Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: IFWaters on July 28, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
-
I know its been a while since those heady days our spring run of wins prompted me to place the maximum allowed bet on Villa (£12!) on bet365 for Villa to get promoted at odds of 250-1. The collapse ensued and we ended up 18 points short with 62 in 13th place.
This year I have cranked the Wikipedia handle and looked back over 22 years of the 2 automatic places and 4 playoff spots targets and come up with the following targets :
Target 1 : to get into the playoffs. Whether you use an average based on the last 5, last 10 or all 22 seasons, the average to get into the playoffs is ...
74 points
Thats a tidy 1.6 points per game or 8 points from every 5 matches or in other words a ratio of 2 wins and 2 draws to every loss.
Another way of looking at it is 20 wins, 14 draws and 12 losses .... or .... turning 4 of our losses last season into victories
Target 2 : To guarantee playoffs ... 80 points - achieved only once in the last 22 years...last year...although in truth to finish 6th Fulham only needed 76 points.
Target 3, to guarantee automatic promotion, 87 points , average over the last 10 or all 22 seasons. Probably winning 24 or 25 games.
-
The key is winning games. It is better to risk losing a game by going for a win, rather than a succession of draws.
-
We won 12 home games last season.
We could've easily won another three under RDM alone when you think back to those late goals (Huddersfield, Forest and Brentford) so say our home form remains strong (with most teams coming here happy to take a point so we're handed the initiative from kick off something like 15 home wins and 5 draws is 50 points.
Really it will come down to the away form, 3 away wins last year was embarrassing. We simply have to do better and quite a bit.
If we want automatic promotion we need a minimum of 10 away wins as with the draws that will get you to about 85 points.
Shows the scale of the task.
-
I had £5 to get promoted at 200/1 last winter. What a tool.
-
I have had a 25-1 double. Villa to be in the Premiership and Donald Trump to be out of office by next June.
-
I fear that Trump will be in the Premier League before we are, Brian.
-
We won 12 home games last season.
We could've easily won another three under RDM alone when you think back to those late goals (Huddersfield, Forest and Brentford) so say our home form remains strong (with most teams coming here happy to take a point so we're handed the initiative from kick off something like 15 home wins and 5 draws is 50 points.
Really it will come down to the away form, 3 away wins last year was embarrassing. We simply have to do better and quite a bit.
If we want automatic promotion we need a minimum of 10 away wins as with the draws that will get you to about 85 points.
Shows the scale of the task.
To me we won't lose too many games with the defensive players we have, but my sole concern now is the goalscoring.
Last year we were massively reliant on King Kodj , say he gets injured we would be in trouble.
Hogan will do better I think and RHM and Green will get some goals as will Grealish but I still think we need to replace McCormack. Gabby isnt it. Ojo looks like a supplier of chances but I think an experienced 3rd striker will give us cover for injury or form or the chance to turn a game in the last 15 minutes.
It should be McCormack but it will not be him. I think a 3rd striker could make a difference in 6 or 7 games and add 10 points to get us over the line.
-
There's one analysis which says: add another couple of reliable goalscorers, toughen up our attitude away from home, and strengthen the squad to make us less reliable on Chester, Jedinak and Kodjia
And all of that's true
But we need to be a lot more creative too. We were pretty bad even in many of our home victories and we can't necessarily rely on the same recipe working as much. Looks like Bruce has either identified that we do have the talent to do that within the existing squad (maybe) or that it's really about those other factors (mistake in my view).
-
If we win lots of football matches we might have a chance.
In truth, the odds were always stacked against us last season. You don't go from winning 3 games in a season to winning the circa 30 it would have taken to have gone up.
-
If we win lots of football matches we might have a chance.
In truth, the odds were always stacked against us last season. You don't go from winning 3 games in a season to winning the circa 30 it would have taken to have gone up.
That is it in a nutshell.
-
What numbers and returns of points are needed by October to give realistic chance of promotion ?
-
I hate these threads.
We look at the run of fixtures.
"Ah, it's only (names of teams that aren't as big as the Villa) - we'll win all of them - maybe drop a couple of points away".
Proceed to underperform in all of them.
Repeat.
Guaranteed jinx.
-
This thread is the online equivalent of the gypsys curse.
-
This thread is the online equivalent of the gypsys curse.
I wish you hadn't mention those two words.
Now I have to go piss in all four corners of my laptop
-
Can anyone still foresee 10 away wins, after the last 10 days?
-
Can anyone still foresee 10 away wins, after the last 10 days?
Sure. A decent manager and I can see it very easily.
-
I'm struggling to see 10 wins anywhere with Bruce in charge.
-
We are not getting out of this division alive.
-
Can anyone still foresee 10 away wins, after the last 10 days?
Most definitely. All at Villa Park.
-
Can anyone still foresee 10 away wins, after the last 10 days?
Sure. A decent manager and I can see it very easily.
Genuine question - how could we use our existing squad more effectively to (a) score more in general and (b) win away from home?
-
As that squad to press and play 15 yards higher up the pitch and closer together in possession would be my immediate suggestions.
There's a fuck tonne of tinkering that can be done.
-
who'd play and how many per season would they score?
-
I'm not willing to entertain an argument that isn't one of the best squad's in the league.
-
Only "one of" the best, Ads? You're slipping.
-
:-[Should we get ready to change the name of this thread to Relegation Maths?
-
I'm not willing to entertain an argument that isn't one of the best squad's in the league.
I was asking a honest question on how the squad could be used to turn out a team capable of winning away and perhaps more convincingly at home.
From my point I view I think there are massive doubts in the squad, namely:
(1) lack of pace
(2) lack of creative supply to forwards
(3) inability for our best forward to form partnerships with the rest of the team
(4) lack of quality in wide midfield areas
(5) lack of quality in defensive midfield/reliance on jedinak
(6) lack of goals from so called creative/attacking midfielders
(7) debatable quality of full backs
(8) the need to play deep to accommodate the lack of pace from our marquee signing over the summer
(9) mental fragility when going behind
(10) lack of fitness to pressurise the opposition
ok some of the points can be addressed but that still leaves massive concerns.
-
I'm not willing to entertain an argument that isn't one of the best squad's in the league.
I was asking a honest question on how the squad could be used to turn out a team capable of winning away and perhaps more convincingly at home.
From my point I view I think there are massive doubts in the squad, namely:
(1) lack of pace
(2) lack of creative supply to forwards
(3) inability for our best forward to form partnerships with the rest of the team
(4) lack of quality in wide midfield areas
(5) lack of quality in defensive midfield/reliance on jedinak
(6) lack of goals from so called creative/attacking midfielders
(7) debatable quality of full backs
(8) the need to play deep to accommodate the lack of pace from our marquee signing over the summer
(9) mental fragility when going behind
(10) lack of fitness to pressurise the opposition
ok some of the points can be addressed but that still leaves massive concerns.
(1) most of our goals last year seemed to be from counter attacks
(2) in Lansbury, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Elmohamady, Onomah, etc we've got plenty of creativity
(3) well play to their strengths and they might (ie don't lump it up to a short, lone striker)
(4) see above re Adomah, Grealish and Elmohamady
(5) Whelan's just dropped out of a mid-table Prem team where he was a regular
(6) see (2) above - give them a role where they're allowed to get out of our half and they'll score plenty
(7) De Laet has a Premier League winners medal and Taylor got to the latter stages of the Euros
(8 ) We had the 4th best defence in the league last year - that's not our problem
(9) we've got a team of ex-captains - not an issue
(10) is it fitness or the result of a manager who's only tactic is to score a goal then try to defend it?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this squad the right manager couldn't fix.
-
The Adam's have it. The pressure is on Bruce massively because of the squad.
-
I'd agree with most of that Adam apart from RDL having a league winner's medal automatically makes him decent. He started 6 or 7 games, was subbed in most and sent on loan in the New Year.
-
To Boro and got promoted to be fair. After scoring against us and starting our collapse towards relegation.
-
Don't get me wrong I think he'll be more than decent for us once fit. Just that winning a medal can sometimes be misleading.
-
No argument here. He also benefits from being ABH, anybody but Hutton.
-
We are not getting out of this division alive.
I just hate mindless optimism!!..... ;D
-
I'm not willing to entertain an argument that isn't one of the best squad's in the league.
I was asking a honest question on how the squad could be used to turn out a team capable of winning away and perhaps more convincingly at home.
From my point I view I think there are massive doubts in the squad, namely:
(1) lack of pace
(2) lack of creative supply to forwards
(3) inability for our best forward to form partnerships with the rest of the team
(4) lack of quality in wide midfield areas
(5) lack of quality in defensive midfield/reliance on jedinak
(6) lack of goals from so called creative/attacking midfielders
(7) debatable quality of full backs
(8) the need to play deep to accommodate the lack of pace from our marquee signing over the summer
(9) mental fragility when going behind
(10) lack of fitness to pressurise the opposition
ok some of the points can be addressed but that still leaves massive concerns.
(1) most of our goals last year seemed to be from counter attacks
(2) in Lansbury, Hourihane, Adomah, Grealish, Elmohamady, Onomah, etc we've got plenty of creativity
(3) well play to their strengths and they might (ie don't lump it up to a short, lone striker)
(4) see above re Adomah, Grealish and Elmohamady
(5) Whelan's just dropped out of a mid-table Prem team where he was a regular
(6) see (2) above - give them a role where they're allowed to get out of our half and they'll score plenty
(7) De Laet has a Premier League winners medal and Taylor got to the latter stages of the Euros
(8 ) We had the 4th best defence in the league last year - that's not our problem
(9) we've got a team of ex-captains - not an issue
(10) is it fitness or the result of a manager who's only tactic is to score a goal then try to defend it?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this squad the right manager couldn't fix.
I don't particularly want to get into endlessly going over this, but the way I see it is that the the squad isn't balanced and struggles with any of the formations we could (try?) play.
4-2-3-1
The issue to date with this is with the 3 attacking midfielders. We've added Onomah but does this give us enough goals? For this system to work each of these three players needs to score 10-12 goals per season. I'd say Grealish is potenitally capable. Onamah? A N Other eg Adomah - certainly isnt, Green - big ask.
4-4-2
The issue with this Kodija can't seem to link up with any of our other fowards.
We rely on Jedinak or Whelan to hold the centre - will that work?
Don't think Grealish fits in here.
4-3-3
Do we have a midfield 3 that can do this to allow (say) Grealish a free role to support 2 central strikers?
Like I said before - some issues can be addressed, and yes the squad has some good players, but as a unit I think there are lots of concerns and it's simplistic to say that a new manager could (easily) sort it out.
-
4-3-3 is the best bet given the squad we have:
Johnstone
De Laet Terry Chester Taylor
Lansbury Whelan Hourihane
Adomah Grealish
Kodjia
Given the freedom to attack, that team would smash most teams in this division - before they joined Lansbury averaged a goal every 5 games with Forest and Hourihane a goal every 4 with Barnsley so both of those are capable of double-figures.
Plus there's plenty of other options to mix that team up with Hogan, Onomah, Jedinak, Elmohamady, etc.
It's honestly incredible that we're second bottom.
-
4-3-3 is the best bet given the squad we have:
Johnstone
De Laet Terry Chester Taylor
Lansbury Whelan Hourihane
Adomah Grealish
Kodjia
Given the freedom to attack, that team would smash most teams in this division - before they joined Lansbury averaged a goal every 5 games with Forest and Hourihane a goal every 4 with Barnsley so both of those are capable of double-figures.
Plus there's plenty of other options to mix that team up with Hogan, Onomah, Jedinak, Elmohamady, etc.
It's honestly incredible that we're second bottom.
I see what you're saying, but that team is very much the same as last year - and it didn't score enough goals. Unless Whelan is a big step up from Jedinak then I don't see Hourihane and Lansbury doing anything attacking wise.
But, even if they did get their average of around 10 goals a season then when added to Kodija's expected 20, that still leaves the rest needing to contribute around 35 goals.
I think Grealish is potentially 10-12 goals a season but he's out for months. So on average I#d say that position contributes say 8. Adomah 5.
Thats 22 from the rest. I just can't see that happening.
-
I see what you're saying, but that team is very much the same as last year - and it didn't score enough goals.
I don't think the issue last year was the formation or the players - it was how they were asked to play.
We've seen that given the freedom to get forward both Lansbury and Hourihane will score and create goals. And given we had one of the best defences in the league last year and have added a world class (in his day) centre half and a new defensive midfielder to that we shouldn't have any trouble at the back.
It all comes back to Bruce's eye-wateringly negative mentality. And I just don't see that changing until he's gone.
-
I see what you're saying, but that team is very much the same as last year - and it didn't score enough goals.
I don't think the issue last year was the formation or the players - it was how they were asked to play.
We've seen that given the freedom to get forward both Lansbury and Hourihane will score and create goals. And given we had one of the best defences in the league last year and have added a world class (in his day) centre half and a new defensive midfielder to that we shouldn't have any trouble at the back.
It all comes back to Bruce's eye-wateringly negative mentality. And I just don't see that changing until he's gone.
Yep
-
To be on target for the playoffs we need to average 1.6 points a game. Or 16 points from the first 10 matches. We have 1 from 3 matches. We need 15 points from the next 7 games...5 wins in 7. Already lookin grim in it ?
-
We need to win 6 out if the next 7.
Not looking likely, but it is still incredibly early in the season.
-
Can look at this thread with a renewed optimisticy .
A win against Bristol city would bring about a good 6/6 points haulage for week .
Have to say looked at early table and there are teams around lower echelon and not top 6 who were play off last year Fulham and reading so early days as table sorts it out.
Cardiff and Ipswich aren't there to stay at top but well played to them really like to think villa could get on top 5 places and at 16/1 each way 4 places taking some
-
Edit: was trying to create a table to monitor progress against required points per game for playoffs and automatic promotion. Its a bit of a pain in the arse so wont bother.
After 4 games to be on track we need:
Automatic 4 x 2.04 = 8.16 points
Playoffs 4 x 1.78 = 7.12 points
After 5 games:
Automatic 5 x 2.04 = 10.2 points
Playoffs 5 x 1.78 = 8.9 points
2.04 average PPG for 94 total
1.78 average PPG for 82 total
-
We need to be on 20 points by end of September.
I'm optimistically looking for us to win 5 of our next 7 starting tonight.
We would be in the mix nicely if we can do that.
-
We're 5 points down on where I thought we'd be after 5 games.
Win the next 5 on the trot and we'll be back on course. What's the odds on that happening?
-
Same for me. Thought we'd on around 10 points by now.
Going to be a big September for Steve Bruce.
-
Just like last season the games and points keep slipping by and the chances of promotion dwindle.
It looks like the club will be too slow to act to put it right and a rerun of last season looks increasingly likely.
-
Yep and week in week out we'll be fed excuse after excuse by Bruce as he claims that he needs more time and money to turn it around...the media and fans of other clubs will tell us how self entitled we think we are and should be grateful to have such a good manager...and there will be a large section of Villa fans that can't see the woods through the trees and still think he's doing a great job.
-
We need to be on 20 points by end of September.
I'm optimistically looking for us to win 5 of our next 7 starting tonight.
We would be in the mix nicely if we can do that.
There's a reasonable chance with the good home form and law of averages suggests at least one away win every 1000 years.
But whether we'd kick on and put away wins back to back remains to be seen.
-
Brentford (H)
Boro (H)
Barnsley (A)
Burton (A)
Forest (H)
Bolton (H)
Needs to be 4 wins from that bunch.
-
Brentford (H)
Boro (H)
Barnsley (A)
Burton (A)
Forest (H)
Bolton (H)
Needs to be 4 wins from that bunch.
We wont do that.
-
Crikey that's a massive chance to pick up points. 4 wins minimum. The two away games are big opportunities too.
-
2 wins, 3 draws and a defeat.
-
13 points minimum from that run.
-
Newcastle would have won them all. We have to aim to win them all.
-
Crucial month coming up. Di matteo was sacked with 10 points from 11 before the last October international break. Bruce needs to be on 16 points minimum at same stage I reckon which is 11 points from those 6 games. 3 wins 2 draws 1 defeat seems reasonable looking at those fixtures.
-
Brentford (H)
Boro (H)
Barnsley (A)
Burton (A)
Forest (H)
Bolton (H)
Needs to be 4 wins from that bunch.
We wont do that.
I think we will.
-
I think it will be pretty clear what state we are in after those 6.
End up it 11 games and 11 pts and Bruce will get the chop.
-
You look at the games coming up. Last season we drew with Brentford at home, Barnsley away, Forest at home and Burton away. Need to turn them draws into wins if we are to get into the promotion mix.
-
Its shoes and socks off time again.
-
I think it will be pretty clear what state we are in after those 6.
End up it 11 games and 11 pts and Bruce will get the chop.
We need to be on no less than 18 by that stage to keep in touch with the leading bunch.
-
Crikey that's a massive chance to pick up points. 4 wins minimum. The two away games are big opportunities too.
Yup. I said yesterday I see September as a great opportunity to pick up maximum points. There's some pretty easy games in there. It's just a shame we don't play on paper.
We need to be in full force going into October when we have a few tough games.
-
We are four points behind where Newcastle were going into the first international break this time last year. They had also lost two games by that time.
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
-
We are four points behind where Newcastle were going into the first international break this time last year. They had also lost two games by that time.
By 5pm tonight we could be 10 points behind the leaders which will be some achievement after only 5 games.
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
Surely last season's performance carries more weight than 1974-75?
In which case I don't think it is too early to be worried.
-
One key difference. The manager we had then and the one we are lumbered with now.
-
7 points from automatic spots.
-
We definitely need a run of victories quickly
Luckily we've a great opportunity to do that - and little excuse if we don't
But until we've had a few more games I see little point in obsessing on the league position or point differences - especially as the teams in automatic promotion positions seem unlikely to run away with the league
-
The fixtures in September come thick and fast. Six league games plus Boro in the League Cup. Those six fixtures all look winnable to me: four home games against moderate sides, plus two away games against the sort of sides we should be beating as a matter of routine. That's 18 pts up for grabs. We should realistically be looking for a points haul close to maximum from those games. Bruce will need to be on his toes, adopting a positive outlook, keeping a consistent team shape but shuffling the pack in an intelligent manner to keep individual players fresh and the team on the front foot. He has the squad to do it. What are the chances?
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
What points did Villa finish on to get promoted that year out of interest?
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
What points did Villa finish on to get promoted that year out of interest?
With 3 points for a win (which it wasn't) would have been 83 off 42 games.
-
Still early but second season in, 18th after five games is depressing.
-
Just had a quick look at Newcastle's and Brighton's results last season and neither of them had a five game run as bad as the one we've started with ALL season. The playoff format always gives you more of a chance but barring outstanding runs of form which I just can't see we've probably already fucked up automatic promotion.
-
And Burnley went on a run of 1 win in 8, losing three in the process. They won the league.
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
Don't forget it was Saunders first season and he was rebuilding a side that had lost its way a bit.
-
Just had a quick look at Newcastle's and Brighton's results last season and neither of them had a five game run as bad as the one we've started with ALL season. The playoff format always gives you more of a chance but barring outstanding runs of form which I just can't see we've probably already fucked up automatic promotion.
Nah, I think it's too early for that. I still stick to the old maxim that you only get a true picture after 10 games.
What struck me looking at the table is I doubt anyone expected Cardiff and Ipswich to be the top 2 and the former to have a 100% record.
-
And Burnley went on a run of 1 win in 8, losing three in the process. They won the league.
Fair point. They went the entire second half of the season without losing, winning 16 of those 23 games. I can't see us doing that. That's perhaps ingrained pessimism or more likely the evidence before my eyes of 40 games of Bruce.
-
It is early days but it shows how important a good start is. 8 points off 2nd place after 5 games is already piling the pressure on. If we do finally find a winning formula then its going to have to be a very impressive winning formula to make up the points. Another month of iffy results and you're looking at 15 plus points off the pace
-
Leeds strike me as being the real deal this season. They're currently grinding out a 1-0 win away at Forest playing much the same way as Newcastle and Brighton did last year.
-
Leeds strike me as being the real deal this season. They're currently grinding out a 1-0 win away at Forest playing much the same way as Newcastle and Brighton did last year.
They did look good
Mind you, they did draw their last two home games 0-0
But that does mean 4 clean sheets in a row. As much as people are complaining that we're not attacking enough, if you look at the results it's the lack of a single clean sheet this season that really stands out. I'd assumed we'd have had two or three by now.
So I disagreed with three at the back on Friday but I do understand why Bruce was looking to improve our defence
-
So I disagreed with three at the back on Friday but I do understand why Bruce was looking to improve our defence
I don't.
Our club needs to get in to the habit of winning and dominating teams, like we should with the squad we've got. So when the club has just come off the back of two 4-something wins let them do it again, don't fuck with the formation for fear of Bristol City scoring.
That's my biggest gripe with Bruce - he seems utterly preoccupied with the opposition. With the squad we've got we shouldn't give a shit about 90% of this division, we should be safe in the knowledge we'll score more than them and play to our strengths rather than worrying all the time about theirs.
-
And Burnley went on a run of 1 win in 8, losing three in the process. They won the league.
Fair point. They went the entire second half of the season without losing, winning 16 of those 23 games. I can't see us doing that. That's perhaps ingrained pessimism or more likely the evidence before my eyes of 40 games of Bruce.
I bet Burnley fans couldn't see them doing that either.
-
Since 2010 Aston Villa have had the worst away form of any side in any division
The suggestion we should be able to just stick our chests out and own the opposition doesn't seem right to me
-
Tonight wolves are 11'/4 to win the league and we are 18/1... how the fuck have we fallen so far in Midlands football let alone English football.
-
Since 2010 Aston Villa have had the worst away form of any side in any division
The suggestion we should be able to just stick our chests out and own the opposition doesn't seem right to me
You think we should continue with our current approach of, "we've been shit for years so we'll meekly turn up and hope for a draw"?
-
No I think it will be a struggle and ongoing improvement rather than simply turning it around
We didn't last season and that wasn't good enough. And the first two away games were even worse
I'm not happy we are where we are. But there are some quite encouraging signs in my view. Bruce still has a lot to do, but my position has always been that we do need stability at some point and the grass isn't always greener.
Norwich went down the Huddersfield route and it's clearly not working. People's favourite jokanovic has just gone three games without scoring. Dean Smith is bottom of the the league
-
I know it was very different times but I just had a look at our results for 1974-75 season. 3 draws, 1 win and a defeat from the first 5 games, didn't win away until 5th October, and then no further way wins until 4th January. Pretty mediocre up to Christmas to say the least and I doubt many of us were even contemplating promotion at that stage. We then won 8 of our last 9 away games and most of our home games from January onwards. Might just be a reminder that it's a bit early to be worried about getting cut-off from the promotion spots. But of course it would require us to go on a fairly lengthy winning streak at some stage.
Don't forget it was Saunders first season and he was rebuilding a side that had lost its way a bit.
I wasn't criticising OMVF, far from it, just using it as an example of how pretty much half a season can be Meh! but rescued by an exceptional other half. But of course as someone has pointed out above we had the great Ron Saunders in charge back then to inspire that exceptional run. And now we have Bruce......
-
So I disagreed with three at the back on Friday but I do understand why Bruce was looking to improve our defence
I don't.
Our club needs to get in to the habit of winning and dominating teams, like we should with the squad we've got. So when the club has just come off the back of two 4-something wins let them do it again, don't fuck with the formation for fear of Bristol City scoring.
That's my biggest gripe with Bruce - he seems utterly preoccupied with the opposition. With the squad we've got we shouldn't give a shit about 90% of this division, we should be safe in the knowledge we'll score more than them and play to our strengths rather than worrying all the time about theirs.
Is the correct answer
the majority of teams in this league are shit but bruce shits himself of going all out against bristol fucking city
-
Just had a quick look at Newcastle's and Brighton's results last season and neither of them had a five game run as bad as the one we've started with ALL season. The playoff format always gives you more of a chance but barring outstanding runs of form which I just can't see we've probably already fucked up automatic promotion.
Both lost twice early on last season so neither were invincible early on.
We really need to get motoring though, plenty of winnable games next month but we need to go out like v Norwich and win them convincingly.
-
Since 2010 Aston Villa have had the worst away form of any side in any division
The suggestion we should be able to just stick our chests out and own the opposition doesn't seem right to me
You think we should continue with our current approach of, "we've been shit for years so we'll meekly turn up and hope for a draw"?
Its the Bruce way.
-
When you hear how loud our fans are when we play away, it comes through clearly on the radio and telly even in spells of games when we're not on top, our record outside of VP is a joke. How can it feel like an away game with thousands of us lot all bunched together and making noise? There's no excuse for how meek and shit we are.
Ipswich presumably turn up for away games in the north with a minibus full of famers #sorrySuffolkurgr8
-
Allready it is looking unlikely based on points but more importantly momentum.
How long can Xia let this drift before the probability goes from very difficult to almost impossible,?
-
Come 10pm Tuesday we will, most likely be at least 10 points behind automatic promotion. After 7 games!
-
How long before the thread is renamed relegation maths? If ourselves and Small Heath both go down we can get excited about more third division glory days and they can try to win their favourite trophy again.
-
Won 1 draw 3 lost 3 was our record at the start of the 1987/88 promotion season. It's the only hope I'm still clinging on too.
-
Won 1 draw 3 lost 3 was our record at the start of the 1987/88 promotion season. It's the only hope I'm still clinging on too.
Was the win 2-0 at Leicester? We also won 2-0 at Albion not long after. And 0-1 at Huddersfield. Hopefully there is an omen there.
-
Won 1 draw 3 lost 3 was our record at the start of the 1987/88 promotion season. It's the only hope I'm still clinging on too.
Was the win 2-0 at Leicester? We also won 2-0 at Albion not long after. And 0-1 at Huddersfield. Hopefully there is an omen there.
I think so...the problem is I think we only lost 1 of the next 20 games, I'm not sure this lot is capable of that.
-
Won 1 draw 3 lost 3 was our record at the start of the 1987/88 promotion season. It's the only hope I'm still clinging on too.
Was the win 2-0 at Leicester? We also won 2-0 at Albion not long after. And 0-1 at Huddersfield. Hopefully there is an omen there.
I think so...the problem is I think we only lost 1 of the next 20 games, I'm not sure this lot is capable of that.
I think the players are.
-
Pretty frightening when you look at what we need to do.
40 games left, 20 wins would get us 66 points so we pretty much need a 50% win ratio from now just to make the the play offs.
-
Only if we plan on losing the other 20.
-
Already the season is panning out like last year did. No away wins and even though we're unbeaten at home, we've drawn 2 out of the 3 games.
We're going to need two spells this season where we do stuff like win 5 out of 6 games, it just dosen't look likely in our present state.
-
I don't think maths is going to help us. Can we rename this thread to 'much-awaited advent of existential promotion nihilism'?
-
The probablity of promotion may be expressed as:
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/65c4d0c6db14685663e754e1dc7d0ce72572cf4e)
Where B = Brucey Blunderballs.
In layman's lingo; fergetaboutit, we are fucked by a fuckwit.
-
Where are we now with 40 matches to go.
In all seriousness ? So we can get the maths to Dr Tony and tell him Bruce needs to start winning or global premier league football for us is being delayed !
-
Allready it is looking unlikely based on points but more importantly momentum.
How long can Xia let this drift before the probability goes from very difficult to almost impossible,?
I'm amazed that no one appears to be looking at the numbers. It's clear our season is over much as it was this stage last year. Some heads need to roll for this shit.
-
Allready it is looking unlikely based on points but more importantly momentum.
How long can Xia let this drift before the probability goes from very difficult to almost impossible,?
I'm amazed that no one appears to be looking at the numbers. It's clear our season is over much as it was this stage last year. Some heads need to roll for this shit.
no where near
i thought there was plenty of time for Bruce last year to turn it round so i'm not going to think any different now
a new manager with some idea of what he's doing will have plenty of matches to make the play offs at least, depending when we make the change obviously
-
Allready it is looking unlikely based on points but more importantly momentum.
How long can Xia let this drift before the probability goes from very difficult to almost impossible,?
I'm amazed that no one appears to be looking at the numbers. It's clear our season is over much as it was this stage last year. Some heads need to roll for this shit.
no where near
i thought there was plenty of time for Bruce last year to turn it round so i'm not going to think any different now
a new manager with some idea of what he's doing will have plenty of matches to make the play offs at least, depending when we make the change obviously
John, you used a lot of words there to say he's talking shite.
Season over after 6 games, get to fuck.
-
No way the season is over now, or even was when Bruce came in last season. If Bruce had averaged 2 points per game and taken 70 from the 35 he was in charge for last year, we would have just made the play-offs. Everyone seems content with the squad this season, so no reason a good manager couldn't average 2 points per game or slightly higher. I do think automatic promotion (for those who thought it was ever on) is one or two games from slipping away though.
-
No way the season is over now, or even was when Bruce came in last season. If Bruce had averaged 2 points per game and taken 70 from the 35 he was in charge for last year, we would have just made the play-offs. Everyone seems content with the squad this season, so no reason a good manager couldn't average 2 points per game or slightly higher. I do think automatic promotion (for those who thought it was ever on) is one or two games from slipping away though.
At the end of last season I said that if we couldn't see automatic promotion with Bruce, we should change. Many people said they could. Otherwise why keep a manager that can only get you as far as the lucky dip.
To me, a Bruce team never cries out 'automatic promotion '.
-
No way the season is over now, or even was when Bruce came in last season. If Bruce had averaged 2 points per game and taken 70 from the 35 he was in charge for last year, we would have just made the play-offs. Everyone seems content with the squad this season, so no reason a good manager couldn't average 2 points per game or slightly higher. I do think automatic promotion (for those who thought it was ever on) is one or two games from slipping away though.
At the end of last season I said that if we couldn't see automatic promotion with Bruce, we should change. Many people said they could. Otherwise why keep a manager that can only get you as far as the lucky dip.
To me, a Bruce team never cries out 'automatic promotion '.
I never expected automatic promotion with him either. I guess with the benefit of hindsight I would have been happy with a change, but I wasn't exactly shouting for Bruce to be sacked at the end of last season. All this talk of giving him a 'pre-season' fooled me.
-
We are already needing a fantasy run of games to get us an automatic place.
Looks like we are allready accepting the play offs as the target.
Bruce won't achieve either and god knows who might come in.
-
If we are giving up on automatic promotion, we may as well change now and bring in a progressive manager with a view to the future. It might just give the breathing space we need to develop a good team to creep into the play-offs but hit them with momentum of the team in form.
-
No way should Aston Villa be giving up on automatic promotion in this shit league and the simple fact that it already seems to have gone proves Bruce has failed.
-
Giving up on automatic promotion after 6 games seems a tad early. Not that I think he will get us anywhere near promotion if he stops.
-
I think we can put the abacus away for another season, we're utter mince.
-
Lock this damned thread.
-
There's enough games left to get right back in the mix, and I still believe we have the players to do it. However I don't believe we have the managers and coaches to do it, and every game Bruce is in charge make us going up less likely.
-
There's enough games left to get right back in the mix, and I still believe we have the players to do it. However I don't believe we have the managers and coaches to do it, and every game Bruce is in charge make us going up less likely.
Mathematically yes but realistically I don't think so.
The decision to give Bruce the summer and what was left of the Cheque Book (as so many were advocating) has done for us.
He has bought in players that are way past thier best or not good enough. The names in this squad flatter to decieve.
We can not buy our way out of this because of FFP.
Wyness has backed this manager to the hilt and when forced will probably bring in Moyse ( because the options are extremely limited) who will have the ready made excuse of not enough time, not his players, no money in the kitty.
This whole set up reeks of failure.
-
Garbage. This squad is comfortably the strongest in this league.
-
Garbage. This squad is comfortably the strongest in this league.
Garbage, the results would tend to suggest otherwise.
-
To me results and performances suggest the manager hasn't got a clue and is draining the confidence of the players.
Put this way, 1, 0, 1, 4, 1, 0, 0. That's league goals for this season, there is no way imo this squad should have scored only 3 goals in 6 of the games.
-
I agree that this Manager is not getting the best out of the squad, I am not convinced that they are any where near as good as they need to be.
-
Who jas a better squad then? That northern pish we playee tonight?
This squad is as Dave suggested, good enough to be promoted before you've finished eating all your Easter eggs.
-
I agree that this Manager is not getting the best out of the squad, I am not convinced that they are any where near as good as they need to be.
You may well be right on both counts. But we can get a better manager immediately. Better players will take more time. Upgrade what we can now seems wise.
-
Who jas a better squad then? That northern pish we playee tonight?
This squad is as Dave suggested, good enough to be promoted before you've finished eating all your Easter eggs.
You got your wish, we are stuck with the bloke that created it.
I get my information from the results and the league table.
-
How much information do you get in hiding?
-
There's enough games left to get right back in the mix, and I still believe we have the players to do it. However I don't believe we have the managers and coaches to do it, and every game Bruce is in charge make us going up less likely.
Mathematically yes but realistically I don't think so.
The decision to give Bruce the summer and what was left of the Cheque Book (as so many were advocating) has done for us.
He has bought in players that are way past thier best or not good enough. The names in this squad flatter to decieve.
We can not buy our way out of this because of FFP.
Wyness has backed this manager to the hilt and when forced will probably bring in Moyse ( because the options are extremely limited) who will have the ready made excuse of not enough time, not his players, no money in the kitty.
This whole set up reeks of failure.
I used to think we had a decent squad, but I am bringing to do e round tour your thinking. Same mistakes over and over again.
-
The squad is as immobile as Abraham Simpson.
-
7 games gone. 7 points in the bag.
Average for automatic promotion in 46 game season is 87 points. So over 2 points a game now required for that.
-
Ouch. Thats pretty hard to imagine happening with things as they are.
-
The squad isn't as good as some of us think.
People open say 'Bjarnasson's not a footballer' 'Lansbury is useless' 'Hogan couldn't hit a barn door'. 2 of these 3 started last night, with the other kept out the team by a rookie who hasn't yet scored a senior goal. That's over a quarter of the team many openly say are below the required standard to be top 2.
We have some good players; Chester, Kodjia, Hourihane, Snodgrass now. I don't think we have the squad or enough pace or chemistry to be a top 2 side though. Under a brighter manager, top 6 for me.
-
The squad isn't as good as some of us think.
People open say 'Bjarnasson's not a footballer' 'Lansbury is useless' 'Hogan couldn't hit a barn door'. 2 of these 3 started last night, with the other kept out the team by a rookie who hasn't yet scored a senior goal. That's over a quarter of the team many openly say are below the required standard to be top 2.
We have some good players; Chester, Kodjia, Hourihane, Snodgrass now. I don't think we have the squad or enough pace or chemistry to be a top 2 side though. Under a brighter manager, top 6 for me.
Exactly how I see it.
-
Except none of those 3 would get into our best 11. As backup, options from the bench or injury cover they'd be fine in a squad that was coached properly.
-
Except none of those 3 would get into our best 11. As backup, options from the bench or injury cover they'd be fine in a squad that was coached properly.
Everyone keep saying 'the squad' is good enough for top 2, but when we have a couple of injuries (Kodjia, Onomah, Green) - the likes of Lansbury, Bjarnasson and Gabby/Hogan/Davis get game time and I don't feel we will win enough games with them to be right up there, whoever the manager is.
-
But that's kind of the point I think, who else has a player as good as Hogan as a back up striker? Or Lansbury as back up in midfield, or can bring on a player like Adomah as a sub? For all we think of Gabby as being shit. he's caused problems and worried the opposition in most games he's played, and that's our 3rd/4th choice striker that we think is shit. Every side at this level is screwed a fair bit if they lose their best player in any position because squad depth is crap down here, we're better equipped than most to deal with it I reckon.
-
That's the problem Hogan Lansbury have been awful .
Elmo has been crap. Bjarny boy can't play football, Taylor is average at this level.
Our 2 central midfield stoppers are old and limited.
So we are relying on Chester, Snodgrass Kodija and Jack when when fit + Hourihane who has had very few good games.
We have some promising youngsters but you can not build a promotion campaign on them.
The squad looks unbalanced and has been randomly put together.
-
That's the problem Hogan Lansbury have been awful .
Elmo has been crap. Bjarny boy can't play football, Taylor is average at this level.
Our 2 central midfield stoppers are old and limited.
So we are relying on Chester, Snodgrass Kodija and Jack when when fit + Hourihane who has had very few good games.
We have some promising youngsters but you can not build a promotion campaign on them.
The squad looks unbalanced and has been randomly put together.
I don't think Hogan has been awful, that Taylor is average at this level or that Elmo has been crap
But there you go
-
I'm curious how many left backs in this division are better than Taylor?
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
AVTV + ESPN 3
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
What is the matter with you? you want me to give an analisys of all the teams above us in the league?
No, it's much more fun reading your predictions and post match excuses.
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
What is the matter with you? you want me to give an analisys of all the teams above us in the league?
No, it's much more fun reading your predictions and post match excuses.
Stop being a cupcake!
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
What is the matter with you? you want me to give an analisys of all the teams above us in the league?
No, it's much more fun reading your predictions and post match excuses.
I'd expect to you be able to justify your opinion. Maybe that's asking a lot of somebody fearful of Percy shooting him.
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
What is the matter with you? you want me to give an analisys of all the teams above us in the league?
No, it's much more fun reading your predictions and post match excuses.
I'd expect to you be able to justify your opinion. Maybe that's asking a lot of somebody fearful of Percy shooting him.
I think you need a lie down.
-
I think you should do this through private messaging
-
Why, Percy isn't opening fire is he?
-
That's the problem Hogan Lansbury have been awful .
Elmo has been crap. Bjarny boy can't play football, Taylor is average at this level.
Our 2 central midfield stoppers are old and limited.
So we are relying on Chester, Snodgrass Kodija and Jack when when fit + Hourihane who has had very few good games.
We have some promising youngsters but you can not build a promotion campaign on them.
The squad looks unbalanced and has been randomly put together.
I like Hogan, i don't think he's been awful and Barny can obviously play football, not sure what you're on about there. Lansbury has been poor though.
-
Hogan has hardly done a thing of note since signing and Barney looks out of his depth so I don't see much controversy in what CL has said.
-
What is it, one league goal from Hogan? I've got a bit of sympathy for the lad in terms of not playing to his strengths and I've still some hope he might come good but to call him anything but a flop so far would be inaccurate in my view.
-
I don't think he's been awful. It's not quite happened for him yet but I do think there's a decent player in there.
-
The thing is we're talking about players here who generally don't start for us but would be regulars in 90%+ of sides in this division. We should be absolutely pissing this division with this group of players. The reason we're not is the man telling them not to attack.
-
I'm curious how many left backs in this division are better than Taylor?
I thought he was poor on Tuesday evening.
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
Maybe that's the issue.
Bruce can't see properly from where he is and needs a different viewpoint.
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
Maybe that's the issue.
Bruce can't see properly from where he is and needs a different viewpoint.
Maybe.
Calderwood "Boss, we need defensive training drills and you need to get a couple of midfielders further forwards".
Bruce - "Righto, Col, what do you suggest?"
Calderwood - "I have a plan but it will take hours on the training ground"
Bruce - "Fuck it, do that Col. I am off on holiday".
It is still like fucking Butlins at BMH.
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
Maybe that's the issue.
Bruce can't see properly from where he is and needs a different viewpoint.
Maybe.
Calderwood "Boss, we need defensive training drills and you need to get a couple of midfielders further forwards".
Bruce - "Righto, Col, what do you suggest?"
Calderwood - "I have a plan but it will take hours on the training ground"
Bruce - "Fuck it, do that Col. I am off on holiday".
It is still like fucking Butlins at BMH.
I was saying that tongue in cheek of course.
Calderwood doesn't have it in him either.
One of the very telling things for me on Tuesday was the point where Lansbury was sent off. They had about half a dozen players immediately head to their bench for instructions and ideas whilst ours either argued with the ref or stood around gawping. There didn't seem to be any instruction or plans given. I know our formation changed again afterwards but it seems that they are left to their own devices when out there.
-
So you're well placed then to tell us who Is better exactly. Unless this is a Jota moment where endless balloons on social media queue up to tell us how great a player they've never seen kick a ball is.
What is the matter with you? you want me to give an analisys of all the teams above us in the league?
No, it's much more fun reading your predictions and post match excuses.
Stop being a cupcake!
Haha. Very good.
-
I don't think he's been awful. It's not quite happened for him yet but I do think there's a decent player in there.
Awful would be a bit harsh, but he has been very ineffective (not all his fault I accept) and seems to be getting worse. He just doesn't look like he has a goal in him at the minute.
-
I'm interested as to how much Championship football you get on US TV to be able to comment one way or the other.
Maybe that's the issue.
Bruce can't see properly from where he is and needs a different viewpoint.
Maybe.
Calderwood "Boss, we need defensive training drills and you need to get a couple of midfielders further forwards".
Bruce - "Righto, Col, what do you suggest?"
Calderwood - "I have a plan but it will take hours on the training ground"
Bruce - "Fuck it, do that Col. I am off on holiday".
It is still like fucking Butlins at BMH.
I was saying that tongue in cheek of course.
Calderwood doesn't have it in him either.
One of the very telling things for me on Tuesday was the point where Lansbury was sent off. They had about half a dozen players immediately head to their bench for instructions and ideas whilst ours either argued with the ref or stood around gawping. There didn't seem to be any instruction or plans given. I know our formation changed again afterwards but it seems that they are left to their own devices when out there.
I don't think that's particularly fair, seeing as they got worse when we went down to 10 men and we continued to dominate having shuffled the pack about a bit.
-
I reckon Boro were dead on their feet by the time it went 10 v 10 after 65 mins, having decided to sit in and chase the ball around playing for the point after going a man down so early.
-
Maybe, but they halved the pitch they were playing in but barely coming into our half.
Man City against Everton it was not.
-
75 more points required.
-
All those points from the draws seem more significant now, bolstered by the win today, five points from a possible nine and only seven off top. Again we find ourselves back in a position where 'nothing is off the table' in terms of promotion again- season is alive again, for now.
-
I've just looked at the table. It's 10 points from 24.
-
5 points off the top 6 is probably the closest we've been to the play offs in a year.
Did we get that close in the run up to xmas when we were on a good run?
-
Looking at the top 6, and which teams we'd actually need to overtake
1 Leeds
2 Wolves
3 Cardiff
4 Preston
5 Ipswich
6 Sheff Utd
I don't see the teams 3rd - 6th being in the promotion mix-up at the end of the season, however Wolves and Leeds have unfortunately stolen quite a bit of a march on us. <Bruce mode>The away game vs Wolves is really not one we can afford to lose</Bruce mode>. Nevertheless, with Kodjia back and on the back of Barnsley's confidence boost, I can see us being in the playoff spots in the not too distant future.
-
We're only 7 points off automatic promotion which should be the only objective, not "there or there about".
-
Looking at the top 6, and which teams we'd actually need to overtake
1 Leeds
2 Wolves
3 Cardiff
4 Preston
5 Ipswich
6 Sheff Utd
I don't see the teams 3rd - 6th being in the promotion mix-up at the end of the season, however Wolves and Leeds have unfortunately stolen quite a bit of a march on us. <Bruce mode>The away game vs Wolves is really not one we can afford to lose</Bruce mode>. Nevertheless, with Kodjia back and on the back of Barnsley's confidence boost, I can see us being in the playoff spots in the not too distant future.
Preston easily could. Played Sheff Weds, Cardiff, Leeds and Boro and didn't concede a goal in any of those games.
-
As Huddersfield showed last season, if you have a good start and build some momentum and confidence anything is possible. From early in the season until well into the New Year some folks on here were saying there was no chance they'd finish top 6. So I wouldn't discount any of them. I have a feeling that won't be the top 6 at the end of the season mind.
-
Ipswich will certainly drop, Mick's done well but they'll lose form once they play some of the better teams in the league as their two defeats indicate.
Warnock will keep Cardiff around the top 6 but don't see them having enough to challenge for top 2.
Sheffield United could be outsiders. Got that momentum vibe about them.
Leeds and Wolves are here to stay.
Good thing is there's no Newcastle or Brighton standard team in the league. Part of the reason I wrote off promotion so early last season was due to those two being so damm consistent. I don't get the feeling of anyone above us so yes automatic promotion is still possible if we can string a few wins together in the next two weeks.
-
Leeds squad is paper thin. We will see how they are doing in March.
-
Jellyface was on the radio this morning and stated he had built a squad that would be challenging the playoffs by the end of the season
A bit of wee came out
-
Wolves look very impressive going forward with that guy on-loan from Atleti the best player in the division at the moment. If they keep him and Costa fit I think they'll be too strong for anyone else.
Fulham and Reading have started even worse than us which is encouraging.
-
Cardiff will slide towards mid table by xmas.
-
Agree Wolves have some players that are just much too good for this league.
We've got the stronger squad overall
-
A different spot of maths.
On Oddschecker we are currently about 7th/8th favourite for promotion at between 9/2 and 6/1 to get promoted. Enough to be worth a punt ?
Wolves are favourite in just about all the bookies at around evens... I think thats too short.
-
On Oddschecker we are currently about 7th/8th favourite for promotion at between 9/2 and 6/1 to get promoted. Enough to be worth a punt ?
Would you bet against us?
-
On Oddschecker we are currently about 7th/8th favourite for promotion at between 9/2 and 6/1 to get promoted. Enough to be worth a punt ?
Would you bet against us?
No way are we going up this year.
-
Lets call it off now then.
-
Lets call it off now then.
Now what we gonna do?
-
I think we will have a decent run in September which will keep Bruce in the job.
Then comes the International break and a run of tricky fixtures which will be too much for " I don't do tactics me" by then it will be too late to do anything but soldier on towards mid table mediocrity.
-
Cardiff will slide towards mid table by xmas.
Warnock is too canny for that. He can keep momentum going. They'll be in contention for a play off.
-
Our record this season compared to this time last
Now - W 3 D 4 L 2 F 12 A 10 Pts 13
Then - W 1 D 6 L 2 F 9 A 9 Pts 9
Much better platform to build on now compared to a year ago. Keep winning away and you never know.....
-
Next two games are winnable. We simply must get the job done. Get those bloody points.
-
Next two games are winnable. We simply must get the job done. Get those bloody points.
On the one hand I hate the phrase winnable as any and every game is winnable, loseable and drawable.
But despite hating the phrase, like most if not all people I find myself using it.
-
I've just checked and burton's results are pretty good at home: drew with Wednesday, beat Fulham
This will be tougher than I'd appreciated. A win will be an excellent result
-
I've just checked and burton's results are pretty good at home: drew with Wednesday, beat Fulham
This will be tougher than I'd appreciated. A win will be an excellent result
Burton lose more than they win and are usually hovering above the relegation places but get respect for their wins and get a free pass from fans and media for their defeats as they are very much the smallest club in the championship.
-
Win the next and it is 19 from 11?
I make that somewhere around 78 for the season, so play off form. A minimum of 4 from the next 2 is required. I don't think the top 2 (Leeds and Wolves) are going to be caught very easily this season, we are looking at the play offs if we are going up.
-
Next two games are winnable. We simply must get the job done. Get those bloody points.
On the one hand I hate the phrase winnable as any and every game is winnable, loseable and drawable.
But despite hating the phrase, like most if not all people I find myself using it.
True.
From now on I'll say, we should be winning this game.
So we should be winning the next two games.
-
I've just checked and burton's results are pretty good at home: drew with Wednesday, beat Fulham
This will be tougher than I'd appreciated. A win will be an excellent result
Burton lose more than they win and are usually hovering above the relegation places but get respect for their wins and get a free pass from fans and media for their defeats as they are very much the smallest club in the championship.
They've been spanked several times away from home. But only lost once, 1-0 to Cardiff, at home so far this season
From what I've seen the games are generally horrible, on a tight pitch and low scoring
-
How costly are those 2 recent draws going to be at the end, just 2 more goals would have us just 3 points behind the automatic two places.
-
A draw against Burton gives us 3 wins from 10. That won't get you in the top 2, or even playoffs.
Drawing games we should have won means 3 points here is a must. Same with Bolton on Saturday.
Our two previous league wins should have us going into this all guns blazing. I expect a win.
-
Hardly seems like we've done anything this season yet we're 9th in the league which is much better than this time last year.
-
Could really do with carrying on and winning the next 2 as well, that would put us firmly in the top 6 I reckon, and within a couple of wins of the top 2.
-
This season vs last same stage last season, doesn't overly prove anything, i'm just bored.
W3 D4 L2 F12 A10 GD+2 Pts 13
W1 D6 L2 F9 A9 GD0 Pts 9
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
-
I thought the minimum we should get from the september games is 4 wins and 2 draws. I am a little bit surprised we're still on for that.
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
I think Bolton will be easy but Burton will be tough
Am I a half full mug?
-
This season vs last same stage last season, doesn't overly prove anything, i'm just bored.
W3 D4 L2 F12 A10 GD+2 Pts 13
W1 D6 L2 F9 A9 GD0 Pts 9
Deano's Mullet posted it above you and now I'm repeating it!
I'm hoping Bolton don't change their manager this week and get a ''bounce'' on Sat when we play them in a frustrating 0-0 at VP. Beating Burton would be great but I don't know if our lot are cut-out to win regularly away yet. Four points from six in the coming week I think is what we'll get.
-
I thought 7 points this week was the minimum
But 9 is doable
-
I thought 7 points this week was the minimum
But 9 is doable
In two matches? Yes lets go for that - Bruce out!
-
Beat Bolton and that would be 14 points for this month which is what I was looking for.
Important we get the points on the board as next month is looking very tricky with the fixtures.
Way I see it is September has got us nicely into play off contention. October will show how far or not we're off automatic promotion challenge.
SB has done well but he's still got a bit to prove e.g can we got to a Wolves, play well and win or will we see a return of the hang onto a point for dear life tactics?
-
Beat Bolton and that would be 14 points for this month which is what I was looking for.
Important we get the points on the board as next month is looking very tricky with the fixtures.
Way I see it is September has got us nicely into play off contention. October will show how far or not we're off automatic promotion challenge.
SB has done well but he's still got a bit to prove e.g can we got to a Wolves, play well and win or will we see a return of the hang onto a point for dear life tactics?
As much as I congratulate him for the last 3 wins, I worry that he loves a point much more than a gamble.
-
Not beating Hull, Cardiff, Boro or Reading suggests we are flat track bullies. But if we can gain confidence by beating the likes of Barnsley, Burton and hopefully Bolton then we gain confidence and momentum. I believe tonight was Burton's heaviest ever defeat in this division. I also like the way we are gaining points and moving up the table is making the promotion maths more simple.
Maybe I am wrong about it being their heaviest defeat and possibly it is their heaviest home defeat in this league?
-
They shipped 5 at Leeds a few weeks back.
Burton are a tough nut to crack at home though, the results show that.
-
Bolton haven't won in 30 Championship away games. They've lost 22 of those.
They haven't scored for 10 hours.
Who they got next?
-
Bolton haven't won in 30 Championship away games. They've lost 22 of those.
They haven't scored for 10 hours.
Who they got next?
Who you gonna call?
The Villa!
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
I think Bolton will be easy but Burton will be tough
Am I a half full mug?
Yep.
😜
-
Bolton haven't won in 30 Championship away games. They've lost 22 of those.
They haven't scored for 10 hours.
Who they got next?
Don't you predict us to lose every game?
-
Our fixtures are much tougher after the international break
If we're still right in the mix after them, things are definitely looking up
-
Our fixtures are much tougher after the international break
If we're still right in the mix after them, things are definitely looking up
Wolves, Fulham, Small Heath, Preston and Sheffield Wednesday have a very difficult game coming up in October/November.
-
Our fixtures are much tougher after the international break
If we're still right in the mix after them, things are definitely looking up
Wolves, Fulham, Small Heath, Preston and Sheffield Wednesday have a very difficult game coming up in October/November.
Correct. The shoe is on the other foot now.
-
All that we need is a play off slot- and good form going into it.
-
Bolton haven't won in 30 Championship away games. They've lost 22 of those.
They haven't scored for 10 hours.
Who they got next?
We used to smash Bolton all the time at home in the prem. Ah the memories of Megson parking his back 4 on the halfway line against Young and Gabby.
Think it will be a 2/3-0 win.
-
Bolton haven't won in 30 Championship away games. They've lost 22 of those.
They haven't scored for 10 hours.
Who they got next?
We used to smash Bolton all the time at home in the prem. Ah the memories of Megson parking his back 4 on the halfway line against Young and Gabby.
Think it will be a 2/3-0 win.
I'll raise you and go 4or5 -0. Unfortunately Bolton are very shoddy and are the whooping boys.
Kodjia to shine hat trick to get going and keep in track.
Top 2 margin hopefully reduced after and definitely with other fixtures can gain points and places after Saturday
-
Good results tonight. I can see Wolves and Sheffield Wednesday being there or there abouts at the end of the season.
Blues and Sheffield United won't be.
-
I think Carvalhal will be potted sooner rather than later.
Sheffield United have momentum and play decent stuff. For me their squad much of the current top 7 is paper thin, so it will be interesting to see who drops out.
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
Any mugs about?
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
Any mugs about?
Me.
If the definition of mug is 'expecting your 'ambitious' club with a 'top class manager' to beat two very poor teams who have no finances in comparison'.
-
We need to win the next two and push on from there. But anyone who thinks that they will be easy wins is a mug.
Any mugs about?
Me too.
We should expect to comfortably beat a Bolton team that has not won this season and hasn't scored in 7 games. I expect at least three goals too.
-
2016/17 Season Total points(Average Points) after...
22 games
Newcastle. 49(2.2)
Brighton. 48(2.18)
Using Brighton's stats from last season, the next quarter of our season is going to be crucial for automatic promotion. The pressure on Bruce is not going to let up especially as we're playing catch-up. Both Newcastle and Brighton amassed 27 points from games 12-22(inc) last season, Brighton winning 8 and drawing 3, Newcastle winning 9 and losing 2. Bruce is going to have to better their records to ensure we are in the mix for automation promotion. The only saving grace for Bruce is that Cardiff, Wolves, Sheffield Utd and Leeds are not Brighton or Newcastle and may not amass at least 48 points after 22 games, but we can't afford to rely on that. We have to do our best to get to this target irrespective of what other teams are doing! This is not being hysterical or crisis raking, this is just being factual. Over to you Bruce! UTV
-
85 points may be enough for auto I reckon this season. I really don't see any team going on 10 match winning runs like I presume Newcastle and Brighton did last season.
Leeds have looked poor away from home lately and hopefully Sheff Weds can wake up and take a point off them today. Boro can't get their away form going at all either.
Probably of all them I'd say Wolves could well go on a winning streak but there's still another automatic place in play.
We're on course for 80 points over the season so despite a very dodgy start we're not that far away at all.
-
Got my optimistic head on...
I think 7 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats should be enough to have us in the playoff places by x-mas, and looking at the fixtures that's exactly what i think we'll get.
Wolves D
Fulham W
Blues D
Preston L
Sheff Wed W
QPR W
Sunderland W
Ipswich W
Leeds L
Milwall W
Derby D
Sheff Utd W
Although that is assuming we don't lose a few players from Kodjia, Adomah, Snodgrass, Chester, Terry, Johnstone.
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
-
We did beat forest and Norwich too of course - scoring six in two games - and got an increasingly creditable draw at Bristol (I seem to recall a lot of histrionics after that one)
The only black mark is Cardiff away really - though it was a big one!
I think it's just an unknown.
I am a bit worried we'll be jaded v Wolves though
-
As will they be I reckon
-
As will they be I reckon
I know they've got loads of Portugeezers, but I'm not sure how many of them are playing international football? Aren't they mostly in the 21-23 bracket?
-
Ruben Neves is in the Portugal under 21 squad.
-
His form has bottomed out of late.
-
We did beat forest and Norwich too of course - scoring six in two games - and got an increasingly creditable draw at Bristol (I seem to recall a lot of histrionics after that one)
The only black mark is Cardiff away really - though it was a big one!
I think it's just an unknown.
I am a bit worried we'll be jaded v Wolves though
The criticism about Bristol was quite rightly questioning 532 on the back of Norwich apparently showing us the template for how the team should be set up.
As far as black marks go, you left out Reading which was as abject as Cardiff performance wise.
-
I was focused on the teams nearer the top as we were talking about whether we'd do well against better sides
-
Interesting to see how Reading are struggling, they seem to be missing their old fella up-front who's out injured. It's a pity we didn't play them a month later, I'd have fancied our chances of winning home or away against them at the moment.
-
Reading massively overachieved last season for their squad.
Losing the play off final is very hard to recover from aswell.
-
Ok, enough of this international bollocks.
Points in October against wolves, Fulham and scum. I'm going for undefeated, 7 points and for us to be 4th by Halloween.
I don't see our defence letting in more than a couple of goals and I think Kod will fully find his twinkly boots again.
-
I reckon a bit of a wobble and 4 points
Think the Woves game will be tough and I can see Fulham playing out lots of possession in a dull draw
-
I haven't followed this thread but to cut a long story short we need 56 points from 35 games for a top six finish. Doesn't sound too challenging does it?
-
I haven't followed this thread but to cut a long story short we need 56 points from 35 games for a top six finish. Doesn't sound too challenging does it?
How much for a top two? I'd prefer to avoid that play off malarkey.
-
I haven't followed this thread but to cut a long story short we need 56 points from 35 games for a top six finish. Doesn't sound too challenging does it?
How much for a top two? I'd prefer to avoid that play off malarkey.
If we only get around another 56 points and just about scrape into the top six, I wouldn't fancy our chances in the play-offs.
The reason for sticking with Bruce was that he was going to get us automatic promotion according to most. Are our expectations slipping.
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
Which hairs are you trying to split?
-
I haven't followed this thread but to cut a long story short we need 56 points from 35 games for a top six finish. Doesn't sound too challenging does it?
How much for a top two? I'd prefer to avoid that play off malarkey.
To answer your question, on average 87 points total to get automatic places. To guarantee it you would be looking about 92, so a tidy 2 points per game.
-
pfft, so we can even afford to not win a few games? Easy. ;D
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
Which hairs are you trying to split?
He's just telling the truth. Like I said, that's how the fixtures fell. Does it matter where they are in the league as long as we get the three points?
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
Which hairs are you trying to split?
He's just telling the truth. Like I said, that's how the fixtures fell. Does it matter where they are in the league as long as we get the three points?
The results suggest we have done well against the bottom teams and not so well against the higher teams.
We need to start getting results against all teams if we are going up.
This starts with wolves on Saturday, if he gets a result then you can start to argue he is beginning to fulfill the mandate he has been given.
A defeat will be a massive blow to our ambitions.
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
Which hairs are you trying to split?
He's just telling the truth. Like I said, that's how the fixtures fell. Does it matter where they are in the league as long as we get the three points?
The results suggest we have done well against the bottom teams and not so well against the higher teams.
We need to start getting results against all teams if we are going up.
This starts with wolves on Saturday, if he gets a result then you can start to argue he is beginning to fulfill the mandate he has been given.
A defeat will be a massive blow to our ambitions.
We've only lost two games though, one of which was Cardiff who are still up there. We can only play who we're down to play and we're not going to get results against all the teams, that's just not going to happen.
-
We haven't played against enough of the top teams yet to know whether we can really give them a game home and away
So it's wait and see for me
I don't think we can play 442 all the time so it will be interesting to see what he does
4 of our 5 wins have been against teams in the bottom 7.
That's how the fixtures fall. I'm just glad we've won them.
Were they in the bottom 7 when we played them or are they there now? i.e. as a result of losing to us. Anyone that's lost to us could say they've lost to a Top 7 team but as we've only just got there, the truth is they lost to teams lower down the league...
Which hairs are you trying to split?
He's just telling the truth. Like I said, that's how the fixtures fell. Does it matter where they are in the league as long as we get the three points?
The results suggest we have done well against the bottom teams and not so well against the higher teams.
We need to start getting results against all teams if we are going up.
This starts with wolves on Saturday, if he gets a result then you can start to argue he is beginning to fulfill the mandate he has been given.
A defeat will be a massive blow to our ambitions.
If a defeat is a 'massive blow' is a win a massive boost?
If we lose away against Wolves, it will be the first league defeat in 8 games. I'm not sure why it would be a massive blow, though obviously we'd all be disappointed.
-
Yes a win would be a massive boost, I think in the context of a season some games become pivotal.
Getting beat would indicate that we don’t have what it takes to get results from the better teams in this league and we ain’t getting promoted if that is the case.
-
Yes a win would be a massive boost, I think in the context of a season some games become pivotal.
Getting beat would indicate that we don’t have what it takes to get results from the better teams in this league and we ain’t getting promoted if that is the case.
So why not say that? Instead of focusing on the negative?
Why did you suggest I was splitting hairs? My point was that it's all relative especially this early in the season. The unbeaten run we've been on puts some credit in the bank, our season won't be won and lost in the next game.
-
Yes a win would be a massive boost, I think in the context of a season some games become pivotal.
Getting beat would indicate that we don’t have what it takes to get results from the better teams in this league and we ain’t getting promoted if that is the case.
Every team will lose at least one away game. Even the ones that get promoted.
-
I think the point is this game punches above it's weight - it's more than mere points.
A win would be huge boost in so many ways, beating the top team in the league away from home, taking points from a promotion rival, a local derby and probably most important keeping our good run going. It would be a massive confidence boost and maybe the validation that many fans are looking for that yes, this could be the real deal.
A loss on the other hand, whilst only 3 points and against one of the best teams in the division, would end the run and just allow the doubt to start creeping back in, certainly for the fans and maybe in the dressing room.
Yes it's only one game and losing would by no means be the end of the world, but don't under estimate what a fantastic impact a win could have on our season.
-
Wolves have played Cardiff, Sheffield United and Bristol City. They've taken one point.
Are they frauds too?
-
Wolves have played Cardiff, Sheffield United and Bristol City. They've taken one point.
Are they frauds too?
Yes.
Next question?
-
What is my favourite colour?
-
What is my favourite colour?
If it's not claret, you're wrong.
-
Can I start a thread for the match or is it too early?
-
Could be bad ju-ju.
-
I will leave it then. :)
-
Yes a win would be a massive boost, I think in the context of a season some games become pivotal.
Getting beat would indicate that we don’t have what it takes to get results from the better teams in this league and we ain’t getting promoted if that is the case.
One game isn't going to prove that much one way or the other
-
Can I start a thread for the match or is it too early?
No one but me starts any match related threads, we've won 3 in a row since I started doing them, we're not jinxing it now!
-
pillar box ginger. next
-
Can I start a thread for the match or is it too early?
No one but me starts any match related threads, we've won 3 in a row since I started doing them, we're not jinxing it now!
Well go on then - there is f*ck all to discuss at present
-
Yes a win would be a massive boost, I think in the context of a season some games become pivotal.
Getting beat would indicate that we don’t have what it takes to get results from the better teams in this league and we ain’t getting promoted if that is the case.
One game isn't going to prove that much one way or the other
But say we lose this one game, and were 10th/11th, 7 points behind the top 2, after 12 games of the season. Would that tell us something?
Alternatively, if we win, we're in the top 6 and a maximum of 2 points off a top 2 place. We're solidifying the foundations we have laid over the last few weeks.
I think this is a massive game. A 'six pointer' some would say.
-
I'm going to go all Brucey and say a draw against a top rival would be a good result, a win would be excellent. Lose though and we would give a lot of ground to a main rival for the automatic places.
-
Rightly or wrongly, I think Bruce is likely to approach the Wolves games as "not lose" rather than "must win". Cardiff have a good chance to extend their lead over us to 8pts by the time we play Wolves if they beat Blose on Friday night, and if we do lose then we'll be 7pts behind Wolves, so avoiding defeat does make sense...it just doesn't fill me with confidence knowing the pressure that we would be under if he sets us up defensively or changes formation again as we don't have the pace in the team to play counter attacking football. It's not as if we're playing Barcelona, so it would be a welcome surprise if we play on the front foot and go for the win.
-
Can I start a thread for the match or is it too early?
No one but me starts any match related threads, we've won 3 in a row since I started doing them, we're not jinxing it now!
I will leave it to you then. Looking forward to it 8)
-
I'm going to go all Brucey and say a draw against a top rival would be a good result, a win would be excellent. Lose though and we would give a lot of ground to a main rival for the automatic places.
Not too worried if they go 8 points clear or whatever at this stage of the season.
This time last year we were 8 points off top 6. Great we're in the mix now.
-
I think our best chance is to play on the break, especially down the channels of their back three, and to be a threat from set pieces
So I don't mind a more reactive game plan as long as we pack a punch. A Leicester city style you might say
If we end up drawing then I'm happy
I note that Wolves haven't actually won by more than one goal at home this season so I don't think we should be too fearful
-
In the play off places now
-
Boro and Leeds being massively overhyped this season is good news.
-
Unfortunately we only look good against bottom half shite.
-
Next 2 games are pretty huge to get back on the horse. Can't afford a confidence collapse like last year.
-
Boro and Leeds being massively overhyped this season is good news.
For Wolves and Cardiff, yes.
-
I think we will have a decent run in September which will keep Bruce in the job.
Then comes the International break and a run of tricky fixtures which will be too much for " I don't do tactics me" by then it will be too late to do anything but soldier on towards mid table mediocrity.
File under most fukin obvious prediction
-
Looks like Wolves are matching the hype, be amazed if two other teams in this division can finish above them.
They'll get automatic promotion comfortably. We're in a scrap with everyone else for 2-8th.
-
Boro and Leeds being massively overhyped this season is good news.
For Wolves and Cardiff, yes.
Cardiff were awful last night
-
Boro and Leeds being massively overhyped this season is good news.
For Wolves and Cardiff, yes.
Cardiff were awful last night
And yet they beat Wolves away and walloped us.
I'd rather be where they are in the table.
-
We will be in the top 6. We should be in the top two.
-
We will be in the top 6. We should be in the top two.
Expectations have allready been lowered by the Bruce campaign to play off places.
Next it will be as long as we are mid table and beat blose every now and then.
-
Watford are currently 4th. I reckon there's more chance of them staying there than us getting in the top 2
-
Think we're on course for about 67 points? Clearly not automatic but is that play-off points?
Big test now to bounce back against Fulham and Blose. Make or break time for Bruce.
-
Need 70 + for play offs.
We'll still be in the mix as we have enough to beat the bottom half teams home and away so the points will build up that way.
To be top 2 though you need much more. To actually beat a top 6 contender a couple of times a season. We're hardly done that since we've been down here which is very worrying.
-
It looks like we're playing for second place now with Wolves probably taking top spot. Cardiff and Sheffield Utd are currently matching Brighton's progress last season, point for point. For us to match Brighton last season, we need 29 points from the next 30 (10 wins!). It isn't going to happen!!! We'd better hope for a Cardiff/Sheffield Utd collapse, otherwise all we can hope for is a crack at the lottery of the playoffs. This fills me with dread knowing our luck and the record of Bruce in trying to achieve this with us in 35 games last season
-
Need 70 + for play offs.
We'll still be in the mix as we have enough to beat the bottom half teams home and away so the points will build up that way.
To be top 2 though you need much more. To actually beat a top 6 contender a couple of times a season. We're hardly done that since we've been down here which is very worrying.
Wolves have beat one top six contender, us. We beat Fulham next week bouncing back, so will we.
We were very poor yesterday no doubt.
-
Wolves were very good yesterday but equally we were dreadful. Gave them far too much time and space and offered no threat going forward so they could commit as many forward as they liked. They lost comfortably to Sheff Utd a couple of weeks ago so they're not invincible. Bruce as ever in any tough away game was more concerned about the opposition and forgot we also need to give them something to think and worry about.
-
Agree with that, he might get some good runs but the default mindset seems to be negative, when we've gone into games letting the opposition worry about us then we've looked so much better.
I dont suppose he's going to change at this stage of his career.
-
The game I always refer to is Bristol City away. We'd just scored 8 goals in two games then we went there and he changed the system and was more concerned about nullifying the opposition. It's Bristol City for feck sake, not Man City. We've spent millions and it should be us taking the game to any team in this league because let's face it this league is shite.
-
As disappointing as yesterday was, we're mid way through October and we're 7th, a point off the play offs and 5 points off second. It could and should be better but it's not too bad overall.
-
Need 70 + for play offs.
We'll still be in the mix as we have enough to beat the bottom half teams home and away so the points will build up that way.
To be top 2 though you need much more. To actually beat a top 6 contender a couple of times a season. We're hardly done that since we've been down here which is very worrying.
Wolves have beat one top six contender, us. We beat Fulham next week bouncing back, so will we.
We were very poor yesterday no doubt.
They beat Boro on the opening day.
Sheff United did beat them but they were down to 10 men for 75 minutes which impacts on things. Would anyone fancy us to get a result if we had a red card after 20 minutes?
-
Yesterday was a chance to show that we are a real force, capable of automatic promotion.
We showed nothing of the sort.
-
Wolves will win this league, of that I'm sure. They gave us a proper lesson yesterday.
-
Wolves will win this league, of that I'm sure. They gave us a proper lesson yesterday.
Agree, and it's a dent in our automatic promotion hopes if 1 place looks already taken.
-
Wolves will win this league, of that I'm sure. They gave us a proper lesson yesterday.
Agree, and it's a dent in our automatic promotion hopes if 1 place looks already taken.
I think they’ll be a lot of twists and turns before anyone lifts the trophy at the end of the season.
-
The Preston game looks a dangerous one in a couple of weeks. That said, November has the potential to be another profitable month against teams you'd like to think we can beat. If we have another September over the next half dozen games we could really be knocking on the door.
-
The game I always refer to is Bristol City away. We'd just scored 8 goals in two games then we went there and he changed the system and was more concerned about nullifying the opposition. It's Bristol City for feck sake, not Man City. We've spent millions and it should be us taking the game to any team in this league because let's face it this league is shite.
It was a mistake. But at that point in time our away form had been hopeless for over two years. We'd frequently just buckled under and sort of pressure. So I can see why he wanted to solidify
But yeh it was definitely a mistake
-
Home form will get us top 6.
Away form will decide how close or how far we get to top 2.
We really need a better mentality away from home and that I fear will see us just miss out on automatics.
-
Do not go to the Temple Of Doom next week and play for a draw. Bruce needs to forget that it's a derby and think they're on a par with Barnsley and Burton who beat 3-0 and 4-0. If we go there to win and take the game to them we'll smash them.
-
Forget it's a derby and we will get beat.
-
We were terrified of losing it last season and didn't cross the halfway line second half. Fortunate to get a draw in the end. We need to go there with a positive approach and let our quality take over.
-
We were terrified of losing it last season and didn't cross the halfway line second half. Fortunate to get a draw in the end. We need to go there with a positive approach and let our quality take over.
Probably due to the early days of SB but I remember many on here defended that approach. It was pathetic and sadly we've seen it's our standard in most away games.
We need to start being much more positive otherwise top 2 will remain elusive. SHA are decent at home but they're obviously miles off Wolves standard.
My worry is SB will think his job will come under massive pressure again if we lose it and so will set up to reflect that.
-
Win tomorrow and we're 4th. No more incentive needed surely. And the surefire runaway leaders singles lost.
-
4 points from the next two away games and we've got a great chance of making the top 2 within the next month.
-
Plenty of results went our way today. Whisper it, but this league may be opening up for us. Win tomorrow, up to 4th, 5pts off the top and we're looking to chase down Blades and Dingles sooner rather than later.
-
Plenty of results went our way today. Whisper it, but this league may be opening up for us. Win tomorrow, up to 4th, 5pts off the top and we're looking to chase down Blades and Dingles sooner rather than later.
Tomorrow will tell me if we have the bottle for a title challenge.
-
Plenty of results went our way today. Whisper it, but this league may be opening up for us. Win tomorrow, up to 4th, 5pts off the top and we're looking to chase down Blades and Dingles sooner rather than later.
Tomorrow will tell me if we have the bottle for a title challenge.
Agreed. It's in our own hands. We have the squad, we have the ability. Do we have the belief and the leadership to make the most of the quality and the strength in depth?
-
I think tomorrow is exactly the sort of game we bought Terry for.
-
Plenty of results went our way today. Whisper it, but this league may be opening up for us. Win tomorrow, up to 4th, 5pts off the top and we're looking to chase down Blades and Dingles sooner rather than later.
Or, if we lack the balls for a fight, we could be 13th come Wednesday evening. That's how close it is.
We failed in the last big test against Wolves. Let's see if we have moved on from that debacle.
-
Plenty of results went our way today. Whisper it, but this league may be opening up for us. Win tomorrow, up to 4th, 5pts off the top and we're looking to chase down Blades and Dingles sooner rather than later.
Or, if we lack the balls for a fight, we could be 13th come Wednesday evening. That's how close it is.
We failed in the last big test against Wolves. Let's see if we have moved on from that debacle.
Certainly. It will only open up for us if we grab the chance. We bottled it v Dingles. Time to step up v Blues.
-
Nailed-on draw it is then.
-
I think tomorrow is exactly the sort of game we bought Terry for.
Football?
-
Unfortunately, my prediction of 4-5 points in November came true.
Another tough game on Wednesday. I suppose a point would be seen as a good result by most. The trouble is, with too many draws, it makes it difficult to push on in to that top 2.
-
Unfortunately, my prediction of 4-5 points in November came true.
Are you clairvoyant?
-
Unfortunately, my prediction of 4-5 points in November came true.
Are you clairvoyant?
Nope. Never heard of her.
-
4 points from the next two away games and we've got a great chance of making the top 2 within the next month.
Hang on, you're saying the way we set up means we won't reach Top 2. Yet we've drawn today and are therefore on target with your prediction for Top 2.
-
At the risk of being attacked again, I'm going to make a prediction of 11 points from November.
-
At the risk of being attacked again, I'm going to make a prediction of 11 points from November.
I want to attack you for saying you're going to be attacked. But I can't be arsed.
-
At the risk of being attacked again, I'm going to make a prediction of 11 points from November.
I want to attack you for saying you're going to be attacked. But I can't be arsed.
It's easy. Just start off by claiming I'm being 'overly negative', and go on from there.
-
4 points from the next two away games and we've got a great chance of making the top 2 within the next month.
Hang on, you're saying the way we set up means we won't reach Top 2. Yet we've drawn today and are therefore on target with your prediction for Top 2.
Wanted 4 points from these two games so pressure on us to win at Preston.
Will we even win 10 away games this season? Don't see how we can get top 2 if that is the case. We're obviously going to drop points at home between now and May so that's where just nicking draws away from home falls down.
-
Difference to last season though is that no way will 2 teams run away with it like Newcastle and Brighton. I can see 6 or 7 in contention for automatic inc us.
-
I would agree with that.
We need minimum of 60 more points this season to be in with a serious chance of top 2 so pretty much 20 wins. I'd say 10 away wins needed.
-
4 points from the next two away games and we've got a great chance of making the top 2 within the next month.
Hang on, you're saying the way we set up means we won't reach Top 2. Yet we've drawn today and are therefore on target with your prediction for Top 2.
Wanted 4 points from these two games so pressure on us to win at Preston.
Will we even win 10 away games this season? Don't see how we can get top 2 if that is the case. We're obviously going to drop points at home between now and May so that's where just nicking draws away from home falls down.
Hang on, there's no pressure on us. You saying there's pressure doesn't mean there is any. We're 2nd in the form table. A win would be good but isn't essential.
-
Using Brighton's stats from last season, after yesterday's draw, we now cannot match Brighton's total points haul after 22 games (virtually half the season) which was 48. Bristol City can if they win their next 8 games (unlikely). Cardiff are on track, whereas Sheffield Utd and Wolves are currently on track to exceed 48. All things considered this makes our task of achieving auto promotion more difficult. To stand any chance we need to start winning more away fixtures (clearly 2 out of 7 isn't good enough), whilst maintaining solid home form where the focus again should be on wins rather than draws.
-
At the risk of being attacked again, I'm going to make a prediction of 11 points from November.
You're being overly negative again
-
At the risk of being attacked again, I'm going to make a prediction of 11 points from November.
You're being overly negative again
You're thinking 12, aren't you?
-
Using Brighton's stats from last season, after yesterday's draw, we now cannot match Brighton's total points haul after 22 games (virtually half the season) which was 48. Bristol City can if they win their next 8 games (unlikely). Cardiff are on track, whereas Sheffield Utd and Wolves are currently on track to exceed 48. All things considered this makes our task of achieving auto promotion more difficult. To stand any chance we need to start winning more away fixtures (clearly 2 out of 7 isn't good enough), whilst maintaining solid home form where the focus again should be on wins rather than draws.
Er, statistically, thats not quite right. Yes Brighton did get to 48 points in 22 games BUT over the whole season finished with 93 points for 2nd place from 46 games. That is the first time in 10 years automatic promotion was achieved with over 2 points a game. In fact, being picky, as Reading finished in 3rd with only 85 points, Brighton would only have needed 86 points to achieve promotion.
Whichever way you cut it, if a team averages 2 points a game over the whole season, they will get promoted. That should be our only target. At the moment we are 5 points off that target. Although the top 3 are all at or above that points average I think Cardiff and Sheff Utd dont have good enough squads to keep it up.
A point away to SHA isnt below target, but it hasnt helped us catch up, As others have said, the catching up has to be done away from home, and for me that meams Kod getting back to last seasons' form.
-
5 points behind our automatic promotion target doesn't sound to bad. Until you equate it to needing to have bettered our current points total by nearly 22%.
We won't draw ourselves to promotion, especially from where we are. But, I just know, if we draw away at Preston there are many, Bruce included, who will come out and say it's a good result.
Bruce needs to be brave before it's too late and we're relying on the playoff lottery. Games come and go very fast in this division.
-
5 points behind our automatic promotion target doesn't sound to bad. Until you equate it to needing to have bettered our current points total by nearly 22%.
We won't draw ourselves to promotion, especially from where we are. But, I just know, if we draw away at Preston there are many, Bruce included, who will come out and say it's a good result.
Bruce needs to be brave before it's too late and we're relying on the playoff lottery. Games come and go very fast in this division.
Our away record will do for us,particularly now as we are trying to play catch up.
-
Down to 8th at the moment. Bristol City, Derby, Boro all flying. Need to win tomorrow and start to win away regularly at decent opposition.
-
In fairness I do think we'll have a good run up to xmas. Ipswich, Sunderland, Sheff Weds and Millwall the home games, I'd fancy 10 points from that. Aways at PNE, Leeds, QPR and derby. Tricky but again 7-8 points is realistic.
If we can be on 40 points going into the xmas period I think that's a good first half of the season particularly given our start.
-
If any other club had lost 1 in 11 they would be classed as flying..when it's us people knock our away form. Shall we wait until tomorrows result before all the doom sets in?
-
Leeds have lost 6 of their last 7 games and their last 3 at home. We need to be winning games when teams like them are on a bad run to capitalise and put some distance between us.
Wolves will win the league. I still think Cardiff and Sheff Utd won't keep up their pace so for me 2nd is still anyone's. It all lies with Bruce and how he has us play away from home. If we start to believe we've got the quality to beat anyone in this league and start to believe we can win away against good sides then we can be right up there. Play how we did at Wolves and Small Heath and we'll struggle to make the play offs.
-
Good chance to put 3 points between us and 6th spot while also closing the gap on the top to 6 points.
-
Leeds have lost 6 of their last 7 games and their last 3 at home. We need to be winning games when teams like them are on a bad run to capitalise and put some distance between us.
Wolves will win the league. I still think Cardiff and Sheff Utd won't keep up their pace so for me 2nd is still anyone's. It all lies with Bruce and how he has us play away from home. If we start to believe we've got the quality to beat anyone in this league and start to believe we can win away against good sides then we can be right up there. Play how we did at Wolves and Small Heath and we'll struggle to make the play offs.
With respect mate I don't think you can judge our prospects in a 46 game season on whether we played poorly in 2 local derbies or not. At least we are capable of putting good runs together nowadays...that is something that would enable us to get in to at least the play offs
-
Pains me to say it but Wolves look superb every time i see them
Comfortably the best side I've seen in this league. Got to hope it all tails off. Though at the moment I think we probably playing for second place
Nuno has done an outstanding job. Pretty jealous
-
Pains me to say it but Wolves look superb every time i see them
Comfortably the best side I've seen in this league. Got to hope it all tails off. Though at the moment I think we probably playing for second place
Nuno has done an outstanding job. Pretty jealous
Plenty of football yet to play and loads of twists and turns to come.
-
Yep. You've got to hope our squad strength and experience really come to the fore
Plus the freshness of players like grealish, green, Jedinak, Kodjia. Once they get up and running
-
Nothing wrong with 2nd place. You even get some sort of trophy for it to go with the Intertoto.
I would be targeting that. Something is wrong if we can't be confident of overhauling Cardiff or Sheffield United with 30 games left.
-
I'd take second of course
It just narrows the odds a lot
-
A win today will start to cement our place in the top 6 - rather than 'in out, in out, shake it all about' - then we can start thinking about the top 2.
-
Unlike the league above us; with our current squad, the team mentality should be geared towards winning the Championship. Wolves are not invincible.
-
Granted Wolves are a good team but I'm still to be convinced they've got what it takes to sustain their form. A couple of injuries will really test their squad.
Plus like most West Midland teams, they do have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot. I think all the promotion spots are as open as I've ever seen in the Championship this year.
I honestly believe that if we maintain this form teams will fear us more because we're Aston Villa, maybe that sounds arrogant but fuck em, Man Utd did it for years in the Prem.
-
Agreed on the last part. Us at the right end of the table, on a run, should scare the shit out of the teams above us.
-
If only the teams below us would show the same respect.
-
Today was a bad day but you're always going to have them in this division.
Newcastle lost home and away to Blackburn last season.
Worry if we don't beat Sunderland and Ipswich. I expect a decent points haul up to xmas.
Loving the table at the bottom btw. Will be some good trips for Walsall next year.
-
Today was a bad day but you're always going to have them in this division.
Newcastle lost home and away to Blackburn last season.
Worry if we don't beat Sunderland and Ipswich. I expect a decent points haul up to xmas.
Loving the table at the bottom btw. Will be some good trips for Walsall next year.
How many more bad days in this division can we afford?
-
Today was a bad day but you're always going to have them in this division.
Newcastle lost home and away to Blackburn last season.
Worry if we don't beat Sunderland and Ipswich. I expect a decent points haul up to xmas.
Loving the table at the bottom btw. Will be some good trips for Walsall next year.
How many more bad days in this division can we afford?
Loads. Newcastle lost 10 times last season. Today was only our fourth defeat with just over a third of the season gone.
You could feasibly lose 15 games and get promoted if you barely drew a game.
We're still in the top 6 aren't we?
-
Today was a bad day but you're always going to have them in this division.
Newcastle lost home and away to Blackburn last season.
Worry if we don't beat Sunderland and Ipswich. I expect a decent points haul up to xmas.
Loving the table at the bottom btw. Will be some good trips for Walsall next year.
How many more bad days in this division can we afford?
Loads. Newcastle lost 10 times last season. Today was only our fourth defeat with just over a third of the season gone.
You could feasibly lose 15 games and get promoted if you barely drew a game.
We're still in the top 6 aren't we?
Yes and top 6 is the new top 2apparently.
-
I want top 2 but let's at least establish ourselves in the play offs and try to build from there.
-
I want top 2 but let's at least establish ourselves in the play offs and try to build from there.
We all do mate, I just don’t think Bruce will do it.
-
I think we'll finish top 6 comfortably.
I agree lots of work to do to get top 2.
-
I can see us nearly getting top 2.
-
If Leeds and Boro both win then we'll be out of top 6. Derby and Ipswich both have games in hand as well. Nonetheless overall I'm reasonably pleased with our record since the last international break, I was worried about it beforehand. Minimum 10 points from next 5 to cement top 6 and hopefully cut gap to top 2.
-
We're going nowhere with one fit centre half. Samba doesn't count.
-
Today was a bad day but you're always going to have them in this division.
Newcastle lost home and away to Blackburn last season.
Worry if we don't beat Sunderland and Ipswich. I expect a decent points haul up to xmas.
Loving the table at the bottom btw. Will be some good trips for Walsall next year.
December looks as tough as fuck.
-
We're going nowhere with one fit centre half. Samba doesn't count.
Mad Tom says hello.
-
If Leeds and Boro both win then we'll be out of top 6. Derby and Ipswich both have games in hand as well. Nonetheless overall I'm reasonably pleased with our record since the last international break, I was worried about it beforehand. Minimum 10 points from next 5 to cement top 6 and hopefully cut gap to top 2.
Leeds are losing (Brentford will be in top 6 soon with form they're in).
Boro may win but they've been on an awful run recently let's not forget.
-
We draw too many to make up for the defeats. Imagine never drawing like Sheff Utd, it must be amazing. Still, with their resources it's difficult to compete.
-
We draw too many to make up for the defeats. Imagine never drawing like Sheff Utd, it must be amazing. Still, with their resources it's difficult to compete.
Add them and now Wednesday to the growing list.
-
Sheff Weds wage bill actually probably not that far off ours.
Look at how much their forwards cost, Rhodes was 10m and nearly as useless for them as Hogan is for us.
-
Cheer up everyone Leeds are losing again.
-
It's a bit of pass the way every other bugger lost and we stay 5th in such a tight league.
-
It's a bit of pass the way every other bugger lost and we stay 5th in such a tight league.
More of a "pass" for Wolves and Sheffield United, I would say.
-
On this date in 1987 we were third in the table. Three points behind Boro and six points behind Bradford, although we had played one game more than both of them. Eventual champions Millwall were seventh, four points behind us but with two games in hand on us. Our home record at that point was P10 W2 D5 L3, our away record was P10 W7 D2 L1.
-
On this date in 1987 we were third in the table. Three points behind Boro and six points behind Bradford, although we had played one game more than both of them. Eventual champions Millwall were seventh, four points behind us but with two games in hand on us. Our home record at that point was P10 W2 D5 L3, our away record was P10 W7 D2 L1.
Hello Damo, was it three points for a win then ? I'm trying to get some comparison with now into my head .
-
On this date in 1987 we were third in the table. Three points behind Boro and six points behind Bradford, although we had played one game more than both of them. Eventual champions Millwall were seventh, four points behind us but with two games in hand on us. Our home record at that point was P10 W2 D5 L3, our away record was P10 W7 D2 L1.
Hello Damo, was it three points for a win then ? I'm trying to get some comparison with now into my head .
Yes. Three points for a win. I'm pretty sure the last season of two points for a win was the year we won the title in 1981.
-
How many points did we get in the end?
-
How many points did we get in the end?
78 points.
Pipped Middleborough to 2nd place on 'goals scored'.
-
Shows how much tighter the league was back then top to bottom.
78 points wouldn't be anywhere near enough. 88 points and that should be enough.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
-
Yep an extra 2 teams so +4 games.
-
One extra team now, compared to 1987/88.
Points per game equates to 81-82 today, with the extra two games.
Not sure what the present day average is, for 2nd place.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
-
One extra team now, compared to 1987/88.
Points per game equates to 81-82 today, with the extra two games.
Not sure what the present day average is, for 2nd place.
Higher than that, it's usually 85-90 needed for 2nd now.
-
One extra team now, compared to 1987/88.
Points per game equates to 81-82 today, with the extra two games.
Not sure what the present day average is, for 2nd place.
Are you sure. An odd number of teams means one team missing out on a fixture each week. I don't remember that.
-
One extra team now, compared to 1987/88.
Points per game equates to 81-82 today, with the extra two games.
Not sure what the present day average is, for 2nd place.
Are you sure. An odd number of teams means one team missing out on a fixture each week. I don't remember that.
There were 21 teams in the first division and 23 in division two that 1987-1988 season. Two up (Millwall and Villa) and two down (Portsmouth and Oxford). Third placed Boro won a two leg play off against 19th placed Chelsea to go up and send them down. I must admit I can't remember there being those odd numbered amount of team or how they worked out the fixtures either.
-
If we can be in the play off mix come January id take it. This injury news is really going to be a problem
Obviously I don’t expect most people to give Bruce any leeway
-
8 to 10 points needed from the next four. Should be capable of that.
-
One extra team now, compared to 1987/88.
Points per game equates to 81-82 today, with the extra two games.
Not sure what the present day average is, for 2nd place.
Are you sure. An odd number of teams means one team missing out on a fixture each week. I don't remember that.
There were 21 teams in the first division and 23 in division two that 1987-1988 season. Two up (Millwall and Villa) and two down (Portsmouth and Oxford). Third placed Boro won a two leg play off against 19th placed Chelsea to go up and send them down. I must admit I can't remember there being those odd numbered amount of team or how they worked out the fixtures either.
Thanks. Passing of time and memory.
-
Win the next two home games and table will be looking very good I reckon particularly as everyone tells me Wolves are going to be dropping points when winter starts.....
-
The sides above us will all have sticky patches. We just need to be as consistent as possible throughout the season and be in a position to pick up points when the sides above us don’t.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
The match tickets cost fewer than twenty pounds back then. ;)
-
Looking at the table, its starting to break up a bit at the top, while the rest of us are in this "anyone down to 17th playoff" mini-league. Next two home games are vital. After them we'll know if automatic promotion has passed us by again.
-
No we won't.
-
No we won't.
We're 7 points off 2nd. Sheff U have 2 home games against blose and fulham next. If we don't match or better their points total, i can't see us catching them personally.
-
No we won't.
I think we would in the unlikely event thst we lost them both.
-
Of the four teams above us I think it will be hard to finish above Wolves, Cardiff and Sheffield United but I do think Bristol City's bubble will burst at some point. I think the two immediately below us (Boro and Derby) are a danger, especially Boro as I think they have underachieved so far but are still in the mix.
-
Of the four teams above us I think it will be hard to finish above Wolves, Cardiff and Sheffield United but I do think Bristol City's bubble will burst at some point. I think the two immediately below us (Boro and Derby) are a danger, especially Boro as I think they have underachieved so far but are still in the mix.
yeah i'd go along with that. I have a feeling there's still one team at least who will get right into the play-off places over christmas
-
I think wolves will remain strong all season
Wouldn’t at all surprise me if the wheels came off for the blades or Cardiff
But overall I suspect we are looking at the play offs
-
The blades lost one of their key players today for the season i see. Wouldn't wish that injury on anyone but with our squad this is where we should have the advantage over them in the long run.
-
Cardiff aren't that great away.
Sheffield United is the wildcard. You'd expect them to fall away but look at their form over the last 12 months. 100 points last season and they're winning most weeks.
It's a club that just can't stop winning.
-
We've still got to play the blades home and away. We can haul them in
-
We've still got to play the blades home and away. We can haul them in
That was a disgraceful missed opportunity to use the line 'blunt the blades' as opposed to 'we can haul them in'. You will never make a living in tabloid journalism.
-
We've still got to play the blades home and away. We can haul them in
That was a disgraceful missed opportunity to use the line 'blunt the blades' as opposed to 'we can haul them in'. You will never make a living in tabloid journalism.
...or mention their lovely big tits
-
After waiting most of the 2015/16 season to see my prediction of Leicester doing a Devon Loch, I wouldn't put it past Sheffield United to win this division.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
The match tickets cost fewer than twenty pounds back then. ;)
Less is used with both countable and uncountable nouns in the comparative form with than. Tickets cost less than twenty pounds (an amount). Which means fewer than twenty pound coins (units).
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
The match tickets cost fewer than twenty pounds back then. ;)
Less is used with both countable and uncountable nouns in the comparative form with than. Tickets cost less than twenty pounds (an amount). Which means fewer than twenty pound coins (units).
The less/fewer thing is one that grinds my gears too. Nonethefewer, I think we have to accept that language changes and this is one of the areas (in fact, area's) where it's currently about to become infuriatingly acceptable.
-
I still havent forgiven the world for "decimated" yet and don't get me started on "trillion".
Bastards.
-
What's wrong with decimated?
-
What's wrong with decimated?
It has come to mean wiped out or almost destroyed. It comes from one in ten. Julius would roll in his grave.
-
I see your decimated and raise you "medalled"
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
The match tickets cost fewer than twenty pounds back then. ;)
Less is used with both countable and uncountable nouns in the comparative form with than. Tickets cost less than twenty pounds (an amount). Which means fewer than twenty pound coins (units).
The less/fewer thing is one that grinds my gears too. Nonethefewer, I think we have to accept that language changes and this is one of the areas (in fact, area's) where it's currently about to become infuriatingly acceptable.
Yes, you hear people use 'less' with countable nouns so in usage it becomes more common. I do it at times. I try to take the drama out of grammar for my young learners by pointing out that you can make 'mistakes' and still communicate effectively (and that they will hear all sorts of stuff that they have been told was 'wrong': "he weren't", "I have took" etc. Nevertheless, they need to develop a coherent cognitive system around their language skills so, without being a prescriptive grammar Nazi, telling them they can do as they wish with certain words or forms is not always helpful:
doing your own thing with 'fewer/less' is not going to help you with 'few/little' much/many and so on.
-
Weren't there less teams in the league back then though?
Fewer.
Less works equally as well. As in, a smaller amount. I accept fewer is specific to numbers.
No, it doesn't. Less is for uncountable nouns and fewer is for countable nouns.
They play less football. There are Fewer teams.
Eat less chocolate. Eat fewer chocolates.
The match tickets cost fewer than twenty pounds back then. ;)
Less is used with both countable and uncountable nouns in the comparative form with than. Tickets cost less than twenty pounds (an amount). Which means fewer than twenty pound coins (units).
The less/fewer thing is one that grinds my gears too. Nonethefewer, I think we have to accept that language changes and this is one of the areas (in fact, area's) where it's currently about to become infuriatingly acceptable.
It had better fucking not
-
What's wrong with decimated?
It has come to mean wiped out or almost destroyed. It comes from one in ten. Julius would roll in his grave.
I know what the origins of the punishment are fella. I must be doing my "I'm a history nerd" gig wrong, was just curious as to the beef. For what it's worth Caesar didn't use it.
-
No, but Crassus did. See Spartacus
-
Surgeries
-
No, but Crassus did. See Spartacus
Crassus Clay as they called him in China. See Mohammed Ali.
-
No, but Crassus did. See Spartacus
Crassus Clay as they called him in China. See Mohammed Ali.
Somewhat crazily, Crassus and China may have a real link...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8154490/Chinese-villagers-descended-from-Roman-soldiers.html
-
Season warming up now, gap to 2nd back down to 5 points.
We're on course for about 80 points over a full season so not far off the form we need now.
-
4 games til the Christmas schedule starting with Sheffield Utd at home on 23rd December.
Ipswich h
Leeds a
Millwall h
Derby a
The teams above us are all averaging 2 points a game so 8 points is the minimum requirement just to keep in touch. So to me that means we need to win one of those 2 away games just to make up ground. That's how tough it is now especially with key players injured, but Bruce has to do that to get an automatic spot.
-
Should be aiming for 3 wins from those 4 games, but 8pts with 2 draws wouldn’t be bad considering the injuries we have at the moment. As long as we keep up with the 3 teams above us during December then we’ll be in with a good shout if we do some good business in January.
-
It'll be interesting to see how last night's defeat affects Sheff Utd, especially letting in 5 goals.
-
It'll be interesting to see how last night's defeat affects Sheff Utd, especially letting in 5 goals.
As likely to be buoyed by their late recovery and standing ovation from their fans at the end.
They're a great bunch of lads unfortunately and will take some stopping.
-
No, but Crassus did. See Spartacus
Yes I watched Bethany Hughes Channel 5 last Friday too.
-
Two points off second now pending the Cardiff and Sheffield games.
-
Also 6 points ahead of 7th for those weirdos thinking we won't finish in the top 6 this season. :D
-
Sheffield Utd behind to the scum !
-
Sheffield Utd behind to the scum !
Spoke too soon.
-
Injuries mounting up but hopefully not serious to Jedinak and Davis. The next few games are huge. Leeds, Derby and Sheffield United particularly. Tough games but if we want promotion........
-
We can deal w an injury to Jedinak but davis would be a disaster
-
Wolves will piss the league. It will be between us and Derby for 2nd imo. Then another 7/8 teams vying for the play offs.
-
Sheffield United are begining to creak.
Their last 5 games have been against sides 12th, 16th, 20th 21st and 23rd in league,which has yielded 2 wins, 2 defeats and a draw.
-
Agree, Ads. As I mentioned on the Other games/Post Match thread, I thought they were lucky to get the draw tonight. The Rags could have/should have been 2 or 3 up but for the stupidity of their players. Match most team's workrate and there's little to separate most of the division. With our squad depth and talent we should be able to push on over the winter.
Sheff Utd reminded me very much of us, maybe a bit more urgency to their game but no great shakes. I can't see them lasting the winter nevermind the season.
-
Is it me or does from December to end of the season look a bit daunting fixtures wise? Anyway I have predicted another 51 points for us. 86 in total.
-
Is it me or does from December to end of the season look a bit daunting fixtures wise? Anyway I have predicted another 51 points for us. 86 in total.
Isn’t it broadly a mirror image of August to December?
-
Yes, December does look horrible, not looked further than that. We might not need to if we have a bad December.
-
Is it me or does from December to end of the season look a bit daunting fixtures wise? Anyway I have predicted another 51 points for us. 86 in total.
Isn’t it broadly a mirror image of August to December?
I know I’m not doing logic. It just seemed like we had tougher fixtures away. I’m just being a Villa fan of late.
-
Sheff Utd are in the bag so next target is Cardiff. Hopefully they will slip tomorrow but I expect us to go past them sooner rather than later.
-
This is the table over last 20. I think this how it will finish come May 2018.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154778518207282&id=577652281&set=gm.10155967504093914&source=48&ref=m_notif¬if_t=feed_comment_reply
-
If as expected, Derby beat Ipswich during the week, the play off teams will have a 5 point gap against those chasing. Of those below only Boro and Leeds look likely to be able to catch up. Still early days, I know but realistically I can't see anybody else with the possible exception of Sheff Weds being in the race for the play offs.
Of course our target, given the strength of our squad, should only be to finish in the top 2.
-
Our fixtures are tough in December. I fancy us to do ok as long as we don’t get key players injured
But Cardiff’s fixtures look a lot easier and they could build up a bigger margin, even if we do ok
Thy have: Norwich, Reading, Hull, Bolton, Fulham, Preston
-
They'll struggle with those. Fulham will dob 'em and they'll get a lot of low-scoring draws. They're as dull as us.
-
A bit like the NFL's "Strength of Schedule", the following shows each teams SoS both Home and Away.
The lower the number - the tougher the schedule. As can be seen, we appear to have the 2nd hardest Home Schedule - which is no surprise as we have only played 1 of the Top 8 at Home.
And despite the fact they have now played at Sheff Utd - Blues still have the 'toughest' Away Schedule :P
This methodology is not as effective as in the PL - as we all know - there is more chance of 'upsets' in the Championship than in the PL.
(https://i.imgur.com/J61bSrJ.jpg)
-
A bit like the NFL's "Strength of Schedule", the following shows each teams SoS both Home and Away.
The lower the number - the tougher the schedule. As can be seen, we appear to have the 2nd hardest Home Schedule - which is no surprise as we have only played 1 of the Top 8 at Home.
And despite the fact they have now played at Sheff Utd - Blues still have the 'toughest' Away Schedule :P
This methodology is not as effective as in the PL - as we all know - there is more chance of 'upsets' in the Championship than in the PL.
This is excellent - nice work!
-
Thanks - the flip side of having the 2nd 'toughest' Home Schedule is that I'm sure we would much rather play the top teams at home than away.
-
A bit like the NFL's "Strength of Schedule", the following shows each teams SoS both Home and Away.
The lower the number - the tougher the schedule. As can be seen, we appear to have the 2nd hardest Home Schedule - which is no surprise as we have only played 1 of the Top 8 at Home.
And despite the fact they have now played at Sheff Utd - Blues still have the 'toughest' Away Schedule :P
This methodology is not as effective as in the PL - as we all know - there is more chance of 'upsets' in the Championship than in the PL.
(https://i.imgur.com/J61bSrJ.jpg)
Oh Jesus Strength of Schedule stats, it’ll be full of College football SEC and Big10 fans before you know it.
-
2 points as average for the season is the requirement = 92 points
Currently
Wolves played 19/44 points @ 2.3 pts per game
Cardiff Played 19/40 points @ 2.1 pts per game
Us Played 19/38 points @ 1.8 pts per game
We need 3 more wins on the bounce to get to 22 played and 44 points
Any draw or loss pushes that calculation further back
easy eh ::)
-
With 6 games to play, and some 'tough' ones at that, December will go a long way in showing if we're real contenders for the top 2.
Four wins, and a couple of draws, should put the pressure on the three above us.
-
2 points as average for the season is the requirement = 92 points
Currently
Wolves played 19/44 points @ 2.3 pts per game
Cardiff Played 19/40 points @ 2.1 pts per game
Us Played 19/38 points @ 1.8 pts per game
We need 3 more wins on the bounce to get to 22 played and 44 points
Any draw or loss pushes that calculation further back
easy eh ::)
We won't need 90 points to go up imo, think 85 points will be enough.
-
85 points MAY be enough but to guarantee promotion we need 2 points a game. No team achieving it has ever not got one of the automatic places.
-
so 17 wins 6 draws 4 defeats - sounds achievable
-
I refuse to believe Cardiff are getting 90 + points this season.
That's what I'm basing it on.
-
A bit like the NFL's "Strength of Schedule", the following shows each teams SoS both Home and Away.
The lower the number - the tougher the schedule. As can be seen, we appear to have the 2nd hardest Home Schedule - which is no surprise as we have only played 1 of the Top 8 at Home.
And despite the fact they have now played at Sheff Utd - Blues still have the 'toughest' Away Schedule :P
This methodology is not as effective as in the PL - as we all know - there is more chance of 'upsets' in the Championship than in the PL.
(https://i.imgur.com/J61bSrJ.jpg)
What in the name of f..... This is like my first lesson of pure maths A Levels discussing integration and differentiation and I think was the last time i openly cried
-
Crackin' post Moet.
-
😟
-
I like it Sir Steve,
-
Usually today would be a decent result, the problem is we will lose ground on those above us.
-
A point each was a fair result and a decent point considering our first half nonperformance.
We'd have certainly lost that game last season.
-
which in fact we did
-
To look on the bright side we definitely look good enough to stay in the playoff spots, but a gap of 7 points to 2 teams racking up over 2 points a game is going to take some closing when we don't have an effective no. 9 fit.
-
Looking at the teams around us playing today we could get off reasonably lightly. Sheffield U have Milwall away. Bristol C Have Boro at home (Neither forgone conclusions). Derby should beat burton at home, and ispwich have forest at home. A few draws would help us but with a bit of luck we'll still be 4th
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
From what? It's not like we've been top and fallen to fourth.
First target was to get in top 6 and establish ourselves which we have done.
Next step is to overhaul Sheffield and we're on the verge of doing it.
Then try and chip away at Cardiff's total. That will take time of course.
-
Pity Burton couldn't hang on at Derby. We have to go there and impose ourselves from the start.
-
Bristol hanging on in there.
-
Does anyone think the current top 6 will stay the same until May ? Last season I don't remember anyone coming with a late run to break into it. Sheff Utd look the most vulnerable although the chasing pack are so inconsistent - Boro Leeds Wednesday etc
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
From what? It's not like we've been top and fallen to fourth.
First target was to get in top 6 and establish ourselves which we have done.
Next step is to overhaul Sheffield and we're on the verge of doing it.
Then try and chip away at Cardiff's total. That will take time of course.
From 4th to 5th?
You said "small steps" - intimating forwards. I pointed out it's a small step backwards this weekend.
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
From what? It's not like we've been top and fallen to fourth.
First target was to get in top 6 and establish ourselves which we have done.
Next step is to overhaul Sheffield and we're on the verge of doing it.
Then try and chip away at Cardiff's total. That will take time of course.
From 4th to 5th?
You said "small steps" - intimating forwards. I pointed out it's a small step backwards this weekend.
Not really,we got a draw at Leeds which would be acceptable for any team Bristol City play Sheff U on Friday points are going to be dropped somewhere. You would hope we will beat Millwall at home.
Your glass is seriously half empty
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
From what? It's not like we've been top and fallen to fourth.
First target was to get in top 6 and establish ourselves which we have done.
Next step is to overhaul Sheffield and we're on the verge of doing it.
Then try and chip away at Cardiff's total. That will take time of course.
From 4th to 5th?
You said "small steps" - intimating forwards. I pointed out it's a small step backwards this weekend.
Not really,we got a draw at Leeds which would be acceptable for any team Bristol City play Sheff U on Friday points are going to be dropped somewhere. You would hope we will beat Millwall at home.
Your glass is seriously half full
Falling from 4th to 5th isn't a "small step backwards"?
You'll have to explain that one to me.
-
Falling from 4th to 5th isn't a "small step backwards"?
You'll have to explain that one to me.
It's not small, it's tiny as it is a result of one game. Let's judge at the end of the month but right now I see nothing worth complaining about. We're getting results even when we're not playing that well. I think we'll be third by the end of the month and creating a tidy gap between the teams below us. From there it's up to us to do what we can to chase Cardiff and hope they eventually come unstuck.
-
Should be third soon as Sheffield United are having a poor patch. Small steps.
It's a small step backwards at the moment.
From what? It's not like we've been top and fallen to fourth.
First target was to get in top 6 and establish ourselves which we have done.
Next step is to overhaul Sheffield and we're on the verge of doing it.
Then try and chip away at Cardiff's total. That will take time of course.
From 4th to 5th?
You said "small steps" - intimating forwards. I pointed out it's a small step backwards this weekend.
Not really,we got a draw at Leeds which would be acceptable for any team Bristol City play Sheff U on Friday points are going to be dropped somewhere. You would hope we will beat Millwall at home.
Your glass is seriously half full
Falling from 4th to 5th isn't a "small step backwards"?
You'll have to explain that one to me.
There are 46 games played in the Championship between August- May Each team has to play each other home and away, your standing in the league can alter week by week depending on your result and the result of teams around you , so there will be a bit of bobbing up a down between the top spots,thats the Championship. It's where we finish in May that matters.
I really don't understand why your stressing about us dropping from 4th to 5th. Providing we remain in contention it doesn't really matter does it ?
-
The poster I was responding to said, "Should be third soon as Sheffield Utd are having a poor patch. Small steps."
That sounds easy, but it's not just a case of worrying about Sheffield Utd. So i pointed out we actually made a small step this weekend. Backwards.
If you can show me we're still in 4th, and therefore I am wrong, then I'll retract my comment.
-
The poster I was responding to said, "Should be third soon as Sheffield Utd are having a poor patch. Small steps."
That sounds easy, but it's not just a case of worrying about Sheffield Utd. So i pointed out we actually made a small step this weekend. Backwards.
If you can show me we're still in 4th, and therefore I am wrong, then I'll retract my comment.
I couldn't care less if we're 4th or 5th in December to be honest, it's pretty meaningless. I'll start moaning if we become out of contention for the automatic spots. At the moment we're well in the mix.
-
Ah, I see. Moving from 4th to 3rd would be worth talking about, and a positive "small step", but dropping from 4th to 5th isn't worth mentioning.
That sounds a bit 'precious' to me. Any movement up or down, when your at the top or bottom end, is surely worthy of a mention. It's not "moaning" to point it out.
-
There's a thread in Off Topic for movements at the bottom end.
-
Ah, I see. Moving from 4th to 3rd would be worth talking about, and a positive "small step", but dropping from 4th to 5th isn't worth mentioning.
That sounds a bit 'precious' to me. Any movement up or down, when your at the top or bottom end, is surely worthy of a mention. It's not "moaning" to point it out.
So your expectation is that we win every game from here on in , yes ?
-
Ah, I see. Moving from 4th to 3rd would be worth talking about, and a positive "small step", but dropping from 4th to 5th isn't worth mentioning.
That sounds a bit 'precious' to me. Any movement up or down, when your at the top or bottom end, is surely worthy of a mention. It's not "moaning" to point it out.
So your expectation is that we win every game from here on in , yes ?
How did you get that from what I posted?
-
It’s a fair comment that we have regressed this week but that will happen from time to time. We must adopt a one step back two steps forward approach. We will not close down on Cardiff for about another 15 games so there are no quick fixes it’s a long battle.
-
We're a point off 3rd. It's not really a regression. I think the team will be feeling very positive after the Leeds result, they looked elated at the end.
-
Before this week's games we were 4th after we are 5th. Those are the facts. Team feeling elated is justified as they did very well coming back from a goal down however that does not alter facts.
-
I don't see how that disapproves what SHQ said though or where anybody has disagreed that we're 5th.
-
It’s a fair comment that we have regressed this week but that will happen from time to time. We must adopt a one step back two steps forward approach. We will not close down on Cardiff for about another 15 games so there are no quick fixes it’s a long battle.
I agree, analysing game by game fluctuations is fairly pointless but probably inevitable when we are all understandably fixated on promotion. The trend since the iffy start to the season has been in the right direction and there is no logical reason to assume that will change.
-
If anything can be learnt about Friday it's that we have resliaince and quality in depth to change things around and swing momentum.
-
We didn't play yesterday, other teams around us did so we moved places in the table. It'll probably happen again.
-
We didn't play yesterday, other teams around us did so we moved places in the table. It'll probably happen again.
We had the advantage of playing the day before everyone else, but didn't manage to move anywhere, so your point is mute.
Teams moved further away from us by 2 points, or went above us, due to doing better than us over the corresponding fixture.
You make it around like we had a disadvantage by not playing yesterday, which is not true.
-
We didn't play yesterday, other teams around us did so we moved places in the table. It'll probably happen again.
We had the advantage of playing the day before everyone else, but didn't manage to move anywhere, so your point is mute.
Teams moved further away from us by 2 points, or went above us, due to doing better than us over the corresponding fixture.
You make it around like we had a disadvantage by not playing yesterday, which is not true.
Well, we're a point better off and that's important. Table placing's don't mean too much at the moment anyway. We could be third next Saturday but that won't mean too much either, not at the moment anyway. As long as we're in amongst it and not totally adrift from the top two, then that's fine for me.
-
I don't understand your logic. We went away to a tough place and got a good point to make it 10 in 12. I'm not sure there's much to he concerned about, so early on and with the 4 teams above us so close and all to come to Villa Park.
Our strength comes in what we did to change the game and our injury situation. We are missing our spine and yet still had players of Lansbury and Grealish level of quality to come on and assist. That's what we have that nobody else in the top 6 does.
I would naturally have liked to win but almost a year to the day from my last trip to Elland Road I saw a repeat of a new found resiliance that has been absent for years. Four points away from home from losing positions.
I am confident we are going to be promoted automatically. Another 10 from the next four will have me further convinced.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
-
I think that if we can get to January in the form we are in now, the relevant additions will be made to get us up automatically. This really is opening up for us now.
-
I think that if we can get to January in the form we are in now, the relevant additions will be made to get us up automatically. This really is opening up for us now.
If we do that and others around us do the same (and no better), we will be 4th - 13 points behind Wolves and 9 points behind Cardiff - with over half the season gone.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
-
It's a good point at Leeds and keeps us taking more than 2 per game on average of late, which is what we need to do. It's a long season and I'm confident we have the ability to keep this going, based on the strength of our squad.
Over sides may make gains, but we had the hardest fixture of the weekend. Burton at home and Norwich at home isn't quite the same.
-
I think that if we can get to January in the form we are in now, the relevant additions will be made to get us up automatically. This really is opening up for us now.
If we do that and others around us do the same (and no better), we will be 4th - 13 points behind Wolves and 9 points behind Cardiff - with over half the season gone.
I think you're being deliberately obtuse. We might as well all call it a day now and just crack on with the Play Offs is nothing is going to change.
-
I think that if we can get to January in the form we are in now, the relevant additions will be made to get us up automatically. This really is opening up for us now.
If we do that and others around us do the same (and no better), we will be 4th - 13 points behind Wolves and 9 points behind Cardiff - with over half the season gone.
I think you're being deliberately obtuse. We might as well all call it a day now and just crack on with the Play Offs is nothing is going to change.
This is it. Teams will drop points. Sheff Utd have picked up 1 in their last 9 for example.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
I'm not sure I was trying to suggest anything with my original comment. I think I was adding a different perspective to 'keep doing what we're doing and then we're 3rd then 1 small step from 2nd'.
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
Just my opinion.
-
Other than Boro all the tops teams have still to come to Villa Park this season. That’s what’ll decide if we go up automatic or not, in my opinion.
-
I think that if we can get to January in the form we are in now, the relevant additions will be made to get us up automatically. This really is opening up for us now.
If we do that and others around us do the same (and no better), we will be 4th - 13 points behind Wolves and 9 points behind Cardiff - with over half the season gone.
I think you're being deliberately obtuse. We might as well all call it a day now and just crack on with the Play Offs is nothing is going to change.
I don't think that would be fair on the teams behind us though. They might think they have a chance of catching and passing some in the top 6.
No. I think it's only fair to play until the end of the season.
-
10 points from every 4 games would.
-
As a point of interest what is SB’s record of promotions via playoffs as against automatic promotion? I would be very confident if in the playoffs of getting to the Wembley ‘final’ as over the two legs I am sure we would get through, regardless of who we played. However, I could imagine that at Wembley he may revert to type and avoid losing rather than going for the win- I’m too old and with high blood pressure to be able to stand a penalty shoot out.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
-
10 points from every 4 games would.
It would. But we're not managing 2.5 points per game.
You're factoring in guaranteed home wins there which I have not mentioned. In fact, I think I can remember at least 4 slip-ups at home this season. Although I'm not sure where the respective opposition teams were at the time, so they could have been "good" single points or losses.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
No. We're almost certainly going to have to win "tough" games away, against teams lower than us, though.
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
No. We're almost certainly going to have to win "tough" games away, against teams lower than us, though.
So who are we allowed to draw against?
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
No. We're almost certainly going to have to win "tough" games away, against teams lower than us, though.
So who are we allowed to draw against?
Well...deduct the teams "lower" than us, and what have you got?
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
No. We're almost certainly going to have to win "tough" games away, against teams lower than us, though.
So who are we allowed to draw against?
Well...deduct the teams "lower" than us, and what have you got?
Teams above us who we need to catch?
-
You don't have to understand any logic, as I'm quoting facts not an opinion.
After another round of games in the Championship, some teams moved 2 points further ahead of us and one team overtook us. Some teams also got closer behind us by 2 points, but we won't worry about that just yet.
So what do you suggest because we're not going to win every game are we?
Thinking about it though, I'm not sure draws away at teams like Leeds are going to get us automatic promotion.
We have Derby away soon, who are higher than Leeds, so I presume another draw there is a good result? Then Middlesbrough away at the end of December who are only a point behind Leeds at this point, so a draw there will be a good result as well?
A point away at Leeds isn't disastrous. Same with Derby or Middlesbrough (as I'm sure some will point out should it happen). Probably won't get us top 2 though.
So we need to win every game otherwise we're not going to finish in the top two?
No. We're almost certainly going to have to win "tough" games away, against teams lower than us, though.
So who are we allowed to draw against?
Well...deduct the teams "lower" than us, and what have you got?
Teams above us who we need to catch?
Indeed. But you're forgetting they have to come to Villa Park, where we must get 3 points against them.
4 points against the teams above us will do nicely.
It's been an OK way of wasting a few hours on a Sunday morning, but I must get on. Before I go though, I'll just remind you of the original point I was making;
After the latest round of games, we have slipped further behind the top 2. That's a fact.
The following is my opinion;
Doing as we are will probably be good enough for a playoff place. We will need to do even better if we are going to get automatic promotion.
-
Yes, it's been tremendous fun. Agree to disagree and all that.
-
Before this week's games we were 4th after we are 5th. Those are the facts. Team feeling elated is justified as they did very well coming back from a goal down however that does not alter facts.
How many points were we behind Sheffield United 3-4 weeks ago? My post was more along the lines of three weeks ago we were about 10 points behind Sheffield United and now the gap is 1 point.
Hold my hands up I didn't actually realise Bristol City could go above us yesterday with a win. Thought they were on the same points as Derby are.
My point remains though at start of November we must've been significantly adrift of 3rd and now we've cut it down to a single point. That was what I was trying to get at regardless of league position.
-
10 points from every 4 games would.
We'd finish with nearly 100 points wouldn't we?
Posted the fixtures on another site but have a look at Cardiff's fixtures in March and April. Think that's going to be the crucial period for automatic promotion. If we can keep to within 5 points of them I'd fancy us to nick ahead around Easter.
-
And it's the point most of us understood SHQ.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form. Unfortunately others are doing better, and until they get worse or we get better they will continue to pull away from us. The reality is cardiff and wolves are winning 4 or 5 games out of 5 currently while we are winning 3. I fully expect both teams above won't be keeping up that form all season but for us to take advantage and claw back the 3 wins needed to go above cardiff we have to hope they either go completely to pot for a month or we start hitting their type of form .That is why leeds was a good result on paper but not so good when compared to the opposition. Obviously we are in a tough line up of games at the moment and hopefully cardiff and wolves still have these to come, but nevertheless we have to take advantage when it does and also make sure they haven't got too much of a points cushion for us to catch them.
Looking at the 6 games in december, i'd be happy with 3 wins as a bottom line, so the 2 homes games plus Brentford away. Anything from leeds, Boro and derby in that context is a bonus imo.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form. Unfortunately others are doing better, and until they get worse or we get better they will continue to pull away from us. The reality is cardiff and wolves are winning 4 or 5 games out of 5 currently while we are winning 3. I fully expect both teams above won't be keeping up that form all season but for us to take advantage and claw back the 3 wins needed to go above cardiff we have to hope they either go completely to pot for a month or we start hitting their type of form .That is why leeds was a good result on paper but not so good when compared to the opposition. Obviously we are in a tough line up of games at the moment and hopefully cardiff and wolves still have these to come, but nevertheless we have to take advantage when it does and also make sure they haven't got too much of a points cushion for us to catch them.
Cardiff and Wolves will both end up with more than 100 points if they carry on their current form. Neither are as good or have the strength in depth that Newcastle or Brighton had last season.
We are nicely placed. If we are no further off the top two by the turn of the year, we have a great chance of top two.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form. Unfortunately others are doing better, and until they get worse or we get better they will continue to pull away from us. The reality is cardiff and wolves are winning 4 or 5 games out of 5 currently while we are winning 3. I fully expect both teams above won't be keeping up that form all season but for us to take advantage and claw back the 3 wins needed to go above cardiff we have to hope they either go completely to pot for a month or we start hitting their type of form .That is why leeds was a good result on paper but not so good when compared to the opposition. Obviously we are in a tough line up of games at the moment and hopefully cardiff and wolves still have these to come, but nevertheless we have to take advantage when it does and also make sure they haven't got too much of a points cushion for us to catch them.
Cardiff and Wolves will both end up with more than 100 points if they carry on their current form. Neither are as good or have the strength in depth that Newcastle or Brighton had last season.
We are nicely placed. If we are no further off the top two by the turn of the year, we have a great chance of top two.
Well looking at the december fixtures, cardiff have 4 homes games and their two aways are against bolton and reading! So i can't see them getting less points than us. Wolves have a much harder december so i guess we'll see just how good they are.
-
Its an interesting question though, are they both over performing vs their squad & manager... or are we?
Wolves I really cant figure out, but Cardiff, I am pretty convinced they are ounching about their weight right now. As for us, I am actually starting to believe we are solid.We seem far less likely to crumble than we have for a few seasons which is good. The forced rotation of several key members may end up actually helping us in the long run. We have learnt quite a few good things about some of our players because if it.
-
Its an interesting question though, are they both over performing vs their squad & manager... or are we?
Wolves I really cant figure out, but Cardiff, I am pretty convinced they are ounching about their weight right now. As for us, I am actually starting to believe we are solid.We seem far less likely to crumble than we have for a few seasons which is good. The forced rotation of several key members may end up actually helping us in the long run. We have learnt quite a few good things about some of our players because if it.
yep certain players have stepped up to the plate but i do worry if there isn't any incomings come January. The biggest weakness is goals and if adomah gets injured or has a dip in form, currently i can't see where they'd be coming from.
-
Its an interesting question though, are they both over performing vs their squad & manager... or are we?
Wolves I really cant figure out, but Cardiff, I am pretty convinced they are ounching about their weight right now. As for us, I am actually starting to believe we are solid.We seem far less likely to crumble than we have for a few seasons which is good. The forced rotation of several key members may end up actually helping us in the long run. We have learnt quite a few good things about some of our players because if it.
yep certain players have stepped up to the plate but i do worry if there isn't any incomings come January. The biggest weakness is goals and if adomah gets injured or has a dip in form, currently i can't see where they'd be coming from.
To be fair our midfield has been chipping in WAY more than they have in previous seasons. But for sure a new forward in January is a must. Bruce has said thats his priority as well so I reckon we will get someone.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
But you said it was very good form. So it's not? Oh and comparing Burnley with all those teams above them is a bit silly really.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
But you said it was very good form. So it's not? Oh and comparing Burnley with all those teams above them is a bit silly really.
It is, just not the form we need unless our competition gets worse or we get better. Simple maths really. If you're getting 10 points every 5 games and the opposition are getting 12 or 15 you are not gonna catch them.
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
But you said it was very good form. So it's not? Oh and comparing Burnley with all those teams above them is a bit silly really.
It is, just not the form we need unless our competition gets worse or we get better. Simple maths really. If you're getting 10 points every 5 games and the opposition are getting 12 or 15 you are not gonna catch them.
But if you're getting 10 points from 12 which we have done in the last 4 games, isn't that good as well?
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
But you said it was very good form. So it's not? Oh and comparing Burnley with all those teams above them is a bit silly really.
It is, just not the form we need unless our competition gets worse or we get better. Simple maths really. If you're getting 10 points every 5 games and the opposition are getting 12 or 15 you are not gonna catch them.
But if you're getting 10 points from 12 which we have done in the last 4 games, isn't that good as well?
yes it is, and i never said it wasn't to be fair
-
Winning at home and picking up draws away at the better teams is very good form.
Isn't that what we have been doing apart from Cardiff and Wolves?
yes it is. Still it's not the standard we need at the moment. Burnley have our sort of form at the moment but it's not going to win them the league or get into Europe
But you said it was very good form. So it's not? Oh and comparing Burnley with all those teams above them is a bit silly really.
It is, just not the form we need unless our competition gets worse or we get better. Simple maths really. If you're getting 10 points every 5 games and the opposition are getting 12 or 15 you are not gonna catch them.
But if you're getting 10 points from 12 which we have done in the last 4 games, isn't that good as well?
yes it is, and i never said it wasn't to be fair
Well you have, you said it 'wasn't the standard' where let's be honest, 10 points out of 12 whoever you are is very good.
-
I actually state it's very good form in my original post but as i said Burnley's form is very good as well, but if the opposition's form is excellent then it remains not good enough currently. I really don't know why you can't see this other than you just want a pedantic argument because you're bored.
-
I actually state it's very good form in my original post but as i said Burnley's form is very good as well, but if the opposition's form is excellent then it remains not good enough currently. I really don't know why you can't see this other than you just want a pedantic argument because you're bored.
But we can only do what we can do. If the teams above us win, then what can we do other than get results ourselves? I'm not being pedantic and suggesting a fellow fan is bored because they're disagreeing with you is quite amusing.
-
my wifes watching x factor so I am bored can I disagree to
-
I actually state it's very good form in my original post but as i said Burnley's form is very good as well, but if the opposition's form is excellent then it remains not good enough currently. I really don't know why you can't see this other than you just want a pedantic argument because you're bored.
But we can only do what we can do. If the teams above us win, then what can we do other than get results ourselves? I'm not being pedantic and suggesting a fellow fan is bored because they're disagreeing with you is quite amusing.
well now you've finally come to your point, i'll answer. In the leeds game, maybe say a more adventurous outlook from Bruce from the beginning would have helped? There was no doubt as soon as we were forced to chase the game after being behind we were easily the better side, so worrying less about the opposition and more about what we can do attacking wise would maybe make up those points and and change draws to wins?
-
10 points from 12 is good form but, go back another match, and it's actually 10 from 15. Still not bad, but doesn't have us making a dent on the deficit above.
That's part of the problem. We're playing catch up on teams who are, by recent form, doing even better than we are. Go back 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 matches and the two above have outperformed us.
Clampy is saying that we are doing 'well', and we are. We just need to do better than the teams above us, and we're not.
Perhaps Cardiff or Wolves will implode, we can carry on doing what we're doing, and no one close behind starts to outperform us. We'll have to live in hope, I suppose.
-
I actually state it's very good form in my original post but as i said Burnley's form is very good as well, but if the opposition's form is excellent then it remains not good enough currently. I really don't know why you can't see this other than you just want a pedantic argument because you're bored.
But we can only do what we can do. If the teams above us win, then what can we do other than get results ourselves? I'm not being pedantic and suggesting a fellow fan is bored because they're disagreeing with you is quite amusing.
well now you've finally come to your point, i'll answer. In the leeds game, maybe say a more adventurous outlook from Bruce from the beginning would have helped? There was no doubt as soon as we were forced to chase the game after being behind we were easily the better side, so worrying less about the opposition and more about what we can do attacking wise would maybe make up those points and and change draws to wins?
9 times out of 10, the home side always start the best. It's then up to the away side the quieten the home crowd down. We got a point which I think the majority of fans would have taken before the game, I know would have.
-
yeah and Bruce. He came for the draw
-
yeah and Bruce. He came for the draw
And there we have it. You make it so obvious.
-
Make what obvious? that is his style -safety first. i think many people would view Mourinho's defensive tactics as sensible against equivalent teams ability-wise away as valid. The fact that they're off the pace by 8 points and relied on a world class performance from their 'keeper to win on saturday doesn't really say they are going to catch Man City.
-
double post
-
Make what obvious? that is his style -safety first. i think many people would view Mourinho's defensive tactics as sensible against equivalent teams ability-wise away as valid. The fact that they're off the pace by 8 points and relied on a world class performance from their 'keeper to win on saturday doesn't really say they are going to catch Man City.
Isn’t that the point of having a world class goalkeeper?
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
You can see the impact of a slow / poor start means you will always be playing catch up with no room for a dip
-
yeah and Bruce. He came for the draw
You keep saying this, you even called the line up 'cowardly' (what a fucking ridiculous expression) and I just disagree with you. The line up was pretty much exactly the line up that has been getting us results over the last two months.
It is true Leeds started much better and pushed us back. They were up for it, their crowd was up for it and the ref wasn't controlling their over aggression. They played pretty well and pushed us back. It was nothing to do with Bruce going for a point. As it happened we restricted them to a handful of chances and came out on top, even with only one fit young striker and several key players missing or coming back from injury.
I think your desperate desire to believe Bruce can only be negative and went to shut up shop and go for a point is clouding your judgement on this game.
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
Not really. We're aiming to average 2 points per game over 46 games, not 25. Nobody gets promoted in January. The main objective is to stay in touch with the top two whilst gradually chipping away at the points deficit.
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
Not really. We're aiming to average 2 points per game over 46 games, not 25. Nobody gets promoted in January. The main objective is to stay in touch with the top two whilst gradually chipping away at the points deficit.
Are we gradually chipping away at the top 2 though?
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
Not really. We're aiming to average 2 points per game over 46 games, not 25. Nobody gets promoted in January. The main objective is to stay in touch with the top two whilst gradually chipping away at the points deficit.
Are we gradually chipping away at the top 2 though?
If by 'chipping away' means falling further behind Wolves, then I suppose so!
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
Not really. We're aiming to average 2 points per game over 46 games, not 25. Nobody gets promoted in January. The main objective is to stay in touch with the top two whilst gradually chipping away at the points deficit.
Are we gradually chipping away at the top 2 though?
If by 'chipping away' means falling further behind Wolves, then I suppose so!
And Cardiff - they've won four in a row.
-
The more we drop points elsewhere, the more pressure it puts on the two games against Sheff Utd, and the home games against Wolves, Cardiff and Bristol City.
It's still a case of collecting eight more points than Cardiff, and two more points than Sheff Utd and Bristol City, over the course of 26 games. It's just how achievable we make it in these five crunch games.
-
The aim has to be 10 from the next four again to keep our momentum going. That would be 20 points from 24 available and put everybody under some pressure.
No reason we cannot win the lot mind. You'd expect us to beat Millwall and Sheffield United, while Derby flatter to decieve. Brentford will be trickiest I feel.
-
Rotten Boxing Day at Brentford looks plausible. Would be good to have Terry back by then.
-
Bristol City last minute winner against Sheffield Utd didn't really help us. We could do with everyone else drawing ATM.
-
Bristol City last minute winner against Sheffield Utd didn't really help us. We could do with everyone else drawing ATM.
Exactly. But this is the reality. Cardiff have won 4 on the bounce, Bristol 3. So the odd draw for us here and there means we lose ground on those above.
Our shit start left us with no wriggle room but even if we'd had a good start, to get promoted automatically you have to win the vast majority of your games.
-
I really think Bristol will fall away at some point. Just like Sheffield United have of late
Less sure about Cardiff
-
I think so too. Their centre half is their top scorer...
-
They should have been murdered last night and keep on scoring late winners
As we saw under MoN that just can’t last all season
-
Win today and we're a point behind. Let's keep looking after our own affairs. Our squad will pay dividends in the end.
-
They should have been murdered last night and keep on scoring late winners
As we saw under MoN that just can’t last all season
Man United dominated for a generation by scoring late winners when they weren't playing well. I'm not sure that's an indicator of imminent failure.
-
Win today and we're a point behind. Let's keep looking after our own affairs. Our squad will pay dividends in the end.
Exactly. My focus is on Cardiff, we just need to keep the gap tight and wait for them to drop points.
-
They should have been murdered last night and keep on scoring late winners
As we saw under MoN that just can’t last all season
Man United dominated for a generation by scoring late winners when they weren't playing well. I'm not sure that's an indicator of imminent failure.
It is hardly a like for like comparison though.
Whatever minute a goal is scored in is irrelevant really but if you win a game when the opposition hit the woodwork 3 times and have a man sent off I don’t think you can claim any Ferguson like genius behind it.
-
By the same token I don't think we can write Sheff Utd. off despite their recent wobble when they outplayed their closest rival for most of the game (it was a bit like the Arse-Ure game last weekend). Having said that, the best time to play a team is usually when results are going against them so we really have to be beating them on the eve of Christmas Eve.
-
I think so too. Their centre half is their top scorer...
Another reason why we should have kept Nathan :o
-
They should have been murdered last night and keep on scoring late winners
As we saw under MoN that just can’t last all season
Man United dominated for a generation by scoring late winners when they weren't playing well. I'm not sure that's an indicator of imminent failure.
It is hardly a like for like comparison though.
Whatever minute a goal is scored in is irrelevant really but if you win a game when the opposition hit the woodwork 3 times and have a man sent off I don’t think you can claim any Ferguson like genius behind it.
Of course it's not like for like but when we win a game after playing badly it's seen as a positive. When Bristol do it it's apparently a sign their bubble's about to burst.
-
They should have been murdered last night and keep on scoring late winners
As we saw under MoN that just can’t last all season
Man United dominated for a generation by scoring late winners when they weren't playing well. I'm not sure that's an indicator of imminent failure.
It is hardly a like for like comparison though.
Whatever minute a goal is scored in is irrelevant really but if you win a game when the opposition hit the woodwork 3 times and have a man sent off I don’t think you can claim any Ferguson like genius behind it.
Of course it's not like for like but when we win a game after playing badly it's seen as a positive. When Bristol do it it's apparently a sign their bubble's about to burst.
Or if we have a win against the run of play people will say that sort victory is unsustainable.
It is why trying to extrapolate one result into anything more significant is mostly pointless. Reports suggest Bristol rode their luck but they got the points so will not care and focus instead on things like resilience and attitude. Incidentally, having seen the winning goal earlier it was a great finish for a centre back (not square head).
-
I'm pretty sure Bristol City were doing quite well early last season and fell on their arses around halfway to end up near the bottom of the league, hopefully they can do the same again.
-
Fridays draw now means to achieve 2pts average we need to win the next 5
to make it 25 played with 50 points
Not really. We're aiming to average 2 points per game over 46 games, not 25. Nobody gets promoted in January. The main objective is to stay in touch with the top two whilst gradually chipping away at the points deficit.
We dont need to concentrate on the top 2. Just second place we need to worry about. If Wolves win all their remaining games bar the one against us, they will probably be doing us a favour.
-
So how many more slip ups can we afford and still get Top 2.?
Or do we now need snookers?
-
So how many more slip ups can we afford and still get Top 2.?
Or do we now need snookers?
It ain't happening, even if it's still possible. Too mnay performances like today and Sheffield Wednesday.
-
So how many more slip ups can we afford and still get Top 2.?
Or do we now need snookers?
Not sure. But 2 points from 6 at the start of a busy month is not ideal.
I'm sure there is a valid reason why a point at Home to lowly Millwall is good though, I just can't think of one at the moment. Perhaps I'll find out on the post match thread later.
-
I make that 2 away wins we need in December now to keep up with 1st and 2nd on their current form. If cardiff win on Monday we're gonna be 9 points off them - already looking beyond us
-
I make that 2 away wins we need in December now to keep up with 1st and 2nd on their current form. If cardiff win on Monday we're gonna be 9 points off them - already looking beyond us
Cardiff have won 4 in a row and before yesterday Wolves had won 6 in a row. Keeping pace with them involves winning every match.
-
Well we haven't lost any ground on Barca-bay-we at least.
It's the two six pointers coming up we must win.
-
Yes but we have to do much much better than 3 out of 4 teams for the rest of the season and that is not going to happen.
-
Well we are a single result away from being 3rd, it's more about taking points out of the top 2. 7 and 9 win half a season isn't impossible when we have to play them both with over half a season left.
-
Yesterday was a poor performance and a poor result but there's so much football left to be played.
-
So how many more slip ups can we afford and still get Top 2.?
Or do we now need snookers?
Not sure. But 2 points from 6 at the start of a busy month is not ideal.
I'm sure there is a valid reason why a point at Home to lowly Millwall is good though, I just can't think of one at the moment. Perhaps I'll find out on the post match thread later.
Cardiff actually only drew 0-0 with them at home.
Make no mistake though yesterday was a terrible time to draw points in a winnable home fixture. Would've put pressure on Cardiff on Monday night to keep winning.
We're going to have to win two out of Derby/Sheffield/Boro/Brentford to keep in touch now so pressure right on.
-
Yesterday we played possibly our weakest opposition this month and messed up so it going to be a grim December.☹️
-
Or just the rocket we need to re-focus ahead of an equally functional and very workman like Derby side.
-
I make that 2 away wins we need in December now to keep up with 1st and 2nd on their current form. If cardiff win on Monday we're gonna be 9 points off them - already looking beyond us
Cardiff have won 4 in a row and before yesterday Wolves had won 6 in a row. Keeping pace with them involves winning every match.
Well yes that's true. I was basing it on the hope that cardiff and Wolves can't keep winning every game, and that on paper at least, winning at home and picking up draws and the occasional win away would keep us within striking distance of them. Unfortunately with the 2 points dropped at 1 of our 2 only home matches this month, we now have to seriously up our game away at Derby, Brentford and 'Boro. 8 points from our remaining 4 games this month is probably the minimum we need, and even that doesn't look good enough unless cardiff and wolves go to pot.
-
Late fightback for Cardiff tonight at Reading from two goals down so it's as you were between us, them and Wolves after the weekend's games. We've gained a point on t'Blades but lost two to Brizzle. Derby gained on us, ahead of us now on goal difference leading into next Sat's game and the chasing pack (Leeds, Boro) got a bit closer too.
-
Derby are a point ahead of us. We're above Sheffield United on goal difference.
-
Ahaa eamonn has a formula for converting a point back to goal difference😉
-
So how many more slip ups can we afford and still get Top 2.?
Or do we now need snookers?
We need snookers and the top two delivered this week and will do so again over the remaining 25 games rest is up to us.
-
With 75 points left to play for I'd be keeping my sheets dry.
-
With 75 points left to play for I'd be keeping my sheets dry.
I'm fairly sure that if we look back approximately 12 months you were almost certainly saying the same thing at that point.
Then we went 9 matches without a win from the end of December to the end of Feb.
-
With 75 points left to play for I'd be keeping my sheets dry.
I'm fairly sure that if we look back approximately 12 months you were almost certainly saying the same thing at that point.
Then we went 9 matches without a win from the end of December to the end of Feb.
Ok...?
-
With 75 points left to play for I'd be keeping my sheets dry.
I'm fairly sure that if we look back approximately 12 months you were almost certainly saying the same thing at that point.
Then we went 9 matches without a win from the end of December to the end of Feb.
Ok...?
So you've got form for blind, unfounded optimism.
-
Saying lets wait and see is blind optimism?
-
Adomah has been keeping us in the hunt really. Our strikers in Davis, Kodjia, Agbonlahor and Hogan have got four goals between them. Kodjia is going to be out for at least 3-4 months if not the whole season, and none of the others can be relied to score regularly, if at all. If Bruce doesn't magic up a striker from somewhere in January, I don't think we'll even hang on to a play off place.
-
Having had 3 scoreless draws at home now doesn't fill you with confidence
-
3 months apart.
-
It can only be a bad weekend when we have a very winnable home game, the top 2 for the first time in ages fail to win and we don't cut the deficit.
Given three of the next four games are away and we've got Derby, Sheffield and Boro in next three weeks I wouldn't expect us to reduce the distance to Cardiff, think it will be increased to 9 points so we'll have a lot of work to do in the second half of the season.
-
I think we will beat Derby, Boro and Sheffield United, its Brentford that worries me most.
Excellent record at Boro over the years with a multitude of managers and teams. The happiest of hunting grounds for us. Derby will be tough as Rowett wont want to lose so it could well be a dour game, but I fancy a rocket up our collective arses following Saturday. Sheffield United are in poor form, but Brentford have out played us by and large the last two games.
-
I think we'll beat Sheffield United.
Very unsure on the three away games. Can see SB just playing for draws at Boro and especially Derby. Nothing in his record suggests we'll go to those places and wipe the floor with them anyway.
Brentford is the dodgy one. We're due a decent performance against them but their style of play always causes us major problems.
-
I think Bruce will cement our position of being in the hunt for a play off place.
-
I think we'll beat Sheffield United.
Very unsure on the three away games. Can see SB just playing for draws at Boro and especially Derby. Nothing in his record suggests we'll go to those places and wipe the floor with them anyway.
Brentford is the dodgy one. We're due a decent performance against them but their style of play always causes us major problems.
I think it would only be the odd goal in it against Derby. I think they have a lot of similar qualities to us, but without Lawrence I think they're pretty pedestrian.
-
I think we'll beat Sheffield United.
Very unsure on the three away games. Can see SB just playing for draws at Boro and especially Derby. Nothing in his record suggests we'll go to those places and wipe the floor with them anyway.
Brentford is the dodgy one. We're due a decent performance against them but their style of play always causes us major problems.
You mean we are both pedestrian?
I think it would only be the odd goal in it against Derby. I think they have a lot of similar qualities to us, but without Lawrence I think they're pretty pedestrian.
-
Good quote fail. That will teach you.
-
Good quote fail. That will teach you.
Bugger
-
With 75 points left to play for I'd be keeping my sheets dry.
I'm fairly sure that if we look back approximately 12 months you were almost certainly saying the same thing at that point.
Then we went 9 matches without a win from the end of December to the end of Feb.
Ok...?
So you've got form for blind, unfounded optimism.
Actually I will be more comfortable if Ads said we will be champion's by clear 10 points than I know, as the team always delivers well below his expectation, we will scrape through to second on goal difference.
-
well looking at the games coming up in our part of the table i have the following results based on form
Sheff w vs wolves . sheffield wednesday have picked up 4 points out of 15 in their last 5 games. Away win.
bristol c vs Forest. Forest i see them and Ipswich as the "average" Championship team. Home win
ipswich vs reading. as i said, average championship team at home. Home win
Leeds vs Norwich. Leeds form has picked up so home win
millwall vs boro. Don't think Boro will win. could be a draw but i'm going for a home win
Preston vs Sheffield u . Recent form has home win all over it
cardiff vs Hull. on form, a no brainer. Home win
Derby C vs Villa. very similar stats all round. derby have the better recent form. With not much hope we can actually put in one of our rare quality performances i'm going for a draw.
Based on the above, this time next week i make the table
Wolves 51
Cardiff 47
Bristol c 43
Derby 39
Villa 38
Sheffield U 37
Leeds 36
Ipswich 35
Preston 35
Not looking good to me. We really need a win to keep up with the leaders if those scores happen. We caught a break last weekend with the results and they could go our way again of course, but sooner to later we are going to have to show our class if we have any, and pick up a good win away if we have any chance of going up automatically.
-
I'm surprised Sheffield Wednesday haven't sacked their manager yet.
-
well looking at the games coming up in our part of the table i have the following results based on form
Sheff w vs wolves . sheffield wednesday have picked up 4 points out of 15 in their last 5 games. Away win.
bristol c vs Forest. Forest i see them and Ipswich as the "average" Championship team. Home win
ipswich vs reading. as i said, average championship team at home. Home win
Leeds vs Norwich. Leeds form has picked up so home win
millwall vs boro. Don't think Boro will win. could be a draw but i'm going for a home win
Preston vs Sheffield u . Recent form has home win all over it
cardiff vs Hull. on form, a no brainer. Home win
Derby C vs Villa. very similar stats all round. derby have the better recent form. With not much hope we can actually put in one of our rare quality performances i'm going for a draw.
Based on the above, this time next week i make the table
Wolves 51
Cardiff 47
Bristol c 43
Derby 39
Villa 38
Sheffield U 37
Leeds 36
Ipswich 35
Preston 35
Not looking good to me. We really need a win to keep up with the leaders if those scores happen. We caught a break last weekend with the results and they could go our way again of course, but sooner to later we are going to have to show our class if we have any, and pick up a good win away if we have any chance of going up automatically.
Quiet day at the Office?
Can you complete December please?
-
I think we'll beat Sheffield United.
Very unsure on the three away games. Can see SB just playing for draws at Boro and especially Derby. Nothing in his record suggests we'll go to those places and wipe the floor with them anyway.
Brentford is the dodgy one. We're due a decent performance against them but their style of play always causes us major problems.
I think it would only be the odd goal in it against Derby. I think they have a lot of similar qualities to us, but without Lawrence I think they're pretty pedestrian.
Is Lawrence suspended then? He played the other day. Vydra is in great form currently and Weimann also scored at Barnsley so it will be a tough day for our back 4 I think and Derby are solid in the other areas.
-
Weimann is being played out of position. I will be honest, Nugent and Andi put as much fear into me as a wet wheatbix.
Martin is shite this season too.
-
Weimann is being played out of position. I will be honest, Nugent and Andi put as much fear into me as a wet wheatbix.
Martin is shite this season too.
Weimann is being played as a wide forward, same as he did for us. Thought he'd be better at this level than he was for us in the prem but still ex player and all that (can't remember him playing v us last year).
Derby play a targetman and then those three pacey options behind so would be really surprised if we got a clean sheet on Saturday.
-
That's my point, we played him out of position and so are they. He's a hustle and bustle centre forward. I don't think he played against us. Went on loan to the Wolves in January if I recall.
-
well looking at the games coming up in our part of the table i have the following results based on form
Sheff w vs wolves . sheffield wednesday have picked up 4 points out of 15 in their last 5 games. Away win.
bristol c vs Forest. Forest i see them and Ipswich as the "average" Championship team. Home win
ipswich vs reading. as i said, average championship team at home. Home win
Leeds vs Norwich. Leeds form has picked up so home win
millwall vs boro. Don't think Boro will win. could be a draw but i'm going for a home win
Preston vs Sheffield u . Recent form has home win all over it
cardiff vs Hull. on form, a no brainer. Home win
Derby C vs Villa. very similar stats all round. derby have the better recent form. With not much hope we can actually put in one of our rare quality performances i'm going for a draw.
Based on the above, this time next week i make the table
Wolves 51
Cardiff 47
Bristol c 43
Derby 39
Villa 38
Sheffield U 37
Leeds 36
Ipswich 35
Preston 35
Not looking good to me. We really need a win to keep up with the leaders if those scores happen. We caught a break last weekend with the results and they could go our way again of course, but sooner to later we are going to have to show our class if we have any, and pick up a good win away if we have any chance of going up automatically.
Quiet day at the Office?
Can you complete December please?
Heh. well it is appropriately dull in the spirit of the promotion maths thread 8). Besides i'm looking forward to seeing how bloody clueless i am at predicting..
-
well looking at the games coming up in our part of the table i have the following results based on form
Sheff w vs wolves . sheffield wednesday have picked up 4 points out of 15 in their last 5 games. Away win.
bristol c vs Forest. Forest i see them and Ipswich as the "average" Championship team. Home win
ipswich vs reading. as i said, average championship team at home. Home win
Leeds vs Norwich. Leeds form has picked up so home win
millwall vs boro. Don't think Boro will win. could be a draw but i'm going for a home win
Preston vs Sheffield u . Recent form has home win all over it
cardiff vs Hull. on form, a no brainer. Home win
Derby C vs Villa. very similar stats all round. derby have the better recent form. With not much hope we can actually put in one of our rare quality performances i'm going for a draw.
Based on the above, this time next week i make the table
Wolves 51
Cardiff 47
Bristol c 43
Derby 39
Villa 38
Sheffield U 37
Leeds 36
Ipswich 35
Preston 35
Not looking good to me. We really need a win to keep up with the leaders if those scores happen. We caught a break last weekend with the results and they could go our way again of course, but sooner to later we are going to have to show our class if we have any, and pick up a good win away if we have any chance of going up automatically.
Quiet day at the Office?
Can you complete December please?
Heh. well it is appropriately dull in the spirit of the promotion maths thread 8). Besides i'm looking forward to seeing how bloody clueless i am at predicting..
DULL ?! How very dare you sir. The permutations for Villa's results in the next 4-5 matches are an endlessly entertaining exercise in randomness.
-
today put paid to automatic promotion.
Looking at the fixtures and form we are in, it’s a fight for play offs now.
-
I don't think there's much between Cardiff in 2nd and Preston in 9th still lots of twists and turns to come and I'd say we have a good chance of making the play offs and a fair chance of automatic behind Wolves.
Terry back will make a difference to the mentality on the pitch. My biggest concern is still the lack of goal power in the squad.
-
well looking at the games coming up in our part of the table i have the following results based on form
Sheff w vs wolves . sheffield wednesday have picked up 4 points out of 15 in their last 5 games. Away win.
bristol c vs Forest. Forest i see them and Ipswich as the "average" Championship team. Home win
ipswich vs reading. as i said, average championship team at home. Home win
Leeds vs Norwich. Leeds form has picked up so home win
millwall vs boro. Don't think Boro will win. could be a draw but i'm going for a home win
Preston vs Sheffield u . Recent form has home win all over it
cardiff vs Hull. on form, a no brainer. Home win
Derby C vs Villa. very similar stats all round. derby have the better recent form. With not much hope we can actually put in one of our rare quality performances i'm going for a draw.
Based on the above, this time next week i make the table
Wolves 51
Cardiff 47
Bristol c 43
Derby 39
Villa 38
Sheffield U 37
Leeds 36
Ipswich 35
Preston 35
Not looking good to me. We really need a win to keep up with the leaders if those scores happen. We caught a break last weekend with the results and they could go our way again of course, but sooner to later we are going to have to show our class if we have any, and pick up a good win away if we have any chance of going up automatically.
Some good tips there. Send me your thoughts for next weeks games!
-
Don't think i'll bother as i fear i'm jinxing us >:(
-
We won't catch Wolves now, 4+ games to bridge 13 points is a huge amount to make up in half a season, especially when we're not prolific goal scorers.
-
We won't catch Wolves now, 4+ games to bridge 13 points is a huge amount to make up in half a season, especially when we're not prolific goal scorers.
If Wolves and Cardiff carry on they are then we need 12-13 wins on the bounce to catch them, I just don't see a Steve Bruce team ever scoring the goals to put a run like that together so I suspect we're now playing for a play off spot.
-
We won't catch Wolves now, 4+ games to bridge 13 points is a huge amount to make up in half a season, especially when we're not prolific goal scorers.
Have to agree unless we go on some record type run. Sheff u home next, who's form makes ours look good. If we don't win that one........
-
Now that we're in the playoff places surely remaining there is the minimum requirement although we'll need to start winning again pretry soon. Automatic is looking a big ask. One of Wolves and Cardiff need to blow up.
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
-
For me this season was all about auto promotion. Unfortunately we've been found to be sadly lacking. To be in the mix (based on Brighton's stats from last season) we needed at least 8 points from the first 6 games, but failed by 2 and at least 21 points from 11 games, again failing by 2. We then needed at least 48 points from 22 games, but have failed by an alarming 11 points! Fair play to Cardiff who have got to within one point of the target and Wolves who have exceeded it by 3. The next target for 34 games is at least 71 points. We need 34 points from the next 36, just to be in the mix!!!! Even if Cardiff start falling away, we are not even close enough (like Bristol or Derby) to take advantage.
Some people will be happy with being in a play-off position. If we were to get promoted through them, then of course I would be happy, but they are a lottery and I'm sh-t at playing the lottery. Besides we still have to prove we're good enough to stay in the play-off positions. Over to you Bruce, as you were the one who intimated Villa fans, who could see what was happening, were being hysterical and obviously you know best!
-
I think our best bet is to play a striker in the striker’s position. It could just work.
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I think we wont catch Wolves but I think Cardiff may implode at some point particularly if they pick up a couple of injuries. Strange things happen in sport and we cant give up on getting second spot at least! Having said that our next 4 games are very important to pick up some momentum that we've lost!
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I think we wont catch Wolves but I think Cardiff may implode at some point particularly if they pick up a couple of injuries. Strange things happen in sport and we cant give up on getting second spot at least! Having said that our next 4 games are very important to pick up some momentum that we've lost!
They've already had their injuries - their best players are starting to come back now.
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I think we wont catch Wolves but I think Cardiff may implode at some point particularly if they pick up a couple of injuries. Strange things happen in sport and we cant give up on getting second spot at least! Having said that our next 4 games are very important to pick up some momentum that we've lost!
Why do you think they’re going to implode? Warnock has got an equally if not better record of getting teams up as Bruce has
-
To my mind the only team that's imploded through injuries so far is sheff united. All the rest seem quite capable of coping with an average amount of injuries. We have been unlucky in a way because your best forward and best defender being injured would disrupt any club, though i'm not sure how much disruption is due to Bruce being unable to change his system to accommodate the "non-bruce" type players
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I think we wont catch Wolves but I think Cardiff may implode at some point particularly if they pick up a couple of injuries. Strange things happen in sport and we cant give up on getting second spot at least! Having said that our next 4 games are very important to pick up some momentum that we've lost!
Why do you think they’re going to implode? Warnock has got an equally if not better record of getting teams up as Bruce has
No reason - just a hope! Perhaps implode was the wrong phrase - perhaps better to say I hope they hit a bad run!
-
For me this season was all about auto promotion. Unfortunately we've been found to be sadly lacking. To be in the mix (based on Brighton's stats from last season) we needed at least 8 points from the first 6 games, but failed by 2 and at least 21 points from 11 games, again failing by 2. We then needed at least 48 points from 22 games, but have failed by an alarming 11 points! Fair play to Cardiff who have got to within one point of the target and Wolves who have exceeded it by 3. The next target for 34 games is at least 71 points. We need 34 points from the next 36, just to be in the mix!!!!
This is the stark reality of where we are now, winning 10 out of 12 is not going to happen based on form and the way we play.
-
Wolves and Cardiff have too much momentum now to fuck this up. We need to ensure we have enough about us to secure a playoff spot and are on a hot streak leading into it. I’m looking for a silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I think we wont catch Wolves but I think Cardiff may implode at some point particularly if they pick up a couple of injuries. Strange things happen in sport and we cant give up on getting second spot at least! Having said that our next 4 games are very important to pick up some momentum that we've lost!
Why do you think they’re going to implode? Warnock has got an equally if not better record of getting teams up as Bruce has
Agreed. Colin Wanker for all his faults has a very impressive record operating outside of the PL.
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches. Best hope is now to maintain play off position.
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches.
Bloody hell. Is that what we need? I appreciate we're currently 10 points behind Cardiff, 7 if we can beat them at Villa Park and of course we're now relying on them dropping points but is it really that bad?
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches.
Bloody hell. Is that what we need? I appreciate we're currently 10 points behind Cardiff, 7 if we can beat them at Villa Park and of course we're now relying on them dropping points but is it really that bad?
Not quite. We need 2.3 points per game on average for the rest of the season to finish with a season average of 2 points per game. So 2 wins and a draw from every three games.
Absolutely nothing I've seen since Bruce took over tells me he's capable of that so at best we're looking at the playoffs.
I know it would be ridiculous to an outsider to sack him now but we've literally got nothing to lose. He's shown he can't beat the other top teams in this division so we may as well boot him and give someone the chance to get us playing in a manner that could get us through the playoffs.
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches.
Bloody hell. Is that what we need? I appreciate we're currently 10 points behind Cardiff, 7 if we can beat them at Villa Park and of course we're now relying on them dropping points but is it really that bad?
Not quite. We need 2.3 points per game on average for the rest of the season to finish with a season average of 2 points per game. So 2 wins and a draw from every three games.
Absolutely nothing I've seen since Bruce took over tells me he's capable of that so at best we're looking at the playoffs.
I know it would be ridiculous to an outsider to sack him now but we've literally got nothing to lose. He's shown he can't beat the other top teams in this division so we may as well boot him and give someone the chance to get us playing in a manner that could get us through the playoffs.
Gets my vote.
-
Adam is more accurate based on previous seasons stats however I was compensating for Wolves and Cardiff being able to get to about 97 points much easier than us. But even if it is 92 Bruce will not deliver 55 points from 24 games. At his best he has only managed 1.8 :-\
-
Can we not do it by average amount of points second place has got in the past decades?
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches.
Bloody hell. Is that what we need? I appreciate we're currently 10 points behind Cardiff, 7 if we can beat them at Villa Park and of course we're now relying on them dropping points but is it really that bad?
Not quite. We need 2.3 points per game on average for the rest of the season to finish with a season average of 2 points per game. So 2 wins and a draw from every three games.
Absolutely nothing I've seen since Bruce took over tells me he's capable of that so at best we're looking at the playoffs.
I know it would be ridiculous to an outsider to sack him now but we've literally got nothing to lose. He's shown he can't beat the other top teams in this division so we may as well boot him and give someone the chance to get us playing in a manner that could get us through the playoffs.
Gets my vote.
And mine - hes been here long enough to demonstrate he isn't up to it.
-
Can we not do it by average amount of points second place has got in the past decades?
That's what I was working on. Automatic promotion from this league almost always requires 2 points per game.
-
I’m at a point now of just not wanting to support Bruce in the market on more of his type of player. I’m pretty convinced that even with a new manager we will have enough to make the playoffs. I’d rather give another manager a shot at doing this long term.
-
I know it would be ridiculous to an outsider to sack him now but we've literally got nothing to lose. He's shown he can't beat the other top teams in this division so we may as well boot him and give someone the chance to get us playing in a manner that could get us through the playoffs.
I'd prefer to wait until we have a larger pool to choose from than risk it now until there was a stand out candidate. It's why I thought he should have gone in May last year.
As for not beating those teams around us, it seems to be the norm with Bruce's team. Looking at his last spell at Hull he managed 2 wins, 3 draws and 5 defeats from 10 games against the other teams in the Top 6. Still, he managed to get them into the play offs where they beat Derby away 3-0 before losing 2-0 at home, then 1-0 at Wembley against Sheff Weds. From what I've read, the Hull fans weren't too disappointed when he left. Maybe that had higher expectations than merely just getting promoted. Another stat that is hard to avoid is from 46 games, only 5 times did his team score more than twice all season.
He is what he is, a partly stale, white, thick sliced, cheese sandwich with not butter, salad or any other frills, just a sprinkling of luck. He gets the job done just don't expect to be impressed. Nice chap though.
-
And if you take those metrics into the PL where the overall standard is much better you begin to quickly realize why he doesn’t have the ability to compete and often gets relegated. He freezes vs better teams and is almost subservient. It’s a belief and confidence thing. Others like Warnock or Pardew are a little like that too but their overall arrogance/self belief means not to the same extent.
-
The numbers are absolutely against us now for automatic as our manager is not capable of delivering about 2.5 points per game from remaining 24 matches.
Bloody hell. Is that what we need? I appreciate we're currently 10 points behind Cardiff, 7 if we can beat them at Villa Park and of course we're now relying on them dropping points but is it really that bad?
Not quite. We need 2.3 points per game on average for the rest of the season to finish with a season average of 2 points per game. So 2 wins and a draw from every three games.
Absolutely nothing I've seen since Bruce took over tells me he's capable of that so at best we're looking at the playoffs.
I know it would be ridiculous to an outsider to sack him now but we've literally got nothing to lose. He's shown he can't beat the other top teams in this division so we may as well boot him and give someone the chance to get us playing in a manner that could get us through the playoffs.
Gets my vote.
And mine.
-
I suppose the fair time to bin him is if we're out of the running for promotion altogether. Unless his contract stipulates automatic promotion, we'll be in the mix for the playoffs for a good number of weeks yet. Change it before that time and you'll never know how the dynamic of the season will be affected.
-
Can we not do it by average amount of points second place has got in the past decades?
That's what I was working on. Automatic promotion from this league almost always requires 2 points per game.
Fair enough, cheers. Play-offs or more upheaval and another year here it is then.
-
I’m at a point now of just not wanting to support Bruce in the market on more of his type of player. I’m pretty convinced that even with a new manager we will have enough to make the playoffs. I’d rather give another manager a shot at doing this long term.
Any ideas as to who would be capable and come to us at this time of the season?
We can absolutely discount the likes of Dyche, Wagner etc. I don't think any Premier League or Championship manager worth looking at would jump ship right now. Personally I don't think Koeman would come.
This isn't a defending Bruce post, just wondered who people think we could get right now who would do a better job.
-
Can we not do it by average amount of points second place has got in the past decades?
That's what I was working on. Automatic promotion from this league almost always requires 2 points per game.
Fair enough, cheers. Play-offs or more upheaval and another year here it is then.
Statto here, there has never been a season since the current 24 team league started that 2 points a match, ie 92 points wouldnt have got you automatic promotion. Its as close to a guarantee as you will get statistically. So that has to remain the target until its mathematically impossible.
That now means 55 points from 24 games, 2.3 points a game.
Put alternatively it means 17 wins, 4 draws and 3 defeats, which I would see as impossible now.
The same measure, to guarantee a playoff place, is 80 points, no-one has achieved that and not made it to the knockout bit.
That means 43 points from 24 games, 1.75 points a game.
Alternatively 12 wins, 7 draws and 4 defeats, not too different to our current record.
-
How about something in between, 86, would that do?
-
Yes 86 is possible for automatic however that requires Cardiff and possibly Bristol city to drop 10 more points than us and also and average slightly below 1.75 points per game. That seems possible but unlikely.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
You keep saying that but it isn't true. Flint is joint second on 6 goals. Top scorer is striker/attacking midfielder Bobby Reid who has scored 11.
-
I should add, they are in the top 3 or 4 teams in the league for goals scored this season as well.
-
Fair enough. My opinion remains unaltered.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
If we don't find a way to score goals we will fall away badly too. Since winning 4-0 at Burton we have only scored 13 goals in the last 12 games, only one from a recognized striker and that was Kodjia from the penalty spot vs Bolton. Adomah has been on fire, something he won't maintain, with the balance of the goals coming from Terry, Chester, Onomah, Snodgrass, Lansbury and Samba.
If we don't find a solution in January we'll slide quickly. In fact we had a decent little cushion below us a couple of weeks ago and sat safely in the play offs. That cushion has gone. One or two more results like the ones we have had recently and the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Preston (who have won 4 of their last 5) will be above us.
-
Considering our three senior strikers have been injured for a large chunk of that time, is it any wonder we have lacked goals up front?
-
Considering our three senior strikers have been injured for a large chunk of that time, is it any wonder we have lacked goals up front?
I'm not dismissing that, but let's be honest it's not like Gabby, Hogan, Davis, McCormack were tearing it up for us at any point in our history. In fact between them they probably have less than 10 goals collectively in the past 18 months. Kodjia obviously is a massive blow, but he's been gone since the end of last season.
Bruce should have done more give the resources at his disposal. He should have found a way to have at least played to Hogan's strengths as opposed to pumping it long to him. Having bought him he's failed massively there.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
However we can’t keep relying on Santa we need to make our own gifts.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
However we can’t keep relying on Santa we need to make our own gifts.
Doesn't that make us elves?
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
They are owned by a billionaire who may want to bring in a player or two next month.
-
We have started clutching at other teams imploding now as we have lost touch with the top 2, what ever, we still have to put a run of results together including beating the teams at the top of the table.
I would love to know what the magic Steve Bruce formula is that is going to achieve this.
-
We have started clutching at other teams imploding now as we have lost touch with the top 2, what ever, we still have to put a run of results together including beating the teams at the top of the table.
I would love to know what the magic Steve Bruce formula is that is going to achieve this.
2 parts stubbornness
3 parts dourness
1 part good luck
and just a pinch of good football (optional)
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
If we don't find a way to score goals we will fall away badly too. Since winning 4-0 at Burton we have only scored 13 goals in the last 12 games, only one from a recognized striker and that was Kodjia from the penalty spot vs Bolton. Adomah has been on fire, something he won't maintain, with the balance of the goals coming from Terry, Chester, Onomah, Snodgrass, Lansbury and Samba.
If we don't find a solution in January we'll slide quickly. In fact we had a decent little cushion below us a couple of weeks ago and sat safely in the play offs. That cushion has gone. One or two more results like the ones we have had recently and the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Preston (who have won 4 of their last 5) will be above us.
It isn't just what we aren't getting from the strikers though. We have scored 29 in half a season. You don't get in the play offs only scoring 58 goals unless you have a preposterously mean defence. They are doing alright but the lack of goals will do for us if we don't sort it in January. Frankly, I am struggling to hold on to any form of hope of automatic promotion. The improvement required from us, dovetailed with the implosion required above, seems tremendously unlikely to me.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
If we don't find a way to score goals we will fall away badly too. Since winning 4-0 at Burton we have only scored 13 goals in the last 12 games, only one from a recognized striker and that was Kodjia from the penalty spot vs Bolton. Adomah has been on fire, something he won't maintain, with the balance of the goals coming from Terry, Chester, Onomah, Snodgrass, Lansbury and Samba.
If we don't find a solution in January we'll slide quickly. In fact we had a decent little cushion below us a couple of weeks ago and sat safely in the play offs. That cushion has gone. One or two more results like the ones we have had recently and the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Preston (who have won 4 of their last 5) will be above us.
It isn't just what we aren't getting from the strikers though. We have scored 29 in half a season. You don't get in the play offs only scoring 58 goals unless you have a preposterously mean defence. They are doing alright but the lack of goals will do for us if we don't sort it in January. Frankly, I am struggling to hold on to any form of hope of automatic promotion. The improvement required from us, dovetailed with the implosion required above, seems tremendously unlikely to me.
There's no doubt about it. It looks massively bleak and maybe why he's rolling the dice in bringing in Agnew. It's not going to be enough. The man is naturally cautious and he won't play an open expansive style because he has no idea what that even is. He brought in a proven goalscorer in Hogan and instead of watching the DVD on how Brentford played to his strengths he lumps the ball long and has midfield players sitting far too deep. I'm no fucking expert and only play Football Manager when I get a few minutes and even I can see that. We've completely wasted 20 odd million on two forwards who were brilliant at their old clubs and have done the square root of fuck all for us. I get with McCormack much is on him, but getting the best out of players is what an experienced manager like Bruce is meant to do and is paid very well to do.
-
I think Bristol will fall away badly again second half of the season. Their squad is no bigger than last and their top scorer is a centre half.
If we don't find a way to score goals we will fall away badly too. Since winning 4-0 at Burton we have only scored 13 goals in the last 12 games, only one from a recognized striker and that was Kodjia from the penalty spot vs Bolton. Adomah has been on fire, something he won't maintain, with the balance of the goals coming from Terry, Chester, Onomah, Snodgrass, Lansbury and Samba.
If we don't find a solution in January we'll slide quickly. In fact we had a decent little cushion below us a couple of weeks ago and sat safely in the play offs. That cushion has gone. One or two more results like the ones we have had recently and the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Preston (who have won 4 of their last 5) will be above us.
It isn't just what we aren't getting from the strikers though. We have scored 29 in half a season. You don't get in the play offs only scoring 58 goals unless you have a preposterously mean defence. They are doing alright but the lack of goals will do for us if we don't sort it in January. Frankly, I am struggling to hold on to any form of hope of automatic promotion. The improvement required from us, dovetailed with the implosion required above, seems tremendously unlikely to me.
There's no doubt about it. It looks massively bleak and maybe why he's rolling the dice in bringing in Agnew. It's not going to be enough. The man is naturally cautious and he won't play an open expansive style because he has no idea what that even is. He brought in a proven goalscorer in Hogan and instead of watching the DVD on how Brentford played to his strengths he lumps the ball long and has midfield players sitting far too deep. I'm no fucking expert and only play Football Manager when I get a few minutes and even I can see that. We've completely wasted 20 odd million on two forwards who were brilliant at their old clubs and have done the square root of fuck all for us. I get with McCormack much is on him, but getting the best out of players is what an experienced manager like Bruce is meant to do and is paid very well to do.
It is also why signing that little ginger lad at Brentford would be a waste of time. He dictates the play and relies on movement in front of him to thread players in. He would get a crick in his neck in our team.
If we were to continue playing the same style we should have spent the Hogan money on Hugill at Preston and Watkins (then of Exeter).
-
We have started clutching at other teams imploding now as we have lost touch with the top 2, what ever, we still have to put a run of results together including beating the teams at the top of the table.
I would love to know what the magic Steve Bruce formula is that is going to achieve this.
Because he hasn't managed to put a string of wins together before?
How short is your memory?
-
We have started clutching at other teams imploding now as we have lost touch with the top 2, what ever, we still have to put a run of results together including beating the teams at the top of the table.
I would love to know what the magic Steve Bruce formula is that is going to achieve this.
Because he hasn't managed to put a string of wins together before?
How short is your memory?
Not against the top sides, he hasn't. And we need to win something like 13 of the next 15 games to stand a chance its place in the top 2. Do you see Cardiff only winning 5 of those so we can catch up and get beyond them to a safe second position? Make it even ten wins for us. Really?
-
We have started clutching at other teams imploding now as we have lost touch with the top 2, what ever, we still have to put a run of results together including beating the teams at the top of the table.
I would love to know what the magic Steve Bruce formula is that is going to achieve this.
Because he hasn't managed to put a string of wins together before?
How short is your memory?
How many of the top teams have we beaten?
My memory is fine thanks.
-
I think we might go two up top on Saturday. I wonder how much of an effect the creative coach will have on mindset.
The defence is certainly mean enough. The midfield has scored a load. Up top we've been lacking but there's been so many injuries.
-
I think we might go two up top on Saturday. I wonder how much of an effect the creative coach will have on mindset.
The defence is certainly mean enough. The midfield has scored a load. Up top we've been lacking but there's been so many injuries.
Who is the creative coach?
-
I think we might go two up top on Saturday. I wonder how much of an effect the creative coach will have on mindset.
The defence is certainly mean enough. The midfield has scored a load. Up top we've been lacking but there's been so many injuries.
You’d think though it wouldn’t have to take a new coach to get us to play more creatively or at least with that intent. And will he have that much impact in a few days. Either way we need to change something quickly, play more openly, create chances and most importantly take them.
-
I think we might go two up top on Saturday. I wonder how much of an effect the creative coach will have on mindset.
The defence is certainly mean enough. The midfield has scored a load. Up top we've been lacking but there's been so many injuries.
Who is the creative coach?
Steve Agnew. I don’t know if he’s actually joined the club yet.
-
Bit optimistic to think that, Boro scored 8 goals in 11 games he had in charge of them last two months of last season.
Think he'll be more of the ilk keep things tight at the back, keep the shape etc.
-
He's from Shipley and as they say up there, owt's better than nowt.
-
Why isn't there a thread on that? Looks like it's just been casually mentioned. Tut-tut.
-
A rare chance for us to close the gap to 2nd to 7 points. We should have been closer than that already, but no need to cry over spilt milk.
Its useful that Brizzle only managed a point as well.
-
Think Derby are favourites for second now.
Bristol will get bogged down by cup games and Cardiff are losing to bottom three teams so can see them falling away a bit.
-
Yep Woles are too far in front and Derby are the team right now, they'll crash the othervautomatic spot, wecate just looking at play offs at best which is criminal given the money spent. Just imagine if (big if) we did hang on in the play offs Bruce up against a Colin Wanker side. What a spectacle.
-
Yep Woles are too far in front and Derby are the team right now, they'll crash the othervautomatic spot, wecate just looking at play offs at best which is criminal given the money spent. Just imagine if (big if) we did hang on in the play offs Bruce up against a Colin Wanker side. What a spectacle.
Colin Wanker would do us no bother. He at least seems to have a halfway decent and consistent plan given the cards he's dealt. Bruce goes from shit strategy A through Lambertesquian desperation in search of the answer. Today we became RDM's Villa. Get a lead, fuck it up. At 2-0 the primary goal should have been to take the sting out of anything Sheff Utd had in their locker. Instead we let a team a little low on morale to come to our place and quickly get back on level terms. It starts with the manager and feeds its way through to the players.
-
This not winning is doing my head in now. Can anyone get a table up from halfway through last season? We're not that much better off are we?
-
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-championship/26-december-2016/
Found it. Of course we are in a better position but it really feels like we've stalled these past few weeks. Surely we can't have as bad a January and February as last season can we?
-
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-championship/26-december-2016/
Found it. Of course we are in a better position but it really feels like we've stalled these past few weeks. Surely we can't have as bad a January and February as last season can we?
4 points better than the same stage last season, and some people are still insistent that Bruce has done a good job.
-
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/league-championship/26-december-2016/
Found it. Of course we are in a better position but it really feels like we've stalled these past few weeks. Surely we can't have as bad a January and February as last season can we?
4 points better than the same stage last season, and some people are still insistent that Bruce has done a good job.
Given last years start to the season resulted in the manager being fired, to only be 4 points better off this season is shocking.
-
Thought we were miles better off than last season so yes it is worrying.
We are still on course to finish on 76 points. Not sure anyone has ever not got in the top 6 with that tally.
My target was top 2 though. I just wouldn't fancy us in the play offs. All the pressure would be on us for a start and we're not a club in recent years who've cope well with expectation.
-
Thought we were miles better off than last season so yes it is worrying.
We are still on course to finish on 76 points. Not sure anyone has ever not got in the top 6 with that tally.
My target was top 2 though. I just wouldn't fancy us in the play offs. All the pressure would be on us for a start and we're not a club in recent years who've cope well with expectation.
Are we? How many games has it been since we had a win?
-
Thought we were miles better off than last season so yes it is worrying.
We are still on course to finish on 76 points. Not sure anyone has ever not got in the top 6 with that tally.
My target was top 2 though. I just wouldn't fancy us in the play offs. All the pressure would be on us for a start and we're not a club in recent years who've cope well with expectation.
Are we? How many games has it been since we had a win?
I said a while ago December would be a tough month for us and it's gone even worse than predicted as I assume we'd beat Millwall.
You wouldn't bank on us winning any of the next three either.
I do look at February and March though and think we'll go on another good run then (we have games v Barnsley, SHA, Burton, Hull, QPR, Bolton and Sunderland in that period) so they'll be a fair few wins there I'm sure.
Where we'll be in the league at that point I obviously can't tell you.
-
We need to wake the f up...Cardiff are 2 down now.
-
The problem bing we don't beat teams on a par with us I am starting to wonder as to whether or not we will donate Leeds and mess up towards the end
-
Out of the playoff places now. Got to win at Brentford. Cheers Steve
.
-
Fuck off Bruce.
-
Well a win would actually get us within six points of second.
I think we know what's going to happen though....
-
Fuck off Bruce.
Glad tidings he brings in this season of goodwill.
-
Fuck off Bruce.
Glad tidings he brings in this season of goodwill.
Haha, you gotta love the H&V "voice" sometimes, especially at Crimbo it seems.
-
Out of the play offs yet closer to second than we have been for a while despite three poor results.
Hope they've brought their arm bands for tonight. Pissing it down tonight down here.
-
Fuck off Bruce.
Glad tidings he brings in this season of goodwill.
Haha, you gotta love the H&V "voice" sometimes, especially at Crimbo it seems.
To be fair, I agree with aj2k77's sentiment.
-
Me too.
-
Fuck off Bruce.
Glad tidings he brings in this season of goodwill.
Haha, you gotta love the H&V "voice" sometimes, especially at Crimbo it seems.
To be fair, I agree with aj2k77's sentiment.
With baubles on top
-
What a horrendous month. We've lost points on everyone in the league bar Barnsley and Blues.
-
What a horrendous month. We've lost points on everyone in the league bar Barnsley and Blues.
The table makes for very grim reading. If the results go the way I expect, then we will be heading back for the first day at work after New Year in 11 or 12th and with only 20 games to go. Just getting back on the play offs might be a fight. That simply isn't good enough and is made doubly frustrating by Cardiff faltering in recent weeks. We should be breathing down their necks and are instead looking up at Leeds and Middlesbrough, with a clutch of teams below us that could send us tumbling down the table with one win. Very, very poor.
-
The probablity of promotion may be expressed as:
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/65c4d0c6db14685663e754e1dc7d0ce72572cf4e)
Where B = Brucey Blunderballs.
In layman's lingo; fergetaboutit, we are fucked by a fuckwit.
-
(https://thenamiracleoccurs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/miracle2.jpg)
-
Other teams results are irrelevant if we can’t win matches.
-
At the risk of banging the same drum, if we had 2 points a game now (=48 points) we would now be second as Cardiff have choked and fallen behind that average. It really is a golden rule of promotion, you get that target, you get promoted.
In order to achieve that now requires nearly 2.5 points a game ; 18 wins from 22. If we've lost the next 2 at the end of New Years' Day then we would need a run BETTER than Man City to hit that target. In my view, that is D-Day for Bruce. If its then impossible I think he's then toast. In addition, the stink of decay will be too much, a team in freefall, again, and a chairman not sure whether to trust him with any more funds. I think if thats the case then Dr X will look at who can lift the squad, add a couple of loans and take us into the playoffs in winning form.
In the last 20 years of the championship playoffs, the team promoted has finished :
3rd - 8 times - 40%
4th - 2 times - 10%
5th - 6 times - 30%
6th - 4 times - 20%
So statistically that proves very little, apart from perhaps that it really would be best to finish 3rd for the twin advantadges of weakest opposition in the semi finals and home leg second. To get that we are probably still going to have to get 85-86 points. I havent had the time to look if there is a correlation between finishing with a strong winning streak and getting through but I would tend to think thats probably going to help to intimidate the opposition.
-
Interesting fixtures this weekend. Derby and Leeds both away and cardiff playing Preston and wolves playing Bristol C. Only one of our rivals with a relatively easy game on paper is Sheff U. Of course us having Boro spoils it somewhat, but if ever a win was going to make the table look better its this weekend. Lose and i think that's it for Nan's hair
-
Cardiff lost again! But Preston won so are now above us.
-
Still think 85 points will be enough.
Currently it's 94 points but that's if it's a 50 game season.
I wonder how far short we'll be off that at the end. It's frustrating as we have plenty winnable home games in February and March when you look at who we're playing.
-
We just need to go on a good run again. We've already shown we can do it, but whether they have the confidence to at the moment is another thing.
-
It’s always darkest before dawn.
In other words, the only way now is up.
Let’s do this you bastards
-
It’s always darkest before dawn.
In other words, the only way now is up.
Let’s do this you bastards
That's a bit two faced. We need a win to put a Dent into the lead others have over us.
-
Hey ifwalters where are we now on the maths so to speak?
Bristol have lost out and 1-2 with wolves so the promotion places are slightly closer right?
And 3 points on Monday could mean a narrow of the promotion gap?
Some questions to ask how likely for top 2 spots? and how we looking for play offs? What is the revision of points for achievement
It was, results wise, good all round in favuors of the villa so hoping the maths match the matches left!?
-
Bristol, Leeds and Sheffield United losing, a good day for us.
-
Beat Bristol and things start getting interesting again.
Derby have some tricky fixtures next month.
-
Looking at the january game,s i've got 3 wins as a minimum out of 4, maybe 2 wins and a draw. Think we will lose at Forest, need to win Bristol C and Barnsley, and sheffield United should be the away win. 9 or 7 points isn't really enough to my mind, unless Cardiff and Bristol C are going to continue to lose and Derby start losing. Hope that doesn't sound too hysterical.
-
Looking at the january game,s i've got 3 wins as a minimum out of 4, maybe 2 wins and a draw. Think we will lose at Forest, need to win Bristol C and Barnsley, and sheffield United should be the away win. 9 or 7 points isn't really enough to my mind, unless Cardiff and Bristol C are going to continue to lose and Derby start losing. Hope that doesn't sound too hysterical.
Out of interest why do you think we' ll lose at Forest ? Theyre utter gash
-
Looking at the january game,s i've got 3 wins as a minimum out of 4, maybe 2 wins and a draw. Think we will lose at Forest, need to win Bristol C and Barnsley, and sheffield United should be the away win. 9 or 7 points isn't really enough to my mind, unless Cardiff and Bristol C are going to continue to lose and Derby start losing. Hope that doesn't sound too hysterical.
Out of interest why do you think we' ll lose at Forest ? Theyre utter gash
Said before, they're the average championship side along with ipswich and norwich. Home advantage, 1 less point than us in the last 5 games. Just a feeling i guess
-
I think Forest have won as many games as us which I was surprised to see.
-
I think Forest have won as many games as us which I was surprised to see.
One less but yes I was surprised too
-
They don't really do draws
-
After tonight only Wolves have the 2 points per game. All to play for!
-
I get all this points per game thing but it’s really going to be about how teams react to pressure down the stretch and much will be down to their resources. We finally showed today with the right approach that despite having key players out we can batter teams in or around us. Teams won’t want to come to Villa Park based on our home record. As the season progresses all of our opponents will suffer injuries, loss of form and naturally nerves will set in. We have a squad and a manager that has a lot of experience.
Today should be a signal to Bruce and everyone around us of our capabilities. Bruce just needs to be committed to it.
-
Beat Bristol and things start getting interesting again.
Derby have some tricky fixtures next month.
Just to add a bit more to that Derby's next three are:
SHA away, SHA have a weird knack of getting results against the top 10. They could be amusingly very useful to us in the last four months.
Bristol City home, Hopefully they'll be better than tonight!
Millwall away, they don't lose many at the Den.
I'm hopeful we'll be closer than 5 points at the end of January. We could well have a game in hand aswell.
-
Just realised that Derby is our last home game of the season...
-
Just realised that Derby is our last home game of the season...
Proud of you, Desmond. Well done. I never knew.
-
Think we need 7 points from next 3: forest away, Barnsley home and Sheffield utd away. Oh and shock Cup exit wouldn't go amiss, try out micah in goal.
-
Starting to look a lot rosier within the space of less than a week
I’m sure it won’t prevent another bout of despair next time we lose though!
-
Think we need 7 points from next 3: forest away, Barnsley home and Sheffield utd away. Oh and shock Cup exit wouldn't go amiss, try out micah in goal.
Stop being so defeatist! One, let's call him a moron, rang up WM last night saying he thought as a minimum we need 8 points from the next three games!
-
With Steve Bruce's "The spectaculars" Aston Villa banging in five or six each game I reckon we will be alright.
-
Think we need 7 points from next 3: forest away, Barnsley home and Sheffield utd away. Oh and shock Cup exit wouldn't go amiss, try out micah in goal.
Stop being so defeatist! One, let's call him a moron, rang up WM last night saying he thought as a minimum we need 8 points from the next three games!
He was just a bit confused, probably thought Posh game was in the league.
Just as I was getting into the car there was a caller on there who said he'd been to the match as a neutral and we were useless, had no youth academy either, basically just saying the opposite of what actually happened.
Even Franks called him out given how ridiculous the points were, clearly a nose on the wind up.
-
Think we need 7 points from next 3: forest away, Barnsley home and Sheffield utd away. Oh and shock Cup exit wouldn't go amiss, try out micah in goal.
Stop being so defeatist! One, let's call him a moron, rang up WM last night saying he thought as a minimum we need 8 points from the next three games!
He was just a bit confused, probably thought Posh game was in the league.
Just as I was getting into the car there was a caller on there who said he'd been to the match as a neutral and we were useless, had no youth academy either, basically just saying the opposite of what actually happened.
Even Franks called him out given how ridiculous the points were, clearly a nose on the wind up.
I don't think the humour is about the cup game, it's about how exactly do you get 8 points from 3 games? 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9 are all possible. But not 8.
-
Think we need 7 points from next 3: forest away, Barnsley home and Sheffield utd away. Oh and shock Cup exit wouldn't go amiss, try out micah in goal.
Stop being so defeatist! One, let's call him a moron, rang up WM last night saying he thought as a minimum we need 8 points from the next three games!
He was just a bit confused, probably thought Posh game was in the league.
Just as I was getting into the car there was a caller on there who said he'd been to the match as a neutral and we were useless, had no youth academy either, basically just saying the opposite of what actually happened.
Even Franks called him out given how ridiculous the points were, clearly a nose on the wind up.
I don't think the humour is about the cup game, it's about how exactly do you get 8 points from 3 games? 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 9 are all possible. But not 8.
That's why they're a moron.
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
-
Starting to look a lot rosier within the space of less than a week
I’m sure it won’t prevent another bout of despair next time we lose though!
We’re going to lose again this season. What people tend to get pissed off about is the manner in which we’ve lost games. In many we’ve been second best by a mile. If we lose trying to win them most will accept we have it a shot even if the result wasn’t as desired.
-
Things seem to be coming together for us over Christmas and New Year. Reminiscent of our last promotion season.
-
-
Starting to look a lot rosier within the space of less than a week
I’m sure it won’t prevent another bout of despair next time we lose though!
We’re going to lose again this season. What people tend to get pissed off about is the manner in which we’ve lost games. In many we’ve been second best by a mile. If we lose trying to win them most will accept we have it a shot even if the result wasn’t as desired.
Yep. No sensible person expects us to win every game and chalk up a cricket score. We do expect to attack and try to win though. He would have a lot more goodwill in the tank if our losses were genuine off days or where we had a good go but were beaten by the better side on the day. If they come when you barely muster a shot, or punt it at Hogan's head from 40 yards away, then he is bound to cop some flak.
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
85-88 points will be enough for automatic promotion I reckon. No stand out second place team like Brighton last year.
I'd be very surprised if Derby, us, Bristol or Cardiff got 90 points.
-
Just thought I’d put forward an alternative view on this 2 points per game malarkey to get close to automatic promotion.
If spread evenly throughout the season, 2 points per game means we need to take 4 points from each team (1 win, 1 draw), making a total of 92 points at the end of the season.
As we have only recently have passed the half way mark of the season, we can start to see how this is starting to pan out.
That good win against Bristol means we’ve took our 4 points quota from them. The same goes for Boro.
However, obviously we are 3 points behind this target for Brentford so there’s just a little bit of ground to make up there.
Assuming we win the return games of the other 5 games we’ve lost (yes, its a big assumption!), by my reckoning we could get 84 points at the moment (92, minus the 3 Brentford points & minus the other 5 points).
-
If only this football malarkey were played on paper . I’m already dreaming of our final home game of the season against Derby when the winner goes up automatically, needless to say we win handsomely roared on by a full house passionate Villa Park. Sweet dreams fellow Villans
-
it would be great for the midlands if we, Wolves and Derby went up.
-
it would be great for the midlands if we, Wolves and Derby went up.
I would take that!
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
I reckon we might lose the Sheff Wednesday home game. My head says 2-1.
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
I reckon we might lose the Sheff Wednesday home game. My head says 2-1.
Wouldn't surprise me if they scored quite early on.
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
I reckon we might lose the Sheff Wednesday home game. My head says 2-1.
Wouldn't surprise me if they scored quite early on.
I'd like to think at least 8 points from the next 4 and that would set us up nicely for the Burton & The Undead games, win those 2 and we'd be right in there.
-
it would be great for the midlands if we, Wolves and Derby went up.
And even better if the Bitters and Blues went down - it would be like a colonic irrigation for the city
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
I reckon we might lose the Sheff Wednesday home game. My head says 2-1.
Wouldn't surprise me if they scored quite early on.
If you’re so sure put some money on it. And why not go further and stick some on it being a bomb from a long way out. I heard the lad Reach has a decent shot on him.
-
Of that lot Fulham might outplay us now they're finally starting to get the results that their style of play perhaps merits but I can see us winning most of the others.
Pity we're not playing Wednesday next, they are in awful form and may have new manager bounce by the time we meet.
-
Of that lot Fulham might outplay us now they're finally starting to get the results that their style of play perhaps merits but I can see us winning most of the others.
Pity we're not playing Wednesday next, they are in awful form and may have new manager bounce by the time we meet.
I think this new manager bounce is entirely a myth or one of those urban legends. I bet there are just as many teams if not more where nothing positive happens at all than a team in shit form suddenly finds a way to win. Teams tend to fire managers because they are awful. Just because manager X walks in doesn't automatically believe in themselves again.
Look at our recent record:
Lambert lost his first game vs West Ham. Sherwood lost his first actual game in charge to Stoke. Garde you could argue got a performance out of us to get a draw vs Man City but it went south fast after that. We got battered in Eric Black's first game and the rest of his short stint. RDM lost his first game as manager to Sheff Wed. Bruce got a draw and then lost.
For other teams I'm sure at times it gives the players a new voice and gets them going. But Pulis just lost to us. Pardew is giving us all laughs at the bitters. And Lambert going anywhere after he left us has been an unmitigated disaster.
-
Of that lot Fulham might outplay us now they're finally starting to get the results that their style of play perhaps merits but I can see us winning most of the others.
Pity we're not playing Wednesday next, they are in awful form and may have new manager bounce by the time we meet.
I think this new manager bounce is entirely a myth or one of those urban legends. I bet there are just as many teams if not more where nothing positive happens at all than a team in shit form suddenly finds a way to win. Teams tend to fire managers because they are awful. Just because manager X walks in doesn't automatically believe in themselves again.
Look at our recent record:
Lambert lost his first game vs West Ham. Sherwood lost his first actual game in charge to Stoke. Garde you could argue got a performance out of us to get a draw vs Man City but it went south fast after that. We got battered in Eric Black's first game and the rest of his short stint. RDM lost his first game as manager to Sheff Wed. Bruce got a draw and then lost.
For other teams I'm sure at times it gives the players a new voice and gets them going. But Pulis just lost to us. Pardew is giving us all laughs at the bitters. And Lambert going anywhere after he left us has been an unmitigated disaster.
Nah, it definitely exists but the maths aren't as simple as it appears. There was a book by a Warwick Business School professor (Sue Bridgewater if you're interested) a few years back that was all about applying normal management logic to football and one of the points in it was that the average sacking comes when a team is gaining around 1 point per game for a 10-12 (3month) period. Over the next 3 months the average increases to 1.3 so roughly a 30% boost. However it gets more complicated because if you pick teams with a 1 point per game or below average over that time who don't sack their manager they also see the average increase to a similar level (it's slightly less but that can easily be accounted for). So on average it doesn't make a difference (however that's only averages, there's plenty of examples of it working and plenty of the new guy making a fucking mess of things) but the bounce is real. If that makes sense.
-
Of course it's not a constant correlation. But personally I'd rather face a team with a beleaguered caretaker still in charge than a new, more experienced manager scheming against us. A fresh face can be the difference in giving players a lift. It may well have just happened to us with Agnew.
-
Of that lot Fulham might outplay us now they're finally starting to get the results that their style of play perhaps merits but I can see us winning most of the others.
Pity we're not playing Wednesday next, they are in awful form and may have new manager bounce by the time we meet.
I think this new manager bounce is entirely a myth or one of those urban legends. I bet there are just as many teams if not more where nothing positive happens at all than a team in shit form suddenly finds a way to win. Teams tend to fire managers because they are awful. Just because manager X walks in doesn't automatically believe in themselves again.
Look at our recent record:
Lambert lost his first game vs West Ham. Sherwood lost his first actual game in charge to Stoke. Garde you could argue got a performance out of us to get a draw vs Man City but it went south fast after that. We got battered in Eric Black's first game and the rest of his short stint. RDM lost his first game as manager to Sheff Wed. Bruce got a draw and then lost.
For other teams I'm sure at times it gives the players a new voice and gets them going. But Pulis just lost to us. Pardew is giving us all laughs at the bitters. And Lambert going anywhere after he left us has been an unmitigated disaster.
Think Sherwood won 3 of his first 5 here so considering when he came in we hadn't won for three months that was certainly new manager bounce.
It dosen't always have to be winning your first game but say over a month-6 week period. Hodgson at Palace would be a good example of that. Actually lost his first three but look how much they've improved since.
-
I’d like to take a look at some stats where it has gone abysmally wrong like with Garde or at Albion with Pardew. I’m not dismissing the entire notion that a new face, voice, ideas has an impact where the situation may not have become absolutely dire. But I think the underlying belief that a change in manager guarantees any kind of bounce I think is a little overplayed.
-
Fair enough. Now let's just beat Sheffield Wednesday, regardless of who they have geeing them up when that match comes around ;)
-
OK I have concluded that we will get promoted in second place despite Bruce.
-
Of that lot Fulham might outplay us now they're finally starting to get the results that their style of play perhaps merits but I can see us winning most of the others.
Pity we're not playing Wednesday next, they are in awful form and may have new manager bounce by the time we meet.
I think this new manager bounce is entirely a myth or one of those urban legends. I bet there are just as many teams if not more where nothing positive happens at all than a team in shit form suddenly finds a way to win. Teams tend to fire managers because they are awful. Just because manager X walks in doesn't automatically believe in themselves again.
Look at our recent record:
Lambert lost his first game vs West Ham. Sherwood lost his first actual game in charge to Stoke. Garde you could argue got a performance out of us to get a draw vs Man City but it went south fast after that. We got battered in Eric Black's first game and the rest of his short stint. RDM lost his first game as manager to Sheff Wed. Bruce got a draw and then lost.
For other teams I'm sure at times it gives the players a new voice and gets them going. But Pulis just lost to us. Pardew is giving us all laughs at the bitters. And Lambert going anywhere after he left us has been an unmitigated disaster.
Nah, it definitely exists but the maths aren't as simple as it appears. There was a book by a Warwick Business School professor (Sue Bridgewater if you're interested) a few years back that was all about applying normal management logic to football and one of the points in it was that the average sacking comes when a team is gaining around 1 point per game for a 10-12 (3month) period. Over the next 3 months the average increases to 1.3 so roughly a 30% boost. However it gets more complicated because if you pick teams with a 1 point per game or below average over that time who don't sack their manager they also see the average increase to a similar level (it's slightly less but that can easily be accounted for). So on average it doesn't make a difference (however that's only averages, there's plenty of examples of it working and plenty of the new guy making a fucking mess of things) but the bounce is real. If that makes sense.
It’s called reverting to the mean,
In the same way if Man City sacked Pep now and put a new manager in charge their average points per game is likely to drop.
-
We will lose at Fulham, I'm going, sorry, I've never seen us win there!
-
it would be great for the midlands if we, Wolves and Derby went up.
The 3 biggest clubs in the region for me.
-
The aim for automatic promotion is around the 2 points per game mark. Wolves are running at about 2.3 so are romping it. Derby in 2nd are 1.88. We are 1.7.
The aim for the end of Feb should be around 62 points. Another 18 points from 8 games. All are winnable: -
Forest (a)
Barnsley (h)
Sheff U (a)
Burton (h)
SHA (h)
Fulham (a)
Preston (h)
Sheff W (h)
I reckon we might lose the Sheff Wednesday home game. My head says 2-1.
Wouldn't surprise me if they scored quite early on.
If you’re so sure put some money on it. And why not go further and stick some on it being a bomb from a long way out. I heard the lad Reach has a decent shot on him.
Alright lads, I made a typo ;)
-
it would be great for the midlands if we, Wolves and Derby went up.
The 3 biggest clubs in the region for me.
Forest's 2 European Cups?
-
There's only one big club in the Midlands. All our rivals are a bit meh. Some s lot more meh than others.
Forest aren't as big as Derby though.
-
Derby have better support than Forest.
-
Forest aren't as big as Derby though.
By what measure?
- Forest have won 10 major trophies to Derby's 3
- Forest were a top flight team for the vast majority of the period from the late 1950's to 2000 whereas Derby spent most of that time in the 2nd division
- Forest's record attendance is near enough 50,000, Derby's is 42,000, although I'll grant you Derby's recent attendances have been higher but that's coincided with Forest being under crazy owners and Derby generally hovering around the playoffs
- Stadia are similar sizes
I just don't see it.
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
How do you work that out? they're both football towns - Nottingham has 2 clubs, one of them a founder member of the Football League.
Although I hate to admit that Wolves and the Albion are "bigger" than both of them
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
Nottingham has two long standing league clubs. How can it not be a football town?
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
Although I hate to admit that Wolves and the Albion are "bigger" than both of them
I'd agree with that too.
But really, they're all a bit wanky.
-
I grew up in Derby in the 70s when they won the league twice. For a town/City of less than a quarter of a million to be getting crowds over 30,000 shows its a football town to me.
-
I went to Uni in Nottingham in the late 80s and early 90s when Forest were one of the best teams in the country and the atmosphere at the City Ground was generally akin to a library. Rubbish fans.
-
Nottingham has two long standing league clubs. How can it not be a football town?
I always put it down to the fact that Nottingham had/has more other attractions than Derby (proper university, Trent Bridge for international cricket, ice hockey team, tennis open, plus its a bit more of a tourist town etc).
-
with respect that's bullshit. Any town boasting two historic clubs is a place with footballing pedigree.
-
Surely any town or city with a football team that gets support is a football town?
-
Surely any town or city with a football team that gets support is a football town?
Wigan..?
-
Nottingham has two long standing league clubs. How can it not be a football town?
Now here's a debate : Is Birmingham a football City?
I always put it down to the fact that Nottingham had/has more other attractions than Derby (proper university, Trent Bridge for international cricket, ice hockey team, tennis open, plus its a bit more of a tourist town etc).
-
I went to Uni in Nottingham in the late 80s and early 90s when Forest were one of the best teams in the country and the atmosphere at the City Ground was generally akin to a library. Rubbish fans.
I went in the mid 70s and remained in Nottingham until 1985, coinciding with them being champions and subsequently winning 2 European Cups. Yes, really poor fans.
I remember one Forest "supporter" who I worked with telling me in the weeks in the run up to Christmas one year how they were going to give us a football lesson in the match that was scheduled during the Christmas and New Year period. Returning to work for a day around the 29th December he took great delight in telling me that he knew we'd get a stuffing from the mighty Forest. I was able to have the satisfaction of publicly pointing out to him that the match wasn't until New Year. His response was "Oh, who did we beat on Boxing Day then?"
Unfortunately they did beat us in the New Year. Not sure of the exact Year but somewhere between 1980 and 1984.
-
Surely any town or city with a football team that gets support is a football town?
Coventry isn't a football town. I worked there for a while, yet still met very few Cov fans.
-
Surely any town or city with a football team that gets support is a football town?
Coventry isn't a football town. I worked there for a while, yet still met very few Cov fans.
That’s because they all support Liverpool or Man United. Wankers
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
How do you work that out? they're both football towns - Nottingham has 2 clubs, one of them a founder member of the Football League.
Although I hate to admit that Wolves and the Albion are "bigger" than both of them
Albion bigger than Derby? I don’t think so.
-
Where's this Derby love in come from?
As much as I hate the Olbiyun they've won more than double the trophies Derby have. Derby are barely bigger than the Blues.
-
Further (subjective examples):
Leeds isnt a football town (it’s a rugby league town)
Leicester isn’t a football town (it’s a rugby union town)
London isnt a football town
Paris isn’t a football town
Preston is a football town
Whereas
Derby is a football town
Sunderland is a football town
São Paulo is a football town
Wigan isn’t a football town
Etc
-
I'm with Ad@m on the Derby thing. They've been "famous" for less time than Leeds. Same with Forest. The successes for both of them have been blips, albeit quite big blips in the latter's case, but still blips nonetheless, in otherwise utterly unremarkable histories.
-
Further (subjective examples):
Leeds isnt a football town (it’s a rugby league town)
Leicester isn’t a football town (it’s a rugby union town)
London isnt a football town
Paris isn’t a football town
Preston is a football town
Whereas
Derby is a football town
Sunderland is a football town
São Paulo is a football town
Wigan isn’t a football town
Etc
I get where you're coming from with Leeds. Rugby was the established winter sport there first. Same goes for Bradford and Huddersfield. See also Bristol. Football of course became more popular in all these places because that's what football does. However I can see the reasoning that these might not be football towns.
This is demonstrably not true about Nottingham though with football teams dating from the 1860s and a rugby team dating from the 1870s. Personally I'd say any town/city with a team in the original 12 is a football town.
-
Controversial... but is Birmingham a football town? I think the size of the city dilutes the effect, unlike somewhere Liverpool or Newcastle.
-
Controversial... but is Birmingham a football town? I think the size of the city dilutes the effect, unlike somewhere Liverpool or Newcastle.
Yes we’re a football town
-
Derby is a football town. Nottingham isn't.
How do you work that out? they're both football towns - Nottingham has 2 clubs, one of them a founder member of the Football League.
Although I hate to admit that Wolves and the Albion are "bigger" than both of them
Albion bigger than Derby? I don’t think so.
One League title, five FA Cups and a League Cup vs two League titles and one FA Cup. Albion have also played more than six hundred more top flight games, that must be about fifteen more years at the highest level.
Struggling to see how Albion aren't bigger than Derby.
-
I think a "football town" (or city) is one where football is an all-consuming identity of the place, it's religion if you like. Newcastle is the obvious example. The football club is the toon. Glasgow is a 2 club example. As I said earlier, if Derby, population 230,000 can get 30,000 for a home game, we'll over 10% of the population then to me that's a fair measure of a football town. By that measure, Birmingham isn't, not at the moment.
-
Sheringham is not a football town
Charlton is not a football town
Albrighton is not a football town
Grays (A, A, S) is not a football town
Rowley Regis is not a football town
Neither is Bognor Regis
Or Lyme Regis
Austin is not a football town. It is an American city
But Dallas is a football referee
Delph is a brass band town
Morecambe was a director of Luton Town
Kendall was almost one of a midfield of Bell, Book and Kendall
Kendal is a mint cake town
Small Heath is an endangered butterfly
In the words of Forrest Gump, that is all I have to say about that.
-
Controversial... but is Birmingham a football town? I think the size of the city dilutes the effect, unlike somewhere Liverpool or Newcastle.
We've sort of had this discussion before. There's no doubt that West Midlands clubs get lower crowds as a proportion of the population than North West and North East clubs.
Is that down to the range of leisure activities on offer? I'd be surprised if we've got that much more than the North West. It could be cultural though - there's definitely a broader mix of cultures in the Midlands compared to the North.
-
far out man.
-
One of the best one liners ever on television was on Not The Nine O'Clock News.
"There now follows a message to our viewers in the North. We are so sorry"
-
Sky mentioning Stoke may go for Rowett. Hopefully they get him and de-rail their promotion push.
-
Or we could go for Rowett and boost our own push while hurting a rival's.
-
Why? He's just Bruce if Bruce was from Bromsgrove and without the promotions.
-
Why? He's just Bruce if Bruce was from Bromsgrove and without the promotions.
He does a bit more on the training pitch but I take your point. Rowett is very much a safety first manager.
-
Controversial... but is Birmingham a football town? I think the size of the city dilutes the effect, unlike somewhere Liverpool or Newcastle.
We've sort of had this discussion before. There's no doubt that West Midlands clubs get lower crowds as a proportion of the population than North West and North East clubs.
Is that down to the range of leisure activities on offer? I'd be surprised if we've got that much more than the North West. It could be cultural though - there's definitely a broader mix of cultures in the Midlands compared to the North.
Thing for me is think back to your schooldays and how many gloryhunting football fans there were compared to local club supporters. Just wouldn't happen in Merseyside or the North east.
West Midlands is certainly mixed as a football area. Certainly plenty of football fans but plenty support non local teams.
-
Further (subjective examples):
Leeds isnt a football town (it’s a rugby league town)
Leicester isn’t a football town (it’s a rugby union town)
London isnt a football town
Paris isn’t a football town
Preston is a football town
Whereas
Derby is a football town
Sunderland is a football town
São Paulo is a football town
Wigan isn’t a football town
Etc
I get where you're coming from with Leeds. Rugby was the established winter sport there first. Same goes for Bradford and Huddersfield. See also Bristol. Football of course became more popular in all these places because that's what football does. However I can see the reasoning that these might not be football towns.
This is demonstrably not true about Nottingham though with football teams dating from the 1860s and a rugby team dating from the 1870s. Personally I'd say any town/city with a team in the original 12 is a football town.
I wouldn't agree about Huddersfield. I've been here nearly 20 years and the club are a huge deal, currently pulling in over 15% of the population. It would be more if they had capacity, they have about 20,000 season ticket holders. Even when I first arrived when they were in the third and fourth divisions they averaged over 10,000. Rugby league is pretty popular but it's always been in the shadow of the football club. Winning the league three years on the bounce in the 1920s, plus legends like Shankly and Law, has embedded them in the local culture.
-
Derby play Bristol City next Friday.
I cant see anything but a Derby win at the moment, althugh I can see us pukking away from the chasing pack and overtaking Cardiff in the next 2-3 weeks.
-
Derby play Bristol City next Friday.
I cant see anything but a Derby win at the moment, althugh I can see us pukking away from the chasing pack and overtaking Cardiff in the next 2-3 weeks.
a draw will be very nice
-
40 more points will get us second I reckon.
10 points from the next four would be lovely and very achievable given the fixtures. I get the feeling we'll grind out an away win in Sheffield but draw one of the winnable home games.
-
I've felt and said that the strength in depth from February on would be when the likes of Derby, Fulham and ourselves claw back the points on the surprise packages of the season.
I have 92 points down as the requirement for 2nd to guarantee it but you may well be right SHQ.
10 points from the next 4 would be very good. We need to ensure we knock over Barnsley to make it 4 from 4 in this quintet of games. Puts us 4 points over the 2 points per game mark too.
-
40 more points will get us second I reckon.
You could be correct as other than Wolves no one has averaged 2 points per game. Derby are on an incredible run and that will end soon however Cardiff are a bigger danger as they are proving to be resilient so far this season. I think if we get 40 plus 1 points from 20 games we will nail second position.
-
40 more points will get us second I reckon.
You could be correct as other than Wolves no one has averaged 2 points per game. Derby are on an incredible run and that will end soon however Cardiff are a bigger danger as they are proving to be resilient so far this season. I think if we get 40 plus 1 points from 20 games we will nail second position.
Cardiff just lost four in a row before they had the freebie of Sunderland at home.
Not sure they'll even make top 6.
Derby don't concede many and have plenty of strikers. They're very similar to us in terms of style aswell so think they'll be fighting for second until the last day.
-
Kendal is a mint cake town
Footlights Kendal Mintcake.
-
Cardiff just lost four in a row before they had the freebie of Sunderland at home.
Not sure they'll even make top 6.
But they have been around the top two most of the season.
-
Is Darren Bent still on their books? Maybe he can help is out on the decisive day in April.
-
I'm with Ad@m on the Derby thing. They've been "famous" for less time than Leeds. Same with Forest. The successes for both of them have been blips, albeit quite big blips in the latter's case, but still blips nonetheless, in otherwise utterly unremarkable histories.
A bit like us bar 100+ years ago and a brief spell in the early 80s?
-
We've spent over 100 years in the top flight. Most of these other clubs are only pushing half of that.
Must have missed winning a few trophies in the 70s and 90s and qualifying for Europe a good dozen or so times if not more.
Irrelevant us ah?
-
Cardiff just lost four in a row before they had the freebie of Sunderland at home.
Not sure they'll even make top 6.
But they have been around the top two most of the season.
So were Sheffield and they quickly fell out of the top 6 after a poor run around xmas.
Cardiff won their first five games so they had a 10 point lead on us at the start of the season. That lead has pretty much evaporated now so think they'll struggle to finish in the play offs, don't see them being more of a factor than Derby for second.
-
We've spent over 100 years in the top flight. Most of these other clubs are only pushing half of that.
Must have missed winning a few trophies in the 70s and 90s and qualifying for Europe a good dozen or so times if not more.
Irrelevant us ah?
Another way of looking at it, two league cups in last 25 years. Same haul as Spurs.
-
And probably then beats Everton's one FA Cup win in that time #minorvictories
-
Just spotted our penultimate game is home to Derby, could be a cup final that one
-
34 points haul between now and the end of the season, will 81 points be enough for automatic promotion?
-
Wouldn't have thought so. Aim for 92, but it may be the mid-80s that's enough.
Last season Fulham finished 6th with 80 points, but that was an unusually high total required. 70 plus should be enough for the Play Offs. 85/7 likely enough for 2nd. 92 would guarantee it.
-
Wouldn't have thought so. Aim for 92, but it may be the mid-80s that's enough.
Last season Fulham finished 6th with 80 points, but that was an unusually high total required. 70 plus should be enough for the Play Offs. 85/7 likely enough for 2nd. 92 would guarantee it.
Unless Derby get 93. But yeah, I know what you mean.
-
Wouldn't have thought so. Aim for 92, but it may be the mid-80s that's enough.
Last season Fulham finished 6th with 80 points, but that was an unusually high total required. 70 plus should be enough for the Play Offs. 85/7 likely enough for 2nd. 92 would guarantee it.
Unless Derby get 93. But yeah, I know what you mean.
Getting 92 and not making the automatic spots would be the first time since the league has been in this format (92-93).
The bottom end of automatic promotion would be about 87-88 I think given Derby look strong so 40 points is right on the edge. 12 wins and 4 draws from the last 19 to get that though so we really haven't got much wiggle room and we're close to the point where a 'good away point' is worth nothing to us. I agree with Ads we really should be looking at 12 points from the next 4, that's then 7 wins on the bounce, which is the sort of form that drags you into the automatic promotion spots.
For the playoffs I think it'll be about 75 this year.
-
win the next 7 games and we will be on 34 played with 68 points - back on target
bring it on ;)
-
have we ever won 10 consecutive games?
-
Maybe when Einstein and Chaplin were children.
-
Think we need 14 wins from what's left and no more than 3 defeats. Going to be close but if Derby could have a wobble then it might not take 90 points. Behind us I think Fulham are the team on the move. We need Derby to have a 'Villa December' or a 'MON March'.
-
Or a ‘Lambert season’.
-
A Lambert Jan'13 would be great.
-
have we ever won 10 consecutive games?
I've only got as far as World War One but the best I've found is eleven straight wins in 1914.
Stoke (h) 1-0 (FA Cup)
Sunderland (h) 5-0
Everton (a) 4-1
Exeter (a) 2-1 (FA Cup)
WBA (h) 2-0
Wednesday (a) 3-2
WBA (h) 2-1 (FA Cup)
Bolton (h) 1-0
Chelsea (a) 3-0
Wednesday (a) 1-0 (FA Cup)
Man Utd (a) 6-0 (!)
Ended with a goalless home draw against Oldham. We went on to finish runners-up to Blackburn and lost in the Semi-Final of the cup to Liverpool.
Will look to see if I can find a better sequence tomorrow when I'm supposed to be working.
-
On our current points per game schedule - we would achieve 80 pts
In every season from 2008-2016 - that would be enough for the playoffs - even last season where the 6th team finished with 80 pts
At Home we have
4 games against Top 7
1 game against Preston - currently 9th
5 games against teams in the bottom 11
Away - we have
3 games against top half
6 games against bottom half teams - including 3 of the bottom 5.
I know optimism in this thread is about as rare as unicorn shit, but....
2nd place is more problematic - the 4 highest pts totals for 2nd place have happened in the last 4 years
93-89-89-93
Of the 7 teams who went up in those years (Burnley twice) only 1 (Boro) is back down here - so its no surprise that the points totals were so high.
Derby on their current schedule would just about match those figures - they would finish with 89 pts.(And Wolves would get 106)
We have 19 games left - a record of W9 D6 L4 would get us to 80 pts - and that's with only 9 wins
In summary - we're all shit - and let's take one game at a time LOL
-
We are not or should not lose 4 games from now on so the question is how many we can actually win with minimum number of drawn matches? I am saying win 13 draw 4 lose 2. 90 points second place. However in the past Bruce’s teams have not achieved this required level of results.
-
If I am reading you right Sir, we can only afford to lose 2 and draw 4, that would get us 90 points.
That means winning 13 from 19, that is a big ask.
Still looks like play offs.
-
It does look tough.
But the reality is if we can beat Derby at home then the gap is effectively 2 points with 18 other games games to bridge it.
-
On our current points per game schedule - we would achieve 80 pts
In every season from 2008-2016 - that would be enough for the playoffs - even last season where the 6th team finished with 80 pts
At Home we have
4 games against Top 7
1 game against Preston - currently 9th
5 games against teams in the bottom 11
Away - we have
3 games against top half
6 games against bottom half teams - including 3 of the bottom 5.
I know optimism in this thread is about as rare as unicorn shit, but....
2nd place is more problematic - the 4 highest pts totals for 2nd place have happened in the last 4 years
93-89-89-93
Of the 7 teams who went up in those years (Burnley twice) only 1 (Boro) is back down here - so its no surprise that the points totals were so high.
Derby on their current schedule would just about match those figures - they would finish with 89 pts.(And Wolves would get 106)
We have 19 games left - a record of W9 D6 L4 would get us to 80 pts - and that's with only 9 wins
In summary - we're all shit - and let's take one game at a time LOL
The last line is exactly what I'm thinking and normally have done. Absolutely anything can happen so I don't bother thinking too far ahead. Take each game as it comes and see what happens with the other results on the day.
-
It does look tough.
But the reality is if we can beat Derby at home then the gap is effectively 2 points with 18 other games games to bridge it.
That's the key. by 17th Feb we'll have played away at all the Top 11 and have a bunch of them to play at home, including Derby who we play on 28th April. A key game at a key time.....
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
-
It does look tough.
But the reality is if we can beat Derby at home then the gap is effectively 2 points with 18 other games games to bridge it.
Three points? Cardiff are three ahead of us. Though we play them at home too (10th April) so maybe you're right!
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
One home defeat is good, though we could really have done with more than 7 wins and obviously fewer than 5 draws.
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
One home defeat is good, though we could really have done with more than 7 wins and obviously fewer than 5 draws.
Oh I agree, that's the problem really, too many home draws against weaker sides who came for the draw and that we had no idea how to break down.
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
One home defeat is good, though we could really have done with more than 7 wins and obviously fewer than 5 draws.
Oh I agree, that's the problem really, too many home draws against weaker sides who came for the draw and that we had no idea how to break down.
Which will ultimately decide our fate. Can't see us losing many but our lack of goals for stops us turning those tight games into wins. Too many draws will probably do our chances of 2nd.
-
Next 5 games in the next 4 weeks :
Barnsley h
Sheff Utd a
Burton h
Scum h
Fulham a
Should be 3 routine home wins and a couple of tricky away games. Im going for 13 points from this lot and us breathing down Derby's neck.
-
have we ever won 10 consecutive games?
I've only got as far as World War One but the best I've found is eleven straight wins in 1914.
Stoke (h) 1-0 (FA Cup)
Sunderland (h) 5-0
Everton (a) 4-1
Exeter (a) 2-1 (FA Cup)
WBA (h) 2-0
Wednesday (a) 3-2
WBA (h) 2-1 (FA Cup)
Bolton (h) 1-0
Chelsea (a) 3-0
Wednesday (a) 1-0 (FA Cup)
Man Utd (a) 6-0 (!)
Ended with a goalless home draw against Oldham. We went on to finish runners-up to Blackburn and lost in the Semi-Final of the cup to Liverpool.
Will look to see if I can find a better sequence tomorrow when I'm supposed to be working.
Highest number of league wins in a row, as far as I can see:
9 - 1910-11
9 - 1896-97 - 1897-98
8 - 1974-75
7 - 1989-90
7 - 1980-81
7 - 1930-31
7 - 1919-20
7 - 1913-14
7 - 1898-99
-
Didn't Lambert set some consecutive game records......?
Oh wait...
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
One home defeat is good, though we could really have done with more than 7 wins and obviously fewer than 5 draws.
Oh I agree, that's the problem really, too many home draws against weaker sides who came for the draw and that we had no idea how to break down.
Which will ultimately decide our fate. Can't see us losing many but our lack of goals for stops us turning those tight games into wins. Too many draws will probably do our chances of 2nd.
I think we're starting to look better offensively now though. Having had Kodjia and Grealish out really cost us but it's looking better now Grealish has returned.
-
League positions are not necessarily a good guide.
Ipswich are 6 places below Sheffield Utd - but they have joint 5th best Home records - and we play them both away.
At present:-
Our Away schedule is 5th toughest - Cardiff's is the toughest
Our Home schedule is 4th toughest - Derby's is 3rd toughest
-
Maybe they have the 5th best home records because they've not played us and the like at home, and that they are where they are because they're not as good as us.
-
Maybe they have the 5th best home records because they've not played us and the like at home, and that they are where they are because they're not as good as us.
That's basically the point I was making earlier in reference to us. On paper our home record is pretty good but when you look at the teams we haven't played at home yet it's hard to argue that's it's going to improve as the season progresses whereas our away record looks like it could improve because it's mostly mid-table and lower sides we've got to play.
-
I disagree, as I think we've certainly improved and looked stronger. Certain individuals are consistently looking their worth in Snodgrass, quality players like Terry and Grealish are returning and non-contributors like Hogan have suddenly looked different prospects.
The change in shape and the extra dynamism that has given us and the extra quality returning gives us an argument to say we should be in a better position to win more at home. Bristol is a case in point; decent side, easily dispatched, whereas against Boro we laboured.
I think in Sheffield United's case, their momentum from an excellent season has run dry and ordinary players have reverted to an ordinary level of performance.
-
I disagree, as I think we've certainly improved and looked stronger. Certain individuals are consistently looking their worth in Snodgrass, quality players like Terry and Grealish are returning and non-contributors like Hogan have suddenly looked different prospects.
The change in shape and the extra dynamism that has given us and the extra quality returning gives us an argument to say we should be in a better position to win more at home. Bristol is a case in point; decent side, easily dispatched, whereas against Boro we laboured.
I think in Sheffield United's case, their momentum from an excellent season has run dry and ordinary players have reverted to an ordinary level of performance.
Although they will be up for it when we play there - especially if we are still in form.
One of the issues with us is that we Aston Villa and even though we are where we are we are always a big scalp.
I see opposing players arrive at pitch side and to many of them it is a "f*ckin ell" moment when they walk out on the pitch - especially so for night games
-
I don't see why they'd be more up for us than Sheffield Wednesday. They've one 1 in 10 now and we ought to be beating them.
Their other Yorkshire cousins first mind require dispatching.
-
Hookey - That moment is what we need to take advantage of better. The lower/mid table teams are almost certainly going to be players who can be overawed by the ground, but if we let them settle and start to enjoy it they can take a lift from it, we need to show them they're playing with the big boys from the very start, that's where we've fucked up in the last 18 months, we haven't drummed home that potential advantage.
Ads, I'm referring entirely to making predictions based on form tables. I agree that we look a much better side now than we did in August but I don't think the "all the big sides have to come to Villa park" argument really adds much because our home record so far doesn't suggest we're getting much of an advantage there, we lose less than we do away but we draw far too many.
-
If we have most of the top sides left to play at home then, by simple deduction we must've played an easier 'set' of home games than most other sides in the league. On that basis should we have expected more than 7 wins from 13? The flip side is that our away record, given who we've played, is very good and will hopefully improve but we definitely need to see improved home form at a time when we're playing better teams, if we want to get top 2.
One home defeat is good, though we could really have done with more than 7 wins and obviously fewer than 5 draws.
Oh I agree, that's the problem really, too many home draws against weaker sides who came for the draw and that we had no idea how to break down.
Which will ultimately decide our fate. Can't see us losing many but our lack of goals for stops us turning those tight games into wins. Too many draws will probably do our chances of 2nd.
I think we're starting to look better offensively now though. Having had Kodjia and Grealish out really cost us but it's looking better now Grealish has returned.
Kodjia especially. We did well considering Davis was our only striker for a while.
-
So Derby have drawn. I think mathematically promotion is now in our own hands?
-
Cracking result that.
Don't see Derby getting another 40 points on top of what they already have tbh.
LIke us they struggle to win home games when teams park the bus.
-
Derby were refreshingly woeful. Bristol even more so.
-
Derby were refreshingly woeful. Bristol even more so.
Exactly. 2nd place is there for the taking.
-
Derby were refreshingly woeful. Bristol even more so.
Exactly. 2nd place is there for the taking.
It's not possible, we've drawn too many games you know.
-
I only watched the last ten minutes
I thought both teams looked rubbish
It’s on
-
Bristol City are in short term promotion limbo with their league cup run. After beating manure, they went on a bad league run and they will, naturally, be thinking of the second leg against Man City.
Win it and their form could dip whilst waiting for the final. Lose it and there could be a hangover which could take them out the play offs. Marvellous stuff.
-
^^ of course, they could be galvanised by it, but I'm looking at it optimisticly for us.
-
I don't think it's short term limbo, I think their assault on promotion was what was short term. Same for Sheffield United.
Small squads will have an effect and I believe we're seeing that. They were refreshingly awful again last night, which is good news.
Let's hope Cardiff fit the same criteria. One win in five against the worst team in the league...hoping for a Wednesday win tonight.
-
The whole thing is quite open. I think the team who might go on a good run is Fulham. They've been a bit inconsistent up to now though.
-
The whole thing is quite open. I think the team who might go on a good run is Fulham. They've been a bit inconsistent up to now though.
Our game down there next month will be huge.
-
^^ of course, they could be galvanised by it, but I'm looking at it optimisticly for us.
Bristol City haven't won since Mid December have they? I think beating Man. United took a lot out of them so beating Man. City would have the same effect.
I think you have to look at other teams and think "do they have another 40 points left in them this season?"
If people are saying we need 90 + points to finish second one of Derby, Bristol or Cardiff is going to have to go on a mass winning run in the next four months.
Cardiff and Bristol have hardly won a game between them last six weeks and Derby look to me a team that will draw a few between now and the end of the season.
Cautiously optimistic again.
-
If Bristol were awful to get a point at Pride Park than what does that make us when we lost 2-0 there barely a month ago? Being cocky comes back to bite us in the arse like if we fail to win today.
-
And we put 5 past Bristol 2 weeks ago
-
watch out for fulham, 6-0
-
Well then.
I can see 7 points from our next three.
Wonder if that will be enough to be above Derby and Cardiff.
-
I don't think 90 will be needed this year. The high points tend to be when teams run away with it. With it being so close and teams taking points off each other I think high 80s is more realistic. Fulham do look like dark horses but let's not forget it was Burton they were playing. I'd expect us to get at least 4 when we meet them in a few weeks.
It's in our hands. A good result at Sheffield and the home games ought to bear fruit should see us going to Fulham in good shape. You'd take a draw there on the back of a decent points haul in the meantime.
-
18 games to go and along with Fulham we have the best momentum amongst this sides in the 6 places after Wolves. If we are able to strengthen even through loans it’s not a position that too many of those sides can compete with. Our squad depth, talent and experience on the pitch and off it should see us get that second spot.
-
It's in our hands. We can't ask for more than that.
We are 3 points from the automatic promotion places and gained 3 points on Wolves too.
-
Cardiff are in the bag and we are now gunning for Derby County. I bet they are nervous.
-
Fulham and Boro have momentum too - i expect them to overtake Bristol and Sheffield
Our fixtures at the back end are quite tough so we need to reallly rack up the points at the moment
Gonna be exciting!
-
Interesting that Wolves have also played Barnsley and Notts Forest in their past two games and only got one point.
-
Interesting that Wolves have also played Barnsley and Notts Forest in their past two games and only got one point.
Also that commentators have observed that Wolves have been sluggish and below par for the last two games.
-
Cardiff are in the bag and we are now gunning for Derby County. I bet they are nervous.
Wasn't it just before xmas that Cardiff were 8 or 9 points clear of us with plenty of winnable games to come.
Shows what can happen in this division when you put a run of wins together. We've pretty much caught them up now.
-
We're on our way! We're on way!
-
Fulham and Boro have momentum too - i expect them to overtake Bristol and Sheffield
Our fixtures at the back end are quite tough so we need to reallly rack up the points at the moment
Gonna be exciting!
Agreed Re Fulham and Boro can see them both coming on strong now .Hogan getting his scoring boots on could be the big difference for us now. Vydrya is on about 15 goals at Derby which has shot them up to 2nd if Hogan can continue his current run and get in double figures that will help us
-
When we went up in 87-88 wasn’t it pretty much nip and tuck for 2nd all season with Millwall going up reasonably comfortably or am I misremembering?
-
Interesting that Wolves have also played Barnsley and Notts Forest in their past two games and only got one point.
another two weekends like that and the picture starts to look very different.....come on you Lions!
-
When we went up in 87-88 wasn’t it pretty much nip and tuck for 2nd all season with Millwall going up reasonably comfortably or am I misremembering?
Wasn't it Blackburn that went up?
-
When we went up in 87-88 wasn’t it pretty much nip and tuck for 2nd all season with Millwall going up reasonably comfortably or am I misremembering?
Wasn't it Blackburn that went up?
Nope Millwall champions, us in second and Boro in the play offs.
-
We went up on goal difference or something. It was very tight.
-
We went up on goal difference or something. It was very tight.
Goals scored, so even tighter.
-
Important we take 7 points from the next 3.
I think Sheffield United playing on Saturday in the FA Cup while we have a rest for 12 days will benefit us, but a point would be ok. I'd be surprised if Derby beat Millwall away.
Then Burton and Small Heath. Take 7 points and it's 19 out of 21 and puts us on 57 after 31 and only 4 off that 2 points per game average.
-
We went up on goal difference or something. It was very tight.
Goals scored, so even tighter.
There was a good few goals scored between 4.30 and 4.45 on the final day tjat swung things our wayy
-
Results did not go well today, Fulham on a roll.
-
It’s a bloody mad league. It’s like what the old Division 1 was like when I was a kid.
-
Fucking Barnsley, pointless sending off and then they knackered themselves in the end. Fulham might go above us after we play them in a few weeks.
-
Don't talk soft.
Pity Wolves won, but I wouldn't be surprised to be 2nd come close of play Tuesday.
-
Fucking Barnsley, pointless sending off and then they knackered themselves in the end. Fulham might go above us after we play them in a few weeks.
Blimey. Or nothing will have changed from last week if we win on Tuesday and then head into two home games vs teams in the bottom 3.
-
Fucking Barnsley, pointless sending off and then they knackered themselves in the end. Fulham might go above us after we play them in a few weeks.
Blimey. Or nothing will have changed from last week if we win on Tuesday and then head into two home games vs teams in the bottom 3.
True, but the results today were still shitty. I just hope we go for it and make sure we don’t slip up on Tuesday. It’s a massive game.
-
Fucking Barnsley, pointless sending off and then they knackered themselves in the end. Fulham might go above us after we play them in a few weeks.
Worth remembering that if people really believe you need 90 points for second Fulham will need to win 14 of their final 17 games.
Less of course and that benefits us (and Derby).
-
They've just got more momentum even than us and we always seem to do crap at Craven Cottage. But it's true, I should be more confident in my team. I just can't trust them after the past decade :(
-
They've just got more momentum even than us and we always seem to do crap at Craven Cottage. But it's true, I should be more confident in my team. I just can't trust them after the past decade :(
It looks likely Cairney will go to West Ham, that will be a big blow.
-
They've taken 2 points more than us over the past 6 games.
In the past 6 home games they've won 5 and drawn 1, scored 15 and conceded 3.
We've won 4, drawn 2, scored 14 and conceded 4.
Away from home over the past 6 games we've both won 3, drawn 1 and lost 2. They've scored 11 and conceded 9. We've scored 6 and conceded 6.
To suggest they've got more momentum is stretching it. Let's see how they cope with quick fire games and losing their best players.
-
Fulham lost to Sunderland a month ago.
Imagine the reaction on here if we did that.
-
And?
We lost to Brentford and Derby in quick succession and gave up a two goal lead against Shef Utd about a month ago and that was not acceptable. I think our expectation is more than your average Fulham fan's , quite rightly.
-
Fucking Barnsley, pointless sending off and then they knackered themselves in the end. Fulham might go above us after we play them in a few weeks.
No chance eamonn specially as I will be there defending our goal.
-
And?
We lost to Brentford and Derby in quick succession and gave up a two goal lead against Shef Utd about a month ago and that was not acceptable. I think our expectation is more than your average Fulham fan's , quite rightly.
Those teams are in the top 10.
Sunderland are Sunderland. Fulham also drew to Hull over xmas, another team in terrible form.
They're not that good. Just started regularly winning at home which gives them a chance of play offs.
-
One thing is for sure, we are going to have another blip before the end of the season. So will the majority of our competitors. I think with our squad we will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, whatever the result on Tuesday. But there's going to be ups and downs on the way, we just need to hold our nerve.
-
1 point difference now. I listened to the last 20 minutes of Derby's match and they thought Derby were really poor and didn't deserve to win.
Think we'll look back at this night as the tipping point in May.
-
our next 4 :
burton h
sha h
fulham a
preston h
derby next 4 :
brentford h
norwich h
leeds h
reading a
we may have to be patient to get into 2nd .. their games are possibly easier than ours
-
No way is Derby winning all four of those.
Can see Brentford getting a point. Norwich are a funny team aswell, some to win a fair few away.
-
F¤%k Derby, who have Wolves got? ;)
-
Three home games and Preston about to lose their main striker. I'm only concerned with the Fulham match. Last season we looked atrocious but I feel we could be a slightly different proposition this time out.
-
Astonishing to see where Sunderland and Hull are, that could easily have been us last season
-
Astonishing to see where Sunderland and Hull are, that could easily have been us last season
The 11 Sunderland put out at SHA tonight was frighteningly bad. Unless they sign some good players in next 24 hours they are going down.
-
Astonishing to see where Sunderland and Hull are, that could easily have been us last season
The 11 Sunderland put out at SHA tonight was frighteningly bad. Unless they sign some good players in next 24 hours they are going down.
Players won't make a difference at this point. The whole place stinks of death just like we did in the year we went. They just haven't changed the environment at the club, and Coleman has made no difference at all. They're in complete freefall now. Morale gone completely.
-
Our crap december mught come back to trip us up.
-
Our crap december mught come back to trip us up.
why? That's long gone now.
-
F¤%k Derby, who have Wolves got? ;)
:)
-
Let's hope everyone gets down to VP on Saturday, we need big crowds for every game on the run in now. None of this 31k bollocks.
-
Let's hope everyone gets down to VP on Saturday, we need big crowds for every game on the run in now. None of this 31k bollocks.
got my ticket!
-
Our crap december mught come back to trip us up.
Only if we have another bad run. the odd draw or defeat is pretty much to be expected but what we can't afford is a run of 4-5 without a win, if that happens again we're in the playoffs.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DU0olavXUAAhKQ_.jpg:large)
-
Only three sides have scored more. Impressive considering our problems up front. Its nice we can spread the goals around. I don't think Albert has scored since before Christmas.
-
I think green deserves some game time as Albert has been a touch off the boil of late
-
Green seems to have disappeared since the cup game.
Is he injured again as our bench isn't exactly overflowing with forward options.
-
Green seems to have disappeared since the cup game.
Is he injured again as our bench isn't exactly overflowing with forward options.
Played this week for the U23’s
-
I think green deserves some game time as Albert has been a touch off the boil of late
Yes, not sure having both Jedinak and Whelan on the bench makes much sense. Can’t really see Bruce dropping them though.
-
I'd like to see RHM getting on the bench soon, 3 in 2 for the U23s and looked busy in the couple of subs appearances a few weeks back. I really like Davis but if you're wanting a goal from the bench RHM looks a much better bet for it.
-
No reason he couldn't have been on the bench tonight, four defensive minded outfield players on it.
Get the feeling it was a sort of message to the board you see managers do when they want a new signing in.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DU0olavXUAAhKQ_.jpg:large)
That’s lovely - seeing a league table with Villa near the top of it . On for 84 points at current rate, will that be enough for top 2 ?
-
No reason he couldn't have been on the bench tonight, four defensive minded outfield players on it.
Get the feeling it was a sort of message to the board you see managers do when they want a new signing in.
Maybe it was simply down to him playing yesterday that he wasn’t available.
-
There's panic on the forums of Derbyshire.
-
7 points ahead o' t'Blades now when it could easily have been 1. Magic.
-
Be nice if Brentford could temporarily turn into the West London Brazil they always play like when we are up against them.
-
If they score first it will be interesting as Derby have had three games out the last six where they've failed to score.
-
Derby will draw loads of games in the run in.
If they keep dropping points that obviously means what you need for second is reduced.
I think ten more wins will do it for us. Very realistic when you look at what we have left.
-
Fifty one points to play for, and Wolves are 12 points ahead. There is still much to play for.
-
I think 11 wins to be sure.
-
Thank you Bolton.
-
Oh Brizzle. What a cracking result - screwing the Blues whilst helping us.
-
Derby will draw loads of games in the run in.
If they keep dropping points that obviously means what you need for second is reduced.
I think ten more wins will do it for us. Very realistic when you look at what we have left.
Agreed. I was making that point earlier. It was never about what we needed by way of points per game. It’s what happens in totality with us getting points and others dropping them. We have tremendous momentum and confidence and you can see it starting to slip elsewhere like Derby and Bristol City. Cardiff with their game in hand and a very experienced manager concern me a bit but over the course of the remainder of the season we’ll see them off too.
I think in the end with our resources and experience we’ll finish 4 or 5 points ahead of 3rd but fall about the same in points (maybe 6 or 7 points) shy of Wolves.
-
This division is crazy and there is no way of knowing who will bet who. I am worried about tomorrow, Fulham to me are a big danger if it gets to play offs. Derby our big danger, but have they got a better team/squad than us?
-
This division is crazy and there is no way of knowing who will bet who. I am worried about tomorrow, Fulham to me are a big danger if it gets to play offs. Derby our big danger, but have they got a better team/squad than us?
No
.........(Friday night bravado)
-
This division is crazy and there is no way of knowing who will bet who. I am worried about tomorrow, Fulham to me are a big danger if it gets to play offs. Derby our big danger, but have they got a better team/squad than us?
No
.........(Friday night bravado)
Totally agree. I am not the biggest Bruce fan but think he has instilled a massive attitude in the squad, with lots of help from Terry and the likes of Snodgrass and Chester. I think I read Derby are -5 in goal difference, is that correct or is it my little alcohol kicking in?
-
There’s one automatic place to play for and at least four teams in with a shout
So you’d have to say it’s still probably more likely we’re in the play offs. But I’d currently make us favourites for second
-
I also think Fulham will be the main threat for 2nd. Derby will implode like they do every season. I can see Fulham giving Forest a bit of a tanking today.
-
That Fulham game in a couple of weeks is massive
After that Fulham play Bristol, Wolves, Derby, sheff United and Preston in a row though.
-
No way are Fulham winning all those games.
They're a good team but too much to do to get second imo.
-
Cardiff ‘s game in hand is a worry. Win that and they are back above us.
-
Cardiff ‘s game in hand is a worry. Win that and they are back above us.
Cardiff's fixture in March and April
Derby-Cardiff
Cardiff-Burton
Sheffield United-Cardiff
Cardiff-Wolves
Villa-Cardiff
Norwich-Cardiff
Today they're at Leeds and next week go to Millwall.
They blew their chance over xmas. Even an o.k run and they'd be comfortably clear in second even with our great run.
-
I personally think that Fulham are the biggest threat. They are a very good side and it was disappointing to see them keep hold of all their players in January. If we can keep this 5 point gap between us and them until after we've played them, I'll be delighted.
Derby have got into second place with no real pressure on them. It's easy to go to places like Blues and win 3-0 when you have a 6 point cushion. let's see how free scoring they are now there's only a 1 point cushion.
-
well they looked pretty comfortable today
-
Against utter shite that hasn't scored since Boxing Day.
-
And Brentford down to 10 at 20 minutes.
-
I personally think that Fulham are the biggest threat. They are a very good side and it was disappointing to see them keep hold of all their players in January. If we can keep this 5 point gap between us and them until after we've played them, I'll be delighted.
Derby have got into second place with no real pressure on them. It's easy to go to places like Blues and win 3-0 when you have a 6 point cushion. let's see how free scoring they are now there's only a 1 point cushion.
Welcome to the site Brassneck.
Ye I agree about Fulham. After beating Blues next week I will be happy with a draw at Fulham. That will keep them at an arms length.
-
There is a case to made for all of 2-5 at the moment for different reasons. Derby have the brightest manager/coach and score more which is why I'd favour them currently.
I think Brizzle have blown their stack and ane will fight it out with half a dozen others for top 6
-
The various current form tables HERE (http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2) are quite interesting to look at.
-
Very interesting, thanks PWS. In my view that shows that whatever frustrations he sometimes brings, you have to hand it to Steve Bruce, his way is working in the short and medium term. For me it also says that Real Wolverhamton aside, Fulham and Derby (in that order) are the ones to worry about. That, and the change in our fortunes when John Terry came back from injury is so noticeable.
-
Next week is far from a formality with them third in the form table - it's a huge game as is our trip to Real Fulham.
-
I just found an interesting post on the Fulham message board. We need to target 11 wins to be sure I reckon.
Link (http://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=61456.100)
-
We need 10 more wins. They need 12 from their last 16. That's a massive ask.
-
It would seem they're as worried about us as we are about them!
Personally speaking my biggest concern is our next blip and how serious it is. Another run of 5 without a win and automatic has gone I think. We will drop points, we will lose games but so will everyone else and as long as they are isolated occurrences we will be OK. Of course if we happen to go all Man City and win the last 16 i'll take it!
-
At this stage you have to follow any defeat with a win and then follow it up with 2 or 3 more. We can not afford anymore 4-5 game streaks without wins.
-
I think whilst the results didn't go our way yesterday, it is realistic that only one of the top six will lose each week. This week it was Bristol.
I'd imagine we'll pick up three points against Birmingham and then lose away at Fulham. Something's got to give - we won't carry on winning every game until the end of the season. Looking at it now, it seems it is between us, Cardiff, Fulham and Derby. I've been fairly dismissive of Cardiff until now, but they keep getting results.
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
-
One thing we have proved now is that we can grind out good wins like at Middlesbrough and Sheffield united, I'm not too sure that Fulham and Derby have that in them in a tough game against a rival
-
6000 Villa being down there and us being chock full of confidence will help.
-
To say nothing of the boost for the bistros, wine bars, vegan dinettes and sushi purveyors.
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
We won't keep winning forever, we're due to draw at least a game and I would be very surprised if we won our next two.
Could well be two draws for our next two.
Look at what we have after that though...
Sheff Weds away- We should be winning that with the way they defended yesterday. They have a million injuries and real lack of confidence at the club.
QPR home- Always a team I expect to beat at home regardless of form.
Sunderland away- If we can't beat them....
Wolves home- Tough one. Will show us maybe how much we'd need to step up for next year given Wolves have premier league quality in their 11. Would take a point.
Bolton away- Bolton seem to have a knack of beating teams in the top 6 but again a game I'd expect 3 points from.
Hull away- Having a similar demise to Sunderland. We always had a good record against them in the prem.
Reading home- Would expect three points from this aswell.
That would take us up to April 2nd.
I'd say if we're not second by then we probably won't do it given our final 6 games. Given I think we can win most of those I'd like to think we'll be second and have a decent cushion over third as Derby-Cardiff play us in March and Cardiff have a very tough spell of games in that period.
-
Those tables on the Fulham forum are just...beautiful. PromotionalExcel porn.
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
I'll have some of what you are smoking or drinking !
Or take an optimism pill
Live on TV at midday against an "in form" Small Heath what could ever go wrong?l
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
I'll have some of what you are smoking or drinking !
Or take an optimism pill
Live on TV at midday against an "in form" Small Heath what could ever go wrong?l
We’ve just won 6 on the spin so it’s no wonder he’s optimistic!
-
by the law of averages we won't keep on winning...
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
I'll have some of what you are smoking or drinking !
Or take an optimism pill
Live on TV at midday against an "in form" Small Heath what could ever go wrong?l
Beating a relegation battler and somebody below us in the league isn't exactly wild is It?
The Noses are shite and there isn't a side in the country as in form as us.
If we don't beat them at home it would be hugely disappointing.
We win when we're on the box all the while. Like our last two away games for example, so I'm not sure what that's got to do with it. In fact we win more often than we don't regardless of being live.
-
Ivan Gaskell or some other eejit said on BBC yesterday, whilst reporting from Fulham's game "Make no mistake about it, Fulham are THE form team in the Championship".
I admit I was a bit scared of Fulham's form lately but not anymore, I mean they live in a little cottage, how tough can they be?
-
With John Terry playing I am more positive about our mental strength going into this fixture than I have been in the past.
-
fulham forums seem to think they are nailed on for 2nd - let's prove them wrong.
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
I think we will beat Blues and stop Fulham winning.
-
by the law of averages we won't keep on winning...
That applies to average teams not Steve Bruce's Claret n Blue Army.
(thinks: What am I saying?)
-
fulham forums seem to think they are nailed on for 2nd - let's prove them wrong.
The thing is, we've both won lots of games in a row, but they're still 6 points behind us, so have quite a bit less margin for error than us, and we haven't got much.
-
Win Sunday, draw at Fulham, that’s ok
-
I think we will beat the Noses and Fulham.
I'll have some of what you are smoking or drinking !
Or take an optimism pill
Live on TV at midday against an "in form" Small Heath what could ever go wrong?l
Beating a relegation battler and somebody below us in the league isn't exactly wild is It?
The Noses are shite and there isn't a side in the country as in form as us.
If we don't beat them at home it would be hugely disappointing.
We win when we're on the box all the while. Like our last two away games for example, so I'm not sure what that's got to do with it. In fact we win more often than we don't regardless of being live.
It's a derby so form can easily goes out the window - I think calling Small Heath "Shite" is a touch arrogant- their recent results tell a different story- we shall see
I think it will be a very tense game with a draw being the most likely outcome -
-
Why?
They're 19th and have scored 22 goals in 30 games, conceding over 40.
I'm not sure why our form goes out the window but theirs doesn't? They beat a pub team in Sunderland and a Wednesday side who haven't scored a league goal since Boxing Day, who also had 9 men. For a reminder, we've just won 6 on the bounce and sit 3rd, having scored more than double what they have.
I'll have some of what you're smoking if you want me to be worried about that shite from B9.
-
Why?
They're 19th and have scored 22 goals in 30 games, conceding over 40.
I'm not sure why our form goes out the window but theirs doesn't? They beat a pub team in Sunderland and a Wednesday side who haven't scored a league goal since Boxing Day, who also had 9 men.
I'll have some of what you're smoking if you want me to be worried about that shite from B9.
I’ll have some of whatever anyone is smoking regardless of the dogs hit.
Ta.
-
Why?
They're 19th and have scored 22 goals in 30 games, conceding over 40.
I'm not sure why our form goes out the window but theirs doesn't? They beat a pub team in Sunderland and a Wednesday side who haven't scored a league goal since Boxing Day, who also had 9 men. For a reminder, we've just won 6 on the bounce and sit 3rd, having scored more than double what they have.
I'll have some of what you're smoking if you want me to be worried about that shite from B9.
That will be the same Sheffield Wednesday who won at B6 and the pub team we "smashed " 2-1
Dare me to have the temerity to doubt your optimism :)
Enjoy the rest of your weekend - I'm off for a brandy and spliff
-
I'm just curious why you were coming at me with patronising garbage implying you'd have to be high for the form team in the country to win their next two games.
Seems to me it's because our form doesn't matter but their inferior form does. Just odd.
Be as negative as you like, it's only been 28 years afterall.
-
We might well draw vs Birmingham because games aren’t played on paper. But simply based on our form vs theirs, quality of our players vs theirs, being at Villa Park, we should win. That’s not really a stretch and we should very confident going into the game.
-
I'm just curious why you were coming at me with patronising garbage implying you'd have to be high for the form team in the country to win their next two games.
Seems to me it's because our form doesn't matter but their inferior form does. Just odd.
Be as negative as you like, it's only been 28 years afterall.
I may be negative and like a moan ( I am a Brummie after all) but despite all I like to think I have kept my sense of humour - "patronising garbage" eh ? As ever you appear to be angling for a spat online .......my post was light hearted - you for some reason didn't see it that way :(
-
Fuck the Rags, they're going to get it next Sunday.
-
I'm just curious why you were coming at me with patronising garbage implying you'd have to be high for the form team in the country to win their next two games.
Seems to me it's because our form doesn't matter but their inferior form does. Just odd.
Be as negative as you like, it's only been 28 years afterall.
I may be negative and like a moan ( I am a Brummie after all) but despite all I like to think I have kept my sense of humour - "patronising garbage" eh ? As ever you appear to be angling for a spat online .......my post was light hearted - you for some reason didn't see it that way :(
If it's light hearted fair enough. You're still wrong loike...
-
I'm just curious why you were coming at me with patronising garbage implying you'd have to be high for the form team in the country to win their next two games.
Seems to me it's because our form doesn't matter but their inferior form does. Just odd.
Be as negative as you like, it's only been 28 years afterall.
I may be negative and like a moan ( I am a Brummie after all) but despite all I like to think I have kept my sense of humour - "patronising garbage" eh ? As ever you appear to be angling for a spat online .......my post was light hearted - you for some reason didn't see it that way :(
If it's light hearted fair enough. You're still wrong loike...
Ha ha - only a week to ponder over what is the most nerve wracking fixture of the season ......I hate the game
I still have bad memories of the time they had the Indian sign over us and won a fair few on the bounce ( was it six or seven?)
Some knuckledragger spray painted a wall near Selly Oak Station which read "seven in a row hah ha" (or suchlike)
It haunted me daily on my train journey to Five Ways - let's not forget it's their cup final and they will be up for it - we may have better quality players but we need to match their passion and spirit - what the odds on Flabby playing and scoring ?
-
It's nearly 13 years and 11 fixtures without a loss for us in the derby. Form does go out of the window a bit but historically, at least recently, they only beat us when we have a shit team. We have a better side then they do, we're at home, they're poor, home win 1-0.
-
Personally, I'm not counting any chickens next Sunday. I agree with others that the derby usually tends to be a great leveler. Obviously I'm going into it with optimism but I'm still a bit worried if I'm honest. All good runs have to give sooner or later and we have a 6 game winning run as well as an 11 game unbeaten run (against them). You also have to factor in that when you talk about teams treating games at VP like cup finals, none do so more than this lot - They consistently raise their game, keep it tight and generally make it hard for us. 4 points from the next two games would be fantastic and is what I'm hoping for. I don't care which way round the win and the draw come. I admire Ads optimism and if we do get 6 points from the next 2 games, I'll be first in line to buy him a pint.
Whatever happens in the next 2 games, we have a great opportunity to win the following 4 on the bounce. By the time we play Wolves in March, it could well be first v second
Going back to the promotion maths, I'm not convinced that 90 points will be required for second spot. If we average 2 points a game in the final 16, we'll end with 88 points. With some of the fixtures Derby, Cardiff and Fulham have, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect them to hit slightly under 2 points a game.
-
Aside from the famous 5-1 all games against them have been draws or 1-0s haven't they since we started dominating this fixture from 2005.
Under MON we won three of the games by a one goal margin and all those were late winners and then we start drawing and then losing that awful cup game when we appointed poor managers.
They've improved a lot last 6 weeks so I can see it being tight and them nicking a goal at some stage.
If it's a draw so be it, I couldn't care less if we go up even if a point that keeps them up.
-
The Cahill game was 3-1
-
Doesn’t about 70 points usually get you a 6th place finish?
If so we’d need 14 points from 16 games to secure a place in the playoffs.
-
Why?
They're 19th and have scored 22 goals in 30 games, conceding over 40.
I'm not sure why our form goes out the window but theirs doesn't? They beat a pub team in Sunderland and a Wednesday side who haven't scored a league goal since Boxing Day, who also had 9 men. For a reminder, we've just won 6 on the bounce and sit 3rd, having scored more than double what they have.
I'll have some of what you're smoking if you want me to be worried about that shite from B9.
That will be the same Sheffield Wednesday who won at B6 and the pub team we "smashed " 2-1
Dare me to have the temerity to doubt your optimism :)
Enjoy the rest of your weekend - I'm off for a brandy and spliff
You mean three fabulously crafted goals at Sheff Wed ? Oops I mean three gifted goals .I don’t underestimate Small Heath but would expect our in form team + 40,000 supporters to see us over the line .
-
Blues have their cup replay Tuesday evening too. Hopefully a few knocks and a red or two would be lovely!
Roll on Sunday
-
The Cahill game was 3-1
And the Agent Ridgewell one was 1-2
-
Doesn’t about 70 points usually get you a 6th place finish?
If so we’d need 14 points from 16 games to secure a place in the playoffs.
70 points has been enough 3 times in the championship and it was as high as 80 last year. This season I suspect 75-76 will be the playoffs and 86-87 will be 2nd. There seems to be a lot more teams in the chase for the playoffs and more in the relegation battle than you'd normally see by this time of the season which may drag those targets even lower but I suspect they're about right.
-
As I look at that table, I find it very difficult to envisage any of the top 5 not being there at the end of the season. Only Bristol City in 6th need look over their shoulders. The other 5 are in a straight battle for automatic, or more realistically, 2nd to 5th are in a straight battle for the runners up spot.
At this point, I'll be disappointed if we fail to reach second place - We have as good a chance as any of our rivals, probably slightly better given our squad, slightly easier run of fixtures and 5 point lead over Fulham. Of course, it's possible that Fulham will be above us by the time we walk off the pitch at Craven Cottage in a fortnight.
I know it's ifs, buts and maybes but that shot that hit Hogan, on the line against Brentford (or was it Middlesbrough?) at home haunts me. I'd hate to finish 3rd by 2 points due to that freak clearance.
-
Blues have their cup replay Tuesday evening too. Hopefully a few knocks and a red or two would be lovely!
Roll on Sunday
Their cup opponents will be quite reassured as they know that the Rags will have both eyes on their cup final.
-
Blues have their cup replay Tuesday evening too. Hopefully a few knocks and a red or two would be lovely!
Roll on Sunday
Their cup opponents will be quite reassured as they know that the Rags will have both eyes on their cup final.
Ha, absolutely! They will be just as happy if one of their thugs puts their studs through Jacks knee to ruin our season.
-
Thank you Mr Stroud. That was a top refereeing performance.
-
Just need Norwich to have their 1 game in 6 tomorrow.
-
Guaranteed to be either 2nd or 3rd after this weekend’s games now.
-
Don't think Norwich will do us any favours today but I have a suspicion that Bolton might.
-
Guaranteed to be either 2nd or 3rd after this weekend’s games now.
Bit premature to say that methinks
-
Guaranteed to be either 2nd or 3rd after this weekend’s games now.
Bit premature to say that methinks
No, just basic arithmetic.
-
I think Pete may have interpreted the post a bit differently...
-
I think Pete may have interpreted the post a bit differently...
Or possibly not be aware that Cardiff played last night?
Norwich are in good form having won 4 out of their last 5. A point at Derby would be a good result (for them as well as us). Bolton have become resilient but have lost their main striker to Cardiff. Again, a draw would be a good result for both Bolton and ourselves.
-
None of the chasing pack have won.
Points needed to secure second decreases every time that happens.
Could be low 80s now.
-
Results went our way, it’s up to us tomorrow.
-
Beat Small Heath and go second. It''s quite exciting really.
-
You won't need 90 points to secure second, I can assure people of that.
For Derby to get past 90 points they need to win 10 of their last 15 games, Cardiff 12 of their last 16, Fulham 13 of their last 15.#
Bristol City are a non factor for automatic promotion now.
-
The story and figures for automatic promotion are here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36906402
-
The average to secure 2nd spot in recent years has been 86 points. So we would need 30 more for that or 10 wins from 16 games.
-
You won't need 90 points to secure second, I can assure people of that.
For Derby to get past 90 points they need to win 10 of their last 15 games, Cardiff 12 of their last 16, Fulham 13 of their last 15.#
Bristol City are a non factor for automatic promotion now.
Yes I agree - it's worked out an average of more than 2 points a game for some time now. I think it will be a fairly low total this year with so many proverbial "6 pointers". By the same token, Wolves only need 6 wins to take them to 89 points so any lingering hopes of catching them should be let go now. They will go up as champions and the rest of us are scrapping for second.
-
The average to secure 2nd spot in recent years has been 86 points. So we would need 30 more for that or 10 wins from 16 games.
Cardiff and Derby will draw plenty more games in the run in, have you seen Cardiff's run around March and April?
To me this year there isn't a stand out second team in the league. Exciting thing is since xmas we are probably that team who come on strong now and time our run right.
-
Today has proved again that whatever the average has been in the past or whatever the approximate games for promotion might be hypothetically, everything goes out the window when teams go on win streaks like us, or blow leads like we’ve seen this afternoon. All of those sides will be gutted and that will affect confidence and morale.
-
Guaranteed to be either 2nd or 3rd after this weekend’s games now.
Bit premature to say that methinks
No, just basic arithmetic.
Ahh, I thought he meant final position.
-
Nice set of results. Will make it easier to take when we all get up early for tomorrow's drab and shite nil-all.
-
I suppose I could look it up myself, but, well, ya know, satdy innit.
When people are stating average points for second in past years, is that the number of points actually gained by the team finishing second, or how many's been required to have just one more than the side finishing third?
-
I suppose I could look it up myself, but, well, ya know, satdy innit.
When people are stating average points for second in past years, is that the number of points actually gained by the team finishing second, or how many's been required to have just one more than the side finishing third?
To a certain extent, it is irrelevant. We need what we need and the only nailed on fact is that we need more than the team who finishes 3rd.
We are in the mix and as SB has continually stated, we need to be there when there are 6 odd games to go.
This season is different to last (and to many recent seasons) in that there is one runaway team and then 4 more teams scrapping for second. This will mean that ultimately, second place will require a lower points total.
I think we have a fairly difficult run in and ideally it would be nice to build a cushion over the next 4 games. I dread the final 2 games and hope against hope that we'll have it sewn up before then. As long as we remain within touching distance, the final points total doesn't matter.
-
Nice set of results. Will make it easier to take when we all get up early for tomorrow's drab and shite nil-all.
Getting up at 4am, to get to the airport for a 6.30 flight. I am hoping 3 points and therefore being in the automatic promotion place will make the early morning easier.
-
Ryanair Dub to Brum, has to be done.
-
QPR, useless bastards. I still want 1st.
-
Me too. We keep our run going, they slip up, lose at our place, that gap can close very quickly.
Believe!
-
I tip my hat (or consider calling 999) for those brave (or otherwise) to think we still have a chance of catching Wolves.
It ain't happening.
Wolves could easily win another 10 games this season and pass 100 points. Newcastle did and I think this Wolves team is better.
-
We’ve got a tough run of fixtures at the end. Good to have our rivals at home rather than away. But equally it’d be nice to have some highly winnable games against mid table sides as the season winds down
We need to keep our good run going over the next half dozen games so that we can afford a couple of slip ups
-
Our rivals have a tough run of fixtures. None of those teams will want to come to Villa Park needing a result.
-
Have to say after the first few minutes today I was getting stressed with Derby, Bristol City and Fulham winning. Great set of results, but only if we beat the club with not many fans tomorrow
-
Personally, I can't wait for April. If we're going straight up, we're going to have earn it. And when we do it's going to be, as the kids probably say, epic.
-
7 more wins needed I reckon after this weekend.
15 games left so less than 50% win ratio.
-
Whoever would have thought after the Brentford game that we'd win the next 7 and be 2nd. It's ace.
-
Whoever would have thought after the Brentford game that we'd win the next 7 and be 2nd. It's ace.
I'm sure I said it.
-
I did not say that but I said after the Sheffield United draw I think it was that we would be five points off autos on New Year's Day and then it's game on.
I didn't think we were playing badly or being outplayed at all.
Still a long way to go, but the team is doing very well and should be pleased with themselves.
-
2 of our next 3 away from home with a tricky one coming up vs Fulham next. I watched their highlights yesterday and they didn't look that special and Bolton could have won it. But at home they are a better side so it won't be easy at all.
-
7 more wins needed I reckon after this weekend.
15 games left so less than 50% win ratio.
I think that will be completely wrong, it’s far too close at the top. Anyway we’re clearly going to win all of our remaining games.
-
7 more wins needed I reckon after this weekend.
15 games left so less than 50% win ratio.
I think that will be completely wrong, it’s far too close at the top. Anyway we’re clearly going to win all of our remaining games.
I've got us to win 7 and draw 6 of our last 15. 86 points.
I reckon 85 will be enough for second. Think Derby and Cardiff will draw loads in the run in. Fulham are too far back.
-
So 9 wins as you think we'll need 27 points? :P
-
Whoever would have thought after the Brentford game that we'd win the next 7 and be 2nd. It's ace.
I bet Ads did!! ;)
-
So 9 wins as you think we'll need 27 points? :P
We'll still draw a few I reckon as we won't keep winning forever nice as it would be.
Let's say a good point at Fulham, PNE to draw at VP, draw with Wolves. Draw at Bolton, draw at Ipswich and a point at home to Derby to secure promotion.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVwn0OuW4AA8kTR.jpg:large)
-
We can catch Wolves imo.
-
Stuff Wolves, its automatic promotion which should be the focus. I'd take a draw next week if offered.
Also dont want to need to do to the Den last day needing anything, they are strong at home and love causing an upset.
-
Much as I would like a trophy to show for our efforts, the only thing that matters is promotion. Whatever else we can do is just a bonus.
-
You get a trophy for finishing second now.
-
You get a trophy for winning the play-off final. I don't think my heart would stand the strain to get hold of that one.
-
Ryanair Dub to Brum, has to be done.
I'm over for QPR and Leeds, here's hoping we're still in 2nd at that point!
-
Trophy for winning the Championship will do nicely.
-
-
Trophy for winning the Championship will do nicely.
It's the proper trophy too.
-
I keep thinking this winning streak can’t keep going but I’ve just been reading the odd man out book about Ron Saunders. In his first year which brought promotion our last eighteen game run was won 15, drawn 2 and lost 1. Wouldn’t that be nice this season!
-
I think the best way to guarantee promotion is for Bruce to tell the team to focus on winning the championship. Look up not down and all that.
-
I think the best way to guarantee promotion is for Bruce to tell the team to focus on winning the championship. Look up not down and all that.
at 7 straight wins and counting I think he's doing just that.
-
Ryanair Dub to Brum, has to be done.
I'm over for QPR and Leeds, here's hoping we're still in 2nd at that point!
Mate we are unlikely to be first at that point as that will take a few more games.
-
Straight 8 in a row is my best lifetime experience with the Villa however as Fulham are below us I will be happy with a draw there.
-
Really looking forward to Fulham game now, will be tough but honestly think we can win there
-
After the Brentford defeat I predicted we would be about 9th by February ;D What a pillock
-
We could look back in 5 years and that 48 hours of nicking a 1-0 at Boro and then smashing Bristol was two of our most important results in recent history.
Certainly a switch has been flicked on and we've looked a proper team these last six weeks.
-
The Boro game might well turn out to be for Bruce what that game against Derby was for SGT Mark 1.
-
We could look back in 5 years and that 48 hours of nicking a 1-0 at Boro and then smashing Bristol was two of our most important results in recent history.
Certainly a switch has been flicked on and we've looked a proper team these last six weeks.
Absolutely this. We looked in a complete mess in December, Adomah had gone off the boil, Hogan looked like the latest in a long line of expensive mistakes and Snodgrass looked like he'd had enough and Grealish was fit but couldn't get gametime at 10 ahead of Onomah. The turn around from that to now is huge. whoever is at the heart of it doesn't really matter, I'm glad it's happened and so long as we're learning from this and we stick to playing to our strengths then everyone at the club (bar a few notable exceptions) should be proud of it and safe in their position.
-
The momentum is with us, you can see the team spirit is there.
Fair play to Bruce, he's proving a lot of people wrong.
There's a long way to go, but as Ron would say "do you want to bet against us"?
-
What was pleasing today was our passing and ball retention. Often that goes out the window in the Derby but I thought for a local grudge match we showed a lot of quality. The passing and movement have been hallmarks of our upturn in fortune since Boxing Day. I even thought Blues tried to keep the ball on the deck even if they were fairly impotent. Hourihanes goal reminded me of the sort of goal Garry Parker used tomscore, particularly his goals at Anfield, Bramall Lane and Maine Road.
-
Straight 8 in a row is my best lifetime experience with the Villa however as Fulham are below us I will be happy with a draw there.
just League matches only ?? What season was that?
-
Our rivals have a tough run of fixtures. None of those teams will want to come to Villa Park needing a result.
Fulhams next 5
Villa (h)
Bristol City (a)
Wolves (h)
Derby (a)
Sheff U (h)
-
Don't forget - 80 points wold have achieived 2nd place only TWICE in the last 10 years 2008 + 2013
-
What was pleasing today was our passing and ball retention. Often that goes out the window in the Derby but I thought for a local grudge match we showed a lot of quality. The passing and movement have been hallmarks of our upturn in fortune since Boxing Day. I even thought Blues tried to keep the ball on the deck even if they were fairly impotent. Hourihanes goal reminded me of the sort of goal Garry Parker used tomscore, particularly his goals at Anfield, Bramall Lane and Maine Road.
I think Jack has played a massive part in that, both in being able to find space to receive a pass, and that our players have confidence to pass to him even when it's a little crowded, because they know he can wiggle out of it.
-
What was pleasing today was our passing and ball retention. Often that goes out the window in the Derby but I thought for a local grudge match we showed a lot of quality. The passing and movement have been hallmarks of our upturn in fortune since Boxing Day. I even thought Blues tried to keep the ball on the deck even if they were fairly impotent. Hourihanes goal reminded me of the sort of goal Garry Parker used tomscore, particularly his goals at Anfield, Bramall Lane and Maine Road.
I think Jack has played a massive part in that, both in being able to find space to receive a pass, and that our players have confidence to pass to him even when it's a little crowded, because they know he can wiggle out of it.
That's so true. I've complained that our midfield for many years now have always looked for the safe option, which has invariably meant passing backwards or sideways. That still may be true of them, but now the safest option is to pass it forward twenty yards to Jack. It makes such a massive difference to how we play. We're in their half, not ours.
-
What was pleasing today was our passing and ball retention. Often that goes out the window in the Derby but I thought for a local grudge match we showed a lot of quality. The passing and movement have been hallmarks of our upturn in fortune since Boxing Day. I even thought Blues tried to keep the ball on the deck even if they were fairly impotent. Hourihanes goal reminded me of the sort of goal Garry Parker used tomscore, particularly his goals at Anfield, Bramall Lane and Maine Road.
I think Jack has played a massive part in that, both in being able to find space to receive a pass, and that our players have confidence to pass to him even when it's a little crowded, because they know he can wiggle out of it.
Yes. Jack is always looking and asking for the ball, regardless of how closely he is being marked. 9 times out of 10, his team mates are happy to give it to him. He's currently the best player in the division imo.
-
Don't forget - 80 points wold have achieived 2nd place only TWICE in the last 10 years 2008 + 2013
I think 8 more wins could be enough, given we'd get a few draws from the other 7 games. 9 more wins would almost certainly be enough.
-
one game at a time. Lets just win the next one
-
one game at a time. Lets just win the next one
It's always going to be about the next game but in a thread about promotion maths, you have to speculate as to what the "maths" will be.
-
Don't forget - 80 points wold have achieived 2nd place only TWICE in the last 10 years 2008 + 2013
This may just be a freak year. Likes of Cardiff and Derby aren't on Brighton's level from last year.
-
Derby have Weds on Tuesday. We could be third again having to go to Fulham. 2nd place by no means assured.
-
Don't forget - 80 points wold have achieived 2nd place only TWICE in the last 10 years 2008 + 2013
I think 8 more wins could be enough, given we'd get a few draws from the other 7 games. 9 more wins would almost certainly be enough.
I still think we should be aiming for 90 points.
-
Don't forget - 80 points wold have achieived 2nd place only TWICE in the last 10 years 2008 + 2013
I think 8 more wins could be enough, given we'd get a few draws from the other 7 games. 9 more wins would almost certainly be enough.
I still think we should be aiming for 90 points.
I agree - That's an average of slightly more than 2 points a game which isn't beyond the realms of being achievable.
Realistically though, I don't think that 90 will be needed this season as there are currently 4 teams (5 if you count Wolves) playing for automatic promotion. Other seasons when 90 points have been achieved, there have been 2 or 3 teams competing and so the points tally is slightly higher. Ultimately, the teams below us probably need to win 1 more game than we do and with so many difficult games for everyone to play, I don't see anyone winning more than 8 or 9. Fulham probably need to win 10 or 11 from 15. If we could do the unthinkable and get all 3 points there on Saturday, we'd probably as good as finish them off. If we can prevent them from winning, we'd keep a 7 point gap between them, meaning they'd need to win at least 2 more than us out of 14 games. They have a very difficult run coming up as well.
-
Oh I agree, I just think that 10 wins and a draw from here and we get 2nd without question because no one else will match that. 86-87 I think is in reach of Cardiff and Derby (and Fulham potentially) but I don't see them getting much more than that. If we aim for 90 we'd probably go into the last 2-3 games needing a couple of points to secure the spot, which is where I want us to be.
-
Derby have Weds on Tuesday.
That must be why they are doing so well this year, they are a day ahead of everyone else.
-
The last time we won eight league matches in a row, was 1974/75.
-
The OConnells never really did anything else after this
-
This could be mirroring Burnley from a few years ago in championship. A run starting after boxing day December 23 matches unbeaten took them up as champions!
Promoted
Burnley won 93pts
Middlesborough 89points
3rd place was Brighton 89 points lost out by 2 goals.
Mbough played Brighton 1-1 last match decider. This could be similar villa and derby one of last matches
-
After 31 matches last season: Newcastle pts 66/ gd 35, Brighton 65/ 26, Huddersfield 61/ 7. Now: Wolves 71/ 33, Villa 59/ 21, Derby 58/ 24.
-
Surprised Newcastle and Brighton weren't in the 70s points range this time last year as they both were comfortably ahead of the chasing pack for pretty much all of the season.
-
This season is starting to remind me of 1974/75 when we hit form at the right time and grew stronger as the season went on. Although playing in a different position, Grealish's form and growing influence is similar to Brian Little in that season.
-
one game at a time. Lets just win the next one
It's always going to be about the next game but in a thread about promotion maths, you have to speculate as to what the "maths" will be.
You’re right of course, but I come on here every day then after reading it all think, all that matters is we’re one point ahead of third with 15 matches to go... that’s how it gets you.
-
I'm taking it one game at a time as well and i'm sure the players are as well. No harm in speculating though.
-
one game at a time. Lets just win the next one
It's always going to be about the next game but in a thread about promotion maths, you have to speculate as to what the "maths" will be.
You’re right of course, but I come on here every day then after reading it all think, all that matters is we’re one point ahead of third with 15 matches to go... that’s how it gets you.
I'm enjoying our new found confidence and run of form. can't stop thinking about our next match... and the one after that etc. Games can't come around quickly enough for me. While I'm waiting, I can't help but look at fixtures and think ahead further than the next game. I'm currently focusing on the next little run of fixtures leading up to the Wolves game, which after Saturday are all winnable.
Fans are different to players who have it rammed home regularly not to think further ahead of the next game. We are no different to fans of anyone in the top 10 of this division - They will all be speculating and looking ahead at not only their own teams fixtures but also of those of the teams around them in the league.
Ultimately it means nothing of course because it is impossible to predict results but many find it enjoyable and I dare say some even find it therapeutic.
On that note, I'm just going to search to see if Cardiff or Derby have any injuries ahead of tonights games. The way the fixtures fall thick and fast, it's often the case that a promotion rival is playing before your next game anyway - Which fans the flames of the speculation further.
I'm enjoying every minute of this - I never thought we were going to be in this position after some of our earlier games and even as recently as Boxing Day, I thought the play offs were the highest we could aim for. Now, I'll be disappointed if the play offs are all this team can achieve.
-
In hindsight we'll be able to pick out sliding doors moments, but if we do end up with second, it'll be Steve Agnew coming in or Scott Hogan's performance at Brentford on Boxing Day. The former because we've been so much better seemingly since the minute he arrived, and the latter because finally it seemed to click between him and our midfield. He bagged his header against Bristol and has been indispensable ever since.
-
Derby losing. Ey-up
-
Thank you Sheffield Wednesday.
-
Interesting after those results. Villa hold to second. 21 GD and point ahead
3rd 32 played Derby 58pts GD 22
4th 31 played Cardiff 58pts GD 20
-
If we can beat Fulham that would be a 10 point lead on them with 14 games left, really would be huge for us. I can see Bruce going for a point though.
-
Thank you Sheffield Wednesday.
Next 3 matches this week are Fulham away Preston Tuesday and sheff W away Saturday. I think Sheffield Wed could be when we draw but villa win next 2 which means 7 points this week.
Cardiff have 3 matches. Boro h, Ipswich a, Bristol City h. 3points
Derby have 2 matches Leeds h Reading a. 4 points.
My forecast by Sunday 25th Feb
Villa 66 points 34 matches played
Derby 62 points 34 matches played
Cardiff 61 points 34 matches played.
-
Next step is to start putting teams away. First Fulham, then Cardiff, then Derby. We have an excellent chance to do so now.
-
Next 3 matches this week are Fulham away Preston Tuesday and Wednesday away Saturday. I think Sheffield Wed could be when we draw but villa win next 2.
[/quote]
That'll do for me.
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
-
I think us living up to our potential will set the nerves going in the other clubs - when you've never done it then you somehow prey on your own mind that the experienced players will find a way, and therefore allow them a way in your own mindset. Terry was a masterstroke because the will of Aston Villa is connected with the will of John Terry who just wins. Where is the Derby equivalent or the Cardiff equivalent - they are going to have to dig a hell of a lot deeper and the classic is supply to the strikers and their belief - wobble and it all falls apart.... I don't think we'll wobble anywhere near as much as the rest.
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
Have a look at Cardiff's run from Mid March. Derby away, Sheffield United away, Wolves home, Us away and Norwich away all within four weeks.
Derby blowing up is very good news.
-
Next step is to start putting teams away. First Fulham, then Cardiff, then Derby. We have an excellent chance to do so now.
Fulham have to play villa Bristol city and wolves this week. Their form will come to an end.
Cardiff are away to villa and derby
Cardiff also have to play wolves and villa in space of 3 days.
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
Really? I don’t see Derby out of it personally. If Fulham manage to beat us on Saturday it’s all in the mix
-
I think we need to wait until after Saturday before assessing Fulham's chances. I also wouldn't write derby off, given they are just a point behind us. I did say a couple of weeks ago that it would be good to see how they cope with the pressure of a 1 point lead or 1 point deficit. It was all very well going to Blues with no pressure, given they were 6 points ahead of 3rd but things change once it gets tight between the challengers.
The next batch of games up to Wolves is interesting:
Fulham A
Preston H
Wednesday A
QPR H
Sunderland A
In that period, Fulham play ourselves, Wolves, Derby, Bristol City and Sheffield United. Cardiff also play Bristol City and Derby face Leeds.
-
You can’t write anyone off who is just a point behind.
That was us last week and we weren’t being written off.
I must say, Cardiff do seem particularly resilient. They could be the darkest horse of all.
-
Up by Easter more or less.
-
Up by Easter more or less.
Are we on about Jesus now?
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
Really? I don’t see Derby out of it personally. If Fulham manage to beat us on Saturday it’s all in the mix
No way are Derby getting another 30 points this season. Would need to win 10 of their last 14 games.
-
Up by Easter more or less.
Are we on about Jesus now?
Jesus saves, but Hogan smashes in the rebound to seal promotion.
-
Derby losing tonight helps us particularly if we get an 8th win on the trot on Saturday.
-
I'm finding it increasingly difficult not to start getting carried away.
-
You can’t write anyone off who is just a point behind.
That was us last week and we weren’t being written off.
It’s all about momentum young man, momentum.
-
Derby losing tonight helps us particularly if we get an 8th win on the trot on Saturday.
It’s not about the .8th win it’s about winning a game the next one.
-
I’ve estimated 31 points from the remaining games. That gives us 90. Surely enough to get 2nd?
-
It's all about consistency from here. Derby seem to have hit their sticky patch but will come again. Cardiff are through theirs I think. If we win 10 of the last 15 I think it will be good enough to take 2nd now, but that is by no means a certainty. A couple of key injuries would hurt us. Fulham away is about as big a test I can think of though, win this weekend and the confidence in our squad will be incredibly high.
-
Derby losing tonight helps us particularly if we get an 8th win on the trot on Saturday.
It’s not about the .8th win it’s about winning a game the next one.
You can’t write anyone off who is just a point behind.
That was us last week and we weren’t being written off.
It’s all about momentum young man, momentum.
That’s the best valentines message I’ve ever had. It’s been a long time since I was called young man.😄
-
Next step is to start putting teams away. First Fulham, then Cardiff, then Derby. We have an excellent chance to do so now.
Fulham have to play villa Bristol city and wolves this week. Their form will come to an end.
Cardiff are away to villa and derby
Cardiff also have to play wolves and villa in space of 3 days.
The more our rivals for second have to play each other the better. And as I said a couple of weeks back we should be cheering on Wolves whenever they play against any of them.
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
Just like we were out of it 6 weeks ago? You’re nuts if you think Derby are out of this race.
-
After tonight Derby are out of it for 2nd place. It's a bit too much for Fulham so between us and Cardiff.
Just like we were out of it 6 weeks ago? You’re nuts if you think Derby are out of this race.
If we lose Saturday it's wide open between the 4 of us. If we win it's ours for the taking.
-
Next step is to start putting teams away. First Fulham, then Cardiff, then Derby. We have an excellent chance to do so now.
Fulham have to play villa Bristol city and wolves this week. Their form will come to an end.
Cardiff are away to villa and derby
Cardiff also have to play wolves and villa in space of 3 days.
The more our rivals for second have to play each other the better. And as I said a couple of weeks back we should be cheering on Wolves whenever they play against any of them.
Wash your mouth out! We're going to win this league!
-
After Wolves lost at home to Forest 4 games back, I felt there was a slim possibility that they may have a sticky patch and get sucked back in. At the time, I thought they needed 9 wins out of 18 games. They've since won their last 3, meaning 6 wins out of 15 games will put them on 89 points, even if they lose the other 7.
It will take a pretty gallant effort to catch Wolves at this stage. I've let go of any lingering hopes I had of catching them now. I accept we're in a 4 way battle for 2nd.
-
It would take a Devon Loch collapse for anyone catch Wolves. We need to concentrate on putting a gap between us and those chasing second over the next month or so. And we have the games to do it.
-
Why were Derby playing last night? They didn't have a game in hand. Wednesday still in the Cup or summat?
-
After Wolves lost at home to Forest 4 games back, I felt there was a slim possibility that they may have a sticky patch and get sucked back in. At the time, I thought they needed 9 wins out of 18 games. They've since won their last 3, meaning 6 wins out of 15 games will put them on 89 points, even if they lose the other 7.
It will take a pretty gallant effort to catch Wolves at this stage. I've let go of any lingering hopes I had of catching them now. I accept we're in a 4 way battle for 2nd.
Same here. I just want to get in the Taxi, they can sit in the front.
-
Why were Derby playing last night? They didn't have a game in hand. Wednesday still in the Cup or summat?
Yes Wednesday are still in the cup and the games are this Saturday. It's taken a bit of pressure off us this weekend because whatever we do, we remain ahead of Derby. Any kind of result widens the gap between us.
-
6 week ago we were in a shit run. Every side bar Wolves has had purple and sticky patches
Football is so ridiculously short term that everyone’s backing us now but there’s still an awful lot to do. We’ve had a decent bit of luck in recent games and that won’t carry on.
-
6 week ago we were in a shit run. Every side bar Wolves has had purple and sticky patches
Football is so ridiculously short term that everyone’s backing us now but there’s still an awful lot to do. We’ve had a decent bit of luck in recent games and that won’t carry on.
Such as?
-
I'm curious as to where we've been lucky.
-
Every team needs a bit of luck. I would say early in the game vs Sheff Utd or the post helping us against the Noses are two that immediately come to mind. But that said we could have scored many times ourselves. So in the grand scheme of things and on the overall balance of play and possession we’ve deserved to win all 7 games.
-
I'm curious as to where we've been lucky.
Bristol City - the 5th goal took a massive deflection.
-
Bristol could have been 2 or 3-0 up in the first 20 minutes. Might just be the division - less quality means sides aren't taking chances which is giving us a foothold in the game which we've then been able to go on and win.
-
Bristol could have been 2 or 3-0 up in the first 20 minutes. Might just be the division - less quality means sides aren't taking chances which is giving us a foothold in the game which we've then been able to go on and win.
Could they? The only clear chance I could recall them having was the shot off the line and we were 2 up at that stage.
It balances up over the season anyway, Boro and Hull at home are games we should've won a hundred times over.
-
Ive crunched the numbers and looked at all the remaining fixtures for the teams from 2nd to 6th and come up with :
Villa - 90
Cardiff - 90
Derby - 84
Fulham - 82
Brizzle - 76
All down to goal difference and we are 2 behind Cardiff atm. Basically we win 1 more game than them.
Our home games against Wolves, Cardiff and Derby all look butt-clenchers.
-
Don't see us or Cardiff making 90 points.
How many points do you have Cardiff getting out of Sheffield United away, Wolves home, Us away and Norwich away chap?
-
Don't see us or Cardiff making 90 points.
How many points do you have Cardiff getting out of Sheffield United away, Wolves home, Us away and Norwich away chap?
3
-
Don't see us or Cardiff making 90 points.
How many points do you have Cardiff getting out of Sheffield United away, Wolves home, Us away and Norwich away chap?
3
Forgot to add Derby away to that bunch of games as that starts off the Cardiff run.
So I take it from that if you give them just 3 points from those 4 games they win pretty much every other game they play? Don't see that happening.
-
That being second malarkey didn't last long did it?
-
That being second malarkey didn't last long did it?
A bit like the clamour for Millwall tickets.
-
Every time I see Cardiff Hoilett is involved in their wins/goals , we could do with him getting injured. I think we will finish 4th, sadly...behind Fulham and Cardiff.
-
I think 2nd will keep changing hands right up to the last game or two so all that matters is that we time things to be that team ahead of the rest come May.
-
I said weeks ago I think Fulham will go on a run and be the biggest challenge for 2nd. They're full of pace and play some of the best football in the league.
What worries me if we ended up in the play offs is I wouldn't fancy us at all against Derby, Fulham or Cardiff. For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
-
Lots of big games still to go, with teams up the top all still to play each other. Preston had a man sent-off yesterday too. Worth remembering that our top scorer was out injured against Fulham and our best player over the last 6 weeks too.
There’s a long way to go yet.
-
Be interesting to see if Fulham are still in the mix after their next 6 games - Bristol City Wolves Derby Sheff Utd Preston and QPR
-
I said weeks ago I think Fulham will go on a run and be the biggest challenge for 2nd. They're full of pace and play some of the best football in the league.
What worries me if we ended up in the play offs is I wouldn't fancy us at all against Derby, Fulham or Cardiff. For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
I think we'll slaughter everybody we meet and it does wonders for my mental health and general outlook on life.
-
I said weeks ago I think Fulham will go on a run and be the biggest challenge for 2nd. They're full of pace and play some of the best football in the league.
What worries me if we ended up in the play offs is I wouldn't fancy us at all against Derby, Fulham or Cardiff. For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
I think we'll slaughter everybody we meet and it does wonders for my mental health and general outlook on life.
My mental health and outlook on life are just fine thanks.
-
I thought we'd left Bristol City for dust but if they beat Leeds today (winning 2-0 at the moment) they'll be snapping at our heels again. What do we need to do to get clear, win twenty games on the trot, goddammit?
-
...For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
I think we'll slaughter everybody we meet and it does wonders for my mental health and general outlook on life.
My mental health and outlook on life are just fine thanks.
Yes. Sorry. I didn't mean that to come out like that.
-
I said weeks ago I think Fulham will go on a run and be the biggest challenge for 2nd. They're full of pace and play some of the best football in the league.
What worries me if we ended up in the play offs is I wouldn't fancy us at all against Derby, Fulham or Cardiff. For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
They won't rip us apart. They didn't yesterday even with our two best players out.
-
We’ve still got a great chance of automatic. But if we have to settle for playoffs I hope Fulham get second. I’d be quite confident we can take the rest. I know we lost at derby and Cardiff but they were the two worst periods of our season form wise
-
I think we will finish 2nd.
Fulham will need 11 more wins and they won't get that.
-
I think we will finish 2nd.
Fulham will need 11 more wins and they won't get that.
To do what?
-
Finish 2nd.
-
I said weeks ago I think Fulham will go on a run and be the biggest challenge for 2nd. They're full of pace and play some of the best football in the league.
What worries me if we ended up in the play offs is I wouldn't fancy us at all against Derby, Fulham or Cardiff. For instance if we ended up in the final against Fulham I think they'd rip us apart at Wembley.
I think we'll slaughter everybody we meet and it does wonders for my mental health and general outlook on life.
As a fellow teacher I can only nod sagely and mutter that that does it for me, as well, on a Sunday night.
(;) for anybody worried about the fate of anybody I am likely to meet tomorrow)
-
I don't fancy Fulham for second place. I think that is between us, Cardiff and Derby.
-
The next 5 games will go a long way to deciding where Fulham finish. Brizzle (A), Wolves (H), Derby (A), Sheff Utd (H) and Preston (A).
-
Bookies will give good odds they win all those. 50-1 at least.
Fulham won't finish second simply because of who they have on the final day. They will probably bottle that fixture....
-
We could play Fulham ten times again and not self destruct like we did yesterday afternoon in the second half. Johnstone could take that free kick a hundred times and it would not get plonked into the net behind him. Next time we play Fulham bet your mortgage on us. That defeat really stung our players.
-
I thought they looked better than us for most of the game
Obviously mitigating circumstances with our injuries
-
I didn't. I thought second half they came out with more purpose as we looked more disorganised with Elmo having gone off and they capitalised.
They then retreated back into themselves until a gift. Then with Jedi out of the way they had a few more chances.
-
We invariably find a way not to win at Craven Cottage. I think it's one win there since we were in division 3.
-
We could play Fulham ten times again and not self destruct like we did yesterday afternoon in the second half. Johnstone could take that free kick a hundred times and it would not get plonked into the net behind him. Next time we play Fulham bet your mortgage on us. That defeat really stung our players.
Depends where we play them.. We always beat them at VP where they're reluctant to cross the halfway line for some reason.
-
Their performance this season was a little bit better, they were still shite though. The one last season however, Jesus, there was more busses parked on our pitch than parked on the Witton Lane.
-
We were second best in the second half, self inflicted maybe, but a poor performance and result nonetheless.
-
We could play Fulham ten times again and not self destruct like we did yesterday afternoon in the second half. Johnstone could take that free kick a hundred times and it would not get plonked into the net behind him. Next time we play Fulham bet your mortgage on us. That defeat really stung our players.
Yep, watch out Preston.
And Sheff Wed as I'll be there.
-
We're still in it. Nine points from the next three games and this blip will be forgotten.
-
Even without Albert and Jack we should be beating Sunderland and QPR. Sheff Weds is the question mark game, not sure what result to expect from that one.
-
When are they going to be fit?
-
Adomah is out for a while. Grealish is a doubt for Saturday.
-
Preston are 17 games unbeaten I read and were leading against Wolves before going down to 10 men so they are no mugs still with Cardiff hitting form again it was points we couldn't afford to drop need to get back to winning ways fast
-
Preston are 17 games unbeaten I read and were leading against Wolves before going down to 10 men so they are no mugs
Why were they running around with handles on thier backs?
-
Does sound like Adomah is our for weeks and Grealish will be out Saturday’s game. Just pray we don’t have 4 Defensive Midfielders in the squad again.
-
Preston are 17 games unbeaten I read and were leading against Wolves before going down to 10 men so they are no mugs still with Cardiff hitting form again it was points we couldn't afford to drop need to get back to winning ways fast
6 league games before tonight. I think tonight's game makes it 1 defeat in 17 league games.
-
Six of the next seven against teams in the bottom 10 of the division. 14 point minimum for me to go into the last six with a bit of a cushion hopefully.
-
1 POINT LAST NIGHT!
Before the game I say 2 points dropped, after that performance a lucky point gained.
are we really a 2 man team.
best squad in the league???
-
no
-
1 POINT LAST NIGHT!
Before the game I say 2 points dropped, after that performance a lucky point gained.
are we really a 2 man team.
best squad in the league???
22 POINTS FROM THE LAST 27!
I'd say we've come up against two other good sides and lost our best players in the last couple of games.
No, we're not and it would be stupid to think we were.
One of the best!!!
-
As beat Preston away this home draw still okay as its 4 points.
I could see Cardiff and or Derby drawing. 2 losses would be unlikely. Would set fair for weekend after this evening points wise.
The big issue are these 2 at home and that the villa win both do that and that's a great advantage
-
Preparing for the worst but is the play off final on a Saturday or Bank holiday Monday this season?
Want to get a ticket for the Slam Dunk festival at the NEC which is on the Monday (likes of Good Charlotte and Jimmy Eat World so not a metalhead in sight) but don't want it clashing with us in the play off final.
Pretty sure it's usually on a Saturday when there's a tournament on in the summer.
-
Saturday of the bank holiday weekend
-
Saturday of the bank holiday weekend
That will do very nicely.
Hopefully it won't come to that though.
-
Well good and bad tonight i guess. Bad is cardiff now 4 points ahead of us. good is none of the teams below us won, but its very tight. Need to get back to winning ways fast because same results saturday and cardiff will be disappearing into the distance
-
We need 7 points from our next three.
We really should be capable of that even with the injuries given who we're playing.
-
If we missed out to Derby obviously we'd still be pissed off but you could kind of hold your hands up and say fair enough. They've got 27 strikers and play decent football at times. If we finish below Cardiff and Warnock it should go down as a massive failure. Their budget has been a fraction of ours and they play football that would make McLeish wince.
-
If we missed out to Derby obviously we'd still be pissed off but you could kind of hold your hands up and say fair enough. They've got 27 strikers and play decent football at times. If we finish below Cardiff and Warnock it should go down as a massive failure. Their budget has been a fraction of ours and they play football that would make McLeish wince.
If that happens our slow start to the season will have cost us big time.
We started with 1 win in 9. Cardiff won their first five league games so within the first month we were ten points behind them.
Something like that shouldn't have happened particularly after our start to the previous season.
We didn't even play that many decent teams at the start. 1 point from Hull and Reading who are in or just above the relegation zone.
-
I had a quick look on a Cardiff forum after they drew with Millwall the other week and were basically robbed by the ref. There was a thread on there along the lines of "who seriously thinks we're still going up". I imagine they're feeling a bit differently tonight. This raises a few interesting points, firstly things can change fast, secondly they're perhaps not all that but are functional and find a way to win more often than not (a bit like us), thirdly fans are very quick to fear the worst after a couple of bad results. Keep the faith brothers and sisters. Lots of ups and downs to come over the next 10 weeks but isn't it good to be in the thick of it?
-
We need 7 points from our next three.
We really should be capable of that even with the injuries given who we're playing.
yep, i'd settle for that.
-
I wouldn't. We need to beat Wednesday, QPR and Sunderland. Three really poor sides.
-
The way we've played the last two games there is no way we're winning all three games coming up. Without Adomah and Grealish we don't even look like scoring from open play.
-
Depends on selection. We are playing three struggling sides, one of which is the worst in the division. Step down from Fulham and even workman like Preston.
-
Whatever you think of Warnock he has done a superb job at Cardiff. From where they were when you took over as manager to where they are on what he’s had to spend is just remarkable.
-
Saturday of the bank holiday weekend
That will do very nicely.
Hopefully it won't come to that though.
Champions league final too.
-
If we took 40,000 to a playoff final I doubt our collective sphincter could cope if that’s not too grotesque an image. One lit fag inside the stadium could signal Armageddon.
-
We need 7 points from our next three.
We really should be capable of that even with the injuries given who we're playing.
yep, i'd settle for that.
Considering how disjointed we looked last night I'd have to agree. If we could get 7 points from the next 3 we'll have at least got over a slight blip and can hopefully push on from there with players returning from injury.
-
Preparing for the worst but is the play off final on a Saturday or Bank holiday Monday this season?
Want to get a ticket for the Slam Dunk festival at the NEC which is on the Monday (likes of Good Charlotte and Jimmy Eat World so not a metalhead in sight) but don't want it clashing with us in the play off final.
Pretty sure it's usually on a Saturday when there's a tournament on in the summer.
Haha. But Everytime I Die, Counterparts, Comeback Kid and Northlane are on that bill....you're going to have to put up with a few of us metalheads mate!
I read your post with interest, as I'm thinking of flying back to the UK in May. Hopefully to cheer us on to automatic promotion, but if not, for the playoffs period. When I told my mate, he said 'great, let's go to Slam Dunk, too'.
Slam Dunk or Villa? Definitely Villa, but I reckon the playoff final is on a Saturday this year.
-
From EFL website:
Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final: Saturday 26th May 2018
-
From EFL website:
Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final: Saturday 26th May 2018
Ooh, Rotterdam Day.
-
Cardiff play even uglier football than us. We can't let them get away with it.
-
From EFL website:
Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final: Saturday 26th May 2018
See you in May, hopefully mate!
-
Cardiff are an awful side to watch. Really horrible.
I think Bruce is just too cautious to get 2nd. We look clueless going forward without Jack and Albert. Needs to trust Ohare in a couple of games.
-
Depends on selection.
3 draws it is.
-
Cardiff are an awful side to watch. Really horrible.
I think Bruce is just too cautious to get 2nd. We look clueless going forward without Jack and Albert. Needs to trust Ohare in a couple of games.
Was discussing our situation last night with a friend who is a fellow Villa fan. He was saying that his concern about the play offs would be the away leg at somewhere like Derby, Cardiff or Fulham. If we go somewhere like that first and put in the kind of performance we have at those places this season (2 x 2-0 defeats and a 3-0), it would be very difficult to turn things round in the home leg.
-
Our away performances against teams around us are very depressing. 3-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-0. All but one of these teams are yet to come to VP and I can not see us winning any of those matches. Autopro will depend on beating Wolves, Cardiff and Derby I think. <:(
-
From EFL website:
Sky Bet Championship Play-Off Final: Saturday 26th May 2018
See you in May, hopefully mate!
Wemberlee it is then :)
-
Our away performances against teams around us are very depressing. 3-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-0. All but one of these teams are yet to come to VP and I can not see us winning any of those matches. Autopro will depend on beating Wolves, Cardiff and Derby I think. <:(
We need about 9 wins out of 13 remaining games. Certainly, we need to win 2 of those 3 games. There's a possibility that Derby may be out of it by the time we play them which could tempt them to field a weakened side, as Huddersfield did at Blues last season.
My concern is that the injuries have knocked us out of our stride. We need to get back on track as the gap between us and second is growing again. When Jack comes back, he needs to hit the ground running (which I think he will).
-
9 wins and 3 draws on the basis that 90 odd points is required for 2nd. Get that and we will go up automatically, whether we need that is another matter.
Fulham feels like the last fixture where you feel its a tough game where a point is decent.
Derby, Cardiff, Wolves at home, there's an expectation to beat them all. We've taken more points at home these past two seasons than anybody else, so we're very strong.
I think its probably more likely that 86 points will be enough, but aim for the statistical certainty. Means we need to have an excellent 10 days with Sheffield Wednesday, QPR and Sunderland and take maximum points.
All of a sudden 6 wins from 10 games looks very doable.
Its about how positive we can be and ensuring we try and win every game.
QPR
Leeds
Cardiff
Derby
Reading
Ipswich [away]
Sunderland [away]
Hull [away]
Wednesday [away]
Bolton [away]
Norwich, Wolves and Millwall apart, if we don't go up automatically, we want fucking shooting.
-
Norwich, Wolves and Millwall apart, if we don't go up automatically, we want fucking shooting.
Or the man responsible does...
-
9 wins and 2 draws puts us on 89 points.
As you say, we've got to be positive. Cardiff seem to have found a knack of grinding out wins - I'm not convinced we could do that 9 times out of 13. We need to be looking to win every game we play in now. Going for draws hasn't really worked for us.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
-
With Grealish and Adomah on the sidelines, we might just have to grind through games and hoping others around us drop points. Hopefully those two will return soon and we can then look at putting the kind of run together that will see us home.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
Not really. We beat sides up there, smashed one silly in fact. The other two were away from home as well. We lost to Fulham, who drew to the side we hammered which is evidence of how tight it is.
7 of the last 13 are against bottom half sides where if we win all of them [and your accusation is we're flat track bullies] then we'd probably need to avoid defeat against Cardiff and Derby and have enough in the balance to go up 2nd.
Millwall
Bolton
Hull
Sunderland
Sheffield Wednesday
Reading
QPR
All bottom half sides;
Leeds
Norwhich
Ipswich
All mid-table going nowhere.
Wolves
Derby
Cardiff
All rivals, but all have to come to the hardest place to pick up points in the league, the home of football where adding context, we may not need to beat the latter two, simply avoid defeat to maintain the gap.
As I say, the goal should be statistical certainty, but in the context of what others do, win the next 3, get back to second and matching Cardiff/Derby/Fulham will be enough. That may be 90 points, it probably will be a bit less.
Come Bruce you fucker, its on a plate. You know what to do with things on a plate surely.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
Bristol City at home, Middlesbrough and Sheff U away were not easy games by any stretch.
All teams around us have difficult games so it's the same problem for each team. 9 is only an estimate - It could be that 8 or even 7 would be enough.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
Bristol City at home, Middlesbrough and Sheff U away were not easy games by any stretch.
All teams around us have difficult games so it's the same problem for each team. 9 is only an estimate - It could be that 8 or even 7 would be enough.
I think we're in broad agreement. Aim for what we know will send us up and it will likely turn out to be more than enough. But the onus is on us to win games. If we set about teams, we more often than not win the game.
I feel a lot more positive having broken down our fixtures into tranches. Doing the same for Cardiff;
Burton
Forrest
SHA
Barnsley
Reading
Hull
Are their bottom half sides;
Brentford
Norwich
Mid table sides;
Bristol City
Wolves
Us [away]
Sheffield United [away]
Derby [away]
The rivals.
I think their fixtures are a lot nastier than ours. March looks tricky,a s do their immediate next two games with a Derby and Brentford hoping to move up into the next tranche.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
Bristol City at home, Middlesbrough and Sheff U away were not easy games by any stretch.
All teams around us have difficult games so it's the same problem for each team. 9 is only an estimate - It could be that 8 or even 7 would be enough.
I think we're in broad agreement. Aim for what we know will send us up and it will likely turn out to be more than enough. But the onus is on us to win games. If we set about teams, we more often than not win the game.
I feel a lot more positive having broken down our fixtures into tranches. Doing the same for Cardiff;
Burton
Forrest
SHA
Barnsley
Reading
Hull
Are their bottom half sides;
Brentford
Norwich
Mid table sides;
Bristol City
Wolves
Us [away]
Sheffield United [away]
Derby [away]
The rivals.
I think their fixtures are a lot nastier than ours. March looks tricky,a s do their immediate next two games with a Derby and Brentford hoping to move up into the next tranche.
Cardiff have to play Bristol (H) and Derby (A) in March and their April is tricky with Sheff U (A), Wolves (H) and us away.
Derby have Fulham and Cardiff (H) and in April they have PNE (A), Wolves (A) and Us (A).
Fulham have a tricky March - Wolves (A), Derby (A), Sheff U (H) and PNE (A) whilst they have an easier April with perjaps Brentford away the toughest?
last game of the season we (IMO) have the hardest game - Millwall (A) whilst Cardiff have Reading (H), Derby Barnsley (H) and Fulham Burton (A).
All to play for and as long as we don't self implode no reason we can't get second spot, particularly if we beat Cardiff and Derby at home. UTV
-
I reckon Cardff will get about six points from their tough run in March-April.
Derby- Loss
Sheffield United- draw
Wolves- Draw
Us- draw
Norwich- win.
I can see them losing at Brentford aswell.
6 points from six games.
If they win every other game they finish on 91 points hmmm.
I personally think anything around 90 points is beyond us. 85-88 points is still very possible but we need to start winning quick.
-
I don't see them winning 9 more games and I don't see them avoiding defeat in all but one of those fixtures.
-
Lots wil change between now and the end of the season. I’m sure some Cardiff fans were kissing us goodbye just a 10 days ago after we stuffed the rags. Cardiff have done really well but they’re not Real Madrid by any stretch. They’ll have their bumps along the way. We need to get back to winning ourselves starting this weekend.
-
Those fixture breakdowns have made me a lot chirpier
Thanks guys
I’ve still got a nasty hangover mind
-
Wednesday
QPR
Sunderland
Wolves
Bolton
Hull
Think we've got to be looking at 14 points from that lot. Would leave us needing 3-5 wins from the final 7, but with the two six pointers I guess it's harder to predict what we will actually need.
-
Wednesday
QPR
Sunderland
Wolves
Bolton
Hull
Think we've got to be looking at 14 points from that lot. Would leave us needing 3-5 wins from the final 7, but with the two six pointers I guess it's harder to predict what we will actually need.
In the cold light of day, looking at that list, for any team expecting to go up automatically Sunderland, Bolton and Hull should be a guaranteed 9 points, Wednesday and QPR should be tougher but still winnable and even Wolves at home should be a win if we're going up automatically.
It's only Bruce's safety-first tactics that kill my confidence.
-
I know we've just won 7 out of 9 but compare the teams we've played in that run to the teams we've got to play between now and the end of the season and 9 wins and 2 draws from 13 looks way beyond us to me.
Not really. We beat sides up there, smashed one silly in fact. The other two were away from home as well. We lost to Fulham, who drew to the side we hammered which is evidence of how tight it is.
7 of the last 13 are against bottom half sides where if we win all of them [and your accusation is we're flat track bullies] then we'd probably need to avoid defeat against Cardiff and Derby and have enough in the balance to go up 2nd.
Millwall
Bolton
Hull
Sunderland
Sheffield Wednesday
Reading
QPR
All bottom half sides;
Leeds
Norwhich
Ipswich
All mid-table going nowhere.
Wolves
Derby
Cardiff
All rivals, but all have to come to the hardest place to pick up points in the league, the home of football where adding context, we may not need to beat the latter two, simply avoid defeat to maintain the gap.
As I say, the goal should be statistical certainty, but in the context of what others do, win the next 3, get back to second and matching Cardiff/Derby/Fulham will be enough. That may be 90 points, it probably will be a bit less.
Come Bruce you fucker, its on a plate. You know what to do with things on a plate surely.
As ever spot on Ads..i think the next 6 games is make or break..we should be looking at a minimum of 13-15 points out of that lot.We will never have a better chance to go up. Frankly it's now or years amongst the dead men.
-
I wish i was as confident as some on here. While i can see us not losing that much, it's the draws that will kill you. Either way in the next 6 games, we'd be aiming at 4 points (goal difference willing) more than cardiff get to be above them so....
bristol c 1
brentford away 1
barnsley 3
birmingham3
derby away 0
burton3
So a guesstimate i make that 11 points, meaning we'd need 15. Obviously getting above them with 7 games to go isn't essential but we'd certainly need to be in striking distance to take advantage of them with their hard run in April and beat them of course. Plus we have to hope the other teams around us don't do anything decent in the same period. I don't know...think it's going to be decided right at the death.
-
I think Bristol will do them. Concentration has what's [fortunately] let Bristol down the past few weeks, but with it being a derby and hopefully gives them a bit of focus.
-
well yeah could happen but that's not really the points we want them to drop ideally. I have them dropping points against both bristol and derby but if they lose them the points go to our other promotion rivals
-
Provided that we get 3 points tomorrow, a Cardiff/Bristol draw wouldn't be a bad result. Cardiff then have to travel to Brentford while we play at home to QPR the following week. These next 2 games provide a great opportunity to wipe out the 4 point gap.
Interestingly, Wolves could do us a massive favour tomorrow by beating Fulham. They also have to go to Cardiff in April but I worry that they will already be promoted by then and will have the foot off the gas.
-
Along with losing at Villa Park, we could do with Wolves doing us many favours during the run in. They have to play Fulham, Cardiff and Derby. I’ll be happy to deal with the so called humiliation of coming in second to them but going up. Last time we finished second in Duvision 2 we spent the next 30 years or so in the top flight while they bounced around all over the place, back to their rightful state of being inferior to us.
-
I wish i was as confident as some on here. While i can see us not losing that much, it's the draws that will kill you. Either way in the next 6 games, we'd be aiming at 4 points (goal difference willing) more than cardiff get to be above them so....
bristol c 1
brentford away 1
barnsley 3
birmingham3
derby away 0
burton3
So a guesstimate i make that 11 points, meaning we'd need 15. Obviously getting above them with 7 games to go isn't essential but we'd certainly need to be in striking distance to take advantage of them with their hard run in April and beat them of course. Plus we have to hope the other teams around us don't do anything decent in the same period. I don't know...think it's going to be decided right at the death.
Time to get above them will be mid April. They have Sheffield United on April 2nd, Wolves on 7th and then us the following Tuesday.
We have Reading and Norwich in the run up to that so it's possible we could make up the four points in those two games.
-
I wish i was as confident as some on here. While i can see us not losing that much, it's the draws that will kill you. Either way in the next 6 games, we'd be aiming at 4 points (goal difference willing) more than cardiff get to be above them so....
bristol c 1
brentford away 1
barnsley 3
birmingham3
derby away 0
burton3
So a guesstimate i make that 11 points, meaning we'd need 15. Obviously getting above them with 7 games to go isn't essential but we'd certainly need to be in striking distance to take advantage of them with their hard run in April and beat them of course. Plus we have to hope the other teams around us don't do anything decent in the same period. I don't know...think it's going to be decided right at the death.
Time to get above them will be mid April. They have Sheffield United on April 2nd, Wolves on 7th and then us the following Tuesday.
We have Reading and Norwich in the run up to that so it's possible we could make up the four points in those two games.
Or make up the 4 points now and go a further 4 points ahead in April.
-
That's just greedy though.
-
Knowing us it will be the other way round...we'll fall 8 points behind and then just fail to claw it back by the last game.
-
We could yet be grateful to the shambles that is Small Heath for somehow getting themselves together to hammer Cardiff. 3-0 I think it was.
-
1-0.
They play them away in a few weeks.
-
Huge win today.
70 points needs to be the aim by end of Wolves match.
-
Given the Wolves result can we change the title of this thread to league winning maths?!
Believe!
-
Given the Wolves result can we change the title of this thread to league winning maths?!
Believe!
I agree.
It could happen.
-
If Wolves somehow managed another 2002 it would be very funny after their small time "mind the gap" nonsense.
-
They will be shitting it about Cardiff's game. Could be a six point gap after three winless games. More than enough time left for a hilarious implosion.
Although I want Cardiff to lose, naturally. Let Wolves fuck it up of their own volition.
-
No chance I'd want Cardiff to win on the off chance we could catch Wolves.
They've hit the wall a bit but only need another 5 wins so it's still going to happen with home games against Reading, Burton, Hull....and SHA.
-
We will not catch Wolves.
-
Fulham the team to watch at the moment.
-
Fulham the team to watch at the moment.
If Fulham click away, they'll be difficult to fend off. Need Rowett to do his team a big favour next week.
-
It’s a 4 way shoot out for second
Fulham Cardiff Derby and us.
It’s going to be tight.
-
Fulham have clicked. But all runs come to an end and they still need 10 more wins.
If they do that fair play, but they're soft arses away from home.
-
Fulham's remaining away games:
Derby
Preston
Norwich
Sheff Weds
Millwall
SHA
They won't be winning all of those. SHA away on the final day is amusing me though, let's hope they don't rest their first 11 like Huddersfield did.
-
I definitely think Fulham are the main threat
Cardiff have tough fixtures
Derby are falling away
We could do with Fulham having some of the bad luck with injuries we’ve been having, starting with Sessegnon
-
Its all getting a bit exciting isn't it! 4 teams each equally can be shite on their day. Derby seem to be the most fragile at the moment with Fulham coming on the rails. Warnock has only ever got one team promoted to the premiership. We should be ok with a 4 point cushion from Fulham...
-
I definitely think Fulham are the main threat
Cardiff have tough fixtures
Derby are falling away
We could do with Fulham having some of the bad luck with injuries we’ve been having, starting with Sessegnon
With luck Sessegnon’s balls will drop and he’ll have a terrible outbreak of acne.
-
We could do with some Prem clubs to start sniffing around Sessegnon to turn his head before the season's out.
-
Its all getting a bit exciting isn't it! 4 teams each equally can be shite on their day. Derby seem to be the most fragile at the moment with Fulham coming on the rails. Warnock has only ever got one team promoted to the premiership. We should be ok with a 4 point cushion from Fulham...
4 points? Bloody hell that doesn’t seem big to me at all. It’s not like any of the top sides aren’t consistent enough to win every week. There’ll be plenty of ups and downs for us all
-
We need to win the next 2 before the Wolverhampton Wonderbras come to VP.
-
If we're anything like full strength for the Wolves game I can see Villa winning comfortably. A couple of injuries for them and there's mediocre back-up to call on.
-
We need to win the next 2 before the Wolverhampton Wonderbras come to VP.
And they need to lose theirs.
-
I definitely think Fulham are the main threat
Cardiff have tough fixtures
Derby are falling away
We could do with Fulham having some of the bad luck with injuries we’ve been having, starting with Sessegnon
With luck Sessegnon’s balls will drop and he’ll have a terrible outbreak of acne.
If we go up and Fulham don't we need to sign him.
Unbelievable talent.
-
Sessegnon is not 18 yet so huge potential and I think he will be captured City or Chelsea to add to their speculative elite talent pool.
-
It’s a 4 way shoot out for second
Fulham Cardiff Derby and us.
It’s going to be tight.
NO. Second is between us and Cardiff<FULLSTOP>
-
Wolves have only won 3 of their last 8 league games, W3 D3 L2. Sadly even that kind of form for the rest of the season will probably be enough for them.
-
You're right, but least it's making their ring pieces twitch.
-
If we keep winning, we don't need to look at what anyone else is doing. If we catch Wolves or not. We keep winning we won't have to worry about playoffs and our season objective will have been accomplished.
-
Sessegnon is not 18 yet so huge potential and I think he will be captured City or Chelsea to add to their speculative elite talent pool.
I thiiiink I am right in saying he has some kind of pre-contract agreement with Spurs... Probably a Danny Rose replacement/competition as Rose hasn't looked very happy there this season. But yes he's fantastic.
Something that probably deserves a thread of its own are the players from teams around us (Derby/Fulham/Cardiff/Bristol etc) that I'd want us to pinch on the way up. Lawrence from Derby and Cairney at Fulham would be two. The latter is probably due a PL move
-
You're right, but least it's making their ring pieces twitch.
The ring pieces of wolves...only on H&V.
-
NO. Second is between us and Cardiff<FULLSTOP>
and Wolves
-
We've taken a point more than Fulham over the last 10 games and six more than Wolves.
If that points accumulation continues they'd win the league on 96, 3 points ahead of us.
Fulham's excellent run leaves them on 88, but you'd be surprised if there wasn't a 3-4 game blip in there.
Cardiff would finish on 81 points.
I think it's useful to see that Fulham, who have been on a good run beyond those 10 games without a blip, would still need to improve to hit 90 points.
It would suggest perhaps 8 more wins might be overkill.
-
A fact I saw yesterday sums up how inconsistent and poor this league is. Bristol City have won once since Boxing Day but are still in the play offs!
We need Cardiff to have one bad result, starting today, and hopefully a blip will follow. Next weekend is interesting as we have QPR at home whilst Cardiff have a very tricky game at Brentford and Derby and Fulham play each other.
-
Whilst it would be nice for Wolves to implode,I can’t see it, but it would be great to get a bit closer to see them start twitching. Let’s hope Bristol City get back on track today as well.
Next weekend I think
Villa - Win
Cardiff - Draw
Fulham/Derby - Draw
Wolves - Win
-
Cardiff never play well but keep grinding out wins. They don't look like faltering.
-
A fact I saw yesterday sums up how inconsistent and poor this league is. Bristol City have won once since Boxing Day but are still in the play offs!
We need Cardiff to have one bad result, starting today, and hopefully a blip will follow. Next weekend is interesting as we have QPR at home whilst Cardiff have a very tricky game at Brentford and Derby and Fulham play each other.
I don’t think it’s poor, it’s just competitive. A bit like the old First Division was like years back before the money took over.
-
Since we went second Cardiff have won four from four. Before that they had stumbled so just got to hope it happens again. We have to win the upcoming games against QPR, Sunderland, Bolton, Hull, Reading. Be great if we can get something off Wolves as well. Lots of potential pitfalls in last six I think so I want us to be in front by then.
-
I wish i was as confident as some on here. While i can see us not losing that much, it's the draws that will kill you. Either way in the next 6 games, we'd be aiming at 4 points (goal difference willing) more than cardiff get to be above them so....
bristol c 1
brentford away 1
barnsley 3
birmingham3
derby away 0
burton3
So a guesstimate i make that 11 points, meaning we'd need 15. Obviously getting above them with 7 games to go isn't essential but we'd certainly need to be in striking distance to take advantage of them with their hard run in April and beat them of course. Plus we have to hope the other teams around us don't do anything decent in the same period. I don't know...think it's going to be decided right at the death.
well that's two points extra cardiff have that we could have done without - so much for my prediction. Still we won so keeping up with them, and sort of puts Bristol C out of the reckoning barring a collapse from us. We go again......
-
Cardiff never play well but keep grinding out wins. They don't look like faltering.
We probably didn’t when we won 7 in 7. Lots of things change quickly in this division. We’ll be in the mix right until the end, I’d imagine.
-
Cardiff are the team to beat for second place, we need to get past them before they come to Villa park. Their next 3 home games are vs Barnsley, Small health & Burton. Hopefully one of these in fighting for their lives can pull a surprise.
We'll need another run of 7 wins if we want that second place.
-
I’ve never liked Cardiff but they’re fast becoming one of my most hated non local teams, just behind the barcodes.
-
I’ve never liked Cardiff but they’re fast becoming one of my most hated non local teams, just behind the barcodes.
I've no firm feelings about Cardiff either way. But I loathe their manager and I always have. Colin fucking Wanker.
-
Bottom line is they're 2nd. Now you don't get to the final week of Feb in 2nd place if you're crap or fluking it, so the chance of their form dropping is pretty unlikely barring major injuries. Still think April is our best chance because then they have 3 games where a team in 2nd place could expect to drop points. Just have to make sure we're near enough to take advantage.
-
Well we did the only thing we can do this weekend and won. Two winnable fixtures coming up, let's look after those and get six points.
Wolves might be feeling a tad more pressure.
-
Still totally ignoring Wolves at the moment. If in 3 games time they've lost them all after playing us and we've won all ours, they will come into the equation
-
Cardiff never play well but keep grinding out wins. They don't look like faltering.
Cardiff are on a great run, but they've been beaten by the likes of QPR and Bolton. I fancy Brentford to do them next week.
-
I think I'll literally piss myself if Wolves blow it from here.
-
I think I'll literally piss myself if Wolves blow it from here.
And me, if only for some of the smug arseholes that have rang WM.
-
To match Brighton and Newcastle last season we needed at least 71 points after 34 games. Only wolves has managed to do this exceeding the target by 2 points.
Some of the early pacesetters have fallen short (even Cardiff despite their recent form) allowing Fulham, Derby and ourselves (on the back of 7 consecutive wins) to get back into the mix. Essentially I still think we're playing for 2nd place behind Wolves. Brighton finished as runners up last season on 93 points (This is still achievable for us but unlikely). They finished the season with 22 points from their last 12 games which included a 5 game winning sequence (winning 7 altogether). If we do something similar (particularly another winning sequence of at least 5 games)we would end up on 85 points which may be enough to secure auto promotion, especially if Cardiff fall away (89 points is the average for 2nd place, I believe). We need to be positive going forwards.
-
I’ve never really gone in for estimating the final set of points we need
Isn’t it more telling to look at the points gap as things stand?
-
We should be able to close the gap next two. QPR at home and Sunderland away while Cardiff have Brentford away which is a very tough fixture (don't know who they have the next midweek).
Would be disappointed if the gap is still four points by the time we play Wolves.
-
We should be able to close the gap next two. QPR at home and Sunderland away while Cardiff have Brentford away which is a very tough fixture (don't know who they have the next midweek).
Would be disappointed if the gap is still four points by the time we play Wolves.
They have very mixed fixtures, next 3 at home are seemingly easy. Some tough seats thought.
Next eight...
Brentford A
Barnsley H
Birmingham H
Derby A
Burton H
Sheffield United A
Wolves H
Villa A
-
I’d say that they’ve got quite a few winnable games coming up. Based on earlier in the thread that must mean they have a tough run in
-
I’d say that they’ve got quite a few winnable games coming up. Based on earlier in the thread that must mean they have a tough run in
Predicting results is very difficult, if it was easy we’d all make fortunes. I can’t get Villa’s correct never mind any other team. Playing teams at the bottom in the run in can prove tricky in this league.
-
Sessegnon is not 18 yet so huge potential and I think he will be captured City or Chelsea to add to their speculative elite talent pool.
I thiiiink I am right in saying he has some kind of pre-contract agreement with Spurs... Probably a Danny Rose replacement/competition as Rose hasn't looked very happy there this season. But yes he's fantastic.
Something that probably deserves a thread of its own are the players from teams around us (Derby/Fulham/Cardiff/Bristol etc) that I'd want us to pinch on the way up. Lawrence from Derby and Cairney at Fulham would be two. The latter is probably due a PL move
I have it from a very good source that there is no chance of Tom Cairney coming to Villa whilst we have our present manager - He was the reason that Cairney left Hull City/Tigers. And as we would only go for him if we were to be promoted and therefore we would be highly unlikely to change our manager, he's not coming anywhere near VP unless playing for an opposition team.
-
To match Brighton and Newcastle last season we needed at least 71 points after 34 games. Only wolves has managed to do this exceeding the target by 2 points.
Some of the early pacesetters have fallen short (even Cardiff despite their recent form) allowing Fulham, Derby and ourselves (on the back of 7 consecutive wins) to get back into the mix. Essentially I still think we're playing for 2nd place behind Wolves. Brighton finished as runners up last season on 93 points...
They did. But they only needed 86 to claim second spot (Reading finished 3rd on 85).
-
I went to the Fulham/Wolves game - they were very ordinary. I wonder if they're going to try harder when they come to VP lol.
-
A 12 game season. None of them are going to be easy at squeeky bum time. Derby, Cardiff and Wolves all to come to VP. Nervy but great excitement.
-
We need to factor in the 3 points we'll have deducted when the FA overturn yesterday's result in response to the letter of complaint from that Wednesday fan.
-
I’ve never liked Cardiff but they’re fast becoming one of my most hated non local teams, just behind the barcodes.
I've no firm feelings about Cardiff either way. But I loathe their manager and I always have. Colin fucking Wanker.
I spend most my time in S Wales and the South west and fair to say nobody outside Cardiff has anything but hate for the scummers. They’re one of those think they’re better than they are/grubby/jealous of their far better neighbours teams. Welsh bluenoses basically.
The Colin W connection has cemented how I feel about them although to be fair it’s looking increasingly like he’s going to get them over the line in the kind of style we though we were paying Bruce to do.
-
Before the international break these are the games;
Us - QPR (H), Sunderland (A), Wolves (H), Bolton (A)
Cardiff - Brentford (A), Barnsley (H), Blues (H), Derby (A)
Derby - Fulham (H), QPR (A), Forest (A), Cardiff (H)
Fulham - Derby (A), Sheff United (H), Preston (A), QPR (H)
-
Before the international break these are the games;
Us - QPR (H), Sunderland (A), Wolves (H), Bolton (A)
Cardiff - Brentford (A), Barnsley (H), Blues (H), Derby (A)
Derby - Fulham (H), QPR (A), Forest (A), Cardiff (H)
Fulham - Derby (A), Sheff United (H), Preston (A), QPR (H)
We simply have to win next weekend. When are Grealish and AA due back ?
-
Brice was hoping they’ll be ready for qpr
I don’t think it’s a safe bet though
Wouldn’t be surprised if Albert is but jack isn’t
-
Can see us on 71 points going into the next break. Given their home games think Cardiff will remain slightly ahead but not too concerned about that as they then have a very tough run when things start up again.
-
We need to factor in the 3 points we'll have deducted when the FA overturn yesterday's result in response to the letter of complaint from that Wednesday fan.
Would it be just straight 3 points deduction or a further fine of 6 points for violently upsetting their fans? I can't see us making play-offs if so :-[
-
Before the international break these are the games;
Us - QPR (H), Sunderland (A), Wolves (H), Bolton (A)
Cardiff - Brentford (A), Barnsley (H), Blues (H), Derby (A)
Derby - Fulham (H), QPR (A), Forest (A), Cardiff (H)
Fulham - Derby (A), Sheff United (H), Preston (A), QPR (H)
We should be looking for nothing less than 9 points.
Cardiff: 7 before they play Derby. There's good news for us from them Vs Derby regardless.
Derby: Fulham is another 'good news whatever happens' game for us, as is their game Vs Cardiff.
Fulham: if they're still on the same run after those four then fair play to them. They'd go up deservedly.
-
Both Fulham and Derby need 3 additional wins to overtake Cardiff so auto pro is dead in the water for them. The only team that can stop Cardiff is at B6.
-
We need to factor in the 3 points we'll have deducted when the FA overturn yesterday's result in response to the letter of complaint from that Wednesday fan.
Would it be just straight 3 points deduction or a further fine of 6 points for violently upsetting their fans? I can't see us making play-offs if so :-[
If the league see sense and award SW all the points they've lost due to referees being paid off they will be top of the league by some margin.
-
Cardiff are really starting to piss me off now.
-
Both Fulham and Derby need 3 additional wins to overtake Cardiff so auto pro is dead in the water for them. The only team that can stop Cardiff is at B6.
Fulham have just beaten us and Wolves on the bounce. They have the momentum and I wouldn't be surprised if they overhaul Cardiff. Question is can we get on a similar run and stay ahead of them. Don't fancy playing them in the playoffs.
-
All teams will dread playing Villa in the playoffs.
-
All teams will dread playing Villa in the playoffs.
Well said mate 👏
It would be kinder if we just get auto promotion.
-
I agree, I'm not sure my heart could take the playoffs!
-
7 more wins and we'd be very close to automatic promotion. Looking at what we have left I think it's very possible. One of them will need to be against Cardiff of course.
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
-
7 more wins and we'd be very close to automatic promotion. Looking at what we have left I think it's very possible. One of them will need to be against Cardiff of course.
This is more or less where I am although I think it may need 8 wins. Looking at ours and Cardiff's 5 fixtures in March, I can't see much change in the 4 point gap (if we get closer then it will be a bonus). April is THE month and every game will turn into the tense "cup final" type of match. If we could somehow get another 3 points in front of Derby, they could be out of it by the time we play them and field reserves in their game against us, in preparation for the play offs. All "ifs buts and maybes" but I haven't stopped thinking about every possible twist and turn for the past few weeks.
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
What's easy about this:
Derby away- Derby lost form but still need points for top 6 and they don't lose many at Pride Park.
Burton home- Yeah I'll give you that one. Should be a comfortable three points.
Sheffield United away- Warnock's old club still battling for play offs. Won't be one for the purists, looks a draw to me.
Wolves home- Difficult to call. If Wolves get over this slump I don't think they'll lose.
Us away- Enough said.
Norwich away- Norwich got nothing to play for but Carrow road still tough venue to win at. We've got to go there aswell so get the feeling whoever wins this fixture will get second.
That's their run from Mid March to Mid April so decent chunk of their run in. I'd say if we're not second by end of that (we have Leeds at home when they have Norwich) we probably won't get second.
-
Sorry, I shouldn't have said "run-ins", it's the next few games I worry about. They have shite on toast every week. We need to keep winning or they could be out of sight by the time the tougher fixtures arrive.
Brentford, Barnsley and Small Heath = nine points.
-
Brentford away isn't easy. Can see them drawing that and us winning so down to two points.
-
Brentford away isn't easy. Can see them drawing that and us winning so down to two points.
You could also argue that playing a team fighting for dear life at this stage of the season is more difficult than playing a team mid to low table.
Out of Barnsley, Burton and Blues (their next three games), it's not beyond the realms of improbability for one of those teams to get some form of result there.
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
What, like losing their best two players for about three months in the run up to Christmas?
-
Both Fulham and Derby need 3 additional wins to overtake Cardiff so auto pro is dead in the water for them. The only team that can stop Cardiff is at B6.
Fulham have just beaten us and Wolves on the bounce. They have the momentum and I wouldn't be surprised if they overhaul Cardiff. Question is can we get on a similar run and stay ahead of them. Don't fancy playing them in the playoffs.
Me neither. The only side I wouldn't want us to face in we had to try and get promoted by the play-offs. We'll just have to do it by finishing second.
-
Fulham are 8 points behind Cardiff. That would mean that they need to win 2, if not 3 more games than Cardiff from the last 12 to overtake them. Not impossible it would take an excellent Fulham run, alongside a poor Cardiff run for it to happen. Whilst not writing Fulham off yet, they have quite a long way to go to reach 2nd.
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
What, like losing their best two players for about three months in the run up to Christmas?
Every club has injuries, but;
Kodjia: Aug-Sept & Oct-may
Terry: Nov-Jan
Grealish: Aug-Dec & Feb-Mar
Jedinak: Aug-Dec
Adomah: Feb-Mar
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
What, like losing their best two players for about three months in the run up to Christmas?
Every club has injuries, but;
Kodjia: Aug-Sept & Oct-may
Terry: Nov-Jan
Grealish: Aug-Dec & Feb-Mar
Jedinak: Aug-Dec
Adomah: Feb-Mar
Exactly, so maybe we should stop trying to turn ours in to an excuse. If anything, the fact we've had so many good players injured shows how strong our squad is - I doubt there's a team in the division who's best five players are as good as the ones you've listed there.
-
I think it's fair when comparing us with the Dingles. They've had an excellent run of fitness, unlike much of the top 6.
If they'd have lost their best players, like we have, and for as long as we have, I'd be very surprised if they were 10 clear.
-
Looking at run-ins, Cardiff have some fucking easy games. Could really do with them bottling it and/or having an injury crisis like we've had to put up with all bloody season.
What, like losing their best two players for about three months in the run up to Christmas?
Every club has injuries, but;
Kodjia: Aug-Sept & Oct-may
Terry: Nov-Jan
Grealish: Aug-Dec & Feb-Mar
Jedinak: Aug-Dec
Adomah: Feb-Mar
Exactly, so maybe we should stop trying to turn ours in to an excuse. If anything, the fact we've had so many good players injured shows how strong our squad is - I doubt there's a team in the division who's best five players are as good as the ones you've listed there.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to reference our injury situation. All clubs have injuries but losing our best player for an entire season and other most influential players (Terry, Grealish & Jedinak) for significant portions of the season seems pretty tough to me.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
-
I think it's fair when comparing us with the Dingles. They've had an excellent run of fitness, unlike much of the top 6.
If they'd have lost their best players, like we have, and for as long as we have, I'd be very surprised if they were 10 clear.
Wasn't Neves out on Saturday? Result, a 2-0 loss.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Truth be told, even Grealish wasn't that much of a miss back in August. Sure, lots of us were hoping he could start to fulfill his potential and saw this as a big season for him. The Jack we've just lost how is another player and would rightly be described as one of, if not, our most influential player. He's been an absolute joy to watch and I just hope he can quickly reach the same level on his return.
I thought Jedi was a massive loss. At least with Jedi in the side you knew where Bruce would play him. The confusion during his absence of replacing him with Hourihane and Whelan did neither us or the players any favours.
-
Fulham are 8 points behind Cardiff. That would mean that they need to win 2, if not 3 more games than Cardiff from the last 12 to overtake them. Not impossible it would take an excellent Fulham run, alongside a poor Cardiff run for it to happen. Whilst not writing Fulham off yet, they have quite a long way to go to reach 2nd.
Well
I am writing off Fulham. They are too far behind Cardiff.
-
Seen a stat on Twitter that shows how shite the top flight is beyond the top six.
After 17 games Burnley were 6th, a point ahead of 7th. 11 games later, having not won in that time, they're 7th.
-
Fulham are 8 points behind Cardiff. That would mean that they need to win 2, if not 3 more games than Cardiff from the last 12 to overtake them. Not impossible it would take an excellent Fulham run, alongside a poor Cardiff run for it to happen. Whilst not writing Fulham off yet, they have quite a long way to go to reach 2nd.
Well
I am writing off Fulham. They are too far behind Cardiff.
I think you'd have to say that. If 10 points is too big a ask for us to caych wobbling Wolves, then I am not sure how Fulham can pull back 8 points on consistent Cardiff, no matter how good they are.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Really? Aren't we beyond that daft name now for our captain who has been impeccable all season?
-
We need 4 wins from the next 6, I do not like our run in.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Really? Aren't we beyond that daft name now for our captain who has been impeccable all season?
No.
-
Just had a quick look at the table and a browse through our results. The following home games really stand out as poor performances and results:
Middlesbrough 0-0
Brentford 0-0
Sheff Weds 1-2
Sheff Utd 2-2 (when were 2-0 up and Jedinak had a nightmare)
Millwall 0-0
Preston 1-1 (bit lucky to get a draw on the night but could have won it at the end)
We can't afford many more of those type of results now and they could still end up costing us.
-
Just had a quick look at the table and a browse through our results. The following home games really stand out as poor performances and results:
Middlesbrough 0-0
Brentford 0-0
Sheff Weds 1-2
Sheff Utd 2-2 (when were 2-0 up and Jedinak had a nightmare)
Millwall 0-0
Preston 1-1 (bit lucky to get a draw on the night but could have won it at the end)
We can't afford many more of those type of results now and they could still end up costing us.
You missed Hull, opening game of the season.
Brentford and Millwall were both better on the day than we were and a draw was the most we deserved. The Boro game is the big one for me as we should have taken advantage of playing against 10 men, Then we cleared our own shot off the goal line and then we had a player unjustly sent off.
I think some of the aways balance it all out. There was nothing between Boro and ourselves in the away game yet we got the break and the 3 points. Both Sheffield teams had the better chances yet we walked away with the 3 points both times.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Really? Aren't we beyond that daft name now for our captain who has been impeccable all season?
No.
Yes exactly NO.
-
Did we have a daft name? You'll have to explain that one.
-
Did we have a daft name? You'll have to explain that one.
Some people who don't like John Terry decided they couldn't bring themselves to use his name on an internet forum so instead use the hilarious moniker 'Gerald Appleyard.' I would have hoped we were beyond that now given his fantastic service to us, but unfortunately it seems not.
-
Did we have a daft name? You'll have to explain that one.
Some people who don't like John Terry decided they couldn't bring themselves to use his name on an internet forum so instead use the hilarious moniker 'Gerald Appleyard.' I would have hoped we were beyond that now given his fantastic service to us, but unfortunately it seems not.
I am pretty sure the man himself wouldn't give a fuck either way so there is no need for you to be so defensive about it.
-
Did we have a daft name? You'll have to explain that one.
Some people who don't like John Terry decided they couldn't bring themselves to use his name on an internet forum so instead use the hilarious moniker 'Gerald Appleyard.' I would have hoped we were beyond that now given his fantastic service to us, but unfortunately it seems not.
I am pretty sure the man himself wouldn't give a fuck either way so there is no need for you to be so defensive about it.
You again? You love stalking me don't you?
-
Did we have a daft name? You'll have to explain that one.
Some people who don't like John Terry decided they couldn't bring themselves to use his name on an internet forum so instead use the hilarious moniker 'Gerald Appleyard.' I would have hoped we were beyond that now given his fantastic service to us, but unfortunately it seems not.
I am pretty sure the man himself wouldn't give a fuck either way so there is no need for you to be so defensive about it.
You again? You love stalking me don't you?
Turn it in, you crank. I post on lots of threads on here. I get that you don't like the Terry thing. Others still don't like him. Who cares? It's a bit silly when you leap to martyrdom though when all I am suggesting is I don't care either way and don't see it as something to get your knickers in a twist about.
Can you post on the Snodgrass thread next please. I will see you over there.....
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
(https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/comicbookguycharacter.jpg)
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
(https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/comicbookguycharacter.jpg)
That's what you fucking think. Look very carefully at the tree opposite your house......
-
Fuck me, Appleyard is in the tree!
-
You again? You love stalking me don't you?
That’s funny in an incredible way.
-
Ah well. In something we can all agree on, I spent two pages worth of effort for the next H+V taking the piss out of those bitter Olbiyun wankers.
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating that sticks in my mind.
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating and aggressive style that sticks in my mind.
Aggressive? Have you read anything you have ever posted? Self appointed moderation? I don't think that is true either, just like your daft stalker comment. What I don't understand is why you immediately jump on the defensive and take just about every opinion to the contrary to yours as some kind of personal attack. It is nuts, quite frankly.
You can hate me. Or my opinions. Or my posting style. Or what I write in the fanzine. Or my dress sense. Or the fact I have a big nose. It doesn't make one scintilla of a difference to my life.
But put the "woe is me, I am being picked on" horseshit back in the laptop.
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating that sticks in my mind.
I'm not sure how your criticising posters for saying "Gerald Appleyard" is any less a case of "self-appointed moderating" than CheltenhamLion's criticising one poster for being overly-defensive about Gerald Appleyard.
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating that sticks in my mind.
I'm not sure how your criticising posters for saying "Gerald Appleyard" is any less a csse of "self-appointed moderating" than CheltenhamLion's criticising one poster for being overly-defensive about Gerald Appleyard.
And Gerald doesn't care. He is up PWS's tree by all accounts.
-
At least we've got an exciting end of season for the right reasons. Some big home games to look forward to aswell.
Is the Upper Trinity open yet for the Wolves game? Haven't seen anything but thought it would be open by now.
-
He's up my bloody tree, that's alright with me.*
*One for the youngsters
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating and aggressive style that sticks in my mind.
Aggressive? Have you read anything you have ever posted? Self appointed moderation? I don't think that is true either, just like your daft stalker comment. What I don't understand is why you immediately jump on the defensive and take just about every opinion to the contrary to yours as some kind of personal attack. It is nuts, quite frankly.
You can hate me. Or my opinions. Or my posting style. Or what I write in the fanzine. Or my dress sense. Or the fact I have a big nose. It doesn't make one scintilla of a difference to my life.
But put the "woe is me, I am being picked on" horseshit back in the laptop.
Look, I couldn't give a fuck who you are or if your write for the magazine. My comment was hardly 'woe is me' was it? I just noted it's the second time you've jumped on one of my posts, both unjustified. I didn't bite last time when I felt you were pretty fucking unfair. You're obviously pretty familiar with my posts, hence my earlier comment. I'm was just mentioning that I've noticed it, that's all. Maybe if you ignore my posts and I'll certainly try to do the same with yours.
-
Just had a quick look at the table and a browse through our results. The following home games really stand out as poor performances and results:
Middlesbrough 0-0
Brentford 0-0
Sheff Weds 1-2
Sheff Utd 2-2 (when were 2-0 up and Jedinak had a nightmare)
Millwall 0-0
Preston 1-1 (bit lucky to get a draw on the night but could have won it at the end)
We can't afford many more of those type of results now and they could still end up costing us.
If we don't go up in second our poor start to the season will have cost us.
We started this season with one win in our first seven league games. Cardiff won their first five league games so we pretty much gave them a ten point head start so that's why it's been such a struggle to get infront of them.
When you look at the seasons they're having losing at Reading and drawing with Hull on the opening day look really poor results now and I felt that at the time.
I defend SB a lot but he shouldn't have persided over such a poor start considering he had most of last season and the summer to prepare us to hit the ground running. Stuff like Samba coming on as an emergency centre forward in the early games shouldn't have been happening.
-
Last time I can see Chelts replying to you was over a month ago.
Worst stalker ever.
I guess it's the self appointed moderating and aggressive style that sticks in my mind.
Aggressive? Have you read anything you have ever posted? Self appointed moderation? I don't think that is true either, just like your daft stalker comment. What I don't understand is why you immediately jump on the defensive and take just about every opinion to the contrary to yours as some kind of personal attack. It is nuts, quite frankly.
You can hate me. Or my opinions. Or my posting style. Or what I write in the fanzine. Or my dress sense. Or the fact I have a big nose. It doesn't make one scintilla of a difference to my life.
But put the "woe is me, I am being picked on" horseshit back in the laptop.
Look, I couldn't give a fuck who you are or if your write for the magazine. My comment was hardly 'woe is me' was it? I just noted it's the second time you've jumped on one of my posts, both unjustified. I didn't bite last time when I felt you were pretty fucking unfair. You're obviously pretty familiar with my posts, hence my earlier comment. I'm was just mentioning that I've noticed it, that's all. Maybe if you ignore my posts and I'll certainly try to do the same with yours.
Let's not. What did I say last time (and about what) that you thought was unfair? As far as I am concerned I "jumped" on nothing.
"Woe is me" is exactly how I would describe your comment. Accusing me of stalking you around threads (presumably because you think I am deliberately attempting to goad you) is myopic in the extreme. Cdbullyweefan and I are as far apart politically as Reagan and Stalin and I post far more frequently on what he comes up with. Fuck me, I have had some bitter battles with Percy on the Brexit thread at times.
I don't take it personally though. We just have different points of view and believe our own position on the matter is correct.
If you don't want me to lob the "Woe is me" card at you then reread your first sentence. How on earth is that supposed to come across? And you have the temerity to call me aggressive?
I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself before throwing around those kind of accusations.
-
So anyway, Bruce then, what a twat! He needs to go!
-
Where do you get this sort of shit from:
"What I don't understand is why you immediately jump on the defensive and take just about every opinion to the contrary to yours as some kind of personal attack."
That doesn't reflect my posting style at all. I can't ever recall calling someone out for a personal attack. I just happened to remember last time you commented on one of my posts it was exactly that (but this is the first time I mentioned it). And yet here you are again.
So as I suggested, let's just ignore each others posts hey?
-
I was hoping to read some carefully considered maths equations to give me an idea of our chances of getting promoted. All I found was a couple of sad children squabbling. grow up the pair of you and focus on the issue !
-
Returning to the maths. In an average year you need 86 points to get auto promotion from the Championship. With most of the challengers due to play each other, unless someone goes on an unprecedented run, we will average things out by taking points of each other. I would prefer to aim for 90, but suspect 86 would be enough this year.
As we have 63, 7 wins and a couple of draws and a couple of losses should get us second place.
As an optimist though, if we get Grealish and Albert back, I think we could do a lot better with the clear positivity around the team. Hopefully Wolves decline will continue and JT can at last pick up the real league trophy!
-
I wanted to get back to PWS's apple tree. I hope whoever is up there is paying Council Tax.
-
I was hoping to read some carefully considered maths equations to give me an idea of our chances of getting promoted. All I found was a couple of sad children squabbling. grow up the pair of you and focus on the issue !
Sorry sir. It wasn't me it was him.
-
I wanted to get back to PWS's apple tree. I hope whoever is up there is paying Council Tax.
With Appleyards rep I'm sure we should all be slightly concerned about him being somewhere full of birds.
-
The key will be beating Cardiff and Reading.
With QPR, Sunderland, Bolton, Hull, Reading and mid-table cigars on the beach sides like Norwich, Ipswich, Leeds and Millwall to play it may well be that we pick up 7 wins out of that lot and simply have to avoid defeat against Cardiff and Derby. Time will tell, but I think 8 more wins and a few draws would guarantee it, but that's probably overkill.
Let's beat QPR and see where the dust lies.
-
Sheffield United winning tonight is a good result for us. They have to play Fulham, Wolves and Cardiff. The longer they remain in contention for 6th place, the better it is for us.
-
I was hoping to read some carefully considered maths equations to give me an idea of our chances of getting promoted. All I found was a couple of sad children squabbling. grow up the pair of you and focus on the issue !
Sorry sir. It wasn't me it was him.
"I don't care what you think"
"OK, let's leave it there then?"
"No, we won't leave it there, do you know who I am? I've just written a 2 page spread about the Baggies"
"OK, let's just ignore each others posts then?"
-
Where do you get this sort of shit from:
"What I don't understand is why you immediately jump on the defensive and take just about every opinion to the contrary to yours as some kind of personal attack."
That doesn't reflect my posting style at all. I can't ever recall calling someone out for a personal attack. I just happened to remember last time you commented on one of my posts it was exactly that (but this is the first time I mentioned it). And yet here you are again.
So as I suggested, let's just ignore each others posts hey?
Personally I would find it regrettable if you ignored each other as this would inevitable deprive my good self an no doubt other like minded people of some much needed cheer during these hideous winter days.
That other geezer, Cheltenham whatever is clearly a bunny boiler of the highest order and could probably give Sharon Stone lessons. He’s also sartorially challenged and over-indulged in the nasal department.
You do, however, give him a run for his money in terms of your self aggrandising, paranoid stylings and an ability to take offence at the drop of a hat. It does make for entertaining reading.
Also, it alleviates pressure on the budget of mental health services. Do keep it up.
-
Mediation would help.
-
Madferret62 personally I would find it easier if you could quote properly so that I don't have to work out where you started and the other poster finished. It will alleviate pressure on my minuscule brain.
-
Bunny boiler? Don't you mean Glenn Close rather than Sharon Stone?
We wouldn't want Cheltenhamlion flashing his minge in here.
-
Bunny boiler? Don't you mean Glenn Close rather than Sharon Stone?
We wouldn't want Cheltenhamlion flashing his minge in here.
Well, not again anyway.
-
Bunny boiler? Don't you mean Glenn Close rather than Sharon Stone?
We wouldn't want Cheltenhamlion flashing his minge in here.
Well, not again anyway.
I was taught a fine lesson last time I did that when it was this cold. A frozen beaver is not a pretty sight.
-
Derby v Fulham and Brentford v Cardiff this weekend. Potential dropped points there I think
-
A draw with Derby and Fulham seems the likely result. I'm hopeful Brentford can do Cardiff.
Main thing is we win.
-
The key will be beating Cardiff and Reading.
With QPR, Sunderland, Bolton, Hull, Reading and mid-table cigars on the beach sides like Norwich, Ipswich, Leeds and Millwall to play it may well be that we pick up 7 wins out of that lot and simply have to avoid defeat against Cardiff and Derby. Time will tell, but I think 8 more wins and a few draws would guarantee it, but that's probably overkill.
Let's beat QPR and see where the dust lies.
I think it might take an exceptional run of results like that to get us up automatically to be honest, especially as we are sitting four points off it.
-
I disagree. 86 will likely be enough, but I would prefer 90 odd and be comfortable.
-
The key will be beating Cardiff and Reading.
With QPR, Sunderland, Bolton, Hull, Reading and mid-table cigars on the beach sides like Norwich, Ipswich, Leeds and Millwall to play it may well be that we pick up 7 wins out of that lot and simply have to avoid defeat against Cardiff and Derby. Time will tell, but I think 8 more wins and a few draws would guarantee it, but that's probably overkill.
Let's beat QPR and see where the dust lies.
I think it might take an exceptional run of results like that to get us up automatically to be honest, especially as we are sitting four points off it.
forget 4 points off anything - we are 10 points off the Dingles with them to come to us
Cardiff have of note
Blues at Home - tough one to want to lose - so lets hope the inbreds miraculously get a draw although I bet their fans hope for a loss (sad twats)
Sheff U away - not easy
Derby away - draw would be good
Wolves home - draw would be good
Us away - hopefully we get the result
Norwich away - never easy
The n some right relegation fodder including Reading on last day
This is doable
-
Ads,exactly my thoughts!
-
I disagree. 86 will likely be enough, but I would prefer 90 odd and be comfortable.
Not sure I would want to be going to Millwall needing a win on last day
-
i'm not sure I'd want to go to Millwall full stop.
-
We'll do it at Ipswich. 5,000 all in the stand along the side.
-
Sheffield United winning tonight is a good result for us. They have to play Fulham, Wolves and Cardiff. The longer they remain in contention for 6th place, the better it is for us.
Hadn't thought of it like that. Good point. I was thinking of the gap to 7th staying at 11 points but this is more long term thinking.
-
We need to go at 2 points a game for the rest of the season to go up automatically. Tough but doable.
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Yep. Kod has been a tough one although arguably a relatively easy position to replace with a loanee.
Grealish is funny though because nobody was counting him on the start of the season but he has improved so much he made himself indispensable before getting crocked. If anything it shows up our poor transfer policy and lack of preparedness going into the season that we struggle so much without him and the likes of Lansbury don’t get a kick.
-
I know that Angela is a bit of a poser, but does anyone know what he has done, said to have dropped so far down the reckoning that Onomah gets picked ahead of him when to me he was the obvious replacement for Jack?
-
The vast majority of us would have predicted before the season started that Jedi and Appleyard would miss a fair few games. Kod and Grealish have been the tough ones.
Yep. Kod has been a tough one although arguably a relatively easy position to replace with a loanee.
Grealish is funny though because nobody was counting him on the start of the season but he has improved so much he made himself indispensable before getting crocked. If anything it shows up our poor transfer policy and lack of preparedness going into the season that we struggle so much without him and the likes of Lansbury don’t get a kick.
He does stand up..?
-
Ads,exactly my thoughts!
Ads you created this account didn’t you?
-
We need to go at 2 points a game for the rest of the season to go up automatically. Tough but doable.
You are sartorially challenged so your opinion is of no value.
-
We need to go at 2 points a game for the rest of the season to go up automatically. Tough but doable.
You are sartorially challenged so your opinion is of no value.
Are you stalking him?
-
No I am stalking you and you don't even take off your long johns at night never mind drawing your curtains. >:(
-
We'll do it at Ipswich. 5,000 all in the stand along the side.
Hopefully with Alan Brazil in attendance on the other. And Mick Mills, the weasel.
-
No I am stalking you and you don't even take off your long johns at night never mind drawing your curtains. >:(
And I thought wearing a dressing gown with no trousers was edgy in this weather. Anyway, what thread are you on next?
-
Is VAR going to be used in the play off final?? It's a massive match so imagine they may use it. On plus side went okay in league cup final when used but after yesterday would make match even more nail biting. Let's hope promotion happens automatically.
-
VAR in our last League Cup Final would have made a difference-ask Gabby!
-
Fulham do the business again today at Derby. Their last few fixtures look easier than ours/Cardiff and Derby who maybe can be discounted from the race for second now.
Fulham do have Sheffield Utd, Preston, a derby against QPR who will hopefully be up for it and Norwich away in their next four so we'd really want them to slip up in some of those. After that, in April they just have one tricky game on paper, another West London derby against Brentford but at the Cottage where they've been very strong.
-
Been saying for a while that Fulham are the main threat
Several people thought their fixtures looked tough. The problem is, nobody is that good in this league. A better hope may be that they’ve peaked too early.
-
Our main threat is Cardiff. Those below us are irrelevant.
-
The team in 3rd place must be excellent to have more points from less games than this sensational Fulham side.
-
Our main threat is Cardiff. Those below us are irrelevant.
I agree with this but come next Tuesday, Fulham could also be above us. They are on an incredible run.
-
They could, but it's unlikely.
-
One thing is for sure, if we don't go up automatic I don't fancy playing Fulham in the play offs.
Everyone was saying they've got tough games but they've just beat us, Wolves and Derby in their last three games. Can't see them having a bad run.
-
And before that drew with Bolton.
If we played them in the play offs it would depend on how many we stuck past them at Villa Park, given how mince we are down there for getting a result.
-
Been saying for a while that Fulham are the main threat
No not IMO. They have put in a super run that must end soon and they are still 1 point behind us and we have a game in hand.
-
And before that drew with Bolton.
If we played them in the play offs it would depend on how many we stuck past them at Villa Park, given how mince we are down there for getting a result.
We won't meet them in the knock out stages. we'll finish 3rd & 4th in that scenario meaning we'd be kept apart.
And they also drew at Bristol inbetween beating us & Wolves.
They have Sheff U at home and Preston away next. neither can be taken lightly. Hopefully some points to be dropped there.
-
Based on should win matches
Cardiff 6 wins and 6 draws =91 +29 Gd
Fulham 7 wins and 4 draws =87 +28 Gd
Derby 4 wins and 6 draws =81
means we need 8 wins and 4 draws to equal 91 points and +29 GD
so we need to beat Wolves, Cardiff and Derby to mess it up
-
Well look after our own results and they can do what they want, it won't matter.
-
Based on should win matches
Cardiff 6 wins and 6 draws =91 +29 Gd
Fulham 7 wins and 4 draws =87 +28 Gd
Derby 4 wins and 6 draws =81
means we need 8 wins and 4 draws to equal 91 points and +29 GD
so we need to beat Wolves, Cardiff and Derby to mess it up
I think at least one of those four teams will lose a game between now and the end of the season.
-
Based on should win matches
Cardiff 6 wins and 6 draws =91 +29 Gd
Fulham 7 wins and 4 draws =87 +28 Gd
Derby 4 wins and 6 draws =81
means we need 8 wins and 4 draws to equal 91 points and +29 GD
so we need to beat Wolves, Cardiff and Derby to mess it up
I think at least one of those four teams will lose a game between now and the end of the season.
Derby most likely to be that team
-
Based on should win matches
Cardiff 6 wins and 6 draws =91 +29 Gd
Fulham 7 wins and 4 draws =87 +28 Gd
Derby 4 wins and 6 draws =81
means we need 8 wins and 4 draws to equal 91 points and +29 GD
so we need to beat Wolves, Cardiff and Derby to mess it up
I think at least one of those four teams will lose a game between now and the end of the season.
Derby most likely to be that team
Hopefully. I think we all will though.
-
They'll all lose matches, as they all have done.
-
They'll all lose matches, as they all have done.
Yes. While it feels like it's virtually the end of the season, there's actually the best part of a quarter of it left. Everyone will drop points.
-
No chance Villa, Cardiff and Fulham will all reach 90 points.
-
There's no point trying to second guess what will happen otherwise we'd never have drawn at home to Boro, Brentford, Milwall, etc. This division throws up stupid results and over the last 6 games Fulham are only one point better off. So despite everyone shitting the bed, we're actually keeping the pace ourselves. Milwall, who have the same form as the mighty Fulham, failed to beat the crappest team in the division today. Ultimately, it will boil down to the points we get out of Wolves, Cardiff and Derby. Come out of those ok and you'd fancy us to stick another 6+ wins out of the others. Everyone just needs to hold their nerve.
-
Wolves will beat us, too much pace in their team for our defence. Makes the Sunderland game even bigger imo, we HAVE to win that.
-
error, can be deleted.
-
Wolves will beat us, too much pace in their team for our defence. Makes the Sunderland game even bigger imo, we HAVE to win that.
No they don't. Pace didn't beat us, space did. We afforded Neves room second half as he dropped deeper to allow the other midfield runners space in behind, as one of our two had to close him. He's a good player and he punished us. But we lost the game second half in midfield because of better game management.
-
Wolves game will be a draw I think. I'm not too concerned about that one. It's not beating Sunderland or QPR that are the results that would cost us second.
-
Any team looking to go up (or stay up, for that matter) should recognise the danger of "should win" games. Beating Wolves would be great but unless it comes between wins against Sunderland and QPR it will probably be a phyrric victory. That's what Cardiff are doing really well and what Fulham aren't really doing as yet.
-
Any team looking to go up (or stay up, for that matter) should recognise the danger of "should win" games. Beating Wolves would be great but unless it comes between wins against Sunderland and QPR it will probably be a phyrric victory. That's what Cardiff are doing really well and what Fulham aren't really doing as yet.
Lets hope Cardiff don't do it well this month. They have three pretty easy "should win" games.
-
If you look at form of top 8 since Christmas Day, ie last 11 or 12 games depending on postponements :
Fulham - 30 points from 12
Us - 25 from 11
Cardiff - 20 from 11
Boro - 20 from 12
Wolves - 19 from 11
Preston - 18 from 12
Sheff Utd - 17 from 11
Derby - 16 from 12
Bristol C - 13 from 12
there are other teams on good from - Millwall 23 from 12 games, but they are too far behind.
-
Thing is, we've got 3 away games this month. All against teams struggling at the bottom but all who will be fighting for their lives. As i said on a earlier post, we have to be in striking difference by the end of the month to take advantage of cardiff's perceived hard run of games in April. Now if you're a team in 3rd, you'd expect to pick up 7 points minimum from those games. Add in the qpr game and wolves and you'd hope for 11 points overall minimum or 74 points at the end of March (maybe 71 if the qpr game hasn't been played). Obviously that target relies on Cardiff playing like a team in 2nd place. 71 or 74 points at that stage would be on target and not exactly incredible form so if we're under the 73 point barrier (5 games played) or 70 point barrier (4 games played) by then i'd say we've blown it and don't deserve to go up
-
Gonna have to win the next two to stay in it. We will be, at least, eight points behind Cardiff going into the Wolves game so that'll be a real test of bottle. You can guarantee they'll try a lot harder against us than they did against Fulham.
-
How will be at least 8 points behind Cardiff before the Wolves game ?
-
Not sure unless Cardiff are due to be given at least another 4pts between now and next weekend...or do they get at least 7pts if they beat Barnsley on the same night we only get 3pts if we beat Sunderland?
-
Think he means 7. If we both win on Tuesday and then they beat SHA on Saturday.
-
You're correct. I miscounted. Seven points as Cardiff have two byes in the next week.
-
That's just loser talk, cd.
Blose will win Tuesday, thus instilling in themselves, like point-winning Barnsley, a belief that they can escape, in turn inspiring them to unlikely back-to-back victories.
Ergo, our win over the dogheads will see us back into second, and once again in control of our own fortune.
-
Probably a 15/1 shot for SHA to win their next two.
-
New manager bounce might let them get something next weekend.
-
If new manager bounce was that effective, Leeds would win every game.
-
Based on last 22 seasons of current format of championship the MOST points required to make the playoffs was 76. That should be our first target to get that in the bag by the time we have played Hull on 31st March.
-
Could someone remind me when Fulham's tough run starts?!
-
Probably better to put it in this thread,
Current runs the 3 of us are on
Us W9 D1 L1
Fulham W11 D3 L0
Cardiff W7 D2 L0
As for Wolves W3 D3 L2. If they lose tomorrow at Leeds then the pressure really starts for them for the first time.
-
Preston away isn't going to be easy for Fulham and then there is the QPR derby
-
I'll say it again, I will absolutely piss my pants if Wolves screw up promotion!
It'll be hilarious!
-
Wolves must be looking over their shoulders a touch now
Wish I could trust Leeds not to fuck it up. They concede bad goals
Grealish in for hogan on Saturday and let’s go for it. Gonna be massive
-
Wolves could plausibly be 2nd by the end of the game on Saturday. Cardiff have got Blues at home which will be a cricket score and of Wolves lose tomorrow and Saturday the goal difference could easily switch in Cardiff's favour.
-
What I want from rest of the season:
4 points from Cardiff-QPR
4 points from Hull-Bolton
3 points from Reading
4 points from Norwich-Ipswich
6 points from Leeds-Cardiff
4 points from Derby-Millwall.
7 wins from 11. We would surely get second with that. 91 points.
Can't Fulham only get a maximum of 94 points?
Cardiff are only beating bottom half teams by a single goal. They have lots of tough away games coming up. They will surely drop points.
-
Massive few days for the Dogheads, win tomorrow and Sat and that's them up imo. Lose them both and the ghost of 2002 looms large.
-
What I want from rest of the season:
4 points from Cardiff-QPR
4 points from Hull-Bolton
3 points from Reading
4 points from Norwich-Ipswich
6 points from Leeds-Cardiff
4 points from Derby-Millwall.
7 wins from 11. We would surely get second with that. 91 points.
Can't Fulham only get a maximum of 94 points?
Cardiff are only beating bottom half teams by a single goal. They have lots of tough away games coming up. They will surely drop points.
Promise ?
-
Has to be 40,000+ on Saturday. Forget Small Heath, this is our biggest home game of the season so far. Anyone who bought a ticket for that game has to be there Saturday and VP has to be rocking from the off.
-
Just checked, Fulham can get maximum of 95 points in the run in. Don't look like losing atm but we need them to be held to a couple of draws.
Wolves still have 12 games left. 6 wins would get them to 91 points. As funny as it would be I really can't see them messing it up.
Cardiff's fixtures in next 6 weeks:
Brentford away
Derby away
Sheffield United away
Wolves home
Us away
Norwich away
Look at some of those away games. Keep calm, Cardiff will be dropping points. Them going to Hull right at the end of the season won't be easy for them either.
-
Fulham set of fixtures look reasonably good for them and from the 3 the best perhaps.
However as mentioned they play Preston arguably their hardest match in run in next away from home and think they may at least not get 3 points.
However the rest of their matches include 2 home matches against relegation teams reading, and Sunderland.
Also play Birmingham last and rest of matches after preston are against middling teams. With little to play for. Makes their current run even more impressive as the games now are pretty straightforward.
However I think they may do similar to last season and fail in play offs.
Obviously I would always back villa anyways but I would back Villa or Middlesborough in play offs to go up. However we all know keep winning matches is key whoever we play and the matches some tougher and potentially draws which could harm our promoting bid.
The great thing is Bruce and experience in this situation.
It's actually really necessary to beat wolves whatever Preston Fulham do as well as what wolves do tomorrow (expecting them to win).
Looking again at villa fixture the last thing wanted is Millwall away last game of season decider.
I heard someone mention villa need to take 6 wins and 2 draws in final matches.
Again I check here what is the amount points to look at for this season if looking at Cardiff and Fulham and wolves matches for the automatic places.
No twists and turns tonight all straight forward and Cardiff have to say will win again Saturday. I see their last match is at home to Reading.
-
I'll say it again, I will absolutely piss my pants if Wolves screw up promotion!
It'll be hilarious!
Only if the villa go up for me then can enjoy WBA and Wolves from afar and blues in league one.
-
The trouble with Cardiff is they never play well but keep winning. By all accounts Barnsley were all over them second half tonight and should have got something from the game. I'd rather lose out to Fulham than Cardiff, at least they're a good side who play decent football. Cardiff are spawny bastards.
-
What I want from rest of the season:
4 points from Cardiff-QPR
4 points from Hull-Bolton
3 points from Reading
4 points from Norwich-Ipswich
6 points from Leeds-Cardiff
4 points from Derby-Millwall.
7 wins from 11. We would surely get second with that. 91 points.
Can't Fulham only get a maximum of 94 points?
Cardiff are only beating bottom half teams by a single goal. They have lots of tough away games coming up. They will surely drop points.
95, they're on 65 with 10 to go, not that it matters.
I go back to my thinking from earlier in the season that I don't think 85-86 will be enough, we need to be aiming for 90 points still, so 8 wins, or 7 and 3 draws, from the last 11. I just wish we hadn't had a bad start and bad December so we hadn't been playing catchup all season.
-
The trouble with Cardiff is they never play well but keep winning. By all accounts Barnsley were all over them second half tonight and should have got something from the game. I'd rather lose out to Fulham than Cardiff, at least they're a good side who play decent football. Cardiff are spawny bastards.
Would still rather play Cardiff than Fulham in the play offs if it comes to that.
-
Leeds taking a point off Wolves tomorrow night would be huge, beating them a stretch too far I think. Our biggest game of season on Saturday, extra day break could be crucial. Not that our lads needed to break sweat tonight.
Boro will be a horrible side to play in playoffs. If the highlights are any guide, Downing and Traore seem to be going very well and Bamford has started to bang them in.
Fulham seem a very impressive side with the best coach in the division.
-
What I want from rest of the season:
4 points from Cardiff-QPR
4 points from Hull-Bolton
3 points from Reading
4 points from Norwich-Ipswich
6 points from Leeds-Cardiff
4 points from Derby-Millwall.
7 wins from 11. We would surely get second with that. 91 points.
Can't Fulham only get a maximum of 94 points?
Cardiff are only beating bottom half teams by a single goal. They have lots of tough away games coming up. They will surely drop points.
95, they're on 65 with 10 to go, not that it matters.
I go back to my thinking from earlier in the season that I don't think 85-86 will be enough, we need to be aiming for 90 points still, so 8 wins, or 7 and 3 draws, from the last 11. I just wish we hadn't had a bad start and bad December so we hadn't been playing catchup all season.
Yep, it's going to take that kind of run I think Paul. Was speaking to a Notts County fan at work who said they were in a similar position to us a few years ago with 11 games to go (Steve Cotterill was the manager there at the time funnily enough). He said they won the next ten games on the bounce only losing on the last day of the season when they were already champions.
-
It's in our hands. Beat Wolves and Cardiff in amongst that requirement of 8-9 wins and we're up. Don't and it's playoffs.
-
The trouble with Cardiff is they never play well but keep winning. By all accounts Barnsley were all over them second half tonight and should have got something from the game. I'd rather lose out to Fulham than Cardiff, at least they're a good side who play decent football. Cardiff are spawny bastards.
The trouble with Cardiff is they never play well but keep winning. By all accounts Barnsley were all over them second half tonight and should have got something from the game. I'd rather lose out to Fulham than Cardiff, at least they're a good side who play decent football. Cardiff are spawny bastards.
Would still rather play Cardiff than Fulham in the play offs if it comes to that.
Agreed , Cardiff at moment are just about doing enough ..Fulham are on fire
-
Google suggests the following points:-
Average needed to get into the playoffs = 73
Average needed for second place = 89
Average to win the league = 91
About another 10 points from 11 games would pretty much guarantee the playoffs. I’m not sure we can get to 89 points though. We’d need 23 points, or 7 wins and 2 draws with 2 losses.
Most of our trickier games are at home though.
-
Most of our trickier games are at home though.
This is the key for me. I’d much rather be in our position.
-
I think i'd prefer to be 4 points clear in 2nd.
-
Wolves are bricking it. They are looking over their shoulders now and will be a spent force when they end up in the play offs. Villa? I think we’ll be taking the top spot.
I am not pissed btw.
-
Fulham are a real cause for concern. They’re every bit as likely to go straight up as us or Cardiff. With a relatively easy run in too.
-
Again the win for Cardiff is breaking Fulham's heart as they still find themselves potentially 8 points from second position despite an unbelievable run. They will not keep this up for rest of the season.
-
I think i'd prefer to be 4 points clear in 2nd.
Same here, It’s Cardiff’s to lose.
-
Fulham are a real cause for concern. They’re every bit as likely to go straight up as us or Cardiff. With a relatively easy run in too.
Yeah I’m more worried about Fulham than Cardiff. Wished we had beaten them, that was a real lost opportunity
-
Remember the poll. who to beat Blues or Fulham. most on here wanted to beat Blues. Some even couldn't see the significance of the Fulham option.
-
Cardiff being spawny twats as usual.
-
Fulham are a worry. A month ago they had a really tough run-in. They've won all but one... just Preston on Saturday to come, their most difficult remaining game. If they win that, I can't see them dropping many points between now and the end of the season.
-
Fulham are a worry. A month ago they had a really tough run-in. They've won all but one... just Preston on Saturday to come, their most difficult remaining game. If they win that, I can't see them dropping many points between now and the end of the season.
They're on a ridiculous run. To think, we bemoan our crap start. They'd only won four matches by the middle of November. Then came that ridiculous game at Sheffield United which they won 5-4 and since then they've won 14 out of 19 matches. Had they bothered to play for the first four months of the season they'd have won the league at a canter.
-
Great effort from everyone who made the journey last night.
Check out @AVFCOfficial’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/971162413671370752?s=09
-
Fulham are more likely to drop points away from home at Preston and the like.
Derby were all over them once Rowett changed it up with Plamer, but looking at Derby now, its perhaps not the difficult game it appeared on paper, as the arse is slowly dropping out of their season via these draws.
-
Come on Leeds
-
Sadly , Leeds are shite
-
Leeds were hopeless up at Boro the other day, at this rate Heckinbottom won't even make next season.
We should be beating them comfortably in April with their season over.
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
I think there's more chance of Kirsty Gallacher knocking on my door tonight armed with a chicken pathia, a slab of beer and a Luther Vandross LP but we can all dream can't we?
-
I still can't see Wolves not making it regardless of what happens tonight or Saturday. They still only need 5 wins to go up. Would quite happily take their position in the table.
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
"Come on Blues"
Im now off to vomit having even uttered those words
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
I'd be delighted to see Blose win that one, I only really want to see the Villa do well. If Blose go down that's just a bonus.
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
"Come on Blues"
Im now off to vomit having even uttered those words
Cardiff will be the Blues, so you can say "come on visitors". That's not so bad, is it?
-
Quite honestly, I would be happy if Blues won every game between now and the end of the season. It would mean defeats for both Cardiff and Fulham, as well as Wolves.
As "in exile" states, Blues going down is a bonus. Nothing comes close to our own goal of regaining our PL place.
-
Never thought I'd see the day I was wanting Leeds to win.
How do you feel about Birmingham winning at Cardiff on Saturday?
I'd be delighted to see Blose win that one, I only really want to see the Villa do well. If Blose go down that's just a bonus.
Well put.
-
For me 4 best teams are Wolves, Villa, Fulham and Middlesbrough.
They have the best players and teams in the league. And all have several players who would grace every team in championship. They also have players who can play premier league.
I can see the 3 promoted coming from these 4 teams.
Villas squad is particularly the strongest and I think that will give us the edge for 1 of the places
-
For me 4 best teams are Wolves, Villa, Fulham and Middlesbrough.
They have the best players and teams in the league. And all have several players who would grace every team in championship. They also have players who can play premier league.
I can see the 3 promoted coming from these 4 teams.
Villas squad is particularly the strongest and I think that will give us the edge for 1 of the places
I think you're right on all of this.
-
I can imagine a lot of Bluenoses hoping they lose to Cardiff just to make it tougher on us.
-
Random thought just now but is there anyone on this forum who thinks we won't finish top 6?
Given how this forum is on suicide watch at times, there's surely someone who reckons we'll lose to Wolves and barely win a game for the reminder of the season.
We probably need 10 points to secure a play off place which is a good position to be in for the start of March.
-
We've a 9 point lead over 7th and have a game in hand, while I still have a bit of a nagging worry we could go on another 3-6 game bad run I think we have too much of a cushion over those outside the top 6.
-
Absolutely no chance of us finishing outside the top 6. If we're not going to make second then we'll finish 3rd or 4th at the lowest.
Ironically 4th might be better as we'd probably play Derby in 2 legs which looks like being the easier of the 2 opponents if Boro finish 6th as they seem to be coming into form at the right time.
-
Yep, play offs are guaranteed but in the spirit of the "suicide watch" comment I have absolutely no confidence in us winning the playoffs. Which will mean another season in the Championship, FFP biting hard, a firesale of the squad, a team full of kids getting an absolute battering next season, relegated to League 1 by February, Randy buying the club back for even less than he sold to Dr Tone, and National League football within five years!
Just for balance loike! ;)
-
Leeds are fucking shite.
-
Leeds are fucking shite.
We should be beating them in April. One of the games along with QPR, Hull, Reading, Ipswich and probably Cardiff we must win to get second.
-
Leeds looked like it would be a tough game a few weeks back but should be a home banker now. Wolves surely too far ahead even if we beat them. Shame as a collapse would have been highly amusing.
-
As annoying as tonight's result was, you can't say that Wolves did anything but see a high-pressure game and dominate the crap out of it. Champions performance.
-
Random thought just now but is there anyone on this forum who thinks we won't finish top 6?
Given how this forum is on suicide watch at times, there's surely someone who reckons we'll lose to Wolves and barely win a game for the reminder of the season.
We probably need 10 points to secure a play off place which is a good position to be in for the start of March.
Where's the need for comments like this, it's crass utterly insensitive to suggest people who think missing out on promotion are in the same place as people who are genuinely suicidal, I don't care if that was joke or a turn of phrase, it was a wanky thing to say and done for a totally unnecessary dig at people who have had a different opinion to you at times.
In answer to the question, we'll make the top 6 but I'd be very nervous at having to play Fulham or Boro in the playoffs, both are currently in great form (as are we of course) and playing at a tempo that we've struggled against at times.
-
I'm sorry Paul, I shouldn't have used it as an analogy to describe posters who seem at their wits end on a match thread when we have a bad five minutes.
-
Bloody hell. You're not allow to say Suicide now?!
-
I'm sorry Paul, I shouldn't have used it as an analogy to describe posters who seem at their wits end on a match thread when we have a bad five minutes.
Haha. It's why I very rarely go on the match threads during the game if i'm not there. Not really my cup of tea at all.
-
A bad five minutes that reaches back to MON flouncing out less than a week before the start of the season.
Other people have their own views and opinions about Villa and the part they play in their lives but to me the descent from Champions of Europe to relegation in mockery and derision is justifyable cause to view our future with extreme caution.
-
nail. on. head. Book 'em Danno
-
The match thread is just full of people living in the moment and expressing frustrations. I think one of the first rules of any 'live' thread regarding a sport is that people are going to post stuff which makes them look stupid an hour later. It shouldn't really be used as an indication of anything other than they're a bit nervous about the result.
Player and manager threads within a few hours of a game are often similar.
-
The match thread is just full of people living in the moment and expressing frustrations. I think one of the first rules of any 'live' thread regarding a sport is that people are going to post stuff which makes them look stupid an hour later. It shouldn't really be used as an indication of anything other than they're a bit nervous about the result.
Player and manager threads within a few hours of a game are often similar.
I think that's really well put there and want to acknowledge that. We re all on same side here discussing and opinions are part of it and do vary but like to think everyone means well and everyone wants the same thing.
That is all will be glad to see the back of the championship status. (if not the championship matches and rivalries and status as the team everyone wants to beat!)
Is there a situation if villa get promoted 1,2 or playoffs that their would be a parade in the centre of Birmingham? That would be something special to see for me.
The other would be being in and around Wembley if play off final.
Those 2 things would be a great victory for us all here far and wide!
Anyway UTV
-
Is there a situation if villa get promoted 1,2 or playoffs that their would be a parade in the centre of Birmingham? That would be something special to see for me.
Please God, no.
-
Is there a situation if villa get promoted 1,2 or playoffs that their would be a parade in the centre of Birmingham? That would be something special to see for me.
Please God, no.
Agree. It would be small time
-
There was definitely a parade when we won the Third Division. Assume we had a parade in 1975 as we won the League Cup, too. Not sure if we had one in our other promotion seasons of 1938/60/88.
I'd rather not have one, given a choice.
But if there was one, I'd rather turn up. As it would be even more small-time if we have a parade and hardly anyone turns up.
-
Think we need 7/8 wins from remaining 11. Genuinely believe Cardiff will drop points in each of their next 3. We have a game in hand over Fulham so even if we didn’t get 3 points Saturday it won’t be a disaster
-
No need for a parade. You get a trophy if you finish second.
-
I think we have a reasonably good run in. We could do with a point or three on Saturday to keep momentum. We'll beat Cardiff and finish second - just.
-
Think we can afford two draws from our home games left (Wolves and Derby).
The other four need to be won: QPR, Reading and Leeds because they're bobbins and then realistically we're probably going to have to beat Cardiff unless they go on another losing run.
Anyway break that down and that's up to 80 points from the home games. 10 points from the aways and I'd be very disappointed if we didn't go up on 90 points.
-
Fulham's run in looks worryingly comfortable.
-
Fulham's run in looks worryingly comfortable.
It rarely works like that in practice, though.
-
Fulham have dropped points against a Bristol side who are collapsing since Boxing Day and Bolton.
-
Fulham have dropped points against a Bristol side who are collapsing since Boxing Day and Bolton.
They won their last home game 4-0!!
-
Fulham have dropped points against a Bristol side who are collapsing since Boxing Day and Bolton.
They won their last home game 4-0!!
They've won 3 in 12.
-
Three home games for Fulham that are interesting for me are QPR, Brentford and Reading. QPR and Brentford are two local derbys and Reading is a bit of a grudge match after huge fall out from playoffs last season.
-
Reading are shit though
-
As are QPR
On current form you’d make Fulham favourites based on the fixtures I reckon
But it’s a big ask to sustain that form for half a season which is what Fulham would have done
-
I'm sorry Paul, I shouldn't have used it as an analogy to describe posters who seem at their wits end on a match thread when we have a bad five minutes.
Haha. It's why I very rarely go on the match threads during the game if i'm not there. Not really my cup of tea at all.
I love a good match thread. You.can sit there with your cocoa. See if we care!
-
Very worried if Fulham comfortably see off PNE on Saturday. That's their hardest away game left.
That said they have to go to the Den (same for us). Seems Millwall have hardly lost a home game all season.
-
Fulham have less points than us and have played more games. They should be worrying about us.
-
The way I see it is that if we didn’t get automatic promotion I would prefer Fulham to be second. In the playoffs I would back us to beat the remainder including Cardiff, I wouldn’t feel so confident if we came up against Fulham at Wembley.
-
Is there a situation if villa get promoted 1,2 or playoffs that their would be a parade in the centre of Birmingham? That would be something special to see for me.
Please God, no.
Agree. It would be small time
Okay so even if champions??!
Though maybe unlikely. However I think if Villa go up whichever way there would be some acknowledgement to the fans?
Let's beat Derby and Rowett as a villa fan can join in celebrations last home match then.
-
Winning the top flight, European Cup or FA Cup are the only things Villa should have a parade/civic reception for. And I say that as someone that went to the '96 reception.
-
Winning the top flight, European Cup or FA Cup are the only things Villa should have a parade/civic reception for. And I say that as someone that went to the '96 reception.
Okay. I get the protocol. Understood
-
Winning the top flight, European Cup or FA Cup are the only things Villa should have a parade/civic reception for. And I say that as someone that went to the '96 reception.
I don't remember there being a '96 reception.
-
Winning the top flight, European Cup or FA Cup are the only things Villa should have a parade/civic reception for. And I say that as someone that went to the '96 reception.
I don't remember there being a '96 reception.
It was held at the end of the season
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/civic-reception-for-aston-villa-at-birmingham-council-house-brian-picture-id892929848?k=6&m=892929848&s=612x612&w=0&h=a9c8BE61AkWjiLQY19-2pcsODQ1e7-EByYLrsgl_FUc=)
-
Not long after we'd won 6-0 at the sty for John Frain's testimonial iirc.
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/civic-reception-for-aston-villa-at-birmingham-council-house-brian-picture-id892929862)
-
No recollection of that at all. Maybe I was on holiday or summat.
-
Any major trophy should get a civic reception or one at Villa Park. Play offs isn't that.
Didn't we have one for the 2000 final, that was a bit odd. Didn't go but remember seeing it on the local news, don't imagine too many turned up after that performance at the old Wembley.
-
I think ITV (in the Midlands) once screened liver coverage of a Forest arcade after they LOST a cup final, possibly to Spurs. Mental.
-
I think ITV (in the Midlands) once screened liver coverage of a Forest arcade after they LOST a cup final, possibly to Spurs. Mental.
I saw that. It was full of bile.
What have I done.
-
No recollection of that at all. Maybe I was on holiday or summat.
We were in Rhodes during Euro 96.
-
Not for the start of it. I remember seeing Scotland and Switzerland fans drinking outside the Yew Tree Pub.
-
I moved abroad the day before the final of Euro 96. Feels a very long time ago.
-
I moved abroad the day before the final of Euro 96. Feels a very long time ago.
I moved abroad just a couple months later (it was indeed a long time ago). On the Scotland vs. Switzerland game, I went to that as a Scotland fan. I sat in the Holte and found myself next to Wolfie with his bag of masks. Certainly bemused the Tartan Army.
-
happy days. BTW I hope that if Wolves have been guilty of some shady shit - including FFP stuff - then they are punished for it. I probably shouldn't admit to this given the current wave of puritanism sweeping the country, but I was also abroad then for a time in Greece. I had my own marketing consultancy in 96 and bizarrely,took a wrong number call from a club wanting to book some of our strippers! Naturally I said we could help and we did! A great few months in the sun.
-
Ralls and Morrison both out injured. They've been Cardiff's best players.
The Noses will do them tomorrow.
-
Winning the top flight, European Cup or FA Cup are the only things Villa should have a parade/civic reception for. And I say that as someone that went to the '96 reception.
I don't remember there being a '96 reception.
It was 1994 when there was no reception. I think there was some disagreement between Doug and the council as to when it should take place. Instead, the trophy was paraded around the pitch at the next home game.
-
I feel dirty wanting the Blosers to win today!!
-
I feel dirty wanting the Blosers to win today!!
I bet a lot of them do as well.
-
I feel dirty wanting the Blosers to win today!!
I bet a lot of them do as well.
Just think of the mental agony they'll be in on the last day of the season if they need to beat Fulham to stay up, but doing so meant we were promoted.
-
I feel dirty wanting the Blosers to win today!!
I bet a lot of them do as well.
Just think of the mental agony they'll be in on the last day of the season if they need to beat Fulham to stay up, but doing so meant we were promoted.
A lot of them would take relegation over us going up.
-
Draw will be fine today at Cardiff.
Cardiff's next two are Brentford and Cardiff away. If they really are struggling to put a team out they won't be winning those two.
-
Cardiff Vs Cardiff. I'll look forward to that.
-
Yep one way to guarentee Cardiff drop points there!
Meant Derby. They will surely win a game before the end of the season, might aswell be against Cardiff.
-
Cardiff Vs Cardiff. I'll look forward to that.
With their injuries, they might struggle to put out 2 teams!
-
Ralls and Morrison both out injured. They've been Cardiff's best players.
The Noses will do them tomorrow.
It’s blues we’re talking about
-
7 points behind Cardiff it is then as I can't see us getting anything against Wolves. Automatic promotion gone if we lose tonight.
-
What a ray of sunshine you are pal.
-
Ralls and Morrison both out injured. They've been Cardiff's best players.
The Noses will do them tomorrow.
It’s blues we’re talking about
Only 3-0 down at half time so they are fighting!
-
It's going to be tough if we do lose and are 7 behind with 10 to play, makes the Cardiff home game must win and then we need to gain 4 or 5 points depending on GD from the other 9 games. Tough but not impossible.
-
Their goal difference could be about 8 better than ours by close of play today the way things are going!
-
Regardless of what happens today, we shouldn't be conceding to Neil Warnock's Cardiff side, with 30 points to play for.
-
Cardiff won't finish second, that much I know.
-
All we can do is keep winning. We'll catch one of them ahead of us if we do that.
-
Cardiff won't finish second, that much I know.
First?
-
Would have expected a shit side in the bottom 3 and heading for their 8th consecutive defeat to get twatted away to an in form 2nd place side.
-
Doesn't make me feel better, that.
-
I expected to be 7 behind when we kick off so was always just a case of how many Cardiff won by for me.
-
7 points behind Cardiff it is then as I can't see us getting anything against Wolves. Automatic promotion gone if we lose tonight.
Thank fuck you’re nowhere near the players. Grow a pair.
-
3-1 as lifelong
sha Sunderland Villa Albion fan Gardner scores a pen.
-
I worry if it is 7 points after we play wolves. That would put us 3 games behind them, then you have to factor in that we will drop points in at least another 2 games, so we are basically asking Cardiff to drop points in half of the remaining games. I don’t think that will happen.
-
A few months ago they lost 4 on the spin during a run of 2 wins in 8. Anything can still happen.
-
Fuck off Fulham!
-
Woohoo! Have that Fulham!
-
Honestly. Just fuck off Fulham!
-
Just no room for error in the league now , the form of the top 6 is unreal currently
-
With the form of Wolves, Fulham and Cardiff every game is a cup final. I keep hearing about their tough games coming up but they're not even drawing let alone losing. Like I said 10 cup finals.
We need to win 7 to stand a chance. Were going to need to repeat what we've done this year all over again.
-
Wolves still have Boro and Cardiff away, 2002 is still on for a repeat.
-
7 points behind Cardiff it is then as I can't see us getting anything against Wolves. Automatic promotion gone if we lose tonight.
Thank fuck you’re nowhere near the players. Grow a pair.
Looking forward to your assessment of what we did wrong Quinton. Or you can just say it was brilliant and move right along.
-
At 4 o'clock this afternoon I very much doubted that we'd be making up ground on Cardiff today.
-
Pretty sure about a month ago Wolves were something like 13 points clear at the top.
-
last time we won 20 games in a season?
answers on a postcard please
-
last time we won 20 games in a season?
answers on a postcard please
League wise, 1992-93
-
Cup wise we've done it in 94, 96, 97 and 98 and probably 2-3 times under MON
-
I maintain that the golden rule of championship will not be broken.
Get 2 points a game, ie 92 points, 23 more in 10 games... and we will get an automatic spot.
8 wins or 7 wins and 2 draws from 10.
After today no-one to fear, not even Millwall away
-
last time we won 20 games in a season?
answers on a postcard please
League wise, 1992-93
Correct...2nd that season
OMEN
-
I maintain that the golden rule of championship will not be broken.
Get 2 points a game, ie 92 points, 23 more in 10 games... and we will get an automatic spot.
8 wins or 7 wins and 2 draws from 10.
After today no-one to fear, not even Millwall away
We might not need quite that many, but I suspect the 90 a few have been saying since the summer will prove to be the target. 7 wins out of 10 with one of them being Cardiff and I think it's in the bag.
-
Current runs of form the top 4 are on
Wolves W4 D3 L3
Cardiff W8 D2 L0
Villa W10 D1 L1
Fulham W12 D3 L0
-
Cardiff will drop points in the next week, I'm certain of it. We should cut the gap to them to 2 at least before the break, would be disappointed if the gap was still four.
Fulham is going to be a bit more of a problem I think.
That said 7 wins and 3 draw from our last 10 would have us on 93 points. Am I right in saying Fulham would have to win every single game left to better that.
So that should be the target. Way we played tonight we're capable of 24 more points this season.
-
Fulham can reach 95 points. Currently on 68 with 9 games to play.
In addition to the form above, Wolves have taken only 5 points from the last 5 games.
-
Think Fulham will hit 90 points as they've had a very hard last 6 games and won 5 of them. Nicked a good win today up at Preston.
Still work for us to do.
-
Plenty still to go in all this. So many games involving the top six. Apart from Fulham.
So us and Fulham to finish top two. You heard it here first.
-
We just now need Cardiff to sneeze which they will and we go past them. Fulham are no worry.
-
We just now need Cardiff to sneeze which they will and we go past them. Fulham are no worry.
Fulham's going to win most of their games in the run in so a slip or two from us and they'll be in.
-
Points required for 2nd place over the since 2004:
Season Runner-up
2004–05 Wigan Athletic 87
2005–06 Sheffield United 90
2006–07 Birmingham City 86
2007–08 Stoke City 79
2008–09 Birmingham City 83
2009–10 West Bromwich Albion 91
2010–11 Norwich City1 84
2011–12 Southampton 88
2012–13 Hull City 79
2013–14 Burnley 93
2014–15 Watford 89
2015–16 Middlesbrough 89
2016–17 Brighton & Hove Albion 93
93 seems to be an outlier, and the chase is a lot more competitive this season. If we can get 7 wins (or equivalent) that would get us to 90 points. I think that would be enough, especially if one of those wins is against Cardiff.
The average over that period though is 87 points (6 more wins or equivalent), but that would be very squeaky given our run-in.
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
-
Fulham’s fixtures look bloody easy on paper
Let’s hope they bottle it
Really do think Cardiff will fall away
A wolves collapse would be very nice indeed
-
Cardiff have Derby and Brentford away next week. If they win both of those then it's going to be really tough.
-
Cardiff have Derby and Brentford away next week. If they win both of those then it's going to be really tough.
Start of April they have Sheffield United away, Wolves home and then us away three days later. They then finish up in Norwich.
I've always looked at that two week period when we would overhaul them. I still expect that to happen.
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
Good point.
Average third place points (same period): 82.46
Most points for 3rd place: 89 (2005-06)
Lowest points for 3rd place: 75 (2013-14)
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
Good point.
Average third place points (same period): 82.46
Most points for 3rd place: 89 (2005-06)
Lowest points for 3rd place: 75 (2013-14)
Given where the top four are already, 83 points for 2nd (as those stats would suggest) seems ridiculously low.
-
It will be 90 points. We need to be targeting that. 7 more wins.
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
Good point.
Average third place points (same period): 82.46
Most points for 3rd place: 89 (2005-06)
Lowest points for 3rd place: 75 (2013-14)
Given where the top four are already, 83 points for 2nd (as those stats would suggest) seems ridiculously low.
I would imagine that with the pressure the top teams start losing games about now. Weren't Brighton and castle miles ahead last year and then started dropping points?
-
Cardiff have Derby and Brentford away next week. If they win both of those then it's going to be really tough.
Start of April they have Sheffield United away, Wolves home and then us away three days later. They then finish up in Norwich.
I've always looked at that two week period when we would overhaul them. I still expect that to happen.
Their next four away games are Brentford, Derby, villa and Sheffield United
Home games v Burton and wolves
If they’re still top two after that I’ll be worried
-
Cardiff have Derby and Brentford away next week. If they win both of those then it's going to be really tough.
Start of April they have Sheffield United away, Wolves home and then us away three days later. They then finish up in Norwich.
I've always looked at that two week period when we would overhaul them. I still expect that to happen.
Their next four away games are Brentford, Derby, villa and Sheffield United
Home games v Burton and wolves
If they’re still top two after that I’ll be worried
That’s tough. For them
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
Good point.
Average third place points (same period): 82.46
Most points for 3rd place: 89 (2005-06)
Lowest points for 3rd place: 75 (2013-14)
Given where the top four are already, 83 points for 2nd (as those stats would suggest) seems ridiculously low.
Yep, but Fulham, Cardiff and Villa have all had incredible recent runs. For all 3 to keep that level up would be insane.
Last 10 games (W-D-L):
Wolves 4-3-3
Cardiff 7-2-1
Villa 8-1-1
Fulham 8-2-0
-
Most of the time it didn't need that many though. It's how many 3rd place got that matters.
Good point.
Average third place points (same period): 82.46
Most points for 3rd place: 89 (2005-06)
Lowest points for 3rd place: 75 (2013-14)
Given where the top four are already, 83 points for 2nd (as those stats would suggest) seems ridiculously low.
Yep, but Fulham, Cardiff and Villa have all had incredible recent runs. For all 3 to keep that level up would be insane.
Last 10 games (W-D-L):
Wolves 4-3-3
Cardiff 7-2-1
Villa 8-1-1
Fulham 8-2-0
If all four averaged the same points per game for the rest of the season Wolves would finish level with Fulham on 91 points. Cardiff would finish on 96 and us on 94.
How funny would that be?!?!
-
Cardiff won't finish second, that much I know.
First?
They'll fall apart before the visit to Villa Park, starting next week. They beat the Rags today but it was hard to tell who was the team in the relegation zone they were so poor.
-
We just now need Cardiff to sneeze which they will and we go past them. Fulham are no worry.
Fulham are behind us. Fuck them.
-
The form of the top 4 is too strong - someone has to fall off! Please not us (still think no 1 is secured with the orange team)
-
The form of the top 4 is too strong - someone has to fall off! Please not us (still think no 1 is secured with the orange team)
We'll be the last fuckers standing, don't worry about that.
-
Fulham have the easiest run in, Cardiff’s next 5 before they play us include Brentford Rams Blades awAy and Dogheads at Home.
-
Grealish and Albert are key to us going up. The team is just so much more threatening with them in it. Be good if Kod can come back firing for the run in as well or would he disrupt the team?
Incidentally my predictive text wanted to put freakish for Grealish. Sums his form up in 2018!
-
It won't be as many points needed as we think. It never is.
21 more points should be enough; 6 wins and 3 draws.
Bolton
Hull
Norwich
Ipswich
Millwall
Out of those away games you'd back us to win at least 3 and avoid defeat in the other 2. I wouldn't be surprised if we win all 5.
QPR
Reading
Cardiff
Leeds
Derby
Again, we ought to win at least 3 and then it's a massive one against Cardiff. I'd back us to take 13 at least being honest.
With Grealish, Adomah and Grabban on fire, I think we're probably on for 25-26 more points which leaves us on mid-90s.
-
It won't be as many points needed as we think. It never is.
I'm actually beginning to think otherwise.
I can't see Fulham dropping many from their remaining games and Wolves are still good enough to hit 90 quite easily. I've no idea what Cardiff will end up with as they have some tricky, unpredictable games but looking at Fulham, they look like 7 wins out of 9 is not too much to ask from them. Wolves only need 4 wins and a couple of draws from 10 games.
I always thought that with so many sides contesting 2nd place that the points total would be lower. I now think that the team in 2nd will have to hit 90.
-
Even if that's the case, win our game in hand Tuesday and its a 2 game turnaround for them, so them dropping points will be seriously damaging.
Let's beat QPR and get that four point cushion back and put Cardiff under. I think by half 7 on Saturday we will have brought Cardiff back to within a point.
But it's about what we do. Look at those fixtures we have and there's no reason we cannot win them all. I'm not saying we Will, but there's nobody to fear and for all the talk of Fulhams roll, 31 out of 36 ain't bad.
We're starting to stick big scores on sides now too. 11 in 3 games and a better goal difference that Cardiff and Fulham.
-
Even if that's the case, win our game in hand Tuesday and its a 2 game turnaround for them, so them dropping points will be seriously damaging.
Let's beat QPR and get that four point cushion back and put Cardiff under. I think by half 7 on Saturday we will have brought Cardiff back to within a point.
But it's about what we do. Look at those fixtures we have and there's no reason we cannot win them all. I'm not saying we Will, but there's nobody to fear and for all the talk of Fulhams roll, 31 out of 36 ain't bad.
We're starting to stick big scores on sides now too. 11 in 3 games and a better goal difference that Cardiff and Fulham.
I agree that it's what we do. We're looking good and there seems to be a fantastic spirit among our team. As Brucie said on Friday, let's enjoy it.
-
Crucial that we beat QPR. After that next 4 should be doable and then we are in the mega week when we play Cardiff and Leeds within 4 days. We need to be in striking distance when those games are played.
-
Think I said on here or elsewhere a few weeks back that I wanted 70 points by the end of play of the Wolves game.
Was disappointed we'd fallen one short until I remember the QPR game was part of that group so we win that and we'd be 2 points better off than I thought we'd be so in good shape regardless of what Cardiff are doing.
-
Fulham are in amazing form
It would be a huge achievement to sustain this for another ten games. Even with seemingly easy fixtures
Plus win our game in hand and we’re four points clear I believe?
-
Correct.
I agree that it would be fairly astonishing for their form to continue, but their remaining games are a lot easier than I would like.
-
We keep talking about everyone else's good form as a given, without recognising that ours is as good.
We faltered when Albert and Jack were crocked but other than that we've not missed a beat this year really!
'Unstoppable' Fulham will still be 4 points behind us if we do what we should against QPR.
-
It makes december even more frustrating/curious. One more win during would make a big difference now.
-
It makes december even more frustrating/curious. One more win during would make a big difference now.
Cardiff lost four straight games during xmas.
Big frustration is how slow our start was. That should'nt have happened given we had most of last season to plan for this one.
Cardiff won their first five league games. We won one of our first seven.
By middle of September Cardiff pretty much had a 10 point head start on us so that's why it's been so tough to get infront of them.
-
We keep talking about everyone else's good form as a given, without recognising that ours is as good.
We faltered when Albert and Jack were crocked but other than that we've not missed a beat this year really!
'Unstoppable' Fulham will still be 4 points behind us if we do what we should against QPR.
Agreed. If our best players stay fit and focussed it is there for the taking. Cardiff will surely drop points soon with their fixtures and Fulham haven’t been able to catch us yet and can’t if we keep going. Let’s hope Jack is ok after the kicking he received last night, he makes results seem so much likely, it always seems laboured without him.
-
It makes december even more frustrating/curious. One more win during would make a big difference now.
Cardiff lost four straight games during xmas.
Big frustration is how slow our start was. That should'nt have happened given we had most of last season to plan for this one.
Cardiff won their first five league games. We won one of our first seven.
By middle of September Cardiff pretty much had a 10 point head start on us so that's why it's been so tough to get infront of them.
Yep, I've taken a lot of grief on here from some for complaining about the start to the season but there really was no justification for how unprepared we looked in August. From about Christmas last season it was obvious which league we were going to be in and time needed to be used to find a way to play that worked for us but instead we muddled through into the summer and then muddled along until the end of the window before we started trying to work out how to use the squad. Despite all my complaints at the time I don't think December was as bad, I just hate constantly playing catch-up.
We're now in a great place and look like we might make it despite the poor start but I'd love to have another 7-8 points on the board right now and be right in the mix for the title.
Where Bruce, the players, the coaches, etc all deserve huge credit is that they've finally started acting like the big dog and going into games like this knowing that if we perform they won't be good enough to handle us. If we can keep that attitude for the rest of the season we'll get top2, if we'd had it from the summer we'd be going up with 100+ points on the board.
-
The start we had, and December, is so fucking annoying now. 2 wins in that lot somewhere and we would be looking favourites to win it I reckon. As it is, I think we will come tragically 3rd. I think 2nd will need 93. Which has happened twice in the last few years. To get to there we will need to win 8 of the last 10.
Fulham are flying, but an injury to Mitrovic, Sessengon or Cairney from finding things much tougher. Win on Tuesday and I think 4 points in 9 games will be tough for them to make up on us, and they would have to win 8 and draw 1 to get the 25 they need to make it to 93.
Cardiff only need 20 though - 7 wins from their last 10 and they sit on 94. We need Derby, Brentford, Wolves and ourselves to stop them in their tracks I fear.
Wolves will only need 6 wins. They will make that.
-
It makes december even more frustrating/curious. One more win during would make a big difference now.
Cardiff lost four straight games during xmas.
Big frustration is how slow our start was. That should'nt have happened given we had most of last season to plan for this one.
Cardiff won their first five league games. We won one of our first seven.
By middle of September Cardiff pretty much had a 10 point head start on us so that's why it's been so tough to get infront of them.
Yep, I've taken a lot of grief on here from some for complaining about the start to the season but there really was no justification for how unprepared we looked in August. From about Christmas last season it was obvious which league we were going to be in and time needed to be used to find a way to play that worked for us but instead we muddled through into the summer and then muddled along until the end of the window before we started trying to work out how to use the squad. Despite all my complaints at the time I don't think December was as bad, I just hate constantly playing catch-up.
We're now in a great place and look like we might make it despite the poor start but I'd love to have another 7-8 points on the board right now and be right in the mix for the title.
Where Bruce, the players, the coaches, etc all deserve huge credit is that they've finally started acting like the big dog and going into games like this knowing that if we perform they won't be good enough to handle us. If we can keep that attitude for the rest of the season we'll get top2, if we'd had it from the summer we'd be going up with 100+ points on the board.
While I am as frustrated as the next bloke over our poor start, I can see some justification.
Firstly, we lost our main striker and had no money to replace him. We had to go with what we had which was Gabby, Hogan and young Davis. I think they had 3 goals between them in the previous season.
We then lost our playmaker a week before the season kicked off.
We struggled woefully up front, most notably at home to Hull & Boro
We also didn't bring in Snoddy until the end of the window which is another reason why we were so blunt up top in those first few matches.
There are games during the season where we sneaked wins, such as Sheff U, Sheff Wed & Boro away. Things have a habit of evening themselves out over 9 months.
It is what it is. We can only deal with what lies ahead, not what has already happened. It's pointless getting upset over it.
-
I personally don't see the point in harping on about the past, it's happened and to me it just seems an opportunity for some people to try and justify what they were saying this season and last about the manager instead of getting behind where we are now.
We had an iffy start and we had a bad December but despite that, we're in a good place, we're looking good and we can still do it.
-
It makes december even more frustrating/curious. One more win during would make a big difference now.
Cardiff lost four straight games during xmas.
Big frustration is how slow our start was. That should'nt have happened given we had most of last season to plan for this one.
Cardiff won their first five league games. We won one of our first seven.
By middle of September Cardiff pretty much had a 10 point head start on us so that's why it's been so tough to get infront of them.
Yep, I've taken a lot of grief on here from some for complaining about the start to the season but there really was no justification for how unprepared we looked in August. From about Christmas last season it was obvious which league we were going to be in and time needed to be used to find a way to play that worked for us but instead we muddled through into the summer and then muddled along until the end of the window before we started trying to work out how to use the squad. Despite all my complaints at the time I don't think December was as bad, I just hate constantly playing catch-up.
We're now in a great place and look like we might make it despite the poor start but I'd love to have another 7-8 points on the board right now and be right in the mix for the title.
Where Bruce, the players, the coaches, etc all deserve huge credit is that they've finally started acting like the big dog and going into games like this knowing that if we perform they won't be good enough to handle us. If we can keep that attitude for the rest of the season we'll get top2, if we'd had it from the summer we'd be going up with 100+ points on the board.
While I am as frustrated as the next bloke over our poor start, I can see some justification.
Firstly, we lost our main striker and had no money to replace him. We had to go with what we had which was Gabby, Hogan and young Davis. I think they had 3 goals between them in the previous season.
We then lost our playmaker a week before the season kicked off.
We struggled woefully up front, most notably at home to Hull & Boro
We also didn't bring in Snoddy until the end of the window which is another reason why we were so blunt up top in those first few matches.
There are games during the season where we sneaked wins, such as Sheff U, Sheff Wed & Boro away. Things have a habit of evening themselves out over 9 months.
It is what it is. We can only deal with what lies ahead, not what has already happened. It's pointless getting upset over it.
This.
-
Ten games left. In the previous 10 games we have a 10 point swing on Wolves, who are obviously 7 points clear of ourselves. So not beyond the realms of possibility.
Last 10 games:
Cardiff and Fulham: 26 points
Villa: 25
Wolves: 15
If all four teams continue roughly that level of form it's going to be extremely tight.
-
I personally don't see the point in harping on about the past, it's happened and to me it just seems an opportunity for some people to try and justify what they were saying this season and last about the manager instead of getting behind where we are now.
We had an iffy start and we had a bad December but despite that, we're in a good place, we're looking good and we can still do it.
Agreed. And I’m sure every club have had their moments that they wish they could do over again. If Fulham has been great all season they’d be top but their not. And Wolves will be bricking it now despite being healthy. We can only look forward and what looked concerning after Fulham, Preston and the first half of Sheff We’d has turned around again in spectacular fashion. So we need to capitalize on the recent run and especially last night and drive to he finish line. We can’t afford any more stumbles.
-
The start we had, and December, is so fucking annoying now. 2 wins in that lot somewhere and we would be looking favourites to win it I reckon. As it is, I think we will come tragically 3rd. I think 2nd will need 93. Which has happened twice in the last few years. To get to there we will need to win 8 of the last 10.
Fulham are flying, but an injury to Mitrovic, Sessengon or Cairney from finding things much tougher. Win on Tuesday and I think 4 points in 9 games will be tough for them to make up on us, and they would have to win 8 and draw 1 to get the 25 they need to make it to 93.
Cardiff only need 20 though - 7 wins from their last 10 and they sit on 94. We need Derby, Brentford, Wolves and ourselves to stop them in their tracks I fear.
Wolves will only need 6 wins. They will make that.
There's a difference between how many points the side in 2nd place got and how many was needed to finish top 2. 89 is the most any side finishing 3rd has got in the last decade.
There's been seasons where 79 points was enough for automatic promotion.
-
The start we had, and December, is so fucking annoying now. 2 wins in that lot somewhere and we would be looking favourites to win it I reckon. As it is, I think we will come tragically 3rd. I think 2nd will need 93. Which has happened twice in the last few years. To get to there we will need to win 8 of the last 10.
Fulham are flying, but an injury to Mitrovic, Sessengon or Cairney from finding things much tougher. Win on Tuesday and I think 4 points in 9 games will be tough for them to make up on us, and they would have to win 8 and draw 1 to get the 25 they need to make it to 93.
Cardiff only need 20 though - 7 wins from their last 10 and they sit on 94. We need Derby, Brentford, Wolves and ourselves to stop them in their tracks I fear.
Wolves will only need 6 wins. They will make that.
There's a difference between how many points the side in 2nd place got and how many was needed to finish top 2. 89 is the most any side finishing 3rd has got in the last decade.
There's been seasons where 79 points was enough for automatic promotion.
I accept that PWS, I was going on what the sides in second have got, my thinking being that this season with 3 clubs going into this stage in such strong form, it could well need that amount this year.
-
There's a predictor game here, if anyone fancies it:
http://www.worldfootball.net/table_calculator/eng-championship/
You have to go back to week 35 for the cancelled games in hand.
-
Record runs would occur if Villa, Fulham and Cardiff are all going just to keep winning. That's not the case for 1 let alone 3 teams to do.
Surprised if only one of those teams go unbeaten till end of season. And if any do then deserve to go automatic. (keeping wolves out of equation)
Consistency and momentum which all 3 have at this time but also the element of both luck and footyskillz will provide the teams as to which go up.
-
Ten games left. In the previous 10 games we have a 10 point swing on Wolves, who are obviously 7 points clear of ourselves. So not beyond the realms of possibility.
Last 10 games:
Cardiff and Fulham: 26 points
Villa: 25
Wolves: 15
If all four teams continue roughly that level of form it's going to be extremely tight.
Keep up!
Yep, but Fulham, Cardiff and Villa have all had incredible recent runs. For all 3 to keep that level up would be insane.
Last 10 games (W-D-L):
Wolves 4-3-3
Cardiff 7-2-1
Villa 8-1-1
Fulham 8-2-0
If all four averaged the same points per game for the rest of the season Wolves would finish level with Fulham on 91 points. Cardiff would finish on 96 and us on 94.
How funny would that be?!?!
-
Brighton only needed 86 to claim second last year (admittedly they made absolutely sure by securing 93).
So if that were to play out again, we'd need 17 points from our remaining 10 games.
Four home wins and two away wins out of that lot would be OK in that scenario. And is more than doable.
Requiring closer to the 92/93 mark (which increasingly looks the case) would require four home and four away. Which is obv much harder. We don't have the worst set of fixtures in the world. But dropping points in only two games between now and May is a tall order, to put it mildly.
-
Brighton only needed 86 to claim second last year (admittedly they made absolutely sure by securing 93).
So if that were to play out again, we'd need 17 points from our remaining 10 games.
Four home wins and two away wins out of that lot would be OK in that scenario. And is more than doable.
Requiring closer to the 92/93 mark (which increasingly looks the case) would require four home and four away. Which is obv much harder. We don't have the worst set of fixtures in the world. But dropping points in only two games between now and May is a tall order, to put it mildly.
It's what whoever finishes top two will do. And we'll be one of them.
-
Fulham have:
QPR H
Norwich A
Leeds H
Sheffield W A
Reading H
Brentford H
Mill wall A
Sunderland H
And a bye in the last match.
Maximum 2 draws there.
We’re going to finish 3rd.
-
There's a predictor game here, if anyone fancies it:
http://www.worldfootball.net/table_calculator/eng-championship/
You have to go back to week 35 for the cancelled games in hand.
Looking at those games, it seems almost impossible that Wolves will fuck it up. They seem to be at home to shite every week.
Wolves 101 (C)
Villa 94 (P)
-------------------------
Cardiff 89
Fulham 88
Boro 81
Bristol City 77
-----------------------
Blose 40 (R)
Sunderland 39 (R)
Burton 31 (R)
I'll take that...
-
Fulham have:
QPR H
Norwich A
Leeds H
Sheffield W A
Reading H
Brentford H
Mill wall A
Sunderland H
And a bye in the last match.
Maximum 2 draws there.
We’re going to finish 3rd.
If they draw twice then they'll end up 4th.
-
I had us winning the show.
All this shite about Fulham, who the fuck is going to stop us?
-
On the final day if we are relying on other results it could make a difference if your opponents having something important to play for.
Millwall v Us. 6 points off the play offs. We want them having missed out or carried on their present run and already be guaranteed play offs.
SHA v Fulham. Right now it looking like the noses will be dead and buried. We want them still in the mix needing points on the last day to survive.
Cardiff v Reading. Reading are 6 points off the drop zone, hopefully they are dragged in and fighting for their lives on the last day.
-
There's a predictor game here, if anyone fancies it:
http://www.worldfootball.net/table_calculator/eng-championship/
You have to go back to week 35 for the cancelled games in hand.
Wolves 98
Villa 93
Fulham 92
Derby 92
bumsqueak
-
We had our "wobble" in the middle of February. Let the rest worry about us now.
-
I still think Cardiff have got at least 3 wins in them. Reading, burton and a win against Derby. I think we are still going to have to win 7 of the remaining 10
-
Fulham won't get 90 in my opinion, remember the most they can get is 95 so they need 8 wins and a draw to get there which is a massive challenge, even with the form they've been in.
Onto Cardiff, as has been mentioned they've got a tough few weeks coming up where they need 5 wins and a couple of draws. Looking at their fixtures I suspect that's about the top limit, Brentford away is a tough game on Tuesday, followed by Derby on Sunday and they could easily drop points in both of those, if they play like they did yesterday, and give themselves a much tougher run in. Just like Bruce, Warnock is easily capable of losing his way for a few weeks and going on a 3-4 game winless run, I really wouldn't be surprised if it happens soon.
I think Wolves will finish the season much as they're going now, they're clearly struggling under the expectation and with Bonatini looking totally out of form they're not scoring many goals (this bit has been missed in the form tables above) and I can't see that changing. On that basis I expect them to finish with something like 91-92 points at best.
Which leaves us, I hope our wobble was cut off by coming from behind to beat Wednesday, that game felt pivotal to me, with the way we rolled over Sunderland and Wolves stemming from that.
Either way it's going to be tight and I can see all 4 finishing within 3-4 points of each other.
-
We have been giving them in recently. Since Brentford it's 12 games and 28 goals.
-
The thing that could play in our favour is that over the next few games we have our game in hand over Fulham; and have some very winnable looking games while Cardiff have a run of tough games
That could give us a psychological boost
Assuming we win of course.
As others have said, it would be almost unheard of for all four of us to win 70%+ of our final 10 games
We’ve seen time and again how up and down this league is
-
It's exciting, innit?
-
In my humble opinion, Wolves will probably go up as Champions and with continued application it is well within our grasp that Villa go up in second.
However, if it has to be through the play offs, I would much prefer to avoid Fulham at Wembley which would be a 50/50 match. I would strongly fancy our chances against Cardiff, Derby, Middlesboro, Bristol City etc in the play offs.
If we do not get automatic promotion, be better if Fulham go up with Wolves and then the door is really open for us through the play offs.
Overtake Cardiff in the league and one way or the other, I reckon we will get promotion. Happy Days.
-
Plenty of twists and turns to come. If football always ran to form bookies wouldn't exist and no one would watch it. I think when we have a full strength team (especially Grealish) then the post Xmas Villa looks like it can beat anyone on the day. I feel more confident now that we can win via the playoffs if that's what it takes.
-
Fulham fans given what they’ve seen of their team of late will be every bit as confident as us of bridging the gap to second. Of course they will be hoping we fuck up our game in hand. But in terms of pure form them and Cardiff have every reason to be confident of winning a lot of the their remaining games. This won’t be easy.
And if I was a Wolves fan, I’d be bricking it. They might have privately thought we’d beat them. They never saw it being a battering. Their confidence will be a little fragile today.
-
Fulham fans given what they’ve seen of their team of late will be every bit as confident as us of bridging the gap to second. Of course they will be hoping we fuck up our game in hand. But in terms of pure form them and Cardiff have every reason to be confident of winning a lot of the their remaining games. This won’t be easy.
And if I was a Wolves fan, I’d be bricking it. They might have privately thought we’d beat them. They never saw it being a battering. Their confidence will be a little fragile today.
It's not just one team after them either, they've got three of the most in form sides in Europe hunting them down.
-
Fulham fans given what they’ve seen of their team of late will be every bit as confident as us of bridging the gap to second. Of course they will be hoping we fuck up our game in hand. But in terms of pure form them and Cardiff have every reason to be confident of winning a lot of the their remaining games. This won’t be easy.
And if I was a Wolves fan, I’d be bricking it. They might have privately thought we’d beat them. They never saw it being a battering. Their confidence will be a little fragile today.
It's not just one team after them either, they've got three of the most in form sides in Europe hunting them down.
Fuck yeah.
-
I have us two points clear of Cardiff by Saturday night, 4 points clear after the Reading game, 4 points clear after Norwich as Fulham overtake Cardiff, six points clear of Fulham after Ipswich away and promoted.
We'll draw at Norwich and lose 2-1 with massive hangovers at Millwall.
Wolves 106
Villa 94
Fulham 91
Cardiff 86
Boro 81
Derby 78
Oh and the Rags get relegated on goal difference with 39 points, equal with Barnsley.
-
Well all this is good however as exciting as the performance against Wolves was we still only got 3 points. We need to forget that match and concentrate on Rangers tomorrow. Both players and fans.
-
Well all this is good however as exciting as the performance against Wolves was we still only got 3 points. We need to forget that match and concentrate on Rangers tomorrow. Both players and fans.
Agreed. We need to do this again against all of the sides that we should expect to beat. Expectations have been raised because of Saturday and rightfully so, but it’s no good following that up with a poor display where we throw away points. Fortunately I believe there is a high level of professionalism running through the squad now, and with a quarter of the season left to go everyone will be focused on the mission. Saturday will have raised their self belief and I hope we see it again tomorrow.
-
If we win on Tuesday, then 4 points to Fulham is a two game turn around for them. This for me gives them no room for error, as any points they drop in their remaining 9 is another game gone and a further game to turn around. They will drop points, when you least expect it too.
I look at our remaining 10 and then the performance we put in on the weekend, the quality that oozes throughout the side and the volume of goals in it, the leaders all over the pitch, a proper goal scorer up top and I just feel very bullish.
-
Expectations have been raised because of Saturday and rightfully so, but it’s no good following that up with a poor display where we throw away points. Fortunately I believe there is a high level of professionalism running through the squad now, and with a quarter of the season left to go everyone will be focused on the mission. Saturday will have raised their self belief and I hope we see it again tomorrow.
My expectations have been fixed all season, I expected us to be automatically promoted given the investment we've made. It's taken far too long but hopefully we'll now continue to deliver with our superior squad and finish the season in style.
Agree about the professionalism. Bruce deserves credit not for bringing in experience but experienced players with the right mentality, none more so than Snodgrass who for me has been the catalyst of our team this season. For too long we allowed the players to rely on the game changers rather than step up and be the game changer themselves. Think back when Albert was on a hot streak. Now we have everybody chipping in with goals. It's some achievement considering we don't have at least one 20+ goalscorer in attack.
-
That's about where I am with Fulham as well, they are in great form but as the pressure to win every game comes on they could easily choke.
Cardiff are the problem for me, we need them to fuck up in the next 2-3 games so we're within 3 when they come to us. If we can beat them to get into the top 2 I think the fans will drag the team over the line and then our fate is in our own hands.
-
Interestingly, this time last year the Jawdies and Brighton were first and second on 77 points each. Huddersfield were third on 71 and Leeds fourth on 66. We were a distant 12th on 48 with Cardiff on the same points at 13th.. I can't believe btw that Burnley are currently seventh in the PL having scored just 27 goals - just four more than WBA.
-
I think we will win our next 3, so its a big 3 games for Wolves too. If they take anything less than 5 points then I think they'll really start to feel the squeeze. They could be 2nd and only 3 points in front of us.
Saturday was big as we played under the immense pressure of Cardiff and Fulham having won, and what a reaction it was. But it was also the first time in months the Wolves have had any realistic pressure on them and they choked.
-
Yep, we need to do the reverse to Cardiff at the weekend and see if they've got the balls to get 3 points under pressure away at Derby. If they drop points at Brentford tomorrow (which is a tough game) and we beat QPR then that pressure will be huge. The advantage Wolves have is they've got, on paper, 2 fairly routine home games coming up. Boro is the interesting one for them at the end of the month.
-
Reading are in rank form. The only comfort would be they actually pummeled the Wolves earlier in the season and ended up losing.
-
Cardiff are the problem for me, we need them to fuck up in the next 2-3 games so we're within 3 when they come to us. If we can beat them to get into the top 2 I think the fans will drag the team over the line and then our fate is in our own hands.
I watched the first half of their game on Saturday and they looked really poor, as bad as we've been on our worst days. Apparently they were even worse 2nd half. Like us for a large part of this season, they got the result but don't be fooled by it, you can see they're not functioning, playing poorly and a bad spell is just around the corner.
-
Cardiff are the problem for me, we need them to fuck up in the next 2-3 games so we're within 3 when they come to us. If we can beat them to get into the top 2 I think the fans will drag the team over the line and then our fate is in our own hands.
I watched the first half of their game on Saturday and they looked really poor, as bad as we've been on our worst days. Apparently they were even worse 2nd half. Like us for a large part of this season, they got the result but don't be fooled by it, you can see they're not functioning, playing poorly and a bad spell is just around the corner.
Oh I agree (I said a much a day or 2 back), I just don't want them to sneak a couple more wins in the same way and get out of their bad spell having not dropped points.
-
Cardiff stick out like a sore thumb when you look at quality of football in the top 4. We’ve seen ourselves how quickly things can turn when you’re winning games without deserving to. I’d rather be in our position, or Fulham’s, than theirs, i.e. putting in performances and gaining momentum as opposed to hanging on.
It’s a big ask to not drop points by grinding out 10 results without playing well. If he manages that then Colin is manager of the season.
-
Be interesting to see how Cardiff get on in the next 2 games, tough away at Brentford and Derby on Sunday.
-
I had Cardiff second on 92 with that predictor. Us and Fulham level on 90. Tonight is even bigger that Sat was, because its the game that consolidates that result. Win tonight and hope Dean Smith does us a huge favour.
-
I can't see Cardiff hitting 90. They're performances are poor, they're grinding games out by the skin of their teeth and they're without key players. I get the feeling that a break in the momentum will have a knock on effect.
-
Tonight Cardiff will have 29% possession, 2 shots and will win 1-0 In the 87th minute.
-
Tonight Cardiff will have 29% possession, 2 shots and will win 1-0 In the 87th minute.
They have something rediculous like 59% pass completion and average of about 250 passes a game too. Awful football team.
-
I keep reading about how poor Cardiff are yet they keep winning. No matter how ugly their style of play is, Warnock and his team deserve credit and our respect. They're even doing it with Joe Bennett in their team!
-
team of the season for me - no money to speak of but they came out of the traps in August like Warnock had coated their bollocks in industrial strength mustard and they haven't been outside the top six since. Ugly ? Yes. Antediluvian? Yes. 3 points off top? Yes.
-
He's done well because his style allows it, big long balls and percentage football round the box.
I'll put money on it now that they wont leave the pitch against us with 11 men though.
-
He's done well because his style allows it, big long balls and percentage football round the box.
I'll put money on it now that they wont leave the pitch against us with 11 men though.
I agree, for the first time in over 5 years we are no longer a side that gets bullied
-
I’m worried that grealish will leave the Cardiff game on a stretcher
-
When we're 4-0 up he'll be pulled off at half time. Rest of the team only get oranges though.
/baddumtish
-
I’m worried that grealish will leave the Cardiff game on a stretcher
Don’t worry, JT will ensure the right refereeing performance.
-
Dismal night. Need to pretty much win out for automatic which seems unlikely.
-
Second ain't realistic now I'm afraid.
Just make sure we finish 3/4th and get the second leg at VP.
And hope Fulham finish second as we wouldn't beat them in the play offs.
-
Pulis does for Villa in the play-offs. You heard it here first.
-
I'm probably more negative than most, but there is a long way to go.
Fulham will be happy tonight, still a point behind.
Shite feeling after Saturday, for sure.
-
A three game swing needed for automatic contention, with nine games left. Unless something Devon Loch-like happens in South Wales, we've done our money.
-
Hull have come into form just as they come up on our radar, need to get a win at Bolton first.
-
We are still in it. We need Wolves to give Cardiff a right hiding, and hope we can do the same.
Admittedly we've got no chance if we've got any more performances like tonight up our sleeve.
-
If Fulham have a chance of 2nd so do we.
We can afford 1 more loss and 2 more draws.
A minimum of 810 minutes left of football this season. It's harder than it was but loads of time left, 20%of the season.
-
Bottlejobs. Fulham will dick us in the play offs.
-
Fuck off will they. Grow some testicles.
-
If Fulham have a chance of 2nd so do we.
We can afford 1 more loss and 2 more draws.
A minimum of 810 minutes left of football this season. It's harder than it was but loads of time left, 20%of the season.
I don’t think we do. If we lose a game, draw two and we’re already 3 games behind them, we’re bascislly Cardiff have to drop points in 6 of the remaining 9 games.
-
Cardiff will drop points. We were going to win 4 or 5 tonight. Things change. Time to re-group.
Still 6 wins needed. Just less margin for error.
-
If Derby actually front up and beat Cardiff and we've pulled the gap back to four by the international break, there's a chance. Get players fit for the home stretch and pile all of our energies into beating Cardiff. There's one chance - a chance not entirely in our hands - but there can't be any more fuck ups. I don't think we can lose again.
-
Either way, you've got to keep beliving.You cannot throw the towel in now.
-
Cardiff will drop points. We were going to win 4 or 5 tonight. Things change. Time to re-group.
Still 6 wins needed. Just less margin for error.
Probably need more than 6 wins now as I fully expected Cardiff to draw. They have some easy home games left like Burton and Reading.
We are usually good at home, tonight was an shocker which I didn't see coming.
Away will be our problem. Don't see us winning at Norwich or Millwall.
-
Every game is nervy, but this Bolton game especially so. Not only is it another "should win", but at VP they were the biggest bunch of overphysical, fouling twats you'd ever hate to play. The fact the referee was as weak as piss only added to the frustration.
-
2nd has gone. We need to end the season in decent form and prepare ourselves for the play offs.
-
Either way, you've got to keep beliving.You cannot throw the towel in now.
Totally agree but I really don't fancy our chances in the play offs.
-
Either way, you've got to keep beliving.You cannot throw the towel in now.
Totally agree but I really don't fancy our chances in the play offs.
Why? You don't even know who we would play
-
Still a long way to go, come on Villa.
-
Well, that was shitting the bed in no uncertain terms. Forget about automatic promotion, it’s gone.
-
The form of Cardiff and Fulham beggars belief. Our form is promotion form, result wise, even with tonight. Surely surely the other two can’t keep winning every game ?
-
Warnock has done just a phenomenal job
-
Either way, you've got to keep beliving.You cannot throw the towel in now.
Totally agree but I really don't fancy our chances in the play offs.
Why? You don't even know who we would play
Be it Fulham. .boro. .or whoever...I just think come the play off''s we'll be the team to be shot at and I just don't think we'll have the mental toughness to deal with not getting automatic promotion and having to pay teams that have been behind us for such a long part of the season.
-
2nd has probably gone. Even if we take 20 points from the last 9 games, W6 D2 L1, Cardiff only need W4 D2 L3 to top it. They've won 8 in a row, if they win only 5 of their last 9 and lose the other 4 we'd need at least W7 D1 L1 to potentially top them on GD. It's a big ask, and while it's possible I think it's realistically the play-offs now.
-
We are going to be seriously fucked if we don’t go up.
-
The form of Cardiff and Fulham beggars belief. Our form is promotion form, result wise, even with tonight. Surely surely the other two can’t keep winning every game ?
I agree with this. Their form is relentless and astonishing. I think Cardiff may even win the league.
Not giving up on it yet but to find ourselves even further away after 31 points in the last 13 games is pretty tough.
-
Yes that's the killer for me.
Even if the gap tonight remained 4 points there's still plenty of time left.
For it to actually be extended when we've been mostly winning for the last three months is really deflating.
Don't see us overhauling the 7 points now tbh.
-
If we miss out to Cardiff, which we will, and don't go up it should be viewed as a massive failure. Cardiff have spent a pittance compared to us over the past couple of years and I doubt most people could name more than one of their players. To get out thought and outdone by dinosaur Warnock is embarrassing.
-
The form of Cardiff and Fulham beggars belief. Our form is promotion form, result wise, even with tonight. Surely surely the other two can’t keep winning every game ?
First loss at home in 4 months and we find our selves 7 points off auto spot.The form of those 2 is outstanding you have to say , people keep saying Cardiff will lose well they have only 9 games left and at this point can lose 2 and still keep a one point gap to us .
Play off wise Fulham will be tough to see past due to their form but Boro are also looking good now throw in 2 ex villa players in Gestede and Traore and the headlines write themselves ..
At this stage the only thing to focus on is winning Saturday after that we get a small break and perhaps with a bit of Luck Derby might do us a favour and takes some points off Cardiff
-
Cardiff can drop 10 points and we would need to win 8 and draw one to top them. They don't look like wobbling do they and looking at their fixtures I can't see them dropping too many points...games vs Villa, Wolves and Derby being the most likely. Fulham won't be catching them either and I really don't fancy facing Fulham in a one off showdown...assuming we don't bottle it in the "semi".
Decembers results are coming back to haunt us...
Having said that, since Jan 1st Cardiff have gone LWDWDWWWWWWW. Lost to QPR ironically enough...
-
Gestede is injured for rest of the season. Adama is playing very well though.
I reckon we'd take Boro over two legs. They hardly had a shot at the Riverside. One off final is obviously different kettle of fish.
The only team I don't want to play at any point in the play offs is Fulham so if we tail off I really hope they can overhaul Cardiff.
Again I reckon we could beat Cardiff over two legs especially as they would be deflated coming into the play offs.
-
The focus now is achieve the play offs and try to have momentum and the strongest team available.
-
It's worth remembering Cardiff had a terrible run over xmas aswell.
I still maintain our 1 win in 7 start will cost us in the end and given we knew Kodjia wouldn't be fit for start of the season and we had most of last season to plan that was inexcusable.
-
It's worth remembering Cardiff had a terrible run over xmas aswell.
I still maintain our 1 win in 7 start will cost us in the end and given we knew Kodjia wouldn't be fit for start of the season and we had most of last season to plan that was inexcusable.
Totally..playing catch up from the off doesn't leave room for error.
-
We just have to go for it full hammer now. If either Cardiff or Fulham drop any points we simply have to capitalise.
-
The only team I don't want to play at any point in the play offs is Fulham so if we tail off I really hope they can overhaul Cardiff.
Mate Fulham have even less chance than us of catching Cardiff.
-
Still a long way to go, come on Villa.
No. Not with 9 games left and 7 points adrift.
-
In terms of play offs if we could get Kodjia back even if he is only able to play 30 mins or so could be huge for us as he is the one striker we have able to score from nothing
-
The only team I don't want to play at any point in the play offs is Fulham so if we tail off I really hope they can overhaul Cardiff.
Mate Fulham have even less chance than us of catching Cardiff.
Fulham have an easier run in than us. I can see them overtaking us next few weeks so they'll be the ones to pounce if Cardiff get tight in the last six games.
-
Nothing is over with 27 points to play for.
You don't achieve anything in life by being a quitter. Anything you've achieved in life, you've worked at it and believed in the work you put into it. It's why they're achievements.
All we can do is put one on Bolton and see if Derby can close the gap to 5/4 points. Then pressure builds and momentum breaks.
And if Cardiff win all 9 games, then you have to say well done and look to the Play Offs.
-
Nothing is over with 27 points to play for.
You don't achieve anything in life by being a quitter. Anything you've achieved in life, you've worked at it and believed in the work you put into it. It's why they're achievements.
All we can do is put one on Bolton and see if Derby can close the gap to 5/4 points. Then pressure builds and momentum breaks.
And if Cardiff win all 9 games, then you have to say well done and look to the Play Offs.
Agreed. Well said.
-
Nothing is over with 27 points to play for.
You don't achieve anything in life by being a quitter. Anything you've achieved in life, you've worked at it and believed in the work you put into it. It's why they're achievements.
All we can do is put one on Bolton and see if Derby can close the gap to 5/4 points. Then pressure builds and momentum breaks.
And if Cardiff win all 9 games, then you have to say well done and look to the Play Offs.
Agreed. Well said.
Seconded
-
It isn't over, at the same time it's become unlikely we'll finish top 2.
-
Nothing is over with 27 points to play for.
You don't achieve anything in life by being a quitter. Anything you've achieved in life, you've worked at it and believed in the work you put into it. It's why they're achievements.
All we can do is put one on Bolton and see if Derby can close the gap to 5/4 points. Then pressure builds and momentum breaks.
And if Cardiff win all 9 games, then you have to say well done and look to the Play Offs.
Agreed. Well said.
Seconded
Nice one. My thoughts entirely. I'll say we're fucked when we mathematically are.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
Could be four points again after the next round of games. 8)
-
Could also be 10. We're hoping a side that hasn't won for 7 games will beat a side that has won 7 on the spin. Of course it could happen, anything could, but realistically we need Cardiff to do a Devon Loch and the gits show no signs of doing it.
-
Could also be 10. We're hoping a side that hasn't won for 7 games will beat a side that has won 7 on the spin. Of course it could happen, anything could, but realistically we need Cardiff to do a Devon Loch and the gits show no signs of doing it.
If it does become a ten point gap even I will stop believing, I think.
-
Am I safe in saying that whatever happens it's an improvement on last season or shall I get me coat??
-
Nine games ago we were five points behind Derby and level with Bristol City. Cardiff were 12 behind Wolves.
Fulham and Cardiff are on incredible runs at the moment and we’re all talking as if those runs will keep going as they are. Football, this division and the law of averages suggest they won’t.
There are so many twists and turns ahead, just enjoy the fun of it - much more interesting than being a mid-table Premier League side out of both cups like we have been so often at this time of year.
Come on Villa!
-
Am I safe in saying that whatever happens it's an improvement on last season or shall I get me coat??
I actually thought the same.
-
Problem is there are now only 9 games left. We're hoping that a side that has lost 7 out of 37 is going to lose at least 4 out of 9. I'm still hoping we finish top 2, I just think that it's very unlikely.
-
Nothing is over with 27 points to play for.
You don't achieve anything in life by being a quitter. Anything you've achieved in life, you've worked at it and believed in the work you put into it. It's why they're achievements.
All we can do is put one on Bolton and see if Derby can close the gap to 5/4 points. Then pressure builds and momentum breaks.
And if Cardiff win all 9 games, then you have to say well done and look to the Play Offs.
Agreed. Well said.
Seconded
Nice one. My thoughts entirely. I'll say we're fucked when we mathematically are.
Realism v unicorns.
I’m with Nunkin and the unicorns.
-
Thing is, we've got 3 away games this month. All against teams struggling at the bottom but all who will be fighting for their lives. As i said on a earlier post, we have to be in striking difference by the end of the month to take advantage of cardiff's perceived hard run of games in April. Now if you're a team in 3rd, you'd expect to pick up 7 points minimum from those games. Add in the qpr game and wolves and you'd hope for 11 points overall minimum or 74 points at the end of March (maybe 71 if the qpr game hasn't been played). Obviously that target relies on Cardiff playing like a team in 2nd place. 71 or 74 points at that stage would be on target and not exactly incredible form so if we're under the 73 point barrier (5 games played) or 70 point barrier (4 games played) by then i'd say we've blown it and don't deserve to go up
Ignoring the appalling result tonight, we're still on target for 12 points in March or 75 points which is what i would have hoped for to allow us a go at Cardiff in April. Any dropped points now though in the next two games and it's looking increasingly like its slipping away from us.
-
4 things must happen for us to have a chance of finishing in an automatic spot;
1st we must win a minimum of 7 from 9,
2nd one of those 7 must be the home game against Cardiff,
3rd we probably need Wolves to win their game against Cardiff also,
4th We need to match Fulhams points haul with both having 9 games left.
If all these happen then I think we'll still go up automatically. If not then we'll be looking at the play offs (were oddly i'd actually fancy us and think that's the most exciting way to get promoted as a supporter anyway).
-
If not then we'll be looking at the play offs (were oddly i'd actually fancy us and think that's the most exciting way to get promoted as a supporter anyway).
It's also the most cruel way to miss out on promotion.
-
Currently 7th are Sheffield Utd, who are in course for 74 points. 2 more wins will get us past that. Then I would want us to avoid Fulham in the playoff semi finals.
-
I was hoping that having slept on it I would have woken up feeling more positive than I was last night but nope, we have blown it for automatic promotion.
-
Fuck it, let’s win the Wembley Play Off Cup. 🤞
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
-
There is no room for error now. We'd be better putting the blinkers on for the next three games,. ignoring what everybody else is doing and stick 9 points on against Bolton, Hull and Reading and see where we are before the Cardiff game.
We could be 2 points in front, 1 point in front, level on points, 1 point behind, 4 points behind or 7 etc and so on. In just three games.
Don't bottle it now.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
We were in second place for one match, after which the team crapped itself, like it did last night. It’s mathematically possible to still get automatic promotion of course, but in reality extremely unlikely.
-
6 wins and 3 draws needed, I hadn't updated my thingy-ma-jig last night.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
We were in second place for one match, after which the team crapped itself, like it did last night. It’s mathematically possible to still get automatic promotion of course, but in reality extremely unlikely.
We can't just throw the towel in though. Cardiff becomes a must win game and if we can beat them, we only need a two game turn around. Winning on Saturday, coupled with Derby winning the following day puts us right back in it.
-
The big matches at home take care of themselves. So I think no problem in motivating that and more confident of beating Cardiff that I am of Bolton or Hull away.
Norwich away lunchtime will be interesting but now is time to just win next game as Brucey says plenty of surprises and twists and turns so thinking something will happen to Cardiff when less expecting.
Agree though about 7 points next 3 matches 9 would be great
-
6 wins and 3 draws needed, I hadn't updated my thingy-ma-jig last night.
That would give us 90 points. To beat that, Cardiff only need 5 wins and could afford 4 defeats. Or 4 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeats.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
We were in second place for one match, after which the team crapped itself, like it did last night. It’s mathematically possible to still get automatic promotion of course, but in reality extremely unlikely.
I agree it looks pretty bleak. But one round of results can make a very big difference and Cardiff have to play us and Wolves.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
We were in second place for one match, after which the team crapped itself, like it did last night. It’s mathematically possible to still get automatic promotion of course, but in reality extremely unlikely.
But one round of results can make a very big difference and Cardiff have to play us
You are not making me feel any more positive
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
We were in second place for one match, after which the team crapped itself, like it did last night. It’s mathematically possible to still get automatic promotion of course, but in reality extremely unlikely.
But one round of results can make a very big difference and Cardiff have to play us
You are not making me feel any more positive
Fair point, but ultimately we do have to beat them and frankly we should.
-
I would back this team to beat anyone in the division at home in a must win game. The poorest results have come against lesser sides when the atmosphere has been near silent.
-
Fuck it, go and win the next three and see where the land lies. Fulham and Cardiff will definitely drop points, we'll have to see whether that's enough though.
-
Not even third favourites to go up now apparently.
-
I would back this team to beat anyone in the division at home in a must win game. The poorest results have come against lesser sides when the atmosphere has been near silent.
Which is why I'd be quietly confident in the play offs. We'd be the club to fear out of all of them.
-
Cardiff won’t have to win all 9. It’s great being all Braveheart about things, but it’s over, forget it. There was very little margin for error with a four point gap, and tonight we blew it.
There's been plenty of times this season when people have said it's all over after bad results, only for things to turn round pretty quickly.
Last night was disastrous, but it is far from all over. Do you think Fulham think it's all over? There will be plenty of twists and turns before this season is out.
put another way Warnock v Bruce, ones pragmatic the other is a chancer. im pretty much in the Wembley way camp. playing old legs 72 hours after a great but exhausting game, was asking for trouble.
-
Am I safe in saying that whatever happens it's an improvement on last season or shall I get me coat??
I actually thought the same.
I don't think we will go down now !
In all seriousness though I think some people have taken the points for granted in some of the games - Preston, QPR and Fulham spring to mind.
Did anyone foresee last nights` shambles though?
-
I would back this team to beat anyone in the division at home in a must win game. The poorest results have come against lesser sides when the atmosphere has been near silent.
The only problem with what you say here is that QPR was a 'must-win' game because three points were available, our rivals are not losing like us, we didn't win and are now unlikely to be taking an automatic promotion spot. :-/
-
I'm gona take one for the team ..im going to bet on Cardiff to win every time they play , with my betting record I'm confident I can jinx them ....
-
End of the day we have to win our next two games. Do that and at worse we're 7 points off Cardiff coming into April. Then Cardiff have us, sheffield United away, and Wolves at home. I'm willing to bet there's points dropped in those 3 games and then its 4 games to go with us possibly 3 points behind. Anything can happen. If they come through that period still 7 points ahead then fair play they deserve to go up.
-
End of the day we have to win our next two games. Do that and at worse we're 7 points off Cardiff coming into April. Then Cardiff have us, sheffield United away, and Wolves at home. I'm willing to bet there's points dropped in those 3 games and then its 4 games to go with us possibly 3 points behind. Anything can happen. If they come through that period still 7 points ahead then fair play they deserve to go up.
Exactly. We need to go on a long winning run then just see what happens.
-
We have developed into a team that has proven that we do well in the big games with big crowds- Small Heath then Wolves- so if we do end up in the play offs it augers well for us. Every cloud as they say!
-
loving that optimism - there was no bigger incentive than yesterday to win ( PL auto promotion) and we dicked ourselves again.
-
(https://thenamiracleoccurs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/miracle2.jpg?w=530&h=366)
-
loving that optimism - there was no bigger incentive than yesterday to win ( PL auto promotion) and we dicked ourselves again.
There was a big incentive to win on Saturday as well and we didn't 'dick ourselves again' then. We lost last night, we wasn't good enough. It happens and it'll happen again. Simple as that really.
-
I don't think that anybody expected us to win every one of our remaining 10 games prior to last night. Most accepted that we would lose one between Saturday and the end of the season. Well we've now lost that game so need to go 9 unbeaten.
I think that it was Cardiff winning as much as us losing that has got most people worrying. Cardiff's loss/losses are yet to come. There is no reason why we can't see our last 9 games out unbeaten. We have a 1 point advantage over Fulham and Cardiff to play at Villa Park. It's still possible to get the 7 wins that most people said that we needed. 7 wins and 2 draws puts us on 92 points. If we can do that, it's still possible to reach 2nd. Even 6 wins and 3 draws would put us on 90 points.
There is no more room for slip ups. Forget about the other teams, we can't influence what they do. We have 3 away games out of the next 4. 10 points from those games will see us needing the same from 3 home games out of 4 going into Millwall final game. Cardiff have us, Sheffield United and Derby away, as well as Wolves at home. All last night has meant is that we have 9 games instead of 10 in which to reach our points target.
-
I don't think that anybody expected us to win every one of our remaining 10 games prior to last night. Most accepted that we would lose one between Saturday and the end of the season. Well we've now lost that game so need to go 9 unbeaten.
I think that it was Cardiff winning as much as us losing that has got most people worrying. Cardiff's loss/losses are yet to come. There is no reason why we can't see our last 9 games out unbeaten. We have a 1 point advantage over Fulham and Cardiff to play at Villa Park. It's still possible to get the 7 wins that most people said that we needed. 7 wins and 2 draws puts us on 92 points. If we can do that, it's still possible to reach 2nd. Even 6 wins and 3 draws would put us on 90 points.
There is no more room for slip ups. Forget about the other teams, we can't influence what they do. We have 3 away games out of the next 4. 10 points from those games will see us needing the same from 3 home games out of 4 going into Millwall final game. Cardiff have us, Sheffield United and Derby away, as well as Wolves at home. All last night has meant is that we have 9 games instead of 10 in which to reach our points target.
I don't get this thing about people saying we needed another 7 wins or 90 points. Just because people say it, doesn't make it in any way true. If we do finish on 90, Cardiff could lose to us and Wolves, and still lose two other matches if they won the other 5. We have no room for errors at all, and Cardiff do.
-
I don't think i have a reputation for being optimistic at all especially where Bruce is concerned, so i don't think it's talking miracles to expect Cardiff to drop points playing us, sheffield u and Wolves. As i said 7 points behind at the start of april, beat them obviously, that's 4 points behind, if they draw against sheffield United or Wolves, then that's 3 points maximum. With 4 games to go after that, then it's game on IMO. If we can't beat cardiff then we don't deserve to go up - likewise if we drop points in the next 2 games.
-
I don't think that anybody expected us to win every one of our remaining 10 games prior to last night. Most accepted that we would lose one between Saturday and the end of the season. Well we've now lost that game so need to go 9 unbeaten.
I think that it was Cardiff winning as much as us losing that has got most people worrying. Cardiff's loss/losses are yet to come. There is no reason why we can't see our last 9 games out unbeaten. We have a 1 point advantage over Fulham and Cardiff to play at Villa Park. It's still possible to get the 7 wins that most people said that we needed. 7 wins and 2 draws puts us on 92 points. If we can do that, it's still possible to reach 2nd. Even 6 wins and 3 draws would put us on 90 points.
There is no more room for slip ups. Forget about the other teams, we can't influence what they do. We have 3 away games out of the next 4. 10 points from those games will see us needing the same from 3 home games out of 4 going into Millwall final game. Cardiff have us, Sheffield United and Derby away, as well as Wolves at home. All last night has meant is that we have 9 games instead of 10 in which to reach our points target.
I don't get this thing about people saying we needed another 7 wins or 90 points. Just because people say it, doesn't make it in any way true. If we do finish on 90, Cardiff could lose to us and Wolves, and still lose two other matches if they won the other 5. We have no room for errors at all, and Cardiff do.
But you think we're out of it because we dropped 3 points.
We can get the gap back down to 4 on Saturday. Cardiff then have Derby & Sheffield United away as well as Wolves and Burton at home before they play us. It is not beyond the realms of fantasy to think that we may have pulled back that gap further before we meet, meaning a win would see us go above them.
I don't want to be in this position and would never have envisaged Cardiff going on a 7 game winning streak but we are where we are. My attitude is to keep on battling and hold the inquest at the end of the season IF we don't reach our goal.
We needed 7 wins before last night - Nothing has changed other than we have one less game in which to do it. I agree we have no room for errors but this is where we are with it. Stop worrying about other teams, concentrate on what we can do and if we make further errors then we don't deserve to get auto.
-
Christ....
-
Christ....
I think we need his intervention...
-
No, I agree with Brassneck.
If your assumption is that Cardiff will just keep on winning regardless or maybe only lose the one game, then put bid for automatic has been over for some time.
If you think that you're wrong. And you don't need to believe in the powers of motivation from awful, fucking awful, shite like Braveheart to think so.
-
If over the last 9 games Cardiff have a record of W5 D1 L3 then we'd need to win 8 to definitely finish above them. A record of W7 D2 may be enough for us to finish above them on GD.
-
No, I agree with Brassneck.
If your assumption is that Cardiff will just keep on winning regardless or maybe only lose the one game, then put bid for automatic has been over for some time.
If you think that you're wrong. And you don't need to believe in the powers of motivation from awful, fucking awful, shite like Braveheart to think so.
As I said before, they can afford to lose more than that, and that assumes we win just about all of ours including beating them.
-
Risso, its been about 12 hours since you mentioned Braveheart and I'm yet to get over it. Hurt me right in the history pedantic feels you did.
-
Just breaking it down into the 4 games we play before Cardiff and the 4 games we play afterwards (we have to beat Cardiff otherwise I think 99% of us will agree that it's curtains.
I believe that out of Derby & Sheffield United away and Wolves & Burton at home, Cardiff will drop points in at least 2 of those games.
We need 10 points from Bolton, Hull, Norwich away and Reading at home.
By the time we play them, we could be within touching distance of them if we can achieve 10 points.
The 4 games afterwards, Cardiff have Norwich & Hull away and Forest & Reading at home. The pressure could well and truly be on them by then. Likewise with us, Leeds & Derby at home, Millwall & Ipswich away. If we are level with Cardiff or a point either way after we play them, I'd back us to get more points in the pressure cooker situation that the last 4 games would bring.
-
Risso, its been about 12 hours since you mentioned Braveheart and I'm yet to get over it. Hurt me right in the history pedantic feels you did.
Sorry, that was uncalled for. Would a comparison to Churchill's "fight them on the beaches" speech have been more like it? ;)
-
Just breaking it down into the 4 games we play before Cardiff and the 4 games we play afterwards (we have to beat Cardiff otherwise I think 99% of us will agree that it's curtains.
I believe that out of Derby & Sheffield United away and Wolves & Burton at home, Cardiff will drop points in at least 2 of those games.
We need 10 points from Bolton, Hull, Norwich away and Reading at home.
By the time we play them, we could be within touching distance of them if we can achieve 10 points.
The 4 games afterwards, Cardiff have Norwich & Hull away and Forest & Reading at home. The pressure could well and truly be on them by then. Likewise with us, Leeds & Derby at home, Millwall & Ipswich away. If we are level with Cardiff or a point either way after we play them, I'd back us to get more points in the pressure cooker situation that the last 4 games would bring.
Why do you think that when Cardiff have already proven they handle pressure better than we do?
-
Just breaking it down into the 4 games we play before Cardiff and the 4 games we play afterwards (we have to beat Cardiff otherwise I think 99% of us will agree that it's curtains.
I believe that out of Derby & Sheffield United away and Wolves & Burton at home, Cardiff will drop points in at least 2 of those games.
We need 10 points from Bolton, Hull, Norwich away and Reading at home.
By the time we play them, we could be within touching distance of them if we can achieve 10 points.
The 4 games afterwards, Cardiff have Norwich & Hull away and Forest & Reading at home. The pressure could well and truly be on them by then. Likewise with us, Leeds & Derby at home, Millwall & Ipswich away. If we are level with Cardiff or a point either way after we play them, I'd back us to get more points in the pressure cooker situation that the last 4 games would bring.
Why do you think that when Cardiff have already proven they handle pressure better than we do?
Because there has been no pressure yet. You get it down to the last 4 games, with us both still battling and I think that our players will handle it better. They are older and many have experienced it before.
The real pressure will only start when the finishing line is in sight, not with 9 or 10 games to go.
-
winning 4 or 5 games in a row isn't really much of a big thing in this league or the opposite so i would be very surprised if cardiff continue in that vein till the end of season. you look at the top 6 and in the last 5 games you've got point totals ranging from 4 out of 15 to 15 out of 15. If we've learnt anything this season it's that anyone can beat anyone in this league and normally do.
-
AV last 4 games under Graham Taylor, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, drawn.
Finished runners up to Liverpool who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 4 games under BFR, fighting for the league title:
Won, lost, lost, lost.
Finished runners up to Man U who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 5 games under Ron Saunders, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, won, lost.
Won the league ahead of Ipswich whose final 5 results were:
Lost, lost, won, lost, lost.
Neither team had previous experience of challenging for the title.
AV last 5 games promotion under Graham Taylor:
Lost, drew, won, won, drew.
Promoted and all rivals dropped similar amounts of points.
Now I'm not saying that this happens all the time but speaking as a Villa fan who is old enough to remember all of those run ins, form and football goes out of the window in those final few games. The pressure is like nothing you have experienced for the bulk of the season. look at the Man Us, the Liverpools and the Chelseas when they won titles - They always had it in them to finish strongly.
Let's not give it up yet. let's see if we can be in with a shout after the Cardiff game. If we aren't then we only have ourselves to blame for the performances at the start of the season and in December.
-
The pressure is more when it's close, not when you have a big lead. There's been more pressure on Cardiff the last few games than there will be the next few imo. That's not to say they won't implode, and I hope they do obv, but by the last 4 or 5 games they could be all but up.
I'm hoping for a repeat of 74/75. last 8 league games, won, won, won, won, won, won, won, won and automatic promotion.
-
Risso, its been about 12 hours since you mentioned Braveheart and I'm yet to get over it. Hurt me right in the history pedantic feels you did.
Sorry, that was uncalled for. Would a comparison to Churchill's "fight them on the beaches" speech have been more like it? ;)
Much more like it. Set upper lip, to stiff.
-
The pressure is more when it's close, not when you have a big lead. There's been more pressure on Cardiff the last few games than there will be the next few imo. That's not to say they won't implode, and I hope they do obv, but by the last 4 or 5 games they could be all but up.
I'm hoping for a repeat of 74/75. last 8 league games, won, won, won, won, won, won, won, won and automatic promotion.
Let's see how they get on, on Sunday. If they win that, they'll have a fantastic chance of securing second. Lose with us winning and the cushion disappears again.
I believe that our players have it in them to gain similar momentum to that of 74-75.
-
Knowing us, we'll be in spitting distance of Cardiff when we play them, and then lose that match.
-
Knowing us, we'll be in spitting distance of Cardiff when we play them, and then lose that match.
5 games to go, just like Ipswich 81 was.
-
I'd say the whole league isn't much cop, should be called the Mediocre Championship really. I know Sheffield United will need the points when they play Cardiff, so will Wolves, and if we can't get up for a home game against them then forget the play-offs as well. Of their other games they have, Derby need the points, while Hull and Burton will need them for other reasons.
of course it's the same with us, but 7 or less points between us come the 1st April and we have a decent chance providing we do our bit.
-
I'm gona take one for the team ..im going to bet on Cardiff to win every time they play , with my betting record I'm confident I can jinx them ....
They're still being price decently.
Were 2/1 to win last night so had a fiver on that. Think they're 6/4 this weekend.
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
-
AV last 4 games under Graham Taylor, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, drawn.
Finished runners up to Liverpool who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 4 games under BFR, fighting for the league title:
Won, lost, lost, lost.
Finished runners up to Man U who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 5 games under Ron Saunders, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, won, lost.
Won the league ahead of Ipswich whose final 5 results were:
Lost, lost, won, lost, lost.
Neither team had previous experience of challenging for the title.
AV last 5 games promotion under Graham Taylor:
Lost, drew, won, won, drew.
Promoted and all rivals dropped similar amounts of points.
Now I'm not saying that this happens all the time but speaking as a Villa fan who is old enough to remember all of those run ins, form and football goes out of the window in those final few games. The pressure is like nothing you have experienced for the bulk of the season. look at the Man Us, the Liverpools and the Chelseas when they won titles - They always had it in them to finish strongly.
Let's not give it up yet. let's see if we can be in with a shout after the Cardiff game. If we aren't then we only have ourselves to blame for the performances at the start of the season and in December.
Not this one. They'd not seriously challenged for the title for yonks.
Ah, those were the days!
-
AV last 4 games under Graham Taylor, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, drawn.
Finished runners up to Liverpool who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 4 games under BFR, fighting for the league title:
Won, lost, lost, lost.
Finished runners up to Man U who had experienced the run in before.
AV last 5 games under Ron Saunders, fighting for the league title:
Lost, won, drawn, won, lost.
Won the league ahead of Ipswich whose final 5 results were:
Lost, lost, won, lost, lost.
Neither team had previous experience of challenging for the title.
AV last 5 games promotion under Graham Taylor:
Lost, drew, won, won, drew.
Promoted and all rivals dropped similar amounts of points.
Now I'm not saying that this happens all the time but speaking as a Villa fan who is old enough to remember all of those run ins, form and football goes out of the window in those final few games. The pressure is like nothing you have experienced for the bulk of the season. look at the Man Us, the Liverpools and the Chelseas when they won titles - They always had it in them to finish strongly.
Let's not give it up yet. let's see if we can be in with a shout after the Cardiff game. If we aren't then we only have ourselves to blame for the performances at the start of the season and in December.
Not this one. They'd not seriously challenged for the title for yonks.
Ah, those were the days!
They were runners up to Leeds the season before. It was that experience that gave them the edge the second time around, whilst going head to head with us.
-
Well they had but they'd bottled it the previous season. Hardly won for the last few months to hand the title to Leeds.
-
Leicester hadn't experienced it before and didn't bottle it. For every bottle job there's a side that didn't bottle it.
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
I feel like the Fulham/Preston blip was more because of the injuries we picked up v Blues. Last night is the only result that has simply been downright shite this year.
For that reason, I feel our form has been as good as anyone really.
All we can do now is keep winning games and hope.....and it isn't really a 3 game turnaround, it's kind of 2 and a half (although I see what people are saying when they say that) - we need 2 wins against 2 defeats, but the third game only has to be a win against a draw, or even a draw against a defeat.
-
Oops, my mistake. I always forget about the Leeds year, in my head I've got Arsenal and Liverpool divvying up the top two for what seemed forever.
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
Well if you can't see us beating bolton and hull away then it doesn't bode well for the play-offs i'd say. Win both of them and hoping cardiff don't beat Derby away and we could be 5 points off them come the 1st April. I'd be very disappointed and would concede defeat if the points total is more than 7 by then
-
Leicester hadn't experienced it before and didn't bottle it. For every bottle job there's a side that didn't bottle it.
Well there has to be doesn't there? Otherwise nobody would ever win the league.
That wasn't the point. The point is that those with experience invariably fair better than those who are experiencing it for the first time (Leicester being the exception rather than the norm but even then, they drew 3 of their last 5) Also, I'm trying to make the point that winnable games on paper are not that straightforward come the last 4 or 5 games.
-
This feels eerily reminiscent of the O'Neill era when we were ahead of Arsenal on points, then threw 4th place away. The 2-2 Stoke draw being a similar stand out game for the wrong reasons as the 3-1 defeat last night.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
-
If we were 7 points clear in 2nd at present having won 7 in a row we'd be massively confident of going up and would be giving Cardiff and Fulham little to no chance of catching us. I know I would be. So likewise i'm not overly confident we can take 2nd, I hope we do, and it is possible, but I just think it's unlikely.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
Indeed. Brassneck's theory works relatively well until we remember that we've been shite for years so we have no experience of dealing with the pressure at the top.
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
Well if you can't see us beating bolton and hull away then it doesn't bode well for the play-offs i'd say. Win both of them and hoping cardiff don't beat Derby away and we could be 5 points off them come the 1st April. I'd be very disappointed and would concede defeat if the points total is more than 7 by then
Hull are starting to pick up now and have Abel Hernandez back so thay have a cutting edge upfront.
Can see us grinding out a 0-1 at Bolton but look at their recent results v top 6 teams, drew with Fulham a few weeks ago, beat Bristol 1-0 and also beat Cardiff before xmas. They are a tough team to beat at home.
4 points from our next two would've been fine in my book if we'd won last night.
-
If we were 7 points clear in 2nd at present having won 7 in a row we'd be massively confident of going up and would be giving Cardiff and Fulham little to no chance of catching us. I know I would be. So likewise i'm not overly confident we can take 2nd, I hope we do, and it is possible, but I just think it's unlikely.
Well yeah you'd rather have the points in the bag any day of the week but i just don't think cardiff will carry on their current form till the end of the season. If they hammer us, Wolves and Sheffield United in April then i'll hold my hands up. Otherwise that's 9 points to play for and enough to overhaul them, with another 6 games to take into account
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
Well if you can't see us beating bolton and hull away then it doesn't bode well for the play-offs i'd say. Win both of them and hoping cardiff don't beat Derby away and we could be 5 points off them come the 1st April. I'd be very disappointed and would concede defeat if the points total is more than 7 by then
Hull are starting to pick up now and have Abel Hernandez back so thay have a cutting edge upfront.
Can see us grinding out a 0-1 at Bolton but look at their recent results v top 6 teams, drew with Fulham a few weeks ago, beat Bristol 1-0 and also beat Cardiff before xmas. They are a tough team to beat at home.
4 points from our next two would've been fine in my book if we'd won last night.
well its swings and roundabouts really. I had us down for a draw with wolves so the loss against QPR wasn't such a body blow imo. If cardiff take 6 points from the next 2 games and we don't, i'd agree automatic promotion is over. Actually if they just take more points than us it's over.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
Indeed. Brassneck's theory works relatively well until we remember that we've been shite for years so we have no experience of dealing with the pressure at the top.
Brassneck's theory was that the players have experience, not the club.
Terry's record speaks for itself. Snodgrass, Grabban, Chester, Elmo, Jedinak, Whelan, Taylor and Albert have all experienced promotions from this division. Of course, we also have a manager who has experienced this scenario several times as well.
-
This feels eerily reminiscent of the O'Neill era when we were ahead of Arsenal on points, then threw 4th place away. The 2-2 Stoke draw being a similar stand out game for the wrong reasons as the 3-1 defeat last night.
Of course the winless run that followed might also have contributed.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
Yes, but as per my other post above, the majority and the team HAVE experienced promotion from this division, unlike Fulham.
Fulham of course should not be ignored, given the quality of their side and the momentum they are in.
Currently, Villa are 3rd in the betting behind both Cardiff and Fulham for automatic. That's about right but it doesn't mean we give in.
-
Leicester hadn't experienced it before and didn't bottle it. For every bottle job there's a side that didn't bottle it.
That's because Spurs did...hahahaha. ahem. Excuse me.
-
No Spurs didn’t lose the League title by bottling they lost 2nd to Arsenal. They way Leicester finished was their own doing not Spurs failure.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
Yes, but as per my other post above, the majority and the team HAVE experienced promotion from this division, unlike Fulham.
Fulham of course should not be ignored, given the quality of their side and the momentum they are in.
Currently, Villa are 3rd in the betting behind both Cardiff and Fulham for automatic. That's about right but it doesn't mean we give in.
When it came to Man Utd the experience of missing out was a big factor in them going on to win in 1993, surely the same applies to Fulham?
-
They only just squeaked into the Play Offs didn't they?
-
This is all very stressful. I'm quite tempted to go into a coma until the evening of 26th May and wake up to find out what league we are in next year.
-
This feels eerily reminiscent of the O'Neill era when we were ahead of Arsenal on points, then threw 4th place away. The 2-2 Stoke draw being a similar stand out game for the wrong reasons as the 3-1 defeat last night.
But we've never been ahead of Cardiff save for one game. We had a strong lead over Arsenal and messed it up. Cardiff have been second or third most of the season so they'll more than deserve it.
Derby have been the biggest bottlers so far. Their last two months form has been abysmal.
-
I agree with the last sentence but by your reckoning Fulham will most likely finish second as they experienced it recently while us and Cardiff haven't.
Yes, but as per my other post above, the majority and the team HAVE experienced promotion from this division, unlike Fulham.
Fulham of course should not be ignored, given the quality of their side and the momentum they are in.
Currently, Villa are 3rd in the betting behind both Cardiff and Fulham for automatic. That's about right but it doesn't mean we give in.
When it came to Man Utd the experience of missing out was a big factor in them going on to win in 1993, surely the same applies to Fulham?
We are one point ahead of them and only need to match them in the remaining 9 games. We all accept that there is little room for error and Cardiff's incredible winning streak has raised the bar. It should also be remembered that Fulham finished the season very strongly and were never seriously challenging the top 2. It's hardly experience in challenging for auto is it?
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
-
Don't think we'll win both upcoming away games.
I can see us reducing the 7 point gap certainly get it down to 4 again or even 1 if we then beat Cardiff at VP.
The trouble is if we somehow get second we need to then keep on winning (unless it's last minute at Millwall of course!)
We saw the problem with that after SHA. Got into second then we stopped winning for the next 2 games and fell 4 points behind again.
Well if you can't see us beating bolton and hull away then it doesn't bode well for the play-offs i'd say. Win both of them and hoping cardiff don't beat Derby away and we could be 5 points off them come the 1st April. I'd be very disappointed and would concede defeat if the points total is more than 7 by then
Hull are starting to pick up now and have Abel Hernandez back so thay have a cutting edge upfront.
Can see us grinding out a 0-1 at Bolton but look at their recent results v top 6 teams, drew with Fulham a few weeks ago, beat Bristol 1-0 and also beat Cardiff before xmas. They are a tough team to beat at home.
4 points from our next two would've been fine in my book if we'd won last night.
well its swings and roundabouts really. I had us down for a draw with wolves so the loss against QPR wasn't such a body blow imo. If cardiff take 6 points from the next 2 games and we don't, i'd agree automatic promotion is over. Actually if they just take more points than us it's over.
The last 2 games have show nicely that we are bizarrely capable of thrashing the best teams in this division and being dominated by rubbish teams. Good luck to all of you estimating points totals with that in mind.
For me it’s as simple as we’re probably in the playoffs now and how we do depends on which villa turns up for those games.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
-
We beat Fulham fairly comfortably at Villa Park earlier in the season.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
exasperated , ok all hail the mighty Fulham, we are not worthy.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
exasperated , ok all hail the mighty Fulham, we are not worthy.
Why are you adding value to such an innocuous statement? Nobody has said "all hail the mighty Fulham"
If we were in an FA Cup semi final draw with Man City, Everton and Hull City to chose from, I would prefer to draw Hull. Likewise, I would prefer to draw the weakest of the 3 teams in the play offs.
That does not mean I "hail" anyone else, it just means I want to give us the best chance of reaching the final.
If you want to go all gung ho and take on all comers then good luck to you. I find that silliness exasperating.
-
We beat Fulham fairly comfortably at Villa Park earlier in the season.
Im not so sure, Johnstone made a worldy to keep it 2-1 in the Second half and they got behind us a few times.
-
We beat Fulham fairly comfortably at Villa Park earlier in the season.
What season we talking about here? With maybe one or two exceptions, it could be any time they've visited Villa Park.
They were worse than Rotherham in Bruce's first season.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
exasperated , ok all hail the mighty Fulham, we are not worthy.
Why are you adding value to such an innocuous statement? Nobody has said "all hail the mighty Fulham"
If we were in an FA Cup semi final draw with Man City, Everton and Hull City to chose from, I would prefer to draw Hull. Likewise, I would prefer to draw the weakest of the 3 teams in the play offs.
That does not mean I "hail" anyone else, it just means I want to give us the best chance of reaching the final.
If you want to go all gung ho and take on all comers then good luck to you. I find that silliness exasperating.
Brassneck I appreciate , this means a lot to you, that's why you feel you have to exert your im not saying stance, me myself as a Villa fan think to win the play offs we will have to beat 2 of 3 teams, now the chances are Fulham may well be one of them teams, and we will have to beat them to get up. to state "avoid Fulham" (to me any way implies some trepidation of the contest)
Now when we played Arsenal in the cup final, I thought we had a chance (hindsight and all that) we were embarrassed somehow I don't see Fulham 2018 as Arsenal 2015.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
Maybe gamble that Boro would knock them out before a final like Reading did last season.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
exasperated , ok all hail the mighty Fulham, we are not worthy.
Why are you adding value to such an innocuous statement? Nobody has said "all hail the mighty Fulham"
If we were in an FA Cup semi final draw with Man City, Everton and Hull City to chose from, I would prefer to draw Hull. Likewise, I would prefer to draw the weakest of the 3 teams in the play offs.
That does not mean I "hail" anyone else, it just means I want to give us the best chance of reaching the final.
If you want to go all gung ho and take on all comers then good luck to you. I find that silliness exasperating.
Brassneck I appreciate , this means a lot to you, that's why you feel you have to exert your im not saying stance, me myself as a Villa fan think to win the play offs we will have to beat 2 of 3 teams, now the chances are Fulham may well be one of them teams, and we will have to beat them to get up. to state "avoid Fulham" (to me any way implies some trepidation of the contest)
Now when we played Arsenal in the cup final, I thought we had a chance (hindsight and all that) we were embarrassed somehow I don't see Fulham 2018 as Arsenal 2015.
Mate - I have just spent the past 24 hours arguing that we can make autos. Surely you comprehend that this would mean that I am not in awe of Fulham? I'm not even thinking of the play offs at this stage.
I too thought we "could" beat Arsenal. However, I would have been more confident if we were playing Accrington Stanley.
Now please go and annoy someone else.
-
I think Brassneck is right. I too would rather avoid Fulham in the Semi as they may not then make the final, just like last season despite them being the form team going into the play offs.
In the other 2015 FA Cup Semi final, Arsenal only scraped past Reading. If Reading had won that then we'd have won the FA Cup.
-
I'd take finishing third and playing whomever finishes sixth, which won't be Fulham.
You realise there's then a final to play though?
And also that finishing 4th would avoid Fulham as well.
Personally, if we don't get auto, I'd prefer to finish 4th so that I won't beat myself up as much over dropping the points we did at the start of the season and in December.
So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox, yes they beat us (a resounding victory I grant you) But fresh (the team that beat wolves) not jaded (the team QPR spanked) We can do any one in this league, come on "if were in the play offs" as opposed to the automatics bring on Fulham, Middlesboro and whoever else they can fit on the pitch. UTV.
I'm not scared of Fulham. However, I would prefer to avoid them if given the choice. Why would you possibly want to play the best of the 3 teams, especially when it involves an away leg at a ground we traditionally under perform on?
exasperated , ok all hail the mighty Fulham, we are not worthy.
Why are you adding value to such an innocuous statement? Nobody has said "all hail the mighty Fulham"
If we were in an FA Cup semi final draw with Man City, Everton and Hull City to chose from, I would prefer to draw Hull. Likewise, I would prefer to draw the weakest of the 3 teams in the play offs.
That does not mean I "hail" anyone else, it just means I want to give us the best chance of reaching the final.
If you want to go all gung ho and take on all comers then good luck to you. I find that silliness exasperating.
Brassneck I appreciate , this means a lot to you, that's why you feel you have to exert your im not saying stance, me myself as a Villa fan think to win the play offs we will have to beat 2 of 3 teams, now the chances are Fulham may well be one of them teams, and we will have to beat them to get up. to state "avoid Fulham" (to me any way implies some trepidation of the contest)
Now when we played Arsenal in the cup final, I thought we had a chance (hindsight and all that) we were embarrassed somehow I don't see Fulham 2018 as Arsenal 2015.
Mate - I have just spent the past 24 hours arguing that we can make autos. Surely you comprehend that this would mean that I am not in awe of Fulham? I'm not even thinking of the play offs at this stage.
I too thought we "could" beat Arsenal. However, I would have been more confident if we were playing Accrington Stanley.
Now please go and annoy someone else.
I'm sorry you see it as annoying, but I just have a different evaluation of Fulham than you. btw we couldn't of played Accrington in the 2015 final because they didn't make the semi's lol. enjoy your day.
-
Would you not find it annoying if someone who can't read hijacks your posts?
I stated that finishing 4th meant that we wouldn't play Fulham. I did not say I was scared or wanted to avoid Fulham, I simply stated that finishing 4th meant we would not play Fulham in the semi-final.
You replied:
"So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox,"
Even my 6 year old grandson would understand that stating that I didn't say I was scared of Fulham, nor was what I did say a load of "bolox".
-
Fulham have the sort of team that would cause us issues, we all saw that at the Cottage after all. Side with pace (Sessegnon) who can keep the ball and move it around our midfield players.
I'd prefer to avoid that over two legs tbh.
With Boro you know what you'd get, long throws and many crosses. I know which game Jedinak would be more comfortable in.
Obviously a play off final you just have to get on with it. Just hope we'd turn up at Wembley for once and actually have some shots on target!
Isn't it 4 shots on target from our last three cup final appearences there? We didn't even get a corner v Arsenal.
-
We're shit on corners so that's no worry.
-
Would you not find it annoying if someone who can't read hijacks your posts?
I stated that finishing 4th meant that we wouldn't play Fulham. I did not say I was scared or wanted to avoid Fulham, I simply stated that finishing 4th meant we would not play Fulham in the semi-final.
You replied:
"So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox,"
Even my 6 year old grandson would understand that stating that I didn't say I was scared of Fulham, nor was what I did say a load of "bolox".
Last word is yours, I must of misread the "avoid Fulham" silly me. I have learned a lot I hope we can get automatic cuz we aint got a chance in the play offs.
-
Would you not find it annoying if someone who can't read hijacks your posts?
I stated that finishing 4th meant that we wouldn't play Fulham. I did not say I was scared or wanted to avoid Fulham, I simply stated that finishing 4th meant we would not play Fulham in the semi-final.
You replied:
"So now we are scared of fuckin Fulham, what a load of bolox,"
Even my 6 year old grandson would understand that stating that I didn't say I was scared of Fulham, nor was what I did say a load of "bolox".
Last word is yours, I must of misread the "avoid Fulham" silly me. I have learned a lot I hope we can get automatic cuz we aint got a chance in the play offs.
I am pretty sure you two can keep this going a little longer, I am enjoying it. :D
Do you think we would be better facing them over one game or two legs?
-
We're going to be screwed in the top flight if we can't even compete with Fulham in Division Two.
-
We're going to be screwed in the top flight if we can't even compete with Fulham in Division Two.
We can't even compete with QPR in division 2, let alone Fulham. I'd hazard a guess though that funds may be made available to strengthen the team if we go up.
-
With some of the players Fulham have they're probably on a level better than bottom six of the prem, same for Wolves.
If that is the top 2 come May I think both would stay up.
Newcastle, Huddersfield and Brighton all look like staying up and when I see the 11s they put out it's mostly what they were putting out in the championship last season.
In this obssession with spending 100m every summer we sometimes forget teams can pick up many points with good team spirit and every player going on the pitch and knowing his job.
We lost those things in our last few years in the premier league.
-
I agree and of course I realize that we would still have a final to play if we avoided Fulham in the semis !!! Blimey...
-
Have tried not to think about the play off route and truly hope we don't need it, but I like the date of 26th May at least. You could also join me to see the Rolling Stones the night before, a stones throw from my home, 25th in the Olympic Stafium.
Presumably semis must be approx 13th & 16th?
-
I don't get this "avoid Fulham" clamour. This week we played the best team in the division and one of the worst and look at the scores. It's all about how we play on the day.
-
This is all very stressful. I'm quite tempted to go into a coma until the evening of 26th May and wake up to find out what league we are in next year.
How does that help the rest of us? You are completely selfish.
-
This is all very stressful. I'm quite tempted to go into a coma until the evening of 26th May and wake up to find out what league we are in next year.
How does that help the rest of us? You are completely selfish.
It'd mean you don't have to put up with me for over two months.
-
We're shit on corners so that's no worry.
We didn't score from 14 on Tuesday but scored from the first against Wolves. Professor Hawking would have had a solution for that.
-
I don't get this "avoid Fulham" clamour. This week we played the best team in history of world football who will be playing Champions League football in a 60,000 seater stadium within 2 years and one of the worst and look at the scores. It's all about how we play on the day.
Ftfy
-
This is all very stressful. I'm quite tempted to go into a coma until the evening of 26th May and wake up to find out what league we are in next year.
How does that help the rest of us? You are completely selfish.
It'd mean you don't have to put up with me for over two months.
No we are are a team of Suffragettes and you have to stay awake with us.
-
I don't get this "avoid Fulham" clamour. This week we played the best team in history of world football who will be playing Champions League football in a 60,000 seater stadium within 2 years and one of the worst and look at the scores. It's all about how we play on the day.
Ftfy
Thanks. I just don't possess enough vocabulary to praise their greatness.
-
Wolves fan at work was telling me this week that our game against them on Saturday had been our Cup Final. I told her that the day that a game against Wolves would be a Cup Final for Villa would be the day hell freezes over.
-
I'd say the occasion was too big for Wolves if anything. They went to the biggest club in the division against the biggest crowd and in a derby and it overwhelmed them.
-
Warnock quoted in press conference suggests they weren't expecting as much this season.
And that he's expecting Cardiff to have losses between now and end of season.
"We just don't get carried away, there's going to be losses between now and the end of the season, we've just got to pick ourselves up and get on with the next one and make a fight of it really.
"We didn't think we'd be anywhere near where we are, so I don't see why we don't enjoy it. I think when you start expectations you're likely to disappoint so we don't have any we get on with it really.
"They're a genuine bunch of lads, I've not heard any talk about automatic promotion or anything. I think we just know we are lucky to be where we are as a group - we've earned that right and we are going to continue as much as we can."
-
Just trying to take the pressure off his players. He knows the score.
-
Yes
There will come a point where they’re expected to go up and then we’ll see how they handle it
But he’s done a phenomenal job so far
-
Thank you QPR.
-
The fat lass is heading to the stage.
-
Wolves and Cardiff got promoted today, play offs here we come.
-
Close this thread and let’s hope we don’t slip out of play off places.
-
Just got to hope Derby do us a favour tomorrow. Otherwise game over.
-
Just got to hope Derby do us a favour tomorrow. Otherwise game over.
I'll have some of what you're on!!
-
Just got to hope Derby do us a favour tomorrow. Otherwise game over.
I'll have some of what you're on!!
Well its the hope that kills you......A derby win and its 'as you were' at the top tho'.
-
Just got to hope Derby do us a favour tomorrow. Otherwise game over.
Nah. It's over now. No pressure on Cardiff whatsoever. Handed it on a plate to them today. Last 2 matches have put huge dent in promotion prospects.
Going into the international break on two defeats and knowing we've 8 games to stay in playoffs. Bruce fluffed it for me.
-
In the space of a week I am at a place where I have lost faith in our ability to succeed in the playoffs.
-
Yep we have a soft centre at set pieces and team like Boro would expose that.
-
Just got to hope Derby do us a favour tomorrow. Otherwise game over.
I'll have some of what you're on!!
Well its the hope that kills you......A derby win and its 'as you were' at the top tho'.
No it's really not, because it's 7 points to make up from 24 rather than 27, every game that passes without a change is a huge boost for Cardiff. As I said, it's done, there's no way us and Fulham are going to win every game form here and that's the only way we'd get close.
-
Still comes down to cardiff playing us, wolves and sheffield United in April. If we're 7 points or less away then it is recoverable. Obviously if cardiff get to 8 points i think its over.
-
Yeah automatic is gone now. All about momentum for the play offs. We cant miss out on them surely....
-
We're going to 'typical Villa' it in the play offs and Adama Traore will tear us a new arsehole.
-
If we keep losing to dross like QPR and Bolton then it really doesn't matter what Cardiff do.
-
We won't win all our remaining games anyway (Millwall on the last day will be similar to this game) if they still have a chance of top 6 so Cardiff can afford to drop more points than they probably imagined this time last week.
-
Cardiff will win tomorrow anyway, Derby couldn't beat an egg.
-
Neither could QPR way from home and they've just taken 4 points at us and Fulham.
-
Cardiff are now in the stage where they don't need to win.
Draw tomorrow then beat Burton after the break and that's an 11 point gap before we play Hull.
-
Playoff maths
-
right now we're probably playing for 6th
-
If one thing the plays offs do occur I think villa will be well up for it and would thrive on these matches against teams of similar quality.
Steve Mcclaren on sky after match was more less saying villa lost their nerve by losing these matches today and Tuesday after winning last Saturday.
He says it's the team that holds their nerve that go up.
-
God, could you imagine McClaren going up instead of us? If i was Bruce i wouldn't resign, i'd retire.
-
God, could you imagine McClaren going up instead of us? If i was Bruce i wouldn't resign, i'd retire.
Especially as McClaren isn't even managing in the Championship at the moment!
-
hah, good point. I was sure he was somewhere in the championship :o
-
It's bad enough we've missed out to a workmanlike Cardiff team managed by that prick Warnock who has spent a fraction of what we have the past two seasons. Missing out to McClaren if he was still managing would be a criminal offence.
-
I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying about we'd hypothetically feel about missing out to a team managed by a former football manager. It's bad enough as it is. Just think if a team managed by Dave Bassett or Gary Megson finished above us.
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
In fairness, he's working tirelessly to rectify that position.
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
In fairness, he's working tirelessly to rectify that position.
Paul Lambert was admin?
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
In fairness, he's working tirelessly to rectify that position.
Paul Lambert was admin?
Some of his management was taking the biscuit, for sure.
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
In fairness, he's working tirelessly to rectify that position.
Paul Lambert was admin?
Some of his management was taking the biscuit, for sure.
We've been done by the beast of the Eastie.
-
We're currently below a side managed by Paul Lambert. Lowest point in the club's history.
In fairness, he's working tirelessly to rectify that position.
Paul Lambert was admin?
Some of his management was taking the biscuit, for sure.
Biscuits for brains and a 'flexible' approach to telling the truth. Lamberk and the three-headed Admin.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
Not good on options, but at the moment I'd prefer Fulham over take them (if we can't)
-
Naw.
If we can soil ourselves so spectacularly, a side with even less quality than us should also fear the wrath of Father Follow-through.
-
yeah it has crossed my mind. Not sure if getting back to basics like clean-sheets, re-grouping and building some momentum for the play-offs is a better idea. Trouble is all our players are buggering off now for the internationals. knowing our luck they'll all come back knackered or injured.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
Not good on options, but at the moment I'd prefer Fulham over take them (if we can't)
Me too. Cardiff don't have the squad we do. Fulham have the manager we don't.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
No, I can't say I do.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
No, I can't say I do.
I can't say I do and I can't say I don't. What can I say?
Best to keep schtum, I guess.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
Only if you're a miserable sod. If Cardiff lose its as you were really just with a game less so we'd still be in with an outside shout. It's too early to just concede so ofcourse we should hope they lose.
-
Anyone else half hope Cardiff win tomorrow? It puts the very slim chance of 2nd to bed, means we can concentrate on the play offs and keeps Derby 7 points behind us.
Most definitely no.
-
The reality is that after a poor start to the season and a dismal December, the playoffs was always going to be our most likely objective, sadly. We've been playing catch-up all season and we nearly made inroads into 2nd place aided by the likes of Sheffield Utd, Bristol city, Derby and Cardiff not wanting to cement it for themselves. But Cardiff have kicked on again following the transfer window and we are playing catch-up again. Having caught up after our 7 game winning run, we needed to kick on again following the loss to Fulham to go on another 7 game winning run to really challenge for the top 2. Ifs, buts and maybes won't get us there, only wins, especially after poor spells throughout the season. Fulham, who also had a poor start to the season are still at least 3 games away from second, with time running out, despite not losing in about 15 games. We could only afford to lose to the likes of Bolton if we had already got points in the bank. Unfortunately we've never been in this situation all season. We need to establish some kind of form again, if only to ready ourselves for the playoffs.
-
Well summed up Abbey. We have been playing catch up all season. Our indifferent start to the season has been our undoing.
-
Derby v Cardiff has been called off.
-
Derby v Cardiff has been called off.
Doubtless completely unrelated to the fact that Derby only have 10 fit players!
-
Derby v Cardiff has been called off.
Doubtless completely unrelated to the fact that Derby only have 10 fit players!
I remember being happy the QPR game was called off for similar reasons ..didn't help us in the end as ended up playing 3 games in a a week and we only won one of them ...the benefit if any from this is both teams now will have a very congested end of the season
-
Derby v Cardiff has been called off.
Doubtless completely unrelated to the fact that Derby only have 10 fit players!
I remember being happy the QPR game was called off for similar reasons ..didn't help us in the end as ended up playing 3 games in a a week and we only won one of them ...the benefit if any from this is both teams now will have a very congested end of the season
I just hope that Derby are still fighting for top 6 by the time the game is played - If they are already guaranteed top 6, they may well rest players and/or go through the motions. Cardiff can still be caught. It's looking increasingly unlikely admittedly but we have to aim at 21/22 points from our last 8. If we do that, we must then hope that Cardiff drop points somewhere along the line.
-
Well summed up Abbey. We have been playing catch up all season. Our indifferent start to the season has been our undoing.
Which we were being told it did not matter as there were plenty of games left, lots of football to be played.
So it looks like it did matter.
-
Well summed up Abbey. We have been playing catch up all season. Our indifferent start to the season has been our undoing.
Which we were being told it did not matter as there were plenty of games left, lots of football to be played.
So it looks like it did matter.
Spot on.
-
I was convinced last weekend we'd be on for a new record points total this season (78 being the current record) but these last couple of results have given me cause for concern. Hope it doesn't turn into one of those runs we've had before under Bruce.
-
Well summed up Abbey. We have been playing catch up all season. Our indifferent start to the season has been our undoing.
Which we were being told it did not matter as there were plenty of games left, lots of football to be played.
So it looks like it did matter.
I was thinking that.
-
Having just heard warnock be annoyed with the Cardiff match being called off its a real help to villa promotion hopes I feel.
Fact was Cardiff could have been 8 or 10 clear but now they have to re schedule a midweek match for this tough away trip to Derby.
Thanks rowett and Derby played a blinder on this one.
Warnock knows it's a real pain and by his comments seems to think it was a stitch up.
-
well you have to say if it was other way round, we wouldn't be happy. Wonder how many derby fans are on Derbyshire police ;D
-
well you have to say if it was other way round, we wouldn't be happy. Wonder how many derby fans are on Derbyshire police ;D
Derbyshire police have distanced themselves from the decision - They are claiming the game was called off at Derby's behest.
There is something very dodgy about this but personally, I'm delighted. It helps us (and Fulham) as not only was the gap kept down but also, Cardiff will now have to play 8 games in 30 days. They will drop points - It's just whether we can win 7 out of 8.
-
It’s the hope that kills.
-
It’s the hope that kills.
Sooner have hope than be where we were last season.
-
It may have been the clubs decision, but Derbyshire police were reporting on twitter earlier in the day that they had been called to a lot of RTCs and asking people not to make unecessary journeys.
Theres nothing suspect about it. Pride Park may have been OK but most of Derbyshire wasn't, and it was probabky wise to turn the Cardiff fans back as quickly as possible as conditions right across the country worsened as the day went on.
Oh well!
-
Colin Wanker was on the wireless earlier, and fair play to him he said if he was in Rowett's position (with injuries), he'd have pulled the same stroke. Say what you like about him - and many do - but at least he's honest.
-
Colin Wanker was on the wireless earlier, and fair play to him he said if he was in Rowett's position (with injuries), he'd have pulled the same stroke. Say what you like about him - and many do - but at least he's honest.
He was moaning like fuck at the weekend.
-
Colin Wanker was on the wireless earlier, and fair play to him he said if he was in Rowett's position (with injuries), he'd have pulled the same stroke. Say what you like about him - and many do - but at least he's honest.
As in the honest way four of his players went down injured that time he got the game abandoned.
-
Colin Wanker was on the wireless earlier, and fair play to him he said if he was in Rowett's position (with injuries), he'd have pulled the same stroke. Say what you like about him - and many do - but at least he's honest.
As in the honest way four of his players went down injured that time he got the game abandoned.
Quite. Detestable scrote.
-
Don't mind him, his recent books were excellent reads.
He plays the pantomine villian role well.
-
Don't mind him, his recent books were excellent reads.
He plays the pantomine villian role well.
I'm actually of a similar opinion.
You play to your strengths and if you don't have the money and/or attraction at your disposal that clubs like Villa or Wolves have then you have to make up for it in other ways. That is what Warnock has done although I think he's been helped immensely by the form of Junior Hoilett this season.
-
Pace covers a multitude of sins. We've missed Green coming off the bench.
-
Pace creates fear and generates errors in tiring defenders. It was the very basis of the career of one Agbonlahor, G. Once he lost that and became pregnant with a truck wheel he lost all of his value.
-
And even Green is not that quick.
-
Green is quick. Twice in two days I've read the bizarre statement that he has no pace.
-
Green is quick. Twice in two days I've read the bizarre statement that he has no pace.
He is quick, but not Vassell Gaby Daley quick.
-
He's not blindingly quick over 30-40 yards but he has a good burst of pace to get away from defenders, which is probably at least as valuable for a winger, it's not often you see him beat a man and then get caught by them before he can cross/pass/shoot.
-
I think 80 points should be enough to secure at least 4th and avoid Fulham or Cardiff in the playoff semi-finals.
On current form I would have Boro 5th and Millwall 6th which would see us against Boro with second leg at Villa Park.
We do need to get firing again though. When I get the time I was going to check out the form of the playoff winners in the last few seasons, see if form really does matter.
-
Bit gutting to be reminded that Cardiff have Burton to ease them back into the home straight.
-
Green is quick. Twice in two days I've read the bizarre statement that he has no pace.
He is quick, but not Vassell Gaby Daley quick.
I wish he worked in the Holte Suite bar
-
The return of Kodjia will hopefully ensure we make the play off final at least
-
Who's have thought we'd be 10 points of second after beating wolves
-
Cardiff 8 wins in a row. Fulham 17 unbeaten. Looks like second place is going to be a big total this season.
-
In fairness those stats for Cardiff and Fulham are simply incredible for teams that are not even top of the table and running away with it. Just shows how tough this season has been that our form which overall in the past 3 months has been really good and outstanding before the last two games still leaves us 10 points back of second.
-
Who's have thought we'd be 10 points of second after beating wolves
No one
-
Fulham W14 D3 L0, Cardiff W10 D2 L0. Barring a miracle it's the play-offs now.
-
Fulham will finish above us now I think.
Still third or fourth isn't a huge difference in the play off context.
-
We need to get some form together for the play offs.
-
In fairness those stats for Cardiff and Fulham are simply incredible for teams that are not even top of the table and running away with it. Just shows how tough this season has been that our form which overall in the past 3 months has been really good and outstanding before the last two games still leaves us 10 points back of second.
It's all down to sticking with Bruce at the end of last season I am afraid. Poor start and far too many hiccups all the way through the season.
-
We've had 3 dodgy spells, start of the season, December and the last 7 games. That's covered half our season so far with a record of W4 D8 L7 in those 19 games, closer to bottom 6 form. Our form in the other 19 is W16 D1 L2.
-
Fulham will finish above us now I think.
Still third or fourth isn't a huge difference in the play off context.
I’m hoping Fulham catch Cardiff. For some reason and I have no real rationale for this, but I feel we have a better shot over two legs or in a one off final if it came down to Cardiff.
-
Fulham will finish above us now I think.
Still third or fourth isn't a huge difference in the play off context.
I’m hoping Fulham catch Cardiff. For some reason and I have no real rationale for this, but I feel we have a better shot over two legs or in a one off final if it came down to Cardiff.
Absolutely.
-
Still don't think much has changed. Still going to be 7 points difference from cardiff if we beat hull going into April. Beat cardiff at home then thats 4 points, then you have to hope they drop points away at sheff U, Derby and home to Wolves. Advantage could be gone in 2 or 3 games., and cardiff still have to play 4 other teams. That all depends if we do our bit of course......
-
Ive looked at the last 10 years of the Championship playoffs.
2017, Huddersfield (5th) beat Sheff Weds on penalties after stumbling to 10 points from the last 8 games.
2016, Hull (4th) under a Mr S.Bruce beat Sheff Weds 1-0 after 14 points from the last 8 games.
2015, Norwich (3rd) beat Boro 2-0 after 19 points from the last 8.
2014, QPR (4th) beat Derby (3rd) after 11 from the last 8.
2013, Palace (5th) beat Watford (3rd) 1-0 after a paltry 7 points from the last 8.
2012, West Ham (3rd) beat Blackpool (5th) 2-1 after 17 from the last 8.
2011, Swansea (3rd) beat Reading 4-2 after 14 from the last 8.
2010 , Blackpool (6th) beat Cardiff (4th) after 19 from the last 8.
2009 , Burnley (5th) beat Sheff Utd (3rd) after 15 from the last 8.
2008, Hull (3rd) beat Bristol City 1-0 after 16 from the last 8.
Summary :
- Finishing 3rd gives you a better than average chance of winning (4 of 10 years).
- Form helps ; only 3 of 10 got promoted with less than 14 points from the last 8 (W4,D2, L2).
If we can get to the final I do think we have the players to take advantadge and deal with the pressure of such a massive occasion. I could also see john Terry deciding to call it a day with a 20th trophy won at Wembley.
-
Still don't think much has changed. Still going to be 7 points difference from cardiff if we beat hull going into April. Beat cardiff at home then thats 4 points, then you have to hope they drop points away at sheff U, Derby and home to Wolves. Advantage could be gone in 2 or 3 games., and cardiff still have to play 4 other teams. That all depends if we do our bit of course......
That’s the problem, we needed something to change, like the others losing and us winning to close the gap.
-
Wolves have had two players sent off the absolute ******. I presume this means they’re banned for the Cardiff game?
-
Both 2nd yellows, they’ll be back for Cardiff
The Wolves mgr seems a bigger cock than Pulis, that’s a serious achievement
-
Still don't think much has changed. Still going to be 7 points difference from cardiff if we beat hull going into April. Beat cardiff at home then thats 4 points, then you have to hope they drop points away at sheff U, Derby and home to Wolves. Advantage could be gone in 2 or 3 games., and cardiff still have to play 4 other teams. That all depends if we do our bit of course......
That’s the problem, we needed something to change, like the others losing and us winning to close the gap.
Wouldn't be the first time things have changed around. Only December Cardiff were losing 3 on the bounce. As i keep saying, if they get through all the hard games they have in April unscathed then you have to say well done to them but you'd hope playing 4 of the top six would result in them dropping some points at least.
-
We'll drop point aswell though.
Think we'll struggle to win at Norwich and Millwall for a start.
-
Think 2nd is beyond us now,need to find form ready for the play offs.
-
Millwall last game of the season - followed by Millwall in play off final at Wembley ......... I might just be washing my hair on those days :)
-
that's not going to happen.
-
that's not going to happen.
Oh come on VCTM can wash his hair if he wants to.
-
not if he's bald
-
Still got plenty of hair on my head - it's just all grey
That's what supporting Villa for 55 years does to you - plus sex,drugs, drink and work !!!!!!!
-
Still got plenty of hair on my head - it's just all grey
That's what supporting Villa for 55 years does to you - plus sex,drugs, drink and work !!!!!!!
Where do you work? I fancy a bit of that!
-
Still got plenty of hair on my head - it's just all grey
That's what supporting Villa for 55 years does to you - plus sex,drugs, drink and work !!!!!!!
Where do you work? I fancy a bit of that!
I'm a Catholic priest :)
-
We win today - 7 points behind
Cardiff draw at Sheff Utd, we beat Reading - 5 behind
Cardiff lose to Wolves, we draw at Norwich - 4 behind
Next up would be Cardiff at home; beat them and suddenly we're 1 point behind
Or we'll probably lose 3-0 today.
-
Like your thinking QV but would they still have a game in hand on us ?
-
Like your thinking QV but would they still have a game in hand on us ?
Yeah Derby away. Shocking form but will need to win to get a play off place.
This is Villa though, we'll probably go on a terrible run and end up clinging on to a play off place!
-
We win today - 7 points behind
Cardiff draw at Sheff Utd, we beat Reading - 5 behind
Cardiff lose to Wolves, we draw at Norwich - 4 behind
Next up would be Cardiff at home; beat them and suddenly we're 1 point behind
Or we'll probably lose 3-0 today
I have bouts of thinking it’s still possible too. Normally dashed quite quickly.
-
Still don't think much has changed. Still going to be 7 points difference from cardiff if we beat hull going into April. Beat cardiff at home then thats 4 points, then you have to hope they drop points away at sheff U, Derby and home to Wolves. Advantage could be gone in 2 or 3 games., and cardiff still have to play 4 other teams. That all depends if we do our bit of course......
That’s the problem, we needed something to change, like the others losing and us winning to close the gap.
Wouldn't be the first time things have changed around. Only December Cardiff were losing 3 on the bounce. As i keep saying, if they get through all the hard games they have in April unscathed then you have to say well done to them but you'd hope playing 4 of the top six would result in them dropping some points at least.
Yep, but it really would have helped if at least one of the other two had lost.
-
Wolves 20 points deduction for being in league with the devil.
Fulham go up as second, we lose to the dog heads in the play offs.
-
Regardless of the points position, we’re just not playing anywhere near well enough to get top two
Bruce’s management in this bad spell has been very poor. As soon as we brought Kodjia on and left jack and Lansbury as the midfield I just thought “there goes any quality possession”
And he keeps on fucking doing it
We need to focus on getting back in form ahead of the play offs. Fulham, Cardiff or probably boro would definitely beat us at the moment
-
Still don't think much has changed. Still going to be 7 points difference from cardiff if we beat hull going into April. Beat cardiff at home then thats 4 points, then you have to hope they drop points away at sheff U, Derby and home to Wolves. Advantage could be gone in 2 or 3 games., and cardiff still have to play 4 other teams. That all depends if we do our bit of course......
That’s the problem, we needed something to change, like the others losing and us winning to close the gap.
Wouldn't be the first time things have changed around. Only December Cardiff were losing 3 on the bounce. As i keep saying, if they get through all the hard games they have in April unscathed then you have to say well done to them but you'd hope playing 4 of the top six would result in them dropping some points at least.
Yep, but it really would have helped if at least one of the other two had lost.
All over now anyway. Stupid of me to even think we could beat 3 teams in a row
-
Final nail in the coffin for automatic promotion.
Now impossible to average 2 points a game means we've blown it. I think we will grind out a few more points and finish fourth.
-
Pure desperation. Second half sums up Steve Bruce. Criminal performance with a full strength squad
-
I'd personally rest a few of our key players now.
We won't be winning the play offs with this level of performance, that's for sure.
-
No chance in the play offs. We look slow, sluggish, lacking ideas and predictable. No plan B. HOOF.
-
We have every chance in the play offs - a ball of which has yet to be kicked.
-
We have every chance in the play offs - a ball of which has yet to be kicked.
Not playing like we have for the last four games we ain't.
-
We have every chance in the play offs - a ball of which has yet to be kicked.
Not playing like we have for the last four games we ain't.
I dunno, play like the Wolves game and i'd fancy us!
-
We have every chance in the play offs - a ball of which has yet to be kicked.
Not playing like we have for the last four games we ain't.
I dunno, play like the Wolves game and i'd fancy us!
Three ;D
-
We haven’t made the playoffs yet!!! Gulp
-
We haven’t made the playoffs yet!!! Gulp
One more win will do it.
Given Derby are still sixth despite not winning for two months I doubt you'll need more than 75 points.
-
Even after today's games we're as low as 2-1 for promotion and you can get 40-1 on Millwall.
-
A month ago I was salivating over the prospect of a glorious triple whammy - Villa up, those two down. After today’s results it’s looking like 4 local derbies next season. Booooo. Bruce is no more the future than chocolate fire guards.
-
The playoffs are absolutely guaranteed. Brizzle look like they don't even want to go up and after Millwall's result today I just can't see them making up 8 points on us with 6 to play.
-
Results gone for us today with the teams trying to get in play offs, find myself wanting Cardiff to beat Sheff U tonight now....grrrrr
-
Win tomorrow and it’s an 11 point cushion with 6 to go
Though I don’t think we will. Think the atmosphere will be like a reserve game and we’ll struggle to get going
-
Yes I will be full of joy knowing Brucey has secured a play off place.
-
disappointing admittedly but I'd rather that than not be in them
-
Play off''s it is. We are only 270 minutes away from the premiership. We're Aston Villa so what could possibly go wrong.
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with - plus the upheaval of players leaving - asking the younger players to step up is risking it as they have not had much experience or game time this season - it's gonna be interesting to see how Bruce plays things from here on in - secure play off spot and then rest players for 3 cup finals?
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
sorry I meant Tunstall - or one of the other five towns
-
Yes I will be full of joy knowing Brucey has secured a play off place.
One heck of an achievement.
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
sorry I meant Tunstall - or one of the other five towns
I accept it's confusing but I think "Stoke" is the town you're looking for.
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
sorry I meant Tunstall - or one of the other five towns
I accept it's confusing but I think "Stoke" is the town you're looking for.
[/quoteIf we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
sorry I meant Tunstall - or one of the other five towns
I accept it's confusing but I think "Stoke" is the town you're looking for.
whatever ............one of the six towns I should have said
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with - plus the upheaval of players leaving - asking the younger players to step up is risking it as they have not had much experience or game time this season - it's gonna be interesting to see how Bruce plays things from here on in - secure play off spot and then rest players for 3 cup finals?
Why on earth would we be worried about Small Heath? If they manage to stay up it will be by the skin of their teeth, again, and i'd suggest they will be their usual selves again next season I.e. utter shite
-
It's criminal we're not above this Cardiff team. They're absolute shite.
-
It's criminal we're not above this Cardiff team. They're absolute shite.
Just fucking equalised
-
It's criminal we're not above this Cardiff team. They're absolute shite.
It tells you more about us.
-
Criminal we lost to QPR and didn't beat Hull (Bolton in those conditions was a bit of a lottery so I give them a pass there).
5 points behind Cardiff with their run of games and I'd believe we could do it, 10 is far too much.
-
So annoying. Said they'd start dropping points in April but we couldn't even pick up an average return for March and give ourselves a chance. If we beat cardiff it will add insult to injury for me.
-
Monk will go in the summer when he realises he has three pence to spend. Provided he empties the sofa in his office.
-
It's criminal we're not above this Cardiff team. They're absolute shite.
Watched the second half tonight. Cardiff just battle and battle and don't give up but they really are piss poor. Sheff Utd should of buried them. The fact that they're 10 points ahead of us reflects very badly on Bruce's management.
-
If we are still here next season I can see it being tougher to go up with Small Heath, Baggies, and Burslem to contend with
We won't be contending with Port Vale surely?
Try Shrewsbury Town.
We have to do it this year. I don’t fancy going to Shrewsbury with Davis and Cameron Jerome up front.
-
There's a good chance we will be a point behind Cardiff after we beat them next week. They've got a game in hand against Bottler County mind, but it would be pretty annoying to miss out by 3 or 4 points on 2nd owing to these 3 piss poor performances.
-
There's a good chance we will be a point behind Cardiff after we beat them next week. They've got a game in hand against Bottler County mind, but it would be pretty annoying to miss out by 3 or 4 points on 2nd owing to these 3 piss poor performances.
Pot calling the...
-
Still just about in the hunt for automatic promotion after tonight but our chances of staying that way will probably be confirmed either way by this time next week.
-
Cardiff lose to Wolves. We beat Norwich. Fulham draw at Sheff Wednesday. We beat Cardiff.
Game on.
-
Fulham show no sign of losing. The's the problem.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
-
It's not "no" chance. Granted, it's small. Very, very small. But it's still a chance.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a7297988cd2c2afd75026454a9dad477/tenor.gif?itemid=5465317)
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
-
We're four points off where we should be.
We'd have a decent chance if we did like Fulham now have.
-
All we can hope for is the chance of a 35k + Villa Park under the lights stormer against Cardiff next week. If we turn them over, we’ll give them something to worry about if we play them again in the play offs if nowt else.
-
Do we ever do things the easy way...
-
Kodjia will prove to be the difference now. A cert to score the winner in the Wembley play-off final!
-
Do we ever do things the easy way...
We did tonight.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
-
I think Cardiff will beat Wolves
-
I think Cardiff will beat Wolves
So you're saying we'll go up as Champions?
-
I think Cardiff will beat Wolves
Me too.
-
Wolves to win in Cardiff. Sheffield United comfortably outplayed Cardiff but failed at the end to hold on. Can see Wolves out playing Cardiff.
-
I hope tonight is the start of another run, this time it's 10 in a row needed.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
Let's just say by this time next week we have won our next two games, Cardiff have lost both and Fulham have drawn one and won one. We would be level on points with Fulham and one point behind Cardiff (though they would have a game in hand away at Derby). Not an incredibly unlikely scenario and would we still have no chance at that point?
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
Let's just say by this time next week we have won our next two games, Cardiff have lost both and Fulham have drawn one and won one. We would be level on points with Fulham and one point behind Cardiff (though they would have a game in hand away at Derby). Not an incredibly unlikely scenario and would we still have no chance at that point?
For sure. But what are the chances of that scenario playing out. Just hope come Tuesday we have at least beat Norwich and Cardiff drop points to wolves. As we saw against wolves a big game can lift us..
-
Fulham show no sign of losing. The's the problem.
The game at Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday could be testing in as much as form for owls been okay think won last 3 or 4.
Hoping that can at least be a draw. I can't think Fulham will just win every match. They'll have a blip or 2 or off day. One where things don't go there way.
Seemingly only likes of man city, Bayern Munich PSG and barca are teams who are consistently going to win. Fulham aren't this! Though they may only lose or draw a few before matches are out!
Here's hoping.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
Let's just say by this time next week we have won our next two games, Cardiff have lost both and Fulham have drawn one and won one. We would be level on points with Fulham and one point behind Cardiff (though they would have a game in hand away at Derby). Not an incredibly unlikely scenario and would we still have no chance at that point?
For sure. But what are the chances of that scenario playing out. Just hope come Tuesday we have at least beat Norwich and Cardiff drop points to wolves. As we saw against wolves a big game can lift us..
Hardly beyond the realms of possibility, but we shall see.
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
Let's just say by this time next week we have won our next two games, Cardiff have lost both and Fulham have drawn one and won one. We would be level on points with Fulham and one point behind Cardiff (though they would have a game in hand away at Derby). Not an incredibly unlikely scenario and would we still have no chance at that point?
For sure. But what are the chances of that scenario playing out. Just hope come Tuesday we have at least beat Norwich and Cardiff drop points to wolves. As we saw against wolves a big game can lift us..
The chances are a lot better than "no chance"
The probability is that we won't do it but while there's a chance, you have to go for it.
-
The chances are slim to none and slim left town.
-
The chances are slim to none and slim left town.
So not "absolutely no chance" then?
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
No absolutely no chance of automatic.
Let's just say by this time next week we have won our next two games, Cardiff have lost both and Fulham have drawn one and won one. We would be level on points with Fulham and one point behind Cardiff (though they would have a game in hand away at Derby). Not an incredibly unlikely scenario and would we still have no chance at that point?
This is the scenario I've been hanging onto, if we win our next two we have a chance. 6 wins would put us on 91 points
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
So you think Cardiff, the team that hasn't lost a league game in over three months, is going to lose at least three of their remaining seven?
And 'at least' relies on us winning all six of ours which would be incredible in itself.
There is no chance. The key for us now is to get to the play offs without any injuries and I'm reasonable form.
-
I still think Cardiff could blow it
If they lose their next two (wolves and us) then I can imagine panic setting in
Not saying I predict it, but it’s not that unlikely. It wasnt that long ago that Cardiff lost 5 on the bounce.
Even if that happens, I think Fulham will probably finish above us. Which is still preferable to having to play them in the play offs - so oddly whenever they win I’m not too disappointed at the moment
-
Alas, the chances of automatic qualification are very slim. Play offs look our best bet.
On a positive note, the teams currently in 7th, 8th and 9th position (Bristol City, Millwall and Sheff Utd) are 11 points behind us with a much inferior goal difference and difficult games ahead.
Of their remaining 6 fixtures, Millwall play 5 of the top 8 teams, Sheff Utd play 4 of the top 9 teams and Bristol City play 3 out of the top 8.
That is a lot of points automatically being dropped by our chasers and we must be very close to already being in the play offs.
Any mathematical geniuses out there?
-
You'd have to hope Wolves beat Cardiff and we win our next two. If we then beat Leeds on the Friday we'd actually be above them, so it's a different pressure on their Norwich game off the back of 2 defeats. Fulham of course may also be above them too. It's a slim chance and out of our hands. Let's try and win all 6 we have left.
As for the Play Offs, 11 points is a 4 game turn around with 6 to go I think we're likely 1 win away from mathematical certainty as I don't think 6th will get more than 75 points.
There's quite a chase on for 6th looking at the table.
-
Derby and Middlesbrough have tough run-ins as well.
5th and 6th spots in the league will be very interesting.
-
Just keep winning and who knows? Keep the focus.
Leave the others to worry about screwing up.
2nd is doubtful, but we should aim to enter the play-offs with a swagger.
-
We need to get some form going into the play offs it's about winning now anyway we can I would like us to be on a winning run going into them because you look at the other contenders they are hitting good form so we need to match or better them.
-
Of the teams chasing the play offs, who are we all hoping get in there? For me it would be Bristol City. They've gone right off the boil and were one of the worst teams at VP this season.
I wouldn't fancy Millwall, they're a tough nut to crack and would have nothing to lose as massive underdogs.
-
If it has to be the play offs, Bristol City would be cool with Cardiff in the final.
With the play offs practically guaranteed, we have nothing to lose by going for all out attack in the remaining six fixtures and see if we can rattle the teams above us.
-
Of the teams chasing the play offs, who are we all hoping get in there? For me it would be Bristol City. They've gone right off the boil and were one of the worst teams at VP this season.
I wouldn't fancy Millwall, they're a tough nut to crack and would have nothing to lose as massive underdogs.
Fulham to get second. Cardiff to get Millwall in the semis and lose. We beat Derby over 2 legs and meet Milwall in the final
-
I think Cardiff will beat Wolves
So you're saying we'll go up as Champions?
Nothing would surprise me with Villa. I sometimes feel we could nick 2nd, but the feeling evaporates quite quickly. Let's just win every remaining game and see.
-
Brucey said his boys have a points target of 87 and he feels any team who gets above that is deserved in promotion.
This there or thereabouts seems to be promotion or just outside automatic promotion.
Now 4 wins and 2 draws are needed to get this 14 points to 87. Brucey target.
In aiming for wins Cardiff match is a must win.
(they all are!) but for this points total 14 more points needed from these fixtures.
Norwich
Cardiff
Leeds
Ipswich
Derby
Millwall
-
I'll have some of what Tom and QV are drinking!
We've absolutely no chance of automatic from here.
Of course we have a chance. Wolves still need 3 points on Friday night against Cardiff. It's not beyond the realms of fantasy that they will get them. We win against Norwich and then Cardiff on Tuesday and we're a point behind.
I wouldn't put my mortgage on it admittedly but to say there is no chance is ridiculous.
So you think Cardiff, the team that hasn't lost a league game in over three months, is going to lose at least three of their remaining seven?
And 'at least' relies on us winning all six of ours which would be incredible in itself.
There is no chance. The key for us now is to get to the play offs without any injuries and I'm reasonable form.
I think there is a CHANCE that Cardiff can lose their next 2. There is a CHANCE we can win our next 2. That would put us 1 point behind them. They would then suddelny come under enormous pressure.There would then be a CHANCE that we could finish above them.
The probability is that we won't but there is a CHANCE.
-
Score board pressure is a potential factor.
If we win our next three and Cardiff lose against Wolves, then there is a pressure on their game a week Saturday at Norwich, a point behind us [and maybe Fulham too] that wasn't there before.
Who knows. They'll need to only win 3 of their last 7 and maybe a couple of defeats in a few days and suddenly being behind the game points wise, despite the game in hand, will shatter confidence.
-
Of the teams chasing the play offs, who are we all hoping get in there? For me it would be Bristol City. They've gone right off the boil and were one of the worst teams at VP this season.
I wouldn't fancy Millwall, they're a tough nut to crack and would have nothing to lose as massive underdogs.
I'd be fine with Derby. They've been terrible last few months.
I think we could take Boro over two legs although those would be two tight games given the managers involved.
Think those two are most likely for 5th, maybe Sheffield United. They played pretty well against us in both games so shouldn't be underestimated.
Brentford could yet sneak in, we struggle badly against their style so they'd be a dangerous team.
-
In order to get second
We need to win all six
We need Fulham to draw a couple of away games
We need Cardiff to collapse with only 10 points from there last 7 games.
It’s a straw and I’m clutching it.
-
I'm more of a scenario let Cardiff collapse but let Fulham get second.
I don't want to play Fulham at any stage in the play offs as I have the opinion they'd beat us as they're a bloomin good team at this level.
Warnock may be many things but even he'd struggle to gee Cardiff up for the play offs if they blow second now so that would be good news for us I'd suspect.
If we finish 4th and get through the semi we'd be playing the sixth place team in the final I reckon in that scenario.
-
Of the teams chasing the play offs, who are we all hoping get in there? For me it would be Bristol City. They've gone right off the boil and were one of the worst teams at VP this season.
I wouldn't fancy Millwall, they're a tough nut to crack and would have nothing to lose as massive underdogs.
I'd be fine with Derby. They've been terrible last few months.
I think we could take Boro over two legs although those would be two tight games given the managers involved.
Think those two are most likely for 5th, maybe Sheffield United. They played pretty well against us in both games so shouldn't be underestimated.
Brentford could yet sneak in, we struggle badly against their style so they'd be a dangerous team.
Agreed. I would actually fear Brentford and Fulham the most of all potential opposition. It would also be painful if we were to get knocked out by Brentford and see them go up, as Dean Smith would be my number 1 choice for manager next season if we failed in the play-offs.
-
Not sure what it says that the sides mentioned above as ones we struggle against, are teams that like to pass the ball around.
-
that we don't like playing teams that can pass?
-
Do we struggle against Fulham? Or do we just struggle at Craven Cottage?
-
Do we struggle against Fulham? Or do we just struggle at Craven Cottage?
The latter.
-
Do we struggle against Fulham? Or do we just struggle at Craven Cottage?
The latter.
Our home win over them last year was as comfortable a 1-0 as you will ever see.
-
I'm wondering what the point of getting promoted is if we cannot beat QPR, Bolton, Hull and all of our next 6 opponents.
If we get up we will be torn apart by the 'top 6' plus Burnley, swansea, leicester etc
-
I'm wondering what the point of getting promoted is if we cannot beat QPR, Bolton, Hull and all of our next 6 opponents.
If we get up we will be torn apart by the 'top 6' plus Burnley, swansea, leicester etc
Because we wouldn't have the exact same players next season. And we belong in the top flight.
-
Do we struggle against Fulham? Or do we just struggle at Craven Cottage?
The latter.
Our home win over them last year was as comfortable a 1-0 as you will ever see.
They're a far better side now and still in-form. They wouldn't be the same meek team coming to VP as before. Ideally we want to be avoiding them.
-
Do we struggle against Fulham? Or do we just struggle at Craven Cottage?
The latter.
They beat us when they were playing home games at Loftus Road. I remember Crouch missing a sitter.
-
shit record at VP though but I suppose by the law of averages that's got to change - as has our record there.
-
Form can change quickly. 2nd is all but gone but I’m pretty confident that the chances of us starting the playoffs in QPR/Bolton form and Fulham still playing as well as they have been are relatively small.
What we need is to be on one of those streaks and for the final to be a Bristol City/wolves game where it all clicks.
-
When Jedinak starts and with out back 4 it can be pretty static against real movement and quick passing from the opposition in midfield.
Preston for example a few weeks back pressed the hell out of us in midfield and we were fortunate to get to the hour just one down.
We can get away with it to a degree at VP as most teams (like Fulham did) come and put numbers behind the ball but on home turf it's obviously different.
Team we've most struggle against since we've come down are Brentford. 4 games and only arguable game we deserved to win was the first one. The other three comprehensively outplayed.
Is that because we're petrified of Brentford more than other teams? No it's just them having a style we struggle to counter.
-
I'm wondering what the point of getting promoted is if we cannot beat QPR, Bolton, Hull and all of our next 6 opponents.
If we get up we will be torn apart by the 'top 6' plus Burnley, swansea, leicester etc
What's the point of Wolves getting promoted if they get battered by The Likes of Villa?
-
I'm wondering what the point of getting promoted is if we cannot beat QPR, Bolton, Hull and all of our next 6 opponents.
If we get up we will be torn apart by the 'top 6' plus Burnley, swansea, leicester etc
What's the point of Wolves getting promoted if they get battered by The Likes of Villa?
Good point well made that will be recycled when I next see my dingle mate
-
Form can change quickly. 2nd is all but gone but I’m pretty confident that the chances of us starting the playoffs in QPR/Bolton form and Fulham still playing as well as they have been are relatively small.
What we need is to be on one of those streaks and for the final to be a Bristol City/wolves game where it all clicks.
You sound like Steve Bruce, Mossman. No offence intended.
Rather than "one of those streaks" and a final "where it all clicks" and "the chances of us starting the playoffs in QPR/Bolton form and Fulham still playing as well as they have been are relatively small" leaves a lot down to luck. Far too much in fact. The sad fact is that's where we are as we've failed to really build anything solid and dependable over the last 2 years. Consistency is not our friend.
-
There is a big gap between the championship and the premier league. Some clubs have bridged the gap well and had a decent season, some have struggled but survived and some have come straight back down. But we do have a manager who has dealt with trying to survive after promotion to the top flight on three different occasions (twice successfully, once not) so if anyone will know where we need to strengthen and the players needed to strengthen if and when we go up it is him. Also, we do have a nucleus of quality and certainly experience.
-
Who are you talking about, Damo, the 'promotion specialist'?
-
There is a big gap between the championship and the premier league. Some clubs have bridged the gap well and had a decent season, some have struggled but survived and some have come straight back down. But we do have a manager who has dealt with trying to survive after promotion to the top flight on three different occasions (twice successfully, once not) so if anyone will know where we need to strengthen and the players needed to strengthen if and when we go up it is him. Also, we do have a nucleus of quality and certainly experience.
I wouldn't say there's a huge gap to bottom half. None of the promoted three are in the bottom 3 and I think all 3 will survive.
Yes you need millions and millions to even try to break the top 6 as we tried but looks like 7th will be enough this year and it's Burnley who'll probably get that.
Two seasons ago they were playing at this level.
-
Form can change quickly. 2nd is all but gone but I’m pretty confident that the chances of us starting the playoffs in QPR/Bolton form and Fulham still playing as well as they have been are relatively small.
What we need is to be on one of those streaks and for the final to be a Bristol City/wolves game where it all clicks.
You sound like Steve Bruce, Mossman. No offence intended.
Rather than "one of those streaks" and a final "where it all clicks" and "the chances of us starting the playoffs in QPR/Bolton form and Fulham still playing as well as they have been are relatively small" leaves a lot down to luck. Far too much in fact. The sad fact is that's where we are as we've failed to really build anything solid and dependable over the last 2 years. Consistency is not our friend.
Ha, much offence taken!
I’m no fan of Bruce and I agree with your post. What I’m saying is we’ve probably got a better chance in the playoffs than it feels like after the last few games. If we’re bad run villa, we’ll lose to any of the 3 but good run villa would beat any of them. Reliant on luck? Yes. But on balance, a decent chance of getting through the playoffs? Probably yes.
-
If Fulham manage to get second I’d be pretty confident we can take the others - though there will still be four teams with a chance so I reckon it’d be about 50/50
I really don’t want to have to play Fulham though. They’re in great form and we don’t fare well against that sort of pass and move team (which is a big concern if we do go up)
-
If Fulham manage to get second I’d be pretty confident we can take the others - though there will still be four teams with a chance so I reckon it’d be about 50/50
I really don’t want to have to play Fulham though. They’re in great form and we don’t fare well against that sort of pass and move team (which is a big concern if we do go up)
It would be the game at Craven Cottage that would be the tough one. I think we would have a decent chance against them at home or at Wembley.
-
If Fulham manage to get second I’d be pretty confident we can take the others - though there will still be four teams with a chance so I reckon it’d be about 50/50
I really don’t want to have to play Fulham though. They’re in great form and we don’t fare well against that sort of pass and move team (which is a big concern if we do go up)
It would be the game at Craven Cottage that would be the tough one. I think we would have a decent chance against them at home or at Wembley.
Looking at the remaining fixtures I think Fulham are the most likely team to finish second. I'd say our chances are slim but not impossible. Cardiff will have to take points off us and Wolves which is a pretty tall order imo. I don't buy the theory that the play offs are a "lottery" I think that the best team will triumph as in any competition. With our previous in rising to the big games this season I'd say we're favourites to make it.
-
Wolves and Fulham play the best football so let's just hand it to them and leave us to wrestle Cardiff at Wembley. Fair play to Nuno and, er, Slavisa but Colin and Brucie are too conditioned for that tiki taka shit.
-
I'm starting to think that our final game at Millwall could well be a rehearsal for the play-off final
-
I'm starting to think that our final game at Millwall could well be a rehearsal for the play-off final
Or even the two legged tie.
For us to play Millwall in the final would mean that one of us (almost certainly them) would have to beat either Fulham or Cardiff first.
I think the 4 in the play offs will be ourselves, Fulham, Derby & Boro.
-
I'm starting to think that our final game at Millwall could well be a rehearsal for the play-off final
Or even the two legged tie.
For us to play Millwall in the final would mean that one of us (almost certainly them) would have to beat either Fulham or Cardiff first.
I think the 4 in the play offs will be ourselves, Fulham, Derby & Boro.
Yes and our final home game could be a rehearsal for the 2 legged semi against Derby if we have mathematically sealed 4th spot by then.
I see a Villa - Fulham Wembley final.
-
A couple of mathematical certainties now :
6 points and we are definitely in the playoffs
7 points and we are definitely 5th on 80 points
Derby can still get 21 points but have us, Wolves, Cardiff and Boro to play from their 7 remaining matches, I can see 80 points being enough to secure at least 4th.
-
Let's just smash Cardiff with a really heavy defeat and see how they react.
-
I'm starting to think that our final game at Millwall could well be a rehearsal for the play-off final
Or even the two legged tie.
For us to play Millwall in the final would mean that one of us (almost certainly them) would have to beat either Fulham or Cardiff first.
I think the 4 in the play offs will be ourselves, Fulham, Derby & Boro.
Yes and our final home game could be a rehearsal for the 2 legged semi against Derby if we have mathematically sealed 4th spot by then.
I see a Villa - Fulham Wembley final.
Could be either of these two but it won't be much of a rehearsal, I can see us resting many of our best eleven.
-
Let's just smash Cardiff with a really heavy defeat and see how they react.
Exactly this. A good old hiding can do strange things!
-
Let's just smash Cardiff with a really heavy defeat and see how they react.
Exactly this. A good old hiding can do strange things!
Yes! We'll lose our next two games.
-
Let's just smash Cardiff with a really heavy defeat and see how they react.
Exactly this. A good old hiding can do strange things!
Yes! We'll lose our next two games.
Indeed.
After we thumped then Wolves have got 10 points from a possible 12.
-
Let's just smash Cardiff with a really heavy defeat and see how they react.
Exactly this. A good old hiding can do strange things!
Yes! We'll lose our next two games.
Indeed.
After we thumped then Wolves have got 10 points from a possible 12.
However we collectively feel about Wolves (personally, I've grown to despise them and their fans in particular), they're different gravy to Cardiff. It's a veritable miracle that Cardiff haven't gone on a properly poor run of form the way they play, and honestly it says a lot about the standard of the majority of Championship teams that nobody has really found them out yet. I would love it to be us who expose them for the Hoofball XI that they are and send them spiraling.
Then put the final nail in their coffin at the play-offs.
-
harsh
-
Whatever you think of Cardiff's style of play you don't go more than three months without losing a match unless you're a very good side.
Anyone expecting them to lose 50% of their games from now until the end of the season might be better off hoping to ride a unicorn to work on Monday morning.
-
Whatever you think of Cardiff's style of play you don't go more than three months without losing a match unless you're a very good side.
Anyone expecting them to lose 50% of their games from now until the end of the season might be better off hoping to ride a unicorn to work on Monday morning.
So you're telling me there's a chance
-
Whatever you think of Cardiff's style of play you don't go more than three months without losing a match unless you're a very good side.
Anyone expecting them to lose 50% of their games from now until the end of the season might be better off hoping to ride a unicorn to work on Monday morning.
It’s not like we are in a position to look down on Cardiff’s style of play.
It has also proven more effective than the random nature of Bruceball.
-
It’s not like we are in a position to look down on Cardiff’s style of play.
It has also proven more effective than the random nature of Bruceball.
I beg to differ. From what I've seen of Cardiff they have very little 'style' and if promoted will surely be favourites to be relegated. We may not be fluid but with so many talented players in the squad when we do get it right, we're a joy to watch. Our only problem has been a major lack of consistency. It's what has made this season so frustrating.
-
It’s not like we are in a position to look down on Cardiff’s style of play.
It has also proven more effective than the random nature of Bruceball.
I beg to differ. From what I've seen of Cardiff they have very little 'style' and if promoted will surely be favourites to be relegated. We may not be fluid but with so many talented players in the squad when we do get it right, we're a joy to watch. Our only problem has been a major lack of consistency. It's what has made this season so frustrating.
"when we get it right" is the most important bit of that and it's why I find the whole thing so frustrating. Our approach, ever since Bruce arrived, appears to be to organise the defence and let the creative players get on with it at the other end, and just make sure we've got a good mix of creative options. With our spending power, in this league, and reputation we have been able to get in players who wouldn't have wanted to drop out of the premier league for many other clubs but it's not sustainable and if we go up it's not going to work. I wish we were trying to create a club ethos that made us better than the sum of our parts, rather thana platform for the better players to perform on.
-
It’s not like we are in a position to look down on Cardiff’s style of play.
It has also proven more effective than the random nature of Bruceball.
I beg to differ. From what I've seen of Cardiff they have very little 'style' and if promoted will surely be favourites to be relegated. We may not be fluid but with so many talented players in the squad when we do get it right, we're a joy to watch. Our only problem has been a major lack of consistency. It's what has made this season so frustrating.
Exactly, Villa have had a Jekyll & Hyde season. Cardiff are more like a Frankenstein's monster.
I'm not sure where this analogy is going, but again it's baffling to me how Cardiff have done so well the last few months. They had that bad spell at Christmas where they lost 4 in a row but have rarely dropped a point since then. I say 'baffling' because, as Rudy says, they're... well... not very good.
-
only they are - and could easily still win the title.
-
only they are - and could easily still win the title.
They won't though. And I think Fulham will pip them to 2nd too.
-
It’s not like we are in a position to look down on Cardiff’s style of play.
It has also proven more effective than the random nature of Bruceball.
I beg to differ. From what I've seen of Cardiff they have very little 'style' and if promoted will surely be favourites to be relegated. We may not be fluid but with so many talented players in the squad when we do get it right, we're a joy to watch. Our only problem has been a major lack of consistency. It's what has made this season so frustrating.
"when we get it right" is the most important bit of that and it's why I find the whole thing so frustrating. Our approach, ever since Bruce arrived, appears to be to organise the defence and let the creative players get on with it at the other end, and just make sure we've got a good mix of creative options. With our spending power, in this league, and reputation we have been able to get in players who wouldn't have wanted to drop out of the premier league for many other clubs but it's not sustainable and if we go up it's not going to work. I wish we were trying to create a club ethos that made us better than the sum of our parts, rather thana platform for the better players to perform on.
Indeed. Another chapter in the never ending book 'Aston Villa - Missed Opportunities'.
-
Over the next week Cardiff are away at Wolves, Villa and Norwich which will make or break their push for automatic promotion.
-
Over the next week Cardiff are away at Wolves, Villa and Norwich which will make or break their push for automatic promotion.
and maybe ours too...
UTV
The Doc
-
Cardiff and Fulham will drop points. We simply have to make sure we don't.
-
Home to Wolves.
-
Home to Wolves.
Yes, my mistake. Point still stands though, if they come through that run still in second then fair play to them.
-
Come on the Dingles. You can sing 'mind the gap' to your hearts content tonight as long as you win.
-
Below is from the daily mail on Morrison at Cardiff.
This guy seems very tooling and hope he gets banned for his disrespect or scores and og this eve.
Be very interesting if he isn't banned and plays v Derby in a few weeks. Captain or any player shouldn't behave like that and respect other professionals.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5580893/Cardiff-captain-Sean-Morrison-calls-Derbys-Jason-Shackell-little-insecure-c.html
Morrison was filmed taking aim at various Derby players in expletive-filled rant
Cardiff skipper calls his Rams counterpart Richard Keogh a 's*** footballer'
He goes on to claim that Derby defender Alex Pearce is 'up your a***'
Morrison then mocks the size of on-loan Jason Shackell's manhood
The two teams are set to meet in crucial Championship game on April 24 :)
-
Cardiff looking like they always do. Shite.
-
I agree they look rubbish
But they never stop running and they pounce on sloppy passing. We can do a fair bit of sloppy passing so need to sharpen up
But it’s a fast paced game so I’m hoping they tire themselves out / albeit with a day’s extra rest
-
Can see Cardiff nicking this in last ten minutes.
-
Cardiff won't finish second after that. They will be mentally shot.
We need to win our next two, get the gap down to 1 point (to Cardiff) and see what Fulham have done.
-
After that ending, it's on. Believe. Win tomorrow and then let's get the place rocking on Tuesday.
-
Can somebody explain to me how Cardiff are second?
Wash your mouth out if you've ever accused us of being long ball. They did nothing until the last ten and then it was just aimless percentage punts into the box and long throws complete with towels.
They were utter dogshite and exactly like they always look whenever you see them.
-
If we win our next three we would actually be two points clear of Cardiff by this time next week.
That would be crazy.
-
If we win our next three we would actually be two points clear of Cardiff by this time next week.
That would be crazy.
The manner of their defeat as well could prove important.
-
That will knock the stuffing out of them. The high they had last week from a stoppage time equaliser has long passed. They looked really down at the end of that.
If (and it's a big if) we can win tomorrow and beat them on Tuesday then yes, it's back on. The pressure on Cardiff thereafter would be immense. Let's get tomorrow out of the way first. Tonight will have lifted the lads.
Oh and Jedinak HAS to play against Cardiff.
-
I'd love us to get second but really if Fulham aren't in the play offs I'd be pretty confident if the other three in with us were Derby, Cardiff and Boro.
-
Fulham won't win tomorrow. Fancy Wednesday for at least a draw.
-
It will either make or break Cardiff. If we win then the pressure is really on them and Colin and the side may just collapse.
-
Fulham won't win tomorrow. Fancy Wednesday for at least a draw.
In a perverse way, Fulham winning tomorrow wouldn't be a bad thing - It would simply crank up the pressure on Cardiff who would only be ahead by 2 points on Tuesday.
-
I'd like to think that if it really happens and we overhaul that points difference, fate wouldn't be so unkind that we'll have done it for bugger all. If we get within a sniff of second, no way it's not going down to the last knockings. It's against the rules of football drama.
-
2nd place is still very unlikely.
I think we'll come close, but get another kick in the nuts.
Playoffs.
-
If we do win tomorrow then next week will see our two biggest home games in a week since the two Albion games in 2015. VP will be bouncing against Cardiff...win that and it will be even better against Leeds.
-
2nd place is still very unlikely.
I think we'll come close, but get another kick in the nuts.
Playoffs.
Yes - It's still a big ask.
We only have ourselves to blame for the terrible start to the season and terrible December.
I think most Villa fans would prefer to see Cardiff in the play offs than Fulham though.
-
2nd place is still very unlikely.
I think we'll come close, but get another kick in the nuts.
Playoffs.
Yes - It's still a big ask.
We only have ourselves to blame for the terrible start to the season and terrible December.
I think most Villa fans would prefer to see Cardiff in the play offs than Fulham though.
Agree, I'd like to avoid Fulham.
-
That will knock the stuffing out of them. The high they had last week from a stoppage time equaliser has long passed. They looked really down at the end of that.
If (and it's a big if) we can win tomorrow and beat them on Tuesday then yes, it's back on. The pressure on Cardiff thereafter would be immense. Let's get tomorrow out of the way first. Tonight will have lifted the lads.
Oh and Jedinak HAS to play against Cardiff.
Was thinking the same about Jedinak watching the game. Would probably go for Hutton at LB as well to give us that extra height as well.
-
The pressure is on all three of us to not drop another point. We blinked first. Cardiff might just be blinking now. Will Fulham, is the question?
-
That will knock the stuffing out of them. The high they had last week from a stoppage time equaliser has long passed. They looked really down at the end of that.
If (and it's a big if) we can win tomorrow and beat them on Tuesday then yes, it's back on. The pressure on Cardiff thereafter would be immense. Let's get tomorrow out of the way first. Tonight will have lifted the lads.
Oh and Jedinak HAS to play against Cardiff.
Was thinking the same about Jedinak watching the game. Would probably go for Hutton at LB as well to give us that extra height as well.
Yes I thought about Hutton. He's not involved tomorrow because of injury. I hope he may miraculously be available for Tuesday night though.
-
It’s a long shot of course but stranger things have happened, but this time next week we could be 2nd.
-
If there were three games left, it would be very unlikely. But there's enough football still to be played to give it a glint of a possibility. We keep winning, and that's the chance. We can't do anything without that happening.
-
Realistically, we need Cardiff to lose 2 and draw 2 out of:
Forest & Reading at home
Norwich, Hull, Derby & ourselves away.
That would mean us needing to win 5 & draw 1 of our last 6 games and hoping that Fulham slip up in 2 of their games.
Currently, we're 6 points behind them with both teams having 6 games to play.
-
I just hope we don't 'do a Villa' and lose tomorrow. At least take it to Tuesday and give us some hope and something to get behind.
-
Realistically, we need Cardiff to lose 2 and draw 2 out of:
Forest & Reading at home
Norwich, Hull, Derby & ourselves away.
That would mean us needing to win 5 & draw 1 of our last 6 games and hoping that Fulham slip up in 2 of their games.
Currently, we're 6 points behind them with both teams having 6 games to play.
Well, we'll see what Norwich can offer tomorrow, I guess. Reading we can write off given how atrocious they were on Tuesday. Forest, who knows? Hull, more or less the same team as Cardiff, but shitter. Two losses and two draws are possible. Hopefully they're punch drunk come Tuesday night.
Fulham, quite rightly, are the big worry. At the moment they don't look like they could drop a point in the next year, let alone month. But I refuse to believe they'll not lose again this season. It's just too nip and tuck for someone not to do it to them. Can it happen twice?
-
Fulham have the easiest run in on paper by far, if we don't get second I hope it's Fulham after watching Cardiff tonight we have more of a chance of going up.
-
The thread is alive and well.
Fulham have the easiest run in on paper by far, if we don't get second I hope it's Fulham after watching Cardiff tonight we have more of a chance of going up.
I'll tell you something about Fulham they have to go to Hillsborough and get something.
I think a draw is on cards.
Wednesday decent form at the moment
Villa play Norwich 1 win in 10 Norwich and that was against Reading.
Up the villa!!
-
Fulham won't win tomorrow. Fancy Wednesday for at least a draw.
Agree.
Villas time to shine.
Did I mention 1 win in 10 for Norwich!
-
Hope has raised an eyebrow...no more at the moment. But come this time next week we could have points in the bag and be 2nd.
Funny old game.
-
5 more points and Wolves are promoted.
-
If we are second in a week’s time I think I’ll self combust.
-
5 more points and Wolves are promoted.
Now that was way optimistic anyone thinking they would blow it or we could catch them.
Edit: As it stands Wolves would get promoted with win over SHA. Good bored of them winning and making their relegation fight look easy.
-
Fulham have the easiest run in on paper by far, if we don't get second I hope it's Fulham after watching Cardiff tonight we have more of a chance of going up.
I still think that if we win all our remaining games we'll go up automatically. Massive 'if' I accept, but we have had those kind of runs before.
-
Bruce is a streaky manager. He's proved that time and again with us. Now is the perfect time to cement that definition of him by going on a win streak to the end of the season.
-
The thread is alive and well.
Fulham have the easiest run in on paper by far, if we don't get second I hope it's Fulham after watching Cardiff tonight we have more of a chance of going up.
I'll tell you something about Fulham they have to go to Hillsborough and get something.
I think a draw is on cards.
Wednesday decent form at the moment
Villa play Norwich 1 win in 10 Norwich and that was against Reading.
Up the villa!!
I read your quote as Kevin Keegan speaking in '96
-
The thread is alive and well.
Fulham have the easiest run in on paper by far, if we don't get second I hope it's Fulham after watching Cardiff tonight we have more of a chance of going up.
I'll tell you something about Fulham they have to go to Hillsborough and get something.
I think a draw is on cards.
Wednesday decent form at the moment
Villa play Norwich 1 win in 10 Norwich and that was against Reading.
Up the villa!!
I read your quote as Kevin Keegan speaking in '96
Love it!
-
Bruce is a streaky manager. He's proved that time and again with us. Now is the perfect time to cement that definition of him by going on a win streak to the end of the season.
But can he streak when the tulips come up and the tickly bit starts?
-
Bruce is a streaky manager. He's proved that time and again with us. Now is the perfect time to cement that definition of him by going on a win streak to the end of the season.
But can he streak when the tulips come up and the tickly bit starts?
Bruce streaking? Well if he gets us up then fair enough but I’ll look away if that’s okay
-
Bruce is a streaky manager. He's proved that time and again with us. Now is the perfect time to cement that definition of him by going on a win streak to the end of the season.
But can he streak when the tulips come up and the tickly bit starts?
Well we're there or thereabouts which is where a club this side should be. Lets just enjoy it.
-
Bruce is a streaky manager. He's proved that time and again with us. Now is the perfect time to cement that definition of him by going on a win streak to the end of the season.
But can he streak when the tulips come up and the tickly bit starts?
Well we're there or thereabouts which is where a club this side should be. Lets just enjoy it.
Is that you Steve?
-
yes
-
Bunch of bottling wankers. We'll shit our pants in the play offs.
-
Lock the thread.
-
Come on Fulham. Go up automatically so we don't embarrass ourselves against such a Mickey Mouse no mark side in the play offs.
-
Fulham deserve to go up the way they have kept this run going. And I’d rather play Cardiff than them in the play offs, not that I have any confidence with anyone at the moment!
-
We have to be mentally prepared for the play offs.
Cardiff won't be given where they've been for last two months.
-
We have to be mentally prepared for the play offs.
Cardiff won't be given where they've been for last two months.
We look tired and out of ideas.
-
We have to be mentally prepared for the play offs.
Cardiff won't be given where they've been for last two months.
Eh? That won’t make a difference. It’s the manager who has the best plan for the opponents and who has been able to convey that to his players who then execute that will decide it. Cardiff have been solid all season long. Warnock has a good pedigree getting the best out of his players and getting promoted. Right now if you asked me to choose between him and Bruce I’d say he’d have the edge.
-
If we can't compete with a ropey Norwich side, fresh from a 1 win in 10 record, it doesn't fucking matter who we play in the promotion lottery.
-
We won't win the play offs. We look slow, sluggish, tired and lacking creativity and ideas. We have no plan B when we go a goal down or we're chasing a game.
-
If we can't compete with a ropey Norwich side, fresh from a 1 win in 10 record, it doesn't fucking matter who we play in the promotion lottery.
I understand that but have you seen the form of most of the other teams? Derby have won two games in two months, Boro didn't beat Burton the other day. Those two are the ones we're most likely to play.
We have to be realistic and accept it's the play offs now rather than this forlon hope of second.
If we go in with the right mentality we have as good a chance as the other three (as long as Fulham aren't in with us).
-
The good runs kept giving us hope but ultimately you can't keep having bad runs, and under Bruce we have 3 a season, and finish in the top 2. It's what I felt would always fuck us up as despite his claims "it's the Championship" it's because he's not good enough. The top 2 each season seem to manage to avoid multiple "well it's the Championship" bad runs. Cardiff as a team are greater than the sum of their parts, we far too often still look like a bunch of individuals that were signed the day before and have never even trained together.
Play-offs it is and we've shown on our day we can batter anybody, Wolves and Bristol C at home for example, we've also shown anyone can batter us, comfortable 3-1 defeats to dross like Norwich and QPR. We'll just have to hope our players click for 3 games because I have no confidence that that manager can do it so we'll be relying, as we have far too often under Bruce, on our superior individuals doing some magic.
-
Agree PWS, the fear I have is that Bruce will fuck up any chance we have.
-
For me it was only that 8 game winning run when we actually looked like genuine contenders for the top 2.
-
Pretty much that PWS.
I'd back us to win the two legged semi.
How we perform at Wembley though is anyone's guess if we get through.
-
Agree PWS, the fear I have is that Bruce will fuck up any chance we have.
That squad should not fear anybody in this league let alone the play offs.
-
We're not going to have a chance of promotion if our form doesn't improve a lot.
-
I said it before but when it came to the serious promotion stuff we've made our excuses and left. We're the only one of the 4 to bottle it so far.
-
It's no longer about the manager.
It's about how the players perform.
No point worrying about momentum as we have none. Better to continually rotate the side between now and the play offs.
There's a long way to go before we can talk about "bottling it"
-
Well we've bottled automatic promotion, 14 points from the last 10 games shows that. We now have to show that we won't bottle the play-offs.
-
Losing 10 games has killed us - in order to get a play off spot I think 5 points will be enough - as long as we draw against Millwall - or 7 points from 5 games to guarantee a play off spot - but where are those points coming from?
3 home games - draw with Cardiff, Draw with Derby , Draw with Leeds
2 away games - draw with Ipswich , lose to Millwall
Gives us 4 points - not enough??
-
We should have been the Man Utd of the championship when in fact we’ve turned out to be the arsenal of the championship.
-
Well we've bottled automatic promotion, 14 points from the last 10 games shows that. We now have to show that we won't bottle the play-offs.
No - We've been inconsistent all season.
We've never really been in serious contention for autos, except possibly after the Wolves game.
VCM says that losing 10 has killed us. That is not the case. Newcastle lost 10 last season and still won the league. It is the inability to turn draws into wins that has killed us.
None of this matters - We need to look ahead and it is down to the players now - I have no confidence in the manager.
-
Well we've bottled automatic promotion, 14 points from the last 10 games shows that. We now have to show that we won't bottle the play-offs.
No - We've been inconsistent all season.
We've never really been in serious contention for autos, except possibly after the Wolves game.
VCM says that losing 10 has killed us. That is not the case. Newcastle lost 10 last season and still won the league. It is the inability to turn draws into wins that has killed us.
None of this matters - We need to look ahead and it is down to the players now - I have no confidence in the manager.
We went second after the Blues game. To me that's being in serious contention.
-
As MW says, we went second after that result. 7 points ahead of Fulham, 4 ahead of Cardiff (who had a game in hand). 10 games later we're 4th, 5 points behind Fulham and 7 behind Cardiff who still have a game in hand. While both sides have in fairness had great runs, our run since going second is a ppg that sees sides finish 10th-12th never mind 2nd.
-
We've bottled it since the Wolves game no question.
Manager AND players to blame for that.
SB for not rotating for the QPR game and some of the senior players not being honest with him and admitted they'd struggle to get their intensity levels up again.
Things have just snowballed from there.
-
We won't win the play offs. We look slow, sluggish, tired and lacking creativity and ideas. We have no plan B when we go a goal down or we're chasing a game.
No plan B? I have seen Bruce change the formation a few times, like putting on more forwards and taking off the midfielders that would supply the front men.
-
As MW says, we went second after that result. 7 points ahead of Fulham, 4 ahead of Cardiff (who had a game in hand). 10 games later we're 4th, 5 points behind Fulham and 7 behind Cardiff who still have a game in hand. While both sides have in fairness had great runs, our run since going second is a ppg that sees sides finish 10th-12th never mind 2nd.
It's not down to bottling it though. As others have alluded to, we specialise in little fits and bursts. We've been inconsistent all season, plodding along, waiting for the daffodils to shoot up.
You could argue that Derby had a chance at auto as they also went 2nd around the same time.
We've been poor. We set out to sneak 1-0s against sides around us and it always backfires. (Wolves, Cardiff, Derby, Fulham) We go a goal down and there's no plan B (if there was ever a plan A)
The reason we are in this mess is not down to bottling it - It is down to the manager and his obsession with "waiting for the daffodils to shoot up"
We need to start going into these games with scant regard to the opposition. That's what Wolves do and that's what Fulham do. Being negative and "relying on a bit of quality" to sneak us a 1-0 doesn't work. Things have moved on from that. So to get back to my original point, we need to look at the players and how they will cope with the play offs and probable penalties at some point.
-
We won't win the play offs. We look slow, sluggish, tired and lacking creativity and ideas. We have no plan B when we go a goal down or we're chasing a game.
No plan B? I have seen Bruce change the formation a few times, like putting on more forwards and taking off the midfielders that would supply the front men.
I’m just waiting for him to try a 0-4-6 formation.
-
I said it before but when it came to the serious promotion stuff we've made our excuses and left. We're the only one of the 4 to bottle it so far.
Yes exactly. When push came shove we pulled up.
-
Got to win Tuesday and give Fulham a leg up and all but confirm we are going to Derby first.
The Bottle Bank derby with Derby.
-
Got to win Tuesday and give Fulham a leg up and all but confirm we are going to Derby first.
The Bottle Bank derby with Derby.
Zut.
-
Hull 4-0 QPR today.
That QPR night was when we lost any realistic hope of second.
Another frustration will be if Fulham get it that they came from even further back than we did to overhaul Cardiff.
-
no, good luck to Fulham 18 games or so unbeaten is tremendous form. If we scrape into the top six I'd rather they weren't in the mix.
-
no, good luck to Fulham 18 games or so unbeaten is tremendous form. If we scrape into the top six I'd rather they weren't in the mix.
Would much rather Fulham take second now
-
Same and I think they will. 4 points next week and we can play the stiffs till Derby away.
-
no, good luck to Fulham 18 games or so unbeaten is tremendous form. If we scrape into the top six I'd rather they weren't in the mix.
It’s hard to say anything nice about another club, but Fulham’s run has been incredible. Imagine how we’d be feeling now.
-
I said it before but when it came to the serious promotion stuff we've made our excuses and left. We're the only one of the 4 to bottle it so far.
Yes exactly. When push came shove we pulled up.
No. We just reverted to type.
We had our pretty little 7 game winning streak from the turn of the year and then after that it's been back to our form previously. We haven't bottled it, it's too early to bottle it as there has been no pressure. We just aren't good enough and that has shown over 40 games.
Even in that winning run, we weren't great in every game. Sheffield United could quite easily have been a Bolton and Sheffield Wednesday could quite easily have been a Norwich.
-
Brassneck yes on reflection totally agree with you.
-
Yes.
And, of course, Norwich could have been a Sheffield Wednesday.
-
Given how we go on a good run after a bad run, we'll be just about ready for the good run and play-offs again soon....
-
Given how we go on a good run after a bad run, we'll be just about ready for the good run and play-offs again soon....
Ha! There's logic in your madness.
-
Given how we go on a good run after a bad run, we'll be just about ready for the good run and play-offs again soon....
Ha! There's logic in your madness.
It's true though. When we get going, the run lasts a good few games, then we fuck it up royally for 2-3-4 games. We've all gone from being deliriously happy (I defy anyone to feel that 4-0 against Wolves caused anything else) to being rightly proper fucked off again.
8 games left of the season, we can lose a bunch and win the last three.
-
It was only 4-1
-
i've convinced myself we are not going to finish in the top six. So if we do, I'm going to feel a lot better and no worse than I do now.
-
I really want Fulham to get that second spot don't fancy playing them in the play offs.
-
i've convinced myself we are not going to finish in the top six. So if we do, I'm going to feel a lot better and no worse than I do now.
There's no chance three teams below us will overtake us in the next five matches. Millwall have got to win 3 more games than us out of five and Derby two. Before their last two matches Derby hadn't won in 8!!!
-
i've convinced myself we are not going to finish in the top six. So if we do, I'm going to feel a lot better and no worse than I do now.
There's no chance three teams below us will overtake us in the next five matches. Millwall have got to win 3 more games than us out of five and Derby two. Before their last two matches Derby hadn't won in 8!!!
our current form fails to inspire confidence - if we fail to reach the play offs I fear for the future of this club
-
Mad ting.
-
2 more points to secure the playoffs.
-
2 more points to secure the playoffs.
Well done Bruce!
-
Even just 1 win from Bolton, Norwich or QPR would have had us in with a real shout.
-
Even just 1 win from Bolton, Norwich or QPR would have had us in with a real shout.
Yes i enjoyed tonight but it's difficult not to remember those games under the circumstances.
-
Bruceys target is 87 points. 3 wins and a draw when 4 wins would be great unless he knows Fulham are going to lose next 2 London derbies and to blues.
-
I keep hearing about this points total he's aiming for, "and if another team gets more we pat them on the back and say 'well done'". Surely he couldn't be so monumentally fucking stupid?!
-
What a missed opportunity for second this season.
Ah well bring on more Warnock ball in the play offs. We will be ready.
-
What a missed opportunity for second this season.
Ah well bring on more Warnock ball in the play offs. We will be ready.
Yep but it’s not over bizarrely. All it takes (albeit unlikely) is for one loss for Fulham and one for us for it to become all on again. Granted Fulham are on fire and Cardiff have that game in hand.
-
W16 D4 L0 is an obscene run from Fulham.
-
If, if and if, but the fact that the gap was ten points and now it's five is doing my head in. One extra game (assuming Fulham do a Devon Loch, starting Saturday teatime) and in a bizarre kind of way I'd fancy our chances.
-
What if it comes down to relying on the unwashed to beat Fulham in the last game of the season for Villa to get automatic promotion.
-
What if it does?
-
Can you imagine the mental agonies of the Blues fans, trying to work out whether they'd rather go down than help the Vile?
-
Final day. We'll draw 0-0 at Millwall, Cardiff and Fulham will both lose games you'd expect them to win and we go up on goals scored.
-
Final day. We'll draw 0-0 at Millwall, Cardiff and Fulham will both lose games you'd expect them to win and we go up on goals scored.
Nah, there's no precedent for that scenario.
-
I'd take going into the last game with a chance right now.
-
I'd take going into the last game with a chance right now.
Me too.
-
Forgot Cardiff have a game in hand.
I'd be very surprised if we take it to the final day, Fulham are what now 5 clear of us? They're not even drawing games last three months.
Best scenario is Cardiff in the play offs, they lacked so much quality from general play tonight, it's really night and day when you compare them to Fulham.
-
I would only take Cardiff in the final. Going to their place would be impossible. That probably won't happen given our positions though. Best case scenario is that they have to play Millwall so that nasty away trip is completely academic.
-
You just know that all the pieces will fall into place in the playoffs as you describe, then we’ll get well beaten by boro over 2 legs.
-
I would only take Cardiff in the final. Going to their place would be impossible. That probably won't happen given our positions though. Best case scenario is that they have to play Millwall so that nasty away trip is completely academic.
We were caught cold at the start of the season down there.
I'd be happy with either Derby or Boro from the realistic 5th place teams (although run Millwall are on they could finish 5th). One I'm a bit concerned about is Sheffield United.
They played well in both games against us and they'd also be the underdog element with little pressure so they're a dangerous opponent I'd rather avoid.
-
I cannot see Cardiff getting past the semis. They're a diabolical side reliant upon percentage football
It made me chuckle at the end when Gunnarsson took a throw only for it to come back to him and he failed in two attempts at lumping the ball into the box using his feet.
They're a well organised side and have the best defensive record in the league. But it's all sweat and cynicism beyond that defensive organisation. Their only attacking tactic is the percentage ball.
I'd fancy us against anybody in the Play Offs.
-
Fulham drew with QPR lately, after being two nil up but they've been bloody flawless apart from that over the last couple of months. They play the best football along with Wolves, both would be more at home in the Prem than us and Cardiff as things stand with current management etc.
Fulham have another tricky West London derby with Brentford next I think. If they lost that, it would be interesting to see their reaction. Can't see us beating Millwall away to take advantage of any slip-ups though and we would need to win that and beat all of Leeds, Ipswich, Derby to have any chance of pipping Fulham.
-
Fulham have got Brentford and Millwall their next two games. They won't win both of those.
-
I cannot see Cardiff getting past the semis. They're a diabolical side reliant upon percentage football
It made me chuckle at the end when Gunnarsson took a throw only for it to come back to him and he failed in two attempts at lumping the ball into the box using his feet.
They're a well organised side and have the best defensive record in the league. But it's all sweat and cynicism beyond that defensive organisation. Their only attacking tactic is the percentage ball.
I'd fancy us against anybody in the Play Offs.
They've got two players with absolutely monstrous throws, both of them were easily getting it over half the length of the pitch.
-
yes it was like watching Stoke in blue
-
I can't see the top 6 changing apart from maybe Boro beating Millwall at home to take 6th spot. Other than that, it's as you were.
-
The cardiff game yesterday and Derby on 28th could both be dress rehearsals for the semis
-
I can't see the top 6 changing apart from maybe Boro beating Millwall at home to take 6th spot. Other than that, it's as you were.
Sheffield United look to have hit a bit of form as well. They could possibly force their way back into contention. I actually wouldn't fancy playing them in the form that they showed against Cardiff recently.
-
Fulham have got Brentford and Millwall their next two games. They won't win both of those.
Fulham can win 2 and draw 2 of their final 4 games and still finish with more points than we can get. They also have a better goal difference by 6. Even if they draw to both Brentford & Millwall, the chances are that they'll win their other 2 games (Sunderland & Blues).
-
The cardiff game yesterday and Derby on 28th could both be dress rehearsals for the semis
Which scares the shit out of me given our results at their ground(s).
-
We wont win at Millwall and even if we do Fulham and Cardiff's remaining fixture mean we can't catch them. The Norwich defeat killed us.
-
I've thought for a while now that it'll be some no-mark team like Millwall that gets into the play offs then wins the big one at Wembley. Just to add to all the other small no-mark teams like Bournemouth and Huddersfield that have suddenly become a lot richer than us.
-
yes it was like watching Stoke in blue
That's Boro isn't it.
Imagine Boro-Cardiff play off, ball would ask to be subbed I think!
-
All teams from Burnley down are no mark teams.
-
The thought of Cardiff in the PL is bad enough, let alone Millwall
-
Imagine Boro-Cardiff play off, ball would ask to be subbed I think!
Coffee and lunch wiped off screen
-
I know Wolves have made most teams look average or poor this season, including us, but Derby look garbage. Wouldn't be surprised to see them slip out of the play offs.
-
All teams from Burnley down are no mark teams.
That’s not what he meant though. Teams like WBA, West Ham, Newcastle are not no-mark teams whilst Swansea, Huddersfield and Bmouth are mainly due to size and history.
-
It crossed my mind last night while Cardiff fans continually applauded throw ins exactly how much time the ball was actually in play. Because especially in the first half there seemed to be a distinct lack of football and more windmill arms as the innocent football was hurled into orbit.
-
The teams I want to avoid playing are Fulham, Millwall (especially in the semis) and Cardiff. Probably in that order.
Don’t mind the others so much
-
so we might end up playing ourselves?
-
I think Matt would be ok if we played Derby three times!
-
Villa are 2/1 with Coral to be promoted. That covers both the eventualities of automatic and play offs.
-
Bruceys target is 87 points. 3 wins and a draw when 4 wins would be great unless he knows Fulham are going to lose next 2 London derbies and to blues.
The target was 89. We can't get that if we win every game now.
-
I've thought for a while now that it'll be some no-mark team like Millwall that gets into the play offs then wins the big one at Wembley. Just to add to all the other small no-mark teams like Bournemouth and Huddersfield that have suddenly become a lot richer than us.
A corporate each for Charlie and I, then Edvard can have my ticket for the play off final, my good man. 😀
-
Villa are 2/1 with Coral to be promoted. That covers both the eventualities of automatic and play offs.
Tight bastards
-
Fulham still have a difficult run in. I'm not ruling out finishing 2nd just yet.
-
Fulham still have a difficult run in. I'm not ruling out finishing 2nd just yet.
Think they'll beat Brentford and also beat Sunderland and SHA. Millwall is the only game they might draw.
-
The one glimmer is that Fulham have to play teams with something to play for.
-
I think we will next 2 and secure 4th spot before we play Derby. In fact my playoff predictions are :
Cardiff v Brentford.. Brentford win
Villa v Millwall.. narrow Villa win
Villa win at Wembley
-
well I don't think that is going to happen. Brentford won't make the play offs and Milllwall will fancy themselves against anyone if they do. One defeat in 17 is amazing.
-
Let's see where Milwall are after they've finished playing Sheff Utd Fulham Boro and us - get through that lot and be Top 6 fair enough but probably take a lot out of them going into the play offs.
-
All teams from Burnley down are no mark teams.
That’s not what he meant though. Teams like WBA, West Ham, Newcastle are not no-mark teams whilst Swansea, Huddersfield and Bmouth are mainly due to size and history.
Don't Huddersfield have a more illustrious history than any of West Bromwich, West Ham or Newcastle?
-
Let's see where Milwall are after they've finished playing Sheff Utd Fulham Boro and us - get through that lot and be Top 6 fair enough but probably take a lot out of them going into the play offs.
They are the one team I don't want us to be drawn against. They are the Burnley type team that will bring you down to their level and revel in it.
-
Let's see where Milwall are after they've finished playing Sheff Utd Fulham Boro and us - get through that lot and be Top 6 fair enough but probably take a lot out of them going into the play offs.
They are the one team I don't want us to be drawn against. They are the Burnley type team that will bring you down to their level and revel in it.
Does that include the game back in December when they played us off the park and we got away with a 0-0?
-
Milwall are all balls and no brain sort of team on a roll. I don't think they'll make the Play Offs and full expect us to be beating Tiny Penis in the final.
Cardiff
Us
Derby
Boro
-
Premier League now investigating Wilved and Mendes.
Just our luck to be 4th and Wolves demoted
-
they won't be though - kettle calling pot black type of shit
-
they won't be though - kettle calling pot black type of shit
you are probably right.
They will want to avoid a Tevez scenario though.
-
weve made the playoffs
-
Well done Villa. Achieved the bare minimum at least. Now try your best for that second place.
-
1 more point and I believe it will be the first time time in the club's history that we've officially reached 80 points in a season*
*not including 2 points for a win seasons where if you switched it to 3 points we'd have passed the 80 mark. 1971/72 would be in 102 points in new money as an example.
-
So not really much of a landmark then.... sort of grade inflation ... its the modern way.
-
totally secondary modern
-
Yeah, football really began the season after we won the league - 3 points for a win era, not 1992. We should be so grateful to BSkyB that they didn't overhaul the points system when they revolutionised football. Thanks for your consideration, Keyesy and Co.
-
If I could choose (probably a good job I can't) I'd pick Derby then Cardiff at Wembley. Then we'd be promoted and have to buy seven players ..
-
I'd love that, me.
-
http://www.worldfootball.net/table_calculator/eng-championship/
got
wolves
fulham
cardiff
villa
derby
midlesbro
blose
sunderland burton
to go
-
Just had a look at the table and am starting to get a feeling! :o
-
I've got Villa promoted with 88 points.........Thanks to me
and no thanks to Norwich!
-
Automatic has gone. Hoping Fulham win tonight now.
-
I've got Villa promoted with 88 points.........Thanks to me
and no thanks to Norwich!
86
fulham 91 for me
-
Fulham in the playoff final me thinks
-
Fulham would exploit our lack of pace on that big Wembley pitch. I think they'd beat us fairly comfortably. We need them to go up 2nd and avoid them. Cardiff are shit but spawny, we'd beat them.
-
In a way Cardiff winning is a good thing. Means us and the players can concentrate on the play offs, rotate a few players and gear ourselves up for them. Much rather know our fate now than miss out on the last day.
-
This obsession about fulham exploiting a big Wembley pitch, was anyone at the villa park matches v them last two seasons.
-
Wembley 105x69m
VP 105x68m
I don't think we'll be able to blame the pitch should the improbable improbably pass.
-
This obsession about fulham exploiting a big Wembley pitch, was anyone at the villa park matches v them last two seasons.
Cairney was injured for them that day. Signing Mitrovic has also given them a cutting edge since January.
I'm firmly in the camp let them go up in second and Jedinak can head away the long throws from Boro and Cardiff in the play offs.
-
I now officially withdraw any lingering hopes and aspirations of finishing 2nd. Cardiff have proved time and time again this season that they have the ability to score late goals to earn vital points. Whenever we have been in those positions, we have looked laborious and predictable.
Disclaimer: Should, by some fluke, we do overtake Cardiff, I reserve the right to claim that I was in fact posting on behalf of Darren Wooley.
-
Pulis in the semis would be interesting. I'd love to put one over that pratt.
-
In a way Cardiff winning is a good thing. Means us and the players can concentrate on the play offs, rotate a few players and gear ourselves up for them.
My fear is we go stumbling into the play-offs. I'm a firm believer in practice makes perfect. By now, all the squad should know their roles whereby we can rotate seamlessly.
Cardiff have a pretty straight forward run-in now, only Derby away looking a place they could drop points.
Let's see how Fulham get on today. Apparently they weren't too sharp last week and I can't see them winning all their remaining games. It would be some winning streak if the managed it. As I said, practice makes perfect.
-
If I could choose (probably a good job I can't) I'd pick Derby then Cardiff at Wembley.
I was definitely hoping for this too. Unfortunately after today’s results it’s looking more like us having to play Millwall or Boro in the Semis, followed by Fulham at Wembley.
-
I'm with RCF. We play Saturday, Saturday, Sunday. That shouldn't be taxing. However unlikely it now looks, I'd like us to still aim for runners-up, and should it be the play-offs, I'd rather we went into them as a well-honed finished article.
-
Boro looks nailed on to me now.
-
I'm with RCF. We play Saturday, Saturday, Sunday. That shouldn't be taxing. However unlikely it now looks, I'd like us to still aim for runners-up, and should it be the play-offs, I'd rather we went into them as a well-honed finished article.
We should be aiming to get the squad in the best possible condition for the play offs
-
Two more points and we will have secured 4th and second leg at Villa Park.
I think Bruce will go all out against Ipswich to get those points and then rest players in the final 2 matches. By then I think the auto spots will be beyond us.
-
I don't see how a professional footballer not plying his trade for a fortnight will make them better prepared. They all (mostly) had two weeks off just, and I struggled to see much improvement when they came back.
-
Derby look shit, us and Cardiff still have to play them. We can funeral them.
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
-
Likes of QPR and Preston were dead atmospheres.
VP would be rocking at the start of a play off final second leg just as it was for Wolves and Cardiff. Bristol City was also a good atmosphere. All three games we've won and two of them were our two best performances of the season.
Of course there's no guarentee but I'd rather be at home second leg.
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
Just making the point. If you're one of the more notable bottlers in the league then a high pressure 2nd leg at home may not be ideal. It may have escaped your notice but since we more or less blew automatic promotion, form has considerably improved. I'm not saying its a disadvantage particularly either, just not sure it matters.
-
Why would we need to keep a clean sheet when away goals don't count double in the play-offs?
-
Why would we need to keep a clean sheet when away goals don't count double in the play-offs?
😂
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
Just making the point. If you're one of the more notable bottlers in the league then a high pressure 2nd leg at home may not be ideal. It may have escaped your notice but since we more or less blew automatic promotion, form has considerably improved. I'm not saying its a disadvantage particularly either, just not sure it matters.
Besides, I thought you didn't care? You didn't after we beat Cardiff.
-
Why would we need to keep a clean sheet when away goals don't count double in the play-offs?
Sorry talking out my arse but point still stands. Nervous villa park, they score, we have to attack...
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
Just making the point. If you're one of the more notable bottlers in the league then a high pressure 2nd leg at home may not be ideal. It may have escaped your notice but since we more or less blew automatic promotion, form has considerably improved. I'm not saying its a disadvantage particularly either, just not sure it matters.
Besides, I thought you didn't care? You didn't after we beat Cardiff.
I said it didn't matter. It still doesn't
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
Just making the point. If you're one of the more notable bottlers in the league then a high pressure 2nd leg at home may not be ideal. It may have escaped your notice but since we more or less blew automatic promotion, form has considerably improved. I'm not saying its a disadvantage particularly either, just not sure it matters.
Besides, I thought you didn't care? You didn't after we beat Cardiff.
I said it didn't matter. It still doesn't
No, it really doesn't sound like it doesn't to you.
-
Why would we need to keep a clean sheet when away goals don't count double in the play-offs?
Sorry talking out my arse but point still stands. Nervous villa park, they score, we have to attack...
Everything after the first 5 words was superfluous.*
*Sorry but was such an open goal even Hogan would have buried it!
-
Still struggling to see how being at home for the 2nd leg gives us much advantage. Personally if you look at the games we've bottled at home like QPR and Preston when we're expected to win with the resultant pressure, that's when the wheels come off while teams like wolves and cardiff at home where we basically had a free hit at them and pressure off, we played well. Getting 0-0 away in the first leg for example with us needing to keep a clean sheet at an expectant VP, well doesn't seem like like much of a psychological advantage to me.
Have you thought about changing your name to miserbalebeggar? It might help.
Just making the point. If you're one of the more notable bottlers in the league then a high pressure 2nd leg at home may not be ideal. It may have escaped your notice but since we more or less blew automatic promotion, form has considerably improved. I'm not saying its a disadvantage particularly either, just not sure it matters.
Besides, I thought you didn't care? You didn't after we beat Cardiff.
I said it didn't matter. It still doesn't
No, it really doesn't sound like it doesn't to you.
In english?
-
Apologies miserablebeggar, your posts have dragged me down to your unintelligible level.
-
More fool the 30,000 there last night eh?
-
wonderful clappy. (see what i did there). Think we'll leave it there...
-
wonderful clappy. (see what i did there). Think we'll leave it there...
I think we should. It's for the best.
-
More fool the 30,000 there last night eh?
Too right, I'm some fucking mug dropping 400 quid to be there. Should've stayed at home and criticised the attendance instead.
-
Cardiff back up to second, with a game in hand over Fulham.
I know it’s a lottery in the play offs, but I’d still rather not need to play Fulham.
-
Cardiff back up to second, with a game in hand over Fulham.
I know it’s a lottery in the play offs, but I’d still rather not need to play Fulham.
Agreed.
-
Fulham play at Millwall on Friday night, honestly think they could lose that. Cardiff don't play until 7.45 on the Saturday night. We could be 3rd and 1 point behind them by the time they kick off. Just saying...
-
Still don't think it matters who we play. After all, we've beaten everyone we're likely to play currently except miilwall
-
And they'd still have two games in hand.
-
And they'd still have two games in hand.
I know, it was half tongue in cheek. One of their games in hand is Derby who couldn't beat an egg.
-
Still don't get the obsession with wanting to avoid Fulham, Warnock is still the one to avoid.
-
We don't need to avoid anyone - We are Aston Villa Football Club for fucks sake - bring it on Cardiff,Fulham, Boro, Millwall,Brenford or Derby
-
We don't need to avoid anyone - We are Aston Villa Football Club for fucks sake - bring it on Cardiff,Fulham, Boro, Millwall,Brenford or Derby
I admire that and want to agree, however we made hard work of a bad Leeds side missing 8 players yesterday...
-
We don't need to avoid anyone - We are Aston Villa Football Club for fucks sake - bring it on Cardiff,Fulham, Boro, Millwall,Brenford or Derby
I admire that and want to agree, however we made hard work of a bad Leeds side missing 8 players yesterday...
First half we should've put the game to bed. Second half I think tiredness crept in from the huge effort in beating Cardiff and playing with only two clear days in between. Don't forget a lot of players out injured as well.
-
That's the thing though. Apart from Wolves every team in this league is appallingly average. As they stand anyone who finishes 2nd or wins the play-offs looks odds on to come straight down. If we were likely to meet a quality team at some point in the play-offs then you'd probably want to miss them till the finals. Way it is you can't really fear anyone and no-ones gonna be that worried about us unfortunately.
-
Fulham play at Millwall on Friday night, honestly think they could lose that. Cardiff don't play until 7.45 on the Saturday night. We could be 3rd and 1 point behind them by the time they kick off. Just saying...
It's not over. Despite all our best efforts of late to royally screw ourselves, we are still not out of it. I'll be disappointed if we don't give it everything we can until we mathematically are.
-
The fat lady is on to her next number
-
let's hope she's not singing the blues come the end of May
-
If Cardiff win two if their remaining four games, or win one and draw the other three, we can't catch them. Bearing mind they have home games against Forest and the spectacularly awful Reading left, I think it's over. Their late winners yesterday did for us.
-
Yep, it’s Cardiff’s to lose in my opinion barring a Devon Loch style collapse. All we can do is win our games and see what happens.
-
I think Fulham are a better side than Cardiff. They will be tough opponents if we meet in a play off final. That said, if Brentford weren't so all fart and no shit yesterday, the way they played, closing down really quickly, Fulham were vulnerable. In a one off game at Wembley, they are beatable.
-
Yep, it’s Cardiff’s to lose in my opinion barring a Devon Loch style collapse. All we can do is win our games and see what happens.
I can't see Cardiff losing to Reading or Forest at home unfortunately but you never know. Like you said, all we can do is win our games and see what happens.
-
I think Fulham are a better side than Cardiff. They will be tough opponents if we meet in a play off final. That said, if Brentford weren't so all fart and no shit yesterday, the way they played, closing down really quickly, Fulham were vulnerable. In a one off game at Wembley, they are beatable.
I went to Fulham away. They were much better than us.
But I did get the impression that a youthful pressing side could have caused them problems
More Onomah than hourihane for me, in a game like that.
-
I think Fulham are a better side than Cardiff. They will be tough opponents if we meet in a play off final. That said, if Brentford weren't so all fart and no shit yesterday, the way they played, closing down really quickly, Fulham were vulnerable. In a one off game at Wembley, they are beatable.
I went to Fulham away. They were much better than us.
But I did get the impression that a youthful pressing side could have caused them problems
More Onomah than hourihane for me, in a game like that.
Onomah certainly did enough on Friday to keep his place. It will be one of many difficult selection headaches Bruce has over the next few weeks in the lead up to the play offs. I'm guessing the U23s will feature heavily at Millwall but the Ipswich and Derby games will be interesting to see who he picks.
-
There was a Birmingham Mail poll to rank our players this season
Onomah came out below virtually everyone, including Lansbury, Bree, samba, taylor
I lost a little faith in my fellow man
-
I went to Fulham away. They were much better than us.
But I did get the impression that a youthful pressing side could have caused them problems
More Onomah than hourihane for me, in a game like that.
Grealish Adomah and Kodja also missed that game
-
he hardly pulled up trees against Leeds reserves! If he's a PL quality player, then I'm a Dutchman's uncle
-
Who Kodjia? The man making his first start since October? Having played less than 90 minutes? Who scored 20 odd for us last season?
Or you on about somebody else?
-
Assume he means Onomah.
I thought he had a decent game, although agree that I don’t think he’s a Premier League quality player.
-
Assume he means Onomah.
I thought he had a decent game, although agree that I don’t think he’s a Premier League quality player.
I may be being unfair to him but he just seems to have an air about him that he does not really want to be here.
-
I thought he played well on Friday, closing down and winning tackles, probably helps when he's played in his natural position and not at no.10.
-
Oooooooh fair enough.
Felt he played alright to be honest. Better than he had, although he was central rather than our wide or in behind he front man.
-
Assume he means Onomah.
I thought he had a decent game, although agree that I don’t think he’s a Premier League quality player.
I may be being unfair to him but he just seems to have an air about him that he does not really want to be here.
He looks like the young player he is, when he’s on it very effective but seems to drift out of games with a slightly nonchalant air. He’ll learn.
-
Assume he means Onomah.
I thought he had a decent game, although agree that I don’t think he’s a Premier League quality player.
I may be being unfair to him but he just seems to have an air about him that he does not really want to be here.
He looks like the young player he is, when he’s on it very effective but seems to drift out of games with a slightly nonchalant air. He’ll learn.
I think (would hope) that the realisation that he can't get into a championship side has brought him back down to earth a bit.
I saw some qualities in his game on Friday night that gave me hope for his future. Up until that point, I couldn't see him ever being a PL player. Time is still on his side and if he can improve his awareness and distribution, he has every chance of playing regularly in the PL.
-
I think Fulham are a better side than Cardiff. They will be tough opponents if we meet in a play off final. That said, if Brentford weren't so all fart and no shit yesterday, the way they played, closing down really quickly, Fulham were vulnerable. In a one off game at Wembley, they are beatable.
I went to Fulham away. They were much better than us.
But I did get the impression that a youthful pressing side could have caused them problems
More Onomah than hourihane for me, in a game like that.
Onomah certainly did enough on Friday to keep his place. It will be one of many difficult selection headaches Bruce has over the next few weeks in the lead up to the play offs. I'm guessing the U23s will feature heavily at Millwall but the Ipswich and Derby games will be interesting to see who he picks.
I thought he had a good game on Friday and certainly added a bit more energy into midfield. I also thought Whelan did well and the pair of them looked far more comfortable in roles that suit them. I quite liked the balance of the midfield on Friday and would go with that again, with Hourihane coming on in the latter stages.
-
to clarify of course I was referring to Onomah not Kodjia.
-
Onomah played better than he had but he was still just average in a second division match. I don't see him as good enough for a promotion chasing team, let alone in the Premier League.
-
He has technical smarts, you can see that with how he's good at keeping the ball when in tight areas.
-
Hopefully, we get to the at off final. He'll get to at at home! It's about as close as he's going to get to the Spurs team unless he shows some bovveredness.
-
Last call on the automatic spots.
Win all 3 remaining games and we finish with 88 points.
Say Fulham lose at Millwall on Friday, best they can do is 88 points, although they have 4 better goal difference atm.
Cardiff only need 6 points from 4 games to beat both, and they have 2 better goal difference atm.
It's Cardiffs game to lose.
-
I fancy Forest to beat them. Problem is they play Derby.
-
I fancy Forest to beat them. Problem is they play Derby.
Yep been like a morgue in the office up here in derby this week, they’re all convinced it’s yet another bottle job.
-
They've been cack for seemingly months and yet are still in with a shout. Let's destroy them at VP next week. Please?
-
I wonder if we should lose to derby to try and get them in the play offs at the expense of Millwall or boro!
-
I wonder if we should lose to derby to try and get them in the play offs at the expense of Millwall or boro!
I hope not as they are the only team below us who can still mathematically finish above us
-
I reckon we'll be guaranteed at least 4th come 5pm on Saturday.
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
-
I wonder if we should lose to derby to try and get them in the play offs at the expense of Millwall or boro!
I hope not as they are the only team below us who can still mathematically finish above us
There’s now way they’re winning all four games
-
I wonder if we should lose to derby to try and get them in the play offs at the expense of Millwall or boro!
You mean groom our own play off opponents? It's a novel concept.
-
I reckon we'll be guaranteed at least 4th come 5pm on Saturday.
We are in trouble now. Prepare for 5th folks.
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
-
giving the team unequivocal support would be a massive help - too much negativity here
-
giving the team unequivocal support would be a massive help - too much negativity here
When I get inside the ground for the play off Home leg and hopefully the final I will roar the lads on as usual. I’m very likely to voice my worries on here though. These worries are based on what I’ve seen this season. I’m not that positive about the outcome but here’s hoping.
-
giving the team unequivocal support would be a massive help - too much negativity here
When I get inside the ground for the play off Home leg and hopefully the final I will roar the lads on as usual. I’m very likely to voice my worries on here though. These worries are based on what I’ve seen this season. I’m not that positive about the outcome but here’s hoping.
Same here, i hope that my trepidation is unfounded.
-
I wonder if we should lose to derby to try and get them in the play offs at the expense of Millwall or boro!
I wonder if we might have gone about 10 miles past the point where we start overthinking this?
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
Why is it your job to dampen down expectations?
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
Why is it your job to dampen down expectations?
Sorry I am mean my own expectations.
What are yours Chris?
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
Really? If there is one manager out of the play-off contenders I would think would get it right is Bruce.
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
Really? If there is one manager out of the play-off contenders I would think would get it right is Bruce.
On paper you're right, but based purely on his time as Villa manager I don't trust him in games where the pressure is really on, he draws into his shell and we look slow and disinterested. It's happened a few times now. On the basis of how we've played I won't be confident if we go behind at any point and I won't be confident in the final if we're not leading by halftime. I'll have hope and I'll desperately want to have my concerns well and truly put to rest but I just can't expect it.
-
i cant make up my mind if it will be "thats the play offs for yer" or " am bitterly dissapointed to lose a Final"
How about 'Yeah! We're going up! Wahey!'
Trying to dampen down expectations, I just dont trust the bloke to make the right decisions at the right time.
Really? If there is one manager out of the play-off contenders I would think would get it right is Bruce.
Based on his record at previous clubs, most certainly. Based on the last 18 or so months at Villa Park, probably not.
-
On paper you're right, but based purely on his time as Villa manager I don't trust him in games where the pressure is really on, he draws into his shell and we look slow and disinterested. It's happened a few times now. On the basis of how we've played I won't be confident if we go behind at any point and I won't be confident in the final if we're not leading by halftime. I'll have hope and I'll desperately want to have my concerns well and truly put to rest but I just can't expect it.
[/quote]
And yet under Bruce we have got the most points in a season since 3 points were introduced, even beating Sir Grahams total when he got us promoted. First time 7 league wins on a trot since 1993 and the most homes wins in a season since the 80's. After the last 4 seasons of record breaking lows I find it laughable that many still don't accept him as good enough to be our manager.
-
Sir Graham got us promoted without the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship.
I am more confident of the team raising their game on the big occasions, at least at Villa Park, you just have to look at the Rags and Wolves games for evidence. Away from home is another matter. Right now it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Frankly, we don't know which Villa team will turn up and that's because under Bruce we've been massively inconsistent, something I don't find very 'laughable'.
-
And yet under Bruce we have got the most points in a season since 3 points were introduced, even beating Sir Grahams total when he got us promoted. First time 7 league wins on a trot since 1993 and the most homes wins in a season since the 80's. After the last 4 seasons of record breaking lows I find it laughable that many still don't accept him as good enough to be our manager.
It's only the 2nd time we'll have played 46 league games in that time and the record was broken with a win in the 43rd game (42 a season being the most we'd played before last year). It's also only the second season in nearly 30 years outside the top flight, reeling off stats about numbers of wins but ignoring that fact is just odd. We're Aston Villa, we're one of the biggest clubs in the country and any season where we're not in the top-flight we are, pretty much, automatically the biggest club in the league we're in, we should be breaking records in this league, this is what I mean when, in the past, I've talked about how we should be playing like a team that knows our stay is temporarily. It's not arrogance, it's knowing that clubs like Brentford, Barnesley, Cardiff, etc are at such a ridiculous disadvantage to us that if we play like the club we are then they have very little chance of competing with us.
Back to Bruce, his only job was promotion and he might still do it, but I'm personally not totally confident because when we got ourselves right in the mix for an automatic spot a month or 2 back we imploded despite the fact that we had a promotion expert in charge. Now we're supposed to forget that and trust our newly titled playoff expert to get us through, I hope he does but I don't trust him not to fuck it up again.
-
Sir Graham got us promoted without the most expensive assembled squad in the history of the Championship.
I know people love that stat, but it needs to be looked at in the context of where we started.
Most successful squads are built over a period of time so it follows that with a core of a team in place 2 or 3 signing can make a huge difference - as was the case with Wolves. In our case the relegated squad was largely dysfunctional and needed complete rebuilding. How many of that team have made a regular contribution over the last two seasons? Hutton and Grealish ...?
So the most expensive squad ever assembled in the Championship was infact a complete rebuild as opposed adding a bit of quality here and there which is what most teams do.
I haven't done any maths on transfers but presume the likes of McCormack is included in these stats who Bruce didn't buy and has made no contribution? Add to that Kodjia has been injured pretty much all season all season so Bruce has achieved what he has without those two. Should that be taken into account in the stats?
Do the stats take account of money brought in, or is that ignored?
I still think Bruce should have done better than he has, but the most expensive squad ever assembled in the Championship label is really just something to beat him up with by people who refuse to look at the wider picture.
-
Just 6 games to go win them all, and were in the promised land, Then over to you Doctor.
Bruce might walk at the end of the season any way
-
That's true for all stats in truth Chris, you don't use stats on a discussion forum that don't reinforce the point that you're making.
However how many other managers in this league would have been able to send McCormack out on loan 4 months after he arrived and spend the same amount again on Hogan? How many would've been given the freedom with the wage bill to bring in Terry and snodgrass in the summer and then Grabban because their £12m signing (to replace another £12m signing) wasn't good enough? Don't get caught up on details of the claim, just understand that what it really means is that he's had a huge amount of backing to do whatever he wanted to with this squad, very few managers get that so it's only fair to expect him to meet his targets.
-
Bruce might walk at the end of the season any way
I can see that. On a personal level, he's had a terrible year and may want to take a much deserved break.
-
I don’t think he will. He knows it’s the biggest job he’ll ever get and I’m sure in his own mind he will be convinced he is doing a decent job. Indeed I suspect outside of internet fan forums most people will share that view.
-
Xia expects results. Non-promotion is unlikely to cut it.
-
Play-offs it is then......
-
Play-offs it is then......
It's been that way since the night of the QPR game.
Don't know really whether to admire or pity the people who keep bumping this thread after every 3 points in the hope Cardiff and Fulham would totally collapse in the run in but it was always a long shot and so now we're just playing out the games as we know we're going to be fourth.
-
Play-offs it is then......
Depends on tomorrow really. Win and we could still be in the picture until Tuesday.
-
Play-offs it is then......
It has been for weeks
-
Not completely, had we beaten Norwich we'd have been in with half a shout.
-
Just 6 games to go win them all, and were in the promised land.
Took me a sec. (http://i66.tinypic.com/2akh2kk.gif)
-
Play-offs it is then......
Depends on tomorrow really. Win and we could still be in the picture until Tuesday.
Wow!
-
Sadly 2nd place has definitely gone now, but I strongly fancy us to win the play-offs. Key players will be back from injury, some well rested, and several hitting top form at just the right time. 26th May is the most important day in our history and will always remain so. Stay positive guys !
-
Sadly 2nd place has definitely gone now, but I strongly fancy us to win the play-offs. Key players will be back from injury, some well rested, and several hitting top form at just the right time. 26th May is the most important day in our history and will always remain so. Stay positive guys !
The date of this year's playoff final is a sign!
-
Looking very much like it's going to be Boro in the two legged play off.
-
Cardiff are going up automatically imo. Fulham had a pretty shit start and like us it’s cost them
-
Cardiff are shite but are somehow winning again.
-
Cardiff have the best defence in the league so have to give them credit for that. I also heard on commentary that warnock took over when they were in relegation zone so he's done a job better than Bruce at this moment.
Have to respect that and also be very frustrated that could have been villa in promo picture.
I feel if Agnew made some difference coming in and helping with coaching yet there were games where weren't at the levels in winning some matches had expected too.
I just hope they get it all together for the play offs.
In spite of least fancying to play Fulham I am aware they lost in play off semis last season to Reading.
Grabban was involved in that for reading both legs.
Drew the first leg 1-1 home against 10 men and lost 1-0 away second leg.
So you can say they have form in not making it.
Sheffield wed were the same in recent seasons..
-
Don't look back in anger.........but I can't help but think of the poor results we've had since the Wolves win .......if only eh?
Cardiff and Fulham have in the main beaten those sides we have recently lost to ....so frustrating
But I'll settle for the following results over the next 4 weeks - LLDWW
-
I reckon Brentford could get the other playoff spot. It could be a Villa v Brentford final as Brentford have taken 4 points off Fulham this season.
-
Borough play Millwall next. If Millwall lose that makes us vs Boro very likely and could let Brentford into 6th to trip up Fulham.
Oh and Cardiff will beat Derby in the 91st minute.
I still see us winning at Wembley and Terry lifting his 20th trophy and saying that's it, I'm done.
-
It's not over yet... the thread I mean
-
If Fulham win on Friday night they’ll be 6 points ahead. They’re playing Sunderland.
Assuming they do, it’s play offs
Of all the contenders I think id fancy derby in the semi finals
We could make that more likely by losing on Saturday. Though it would mean they’d done the double against us
-
Cardiff have the points advantage but probably hardest game, Hull away.
Fulham have Sunderland and the scum... Very likely to get 6 points.
We have 2 hardest games, have to win both and both teams above us need to choke.
I could see Fulham and us winning on the weekend, Cardiff drawing leaving Fulham on 88, Cardiff 87 and us on 85,still not confirmed and having to play first 11.
-
We'll still have a tiny chance of second going into the last day if we win on Saturday and Cardiff draw v Hull.
Pretty much nil though as no way are SHA getting anything off Fulham now they're safe.
Not sure whether to be pleased we've at least kept going and got some momentum going into the play offs or frustrated by all the non performances after the Wolves game.
Probably the latter.
-
If Fulham win on Friday night they’ll be 6 points ahead. They’re playing Sunderland.
Assuming they do, it’s play offs
Of all the contenders I think id fancy derby in the semi finals
We could make that more likely by losing on Saturday. Though it would mean they’d done the double against us
We've got zero chance of automatic as Fulham will hammer Sunderland. However, we need to just win both of our games and see who we end up with in the play offs. I can't see us winning at Millwall though as we'll be in play off mode and they'll probably need to win.
I think it will be Boro in the semis.
-
yes most likely boro, so as our badge used to say "Prepared"
-
So the predicament on Friday, do we want Fulham to win to increase their chances of 2nd and to hopefully avoid them in the play offs or do we want them to stumble and continue our very slim hopes of finishing 2nd?
-
Whilst still possible we have to dream of second.
Stranger things have happened !
-
So the predicament on Friday, do we want Fulham to win to increase their chances of 2nd and to hopefully avoid them in the play offs or do we want them to stumble and continue our very slim hopes of finishing 2nd?
Fulham winning dosen't really matter as Cardiff could just win at Hull and finish us off for our very slim hopes.
Said all along I'd rather play Cardiff at some stage in the play offs so two Fulham wins would be fine by me as Cardiff would have to match that and they'll be more doubts creeping in after tonight.
-
Carlsberg don't do automatic promotions but if they did...
Cardiff draw both games and finish on 88 points.
We win both games and finish on 88 points and a better goal difference.
Fulham draw v Sunderland and are leading 1-0 at The Sty on the last day, they're on 89 points and going up. Up pops Craig Gardner in the 93rd minute to equalise. Fulham drop to 87 points. We're up and Gardner comes out after the game saying he's buzzing his tits off as he's been a Villa fan all his life after all. Small Heath add it to their history in their club diary, "helped the Vile get promoted 17/18".
-
Believe.....
-
Our maximum points haul is 88
Cardiff better that with one win
Fulham equal it with one win and have +3 goal difference compared to us. If they somehow fail to beat Sunderland on Friday I won’t be able to help holding out hope. But I’m prettt much hoping they overtake Cardiff
Still think the best play off outcome is for us to lose to derby on Saturday so we can draw them. Think boro are a greater threat. And if we beat derby we open the door to Millwall or Brentford
-
Boro will win their last two games looking at who they've got.
We're getting them.
-
We'll still have a tiny chance of second going into the last day if we win on Saturday and Cardiff draw v Hull.
Pretty much nil though as no way are SHA getting anything off Fulham now they're safe.
Not sure whether to be pleased we've at least kept going and got some momentum going into the play offs or frustrated by all the non performances after the Wolves game.
Probably the latter.
you’d like to think, as pros, blues players would try and get a result against Fulham. Fkrs will no doubt fold though, unless Fulham massively bottle it. TBH when I was saying we still had a chance of second a week or so ago, I hadn’t realised Fulham’s last game was against blose. Noses will celebrate a loss more than them winning if it means we miss out in 2nd- guaranteed.
-
I don't think Cardiff will win either of their next two games. Teams have now wised up to their bully boy tactics. Fulham may also struggle to beat Sunderland. Therefore, if we beat Derby, as I expect us to to, this will set up a fantastic last day. SHA may still have a part to play in helping their illustrious neighbours to the promised land. Believe.....
-
Cardiff will beat Reading even if blindfolded.
Hull away will be tricker, Hull have scored a fair few goals in last two months and also comfortably held us to a 0-0.
-
Cardiff will get 4 points. Wouldn't surprise me if Fulham got 6.
Millwall at Boro so that's realistically their last roll of the dice for 6th.
-
5 games to go and I want us to beat Derby draw at Millwall not lose the first leg and win the next two.
-
It doesn't matter. We need to try and win well in both our remaining games and whatever will be, will be. We're good enough to beat anyone in the play-offs if that's the route we have to take.
-
Exactly. Beat Derby & Millwall and see what's what after then. Imagine taking our foot off and seeing the others fail....
-
It doesn't matter. We need to try and win well in both our remaining games and whatever will be, will be. We're good enough to beat anyone in the play-offs if that's the route we have to take.
Yep, still might be some twists and turns yet. We should know by the end of the Fulham game on Friday if we still have any chance of automatic so we will see. If I was to put any money on what the end of season table will look like though, I would put it on us playing Middlesbrough in the play offs which will be a tough assignment.
-
You know what, for the first time in ages we have something to look forward to at the end of a season. Just be thankful for that and enjoy.
-
Good point Passport, at least half of weberlee will be claret and Blue , just got to deal with boro.
-
win the next five matches and we are there!
simple this footballing malarkey
-
win the next five matches and we are there!
simple this footballing malarkey
We only actually need to win 2 of them, and even then that could be on penalties.
-
I can handle the despair, it’s the hope that kills you.
-
The 3rd-placed team has only won the play-offs 9 times from 24 seasons, but that's still better than 4th (4 times), 5th (6 times) and 6th (5 times).
The team finishing 3rd may fail to go up roughly two times out of three, but they still succeed at least 50% more often than any other position.
-
I think Cardiff would be more disappointed to finish in the play offs than Fulham, as they have spent more time in 2nd place believing they will get automatic promotion.
Therefore, if they end up in the play offs they will bomb out in the semis. Hoping Fulham do the same though if they end up there.
Happy to play anyone in the play offs. Let's be honest we spent 1 week in second all season, play offs is our level.
-
TBH, we battered the best team in the division 4-1 so we shouldn't fear anyone. Indeed, our biggest enemies seem to be ourselves as we seem to have a horrible performance in us every so often, which in the Play Offs could prove very costly.
-
Fulham nearly shit the bed with nerves last night.
Play these at Wembley and we will do them.
-
Yeah they were lucky
I was also heartened to see their record in play off games. 6 matches and no wins
But I think Cardiff will do brilliantly to win at hull, who are banging in the goals of late
-
I thought Mijtrovic was a bit of a showroom dummy at Noocassil but in fairness he's been the difference for them since he joined. A goal a game and most of them winners.
-
Half minded to close the thread now.
-
Time for the lock
-
If we lose at Millwall we'll finish 4th on 83 points. Same as Hull did under Bruce in 2016. They won the play-offs, beating Derby in the SF.
-
As we have a semi rest day on Sunday now, we could always rename this thread "The much awaited return of Relegation Maths".
-
So it's official now. No automatic promotion. Bruce out!
-
So both ourselves and Millwall can take it easy next weekend. No need to get an injury and please rest the main players (whoops I know where not allowed to do that) I meant protect the injured/sick.
-
Huddersfield did it last season and helped the noses beat the drop.
-
They’ve toughened the rules now. But there still seems scope for rotation
Under no circumstances should grealish be in the team next Sunday
-
Well if there was ever a better example of "I told you so" I can't remember it.
If Cardiff win their final match and finish on 92 points (average 2 points a game) they will be promoted. Fulham could finish on 91 and fall short. In 25 years of 24 team Championship this rule has never been broken. Even if we win against Millwall we ended up 6 points short.
I would argue that the most criminal dip in form was the 1 point in 3 games against QPR, Hull and Bolton in March was the difference. We choked it. Can't repeat that now.
-
Add in the Norwich game and that was one point from three consecutive away games. A couple of slip-ups too many.
-
Finishing 4th is a big disappointment for me. It's the fact that we're not one of the best 3 clubs in the championship. Luckily the 4th best club can still get promoted. That would cheer me up no end.
-
Finishing 4th is a big disappointment for me. It's the fact that we're not one of the best 3 clubs in the championship. Luckily the 4th best club can still get promoted. That would cheer me up no end.
Although we are where we are on merit and don't deserve to be any higher, in hindsight, losing Jack and Kodjia at the start of the season left us playing catch up. 1 win out of the first 7 has ultimately killed us and the December run can also be attributed in part to those 2 players being missing. Yes, we have a strong squad but to lose your playmaker and top striker is not something that you can resolve on a like for like basis.
I'd hate to finish 3rd. Both Fulham & Cardiff have been fantastic and both deserve 2nd spot. Whoever finishes 3rd will be unbelievably disappointed and also be quite a distance ahead of us in 4th spot. I'm happy we have a bite at the play offs (as I'm sure 5th & 6th will be)
-
Keep this thread open. If Fulham and Cardiff both turn out to have fielded ineligible players or to have breached FFP and get docked points, or one of them goes out of business before next weekend, then we can still catch them. Keep the faith!!
-
Finishing 4th is a big disappointment for me. It's the fact that we're not one of the best 3 clubs in the championship. Luckily the 4th best club can still get promoted. That would cheer me up no end.
Although we are where we are on merit and don't deserve to be any higher, in hindsight, losing Jack and Kodjia at the start of the season left us playing catch up. 1 win out of the first 7 has ultimately killed us and the December run can also be attributed in part to those 2 players being missing. Yes, we have a strong squad but to lose your playmaker and top striker is not something that you can resolve on a like for like basis.
I'd hate to finish 3rd. Both Fulham & Cardiff have been fantastic and both deserve 2nd spot. Whoever finishes 3rd will be unbelievably disappointed and also be quite a distance ahead of us in 4th spot. I'm happy we have a bite at the play offs (as I'm sure 5th & 6th will be)
I think Jack and Kodjia being out might have had some impact but the bigger problem is that we didn't seem to have a plan for how we wanted to play and that spilled over into us having no plan of the players we needed so all our signings were about having the right experience and attitude. The issue was that it left with lots of players with no obvious way to use and we spent a few months stumbling onto things that worked by chance rather than through any design. That's why a player like Jack, who lifts the players around him, came in and had a huge impact (once he was fully fit) because he started to dictate the style of play.
-
Having no back up striker (other than Samba) wasn't great either, particularly when you see the impact of Grabban from January.
-
Having no back up striker (other than Samba) wasn't great either, particularly when you see the impact of Grabban from January.
Yep, imagine how different things could have been with a striker instead of Onomah on loan. I think he decided that waiting for Kodjia to get fit would be fine but that left him massively short of numbers up front whilst we were overloaded with midfielders. Grabban is exactly the type of striker we should have been looking at, someone who could play on his own up top but would also be comfortable drifting into and 'inside forward' type role. Maybe he wanted Green to be that player but putting our attack on the backs of a guy with a serious injury, a kid and a striker who could barely score goals for us seems strange, as does leaving himself with so little cover at centre back).
-
Buying a flop like Hogan was the big problem.
-
Mcgatecormack ??
-
Mcgatecormack ??
He was never going to be involved and seemed certain to go out on loan, which is why a loan in to replace him should've been a priority, we got one eventually but by the time Grabban came in it always felt there was too much to do unless we could go on a unbelievable run, like Fulham have.
-
Not correct he was involved in preseason in Algarve and according to Wyness last July
"The olive branch is out and I know that he is working very hard in pre-season," said Wyness.
"It’s only a few days ago that I went down and he’s working hard."
-
Not correct he was involved in preseason in Algarve and according to Wyness last July
"The olive branch is out and I know that he is working very hard in pre-season," said Wyness.
"It’s only a few days ago that I went down and he’s working hard."
Yep, and then we ignored him for 2 months (other than a couple of cameos in the league cup). Bruce wasn't going to pick him.
-
You're missing the point. There was clearly a plan to reintegrate him and it explains why they held fire on signing a striker. You know running a football club isn't as simplistic as supporters think.
-
Mcgatecormack ??
unless we could go on a unbelievable run, like Fulham have.
I'm amazed we didn't, having such a strong squad and such a promotion expert in charge.
-
Mcgatecormack ??
unless we could go on a unbelievable run, like Fulham have.
I'm amazed we didn't, having such a strong squad and such a promotion expert in charge.
A stroke of genius winning once in the first 7 games.
-
You're missing the point. There was clearly a plan to reintegrate him and it explains why they held fire on signing a striker. You know running a football club isn't as simplistic as supporters think.
I'm not missing anything, we involved him in pre-season and said that we were trying to bring him back in but there was never a realistic chance of it happening. aside from anything else I don't think Bruce had any idea how to use him, lets not forget that he'd started less than half the games since Bruce arrived when the gate stuff came out.
I'm amazed we didn't, having such a strong squad and such a promotion expert in charge.
Plenty of people on here were still expecting exactly that around Christmas, with a fair few posts about how we'd played most of the top sides away and would be right back in the mix when we beat them all at home and had the easier away games to come. I posted at the time that I wasn't convinced because our home form wasn't as good as it should have been given who we'd played. In the end our home form has been decent but we've lost too many away games.
-
When you have a player who wasn't even turning up for training, I'm not sure how else it could have been handled.
-
When you have a player who wasn't even turning up for training, I'm not sure how else it could have been handled.
and I never commented on that at all, as i said, he was a bits and pieces player before the problems anyway, after he'd pushed Bruce into a public slating of his attitude he was never going to come back as a regular unless Bruce left because as wel las not knowing where to play him he also didn't trust him and Bruce picks teams largely on attitude and trust.
-
When you have a player who wasn't even turning up for training, I'm not sure how else it could have been handled.
and I never commented on that at all, as i said, he was a bits and pieces player before the problems anyway, after he'd pushed Bruce into a public slating of his attitude he was never going to come back as a regular unless Bruce left because as wel las not knowing where to play him he also didn't trust him and Bruce picks teams largely on attitude and trust.
I didn't say you commented on it. You just assumed that I did.
-
I probably wouldn't have given the bloat a holiday in Oz.
-
I probably wouldn't have given the bloat a holiday in Oz.
It’s a difficult one, we saw how Lamburks bomb squad worked out, you have Micah apparently being great around the training ground.
Once he was sent to Oz then his value went to zero-.
Bruce gave up on him but luckily he replaced him with Hogan ::)
-
I probably wouldn't have given the bloat a holiday in Oz.
It’s a difficult one, we saw how Lamburks bomb squad worked out, you have Micah apparently being great around the training ground.
Once he was sent to Oz then his value went to zero-.
Bruce gave up on him but luckily he replaced him with Hogan ::)
but never replaced Gestede and only replaced Ayew this January.
-
Every team in any division can analyse every game and come up with a "what if". We can ignore the start of the season the chance for automatic was lost after the Wolves game at home.
Next 5 games / 15 points were
QPR home
Bolton Away
Hull Away
Reading Home
Norwich Away
On the understanding we were then next at home to the team we were chasing, Cardiff , it makes it all the more frustrating that we took 4 points out of those 15 available. Blues took more in the same period. In was in our hands and we choked - simples
-
I love how Gestede and McCormack are being brought up. A sign of desperation when there's not too much else to moan about.
-
I love how Gestede and McCormack are being brought up. A sign of desperation when there's not too much else to moan about.
I'd say Dr Tony has plenty to moan about. I'd suggest your viewpoint is desperation. Clinging to a mini tournament victory.
It's embarrassing. Our best players seem to be players Bruce did not sign.
-
I can’t help wonder how the doc feels about the money that’s been squandered
-
Hookey - we did choke, I agree, but a big part of the problem was that our good runs were always to catch up rather than to build a gap, that's why our bad start and bad run in December are so important because we put ourselves in a situation where we need a miracle, and we weren't quite up to that (fair fucks to Fulham who could well manage it).
We had 38 points after 23 games which meant we were likely to need 52+ in the 2nd half of the season and we just didn't have the legs for it. If you do a custom table since Christmas day (https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/LeagueTable?comp_id=587&start_date=26-12-2017&end_date=12-05-2018&start_time=0&end_time=90) we've picked up 45 points and are 2nd (behind Fulham) ahead of Wolves on goal difference. That form over a season is clearly automatic promotion, but we left ourselves with too much to do and I think a big part of that was down to poor planning in the summer. If you watch the Cardiff and Reading games now we looked like we were still playing pre-season and they weren't.
-
It's not really the greatest planning to start a season where your striker options are Hogan, Gabby and Samba. It's hardly a gallery of goals and fitness. We did have about 38 right backs though.
-
Every team in any division can analyse every game and come up with a "what if". We can ignore the start of the season the chance for automatic was lost after the Wolves game at home.
Next 5 games / 15 points were
QPR home
Bolton Away
Hull Away
Reading Home
Norwich Away
On the understanding we were then next at home to the team we were chasing, Cardiff , it makes it all the more frustrating that we took 4 points out of those 15 available. Blues took more in the same period. In was in our hands and we choked - simples
This. Looking at the start of the season as the root of our problems is taking hindsight to the nth degree.
-
But it isn't as it wasn't really until the New Year we had striker options. By my reckoning on the last day of December our strikers had scored 4 goals, Gabby 1, Davies 2, Kod 1. And you can add another 1 for Samba if feeling generous. It's not much of a leap to think we could have picked up more points if we'd had better options during the first 25 games. Just an extra 6 points before the New Year and we'd be second on GD going into the last game.
-
I love how Gestede and McCormack are being brought up. A sign of desperation when there's not too much else to moan about.
I'd say Dr Tony has plenty to moan about. I'd suggest your viewpoint is desperation. Clinging to a mini tournament victory.
It's embarrassing. Our best players seem to be players Bruce did not sign.
I'm not clinging on to anything. I'd rather have gone straight up, sat back with a pint and watched the other four teams battle it out so i'm disappointed. I'm not disapointed enough to bring up the likes of Gestde and McCormack in an attempt to pick faults mind because there's no point. We didnt go up because we lost games at important times, not because we didn't replace Rudy Gestede.
-
The start to a season is important and our poor start is one of the reasons why we are not going up automatically. Without a good start any team interested in auto promotion is playing catch-up. Our run of 7 straight wins helped us to catch-up but we needed another similar run to cement second, but unfortunately we have too many blips in a season (August, December, end of March). If the start is not that important why did monopoly city in the premiersh-te have the title wrapped up pre-xmas? I also feel Bruce targeting 87 points (I believe) and not 92ish was a lowering of expectations that I feel we could have done without. It is what it is. Onto the playoffs we go! Let's hope we approach them with the kind of intensity displayed in the 2nd half Vs Derby. UTV!
-
I love how Gestede and McCormack are being brought up. A sign of desperation when there's not too much else to moan about.
I'd say Dr Tony has plenty to moan about. I'd suggest your viewpoint is desperation. Clinging to a mini tournament victory.
It's embarrassing. Our best players seem to be players Bruce did not sign.
I'm not clinging on to anything. I'd rather have gone straight up, sat back with a pint and watched the other four teams battle it out so i'm disappointed. I'm not disapointed enough to bring up the likes of Gestde and McCormack in an attempt to pick faults mind because there's no point. We didnt go up because we lost games at important times, not because we didn't replace Rudy Gestede.
“Replacing Rudy Gestede” made me a laugh. Did we not buy a new line marker???
-
But it isn't as it wasn't really until the New Year we had striker options. By my reckoning on the last day of December our strikers had scored 4 goals, Gabby 1, Davies 2, Kod 1. And you can add another 1 for Samba if feeling generous. It's not much of a leap to think we could have picked up more points if we'd had better options during the first 25 games. Just an extra 6 points before the New Year and we'd be second on GD going into the last game.
Yep.
-
Does anyone know whether this points target that Bruce is alleged to have set is genuine?
I can't believe that it is, because that would make him totally fucking stupid.
-
Why would a target be stupid?
-
Why would a target be stupid?
It would be stupid if it's set at a level that two teams have overtaken.
-
It can't be. Unless the plan was to win the opening 29 games, and then just give up in the remainder, how do you decide which ones? Would we have to inform the other clubs of our intentions? Is there a reciprocal agreement? Does that explain QPR?
I just don't see how it'd be workable.
-
Most managers break the season up into chunks and target points recoveries from that tranche of games.
-
But the suggestion seems to be that Bruce set an overall target of 87 and then if anyone else beats that then fair play to them. Well, the season's not over and three teams are there already, none of which is Aston Villa.
-
What has been the average point haul for second place over a 46 game season? That is a sensible starting point.
-
What has been the average point haul for second place over a 46 game season? That is a sensible starting point.
A starting point from which you'd add a hefty number of points just in case the season isn't average.
-
Or even the maximum needed for second place?
-
What has been the average point haul for second place over a 46 game season? That is a sensible starting point.
Fewest points needed for automatic promotion in championship:
07-08- 76 points (Stoke)
12-13- 78 points (Steve Bruce's Hull).
09-10- 80 points (West Brom)
10-11- 81 points (Southampton)
08-09- 81 points (SHA)
05-06 81 points (Sheffield United)
Boro went up with 89 points in 15/16 and 86 points would've been enough last year with Reading finishing third on 85 points.
Been a very rare year needing 90 + points for second.
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
I think the suggestion is that Bruce decided at the start of the season that 87 points would be enough for us to go up, so as long as we were on course for that then we'd be Ok in the end. I have an issue with this (if it's true) because three teams have reached beyond that total. We're still on course to hit it and we'll finish fourth.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
-
He's not stupid to set a target and aim for it. Not unless it was a ridiculously low target.
This season is a freak season.
However, it's all pretty irrelevant until May 26th isn't it?
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
I think the suggestion is that Bruce decided at the start of the season that 87 points would be enough for us to go up, so as long as we were on course for that then we'd be Ok in the end. I have an issue with this (if it's true) because three teams have reached beyond that total. We're still on course to hit it and we'll finish fourth.
If it's true, would you have had an issue with it had he set a target of 87 points and we finished second?
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
I think the suggestion is that Bruce decided at the start of the season that 87 points would be enough for us to go up, so as long as we were on course for that then we'd be Ok in the end. I have an issue with this (if it's true) because three teams have reached beyond that total. We're still on course to hit it and we'll finish fourth.
If it's true, would you have had an issue with it had he set a target of 87 points and we finished second?
Think about what you've just written.
-
I can't recall him ever mentioning a target of 87 points, is there a link to where he said it?
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
I think the suggestion is that Bruce decided at the start of the season that 87 points would be enough for us to go up, so as long as we were on course for that then we'd be Ok in the end. I have an issue with this (if it's true) because three teams have reached beyond that total. We're still on course to hit it and we'll finish fourth.
If it's true, would you have had an issue with it had he set a target of 87 points and we finished second?
Think about what you've just written.
No, you answer the question.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
One of his post-match interviews. He didn't say what the target was, but he said that he'd set a target and if we reach that, and other teams do even better, you shake them by the hand and say 'well done'.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
One of his post-match interviews. He didn't say what the target was, but he said that he'd set a target and if we reach that, and other teams do even better, you shake them by the hand and say 'well done'.
So you don't know what target he set but you're ridiculing it anyway?
-
So you don't know what the target is, if we've reached it or if anyone else has besides Wolves (as you'd have to assume they passed it)?
-
Sorry, but I can't grasp the mechanics of it. Are people suggesting that we've only won the games that we'd decided beforehand we were going to win, or one that we now had to win because we fucked up by not winning a previous one that we'd meant to, and that when we'd lost through being shit, we'd been shit on purpose because those points didn't matter?
I feel like I'm arguing with my nan about the wrestling on World Of Sport.
I think the suggestion is that Bruce decided at the start of the season that 87 points would be enough for us to go up, so as long as we were on course for that then we'd be Ok in the end. I have an issue with this (if it's true) because three teams have reached beyond that total. We're still on course to hit it and we'll finish fourth.
If it's true, would you have had an issue with it had he set a target of 87 points and we finished second?
Think about what you've just written.
No, you answer the question.
I would've been happy if we were on course to hit it, and there was no sign of THREE other teams who were doing better than us, who looked likely to do better than it.
-
So you don't know what the target is, if we've reached it or if anyone else has besides Wolves (as you'd have to assume they passed it)?
Somebody on here mentioned 87 points. I was hoping they could repeat it to give some context because (if it is true) I find it to be totally mental.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
One of his post-match interviews. He didn't say what the target was, but he said that he'd set a target and if we reach that, and other teams do even better, you shake them by the hand and say 'well done'.
Based on that it hardly seems a hard and fast rule that he's lived the entire season by. In fact it doesn't seem anything except yet another tedious stick to beat Steve Bruce with.
-
So they've guessed and none of us know if we or anyone has reached it but you're giving him stick for it? I'm not exactly known as a Bruce fan and even i think that's harsh on him.
-
I'm laughing at this. It's so utterly ridiculous.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
One of his post-match interviews. He didn't say what the target was, but he said that he'd set a target and if we reach that, and other teams do even better, you shake them by the hand and say 'well done'.
So you don't know what target he set but you're ridiculing it anyway?
Oh my fucking God, Clamply. I'm asking a question, that's all. I'm also moaning because it strikes me that, despite sounding totally mental, it's something that could be true. I'm just asking though.
I'm sure that if Steve Bruce ever needs an online minder somebody at Cambridge Analytica has got your details.
-
Where did this suggestion come from?
One of his post-match interviews. He didn't say what the target was, but he said that he'd set a target and if we reach that, and other teams do even better, you shake them by the hand and say 'well done'.
So you don't know what target he set but you're ridiculing it anyway?
Oh my fucking God, Clamply. I'm asking a question, that's all. I'm also moaning because it strikes me that, despite sounding totally mental, it's something that could be true. I'm just asking though.
I'm sure that if Steve Bruce ever needs an online minder somebody at Cambridge Analytica has got your details.
I'm not the only one calling you out on this by the way.
-
I reckon even John would think it's harsh on Bruce, that's how harsh it is.
-
I reckon even John would think it's harsh on Bruce, that's how harsh it is.
It's harsh if I've made it up (and I might have, but I don't think so). I was really just asking (and adding some personal spin in advance of the fact so my sincere apologies to SB for that). I'm sure I've seen this discussed beyond my own bitter prejudice, but I'll leave it there for now.
-
If we’re still in the Championship at 8 pm on 26th May let’s worry about it then.
-
He's mentioned targets but as far as I can tell the 87 points is just a random number picked. Personally, I'd have thought if anyone was to say the points they wanted to aim for automatic promotion would be more likely to be 90-92. If you hit 90 and don't finish top 2 then you would have to doff your cap to 2 other clubs.
-
I was just having a look back to see if anyone had ever failed to go up on 90 and this season is a bit of a freak, teams have won the league with less points than we have.
I went back as far as 2000. Since then no side has hit 90 and not finished top 2. And even if the target was 87 it's not a stupid one as only twice has a side reached 87 and not gone up automatically going back to 2000. Bolton with 87 and Brighton with 89.
-
Well i make the average for 2nd over 10 seasons as 86.9 so 87 points. To be honest though that's warped by a couple of really low 2nd placed points totals (you can guess who was in charge for one of them)
-
I'm sure he had an idea of the number of points that we'd need to go up automatically, but whatever it was, I'm fairly certain that we were nearly always behind the curve on it, so it's not like he'd have been saying "It's alright lads, don't worry about beating QPR or Bolton, we're on track for enough points as it is!"
The fact that we've been 3rd or 4th in the table probably indicated to Bruce that the target had to be whatever Cardiff or Fulham achieved, +1.
-
If the top four have won an aggregated bunch of points a lot more than the average does that mean elsewhere in the table teams are on lower points than average for their position? I imagine the gap between us and Boro in fifth for example isn't common?
-
Talking of points differences - found this posted elsewhere:
Evo-stik Southern League (24 teams - like the Championship)
Final table
1. Hereford 46 36 5 5 111:33 113
2. Kings Lynn 46 30 10 6 99:39 100
3. Slough 46 30 9 7 111:49 99
4. Kettering 46 30 7 9 122:56 97
5. Weymouth 46 30 7 9 103:48 97
and to answer your point about ultra low points totals elsewhere in the table:
20. Farnborough 46 15-6-25 82:120 51 pts
21. Kings Langley 46 8-14-24 63:98 38 pts
22. St. Ives Town 46 8-9-29 54:105 33 pts
23. Gosport Bor. 46 5-5-36 41:142 20 pts
24. Dunstable T. 46 4-5-37 27:137 17 pts
Apparently Dunstable did better than expected - as no employee of the club has been paid all season
-
Oh for fucks sake.
I started the thread, read my posts.
In 25 years of the 24 team league, 2 points a game, aka 92 points, will Always have got you promoted. Its as close to a statistical guarantee as you can get.
If I was Tony, I would be saying to Bruce, that's your target.
He's missed it by at least 6 points.
-
Like the PL, the Championship is changing and the teams at the top are starting to stretch the points total and that is due to the money in the game now. Money doesn't always buy success but it helps. I think looking back too far gives a false impression in a similar way to believing there is a formula to winning promotion. You need to change with the times to be successful, something we have failed to do over the years.
-
Like the PL, the Championship is changing and the teams at the top are starting to stretch the points total and that is due to the money in the game now. Money doesn't always buy success but it helps. I think looking back too far gives a false impression in a similar way to believing there is a formula to winning promotion. You need to change with the times to be successful, something we have failed to do over the years.
Good point. It’s like the England cricket team still thinking that 300 was a great score in an ODI whilst other teams were targeting 400. Luckily they’ve cottoned on now.
Times change. The bar has been raised.
-
I'm not sure that's true. Cardiff and Fulham haven't spent a fortune, the last 2 years it will be 1, maybe 2 clubs (if us or Boro win the play-offs) that were promoted with the benefit of parachute payments. The only difference this season to what's happened before is that a side could reach 90 points and not go up automatically. Everything else has happened before points wise.
-
Pre season preparation was the key to this season for me. We needed more competitive games. We were too far behind after 5 games.
-
Am I right in thinking its the top two that get promoted automatically and there's some sort of mini cup for the third place regardless of how many points you've got - a bit like the last few years?
-
Am I right in thinking its the top two that get promoted automatically and there's some sort of mini cup for the third place regardless of how many points you've got - a bit like the last few years?
Yes
In other news, keepers can no longer pick up back passes
-
Pre season preparation was the key to this season for me. We needed more competitive games. We were too far behind after 5 games.
Yes we weren't ready.
Starting 11 for the Hull game on the opening day makes my eyes bleed....it was a midfield of Elmohamady-Whelan-Lansbury-Bacuna!
Gabby upfront aswell.
-
That’s not the greatest of midfields...
-
Maybe not but it's the best game Elmohamady has had for us so far
-
Maybe not but it's the best game Elmohamady has had for us so far
In fairness we are in "highest mountain in the Netherlands" territory there.
-
So true
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
-
So true
Funny how it seems
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
My view of him has probably been tainted by the bloke who sits next to me on the Lower Holte, who loathes him with a rare passion.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
My view of him has probably been tainted by the bloke who sits next to me on the Lower Holte, who loathes him with a rare passion.
oops I sit in the lower Holte, and I have been known to vent my frustration at Elmo in fairness though my mates do try to point out the err good stuff he does, so if your in the lowerright side , my apologies.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
And me. I don't think he's good enough to be on the wing any more, but then we don't really need him to be. He's a better, more balanced right back than Hutton, although Hutton is better at left back anyway. He's worked really well with Snodgrass, and after a bit of a shaky start, has been pretty consistent.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
And me. I don't think he's good enough to be on the wing any more, but then we don't really need him to be. He's a better, more balanced right back than Hutton, although Hutton is better at left back anyway. He's worked really well with Snodgrass, and after a bit of a shaky start, has been pretty consistent.
I think that's about the most positive thing we've said about a full back in a long time.
Consistency in a positive way is what you want isn't it?
-
I think he's been very average, I don't think he's added a great deal but he's been a reasonably solid 6-7 out of 10 which is probably good enough for a full back in this league. I'd still have preferred it if we'd used the wages to get a decent left back but Hutton has done a good enough job there to make up for that.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
And me. I don't think he's good enough to be on the wing any more, but then we don't really need him to be. He's a better, more balanced right back than Hutton, although Hutton is better at left back anyway. He's worked really well with Snodgrass, and after a bit of a shaky start, has been pretty consistent.
Pretty accurate assessment
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
And me. I don't think he's good enough to be on the wing any more, but then we don't really need him to be. He's a better, more balanced right back than Hutton, although Hutton is better at left back anyway. He's worked really well with Snodgrass, and after a bit of a shaky start, has been pretty consistent.
I think that's about the most positive thing we've said about a full back in a long time.
Consistency in a positive way is what you want isn't it?
Yes, absolutely. And he's got 5 assists, which isn't too shabby.
-
He's like most of our squad, decent/good Championship players and good enough to get a team into the play offs. Would be embarrassed and shown up in the Premier League though.
-
I think it was a sensible move bringing him in. Bruce knew exactly the type of player and person he was getting and I can't think of too many games where he's let us down.
-
Round talked a really good game at the Trust AGM about how they go large on profiling character in scouting and recruitment now.
-
He's like most of our squad, decent/good Championship players and good enough to get a team into the play offs. Would be embarrassed and shown up in the Premier League though.
My view also.
-
Elmo's been really good for us all season in my view.
I think so too.
My view of him has probably been tainted by the bloke who sits next to me on the Lower Holte, who loathes him with a rare passion.
I've grown to like him but his crossing has gone to pot. Where once he could pinpoint a cross now he rarely beats the first man. Strange and frustrating.
-
Round talked a really good game at the Trust AGM about how they go large on profiling character in scouting and recruitment now.
And it shows.
-
Maybe not but it's the best game Elmohamady has had for us so far
Playing as a right winger though.....
I didn't want us to sign him but I think he's had a decent season. Whenever I go and watch us live, he's always solid enough defensively and gets forward and gets his crosses in even if they've been overhit of late. Always an outlet for Snodgrass anyway, at this level they're an excellent combination as they were for Hull of course.
-
Elmo and Snodgrass work well together. Against Derby they were very busy.
-
Round talked a really good game at the Trust AGM about how they go large on profiling character in scouting and recruitment now.
And it shows.
McCormack?!
-
Signed before Round joined.
-
We "now" evaluate the character of the players we buy? May I ask why, in the words of the Immortal Basil, the bindingly bleeding obvious has it taken 144 years?
-
I don't think it has Brian. It may be a recent philosophy for the club but I'm sure previous managers did their homework on a player's character before they brought them in.
-
I wish they'd evaluated footballing ability with a few of the signings.
-
I wish they'd evaluated footballing ability with a few of the signings.
There's a story about NRC that when O'Neill saw him in training for the first time, he was aghast that he lacked the fundamentals of controlling and passing.
Oh to rewind the clock with another manager.
-
I wish they'd evaluated footballing ability with a few of the signings.
The footballing ability almost seems secondary with some clubs/managers
Many years ago whilst coaching a junior side I took my team to the Liverpool Academy to play a Liverpool under 7`s side - whilst waiting for the game to start I watched a group of older boys walking out onto the pitch in line, wearing the charcoal grey away kit - they all had identical cropped haircuts and were all six footers - I turned to one of the LFC coaches and jokingly asked "is this the Hitler Youth squad ?"
He looked back at me without smiling - " No this is the under 13`s"
I honestly thought it was the LFC Youth team, they were that well built physically
Later I chatted with the coach and he explained that when looking for a young hopeful, physical attributes were pretty much top of the list
As my team of lads got older we had visits from scouts from various clubs coming to watch certain boys - without exception the parting shot from the scout was always - " great little player, but too small" - this played out from when the boys were 6- 11 years of age.
Good job Iniesta wasn't born in this country - he would have never stood a chance
-
Billy Bremner was told the same as a kid.
-
So in the end we were 7 points or 2 wins and a draw off automatic promotion.
That poor start to the season, a dodgy spell in December and then we'd got ourselves up there, we blinked first and had an awful March.
Frustrating that for the second season in a row, we couldn't storm out of the gates at the start, and have to be constantly catching up.
-
So in the end we were 7 points or 2 wins and a draw off automatic promotion.
That poor start to the season, a dodgy spell in December and then we'd got ourselves up there, we blinked first and had an awful March.
Frustrating that for the second season in a row, we couldn't storm out of the gates at the start, and have to be constantly catching up.
In other words, not good enough.
-
So in the end we were 7 points or 2 wins and a draw off automatic promotion.
That poor start to the season, a dodgy spell in December and then we'd got ourselves up there, we blinked first and had an awful March.
Frustrating that for the second season in a row, we couldn't storm out of the gates at the start, and have to be constantly catching up.
We finished where we deserved to finish. We picked up points when we didn't deserve to and dropped points when we didn't deserve to. We performed very well in some games but there were far too many when we struggled. Over a 46 game season the table doesn't usually lie.
-
What's done is done. Only one focus now and that's getting to Wembley.
-
So in the end we were 7 points or 2 wins and a draw off automatic promotion.
That poor start to the season, a dodgy spell in December and then we'd got ourselves up there, we blinked first and had an awful March.
Frustrating that for the second season in a row, we couldn't storm out of the gates at the start, and have to be constantly catching up.
It turns out that those points dropped early in the season are just as valuable as those dropped at the end. Who knew?
-
Slow start cost us.
-
So in the end we were 7 points or 2 wins and a draw off automatic promotion.
That poor start to the season, a dodgy spell in December and then we'd got ourselves up there, we blinked first and had an awful March.
Frustrating that for the second season in a row, we couldn't storm out of the gates at the start, and have to be constantly catching up.
It turns out that those points dropped early in the season are just as valuable as those dropped at the end. Who knew?
A complete surprise.
-
I don't want to come across as a merchant of doom, but I think this thread can probably be closed now...
-
Anyone know what Pullis vs Bruce's head to head record is? Not sure it matters but may be interesting in a sort of top trumps/ Darth Sidious vs Darth Maul clash of the darkside way
-
Steve is big and round, Tiny Penis is scrawny. I think our man could take him in the wrestling ring.
-
Anyone know what Pullis vs Bruce's head to head record is? Not sure it matters but may be interesting in a sort of top trumps/ Darth Sidious vs Darth Maul clash of the darkside way
Last few meetings:
Boro 0-1 Villa
West Brom 1-0 Hull
Palace 1-0 Hull
Sunderland 4-0 Stoke
Stoke 3-2 Stoke
Sunderland 2-0 Stoke
Sunderland 0-0 Stoke
Stoke 1-0 Sunderland
Goes back to 2009. They haven't met that many times tbh and pretty even. Don't expect many goals coming up.
-
Anyone know what Pullis vs Bruce's head to head record is? Not sure it matters but may be interesting in a sort of top trumps/ Darth Sidious vs Darth Maul clash of the darkside way
Last few meetings:
Boro 0-1 Villa
West Brom 1-0 Hull
Palace 1-0 Hull
Sunderland 4-0 Stoke
Stoke 3-2 Stoke
Sunderland 2-0 Stoke
Sunderland 0-0 Stoke
Stoke 1-0 Sunderland
Goes back to 2009. They haven't met that many times tbh and pretty even. Don't expect many goals coming up.
Cheers SoccerHQ. seems pretty even, though looks like it could be a total grudge match. Who won when they were both managing stoke? 8)