Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: olaftab on January 05, 2017, 12:35:25 AM

Title: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 05, 2017, 12:35:25 AM
England's one dayers against India start on the 15 January (ok I know there is lot of cricket going on around the world as I write) so time for new thread.

There is also an ulterior motive here. Myself and a good mate have decided to go to Australia for the Ashes. We are planning to be there for the 4th and 5th test. The 4th starts, of course, on Boxing Day in MCG.

Anyway not having been to Australia before let alone an ashes series need some help here from those of you who have done that sort of thing. We are still exploring either joining an organised tour or sorting it all out ourselves so what are the do and don't lists and what would you advise is best course of action? Thank you.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 05, 2017, 01:46:51 AM
Wait, what? They're getting rid of the MCG?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Axl Rose on January 05, 2017, 07:57:01 AM
I expect a pit stop in Tokyo on your journey. It's strip clubs on me!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: hipkiss92 on January 05, 2017, 09:27:19 AM
I thought it's the WACA (Perth) which is holding it's last test in the next Ashes?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2017, 10:20:04 AM
I thought it's the WACA (Perth) which is holding it's last test in the next Ashes?

I think it is the WACA. The "G" holds iconic status in Aussie cricket, more than the SCG.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2017, 10:26:17 AM
The Times are reporting a possible increase in South African Kolpak players due to Brexit:

Quote
Brexit sparks Kolpak county rush

Richard Hobson, Deputy Cricket Correspondent

Uncertainty over Brexit has prompted an exodus of South Africa players to county cricket on Kolpak contracts, with more expected to agree terms before the start of the season. François Brink, who brokered Stiaan van Zyl’s move to Sussex, said that he advised the all-rounder to sign the three-year deal because the route may be shut once Britain leaves the EU.

Concerns within Cricket South Africa (CSA) at the loss of Test players have escalated amid reports that Kyle Abbott is close to joining Hampshire. CSA officials have sought talks with Weber van Wyk, Abbott’s representative, over the pace bowler, whose career has blossomed to the extent that he may spearhead the attack against England this summer.

Kolpak status precludes a player from representing his or her country and South Africa will be concerned over the future of Abbott, 29, who is opening the bowling in South Africa’s present Test against Sri Lanka.

As well as Van Zyl, who has played 12 Tests, the international pair of Hardus Viljoen and Simon Harmer have agreed Kolpak terms with Derbyshire and Essex respectively. Dane Piedt and Rilee Rossouw have been touted around the counties, while Stephen Cook, the Test opener, is also believed to be susceptible to approaches.

The director of cricket at one leading county reported a rush of interest from South African players and representatives at the end of last season before a quieter period leading into Christmas. “Brexit certainly made people ask questions,” he said. “There is a feeling, perhaps, that if you want that sort of player you should get him now.”


Brink, whose agency also manages Piedt, Vernon Philander, Ryan McLaren and Chris Morris, said: “When Stiaan was offered the chance to go as a Kolpak, we said, ‘Let’s take it because the opportunity may never come again.’ It was certainly a driver in his decision. Our advice to clients is that we have to keep Brexit in mind.

“Nobody knows what will happen, but I have to say that in all my time I have not met a South Africa player whose first ambition has not been to play for South Africa. You take that as far as you can, then adjust your targets accordingly.”

The “Kolpak” term comes from Maros Kolpak, a Slovakian handball player, whose victory in a Luxembourg court in 2003 allowed sportsmen from outside EU countries to be treated as though they were in the Union if their nation had a trade agreement.

An influx of South African cricketers abated when the ECB tightened regulations in 2009. To qualify since, a player must have either appeared in one Test during the previous two years, five in the past five, or in 15 white-ball internationals in two years. However, withdrawal from the EU may leave the Kolpak ruling redundant and block the route completely.

Other factors are also making moves attractive. The toughening of quotas in South Africa’s domestic game so that at least six non-white players feature in each franchise has reduced opportunities for white cricketers. Tony Irish, the chief executive of the South African Cricketers’ Association, also believes that soft currency is a factor.

“We pay in the Rand, which can devalue quite significantly from year to year,” he said. “If you go to England you are paid in pounds, and then dollars for the Twenty20 leagues overseas. A lot of players are going to where they are more valued financially. If there is a chance that Brexit will close the Kolpak loophole, you can see there might be this rush.”

In England, the Professional Cricketers’ Association is monitoring signings. David Leatherdale, the chief executive, said: “Immediately after Brexit, we looked at registrations and found 23 EU or Kolpak players out of 410,” he said. “If that suddenly grew to become an average of two or three per side it might become a concern.”

He suggested that the ECB’s Performance Related Fee Payments, which reward counties for fielding nine England-qualified players, will prevent a wave of imports.

An ECB spokesman said: “We await information on the legal situation post-Brexit and will need to hold detailed discussions with our stakeholders, the government and other sporting bodies before we can comment further.”
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lsvilla on January 05, 2017, 11:01:33 AM
It is the WACA - and in fact it may not even host this year as the build of the new ground is ahead of schedule (imagine that !). The current itinerary states Perth venue as TBA for both the test and one-dayer scheduled there.
In answer to the original post I have been to the ashes in Oz twice (independently) and planning to go again this year but to Brisbane and Adelaide as they're the 2 I've not been to. I would personally book flights and accommodation separately as I try to get a flat or house to rent some of the time rather than just hotels but it does require a bit of work. There are several tour operators with rights to sell trips and match tickets and they will provide something for all budgets but of course they aren't doing it for nothing. I've not used them personally but I am told Howzat Travel are pretty good and mid-range on price - if nothing else have a look at what they are offering as it will give an idea of likely cost etc.
However you do it I am sure you will enjoy although I fear we may be in for a hammering. If you decide to go for it and want more info I can probably help a bit.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 05, 2017, 11:32:02 AM
Yeah, I knew they were getting rid of the WACA. Silly idea for them, but good news for England, as the Aussies nearly always win there.

Getting rid of the MCG would be like the Romans deciding to build a new amphitheatre and knocking down the Colosseum.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 05, 2017, 12:15:38 PM
OK looks like mis info on MCG and that's not a very good start :-[
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 05, 2017, 01:02:51 PM
I expect a pit stop in Tokyo on your journey. It's strip clubs on me!
Yes that would be nice. Didn't really do it justice on our last meeting in November.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Axl Rose on January 05, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
I expect a pit stop in Tokyo on your journey. It's strip clubs on me!
Yes that would be nice. Didn't really do it justice on our last meeting in November.

Haha. I'll start organising straight away. A happy new year to you mate. I'm currently up in Hokkaido with the in-laws working in their yakitori restaurant. Back to Tokyo tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on January 06, 2017, 05:43:55 PM
Not sure how many players Hampshire have provided for England in recent years compared to Durham but I see they've signed two Koloa players.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2017, 06:28:12 PM
Not sure how many players Hampshire have provided for England in recent years compared to Durham but I see they've signed two Koloa players.

They are one of the leading "users" of Kolpak players and from what I'm reading there will be a few more Saffers joining the county game under the same rules.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 10, 2017, 04:47:21 PM
England won their warm up game against India A by three wickets. 93 for Sam Billings as they chased down 304 with a few balls to spare.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 14, 2017, 10:25:51 AM
Flicking through the channels and noticed that Ian Bell's Perth Scorchers were playing so decided to give it a watch.

Watched one ball, Bell out.

Turned over.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on January 15, 2017, 08:59:58 AM
I think Morgan has to score big runs in this series to retain his place. Both Billings and Bairstow merit a place in the side on runs and ability currently.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villafirst on January 15, 2017, 11:20:22 AM
Excellent by Stokes! He's hammered India's attack for 62 off 40 deliveries. Just out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 15, 2017, 11:23:41 AM
350 at Pune is gettable for India so  big 2 overs required.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 15, 2017, 11:34:24 AM
Bumrah can not be a legal bowler.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2017, 12:47:24 PM
Excellent delivery to get Rahul, drew him into the shot brilliantly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2017, 01:51:57 PM
We've taken good wickets but we really need to slow the scoring down, if they're around 210-220 with 20 overs left I'd make them favourites unless we've picked up 2-3 more wickets.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 15, 2017, 02:16:29 PM
We really struggle to bowl at Virat Kohli.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: jcsutv on January 15, 2017, 02:28:17 PM
Need a wicket desperately.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2017, 02:40:00 PM
We really struggle to bowl at Virat Kohli.

We're scared of him and the nerves that creates means we bowl far too many in the slot for him.  Woakes in the 32nd for example, he'd done well for 5, had Kohli on 99 and looking to score, that last delivery should've been short or full because Kohli was always going to look for the big hit.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 15, 2017, 04:03:01 PM
Ashwin goes 6 & 6 to finish it
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on January 15, 2017, 04:08:30 PM
Good game of cricket first and foremost.  I think we are probably a strike bowler short at the moment and were probably 20 runs short today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2017, 05:46:10 PM
Kohli is just a beast. It's the one thing that Root needs to add to his game, regularly converting 70s and 80s into centuries.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on January 15, 2017, 06:31:53 PM
Kohli is just a beast. It's the one thing that Root needs to add to his game, regularly converting 70s and 80s into centuries.

Heard on commentary today that he averages over 50 in all three formats of the international game.  To average over 50 in tests and 50 overs is excellent, but to average over 50 in T20s as well is something special.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on January 16, 2017, 09:46:58 AM
Sometime you have to just hold up your hands are say well done. Kohli is the best batsman in world cricket and he guided Yadav (?) through with him to a great run chase. Yes England could have done this or that different but so then too could have India. Just say welldone, we played well for the large part, and move on the the second ODI because we are well in this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 19, 2017, 08:18:45 AM
Good start by England in the 2nd ODI
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 08:24:44 AM
Good start by England in the 2nd ODI

Will be interesting to see how India cope without Kohli's runs. He's scored the majority of their runs in all formats of the game for the last few months, particularly against England!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
We could do with another couple of wickets here, Yuvraj and Dhoni are looking well set.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 09:42:37 AM
We could do with Stokes not throwing pies right now, his 4th over was rank.  Ball has been just as bad.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 10:23:13 AM
Has Woakes picked up an injury? He bowled a spell of 5-3-15-3 and yet at a stage of the game where we need to break a partnership and he's not getting a bowl.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 10:31:53 AM
Has Woakes picked up an injury? He bowled a spell of 5-3-15-3 and yet at a stage of the game where we need to break a partnership and he's not getting a bowl.

Saving him for the death because the other quicks are leaking runs already I suspect
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 11:07:55 AM
India should comfortably get 370 and we are capable of chasing that down.

We are a good one day side but we are a couple of bowlers short of being a dominant one day side. We have had India under pressure in this game and also on Sunday. We don't have an attack that can capitalise on such situations.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 11:11:45 AM
370 is a big ask when they're 268 with 9 left - 350 is probably closer
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
That was a wonderful innings from Yuvraj.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 11:48:19 AM
370 is a big ask when they're 268 with 9 left - 350 is probably closer

Ignore that, we've bowled even worse than I expected.  370 is pretty much in the bag now.  This england bowling attack is terrible other than Woakes and Willey in the first 10 overs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 19, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
Getting to 380 after being 25-3 is one hell of a performance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 12:10:07 PM
382 - we can get that with our batting line up but they need to ignore the scoreboard for 20-30 overs and just play their own game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 12:45:17 PM
Getting to 380 after being 25-3 is one hell of a performance.

They batted very well but we also bowled poorly, far too many deliveries in the slot for them to smash back over the bowlers head.  That's the problem with having Ball, Plunkett and Stokes as your rotation bowlers, they're all too similar (and Willey too once the ball gets a bit old), Woakes is the only one of the quicks who can mix things up and his figures today highlight that perfectly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 01:14:43 PM
Losing Hales fairly early is a blow but we're in a good place so far, just need a good partnership or 2.  We've got players who score naturally at 6-7 an over so if they just stick together and play their game we can look after 35-40 overs and go from there, if we get to that point with 6-7 wickets in hand then we'll be in touch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 02:00:48 PM
Brain fart from Root.  Roy needs to take some responsibility here and push us on without doing anything silly and Morgan desperately needs a score.  Something around a run a ball for the next 10 for this pair and then we can really go after them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 02:17:33 PM
mockers
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 02:23:47 PM
Awful from Stokes, getting out to a delivery like that is beneath him, he's in really poor form with the ball and he seems to have let it sneak into his batting as the tour has progressed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 02:41:04 PM
I think we're cooked, needed a score from Buttler.  A few of the England players need to remember that they can leave ones behind their legs and get a run and an extra ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2017, 04:17:44 PM
Well we got closer than I thought we would. We really needed someone to get a big hundred but it didn't happen.

At times we bowled seemingly without a brain and there was some poor cricket from our batsman at times. Huge credit to Yuraj and Dhoni though who both played wonderful innings.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 04:20:58 PM
The length of the bowling in the last 10-15 overs isn't good enough, too many deliveries that CAN be smashed out of the ground.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2017, 05:27:43 PM
Tough result, but really important knock from Morgan.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2017, 09:11:33 PM
the bowling needs to improve though, Woakes and Willey opened things birlliantly but all the threat disappeared once they were changed and India took it easy knowing hey could get a hatful at the end if they didn't give away wickets.  I honestly think the problem is that the bowlers are just too samey.  Once you've got settled against Ball you can face Stokes, Plunkett and Willey (outside the first 10 overs) knowing that there'll be bowling a similar line, length and pace.  I'd keep Willey in and get him to bowl a long opening spell and Woakes and Ali have to stay but 2 of the other 3 need to be replaced or retrained if we want to start restricting teams.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on January 20, 2017, 12:27:09 AM
the bowling needs to improve though, Woakes and Willey opened things birlliantly but all the threat disappeared once they were changed and India took it easy knowing hey could get a hatful at the end if they didn't give away wickets.  I honestly think the problem is that the bowlers are just too samey.  Once you've got settled against Ball you can face Stokes, Plunkett and Willey (outside the first 10 overs) knowing that there'll be bowling a similar line, length and pace.  I'd keep Willey in and get him to bowl a long opening spell and Woakes and Ali have to stay but 2 of the other 3 need to be replaced or retrained if we want to start restricting teams.

I'm not sure how much to take from it seeing as it in subcontinent conditions.  I share your concerns regarding the bowling though and it concerns me that we don't really have any bowlers who can keep it tight in the middle overs.  We are building towards the ICC trophy on home soil though and I don't think we are a million miles off being very competitive in that. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 20, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
I think Stokes as a one day bowler is starting to become a little bit of a luxury. He's a wonderful player and has that unique ability to make something happen. However he bowls far too many boundary balls and as a result he is pretty expensive. A player of his ability should not send down so many rank bad balls. Of course he's probably worth his place in the side for his batting and fielding alone.

We lack a bowler who can tie an end up and take the pressure off. We also lack a bowler who has the capability to break a partnership. We have needed to break partnerships in both of the ODI's against India and we couldn't do it before severe damage had been inflicted.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 22, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Great cameo from Woakes at the end with 34 off 19 balls.

I think we're probably 20 runs short of a decent target and yet again none of our batsmen has capitalised on a good start and gone on to make a meaningful hundred.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2017, 12:46:39 PM
Kohli is one again starting to annoy me...but Rahul gone India 2 down.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2017, 01:35:19 PM
Really poor drop by Ball and Kohli is making the most of it. How often does someone in form get those sort of breaks?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2017, 01:51:13 PM
Mockers again, I'm getting good at this!

Still a big ask because yuvraj and dhoni are well capable of pushing them along.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2017, 02:01:15 PM
If Yuvraj sticks around for another 10 overs it's India's match.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2017, 02:32:10 PM
Nice one aftab, that saw him off.  Anyone else want a go?

Ooo, Dhoni gone, we have to win this from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2017, 03:21:29 PM
This is a 20/20 dash now 78 from 50.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2017, 03:34:30 PM
Again we've bowled badly in the last 15.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2017, 03:40:40 PM
TF for that wicket. Well done Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 22, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
Jadhav finally runs out of luck and  England win deservedly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 22, 2017, 04:14:06 PM
Great game of cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: adrenachrome on January 22, 2017, 05:11:26 PM
Yes, excellent game.

I am really pleased for Chris Woakes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 22, 2017, 05:43:22 PM
I think special credit needs to go to Woakes for that final over, he bowled a couple of loose ones for 6 and 4 so it takes some serious balls to then throw down 3 dots and a wicket delivery.  If the whole squad can get that sort of mental strength then we'll be laughing.

Stokes also showed he's learned form the T20 and bowled a couple of really strong death overs.  They were better today but I still think 1 from Ball or Plunkett is the way forward and given their ages I'd be looking to replace the latter asap.  I like the 6 bowlers though and the batting ability of Stokes, Ali, Woakes and, to an extent, Willey means we're not losing anything with the bat to go with them and it means the choice should be entirely around their ability to take wickets but more importantly give Morgan some control.  We have the opening bowling down with Woakes and Willey, they're regularly getting 2-3 wickets in the first 7-8 overs which is brilliant, but the game 'drifts' too much after that if the pitch isn't helping the other seamers.

Someone who can be our game changer in tougher conditions is the key, either by bowling 4-5 cheap overs or by taking big wickets.  I'd have loved that person to be Mills, he looks perfect for it with the extra pace and his natural length, such a shame he can't play more than t20.  Wood is an option but his injuries are worrying as well, I suspect he'll give it up himself in a few years as there's clearly an underlying issue.

I've been told to keep an eye on Matt Fisher from Yorkshire, he's captaining the U19 team in India later this month and is supposed to be seriously quick.  Seem to remember someone telling me about a young leftie at Notts who looked good as well but I can't remember his name.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on January 22, 2017, 11:56:05 PM
I think special credit needs to go to Woakes for that final over, he bowled a couple of loose ones for 6 and 4 so it takes some serious balls to then throw down 3 dots and a wicket delivery.  If the whole squad can get that sort of mental strength then we'll be laughing.

Stokes also showed he's learned form the T20 and bowled a couple of really strong death overs.  They were better today but I still think 1 from Ball or Plunkett is the way forward and given their ages I'd be looking to replace the latter asap.  I like the 6 bowlers though and the batting ability of Stokes, Ali, Woakes and, to an extent, Willey means we're not losing anything with the bat to go with them and it means the choice should be entirely around their ability to take wickets but more importantly give Morgan some control.  We have the opening bowling down with Woakes and Willey, they're regularly getting 2-3 wickets in the first 7-8 overs which is brilliant, but the game 'drifts' too much after that if the pitch isn't helping the other seamers.

Someone who can be our game changer in tougher conditions is the key, either by bowling 4-5 cheap overs or by taking big wickets.  I'd have loved that person to be Mills, he looks perfect for it with the extra pace and his natural length, such a shame he can't play more than t20.  Wood is an option but his injuries are worrying as well, I suspect he'll give it up himself in a few years as there's clearly an underlying issue.

I've been told to keep an eye on Matt Fisher from Yorkshire, he's captaining the U19 team in India later this month and is supposed to be seriously quick.  Seem to remember someone telling me about a young leftie at Notts who looked good as well but I can't remember his name.

Agree with a lot of that Paul.  Good to get the win today and its been a pretty encouraging series on the whole seeing as it has been played in unfamiliar conditions.

The focus for the 50 over side is now the ICC Trophy in the summer.  The batting line up looks pretty settled and therr are decent options in the likes Billings, Bairstow and Duckett.  Like you, I don't think the balance of the bowling is quite right.  I wonder whether Broad might come in especially for the tournament and am still holding out hope that Finn will come good. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2017, 07:05:10 AM
I enjoyed the BBL semi final yesterday. Johnson was unplayable and returned the best ever figures in the BBL, 4-2-3-3.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on January 25, 2017, 04:17:34 PM
I bet we still conceded.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2017, 09:31:56 PM
I enjoyed the BBL semi final yesterday. Johnson was unplayable and returned the best ever figures in the BBL, 4-2-3-3.



Second semi-final was a good one as well
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2017, 07:26:40 AM
I bet we still conceded.

I see what you did there!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
Great spell from Mo in the t20 bowled out his 4 with 2-21

Over all we've taken important wickets at good times all through so far to keep them from getting a huge score.  106-5 after 15.

The pitch looks like a 170-180 for me, there's not a huge amount of demons in it, so I think they might struggle to make 'par' on here.  Dhoni still in though so he's the key player right now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2017, 12:26:08 PM
Great spell from Mo in the t20 bowled out his 4 with 2-21

Over all we've taken important wickets at good times all through so far to keep them from getting a huge score.  106-5 after 15.

The pitch looks like a 170-180 for me, there's not a huge amount of demons in it, so I think they might struggle to make 'par' on here.  Dhoni still in though so he's the key player right now.

His strike rate in overs 16 - 20 is 168. They could still go big but we've bowled well. They started well and we have done well to restrict them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 12:40:28 PM
147-7 all done I reckon that's 25 short and they'll be very disappointed, teh spell from Ali and Stokes getting Raina just as he started to go big  were the key moments for me.

Mills is blindingly quick and exactly what we're missing in the ODI team, such a shame he can't play the longer format.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2017, 12:53:06 PM
147-7 all done I reckon that's 25 short and they'll be very disappointed, teh spell from Ali and Stokes getting Raina just as he started to go big  were the key moments for me.

Mills is blindingly quick and exactly what we're missing in the ODI team, such a shame he can't play the longer format.

I thought Jordan did well to turn the last over around. He went for 10 off the first three balls then bowled two dots which are valuable at any stage of a T20 innings, more so in the death overs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 12:56:54 PM
147-7 all done I reckon that's 25 short and they'll be very disappointed, teh spell from Ali and Stokes getting Raina just as he started to go big  were the key moments for me.

Mills is blindingly quick and exactly what we're missing in the ODI team, such a shame he can't play the longer format.

I thought Jordan did well to turn the last over around. He went for 10 off the first three balls then bowled two dots which are valuable at any stage of a T20 innings, more so in the death overs.

absolutely, I think all the bowlers did well but the death bowling was made easier by the situation we'd put them into earlier.

This is a brilliant start by Billings, smashed the 2nd over for 20.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 01:05:58 PM
Roy gone which is a shame but that's how to start a t20, 42-1 after 20 balls is insane, we've already got the chase down to around a run a ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 01:08:40 PM
bugger, needed Billings to hang around a while whilst Root 'got in'.  Still a brilliant start which has got us on the front foot but we've effectively just hit reset.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2017, 01:09:58 PM
Bloody spinners. Again!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2017, 02:09:17 PM
That's an emphatic victory with 11 balls to spare. A good all round performance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 02:13:41 PM
Credit where it's due, this is an absolutely superb performance.

Bowled brilliantly, top 4 batted superbly and judged their innings perfectly. Truly great t20 performance,
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 26, 2017, 02:50:26 PM
Excellent today, brilliant start from Roy and Billings meaning that Root could just keep the scoreboard ticking while Morgan teed off.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 26, 2017, 02:53:44 PM
That's an emphatic victory with 11 balls to spare. A good all round performance.
In Twenty/20 that's like an innings win!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2017, 03:50:40 PM
That's an emphatic victory with 11 balls to spare. A good all round performance.
In Twenty/20 that's like an innings win!

As I said, we bowled them for 25-30 below par which is a massive advantage in this format, If we'd wanted too I think we had the batting to do it in 15-16 overs, remember we chased it easily with Root playing a holding role and Buttler watching from the side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2017, 05:34:02 PM
Great performance today and Mills not closing the door on 50 over cricket is great news.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 26, 2017, 06:14:47 PM
Great performance today and Mills not closing the door on 50 over cricket is great news.

Have a balanced bowling attack and Mills doesn't have to bowl a full ten overs anyway, two bursts of four at either end of the innings should be okay for him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2017, 06:41:54 PM
Great performance today and Mills not closing the door on 50 over cricket is great news.

Have a balanced bowling attack and Mills doesn't have to bowl a full ten overs anyway, two bursts of four at either end of the innings should be okay for him.

I'd hope so and he could give us what the ODI side is missing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on January 27, 2017, 05:06:47 AM
I left work yesterday at the end of the Indian innings and for one of the first times I can remember I had absolutely no doubt that this England side would chase the total down woth ease. Paul e said that the Indians were 20 or 30 shy. Maybe so, but I would have backed us to get 20 or 30 runs comfortably had we have needed to.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on January 28, 2017, 01:10:01 AM
Great performance today and Mills not closing the door on 50 over cricket is great news.

Have a balanced bowling attack and Mills doesn't have to bowl a full ten overs anyway, two bursts of four at either end of the innings should be okay for him.

I'd hope so and he could give us what the ODI side is missing.

Agree Paul.  That type of pace is very rare in English cricket (a left armer with that kind if pace is even more rare) and it is just such a shame that he has suffered so badly with injuries. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2017, 08:36:03 AM
I left work yesterday at the end of the Indian innings and for one of the first times I can remember I had absolutely no doubt that this England side would chase the total down woth ease. Paul e said that the Indians were 20 or 30 shy. Maybe so, but I would have backed us to get 20 or 30 runs comfortably had we have needed to.

Yeah in general there is a cold clinical edge to this England side when it chases. There are several players who you just feel will do the job and it's useful to have Morgan back in form.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 28, 2017, 07:08:18 PM
Great to see Gloucestershire and Warwickshire win the Big Bash
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on January 29, 2017, 10:59:19 AM
And Yorkshire.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 29, 2017, 03:05:44 PM
Another good performance with the ball restricted India to 144-8 off their 20 overs. The last 5 overs went for 36 runs which is excellent death bowling in T20. It's an achievable target and I think India are probably 20 runs short of setting us a challenging target.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on January 29, 2017, 03:10:30 PM
Yes England bowling and fielding  was good and with a little application from batsmen this is a win.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 29, 2017, 05:01:09 PM
Poor way to lose, as we bowled really well. Although a terrible umpiring decision cost us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villafirst on January 29, 2017, 09:00:55 PM
Poor way to lose, as we bowled really well. Although a terrible umpiring decision cost us.

Technology is needed for big decisions. Shit umpiring for Roots dismissal.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on January 30, 2017, 06:33:04 PM
He fucked up some big calls when they were batting as well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on January 30, 2017, 09:01:31 PM
Great game between Aus & NZ. Looked like the convicts had no chance but Marcus Stoinis hit an unbeaten 146 to get them close to victory only for Hazlewood to get run out backing up.

The 50 partnership for the 10th wicket come up without Hazlewood even facing a ball  :o
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 31, 2017, 08:42:57 AM
Poor way to lose, as we bowled really well. Although a terrible umpiring decision cost us.

Technology is needed for big decisions. Shit umpiring for Roots dismissal.

Turns out the umpire appointment was against the rules of the ICC, his appointment by India was within a restricted time period as he'd just finished umpiring in Australia a day or so earlier. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on January 31, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
Poor way to lose, as we bowled really well. Although a terrible umpiring decision cost us.

Technology is needed for big decisions. Shit umpiring for Roots dismissal.

Turns out the umpire appointment was against the rules of the ICC, his appointment by India was within a restricted time period as he'd just finished umpiring in Australia a day or so earlier. 

Nothing the BCCI does surprises me. However regardless of whether he was suffering from jet lag or not, he is still a poor umpire.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 01, 2017, 01:46:10 PM
Kohli run out very early on, clearly his fault but he blamed Rahul at the non-strikers end.

Kohli is a marvellous player but strikes me as an arrogant prick. Dhoni always seemed magnanimous in victory and defeat so clearly Kohli needs to learn something from him before he becomes one of the most disliked players in world cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
Well that was pretty poor.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 01, 2017, 07:26:02 PM
Well that was pretty poor.

That's the understatement of the year so far Paul! It was a woefully inadequate performance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on February 01, 2017, 08:34:56 PM
8 for 8

Last six balls were WoW WoW
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: adrenachrome on February 02, 2017, 02:06:10 AM
8 for 8

Last six balls were WoW WoW

Glad no Warwickshire or Gloucestershire players were involved, tied up as they were with winning the Big Bash.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 04, 2017, 01:56:18 PM
There is currently time being lost in the SA vs SL ODI because of bees.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 04, 2017, 03:55:33 PM
The fuckers demonstrating about the price of honey again?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 06, 2017, 09:38:01 AM
Alastair Cook is standing down as captain.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2017, 12:36:36 PM
No shock, I expected him to announce that a month ago.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2017, 01:04:32 PM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2017, 02:10:43 PM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.

I think that's what the decision is about and I hope he's opening the batting for us to great effect for a few more years and without going in after a long day in the field with his head clearly not in the right place.  Openng batsmen don't last as captain for all that long because combining the 2 jobs is mentally exhausting and Cook looked like he needed a break in the India tour.  Keep him involved and working with Jennings, Hameed, Duckett and Billings and lets get a top 3 ready as the next generation.

I suspect Root is the obvious choice for the next captain and I think he'll be really good for it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on February 06, 2017, 02:44:59 PM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.

Openng batsmen don't last as captain for all that long because combining the 2 jobs is mentally exhausting and Cook looked like he needed a break in the India tour.

Alastair Cook 59 matches as captain
Andrew Strauss 50 matches as captain
Michael Atherton 54 matches as cpatain
Graham Gooch 34 matches as captain

All openers and 4 of England's top 6 longest serving captain's.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.

Openng batsmen don't last as captain for all that long because combining the 2 jobs is mentally exhausting and Cook looked like he needed a break in the India tour.

Alastair Cook 59 matches as captain
Andrew Strauss 50 matches as captain
Michael Atherton 54 matches as cpatain
Graham Gooch 34 matches as captain

All openers and 4 of England's top 6 longest serving captain's.

Indeed, and now look at their batting averages from before they got the role and series on series as captain, they all have a clear downward trajectory.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on February 06, 2017, 07:52:20 PM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.

Openng batsmen don't last as captain for all that long because combining the 2 jobs is mentally exhausting and Cook looked like he needed a break in the India tour.

Alastair Cook 59 matches as captain
Andrew Strauss 50 matches as captain
Michael Atherton 54 matches as cpatain
Graham Gooch 34 matches as captain

All openers and 4 of England's top 6 longest serving captain's.

Indeed, and now look at their batting averages from before they got the role and series on series as captain, they all have a clear downward trajectory.
Which is not what you said. Opening batsman actuallg seem to last longer than any other player as captain. Yes, their averages might have a clear downward trajectory but I'd suggest most captains of most countries have the same regardless of their batting position.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on February 06, 2017, 08:09:45 PM
Player         Tests (as captain) Average as captain Average not as captain         
    David Gower         117 (32)             43.59                44.50
    Mike Gatting         79 (23)             44.05                32.21
    Graham Gooch        118 (34)             58.72                35.93 
    Alec Stewart        133 (15)             39.22                39.59
    Mike Atherton       115 (54)             40.58                35.25
    Nasser Hussain       96 (45)             36.04                38.10
    Michael Vaughan      82 (51)             36.02                50.98
    Andrew Flintoff      79 (11)             33.23                31.53
    Andrew Strauss      100 (50)             40.76                41.04 
   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on February 06, 2017, 08:22:08 PM
I also note the three longest serving test match captains are Graeme Smith, Allan Border and Stephen Fleming.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
the overall averages aren't so helpful because they're usually made captain because they're one of the best players so that form plays a part, it's the last 2-3 series before they step down/get sacked where they always seem to be under far too much pressure.

It might not be so clear in the stats but it's the impression I've always had.

Anyway, regardless of that I think it's right decision for Cook and I think it may prove to be the right decision for England as well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on February 06, 2017, 09:24:01 PM
I agree that Cook stepping down as captain is the right thing to do at this time.

I hope he stays on for another few years yet, regaining near to the Ashes form of 2010/11.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 07, 2017, 08:21:55 AM
How do you view Cook's captaincy?

I thought that he started slowly and was too conservative. He grew into the job but never really lost the conservatism. I also thought he was a little tactically naive.

That said two Ashes wins and a series win last year in South Africa stand out. I also admire that way he stuck at it after the last Ashes series down under when things were chaotic.

He's not my favourite England captain. That honour go the Michael Vaughan due to the wonderful memories of 2005. It's such a pity that he's apparently an odious twat. I liked Strauss too. Those two were supreme tacticians.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 07, 2017, 10:07:02 AM
I think Cook did a lot of things right and there are definitely more positives than negatives from his time but he had a tendency to let games drift by defaulting to a defensive field and getting bowlers to concentrate on keeping the rate down rather than taking wickets if the pitch got flat.  On top of that I think there's only been 4-5 bowlers that he's ever really trusted and his tactics in a lot of games were about how to get those bowlers the chances to take wickets rather than how can I use my entire attack to bowl this team out.  The lack of any real strategy for the 30-60 over period is what has help him back, I think having Broad and Anderson made him a bit lazy in that regard because for huge parts of the day he knew he could throw the ball to them and they'd just make stuff happen and he didn't really need to force anything.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 07, 2017, 10:11:49 AM
Hope he can continue for a few years as a player.

Openng batsmen don't last as captain for all that long because combining the 2 jobs is mentally exhausting and Cook looked like he needed a break in the India tour.

Alastair Cook 59 matches as captain
Andrew Strauss 50 matches as captain
Michael Atherton 54 matches as cpatain
Graham Gooch 34 matches as captain

All openers and 4 of England's top 6 longest serving captain's.

Indeed, and now look at their batting averages from before they got the role and series on series as captain, they all have a clear downward trajectory.

Gooch went massively the other way from memory.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 07, 2017, 01:21:06 PM
Gooch had that great home series against India which made him but in the ashes series where he retired he looked utterly broken (him looking lost in that series is one of the most enduring memories I have of watching cricket as a teenager) but then came back and put in a few really good batting performances before he retired.

I think being a good captain without it affecting your own game requires a very specific mindset, partially that's about underlying personality but form/frame of mind/desire all play a part and those things change over time.  There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).  Cook has never been a great game manager anyway and in the last 2-3 series his flaws have been quite stark, that's why I firmly believe it's the right decision and I said as much towards the end of the test series.  Good guy and great batsman but not the right captain for us any more.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on February 07, 2017, 03:18:45 PM
There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).
Nothing to do with captaincy, there are very, very few sportsmen and women in the world who bow out on top, captain or just in the ranks.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 07, 2017, 04:11:42 PM
There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).
Nothing to do with captaincy, there are very, very few sportsmen and women in the world who bow out on top, captain or just in the ranks.

yes, but even if their own game is fine a captain can hit a wall, as I think Cook has done, that's the point I was trying to make (but made a bit of a mess of).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on February 08, 2017, 07:52:21 AM
There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).
Nothing to do with captaincy, there are very, very few sportsmen and women in the world who bow out on top, captain or just in the ranks.

Elway & Manning in the NFL and Rosberg in F1 are recent ones that I can think of but, in general, you're correct
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 08, 2017, 08:36:04 AM
Gooch had that great home series against India which made him but in the ashes series where he retired he looked utterly broken (him looking lost in that series is one of the most enduring memories I have of watching cricket as a teenager) but then came back and put in a few really good batting performances before he retired.

I think being a good captain without it affecting your own game requires a very specific mindset, partially that's about underlying personality but form/frame of mind/desire all play a part and those things change over time.  There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).  Cook has never been a great game manager anyway and in the last 2-3 series his flaws have been quite stark, that's why I firmly believe it's the right decision and I said as much towards the end of the test series.  Good guy and great batsman but not the right captain for us any more.

That India series was in 1990. Over the next 4 years - he retired in 95 at the end of the ashes series in Aus- he scored 2839 runs post that India series and until his final tour. He had scored 7 test centuries and 10 half centuries over 6 series (including a one off test v Sri lanka). This is from roughly 35-40 innings and before a double century v New Zealand in 94 (he didn't have a good series then). his average also went up from around 41 to 44 post that India series. So, no, Gooch did more than have a good series against india - but yes his end was pretty quick.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2017, 09:29:54 AM
Gooch had that great home series against India which made him but in the ashes series where he retired he looked utterly broken (him looking lost in that series is one of the most enduring memories I have of watching cricket as a teenager) but then came back and put in a few really good batting performances before he retired.

I think being a good captain without it affecting your own game requires a very specific mindset, partially that's about underlying personality but form/frame of mind/desire all play a part and those things change over time.  There are very few captains in world cricket who bow out on top, either the game management or their own game falls away (or both).  Cook has never been a great game manager anyway and in the last 2-3 series his flaws have been quite stark, that's why I firmly believe it's the right decision and I said as much towards the end of the test series.  Good guy and great batsman but not the right captain for us any more.

That India series was in 1990. Over the next 4 years - he retired in 95 at the end of the ashes series in Aus- he scored 2839 runs post that India series and until his final tour. He had scored 7 test centuries and 10 half centuries over 6 series (including a one off test v Sri lanka). This is from roughly 35-40 innings and before a double century v New Zealand in 94 (he didn't have a good series then). his average also went up from around 41 to 44 post that India series. So, no, Gooch did more than have a good series against india - but yes his end was pretty quick.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, I didn't say the India series was all he did well, I said that series made him.  What I was getting at was that he had a series that was almost perfect very quickly after getting the captaincy full time and it almost redefined him as a player.  To get a series like that in his mid-thirties was a huge boost and he had the experience to really use that confidence.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 08, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
I agree that it made him - but I'd go further and say that he became the standard bearer for England openers, and wider batsman, in terms of the hunger for runs. The captaincy helped in that it came to him later and he relished the time he had and wanted to make runs to capitalise on what had come to him later. (The captaincy and the realisation that he revelled in responsibility). Which is why I'm not sure about Root - I tend to prefer the more experienced players in any sport being the captain. There are of course always exceptions in any sport - Smith for SA, Warburton at 22 for Wales, maybe even Beckham for England. Its also why the 'daddy hundred' concept worked for Gooch but again like any sport unless you have that fire to want to win and be successful you can't coach someone to be Gooch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2017, 10:35:35 AM
Root has played 53 tests though and is the same age Cook was when he became captain (roughly).  On top of that who else is there?  Ignoring Cook there's only really Broad and Anderson with more experience than Root who are likely to start and I have an even bigger problem with opening bowlers being captains than I do opening batsmen.  Whenever I've seen a quick bowler as captain they all fall 1 of 2 ways and either under bowl themselves or run themselves into the ground.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on February 08, 2017, 01:29:51 PM
Root has played 53 tests though and is the same age Cook was when he became captain (roughly).  On top of that who else is there?  Ignoring Cook there's only really Broad and Anderson with more experience than Root who are likely to start and I have an even bigger problem with opening bowlers being captains than I do opening batsmen.  Whenever I've seen a quick bowler as captain they all fall 1 of 2 ways and either under bowl themselves or run themselves into the ground.
Maybe we had it right with Mike Brearley.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 09, 2017, 08:27:38 PM
At least captain Cook's abysmal run of defeats in final tests is now over.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 10, 2017, 10:20:14 AM
I'd like Stokes to get it out of the 3 options. Maybe even, and this is a left field one - Ali...
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on February 13, 2017, 11:44:26 AM
Joe Root is the new Test captain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38954275
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 13, 2017, 04:44:44 PM
Joe Root is the new Test captain

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/38954275

It's the logical appointment and I wish him well. I hope he is able to maintain his form though, we will miss his runs otherwise.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on February 14, 2017, 11:23:42 AM
One thing I reckon we will see with Root as captain is more of his bowling. He really fancies himself as a bowler but rarely gets a go, he can just bring himself on when he wants now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2017, 01:46:42 PM
I'm ok with that, bringing a pie-chucker on for 1-2 overs as something different is what Cook just didn't like to do and it's why so often we'd drift in that 40-60 over period where the ball is too soft for swing and not scuffed enough to reverse.  The plan, far too often, was Mo at one end and just cycle through the quicks opposite him to try to waste the overs as cheaply as possible.  Remember Root has 15 wickets from the little 'fuck it' spells he'a been given so far so it's not a crazy idea to make him a bit more of a 'go to' partnership breaker.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on February 14, 2017, 02:08:44 PM
Didn't Root bring himself on in one game while Cook was off the field and take a couple of wickets ?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on February 16, 2017, 10:57:44 AM
Yes, against India in December.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ads on February 16, 2017, 08:01:44 PM
You've got to be proactive and try and break the rythmn and concentration of the set batsmen, especially when the new ball is still 20 overs away. You always get the odd part timer with a knack for breaking partnerships.

I really rated Cook; wins in India, Australia and South Africa is top stuff, but I agree he'd let things drift. Too often he'd set fields for the bad ball rather than going for the jugular. England are forever getting on top and letting it slip.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 17, 2017, 09:54:19 AM
The Eng Lions struggling in Sri Lanka - currently 219/8. 1st day of 4. Jennings out for 20 odd, Hameed 4.

No Warwickshire players.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 18, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
The Eng Lions struggling in Sri Lanka - currently 219/8. 1st day of 4. Jennings out for 20 odd, Hameed 4.

No Warwickshire players.

The Lions turned the game around pretty well. We scored 316 all out and bowled Sri Lanka A out for 167. We're 24-2 in our second innings and rain has stopped play. Hameed was out for a duck though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 24, 2017, 10:31:45 AM
India are struggling against the Crims, 105 all out in a home test. They lost their last 7 wickets for 11 runs. A collapse of England-esque proportions!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on February 24, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
Why couldnt they have batted like that against us FFS! They were shocking.

Then they managed to have Smith dropped 3 times on his way to a horrible looking fifty.  He looks like a club cricketer at times Smith, bloody horrible to watch, but always gets runs.

India were utterly dreadful today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2017, 07:56:13 AM
India have been terrible, but the Aussie spinners have actually bowled well and having Starc shows the difference of having real pace in the attack.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 25, 2017, 09:51:34 AM
They rolled over in the second innings too, 107 all out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on February 26, 2017, 02:35:10 PM
We're becoming too much of a bits and pieces test team. no real strike bowler anymore with bags of pace and the spinning option is extremely limited. The batting has become confused in knowing whether to stick or twist. The effect of 20/20 has shown itself negatively in the teat arena. There is more reasons (excuses) for the lack of a spin option but we are terrible here. Other than Swann and Panesar very sporadically, Tufnell a little bit, we haven't really produced spinners in this country since the 70s and maybe early 80s. The batting lacks character and leadership so hopefully having Root as captain will allow for a player to lead from the front as Cook seemed able to do only when he was playing well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on February 26, 2017, 05:33:56 PM
We're becoming too much of a bits and pieces test team. no real strike bowler anymore with bags of pace and the spinning option is extremely limited. The batting has become confused in knowing whether to stick or twist. The effect of 20/20 has shown itself negatively in the teat arena. There is more reasons (excuses) for the lack of a spin option but we are terrible here. Other than Swann and Panesar very sporadically, Tufnell a little bit, we haven't really produced spinners in this country since the 70s and maybe early 80s. The batting lacks character and leadership so hopefully having Root as captain will allow for a player to lead from the front as Cook seemed able to do only when he was playing well.
Monty Panesar now Aussie spin bowling coach.....
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on February 26, 2017, 05:54:31 PM
We haven't produced a top class spinner since the rules were changed about covering pitches.

I don't think T20 has been negative for test cricket in this country. In fact I'd say that it has brought about a massive improvement in the standards of fielding. Players are more athletic in the field now and gone are the days when you had to hide a lumbering fast bowler like Harmison out on the boundary.

We will have to ensure that tests and not T20 are still viewed as the pinnacle of the game in this country. Sadly that is not the case in other countries.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 02, 2017, 04:58:36 PM
Hales and Ball out injured for first ODI tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 03, 2017, 01:08:45 PM
It looks like rain in Antigua will delay the start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on March 03, 2017, 05:22:04 PM
Morgan is having a captains knock today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 03, 2017, 07:41:31 PM
The bowling has been decent but this spell from Rashid is poor so far.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2017, 08:29:15 AM
Good to see Morgan has fully established his place now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 04, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
I thing that our batting unit is better chasing a target than setting one so it was good to see them post a decent score.

I listened to most of the game on TMS and then watched the last 10 overs. It wasn't the same without Tony Cozier.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2017, 10:04:01 AM
India skittled again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 04, 2017, 03:32:59 PM
The bowling has been decent but this spell from Rashid is poor so far.

We're still missing that strike bowler who can lead the attack.  Only thing missing from the 50 over side at the moment. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2017, 05:02:15 PM
The bowling has been decent but this spell from Rashid is poor so far.

We're still missing that strike bowler who can lead the attack.  Only thing missing from the 50 over side at the moment.

It's supposed to be Plunkett and he did the job yesterday but he's too inconsistent.  To give Rashid credit he did improve and make a breakthrough but he sometimes seems to lose his concentration and throw a few down leg for very cheap runs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 04, 2017, 07:53:08 PM
The bowling has been decent but this spell from Rashid is poor so far.

We're still missing that strike bowler who can lead the attack.  Only thing missing from the 50 over side at the moment.

It's supposed to be Plunkett and he did the job yesterday but he's too inconsistent.  To give Rashid credit he did improve and make a breakthrough but he sometimes seems to lose his concentration and throw a few down leg for very cheap runs.

To be fair, we probably haven't got one Paul.  The two main candidates, Mills and Broad, don't play that format of the game. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2017, 08:05:11 PM
The bowling has been decent but this spell from Rashid is poor so far.

We're still missing that strike bowler who can lead the attack.  Only thing missing from the 50 over side at the moment.

It's supposed to be Plunkett and he did the job yesterday but he's too inconsistent.  To give Rashid credit he did improve and make a breakthrough but he sometimes seems to lose his concentration and throw a few down leg for very cheap runs.

To be fair, we probably haven't got one Paul.  The two main candidates, Mills and Broad, don't play that format of the game. 

I don't disagree, I really wanted Willey to become that player and I think he still might but he needs to learn how to make things happen after his first spell.  Woakes, Stokes and Ali are 3 guaranteed starters for me and the good thing is they're all middle order players at this level for me so we can look for 9, 10 and 11 out and out bowlers for the other spots.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on March 05, 2017, 03:01:34 AM
India skittled again.

Brilliant bowling from Nathan Lyon. Nice to see India on the other side of a couple of unplayable spinners and kudos to the Convicts. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 05, 2017, 07:17:26 PM
Falling apart against spin again. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 06, 2017, 07:22:20 AM
Disappointing middle order collapse meant that the game was saved by one of our own.

Woakes batted with maturity and patience and completely out scored Root. The Windies were unlucky with an injury to Shannon Gabriel robbing them of a good bowler and it would have been interesting to see how the game would have progressed if he had bowled his quota.

Roy's knock at the top of the order was great and we bowled well but we were generally poor in the field. We are making progress and continue to build on the shambles that was the last 50 over World Cup. We are very close to being a very good one day team, we just need to be a little more consistent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2017, 01:32:36 PM
I think my slight issue is the middle order of Stokes, Buttler and Ali. They're all very good players, but they are also players who when they're not in form look horrible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 06, 2017, 02:41:57 PM
I think my slight issue is the middle order of Stokes, Buttler and Ali. They're all very good players, but they are also players who when they're not in form look horrible.

I think you have to consider Woakes as middle order as well and extend it to a 4 so you can create 3 very distinct groups in the team.  You have the top 4 and generally we're looking for them to set things up and for at least 1 of them to get a big score.  Then you have the 4 finishers in the middle who's primary job is to score quickly but also have a 2nd role to bring it back if we lose quick wickets.  if 1 of them gets a 50 and the others score a handful we're generally competitive.  Finally you have the bottom 3 who aren't expected to bat but, if needed, we want them to be able to score very quickly, Rashid and Plunkett very much fit that bill.  We've won twice and both times at least 1 person from each of the 2 main groups has stood up and done their job.  It's if 1 of those groups fails completely that we struggle.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on March 07, 2017, 05:02:19 AM
So, you mean like just about every cricket team?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on March 07, 2017, 08:43:30 AM
Australia in big trouble at 101-6 at tea on day four against India. Still need 87 to win.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on March 07, 2017, 09:34:53 AM
Kohli really does come across as lacking in any class on the pitch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on March 07, 2017, 12:03:35 PM
I'll be surprised if a few players don't get into trouble here, Kohli, Smith, O'Keefe in particular while Starc got a major send off. Terrific Test match though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 07, 2017, 12:11:34 PM
Kohli really does come across as lacking in any class on the pitch.

I can't stand him, good cricketer but comes across as an arsehole.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 07, 2017, 08:08:58 PM
Kohli really does come across as lacking in any class on the pitch.

I can't stand him, good cricketer but comes across as an arsehole.

He needs to take a few lessons from the MS Dhoni school of captaincy and diplomacy. Dhoni was competitive but captained with grace and style.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 09, 2017, 03:30:10 PM
Great knock from Hales developing here with Root going about his business at other end...Hales 85, Root 47 153/1 28.4 overs
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 09, 2017, 03:40:44 PM
151 partnership off 155 Root 65 Hales 91 178/1 31.2
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on March 09, 2017, 03:45:21 PM
Going well but the West Indies are a very poor team at the moment. Still, you can only beat what's in front of you and all that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 09, 2017, 03:48:41 PM
Hales been given out LBW but reviewed and gets repreived....189/1 33.2 Hales 93 Root 75
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 09, 2017, 03:53:19 PM
204/1 34.4 Hales 101 (99) Root 81(90)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 09, 2017, 04:05:17 PM
Superb knock from Hales from what I've seen, making it look very easy.  The lbw he got reprieved for never looked right to me, I think it was a pretty poor decision, it was closer than I expected and was still missing by an inch or so.

Very good from Root as well who's had less fireworks but has kept up with the rate and supported Hales superbly.

Hales gone now for 110 I'd bring Buttler in now and tell him to have fun, which appears to be the decision they've made as well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 09, 2017, 04:15:20 PM
Was hoping the situation would take the pressure off so Buttler could get a good knock but he's just not in good form at all, I really hope he can find something before the champions trophy because if he's in form for that I think we've got a great chance given it's in England.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 09, 2017, 08:59:19 PM
As a Cricket fan it always saddens me that Windies are a poor team. I first became obsessed with Cricket in the mid 1970s when they were at their most powerful. For 10 years or more they were a fantastic team and I idolised several of their players. I had posters of Viv Richards, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Alvin Kallicharran on my bedroom wall next to my Villa posters. I never had an England player on my wall, not even Botham. Sir Viv is my favourite cricketer of all time.

I know that their best players don't play for them because of a dispute with the governing board but the game needs a strong West Indies side competing in all formats of the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on March 09, 2017, 10:50:09 PM
As a Cricket fan it always saddens me that Windies are a poor team.
Said as much to my bro earlier.

So sad.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on March 09, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
Chris Woakes player of the series. Well deserved
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 09, 2017, 11:12:46 PM
As a Cricket fan it always saddens me that Windies are a poor team.
Said as much to my bro earlier.

So sad.

And very damaging to world cricket as well.  Saying that, if you add Gayle, the two Bravos, Sammy, Samuels, Pollard, Russell and Narine to that team and it looks a very different side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lsvilla on March 10, 2017, 12:03:43 AM
Chris Woakes player of the series. Well deserved
Gave me a training top after the game as well when I asked him for a shirt for a fellow villan. Top lad who has vastly improved his game and fits well into international level
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on March 10, 2017, 05:11:08 AM
As a Cricket fan it always saddens me that Windies are a poor team. I first became obsessed with Cricket in the mid 1970s when they were at their most powerful. For 10 years or more they were a fantastic team and I idolised several of their players. I had posters of Viv Richards, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Alvin Kallicharran on my bedroom wall next to my Villa posters. I never had an England player on my wall, not even Botham. Sir Viv is my favourite cricketer of all time.

I know that their best players don't play for them because of a dispute with the governing board but the game needs a strong West Indies side competing in all formats of the game.

Agree - they're still my 2nd team after watching them in the late 70s and early 80s. brilliant fast bowling and ex[plosive with the bat. older 'youngsters' may believe that attacking cricket started with the Aussie team of Gilchrist, Waugh, Warne et al but they didn't. A test between the two teams in their pomp would have been excellent and it would be difficult to pick a winner because of the brilliant players on both sides. But for me the West indies shade it.

I wonder what a combined team would be like...

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
M Waugh
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Logie
Warne
Holding
Marshall
Ambrose

maybe Walsh/Garner/McGrath for Logie.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on March 10, 2017, 10:51:43 AM
Chris Woakes player of the series. Well deserved

Developing into a genuine all-rounder now.

England are a proper spinner away from being a top class ODI side just now, when Bairstow can't find a place in the side you know you are looking good.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 10, 2017, 01:11:56 PM
Chris Woakes player of the series. Well deserved

Developing into a genuine all-rounder now.

England are a proper spinner away from being a top class ODI side just now, when Bairstow can't find a place in the side you know you are looking good.

Not sure about a top class spinner, as in ODI you can probably get away with one who can keep it tight for ten overs (unless you are in the sub continent).  I think what we are missing is the 'destroyer' type who can come on and bowl short, explosive spells.  Such a shame Mills has the injury problems he does, as he would be ideal.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on March 10, 2017, 01:15:54 PM
I think we're missing a couple of top class bowlers in general.  Plunkett and Rashid do an ok job but if we could replace them with a spinner who can keep it tight or take wickets and a quickie who can really scare teams then we'd be as good as anyone in the world.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on March 11, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
I think we're missing a couple of top class bowlers in general.  Plunkett and Rashid do an ok job but if we could replace them with a spinner who can keep it tight or take wickets and a quickie who can really scare teams then we'd be as good as anyone in the world.

Agree with that Paul. Rashid has a bit of that 'X-Factor', but is also quite expensive in the limited overs game.  The seam bowling is all just a bit the same and although they are fine bowlers in their own rights, we could do with something a bit different. 

That said, for the first time I can remember we'll be going into a tournament with a settled
ODI side that have been winning on a pretty regular basis.  Home conditions as well means we should really be among the favourites. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on March 14, 2017, 05:42:30 AM
As a Cricket fan it always saddens me that Windies are a poor team. I first became obsessed with Cricket in the mid 1970s when they were at their most powerful. For 10 years or more they were a fantastic team and I idolised several of their players. I had posters of Viv Richards, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Alvin Kallicharran on my bedroom wall next to my Villa posters. I never had an England player on my wall, not even Botham. Sir Viv is my favourite cricketer of all time.

I know that their best players don't play for them because of a dispute with the governing board but the game needs a strong West Indies side competing in all formats of the game.

Agree - they're still my 2nd team after watching them in the late 70s and early 80s. brilliant fast bowling and ex[plosive with the bat. older 'youngsters' may believe that attacking cricket started with the Aussie team of Gilchrist, Waugh, Warne et al but they didn't. A test between the two teams in their pomp would have been excellent and it would be difficult to pick a winner because of the brilliant players on both sides. But for me the West indies shade it.

I wonder what a combined team would be like...

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
M Waugh
S Waugh
Gilchrist
Logie
Warne
Holding
Marshall
Ambrose

maybe Walsh/Garner/McGrath for Logie.

I know you guys don't like Ponting, but he strolls into that combined side. He's miles ahead of the younger Waugh certainly, or Logie (at least just looking at his average). Likewise, I'm not sure Hayden isn't the best opener available either, as good as Greenidge and Haynes are.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on March 15, 2017, 10:22:48 AM
Forgot about Ponting in all honesty. He goes in for M Waugh. Logie was in for the times he had to come in and counter attack. but no need for him with Gilchrist. Hayden's not getting in though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on March 15, 2017, 11:41:15 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree about Hayden - distinctly better record, and he scored runs everywhere he went. Actually, there's basically no justification for taking Haynes over him apart from thinking he was a prick. This is all ignoring Langer, who isn't exactly a mile behind those three.

Hayden, Greenidge, Ponting, Richards, S Waugh, Richardson, Gilchrist, Warne, Garner, Marshall, Ambrose for me, though you can basically pick whoever you want from those fast bowlers.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on March 15, 2017, 01:27:10 PM
I know Hayden had the better average but I'd take Slater over Hayden if you want a really attacking opener.

IMO Slater had to face better opening partnerships as the Windies attack of Walsh and Ambrose, Donald and Pollock for the Saffas, Gough and Malcolm/Caddick, Shoab Aktar, Wasim and Waquar for Pakistan all in their prime.

Don't think Hayden's record in England was that flash either, a bit like Doug Walters for those of a certain vintage. Top player for sure but his era was one of playing against more modest attacks in comparison to Slater/Taylor partnership who had truly great bowling partnerships around.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 15, 2017, 06:08:28 PM
I wouldn't leave McGrath out, I'd have him ahead of Ambrose but it's a tough call.

He shades it for me because of his nagging accuracy. He was an intelligent bowler and he would pile the pressure on making the batsmen take more risks at the other end again Warne, Marshall and co.

Sir Curtly was a wonderful bowler but a player called McGrath should be in a H&V Aussie/Windies combined XI!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on March 16, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Good call for McGrath. Okay he goes in. I did consider Slater as I was always a fan but his career didn't go on for long enough. So he's dropped. Unless I hear a better option Greenidge and Haynes are still opening. Unfortunately for his fans, and I don't care either way about him Hayden still doesn't get a look in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on March 16, 2017, 10:41:23 AM
I know Hayden had the better average but I'd take Slater over Hayden if you want a really attacking opener.

IMO Slater had to face better opening partnerships as the Windies attack of Walsh and Ambrose, Donald and Pollock for the Saffas, Gough and Malcolm/Caddick, Shoab Aktar, Wasim and Waquar for Pakistan all in their prime.

Don't think Hayden's record in England was that flash either, a bit like Doug Walters for those of a certain vintage. Top player for sure but his era was one of playing against more modest attacks in comparison to Slater/Taylor partnership who had truly great bowling partnerships around.

I think it's a fair point about bowling attacks generally being better in the 90s, particularly with fast bowlers, but I don't think it's enough to cover the differences in their records. The record in England thing - well, I bet every batsman has a place where their average looks a little more spotty than usual.

Just in the Haynes v Hayden discussion though, I'm too young really to think of the 1980s being one filled with great bowlers outside of the Windies either - some individuals like Imran, Hadlee, and the tail ends of Lillee and Willis, but doesn't seem like a huge difference there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on March 16, 2017, 01:07:54 PM
I was firmly in the Hayden camp until I compared their respective records.

Desmond Haynes: http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/content/player/52047.html

Matthew Hayden: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/5616.html

It's always subjective to compare players from different eras, but Haynes' stats are remarkable given the limited amount on limited overs Cricket that was played in those days.

Interestingly enough Hayden's test record is better than Haynes record. I'd have definitely said that would be the other way around.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on April 26, 2017, 12:02:24 PM
Surrey and England all-rounder Zafar Ansari has announced his retirement from all cricket with immediate effect.

He has been with Surrey since the age of eight and recently made his Test debut for England, playing against Bangladesh in October.

"While the timing may come as a surprise, I have always maintained that cricket was just one part of my life and that I have other ambitions that I want to fulfil," said the 25-year-old.

"With that in mind, I am now exploring another career, potentially in law, and to achieve this I have to begin the process now."
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 26, 2017, 01:25:12 PM
Quite odd. I would have thought he could have balanced preparing for a career in law with cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on April 26, 2017, 02:22:24 PM
Quote
Ansari, who has a double first in politics, philosophy and sociology from Cambridge University and a Master's degree in history from Royal Holloway

I think it's safe to say that Zafar is an intelligent chap
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on April 27, 2017, 10:29:33 AM
Northants v Bears today at 1230 on Sky, for those of you lucky enough not to be at work.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on April 27, 2017, 11:32:03 AM
Northants v Bears today at 1230 on Sky, for those of you lucky enough not to be at work.

Or those that work from home and quite like some background noise/distraction.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 04, 2017, 05:58:15 PM
Pakistan batting like Warwickshire! 36 for 7.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 05, 2017, 06:34:47 AM
The New England kits for both formats of white ball cricket are horrible. As a traditionalist, it's nice to see them return to cable-knit sweaters for the test kit though.


http://store.ecb.co.uk

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on May 05, 2017, 11:28:57 AM
The New England kits for both formats of white ball cricket are horrible. As a traditionalist, it's nice to see them return to cable-knit sweaters for the test kit though.


http://store.ecb.co.uk
I saw that T20 one yesterday, a true abomination.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 07, 2017, 12:27:35 PM
Aggers just said he got a handjob referring to a hand operation.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 07, 2017, 09:16:24 PM
If the first game was a little one sided, then that today was a useful warm up exercise.  The games against South Africa will tell us more, but we look in good shape going into the ICC tournament, especially when you consider who has got to come back into the side. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 07, 2017, 09:28:52 PM
We're a fine side, we had two of our absolute key players not playing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 07, 2017, 10:45:00 PM
We're a fine side, we had two of our absolute key players not playing.

My only two concerns in the big games Paul are not having a spinner who is a threat but also keep things tight when necessary and a genuine strike bowler (though hopefully Wood can become one with a run of games).  The rest is looking in very good shape.     
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2017, 09:36:14 AM
We're a fine side, we had two of our absolute key players not playing.

I'd say 3 and they're all genuine all rounders who can bat, bowl and, most importantly are great in the field, the latter of which is a difference of 15-20 runs a game at this level and wins you matches.

Billings, Ball and Willey (who are all very good players) making way for Stokes, Ali and Woakes pushes us up another level.

The only other possible change is Bairstow for Buttler but I don't know if that makes much of a difference to us becuase they're both world class, just in slightly different ways.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 08, 2017, 11:16:20 AM
Hales
Roy
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid/Ali (dep on pitch)
Wood (if injury free) or Plunkett
Finn or Willey or Ball

That we have so many options is frightening.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2017, 01:36:37 PM
What I really like about this ODI side is that we can put out 6 frontline bowlers and still bat down to 9 or 10. That's why I'd go with Ali and Rashid instead of 1 of them and Buttler.  The issue otherwise is that Root is the 6th bowler and whilst he is a very good part-time option I'm not sure he should be the only alternative if someone has a bad day/picks up an injury when we don't need to put ourselves in that position.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 08, 2017, 06:44:41 PM
What I really like about this ODI side is that we can put out 6 frontline bowlers and still bat down to 9 or 10. That's why I'd go with Ali and Rashid instead of 1 of them and Buttler.  The issue otherwise is that Root is the 6th bowler and whilst he is a very good part-time option I'm not sure he should be the only alternative if someone has a bad day/picks up an injury when we don't need to put ourselves in that position.

I agree Ali and Rashid play for me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 11, 2017, 12:35:01 AM
What I really like about this ODI side is that we can put out 6 frontline bowlers and still bat down to 9 or 10. That's why I'd go with Ali and Rashid instead of 1 of them and Buttler.  The issue otherwise is that Root is the 6th bowler and whilst he is a very good part-time option I'm not sure he should be the only alternative if someone has a bad day/picks up an injury when we don't need to put ourselves in that position.

Buttler would play as a frontline batsman anyway Paul.  Top six of Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Buttler and Stokes is pretty settled, so I would say seven might be between Billings, Bairstow and Ali.  The only thing I would say about two spinners is that the ICC tournament is early next month and conditions won't be that spinner friendly.  We might therefore see one of Rashid or Ali and an extra seamer (Woakes and Wood probably definites so two from Willey, Finn and Ball maybe).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2017, 07:41:33 PM
I reckon it will be spinner friendly, it has been a very dry year.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2017, 08:05:43 PM
What I really like about this ODI side is that we can put out 6 frontline bowlers and still bat down to 9 or 10. That's why I'd go with Ali and Rashid instead of 1 of them and Buttler.  The issue otherwise is that Root is the 6th bowler and whilst he is a very good part-time option I'm not sure he should be the only alternative if someone has a bad day/picks up an injury when we don't need to put ourselves in that position.

Buttler would play as a frontline batsman anyway Paul.  Top six of Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Buttler and Stokes is pretty settled, so I would say seven might be between Billings, Bairstow and Ali.  The only thing I would say about two spinners is that the ICC tournament is early next month and conditions won't be that spinner friendly.  We might therefore see one of Rashid or Ali and an extra seamer (Woakes and Wood probably definites so two from Willey, Finn and Ball maybe).

For Buttler you can also sub in Bairstow (billings is a different case for me) so you can go with 6 frontline bowlers and Root and pick between Buttler or Bairstow or you can go with 5 frontline bowlers and Root and pick both.  My point is that I think we're a stronger, in most circumstances, with the extra bowler and if that means 3-4 of them only bowl 6-8 overs then that's ok, so long as the choices on the day are sensible.  It's not often that our ODI side sees someone like Roy, Hales or Root left hanging at one end whilst wickets fall so I'm not convinced the value of the extra batsman.  I honestly believe that the only reason there's even a discussion to be had is because leaving out one Bairstow or Buttler feels wrong.  I'd love to fit them both in but I just don't see how, if he wasn't such a good captain I'd be tempted to suggest Bairstow at 4 ahead of Morgan but even that means leaving out a very good ODI batsman.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 11, 2017, 08:09:05 PM
The temptation of that extra bat is that nowadays 350 is a score that is gettable. Therefore, batting deep is more desirable than playing bowlers that are good with the bat. Depends on the conditions on the day of course but the thought of getting up to 400 is no longer a pipe dream for many teams which is why I concentrate on the batting side first and filling the bowlers next.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2017, 08:46:32 PM
I think think the team I suggested is easily capable of 350+ that's the point really, I don't think we lose as many runs as we gain by being able to mix up the bowling a little more if someone is struggling.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 11, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
And given how shite Villa and Warwickshire are how refreshing it is to see England having problems like whether to be happy with 350 or 400+ in 50 over games.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on May 11, 2017, 09:11:15 PM
To be a little controversial I would drop Morgan and bat Bairstowe at four. I would rather have Bairstowe coming in at 13/2 than Morgan Buttler  or Stokes. I think Billings is suited at 7.

I would play Willey come what may, he's left handed and swings the white ball regularly, something none of the right handed seamers do in a regular basis

So

Hales
Roy
Root
Bairstowe
Stokes
Buttler
Billings/Rashid (Rashid bats at 8 and Ali at 7)
Ali
Woakes
Wiley
Wood
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 11, 2017, 09:48:14 PM
To be a little controversial I would drop Morgan and bat Bairstowe at four. I would rather have Bairstowe coming in at 13/2 than Morgan Buttler  or Stokes. I think Billings is suited at 7.

I would play Willey come what may, he's left handed and swings the white ball regularly, something none of the right handed seamers do in a regular basis

So

Hales
Roy
Root
Bairstowe
Stokes
Buttler
Billings/Rashid (Rashid bats at 8 and Ali at 7)
Ali
Woakes
Wiley
Wood

So who is your Captain?

I think Morgan is a great one day Captain and leads his team well. He has that quality that Vaughan had in that he makes things happen with intelligent field placings and sensible bowling changes. He is also one of our most reliable nurdlers. For all of your big hitters, you need a reliable batsman to score ugly runs. Particularly at 13-2.

Bairstow is a great player but maybe we need to give him a rest from some Cricket, I can see the same happening with Root.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 11, 2017, 10:55:28 PM
All about opinions of course, but for me Morgan and Buttler are cemented in at four and five in the side.  For me, it comes to the choice of whether we go with two spinners or not really.  Ali at seven is a good option, so it's probably down to whether Rashid plays as well. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on May 12, 2017, 06:31:13 AM
To be a little controversial I would drop Morgan and bat Bairstowe at four. I would rather have Bairstowe coming in at 13/2 than Morgan Buttler  or Stokes. I think Billings is suited at 7.

I would play Willey come what may, he's left handed and swings the white ball regularly, something none of the right handed seamers do in a regular basis

So

Hales
Roy
Root
Bairstowe
Stokes
Buttler
Billings/Rashid (Rashid bats at 8 and Ali at 7)
Ali
Woakes
Wiley
Wood

So who is your Captain?

I think Morgan is a great one day Captain and leads his team well. He has that quality that Vaughan had in that he makes things happen with intelligent field placings and sensible bowling changes. He is also one of our most reliable nurdlers. For all of your big hitters, you need a reliable batsman to score ugly runs. Particularly at 13-2.

Bairstow is a great player but maybe we need to give him a rest from some Cricket, I can see the same happening with Root.



Simple answer to the captaincy question is Buttler. Of course he captained the side with some success in Bangladesh. We have the England test captain and vice captain in the side for insurance purposes.

As for Morgan steadying the ship and scoring ugly runs before his 100 in January of this year in the last 20 ODI innings proir to that he'd got past 50 twice coming in at 283/3 and 35/2 respectively.


It's all about opinions as has been said, and in my opinion Morgan is the weakest link in a strong batting line up. Whilst a decent on the field captain he is not irreplaceable. He has done more off the field by the change in mind set and approach to the game by an England team. That approach has been established now.

Nice problems to have though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 12, 2017, 08:03:04 AM
Morgan should stay he's in form and he's been a key figure in England's turnaround.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on May 12, 2017, 08:15:10 AM
I think there is little doubt Morgan will stay for the tournament. However I don't think that he figures in our strongest line up in my view.

I agree he's been instrumental in the turn around both on and off the pitch. However i just think he takes the place of a better batsman in the team. Bairstowe should be in there but as we stand at the moment he cannot be squeezed into the side if Morgan plays.




Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 12, 2017, 11:33:39 AM
I think there is little doubt Morgan will stay for the tournament. However I don't think that he figures in our strongest line up in my view.

I agree he's been instrumental in the turn around both on and off the pitch. However i just think he takes the place of a better batsman in the team. Bairstowe should be in there but as we stand at the moment he cannot be squeezed into the side if Morgan plays.


I think the team would be weaker without Morgan's leadership. He kept the captaincy after choosing not to tour Bangladesh and I think he will lead us in to the next 50 over World Cup in 2019. He's an intelligent Captain and appears to know what makes the individuals tick. You could select another hitter at the top of the order but a nurdler like Morgan is vital to the success of the side in all conditions. Sometimes it's the ugly runs that win games not the power shots from the likes Hales, Roy and Buttler.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 14, 2017, 10:59:31 PM
Amazingly tense end to the Windies Pakistan test. Pakistan win with one over to go. Misbah and Younus bow out with a win. An incredibly stupid thrash  by Gabriel at Yasir's last ball to play on.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Rotterdam on May 21, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
This is the first year I've really followed the IPL and it's been ace.
The final on SKY now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2017, 05:45:17 PM
This is the first year I've really followed the IPL and it's been ace.
The final on SKY now.

Last year I watched it passively, as my wife became inexplicably hooked during her illness. This year, I've watched actively due to the English players and supported KKR for Chris Woakes (bowled well, hardly batted), though following RPS was fun dipped to Stokes batting/bowling/catching exploits.

Final's turning into a bit of a damp squib though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2017, 07:05:02 PM
More excitingly, 11 off 6 balls for RPS.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
7 off 3 Johnson (spit) on a hat trick.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 21, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
Mumbai by one run. Good stuff.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 21, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
Scotland beat Sri Lanka. Doesn't count as an ODI as stadium doesn't have international status, but impressive nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on May 21, 2017, 09:43:44 PM
That's very good. Was it Sri Lankan first XI or near enough first XI? Either case impressive.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on May 21, 2017, 10:07:20 PM
Pretty much, I think. It's a warm up for the Champions Trophy so they'd all have been players who are at least under consideration for a starting spot.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on May 24, 2017, 01:24:59 PM
Should be a good game today, England back to full strength now the IPL players have returned against a SA side with world class players.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 24, 2017, 01:42:58 PM
Should be a good game today, England back to full strength now the IPL players have returned against a SA side with world class players.

This will be a good test for us and should let us gauge what chances we have in the Champions Trophy.

Saffers won the toss and have put us in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 24, 2017, 01:54:21 PM
So this is the 11 I'd go with (although as I said Buttler and Bairstow is a coin toss) and I hope they show why this is the right balance for us.  I love us having 6 genuine frontline bowlers and Root in reserve, that's the real advantage to having so many genuine all rounders.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 24, 2017, 02:06:39 PM
England playing today? Shiiiiiit - missed that. Well i haven't but I would've.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on May 24, 2017, 02:37:03 PM
After losing Jason Roy cheaply England progressing quite nicely at 47/1 off 7

Incidentally is anyone interested in 1 ticket for Friday 2nd June at Edgbaston for New Zealand v Australia....would ideally suit a drinker
as seat is Block 9 Row W Seat 13 basically just outside the door to the David Heath suite. Price £50.That is actual ticket price.
The only downside though is you will be sat next to me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on May 24, 2017, 03:44:04 PM
Root gone playing at a bouncer.

England 122-3 off 22 overs.

Stokes new man in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 24, 2017, 05:51:54 PM
339-6 is a decent effort. Hales whacked them at the start, Morgan in the middle and Moeen at the end.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 24, 2017, 08:18:24 PM
Nice bowling from Plunkett. I'd still have ZAF still slight favourites from here though. de Villiers quite clearly crucial.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 24, 2017, 08:20:16 PM
Morgan and Mo showed their value.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on May 24, 2017, 08:37:15 PM
Could end up being a close finish.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on May 24, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
AB out, England should win from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 24, 2017, 09:07:12 PM
Win? We should walk this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 24, 2017, 11:22:51 PM
Excellent all round performance there. Put together a couple of good stands and had the batting depth to be able to shrug off a couple of cheap wickets and still get the now seemingly mandatory 10 per over off the last 10. Saffers are normally better in the field mind.
Bowling was disciplined as well, when a side is 140-1, especially one with batsmen as destructive as SA, it could have been easy to panic in a desperate attempt to get wickets, we didn't.

We have a definite chance in the Champions Trophy.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 25, 2017, 07:03:40 AM
I think this side is perfectly balanced. If we can just get Roy into form we'll be flying.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on May 25, 2017, 08:22:12 AM
Very good win against good opposition. I know i have said Morgan shouldn't be in the side but yesterday he proved me wrong with that performance. I still think he is suspect under pressure but you cannot argue with the batting display yesterday. 100/2 gave him the platform to perform.

 Think they'll rest Stokes for the rest of the series?   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on May 25, 2017, 08:29:13 AM
Not so sure, but there's no harm in throwing Bairstow in in the final game, or Billings, if we're 2 up.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on May 25, 2017, 08:47:04 AM
Stokes seemed to be carrying an injury in the IPL from what i saw. He only bowled two overs yesterday and the [relatively] simple catch he dropped seems to all go to show hes not 100%. A simple three game series I might rest him for the last game but with the tournament coming up immediately on its heels i think they may leave him out for games two and three. We will see. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 25, 2017, 10:04:49 AM
Stokes seemed to be carrying an injury in the IPL from what i saw. He only bowled two overs yesterday and the [relatively] simple catch he dropped seems to all go to show hes not 100%. A simple three game series I might rest him for the last game but with the tournament coming up immediately on its heels i think they may leave him out for games two and three. We will see. 

I agree, he seemed slightly off with the bat as well, he just seemed uncomfortable.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 25, 2017, 12:17:53 PM
Stokes is very much needed in the tournament, so they should be protecting him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 26, 2017, 12:59:32 AM
Stokes is very much needed in the tournament, so they should be protecting him.

Agree, but him missing does alter the balance of the side a bit be cause you lose his bowling.  Bairstow or Billings could replace his batting at six, but you would have to lose that fourth seamer or second spinner.

Another good win the other day though and we do look a strong side going into this tournament. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on May 26, 2017, 11:52:28 AM
If anyone looking for a cricket fix this weekend there are three ICC trophy warm up games at Edgbaston this weekend with:
Bangladesh v Pakiston Saturday 27/05
Australia v Pakistan Bank Holiday monday 29/05
New Zealand v Sri Lanka Tuesday 30th
All of these games commence at10:30 and is free admission to Bears members and are only £10 or £15 to public which is great value,
and just £1 for U16's.
I will certainly be going Mon & Tue especially if sun out. There are a few isolated showers but.....still worth it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: adrenachrome on May 26, 2017, 01:01:10 PM
If anyone looking for a cricket fix this weekend there are three ICC trophy warm up games at Edgbaston this weekend with:
Bangladesh v Pakiston Saturday 27/05
Australia v Pakistan Bank Holiday monday 29/05
New Zealand v Sri Lanka Tuesday 30th
All of these games commence at10:30 and is free admission to Bears members and are only £10 or £15 to public which is great value,
and just £1 for U16's.
I will certainly be going Mon & Tue especially if sun out. There are a few isolated showers but.....still worth it.

Thanks for that info PGW. I had no idea that these games were on, and I must get 3 or 4 emails per week from the club!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on May 26, 2017, 05:42:31 PM
If anyone looking for a cricket fix this weekend there are three ICC trophy warm up games at Edgbaston this weekend with:
Bangladesh v Pakiston Saturday 27/05
Australia v Pakistan Bank Holiday monday 29/05
New Zealand v Sri Lanka Tuesday 30th
All of these games commence at10:30 and is free admission to Bears members and are only £10 or £15 to public which is great value,
and just £1 for U16's.
I will certainly be going Mon & Tue especially if sun out. There are a few isolated showers but.....still worth it.

Thanks for that info PGW. I had no idea that these games were on, and I must get 3 or 4 emails per week from the club!

http://www.edgbaston.com/news/spectator-guide-icc-champions-trophy-warm-up-games/

Details
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 26, 2017, 09:59:22 PM
Excellent, should be able to do the Tuesday.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 27, 2017, 10:28:15 AM
Looking forward to a day in the garden with TMS on the radio. It's sunny now and so the forecast rain can feck right off.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on May 27, 2017, 11:16:54 AM
England lost toss and have been put in. Currently 12/03.4

No Woakes...injured ..Quad strain not too serious but rested as a consequence. Jake Ball in to replace him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on May 27, 2017, 11:18:10 AM
12/1
Roy b Rabada 8
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Meanwood Villa on May 27, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
Bangladesh looking at a big score at Edgbaston
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 27, 2017, 02:11:38 PM
Stokes 100 off 77 balls. Hashim Amla dropped him on 0
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 27, 2017, 02:15:32 PM
Stokes 100 off 77 balls. Hashim Amla dropped him on 0
And out for 101
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: curiousorange on May 27, 2017, 02:52:03 PM
England will be pig sick if they don't win the Champions Trophy. They're all over SA here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2017, 06:52:53 PM
Incredible last over from Wood to win the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villafirst on May 27, 2017, 06:55:20 PM
England to win without Woakes and only 3 overs from Stokes is some effort! Great finish and we'll done to Mark Wood!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 27, 2017, 07:30:45 PM
This team really has something.

What a wonderful last over from Mark Wood, he handled the pressure so well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2017, 08:58:07 PM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 27, 2017, 09:39:50 PM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.

I think so long as we have 2 out of Stokes, Moeen and Woakes we're in a good position because they all 'bring it' in all aspects of the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on May 27, 2017, 09:55:33 PM
Great win again, I wish my team had won today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2017, 10:32:40 PM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.

I think so long as we have 2 out of Stokes, Moeen and Woakes we're in a good position because they all 'bring it' in all aspects of the game.

Woakes and Ali are very important, but Stokes is arguably the best all rounder in the world. We're a very different side without him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on May 27, 2017, 10:41:30 PM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.

I think so long as we have 2 out of Stokes, Moeen and Woakes we're in a good position because they all 'bring it' in all aspects of the game.

Woakes and Ali are very important, but Stokes is arguably the best all rounder in the world. We're a very different side without him.

I still don't think He's a good enough bowler to deserve that title.  I think the gap between him and Woakes is very small with Stokes as the batting all rounder and Woakes as the bowling all rounder.  Ali is a tough one because with both bat and ball he can be very inconsistent, at his best he's world class with both but he seems to lack something to take the final step to genuine greatness, he's still a seriously important player for England though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2017, 11:03:54 PM
I like Woakes and think he's made himself a really important player, but Stokes has more of that intangible x-factor and has more potential for growth. When he's not playing for England they lose a huge amount of balance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 28, 2017, 01:00:01 AM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.

I think so long as we have 2 out of Stokes, Moeen and Woakes we're in a good position because they all 'bring it' in all aspects of the game.

Woakes and Ali are very important, but Stokes is arguably the best all rounder in the world. We're a very different side without him.

Agree, as having Stokes out upsets the whole balance of the side.  Woakes out just means moving Rashid to 8, Plunkett to 9 and bringing in an extra bowler.  Similarly, no Ali could mean playing an extra batsman at seven and using Root as a second spin option or moving Woakes to seven, the others up one place and bringing in another spinner.  The team probably wouldn't be a strong if either of those two were absent but the make up of the balance of the side wouldn't be too impacted.   Losing Stokes would completely unbalance the side. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 28, 2017, 08:03:26 AM
Stokes is so important for this side I'd rotate in next game.

I think so long as we have 2 out of Stokes, Moeen and Woakes we're in a good position because they all 'bring it' in all aspects of the game.

Woakes and Ali are very important, but Stokes is arguably the best all rounder in the world. We're a very different side without him.

Agree, as having Stokes out upsets the whole balance of the side.  Woakes out just means moving Rashid to 8, Plunkett to 9 and bringing in an extra bowler.  Similarly, no Ali could mean playing an extra batsman at seven and using Root as a second spin option or moving Woakes to seven, the others up one place and bringing in another spinner.  The team probably wouldn't be a strong if either of those two were absent but the make up of the balance of the side wouldn't be too impacted.   Losing Stokes would completely unbalance the side. 

I thought we missed Woakes yesterday. He is an economical bowler at this level and he applies control and bowls wicket taking balls not just in the power plays but also during the rest of his spell. For me, he has become the perfect one day bowler; economy, wickets and control.

The Saffers must be kicking themselves, the game was there for the taking and they threw it away. For a side with so many class players they do seem to struggle to finish games off.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 28, 2017, 08:44:33 AM
We definitely missed Woakes as he's made himself a key player in the side, likewise I think Ali is a key player too. But I think if I were to say who is the most important player to the side it'd be Stokes for me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 28, 2017, 08:53:03 AM
We definitely missed Woakes as he's made himself a key player in the side, likewise I think Ali is a key player too. But I think if I were to say who is the most important player to the side it'd be Stokes for me.

Reports this morning that he's having a scan on his knee. Now that might be precautionary but it doesn't bode well for the Champions Trophy.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 28, 2017, 06:13:09 PM
Ali, Stokes and Woakes have been rested ahead of tomorrow's ODI with Stephen Finn, Liam Dawson and Toby Roland-Jones called up as replacements.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on May 29, 2017, 01:29:49 AM
We definitely missed Woakes as he's made himself a key player in the side, likewise I think Ali is a key player too. But I think if I were to say who is the most important player to the side it'd be Stokes for me.

Agree.  Woakes and Ali are better than any of the replacements out there, bug replacing them doesn't alter the balance of the side too much.  Replacing Stokes definitely would.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 29, 2017, 10:43:40 AM
The Saffers have one the toss and we are batting.

Wood, Plunkett, Stokes and Ali are rested/injured and Bairstow, Willey, Finn and Roland-Jones play.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 29, 2017, 11:23:20 AM
A good toss for SA to win, England 15-4 off 4.1 overs.

Hales played a very poor shot, a waft outside off stump but the other three were good balls on a cloudy morning when batting at Lords can be difficult.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 29, 2017, 11:27:04 AM
20-5........
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on May 29, 2017, 11:31:17 AM
20-6.........car crash cricket and Rabada on a hat trick.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 29, 2017, 11:33:53 AM
At this rate they could play two games today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on May 29, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
Bairstow and TRJ leading a fight back

Clean forgot about the game. I could have listened driving back from London today
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2017, 01:58:16 PM
20-6.........car crash cricket and Rabada on a hat trick.

That is the point at which I switched on the TV and promptly switched it off again. A decent recovery but it will need a major screw up for SA to lose from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 07:54:01 AM
Need to hit the ground running today. Bangladesh will be a dangerous side at the Oval.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 01, 2017, 08:13:59 AM
Nah - we'll win quite convincingly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on June 01, 2017, 10:09:04 AM
England win the toss and will bowl first.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 10:35:03 AM
Seems odd that we have dropped Rashid after he's been a mainstay of the side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: shirley_villan on June 01, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
Have got two spare tickets for the Aus-NZ game at Edgbasotn tomorrow if anybody wants them? 40 each face value, or make me an offer. Can meet you there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on June 01, 2017, 11:27:56 AM
Have got two spare tickets for the Aus-NZ game at Edgbasotn tomorrow if anybody wants them? 40 each face value, or make me an offer. Can meet you there.
I also still have one but is £50...Block 9
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on June 01, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
Bangladesh 57/1 13
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 11:48:11 AM
Woakes potentially having a side strain is a big blow.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
We're struggling a bit here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on June 01, 2017, 12:23:05 PM
Tamim showing his class again for the Tigers, need to get him out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 01, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
This shows why I think Woakes is so important, we're missing him badly here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 01:09:14 PM
This is going to be tough, our issue of taking wickets has come to the fore. I don't think dropping Rashid, regardless of Bangladesh's perceived weakness against pace, was a smart call.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on June 01, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
277/5 46.4 wickets started to tumble.

Should still get over the 300 mark but shouldn't worry England too much....fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 02:02:59 PM
England will need to bat well here. When you're chasing 300 you always need to.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 01, 2017, 02:04:07 PM
losing the 2 set batsmen in consecutive balls was a massive blow to them, it's probably cost them 15-20 runs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on June 01, 2017, 02:05:21 PM
305/6 50
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 02:48:04 PM
Roy gone, poor start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 06:09:37 PM
We've chased this well. Hopefully Root's injury isn't too bad and Woakes is better than it appears.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 01, 2017, 06:12:20 PM
Can't grumble at that chase.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 01, 2017, 10:49:39 PM
Can't grumble at that chase.

Nope, no real worries at all about the top seven, although Roy's form is becoming a bit of a concern.  The bowling is a bit of a worry if Woakes and Stokes are injured and I founded the decision to drop Rashid a bit puzzling seeing as he's played a lot recently.

On another note Tamim really is a top class batsman.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 01, 2017, 11:40:14 PM
Roy will be fine. He's a good player, with a lot of talent, he just needs to find his game again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2017, 10:49:33 AM
Woakes confirmed as out of the tournament.  That's a massive blow, I wonder what they'll do for a replacement, maybe just Bring Rashid back in and keep Ball in the side but I'm not sure that's a good idea.  Personally I'd go with Willey.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 02, 2017, 10:52:39 AM
It'll be Finn. It usually is.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2017, 11:20:52 AM
Finn would be my second choice.  The key thing is wee need to pick a wicket taker.  Willey gets something in the first power play and Finn always has a wicket in him.  Ball just doesn't give me thaqt confidence.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 02, 2017, 01:02:18 PM
Finn would be my second choice.  The key thing is wee need to pick a wicket taker.  Willey gets something in the first power play and Finn always has a wicket in him.  Ball just doesn't give me thaqt confidence.

Agree Paul.  As a left armer, Willey offers something a bit different and his batting would surely make him as near as a like for like replacement for Woakes as we will get.  The seam attack is all a bit samey at the moment.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 02, 2017, 01:04:48 PM
Broad was left out of Nottinghamshire's side for their County Championship match today, maybe...?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on June 02, 2017, 01:16:05 PM
Roland-Jones for me ...........He outbowled Finn in the game on Monday
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Colhint on June 02, 2017, 01:29:16 PM
To be honest I think Woakes out has ruled us out of winning it. We need wickets and he's the man
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2017, 01:48:51 PM
Roland-Jones for me ...........He outbowled Finn in the game on Monday

I like him but I'm not sure bringing someone in for their 2nd cap during a very competitive competition is the right idea, it's a very different situation to bowling in a dead rubber at the end of series that's already been won.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 02, 2017, 05:19:48 PM
I am sure they will just drop in Rashid unless it looks like the pitch will do something. How about chucking Bairstow in for Roy?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 02, 2017, 06:29:03 PM
Abandoned, no result. Pretty disappointing. It didn't look to be raining too heavily when they went off, had they played one more over... there would have been a winner on D/L. Shame the umpires were so quick to race off.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 02, 2017, 06:32:25 PM
I am sure they will just drop in Rashid unless it looks like the pitch will do something. How about chucking Bairstow in for Roy?

Billings has opened a few times in the past so I think it would be him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2017, 07:33:07 PM
I wouldn't be dropping Roy now. Yes he's going through a bad run, but he's shown what he can do before, which thus far Billings hasn't and I'm not sure about Bairstow opening. My view is we're in a tournament now and we should be as much as is possible picking the team that has performed in the last year or so.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2017, 08:48:37 PM
I wouldn't be dropping Roy now. Yes he's going through a bad run, but he's shown what he can do before, which thus far Billings hasn't and I'm not sure about Bairstow opening. My view is we're in a tournament now and we should be as much as is possible picking the team that has performed in the last year or so.

Agreed, that's why I think I'd favour Willey over Ball as well (and bring back Rashid) because i want people who been heavily involved in making us the pre-tournament favourites.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 02, 2017, 11:52:05 PM
I wouldn't be dropping Roy now. Yes he's going through a bad run, but he's shown what he can do before, which thus far Billings hasn't and I'm not sure about Bairstow opening. My view is we're in a tournament now and we should be as much as is possible picking the team that has performed in the last year or so.

I agree about Roy, but Billings has had some decent knocks recently and at opener too.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2017, 11:56:02 PM
I wouldn't be dropping Roy now. Yes he's going through a bad run, but he's shown what he can do before, which thus far Billings hasn't and I'm not sure about Bairstow opening. My view is we're in a tournament now and we should be as much as is possible picking the team that has performed in the last year or so.

I agree about Roy, but Billings has had some decent knocks recently and at opener too.

The problem is that dropping someone who has bene a regular for 18 months after the fist game of the tournament looks a bit knee-jerk and doesn't send out a great message.  On that basis I'd stick with him for now.  If he doesn't manage a score in the next 2 (and we get through) then his place for the semi should be reviewed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 03, 2017, 12:14:20 AM
I wouldn't be dropping Roy now. Yes he's going through a bad run, but he's shown what he can do before, which thus far Billings hasn't and I'm not sure about Bairstow opening. My view is we're in a tournament now and we should be as much as is possible picking the team that has performed in the last year or so.

I agree about Roy, but Billings has had some decent knocks recently and at opener too.

The problem is that dropping someone who has bene a regular for 18 months after the fist game of the tournament looks a bit knee-jerk and doesn't send out a great message.  On that basis I'd stick with him for now.  If he doesn't manage a score in the next 2 (and we get through) then his place for the semi should be reviewed.

I'd go with that Paul, especially as Roy has shown good form over a fair period of time.  That's what puzzled me a bit about Rashid being left out, as he has been a regular for some time now.   The only thing I can think is that they thought Bangladesh might weaker against seam bowling, but they coped pretty well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 03, 2017, 10:32:22 AM
Malinger the Slinger back for Sri Lanka against the Saffers at the Oval. I thought he'd retired from international cricket years ago!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 03, 2017, 11:24:11 AM
Malinger the Slinger back for Sri Lanka against the Saffers at the Oval. I thought he'd retired from international cricket years ago!

He should have been retired forcibly from the start, the cheating bastard.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 03, 2017, 11:30:25 AM
In all my life of playing cricket watching cricket I have never understood how he has been allowed to bowl😨 He just chucks it and gets away with it😡
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 03, 2017, 12:11:39 PM
I know, his action is like a round arm Baseball pitcher.

I've always thought that the ICC were as flexible as Murali's elbow when looking at such bowling actions, particularly as they didn't want to upset the powerful Asian Cricket boards. If Malinger or Murali had been English, Australian or even West Indian they'd have been forced to remodel their respective actions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 04, 2017, 09:00:44 AM
Off to Edgbaston now to watch the local derby. This is quite unique as probably the only place where both teams will have an equal size crowd cheering them on. Let's hop the fans behave and I am wearing an England shirt😟
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 04, 2017, 09:18:47 AM
Off to Edgbaston now to watch the local derby. This is quite unique as probably the only place where both teams will have an equal size crowd cheering them on. Let's hop the fans behave and I am wearing an England shirt😟

Enjoy your day, the atmosphere should be electric.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 04, 2017, 10:10:28 AM
Finn has been confirmed as the replacement for Woakes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 04, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
As sure as night follows day.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 06, 2017, 03:00:23 PM
You don't know with the scores you see these days, but 310 is a decent total.  It also looks gettable if some of their top order click. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2017, 04:14:58 PM
Today highlights why I'd have had Willey in ahead of Ball, you could've trusted him to smack a few extra runs at the end and he'd have put a lot more pressure on their top order at the start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 06, 2017, 04:16:54 PM
Today highlights why I'd have had Willey in ahead of Ball, you could've trusted him to smack a few extra runs at the end and he'd have put a lot more pressure on their top order at the start.

He is more of a like-for-like replacement for Woakes.  Also offers something different being a left armer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2017, 04:17:03 PM
That said I should acknowledge that Ball did open the bowling well in this innings so i might be being harsh, it's the golden duck that worries me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2017, 05:11:17 PM
Think we're in a spot of bother here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 05:16:11 PM
We need to get Williamson smartish.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2017, 05:25:01 PM
Yeah this game is slipping away from us fast.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2017, 05:32:09 PM
That's a big wicket but need a clatter of a couple now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 06, 2017, 05:35:22 PM
Big wicket that as those two were more than capable of seeing them home.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
Another over or two from Wood and Ball to see if we can nick another wicket or two I reckon.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2017, 05:49:43 PM
Huge wicket to get Taylor, poor shot given the situation.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 05:57:55 PM
Their middle order didn't do a lot against the Aussie so hopefully we can bag a couple more and keep it tight for a few overs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:07:21 PM
There goes another
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:19:30 PM
And another.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:28:23 PM
Phwoar. I love a stumping from a wide! Game is up here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:36:03 PM
Anderson gone!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:43:14 PM
And yet another. Start the car......
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 06, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
Boom!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on June 06, 2017, 06:57:46 PM
Great bowling from England today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2017, 07:30:15 PM
Super win that. Excellent bowling and good to see Rash back in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 06, 2017, 08:17:50 PM
Another good win and a good, tight bowling performance.  Semi final already secured ahead of the Aussies at Edgbaston.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on June 07, 2017, 08:32:39 AM
Great win, New Zealand aren't a bad team. Being so gracious I only mentioned the cricket once at work today (although it was in a meeting with all staff ;)).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2017, 07:08:20 PM
Super performance by the Sri Lankan's. That group is wide open, basically two quarter finals.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 09, 2017, 06:29:23 AM
Super performance by the Sri Lankan's. That group is wide open, basically two quarter finals.

This competition is wide open.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 10, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
Aussie off to a good start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 10, 2017, 11:38:37 AM
Not good so far. If they keep going this way 330 is possible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 10, 2017, 12:05:52 PM
Disappointing this, guarantee England will lose this then win the sporting contest that I want them to lose, later this evening.

Elsewhere, Afghanistan pump the Windies in an ODI, eighteen-year-old spinner Rashid Khan takes seven for eighteen.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 10, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
Well we are only playing Scotland later. If you want a comparison it would be like England losing in the cricket to someone like Scotland.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 02:35:44 PM
Not a great start to chase Roy gone and used our review. Rashid bowled excellently.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 02:41:20 PM
Hales gone.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 10, 2017, 02:44:28 PM
Not a great start to chase Roy gone and used our review. Rashid bowled excellently.

I thought that was a very poor review.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 02:54:25 PM
Morgan on the move and dropped.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 03:00:41 PM
Root gone. We're in some trouble here now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 03:03:54 PM
Off for rain, bad timing for the wicket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on June 10, 2017, 05:07:43 PM
Keep hearing dropping Roy for Bairstow being discussed and whether Bairstow could open. Surely it would make sense to have Root open as he's been coming in early anyway?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 05:08:39 PM
Stokes and Morgan have been class.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: four fornicholl on June 10, 2017, 05:23:06 PM
Fkn hell, we need to send these convicts packing. They'll come back to haunt us in the final.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 10, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
Great ton from Stokes but lousy weather!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 06:28:17 PM
Stokes and Morgan were magnificent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: four fornicholl on June 10, 2017, 06:44:42 PM
I love my cricket, but the weather has fkd this tourno up big style.
Could so easily been us out.









Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 06:50:12 PM
That's a bit of a stretch. Weather didn't cost Australia the game today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 06:58:29 PM
England have to win this tournament. I don't care what the rankings say England are the best team in the world.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 10, 2017, 07:18:22 PM
England have to win this tournament. I don't care what the rankings say England are the best team in the world.

I agree, Roy in reasonable form, Stokes fully fit and Woakes fit and we'd be even further ahead.  In our own conditions we are the best.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2017, 07:20:47 PM
England have to win this tournament. I don't care what the rankings say England are the best team in the world.

Another very good win.  Thought Wood and the spinners in particular bowled very well and to think Woakes is also missing it was an impressive bowling performance.  The batting line up is very strong and even when we were three down and struggling, there was still plenty of batting left to come.  Woakes for Plunkett and a fully fit Tymal Mills for Ball (we could well see that side in the upcoming T20s) and it would be a very, very good side.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 10, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
Eng v SA
Sri Lanka v BGD

Eng v Sri Lanka final
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2017, 07:56:49 PM
Won't happen it looks like short of something remarkable England will play the winner of Pakistan vs SL.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 11, 2017, 07:35:55 AM
It's a pity the game ended as it did, still it's always good to beat the Crims and send them home.

They've been moaning about the weather robbing them of results but they were likely to have lost two of the abandoned games anyway so they would still be picking their duty free at the airport.

The turn around in our white ball cricket since the last World Cup is really astonishing. They now play without fear and with a great deal of panache. We surely must win this tournament.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2017, 01:16:15 PM
Not like the Saffers to choke in a knock out game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 11, 2017, 01:34:47 PM
Not like the Saffers to choke in a knock out game.

Every tournament......116-1 to 184-9 including a comedic run out.

They really are perennial chockers.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 11, 2017, 06:50:47 PM
It's strange how Australia, New Zealand and South Africa have been knocked  out of the tournament whilst the teams from the sub-continent are progressing through with one guaranteed a final place? I would have thought the conditions in England green pitches  etc more favoured the Southern Hemisphere teams🤔
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 11, 2017, 10:21:44 PM
Wet pitches are a bit of a leveller.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 11, 2017, 11:10:24 PM
Wet pitches are a bit of a leveller.

The drainage systems at grounds like Edgbaston and the Oval alongside hover covers mean that the squares are kept dry. That was best illustrated by the India-Pakistan game at Edgbaston last weekend. There were several rain interruptions but once the rain stopped they were back playing in no time at all.

The Crims were poor in two of their three games and deserved to go out at the group stage. The Kiwis faced a shoot out against Bangladesh and they lost. The two teams that deserved to qualify from that group went through. In the other group the Saffers chocked as they always do.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 12, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
Not like the Saffers to choke in a knock out game.

Every tournament......116-1 to 184-9 including a comedic run out.

They really are perennial chockers.

It still needed the Third Umpire because they had to figure out which player was back into the crease first :)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40240500
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2017, 07:08:40 PM
Great game and Pakistan it is then. Always tricky but we should have too much.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2017, 07:33:43 PM
England have announced the t20 squad for the SA series, there's a lot of inexperience in there.

England squad

Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire) – available for the first two matches of the series
Sam Billings (Kent)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, captain)
Craig Overton (Somerset) – available for the last two matches of the series
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Jason Roy (Surrey)
David Willey (Yorkshire)
Mark Wood (Durham) – available for the first match of the series
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villafirst on June 12, 2017, 08:25:34 PM
A pity England playing a semi-final in Cardiff and not their favourite ground.....Edgbaston.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on June 13, 2017, 08:37:26 AM
England have announced the t20 squad for the SA series, there's a lot of inexperience in there.

England squad

Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire) – available for the first two matches of the series
Sam Billings (Kent)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, captain)
Craig Overton (Somerset) – available for the last two matches of the series
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Jason Roy (Surrey)
David Willey (Yorkshire)
Mark Wood (Durham) – available for the first match of the series
Woakes apart we have not one Warwickshire player within a million miles of any senior England squad. Not even the Lions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 13, 2017, 11:58:08 AM
England have announced the t20 squad for the SA series, there's a lot of inexperience in there.

England squad

Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire) – available for the first two matches of the series
Sam Billings (Kent)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Mason Crane (Hampshire)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Liam Dawson (Hampshire)
Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex, captain)
Craig Overton (Somerset) – available for the last two matches of the series
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Jason Roy (Surrey)
David Willey (Yorkshire)
Mark Wood (Durham) – available for the first match of the series

Full strength T20 team is pretty much the 50 over side plus Tymal Mills isn't it?

Hales, Roy, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Mills. 

Suppose we need to look at some other options though. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2017, 07:15:46 PM
Sounds like Jonny B will open tomorrow. Probably the right call, as I think Roy needs a break. I still think he's a key player for the World Cup, but he needs to clear his head.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 13, 2017, 11:39:47 PM
Sounds like Jonny B will open tomorrow. Probably the right call, as I think Roy needs a break. I still think he's a key player for the World Cup, but he needs to clear his head.

Agree Paul.  Probably needs a bit of time in the middle away from the spotlight of international cricket to get his game sorted. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 12:10:14 PM
We're not exactly racing along here, sounds like a sluggish pitch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 12:36:48 PM
Not going to set much of a score here, I'm hoping it's the pitch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 12:46:30 PM
We need a big 18 overs here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2017, 01:15:00 PM
Well, England are making a right feck-up of this
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 01:24:30 PM
Yep this is going pretty terribly, we need a huge bowling performance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2017, 01:31:20 PM
The consolation here is that Pakistan look like a very weak batting line up.  We need to just go for it a bit now, 240-250 gives us a decent chance still.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 01:34:05 PM
Yeah we need the mid 200s to stand a chance. I'm really hoping it's the pitch, but Pakistan have bowled well and we'll need to bowl exceptionally to defend whatever total we set.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2017, 01:35:52 PM
Some interesting comments from Woakes  regarding the fact that England do not practice running between the wickets, communicating with the other batsman or sliding/bat grounding.

This surprised me. I'd have thought that coaches/players would be looking for every advantage possible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2017, 02:14:35 PM
That's about 30 short of what I'd have been wanting as a minimum, we'll need to bowl brilliantly to save this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 02:20:15 PM
Yep that was desperately poor. We'll need a miracle to get through now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on June 14, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
Well England's bowlers will have to do something pretty special if they are to win.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 02:35:32 PM
With a total that low you do genuinely need a miracle, because there's no scoreboard pressure at all in the chase. If it had been 270 we'd have had a chance. Poor batting line up or not Pakistan should stroll this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 02:47:44 PM
I think the start of the innings has indicated which way this is going.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 03:26:37 PM
They're making this look rather easy.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 03:31:49 PM
Dreadful bowling by Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2017, 05:05:51 PM
We have been sloppy with the ball and the bat but you have to give credit to Pakistan for the way they stifled us with the ball and then batted sensibly.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 05:08:47 PM
Really really poor all round today. Worst thing is we abandoned our principles when we batted. Well done Pakistan. Rethink for England as to how we address a high pressure knock out game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2017, 05:52:12 PM
I think a few players bottled it a bit today, good that it happened now though because it gives us something to work on for the world cup.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 06:10:19 PM
Yeah it was a horror show all round and I think they missed judged the pitch. The fact that Morgan said 270 would be a good score, given the position Pakistan were in, says to me that we underrated them and we're a bit complacent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
The consolation here is that Pakistan look like a very weak batting line up.  We need to just go for it a bit now, 240-250 gives us a decent chance still.
Are you the Michael Owen of cricket punditry?
Well second thought you are not as you at least had an opinion😅
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2017, 07:38:01 PM
England set off like a train 🚂 through the group matches and ran out of steam as they have a habit of doing at the wrong time.  Another tournament now gone without winning it. Someone said it's better to fail here than the World Cup I am afraid that won't do. Winning tournament is an habit. England had the talent were fully prepared and home from home so sorry but not good enough chaps.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2017, 08:00:41 PM
The problem is there's no way to test whether we have learnt from today until the World Cup.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: curiousorange on June 14, 2017, 11:11:19 PM
That shitty performance couldn't have come against the Aussies, could it?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2017, 11:15:42 PM
That shitty performance couldn't have come against the Aussies, could it?

I never want to lose against the Crims, however if we had then we'd be playing our semi at Edgbaston on a pitch more suited to our attack.

That said, to be a truly great side we need to win on all surfaces.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 15, 2017, 09:01:21 AM
Concur with everything said on here and that was a real setback yesterday.  We've been on a steep upward curve in the 50 over game over the past couple of years and winning this tournament would have continued that.  I wouldn't be tearing too much up though, as I don't think there is a whole lot wrong at the moment.

I really hope the West Indies bring over their full strength ODI side later in the summer, as that will be a good test if they do. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 16, 2017, 12:47:58 PM
One slight mitigating factor, and not to make excuses for a poor performance, was that this was the same pitch that Pakistan played on in their previous match, so they would have known how to bowl on it and would have had more clue about the way it played.

 Pretty poor not to have a new pitch for a semi-final really.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 16, 2017, 05:02:36 PM
One slight mitigating factor, and not to make excuses for a poor performance, was that this was the same pitch that Pakistan played on in their previous match, so they would have known how to bowl on it and would have had more clue about the way it played.

 Pretty poor not to have a new pitch for a semi-final really.

Completely agree about the lack of a new pitch for the semi final of a major tournament. Completely amateurish really.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lsvilla on June 16, 2017, 05:10:23 PM
One slight mitigating factor, and not to make excuses for a poor performance, was that this was the same pitch that Pakistan played on in their previous match, so they would have known how to bowl on it and would have had more clue about the way it played.

 Pretty poor not to have a new pitch for a semi-final really.

Completely agree about the lack of a new pitch for the semi final of a major tournament. Completely amateurish really.
ICC competition rules - not permitted to produce a fresh pitch for the knockout stages of a tournament
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 16, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
One slight mitigating factor, and not to make excuses for a poor performance, was that this was the same pitch that Pakistan played on in their previous match, so they would have known how to bowl on it and would have had more clue about the way it played.

 Pretty poor not to have a new pitch for a semi-final really.

Completely agree about the lack of a new pitch for the semi final of a major tournament. Completely amateurish really.
ICC competition rules - not permitted to produce a fresh pitch for the knockout stages of a tournament

Blimey. That's an awful rule
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
Pakistan are riding their luck so far. Caught of a no-ball, 4lb by heading the ball over slip, charge down the pitch for a village green hack to leg.

Entertaining though
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2017, 11:16:19 AM
Alec Stewart claiming the gates named for him at the Oval outrank the Pavilion named for his Dad :)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: four fornicholl on June 18, 2017, 12:31:12 PM
Pakistan have both surprised and impressed me so far. I can see this developing into a crackerjack.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2017, 12:39:23 PM
Great century by Fakhar
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2017, 02:15:56 PM
338 for Pakistan. Not that high a total in the modern game but no team has ever chased that many to win an ODI at The Oval
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 18, 2017, 03:04:38 PM
And India 6-2 so even harder to chase down now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2017, 03:30:48 PM
Looks like this will complete Amir's redemption.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2017, 09:23:22 PM
Considering they only just scraped qualification, winning the trophy is an incredible achievement
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 18, 2017, 10:07:35 PM
Looks like this will complete Amir's redemption.

Not so sure about that Paul, as don't think he should have been allowed back, but that's in the past.  Pakistan have been excellent in the past three games. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2017, 10:32:24 PM
To me it's done and he's the sort of bowler who brings fans to cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 19, 2017, 12:07:09 AM
To me it's done and he's the sort of bowler who brings fans to cricket.

You could say that about some of the athletes who have tested positive for drugs, but in a different field of course.  For me it is quite straightforward - caught cheating like that and get a lifetime ban from international sport. That's not the case though and he's served his time under current rules and is free to play. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2017, 12:46:47 AM
I think despite 337 on scoreboard the key was Amir knocking over the 3 giants of formidable Indian batting lineup. It shook the Indian team to see Sharma, Dhawan and Kohli fall with 33 onboard. Yuvraj and Dhoni are not the players they were a few years ago and that was that. So for me Amir was MotM.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on June 19, 2017, 07:07:23 AM
When they get it right, Pakistan are a wonderful team and I'm happy they won it. Imagine how we would be if England could not play home tests or ODI's and every game you play is effectively an away game.

It's good for Cricket that an unfancied team won a major tournament and for all of their riches, Australia, India and England were at times outclassed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2017, 09:42:19 AM
Pakistan have a great attack in all forms of the game but have been let down by their batting far too often.  They started the tournament exactly as you'd expect but the low pressure against England gave them a little more confidence there as well and they looked excellent in the final in both aspects.

For England losing Woakes and having Roy lose all his form just going into the tournament were 2 massive blows as they both disrupted our shape.  On top of that it showed that despite all the improvements we've still got work to do.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2017, 09:51:45 AM
I think Morgan making excuses for Cardiff being a bad pitch was ridiculous and disrespectful. He really needs to learn from this tournament if England are to do better in the world cup.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 19, 2017, 01:21:21 PM
I agree with him. England should play all their matches at a ground where they have a good record.

Edgbaston would be my choice. 😊
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 19, 2017, 02:10:21 PM
Pakistan have a great attack in all forms of the game but have been let down by their batting far too often.  They started the tournament exactly as you'd expect but the low pressure against England gave them a little more confidence there as well and they looked excellent in the final in both aspects.

For England losing Woakes and having Roy lose all his form just going into the tournament were 2 massive blows as they both disrupted our shape.  On top of that it showed that despite all the improvements we've still got work to do.

I agree and just couldn't see them producing that kind of batting performance yesterday Paul. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 19, 2017, 02:13:09 PM
When they get it right, Pakistan are a wonderful team and I'm happy they won it. Imagine how we would be if England could not play home tests or ODI's and every game you play is effectively an away game.
It's good for Cricket that an unfancied team won a major tournament and for all of their riches, Australia, India and England were at times outclassed.

Don't forget, there is a particular reason why they cannot play in Pakistan. 

As for England being 'outclassed', as an England fan I'll have to take your word that that is 'good for cricket'. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Bren'd on June 19, 2017, 03:16:45 PM
As good as the tournament was the one thing that stood out for me is that test cricket is infinitely better than the one day stuff. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2017, 12:18:27 AM
As good as the tournament was the one thing that stood out for me is that test cricket is infinitely better than the one day stuff.

I had concerns for the 50 over game a few years ago, but it seems to be rejuvenated now.  I think there is room for all three formats of the game to be honest.  T20 gets a bit of stick, but when done well it is a good package and will attract people who might not normally consider cricket. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2017, 03:33:10 AM
I agree with him. England should play all their matches at a ground where they have a good record.

Edgbaston would be my choice. 😊
You need to hurry up and get a job with ICC as fixture organiser for 2019 WC.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 20, 2017, 07:18:38 AM
Well if the victory for Pakistan has taught us one thing its that sometimes cheats do prosper.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2017, 07:31:46 PM
To an extent yeah although I believe in second chances and he was an 18 year old kid who made a bad mistake.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 20, 2017, 09:03:43 PM
its not just him. they've been experts at cheating for a while now. Can't stand them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2017, 09:24:54 PM
I don't know I quite like their team, bit harsh to tarnish them all as cheats.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2017, 09:28:30 PM
As good as the tournament was the one thing that stood out for me is that test cricket is infinitely better than the one day stuff. 
Well two completely different approaches  for same thing. It's like street food v Michelin star restaurant.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 20, 2017, 09:32:13 PM
I don't know I quite like their team, bit harsh to tarnish them all as cheats.

I know but watching them repeatedly do it over the years galls and I begrudge them any good fortune.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2017, 12:14:18 PM
There's a decent chance Hameed won't make the Test squad this summer. He's having a horrid season.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 21, 2017, 12:16:25 PM
There's a decent chance Hameed won't make the Test squad this summer. He's having a horrid season.

Yeah, opener continues to be a problem.

Ballance has had an excellent season so far, so may well force himself back into contention for the middle order
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 21, 2017, 01:42:54 PM
There's a decent chance Hameed won't make the Test squad this summer. He's having a horrid season.

Seems ages since we last played a test!!  From what I can recall, we finished the winter looking at a side something like:

Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Broad, Anderson

There are a few injuries about so there might be some changes to the above.  Looking at the season so far and the Lions today, Stoneman might well get the nod over Hameed to partner Cook.  The preparation for the Ashes begins now.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on June 21, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
Great start for England against South Africa, first ball of the innings a wicket for Willey.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 21, 2017, 08:01:07 PM
Great start for England against South Africa, first ball of the innings a wicket for Willey.

Good bowling performance all round.  Especially good from Mason Crane, the young leg spinner on debut. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 21, 2017, 09:49:49 PM
Willey getting someone early is why I'd pick in the 50 over team, he brilliant at it and even if he only bowls 4-5 at the start if he can take a wicket or 2 and put them on the backfoot early then it's job done.  With us picking 6 frontline bowlers and having a very good aprt-timer in Root we can go for a genuine specialist like him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 21, 2017, 10:32:14 PM
Very good win that.  Good bowling performance and excellent run chase.  Roy looked back to form and Hales and Bairstow were excellent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 22, 2017, 04:26:04 PM
Afghanistan and Ireland have both been granted full test status.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 22, 2017, 06:06:50 PM
I wouldn't fancy the away tour.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on June 22, 2017, 07:48:52 PM
Yeah, fuck Dublin for a game of soldiers.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 23, 2017, 01:09:51 AM
Afghanistan and Ireland have both been granted full test status.

Not seen much of the former, but they are supposed to have a pretty decent leg spinner aren't they?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 23, 2017, 01:16:15 AM
Haven't seen him but some nineteen-year-old took eight for fifteen against the Windies the other day.

Very pleased for both countries, well deserved.

If the Afghan team can give a bit of hope and cheer to the population, then good luck to them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 23, 2017, 02:43:49 AM
Haven't seen him but some nineteen-year-old took eight for fifteen against the Windies the other day.

Very pleased for both countries, well deserved.

If the Afghan team can give a bit of hope and cheer to the population, then good luck to them.

That's him.

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/95266/could-crickets-current-best-legspinner-be-from-afghanistan-rashid-khan-feature

Agree about Afghanistan and Ireland, good for the game as a whole. 

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on June 23, 2017, 08:07:41 AM
Blofeld to hang up the microphone (not before time imho).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on June 23, 2017, 12:45:35 PM
Blofeld to hang up the microphone (not before time imho).

Yep, Blowers used to be a great commentator but it's become cringeworthy listening in recent years
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 23, 2017, 06:15:29 PM
Blofeld to hang up the microphone (not before time imho).

Yep, Blowers used to be a great commentator but it's become cringeworthy listening in recent years

My dear old thing!!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2017, 06:44:27 PM
Shall see when both sides have batted of course, but I think thats a fine bowling effort from England on such a small ground
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 23, 2017, 07:47:45 PM
This has been really good from Roy, if only he'd have found this form a few weeks back.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2017, 08:10:39 PM
This is a lot closer than it should have been now
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2017, 08:27:28 PM
We've ballsed this up.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2017, 08:29:24 PM
yep, fucking shambolic performance after we lost the 2nd wicket
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 23, 2017, 08:33:54 PM
Yep, that was a mess.  I posted about Roy on here, walked to shop and got back to see the last 2 overs and couldn't quite work out how we'd got ourselves into that position.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2017, 08:38:40 PM
It was awful really. Morgan or Buttler should have came in when Roy got out. I know they were trying to give the opportunity to Livingstone, but he was clearly nervous and a bit overawed by the situation. 16 from 18 was the poor result.

We should have put winning the game ahead of that
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 24, 2017, 11:22:39 AM
Does anyone have the ECB app and know how to turn on Wicket Alerts? It was literally the only reason to have the app and seems to have disappeared.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on June 24, 2017, 11:32:38 AM
Ignore above. Got rid and installed Cricinfo app which seems to do the same thing instead.

I see the ICC have changed the rules so that you don't lose your review if it's "Umpire's Call". Good rule changed, IMO.

They've also introduced DRS in T20 Internationals and scrapped the rule that they get topped up after eighty overs.

Rule changes effective 1st October.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 03:08:18 PM
Great start by Malan, Roy looked good but misjudged one and Hales is struggling after a nasty one onto the inside of his knee.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 04:01:38 PM
Really poor from Livingstone, no need to try something like that to your first ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 04:13:41 PM
England finish with 181 - probably 10-15 less than it should've been because the last few overs were poor.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2017, 04:20:51 PM
Great from Malan, but again we fall away. I'm sure he has talent but what exactly does Billings bring to the England team?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 05:10:57 PM
Massive wicket for Crane, 100 needed from 9 overs with ABDV gone is a massive ask.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 05:28:55 PM
Great from Malan, but again we fall away. I'm sure he has talent but what exactly does Billings bring to the England team?

Decent hands in the deep (and generally good fielding) and he can score quick runs, just hasn't worked in these 2 T20s.  I think there's something to work with there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2017, 05:39:27 PM
It's beyond just these two T20s though, whenever he's played he's struggled. Hopefully he'll come good but thus far he's not performed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2017, 05:56:40 PM
It's beyond just these two T20s though, whenever he's played he's struggled. Hopefully he'll come good but thus far he's not performed.

For me he's had 3-4 good knocks across T20is and ODIs but his appearances seem to be 1 game in 3-4 so he's never settled into the side.

Anyway, good win for England, some great bowling after a brilliant 15-16 overs with the bat.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
It's beyond just these two T20s though, whenever he's played he's struggled. Hopefully he'll come good but thus far he's not performed.

For me he's had 3-4 good knocks across T20is and ODIs but his appearances seem to be 1 game in 3-4 so he's never settled into the side.

Anyway, good win for England, some great bowling after a brilliant 15-16 overs with the bat.

Yep, good win with an experimental side (SA also far from full strength it has to be noted).  Good to see young players given their chance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Richard on June 25, 2017, 10:16:35 PM
I think we now have a big squad of international quality players in all 3 formats just need to win some tournaments now and become the top ranked test side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2017, 10:39:26 PM
I think we now have a big squad of international quality players in all 3 formats just need to win some tournaments now and become the top ranked test side.

Still need to find a quality spinner for the test team
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 26, 2017, 08:18:59 AM
I think we now have a big squad of international quality players in all 3 formats just need to win some tournaments now and become the top ranked test side.

Still need to find a quality spinner for the test team

Also think we need to get a settled top three sorted.  I'm not keen on Root at three, as he is our best player and it often exposes him to the new ball too soon.  The rest of the side (Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson) is fine. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 26, 2017, 01:26:12 PM
Livingstone was a really strange pick for the T20 Internationals, and it showed. He's batted 26 times for Lancs and only passed 50 once in that format. If he is to get another England chance soon, it should be in a longer format.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2017, 02:32:10 PM
I think with Livingstone it was down to liking something about him and wanting to see if the step up lifted him or weighed him down.  As it looked like the latter I suspect he'll get a year or 2 more at county level before they try again unless his county game shows a clear reaction to this.  The first game was poor but understandable but yesterday it was a truly horrific shot that would only be attempted by someone inexperienced and trying too hard to impress.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 26, 2017, 03:33:23 PM
I think with Livingstone it was down to liking something about him and wanting to see if the step up lifted him or weighed him down.  As it looked like the latter I suspect he'll get a year or 2 more at county level before they try again unless his county game shows a clear reaction to this.  The first game was poor but understandable but yesterday it was a truly horrific shot that would only be attempted by someone inexperienced and trying too hard to impress.

Bit harsh Paul as he came in at the end of the innings and pretty much had to go for it straight away.  It's tough to judge anyone on T20 to be honest due to the nature of the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2017, 03:56:11 PM
I think with Livingstone it was down to liking something about him and wanting to see if the step up lifted him or weighed him down.  As it looked like the latter I suspect he'll get a year or 2 more at county level before they try again unless his county game shows a clear reaction to this.  The first game was poor but understandable but yesterday it was a truly horrific shot that would only be attempted by someone inexperienced and trying too hard to impress.

Bit harsh Paul as he came in at the end of the innings and pretty much had to go for it straight away.  It's tough to judge anyone on T20 to be honest due to the nature of the game.

I agree had to go for it but to play a shot like he did is too risky for the first ball you face.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2017, 05:13:20 PM
Curran impressed me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2017, 06:25:51 PM
Curran impressed me.

Curran and Crane both looked good for me, Malan was superb.  To reiterate I'm in no way writing off Livingstone, I just think he's been called up too soon.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 27, 2017, 11:56:10 AM
I think with Livingstone it was down to liking something about him and wanting to see if the step up lifted him or weighed him down.  As it looked like the latter I suspect he'll get a year or 2 more at county level before they try again unless his county game shows a clear reaction to this.  The first game was poor but understandable but yesterday it was a truly horrific shot that would only be attempted by someone inexperienced and trying too hard to impress.

Bit harsh Paul as he came in at the end of the innings and pretty much had to go for it straight away.  It's tough to judge anyone on T20 to be honest due to the nature of the game.

I agree had to go for it but to play a shot like he did is too risky for the first ball you face.

Yes the shot was all too pre-meditated. Whereas if he'd stayed in his normal stance he'd have had a juicy full toss to which he could have just stood tall and whacked it for 4, or at worst got a single to get him off the mark.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on June 29, 2017, 10:28:59 PM
Curran impressed me.

Yep, seemed to have a bit of something about him as well which is always a good sign.  Another one though not quite in the 90mph plus bracket. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 10:11:29 AM
Tom Curran looks twice the bowler of his younger brother Sam from what I've seen of both so far, really can't see the fuss around Sam, think he'll turn in to a very average cricketer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 11:37:21 AM
Tom Curran looks twice the bowler of his younger brother Sam from what I've seen of both so far, really can't see the fuss around Sam, think he'll turn in to a very average cricketer.

Yep, I can't understand the fuss over a 19 year old with nearly 150 wickets across all forms either, it's especially weird given he's a leftie.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 11:53:53 AM
Tom Curran looks twice the bowler of his younger brother Sam from what I've seen of both so far, really can't see the fuss around Sam, think he'll turn in to a very average cricketer.

Yep, I can't understand the fuss over a 19 year old with nearly 150 wickets across all forms either, it's especially weird given he's a leftie.

Stats don't always tell the full story. He's burst on the scene, and people are excited due to his age. But having watched him a few times I don't think he has enough about him to kick on, and will still be a decent county player in a couple of years, but nothing more.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 12:57:28 PM
Tom Curran looks twice the bowler of his younger brother Sam from what I've seen of both so far, really can't see the fuss around Sam, think he'll turn in to a very average cricketer.

Yep, I can't understand the fuss over a 19 year old with nearly 150 wickets across all forms either, it's especially weird given he's a leftie.

Stats don't always tell the full story. He's burst on the scene, and people are excited due to his age. But having watched him a few times I don't think he has enough about him to kick on, and will still be a decent county player in a couple of years, but nothing more.

but you said you don't see what the fuss is about.  The fuss is all about the stats, that was my point.  I've not watched him much but he looks like he has a habit of taking wickets from nothing, if he can carry that forward and add a bit of speed I think he'll be very good.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 01:06:37 PM
Tom Curran looks twice the bowler of his younger brother Sam from what I've seen of both so far, really can't see the fuss around Sam, think he'll turn in to a very average cricketer.

Yep, I can't understand the fuss over a 19 year old with nearly 150 wickets across all forms either, it's especially weird given he's a leftie.

Stats don't always tell the full story. He's burst on the scene, and people are excited due to his age. But having watched him a few times I don't think he has enough about him to kick on, and will still be a decent county player in a couple of years, but nothing more.

but you said you don't see what the fuss is about.  The fuss is all about the stats, that was my point.  I've not watched him much but he looks like he has a habit of taking wickets from nothing, if he can carry that forward and add a bit of speed I think he'll be very good.

I think a lot of people hype players up based on what they see though too. People get excited when they see a player who can do something out of the ordinary, like a bowler who can bowl 90mph+, having stats which back up what they see helps. If we were going solely on stats, Will Gidman would be the first pick for England's test side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 01:23:01 PM
Watch this one



He's still a kid so you won't get spells like that all the time but that's the bowling of someone worth keeping an eye on, especially given his age, and he's had 5-6 spells like that over the last 18 months.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 01:39:19 PM
Some great swinging deliveries in there. I do wonder how much he relies on the conditions, as I've seen him a couple of times in the flesh and several more on Sky in One-Day games and he's never bowled any spells like that. As he's 19 I won't write him off, but I'll stand my prediction that he'll turn in to a decent County player rather than an England one. The Jack Grealish of cricket for a cheeky comparison.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 01:50:36 PM
Red balls and white balls are very different, his white ball stats are far worse than his red ball ones.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 02:15:40 PM
Averages nearly 30 in red ball, just over 32 with the white. Unless you are referring to his 5-wicket hauls, when he's been able to bowl longer spells in the longer format?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 02:51:52 PM
Averages nearly 30 in red ball, just over 32 with the white. Unless you are referring to his 5-wicket hauls, when he's been able to bowl longer spells in the longer format?

I was really because I was thinking about spells.  As I've said I don't think anyone expects a 19 year old to show the consistency of a full international so you have to look at how and when he's taken wickets.  His record and style are similar to Jimmy Anderson when he was breaking through for me, he's one of 2-3 that I think are genuinely exciting young bowlers so I was a bit surprised to see such a harsh post is all.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on June 30, 2017, 02:57:05 PM
I'm certainly in the minority with this one Paul. I guess for England it would be good if I was proved wrong. The ones I really like the look of at the moment in that age group are his brother, and Tongue at Worcester. Think Brad Wheal has potential too but not showing it yet this season.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2017, 05:03:40 PM
I think there's a few decent young bowlers about, Coad looks like a great prospect as well.  The thing is I think judging a player before they're about 22-23 is unfair because anyone less than a genuine world class player is going to have ups and downs before that and that's true for pretty much any sport.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on June 30, 2017, 05:24:21 PM
Cricket coming home (we'll sort of, in a couple of years) - new TV deal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4655026/England-cricket-coming-home-BBC-enough.html
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2017, 10:54:46 AM
Hameed's form has cost him, I still think long term he'll be a star. This really has to be last chance saloon for Ballance. He had a great start to his Test career but he's consistently failed since.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2017, 11:03:41 AM
Hameed's form has cost him, I still think long term he'll be a star. This really has to be last chance saloon for Ballance. He had a great start to his Test career but he's consistently failed since.

A lot of the talk is that Root really pushed for a Ballance recall.

In fairness he has been in awesome form and is averaging 98 this summer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
He has and I hope he does well, but if he fails again off the back of that form we need to move on.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2017, 11:14:00 AM
I think the problem is more that Ballance was recalled last summer despite being in poor form at that time. He was always odds on to fail last summer.

Looks like he's going to bat at 3 which will be a real test against a good attack
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2017, 11:17:37 AM
Liam Dawson is the staggering selection for me. In the longer form he adds sod all with the ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2017, 11:25:00 AM
Yeah I don't entirely get the Dawson selection, he won't play, but just seems odd.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2017, 11:28:45 AM
I think Dawson will play, otherwise Broad would have to bat at no 8 which i can't see the selectors doing.

They should have just picked an extra batsman
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2017, 11:59:28 AM
I doubt they'll go two spinners when there have been fitness questions over Broad, Jimmy and Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Newby on July 01, 2017, 07:03:30 PM
Good to see Ballance get another go.  Decent player but needs to take this chance. I wonder though if we are a bit short of number 4 batsman?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2017, 08:15:33 PM
Good to see Ballance get another go.  Decent player but needs to take this chance. I wonder though if we are a bit short of number 4 batsman?

Nah, Root is a 4, we just need to get the 3 above him working so he's coming in after 40-50 overs rather than after 10.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ACVilla on July 01, 2017, 09:36:42 PM
I didn't see any of it but some seriously impressive stats from Alex Hales today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 02, 2017, 07:56:12 PM
I didn't see any of it but some seriously impressive stats from Alex Hales today.

I'd feel sorry for the young lad who dropped him on 9 when he sent a simple catch to him but as he plays for Surrey and Batty is his captain I can't.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2017, 10:07:00 PM
Good to see Ballance get another go.  Decent player but needs to take this chance. I wonder though if we are a bit short of number 4 batsman?

Nah, Root is a 4, we just need to get the 3 above him working so he's coming in after 40-50 overs rather than after 10.

Agree Paul.  Surely last chance saloon for Ballance, as there can't be many more chances now.  Surprised Stoneman wasn't given a chance as he got a couple of decent scores for the Lions recently.

Bit of a strange line up really and a worringly long tail.  The only thing I can think is that maybe Stokes won't bowl so they needed the four seamers. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Kingthing on July 03, 2017, 11:56:39 PM
Got back yesterday from our tour, up from London, played the Evesham Fossils at Malvern Friday, two nights at the premier inn at New Road and watched England A against South Africa on Saturday and a game at Wantage in Oxfordshire on way home Sunday. Top weekend.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2017, 07:07:00 PM
So Dawson is going to play. Hopefully he does well but he feels like a bit of a 90s selection for me. It's a bit of a weird squad all around.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 12:23:19 AM
So Dawson is going to play. Hopefully he does well but he feels like a bit of a 90s selection for me. It's a bit of a weird squad all around.

Agree Paul, seems like he is there to fill an 'all-rounder' spot really rather than offer a real threat with either bat or ball.  Might as well have played an extra batsman really.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 09:35:56 AM
So Dawson is going to play. Hopefully he does well but he feels like a bit of a 90s selection for me. It's a bit of a weird squad all around.

Agree Paul, seems like he is there to fill an 'all-rounder' spot really rather than offer a real threat with either bat or ball.  Might as well have played an extra batsman really.

I'd guess his job is to, as you say, add depth to the batting but also to occupy an end for long stints without going for loads of runs.  I don't care if he takes wickets, if he can make himself difficult to score off and bowl a long spell then you can give Wood, Broad and Jimmy short sharp spells at the other end and keep them all fresh.  It's the job Bresnan did for a while and that Woakes does with extra wicket taking.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on July 06, 2017, 11:30:01 AM
Fucking awful start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 11:51:48 AM
Not reviewing the Jennings decision was very poor, it looked worth checking on first view and the replays showed it was a really poor decision from the umpire.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 12:51:41 PM
The poor morning continues.

76/4
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 12:55:05 PM
We've made our usual poor start to a test series, particularly when playing at Lords.  The top three is really becoming a problem.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 12:59:29 PM
So Dawson is going to play. Hopefully he does well but he feels like a bit of a 90s selection for me. It's a bit of a weird squad all around.

Agree Paul, seems like he is there to fill an 'all-rounder' spot really rather than offer a real threat with either bat or ball.  Might as well have played an extra batsman really.

I'd guess his job is to, as you say, add depth to the batting but also to occupy an end for long stints without going for loads of runs.  I don't care if he takes wickets, if he can make himself difficult to score off and bowl a long spell then you can give Wood, Broad and Jimmy short sharp spells at the other end and keep them all fresh.  It's the job Bresnan did for a while and that Woakes does with extra wicket taking.

Surely that is Moeen's role Paul?  I did say it before, so not just reacting to the poor start today, but we may as well play an extra batsman in the line up. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
So Dawson is going to play. Hopefully he does well but he feels like a bit of a 90s selection for me. It's a bit of a weird squad all around.

Agree Paul, seems like he is there to fill an 'all-rounder' spot really rather than offer a real threat with either bat or ball.  Might as well have played an extra batsman really.

I'd guess his job is to, as you say, add depth to the batting but also to occupy an end for long stints without going for loads of runs.  I don't care if he takes wickets, if he can make himself difficult to score off and bowl a long spell then you can give Wood, Broad and Jimmy short sharp spells at the other end and keep them all fresh.  It's the job Bresnan did for a while and that Woakes does with extra wicket taking.

Surely that is Moeen's role Paul?  I did say it before, so not just reacting to the poor start today, but we may as well play an extra batsman in the line up. 

Maybe it should be but it's not what they've used him for.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2017, 01:17:55 PM
He may prove me wrong but I just don't think
Ballance has the technique to play against quality pace bowling.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 01:38:37 PM
I agree on Ballance, he's very strong against medium pace and solid against moderate spin but the step up in pace and quality just seems too much for him.  It's all a bit Graeme Hick.

Back to Dawson, just for the record I don't think he should be anywhere near the test team, I was just offering ideas for why they've decided to give him a go instead of someone like Roland-Jones who'd have been my pick to cover for Woakes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2017, 02:42:13 PM
3:40pm on the BBC FB page; "Faceboycs Live" :)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 06, 2017, 03:02:38 PM
Not watching but heard as well as yet again failing to score runs, Ballance told Jennings not to review his LBW shout when he would have been given not out, and then selfishly reviewed his own LBW when he was plum.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
Decent partnership from Root and Stokes.

Both need to continue to bat for a long time now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 03:39:40 PM
Yep.  A good recovery, but you get the feeling this partnership needs to take the score up near 300. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 03:41:32 PM
I agree on Ballance, he's very strong against medium pace and solid against moderate spin but the step up in pace and quality just seems too much for him.  It's all a bit Graeme Hick.

Back to Dawson, just for the record I don't think he should be anywhere near the test team, I was just offering ideas for why they've decided to give him a go instead of someone like Roland-Jones who'd have been my pick to cover for Woakes.

Oh I agree Paul.  They've gone for someone who offers a bit of batting and bowling, whereas I think they would have been better going for one or the other. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2017, 04:11:40 PM
No need for that from Stokes whatsoever. 2 men back on the boundary, so at most would have got a single for the shot, whilst at the same time potentially getting out in a couple of ways.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 04:21:14 PM
No need for that from Stokes whatsoever. 2 men back on the boundary, so at most would have got a single for the shot, whilst at the same time potentially getting out in a couple of ways.

That's where he's still a risk of letting himself down, sometimes he'll try to play a shot that just isn't needed, sometimes he'll try to bounce someone out when the play is to bowl full, etc.  I like him a lot and I think he's getting better and reigning himself in well most of the time but 'the inner chimp' still slips out every now and then.

Great captains knock from Root though, if Ali and Dawson can stick with him we can still post a competitive target here, which is a big positive from where we were.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 04:24:23 PM
No need for that from Stokes whatsoever. 2 men back on the boundary, so at most would have got a single for the shot, whilst at the same time potentially getting out in a couple of ways.

That's where he's still a risk of letting himself down, sometimes he'll try to play a shot that just isn't needed, sometimes he'll try to bounce someone out when the play is to bowl full, etc.  I like him a lot and I think he's getting better and reigning himself in well most of the time but 'the inner chimp' still slips out every now and then.

Great captains knock from Root though, if Ali and Dawson can stick with him we can still post a competitive target here, which is a big positive from where we were.

We really need Root to get a big ton and Moeen to get a score as well to ease a bit of pressure on the lower order.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 04:32:21 PM
There's the ton, Root is a great player to watch when he's playing like this, he creates gaps for himself brilliantly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Bren'd on July 06, 2017, 04:33:27 PM
Root is quickly becoming my favourite sports person. Leading by example
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 04:43:26 PM
Good batting the last few overs, if we can get the rate up against the 'b' bowlers here it's puts some pressure on them to bring Morkel and Phillander back on which means they're not going to get a rest before the new ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 05:49:12 PM
150 up for Root and a very tidy knock from Ali so far as well to get us 308-5.  At 17-2 you'd take that and at 76-4 you grab it with both hands.  Brilliant fightback by Root and well supported by Stokes and Ali.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 06, 2017, 06:09:02 PM
50 for Moeen. Daddy hundred coming in from Root.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 06:17:46 PM
150 partnership up from 177 deliveries, that's a stunning counter-attack, completely game changing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 06, 2017, 06:27:30 PM
We are twatting it around like the 30-40 overs in an ODI. Very impressive.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 06:39:57 PM
Terrible first session, good 2nd session, superb 3rd session which has put England well on top at stumps.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 06:43:04 PM
Tremendous comeback from Root, supported well by Stokes and Ali.  We're in a good position, but are still going to need a good morning tomorrow to really get a solid advantage.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2017, 06:51:51 PM
Tremendous comeback from Root, supported well by Stokes and Ali.  We're in a good position, but are still going to need a good morning tomorrow to really get a solid advantage.

Of course but with the batting still to come 450-500 really should be the target.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2017, 08:41:23 PM
Great come back.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2017, 11:57:41 PM
Tremendous comeback from Root, supported well by Stokes and Ali.  We're in a good position, but are still going to need a good morning tomorrow to really get a solid advantage.

Of course but with the batting still to come 450-500 really should be the target.

Could well be Paul.  Quick couple of wickets though and we could be struggling to make 400.  Would love to see Root push on tomorrow past the double hundred towards a treble.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 07, 2017, 10:19:07 AM
Moeen really is an underrated cricket for England.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 07, 2017, 10:27:14 AM
Great innings by Roooooot but also the luckiest innings I've seen in a test
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2017, 11:42:16 AM
Tremendous comeback from Root, supported well by Stokes and Ali.  We're in a good position, but are still going to need a good morning tomorrow to really get a solid advantage.

Of course but with the batting still to come 450-500 really should be the target.

Could well be Paul.  Quick couple of wickets though and we could be struggling to make 400.  Would love to see Root push on tomorrow past the double hundred towards a treble.

I'm holding you responsible for this, just so you know!

To be fair the one that got Root was a beauty.  Dawson was unlucky for me, but got made up for by Broad getting a life.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 07, 2017, 11:43:46 AM
Geoffrey saying that no batter should fear getting hit by the ball because they're not going to get hurt

He seems to have completely forgotten about Phil Hughes
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2017, 12:34:25 PM
Wag wag.

Brilliant little t20 inspired partnership from Broad and Jimmy.  That's got to feel like a kick in the balls for the bowlers after working so hard to try to keep the target down.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2017, 12:36:31 PM
458 all out in the end.  Good target and the time is nice to give us a few niggly overs before lunch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: adrenachrome on July 07, 2017, 04:16:24 PM
Moeen Ali has 100 Test wickets! The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig, no less!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2017, 04:21:25 PM
Moeen Ali has 100 Test wickets! The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig, no less!

He's bowled really well today, looking really dangerous.

and there goes Duminy 104-4 in a really strong position now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 07, 2017, 04:28:27 PM
Moeen Ali has 100 Test wickets! The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig, no less!

He's bowled really well today, looking really dangerous.

and there goes Duminy 104-4 in a really strong position now.

Yep.  Be interesting to see Root's captaincy in this position.  I felt Cook too often lost the plot when we were in a good position and let the opposition tail get cheap runs.  . 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2017, 04:30:14 PM
Moeen Ali has 100 Test wickets! The second fastest to the 100 wickets-2000 runs mark after Tony Greig, no less!

He's bowled really well today, looking really dangerous.

and there goes Duminy 104-4 in a really strong position now.

Yep.  Be interesting to see Root's captaincy in this position.  I felt Cook too often lost the plot when we were in a good position and let the opposition tail get cheap runs.  . 

4 slips tells a story.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2017, 07:43:08 PM
Mo showed his value again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2017, 11:58:49 PM
Wag wag.

Brilliant little t20 inspired partnership from Broad and Jimmy.  That's got to feel like a kick in the balls for the bowlers after working so hard to try to keep the target down.

No doubt it's happened before, but I can't recall any examples of a test number 11 hitting a 6 as Jimmy did off Morne Morkel.

I thought Root's captaincy was imaginative and reminded me in some ways of Michael Vaughan, which isn't surprising as Vaughan is a mentor to Root. Hopefully Joe won't become as odious a twat though!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2017, 02:25:09 PM
Moeen is such an important, and underrated, player in this side.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Richard on July 08, 2017, 06:16:26 PM
I know the counter argument will be there's still 2 days to go and we're in a good position but that was watching paint dry batting this afternoon against a weakened attack.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 08, 2017, 06:19:39 PM
I know the counter argument will be there's still 2 days to go and we're in a good position but that was watching paint dry batting this afternoon against a weakened attack.

It was tedious going. I think in can be tempered slightly with a pitch that appears to have got a bit low and slow for the seamers, and the spinners causing a few issues bowling into the rough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2017, 07:14:43 PM
I know the counter argument will be there's still 2 days to go and we're in a good position but that was watching paint dry batting this afternoon against a weakened attack.

It was tedious going. I think in can be tempered slightly with a pitch that appears to have got a bit low and slow for the seamers, and the spinners causing a few issues bowling into the rough.

It was but safety first, get the lead up to 275 and then you can have a slog for an hour.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 08, 2017, 08:44:02 PM
Warm day - let them toil in the field. Nothing wrong with that. Its also only day 3 so no need to rush we have 2 days left and finishing the day on 170-4 or 5 gives them more of the initiative than we need to give them. Keep going until tea or an hour or so tomorrow with the game beyond ZAF. Its not easy to defend for 4 sessions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2017, 09:11:08 PM
I'd probably try to have 30-40 minutes before tea to force them to have the quick turn around and 4-5 overs each from Jimmy and Broad, bat that long adn we'd be looking at a lead of 350-400 which should be safe but is also tempting enough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2017, 11:23:52 AM
There's been some pretty inconsistent bounce so far this morning. Batting is going to be difficult.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2017, 12:17:23 PM
Folding like a deck of cards here. 4/10.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Bernie on July 09, 2017, 12:26:47 PM
Yep, that's some collapse. Though if the lower order can scrape 60/70 to put the target over 300 I'd still be reasonably confident
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 12:37:21 PM
The pitch looks horrible right now, offering some big turn and some really awkward bounce so I agree, if we can eek another 45-50 out of this you'd have to say we're on top, I think it's already a tough chase because these are the sort of conditions where Broad bowls one of his spells.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 12:50:10 PM
Mo gone, 180-6

Good little bit of aggression from Bairstow to put the pressure back on them though.

Need the tail to stick with him now and he can just carry on as he is (which suits him anyway).  The target is pretty much there now so it's just about grabbing extra runs from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
Feel for Dawson there, that's a fucking rank delivery that you'd never expect to see in a test.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 02:13:59 PM
Lead up to 317, I reckon we have to fuck up in the field to lose from here.

The other thing here is that it highlights the risks of going with 4 bowlers (and mirrors the problems England have had), once you get up to 80 overs and they've all thrown down 20 each they start to look a bit tired, add in an injury and you get bowlers that are throwing down horrid full toss rubbish and the opposition getting valuable runs in the tail.  Having a couple of proper all rounders so you get a fifth bowler is so much better.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2017, 02:14:25 PM
Lead now 323.

This is as bad a pitch that I've seen at Lords for many years. It's extremely dry and as a result is deteriorating badly.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 02:35:19 PM
Happy with that, 330 is a massive target on a pitch that's falling apart.

Englands game to lose from here I reckon.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2017, 03:34:35 PM
Moeen will be vital for England in this innings. I can see him taking a 5fer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 05:20:46 PM
Moeen will be vital for England in this innings. I can see him taking a 5fer.

Good call.

I think he's been man of the match, he's bowled superbly and was very good with the bat first innings as well, playing a big part in the 3rd session on the first day which was, in my opinion, where the game was won.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 09, 2017, 05:22:54 PM
6 now. 10 in the match. Great game for him - MotM.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2017, 06:13:58 PM
Well that was a pretty straightforward win in the end.  If this weather continues, the pitches are going to be dry as bone come the end of August.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 09, 2017, 06:16:24 PM
Didn't see it but I hate when matches are decided by bad pitches rather than 'homers'. Was this the former or the latter?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on July 09, 2017, 06:32:18 PM
It was decided by rank South African fielding in the first innings, pitch was same for both sides they just gave us 100-120 too many first knock.

Moeeeeeeeeeen
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2017, 07:02:01 PM
Poor fielding but also a brilliant knock from Root and Ali, sessions like that are rare in test cricket and SA just never looked like they'd be able to make up for it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2017, 07:12:32 PM
Didn't see it but I hate when matches are decided by bad pitches rather than 'homers'. Was this the former or the latter?

The pitch did what pitches are supposed to do; offered a bit to the seamers early on (when SA didn't take their chances) and then provided something for the spinners.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
Moeen was excellent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2017, 07:31:38 PM
Didn't see it but I hate when matches are decided by bad pitches rather than 'homers'. Was this the former or the latter?

Neither really.  The SKY Sports pundits praised it to a man saying it is exactly what a test pitch should be like.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 09, 2017, 07:48:30 PM
Even heard Boycott saying it's exactly how a Test pitch should be!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2017, 10:06:13 PM
It was, you need a pitch that deteriorates as the game goes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2017, 10:30:06 PM
It was, you need a pitch that deteriorates as the game goes.

Ideally you want the five days, but I think the quicker scoring rates now impact on that.

Got something to build on going in to Trent Bridge now. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on July 10, 2017, 01:22:38 PM
The pitch probably started to deteriorate badly maybe a day early, but other than that it was fine and England played the perfect Test, win the toss, get a good first innings score, make sure you get a first innings lead and then apply scoreboard pressure, Excellent performance all round really.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Damo70 on July 10, 2017, 01:43:30 PM
Moeen was excellent.

He absolutely destroyed them didn't he?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2017, 07:31:17 PM
A bit surprising that there's been nothing on here.  Was an odd day, Stokes seemed to go from ball-to-ball being really dangerous or really shit.

From 235-6 we really should've been looking at bowling them for 300-350 but we bowled really poorly in the last hour.

I'd definitely rather have Woakes in the team than Wood or Dawson, who both looked pretty ineffective in the main.  I think winning this one could be tough from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 14, 2017, 09:45:54 PM
I remember before the start seeing Morris and Philander batting relatively high up and thinking if we get into them early we'll get right through them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 15, 2017, 07:40:53 AM
A bit surprising that there's been nothing on here.  Was an odd day, Stokes seemed to go from ball-to-ball being really dangerous or really shit.

From 235-6 we really should've been looking at bowling them for 300-350 but we bowled really poorly in the last hour.

I'd definitely rather have Woakes in the team than Wood or Dawson, who both looked pretty ineffective in the main.  I think winning this one could be tough from here.

I like Wood, he has the ability to make something happen out of nothing. He looked pretty ordinary yesterday though.

Dawson looks like an average county bowler to me and is a strange selection. Moeen is a much better bowler and so once Woakes is fit Dawson should make way.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on July 15, 2017, 11:40:56 AM
Good work from Anderson to make light work of the tail this morning.

Gut feeling is that is prob 40-50 runs too many for this wicket, considering the fragility in the England batting line up. Really needed to cash in either at the start of play yesterday, or keep the foot on the throat when it was 200-odd for 6.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
Good work from Anderson to make light work of the tail this morning.

Gut feeling is that is prob 40-50 runs too many for this wicket, considering the fragility in the England batting line up. Really needed to cash in either at the start of play yesterday, or keep the foot on the throat when it was 200-odd for 6.

I'm not sure, I think that was probably about par.  The pitch is doing a bit this morning but it'll settle I think so if we can get to lunch safely I suspect it'll get easier from there.  On top of that there is, for me, a drop in quality after Morkel and Philander so again, get through their spells unharmed and it should get easier.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 15, 2017, 01:35:58 PM
Good work from Anderson to make light work of the tail this morning.

Gut feeling is that is prob 40-50 runs too many for this wicket, considering the fragility in the England batting line up. Really needed to cash in either at the start of play yesterday, or keep the foot on the throat when it was 200-odd for 6.

I'm not sure, I think that was probably about par.  The pitch is doing a bit this morning but it'll settle I think so if we can get to lunch safely I suspect it'll get easier from there.  On top of that there is, for me, a drop in quality after Morkel and Philander so again, get through their spells unharmed and it should get easier.

Another poor start and pressure on Root to get us out of trouble again. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2017, 01:40:51 PM
Yep, as I said though, once Morkel and Philander were out of the attack we dominated them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 15, 2017, 01:51:50 PM
However many times we got back to Ballance, he just isn't good enough.Time to bring Buttler back.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 15, 2017, 02:34:36 PM
However many times we got back to Ballance, he just isn't good enough.Time to bring Buttler back.

I don't think Ballance is a number 3 and doesn't look like he is going to be the answer there.  We have really struggled to replace Strauss and Trott at the top of the order.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2017, 02:37:33 PM
Ballance is just like Hick and Key, too good at county level to ignore but out of their depth at test level.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 15, 2017, 04:11:03 PM
Bizarre one there.  Dawson was nowhere near that!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Richard on July 15, 2017, 04:32:46 PM
Dawson is shit nowhere near international quality.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on July 15, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
England have struggled to cope with English conditions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 16, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
Looking forward to us chasing down a target of 873 for the greatest win in test history.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 16, 2017, 12:41:50 PM
The quick scoring rates now mean that games can be taken away for teams pretty quickly.  We're looking at dereat within four days here.

On reflection, Root's 190 in the first test might have masked our problems.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2017, 03:37:14 PM
The team is just set up wrong. Dawson and Ballance shouldn't be playing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 17, 2017, 12:05:09 AM
The team is just set up wrong. Dawson and Ballance shouldn't be playing.

I agree about the balance of the side Paul, it's not quite right.  It's going to be interesting when Woakes comes back, as really we need to get another batsman in the side.  The batting line up is now beginning to look very fragile, something we really don't need going into an Ashes series this coming winter.  Stokes, Woakes and Ali play for me, so we either go with Broad, Anderson and Wood as well or leave one of those three out and bring in an extra batsman.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on July 17, 2017, 12:39:10 AM
The team is just set up wrong. Dawson and Ballance shouldn't be playing.

I agree about the balance of the side Paul, it's not quite right.  It's going to be interesting when Woakes comes back, as really we need to get another batsman in the side.  The batting line up is now beginning to look very fragile, something we really don't need going into an Ashes series this coming winter.  Stokes, Woakes and Ali play for me, so we either go with Broad, Anderson and Wood as well or leave one of those three out and bring in an extra batsman.

No worries lads, we won't even be putting out a team the way things are going down here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 17, 2017, 01:29:23 AM
The team is just set up wrong. Dawson and Ballance shouldn't be playing.

I agree about the balance of the side Paul, it's not quite right.  It's going to be interesting when Woakes comes back, as really we need to get another batsman in the side.  The batting line up is now beginning to look very fragile, something we really don't need going into an Ashes series this coming winter.  Stokes, Woakes and Ali play for me, so we either go with Broad, Anderson and Wood as well or leave one of those three out and bring in an extra batsman.

No worries lads, we won't even be putting out a team the way things are going down here.

Can't see it not happening.  The backlash from the public would be too great wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on July 17, 2017, 06:48:36 AM
The team is just set up wrong. Dawson and Ballance shouldn't be playing.

I agree about the balance of the side Paul, it's not quite right.  It's going to be interesting when Woakes comes back, as really we need to get another batsman in the side.  The batting line up is now beginning to look very fragile, something we really don't need going into an Ashes series this coming winter.  Stokes, Woakes and Ali play for me, so we either go with Broad, Anderson and Wood as well or leave one of those three out and bring in an extra batsman.

No worries lads, we won't even be putting out a team the way things are going down here.

Can't see it not happening.  The backlash from the public would be too great wouldn't it?

Yeah, most likely someone will crack before things get too hot - sadly, I think it'll be the players, as I get the sense that public sentiment's slightly against them at this stage, even though it comes off to me as a classic bit of divide and rule by Cricket Australia.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 17, 2017, 07:12:37 AM
The problem has always been England's top order. We can't find anyone to open with Cook, we can't find anyone to go in at 3. And we someone to nail down number 5. i didn't see the sense in going back to ballance because in the long term he won't come good. We should try every 'new' batsman for an entire series before we discard them but I don't think jennings is good enough. The dropped lancashire player (name? Umeed?) I think will be fine and I don't mind him being dropped now. Make him work harder to get back and stay in the team). I think the 4-5-6-7 are Root, Bairstow,Stokes, Ali but it is too attacking at times. That's why I'd shift root up to 3, move bairstow to 6, Stokes 7, and bring Ali up to 5 - except that he bats well where he is. But by moving Root to 3 there's no obvious candidate for 4.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on July 17, 2017, 11:18:23 AM
Jennings and Ballance, decent Test level bowlers will sort these out which isn't good enough for 1 and 3.

TBF though, Jennings is out of his depth but young enough to come back at Test level,  Ballance is just out of his depth.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2017, 11:22:42 AM
Not convinced on Jennings at all.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Ballance fails again with his standard technical failing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 17, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
I'm more than happy for him to return to Yorkshire, really missed his runs. Could do with Bairstow and Root back as well...
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on July 17, 2017, 11:50:06 AM
I'm not usually one for chopping and changing but they must make changes at 1 and 3 for the next Test. I appreciate Ballance scores lots of County Championship runs but he's never looked like he's been good enough at the highest level. Technical flaws get exposed and his are routinely exposed now.

Jennings too is just not technically good enough right now. They'll ruin another openers career if they aren't careful.

I'm not sure who they turn to but it really can't be these 2. Shudder to think how Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Pattinson would work them over in the Winter on quick Aussie pitches.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2017, 12:15:49 PM
Root bowled....gonna be all over by tea
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:57 PM
I'm not usually one for chopping and changing but they must make changes at 1 and 3 for the next Test. I appreciate Ballance scores lots of County Championship runs but he's never looked like he's been good enough at the highest level. Technical flaws get exposed and his are routinely exposed now.

Jennings too is just not technically good enough right now. They'll ruin another openers career if they aren't careful.

I'm not sure who they turn to but it really can't be these 2. Shudder to think how Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Pattinson would work them over in the Winter on quick Aussie pitches.

As Bob Willis said after the first test, this is Ballance's last chance and he will be dropped quickly if he doesn't perform.  I expect Jennings will be given more time, but will be moved to three.  Stoneman is the next cab off the rank isn't he? 

Part of the problem is that the top three are all left handers and it means bowlers can settle on a line and length quite early.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 17, 2017, 01:33:01 PM
For all the impressive stuff England have done in One-Day cricket over the last year or two, our batting options at Test level look very limited.

Options to come in at the top of the order are people like Hameed (hasn't hit a 50 in something like 10 innings for Lancs), Hales (one-day specialist for me) and then a host of Jennings-type players who I don't think could step up.

As for Ballance, although he is another Hick/Ramprakash who looks unlikely to ever be good enough for England, surely he should have been batted at no.5 where he has averaged over 100 for Yorkshire this summer?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2017, 02:44:33 PM
When we are good we are very good. When we are bad we are truly awful.

We have lost a considerable amount of tests in the last year and our batsmen seem incapable of applying themselves and grafting an innings.

In the last few years we've lost Strauss, Pietersen, Trott and Bell and their runs have not been replaced which is concerning.

I susepct Ballance was a Captain's pick by Joe Root, they're mates after all. Ballance has never fixed the technical flaws in his game so he needs to be jettisoned. I'd stick with Jennings and recall Hameed who seemed to have the temperament for opening in test cricket. He's out of form at the moment so selection may give him a timely boost. Woakes should return for Dawson and Ali should be the first choice spinner.

Welcome to captaincy Joe, I suspect the victory in your first test was just papering over the cracks.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2017, 03:00:09 PM
Truly dreadful performance. These collapses are unacceptable.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2017, 03:01:22 PM
That was a stuffing

TMS were saying that SA bowled well but there must have been a bit of cantbearsed about the England batting
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2017, 03:08:31 PM
There is a lack of application and technique in our line up.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2017, 03:22:10 PM
There is a lack of application and technique in our line up.

Geoffrey's stick of rhubarb springs to mind.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 17, 2017, 03:37:53 PM
Truly dreadful performance. These collapses are unacceptable.

Agree, that was a pretty pathetic effort.  It was almost as if they knew the game had gone and just folded.  As someone mentioned above, for all the strides we have made in the shorter formats of the game over the past couple of years, we seem to be regressing pretty badly in test matches.  On reflection, Root's 190 saved us in the first test. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villa Lew on July 17, 2017, 07:38:57 PM
Having seen the highlights agree with all the above comments, but gotta give full credit to South Africa superb bowling, fielding and captaincy by Du Plessis.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Comrade Blitz on July 18, 2017, 12:33:58 PM
New US Cricket League to Launch in 2020:

Quote
A U.S. professional sports development team has tapped the Atlanta office of JLL to scout sites in the metro area — and seven other states — for a newly established professional cricket franchise. Global Sports Ventures announced last year that it entered into a $70M licensing agreement with the USA Cricket Association to establish eight professional cricket teams in North America, spending an estimated $2.4B on infrastructure and business development.

While no specific sites have been identified yet, JLL International Director David Demarest has been tapped by Philadelphia-based GSV to scout Atlanta and seven other cities for stadium sites: New York; East Brunswick, New Jersey; Washington, D.C.; Orlando, Florida; Dallas; Chicago; and San Francisco. The plan is to launch the initial eight teams in time to start a season in 2020, officials said, after which the league will expand by as many as six other markets.

Demarest is no stranger to complex stadium deals, having been involved in talks between the Atlanta Braves and Cobb County for the development of SunTrust Park and the surrounding mixed-use project.

“We know our plans are ambitious, and GSV is committed to launching a professional cricket league in the U.S. by 2020,” GSV Chairman Jignesh “Jay” Pandya stated in an email release.

Each cricket stadium is projected to cost between $70M and $125M with an ancillary mixed-use component of up to $100M each. The projects could include a stadium, parking, a clubhouse, restaurants, hotels, retail, residential and office space, officials said. Officials said the first sites should be revealed in the near future. JLL could not be reached for comment as of press time.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 18, 2017, 01:18:44 PM
The thing that's frustrating me about England's batting is that whilst bringing in any replacements for Dawson/Ballance/Jennings is a risk, there are no County Championship games going on during July at all, so there is no way of seeing who is in form, getting a closer look at their technique etc. Shoddy scheduling from the ECB, again in this country we don't help our national side enough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 18, 2017, 06:34:07 PM
The thing that's frustrating me about England's batting is that whilst bringing in any replacements for Dawson/Ballance/Jennings is a risk, there are no County Championship games going on during July at all, so there is no way of seeing who is in form, getting a closer look at their technique etc. Shoddy scheduling from the ECB, again in this country we don't help our national side enough.

I was thinking that myself, but not sure if the ICC trophy might have had an impact on scheduling.  The first test series of the summer usually starts before June. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2017, 07:34:43 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 18, 2017, 07:58:14 PM
The other player with "stickability" that we miss is Taylor. He seemed to have the technique and temperament to succeed at Test level.

Ali gets useful runs coming in down the order so I wonder if it's time to promote him. It's one thing scoring runs with the tail, it's far better to have a sound foundation  from your top order to build on when you get to number 7 or 8.

Ballance and Dawson should go and if he's fit Woakes should come back in. I'd keep Jennings and recall Hameed. Give them both the incentive that an Ashes place is up for grabs and they have the rest of the summer to claim it. Otherwise we risk returning to the chop and change selection of the 1980's and 1990's.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on July 18, 2017, 09:40:56 PM
From the Beeb

England's Gary Ballance has been ruled out of the third Test against South Africa at The Oval after fracturing his left index finger.

The Yorkshire batsman saw a surgeon in Leeds on Tuesday after being hit on the hand by a Morne Morkel bouncer in the heavy defeat at Trent Bridge.

The 27-year-old will continue to be monitored by England's medical team and could be fit for the fourth Test at Old Trafford next month.

The third Test begins on 27 July.

Uncapped trio Mark Stoneman, Tom Westley and Dawid Malan are among names the England selectors could choose from to replace Ballance in the line-up.

Left-hander Ballance, batting at three, has struggled for runs in England's opening two Tests of the summer.

He scored just 20 and 34 as England won the opening Test of the best-of-four series, and contributed a total of just 31 as the hosts succumbed to a 340-run defeat at Trent Bridge.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 10:38:28 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 18, 2017, 11:30:49 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2017, 12:55:47 AM
I think Dawson has to go, I get what they were trying to do and I was willing to give him a couple of games but he looks totally out of his depth.

I'm not sure about Stoneman, he's having a decent season but he's never looked good enough for me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2017, 06:01:34 AM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 

Bell has hardly set the world alight since he was dropped. I thought he'd score shed loads of runs and force himself back into contention but that hasn't happened.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 19, 2017, 07:21:36 AM
I still blame that stupid hit and run game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 19, 2017, 01:38:44 PM
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 19, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.

Some good points there and Robson and Duckett having another go are two decent suggestions.  If he does come back, I would prefer to see Duckett further down the order, possibly at six or seven. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 19, 2017, 02:19:29 PM
I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.

Doesn't seem to bother players from other countries

Even the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL

On top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.

The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.

Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.

Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...

I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.
The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one).  I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.

I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out.  Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6.  I honestly have no idea who that could be though.  A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him

I agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high.  6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward.  I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five.  I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. 

We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily.  For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it.  We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window.  I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone.  One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five.  I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.

In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three.  I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. 

Bell has hardly set the world alight since he was dropped. I thought he'd score shed loads of runs and force himself back into contention but that hasn't happened.

True, but I did say I was a bit biased!!  I still think if they were to say to him, you've got the West Indies series and one last crack at the Aussies batting at five, he'd be an option.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 19, 2017, 03:47:02 PM
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.

Some good points there and Robson and Duckett having another go are two decent suggestions.  If he does come back, I would prefer to see Duckett further down the order, possibly at six or seven.

It's a difficult one with Duckett, as he is explosive so the temptation is to say bat him at 5 or 6 (just above or below Bairstow), but his centuries for Northants have been opening. I'd therefore strongly consider him opening with Cook to give that right hand/left hand balance at the top and also the mix between a steady opener and a more aggressive one, then Jennings at 3.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 19, 2017, 11:50:27 PM
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.

I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.

Some good points there and Robson and Duckett having another go are two decent suggestions.  If he does come back, I would prefer to see Duckett further down the order, possibly at six or seven.

It's a difficult one with Duckett, as he is explosive so the temptation is to say bat him at 5 or 6 (just above or below Bairstow), but his centuries for Northants have been opening. I'd therefore strongly consider him opening with Cook to give that right hand/left hand balance at the top and also the mix between a steady opener and a more aggressive one, then Jennings at 3.

He struggled at the top of the order on his previous outings for England, so I'd be more inclined to reintroduce him in the middle order where this is a bit less pressure. We need to find an opener who will do a job for us over the next six months and we can reassess it again after that,
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2017, 12:50:11 PM
Tom Westley from Essex to make his debut at number 3 in the next test. David Malan also called up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40666788

For those of us who don't knw too much about him - including me - here are his Cricinfo stats:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/214265.html



Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 20, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
Underwhelmed by that one, averages 37 and that's from a career mainly spent in Division 2.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2017, 07:35:26 PM
I'm hoping they haven't permanently cast aside Duckett I still think there's a bloody good player there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2017, 08:05:13 PM
Underwhelmed by that one, averages 37 and that's from a career mainly spent in Division 2.

The cupboard is looking particularly bare at the moment isn't it?  I re-read Michael Atherton's autobiography recently and even though it was written over a decade ago, he was saying that county cricket needed reforming.  The flaw with the two tier Championship system is that unlike football and other sports, the better players aren't necessarily going to stay in the top flight.  Might not be a problem for the more experienced campaigners like Cook, but I think it is quite a big gap between D2 and test level and I'm not sure it is healthy to have the best young players playing at that level.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 21, 2017, 06:38:28 AM
Underwhelmed by that one, averages 37 and that's from a career mainly spent in Division 2.

The cupboard is looking particularly bare at the moment isn't it?  I re-read Michael Atherton's autobiography recently and even though it was written over a decade ago, he was saying that county cricket needed reforming.  The flaw with the two tier Championship system is that unlike football and other sports, the better players aren't necessarily going to stay in the top flight.  Might not be a problem for the more experienced campaigners like Cook, but I think it is quite a big gap between D2 and test level and I'm not sure it is healthy to have the best young players playing at that level.

Now that test Cricket is played all year around, the top players from all countries no longer spend a season playing county cricket and as a result the standard of the county game is poorer.

At one time every county except Yorkshire had a sprinkling of overseas players. Virtually all of the great West Indian team of the 1970's and 1980's played county cricket. As a result county players were testing themselves against the very best in the world. Eventually even Yorkshire abandoned their home-grown players only policy and signed Sachin Tendulkar.

Now it could be argued that the England test team was poor during this period and they were. However the county game is poorer because the likes of Gayle, McCullum etc travel the world chasing the T20 dollar rather than playing county cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on July 21, 2017, 08:51:31 AM
Underwhelmed by that one, averages 37 and that's from a career mainly spent in Division 2.

The cupboard is looking particularly bare at the moment isn't it?  I re-read Michael Atherton's autobiography recently and even though it was written over a decade ago, he was saying that county cricket needed reforming.  The flaw with the two tier Championship system is that unlike football and other sports, the better players aren't necessarily going to stay in the top flight.  Might not be a problem for the more experienced campaigners like Cook, but I think it is quite a big gap between D2 and test level and I'm not sure it is healthy to have the best young players playing at that level.

Cook hardly played for Essex last year when they got promoted. Most internationals hardly play, so if the County is successful you tend to lose players to the international team, Yorkshire being a good example of this recently. 

As an Essex fan, I'm looking forward to Tom Westley playing for England and hope he does well. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on July 21, 2017, 12:57:11 PM
We all hope he does well but looking at his form he seems to have been picked on the back of one century for the England Lions.
Not that I've ever seen him play of course!

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 21, 2017, 03:16:24 PM
In fairness, he's averaging over 50 this year and has helped them to the top of the league.

Maybe he has worked at his game and got better? Plenty of us, myself included, thought Woakes would never make an international.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2017, 06:14:45 PM
Yep agreed and I was one of those.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Surrey on TV tonight in the T20.  Surrey's top four looks a bit weak - Roy, Finch, Sangakkara, Pietersen!!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 21, 2017, 07:32:12 PM


Maybe he has worked at his game and got better? Plenty of us, myself included, thought Woakes would never make an international.

Bairstow is another, he's now one of the most important members of the Test team.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 22, 2017, 05:15:57 AM
i'd drop him...
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 22, 2017, 09:51:43 AM
i'd drop him...

Ha!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2017, 10:22:53 AM
I like Bairstow but I was worried that pretty much 2 summers of carrying drinks for England rather than actually playing cricket was going to stop him being the player they hoped for.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 22, 2017, 10:48:13 AM
I like Bairstow but I was worried that pretty much 2 summers of carrying drinks for England rather than actually playing cricket was going to stop him being the player they hoped for.

I still think 5 and 6 are one place too high in the batting order for Bairstow and Stokes respectively. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2017, 10:57:51 AM
I agree on that, nudge them down and 6-11 (when all are fit) picks itself.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 22, 2017, 06:48:28 PM
I agree on that, nudge them down and 6-11 (when all are fit) picks itself.

Agree Paul, though it would give us a bit of a headache to pick three from Woakes, Wood, Broad and Anderson. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OCD on July 22, 2017, 11:16:50 PM
Woakes ahead of Wood every time for me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2017, 11:30:03 PM
I think it's tough, I think Woakes starts every time but in Aus we'll need pace. I'd consider Wood ahead of Jimmy in Aus.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 22, 2017, 11:45:30 PM
I think it's tough, I think Woakes starts every time but in Aus we'll need pace. I'd consider Wood ahead of Jimmy in Aus.

I agree Paul.  I like Mark Wood and he reminds me a bit of Simon Jones, in that I think he is a good first change bowler.  The best balanced England attack I've seen was the one in the 2005 Ashes.  We had the opening combination of Hoggard and Harmison, Jones first change, Flintoff bowling short spells and Giles as the spinner.  I think we could replicate that balance, but in that scenario the choice would probably come down to Woakesor Anderson to try and move the ball early on.

There is of course the option of keeping Stokes at six and going with five seamers, but I would prefer to strengthen the batting a bit.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 23, 2017, 05:53:55 PM
That was a fantastic result for England woman's team to lift the world cup against India. Entertaining all the way through the match.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2017, 09:59:05 PM
Well done the ladies a great final.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: MoetVillan on July 24, 2017, 08:41:45 PM
Brilliant final yesterday.  My eldest wants to know if there are cricket clubs she can join on the back of it.  Brilliant inspiration
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 25, 2017, 02:17:53 AM
There's talk that the event was such a success that it might motivate the ICC to finally push for cricket's inclusion at The Olympics. That would be huge, especially for the women's game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 25, 2017, 08:05:56 AM
There's talk that the event was such a success that it might motivate the ICC to finally push for cricket's inclusion at The Olympics. That would be huge, especially for the women's game.

Which format of the game though - 50 overs or T20?  Isn't having T20 in the Commonwealth Games part of the Birmingham bid?

One thing I have always wondered about cricket at the Olympics or Commonwealth Games is what would happen to the West Indies and in terms of the Commonwealth Games whether the likes of Eoin Morgan could play for England.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 25, 2017, 08:10:18 AM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 25, 2017, 08:23:24 AM
He wouldn't play for England, he'd play for Great Britain.

It would be T20 format.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2017, 08:32:33 AM
He wouldn't play for England, he'd play for Great Britain.

It would be T20 format.

He'd play for England in the Commonwealth
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 25, 2017, 10:57:08 AM
He wouldn't play for England, he'd play for Great Britain.

It would be T20 format.

He'd play for England in the Commonwealth

*In playground vernacular and appropriate ironic tone*

Oh no! shaaaaaaaame!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 25, 2017, 02:53:02 PM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.

Might throw up a few issues then.  As a rule, I'm not in favour of certain sports being in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.  If an Olympic gold medal is not the highest accolade in the sport, then it shouldn't really be in.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
Wood out injured again. It's a real concern, because he's the only bowler we have who when fit can regularly hit high pace.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2017, 02:10:20 PM
Wood out injured again. It's a real concern, because he's the only bowler we have who when fit can regularly hit high pace.

This is why I don't include him in the best XI, he's just not reliable enough (in terms of fitness).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 26, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
It's a shame Tymal Mills doesn't have the body for First Class cricket, that guy can send it down mid-90s.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 26, 2017, 10:43:04 PM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.

Might throw up a few issues then.  As a rule, I'm not in favour of certain sports being in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.  If an Olympic gold medal is not the highest accolade in the sport, then it shouldn't really be in.   

Disagree. Get as many sports as possible in. Certainly the second-biggest sport on the planet should be in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 26, 2017, 11:56:20 PM
Wood out injured again. It's a real concern, because he's the only bowler we have who when fit can regularly hit high pace.

It is and Roland-Jones is set to take his place.  This is quite a big game really. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 27, 2017, 07:25:34 AM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.

Might throw up a few issues then.  As a rule, I'm not in favour of certain sports being in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.  If an Olympic gold medal is not the highest accolade in the sport, then it shouldn't really be in.   

Well that's a totally different question and I agree.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: peter w on July 27, 2017, 07:26:19 AM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.

Might throw up a few issues then.  As a rule, I'm not in favour of certain sports being in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.  If an Olympic gold medal is not the highest accolade in the sport, then it shouldn't really be in.   

Disagree. Get as many sports as possible in. Certainly the second-biggest sport on the planet should be in.

Yeah, I agree with that now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2017, 09:51:00 AM
The Windies would have to play as their respective islands. Morgan would play for England because that's who he represents. If he'd have retired from England, due to current rules, he would have the option of turning out of Ireland.

Might throw up a few issues then.  As a rule, I'm not in favour of certain sports being in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games.  If an Olympic gold medal is not the highest accolade in the sport, then it shouldn't really be in.   

Disagree. Get as many sports as possible in. Certainly the second-biggest sport on the planet should be in.

I'm not sure that the country has the stadiums to host baseball ;)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2017, 11:02:10 AM
Three players making their debut for England today

Apparently TRJ is the first player with a double-barrelled name to play a (mens) Test for England since the 30s
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 27, 2017, 11:10:03 AM
I'd count Raman Subba Row from the late 50s, early 60s
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on July 27, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
Jennings looking like another opener waiting to be lobbed on to the scrap heap, on the same pile as Compton, Carberry, Robson, Lyth, Hameed, Hales.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 27, 2017, 11:36:16 AM
Jennings looking like another opener waiting to be lobbed on to the scrap heap, on the same pile as Compton, Carberry, Robson, Lyth, Hameed, Hales.

It's been quite a run since Strauss retired.  Hopefully Hameed can recover his form and be the long term option. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 27, 2017, 12:49:40 PM
Westley has looked quite assured in the number 3 slot at the moment.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 27, 2017, 12:56:53 PM
Following it on the BBC website.  Seems be quite a battle of attrition so far.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 27, 2017, 03:52:52 PM
Already looking like it's going to need a big hundred from Cook to turn this around. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2017, 04:04:21 PM
That was some ball from Rabada to skittle Malan
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2017, 04:27:31 PM
Nothing Malan could have done about his delivery. We need Cook to go big.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 27, 2017, 06:21:05 PM
Nothing Malan could have done about his delivery. We need Cook to go big.

Yep, with Stokes, Bairstow and Ali chipping in as well. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: shirley_villan on July 27, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
Looking like one of Cook's more assured innings so far. I reckon 350 is a good score on this although a long way to go yet.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2017, 07:17:31 PM
Cook has been outstanding and Stokes battled hard.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OCD on July 28, 2017, 12:21:46 AM
Anderson might be the key player with how the ball has been swinging.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2017, 07:07:29 AM
I do think that if I were picking a world 11 the first bowler I would pick would be Philander. He is always excellent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2017, 11:26:41 AM
Chef gone. LBW bowled Morkel

Done because of how far back in his crease he stands
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 11:56:53 AM
Commentators talking about scores on this pitch and they think 300 would be a very good score.  Sounds about right to me, this doesn't look like a big scoring pitch, there's been lots of movement and and the footholes already look big after less than 70 overs.  Anderson and Ali will both be looking forward to bowling on this.

I'd like to see Stokes put his foot down a little once he gets his 50 (I'm aware he just hit 3 boundaries in an over) because the new ball will be very dangerous so I'd like us up around 250 when they take it.  On top of that it looks like the sort of pitch where you're never really in and the bowlers can always get something out of it that's very difficult to deal with.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
We need the weather to remain the same when the South Africans bat. The Oval pitch always seem to become a batsman's paradise once the sun comes out. When it's overcast it's a bowler's dream pitch.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 12:07:38 PM
We need the weather to remain the same when the South Africans bat. The Oval pitch always seem to become a batsman's paradise once the sun comes out. When it's overcast it's a bowler's dream pitch.

I don't think it's going to change any time soon, but there doesn't look like a lot of rain about before the end of play.  The biggest concern here is the chance of rain tomorrow, it looks like we could lose half the day on the forecast.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 12:11:08 PM
Stokes and Bairstow have added 50 in no time at all.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 12:14:33 PM
Yep, looks like they've had the same thought as me to push the score before the new ball, I said 250, if they carry on like they are 270-280 is looking more likely.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2017, 12:57:45 PM
Commentators talking about scores on this pitch and they think 300 would be a very good score.  Sounds about right to me, this doesn't look like a big scoring pitch, there's been lots of movement and and the footholes already look big after less than 70 overs.  Anderson and Ali will both be looking forward to bowling on this.


Reading the BBC coverage, the general consensus is that the pitch is becoming a bit easier to bat on.  Sounds obvious, but I think we need to squeeze as many first innings runs as possible.  Going to come down to Stokes and Ali to do it, as I can't really see the remainder of the side adding too many. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 01:43:56 PM
Commentators talking about scores on this pitch and they think 300 would be a very good score.  Sounds about right to me, this doesn't look like a big scoring pitch, there's been lots of movement and and the footholes already look big after less than 70 overs.  Anderson and Ali will both be looking forward to bowling on this.


Reading the BBC coverage, the general consensus is that the pitch is becoming a bit easier to bat on.  Sounds obvious, but I think we need to squeeze as many first innings runs as possible.  Going to come down to Stokes and Ali to do it, as I can't really see the remainder of the side adding too many. 

I think the movement with the new ball showed that the pitch isn't massively easier than yesterday, it was just that losing Philander and not getting any control with the spinner meant we could make hay in the 60-80 period.  Morkel looks just as dangerous now as he did yesterday.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 02:29:29 PM
Very handy knock from Roland-Jones here and we're over 300 I think this is a decent score, if we can add another 40-50 then I'd say we're firmly on top.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2017, 02:37:06 PM
Roland-Jones out LBW, bugger.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2017, 02:55:43 PM
England 331-9 Broad out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 02:59:12 PM
If Jimmy can stick around I think Stokes will unleash the big shots. He wants a ton and the team needs 350+ to bowl at.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2017, 03:00:20 PM
Great ton from Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 03:01:05 PM
In the context of the series, that ton from Stokes is vital.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2017, 03:08:08 PM
353 all out, great 112 from Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 03:10:28 PM
I think that's a good score and there's plenty for the bowlers to work with.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 03:15:43 PM
It will be a difficult 20 minutes or so before tea for the South African batsmen. Hopefully we can eke a couple of them out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
If we haven't taken 4-5 by the close then our bowlers will have failed in my opinion, there's plenty to work with here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dr Butler on July 28, 2017, 03:19:00 PM
It will be a difficult 20 minutes or so before tea for the South African batsmen. Hopefully we can eke a couple of them out.

that would be perfect to have them 15-2 at tea.. :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2017, 03:24:47 PM
If we haven't taken 4-5 by the close then our bowlers will have failed in my opinion, there's plenty to work with here.

4 for 5 would be some collapse! 😉
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 04:02:01 PM
Roland-Jones started well. He bowled a nagging line and was rewarded with his first scalp after a review. 18-1 and Elgar gone so an early tea has been taken.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 04:30:28 PM
23-2 Roland-Jones gets Kuhn.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dr Butler on July 28, 2017, 04:31:50 PM
It will be a difficult 20 minutes or so before tea for the South African batsmen. Hopefully we can eke a couple of them out.

that would be perfect to have them 15-2 at tea.. :)

UTV
The Doc

all right I was a little out at 23/2.....now for 48/4  :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
Well this is going rather well for Roland-Jones!!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 04:42:37 PM
Amla gone and Roland-Jones has his third. Quite a first day of test cricket for him!

Dr Butler, I think your second prediction is coming true!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: LeeB on July 28, 2017, 04:54:16 PM
Three great wickets from Matt Le Tissier.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 04:57:42 PM
If we haven't taken 4-5 by the close then our bowlers will have failed in my opinion, there's plenty to work with here.

4 for 5 would be some collapse! 😉

I think it was fair and the game so far is on my side, the ball is swinging all over the place it only needed one of our 4 quicks to work it out and the wickets were going to fall.  The only real surprise is that TRJ was the one that got it first.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2017, 04:59:27 PM
The best two bowlers in this match have been Philander and TRJ, neither of whom are your modern lithe athletes
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 05:03:13 PM
The best two bowlers in this match have been Philander and TRJ, neither of whom are your modern lithe athletes

They've bowled the best lengths.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 05:05:24 PM
That's the 5 then, can we clean them up by the end of play?

This shows just how well we played this morning though, I'll stick to my thinking that 300 was a good score and 350 was superb.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ad@m on July 28, 2017, 05:18:30 PM
It will be a difficult 20 minutes or so before tea for the South African batsmen. Hopefully we can eke a couple of them out.

that would be perfect to have them 15-2 at tea.. :)

UTV
The Doc

all right I was a little out at 23/2.....now for 48/4  :)

UTV
The Doc

Pfft.  Miles off! ;)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2017, 05:32:02 PM
Tremendous from Stokes and TRJ.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2017, 05:56:30 PM
They are saying on the Sky coverage that Philander won't bat so if we get the last two wickets tonight for once I can see us enforcing the follow on.

This England team can be very frustrating at times. A wonderful performance so far in this test in sharp contrast to the woeful performance in the Trent Bridge test.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2017, 06:01:47 PM
76-7 and effectively 8 with Philander looking unlikely to bat if we get 2 more tonight.  I really hope we push for this, they shouldn't be getting treble figures from here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 28, 2017, 06:10:48 PM
We should enforce the follow on as well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2017, 06:20:33 PM
Sounds like having to wear white trousers is not recommended for Veron at the moment
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2017, 06:37:40 PM
England have dropped off a bit here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2017, 08:23:39 PM
England have dropped off a bit here.

Shame we couldn't have got them all out tonight, but we are still in a great position.  Not sure if Philander will be able to bat tomorrow, but hopefully we can finish them off pretty sharpish and build a really commanding lead. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2017, 09:31:16 AM
It didn't help that we had to bowl the spinners because the light was so bad. We lost momentum then & the batsmen played themselves in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 29, 2017, 12:15:44 PM
Congrats to TR-J for his 'five for' and a that gives a decent lead.  To be fair, the catching has been good so far. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 29, 2017, 07:29:59 PM
Did the Lord's tour today. Nearly two hours long. Highly recommended
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 29, 2017, 09:15:33 PM
Shame about the rain delay but it shouldn't impact on us too much hopefully.  The forecast supposedly looks OK   for the next two days, so if we can score at a fairly decent rate tomorrow, we should have a big enough lead by tea.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 30, 2017, 12:31:08 PM
In a very commanding position here.  Barring a disastrous collapse we should have more than a good enough lead to make the South Africans bat before tea. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2017, 12:37:16 PM
Did the Lord's tour today. Nearly two hours long. Highly recommended
I have done that. It's a super tour and no matter how much you know there is something to learn about this great game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2017, 12:39:31 PM
I say declare at lunch with a lead of 350 that should be enough and with typical summer weather maximum time is needed to win the match.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2017, 12:42:22 PM
Congrats to TR-J for his 'five for' and a that gives a decent lead.  To be fair, the catching has been good so far. 
It's not right that England should be allowed two bowlers, Roland and Jones, to bowl simultaneously.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2017, 02:32:33 PM
Stokes and Malan need to push on a bit here, if we're going to take overs out of the game to push the score then we need to make good use of them.  The lead is big enough to be very tough already so we're getting close to the point where they'll be thinking about surviving rather than chasing.  I reckon another 40-50 for a lead around 420 and we should declare.  If we cna get them facing 10-12 overs before tea then that's a tricky spell where we could see a wicket or 2 just like on Friday.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on July 30, 2017, 03:04:42 PM
A good, confident team would probably go for the early declaration.

But this England team is a patchy side, capable of hot spells -equally capable of being utter bobbins.  If the likes of Amala or Faf get in, a vaguely competitive score can be chased down.

I'd push the lead beyond 440-460, just to be safe.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 30, 2017, 03:27:03 PM
Fucking declare, you twats!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
I think they've decided to bat until tea now.  I'm not that upset, I think staying in for 120+ overs on this pitch will be tough.  The target is, in my opinion, already too big to be chased down, it would be one of the greatest 4th innings of all time and this SA team don't have a good enough batting line-up to do that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 30, 2017, 03:39:14 PM
I think they've decided to bat until tea now.  I'm not that upset, I think staying in for 120+ overs on this pitch will be tough.  The target is, in my opinion, already too big to be chased down, it would be one of the greatest 4th innings of all time and this SA team don't have a good enough batting line-up to do that.

Surely not as tough as staying in for 130 overs? We should have been having a go before tea then another straight after. Effectively two new attacks at the openers.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on July 30, 2017, 03:40:14 PM
Maybe Root has arthritis and can't do the declaration signal? That's the only reason to still be batting.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
I think they've decided to bat until tea now.  I'm not that upset, I think staying in for 120+ overs on this pitch will be tough.  The target is, in my opinion, already too big to be chased down, it would be one of the greatest 4th innings of all time and this SA team don't have a good enough batting line-up to do that.

Surely not as tough as staying in for 130 overs? We should have been having a go before tea then another straight after. Effectively two new attacks at the openers.

I agree and if we'd had a better test record in the last year I'd be with you but with this much time in the game and the forecasts on our side I don't think it's giving them a huge chance by batting out a little longer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 30, 2017, 05:30:10 PM
Chipping away nicely here.  Why do they get so tight on no-balls though!!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2017, 05:39:45 PM
Stokes is in the zone.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2017, 11:37:22 AM
Hopefully we'll make quick work of finishing the South Africans off today.  I watched quite a bit of the test over the weekend and something struck me about Westley and Malan.  It was highlighted that both players  have pretty major deficiencies in their technique and this was pointed out in the analysis.  Neither are young players, so surely it is a damning indictment of the county system that players can prosper at that level despite having such flaws.  Surely by the time they reach international level, flaws such as Malan's backlift making him very susceptible to inswingers should have been ironed out or recognised as a reason not to be selected? 

One of the main reasons identified by the SKY commentators was the weakness and lack of pace in bowling attacks in the County Championship.  Maybe time for a rethink of the system?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Hopefully we'll make quick work of finishing the South Africans off today.  I watched quite a bit of the test over the weekend and something struck me about Westley and Malan.  It was highlighted that both players  have pretty major deficiencies in their technique and this was pointed out in the analysis.  Neither are young players, so surely it is a damning indictment of the county system that players can prosper at that level despite having such flaws.  Surely by the time they reach international level, flaws such as Malan's backlift making him very susceptible to inswingers should have been ironed out or recognised as a reason not to be selected? 

One of the main reasons identified by the SKY commentators was the weakness and lack of pace in bowling attacks in the County Championship.  Maybe time for a rethink of the system?

The gulf between the county game and test cricket is wider than ever. Some players like Cook and Root make the step up effortlessly whereas others struggle. I like the look of Westley, I think he has the makings of a solid test batsman. Malan is in the "also rans" for me. Too good for county cricket but not quite good enough for test cricket.

We've lost alot of experience from our batting over the last few seasons. Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen etc and they've not been replaced. Arguably only Root is an improvement on what went before.

How would you improve the county game Tom?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 12:00:53 PM
So close to a hat trick for Roland-Jones.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2017, 12:24:51 PM
Hopefully we'll make quick work of finishing the South Africans off today.  I watched quite a bit of the test over the weekend and something struck me about Westley and Malan.  It was highlighted that both players  have pretty major deficiencies in their technique and this was pointed out in the analysis.  Neither are young players, so surely it is a damning indictment of the county system that players can prosper at that level despite having such flaws.  Surely by the time they reach international level, flaws such as Malan's backlift making him very susceptible to inswingers should have been ironed out or recognised as a reason not to be selected? 

One of the main reasons identified by the SKY commentators was the weakness and lack of pace in bowling attacks in the County Championship.  Maybe time for a rethink of the system?

The gulf between the county game and test cricket is wider than ever. Some players like Cook and Root make the step up effortlessly whereas others struggle. I like the look of Westley, I think he has the makings of a solid test batsman. Malan is in the "also rans" for me. Too good for county cricket but not quite good enough for test cricket.

We've lost alot of experience from our batting over the last few seasons. Strauss, Trott, Bell, Pietersen etc and they've not been replaced. Arguably only Root is an improvement on what went before.

How would you improve the county game Tom?

Some good points and to be fair we went through a run where a number players came in and immediately adapted to test cricket.  Others were a bit younger and took some time, but Malan and Westley are hardly young and seem to have pretty obvious flaws.

I guess the question is around whether the current County Championship system is fit for purpose when it comes to producing players for international cricket.  Maybe we keep the County Championship, but add a smaller competition as a tier above that involving some regional teams made up of the best county players.  You could have six teams - North (Durham, Yorkshire, Lancashire), Central (Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Northants), East (Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire), South East (Essex, Middlesex, Surrey), South (Kent, Hampshire, Sussex) and West (Gloucestershire, Somerset, Glamorgan).  In all honesty, the County Championship is not a prestige competition these days, so you could perhaps reduce the number of games there to fit the five extra games in.       
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 12:44:26 PM
I don't think that the counties will vote for that kind of revolution. There was enough resistance from certain counties to the new T20 format so I can't see them going for a similar set up in red ball domestic cricket.

For me the game is poorer for the lack of established International cricketers playing for a county. At one time every county except Yorkshire had a couple of overseas test players. County players were testing themselves against quality players. Now the best players chase the T20 dollar all over the world.

I think that an enhanced Lions system would be a better choice. Invest in the coaching of the next generation and they should be better equipped to make the step up. The talent is there but we need to develop it better.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on July 31, 2017, 12:50:42 PM
Amount of kolpac players isn't going to help the development of any young players. Last couple of years Yorkshire used the hit and run to give young players some playing time but they seem to have abandoned that idea this season apart from the odd match. Heard Ashley Giles on TMS a while ago saying how the academy at Warwickshire wasn't producing players so they were having to scout for players from other counties who weren't getting a game in the first team.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2017, 12:58:58 PM
I don't think that the counties will vote for that kind of revolution. There was enough resistance from certain counties to the new T20 format so I can't see them going for a similar set up in red ball domestic cricket.

For me the game is poorer for the lack of established International cricketers playing for a county. At one time every county except Yorkshire had a couple of overseas test players. County players were testing themselves against quality players. Now the best players chase the T20 dollar all over the world.

I think that an enhanced Lions system would be a better choice. Invest in the coaching of the next generation and they should be better equipped to make the step up. The talent is there but we need to develop it better.

It wouldn't be like the T20 situation as the County Championship would still exist.  All it would be doing is adding a layer on top of the existing structure.

Agree about the lack of internationals in the county system being a problem and I think part of that is probably down to the fragmented nature of the season and that most international players are now only really chasing the T20 big bucks. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2017, 01:22:41 PM
Great wind up of Geoffrey this morning by Aggers and Andrew Samson

https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/892006915064115201

Although listen to the full version if you can
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2017, 02:27:11 PM
Mo with a hat trick to finish the game
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 02:30:49 PM
Mo with a hat trick to finish the game

Bloody marvellous!

No doubt he will be back to being 3rd choice spinner in the next test!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
   
Andrew Samson
AWSStats

South Africa's innings today was the first in Test cricket to include four 1st ball ducks
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 02:48:49 PM
That was a real team effort to win that test. There are several candidates for man of the match:

Cook's innings on day one when batting was difficult

Stokes' ton, an exhibition of calm and measured batting.

Roland-Jones 5-fer on debut

Moeen's hat trick.

It's a straight choice between Stokes and Roland-Jones for me.

Edit: Stokes gets it for his ton, three wickets and 3 good catches.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2017, 02:54:02 PM
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/480/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2017/7/31/e3e6bf53-d499-4876-a927-39ec844eea0b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2017, 03:03:18 PM
Mo with a hat trick to finish the game

First one ever in a test at the Oval. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2017, 03:14:02 PM
Mo with a hat trick to finish the game

First one ever in a test at the Oval. 

only the third hat-trick to finish a test ever and the first for 115 years apparently.

I can't for the life of me work out why the 3rd had to be reviewed, it clearly pitched and hit in line and he was far enough back that you'd never have questioned that it was going on to hit.  I can normally see why they're not sure but it looked clear in real time.  If England didn't have a review left that would have been a travesty.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2017, 03:19:31 PM
Very close to two hat tricks in a match, never seen that before.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2017, 03:24:12 PM
Very close to two hat tricks in a match, never seen that before.

3 hat-trick deliveries in a single innings, that's probably a first at test level.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2017, 03:24:37 PM
A pretty good way for the 100th test at the Oval to end with a little piece of history.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2017, 06:27:22 PM
Great all round performance, now they need to back it up next game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on July 31, 2017, 11:13:04 PM
Would be great if that win today had clinched the series.

Five tests against the Aussies is standard, that should never be tampered with. But against the other nations, three is quite enough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OCD on July 31, 2017, 11:33:38 PM
Amount of kolpac players isn't going to help the development of any young players. Last couple of years Yorkshire used the hit and run to give young players some playing time but they seem to have abandoned that idea this season apart from the odd match. Heard Ashley Giles on TMS a while ago saying how the academy at Warwickshire wasn't producing players so they were having to scout for players from other counties who weren't getting a game in the first team.

The son of a mate of mine had been playing as Wicket Keeper for one of the youth levels at Warwickshire. Scored runs for fun when given the chance. However, there sounded like there were a hell of a lot of politics going on and he ended up leaving to get game time despite looking like a star when he was played.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2017, 12:29:53 AM
Amount of kolpac players isn't going to help the development of any young players. Last couple of years Yorkshire used the hit and run to give young players some playing time but they seem to have abandoned that idea this season apart from the odd match. Heard Ashley Giles on TMS a while ago saying how the academy at Warwickshire wasn't producing players so they were having to scout for players from other counties who weren't getting a game in the first team.

The son of a mate of mine had been playing as Wicket Keeper for one of the youth levels at Warwickshire. Scored runs for fun when given the chance. However, there sounded like there were a hell of a lot of politics going on and he ended up leaving to get game time despite looking like a star when he was played.

They let Ali go in similar circumstances as well didn't they?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2017, 12:34:52 AM
Five tests against the Aussies is standard, that should never be tampered with. But against the other nations, three is quite enough.
Why?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2017, 12:36:12 AM
Very close to two hat tricks in a match, never seen that before.
3 hat-trick deliveries in a single innings, that's probably a first at test level.
Or very poor opposition on the day.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 01, 2017, 12:47:12 AM
Five tests against the Aussies is standard, that should never be tampered with. But against the other nations, three is quite enough.
Why?

Three tests will usually give you a better chance of winner takes all, so I'd prefer to see a result.

Onto the specifics of this series: As far as this England side is concerned, they are more than capable of losing the next test by an innings +

4 tests against South Africa is too much.  And whoever signed off on five tests away to India needs shooting.  A 2-0 or even a 3-0 defeat down there would be about par usually (which is why the 2012/13 result was so outstanding). But a 4-0 drubbing following on so soon from the Bangladesh series benefits no one except the BCCI.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2017, 10:51:23 AM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2017, 11:22:45 AM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   

I'd stick with Jennings for this test.  See if a decent knock (albeit one he was a bit lucky in) and a very good team win has given him confidence.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2017, 11:35:56 AM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   

I'd stick with Jennings for this test.  See if a decent knock (albeit one he was a bit lucky in) and a very good team win has given him confidence.

I agree, sometimes a lucky knock is what a player really needs to get them going.

Of the other newcomers in the top order I'd stick with Westley.  He has a technical flaw where he doesn't bring the bat down straight to ones around 5th stump but you could see from the first innings to the 2nd that he'd attempted to address it.  Having bad habits from the county game where bowlers aren't consistently good enough to exploit them is common, being able to see those habits and address them quickly and effectively is what makes a test player.  I like him.

Malan is a bigger concern, I'd keep him in but he needs to either change his backlift to be a little wider to give himself room to come across his legs or he needs to open up his stance, neither of those are quick fixes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2017, 01:59:33 PM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   

Unless the selectors take into account Jennings being dropped very early on.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2017, 04:21:50 PM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   

I'd stick with Jennings for this test.  See if a decent knock (albeit one he was a bit lucky in) and a very good team win has given him confidence.

I'd go with that Risso.  Nasser Hussain made the point the other day though that from the end of this series, any selection in the West Indies Series should be made with Australia in mind.  He was saying that if it is felt that certain players are going to struggle on the pitches down there and against their attack, there is no real point in having them gaining false currency against a weak West Indies attack.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2017, 10:30:26 PM
Any changes for the next test?  The only real consideration for me would be Jennings dropping out for Stoneman, but the runs in the second innings might have earned Jennings a reprieve.   

I'd stick with Jennings for this test.  See if a decent knock (albeit one he was a bit lucky in) and a very good team win has given him confidence.

I'd go with that Risso.  Nasser Hussain made the point the other day though that from the end of this series, any selection in the West Indies Series should be made with Australia in mind.  He was saying that if it is felt that certain players are going to struggle on the pitches down there and against their attack, there is no real point in having them gaining false currency against a weak West Indies attack.   

I agree with Nasser, he talks a lot of sense.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2017, 12:18:48 AM
Five tests against the Aussies is standard, that should never be tampered with. But against the other nations, three is quite enough.
Why?

Three tests will usually give you a better chance of winner takes all, so I'd prefer to see a result.

Onto the specifics of this series: As far as this England side is concerned, they are more than capable of losing the next test by an innings +

4 tests against South Africa is too much.  And whoever signed off on five tests away to India needs shooting.  A 2-0 or even a 3-0 defeat down there would be about par usually (which is why the 2012/13 result was so outstanding). But a 4-0 drubbing following on so soon from the Bangladesh series benefits no one except the BCCI.
Hmmm yes but commercialism dictates. ECB make money out of "auctioning" Tests to Counties. Their budget is based on maximum number of Tests being "sold" every season. It's no longer about competition and as you rightly said it should be winner takes all. 5 Tests in India is all about TV money as nearly no one turns up to watch Test match cricket in India.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 02, 2017, 08:42:43 AM
I like five test series. Realistically, we are only going to be playing two tests in series against Ireland and Afghanistan so that opens up the possibility of playing five test series against whoever else is touring in that given summer, same as we always play two against Bangladesh and five against the Aussies. South Africa and India seem the most viable candidates. I'd reduce the Windies to a two test series. If they can't be arsed with test cricket, I don't see why we should be arsed with them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2017, 09:47:19 AM
Philander and Morris are out for the Saffers so they're playing 7 batsmen.

Jimmy and Co will be licking their lips in anticipation!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2017, 09:54:30 AM
"...Anderson bowling from the Anderson End"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40823606
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2017, 10:34:59 AM
We won the toss and are batting.

That's a good toss to win. Going by some of the reports that I've read, the weather in Manchester has been poor for the last week or so and the pitch has been covered. It will probably be a little under prepared so batting 4th on the pitch will be difficult.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2017, 11:06:42 AM
That was a good first over from Morkel. Thakfully he was bowling to Cook because I don't think Jennings would have survived it!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2017, 11:07:47 AM
Jennings could have been out. Great effort by Rabada but he couldn't hang on to the C&B
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2017, 11:33:22 AM
We won the toss and are batting.

That's a good toss to win. Going by some of the reports that I've read, the weather in Manchester has been poor for the last week or so and the pitch has been covered. It will probably be a little under prepared so batting 4th on the pitch will be difficult.

Yep.  If we can get a good first innings score here, the South Africans will really be under pressure. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2017, 11:53:55 AM
Once again Jennings fails. He really doen't do himself any favours! There just didn't seem to be any conviction in that shot, he was half forward and suffered as a result.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2017, 01:09:59 PM
Jennings aside, a pretty decent start. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2017, 01:11:02 PM
TMS 60th Anniversary Game draft about to start

EDIT: Geoffrey is already moaning
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2017, 01:16:36 PM
Bidding war over Daggers
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2017, 01:33:05 PM
"the rhubarb is never-ending" - Alison Mitchell
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2017, 01:52:59 PM
Once again Jennings fails. He really doen't do himself any favours! There just didn't seem to be any conviction in that shot, he was half forward and suffered as a result.

Just had a look at his dismissal on the BBC website.  Almost a carbon copy of a number of dismissals in the series and points at a serious technical flaw. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2017, 03:39:07 PM
Awful shot from Malan given the time.  It's fairly clear that he likes playing his shots to deliveries out there but you ignore those when it's an over or 2 until a break.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2017, 03:53:01 PM
We need to put some runs on the board this afternoon if the conditions stay like they are, it's very possible it'll be the best batting session in the match.  If this pair can get at them a little and get a partnership going I think we should be able to able to push for 350ish on this and I think that's a decent total.  Monday and Tuesday look pretty ropey on the forecast so it's probably going to just be a draw but if we want to try to win it we need to score quick and then skittle them cheaply.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2017, 04:38:15 PM
We need to put some runs on the board this afternoon if the conditions stay like they are, it's very possible it'll be the best batting session in the match.  If this pair can get at them a little and get a partnership going I think we should be able to able to push for 350ish on this and I think that's a decent total.  Monday and Tuesday look pretty ropey on the forecast so it's probably going to just be a draw but if we want to try to win it we need to score quick and then skittle them cheaply.

Down to Root and Stokes again really.  Probably need one of these two to go big with contributions from Bairstow and Ali. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2017, 07:49:59 PM
Decent battling effort if we can get 350 ish I think we're in front.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2017, 07:53:21 PM
Frustrating day with all the batsmen getting starts but not converting. Conditions weren't easy in fairness.

I cannot fathom the use of the nightwatchman today. He didn't face a ball
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on August 05, 2017, 11:25:02 AM
Early wicket down for England, could do with them getting to about 350.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on August 05, 2017, 11:39:20 AM
Ali out now for 14. 303-8
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 05, 2017, 12:39:39 PM
What a shame for Bairstow.  Great knock though and has put us in a strong position. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 05, 2017, 12:41:31 PM
That little spell from Bairstow is just about the first time the batters looked truly on top in the contest so far - and Maharaj was still able to provide the aggravation factor right at the death.

The SA bowling attack has looked good even minus Philander, but England have to be in the box seat with 360+ runs on this wicket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 05, 2017, 12:55:46 PM
Marvellous innings by Bairstow, what a player! Jimmy has struck in the first over too.

I must admit that Bairstow was unlucky and the victim of technology. He got a huge stride in so there's no way he should have been given out. Pre-technology he'd have been given not out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 05, 2017, 01:19:28 PM
Didn't see his innings but love Bairstow, easily my favourite cricketer. He's a lovely fella too.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Andy Poole on August 05, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
Didn't see his innings but love Bairstow, easily my favourite cricketer. He's a lovely fella too.

You wouldn't have enjoyed it Chris. Too many 4's and even a 6. Not Test match Cricket at all.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 06, 2017, 01:30:40 AM
Didn't see his innings but love Bairstow, easily my favourite cricketer. He's a lovely fella too.

You wouldn't have enjoyed it Chris. Too many 4's and even a 6. Not Test match Cricket at all.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 06, 2017, 01:36:42 AM
Didn't see his innings but love Bairstow, easily my favourite cricketer. He's a lovely fella too.

Was discussed earlier Chris, but there is going to be an ongoing debate about where he should bat for England.  I think the headache is going to come when Woakes comes back and everyone is fully fit.  A 6,7,8,9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks a very strong unit, but it would mean that only two out of Wood, Roland-Jines,  Broad and Anderson could be picked.  We are still going to need a five after this series, so moving Bairstow up to there and moving Ali and Woakes to 7 and 8 could be an option, but will we really need 5 seamers? 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 11:46:14 AM
Didn't see his innings but love Bairstow, easily my favourite cricketer. He's a lovely fella too.

Was discussed earlier Chris, but there is going to be an ongoing debate about where he should bat for England.  I think the headache is going to come when Woakes comes back and everyone is fully fit.  A 6,7,8,9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks a very strong unit, but it would mean that only two out of Wood, Roland-Jines,  Broad and Anderson could be picked.  We are still going to need a five after this series, so moving Bairstow up to there and moving Ali and Woakes to 7 and 8 could be an option, but will we really need 5 seamers? 

Exactly, adding a 6th bowler isn't needed because it just means 1-2 get massively under-bowled.

I'd leave that lot where they are, Roland-Jones is competition/backup for the all rounders and Wood is backup for Jimmy and Broad.

As it stands for me I'd be looking at this for the windies series:

Cook
?
Westley?
Root
?
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

I'm not fully convinced by Westley but I think he's worth keeping in, Jennings and Malan are concerns, we shouldn't be messing with the bottom 6 right now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2017, 01:15:17 PM
I can see Broad and Anderson getting one test off each in the Windies series. Not just to give them a break but also to give TRJ some more games.

Is there anyone with express pace in the county game that could be looked at with a view to taking them to Aus ?

Mills would be great but unfortunately that's not going to be possible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2017, 01:16:01 PM
Meanwhile, SA could be bowling themselves back into the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 01:22:14 PM
I can see Broad and Anderson getting one test off each in the Windies series. Not just to give them a break but also to give TRJ some more games.

Is there anyone with express pace in the county game that could be looked at with a view to taking them to Aus ?

Mills would be great but unfortunately that's not going to be possible.

Resting one (or both) is fine but they're still the first choices at 10 and 11.

There's no one frighteningly quick coming through because the youngsters with the potential to bowl at 90+ are all trained to swing the ball rather than working on their pace, because swing bowling is so effective in England.  Mills is an anomaly because he wanted to bowl quick and only ever wanted to work on his pace.  The chances of someone coming through the county system ready to bowl at 90mph with any consistency are, in my opinion, almost nil and only a change to the structure will do anything to address that.  How many genuine quicks have we had in the last 30 years?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 01:27:28 PM
Meanwhile, SA could be bowling themselves back into the game.

I doubt it, another 60-70 (lead of 250-260) and we're favourites, once the lead gets to 300 it's pretty much game over.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 02:10:36 PM
Jennings and Malan gone cheaply again.  The pitch doesn't look great for the left handers though, seems to have cut up pretty badly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2017, 02:38:29 PM
Jennings shot was terrible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 06, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
I know Jennings is out of nick, but his passivity and lack of movement is infuriating. Reminds me of Chris Tavare, only not as effective.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2017, 03:29:02 PM
Does anyone else think that Duane Olivier looks a bit like Luis Suarez?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 03:35:00 PM
Lead up to 270 and I think that's already a hard chase, the pitch is horrible to score off and there's enough inconsistency that there's always the chance for one to deviate off the pitch.  Ball is definitely on top.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 06, 2017, 03:41:53 PM
We would have to bowl exceptionally poorly for SA to even get close to what the lead is at the moment.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 06, 2017, 03:46:55 PM
Would still want the score up to around 320, for scoreboard pressure as much as anything else.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 04:03:40 PM
remember the 4th innings average here is one of the lowest around (it's about 160-170) because there's usually a lot going on.  SA will already be looking at the scoreboard with some concern, add another 30-40 and I genuinely think they'll shift to looking at the weather reports instead and hoping they can just last it out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on August 06, 2017, 05:08:47 PM
Jennings and Malan gone cheaply again.  The pitch doesn't look great for the left handers though, seems to have cut up pretty badly.

Mo seems to be enjoying it tho :-)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2017, 05:17:14 PM
Mo is such an important player for us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2017, 05:19:19 PM
Manchester sunshine strikes again!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2017, 05:39:27 PM
Jennings and Malan gone cheaply again.  The pitch doesn't look great for the left handers though, seems to have cut up pretty badly.

Mo seems to be enjoying it tho :-)

He just played it like a t20, he knew we had enough on the board to be on top and decided he might as well have a swing.  As Holding said earlier if the ball is playing up off the pitch you just don't let it bounce, you might not stick around for long but a better than a run a ball 60-70 is far more useful for everyone than a hard fought 23.  Root and Stokes earned him the chance to do it by grafting through to a lead we'd have been happy to defend and he's made the most of it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 06, 2017, 06:35:24 PM
Mo is such an important player for us.

This test has again shown the advantage of having Bairstow and him at 7 and 8 respectively.  Both could bat higher, but just when the opposition think they have a glimmer of hope, those two have come in and put us back in control.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 06, 2017, 07:53:44 PM
I must confess I have always had doubts about Moeen making it at highest level however these are some interesting snippets from BBC:
*Moeen Ali is only the second England Test player to score more than 200 runs and take 20 wickets in a four-match series
*Sir Ian Botham was the only other player to achieve that feat - against India in 1979
The last England player to score more than 200 runs and take 20 wickets in a series was Andrew *Flintoff in the 2005 Ashes (over five Tests)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 07, 2017, 10:41:39 AM
I must confess I have always had doubts about Moeen making it at highest level however these are some interesting snippets from BBC:
*Moeen Ali is only the second England Test player to score more than 200 runs and take 20 wickets in a four-match series
*Sir Ian Botham was the only other player to achieve that feat - against India in 1979
The last England player to score more than 200 runs and take 20 wickets in a series was Andrew *Flintoff in the 2005 Ashes (over five Tests)

I think he's a cracking player. His only downside at least in terms of batting is his ability to get out due to poor shot selection but that's a result of his attacking instincts I guess.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 07, 2017, 10:43:33 AM
Mo is such an important player for us.

This test has again shown the advantage of having Bairstow and him at 7 and 8 respectively.  Both could bat higher, but just when the opposition think they have a glimmer of hope, those two have come in and put us back in control.

Indeed. It's just a shame that it seems that we always need them to bail the team out recently, rather that coming in with the score at 400 and quickly batting the opposition out of contention.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on August 07, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
Broad has gone early for 5. Bowled by Morkel.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on August 07, 2017, 11:16:54 AM
England all out for 243, a healthy lead of 379. Moeen 75 not out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 11:48:21 AM
Mo is such an important player for us.

This test has again shown the advantage of having Bairstow and him at 7 and 8 respectively.  Both could bat higher, but just when the opposition think they have a glimmer of hope, those two have come in and put us back in control.

Indeed. It's just a shame that it seems that we always need them to bail the team out recently, rather that coming in with the score at 400 and quickly batting the opposition out of contention.

They have both played some very important knocks over the past few years batting lower down the order.  I saw something over the weekend that Ali averages nearly 70 batting at number 8.  One of the negatives though is you run the risk of them being left stranded by the tail, like Ali was today. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 12:15:36 PM
Graeme Swann has just said on TMS:

"If you took a Jonathan Trott from five years ago and put him in now, this England team would be unbelievable".

Agree with him, but I think you would also have to add a peak form Strauss and Bell at opener and five respectively to reach the kind of levels he is talking about.  6-11 is probably as good as we have been for some time.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 07, 2017, 12:45:39 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five

A role he's currently playing for Notts, and scoring 74 not out at a run a ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2017, 12:58:38 PM
The South African batting line up is weak. As a bowling unit they are amongst the best in the world in most conditions but their exisiting batting line up is fragile at best.

18-2, Jimmy gets Kuhn.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 07, 2017, 01:14:02 PM
Kuhn is a walking wicket. I reckon I'd get him out before long.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 01:43:49 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five

The void at five has come as a result of James Taylor's terrible misfortune.  He was beginning to establish himself in that position.

I don't think Malan is the answer going forward.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2017, 02:02:45 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five

The void at five has come as a result of James Taylor's terrible misfortune.  He was beginning to establish himself in that position.

I don't think Malan is the answer going forward.   

The continual chopping and changing of personnel is a worry. Jennings isn't good enough, Westley needs a score to cement his place and as you say Malan is not the answer.

Stoneman is the lastest to be touted for a place and I can see a recall for Ballance to bat at five. Root clearly rates him which is hardly surprising given that they came through the ranks at Yorkshire together. However Ballance still hasn't ironed out his technical flaws and as a result he's a wicket waiting to happen.

Selection for the series against the West Indies will be made with one eye on the Ashes so it's to be hoped that Hameed comes good again because otherwise we will go into the Ashes with an unsettled opening pair.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 07, 2017, 02:07:05 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five

The void at five has come as a result of James Taylor's terrible misfortune.  He was beginning to establish himself in that position.

I don't think Malan is the answer going forward.   

The continual chopping and changing of personnel is a worry. Jennings isn't good enough, Westley needs a score to cement his place and as you say Malan is not the answer.

Stoneman is the lastest to be touted for a place and I can see a recall for Ballance to bat at five. Root clearly rates him which is hardly surprising given that they came through the ranks at Yorkshire together. However Ballance still hasn't ironed out his technical flaws and as a result he's a wicket waiting to happen.

Selection for the series against the West Indies will be made with one eye on the Ashes so it's to be hoped that Hameed comes good again because otherwise we will go into the Ashes with an unsettled opening pair.

Hameed is a poor player. He rode the crest of a wave in India after 1 good season. Now he has been found out even at County level and is an opener who just goes into 'survival mode' rather than ever looking to score any runs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2017, 02:11:01 PM
Interesting discussion during the rain delay regarding playing Hales at five

The void at five has come as a result of James Taylor's terrible misfortune.  He was beginning to establish himself in that position.

I don't think Malan is the answer going forward.   

The continual chopping and changing of personnel is a worry. Jennings isn't good enough, Westley needs a score to cement his place and as you say Malan is not the answer.

Stoneman is the lastest to be touted for a place and I can see a recall for Ballance to bat at five. Root clearly rates him which is hardly surprising given that they came through the ranks at Yorkshire together. However Ballance still hasn't ironed out his technical flaws and as a result he's a wicket waiting to happen.

Selection for the series against the West Indies will be made with one eye on the Ashes so it's to be hoped that Hameed comes good again because otherwise we will go into the Ashes with an unsettled opening pair.

Hameed is a poor player. He rode the crest of a wave in India after 1 good season. Now he has been found out even at County level and is an opener who just goes into 'survival mode' rather than ever looking to score any runs.

I think with the right coaching and guidance he could develop into a decent opener. We've lacked a batsman with "stickability" since Trott's retirement. Sometimes test batting is about occupying the crease and our batsmen don't stick around long enough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 07, 2017, 03:35:16 PM
Bit quick to write Hameed off so soon, unlessyoure a Lancashire member I doubt you've seen much of him, how do you come to the conclusion he's a poor player?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 03:55:08 PM
Bit quick to write Hameed off so soon, unlessyoure a Lancashire member I doubt you've seen much of him, how do you come to the conclusion he's a poor player?

Yeah that does seem a bit harsh.  After all he might just be going through the kind of slump many young sports men and women do early in their careers. 

My concern is that the two test series have come the wrong way around this summer really.  We could have done with facing the West Indies first, allowing new players to settle in a bit and then gone into the sterner test against the South African attack.  As it is, we might be blooding new players against a weaker attack which won't really give us any clues about whether they will be able to step up against the Australians. 

As it is, I think Westley has done enough to keep his place against the West Indies, but Jennings and Malan need to come out.  Stoneman has to be given a chance at opener in the first test against the West Indies, but I'm not sure who is picked at five. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2017, 04:15:41 PM
This stand between Amla and du Plessis is now irritating. We need to regroup at tea and come hard at them in the evening session.

Edit! Super Moeen Ali gets Amla lbw. That's a huge wicket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 07, 2017, 04:42:12 PM
Moeen is a very strange bowler isn't he? He can trundle along not looking particularly threatening for a while, then all of a sudden it's like he's going through batsmen like Trump goes through spokesmen.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2017, 05:28:38 PM
Player of the series is likely to be England's number eight batsman / second spinner
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2017, 05:34:24 PM
Earlier on TMS.......

"He's itching de Kock" - Graeme Smith

Which was followed up by "de Kock's itching"
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2017, 05:46:06 PM
25 wickets in a series for Moeen Ali is a fantastic performance. Such an important member of the side now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 06:02:20 PM
Good win and a good series win.  Answered a few questions regarding how the team should look going forward.
First time we've beaten them at hime in a series since 1998, so not to be sniffed at.

As for South Africa, I think they are fine in the bowling department even without Dale Steyn.  Some of their batsmen struggled in the conditions up here, by put I think there have been positives with Bavuma and Elgar's hundred. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2017, 06:44:55 PM
Bit quick to write Hameed off so soon, unlessyoure a Lancashire member I doubt you've seen much of him, how do you come to the conclusion he's a poor player?

Indeed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2017, 06:45:18 PM
Ali has been tremendous.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 07, 2017, 07:04:48 PM
Shocked at how empty Old Trafford was. I know it's a work day and England were in a very strong position but it was barely half full.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Richard on August 07, 2017, 07:52:57 PM
I think Woakes will come in at some point v West Indies even if to give Anderson a rest. Need to try out Rashid again or blood a new spinner too. Ditch Jennings and Malan, not sure about Westley yet.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 07, 2017, 09:00:42 PM
Ali has been tremendous.

Leading wicket taker, 250-odd runs. TMS were on about him doing something that the four mighty all-rounders of the eighties hadn't managed, but owing to work interfering with my day, I didn't quite catch what they said. Was it 25 wickets and 250 runs in a series?

Bloke's feckin ace.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 07, 2017, 09:16:34 PM
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 07, 2017, 09:25:16 PM
Probably no harm in alternating Board and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

Bumble was advocating the team staying exactly the same for the first test against the West Indies, but I'm not so sure.  Is getting runs against inferior opposition simply going to cover up failings that will brutally exposed again down under. 

The quick turnaround may well mean we stay the same for Edgbaston, as integrating new players might take a bit longer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on August 08, 2017, 12:41:51 AM
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

If we throw out the pitches we've had for the past few years, I don't think batting will be an issue for either side - the fact that you lot bat deep should be more than enough to make up for the shakiness of the specialist batsmen. Think the key will be whether the pace attack can be sufficiently threatening for long enough - I know Moeen's improved and all recently, but given that the likes of Yasir and Ashwin have copped hammerings down here, have to be realistic about what he can manage.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 08, 2017, 09:54:02 AM
Bit quick to write Hameed off so soon, unlessyoure a Lancashire member I doubt you've seen much of him, how do you come to the conclusion he's a poor player?

During 2017 his highlights total one hideously scratchy 50, where he scored at a third of the rate of his opening partner, and another 15 innings where he has not got past 50, as well as struggling for any kind of fluency whenever he bats.

Admittedly I haven't seen lots of him, but then neither have the people who think he is the next messiah and expect him to be able to deal with the likes of Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc bowling 90MPH+.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 08, 2017, 10:29:15 AM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 08, 2017, 10:51:05 AM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2017, 10:53:30 AM
Probably no harm in alternating Broard and Anderson against the Windies. How far away has Steven Finn's game fallen?  He has always been an enigma, but the pace and bounce he can extract means he would be a contender for Australia under normal circumstances, even if he is only 70/80% firing.

Jennings' form is a concern, but if he can't keep the scoreboard moving on, the next best thing is to stay in and occupy the crease.  Take the shine off the new ball and avoid no 3 and especially Root coming in before the 10th over, which seemed to be happening way too often in the winter.

To kick on, he'll need scores. But I'd give him at least the first Windies test.

All the thinking is understandably geared to Nov 23 in Brisbane; and ideally you want as close to a settled XI as you can get by then.  But England and Australia are two flawed sides. Some of their batsmen seem happier in one day mode too. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England could get something in the first test even with a top order nowhere near as competent as the one in 2010/11.

If changes have to be made again after Adelaide or Perth, so be it. Cast your mind back to Trott's debut at Lords for the 5th test in 2009. Far from ideal if you have to chop and change key positions mid series, but a player who has the mettle to come in and make an impact in high stakes cricket of that nature can set himself up for a notable career.

If we throw out the pitches we've had for the past few years, I don't think batting will be an issue for either side - the fact that you lot bat deep should be more than enough to make up for the shakiness of the specialist batsmen. Think the key will be whether the pace attack can be sufficiently threatening for long enough - I know Moeen's improved and all recently, but given that the likes of Yasir and Ashwin have copped hammerings down here, have to be realistic about what he can manage.

Not so sure about that, as we have shown on a number of occasions that we tend to just fold when we are really up against it.  I think our bowling attack will be OK down under and I think it will suit the likes of Wood probably a bit more than conditions up here do.  My one concern in the seam attack would be Jimmy Anderson, who tends to become a bit of a target if the ball is not swinging. 

Nasser Hussain was talking about the challenges Moeen will face down there with the pitches and the different type of ball and I think the Aussies will try and target him in particular.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne saying after the game yesterday that he would find a place in the side for a leg spinner and would go for either Rashid or Crane.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2017, 10:57:03 AM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 08, 2017, 11:04:35 AM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2017, 12:47:42 PM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

There were calls for Stoneman to play when he was up at Durham, so it's not just since he has been at Surrey (though I do accept the calls have probably got louder since he moved to The Oval!!).  I just think he has got to be given a chance or it undermines the whole county system a bit.  Not good enough then fine, we move on. 

The other train of thought would be to go with two young players in those positions and just give them time to bed in.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: simboy on August 08, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
Stoneman has been ignored by a number of selectors over the years and is 30 years old. There is something that is seen and not liked by quite a few respected individuals.

I would guess they will revert to Hameed if Jennings is going to be stood down against the Windies. Hameed is the future and a natural replacement for Cook long term. He did little wrong in Bangladesh or India.

As to a "five". We seem to have a lot of Key/Hick cricketers currently, too good for county cricket but not quite test class,technically flawed at the highest level, found out by decent attecks. Of those I'd prefer the quick scoring Hales in full flow to that of Ballance, Jennings or someone else.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 08, 2017, 01:20:00 PM
Alex Hales seems to be in the form of his life at the moment, yesterday he scored a run a ball 218 for Notts against Derbyshire. Now admittedly that is in Division two but it's still a remarkable innings.

He was tried at test level last year and had a good run in the side. He passed 80 on three occasions but didn't go on to convert them into centuries. Maybe his decision not to tour Banglasdesh is being held against him but given the dearth of batting options I'd give him another chance.

It's very tempting to consider Hales at no.5 for England, as his recent scores are hard to ignore.

My concern is that his big 3 recent scores have either been in one-day competitions, or his First Class knock against weak bowling (Derbyshire at the bottom end of Div. 2). Now you can only score runs against what's served up in front of you, but it's whether he'll be capable of scoring against the genuine quicks down under this winter.

He has to be under consideration though, I'd also look at Rory Burns at Surrey, can open or bat no.5. If we want a younger player, Duckett and Joe Clarke are the best 2 talents from what I've seen.

I think Westley should be given an extended run as he has definitely shown enough in this series to suggest he is worth persevering with.  Jennings and Malan should make way, with Stoneman being given a chance to open and then I think we could experiment at five.

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

That's a very inexperienced line up with the first Ashes test just over three months away. Trouble is that we don't really have many other options.

It places a lot of pressure on Cook and Root and as always the Aussies will target them, particularly Root as the captain. If one or both of them fail then the pressure of the rest of the top five will be immense. We can't keep relying on Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to bail us out, numbers two, three and five must start contributing.

I'd go with this line up:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales

I'd make a statement and give them the change to cement a place in the Ashes side. If that doesn't work then I worry that the Aussies will punish us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ads on August 08, 2017, 01:30:39 PM
I'd go with Hales at 5 too.

Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen

The alternative is to push everybody up and bring Woakes in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 08, 2017, 01:36:08 PM

Stoneman is another one where the wealth of support he has is perplexing me a bit. He averages around 34 over a long First Class career, but just because he's moved to the fashionable county, Surrey, and had 1 good season he seems to be the name on everyone's lips. If I was picking one from there it would be Burns who is younger than Stoneman at 26/27, and averages 10 runs more than Stoneman and has a more solid technique.

I'd go:

Cook
Burns/Duckett
Westley
Root
Clarke/Hales

That's a very inexperienced line up with the first Ashes test just over three months away. Trouble is that we don't really have many other options.

It places a lot of pressure on Cook and Root and as always the Aussies will target them, particularly Root as the captain. If one or both of them fail then the pressure of the rest of the top five will be immense. We can't keep relying on Bairstow, Stokes and Ali to bail us out, numbers two, three and five must start contributing.

I'd go with this line up:

Cook
Hameed
Westley
Root
Hales

I'd make a statement and give them the change to cement a place in the Ashes side. If that doesn't work then I worry that the Aussies will punish us.

It is far from ideal having 3 unproven bats in the first 5 for an Ashes, but other than Ballance or Jennings there aren't a lot of options, as you say.

Of the positions I put 2 possibilities for, if they went for Duckett and Hales, it's actually got more Test Match experience than the team you've gone for, just!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2017, 01:42:44 PM
Stoneman has been ignored by a number of selectors over the years and is 30 years old. There is something that is seen and not liked by quite a few respected individuals.

I would guess they will revert to Hameed if Jennings is going to be stood down against the Windies. Hameed is the future and a natural replacement for Cook long term. He did little wrong in Bangladesh or India.

As to a "five". We seem to have a lot of Key/Hick cricketers currently, too good for county cricket but not quite test class,technically flawed at the highest level, found out by decent attecks. Of those I'd prefer the quick scoring Hales in full flow to that of Ballance, Jennings or someone else.

Fair enough about Stoneman, but there aren't really too many other options.  Hameed has been in rotten form since the winter, but is getting some runs in the latest match so it might be worth a gamble against the Windies. 

As for five, we also seem to have a group of players (Hales, Roy, Morgan, Buttler) who can take international attacks apart in white ball cricket but have struggled in the longer format when given the chance (can't recall Roy playing a test, but the other three have).  I have got a feeling that we may see Ballance at five when he has recovered from injury though.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 08, 2017, 03:45:56 PM
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2017, 05:59:34 PM
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.

I think Mark Wood is the type of bowler you are talking about, but it depends on whether he is going to be fit or not.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne's comments about selection last night. He's always had that positive approach to the game and his argument was that he would move Stokes or Bairstow to five, move Ali to seven, have Woakes at eight and the extra bowler at nine.  His logic was that Stokes or Bairstow are probably going to be better than any of the other options for that position, so why not play them there.

I think we are a bit more of a cautious lot though and I have to admit that a 6,7,8, 9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks rock solid to me and they all seem comfortable in those respective positions. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Rotterdam on August 08, 2017, 06:03:59 PM
Against the Windies, I'd go -
Cook
K-J
Westley
Root+
Bairstow*
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
R-J
Broad
Anderson

Hales and Malan make up the squad. Rashid if needed.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Rotterdam on August 08, 2017, 06:05:21 PM
I've just read your comments Tom, and it seems that I agree with Warne!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 08, 2017, 08:28:41 PM
Woakes would be nailed on for me for Australia. 

New ball pairing picks itself barring injury or disaster.

But you need a workhorse who can get through a lot of overs down there with a decent economy rate. Woakes now has that bit of nip now too to make him more than a medium pace trundler.   Stokes is a talent, but he needs to be wrapped in cotton wool. No question at all that he should be in the side, but killer long spells blunt his effectiveness and make him an injury doubt for later tests.

Moeen will obv be the nailed on spin option.

So you pick the rest of the side around that.

I think Mark Wood is the type of bowler you are talking about, but it depends on whether he is going to be fit or not.  Interesting to hear Shane Warne's comments about selection last night. He's always had that positive approach to the game and his argument was that he would move Stokes or Bairstow to five, move Ali to seven, have Woakes at eight and the extra bowler at nine.  His logic was that Stokes or Bairstow are probably going to be better than any of the other options for that position, so why not play them there.

I think we are a bit more of a cautious lot though and I have to admit that a 6,7,8, 9 of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali and Woakes looks rock solid to me and they all seem comfortable in those respective positions. 

Wood is quicker than Stokes, obv. So is even more of an impact bowler.  Neither can really fulfill the role Hoggard performed in 2006, or Bresnan in 2010.

Wood is a nice option to have, if he's in good nick and injury free, a really good option to have.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 08, 2017, 10:08:19 PM
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 09, 2017, 10:59:14 AM
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?

Some interesting thoughts.  The top of the order has been an issue for sometime, with permanent replacements as of yet not being found for Strauss and Trott.  There have been some pretty awful collapses in the last couple of years as well, which would suggest all is not well.  That said, I still think 6-11 is as strong as it has been for some time and in Cook and Root, we have two world class top order batsmen.     
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 09, 2017, 12:58:06 PM
Some interesting comments and stats in this article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40862946

Maybe Bayliss is too white ball centred?

Some interesting thoughts.  The top of the order has been an issue for sometime, with permanent replacements as of yet not being found for Strauss and Trott.  There have been some pretty awful collapses in the last couple of years as well, which would suggest all is not well.  That said, I still think 6-11 is as strong as it has been for some time and in Cook and Root, we have two world class top order batsmen.   

Cook hasn't really been firing on all cylinders for a while. In his last 16 innings, there are no 100s and only 3 50s, for an average of 30.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 10, 2017, 07:44:06 PM
Stoneman and Crane in for Jennings and Dawson.  Just watching Crane in a T20 and he looks a real prospect.  Absolutely bamboozled Jacques Rudolph with a googly which bowled him. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 10, 2017, 07:55:36 PM
To get away from the current team for a moment, I came across this the other day:



It's obviously a bit dated and a few of the choices are a bit lopsided, but a few pundits had a go at it and pretty much got the same team. I thought I would address the balance a bit below and bring it up to date (had to add three options in some places - my choices are in bold):

Atherton / Strauss
Trescothick / Cook
Vaughan / Hussain / Trott
Pietersen / Root
Bell / Thorpe / Collingwood
Stewart / Prior
Flintoff / Stokes
Swann / Giles / Moeen
Gough / Simon Jones
Caddick / Harmison / Broad
Anderson / Hoggard

Some tough choices and I just couldn't decide between KP and Root.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 10, 2017, 09:23:41 PM
Root didn't make his debut until 2012 so wouldn't be eligible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 10, 2017, 10:35:35 PM
When Bumble made his picks, Tresco over Chef was the right call. However, eight years on, Cook must be the choice.

I'd have Tresco at three
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 11, 2017, 12:04:00 AM
Root didn't make his debut until 2012 so wouldn't be eligible.

My selections were from the noughties onwards.  My earliest recollections of watching cricket are from about 1991 onwards and the only difference I'd make in my all time team since then from the one I chose a few posts back would be to put that era Gooch in instead of Atherton.  It was some Indian summer Gooch had around that time. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 11, 2017, 10:16:21 AM
Atherton
Cook
Vaughan (c)
Pietersen
Bell
Stewart (w)
Flintoff
Swann
Jones
Harmison
Anderson

I like things like this, they always entirely subjective. For me, there are a few changes to make it my ideal line up.

I think that Cook edges Trescothick. Tresco was a great player but he never dominated attacks like Cook did his in prime. A player with as many test centuries as Cook has should always be in the side.

I did consider replacing Vaughan with Trott as the top three needs an anchor, an obdurate batsman who can hang around. However having a top three of Atherton, Cook and Trott would be too obdurate. Vaughan would also be my captain.

Pietersen edges Root based upon his star quality. Yes he was a twat but teams do need something special at number four. Root is a fabulous player and in a few years he will undoubtedly replace KP in a similar side but KP has won several Ashes series and that must count for something.

Bell replaces Thorpe based upon technical excellence, five Ashes series wins and over 7,000 test match runs. His performance in the 2013 home Ashes was phenomenal. For me Thorpe flattered to deceive too often and was rarely part of an England side with an ingrained winning habit.

I’d pick Simon Jones above Darren Gough. On his day, Jones was unplayable and a master of reverse swing. If he had stayed fit he would have easily reached number one in the world bowling rankings. Gough was good and had a heart like a lion but Jones possessed a bag of tricks with the ball to rival Warne.

The final consideration was between Harmison and Broad. Broad has produced some of the most destructive spells of bowling that I’ve seen from an England player. His 8-15 against the Aussies at Trent Bridge in 2015 will live long in the memory. I went for Harmison based upon his raw pace. Every side needs an express fast bowler and Harmison is that man.

It will be interesting to consider this again in five years when Moeen and Bairstow will come into the reckoning.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 11, 2017, 10:19:52 AM
Jones was pure class but unfortunately he didn't play enough to be ranked amongst those greats.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 11, 2017, 10:29:19 AM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 11, 2017, 10:34:13 AM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.

I think it is a pretty sound selection.  They can have a look at Stoneman and Hameed gets a bit more time in County cricket to find some form.  We're going to need to take three openers to Australia, so if Hameed's form picks up he will go, leaving a choice between Stoneman and Jennings for the other spot. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 11, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.

I think it is a pretty sound selection.  They can have a look at Stoneman and Hameed gets a bit more time in County cricket to find some form.  We're going to need to take three openers to Australia, so if Hameed's form picks up he will go, leaving a choice between Stoneman and Jennings for the other spot.


Why is it a sound selection, when Stoneman's opening partner at Surrey is younger, has scored more runs over the past couple of years and has a much better career average?

On Hameed, everyone is talking about 'form', but I think when his lack of runs have been over 3/4 of a season it is a bit of a stretch just to put it down to 'poor form'. The media and the player himself seem to be fooling everyone with that one.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 11, 2017, 11:30:47 AM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.

I think it is a pretty sound selection.  They can have a look at Stoneman and Hameed gets a bit more time in County cricket to find some form.  We're going to need to take three openers to Australia, so if Hameed's form picks up he will go, leaving a choice between Stoneman and Jennings for the other spot.


Why is it a sound selection, when Stoneman's opening partner at Surrey is younger, has scored more runs over the past couple of years and has a much better career average?

On Hameed, everyone is talking about 'form', but I think when his lack of runs have been over 3/4 of a season it is a bit of a stretch just to put it down to 'poor form'. The media and the player himself seem to be fooling everyone with that one.

The first point is fair one, but I guess Stoneman is the name that has been pushed for some time (including Alec Stewart recently) so I guess he is seen as next cab off the rank. 

As for the second point, 3/4 of a season accounts for what, 8 or 9 games?  Not really a huge amount of games although I do admit it has been a disappointing summer for him so far.  He looked very good last winter though and I suppose he showed enough talent then for people to want to persist with him.       
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 11, 2017, 12:12:10 PM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.

I think it is a pretty sound selection.  They can have a look at Stoneman and Hameed gets a bit more time in County cricket to find some form.  We're going to need to take three openers to Australia, so if Hameed's form picks up he will go, leaving a choice between Stoneman and Jennings for the other spot.


Why is it a sound selection, when Stoneman's opening partner at Surrey is younger, has scored more runs over the past couple of years and has a much better career average?

On Hameed, everyone is talking about 'form', but I think when his lack of runs have been over 3/4 of a season it is a bit of a stretch just to put it down to 'poor form'. The media and the player himself seem to be fooling everyone with that one.

The first point is fair one, but I guess Stoneman is the name that has been pushed for some time (including Alec Stewart recently) so I guess he is seen as next cab off the rank. 

As for the second point, 3/4 of a season accounts for what, 8 or 9 games?  Not really a huge amount of games although I do admit it has been a disappointing summer for him so far.  He looked very good last winter though and I suppose he showed enough talent then for people to want to persist with him.     

I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 11, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Forty years ago today, the 100th Hundred

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 11, 2017, 12:30:10 PM
Not convinced about the Stoneman selection, think he'll score some runs v Windies then flop v the Aussies. Although I do think he's a better choice than Hameed.

I think it is a pretty sound selection.  They can have a look at Stoneman and Hameed gets a bit more time in County cricket to find some form.  We're going to need to take three openers to Australia, so if Hameed's form picks up he will go, leaving a choice between Stoneman and Jennings for the other spot.


Why is it a sound selection, when Stoneman's opening partner at Surrey is younger, has scored more runs over the past couple of years and has a much better career average?

On Hameed, everyone is talking about 'form', but I think when his lack of runs have been over 3/4 of a season it is a bit of a stretch just to put it down to 'poor form'. The media and the player himself seem to be fooling everyone with that one.

The first point is fair one, but I guess Stoneman is the name that has been pushed for some time (including Alec Stewart recently) so I guess he is seen as next cab off the rank. 

As for the second point, 3/4 of a season accounts for what, 8 or 9 games?  Not really a huge amount of games although I do admit it has been a disappointing summer for him so far.  He looked very good last winter though and I suppose he showed enough talent then for people to want to persist with him.     

I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 11, 2017, 12:42:23 PM
Forty years ago today, the 100th Hundred



Or if you believe Aggers on TMS it was number 99!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 11, 2017, 12:43:07 PM
Andrew Samson's acting was pretty good as well
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dave shelley on August 11, 2017, 01:10:08 PM
Is he still in?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 11, 2017, 01:18:09 PM
Is he still in?

Yes he's using a stick of rhubarb as a bat and wearing his mom's old pinny.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 11, 2017, 01:29:44 PM
I've always disliked Boycott although he's an excellent summariser but was really surprised when my brother was invited on to Test Match Special and he said how friendly and welcoming he was and keen to know more about the charity, unlike another former Yorkshire Test opener. A friend of my dad played for many years with Boycott at Yorkshire and has nothing but good to say about him. I'm warming to him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 11, 2017, 01:50:21 PM
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 11, 2017, 04:44:31 PM
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.

I think most people think he's going to be great because last season he scored 1,198 Championship runs for Lancashire last season at an average of a squint under 50. Then looked pretty solid in the tests he played. Yes, he's faltered this season, but there's good grounds to think he'll be something fairly special.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 11, 2017, 05:52:24 PM
He's only a young lad, it's very unfair to write him off already because he's struggling with the second album.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 11, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
I guess Burns will have to wait for one or two more failures to be considered for an opportunity.

Put another way, it is 16-18 innings. A lot less than England batsmen get given before they are written off as being not good enough. Whilst Hameed didn't do a bad job in India, the slow/low pitches meant I wasn't sold based on that alone, and in more testing swinging conditions back home he has been found out, as I believe he would be against genuine pace on bouncy, Australian tracks.

I'm obviously not privy to selection discussions, but I've never really seen Burns linked or talked about in regards to national selection.  It's getting pretty desperate though, so I wouldn't rule out anyone at this juncture. 

I guess time will tell with Hameed.

It will. The frustration for me is most people assuming he's going to be great based on 3 pretty decent matches in India, but then a much bigger chunk of games (8-9 poor games this season as you alluded to above) isn't enough to judge him on.

I think most people think he's going to be great because last season he scored 1,198 Championship runs for Lancashire last season at an average of a squint under 50. Then looked pretty solid in the tests he played. Yes, he's faltered this season, but there's good grounds to think he'll be something fairly special.

and did it all as a teenager.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on August 14, 2017, 04:02:13 PM
Some interesting comments from Nick Compton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40923351

I thought he'd be bitter but he's written a balanced account of his experiences.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 14, 2017, 11:55:01 PM
Some interesting comments from Nick Compton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40923351

I thought he'd be bitter but he's written a balanced account of his experiences.

Yep, an interesting insight.  Must not be an easy place to be, where you are trying so hard but nothing is going for you and all the time you are receiving a barrage of criticism in the press and every minute detail of your technique is being dissected.  You can see that players who try and alter their technique during a series often make things worse for themselves and also interesting to note that some of the better test players in recent times (Graeme Smith, Chanderpaul and Steve Smith for example) have had pretty unique techniques that would not be in any coaching manual. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2017, 11:11:36 AM
Having a unique technique is fine if it's effective but if, like Ballance for example, you have a clear flaw that you're not addressing and it's seeing you underperform them you have to accept the criticism.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 15, 2017, 12:57:55 PM
Having a unique technique is fine if it's effective but if, like Ballance for example, you have a clear flaw that you're not addressing and it's seeing you underperform them you have to accept the criticism.

Agree Paul, but his technique must have been effective enough for him to get to test level in the first place and he had a good start to his test career.  The constant picking apart of a player's technique and suggestions on how to improve it must mean that they are going to the crease with their mind all over the place.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 15, 2017, 11:01:03 PM
 But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 15, 2017, 11:57:16 PM
But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.

First point - suppose so but Compton's piece gives an idea of how tough it must be when you are struggling at that level and how self doubt can begin to creep in.

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship lost it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2017, 01:05:28 AM
But if they are performing then their technique won't be picked apart. The thing is for the player to listen only to those coaches he trusts to put it right, there is no need for any player to take any heed whatsoever of the pundits and commentators, if he does and then loses confidence because of it then it's his own fault really.

 As for the first point, you can get away with a flawed technique at County level, the best bowlers hardly play County cricket any more, it should be up to the coaches, including the England coaches if a player is on the radar, to pick up these flaws early so they are not bought into the Test arena when the time comes. There is enough technology about these days for every potential England players technique to be analysed before they get anywhere near the first XI.

First point - suppose so but Compton's piece gives an idea of how tough it must be when you are struggling at that level and how self doubt can begin to creep in.

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

I think the last line there is fairly obviously true.  Fixing it is a bigger issue and requires the ICC to grow some balls and start managing the sport properly.
- The T20 franchises need to be properly organised and the time they take up in the calendar needs to be reduced.
- International tours and competitions need to be centralised (to an extent) and altered to allow senior players to play at county (and equivalent level) and to avoid players picking between money in the t20s and caps.
- T20 (and 50over) fielding restrictions need to be reviewed to better balance things between bat and ball in those formats.

On top of that the ECB needs to do more with the lions to find u23 players who have a solid technique and the right mentality instead of calling in players like Malan and Stoneman.  If someone in their late 20s (or 30s) is in good form then by all means give him a shot in the main squad but the lions needs to be a conveyer belt to bring players on and get them the extra coaching to make them ready.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 16, 2017, 01:45:10 AM

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

It is a damning assessment and is meant to be. If, as you say, the County Championship is meant to be a step on the way to International Cricket then the England coaches should be all over the most promising players and should be all over the coaching staff at the counties of those players. Players are still coming into the Test arena with basic flaws in technique that should have been picked up and ironed out when they first came onto the radar.
 Test cricket is brutal and unfortunately County cricket, as it currently stands, is not a good place to prepare for it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2017, 01:23:40 PM

Second point - that's a pretty damning assessment of County cricket then.  Let's be honest, the County Championship list it's prestige a while ago and now serves primarily as a breeding ground for Team England.  If players are arriving at international level with major technical flaws that aren't being picked up at that level, then something is obviously wrong.

It is a damning assessment and is meant to be. If, as you say, the County Championship is meant to be a step on the way to International Cricket then the England coaches should be all over the most promising players and should be all over the coaching staff at the counties of those players. Players are still coming into the Test arena with basic flaws in technique that should have been picked up and ironed out when they first came onto the radar.
 Test cricket is brutal and unfortunately County cricket, as it currently stands, is not a good place to prepare for it.

I watch that 'Cricket Writers on TV' show and have heard it mentioned a few times that Bayliss spends a lot of his time back in Australia and has himself admitted that he doesn't watch much County cricket.  That suggests to me that his role doesn't really involve selection and that is done by others. 

On the subject of selection, the general feeling on the show on Sunday was that Woakes will come back in and that Mason Crane could play.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 17, 2017, 09:29:42 AM
Feels really weird waiting for the Test to kick off at 2. I like the idea though I hope the weather's warm for those of you going.

I've followed to a certain extent the story of the pink Duke ball, but am mightily puzzled as to why it should behave differently (e.g. go soft quicker, not take a shine) just because they dye it a different colour.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 17, 2017, 10:18:34 AM
I hope the idea spreads to Asian countries, it  will make it a lot easier for us to watch matches held there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 17, 2017, 11:39:33 AM
Feels really weird waiting for the Test to kick off at 2. I like the idea though I hope the weather's warm for those of you going.

I've followed to a certain extent the story of the pink Duke ball, but am mightily puzzled as to why it should behave differently (e.g. go soft quicker, not take a shine) just because they dye it a different colour.

It's because of the contents of the dye
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2017, 12:51:49 PM
The old hippie that is Woofles probably wants the ball tie-dyed :)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 18, 2017, 12:33:43 AM
Went to Edgbaston earlier and have to say that the general feeling seemed to be that it was all a bit underwhelming.  Yes it was a novelty and there was a bit of initial excitement and I know we've got some day/night games coming up over the winter, but it just felt like an unnecessary change to be honest.  The game slowed right down when the lights came on and many people had left way before play finished at 9.30pm.  As a spectator, I found it quite hard to pick the pink ball up at times, especially when it was moving along the ground.

As for the cricket itself, I thought the West Indies were desperately poor.  Roach was quite lively, but the rest of their seamers and spinners were much of a muchness and all bowled loose balls on a regular basis.  In terms of preventing runs, their fielding was actually OK, but some of the throws back to the wicketkeeper were extremely sloppy and to be honest they looked a beaten side quite early on.  Cook and Root were imperious, but there is a big drop off in quality with the other three in the top five, even though Malan played pretty well when he settled a bit. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
443-3 against a bowling attack that looks toothless, now's probably the time to throw the bat at it. With rain coming later and plenty forecast for Sunday we need to get a score that gives us a clear shot at the follow-on but try to get a bit of time in the field today.  A quick 100-150 from here would be brilliant.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 18, 2017, 04:02:38 PM
443-3 against a bowling attack that looks toothless, now's probably the time to throw the bat at it. With rain coming later and plenty forecast for Sunday we need to get a score that gives us a clear shot at the follow-on but try to get a bit of time in the field today.  A quick 100-150 from here would be brilliant.

Well it's for 4 now, so hopefully Stokes will make your wish come true after 'lunch'.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 18, 2017, 04:06:03 PM
An indication of how interesting this Test is, I watched a T20 match in it's entirety last night instead of the Test.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 18, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
An indication of how interesting this Test is, I watched a T20 match in it's entirety last night instead of the Test.

Forget day/night cricket, this is a good advert for two division test cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2017, 04:52:03 PM
An indication of how interesting this Test is, I watched a T20 match in it's entirety last night instead of the Test.

it's sad how poor WI are, no one in this team is fit to carry brinks for the teams from 20-40 years ago.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2017, 04:58:01 PM
443-3 against a bowling attack that looks toothless, now's probably the time to throw the bat at it. With rain coming later and plenty forecast for Sunday we need to get a score that gives us a clear shot at the follow-on but try to get a bit of time in the field today.  A quick 100-150 from here would be brilliant.

Well it's for 4 now, so hopefully Stokes will make your wish come true after 'lunch'.

He tried, I hope they carry on with it, I suspect we'll be losing about 100 overs from this match if the weather reports are to be believed so given we've got enough to be 'safe' on the board already quick runs now is how we give ourselves a real chance to win it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 18, 2017, 05:02:57 PM
Bairstow's no slouch when he wants to get on with it, so let's hope so. With a bit of rain in the air it might well be worth maximising the sessions we have to bowl at them as much as possible.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 18, 2017, 05:03:48 PM
I hope the idea spreads to Asian countries, it  will make it a lot easier for us to watch matches held there.
Similarly they need morning cricket in Australia and New Zealand. Say start at 6 AM?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 18, 2017, 05:19:15 PM
An indication of how interesting this Test is, I watched a T20 match in it's entirety last night instead of the Test.

I have the day off, so this morning I watched the test highlights followed by the Yorkshire innings of the T20.

That was an incredible innings from Lyth
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 18, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
England making a balls of getting up to 600 here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 18, 2017, 05:54:01 PM
An indication of how interesting this Test is, I watched a T20 match in it's entirety last night instead of the Test.

I have the day off, so this morning I watched the test highlights followed by the Yorkshire innings of the T20.

That was an incredible innings from Lyth

He didn't offer any chances and wasn't really slogging either, was quite special!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 18, 2017, 05:54:45 PM
England making a balls of getting up to 600 here.

I would declare now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: London Villan on August 18, 2017, 10:44:43 PM
It was very very wet at the end!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 19, 2017, 05:18:45 PM
Usually like to see the follow-on enforced, but don't think there was any harm in giving the openers a run-out and try to play the debutant into a bit of form. Stick on another 100 or so and put them in under lights in the final session.

400/500 run deficit, what odds. Windies aren't going to get anywhere near that and there is still plenty of time left in the game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 19, 2017, 08:24:21 PM
This is going to be all over tonight. Broad is ripping the Windies apart
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aj2k77 on August 19, 2017, 09:21:56 PM
Sad to see how much of a mismatch this series is.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 19, 2017, 09:36:51 PM
Sad to see how much of a mismatch this series is.

Yep and it is hard to see where the West Indies are going to find anyone to offer any kind of resistance really. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dave shelley on August 20, 2017, 12:52:23 AM
It's quite sad that the Windies can't offer us a game.  I used to dream of a time when they would'nt Blackwash us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 20, 2017, 10:09:56 AM
I think they are missing a few due to a pay dispute.

They'd still be shite though.

Would consider the day/night test a success despite the Windies' incompetence... the attendances were bigger than they would otherwise have been and they got a lot of first time attendees in the ground. Plus it's more convenient as you only need to book a half day off work.

Not sure when we will see it again. It's no good for Asian TV, so you can rule out matches against India and Pakistan. Australia and South Africa sell out anyway. Maybe matches against the likes of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe but these are hardly going to capture the public imagination.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lsvilla on August 20, 2017, 10:29:44 AM
Had this text exchange last night with my mate and chairman of the the cricket club I used to play for...
"Just in case I forget nearer the time we are definitely NOT getting tickets for any edgbaston test next year or any other year most of our guys just drink themselves bloody stupid and then get effing hammered at cricket the next day!!!"

Do I assume we may have lost today !!!

It's not just a defeat sutty I can accept that but our guys get absolutely legless they get fucking hammered last year 65ao this year 72ao fucking embarrassing. 3 never got home at all
The rest drinking all day and night till 6am. Next year we will not give them the excuse.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: andyaston on August 20, 2017, 11:17:36 AM
I love test cricket and having a drink for most is pretty harmless if your sensible about it. However, over the years i've seen more fancy dress and more guys who are really only there for a piss up and think the longer version of the game is boring.

Although i've not been sat behind fancy dress parties, I can imagine as the day wears on it would be a right pain in the arse as many of them stand up more and mess about (generally showing off and not really giving a toss about other spectators). If you tell them to sit down you'd prob be outnumbered and called a bore or a spoilsport.

I went to Old Trafford for the first day of the test v South Africa and it was a fascinating day, 260-6 it finsihed and it was a battle between bat and ball, runs hard to come by. However, some guys in our stand spent half the time at the bar (even after lunch) and half way through the last session left to meet other mates in a pub. Other guys tried to form a beer snake, which is funny but then asking other spectators to join in, when more intersted in the cricket, some didn't and were called bore's as the cricket was supposedly crap.

Shame really, the game does need more spectators (T20, One dayers etc help revenue) but you will attract guys who really aren't that into the longer form of the game and use the day as an excuse for a piss up.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
Shame to see the Windies in this state.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 20, 2017, 12:39:08 PM
As we arrived at New Street there were a load of blokes obviously on their way to Edgbaston already half cut with their 'fancy dress' tucked under their arms. Can't think of a worse day at Test cricket than watching it amongst a bunch of pissed up, lairy blokes in fancy dress desperately trying to get on TV and chanting the same moronic chants all day. Save it for the T20.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
As we arrived at New Street there were a load of blokes obviously on their way to Edgbaston already half cut with their 'fancy dress' tucked under their arms. Can't think of a worse day at Test cricket than watching it amongst a bunch of pissed up, lairy blokes in fancy dress desperately trying to get on TV and chanting the same moronic chants all day. Save it for the T20.

I was listening to it on the radio while sat in traffic on the M6.  I never want to hear that bloody "don't take me home" chant, ever, ever again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Nev on August 21, 2017, 07:56:43 AM
Edgbaston affords options when watching the cricket, two years ago we sat in the West Stand upper for the Ashes match. The cricket was the be all and end all for everyone sat in the stand, no fancy dress, no singing or drunken behaviour.

On Friday we chose the Hollies, mainly down to the likelihood of the match being one sided and far less interesting. Yes, the songs can get tiresome but the early curtailment put paid to that and the atmosphere was great throughout the afternoon. You can still enjoy the game but there is so much going on it can be distracting. I still got to see Cooks's double century though and we all had a good day out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 21, 2017, 03:25:37 PM
As we arrived at New Street there were a load of blokes obviously on their way to Edgbaston already half cut with their 'fancy dress' tucked under their arms. Can't think of a worse day at Test cricket than watching it amongst a bunch of pissed up, lairy blokes in fancy dress desperately trying to get on TV and chanting the same moronic chants all day. Save it for the T20.

Or rather not at all.  It can totally spoil the experience to be honest, as I 've seen the kind of groups you have perfectly described become abusive and insulting to people who are just there to watch the cricket.  There was a group in the Raglan Stand on Thursday night who fell into that category and one of them was wandering around mouthing off at people (and this was at 'lunch').  Thankfully they were not too near me and were escorted out pretty quickly.  I guess the whole 'Barmy Army' thing attracts that kind of behaviour and to be honest it's not something that particularly appeals to me (hilarious 'beer snakes' that shower anyone unfortunate enough to be caught under them with warm beer, throwing inflatables around etc.), but I guess the grounds want to maximise their income.     
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 21, 2017, 04:45:24 PM
Only reason I said to save it for T20 is that I never attend any. Does that prat that looks like Savile still lead them with his trumpet? He's the Sheffield Wednesday band gone solo.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Nev on August 21, 2017, 04:59:44 PM
Due to the monsoon-like conditions on Friday we took refuge in the Tally Ho, where, unbeknown to us, the Barmy Army take over and you can have a few drinks after (and before) the game. We were only in for a short while but during that time some sort of band came on, all acoustic instruments and England Cricket songs. I'm probably being rather unfair here but what with the red, white and blue décor throughout the room it reminded me of "Half A Shilling" from Phoenix Nights.

I'd had a few mind.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 22, 2017, 09:46:10 AM
Only reason I said to save it for T20 is that I never attend any. Does that prat that looks like Savile still lead them with his trumpet? He's the Sheffield Wednesday band gone solo.

No idea, though I'm guessing he might keep more of a low profile these days after recent revelations about his lookalike.  There was one idiot running up and down the front of the Hollies Stand on Thursday (don't know if it was him) trying to start an 'Icelandic Thunderclap' in the different sections.   I think the trumpeter is someone else, but I certainly wouldn't want to be near any of them if I went to a test abroad.   

   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2017, 03:40:44 PM
Woakes back in for TRJ for the test starting tomorrow, probably the right thing to do, Woakes needs the game time to kick on in his recovery and TRJ has already secured his place in the squad for Oz.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: shirley_villan on August 24, 2017, 03:48:59 PM
Only reason I said to save it for T20 is that I never attend any. Does that prat that looks like Savile still lead them with his trumpet? He's the Sheffield Wednesday band gone solo.

He cut his hair after the Saville revelations.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 11:19:15 AM
England won the toss and are batting, fairly quiet first few overs.

10-0 (4)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 11:44:40 AM
Cook went quite cheap (great low catch in the slips though) so now is where we see if Stoneman and Westley can step up and make a partnership.  Our problem in the last couple of years has been that if Cook and Root don't score big then we don't so these 2 need to show that they have the ability and temperament to address that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 25, 2017, 11:54:31 AM
Doesn't seem to matter what the opposition are or what the conditions are, England are generally 30-2.

Westley's flaw of bringing the bat down at that angle should be terminal to his ashes hopes. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of replacements though

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 11:54:31 AM
26-2

Westley LBW is starting to look a bit familiar, good delivery to him but he needs to fix that technical flaw if he wants to play at this level.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
and now Stoneman has gone, thin inside edge to the keeper for 19, can't fault him much, very good delivery, seem was wobbling a lot.

37-3

We really need Malan to hang around with Root for a bit now.  It is Headingley under clouds though so 250-300 is probably a decent score but we've got work to do to even get to there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2017, 01:14:00 PM
Bad drop at first slip to reprieve Root
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 01:56:25 PM
71-4

terrible shot from Malan to play on.  The ball didn't really do anything, he just misread the line.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Score looks a little more respectable now at 124-4 and Root/Stokes are, again, building a decent partnership.  From the conditions I honestly think 300 is a good score on here.  As well as the cloud the pitch is already cutting up quite badly in the footholes, it certainly doesn't look like it's only seen 42 overs, Gabriel in particular has done a number on one end.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2017, 03:09:43 PM
I really should know better than to type stuff like that...

Root gone.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2017, 04:00:39 PM
Pretty weak from England this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2017, 04:04:00 PM
England once again showing a weak streak that is always there. Need to eliminate this before the ashes otherwise it could be very tough tour.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2017, 04:09:37 PM
Agreed, I still think Hameed is the opener to persevere with. I also think Hales at 5 might make sense.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 25, 2017, 05:35:54 PM
Ordinary at best batting performance.

WI let us off the hook quite a bit to be honest. Could have easily bowled us out for 150-175 if they'd taken some pretty simple chances.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2017, 05:58:54 PM
Are the West Indies now officially the Windies?

One of the commentators earlier said West Indies but then corrected himself by saying; "sorry, I mean Windies'

I suppose, "English speaking part of the Caribbean and a small bit of South America" is too long
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Andy Poole on August 25, 2017, 06:08:32 PM
Windies has been adopted as the 'Brand'


You'd have thought they'd make sure their cricket was worthy of being referred to a a 'brand' first!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 25, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
Much better bowling performance from the Windies and they've exposed our problems at the top of the order again.  Seeing as they have frailties in their batting line up as well then it could be quite an exciting test. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 26, 2017, 12:47:33 AM
England's refusal to bow to conventional cricket logic is a bit baffling. Why is Root in at 4 and not 3? The abject failure of the top order has shown he's fine against the new ball, so why not just go with it? Why isn't Buttler even apparently in contention for Tests when Westley etc are given multiple tries? Buttler has at least shown the ability to take on international attacks. It's such a weird, ornate dance that the selectors are prancing around common sense. Just do the obvious for once, and see if it works.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2017, 12:50:02 AM
England's refusal to bow to conventional cricket logic is a bit baffling. Why is Root in at 4 and not 3? The abject failure of the top order has shown he's fine against the new ball, so why not just go with it? Why isn't Buttler even apparently in contention for Tests when Westley etc are given multiple tries? Buttler has at least shown the ability to take on international attacks. It's such a weird, ornate dance that the selectors are prancing around common sense. Just do the obvious for once, and see if it works.

I think the rumour is that Root himself wants to bat at four and feels most comfortable there. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 26, 2017, 01:19:21 AM
I'm sure he does, but right now he's practically batting at two and would help sort out a selection conundrum by going in at 3.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 26, 2017, 08:04:50 AM
England's refusal to bow to conventional cricket logic is a bit baffling. Why is Root in at 4 and not 3? The abject failure of the top order has shown he's fine against the new ball, so why not just go with it? Why isn't Buttler even apparently in contention for Tests when Westley etc are given multiple tries? Buttler has at least shown the ability to take on international attacks. It's such a weird, ornate dance that the selectors are prancing around common sense. Just do the obvious for once, and see if it works.

Buttler will surely go to Oz, and I did wonder why they haven't given him another go, even if his Test average (31) is so-so for 30 innings. However, unless I'm barking up the wrong tree, he has only two 1st Class innings all season with and average of 10! Even so, I'd recall him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Andy Poole on August 26, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
Buttler hasn't got enough red ball runs for Lancs. Something he admits himself.

Hales asked to bat down the order for Notts, he's scored well and should be in the Ashes squad.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2017, 10:41:05 AM
I'm sure he does, but right now he's practically batting at two and would help sort out a selection conundrum by going in at 3.

It doesn't really solve the selection issue, it just shoves it to number four.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2017, 10:42:08 AM
Buttler hasn't got enough red ball runs for Lancs. Something he admits himself.

Hales asked to bat down the order for Notts, he's scored well and should be in the Ashes squad.

Need to look at Hales at five in this series really. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 26, 2017, 10:52:04 AM
Buttler hasn't got enough red ball runs for Lancs. Something he admits himself.

Hales asked to bat down the order for Notts, he's scored well and should be in the Ashes squad.

Need to look at Hales at five in this series really. 

Yep, that's the change I'd be going with, Hales has earned a chance and he's shown that he's not overawed at international level with some very good ODI and iT20 performances.

I don't know what we do about 2-3 but I'd leave Root where he is for now (and I wouldn't try to solve anything by moving any of the middle/lower order up either).

Could it be worth a look at Buttler opening and tell him to swing a bit and try to see off the opening bowlers quickly.  It's not a long term solution I'm happy with but someone to make real use of the early pace and duff the leather up a bit, it might also spread the field a little sooner if we're piling on some early runs.  Right now we neither score big or quick so if we can't find someone to bring the former then lets give the latter a go and see if we can get teams on the back foot.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on August 26, 2017, 11:24:53 AM
If we don't get the top order sorted, the Aussies are going to run riot.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 26, 2017, 11:32:57 AM
That's my concern. We will get away with it against the Westdies, but the Aussie bowlers will have a laugh against our top order.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 26, 2017, 03:45:03 PM
We're in some difficulty here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 27, 2017, 10:16:07 AM
Stokes is very close to a suspension now. We really don't need that to happen in the Ashes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 27, 2017, 10:22:11 AM
I think England can learn from Hope and Braithwaite. Sometimes you need to occupy the crease.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 27, 2017, 11:10:18 AM
I think England can learn from Hope and Braithwaite. Sometimes you need to occupy the crease.

You need to actually be at the crease to do that!!  Problem with three of our top five is that they aren't generally there long enough to do that.

What a first over at Headingley!!  If we can get them out sharpish and bat very well, we still might pull this one out. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on August 27, 2017, 11:18:57 AM
That's my concern. We will get away with it against the Westdies, but the Aussie bowlers will have a laugh against our top order.

The pitches are probably going to be fairly flat, as they've been for a long time. If 6-9 bat as well as advertised, there shouldn't be too many problems.

I think I'd be more concerned about whether the bowling attack is good enough to pick up 20 wickets.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 27, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
I wish TMS would get rid of Graeme Swann and replace him with James Taylor then Swann can watch the Tests in fancy dress with some kind of inflatable with his 'wacky'mates. His West Indian accents this morning were reminicisent of Jim 'Chalky' Davidson, Aggers always seems slightly irritated by him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Monty on August 27, 2017, 03:39:56 PM
I wish TMS would get rid of Graeme Swann and replace him with James Taylor then Swann can watch the Tests in fancy dress with some kind of inflatable with his 'wacky'mates. His West Indian accents this morning were reminicisent of Jim 'Chalky' Davidson, Aggers always seems slightly irritated by him.

He's a twat isn't he? He's got this aggressive alpha 'banter' thing where he has to turn every conversation into an arm-wrestle. It's uncomfortable to listen to, to be honest.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Andy Poole on August 27, 2017, 03:43:12 PM
I wish TMS would get rid of Graeme Swann and replace him with James Taylor then Swann can watch the Tests in fancy dress with some kind of inflatable with his 'wacky'mates. His West Indian accents this morning were reminicisent of Jim 'Chalky' Davidson, Aggers always seems slightly irritated by him.

I was thinking that. It was cringe worthy.

The two new boys now have a chance to guarantee a place on the plane to Australia.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 27, 2017, 04:21:55 PM
England are feeling a bit 90s with selections at the moment, I bet that's probably someone in for Westley now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villafirst on August 27, 2017, 04:37:25 PM
Westley and Jennings won't cut it at test level. Shuffle the order and put Jos Buttler in instead? Say at six?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 27, 2017, 04:40:00 PM
1,2 and 3 positions must be sorted pdq. Cook is one of those it's the other two batters England need to find solid enough to thwart Aussie quickies at Perth and Adelaide.☹️
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 27, 2017, 06:21:00 PM
I wish TMS would get rid of Graeme Swann and replace him with James Taylor then Swann can watch the Tests in fancy dress with some kind of inflatable with his 'wacky'mates. His West Indian accents this morning were reminicisent of Jim 'Chalky' Davidson, Aggers always seems slightly irritated by him.

I don't mind Swann most of the time but he does seem to be trying too hard to be wacky and the humour seems forced.

Unlike, say, Tuffers who is funny and insightful
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 27, 2017, 06:21:55 PM
I know that the Windies have dropped some catches but Moeen's earlier to day was worse than any of them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 27, 2017, 06:22:34 PM
Wow, Jason Holder has finally remembered that Bishoo is on the field
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on August 27, 2017, 06:30:02 PM
25 no balls in this over so far.

Have we got some sub continent betting shenanigans going on here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 27, 2017, 07:21:49 PM
25 no balls in an over!? I'm assuming that's innings but yeah that's a lot.

Stoneman will probably make the tour now, and if Malan makes a significant score he'll have done enough.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 27, 2017, 10:22:07 PM
England are feeling a bit 90s with selections at the moment, I bet that's probably someone in for Westley now.

Not sure it's that bad Paul!!  Back then we would just lurch wildly in terms of selection and make up of the team.  We're not in that position now, just struggling to find good options in three positions.

Mentioned it before, but it is a bit worrying that fairly experienced domestic players are coming into the international scene with massive technical flaws that are getting immediately worked out.

In terms of this test, will be interesting if we can set a target in the region of 270+ and conditions get a little more bowler friendly. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 28, 2017, 11:58:44 AM
Root is an excellent player, with an excellent record.

However, his conversion rate from fifties to hundreds is pretty ordinary and is why he is probably behind the likes of Steve Smith, Williamson and Kohli. Root's made fifties in 12 consecutive test matches and has only turned 3 of them into hundreds
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 28, 2017, 05:37:06 PM
Good comeback from England.  Declaration tonight and give the Windies a few overs to bat?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 28, 2017, 07:01:00 PM
Moeen is tremendous.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 28, 2017, 11:22:59 PM
Lot of great players in this England team when I compare it with what I grew up with in 90s. Even the fading oldies like Cook, Jimmy and Broad are still decent. Root is the most talented English cricketer I've ever seen and quite possibly will ever see. Moeen and Stokes are both outstanding all rounders with Woakes and TRJ nor far behind. Bairstow another quality all rounder as wk/batsman. If Malan and Stoneman step up I can see a good winter ahead. Good days to be an England cricket fan.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 29, 2017, 12:10:07 AM
Lot of great players in this England team when I compare it with what I grew up with in 90s. Even the fading oldies like Cook, Jimmy and Broad are still decent. Root is the most talented English cricketer I've ever seen and quite possibly will ever see. Moeen and Stokes are both outstanding all rounders with Woakes and TRJ nor far behind. Bairstow another quality all rounder as wk/batsman. If Malan and Stoneman step up I can see a good winter ahead. Good days to be an England cricket fan.

As shown today, (and when Woakes gets back to full bowling sharpness) the 6-11 part of the side is a very strong unit with both bat and ball.  It's the best English lower order batting line up I have seen.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 29, 2017, 12:24:32 PM
windies 61/2 chasing 322.  2nd wicket is one for the highlights apparently.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 29, 2017, 01:33:20 PM
windies 61/2 chasing 322.  2nd wicket is one for the highlights apparently.

Yep, really fluky. Unlucky for Hope
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 29, 2017, 01:43:15 PM
Good to hear my fellow Forester, Steve James on the TMS journalist panel during lunch.

I knew him when we were kids and later on we occasionally played in the same rugby team.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 29, 2017, 01:47:51 PM
This is pretty well poised now, with all three results still possible.  I would say a draw is favourite, with not much between a win for either side. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 29, 2017, 02:26:06 PM
Since I turned up at Headingley we haven't taken a wicket. Apologies to all.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 29, 2017, 02:38:35 PM
How did the conversation on TMS get round to cheating at Chess ?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 29, 2017, 03:13:07 PM
This could well be a match winning partnership for the West Indies.  We're going to have to do something pretty special to wrestle back momentum now.   

Looks like the draw is now less likely and one side will end up winning it, with Windies surely now being favourites. 

Should be some last session. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 29, 2017, 05:19:10 PM
This could well be a match winning partnership for the West Indies.  We're going to have to do something pretty special to wrestle back momentum now.   

Looks like the draw is now less likely and one side will end up winning it, with Windies surely now being favourites. 

Should be some last session.

I think they're cruising to victory. Stupid declaration at 1-0 in the final test.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ad@m on August 29, 2017, 05:24:08 PM
This could well be a match winning partnership for the West Indies.  We're going to have to do something pretty special to wrestle back momentum now.   

Looks like the draw is now less likely and one side will end up winning it, with Windies surely now being favourites. 

Should be some last session.

I think they're cruising to victory. Stupid declaration at 1-0 in the final test.

Yep, people criticised Cook for being overly cautious with his declarations but Root's hopefully learnt a valuable lesson in this test.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 29, 2017, 06:11:48 PM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ad@m on August 29, 2017, 06:22:39 PM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

Yes, there seems a lot of opinion on the BBC feed that Root did the right thing and well done the Windies for chasing it down.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same had it been Australia in the Ashes instead of the plucky little Windies...
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Andy Poole on August 29, 2017, 06:24:14 PM
Maybe England could have batted until close but I think the declaration was the right thing to do.
I'd add that pretty much every T.M.S. person thought it was the correct decision.

It's made for a great days cricket.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 29, 2017, 06:54:09 PM
Well done West Indies great effort. England were poor, but hopefully this is a launch pad for the Windies.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 29, 2017, 07:41:58 PM
Well done West Indies a superb test match win.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 29, 2017, 07:46:04 PM
There was nothing wrong with declaration. 321 was a good target to set however not being able to win from that position is not good enough and not being able to defend is very poor cricket. Broad and Anderson as senior quick strikers must take this on the chin and reevaluate their own effectiveness.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villa Lew on August 29, 2017, 08:13:53 PM
Great viewing, well done the Windies, under the circumstances Shai Hope's knock must go down as one of the great Test innings.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 29, 2017, 08:24:03 PM
Disappointing day today. I think that the declaration was OK, you should be able to bowl a team out for under 320 in a fourth innings.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 29, 2017, 08:49:23 PM
Very good win for the Windies and hopefully they can build on that.  World cricket needs as many strong teams as possible and hopefully a few of those currently in test exile will see that and want to return.  Gabriel coming back was a big boost for them and dismissing us pretty cheaply in the first innings gave them a bit of confidence.

As for us, that poor first innings really cost us.  I didn't think the declaration was that bad a decision, but Woakes looked undercooked in terms of bowling and we missed Roland-Jones, who has been a good foil for Broad and Anderson this summer.

Sets the decider at Lords up nicely now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 29, 2017, 09:10:37 PM
Woakes needs bowling in his legs, he was well down in this game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on August 29, 2017, 09:52:57 PM
Nothing wrong with that declaration, a game that was a true game on day 5 was such a brilliant rarity....much rather a sporting declaration than an overly cautious one.

Agree ref missing Roland-Jones but hopefully that test will be the miles in Woakes legs as in the bigger picture he is a better 3rd seamer.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 29, 2017, 10:43:18 PM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

I was quite happy with it. 9/10 you win a match from that position. England just didn't bowl brilliantly and dropped easy catches. Not Root's fault.

Hopefully this will have a happy side effect of reigniting love for the test game in the Caribbean.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on August 30, 2017, 12:02:21 AM
Nothing wrong with that declaration, a game that was a true game on day 5 was such a brilliant rarity....much rather a sporting declaration than an overly cautious one.

Agree ref missing Roland-Jones but hopefully that test will be the miles in Woakes legs as in the bigger picture he is a better 3rd seamer.

I agree regarding Woakes and although he made a telling contribution with the bat, he looked undercooked with the ball.  He is undoubtedly the best option as the third seamer when fully fit, but I don't know if this was a bit too soon for him.  Roland-Jones has had a very good summer and must consider himself very unlucky to be dropped. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 30, 2017, 08:04:10 AM
Exciting finish in the Bangladesh vs Australia test. Aussies need 48 to win with two wickets remaining.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on August 30, 2017, 08:36:04 AM
Bangladesh win by 20 runs  :) ;D
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on August 30, 2017, 08:49:36 AM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

Yes, there seems a lot of opinion on the BBC feed that Root did the right thing and well done the Windies for chasing it down.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same had it been Australia in the Ashes instead of the plucky little Windies...

Pretty sure he wouldn't have declared if it was against the Aussies. The declaration was presumably linked to the fact they have barely won a game for ages and that they had been rolled over twice recently for not very many by England.

Hats off to the West Indies - a great game of (proper) cricket.
 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ad@m on August 30, 2017, 08:53:10 AM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

Yes, there seems a lot of opinion on the BBC feed that Root did the right thing and well done the Windies for chasing it down.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same had it been Australia in the Ashes instead of the plucky little Windies...

Pretty sure he wouldn't have declared if it was against the Aussies. The declaration was presumably linked to the fact they have barely won a game for ages and that they had been rolled over twice recently for not very many by England.

Hats off to the West Indies - a great game of (proper) cricket.
 

Precisely my point.  It was the cricketing equivalent of sending the reserves out in a cup game against lower league opposition and losing 3-0.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on August 30, 2017, 10:34:34 AM
There's nothing wrong with deploying difficult tactics against different opponents. Had we been one up in a series against the Aussies, we probably wouldn't have declared. It doesn't mean it was the incorrect decision on this occasion.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on August 30, 2017, 10:36:35 AM
There's nothing wrong with deploying difficult tactics against different opponents. Had we been one up in a series against the Aussies, we probably wouldn't have declared. It doesn't mean it was the incorrect decision on this occasion.

That's my view. Declaring against a struggling Windies team was the right thing to do.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on August 30, 2017, 10:59:09 AM
There was nothing wrong with the declaration and i hope Root remembers that.  We didn't catch well, we got caught out in the worst batting conditions of the match (but still left 50-100 runs on the pitch in the first innings) and the bowling wasn't the right length for the pitch.  1-2 of those problems you can get away with but all 3 and you're going to struggle against anyone.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 30, 2017, 11:00:14 AM
I doubt there's anyone who seriously thought the WI had a chance of chasing down those runs. It was definitely correct to declare in my opinion.

Hope and Brathwaite batted superbly, we bowled poorly and the pitch seemed to be strangely quieter than the day before.

I do fear for us in Australia at the moment
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 30, 2017, 11:46:46 AM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

Yes, there seems a lot of opinion on the BBC feed that Root did the right thing and well done the Windies for chasing it down.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same had it been Australia in the Ashes instead of the plucky little Windies...

Pretty sure he wouldn't have declared if it was against the Aussies. The declaration was presumably linked to the fact they have barely won a game for ages and that they had been rolled over twice recently for not very many by England.

Hats off to the West Indies - a great game of (proper) cricket.
 

Precisely my point.  It was the cricketing equivalent of sending the reserves out in a cup game against lower league opposition and losing 3-0.

No it wasn't.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Ad@m on August 30, 2017, 11:54:49 AM
And yet I've just heard Michael Atherton and Michael Holding saying what a good declaration it was and no blame should be attached there.

Nobody on here ever seems happy with the timing of the declaration!

Yes, there seems a lot of opinion on the BBC feed that Root did the right thing and well done the Windies for chasing it down.

I wonder if the opinion would be the same had it been Australia in the Ashes instead of the plucky little Windies...

Pretty sure he wouldn't have declared if it was against the Aussies. The declaration was presumably linked to the fact they have barely won a game for ages and that they had been rolled over twice recently for not very many by England.

Hats off to the West Indies - a great game of (proper) cricket.
 

Precisely my point.  It was the cricketing equivalent of sending the reserves out in a cup game against lower league opposition and losing 3-0.

No it wasn't.

Root underestimated the Windies because they're a bit crap at the moment and got a bloody nose for it.

If the next test went exactly the same way, he declared at the same point and the Windies chased it down again would people say he did the right thing again?

I'm not saying it was the wrong decision but that doesn't mean he can't learn from it.  He's an extremely young captain and that decision (and the subsequent 4th innings performance of his team) could end up being part of the reason we lose a home test series to a team ranked one place above Bangladesh!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 30, 2017, 03:31:29 PM
I doubt very much that Root made the decision on his own. No one could predict Broad would bowl so brainlessly in the evening, that the pitch would suddenly decide not to spin, that they'd drop Brathwaite twice early in his innings. It's a supreme bit of second guessing to say it was a poor decision.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on August 30, 2017, 03:39:25 PM
I heard Trevor Bayliss on TMS say it was a decision made by Root, Stokes and himself. I haven't heard criticism of the decision from any of the many ex players, commentators or summarisers.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: AVH87 on August 30, 2017, 03:43:38 PM
If you played that scenario out 10 more times, the Windies would do well to win one of them.

Cook couldn't catch a cold, and a guy went on to get hundreds in both innings which has never, ever been done at that ground before.

We take it on the chin, no concerns over getting back on track at Lords.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 30, 2017, 06:39:31 PM
I agreed with the decision to declare and that sort of bold play would result in more wins than draws/losses in the long-term. The Windies batted exceptionally well and our bowling was below par. Root's problem was that he placed his reliance on the senior bowlers and they didn't deliver, and the change bowlers just weren't on it. That combined with our inability to catch meant we lost.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 30, 2017, 08:03:23 PM
Bangladesh win by 20 runs  :) ;D
The two Test results in the last 24 hours are very good for world cricket. Well done Bangladesh.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on August 30, 2017, 08:04:35 PM
Again there was nothing wrong with declaration IMO.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dcdavecollett on August 30, 2017, 08:22:01 PM
Poor captaincy from Root cost us the match.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aj2k77 on August 30, 2017, 08:27:17 PM
Worryingly we lose a test after winning one again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 30, 2017, 09:39:29 PM
"Illustrating the scale of the achievement, only Don Bradman’s ‘Invincibles’ have made more runs in the fourth innings to win a test in Leeds".

Seriously, would anyone on here have had much more than a fiver on this(that) Windies side chasing down 320-odd? I wouldn't. I genuinely expected us to have it wrapped up well before tea. To bat on and leave them chasing, what, 400? With our attack? Nah. Fuck that. Little dabble late on the fourth, winkle one out, home tomorrow and feet up in time for Countdown.

This is what sport's about. The mental fortitude shown to win this game was immense. Superb, sirs, fucking superb.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 30, 2017, 11:06:57 PM
Absolutely nothing wrong with the declaration, and any team that chases down 320 in the last inning deserves all the credit rather than people focusing on that decision. Shai Hope's innings was brilliant, and let's hope his attitude and demeanour for the long game rubs off on some of his less keen colleagues, Test cricket is always a better place for a strong Windies team.
 The thing that got me was the seemingly sudden lack of spin, the previous couple of days the ball had been moving all over the place, yet when Ali got it on the last day there was barely any spin. We all know Ali can bowl opponents out on wearing wickets so I'll put this one down to a strange anomaly rather than Ali's ability.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on August 30, 2017, 11:10:55 PM
Poor captaincy from Root cost us the match.

Care to expand on this, or are you solely going on the declaration? I thought he rotated the bowlers well, would have expected more movement from Ali (see above), can't be blamed for dropped catches, did his bit with the bat and I don't remember any howlers on the review side. Sometimes you just have to take a defeat on the chin despite everything.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2017, 07:11:15 AM
Worryingly we lose a test after winning one again.

It's not the same at all though. We actually showed real fight in adversity this time and had totally turned round the match to be in a winning position. We were just beaten by a brilliant last innings. It wasn't so much us losing, as the West Indies winning if that makes sense. There are obviously still issues in the England side but they'd have been present in a win or a defeat.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 02, 2017, 07:24:30 PM
Hi Dave Cooper.

My criticism of Root had nothing to do with the declaration.

My complaints are: 1. Why no short-leg in when the ball was only five overs old at the start of the day?

2. Why no third man when the ball went soft -this must have cost circa fifty runs!

3. Why only five overs from Stokes?

PS. It wasn't his fault that Woakes wasn't fully fit to bowl.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 04, 2017, 03:36:12 PM
Yikes.

Star India (a Fox company...) have paid the BCCI £1.97bn for a 5 year contract to televise the IPL. No wonder cricket dances to their tune.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on September 04, 2017, 04:41:24 PM
Kieron Pollard has been criticised on social media after bowling a no-ball which denied opposition batsman Evin Lewis the chance of a century in a Caribbean Premier League match.

Pollard bowled a big no-ball when Lewis was on 97 off 32 balls, with St Kitts and Nevis Patriots needing one run to beat Barbados Tridents in the Twenty20 competition.The no-ball gave 25-year-old Lewis' side the win but saw him miss out on the chance of a ton after he and captain Chris Gayle reached 129-0.

Cricket statistician and journalist Mazher Arshad said: "So Kieron Pollard bowls a no-ball to deny Evin Lewis a hundred in CPL. Suraj Randiv was suspended for a match when he did that to [Virender] Sehwag in 2010."

Cricket supporter Mainraj Paudel called Pollard's actions a "shameless act" on Twitter, while another spectator, Abhishek Chaturvedi, accused Pollard of showing "zero sportsmanship".

Lewis, however, was more diplomatic.In a televised post-match interview, he said: "It hurts [missing out on the hundred], but hitting 97 not out off 33 balls? I'll take that any day."I've been hitting the ball long and hard in the nets. I'm confident now and looking forward to the play-offs."

If Lewis had completed his century in 33 balls, it would have been the second fastest of all time - just behind Chris Gayle's 30-ball IPL knock in 2013.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on September 04, 2017, 07:50:15 PM
It's just not cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on September 05, 2017, 04:57:55 AM
West Indies batsman Marlon Samuels has warned England's Ben Stokes to "stay on the boundary" in the limited-overs matches this month.

The pair have clashed several times, notably when Samuels saluted after Stokes' dismissal in a Test in 2015.

The sides play a solitary Twenty20 at Durham on 16 September, before a five-ODI series starts on 19 September.

"I'm going to come to England and be a good boy, at least for the start," 36-year-old Samuels told the Guardian.

"As long as he keeps quiet, I won't start anything, so if anything does happen that means he has said something to me first.

"He should stay on the boundary when I'm batting, as far away as possible."

Stokes and Samuels exchanged words during the second Test in Grenada in 2015, after which Samuels said "the English boys don't learn".

When Stokes was dismissed later in the game, Samuels stood and saluted as the all-rounder left the field.

Stokes, 26, said Samuels "lacks respect" after he put his feet on the table during a news conference following West Indies' World T20 final victory over England in 2016.

Samuels added: "He wanted to take me on a couple of years ago. He started something and I told him he better be prepared to finish it.

"But I saw him during the IPL this year and he didn't say anything. I hope he can continue on that path. If not, I have things in place."

Stokes, who was reprimanded for using "obscene, offensive or insulting" language during the second Test West Indies at Headingley, is one demerit point away from a ban.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 05, 2017, 09:39:48 AM
West Indies batsman Marlon Samuels has warned England's Ben Stokes to "stay on the boundary" in the limited-overs matches this month.

The pair have clashed several times, notably when Samuels saluted after Stokes' dismissal in a Test in 2015.

The sides play a solitary Twenty20 at Durham on 16 September, before a five-ODI series starts on 19 September.

"I'm going to come to England and be a good boy, at least for the start," 36-year-old Samuels told the Guardian.

"As long as he keeps quiet, I won't start anything, so if anything does happen that means he has said something to me first.

"He should stay on the boundary when I'm batting, as far away as possible."

Stokes and Samuels exchanged words during the second Test in Grenada in 2015, after which Samuels said "the English boys don't learn".

When Stokes was dismissed later in the game, Samuels stood and saluted as the all-rounder left the field.

Stokes, 26, said Samuels "lacks respect" after he put his feet on the table during a news conference following West Indies' World T20 final victory over England in 2016.

Samuels added: "He wanted to take me on a couple of years ago. He started something and I told him he better be prepared to finish it.

"But I saw him during the IPL this year and he didn't say anything. I hope he can continue on that path. If not, I have things in place."

Stokes, who was reprimanded for using "obscene, offensive or insulting" language during the second Test West Indies at Headingley, is one demerit point away from a ban.

caught something on the radio yesterday that Stokes and Ali aren't going to be playing in some of the upcoming games.  Not sure if it was just the T20 or the whole ODI series. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 05, 2017, 10:29:14 AM
West Indies batsman Marlon Samuels has warned England's Ben Stokes to "stay on the boundary" in the limited-overs matches this month.

The pair have clashed several times, notably when Samuels saluted after Stokes' dismissal in a Test in 2015.

The sides play a solitary Twenty20 at Durham on 16 September, before a five-ODI series starts on 19 September.

"I'm going to come to England and be a good boy, at least for the start," 36-year-old Samuels told the Guardian.

"As long as he keeps quiet, I won't start anything, so if anything does happen that means he has said something to me first.

"He should stay on the boundary when I'm batting, as far away as possible."

Stokes and Samuels exchanged words during the second Test in Grenada in 2015, after which Samuels said "the English boys don't learn".

When Stokes was dismissed later in the game, Samuels stood and saluted as the all-rounder left the field.

Stokes, 26, said Samuels "lacks respect" after he put his feet on the table during a news conference following West Indies' World T20 final victory over England in 2016.

Samuels added: "He wanted to take me on a couple of years ago. He started something and I told him he better be prepared to finish it.

"But I saw him during the IPL this year and he didn't say anything. I hope he can continue on that path. If not, I have things in place."

Stokes, who was reprimanded for using "obscene, offensive or insulting" language during the second Test West Indies at Headingley, is one demerit point away from a ban.

caught something on the radio yesterday that Stokes and Ali aren't going to be playing in some of the upcoming games.  Not sure if it was just the T20 or the whole ODI series. 

I think they're being rested just for the T20.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 06, 2017, 03:38:33 PM
They've dropped Woakes for Toby Roland-Jones.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 06, 2017, 05:20:36 PM
They've dropped Woakes for Toby Roland-Jones.
Quite happy with that if they allow him to play for Bears Next Week. They cited he lacks overs, so if they omit him then deny him opportunity to get overs in for us then it's wrong
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
He has to play for Bears this week.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2017, 07:06:16 PM
They've dropped Woakes for Toby Roland-Jones.
Quite happy with that if they allow him to play for Bears Next Week. They cited he lacks overs, so if they omit him then deny him opportunity to get overs in for us then it's wrong

It seems strnage that they didn't make the call a couple of days earlier so he could've played against somerset but yes he has to be allowed to play the next match or they'll have fucked up massively with him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 07, 2017, 09:48:46 AM
I'm still not sure about the decision to drop him, as surely Roland-Jones could have come back in and Woakes could have been used more as an all-rounder, easing himself back in.  Malan could have been tried at three instead of Westley, whose technical flaws look too great to conquer at test level. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2017, 09:57:46 AM
Blowers' last game on TMS
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 07, 2017, 09:59:07 AM
I'm still not sure about the decision to drop him, as surely Roland-Jones could have come back in and Woakes could have been used more as an all-rounder, easing himself back in.  Malan could have been tried at three instead of Westley, whose technical flaws look too great to conquer at test level. 

The problem with that is that it leaves us with a 6 man attack and a bowler who needs overs to find his rhythm might not get too many chances in that situation.  a couple of championship matches is much more use to us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 07, 2017, 10:16:02 AM
I'm still not sure about the decision to drop him, as surely Roland-Jones could have come back in and Woakes could have been used more as an all-rounder, easing himself back in.  Malan could have been tried at three instead of Westley, whose technical flaws look too great to conquer at test level. 

The problem with that is that it leaves us with a 6 man attack and a bowler who needs overs to find his rhythm might not get too many chances in that situation.  a couple of championship matches is much more use to us.

Oh as a Bears fan I definitely agree Paul!!  It's just that with him being as good with the bat as he is then it changes things a bit.  Saying that, I thought it was a bit harsh to drop Roland-Jones in the last test as he has taken some important wickets this summer. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2017, 02:05:11 PM
I hate a 6 man bowling attack, it's just too many options and somebody goes unused.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2017, 04:07:42 PM
I've said before that I don't mind Graeme Swann as much as others do. However, his funny voices are doing my head in a bit today
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2017, 04:11:42 PM
Peter Baxter's blog

http://www.aftertestmatchspecial.com/2017/
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on September 07, 2017, 04:34:29 PM
I've said before that I don't mind Graeme Swann as much as others do. However, his funny voices are doing my head in a bit today

Is he doing his 'hilarious' West Indian accent?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2017, 04:56:23 PM
Stokes had it hooping. Windies tailenders stood no chance
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on September 07, 2017, 05:58:32 PM
Our top order are leaving it late to find form before The Ashes.
I fear for them on a bunsen in Perth.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2017, 06:31:55 PM
Yes not overly resilient.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2017, 06:40:55 PM
In fairness it was horrendous conditions to bat in, and only Root can be classed as giving his wicket away.

Shannon Gabriel in particular bowled one or 2 brilliant balls at around 92/93 mph and seaming all over the place

Great days cricket
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 07, 2017, 06:48:28 PM
From the little bit I've seen the conditions and the pitch really aren't suited to trying to dig in, look at cook, he played it safe and then got done by an absolute beauty that was almost unplayable.

When Stokes and Malan played a little more aggressively it looked a little easier.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2017, 06:54:44 PM
Yeah you've definitely got to try to get the bowlers out of a rhythm.

Difficult to do under lights when the red ball is harder to pick up though in fairness
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 07, 2017, 06:58:18 PM
Yeah you've definitely got to try to get the bowlers out of a rhythm.

Difficult to do under lights when the red ball is harder to pick up though in fairness

Oh I agree, I was just pointing out that the way we approached the innings looked like we were scared to play shots and it looked better when we went for it a little more.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2017, 07:03:05 PM
Yeah agreed.

Westley must be really struggling to make Australia now, barring a very substantial effort in the second dig I can't see how he can go.

Stoneman needs another score also as he doesn't look convincing.

I would love it if they had the balls to go with a top 3 of Cook, Duckett and Livingstone, and really take it to the Aussies. Can't see it though
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2017, 07:10:32 PM
I like Malan, I reckon he has something to his game and some grit.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 07, 2017, 07:21:06 PM
I like Duckett but I'm not sure about Livingstone, he looked totally unprepared for international cricket in the T20s a few months back, maybe he's more suited to tests but I think he'd be a big risk now.

What's happened to Bell-Drummond?  I liked the look of him but he seems to have, like Hain, completely lost his way in the longer format and improved in the short forms instead.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2017, 07:22:50 PM
I like Duckett too they've got rid of him far too fast.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on September 07, 2017, 07:31:43 PM
Hameed scored 88 off 250 balls, hopefully he's found a bit of form.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2017, 07:34:10 PM
Yeah and it sounded like it was in very tough conditions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 08, 2017, 12:03:00 AM
From the little bit I've seen the conditions and the pitch really aren't suited to trying to dig in, look at cook, he played it safe and then got done by an absolute beauty that was almost unplayable.

When Stokes and Malan played a little more aggressively it looked a little easier.

Yep, I think Stokes went out with the intent to be aggressive.  If conditions stay the same then anything approaching a 100 run first innings lead might turn out to be very handy,
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2017, 06:31:33 AM
Yesterday's play reminded me of one of those limited overs finals that used to be the last game of the season at Lords. If you won the toss you asked the opposition to bat and you generally won the game because the ball did all sorts. Playing a test at Lords in September hardly makes for an even contest between bat and ball.

Something about Lords in September makes the ball swing prodigiously and I guess that vindicated the decision to play Roland-Jones ahead of Woakes.

 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on September 08, 2017, 09:50:36 AM
In fairness it was horrendous conditions to bat in, and only Root can be classed as giving his wicket away.

Shannon Gabriel in particular bowled one or 2 brilliant balls at around 92/93 mph and seaming all over the place

Great days cricket

This is all true, and what a fine sight for us cricketing purists it is to see a West Indian fast bowler steaming in and bowling 90+mph seamers.
But the fact is our top order, with the exception of Cook and Root, have looked brittle for a long, long time and we don't look anywhere near finding a new opener or number 3. It's a worry heading for Australia and we now have no more time to correct it.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2017, 11:40:35 AM
Malan gets a beauty just before the rain.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2017, 11:56:44 AM
One play that I'm always puzzled on, in terms of lack of selection, is Ben Foakes. I know he's a wicketkeeper, but he's a bloody good batsman and has a lot of talent.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2017, 11:56:51 AM
In fairness it was horrendous conditions to bat in, and only Root can be classed as giving his wicket away.

Shannon Gabriel in particular bowled one or 2 brilliant balls at around 92/93 mph and seaming all over the place

Great days cricket

This is all true, and what a fine sight for us cricketing purists it is to see a West Indian fast bowler steaming in and bowling 90+mph seamers.
But the fact is our top order, with the exception of Cook and Root, have looked brittle for a long, long time and we don't look anywhere near finding a new opener or number 3. It's a worry heading for Australia and we now have no more time to correct it.



Quite so.  A very good bowling attack, some superb all rounders in Stokes and Moeen, an excellent middle order, but a top order made of glass.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on September 08, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
One play that I'm always puzzled on, in terms of lack of selection, is Ben Foakes. I know he's a wicketkeeper, but he's a bloody good batsman and has a lot of talent.

Averaging more than the players they've picked this year.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 12:02:32 PM
The problems with the top order really hurt us on batting pitches but pitches like this one we're usually ok because the aggressive middle order will smash us back into the game.  If Australia have been paying attention they'll be trying to set up pitches with a first innings 'par' of 400+ and then challenge us to reach it, just like India did.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on September 08, 2017, 12:49:11 PM
I'd still be tempted in Aus to go with Hales opening & Hameed at 3 & challenge him to do the Warner role of getting us off to a flyer.  Hales lasting 50 balls with be more productive than Stoneman or Westley scratching round for 8 runs off 40/50 balls.

Problem is there is no exceptional player smashing the door down to get in.

Hameed, Jennings, Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Duckett & Ballance all had good chances & not grasped it....who is next Northeast, Clarke?? Or back to the list again?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 12:57:44 PM
I'd still be tempted in Aus to go with Hales opening & Hameed at 3 & challenge him to do the Warner role of getting us off to a flyer.  Hales lasting 50 balls with be more productive than Stoneman or Westley scratching round for 8 runs off 40/50 balls.

Problem is there is no exceptional player smashing the door down to get in.

Hameed, Jennings, Stoneman, Westley, Malan, Duckett & Ballance all had good chances & not grasped it....who is next Northeast, Clarke?? Or back to the list again?

Agree with both and Duckett at 5 for me.  If you haven't got obvious choices then pick players who can develop.  Hales is a little older but I see him as a short term solution for the next year or 2 whilst Hameed develops at 3 and we find someone else to step forward.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
I honestly can not see Hales lasting 50 balls on fast pitches in Test match conditions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 01:02:12 PM
I honestly can not see Hales lasting 50 balls on fast pitches in Test match conditions.

Maybe not but nor will any of the others we've tried and at least we know that Hales can score big runs in international cricket (albeit in a different format).
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2017, 01:02:50 PM
Sorry for appearing negative again but no to Hameed at 3. 3 is a crises position for the best batter in the team not a position to develop batsman.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2017, 01:03:28 PM
I honestly can not see Hales lasting 50 balls on fast pitches in Test match conditions.

Maybe not but nor will any of the others we've tried and at least we know that Hales can score big runs in international cricket (albeit in a different format).
That is true.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2017, 01:48:27 PM
I actually think Hales would be fine on Aussie wickets, because the bounce is true and the ball isn't going to swing much. I still like Malan people say he hasn't grasped a chance but he's got a couple of 50s and his 20 in this game was pretty good in the context of what has happened. He's shown ability to gut it out.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 02:38:05 PM
I actually think Hales would be fine on Aussie wickets, because the bounce is true and the ball isn't going to swing much. I still like Malan people say he hasn't grasped a chance but he's got a couple of 50s and his 20 in this game was pretty good in the context of what has happened. He's shown ability to gut it out.

His lack of foot movement at the crease is the problem because it makes it a little too easy to square him up.

On the current test if anyone hasn't seen 'that over' I recommend giving this a watch - https://www.ecb.co.uk/tv/466964

How did he not get a wicket with that lot?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dave Cooper please on September 08, 2017, 02:43:09 PM
Yeah, it was tremendous, up there with Flintoff's 2 wicket maiden during "that Test" at Edgbaston.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 08, 2017, 06:06:08 PM
500 test wickets for Jimmy. Well done that man.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2017, 06:16:52 PM
He is there amongst great bowlers in the world cricket history.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2017, 06:22:55 PM
Amazingly skilled bowler.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 08, 2017, 06:35:45 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 06:55:16 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2017, 07:04:41 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.

If he stays injury free then I expect him to play for a couple more years. If he does then he will overtake Walsh and McGrath. I don't think he will get 300 more wickets to overtake Murali though!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 08, 2017, 07:07:51 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.
Walsh 519 so no not far behind him

In a recent interview Jimmy reckons he can keep playing at this level till he's 40.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2017, 07:08:27 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.

If he stays injury free then I expect him to play for a couple more years. If he does then he will overtake Walsh and McGrath. I don't think he will get 300 more wickets to overtake Murali though!

I can't imagine a quick ever catching Murali or Warne, the extra wear and tear from the run in and the fact that most teams have 3-4 seamers and 1-2 spinners means they just can't get through enough overs to take that many.  You'd need to have 2-3 sessions like Stokes did yesterday every tour to get to that level and that's just not realistic to do consistently for 10 years.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 08, 2017, 07:10:55 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.

If he stays injury free then I expect him to play for a couple more years. If he does then he will overtake Walsh and McGrath. I don't think he will get 300 more wickets to overtake Murali though!

If he were to overtake McGrath that would be very impressive.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2017, 07:12:48 PM
The only two quicks with more are Walsh and McGrath. Impressive.

That could well be down to 1 by the end of the ashes, Walsh wasn't a massive amount over 500.
Walsh 519 so no not far behind him

In a recent interview Jimmy reckons he can keep playing at this level till he's 40.

Sounds optimistic when a bowler says something like that. However, with Jimmy I can definitely see him playing 4/5 more years. He appears to me a very young 35 year old who is physically very fit and his ability levels haven't diminished. He doesn't play in the shorter formats and he doesn't get injured much either.

I'll be very surprised if he doesn't end his career with well over 600 wickets
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2017, 07:24:11 PM
I was listening to TMS during the rain break in the morning session.

The West Indian guest commentator was doing a listener's Q&A with Blowers about his TMS career. It was a wonderful piece of radio and was a throwback to the days of Arlott, Johnson, the Bearded Wonder et al when TMS really did seem like you were eavesdropping on the conversation between a few mates at the test match.

Blowers is a bit of an eccentric old coot who makes countless mistakes but I like him and when he leaves the box after this test, the last link with the TMS of old is gone.

The modern brigade of Vaughan, Swann and Dagnall are poor in comparison although I doo like Tuffers. I'd like to hear more of Victor and the return of Mike Selvey.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2017, 07:40:54 PM
I think England have been poor during the last few overs.

Anderson seemed to be arguing with Marais Erasmus after receiving two warnings for running on the pitch. You don't want to celebrate getting to 500 wickets by being taken out of the attack.

Then I thought Root wasted two reviews on needless LBW calls. We could live to regret that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 09, 2017, 08:02:55 AM
I was listening to TMS during the rain break in the morning session.

The West Indian guest commentator was doing a listener's Q&A with Blowers about his TMS career. It was a wonderful piece of radio and was a throwback to the days of Arlott, Johnson, the Bearded Wonder et al when TMS really did seem like you were eavesdropping on the conversation between a few mates at the test match.

Blowers is a bit of an eccentric old coot who makes countless mistakes but I like him and when he leaves the box after this test, the last link with the TMS of old is gone.

The modern brigade of Vaughan, Swann and Dagnall are poor in comparison although I doo like Tuffers. I'd like to hear more of Victor and the return of Mike Selvey.

I loved listening to Tony Cozier, but his replacement on TMS has been brilliant.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 10:38:24 AM
I really hope the Windies set a challenging total.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on September 09, 2017, 11:19:02 AM
The problems with the top order really hurt us on batting pitches but pitches like this one we're usually ok because the aggressive middle order will smash us back into the game.  If Australia have been paying attention they'll be trying to set up pitches with a first innings 'par' of 400+ and then challenge us to reach it, just like India did.

That's basically what we've done for years now, and it's generally worked except when up against high-quality fast bowling (which explains why South Africa have been the only side to win in Australia since the 2010-11 Ashes.)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2017, 11:40:33 AM
I really hope the Windies set a challenging total.

Looking highly unlikely at the moment. Anderson and Broad are causing them nightmares
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 11:42:08 AM
This is poor, Hope is there they should be supporting him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2017, 11:49:05 AM
This is poor, Hope is there they should be supporting him.

It's quality bowling their up against though. Anderson and Broad haven't bowled a bad ball between them
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 11:52:23 AM
No but it's not like Blackwood is out when he's trying to dig in.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2017, 11:55:32 AM
No but it's not like Blackwood is out when he's trying to dig in.

I don't think Blackwood has it in him to dig in. He sort of tried to play defensively, but looked a walking wicket with the amount of play and misses he had. He probably just thought sod it, might as well try and hit the ball rather than get out defending
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 09, 2017, 01:21:05 PM
I loved listening to Tony Cozier, but his replacement on TMS has been brilliant.
Yes I listened to him on TMS yesterday and what a wonderful man he is. He did a rendition of cricket lovely cricket absolutely superb. Don't know his name though😥
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 01:31:14 PM
Fazier Mohammed isn't it? He's very good.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dave shelley on September 09, 2017, 01:56:01 PM
Brilliant bowling from Anderson.  Six wickets so far.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 04:04:35 PM
Handy little period for Stoneman and Westley this.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2017, 04:15:23 PM
Whatever happens with Stoneman and Westley's futures it's nice they're able to close out this match with a couple of good knocks.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 11, 2017, 11:35:03 AM
Interesting debate on SKY yesterday, where Gower, Atherton, Botham, Warne and Hussain picked a 16 man squad for the upcoming Ashes series.  I thought it was an interesting insight into the kind of discussions that take place at that level (seeing as all the English pundits are former captains) and this is the 16 they came up with:

Cook, Stoneman, Westley, Root, Malan, Hales, Stokes, Bairstow (WK), Foakes (WK), Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Roland-Jones, Wood, Crane

All of them said that they want to see Root batting at three in the winter and the only other real debates were whether Westley should go, whether Buttler or Foakes should be the second choice keeper and whether Crane or Rashid should take the second spinner place (Botham mentioned Leach as another possibility).  It was agreed that the fact that the Lions are touring Australia at the same time kind of negates the need for any real gambles in selection in terms of younger players. 

As for the starting XI, it was interesting to see the different approaches.  Atherton and Hussain wanted the extra batsman, whereas Warne was advocating:

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Hales, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Crane

His logic was that there are going to be a few overs that need to be made up along the way and that it would be better for Crane to bowl them than a part timer like Root.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2017, 12:05:04 PM
I don't agree with Warne on that mainly because if all you're wanting is a few overs of filler then picking a bunny is a dreadful idea.  Add to that the fact that Root actually has taken a few decent wickets and I just don't see the need.  If you're talking about a genuine all rounder (i.e another Ali) then it changes the discussion but if you pick Crane it has to be with an expectation for him to bowl 20-25% of the overs and to take wickets.  On top of that if we were scoring runs but struggling for wickets then, again, switching out a batsman for a pure bowler wouldn't be a terrible decision but all of our problems are in the top 5 and I don't see how shifting everyone up and bringing in a new 11 is helping with that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 11, 2017, 12:22:13 PM
To be fair to Warne, his few overs comment was about the first innings and then he said he would come into it more in the 2nd innings.  I like the 6-11 unit of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson and would be hesitant to change it, but I just worry about our attack in Australia when the ball isn't doing anything and think we might need to find a way of getting a different bowling option in there somehow. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2017, 01:02:26 PM
To be fair to Warne, his few overs comment was about the first innings and then he said he would come into it more in the 2nd innings.  I like the 6-11 unit of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson and would be hesitant to change it, but I just worry about our attack in Australia when the ball isn't doing anything and think we might need to find a way of getting a different bowling option in there somehow. 

That's a slightly different issue, I do think that there's an argument that the 4 we have are a little too similar and very reliant on the ball swinging, on pitches where that seems unlikely there's a fair argument to look at getting TRJ or Wood in.  The next step is who do you leave out?  TRJ for Woakes is fair because both offer a bit with the bat but Wood, like Crane, is a bunny so I'd be reluctant to drop Woakes for him which means leaving Broad or Jimmy out, which seems unthinkable but has to be considered if you want to keep the middle order balance that has worked so well for us.

On this one I wouldn't want to be a selector.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 11, 2017, 01:12:56 PM
Wood isn't a complete bunny is he? He's averaging around 20 in 1st class cricket.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 11, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
To be fair to Warne, his few overs comment was about the first innings and then he said he would come into it more in the 2nd innings.  I like the 6-11 unit of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson and would be hesitant to change it, but I just worry about our attack in Australia when the ball isn't doing anything and think we might need to find a way of getting a different bowling option in there somehow. 

That's a slightly different issue, I do think that there's an argument that the 4 we have are a little too similar and very reliant on the ball swinging, on pitches where that seems unlikely there's a fair argument to look at getting TRJ or Wood in.  The next step is who do you leave out?  TRJ for Woakes is fair because both offer a bit with the bat but Wood, like Crane, is a bunny so I'd be reluctant to drop Woakes for him which means leaving Broad or Jimmy out, which seems unthinkable but has to be considered if you want to keep the middle order balance that has worked so well for us.

On this one I wouldn't want to be a selector.

Don't know about you Paul, but I'm not sure about Roland-Jones down there as for me he is the archetypal English seamer and is suited to our conditions.  With no movement, bowlers of his pace become targets to be attacked and it has been pointed out that the records of Anderson and Broad down there are not great.  If fit, Wood in the squad is a must for me as I think he will be a threat on those pitches and I would even consider swapping Roland-Jones with someone like Finn for the Ashes and then bringing him back for New Zealand.

As you say, selection is a dilemma and Broad's batting woes really haven't helped as he is now a 10 or 11 only (they will really target him with the short stuff I reckon).       
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2017, 01:36:24 PM
Wood isn't a complete bunny is he? He's averaging around 20 in 1st class cricket.

He seems to get single figures or 40-50+ and very little in between but yes, he's not like Crane but he's also not going to provide the crucial late runs that Woakes and Ali have done so well for the last couple of years, he's more like Broad which is why that's who I'd look at leaving out for him.

Tom - I agree that TRJ might be just as limited in Oz but given we don't have any 90+ quicks I'm not sure what else we can do.  I do think TRJ bowls a little fuller as his default length though which at least makes hitting the stumps a more realistic prospect than the rest who dislike being driven so go a little shorter.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 11, 2017, 03:16:28 PM
Wood isn't a complete bunny is he? He's averaging around 20 in 1st class cricket.

He seems to get single figures or 40-50+ and very little in between but yes, he's not like Crane but he's also not going to provide the crucial late runs that Woakes and Ali have done so well for the last couple of years, he's more like Broad which is why that's who I'd look at leaving out for him.

Tom - I agree that TRJ might be just as limited in Oz but given we don't have any 90+ quicks I'm not sure what else we can do.  I do think TRJ bowls a little fuller as his default length though which at least makes hitting the stumps a more realistic prospect than the rest who dislike being driven so go a little shorter.

It will be interesting to see, but I think the 16 they settled on will probably be spot on.  having the Lions down there at the same time will be very beneficial and it will be interesting to see how some of the young players like Helm get on if selected.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 12, 2017, 03:28:15 PM
7 lbw's out of the first 8 wickets.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2017, 10:06:55 PM
England have subsided but looking at that team it's very light on batting.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 16, 2017, 10:09:42 PM
Yeah Rashid in at 7 isn't a great sign
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 19, 2017, 03:01:33 PM
Windies making a good start in the first ODI.  Gayle and Lewis look a strong opening partnership in the limited over formats of the game.  Our bowling attack looks a bit one paced.

Edit - Lewis just gone. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 19, 2017, 05:26:39 PM
I haven't seen any today. Decent bowling? Poor batting? Shit wicket? Their current score doesn't look up to much to me.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 19, 2017, 06:00:36 PM
Sounds decent overall but Stokes had another poor last over, he doesn't like a last over against the windies does he.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 19, 2017, 06:04:48 PM
I last looked with 9 balls left and Holder was on 28 or 29. I was quite surprised to see he was still there and on 41 at the close.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on September 19, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
England cruising at the moment, 146-1 off 22 overs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 19, 2017, 09:43:31 PM
Lovely 100 from Jonny.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 20, 2017, 06:28:17 PM
Solid win that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 20, 2017, 08:38:58 PM
Bairstow hitting form just at the right time perhaps.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 21, 2017, 12:23:36 PM
Windies won toss and put England in to bat.

England same team, 2 x changes for Windies one being no Chris Gayle.

India 220/6 44 gone v Aussies
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 21, 2017, 01:56:39 PM
Windies won toss and put England in to bat. mop up the water.
Fixed
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 21, 2017, 02:08:52 PM
Windies won toss and put England in to bat. mop up the water.
Fixed
I posted on Facebook earlier how i was enjoying the days cricket - listening to the goings on at Headingley and watching
India hopefully smash Aussies....then leaving that game to watch England v Windies.....just should have kept fingers away
from keyboard as within 2 overs off at Trent Bridge due to rain...no worries switch over and watch India again and what do
i find walking off for rain (thankfully only short break) but at this time i couldn't resort to Headingly as there they were off
for lunch.
Tale continues to unfold with Bears coming out for lunch only to then succumb to firstly light then rain, incidentally they are
due to be back on in 5 minutes. All this though does give me opportunity to see Zimbabwean Cartwright dismissed for 1 soon followed by
Warner. Aussies 14/2 chasing 253.
Lost only 1 over at Headingley, just coming out now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 21, 2017, 03:48:18 PM
Good timing from Steve Finn, in terms of Ashes selection, to take 8-79 and win the match for Middlesex.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 21, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
Aussies 148/8 needing another 105/102
In last over Kuldeep took a hat trick
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PGW on September 21, 2017, 04:23:14 PM
England v Windies now been abandoned
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 21, 2017, 04:38:01 PM
Watching Kuldeep bowling on an Indian wicket gives me the willies. He’s a left arm wrist spinner with an evil googly and must be a nightmare to face at first.

Nice to see the Aussies getting it, and will enjoy that sensation while it lasts...

Shame about the England ODI.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 21, 2017, 11:25:57 PM
I know that the Champions Trophy knocked a big hole in the schedule but hosting a five game one day series in England in Mid to late September is plain stupid.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: JD on September 22, 2017, 08:33:04 AM
I know that the Champions Trophy knocked a big hole in the schedule but hosting a five game one day series in England in Mid to late September is plain stupid.

The same will happen when England come to NZ after Australia next year. The test match here in Christchurch is late March into April. I can't see five days play without some rain that time of the year.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 24, 2017, 02:24:33 PM
This is devastating from mo.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: thick_mike on September 24, 2017, 06:10:32 PM
Second 50 was off 12 balls! Is this true?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 24, 2017, 06:11:20 PM
Yep he went bananas.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 24, 2017, 06:30:15 PM
Second 50 was off 12 balls! Is this true?

Yep, it was spectacular, took us from a decent 320ish total to a massive 369 that they never looked like being able to chase unless Gayle batted through.  Pretty much a perfect middle order performance in an ODI.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 24, 2017, 08:57:04 PM
Moeen is such a super player.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on September 25, 2017, 09:11:15 AM
After the winter I was just hoping this summer that Mo on 98 test wickets would get the chance to get to the 100 before being dropped....one top summer later & he's one of the first names of the team sheet

Excellent 27 minute doc on his background in Birmingham on the ECB website - called No Boundaries
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 25, 2017, 11:54:21 AM
Moeen is such a super player.

He's now very much the kind of all-rounder that when he catches fire, can take the game away from the opposition with bat and ball. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on September 26, 2017, 03:24:23 PM
Stokes arrested in Bristol and Hales assisting the police

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 27, 2017, 11:51:26 AM
The Ashes squad. Looks quite frankly terrifying. I know we’re short of batting, but Vince and Ballance? Overton, Foakes and Crane as (albeit promising) backup?

I may spend winter hiding behind the settee.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41409370
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 27, 2017, 12:04:46 PM
Overton and Foakes are the right choices, both are in good form and deserve their call up.  Crane is for the future and having been around the squad all summer I think keeping him around is sensible.

Vince and Ballance are strange though, Ballance hasn't really looked in any form all summer and Vince has always, for me, looked more of a limited overs player.  The issue is that there's really not many options around that look worth a shout.  Hildreth and Hales are the 2 who you could argue a case for (in my opinion) but the former has some big question marks over his technique and the latter, for all his limited overs form, never looked comfortable in the test team as an opener, giving him a go at 5 might be seen as a bit too risky.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 27, 2017, 12:39:14 PM
Overton and Foakes are the right choices, both are in good form and deserve their call up.  Crane is for the future and having been around the squad all summer I think keeping him around is sensible.

Vince and Ballance are strange though, Ballance hasn't really looked in any form all summer and Vince has always, for me, looked more of a limited overs player.  The issue is that there's really not many options around that look worth a shout.  Hildreth and Hales are the 2 who you could argue a case for (in my opinion) but the former has some big question marks over his technique and the latter, for all his limited overs form, never looked comfortable in the test team as an opener, giving him a go at 5 might be seen as a bit too risky.

Foakes is quite possibly a better batsman than Vince and Ballance. Not sure he could bat at 3 though.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on September 27, 2017, 03:24:42 PM
Would guess the likes of Leach, Buttler & Hameed will be on the Lions tour which I believe is also in Aus at the same time so might find they want a few playing cricket and there will be a bit of chopping and changing of the drinks carriers
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 27, 2017, 04:00:15 PM
Aggers saying it is the weakest squad he has seen, which I think is a bit OTT.  Vince and Ballance selections are being heavily criticised, but seeing as the most likely alternatives were Westley and Hales, it's not really that much of a controversial selection.  Wood will be a big miss on those pitches, but 8 of the 11 are still very strong (supposing Stokes makes it).  Michael Vaughan on the BBC saying Liam Dawson should have been selected as the second spinner which I just don't see to be honest.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2017, 04:48:37 PM
Vince may be decent on Aussie pitches. We really lack variety in the pace bowling and I think Ballance is a mistake.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2017, 06:49:11 PM
Stokes is the really key one we need him there and playing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2017, 07:00:10 PM
Billings delivers again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on September 27, 2017, 09:30:42 PM
We lack genuine pace and with only 2 of the top 5 nailed down we lack batting too, that's the 2 attributes you need to win here.

Thank McGrath the Aussies aren't what they were.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 27, 2017, 10:03:17 PM
That's the thing for this Ashes, both teams seem to be in a bit of a mess right now and I honestly can't remember the last time that was the case, home advantage will probably make the difference but a couple of players on either side having a stand out tournament could be enough to swing it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on September 27, 2017, 11:10:46 PM
The Sun have a video clip of the Stokes brawl.  He ain't going to Oz.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on September 27, 2017, 11:58:59 PM
I would say its very unlikely he'll be on that plane.

What I will say is we have to consider the moral toilet that publication resides in so hopefully the police will have the full video not just the edited highlights designed to shock.

No excuses for the blows thrown & he will have to face the consequences.

What the hell he was doing in a low end bar at that time on a Sunday night during a series smashed out of head is just mental & suggests someone who needs firm mgmt. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 06:33:38 AM
That video is pretty damning and is an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2017, 06:34:48 AM
The Sun have a video clip of the Stokes brawl.  He ain't going to Oz.

Not unless they bring back deportation. The video is pretty bad, and whatever provocation there was, that last punch that completely floors the bloke will lead to a short spell inside I reckon. Bloody idiot.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on September 28, 2017, 06:44:27 AM
I think we're fucked without Stokes.  The Aussies are loving it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 06:45:14 AM
What on earth is any player doing outside a nightclub at 2.45 in the morning in the middle of a series anyway?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on September 28, 2017, 07:08:50 AM
Exactly, utter stupidity to put yourself in that position in the first place.

You can imagine what goes on outside these places at 2.30am, the usual random no mark pissheads having a pop hoping for a reaction and guess what.........

Nothing good happens where sportsmen are involved outside nightclubs at that time in the morning.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on September 28, 2017, 07:17:55 AM
That's the thing for this Ashes, both teams seem to be in a bit of a mess right now and I honestly can't remember the last time that was the case, home advantage will probably make the difference but a couple of players on either side having a stand out tournament could be enough to swing it.

This is probably going to bite me later, but I would actually say that we (i.e. Australia) are reasonably well-settled going in, recent terrible ODI form aside. There's a question or two as to who's the no. 6 and whether Wade really is the best keeper we can get, but those aren't really massive issues.

I think it'll basically come down to how good the English quicks are - hold Australia to enough sub-350 totals and we'll have a series on.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 08:04:24 AM
If Stokes doesn't go, which unfortunately looks likely and he needs to learn from this. I think I'd go with Plunkett as a replacement, we don't have anyone like Stokes and I think Plunkett is best option to balance the side. Team would be something like:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

Plunkett offers us something different with the ball that we don't have and his batting is useful. We can't replace Stokes, but I think that's the best we can do.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 28, 2017, 08:15:28 AM
The big question for me is who would have won in a Botham Stokes biff up?

I think i'd go with Botham.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 28, 2017, 08:27:18 AM
If Stokes doesn't go, which unfortunately looks likely and he needs to learn from this. I think I'd go with Plunkett as a replacement, we don't have anyone like Stokes and I think Plunkett is best option to balance the side. Team would be something like:

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Plunkett
Broad
Anderson

Plunkett offers us something different with the ball that we don't have and his batting is useful. We can't replace Stokes, but I think that's the best we can do.

I do think we need a bit of extra pace in the bowling attack and if Stokes misses out then that is what I would go with.  If Stokes is available then for this series alone I would rejig the batting order and go with at top five of:

Cook, Stoneman, Root, Malan, Bairstow

Stokes, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson would make up the bowling attack which would leave one spot.  Again maybe just for the Ashes, we could let Bairstow concentrate on his batting and bat Foakes at seven.  In all likelihood though, I think the line up for the first test will be:

Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan / Ballance, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad, Anderson
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Colhint on September 28, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
When David Warner smacked Joe Root at 3 in the morning, the Aussies banned him for a period which ended 4 days before the start of the Ashes
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 28, 2017, 08:39:03 AM
When David Warner smacked Joe Root at 3 in the morning, the Aussies banned him for a period which ended 4 days before the start of the Ashes

I think Warner clipped Root on the chin. Having seen the Stokes video it would appear a long way from that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Colhint on September 28, 2017, 08:40:33 AM
I haven,t seen the clip so can't comment.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 28, 2017, 08:51:22 AM
Self defence appears to be a popular line but a few too many punches for me to consider that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 28, 2017, 08:54:37 AM
Given how important hands are to a cricketer I find it staggering that one would be thick enough to go round punching things. I'd be ruling out embroidery, playing the harp and building flat pack furniture if it was me. Surely you have to regard yourself as a professional pianist would - you never see Alfred Brendel lamping arseholes in the early hours, do you? He's got too much respect for his profession.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 28, 2017, 09:03:26 AM
I wonder if the case could be delayed until mid-January? Perhaps a Cricket-loving solicitor in the CPS could put the case file at the bottom of their in tray?

That aside I think the Aussies at home in front of a partisan crowd will be too strong for our inconsistent batting. Hopefully it won't be as bad as 2013 but I think we will struggle.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 28, 2017, 09:07:45 AM
Self defence appears to be a popular line but a few too many punches for me to consider that.

Just seen the video.  To be honest, if someone got caught doing that on Witton Lane before or after the match on Saturday, then they would be looking at a charge and a possible prison sentence.  If it was who I think it was in the video, then Hales was involved far more than is being reported as well and again would be looking at similar punishment.     
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 12:06:26 PM
If he is charged and found guilty logically the best type of sentence would be community service. Him coaching youngsters would be of much greater value than a prison sentence.

It will be a terrible blow for our hopes if he is out of the Ashes. In future I hope he reviews the activities he undertakes socially. He should never have been in the position to react like that.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on September 28, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
The video looks like 2 drunken idiots flailing at each other, handbags until the last 5 seconds.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some serious provercation but that last punch and the fact that he put himself in that position just cannot be excused.

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 28, 2017, 12:16:35 PM
I wonder if the case could be delayed until mid-January? Perhaps a Cricket-loving solicitor in the CPS could put the case file at the bottom of their in tray?

That aside I think the Aussies at home in front of a partisan crowd will be too strong for our inconsistent batting. Hopefully it won't be as bad as 2013 but I think we will struggle.
CPS=MCC they all wear the tie ;)
On tour itself I am hoping England are still in the series by the time Melbourne test  starts rather than 3-0 down otherwise my appearance  in the MCG is going to be spoilt.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TheTimVilla on September 28, 2017, 12:22:34 PM
I wonder if the case could be delayed until mid-January? Perhaps a Cricket-loving solicitor in the CPS could put the case file at the bottom of their in tray?

That aside I think the Aussies at home in front of a partisan crowd will be too strong for our inconsistent batting. Hopefully it won't be as bad as 2013 but I think we will struggle.
CPS=MCC they all wear the tie ;)
On tour itself I am hoping England are still in the series by the time Melbourne test  starts rather than 3-0 down otherwise my appearance  in the MCG is going to be spoilt.

Can you bat 5?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 28, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
Haha...no I am an Opener and will move to 3 to help the team  but no lower.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 28, 2017, 12:37:27 PM
There's talk of Stokes apparently intervening to help two guys who were receiving homophobic abuse.

If true, it still wouldn't excuse the final punch of that video, where the guy clearly is backing away and wants no part of a fight.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on September 28, 2017, 01:19:54 PM
Very noble of him if that is the case but as you say the final punch was a step too far if he hadn't already, he does have previous for having a bit of a short fuse.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: dave shelley on September 28, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
You can clearly hear someone continually shouting 'enough Ben' but he kept at it.  I would imagine that isn't going to go well against him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on September 28, 2017, 02:26:37 PM
You can clearly hear someone continually shouting 'enough Ben' but he kept at it.  I would imagine that isn't going to go well against him.

No, it’s like chasing burglars out of your property. If you give them a kicking half a mile down the road the seld defence motive is going to be hard to prove.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 28, 2017, 04:08:59 PM
Very noble of him if that is the case but as you say the final punch was a step too far if he hadn't already, he does have previous for having a bit of a short fuse.

If Hales is the person I think he is in the video, then he stamps on and kicks someone who is on the floor.  As I say, I'm not sure he will have heard the last of it either. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on September 28, 2017, 05:06:17 PM
Well they have both been suspended for the foreseeable so you might be right
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on September 28, 2017, 05:49:15 PM
Stokes in serious trouble and more video footage now on the net where he is heard mocking Katie Price's disabled son. Not good.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 05:54:35 PM
Oh here we go it's going to be the dig everything out about Stokes now. He deserves to be punished for what he's done, but I hope this doesn't become a complete character assassination.

Now that he's almost certainly missing the Ashes, I'm definitely going with the team I picked earlier so time to call up Plunkett.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 28, 2017, 06:22:27 PM
From someone I know within the game, this isn't the first time Stokes has been pulled up about his "lifestyle choices".
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2017, 06:48:35 PM
No and it was an issue that was flagged up early in his career. I just hope it's this issue that's dealt with rather than dragging up everything from the past.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 28, 2017, 07:08:39 PM
From someone I know within the game, this isn't the first time Stokes has been pulled up about his "lifestyle choices".

There were a number of incidents listed on TV last night.  Hadn't heard about some of them but this isn't the first incident he's been involved in. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on September 28, 2017, 07:18:08 PM
Paul is right. He shouldn't be tried for previous misdemeanours. I was simply trying to point out that those trying to extend the "it might be this" olive branch also have to appreciate it isn't the first time he has been told to avoid this kind of scenario.

I tell my 2 year old not to touch hot things all the time. If he does it once then I will comfort him. Twice, then I can still do concerned Dad bur make clear he has been through this before and that is why I advised against it. Three times? Architect of your own downfall and no sympathy from me.

Stokes is a prat.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Lsvilla on September 28, 2017, 07:27:35 PM
It doesn’t look good at all - but some questions about the footage that has appeared surely ? This is not CCTV so someone was filming - who and where from ? With what motive ?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on September 28, 2017, 10:02:53 PM
It's the nature of society these days, people get their phones out to film rather than phone the police or ambulance or even go to theaid of those being assaulted. Then of course they sell to the tabloid scum when they realise who they captured.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 29, 2017, 01:00:11 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2017, 01:12:20 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.

Yeah a bit harsh on the likes of Foakes, Crane and Overton who haven't even featured at that level.

I hope who ever interviewed asked him who the alternatives were.   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 29, 2017, 01:21:20 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.

Yeah a bit harsh on the likes of Foakes, Crane and Overton who haven't even featured at that level.

I hope who ever interviewed asked him who the alternatives were.   

To be fair he did follow it up with talk about how there weren't many clear alternatives but the whole segment felt like, at best, he sees them as the least shit options.  They eventually got back to Overton and a few of them confirmed that he's the obvious choice as a quicker option as he is up around 88-89mph.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 29, 2017, 01:45:56 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.

I can't help but think that Ballance gets picked because he and Root came through the ranks together at Yorkshire and they're friends.

Olaftab said he can bat, he should go instead of Ballance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 29, 2017, 02:56:32 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.

I can't help but think that Ballance gets picked because he and Root came through the ranks together at Yorkshire and they're friends.

Olaftab said he can bat, he should go instead of Ballance.

Didnt Balance start at Derbyshire (well Zimbabwe really i guess)?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on September 29, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
Michael Vaughan is being a bit of a tit again on TMS.  I'm paraphrasing a bit here:

"England have 8 players who are good test players and 8 players who aren't"

a few minutes later

"the problem before was the mindset they arrived in, they need to all think they deserve to be there and have earned the right to be on the tour"

Seemingly he doesn't see how achieving the latter would be easier if people like him didn't say stuff like the former.

The only player I don't think deserves to be there is Ballance because he had his reprieve played poorly and has been poor for Yorkshire since.

I can't help but think that Ballance gets picked because he and Root came through the ranks together at Yorkshire and they're friends.

Olaftab said he can bat, he should go instead of Ballance.

Didnt Balance start at Derbyshire (well Zimbabwe really i guess)?

He is Zimbabwean and represented them in the 2006 Under-19 world cup. He only played schoolboy cricket for Derbyshire and signed an academy for Yorkshire in 2007 aged 17 when he shared digs with Joe Root.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on September 29, 2017, 03:40:56 PM
Didn't he get a cricketing scholarship at Eton or something, and go to Derbyshire because his uncle was the coach (Houghton)?

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 29, 2017, 04:20:40 PM
Today - with a few overs to go Curran has looked good on debut and generally we've bowled really well other than a few truly horrific overs from Ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2017, 04:57:59 PM
Today - with a few overs to go Curran has looked good on debut and generally we've bowled really well other than a few truly horrific overs from Ball.

Ball is a funny bowler, when he's good he looks really good but when he's even a bit off he's awful.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on September 29, 2017, 06:50:52 PM
Today - with a few overs to go Curran has looked good on debut and generally we've bowled really well other than a few truly horrific overs from Ball.

Ball is a funny bowler, when he's good he looks really good but when he's even a bit off he's awful.

His problem today, if you haven't been watching, was that he keep bowling at normal pace and on a normal line an length, Gayle picked him for a couple of overs and then smashed him around the ground and then the middle order did the same at the end.  His last over he did try to get yorkers in but he didn't do it very well and ended up going for nearly 100 on his own.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2017, 08:03:10 PM
Pretty good form from the openers. Nice for Roy to be back.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2017, 10:52:56 PM
Surely Bairstow has now got to bat higher up the order for the Ashes.  I think we would be stronger with him in the top five and another option a bit lower down. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2017, 10:58:40 PM
I'm kind of back and forth on that. I quite like splitting of the best batsmen down the order. It means it can be demoralising for the opposition.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on October 02, 2017, 05:41:35 PM
I see Mark Wood has been named in the Lions squad to tour Aus this winter.  Bit of a strange one that seeing as he didn't make the full squad.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 02, 2017, 06:32:42 PM
Good too see Duckett hasn't been completely forgotten.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on October 02, 2017, 07:29:57 PM
I see Mark Wood has been named in the Lions squad to tour Aus this winter.  Bit of a strange one that seeing as he didn't make the full squad.

He’ll be in Australia & playing, makes perfect sense to get overs in to him rather than carry the drinks for 2 months, call him up & him breaking down because he is coming in cold - same with a Jennings & Westley who will be playing & hopefully getting runs in the conditions
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on October 03, 2017, 12:46:37 PM
I see Mark Wood has been named in the Lions squad to tour Aus this winter.  Bit of a strange one that seeing as he didn't make the full squad.

He’ll be in Australia & playing, makes perfect sense to get overs in to him rather than carry the drinks for 2 months, call him up & him breaking down because he is coming in cold - same with a Jennings & Westley who will be playing & hopefully getting runs in the conditions

Fair point.  I think he is suited to the pitches down there and if fit would definitely look at having him in the side (especially if Stokes is out). 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on October 03, 2017, 01:29:16 PM
I see Mark Wood has been named in the Lions squad to tour Aus this winter.  Bit of a strange one that seeing as he didn't make the full squad.

He’ll be in Australia & playing, makes perfect sense to get overs in to him rather than carry the drinks for 2 months, call him up & him breaking down because he is coming in cold - same with a Jennings & Westley who will be playing & hopefully getting runs in the conditions

Fair point.  I think he is suited to the pitches down there and if fit would definitely look at having him in the side (especially if Stokes is out).

Agree, he has pace that would be useful, if he is fit
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 03, 2017, 01:30:43 PM
I imagine his ankle is very much not suited to pitches down there though sadly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on October 04, 2017, 10:08:34 AM
This brilliant little film was hidden away on BBC Four, worth 30 minutes of your time.

Race and Pace: The West Indians in East Lancashire (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b097bl89/race-and-pace-the-west-indians-in-east-lancashire)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on October 16, 2017, 08:29:23 AM
I see Davey Warner pouring oil on troubled water.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on October 16, 2017, 10:43:03 AM
Brilliant interview with my favourite sportsman.

Jonny Bairstow (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41523011)
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2017, 06:44:03 PM
I see two guys in the Stokes incident have confirmed he was defending them from homophobic abuse and they had feared being attacked before he intervened. He may well have gone too far, but it paints it in a different light.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on October 28, 2017, 11:00:54 PM
I saw that as the Aussies have been delighting in the Stokes incident regularly.

What might this mean for the case though? Could it mean he could play sooner?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2017, 11:21:36 PM
I would think if he is charged it may have some impact on sentencing, but haven't got to a decision on whether he's going to be charged yet.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on October 30, 2017, 03:29:15 PM
Whilst Stokes went over the top I actually find it quite refreshing that he saw fit to stand up for two men on a night out getting homophobic abuse and from what I can gather neither he nor Hales had revealed what they did for a living when chatting to the men earlier in the evening.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2017, 06:52:48 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 31, 2017, 05:23:36 PM
There wasn't much on TV last night so I amused myself by watching a rerun of Broad skittling the shackle rattlers at Trent Bridge.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 01, 2017, 11:42:12 AM
Despite the latest revelations I see David Warner's wife, Candice Falzon, has come out and said Ben Stokes should be banned from the entire Ashes tour.

Yes, that's David 'gobshite who punched a player in an unprovocked attack and got banned for 28 days' Warner's wife.

Rumour has it she's had more pricks than a 2nd hand dart board too.


Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: aev on November 01, 2017, 01:09:38 PM
Despite the latest revelations I see David Warner's wife, Candice Falzon, has come out and said Ben Stokes should be banned from the entire Ashes tour.

Yes, that's David 'gobshite who punched a player in an unprovocked attack and got banned for 28 days' Warner's wife.

Rumour has it she's had more pricks than a 2nd hand dart board too.




Before being Mrs Warner wasn't she caught in the bogs with Dunny Bill Williams?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 01, 2017, 08:19:24 PM
Yep thats her, all class as you can imagine.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 02, 2017, 01:22:46 PM
Oh no, Moeen might have a side strain. That would really be an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 02, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Oh no, Moeen might have a side strain. That would really be an absolute disaster.

Hopefully with the first test still three weeks away there's plenty of time for him to recover.

Finn is also carrying an injury but Moeen is of greater concern when you also consider the loss of Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 07, 2017, 11:24:14 AM
Finn now out of the tour.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 07, 2017, 07:39:07 PM
Finn now out of the tour.

Replaced by Tom Curran
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 07, 2017, 08:10:37 PM
I liked Curran in the shorter format, but he's not a Test bowler. He'd need to develop significantly, I find it really weird that we haven't picked Plunkett.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 07, 2017, 08:31:59 PM
Loss of Finn is significant now especially after Stokes.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 07, 2017, 08:35:07 PM
I liked Curran in the shorter format, but he's not a Test bowler. He'd need to develop significantly, I find it really weird that we haven't picked Plunkett.

Agreed. I can only think there are doubts about the 5 day fitness of both Plunkett and Wood.

This is a series I’m happy to be happening mostly while I’m asleep and can pretend it isn’t happening. I’d like to be wrong.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 07, 2017, 08:46:24 PM
Thing is if Plunkett played he'd be he fourth seamer who could add to the batting. His bowling could be 3-5 over spells where he's just told to bowl fast and get into them. It wouldn't be too onerous a workload, and I really think he'd add some balance to the team.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Gareth on November 08, 2017, 11:08:02 AM
Would have thought Plunkett was the ideal replacement however it’s a big squad with likes of Ball & Overton likely to do little more than carry drInks once the warm ups are done.  Wood will be in the country and playing for Lions if they decide need more pace at short notice.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 08, 2017, 05:41:30 PM
I'm a bit concerned by our play in the warm up games. We already look a little bit flaky and it doesn't seem to be being spoke about but Cook is in shocking form at the moment.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 08, 2017, 08:42:23 PM
In these first 2 matches what I really wanted to see was runs for Stoneman, Vince and Malan, anything else is a bonus really.  Those 3 need to believe that they deserve to be there and can deliver in the series, if they buy into the idea that they're out of their depth and we don't stand a chance then half the battle is lost before a ball is bowled.  Cook and Root have the experience to be fine and I trust Bairstow to get the runs when it matters regardless of his form.  Based on those expectations I think we should be reasonably happy with the 2 matches.

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on November 09, 2017, 08:27:56 AM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on November 09, 2017, 09:16:26 AM
Withdrawals from next round of Sheffield Shield games appears to confirm the Aussie pace attack for the 1st Test

http://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/story/_/id/21346333/australia-ashes-pace-attack-revealed
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 09, 2017, 09:19:42 AM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test

Yep, so Curran will get a chance next week now but our options at 4th seamer are getting rather thin.  That said woakes and jimmy have had a good day and Crane and Overton haven't looked out of place.  On top of that we look likely to take a decent lead into the 2nd innings which shows that high scores might be tough with the pink ball here.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 09, 2017, 09:50:59 AM
Jimmy is looking in great nick.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on November 09, 2017, 01:19:29 PM
I'm a bit concerned by our play in the warm up games. We already look a little bit flaky and it doesn't seem to be being spoke about but Cook is in shocking form at the moment.

That's the whole point of the warm up games, to hopefully get rid of the rustiness before the Ashes start.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2017, 12:44:55 AM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test

Can't see him featuring anyway to be totally honest.  With no Stokes, I think we'll go cautious and have six batsmen with Bairstow at seven and maybe just the four bowlers.  Could wee see a side of Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Ballance, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 10, 2017, 02:19:03 AM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test

Can't see him featuring anyway to be totally honest.  With no Stokes, I think we'll go cautious and have six batsmen with Bairstow at seven and maybe just the four bowlers.  Could wee see a side of Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Ballance, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson?

I really hope that isn't the case. As much as Mo's bowling has come on, I think it is too much to expect him to be one of only 4 bowlers when Australia is usually a graveyard for visiting off spinners.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2017, 07:06:41 AM
Hmmm another pretty heavy collapse.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 10, 2017, 10:17:17 AM
Woakes is going well, Cricket Australia are 14-4 with Woakes having figures of 6-3-8-3

Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on November 10, 2017, 02:17:55 PM
Woakes is going well, Cricket Australia are 14-4 with Woakes having figures of 6-3-8-3



End of play today Cricket Australia recovered to 70-7 after being 25-7. Woakes figures now 10-4-17-4.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2017, 05:24:00 PM
Good to see Woakes getting into form.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: UK Redsox on November 11, 2017, 01:31:20 PM
I think that Ellyse Perry might be a bit good at sport
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on November 11, 2017, 02:07:13 PM
People over here have been making a little fuss over Graeme Swann suggesting the Australian batting lineup is among the weakest we've had in 20 years or so. Maybe fair enough if you compare it to what was around from, say, 1997 to 2009, but he must be forgetting some of the rubbish he got to bowl at.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 11, 2017, 02:50:40 PM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test

Can't see him featuring anyway to be totally honest.  With no Stokes, I think we'll go cautious and have six batsmen with Bairstow at seven and maybe just the four bowlers.  Could wee see a side of Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Ballance, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson?

I really hope that isn't the case. As much as Mo's bowling has come on, I think it is too much to expect him to be one of only 4 bowlers when Australia is usually a graveyard for visiting off spinners.

I'm just not sure there are any other real options now, unless we play a second spinner or someone like Overton plays.  It just goes to show the difference that a genuine all-rounder like Stokes can make to the balanced of a side. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 11, 2017, 03:39:03 PM

Bowling is where I have bigger concerns for the first test, With Stokes out and Ali looking 50/50 I think we look a bit thin.  Hopefully Crane will have another decent performance and Overton or Ball can put a hand up in the next couple of days, I'll feel a lot happier if they do.

Jake Ball has injured his ankle and is now also a doubt for the 1st Test

Can't see him featuring anyway to be totally honest.  With no Stokes, I think we'll go cautious and have six batsmen with Bairstow at seven and maybe just the four bowlers.  Could wee see a side of Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root, Malan, Ballance, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Broad and Anderson?

I really hope that isn't the case. As much as Mo's bowling has come on, I think it is too much to expect him to be one of only 4 bowlers when Australia is usually a graveyard for visiting off spinners.

I'm just not sure there are any other real options now, unless we play a second spinner or someone like Overton plays.  It just goes to show the difference that a genuine all-rounder like Stokes can make to the balanced of a side. 

Bairstow up to 6, Ali up to 7, Woakes up to 8 - they're all good enough to make those steps then bring in Overton or Curran to make a genuine 9 and 10 with Broad and Jimmy at 11.  I think that's a much stronger side than anything you can make by pulling in an extra batsman because it would just be another one with a question mark over him.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 11, 2017, 03:41:47 PM
Thats the way I would go Paul.

Overton bowled well in the last match.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Rotterdam on November 11, 2017, 06:08:33 PM
Our window cleaner is heading out to watch the Brisbane and Adelaide tests. He must be doing alright... 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: thick_mike on November 12, 2017, 11:50:50 AM
Really impressed with England's women's side batting out the day to draw the day night test. How many times have our men's side been in the same position and capitulated in the first session?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 13, 2017, 03:04:11 AM
Really impressed with England's women's side batting out the day to draw the day night test. How many times have our men's side been in the same position and capitulated in the first session?

Women's cricket in general has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years. It was an impressive effort to bat out 105 overs only losing 2 wickets.

I do think the Women's game lacks a bit of pace. Obviously the bowlers aren't going to be as quick as their male counterparts, so I think the organisers should consider shortening the pitches to something like 16-18 yards rather than the standard 22. Cricket is always a much more interesting game with pace.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 13, 2017, 04:58:27 AM
I've watched a little of this series and there's nothing wrong with the women's technique with the bat at all.  The bowling can be inconsistent though, the women seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length.

The big difference is with the fielding and in particular the catching, they generally need to create 15 chances per innings to take 10 wickets. 

Overall its definitely improving though and quite watchable.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 13, 2017, 08:02:53 AM
The schedule for the three Women's Ashes T20s is quite annoying. There is only one weekend game which starts at 0320 our time. Both the midweek games are day-nighters and start at the much more leisurely time of 0900. Why couldn't they have had two weekend games and had them all as day-nighters? Would have been able to watch a lot more, then.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2017, 08:52:16 AM
I've watched a little of this series and there's nothing wrong with the women's technique with the bat at all.  The bowling can be inconsistent though, the women seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length.

The big difference is with the fielding and in particular the catching, they generally need to create 15 chances per innings to take 10 wickets. 

Overall its definitely improving though and quite watchable.

Fielding is always the slowest skill to develop so there's no shock there.  The problem with the bowling is that they have to go to variations to make things happen because they don't get the pace and bounce which is so effective in the mens game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on November 13, 2017, 10:28:21 AM
My kids' school has got cricket on the timetable for girls for the first time ever next year.  My eldest is looking forward to it as she's quite handy with a bat and ball.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 13, 2017, 03:38:14 PM
I've watched a little of this series and there's nothing wrong with the women's technique with the bat at all.  The bowling can be inconsistent though, the women seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length.

The big difference is with the fielding and in particular the catching, they generally need to create 15 chances per innings to take 10 wickets. 

Overall its definitely improving though and quite watchable.

Fielding is always the slowest skill to develop so there's no shock there.  The problem with the bowling is that they have to go to variations to make things happen because they don't get the pace and bounce which is so effective in the mens game.

That's my thought process in thinking that a smaller pitch would be beneficial to the womens game.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2017, 03:43:46 PM
I've watched a little of this series and there's nothing wrong with the women's technique with the bat at all.  The bowling can be inconsistent though, the women seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length.

The big difference is with the fielding and in particular the catching, they generally need to create 15 chances per innings to take 10 wickets. 

Overall its definitely improving though and quite watchable.

Fielding is always the slowest skill to develop so there's no shock there.  The problem with the bowling is that they have to go to variations to make things happen because they don't get the pace and bounce which is so effective in the mens game.

That's my thought process in thinking that a smaller pitch would be beneficial to the womens game.

You might be right but I think a lot of people would have a problem with it in some misplaced sexism accusation.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 13, 2017, 03:54:56 PM
I've watched a little of this series and there's nothing wrong with the women's technique with the bat at all.  The bowling can be inconsistent though, the women seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length.

The big difference is with the fielding and in particular the catching, they generally need to create 15 chances per innings to take 10 wickets. 

Overall its definitely improving though and quite watchable.

Fielding is always the slowest skill to develop so there's no shock there.  The problem with the bowling is that they have to go to variations to make things happen because they don't get the pace and bounce which is so effective in the mens game.

That's my thought process in thinking that a smaller pitch would be beneficial to the womens game.

You might be right but I think a lot of people would have a problem with it in some misplaced sexism accusation.

Unfortunately so.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on November 15, 2017, 08:11:31 AM
Woakes took 6-54 this morning, good stuff.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 15, 2017, 09:20:57 AM
Woakes took 6-54 this morning, good stuff.

Moeen bowled 16 overs which is also good news. We have been hampered by injuries already on this tour so it's good to see him back bowling.

Bairstow was off for an hour after bruising a finger but was back behind the stumps later in the day.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ColinMac on November 15, 2017, 09:54:24 AM
Heading out to Brisbane next Monday, feeling a little more confident than i was a week ago..
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 15, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
We dropped three catches apparently. We really need to make sure our catching is bang on come the Ashes. Good to see Woakes in the wickets, but is anyone concerned by Broad's form? He wasn't great in the summer and that appears to be continuing.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 15, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
Heading out to Brisbane next Monday, feeling a little more confident than i was a week ago..

The Olbiyun twat that works for me goes on Saturday but has 3 days in Singapore before going on to Brisbane. He is there for the first two tests.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 16, 2017, 12:16:31 AM
We dropped three catches apparently. We really need to make sure our catching is bang on come the Ashes. Good to see Woakes in the wickets, but is anyone concerned by Broad's form? He wasn't great in the summer and that appears to be continuing.

Broad cleaned up the final wicket early on day 2 which is good.  The other defence I'll offer is that, if he was going at 4+ and not getting wickets I'd be worried but right now he does give us some control of the scoreboard which allows someone like Woakes to be a little more expensive by being really aggressive in spells, it's why I always thought people were unfairly critical of Bresnan as well.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 16, 2017, 07:02:33 AM
Good to see most of the batsmen getting some runs, particularly Cook.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on November 16, 2017, 07:57:24 AM
Good to see most of the batsmen getting some runs, particularly Cook.

Yes a good confidence booster for the them before the ashes. Cook, Stoneman, Root and Malan all in the runs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 16, 2017, 08:17:54 AM
Talking about women’s cricket remember that game is in its infancy. In time popularity will lead to greater participation and natural selection will prevail with better athletes coming through that will lead to eliminating most of the current short comings.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on November 16, 2017, 10:29:26 AM
The Australian lineup for the first test has reportedly been leaked, and there's been a couple of odd decisions - Shaun Marsh in for Maxwell, and perhaps more bafflingly, Tim Paine pretty much out of the cold in to replace Wade as keeper.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 16, 2017, 10:49:14 AM
The Australian lineup for the first test has reportedly been leaked, and there's been a couple of odd decisions - Shaun Marsh in for Maxwell, and perhaps more bafflingly, Tim Paine pretty much out of the cold in to replace Wade as keeper.

Shaun Marsh is an enigma but has the technique to score runs at Test level and Paine would have been the keeper for the last 3 years Atleast had it not been for injury. They've treated Peter Nevill like shit though, is Renshaw in?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 16, 2017, 10:49:54 AM
I hope that causes unrest within their squad and journos further inflame it by criticising ACB.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: passitsideways on November 16, 2017, 11:19:49 AM
The Australian lineup for the first test has reportedly been leaked, and there's been a couple of odd decisions - Shaun Marsh in for Maxwell, and perhaps more bafflingly, Tim Paine pretty much out of the cold in to replace Wade as keeper.

Shaun Marsh is an enigma but has the technique to score runs at Test level and Paine would have been the keeper for the last 3 years Atleast had it not been for injury. They've treated Peter Nevill like shit though, is Renshaw in?

Renshaw out - kinda harsh on him, but he's had a slow start to the season whereas Bancroft has been in sensational form.

Marsh doesn't make sense on any level though - not the incumbent, not in any better form, much older, doesn't bowl, inferior fielder, as much of a boom-bust player as Maxwell.

EDIT: I should say, this could still all be total bollocks, everyone's just really antsy, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 17, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
Warm up game going well even if the standard of opposition is questionable.  It is obviously a long series, but I'm just increasingly getting the feeling that the first innings of the first test could be crucial in determining what follows.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 17, 2017, 01:46:40 PM
It's good that Stoneman and Malan have centuries to their name now. I think the Aussie squad selection is interesting, for all the talk of England's squad they seem to have pushed the panic button a bit with their batting.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 18, 2017, 08:30:44 AM
I'd drop Broad. He's a passenger these days.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 18, 2017, 08:35:08 AM
That's a pretty horrible last day from the bowlers. I appreciate it's a flat pitch but still it's not a great boost to the confidence.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 18, 2017, 09:26:09 AM
I'd drop Broad. He's a passenger these days.

Broad can hold up an end whilst not conceding many runs thus allowing other bowlers to attack more. He's an important part of our bowling unit.

Our successful Ashes campaigns have had a workhorse bowler. Hoggard in 2005, Bresnan in 2010/11 are prime examples. Broad has enough experience & know how to frustrate a batsman until they make a mistake. He's not immune to being dropped but he's enough credit for the time being.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 18, 2017, 07:15:18 PM
Overton's bowling in this game has made the selection decision between him and Ball interesting. He has not bowled well at all, the thing in his favour generally is he's a better bat. But his performance has opened that decision again.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 18, 2017, 08:05:13 PM
I'd go with Overton personally because I think the tail is just too long if you have Ball in there.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 18, 2017, 08:51:40 PM
I don't disagree in principle but we're in no position to carry a bowler whoever plays.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 18, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
I'm as pessimistic about our chances going into an Ashes series as I've been for 15 years if I'm honest.  I dont think we'll score the runs required and our attack looks weak without Stokes to back up Anderson and Broad. Personally I think we'll get hammered again.

The only thing that gives me any optimism is the fact that this Aussie side really isn't all that, certainly as weak a batting line up as they've had in years. But home advantage and their pace attack will be too strong for us. 4-0 Australia.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 18, 2017, 10:49:02 PM
I'm as pessimistic about our chances going into an Ashes series as I've been for 15 years if I'm honest.  I dont think we'll score the runs required and our attack looks weak without Stokes to back up Anderson and Broad. Personally I think we'll get hammered again.

The only thing that gives me any optimism is the fact that this Aussie side really isn't all that, certainly as weak a batting line up as they've had in years. But home advantage and their pace attack will be too strong for us. 4-0 Australia.

Why ignore Woakes, he's a better bowler than Stokes and Broad?

I honestly don't know how this series will go, I think both teams are in a fragile place and 1 poor innings could make or break either but I think their batting is every bit as weak as ours and whilst they have more pace in their attack I don't think they're as accurate as you need at this level.  I think we'll see lots of 300-400 scores and all the tests will be decided by 1-2 key sessions.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 19, 2017, 04:34:28 AM
There's a lot to like about Woakes, he's a Villa fan, plays for the Bears and is a very handy cricketer. But he's not a match winner like Ben Stokes is and he doesn't have the aura and the match winning spells that Stuart Broad does.

Imho, if Stokes and Mark Wood had been available Woakes doesn't make the starting eleven.

Hope I'm proved wrong ofcourse.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Smith on November 19, 2017, 07:14:41 AM
There's a lot to like about Woakes, he's a Villa fan, plays for the Bears and is a very handy cricketer. But he's not a match winner like Ben Stokes is and he doesn't have the aura and the match winning spells that Stuart Broad does.

Imho, if Stokes and Mark Wood had been available Woakes doesn't make the starting eleven.

Hope I'm proved wrong ofcourse.

I think you probably are wrong. Before his injury he was a regular plus he is much handier with the bat than Wood.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 19, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
In the 12 months before his injury Woakes was easily our best fast bowler and one of the best in the world. He's an important part of the attack and lower middle order.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 19, 2017, 02:08:19 PM
Woakes has a better strike rate, better economy and better average than Stokes or Wood and, after 18 tests, he's already bowled a few of those spells you're saying he's incapable of.  He's not got the aggression of Stokes but he's every bit as important to our team.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2017, 05:54:07 PM
My selection for Brisbane:
http://bbc.in/2zjE7WT
Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince
Moeen
Bairstow
Woakes
Anderson
Broad
Curran
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2017, 08:29:10 PM
Woakes has a better strike rate, better economy and better average than Stokes or Wood and, after 18 tests, he's already bowled a few of those spells you're saying he's incapable of.  He's not got the aggression of Stokes but he's every bit as important to our team.

I like Woakes and he's become really important but Stokes is a more vital balancing part of the side. He's probably the best all rounder in the world. That is not diminishing Woakes importance as a player, but Stokes is talismanic.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 19, 2017, 08:35:41 PM
And my point with Wood is about pace. This is the area where we'll fall short. Previous records against the like of Pakistan means nothing when your playing at the Gabba which has more pace ans bounce than anywhere else. Horses for courses and all that. If they were available both Stokes and Wood would be playing IMO.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2017, 08:42:30 PM
I'd have Woakes in front of Wood, but I'd have Wood in front of Ball or Overton.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: spangley1812 on November 19, 2017, 08:45:44 PM
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Anderson
Broad
Crane

This would be my team........My choice of picking Crane is that both Overton/Ball have failed to impress in the warm up games and everytime Crane has played he has got wickets and the 4th choice seamer would only bowl about 10/15 overs in a day   
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2017, 09:02:31 PM
I wouldn't play a second spinner unless it was an absolute dust bowl and even then I'm not sure I would.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2017, 09:57:44 PM
I personally think a fourth seamer is going to be necessary in Australia and another spinner a luxury.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on November 19, 2017, 10:27:15 PM
Not long now.  Don’t think it will be 5.0.  I sense a team up for it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 20, 2017, 12:57:09 AM
Woakes has a better strike rate, better economy and better average than Stokes or Wood and, after 18 tests, he's already bowled a few of those spells you're saying he's incapable of.  He's not got the aggression of Stokes but he's every bit as important to our team.

Yep, Woakes is a starter in the side, especially as his batting is strong.  I can see the reasoning to include Wood on Australian pitches, but I think he would be competing against abroad and Anderson for a spot. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 20, 2017, 01:02:17 AM
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Anderson
Broad
Crane

This would be my team........My choice of picking Crane is that both Overton/Ball have failed to impress in the warm up games and everytime Crane has played he has got wickets and the 4th choice seamer would only bowl about 10/15 overs in a day

Anderson at nine means a longish tail.  Broad's batting has deteriorated severely over the years, so as someone mentioned above, I can see them going with Overton at nine simply because he can offer something with the bat. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 21, 2017, 12:43:19 AM
We're about an hour north of Brisbane and it's been chucking it down here since Saturday.  The forecast for the Test is fine but it wont be as hot as it normally is (25c-27C) with the odd shower around so there should be plenty of moisture in the pitch for the bowlers, especially on day one. 

They'll be no reverse and probably not the heat to open up any cracks as the test wears on.  So losing the toss wont be a disaster as I dont see the wicket deteriorating like say it might in Adelaide on days 4 and 5.  It might even be one of those rare occasions where, if it looks a bit green, you put the opposition in and as the best batting conditions would be days 2 and 3.

 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 21, 2017, 03:27:30 AM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-injured-at-ashes-training-trying-to-take-a-catch/news-story/0b72dd22084095da699f27dcb3e8ac8b

Nothing trivial I hope....
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 21, 2017, 07:05:31 AM
I see Lyon and Hazlewood have been spouting off. It's very strange because surely when you do this it just provides ammunition and even more incentive to us.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 21, 2017, 07:11:23 AM
I see Lyon and Hazlewood have been spouting off. It's very strange because surely when you do this it just provides ammunition and even more incentive to us.

I'd agree with that, but on the flip side perhaps it shows how comfortable Australia feel? It's not as if they have to worry about a couple of rapid fast bowlers who they will have incensed
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 21, 2017, 10:56:30 AM
England Women gave themselves a great chance with a massive stand (a 100 and a 50) that left us needing 12 from the last 3 overs but we then lost both wickets in the space of 5 balls. They've been training with the men I suspect.

That said they have nudged along to needing 2 for the win from the final 7.


EDIT - and they did it in 1 with a 4 to end the 19th over.


Congratulations ladies.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 21, 2017, 11:11:25 AM
Very good that was along with some dodgy Aussie fielding.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 21, 2017, 11:31:16 AM
No point in having a drawn series. Tell the Aussie cowardesses that we want a decider.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the men's series, as England are the holders...
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Nev on November 21, 2017, 11:39:59 AM
I see Lyon and Hazlewood have been spouting off. It's very strange because surely when you do this it just provides ammunition and even more incentive to us.

If you have to speak from the gutter, as I believe Lyon has with his talk of ending careers, then you have lost the moral ground before a ball has been bowled.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: manic-road on November 21, 2017, 07:01:26 PM
Just over 48 hours till the Ashes start, I see it's only on BT and can't see any highlights on terrestrial TV. When cricket needs a boost as many teams are struggling to field teams where I live it's a shame the test series won't be open to a wider audience.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ColinMac on November 22, 2017, 06:47:25 AM
Over in Brisbane, every Aussie we have met has been typically loud mouthed and brash, weather isn’t great here so there will be rain delays, if conditions today are replicated in the morning then England definitely want to bowl first.
Cant wait for it, need to shove their words down their throats.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 22, 2017, 07:03:40 AM
Ball ahead of Overton then.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 22, 2017, 08:33:09 AM
Ball ahead of Overton then.

Yep, which I suppose could be viewed as a positive selection.  Probably means Broad batting at 9 though and I'm sure the Australian quicks will target him.

Really looking forward to it now and as I said in an earlier post, the first innings of this game could really set the tone for the rest of the series. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 22, 2017, 11:26:49 AM
Over in Brisbane, every Aussie we have met has been typically loud mouthed and brash, weather isn’t great here so there will be rain delays, if conditions today are replicated in the morning then England definitely want to bowl first.
Cant wait for it, need to shove their words down their throats.


Imagine living here. Their capacity for brashness laced with lashings of hypocracy is phenomenal on these occasions.

Their complete amnesia regards David Warner's unprovocked punching of Joe Root whilst demanding Ben Stokes miss the entire tour regardless of whether charges are laid being example A.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: nodge on November 22, 2017, 04:49:06 PM
Ball ahead of Overton then.

Yep, which I suppose could be viewed as a positive selection.  Probably means Broad batting at 9 though and I'm sure the Australian quicks will target him.

Really looking forward to it now and as I said in an earlier post, the first innings of this game could really set the tone for the rest of the series. 

The first ball set the tone in 2006/7
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 22, 2017, 05:49:31 PM
I am predicting 2-1 either way. Their batting looks shit.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 22, 2017, 06:27:34 PM
We need a strong first day.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 22, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
If the weather is as suggested I would put them in if we get chance.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 22, 2017, 06:36:07 PM
What we need to ensure is that our bowling is disciplined. We cannot give them an inch and if we do that I'm convinced they'll buckle.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 22, 2017, 06:51:13 PM
I am predicting 2-1 either way. Their batting looks shit.

I wouldn't bet against that, I don't think either squad is in a good place right now.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 22, 2017, 08:57:02 PM
Well the time is fast approaching to stuff their words back up their proverbial ..... It is very important that England manage the first day whether they bat or bowl as that will set the tone for the rest of the series. If Aussies bat make sure they are 7 or more down by close of play preferably all gone. If England bat make sure Aussies are not batting before stumps.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2017, 09:12:59 PM
Was in Oz for the 1994/5 Ashes.  It’s hard to explain how big it is over there.  It’s all everybody talks about.  All the TV product ads were specially made about the Ashes and beating us.  It’s like the World Cup with bells on.  There were SO many England fans there that series that the trains, greyhound coaches and internal flights were log jammed.  It was great.   Sydney morning news reckoned that there was half a million young Brits in Oz in December 94

Anyhow....”even ‘your’ queen wants us to win..”
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2017, 09:15:39 PM
All out to win at the Gabba at all costs.  And the series would be ours.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2017, 09:19:49 PM
What we need to ensure is that our bowling is disciplined. We cannot give them an inch and if we do that I'm convinced they'll buckle.
Yep. They need to be switched on 100% , 100% all of the time. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2017, 09:36:08 PM
Over in Brisbane, every Aussie we have met has been typically loud mouthed and brash, weather isn’t great here so there will be rain delays, if conditions today are replicated in the morning then England definitely want to bowl first.
Cant wait for it, need to shove their words down their throats.

Spent quite a while in 0z 94 to 95.  Was in Brisbane for about 3 weeks on the West End.  I found it an odd place.  A big city but quite a tame and limited night life.  Is it still the same? Although had a very memorable night when a lovely fit young lady and I jumped the fence into a newly opened artificial beach and pool complex on the south bank about 3am (still 29 degrees) and went skinny dipping until chased out by a very angry rotund security guard.  Happy days.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Proposition Joe on November 22, 2017, 10:16:46 PM
Mornin' Richie, mornin' everybody.

I think I've lost touch big time with cricket these days.  Was the last time we were in Oz really the 5-0?  I thought we'd been over there since then, we seem to play them every year and a half or so.  A few names in the England squad I've never seen play (Stoneman, Malan, Overton), but looking at our bowling attack, I think it's too pop-gun for Aussie pitches, at least traditional ones - although I know they are fond of drop-ins now because they share the grounds with those guys with mullets wearing wife-beaters.  And with a fair few Ashes rookies in there I can see us being skittled a lot unless Cook scores big.  It still seems to be Cook scores big, we score big; Cook fails, we collapse.

A Hampshire-supporting friend of mine was willing to bet me any money that Vince will be top scorer in the series, but I think that's cloud cuckoo land!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: KevinGage on November 23, 2017, 01:08:53 AM
Tream s? Kodjia is being unpredictable. Usual story.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 23, 2017, 05:57:46 AM
Awful time to lose a wicket after a good partnership
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2017, 06:44:07 AM
Bollocks terrible blow.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 23, 2017, 06:45:38 AM
That was fucking idiotic beyond belief from Vince, never a run in that in a million years. He's played so well and looked so untroubled. We've just completely gifted them an opening. I can potentially see this going downhill fast
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Nev on November 23, 2017, 07:37:39 AM
Momentum swinging to the big mouthed blokes with shit facial hair. Very nervy ending to the day, what started so well is in danger of evaporating.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Bernie on November 23, 2017, 07:38:16 AM
That was fucking idiotic beyond belief from Vince, never a run in that in a million years. He's played so well and looked so untroubled. We've just completely gifted them an opening. I can potentially see this going downhill fast
Indeed, Root's gone now
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2017, 07:43:33 AM
We need to counter attack now, it was fine when Vince and Stoneham were going but we're going nowhere and we're losing wickets. We need to put the pressure back on them.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Proposition Joe on November 23, 2017, 07:57:53 AM
We need to counter attack now, it was fine when Vince and Stoneham were going but we're going nowhere and we're losing wickets. We need to put the pressure back on them.

We are effectively 8 down given what their pace attack will do to our tail. Just really Bairstow left that can cause them problems. I'm not sure a quick couple of boundaries from Moeen followed by him chucking his wicket away will help us much. I'd rather see us still 4 down at the end of the day, even if we only add a handful more runs.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 23, 2017, 08:33:17 AM
To only manage 196 in a day is pretty slow going these days.  The game is really finely balanced now and I just worry that without Stokes our lower order looks a little fragile.  That said, if Ali and Malan can build a good partnership tomorrow and get us up to around 300 then we should be in a decent position. 

It is a positive that the batsmen who had doubts over them scored some runs today. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 23, 2017, 09:32:22 AM
In fairness, it wasn't 196 "in a day" as there wasn't a full day's play. Still slow going, admittedly. We had picked up the speed in the last half and hour or so. Hopefully the run rate will improve further if Moeen hangs around.

Really need the middle/tail order to score well. 350 will give us a chance. 250 and we are already staring into the abyss.

At least it starts half an hour earlier tonight.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villan For Life on November 23, 2017, 09:44:08 AM
Honours are just about even after the first days play. Usually in an Ashes series the side that is on top after the first day are the ones who hit the ground running. Now for our misfiring batting line up to score well without Cook & Root contributing is a positive thing and sets us up well for the series.

Did anyone else thing there was a hell of a lot of turn in the pitch for day one of a test?
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: ColinMac on November 23, 2017, 09:50:19 AM
Over in Brisbane, every Aussie we have met has been typically loud mouthed and brash, weather isn’t great here so there will be rain delays, if conditions today are replicated in the morning then England definitely want to bowl first.
Cant wait for it, need to shove their words down their throats.

Spent quite a while in 0z 94 to 95.  Was in Brisbane for about 3 weeks on the West End.  I found it an odd place.  A big city but quite a tame and limited night life.  Is it still the same? Although had a very memorable night when a lovely fit young lady and I jumped the fence into a newly opened artificial beach and pool complex on the south bank about 3am (still 29 degrees) and went skinny dipping until chased out by a very angry rotund security guard.  Happy days.

From what I’ve seen so far, there’s plenty of nightlife, Southside is good, Riverside massively overpriced and full of idiots, been trying to avoid anywhere with a lot of England fans as well there’s and element of England football here, actually had a few choruses of “10 German Bombers” today.

As for the cricket, Australia have a slight advantage, they have a new ball in the morning , Ali and Malan have to survive the first hour or we are in trouble.

Finally..”The Gabbatoir”? They were doing Mexican waves! I have coughed things up that were scarier than that place today.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Risso on November 23, 2017, 10:10:44 AM
I don't really think it's even more 60/40 weighted in favour of the Aussies. A lot is resting on the two batsmen at the crease at the moment.  If one of them goes cheaply tomorrow morning, then I think we'll struggle to get towards 300.  There's always the possibility of a Moeen slog though I suppose, if wickets start to fall quickly.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Smith on November 23, 2017, 10:47:19 AM
I don't really think it's even more 60/40 weighted in favour of the Aussies. A lot is resting on the two batsmen at the crease at the moment.  If one of them goes cheaply tomorrow morning, then I think we'll struggle to get towards 300.  There's always the possibility of a Moeen slog though I suppose, if wickets start to fall quickly.

There are still Barstow and Woakes to come. I think it depends on how we deal with the new ball. Negotiate that, continue with the positive approach and we can post a competitive score. It also looks like a good toss to have won, Moeen could have a field day in the 4th innings.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 23, 2017, 10:50:28 AM
I think it's pretty even.  Looking at both teams it's hard to see many games where the first innings is much beyond 300 if all the pitches play like this.  With the current pair and Bairstow and Woakes to come I think we're a decent bet for that, The scoring rate is pretty slow but that's ok because today was all about showing that we're not the sacrificial lamb that some were suggesting.  I think tomorrow could be the key day for this one, if we see off the new ball with a bit of flair we'll go into their innings much more confident than we might have been.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: OzVilla on November 23, 2017, 11:16:09 AM
Funny day really, could've been better, could've been much worse. The main thing from an England point of view was the confidence it'll give Stoneman, Vince and Malan that they do belong in the Ashes Test arena. 

It's one of those often used phrases in Cricket to say the next session is vital but with the game so evenly balanced tomoorow mornings session is massive in the context of this game, maybe even the series.

I think I'd have taken 196-4 at the start of play though.



Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: olaftab on November 23, 2017, 11:19:43 AM
Agreed OzVilla. I was going to say more or less what you have said. This is very good start for England I think and the 3 new guys will take immense confidence from it.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tomd2103 on November 23, 2017, 11:30:43 AM
Funny day really, could've been better, could've been much worse. The main thing from an England point of view was the confidence it'll give Stoneman, Vince and Malan that they do belong in the Ashes Test arena. 

It's one of those often used phrases in Cricket to say the next session is vital but with the game so evenly balanced tomoorow mornings session is massive in the context of this game, maybe even the series.

I think I'd have taken 196-4 at the start of play though.

Probably 1 wicket too many to be entirely satisfactory.  196-3 would have been a bit more comfortable as would 250-4. 
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Dr Butler on November 23, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
did anyone watch the BT coverage ? I saw a bit and thought it was bland, may be I am missing Bumble, Holding, Gower etc...

196/4...I would of took that before play started, need to bat until at least tea tomorrow :)

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 23, 2017, 11:47:06 AM
did anyone watch the BT coverage ? I saw a bit and thought it was bland, may be I am missing Bumble, Holding, Gower etc...

196/4...I would of took that before play started, need to bat until at least tea tomorrow :)

UTV
The Doc

Who have they got in the team?  I didn't even realise they'd got the rights for it until it was mentioned here the other day.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: paul_e on November 23, 2017, 11:57:32 AM
did anyone watch the BT coverage ? I saw a bit and thought it was bland, may be I am missing Bumble, Holding, Gower etc...

196/4...I would of took that before play started, need to bat until at least tea tomorrow :)

UTV
The Doc

Who have they got in the team?  I didn't even realise they'd got the rights for it until it was mentioned here the other day.

Found it, mostly a TMS setup with a few extra aussies and a specialist presenter:

Matt Smith
Alison Mitchell
Vaughan
Boycott
Swann
Ponting
Fleming
Glichrist
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2017, 01:25:09 PM
I think Moeen and Malan did really well at the end, the counter attack is vital. It's really hard to work out what a good score is on this pitch, because it started to speed up and turn but no idea whether it'll flatten out.

It would also be good to keep Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins out there as I think they'll struggle with the bowling workload.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Chris Jameson on November 23, 2017, 02:20:50 PM
I fell asleep before it started so watched the highlights, Boycott pointed out it was proper Test cricket with a good battle between bowler and batsman, made a welcome change from seeing every other delivery flying to the boundary, proper cricket!

I wish Graeme Swann wasn't allowed anywhere near a commentary box.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 23, 2017, 05:49:28 PM
I would have taken that at the start of the day. 350 Looks a decent total on that wicket so seeing off the new ball in the first hour will be vital.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Villa Lew on November 23, 2017, 06:16:06 PM
Starts 1/2 hour earlier tonight at 11.30
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 23, 2017, 06:22:18 PM
Just enough time to catch up on some TV recordings on my box then. I am attempting to go straight through tonight watching it again so will be fucked tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tom jennings III on November 23, 2017, 06:57:17 PM
Anyone know how to watch the highlights without being a BT customer? I'd love a PM if poss. Apologies if this contravenes any rules and regs!
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 23, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
Have Channel 5 got any highlights? Most of their usual presenters are on BT.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: tom jennings III on November 23, 2017, 07:33:06 PM
BT sport online have got free highlights! Woop di woooooop, short video but better than nothing
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2017, 09:48:28 PM
Right England please be batting when I wake up.
Title: Re: The Cricket Thread 2017
Post by: Astral Weeks on November 23, 2017, 11:05:06 PM
BT sport online have got free highlights! Woop di woooooop, short video but better than nothing
Eight whole minutes. Thanks a million BT. How have the ECB agreed to this?