Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: abc123cox on April 23, 2014, 10:13:26 AM
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I keep reading threads, posts, tweets and Facebook statuses saying we need Moyes or any one else because of English football and so on, so I've done a quick post for other ways to go about it...
I look at this 2 ways...
1. if Lerner stays and we have a limited budget again and its a decision between Lambert and Moyes then really only one winner, Moyes has proved time and time again at Everton what he can do with limited resources, the players he unearthed from lower league or european nothingness was all to see, compared to Lambert (few players asside) who most are just poor, and Moyes is very loyal, yes he went to Man Utd but after 10years at Everton he deserved his chance at the then champions.
2. If Lerner does sell up to a supposed consortium of billionaires or a just a single multi billionaire who wants to invest a significant amount then sorry but Lambert and Moyes are not the way to go, both have shown they can't handle the bigger players, both prefer to work with hungry players they can develop. only manager in England who i believe could do this is don't take no shit Big Sam (but dire football and no thanks) so what to do??? we could always look abroad...
OK who is abroad.... these are just a few managers who I'd love to see be given a chance at Villa with a good backing of cash, i have no life so d tend to watch a lot of European football...
Vitor Periera: the work he done with porto was amazing, he can handle the big time charlies as AVB used to call him is enforcer, heard he's in Saudi somewhere but would love the chance at managing in England.
Tomas Tuchel: took over from Klopp at Mainz and broke his record in 1st 2 seasons at club.
Frank De Boer: rescued Ajax after Martin Jol's disaster, he a very good tactician who would like nothing more then to manage in the premier league, his record at Ajax since taking over has been 2nd to none,
Marcelo Biesla: unfortunately he's been snapped up by Marseille but he was the one i would of wanted.
Antonio Conte: anyone who knows Italian football will know what he's done at Juventus, however he'd be very hard to get him over to England, but right money and motivation could sway it.
I'm sure given more time i could come up with a lot more, if prem experience is required then obv my preferred choices would be AVB (yes struggled at Chelsea & Spurs but he's avery decent young manager), Laudrup (Swansea in europe killed him this year, also missing Michu was a massive blow), Pochettino (Southampton just ooze class) and of course who i would still love to see at Villa Benitez...
this is purely open for debate but wanted to find out if any other fans on here are similar thinking to me?
1st time topic so please be nice.
Thanks
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There was discussion on R5 last night about the future of management and the fact that British leagues are the last to hold on to this idea of long term commitment from a manager. That in Italy there was no stigma attached to a manager that only commits for a 2/3 year job and then moves on. I can't see the advantage in that, surely stability, as long as in doesn't become inertia, is preferable to a constantly changing managerial ideology? Any how to return to the above point I think people still see British managers as somebody that is willing to commit to a long term stretch at a club, something we still see as positive.
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I'd like to see what a foreign manager could do at the Villa. We've had two so far, one of which was an experiment and another who had been away from the game for a while and was not in good health. It'd be great to find the next Pocchetino.
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British Football is very parochial, that's why.
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British Football is very parochial, that's why.
We're not that limited, look at Southampton or Swansea with Laurup. It's just most are more old fashioned.
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I'm not interested in Moyes myself, I find him dull as dishwater
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British Football is very parochial, that's why.
I like that word
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British Football is very parochial, that's why.
I like that word
I once had a mate who was infatuated by the word mediocrity which, he only heard for the first time in the lyrics of the Simon & Garfunkel song; Homeward Bound. I couldn't believe he'd never heard it before. He'd be a make a great Villa supporter now.
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Get the best manager you can. If he uses Villa as a stepping stone, so what? He'll have done a good job. Same with players.
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I have been going on about Pocchetino a few times on here , thou I think he could go Spurzz , but I noticed his win rate was not as good as I thought even with Espanyol . Winning 19 and losing 17 with Soton .
I suppose still better than Lamberts 31%
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For me it depends on who owns the club come August. If Randy still does then I'd stick with British. Tried and tested and Moyes would of course be a far better option than Lambert, even if he has been damaged by his time at Utd. He'd still improve us.
If we get bought out I'd want us to be ambitious and approach a good foreign manager. Also under Lerner it's very evident that a total lack of footballing nous at the club means that appointing the next Pochettino would have the same liklihood as winning the Lottery two weeks running. Under Lerner I see it as a near impossibility. If he makes bad choices with the managers with known reputations domestically, then appointing an unheard of foreign coach will only end in disaster.
So it's vital any potential new owner gets proper football men at the top end of our infrastructure. Southampton are running their club very well at the moment. The had the nous to make the call on Pochettino, even though Adkins was actually doing a good job. That took balls and no small amount of nous. It's paid off. Combine that with their academy and the type of signings they make in conjunction, and it's paying dividends at the moment.
So in the event of a takeover we can go two routes. Young up and coming foreign coach, or a more established foreign coach who would cost more and perhaps only stay 1-2 years to lay foundations.
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For me it depends on who owns the club come August. If Randy still does then I'd stick with British. Tried and tested and Moyes would of course be a far better option than Lambert, even if he has been damaged by his time at Utd. He'd still improve us.
If we get bought out I'd want us to be ambitious and approach a good foreign manager. Also under Lerner it's very evident that a total lack of footballing nous at the club means that appointing the next Pochettino would have the same liklihood as winning the Lottery two weeks running. Under Lerner I see it as a near impossibility. If he makes bad choices with the managers with known reputations domestically, then appointing an unheard of foreign coach will only end in disaster.
So it's vital any potential new owner gets proper football men at the top end of our infrastructure. Southampton are running their club very well at the moment. The had the nous to make the call on Pochettino, even though Adkins was actually doing a good job. That took balls and no small amount of nous. It's paid off. Combine that with their academy and the type of signings they make in conjunction, and it's paying dividends at the moment.
So in the event of a takeover we can go two routes. Young up and coming foreign coach, or a more established foreign coach who would cost more and perhaps only stay 1-2 years to lay foundations.
Agree with this, which is why I think the first appointment should be Nicola Cortese who was them man making all these decisions.
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abc, you mention that Pereira and De Boer would love to manage in England. How do you know?
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Benitez, no thanks, also I doubt Moyes would come to work under current constraints even after a poor season a Man U i think he'd only come to us if there was serious cash to spend.
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abc, you mention that Pereira and De Boer would love to manage in England. How do you know?
I can think of a few million reasons.
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The fact that McLeish was in the top 20 paid managers in the world when he was with us makes me think that there are plenty of managers on the continent that would be more than happy to come to us should any vacancy arise.
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While I enjoy beans on toast, a bit of bangers and mash and a nice cuppa, I find myself yearning for Poule au Pot Henri IV, tagliatelle all'etrusca and a a bottle of Côte Rôtie.
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I've seen foreign managers at Villa Park - Jo Venglos & Gerard Houlier. I wasn't impressed.
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That is like saying I have eaten snails and been force fed some some weird eastern european stew and are now ruling out all cuisine from beyond these shores.
I want a manager who will be focused on keeping the ball on the floor, teaching movement when a player is in possession, pressing the opposition everywhere on the pitch when not in possession and having skill, speed and real technical flair in the side.
I don't then care where they are from.
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Agree with this, which is why I think the first appointment should be Nicola Cortese who was them man making all these decisions.
The main question mark about him is that they now owe a lot of money due to the transfer dealings under his stewardship. Furthermore the youth coaches eff-ed off to Fulham when he joined (I think) so he may inadvertantly have messed up the production line of youth players too.
Regardless a football man of that job description is required, whether he is the man is hard to say from our position outside the game.
My wild card for this role would be Southgate. He has an affiliation with the club, has studied the development side of football whilst with the FA and seemingly is not interested in going into club management preferring to focus his attention in building the structure required for success (if his quotes are to be believed). I'd even let him carry on with the U21 gig (as it'd be the perfect way to tap up players).
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We don't need British. We need a good progressive football manager with a good footballing ethos wherever he comes from IMHO
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Good call, Dante.
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British coaching and managing style has become way too stale and stagnated, which IMO is partly the reason why english haven't really had top world class players in years. Tactically, with very rare exceptions, british managers are too inflexible and are still stuck on the traditional "English"-style of football and especially coaching.
When you look at many british managers who rise to the premier league, they have one or two good seasons and then they get found out and for some reason are unable or unwilling to change the way their teams play.
We've had just couple managers outside of UK and even though Houllier wasn't and still isn't popular, he had clear plan to rebuild the team and set up network of contacts, scouting etc. for someone to take over in couple of years, it's just a shame that he had heart problems before he could finish the job. I find it just staggering that Lerner chose to abandon that plan and hire TSM.
We need someone like that and I don't think there are suitable english managers to do that. Although I gotta admit that hiring Director of Football would probably be necessary for that. I wonder if Houllier is free for DOF...
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Frank De Boer: rescued Ajax after Martin Jol's disaster, he a very good tactician who would like nothing more then to manage in the premier league, his record at Ajax since taking over has been 2nd to none,
Thanks
Very good record at Ajax, so might be wanted by some of Europe's elite. Saying that, if the rumoured takeover happens (very big if) then who knows. He'd be my number one choice, as he is a big name in European football and would be coming from a club with a world renowned academy system. The fact that he would have no baggage with any other English clubs would be a plus as well.
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Agree with this, which is why I think the first appointment should be Nicola Cortese who was them man making all these decisions.
The main question mark about him is that they now owe a lot of money due to the transfer dealings under his stewardship. Furthermore the youth coaches eff-ed off to Fulham when he joined (I think) so he may inadvertantly have messed up the production line of youth players too.
Regardless a football man of that job description is required, whether he is the man is hard to say from our position outside the game.
My wild card for this role would be Southgate. He has an affiliation with the club, has studied the development side of football whilst with the FA and seemingly is not interested in going into club management preferring to focus his attention in building the structure required for success (if his quotes are to be believed). I'd even let him carry on with the U21 gig (as it'd be the perfect way to tap up players).
With all the trend toward European 1st team coaches and shorter managerial tenures in general then it is essential that there is stability and a coherent strategy on all other footballing areas of the club.
Southgate might be very useful in developing a structure which bridges the academy into 1st team football and which may include scouting and bringing unproven overseas talent into the club.
I don't see him as first team coach given his poor record to date.
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British coaching and managing style has become way too stale and stagnated, which IMO is partly the reason why english haven't really had top world class players in years. Tactically, with very rare exceptions, british managers are too inflexible and are still stuck on the traditional "English"-style of football and especially coaching.
When you look at many british managers who rise to the premier league, they have one or two good seasons and then they get found out and for some reason are unable or unwilling to change the way their teams play.
Got to disagree with the sweeping generalisations made here. It's all about ability, objectives, supporting structures and finance - not nationality.
Rogers and Pullis are the two standout managers this season - both British, both playing very different styles of football.
Ferguson has been the most consistently successful manager in Europe over the past 20 years and he stuck with a very British style on and off the pitch.
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Whoever happens to be the next Villa manager (from the British Isles or from further a field) will need to be a miracle worker due to the current state the club is in (and has been for a number of years) – it’s an obvious shambles and needs reshaping from the the top down. A major overhaul.
A British manager would probably “get” the club more and possibly appreciate the history/fans and be more familiar with some of our past players. I think Lambert shows this appreciation (as did McLeish) unlike for example Houllier who whilst arguably having some progressive management, footballing ideas, in my opinion didn’t. That isn’t to say that I don’t want a foreign manager (after witnessing the worst football I’ve ever witnessed at Villa Park under two managers who did understand and appreciate the history) I just think it’s majorly important he has an appreciation of the club and forms that bond with the fans. It’s just one hell of a big job.
The romantic says a foreign sexy football manager whilst the pragmatist says a British manager to help steady and improve the fast sinking, stinking, ship.
Although the cautious approach could and probably would see us overtaken by the more progressive clubs as it has done (by the Southampton's of this world).
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If there are big changes I'd like to see a DOF brought in, especially with how managerial appointments are changing. Head coach would be better than a manager imho. Pick a system, philosophy, whatever. Employ whomever we need to ensure that said system is taught and deployed from youth to first team...and stick with it, no drastic changes. The stability should come from the club's philosophy.
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I think we need an input from Nigel Farage here!
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Frank De Boer: rescued Ajax after Martin Jol's disaster, he a very good tactician who would like nothing more then to manage in the premier league, his record at Ajax since taking over has been 2nd to none,
Thanks
Very good record at Ajax, so might be wanted by some of Europe's elite. Saying that, if the rumoured takeover happens (very big if) then who knows. He'd be my number one choice, as he is a big name in European football and would be coming from a club with a world renowned academy system. The fact that he would have no baggage with any other English clubs would be a plus as well.
Would be a fantastic choice (although he is contracted with Ajax until 2017) he has stated that both Liverpool and Spurs have approached him in the past and he would be interested if the timing was right (as opposed to half way through a season). It wouldn't surprise me if he was already lined up to replace Sherwood at the end of the season.
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The fact that McLeish was in the top 20 paid managers in the world when he was with us makes me think that there are plenty of managers on the continent that would be more than happy to come to us should any vacancy arise.
This.
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While I enjoy beans on toast, a bit of bangers and mash and a nice cuppa, I find myself yearning for Poule au Pot Henri IV, tagliatelle all'etrusca and a a bottle of Côte Rôtie.
Some very bad spelling of English words and funny letters used in this post.
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It is the case that most British managers come from 20th century British football culture, which is by and large a direct, percentages style, with all the virtues of determination and organisation and all the vices of rigidity and unsophistication. You get the odd exception like Rodgers, but for the most part they're all pretty much the same.
As for Moyes, he is, I have to say, the absolute zenith of the type of manager we do not need. He's good at reactive tactics, defence-building, that sort of thing, but what we need is someone with stylistic vision, someone who'll use the youth system (which by all accounts Moyes failed to do), someone who will above all drag this club kicking and screaming into this century. Nothing against Moyes, or indeed against Lambert, but they're just the opposite of what we need right now.
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De Boer really has done an excellent job. When he arrived, Ajax had not won the league for around 6 or so seasons and had even struggled to make the UEFA spot. He turned the team around and they have not only won it three seasons in a row, but this year they will do done so with arguably their weakest squad for a number of years. Having now achieved all he can here, he would certainly be looking for a new challenge, but I reckon he’s almost nailed on to go to The Spuds, now that Van Gaal seems destined for Manure.
For anyone who thinks that Koeman is a good idea, well whilst Ajax will once more win the title, Feyenoord will once more be the bridesmaid, despite having a far superior squad this season. Whilst Ajax has ground out results, Feyenoord have been tactically out-maneuvered by such giants of football as Heracles and RFC Waalwijk. Whilst Feyenoorders will be sad to see him go, it is not a great reflection on his coaching that they have effectively blown a title they really should have nailed this season.
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Given some of the things that are being revealed about Moyes an his management style, tactics, training methods etc, and knowing that all PL players will be reading all of this, he'll be better off getting away from the game for a bit, and resurfacing when things have cooled down a lot. He might have been a good appointment post MON, maybe even post TSM, but certainly not now.
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It is the case that most British managers come from 20th century British football culture, which is by and large a direct, percentages style, with all the virtues of determination and organisation and all the vices of rigidity and unsophistication. You get the odd exception like Rodgers, but for the most part they're all pretty much the same.
As for Moyes, he is, I have to say, the absolute zenith of the type of manager we do not need. He's good at reactive tactics, defence-building, that sort of thing, but what we need is someone with stylistic vision, someone who'll use the youth system (which by all accounts Moyes failed to do), someone who will above all drag this club kicking and screaming into this century. Nothing against Moyes, or indeed against Lambert, but they're just the opposite of what we need right now.
This I was trying to get at with my posting, but Monty was better at paraphrasing it.
Crystal Palace has been much better than expected under Pulis and Stoke was consistent with him but his managing style and ability will get teams only so far. Highest where Stoke finished with Pulis was 11th, and they spent a lot of money on players.
Brendan Rodgers might be or might become one of the best british managers but time will tell. They do play very good football, and what I've seen it looks to be at least a bit of combination of higher tempo more direct british style and continental, more passing football.
When you look at how well british managers have fared in the premier league and if you count scottish managers too, only two managers from british isles have won the league (Ferguson and Dalglish), and only four managers from BI have gotten second place: Dalglish, Ferguson, BFR and Keegan. For some reason managers from BI by large has been unable to break through to the top 4-5, and this has become even more evident in the last 6-7 years as last english manager who managed to break to the top 4 was Harry Redknap twice with Tottenham.
One could make a point that the big clubs haven't been willing to give chance for managers from BI as they're not enough high profile but I don't think it's just that.
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Exactly. This is why it makes me laugh when people say 'well Venglos and Houllier didn't work, so no foreign managers at the Villa please': firstly, that the whole area of Foreignia, a bit bigger than Britain at last check, is written off because two weren't particularly good for us over a total of two seasons of our 140-years history; secondly, over that history, we've had an almost unbroken run of British/Irish managers, not many of whom have been unmitigated successes.
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
You surely haven't forgotten the other one?
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It is the case that most British managers come from 20th century British football culture, which is by and large a direct, percentages style, with all the virtues of determination and organisation and all the vices of rigidity and unsophistication. You get the odd exception like Rodgers, but for the most part they're all pretty much the same.
As for Moyes, he is, I have to say, the absolute zenith of the type of manager we do not need. He's good at reactive tactics, defence-building, that sort of thing, but what we need is someone with stylistic vision, someone who'll use the youth system (which by all accounts Moyes failed to do), someone who will above all drag this club kicking and screaming into this century. Nothing against Moyes, or indeed against Lambert, but they're just the opposite of what we need right now.
Agree wholeheartedly, Monty.
As Dave pointed out, we pay top wages to managers and it's about time we started seeing somebody actually earn them. There are plenty of good options out there, we just need to make sure this time we choose the right one, not so much to win us instant success but more to point us in the right direction. Once we're there, it should be a lot easier attracting the right managers because right now, unless something changes over the summer, we're hardly the most attractive club for any manager worth his salt and it's about time we ended the cycle of being the PL's easiest managerial pension donators, where failure is rewarded and compensation paid out on leaving the cushy number.
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
You surely haven't forgotten the other one?
Robert O'Dimatteo?
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
You surely haven't forgotten the other one?
Top four or trophy? I've drawn a total blank. Did Dalglish win a trophy?
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
You surely haven't forgotten the other one?
Robert O'Dimatteo?
the great TSM is who he's on about with the unwashed down the road
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Oh God. I'd bleached it from my memory.
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*adopts post-traumatic counselling strategy*
Who?
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How many British managers (Rednose excepted) have won a trophy or finished top four in the past ten years?
Harry Redknapp and Steve Mclaren
You've missed at least one, but the point stands.
Moyes and now Rodgers are the other two (if you count NI).
I actually thought he was English until now. Where is the things learnt on H&V thread?
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Did Dalglish win a trophy?
Does the Award for 'The Biggest Waste of a Transfer Budget in the History of Football' count?
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The argument that whoever wins trophies determines whether managers of a given nationality are good or bad is nonsense. I tried to make this point when people made sweeping generalisations about British managers.
In the last 10 years there have been 4 winners of the premier league; Arsenal, Chelsea, Man C, Man U.
I'm not sure you can draw any generalisations about the managers of these clubs. Indeed there are so many contradictions.
With the possible exception of last year the only common thread is paying for the best players.
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The simple answer is we don't need a British manager.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
De Boer is miles out of our league- he's more likely to pitch up at Barca than Villa. Wages aren't that relevant in my opinion - footballers will take the quick buck, managers have a career and reputation to consider which can be easily tarnished.
This job is not very attractive whilst Lerner remains in charge - big club with tiny budget isn't a appealing combination so agree that Moyes would be the best bet for slowly moving us in the right direction. But even he may get better offers.
Anyhow, I suspect if Lerner stays, Lambert will.
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For me it depends on who owns the club come August. If Randy still does then I'd stick with British. Tried and tested and Moyes would of course be a far better option than Lambert, even if he has been damaged by his time at Utd. He'd still improve us.
If we get bought out I'd want us to be ambitious and approach a good foreign manager. Also under Lerner it's very evident that a total lack of footballing nous at the club means that appointing the next Pochettino would have the same liklihood as winning the Lottery two weeks running. Under Lerner I see it as a near impossibility. If he makes bad choices with the managers with known reputations domestically, then appointing an unheard of foreign coach will only end in disaster.
So it's vital any potential new owner gets proper football men at the top end of our infrastructure. Southampton are running their club very well at the moment. The had the nous to make the call on Pochettino, even though Adkins was actually doing a good job. That took balls and no small amount of nous. It's paid off. Combine that with their academy and the type of signings they make in conjunction, and it's paying dividends at the moment.
So in the event of a takeover we can go two routes. Young up and coming foreign coach, or a more established foreign coach who would cost more and perhaps only stay 1-2 years to lay foundations.
But Moyes took Everton to the lowest points tally in their history!
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For me it depends on who owns the club come August. If Randy still does then I'd stick with British. Tried and tested and Moyes would of course be a far better option than Lambert, even if he has been damaged by his time at Utd. He'd still improve us.
If we get bought out I'd want us to be ambitious and approach a good foreign manager. Also under Lerner it's very evident that a total lack of footballing nous at the club means that appointing the next Pochettino would have the same liklihood as winning the Lottery two weeks running. Under Lerner I see it as a near impossibility. If he makes bad choices with the managers with known reputations domestically, then appointing an unheard of foreign coach will only end in disaster.
So it's vital any potential new owner gets proper football men at the top end of our infrastructure. Southampton are running their club very well at the moment. The had the nous to make the call on Pochettino, even though Adkins was actually doing a good job. That took balls and no small amount of nous. It's paid off. Combine that with their academy and the type of signings they make in conjunction, and it's paying dividends at the moment.
So in the event of a takeover we can go two routes. Young up and coming foreign coach, or a more established foreign coach who would cost more and perhaps only stay 1-2 years to lay foundations.
But Moyes took Everton to the lowest points tally in their history!
Which really does highlight how shit Lambert is.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
De Boer is miles out of our league- he's more likely to pitch up at Barca than Villa. Wages aren't that relevant in my opinion - footballers will take the quick buck, managers have a career and reputation to consider which can be easily tarnished.
This job is not very attractive whilst Lerner remains in charge - big club with tiny budget isn't a appealing combination so agree that Moyes would be the best bet for slowly moving us in the right direction. But even he may get better offers.
Anyhow, I suspect if Lerner stays, Lambert will.
Would people of said the same about Laudrup, his success at Bromby had him touted for some big clubs but that still didn't stop him rocking up in South Wales, my point is De Boer is no where near the finished article and no disrespect to The Dutch league but it is no where near the size in calibre of the premierleague.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
De Boer is miles out of our league- he's more likely to pitch up at Barca than Villa. Wages aren't that relevant in my opinion - footballers will take the quick buck, managers have a career and reputation to consider which can be easily tarnished.
This job is not very attractive whilst Lerner remains in charge - big club with tiny budget isn't a appealing combination so agree that Moyes would be the best bet for slowly moving us in the right direction. But even he may get better offers.
Anyhow, I suspect if Lerner stays, Lambert will.
Would people of said the same about Laudrup, his success at Bromby had him touted for some big clubs but that still didn't stop him rocking up in South Wales, my point is De Boer is no where near the finished article and no disrespect to The Dutch league but it is no where near the size in calibre of the premierleague.
Isn't he surrounded by a pretty large management structure at Ajax? We currently lack that, with a vacuum of footballing know-how at the upper echelons of the club. That aspect might appeal to him - if he wants complete control -, or equally, and more likely he will be found to be out of his depth, swamped by the amount of admin required to run all footballing aspects of the club.
I actually think getting the right structure in place is more important than the selection of the next manager if we want to build more long term sustainable success.
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Yes agreed, if we do get taken over the 1st appointment should be a DoF, start at the top and work the way down, my point was just that De Boer or any of the other managers I suggested were getable expecially if the infrastructure is set up 1st.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
De Boer is miles out of our league- he's more likely to pitch up at Barca than Villa. Wages aren't that relevant in my opinion - footballers will take the quick buck, managers have a career and reputation to consider which can be easily tarnished.
This job is not very attractive whilst Lerner remains in charge - big club with tiny budget isn't a appealing combination so agree that Moyes would be the best bet for slowly moving us in the right direction. But even he may get better offers.
Anyhow, I suspect if Lerner stays, Lambert will.
Would people of said the same about Laudrup, his success at Bromby had him touted for some big clubs but that still didn't stop him rocking up in South Wales, my point is De Boer is no where near the finished article and no disrespect to The Dutch league but it is no where near the size in calibre of the premierleague.
At the time winning the Supaliga with Brøndby was the equivalent of winning the SPL with either Rangers or Celtic.
I still think that his best achievement is keeping Mallorca in LaLiga the year he was there.
Imagine a retrenchment greater than ours over the last 4 years happening over one summer.
In our terms, it would have meant never signing, Benteke, Bacuna, N'Zogbia, Vlarr.
Delph, Clark, Bannan, Gabby, and anyone else with more than about £50 sell on value would have gone in the summer of 2011. Even signings of at the level of Westwood, Lowton and Bennett would have been beyond us.
Then keep the remaining assortment of youth team, unsellable journeymen and free transfers and loans afloat.
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It all depends on budgets for me, if Randy doesn't sell up then i don't know of another manager who could do much better then Moyes, however I wouldn't trust him with a sizable transfer budget.
I honestly think foreign is the way forward. Any of the names in my post could be getable if we tried hard enough. The likes of De Boer and Periera even though sound out of our league are not Fact is we could nearly triple there wages and still pay them less then McLeish, our only problem is the likes of Spurs or Man Utd getting there before us, but since Periera moved to Saudi he's been off the radar a little and could be the diamond in the rough we need.
De Boer is miles out of our league- he's more likely to pitch up at Barca than Villa. Wages aren't that relevant in my opinion - footballers will take the quick buck, managers have a career and reputation to consider which can be easily tarnished.
This job is not very attractive whilst Lerner remains in charge - big club with tiny budget isn't a appealing combination so agree that Moyes would be the best bet for slowly moving us in the right direction. But even he may get better offers.
Anyhow, I suspect if Lerner stays, Lambert will.
Would people of said the same about Laudrup, his success at Bromby had him touted for some big clubs but that still didn't stop him rocking up in South Wales, my point is De Boer is no where near the finished article and no disrespect to The Dutch league but it is no where near the size in calibre of the premierleague.
At the time winning the Supaliga with Brøndby was the equivalent of winning the SPL with either Rangers or Celtic.
I still think that his best achievement is keeping Mallorca in LaLiga the year he was there.
Imagine a retrenchment greater than ours over the last 4 years happening over one summer.
In our terms, it would have meant never signing, Benteke, Bacuna, N'Zogbia, Vlarr.
Delph, Clark, Bannan, Gabby, and anyone else with more than about £50 sell on value would have gone in the summer of 2011. Even signings of at the level of Westwood, Lowton and Bennett would have been beyond us.
Then keep the remaining assortment of youth team, unsellable journeymen and free transfers and loans afloat.
I would love Laudrup at Villa, exp if he bought Laursen in as his no.2
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Oh and to answer the original question we don't.
We need the right man for the job, but more importantly we need the right structure above either Lambert or a new "head coach" with a DoF.
Despite the actual titles I Thit that this was almost the structure Man Utd ended up with, Ferguson being more of a hands on DOF with a regular rotation of coaches under him, either just to keep things fresh, or to take in new knowledge and ideas, but with the basic structure and philosophy stable, but under constant evolution.
It's that sort of stability we need rather than (very expensively) ripping up the template every time we change manager, whilst avoiding the inertia we ended up with MON.
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Oh and to answer the original question we don't.
We need the right man for the job, but more importantly we need the right structure above either Lambert or a new "head coach" with a DoF.
Despite the actual titles I Thit that this was almost the structure Man Utd ended up with, Ferguson being more of a hands on DOF with a regular rotation of coaches under him, either just to keep things fresh, or to take in new knowledge and ideas, but with the basic structure and philosophy stable, but under constant evolution.
It's that sort of stability we need rather than (very expensively) ripping up the template every time we change manager, whilst avoiding the inertia we ended up with MON.
I agree with this, and thought way back that this was the kind of structure that would have utilised the skills of MON much better, however his massive ego wouldn't have let it happen, I'm sure.
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I think its a bit premature worrying about a new manager just yet. The current manager and playing staff need to concentrate on keeping us in the top division. If they fail and the current manager leaves the club (as will probably happen) then the type of manager we will require might be vastly different to those suggested above.
It all depends ,of course ,who it is that wants to put their hard earned money into our club if we are to be taken over. Do they have any great knowledge about football, in fact, does that matter?
The people at Man City didnt appear to know an awful lot but could afford the best players from around the world.
In fact,as with most things, it all comes down to money and at the moment we havent got it, but in a few months time it might be a different picture we shall see.
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KKK won the league cup with Liverpool didn't he?
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I would love Laudrup Villa, exp if he bought Laursen in as his no.2
Now that's another one I don't understand.
A former club player, or for that matter someone who was a good player, is instantly qualified to coach at a high level.
As annoying as he is as a pundit, Lawrenson was actually a good centre half in his day. However his attempts to help his mate Keegan sort out Newcastle's defensive problems first time around, were a disaster.
It's the same mistake organisations the world over make. Just because someone is good at what they do, doesn't mean that they're good leaders or coaches for the departments they've been working in.
Laursen had 6 months in charge at his local club at the bottom of the Danish 3rd division if I can remember correctly, followed by 18 months away and has now been coaching the defence for Silkeborg in the Danish 2nd division for the last 6-9 months.
Not exactly good preparation for helping sort out our shambles.
Here and now we either need someone who can be an experienced "sticking plaster" whilst the whole structure and backroom organisation of the club is restructured, or someone who can take on the whole job, but we've seen where that can end a la MON
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Did Dalglish win a trophy?
Does the Award for 'The Biggest Waste of a Transfer Budget in the History of Football' count?
O'Neill has that.
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wasnt to long back that the names that kept cropping up time after time after time was as certain pepe mel and a norwegian ex manc whos name i cant spell and as i look over the edge yes there they are below us.
any foriegn coach coming here who hasnt got millions to spend is in my mind a gamble
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wasnt to long back that the names that kept cropping up time after time after time was as certain pepe mel and a norwegian ex manc whos name i cant spell and as i look over the edge yes there they are below us.
any foriegn coach coming here who hasnt got millions to spend is in my mind a gamble
Fixed
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remember the days when the villa fans glass was always half full
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This whole debate is just a false premise
It's like saying 'I want our manager to be a former striker'
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This whole debate is just a false premise
It's like saying 'I want our manager to be a former striker'
Too right.
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I would love Laudrup Villa, exp if he bought Laursen in as his no.2
Now that's another one I don't understand.
A former club player, or for that matter someone who was a good player, is instantly qualified to coach at a high level.
As annoying as he is as a pundit, Lawrenson was actually a good centre half in his day. However his attempts to help his mate Keegan sort out Newcastle's defensive problems first time around, were a disaster.
It's the same mistake organisations the world over make. Just because someone is good at what they do, doesn't mean that they're good leaders or coaches for the departments they've been working in.
Laursen had 6 months in charge at his local club at the bottom of the Danish 3rd division if I can remember correctly, followed by 18 months away and has now been coaching the defence for Silkeborg in the Danish 2nd division for the last 6-9 months.
Not exactly good preparation for helping sort out our shambles.
Here and now we either need someone who can be an experienced "sticking plaster" whilst the whole structure and backroom organisation of the club is restructured, or someone who can take on the whole job, but we've seen where that can end a la MON
Exactly. Let's look at the playing careers of the managers of the top 4: Rodgers v limited, Mourinho none at all, Pellegrini spent his whole career in the Chilean second division, Wenger none at all.
I think increasingly managers are making it based on merit rather than playing career.
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You see the same thing in tennis, where a lot of the top coaches have not been top players, but are very good at spotting and correcting problems with technique, and game strategy.
Just noticed my 1000th post and I end up talking about tennis in a thread about the merits of British coaches.
H&V in a microcosm.