Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: olaftab on September 27, 2016, 11:42:45 PM
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Well I am afraid I have had enough. Sack him in the morning please Dr Xia.
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Well I wouldn't sack him in 5 games time if he wins 4 and draws 1 of them.
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I like him, Aftab mate. I don't like our last few minutes capitulations, however. I think the players need to take a bit more responsibity, to be fair. Elphick and Jedinak in particular.
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He has become yet another failed appointment in our long catalogue of disastrous managers. It's time for our new owner to recognise that RDM's association with a fully formed European Championship team allowed him a CV that well oversold his underlying competence. Let's also discount the Albion promotion. A fairly good team that didn't need much input from him. With an unformed team there is no room for hands off leadership and from what I see of Roberto on the sidelines, he is very hands off. Time for a manager who gets in there, mixes it up with the players and provides some role modeling. Without this type of leadership we will be lucky to finish in the top half of this division
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Morning Nik. I called out Elphick for what he is, shit, during the Brentford game and some people around me didn't like it. But he is however both him and Jedinak were signed by RDM.
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The players do have some responsibility here, however they can't be changed (until January at least) so RDM has to go!
The guy is completely inept in every area;
Tactics - poor/bizarre
Style of play - confused/non existent
PR - shocking (see pre Barnsley presser re hitting top gear)
Enthusiasm - none
Passion - none (see half hearted celebration of Tshibola equaliser)
Desire - none
Transfers - unbalanced
Training - what training (no improvement week on week)
No wonder the players are under performing when you have a guy in charge who is so underwhelming!
Don't wait until after Preston, do it now, and use international break to replace him!
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No idea. Honestly I dont know what the problem is at our club. I actually think he is a pretty fine manager caught up in whatever the hell is wrong with us.
Then again he is the only part of the equation we CAN change today, so... sure. Why not? What do we have to lose?
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Tactically he has gone from a side from that created loads of chances per game, missed most of them and conceded late, to a side that creates next to nothing, scores one and concedes late. The natural progression will be the side that creates nothing and concedes late. For me sack him before the season is completely lost.
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As I've said, not winning when well on top and creating chances hasn't allowed any margin for error when we hit a bad run and don't create chances. Now the chances are drying up so you can work out the rest.
I think this season is already finished for any chance of automatic promotion - let's be frank 3 wins in 47 just isn't going to turn in to 26 wins in 36 which is what we'd need so I think we're only looking at play offs already.
I think the weekend is his first must win game, lose or draw (especially to a late equalizer) and he's gone I think. Failing that a good run staves off sacking but it'll need to be a bloody good run now including winning at Blose. I can't see it now. Gone sometime between Sunday and Bonfire night depending of the Dr's patience.
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Sack the ******.
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Last chance saloon on Saturday. I don't want to see another draw til 2020.
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I'd give him until Xmas, and if we aren't within 6 points of the play offs I'd walk him round Doug's rose garden.
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I'd just like photographic evidence he actually speaks to Steve Clarke. I can't believe between the two of them they are so dumb.
Saying that, I expect one to be gone before Xmas. Which one, I have no idea.
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Last chance saloon on Saturday. I don't want to see another draw til 2020.
Don't you mean 20 20 ;)
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Whichever way you look at it whoever the manager is one win in eleven gives the club owner at any club ample proof that he should make a change.
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Am truly disappointed with RDM but the alternatives being mentioned as he replacement don't seem to be an improvement. Thought that Clarke would have brought more to the party as well.
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Clarke brings nothing to the party. Another over rated tosser. I am in despair about how idiotic our managerial appointments are - Huddersfield raid the Euro market for someone we've never heard of and top the table. We go for the Euro Cup winning $1000 suit wearing smoothie and look like the most expensively assembled Sunday league side in the universe. Go figure. The Dr ain't as smart as he thinks he is.
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I liked the manager, liked his signings. I know nothing - ask somebody else.
But get rid.
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I'd give him until Xmas, and if we aren't within 6 points of the play offs I'd walk him round Doug's rose garden.
We are already 7 adrift.
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Basically it is now must win on Saturday. Nothing else will do.
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Although I was underwhelmed when RDM was appointed we are now between a rock and hard place. We have had too many managers in the past few years which doesn't lead to stability. His signings look poor / average at the moment but if we sack him a new appointee will change the squad again leading to more instability.
I always said to my son we wouldn't bounce straight back and may need a season or two to sort the club out and that looks as if it may be the case.
For me I'd stick with him for the season to see what he can do but understand th frustration of the fans as we really should be where we are but we are because of our previous incompetent owner.
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What's the point in trying to create stability with a manager that is clearly clueless?
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Big Fat Sams Claret and Blue Army !
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Where's the until Xmas option?
He needs to pick what he thinks is his best team & formation, which may have been the one last night, and give them 4/5/6 games in a row to play with and get used to each other. Chopping and changing isn't helping.
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Big Fat Sams Claret and Blue Army !
If he became our manager, I can't see myself buying tickets to watch us. We're never going to win anything. I just want to see Villa play attacking football.
Big Fat Head Sam is a knob.
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Nigel Pearson.
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We signed RDM as potential champions whereas now we'd be appointing based on being a mid-table championship. After RDM where do we go, I fear we would start shopping around in managers which would be out of their depth within a club the size of Villa.
For that reason I'd wait until christmas (at least) whereupon there will either be better managers available (Hughes/Billic?).
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I wonder how RDM managed to win the Champions League with Chelski?
Maybe he just tossed them the ball and told them to go out and enjoy themselves.
His formations and substitutions are baffling.
Doesn't he realise that this is Championship football not Champions League and it's reasonably simple, 442 will do in most cases.
It shouldn't be that hard to put together a solid team from the players we have, just use them in the positions they were bought for.
Like someone else said on here a lot of the football down here in division 2 isn't that great.
I watch a few of the other Championship games each weekend and think we should be stuffing these.
I would give him some more time but not much more.
If he were to go now who is there to come in?
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I think my issue with him is that he shows no signs of learning from his mistakes. Last night there was nothing to stop him putting a centre half on 10 minutes from time to shore it up and move to a counter attacking style. Instead he brought on Gestede for Adomah. If we were good at seeing it through fine but we are not. We have proved that not once but 4 times in 9 games before yesterday. Do something different. Try something different in the last 10 minutes. It's like Bart Simpson getting zapped in Lisa's experiment. Even a hamster learned faster. I have concluded RDM is just stupid. I would take Bruce or Allardyce over him. On account that we wouldd likely get out of the division. We can worry about the rest later.
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As it stands his Spine Gollini ,Elphick and Jedinek all look questionable ..pointless having best attackers with an error prone goalie ,dodgy defender and a midfielder enforcer with the turning circle and speed of a route master bus.
Adomah is another one ,buy a winger then sub him for your target man ..twice !!
For me has to go he has played average teams and not won, his only in is against the worst team in league.Luton in cup was an embarrassment and dr Tony duely gave RDM more funds and it's still piss poor.
It Norwich in thats 13 points off top I belive that is simply not good enough when you had a whole summer and 50mil to spend in this league
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You have to give him time, the mess he took on was unpresented at the beginning. Sack him now and we start to become a derby county or Leeds united
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Sack him now and we start to become a derby county or Leeds united
We need to get another 3 points before we become a Leeds United.
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Review at 15 matches but he needs to win at least 3 before that - sick of it...
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I've put until the end of the season but with the caveat if we're still only a couple of points above drop zone, or worse, on Jan 1st I'd sack him then. Yes, results have been atrocious and right now I'm not convinced by him but he's got to be given more of a chance in my book. Dare I say it, solid top half finish this season and promotion next would be acceptable.
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no it wouldn't, not after spending the money we have.
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Well it was obvious that rebuilding the squad (again) would take time to gel but to do what we are doing every match, is a massive problem which seems like never going away. We only turn up for 30 minutes or so and we switch off too easily either not taking our chances and giving away soft goals.
These games come thick and fast, with that and training why are we still not putting the ball in the net and being more focused, showing energy and a willingness to win for more than a third of the match? No excuses really that I can think of anymore.
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Well it was obvious that rebuilding the squad (again) would take time to gel but to do what we are doing every match, is a massive problem which seems like never going away. We only turn up for 30 minutes or so and we switch off too easily either not taking our chances and giving away soft goals.
These games come thick and fast, with that and training why are we still not putting the ball in the net and being more focused, showing energy and a willingness to win for more than a third of the match? No excuses really that I can think of anymore.
Do you have to "gel" to pass a ball accurately or make considered and effective substitutions?
I can understand our defence needing time to work together and even forgive the odd daft or late goal at this stage but that wouldn't matter of we had already scored 3...
Just realised that may look like I am disagreeing with IanJ when I'm not ;-)
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Well it was obvious that rebuilding the squad (again) would take time to gel but to do what we are doing every match, is a massive problem which seems like never going away. We only turn up for 30 minutes or so and we switch off too easily either not taking our chances and giving away soft goals.
These games come thick and fast, with that and training why are we still not putting the ball in the net and being more focused, showing energy and a willingness to win for more than a third of the match? No excuses really that I can think of anymore.
Do you have to "gel" to pass a ball accurately or make considered and effective substitutions?
I can understand our defence needing time to work together and even forgive the odd daft or late goal at this stage but that wouldn't matter of we had already scored 3...
Just realised that may look like I am disagreeing with IanJ when I'm not ;-)
Ha ha! I was about to say something before your edit!
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After 10 games in this very poor league with the squad we have, the bare minimum would be W5 D3 L2.
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Big Fat Sams Claret and Blue Army !
If he became our manager, I can't see myself buying tickets to watch us. We're never going to win anything. I just want to see Villa play attacking football.
Big Fat Head Sam is a knob.
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Nigel Pearson.
Well keep off twitter as people are saying bring Sherwood back
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If were in this division next year I don't think I could stand it
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Big Fat Sams Claret and Blue Army !
If he became our manager, I can't see myself buying tickets to watch us. We're never going to win anything. I just want to see Villa play attacking football.
Big Fat Head Sam is a knob.
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Nigel Pearson.
Well keep off twitter as people are saying bring Sherwood back
Oh dear, really?
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If were in this division next year I don't think I could stand it
I think you'll have to get used to the idea. If we're going anywhere, it certainly isn't up.
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Sack now, never rated him as a manager. All bluster and no ideas.
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Keep. We'll win on Saturday, it will give everyone a lift and we'll go on a little run. We'll beat SHA next month and everyone will love him.
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We seem to be regressing as a team now. We've lost that spark and we're not really creating that much. Our results have been pretty bad considering how much we've spent and why do we not yet have a formation that suits us? Why are our substitutions bewildering and arguably a cause of our goal concessions. Its getting very hard to defend RDM.
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We'll beat SHA next month and everyone will love him.
Hope you're right. If we think that trying to hold a lead against teams like Barnsley is a problem though, imagine us away at Blues, 1 nil up, 10 minutes left, team buckling under the pressure, Blues fans howling....... That's when we need a good manager and some leaders on the pitch
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He's under pressure and rightly so, but I don't think sacking him so soon is the answer. I've accepted that this is a season of trying to sort ourselves out more than anything, and we certainly won't be coming back up at the first time of asking.
Also I can't think of anyone we could realistically get who would be better, and we'd have to get rid of backroom staff etc. We've done all of that before and it didn't work, so as annoying as it is to keep shipping late goals against teams of cloggers, I think we're just going to have to live with it for the time being.
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I've cooled down after last night when I felt he had to beat Preston to keep his job. I think he gets October to prove himself, 5 games. However if results have been really poor in the first 4, he has to go before Blues and we get someone in to get a reaction for that game.
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Whichever way you look at it whoever the manager is one win in eleven gives the club owner at any club ample proof that he should make a change.
Indeed. It's time Tony held his hands up & admitted his mistake employing this practitioner of quackery. With any luck, the owner will have already got hold of somebody(s) associated with our club who's got a clue about the game: who can come up with a short list of managers who know how to organise & motivate players - and who have a hunger to bring success to this once-great footballing institution. Currently, Dr X's glorious 5-year-plan of global domination seems a tad over-ambitious...
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I have never seriously considered fat Sam as our manager, but he would get us out of this division in my opinion. That's a start. lets get promoted before we worry about winning things and how he won't progress us in the prem. He can get us up and get us stable, then is the time to look to kick on.
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I've cooled down after last night when I felt he had to beat Preston to keep his job. I think he gets October to prove himself, 5 games. However if results have been really poor in the first 4, he has to go before Blues and we get someone in to get a reaction for that game.
I'm still in the fail to beat Preston and change him camp. Beat Preston and he gets the 5 games before the next international break to get 10 points from those otherwise make the change then.
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I've cooled down after last night when I felt he had to beat Preston to keep his job. I think he gets October to prove himself, 5 games. However if results have been really poor in the first 4, he has to go before Blues and we get someone in to get a reaction for that game.
[/quotI've cooled down after last night when I felt he had to beat Preston to keep his job. I think he gets October to prove himself, 5 games. However if results have been really poor in the first 4, he has to go before Blues and we get someone in to get a reaction for that game.
Imagine the fun and games if it were Rowett.
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The next 5 games are:
Preston (a)
Wolves (h)
Reading (a)
Fulham (h)
SHA (a)
People saying give him 15 games are really taking a gamble. At the present rate we will be 11 points off the play offs by the time we concede a late equalizer/winner on October 30th.
At the moment we probably have just about enough time left to squeak the play offs, but we have to act now.
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Although we have clearly not been able to overcome the jittery, fearful part of the game that has become ingrained after 5 years of struggle, cries of "sack him" do sound a bit like panic stricken cries of "do something" in a burning house or on a sinking ship. What does "do something" look like? Sacking RDM now means another complete overhaul and the new management team starting from scratch understanding which players fit where, from Agbonlahor to the newest recruit.
Crying "do something" or "sack him" should be accompanied by a clear idea of what to do next if they are to have any credibility.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
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I was not behind RDM's appointment - but the combo with Steve Clarke makes the pairing good enough.
Instability has wrecked our club's fortunes over the past few years. RDM should be given the season, short of a relegation battle, to show what he can do.
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If we keep sacking managers, decent managers are not going to want to join us in the future. I think the team are struggling with confidence at the moment. I would lIke him to have the season..but obviously if we are hovering around the bottom 3 in the New Year a decision may need to be made.
Just a thought..during Ron Saunders promotion winning season in 74/75 wasn't we in the bottom half at the turn of the year?
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Decent managers have't been joining us for the past 7 seasons.
Edit: I see we're now referencing one of greatest managers and his epic achievements as the straw to clutch at, seeing as we cannot mention Taylor any longer.
Look at the facts; the same problem every other game. Why is the manager suddenly going to develop tactical know how in the next few weeks?
I want him to succeed, but experience tells me that if will not.
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Decent managers have't been joining us for the past 7 seasons.
Edit: I see we're now referencing one of greatest managers and his epic achievements as the straw to clutch at, seeing as we cannot mention Taylor any longer.
Look at the facts; the same problem every other game. Why is the manager suddenly going to develop tactical know how in the next few weeks?
I want him to succeed, but experience tells me that if will not.
I wasn't clutching at straws Ads..I was merely making a observation.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
This.
It's all a bit Sherwood.
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I was not behind RDM's appointment - but the combo with Steve Clarke makes the pairing good enough.
Instability has wrecked our club's fortunes over the past few years. RDM should be given the season, short of a relegation battle, to show what he can do.
Spot on all this tinkering especially the full backs has unsettled us.
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Decent managers have't been joining us for the past 7 seasons.
Edit: I see we're now referencing one of greatest managers and his epic achievements as the straw to clutch at, seeing as we cannot mention Taylor any longer.
Look at the facts; the same problem every other game. Why is the manager suddenly going to develop tactical know how in the next few weeks?
I want him to succeed, but experience tells me that if will not.
I wasn't clutching at straws Ads..I was merely making a observation.
Its only relevant though if RDM is as good as Saunders and he plainly is nowhere near that level.
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I really don't know what to think.
On the one hand I really do not want to see another Manager go and September seems ridiculously early to be rocking the boat again. On the other, the same thing happening repeatedly is clearly down to us doing something wrong rather than simply rotten luck and we are already getting worryingly adrift of where we want and need to be.
I just want it all to go away. Somebody make it stop, please.
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does anyone have any kind of rational explanation as to why, under so many different managers, coaches, specialist coaches, fitness staff, players, tactics and formations, not to mention tens of millions of pounds spent, we have been shit for six years?
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Not sure. We were in the same position this time last season and we were slow to respond ending disastrously. On the other hand if we sack the manager, his staff will probably go too and we are back to the same position we seem to have been in for the past few years. Then there is his replacement, who? I think we need stability on the coaching side and playing staff. I have seen some improvement this season and expect it will grow as manager and team settle. So I am in favour of a review at the end of season, unless relegation is a possibility (which I doubt). This may mean that we stay in this division for another year, but continually swapping and changing in my opinion doesn't work.
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How the hell did he win the champions league.
Baffling tactics.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
This.
It's all a bit Sherwood.
I don't agree with this to be honest. He hasn't changed it from 5 to 4 at the back week in week out at all, he's played 5 at the back twice in ten games, it's hardly every week, although at home it wasn't necessary. As for the formations, he's tried different things like most managers would. As for Bacuna comment, he's mainly played either right back or right midfield this season, So I don't get that either.
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How the hell did he win the champions league.
Baffling tactics.
By letting a settled team that knew what it was doing do its thing? I don't know, but I haven't the confidence that he can build a team from scratch, certainly not in a few months. We're all over the place.
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Yep. He is starting from scratch here but Chelsea was just to keep things going.
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It is pretty much a completely new team which by and large are an improvement on last season but who still need time to gel to get the best out of them. That said, we should be doing much better than we are which is down to a number of factors, the main one could just be bad luck. However, we do have a richness of attacking talent for this league which we fail to exploit for long periods in quite a few games now and that has to be tactics or formation. So, RDM and his team are culpable in that department as we should have at least double the amount of goals as we have now.
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He's shaping up to be a disaster. A really scattergun approach to transfers, where we've spent lots on attacking players, but have gambled on young, unproven players in Gollini and Tshibola to fill key weak areas. Elphick is as bad a defensive signing as we've made in years.
Then he seemingly has no idea of his preferred system, either when starting matches or reacting to in-game events. Players have been played all over the shop, and look as confused as the fans. It really isn't good enough, and it's the old, boring story of hoping that Villa take 30 minutes of good play into other games, but never do.
Very, very poor indeed. He needs the chop.
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Morning Nik. I called out Elphick for what he is, shit, during the Brentford game and some people around me didn't like it. But he is however both him and Jedinak were signed by RDM.
Evening mate, yes, I agree on Elphick. A bit of a disappointment. I thought he'd be better. Needs to step up. I do like most of the signings, though. Kodjia in particular.
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How the hell did he win the champions league.
Baffling tactics.
By letting a settled team that knew what it was doing do its thing? I don't know, but I haven't the confidence that he can build a team from scratch, certainly not in a few months. We're all over the place.
There was much talk at the time that John Terry was calling the shots and giving the team talks.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
This.
It's all a bit Sherwood.
I don't agree with this to be honest. He hasn't changed it from 5 to 4 at the back week in week out at all, he's played 5 at the back twice in ten games, it's hardly every week, although at home it wasn't necessary. As for the formations, he's tried different things like most managers would. As for Bacuna comment, he's mainly played either right back or right midfield this season, So I don't get that either.
So you dont agree by agreeing with me? He has had a long preseason and supposedly bought players in to suit a formation/style of play and yet 10 games in has already played 442, 352, 343 and 351. You dont think that is ridiculous? how can we possibly get any cohesion?
As well as RM and FB, Bacuna has also played RWB and and Right sided wide attacker, so in 8 games he has had 4 different roles covering defence, midfield, attack and attacking defender. We will not progress whilst he keeps trying to stumble upon a magic formula - like cd said, it reminds me of sherwood and his formation dartboard again. I watched Jurgen Klopp on MNF saying how he wouldnt experiment with something like that (3/4/5 at the back) as it is too fundamental a change to try and implement during a season.
Not saying that injuries and opposition shouldnt dictate minor tweaking (Cissokho and Amavi with defensive and offensive traits is a great example) but like i said, imo this is why he is failing
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He's shaping up to be a disaster. A really scattergun approach to transfers, where we've spent lots on attacking players, but have gambled on young, unproven players in Gollini and Tshibola to fill key weak areas. Elphick is as bad a defensive signing as we've made in years.
Then he seemingly has no idea of his preferred system, either when starting matches or reacting to in-game events. Players have been played all over the shop, and look as confused as the fans. It really isn't good enough, and it's the old, boring story of hoping that Villa take 30 minutes of good play into other games, but never do.
Very, very poor indeed. He needs the chop.
What I have seen in Tshibola so far, I think he is an excellent signing as long as he stays fit. I agree with you on Gollini though.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
This.
It's all a bit Sherwood.
I don't agree with this to be honest. He hasn't changed it from 5 to 4 at the back week in week out at all, he's played 5 at the back twice in ten games, it's hardly every week, although at home it wasn't necessary. As for the formations, he's tried different things like most managers would. As for Bacuna comment, he's mainly played either right back or right midfield this season, So I don't get that either.
So you dont agree by agreeing with me? He has had a long preseason and supposedly bought players in to suit a formation/style of play and yet 10 games in has already played 442, 352, 343 and 351. You dont think that is ridiculous? how can we possibly get any cohesion?
As well as RM and FB, Bacuna has also played RWB and and Right sided wide attacker, so in 8 games he has had 4 different roles covering defence, midfield, attack and attacking defender. We will not progress whilst he keeps trying to stumble upon a magic formula - like cd said, it reminds me of sherwood and his formation dartboard again. I watched Jurgen Klopp on MNF saying how he wouldnt experiment with something like that (3/4/5 at the back) as it is too fundamental a change to try and implement during a season.
Not saying that injuries and opposition shouldnt dictate minor tweaking (Cissokho and Amavi with defensive and offensive traits is a great example) but like i said, imo this is why he is failing
I haven't got too much of a problem with him trying different formations to see if something clicks. Managers do stumble across systems that they hadn't originally planned which have ended up working. Besides, people were saying we were playing too many strikers, then it was not enough midfielders and some did suggest going 5 at the back before he did away at Ipswich and that was wrong as well.
As for Bacuna, the way you said that he ends up on a 'different corner of the pitch' did exaggerate the point a little. He only moved when De Laet came in and he's been one of our better players this season which is why he's not been left out too many times.
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I think we'd be ok playing 5-5-3.
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I want him gone ASAP, nice bloke but not up to the job.
I was really enthusiastic at the start of the season, and think the transfer business overall was good (Got rid of the drek and got proven players in). That squad should be in the top 2-3 all season long. the fact it isn't is down to poor fitness (RDM responsibility), poor tactics (RDM responsibility), poor substitutions (RDM responsibility), and poor motivation (RDM responsibility).
Despite it's weak points (goalkeeper and midfield) I would not swap our squad for any other in the league (even Newcastle), so for it to be doing so badly RDM has to be at fault.
Hughton would be a good shout and him, Warburton or Rowett would be my first choices.
I also agree that Warnock would be a very good manager for us at this level, and would have us right up the league. I heard an interview with him a while back when he left Rotherham, and he is well aware that the Championship is his domain rather than the Premier league so I think we woul have no problem hiring him on a 'get us up and we get someone else in' basis. Bruce is another that would do well but need moving on when up and one that would want to stay, so would avoid him on that basis.
If Eddie Howe would do what Taylor did (leave a small over-performing top flight club for a much bigger job a divison down at the Villa) then he is another I would like to see rock up at Villa park.
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Definitely deserves 15 games, but he doesn't need to win all 5 to be kept for me. If things are looking up after 15 that's fine by me. I've gone into this season thinking play offs are the achievable aim, and as it stands i think we're currently 5 off them without ever looking like we're going to get battered by anyone.
Yes, some of his decisions have baffled me, and continue to do so. But if he's getting flak then so must the players who aren't doing their jobs either. Two stand out examples being the so called 'leaders' Elphick and Jedinak. If those pair played anywhere near to what their capble of it'd be a start and i'm not blaming RDM for their lack of quality.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
This.
It's all a bit Sherwood.
I don't agree with this to be honest. He hasn't changed it from 5 to 4 at the back week in week out at all, he's played 5 at the back twice in ten games, it's hardly every week, although at home it wasn't necessary. As for the formations, he's tried different things like most managers would. As for Bacuna comment, he's mainly played either right back or right midfield this season, So I don't get that either.
So you dont agree by agreeing with me? He has had a long preseason and supposedly bought players in to suit a formation/style of play and yet 10 games in has already played 442, 352, 343 and 351. You dont think that is ridiculous? how can we possibly get any cohesion?
As well as RM and FB, Bacuna has also played RWB and and Right sided wide attacker, so in 8 games he has had 4 different roles covering defence, midfield, attack and attacking defender. We will not progress whilst he keeps trying to stumble upon a magic formula - like cd said, it reminds me of sherwood and his formation dartboard again. I watched Jurgen Klopp on MNF saying how he wouldnt experiment with something like that (3/4/5 at the back) as it is too fundamental a change to try and implement during a season.
Not saying that injuries and opposition shouldnt dictate minor tweaking (Cissokho and Amavi with defensive and offensive traits is a great example) but like i said, imo this is why he is failing
I haven't got too much of a problem with him trying different formations to see if something clicks. Managers do stumble across systems that they hadn't originally planned which have ended up working. Besides, people were saying we were playing too many strikers, then it was not enough midfielders and some did suggest going 5 at the back before he did away at Ipswich and that was wrong as well.
As for Bacuna, the way you said that he ends up on a 'different corner of the pitch' did exaggerate the point a little. He only moved when De Laet came in and he's been one of our better players this season which is why he's not been left out too many times.
People have different opinions on why things are going well/badly in football which is what makes it so great for debating. But "people" arent being paid handsomly and given multi-millions to get this squad out of this division, RDM, Clarke and their team are. Do you think, after a full preseason and 12 competitive games that he knows his preferred formation and starting line up? I dont think he does and believe thats the reason we're in a pickle. May be wrong, its only my opinion ;)
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Preston is must win or he will be sacked.
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When was the last time we actually won a "must win" match?
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Preston is must win or he will be sacked.
Beginning to think that as well, as timing aspects seem to be falling into line (international break coming up, credible replacements out of work). It would be harsh, but it depends on Xia's mindset really. If promotion this season is the be all and end all, then I don't think he has much time to wait for results to change. If the mutterings over the summer about promotion in two seasons are true, then RDM might be afforded a little more time.
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When was the last time we actually won a "must win" match?
I mean must win for him, agree.
Which means he will be sacked
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i think this Saturday and then home to Wolves will be the two games that decides his fate. another draw and a loss at home and i think he would go.
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I am firmly of the opinion that he doesn't know what he's doing - get rid
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I am firmly of the opinion that he doesn't know what he's doing - get rid
To be fair to RDM, he's never previously had to build a team. All his successes have been based around inheriting a decent side to begin with and that even includes the Bitters. Whether he has the capacity or will be given the time is something Xia must be pondering.
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We have 36 games to get another 75 points- never going to happen, so wave goodbye to even a slim shout of the automatic spots.
We need another 60 points to squeak into 6th, so we need more than 2 points a game which looks massively unlikely as well.
So with the chances of enjoying a second season in this shit heap of a league, its a question of whether we will pick up the necessary points to stay up.On the current ratio, its a maybe.
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The most critical thing for success imo is a settled side and the main reason he has failed. Maybe its all too much too soon and he has too many options but pick a bloody formation and style of play you want and damn well stick to it. Pick your best 11 players in their best positions and back them, even after a bad game. If someone comes on as a sub and does really well or does great in training, they come into your thinking but dont shoe horn them in because someone else had a bad game. 3 or 4 games playing badly and then maybe a spell on the sidelines but how can any of them get momentum built up they way things are?
Jack has played number 10, wing and wide forward. Kodjia has played central striker on his own, part of a two, wide forward and winger. Adomah has only played twice and has played winger and bloody wing back. Dont even get me started on Bacuna who everytime he shows some promise he starts next week on a different corner of the pitch. The defence are going from a back 3 to 4 to 5 week in week out - its ludicrous and will cost him his job if he doesnt stop playing championship manager every week
100% this
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Agree Ads. This season is already a write off as far as promotion is concerned. The issue is very much can we improve enough to avoid back to back relegations.
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Agree Ads. This season is already a write off as far as promotion is concerned. The issue is very much can we improve enough to avoid back to back relegations.
Brian, as a miserable negative old bastard, I rely on the likes of you to be a bit more balanced than me. If you're worried, I'm very worried. The only good thing about going down last year was thinking we wouldn't have another relegation thread this year.
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to a degree this is all academic because sitting in the Holte End on Sunday surveying the shit-fest in front of me for the first 65 minutes of the Newcastle game, I kept looking at people around me who were totally committed to the club no matter what, and realized that as much as I moan my balls off about us, I'd still be watching and worrying if we were playing Plymouth in another Division. Having said that, with the players we have, there is absolutely no excuse not to be in the top six or seven and the reason we are not is down to piss poor management from RDM.
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apologies Saturday!
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Given it's unlikely that RDM is going to suddenly develop a tactical brain, then we will be looking at new manager soon. Can somebody start a poll of new managers?
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We have 36 games to get another 75 points- never going to happen, so wave goodbye to even a slim shout of the automatic spots.
We need another 60 points to squeak into 6th, so we need more than 2 points a game which looks massively unlikely as well.
So with the chances of enjoying a second season in this shit heap of a league, its a question of whether we will pick up the necessary points to stay up.On the current ratio, its a maybe.
Sorry to correct your maths but..
60 / 36 = 1.66 points per game. Sounds a bit more feasible.
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We have 36 games to get another 75 points- never going to happen, so wave goodbye to even a slim shout of the automatic spots.
We need another 60 points to squeak into 6th, so we need more than 2 points a game which looks massively unlikely as well.
So with the chances of enjoying a second season in this shit heap of a league, its a question of whether we will pick up the necessary points to stay up.On the current ratio, its a maybe.
Sorry to correct your maths but..
60 / 36 = 1.66 points per game. Sounds a bit more feasible.
These posts come around as often as Christmas.
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We have 36 games to get another 75 points- never going to happen, so wave goodbye to even a slim shout of the automatic spots.
We need another 60 points to squeak into 6th, so we need more than 2 points a game which looks massively unlikely as well.
So with the chances of enjoying a second season in this shit heap of a league, its a question of whether we will pick up the necessary points to stay up.On the current ratio, its a maybe.
Sorry to correct your maths but..
60 / 36 = 1.66 points per game. Sounds a bit more feasible.
These posts come around as often as Christmas.
Stop being a Turkey or I'll give your ears a good boxing.
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Sorry Mike but I am trying to offer balance and a form of optimism. The utterly unthinkable would be another spell in the third division. It was unbelievably shit last time regardless how people like me say it was unforgettable and thrilling. When you are in a slide like we are now you have to forget all about winning shitloads of games and concentrate on winning some of them. The first and overwhelming priority of the players, the manager and the coaches should be on not being dragged into a relegation dog fight. Given our start, I consider a top half finish will enable us to have a better next season. We dithered and twatted about with Sherwood and Garde when we should have been scrapping for our Premiership survival. I don't want the same "let's see who can spit our chewing gum the furthest" mentality to put us into the third division.
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I'm torn on RDM. On the one hand you could look at it as at least he's stopped us losing (mostly) , which could be a first step to getting us winning again. But that may come too late for us to be contesting the promotion places if it doesn't start soon. There's been a massive turnover of players and it does take time to settle and gel. And we've had some misfortune with injuries and hitting the woodwork more often than a tree-feller.
On the other hand you see the same mistakes made repeatedly, the imbalance in the transfers in, and the tactical indecisiveness and errors. He was praised for bringing in a spine to the team but Gollini is young, error-prone and gauche, Elphick looks poor in both playing and leadership, Tshibola is good but young and has been injury prone, and Jedinak looks awful so far. Chester hasn't really impressed that much either. At the end of the window I thought we were short of 2 more midfielders, another CB and an experienced solid keeper. Spending 50m and still having such an imbalanced squad so reliant on fairly mediocre players in key positions does not reflect all that well on him. And the fact that the standard of football in this division is hardly stellar doesn't make his record look any better.
It could simply be down to confidence, which could change with a decent win. I can't help feeling if we could just win one comfortably against a better team than Rotherham, the confidence might come back. But RDM had better make it quick.
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Given RDM is on the edge, who to replace him?
I recall Pearson and Moyes being very favoured before RDM was appointed and they have shown their credentials as being no better to manage the Villa.
Some of the younger Championship managers have already shown more nous than RDM when we've played their teams, so perhaps now we're out the Premiership we can look at one of these.
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I'd wait until xmas and if we're not top half let him go.
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I just wish Dr. Tony's Mondeo broke down before he reached the Eurostar.
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We have 36 games to get another 75 points- never going to happen, so wave goodbye to even a slim shout of the automatic spots.
We need another 60 points to squeak into 6th, so we need more than 2 points a game which looks massively unlikely as well.
So with the chances of enjoying a second season in this shit heap of a league, its a question of whether we will pick up the necessary points to stay up.On the current ratio, its a maybe.
If we need another 60 points from 36 games for the play offs then how is that more than 2 points per game? Unless I've missed something?
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I did based off 30 games by mistake.
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Gary Rowett would be my choice. He's made the noses look like a decent side. He'd be brilliant here if the fans got behind him.
Dean Smith would be my second choice. His Brentford side are doing well and they played some good football against us.
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A replacement would be tricky and we seem to adept at picking the wrong'uns. Let's not forget Lambert did pretty well at this level but soon showed he was shite, and RDM has done well too. For all the frustration with RDM I'm massively glad we avoided Moyes (pep talk to Sunderland fans - we should expect another relegation fight) or Pearson who appears to have several screws loose. There's nothing to suggest the likes of Rowett or Smith would be any better for us than Lambert or RDM.
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Basically for me now it's win on Saturday and he has a bit more time, if we don't win he goes. I'd be ok keeping him if we were getting better, but we're not. We make the same mistakes in most games. We take the lead after having, at most, a good 45 minutes in a game, then we miss a load of chances and then sit back before inevitably conceding in the last 5 mins. It's just not good enough.
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Putting Rudy on last night, when 1 nil up, was tactically inept.
I do wonder what Clarke's role is ... he's been there too, has a few T shirts ... that 'team' SHOULD do far better.
I believe that we have the squad to get out of this league; however, how long Dr X gives him will be interesting.
Then, of course - IF he is moved on, who on earth do we go to ... ? Can't see Rowell coming from the Sty.
Steve Bruce may be a decent bet.
Let's see ...
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A replacement would be tricky and we seem to adept at picking the wrong'uns. Let's not forget Lambert did pretty well at this level but soon showed he was shite, and RDM has done well too. For all the frustration with RDM I'm massively glad we avoided Moyes (pep talk to Sunderland fans - we should expect another relegation fight) or Pearson who appears to have several screws loose. There's nothing to suggest the likes of Rowett or Smith would be any better for us than Lambert or RDM.
Thanks for nominating me ktvillan, but I'm retired now and think I would find the job a bit too demanding.
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Bored so here are the points totals for the sides finishing 2nd and 6th going back 15 seasons.
89/74
89/78
93/72
79/68
88/75
84/75
91/70
83/74
79/70
86/75
90/75
87/73
86/73
92/74
89/75
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Bored so here are the points totals for the sides finishing 2nd and 6th going back 15 seasons.
89/74
89/78
93/72
79/68
88/75
84/75
91/70
83/74
79/70
86/75
90/75
87/73
86/73
92/74
89/75
So we need 65 points in 36 games?
Ha, yeah right. Maybe next year guys.
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A couple of further morale sapping results and I'd be begging Dr.X to pull the plug, but my worry is that there is no obvious alternative available that we can have confidence will immediately improve our fortunes*
*Apart the handstand in my hallway and the empty crisp packet that scuttled past me this morning.
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his coming across like a wet lettuce,
I don't want pearce though
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Someone explain what Clarke does to me ? and Bond for that matter
The former looks like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world whenever you see him on the bench. Maybe it's the coaching staff that need refreshing
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The only other team in the division to have won only one game, is the only team we've beaten. That's pretty damning.
Personally, I think he should be given to Christmas, simply because I think changing a manager this soon is crazy if you're not in danger of being relegated, and I don't want us to be *that* club. The points tally is crap, obviously, and the late capitulations absolutely infuriating, but we *have* been in winning positions more often than I've seen us in a few seasons, which is progress. Not enough progress, admittedly, but progress nonetheless.
We need to improve, clearly, but I'm also still conscious it's an almost entirely new team getting used to each other - I'd hoped it would happen more quickly, but I don't think it's unreasonable for that to take a dozen games or more.
If we're still lingering not too far above the relegation zone by Christmas, get rid, there's nothing to lose by that point. But if we're somewhere around the top 10, and no more than a game or two outside the play-offs (and showing some improved form), then I think you've got to give him the season. It's only 6 years since he got the Yam Yams promoted automatically, so clearly he's got something about him in this division.
So, patience running out, but I think it's still too soon to sack him.
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Xmas for me but I don't think he'll get that long. If the results aren't there then it's simple to pull each and everything apart which is fair game at present. He needs both a performance and win at the weekend. Frustrating because although we're not getting the results, we are close. Front guys aren't doing enough for me.
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He's got the Preston game for me. No win, and he goes.
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We'll beat SHA next month and everyone will love him.
DOL beat them and we didn't love him. So fickle !
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We'll beat SHA next month and everyone will love him.
DOL beat them and we didn't love him. So fickle !
I just know Gollini is going to drop a clanger against them
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We'll beat SHA next month and everyone will love him.
DOL beat them and we didn't love him. So fickle !
I just know Gollini is going to drop a clanger against them
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3569/3331232258_8b69070f84_b.jpg)
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I posted a couple of days ago about different event horizons.
Well it looks like automatic promotion has dissappeared over the horizon already, unless we can mount some sort of 30 game unbeaten streak, winning 75% of them and play-offs is starting to look challeninging.
We might alreday be in that place where as long as there's no danger of going down, we're just seeing out the season already, in terms of acheiving anything.
It's not the 1 win in 10 that's pissing me off, it's the same fucking brain dead mistakes, game after game and have the EFL brought in a new rule that you have to start a game with the formation and tactics that finished teh last one? There's no way he needed to start with that line up on Tuesday. It's either laziness, stupidity or both.
Either bin him now or wake me up in May when you can tell me we finished 12th.
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And yet nearly all of us were happy with that starting 11.
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Sorry, me getting my rants mixed up. Saturdays's 532 being a conutinuation of how we'd finished the previous game out of necessity.
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Yep I'm not convinced it's really personnel as much as it is mentality.
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Sorry, me getting my rants mixed up. Saturdays's 532 being a conutinuation of how we'd finished the previous game out of necessity.
Got ya.
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It's difficult. I appreciate that RDM has done well to get rid of so much shit. On the other hand, I don't get this last ten minutes thing. Is it fitness? Mentality? One thing I do know is that our midfield is bollocks. Perm any two from none.
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So we probably need to win 16/17 games of the 36 remaining to make the playoffs at least as no doubt we'll also pick up draws along the way. The next 5 games will be pretty crucial then I think so I'd agree with others that it's win or bust on Saturday for RDM. If we don't win at Deepdale it gives us 2 weeks to sort out a new management team and give them a good crack at saving the season.
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I'd wait until xmas and if we're not top half let him go.
I'm with ez. Probably. Sounds reasonable, actually I'd give RDM longer, but it would help if we could win the odd one or two or five, between now and Xmas.
After then, I would expect wins every 2 - 3 games, of course.
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Why wait until Christmas? If he continues to fail in the meantime, any chance of even a play off place may well be beyond us.
Make the move early and at least we keep our options open.
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I don't understand the procrastination argument - isn't it the definition of madness to continue to do the same thing and expect a different outcome? There is nothing to suggest RDM is suddenly going to become a different type of manager between now and Christmas - i.e. a winning one.
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You could say that sacking the manager is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.
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Agreed but sooner or later we have to get one right! It is amazing that our decision making on managerial appointments has ranged from the bizarre to the inexplicable in recent times.
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All this talk of missing out on automatic promotion or even the playoffs is a bit melodramatic. I'd agree that I don't think we'll do it under RDM, but we're only 10pts and 7pts behind each of those targets so 4 or 5 consecutive wins will put us right in the mix. I think it will take a managerial change, but don't right off the season or promotion just yet.
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i just find it baffling that rdm, clarke and bond are all having an input and we still for the most part look like a sack of shit
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Ive gone for option 2, but I'd give him til Christmas in reality. If there is significant improvement between now and then, I'd back him with a bit of cash to strengthen in Jan and then see how we go to the end of the season. I thought we may take longer than one season to go up, based on the massive overhaul required after the combined last 5 years' cluster-fuck.
If we make the playoffs or get very close, then I think Dr X, then has a decision to make as to whether he sticks or twists. But given the outlay we've made this summer, he has to get until Christmas at least. If they can just work out a way to tighten up when we're ahead and close out games, we'll progress.
Just not not sure whether Dr X will have the patience though.
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The proposition that we "only" need five or six consecutive wins flies in the face of all accepted laws of probability. If you have a horse that has run ten times and fallen at the last fence when in the lead five times, the odds of your horse suddenly jumping to victory faultlessly are hugely against and massively on more falls. The form book does not lie, nor does the league table.
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i just find it baffling that rdm, clarke and bond are all having an input and we still for the most part look like a sack of shit
I wonder what their relationship is like? A manager and 2 respected coaches with an expensively assembled squad in a relatively poor league and we're still chucking games away by conceding late goal after late goal. Has anyone noticed any real improvement? Who is making the tactical decisions here? Closing a game down, it's coachable but we're no better at it now than since the first game against Wednesday and I don't accept that it's something that requires more than 10 games to sort out. We might as well still have Lambert or any of the other shit managers we've had since.
And if I hear the word "gel" one more time......
It's unacceptable and we need to start winning in October or he can shit off.
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Too soon. Not before the end of November. He has the makings of a team that need to build confidence and could start winning well. If nothing changes then before Christmas is about the right time but we will probably have chalked off this season by then anyway.
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The proposition that we "only" need five or six consecutive wins flies in the face of all accepted laws of probability. If you have a horse that has run ten times and fallen at the last fence when in the lead five times, the odds of your horse suddenly jumping to victory faultlessly are hugely against and massively on more falls. The form book does not lie, nor does the league table.
But the point is, it is possible to go on a winning run at some point. We just need to start doing it sooner rather than later. I suppose you could say there's still another 36 fences to jump.
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Disagree Clampy I'm afraid. There are not 36 fences to jump, there are 36 last fences to jump. We have cast iron form for coping with all the other jumps but not the final ones. Until we address and overcome whatever is causing our failing at the finish the odds remain very heavily stacked in favour of the future being the same as the past.
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The proposition that we "only" need five or six consecutive wins flies in the face of all accepted laws of probability. If you have a horse that has run ten times and fallen at the last fence when in the lead five times, the odds of your horse suddenly jumping to victory faultlessly are hugely against and massively on more falls. The form book does not lie, nor does the league table.
Actually that's not how probability works, you do realise that even if you've rolled 5 sixes with a dice in the past 5 rolls the probability of rolling a 6 when you roll the next time is still 1 in 6?
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All this talk of missing out on automatic promotion or even the playoffs is a bit melodramatic. I'd agree that I don't think we'll do it under RDM, but we're only 10pts and 7pts behind each of those targets so 4 or 5 consecutive wins will put us right in the mix. I think it will take a managerial change, but don't right off the season or promotion just yet.
We might be only 10 or 7 points off the top of the table targets, but we are a lot closer to the bottom three and on current form we look like remaining there unless a couple of wins are obtained. Even with these wins, we still need some of those above us to start dropping points, so my optimism of the play offs is not great at the moment, we need something more positive delivered by the team and manager.
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We are not talking about random probability, we are talking about form. Our form shows that we lose a disproportionately larger number of games at the death than would be statistically expected without cause or influence. Until we identify and correct the cause of the aberration it is more likely to continue than to cease.
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For me it's not so much losing them at the death that's cost us, it's not having the game won before then, which in most games this season we should have done.
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We are not talking about random probability, we are talking about form. Our form shows that we lose a disproportionately larger number of games at the death than would be statistically expected without cause or influence. Until we identify and correct the cause of the aberration it is more likely to continue than to cease.
No probability is exactly random, it depends on the number of possibilities vs causal factors you take into account. Plus we haven't lost a large number of games at the death, this season we've lost 2 games in the league, one (Bristol City) was lost way before the 'death', though the other (Sheff Wed) was lost in the 85th minute. Yes we've lost goals in the last 5 - 10 minutes of games far too much, ending up with a lot of draws rather than wins, which may make it feel like a loss, but lets be accurate about this.
The likelihood is, there is no single causal factor, missed chances not closing out games earlier on, defensive lapses, psychology, tactics and so on, another big factor is probably that of the psychology of other teams, who have seen this trend appearing and so it gives them the belief to push on for an equaliser or winner against us near the end.
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We are not talking about random probability, we are talking about form. Our form shows that we lose a disproportionately larger number of games at the death than would be statistically expected without cause or influence. Until we identify and correct the cause of the aberration it is more likely to continue than to cease.
Draw rather than lose, surely.
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We are not talking about random probability, we are talking about form. Our form shows that we lose a disproportionately larger number of games at the death than would be statistically expected without cause or influence. Until we identify and correct the cause of the aberration it is more likely to continue than to cease.
No probability is exactly random, it depends on the number of possibilities vs causal factors you take into account. Plus we haven't lost a large number of games at the death, this season we've lost 2 games in the league, one (Bristol City) was lost way before the 'death', though the other (Sheff Wed) was lost in the 85th minute. Yes we've lost goals in the last 5 - 10 minutes of games far too much, ending up with a lot of draws rather than wins, which may make it feel like a loss, but lets be accurate about this.
The likelihood is, there is no single causal factor, missed chances not closing out games earlier on, defensive lapses, psychology, tactics and so on, another big factor is probably that of the psychology of other teams, who have seen this trend appearing and so it gives them the belief to push on for an equaliser or winner against us near the end.
Maths 101.
Probability isn't random.
This is a standard distribution of results.
(http://www.statisticshowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/normal-distribution-probability.jpg)
the x axis is the number of games where points are thrown away in the last 10 minutes and the y axis is the number of teams throwing those points away, a random event would expect a result somewhere close to the centre line.
Ours is so far to the right, i.e. not many teams throwing loads of games, it's almost off the scale and if you can be bothered pissing about with processing all the data and all the standard deviation calculations I reckon you'd come up with a >99% statistical certainty of a causal effect.
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I think we probably need to accept that the previous owner left us in such an unholy mess that this rebuilding job will take at least two seasons rather than one.
In other words, forget promotion and playoffs. Forget them completely. Concentrate on each game as it comes and see where it sets us up for next season. Try not to get too frustrated when the likes of Newcastle and Norwich are getting results. We were in much, much worse shape than them and it's clearly not an overnight job putting it right.
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And yet nearly all of us were happy with that starting 11.
I wasn't mate. Midfield was/is far too lightweight.
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If you throw dice the laws of probability dictate that each number from one to six will arise one sixth of the time provided a large enough number of chances form the sample.
If you go dog racing and there are six dogs each in a trap from one to six, over a sufficiently long sample traps three and four never win as many races as trap one or trap six. That is because extraneous factors such as railing and wide running come into play. Different greyhounds lead with a different leg making them wide runners or railers. Extrapolating a dog's racing habits enables you to take such factors into account. That is form. The fall of dice is not affected by previous events unless of course the dice are loaded and that is an entirely different debate.
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And yet nearly all of us were happy with that starting 11.
I wasn't mate. Midfield was/is far too lightweight.
what midfield would you pick out of interest ?
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And yet nearly all of us were happy with that starting 11.
I wasn't mate. Midfield was/is far too lightweight.
what midfield would you pick out of interest ?
cowans platt mortimer
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I think we probably need to accept that the previous owner left us in such an unholy mess that this rebuilding job will take at least two seasons rather than one..
I'm probably being thick here but what I don't understand is that, if we have completely new owners, manager, coaches and pretty much a new first team, what influence can the previous owner/regime/manage/ squad have over the situation we're in at the moment. If we were playing well at the moment would we be crediting Lerner/Garde/Lescott etc?
We've overhauled the club completely so surely the blame for our situation lies with what we are doing wrong at the moment? I'll be honest, it sounds a bit like a convenient excuse. What has the last 5 years got to do with us chucking the ball into the back of our own net in the last 5 minutes of every game?
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I think we probably need to accept that the previous owner left us in such an unholy mess that this rebuilding job will take at least two seasons rather than one..
I'm probably being thick here but what I don't understand is that, if we have completely new owners, manager, coaches and pretty much a new first team, what influence can the previous owner/regime/manage/ squad have over the situation we're in at the moment. If we were playing well at the moment would we be crediting Lerner/Garde/Lescott etc?
We've overhauled the club completely so surely the blame for our situation lies with what we are doing wrong at the moment? I'll be honest, it sounds a bit like a convenient excuse. What has the last 5 years got to do with us chucking the ball into the back of our own net in the last 5 minutes of every game?
We're almost rebuilding from scratch in every department, so even if you're spending a lot of money on it, it's going to take some time to put right. RDM himself likened it to pulling down and rebuilding a house. It doesn't happen overnight.
I made the point elsewhere, that we're not only battling our own psychological issues, we're fighting against the psychological outlook of every team that thinks we're weak, bottlers, pushovers who will concede if you put them under enough pressure.
The crowd thinks it as well. I was at the Brentford game and the tension was palpable in the last 30 mins, as if everybody knew what was coming, and of course it did. It'll take a few wins to rid the place of that, and then hopefully we can crack on, as teams learn we're not the pushovers we used to be. A lot of games are won and lost - and drawn - in players' heads.
I do wonder, however, about RDM's ability to put the pieces together, but on reflection I think if we don't give him that chance, we'll be setting ourselves back to square one without ever knowing if he could turn it around. Maybe until Christmas is fair as long as we don't go on a losing spree and enter the relegation places?
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I think we probably need to accept that the previous owner left us in such an unholy mess that this rebuilding job will take at least two seasons rather than one..
I'm probably being thick here but what I don't understand is that, if we have completely new owners, manager, coaches and pretty much a new first team, what influence can the previous owner/regime/manage/ squad have over the situation we're in at the moment. If we were playing well at the moment would we be crediting Lerner/Garde/Lescott etc?
We've overhauled the club completely so surely the blame for our situation lies with what we are doing wrong at the moment? I'll be honest, it sounds a bit like a convenient excuse. What has the last 5 years got to do with us chucking the ball into the back of our own net in the last 5 minutes of every game?
We're almost rebuilding from scratch in every department, so even if you're spending a lot of money on it, it's going to take some time to put right. RDM himself likened it to pulling down and rebuilding a house. It doesn't happen overnight.
I made the point elsewhere, that we're not only battling our own psychological issues, we're fighting against the psychological outlook of every team that thinks we're weak, bottlers, pushovers who will concede if you put them under enough pressure.
The crowd thinks it as well. I was at the Brentford game and the tension was palpable in the last 30 mins, as if everybody knew what was coming, and of course it did. It'll take a few wins to rid the place of that, and then hopefully we can crack on, as teams learn we're not the pushovers we used to be. A lot of games are won and lost - and drawn - in players' heads.
I do wonder, however, about RDM's ability to put the pieces together, but on reflection I think if we don't give him that chance, we'll be setting ourselves back to square one without ever knowing if he could turn it around. Maybe until Christmas is fair as long as we don't go on a losing spree and enter the relegation places?
I think I understand - but the whole "shitting our pants in the last 10 minutes" thing is something RDM created, not something he inherited. Would this current team be any worse if it was being managed by Garde or Lambert? I'm not sure.
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To be fair, I can remember us squandering leads in the dying minutes of games for years, even before TPL. It seems a very Villa problem. But not quite on this level, I agree. I think we've got a reputation as bottlers, everyone knows we crack in the dying minutes, and it's really hurting us in this division. Whereas in the PL we were already beaten by half time.
It's certainly RDM's problem, but as I say, he's still in the process of building a team with the necessary shape and stability to let our £xxmillions strikeforce score enough to put games out of reach. The jury's still out on whether he can do that, but I suspect he might need a little more time. The worry is, if we change now, who is going to come in, and what happens if his team doesn't gel in 11 games?
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I'd be more concerned if we were two goals up and squandering leads. One goal is never enough, not in any game no matter what league you are in.
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We conceded 12 last season in the last 5 mins, although a fair few were just add on goals as we were already losing.
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We conceded 12 last season in the last 5 mins, although a fair few were just add on goals as we were already losing.
And losing quite heavily too.
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So last season we didn't have the habit that we have this season of throwing games away in the last few minutes? We were so shit that we'd given up the ghost in the first half.
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Last season we were just shit full stop.
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RDM has to stop shoe-horning players into the starting line up just because they are ‘good’/expensive players and get back to basics and actually put out a TEAM on the pitch.
That means ALL the players working for and with each other, not exactly rocket science!
Therefore the team I suggest is:
Gollini
Hutton Chester Baker Cissokho
Adomah Jedinak Tshibola Amavi
McCormack
Kodjia
That is a basic 4-4-2 with McCormack dropping off Kodjia. It is a functional side with no airs and graces and players willing to graft in defending and attacking. Ayew on the bench will perhaps help to focus his mind on the team aspect of football and could certainly be an impact sub along with Grealish and Gestede. I would also like to see Lyden on the bench as he needs the experience of being around the first team again. Another thing when the opposition get a corner Kodjia does NOT come back but stays on the halfway line, lets have an outlet for a quick counter attack!
Gollini has to play because we have no viable alternative, good planning!
Elphick has been pretty dreadful the last couple of games and needs a rest, especially as Baker is probably our best out and out defender, although prone to injury and getting himself booked.
Hutton plays because of Bacuna's suspension.
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Who would we have to replace him?
Fat sam? His head will be all over the place, and his football is awful.
Bruce? The fans would never take to him.
Seen some on Twitter saying Sherwood. Eh?
Stick with RDM, the results will come. It's only been 10 games, yes we should obviously have more points but it was always going to be a big rebuilding job. It's not just the personnel but the mindset of everyone at the club needs to changing to a winning mentality. The positive for me is we aren't losing at the moment and apart from Newcastle we haven't really looked like losing any of the drawn games. Lapses in concentration and mistakes have cost us, cut those out and we will be winning games. Win one or two and confidence will come and mistakes will be less likely.
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RDM has to stop shoe-horning players into the starting line up just because they are ‘good’/expensive players and get back to basics and actually put out a TEAM on the pitch.
That means ALL the players working for and with each other, not exactly rocket science!
Therefore the team I suggest is:
Gollini
Hutton Chester Baker Cissokho
Adomah Jedinak Tshibola Amavi
McCormack
Kodjia
That is a basic 4-4-2 with McCormack dropping off Kodjia. It is a functional side with no airs and graces and players willing to graft in defending and attacking. Ayew on the bench will perhaps help to focus his mind on the team aspect of football and could certainly be an impact sub along with Grealish and Gestede. I would also like to see Lyden on the bench as he needs the experience of being around the first team again. Another thing when the opposition get a corner Kodjia does NOT come back but stays on the halfway line, lets have an outlet for a quick counter attack!
Gollini has to play because we have no viable alternative, good planning!
Elphick has been pretty dreadful the last couple of games and needs a rest, especially as Baker is probably our best out and out defender, although prone to injury and getting himself booked.
Hutton plays because of Bacuna's suspension.
I'm all for a McCormack/Kodjia pairing up top
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RDM has to stop shoe-horning players into the starting line up just because they are ‘good’/expensive players and get back to basics and actually put out a TEAM on the pitch.
That means ALL the players working for and with each other, not exactly rocket science!
Therefore the team I suggest is:
Gollini
Hutton Chester Baker Cissokho
Adomah Jedinak Tshibola Amavi
McCormack
Kodjia
That is a basic 4-4-2 with McCormack dropping off Kodjia. It is a functional side with no airs and graces and players willing to graft in defending and attacking. Ayew on the bench will perhaps help to focus his mind on the team aspect of football and could certainly be an impact sub along with Grealish and Gestede. I would also like to see Lyden on the bench as he needs the experience of being around the first team again. Another thing when the opposition get a corner Kodjia does NOT come back but stays on the halfway line, lets have an outlet for a quick counter attack!
Gollini has to play because we have no viable alternative, good planning!
Elphick has been pretty dreadful the last couple of games and needs a rest, especially as Baker is probably our best out and out defender, although prone to injury and getting himself booked.
Hutton plays because of Bacuna's suspension.
Pretty much how I would go as well apart from I would have Ayew left wing, maybe pushing Amavi to left back but I'm happy with either him or Cissokho back there. I'd make it more of a 4-2-3-1 at home as well.
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What bothers me is that a few weeks back we were creating a massive amount of chances, taking the lead and squandering it late because the manager didn't know how to close up shop. Then we show up at Ipswich, different system and create practically no chances and don't concede. Why was it not possible to just keep doing what we were doing earlier, hopefully become more clinicl but tactically just aware enough to make those late changes to see out games? Why has our approach changed so dramatically?
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What bothers me is that a few weeks back we were creating a massive amount of chances, taking the lead and squandering it late because the manager didn't know how to close up shop. Then we show up at Ipswich, different system and create practically no chances and don't concede. Why was it not possible to just keep doing what we were doing earlier, hopefully become more clinicl but tactically just aware enough to make those late changes to see out games? Why has our approach changed so dramatically?
agree,
but is rdm just inept, and bit like tactics tim, been caught out.
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He is inept. Someone on here compared him to Martinez and I think that's about right. Talks a good game but...
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I get aroused by talks of probabilities.
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Well I don't think we have much choice but to give him the full season. We've backed him in the transfer market and we can't keep choping and changing managers at will. If we finish in the bottom half of the table this season and there are no signs of improving then I think it would probably be fair to make the change. Of course if things got really desparate and it looked likely we could go down then I think a change would be needed. But I don't see that happening.
The club is a bloody mess right now and to add to it we maybe damned either way on the manager front. If we stick with RDM things may not improve and could get worse, but likewise we may struggle to attract anyone better at this stage and even if we could that person would be stuck with RDM's players.
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What bothers me is that a few weeks back we were creating a massive amount of chances, taking the lead and squandering it late because the manager didn't know how to close up shop. Then we show up at Ipswich, different system and create practically no chances and don't concede. Why was it not possible to just keep doing what we were doing earlier, hopefully become more clinicl but tactically just aware enough to make those late changes to see out games? Why has our approach changed so dramatically?
You have answered your own question. RDM has "bent the stick the other way" to quote Comrade Vlad.
At some point there will be a re-calibration and we must fervently hope that the proverbial stick does not snap like a twig.
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The squad will have had more than enough time to have settled by the festive period. I say he gets until Christmas and if we are not in the top 8 at that point and at least upwardly mobile, looking like a good bet for a play off spot, then it's time to seriously consider changing the Manager. That said, we urgently need to get going and I think he appears just too laid back.
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seriously? if we carry on as we have, by Christmas the season will be a write off ; it's now or never, more than ever.
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I think Christmas is a fair enough timescale. It's not as if we're being thrashed every week.
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agreed but 46 draws are going to put us on course for League 1
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What bothers me is that a few weeks back we were creating a massive amount of chances, taking the lead and squandering it late because the manager didn't know how to close up shop. Then we show up at Ipswich, different system and create practically no chances and don't concede. Why was it not possible to just keep doing what we were doing earlier, hopefully become more clinicl but tactically just aware enough to make those late changes to see out games? Why has our approach changed so dramatically?
I was saying this down the boozer last night. We were awesome against forest and they got very lucky on the day. We need to get back to that style and just put more chances away. The defence won't be under so much pressure then.
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Will still delay judgement till mid-November. Plenty of time to change then if we must. Whether it's luck, composure/confidence or tactics, i feel there's not much in it to change those draws to wins and RDM deserves the time to turn it around
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Plenty of time to change in mid November but by then we will have played 20 games. Change for what reason? If we start to win games in October RDM will be safe. If we continue to lose games this season is a write off and our sights have to be on next season. My view is we either get rid of RDM while this season is salvageable or we keep him.
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There has to be an upward curve in performance and results. We're tailing off at the moment and the games have become disjointed and drab apart from 15-20 minute spells. In line with all the tinkering we've started doing. Pick a formation, have the players drilled in to it.
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Today's the day. Win or go.
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Carry on in the same vein and we will be writing off automatic promotion very soon, if we haven't already.
Another year when our primary objective for the season has been written off before the leaves have dropped.
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Plenty of time to change in mid November but by then we will have played 20 games. Change for what reason? If we start to win games in October RDM will be safe. If we continue to lose games this season is a write off and our sights have to be on next season. My view is we either get rid of RDM while this season is salvageable or we keep him.
I just don't think it is dead in November. We're currently 10 points off 2nd, 7 points off a play-off place, 6 points off where SGT was after 10 games. Surely if we can be that far behind after 10 games, it is salvageable the other way? By mid-November hopefully the results will be on a upturn and those gaps will be smaller, but barring a total disaster we're not going to be much different. I'm certainly not going to throw the towel in with 24 plus games to go
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Sorry Mike but I am trying to offer balance and a form of optimism. The utterly unthinkable would be another spell in the third division. It was unbelievably shit last time regardless how people like me say it was unforgettable and thrilling. When you are in a slide like we are now you have to forget all about winning shitloads of games and concentrate on winning some of them. The first and overwhelming priority of the players, the manager and the coaches should be on not being dragged into a relegation dog fight. Given our start, I consider a top half finish will enable us to have a better next season. We dithered and twatted about with Sherwood and Garde when we should have been scrapping for our Premiership survival. I don't want the same "let's see who can spit our chewing gum the furthest" mentality to put us into the third division.
Well, 2pts off the relegation spots and 10 off play offs. Tough to be optimistic.
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RDM is making Lambert look quite good.
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Those were the days
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RDM is making Lambert look quite good.
you know what, yeah I agree
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I'm getting much less patient as I get older. This division was supposed to get us enjoying football again and so far I hate it just as much as last year. RDM can get to fuck, he makes Sherwood look like Guardiola.
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I just find it remarkable how people who have spent their professional careers in football seem to understand so little about it. Lobbing attackers on without a midfield to supply them will never and has never worked.
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I'm getting much less patient as I get older. This division was supposed to get us enjoying football again and so far I hate it just as much as last year. RDM can get to fuck, he makes Sherwood look like Guardiola.
me too. I don't think many, if any of us truly believed it would be this miraculous turnaround, but given the investment this squad should comfortably be sitting at worst in a play off spot right now. That we are practically in the relegation zone a quarter of the way into the season is beyond a disaster. You're right this was meant to be more enjoyable and it has been everything but.
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I'm getting much less patient as I get older. This division was supposed to get us enjoying football again and so far I hate it just as much as last year. RDM can get to fuck, he makes Sherwood look like Guardiola.
Yes I am there as well.
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I said give him the season for stability. I was wrong. After today he has to go now.
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We're just not very good at appointing managers are we?
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I am shocked that Tony has not sacked him tonight!
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I'm getting much less patient as I get older. This division was supposed to get us enjoying football again and so far I hate it just as much as last year. RDM can get to fuck, he makes Sherwood look like Guardiola.
me too. I don't think many, if any of us truly believed it would be this miraculous turnaround, but given the investment this squad should comfortably be sitting at worst in a play off spot right now. That we are practically in the relegation zone a quarter of the way into the season is beyond a disaster. You're right this was meant to be more enjoyable and it has been everything but.
But I think you hit one of the problems on the head and that is that maybe he has signed too many players and hasn't got the right balance between keeping the core of players from last season who look like they could be effective in the Championship and then adding the quality in selective prositions. Then again the pressure was on to spend, but when you make so many changes right into the season then it is going to take awhile to bed them in.
To me there is a wider problem here and that is that the club has no consistent structure or identity. Two or three times last season we ripped up that dynmic at the club and started again. We've had so many different managers over the last six years and a silly turn over that players. That is the core problem right now. I never thought that RDM was the right man for the job, but we've backed ourserves into a corner now. These are his players and we got ourselves into this mess partly because how often we've changed managers. For the time being at least I think we have to stick with him.
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I just don't think it is dead in November. We're currently 10 points off 2nd, 7 points off a play-off place, 6 points off where SGT was after 10 games.
Aye. But a few weeks back the argument (prob not from you, sb) was that we were level with where GT was at the same stage of the season. Now it's only 6 points. And GT didn't have the luxury of bringing in nine of his own players in the early part of the season, outspending half the First Division and Real Madrid into the bargain back in 87 either.
Last season we were only 6 points off safety, then 8, then 18 or whatever it was in the end.
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I just don't think it is dead in November. We're currently 10 points off 2nd, 7 points off a play-off place, 6 points off where SGT was after 10 games.
Aye. But a few weeks back the argument (prob not from you, sb) was that we were level with where GT was at the same stage of the season. Now it's only 6 points. And GT didn't have the luxury of bringing in nine of his own players in the early part of the season, outspending half the First Division and Real Madrid into the bargain back in 87 either.
Last season we were only 6 points off safety, then 8, then 18 or whatever it was in the end.
the other problem is that RDMis not GT.
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And now it's 13 points off second, 10 behind 6th. We're closer to bottom place than we are 13th. And we don't have SGT in the dugout.
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The facts are it starts and ends with the manager. He and his coaching are responsible in the game to get results as well as performance.
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I'm getting much less patient as I get older. This division was supposed to get us enjoying football again and so far I hate it just as much as last year. RDM can get to fuck, he makes Sherwood look like Guardiola.
me too. I don't think many, if any of us truly believed it would be this miraculous turnaround, but given the investment this squad should comfortably be sitting at worst in a play off spot right now. That we are practically in the relegation zone a quarter of the way into the season is beyond a disaster. You're right this was meant to be more enjoyable and it has been everything but.
The problem is that we should bed seeing signs of improvement by now, but things are getting worse. We're at the point we have been at various times over the last few, where we genuinely look like we can't win a game of football.
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And now it's 13 points off second, 10 behind 6th. We're closer to bottom place than we are 13th. And we don't have SGT in the dugout.
We've blown this season already IMO. This still has a way to go before its turned around and by then it'll be way too late. That's a disgrace quite frankly and RDM has utterly failed.
When we didn't pick up points while playing well he gave himself no margin for error if/when we played poorly. That's happening now so he has to go unfortunatly.
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This table doesn't make great reading;
Aston Villa Manager Stats After First 11 Games
W D L Pts GS GC PPG Win Ratio
John Gregory 9 0 2 27 21 10 2.455 81.82
Tony Barton 6 3 2 21 22 14 1.909 54.55
Alex Massie 6 1 4 19 19 10 1.727 54.55
Tommy Docherty 6 2 3 20 16 11 1.818 54.55
Ron Saunders 5 4 2 19 20 8 1.727 45.45
Tim Sherwood 5 1 5 16 18 16 1.454 45.45
Eric Houghton 5 1 5 16 17 20 1.455 45.45
Graham Turner 4 2 5 14 17 22 1.545 36.36
Billy McNeill 4 3 4 15 16 18 1.364 36.36
Martin O'Neill 4 6 1 18 14 9 1.636 36.36
Brian Little 4 6 1 18 13 8 1.636 36.36
Joe Mercer 4 1 6 13 13 17 1.182 36.36
Alex Mcleish 3 6 2 15 16 15 1.363 27.27
Jozef Venglos 3 4 4 13 13 11 1.636 27.27
Ron Atkinson 3 3 5 12 12 14 1.091 27.27
Graham Taylor Mk1 3 5 3 14 10 9 1.273 27.27
Dick Taylor 2 2 7 8 14 26 0.727 18.18
Gerard Houllier 2 4 5 10 11 19 0.909 18.18
Paul Lambert 2 3 6 9 10 17 0.818 18.18
David O'Leary 2 6 3 12 9 13 1.091 18.18
Tommy Cummings 2 1 8 7 9 20 0.636 18.18
George Martin 1 4 6 7 11 17 0.636 9.09
Vic Crowe 1 3 7 6 11 20 0.545 9.09
Roberto Di Matteo 1 7 3 10 10 12 0.909 9.09
Graham Taylor Mk2 1 4 6 7 10 17 0.636 9.09
Remi Garde 1 4 6 7 8 20 0.636 9.09
Based on three points for a win
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Enigma would be a suitable word. I could see the reason in every signing he made.
But the tactics... I will never understand.
A very odd period - on the back of some very odd periods.
I'll take a deep breath and give Bruce a chance.