are utterly ruthless, and I think most successful teams play on the edge of the laws.
I just read that Stade Francais lost in Siberia!
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Saracens are utterly ruthless, and I think most successful teams play on the edge of the laws.
I just read that Stade Francais lost in Siberia!
I agree but for me sarries and the all blacks (and Leinster for that matter) cross the line into blatant cheating a little too often but because of the way they do it they carry the ref along with them, like the scrum thing I mentioned above, create the idea in the mind of the ref that the opposition are trying to wheel it then start wheeling it yourself and you'll get the decisions more often than not.
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So saints are already out of Europe ...
Moving on Lawes was exceptional again, he really is something special right now.
Saints were horribly wasteful and had easily enough chances to win it.
The ref put in one of the worst performances you'll ever see, in any sport, there were 5 major mistakes:
Disallowed a try for Hartley as a knock on when Lawes reached through a maul and slapped it out of the 9s hands, from hand to floor it went back by at least a foot.
Gave Hartley a yellow for catching someone in the face as he tried to wrap his arms to clear a player out of a ruck, was quite clearly accidental and 100% a "rugby incident".
Didn't then give a red when that player intentionally elbowed Hartley in the face and, to make it worse he outright said he was giving it because it was the same as the one above.
Called Morgan Parra as unconscious and then let him come back on (despite the law being that if he was deemed unconscious then he's not allowed back).
Saints player clearly stepped out of play (toes on the line, rest of his foot out of play behind) in the build up to the saints try, didn't review it and hurried things along before the TV official could stop him.
That the commentators and pundits all called it out as a terrible performance made me feel better because I was getting very annoyed with him.
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He was awful. It's amazing that they can consult video replays yet still get it wrong.
From the off, he seemed to lose the player's respect and was back peddling from that point onwards. I actually think he knew this and consequently was influenced by the french crowd more than any ref should be.
I'm a Saints fan, but they got what they deserved. you cannot leave that many points on the park and expect to win.
Regardless of the above, a great spectacle (the leg break excluded). It was jarring watching WBA straight afterwards.
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Great game between Montpellier and Exeter so far
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And an excellent win for Exeter
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Wasps/Quins is a superb match so far, Hughes has been brilliant, Robson is a great 9 and Smith will be one of the best 10s ever, he's already brilliant as an 18 year old.
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If Hughes can replicate that form at 8 for England then the loss of Billy V won't be that great.
Would love to see Robson get a chance in the squad at least.
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I've been impressed by the young Exeter #8 too. He has a step like a back but still the power to make some dents.
I'm not aware of any natural #7s but we seem to have ridiculous strength in depth everywhere else.
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I've been impressed by the young Exeter #8 too. He has a step like a back but still the power to make some dents.
I'm not aware of any natural #7s but we seem to have ridiculous strength in depth everywhere else.
Sam Underhill at Bath is the 7 in waiting right now.
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Kvesic would be if he was playing more frequently at Exeter. Another who got shunned internationally when he should have had a shot when at Gloucester.
Trinder was good again at the weekend and there is something I quite like about Olly Thorley as well.
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Kvesic would be if he was playing more frequently at Exeter. Another who got shunned internationally when he should have had a shot when at Gloucester.
Trinder was good again at the weekend and there is something I quite like about Olly Thorley as well.
I like Kvesic but until he forces his way into the exeter team he's clearly not going to get a call up, Jones has already spoken aboutwanting a proper look at Underhill so he's pretty much guaranteed game time in the autumn games.
I'd love Trinder to get in but I think his time may have passed. Thorley is a talent but with the wing options I'm not sure he's done enough to force himself in just yet. Look at the other options: May, Nowell, Watson, Yarde, Solomona are all likely to figure but then you can add Wade, Earle, Lewington, Collins, Walker and Cokanasiga who are all either in great form or have had a look in already as well. That's a truly insane amount of depth, Especially with Daly being played on the wing!
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Glory hunting alive and well in rugby
http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/hartpury-support-grows-over-150-685322
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A marvellously enjoyable win for us at The Wreck yesterday.
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It's not often Glos win a close one. Or win away. Or beat Bath.
I think this has bought Ackermann some breathing space.
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It's not often Glos win a close one. Or win away. Or beat Bath.
I think this has bought Ackermann some breathing space.
Wins at Bath are as rare as rocking horse shit for us so to do it in the 89th minute was ace.
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Gloucester v Saracens might be interesting on Friday given all the players they have missing for the international games.
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Gloucester v Saracens might be interesting on Friday given all the players they have missing for the international games.
I really struggle with the domestic games at this time of year, in the 6N it feels more natural to have the 2 together (I have no idea why) but these game just feel odd.
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Well Gloucester have had nobody called up internationally so should be looking to make hay whilst the sun shines.
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Excellent that Worcester finally get a win, BP even better :-) different team with Houggard pulling the strings, from no hope a month or so ago avoiding relegation is a true competition again
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Excellent that Worcester finally get a win, BP even better :-) different team with Houggard pulling the strings, from no hope a month or so ago avoiding relegation is a true competition again
You were playing saints who seem to have contracted the Villa disease of being the team you want to play if you have an unwanted record you need to get rid of.
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Excellent that Worcester finally get a win, BP even better :-) different team with Houggard pulling the strings, from no hope a month or so ago avoiding relegation is a true competition again
You were playing saints who seem to have contracted the Villa disease of being the team you want to play if you have an unwanted record you need to get rid of.
Yup. Predictably Sunderland face Villa in their next match, just in time for the new manager bounce to take effect.
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Excellent that Worcester finally get a win, BP even better :-) different team with Houggard pulling the strings, from no hope a month or so ago avoiding relegation is a true competition again
You were playing saints who seem to have contracted the Villa disease of being the team you want to play if you have an unwanted record you need to get rid of.
Yup. Predictably Sunderland face Villa in their next match, just in time for the new manager bounce to take effect.
I blame myself if I'm honest, Villa relegated, Bears relegated, Saints blowing up everytime they look like they might be on the right path, it's like a curse.
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Good game on Friday. That is the first time Gloucester have won three on the bounce in the league for years.
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Worcester bonus point win at Leicester - unheard of :-)
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Good game on Friday. That is the first time Gloucester have won three on the bounce in the league for years.
Four and a bonus point!
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Worcester bonus point win at Leicester - unheard of :-)
First win there in 122 years.
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New coach bounce for the mighty Lyd
Dumped the coach after just four games (all defeats) and then beat Camborne
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Five on the spin now for Gloucester.
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Chris Ashton from zero to hero yesterday for Toulon against Barf.
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Saints have given Mallinder the boot, came about 6-7 months later than I expected but the writing has been on the wall for a while now.
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They can't keep losing at that rate. Any word on a replacement?
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Not seen anything concrete but I had a fairly decent source that said they were very close to moving him on in the summer (I think I posted similar in about April) and had actually spoken to a couple of people with the one name that seemed to come up then was Heyneke Meyer who was the SA coach until a couple of years back.
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The only speculation I have read was two young coaches from exeter. Alli Hepher and ???, both were ex Saints so it might just be nostalgia on the writers part.
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The only speculation I have read was two young coaches from exeter. Alli Hepher and ???, both were ex Saints so it might just be nostalgia on the writers part.
I think a complete change of the entire coaching teams is definitely on the cards so that's probably reasonable. Mike Ford has been mentioned heavily in the press in the last day or 2 but I'm not sure if he'd be a good idea.
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Why do you say that, Paul?
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Why do you say that, Paul?
There's been lots of rumours of the pkayers being unhappy with the coaches and thinking they're "calling it in".
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Why do you say that, Paul?
There's been lots of rumours of the pkayers being unhappy with the coaches and thinking they're "calling it in".
The Rugby Pod are pretty adamant that Dorian West should have gone before King and Malinder. They made it pretty obvious that they were simply echoing the comments of current players.
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Why do you say that, Paul?
There's been lots of rumours of the pkayers being unhappy with the coaches and thinking they're "calling it in".
The Rugby Pod are pretty adamant that Dorian West should have gone before King and Malinder. They made it pretty obvious that they were simply echoing the comments of current players.
Yeah West gets the most but I think the club just needs a 'reset'. There's no way they should be 10th in the league and completely adrift in the champions cup group, it's a very good squad so there's clearly other problems. I just think they missed a trick by not doing it in the summer. I like Mallinder and think he's done a great job but last season it was clear that he'd hit a wall and this year is the inevitable conclusion to that.
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Agree to all of that Paul, for that reason I'd prefer a temp appointment (maybe Ford) whilst they undertake a proper search.
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Olly Thorley got four against some zebras yesterday.
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Worcester won comfortably in the battle at the bottom.
Irish didn't play badly but conceding from first phase is unforgivable and they always look vulnerable.
Adams is in great form on the wing for Worcester and has a great habit of punishing errors and with the 9, 10 and 12 all in good form they have a lot of control.
For Irish they have a solid pack but at 9 everything is far too slow, the 10 doesn't trust himself to throw big passes and their centres are a mess. All of which is frustrating because Lewington and Cokanasiga are international standard wingers but they're just feeding on scraps. The former scored one of the best tries I've seen all season though.
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Thought Spencer had a great game, if England need an old school 2nd row at any point he wouldn’t be a bad shout.
Getting Houggard back fit & bringing in Lance has transformed Worcester from a team looking nailed on for relegation to one that may even look not to finish in the bottom 2.
Hopefully clarity on Gold’s successor and the ownership will follow in next few weeks.
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Well the DoR at Sixways is sorted, Solomans obv passed his audition this past 3 months :-)
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Agree to all of that Paul, for that reason I'd prefer a temp appointment (maybe Ford) whilst they undertake a proper search.
We got what you wanted, Alan Gaffney in until the summer. Pretty happy with that, he's done good jobs with Munster and Sarries in the past and gets a lot of credit for his work with Ireland.
The longer term choice will be interesting in the summer but this makes me hold onto some hope that they'll be doing a thorough search. I wish football clubs had the sense to approach it this way more often.
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Bath vs wasps is brilliant so far. 25-30 minutes of wasps at their very best, then a game changing yellow and 10 of bath smashing them up front.
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Bath vs wasps is brilliant so far. 25-30 minutes of wasps at their very best, then a game changing yellow and 10 of bath smashing them up front.
Finished 26-31 to wasps. For all the good things Eddie Jones has done he's plain wrong to not include Dan Robson, he's quite clearly the best 9 in Europe.
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Another win for Gloucester. I will be getting a nose bleed soon.
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Signing Matt Banahan at the end the season. I like that. Good cover across the Backs. And Polledri, who has been brilliant of late, called up by Italy.
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Signing Matt Banahan at the end the season. I like that. Good cover across the Backs. And Polledri, who has been brilliant of late, called up by Italy.
Banahan is a good squad player who wasn't quite international class. Good signing and I'm surprised Bath haven't fought a bit harder to keep him.
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They essentially offered him the same contract for another couple of years and we chucked an extra year, and a little more cash, on it. I don't know how this changes our plans for Alex Cuthbert who we have also been talking to but I guess that isn't a runner now given that we wouldn't want to stymie the game time for Thorley. We are apparently talking to saffer props as well.
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Saints have appointed Chris Boyd from the hurricanes. Not one I know much about because he's pretty much only been in SH rugby but his record is very impressive.
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Andy Goode was very positive about the appointment on his podcast, having worked with him briefly whilst at the Sharks (he was backs coach apparently).
The producer of the show is a kiwi and was equally positive.
Both said it was a bit of a coop by the saints.
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Good win for Worcester today away at Exeter for their first ever win at Sandy Park.
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Cipriani to leave Wasps.
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I'm beginning to think that we might not get promoted this year :(
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/south-west-division/#/table
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I'm beginning to think that we might not get promoted this year :(
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/south-west-division/#/table
I've played against 3 of those, we had a tour down in Devon and played teams from ivybridge, exmouth and newton abbot, along with a couple from wales and a couple of other midlands teams, was 15 a side but only 10mins each way as a 2 group cup and shield thing, we lost to newton abbot in the semi of the cup and beat one of the welsh lot (from Cardiff) in the 3rd place game. Was based at Exmouth so we could have a couple of nights out in Torquay. It's a great place to play rugby.
Sorry, I know that's utterly irrelevant, just didn't know they were all in the same league as your lot.
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That's how low we've fallen Paul
In the pre-league days we used to play Brixham, Weston and Camborne but the rest of them wouldn't have got a look in.
Next season we'll be playing teams that used to play our Second XV and in one case (Newent) our Thirds.
Could be leapfrogged by fecking Drybrook :-[
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Saints have appointed Chris Boyd from the hurricanes. Not one I know much about because he's pretty much only been in SH rugby but his record is very impressive.
Comes with a good reputation Paul and was widely thought to be one of the three on the WRU's shortlist to replace Gatland as Wales coach after the World Cup. Apparently was all set to join Cardiff until Saints intervened.
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Saints have appointed Chris Boyd from the hurricanes. Not one I know much about because he's pretty much only been in SH rugby but his record is very impressive.
Comes with a good reputation Paul and was widely thought to be one of the three on the WRU's shortlist to replace Gatland as Wales coach after the World Cup. Apparently was all set to join Cardiff until Saints intervened.
Indeed, the more I've looked into the more I think they've pulled off a bit of a masterstroke with this one, time will tell but they aren't going to die wondering with an appointment like this.
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Watched the last 20 minutes of Barrow v Toronto in the Rugby League Championship. Could hardly see the players for mud; quite enjoyable and bonkers that Toronto are in that League.
It was on Freesports.
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Watched the last 20 minutes of Barrow v Toronto in the Rugby League Championship. Could hardly see the players for mud; quite enjoyable and bonkers that Toronto are in that League.
It was on Freesports.
Aren't there extreme sanctions for contaminating this thread with talk of the Northern Game ?
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Saints announce a new signing - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialNorthamptonSaints/videos/1790662957653041/
For anyone who doesn't want to click it Taqele Naiyaravoro joins in the summer, he's a winger and is fucking huge.
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Gloucester won again against a very strong Leicester side. Worcester away this weekend.
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I'm beginning to think that we might not get promoted this year :(
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/south-west-division/#/table
I can't be arsed to research who it was for but my mucka Adam Balding was playing for a team in the Forest last year. Was that Drybrook? I remember red, orange and black stripes.
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Gloucester won again against a very strong Leicester side. Worcester away this weekend.
P.S. please keep Trinder fit.
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I'm beginning to think that we might not get promoted this year :(
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/south-west-division/#/table
I can't be arsed to research who it was for but my mucka Adam Balding was playing for a team in the Forest last year. Was that Drybrook? I remember red, orange and black stripes.
That would be Zindyferrrd.
I think that he was coaching them (might still be)
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Watched the last 20 minutes of Barrow v Toronto in the Rugby League Championship. Could hardly see the players for mud; quite enjoyable and bonkers that Toronto are in that League.
It was on Freesports.
Aren't there extreme sanctions for contaminating this thread with talk of the Northern Game ?
Here you go our kid, wouldn't want you getting in trouble with the public school towel-flicking fart-lighters...
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=38998.0
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Probably the South West Premier upset of the season today at Regentsholme.
I went expecting a fifty point hiding but The Mighty Lyd went and beat second placed Bournemouth
All too little too late to stave of relegation but we’re going down with some fight
(http://thumb.ibb.co/m9DiO7/5_A417021_E933_440_E_8030_F351_BE485_E4_E.png) (http://ibb.co/m9DiO7)
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Played Worcester - nice to see not resting on beating Exeter last week.
Will be the Great Escape if Irish get out of it now but until mathematics say it’s over..... :-)
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I'm beginning to think that we might not get promoted this year :(
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/south-west-division/#/table
I can't be arsed to research who it was for but my mucka Adam Balding was playing for a team in the Forest last year. Was that Drybrook? I remember red, orange and black stripes.
That would be Zindyferrrd.
I think that he was coaching them (might still be)
Must have been player coach. I haven't caught up with him for a bit but last I heard he had a job at Gloucester.
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I missed posting this at the time but last week Saints added Sam Vesty as the attack coach for next year. I think that's a great signing, he's done a really good job at Worcester.
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Maybe England could do with him!
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I hope England go for Greenwood
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Has Greenwood done any coaching?
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Has Greenwood done any coaching?
Yep, he's been the Barbarians Attack coach for a while. He's got all his badges as well (he had to get them for the school of hard knocks) but he'd want a role that's part time because of all the other stuff he does, which would fit well as a national coach. He has a great reputation and has had 2-3 clubs try to convince to take up full time coaching. in the last few years, I know Exeter were very interested.
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Ta!
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Gloucester have picked up Marais from the Sharks to replace Hibbard next season. Be interesting to see how many Saffers we sign.
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tigers vs wasps today, after 25 minutes Robson has done everything you'd want from a world class scrum-half, he's been superb and put in one of the greatest try saving tackles I've ever seen, and this guy can't get in the squad, it's very frustrating that Jones just doesn't seem interested.
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You do wonder if there's a reason for this beyond playing ability.
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Great win for Gloucester at Connacht.
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Sale wasps has bene a good game to watch but the defending has been horrific.
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Ridiculous end to the game.
Bassett gets flattened off the ball, no one reacts and whilst he's being treated (for a facial injury) Sale break and nearly score, with Haskell getting a yellow on the line. After the scrum De Klerk Elbows Cipriani in the face (leaving him out cold for 7-8minutes) and gets away without even a penalty, game restarts after about 11 minutes and Sale win with a try in the corner because the extra man gave them a massive overlap.
I fully expect 2 citings and both getting called as, at the very least, red cards. Wasps can be very upset about it.
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Here's the Cipriani injury -
http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/smcmahon/watch-danny-cipriani-knocked-cold-brutal-collision-faf-de-klerk/
The ref gave nothing (judging it a clash of heads) but de Klerk's right arm is in a very dangerous position, I'm fairly sure that's the first contact. On top of that I don't understand how de klerk was allowed to stay on if it was given as a clash of heads, if he's hit Cipriani hard enough to knock him out then he has to be subjected to a HIA as well, even if he seems fine.
I also missed the fact that at no point did he stop the clock so Haskell's yellow sin-binning was technically completed when the game was restarted.
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Glad Worcester won today after seeing Irish beat Quins - was convinced Worcester were ‘on the beach’ & wouldn’t get another win this season
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We are off to watch Stourbridge v Tynedale on Saturday.
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A charity plug.....
Wayne Barnes XV v Forest of Dean XV in Lydney on May 6th
A host of former internationals, coached on the day by Warren Gatland.
Will also feature Nigel Owens, who will join Wayne for a charity meal on Sat 5th
https://www.facebook.com/events/1540820436037763/
https://inmemory.breastcancernow.org/debbie-broderick
I probably won't be able to be there, which is disappointing because I used to work with Paul Broderick
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Semi for Gloucester in Europe tonight against the geordies. Should be a decent game.
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Get in.
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Not worth a new thread, so I'll plonk this here
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/03/flashing-lights-seven-point-tries-and-rolling-subs-its-world-series-rugby
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Stupid changes, the subs one will be abused, the lineout and scrum changes are just an attempt to make the game more like league (just meatheads running into each other) and the bonus points super try thing is pathetic.
O hope the whole thing falls on it's arse given it's only come about because the australians are sulking about their super rugby sides being shit. If Australian fans just want to watch braindead shit they can watch league and Aussie rules.
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Watching Falcons vs Wasps, Cipriani has gone off with an injury after 45 but before that he's been utterly brilliant. I get why Jones doesn't pick him but I can't stop thinking that we miss out on having the bit of genius he could offer.
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I’ve never got the Ford love in from England, both Farrell & Cipriani are better 10’s for me....seems Cipriani is in the same club as Robson, face doesn’t fit
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I’ve never got the Ford love in from England, both Farrell & Cipriani are better 10’s for me....seems Cipriani is in the same club as Robson, face doesn’t fit
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Gloucester downed tools the last couple of weeks as they had already qualified for the big European competition. They had better get their shit together on Friday as we owe Cardiff after our pasting at Twickenham a few years ago.
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Great first half from Gloucester, well deserved 2 try lead. The 2nd try in particular was superb from the backs. To repeat a firmly held belief, Trinder is the best centre in England, he would have 40-50 caps by now if he'd not had so many injury problems, he's just a brilliant player to watch.
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I know that it clashed with the Villa game, but did anyone watch the Champions Cup ?
I see that having graced the hallowed turf at Regentsholme last weekend, Barnesy had to slum it refereeing the final :)
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So, Cipriani to Gloucester and Haskell to Saints (along with a brilliant unveil on twitter).
Gloucester have pulled off a masterstroke there, brilliant player for them given the quality they already have in the backline.
Saints I'm not so sure he's the right player for them but he is very good in the premiership so I can understand it.
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Oh, and whilst I'm saying nice things about Glaws ...
https://twitter.com/premrugby/status/995635015630311424
The Twelvetrees one is the clear winner for me because of the brilliance from Trinder, that's why I think he's the best centre in the league.
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So, Cipriani to Gloucester and Haskell to Saints (along with a brilliant unveil on twitter).
Gloucester have pulled off a masterstroke there, brilliant player for them given the quality they already have in the backline.
Saints I'm not so sure he's the right player for them but he is very good in the premiership so I can understand it.
Good signing that. Will give us far more than Burns or Owen Williams. There had been a bit of rattle about spending big on fly half but I presumed it would be a saffer. We have Banahan coming in next season as well.
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Exeter leading 6-0 after 25mins in the 2nd semi but that really doesn't tell the story, this game is ridiculous. The tackle count is currently 6-98 and the metres gained is 208-2. They're probably a better reflection of just how much control Exeter have. It must be 95% possession so far, I don't think I've ever seen a game like this before which hasn't been an absolute demolition.
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How was Joe Simmonds? For all the talk about Marcus Smith Simmonds has quietly gone about his business and arguably achieved more (admittedly in a better team).
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How was Joe Simmonds? For all the talk about Marcus Smith Simmonds has quietly gone about his business and arguably achieved more (admittedly in a better team).
It was really hard to tell, it was an hour of defence vs. attack and by the time Newcastle started trying to play the game was broken up and pretty much all over. They defended brilliantly but that was about the worst attacking performance I've seen in a playoff, the fact that the commentators felt the need to point out Sinoti's first touch (in the 46th minute) tells you just how ridiculous it was. That said he kicked superbly and the only mistake I can think of was him trying to throw a 30 yard pass and forgetting to consider the wind which almost gave Goneva an intercept.
In the other semi there was very dodgy decision to disallow a try for Daly and when Wasps responded to that and scored twice in about 5 minutes Sarries went back to script and got themselves 4-5 really ropey penalties. Doyle also made a fucking mess of officiating the scrum, at one point he threatened a pen against wasps for an early push, reset it and then gave Sarries a penalty because they made an early push and wasps didn't. On top of that there were 2 pretty clear yellow cards for sarries which he gave as penalties only. The standard of refs in the rugby was fantastic about 10-15 years ago but the current crop are pretty poor.