Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: sali,salifou on January 08, 2014, 11:10:47 AM
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First post on here for a long time, but felt like this was worth sharing.
Tommy Hitz has just come out, becoming possibly the biggest name in football to do so.
Well done sir, well done indeed.
http://www.zeit.de/sport/2014-01/thomas-hitzlsperger-homosexualitaet-fussball (it's in German, but Chrome and other browsers will translate it)
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One of my favourite players of the past twenty years. Good man, Thomas, and best of luck.
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Fair play to him and good luck.
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Good luck to him, he's a brave man.
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It's a real shame that players are only able to come out once they've retired although to be honest I don't give a stuff about their sexuality. Like him as a player and as a man and wish him well.
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Was as good player for us. I couldn't give a fuck if players are gay or not. Shame that some people do care and feel the need to abuse people about such a thing. I doubt more players will come out.
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Shoooooooooot
Decent player for us and seemed to love the club, all the best for the future Der Hammer.
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Good luck to Der Hammer
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Can only echo what others have already said.
It's sad that a player and man as well respected as him still doesn't feel able to do this while still playing.
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What an incredibly brave thing to do. Good luck to Der Hammer.
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Didn't see that coming. Were there even rumours in and around birmingham.
I'm amazed that such things can be kept sectret.
It'd be nice if this news was met by a big shrug by the media and general public. One day...
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Shouldn't really be news, but it bloody well will be.
Good on you Tommy. I suppose you're helping to make it that it will no longer be "news" in the future.
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Fair play to Der Hammer for coming out I always liked him as a player. Could do with him in out midfield right now.
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It's a real shame that players are only able to come out once they've retired although to be honest I don't give a stuff about their sexuality. Like him as a player and as a man and wish him well.
This is exactly what I thought too. We now live in a more enlightened time, so the fact that he's had to / chosen to wait until he retired is very sad.
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I seem to remember he had a gf at bham yin when he was here. So I assume he realised he was gay over time. It was probably seeing Gavin McCann naked that did it
Good that he's come out but a shame he had to wait till he'd retired. Genuinely unsure how modern players would react. Is it such a big issue for people under 30? Or am I just basing that on a fairly unrepresentative sample of pinko liberal post uni students that I hang around with?
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Thank God he didnt announce this when he was at West Ham. Der Hammer would have been well and truly 'hammered'
Intelligent lad, doesnt need football to get through life.
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What a shame it has to be an announcement.
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It's a shame he's retired - we could do with him in our midfield!
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He was married , so obviously difficult issue to have lived with.
Good luck to the lad, good player, decent intelligent bloke.
Should be no issue for him in 2014 , wish him well
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I was only thinking about him today.
Not in that way.........................
Just that despite playing for other clubs I think he'll always be a Villa man.
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Good that he's come out but a shame he had to wait till he'd retired. Genuinely unsure how modern players would react. Is it such a big issue for people under 30? Or am I just basing that on a fairly unrepresentative sample of pinko liberal post uni students that I hang around with?
I don't have any articles or quotes to hand, so you'll have to take my word for it, but most of the players/former players who were asked about the subject in the media when Robbie Rogers came out basically said that nobody in the dressing room would care. In fact, some said that there were plenty of players who were known to be gay by their teammates to the point that they would bring their partners to club functions and so on and it was never an issue. The reason these guys didn't come out was because they were afraid of the reaction they'd get off opposition fans, and home fans (because if they went through a bad run of form everyone would assume it was something to do with theur sexuality.)
Hopefully in a few years this sort of thing won't be news any more, but for the time being well done Der Hammer.
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It's crazy today that actors, singers, politicians, business people etc etc can all be openly gay, but not footballers. I bet most of the posters on here couldn't care less what the sexuality of a player is.
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He was married , so obviously difficult issue to have lived with.
Good luck to the lad, good player, decent intelligent bloke.
Should be no issue for him in 2014 , wish him well
I was going to say that he had a girlfriend when he was with us, as she went to college with a friend of a friend.
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It's crazy today that actors, singers, politicians, business people etc etc can all be openly gay, but not footballers. I bet most of the posters on here couldn't care less what the sexuality of a player is.
I think the difference between footballers and all of the above is, as dekko said, a fear of the reaction of opposition fans. I read a football autobiography recently, I can't remember whose because I read a lot of them, but they said most of football knew Fashanu was gay for years and didn't care. I think these days the dressing room would be as accepting as any workplace and the club's supporters would be supportive. Most opponents also with the odd exception I would expect. The fear would be a backlash from opposition fans and the fear of certain managers not wanting you due to these possible complications.
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The beeb (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25628806) have picked it up now.
Good luck to him.
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It's crazy today that actors, singers, politicians, business people etc etc can all be openly gay, but not footballers. I bet most of the posters on here couldn't care less what the sexuality of a player is.
I was just thinking that.
Imagine any other job whereby you feel you couldn't 'come out' until you retired?
It should be a 'so what?' moment, and hopefully will be in time, but it looks like Der hammer has taken the step to publicly announce it so that his actions may make others feel less concerned about being public. Fair play to him for that.
I loved his goals (special mention to the best late winner I've ever seen at the Reebok), and when you look at it he's had a hell of a career.
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What a crazy world that this should even be news.
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What a shame it has to be an announcement.
My feelings entirely.
Best wishes for everything Tommy
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News Now has gone mental with this.
The best headline is from the Daily Mirror, which is giving "live updates".
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This is no news but it is. Thomas is a lovely decent man. I hope his announcement helps others in similar predicament.
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very brave man...all the best Tommy ! UTV
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I am so pleased the way he hasnt made a massive deal of it and just come out with the fact he is gay. He seems to share the opinion of a lot of posters here that it doesnt matter whatsoever
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It's a shame that it's such a big deal, but fair play to him for making it public and hopefully he can do good work in reducing homophobia in football.
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Well done - hopefully it will make it easier for others to do so at an earlier stage during their playing career.
And even more salient, hopefully in 10 years time abslutely no-one (aside from BNP luddites) will bat an eyelid if teams have 2 or 3 openly gay players in thei squad.
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Good that he's come out but a shame he had to wait till he'd retired. Genuinely unsure how modern players would react. Is it such a big issue for people under 30? Or am I just basing that on a fairly unrepresentative sample of pinko liberal post uni students that I hang around with?
I don't have any articles or quotes to hand, so you'll have to take my word for it, but most of the players/former players who were asked about the subject in the media when Robbie Rogers came out basically said that nobody in the dressing room would care. In fact, some said that there were plenty of players who were known to be gay by their teammates to the point that they would bring their partners to club functions and so on and it was never an issue. The reason these guys didn't come out was because they were afraid of the reaction they'd get off opposition fans, and home fans (because if they went through a bad run of form everyone would assume it was something to do with theur sexuality.)
Hopefully in a few years this sort of thing won't be news any more, but for the time being well done Der Hammer.
Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
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Fair play to him, a great footballer and handsome man.
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I'd more impressed if he came out as a, yer know, Brummie...
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Nice one Tommy, fair play and the very best of luck to you. He's always been extremely eloquent and it's good that what he has to say on this issue will be widely reported. He'll also help to create a climate in which others feel able to follow his example.
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For a horrible moment I thought he was coming out as blues fan!
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Top man. Best of luck.
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It is a sport thing as much as just a football thing isn't it? I don't know if it is thought that because you are a top sporting figure as a man you have to be a macho guy, fulfilling a womanising stereo type or what it is, but I certainly hope we can reach a point where this is not news, and people are able to live their lives in the way they wish without it making news for something like this. As others have said, in the meantime well done to Tommy for hopefully helping that transition. People like Tommy and the Rugby guy I always forget the name of are at least tackling the issue which can only be a positive.
More importantly, if he fancies a game, we could do with an attacking mid that can shooooooooot!
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As many have said, it shouldn't be news; that aside I wish him well in his retirement and hope that he is happy in whatever direction life takes him. He always comes accross as an intelligent and articulate bloke so I wouldn't be surprised if a media career awaits him.
Alternately a mentoring role may suit him well as he knows how it felt to move from his homeland at a young age and would be able to relate to.young players coming into a strange environment.
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I agree with all ! I think its super he has stepped up and spoke out . I saw the news on here and turned on the radio. I am disappointed in talk sports i may have missed out but didi hamman was on and never heard anything ... Then i heard the news bulletins and they have nt mentioned it at all. ( but also i think talk sport is quite an ignorant station as on monday they talked about Monday the 6th Jan being the bleakest day - yeah well actually its the 3 kings and also a day of celebration for alot of people round europe and the world as its not just english people who listen and live in uk)
Yes agreed it should nt be news but it is in football. Tommy Hitz is the biz !! :)
When will a british player step forward its an age of equality and i support all !!
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Good luck to him,shame he was unable to do this while he was still playing, though probably not wise while he was at Lazio. Could do with him in the midfield right now.
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It isn't a big deal these days for most people when someone comes out as gay. The media may use it for a story if it is somebody high profile or particularly these days a sportsman. I suppose the big deal bit is for the person coming out, depending on how they view it in their own head. I had a good friend from college who kept it secret for years and ended up moving from Birmingham to London because he couldn't cope with grieving for his secret partner who died in an accident and not feeling as if he could tell anyone. After about three years he came back and told everybody and nobody had a problem. In all honesty nobody who knew him well was that shocked to be fair.
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He only scores screamers that one against Bolton - awesome !
And where he nut megged Henry - sick!
Thinking about it Tommy Hitz has got one of the best shots i've ever seen
Just lookingat his techinque and way he strikes ball is ridic
:) 8) ???
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Well done Hitz, brave thing to do and good luck in the future.
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I think a lot of it is down to the media hyping up these stories. Does anyone think any less of him for announcing this? I doubt it. Will it change his post football work, doubt that too.
He is the one that will benefit the most by being true to himself, that's the bravest bit in all of this.
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A lovely man, model pro & lives his life as he sees fit.
We used to call him our daugthers future husband in the early 2000's as he was (& remains) a handsome devil, ideal son in law material. Gutted when he left.
He'll excel in whatever he plans to do next.
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Fair play to him.
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The only thing that bothers me at all about this is that he's already retired. When did that happen?! I remember when he was young and up-and-coming. I'm not bothered by his homosexuality, I'm more concerned about how this makes me feel old...
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In this day and age and with all the other problems in the world, the fact that this made the Sky News (not just Sky Sports News) yellow ticker is ridiculous really. Who cares anymore? Good luck to him, always rated him, shame his career ended so soon.
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Well Done to Tommy Hammer.
Now all is needed is a current footballer to be brave enough to come out and the whole taboo thing about gay footballers can be crushed once and for all.
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I wish it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't a significant thing, but unfortunately in football at the moment it is. So therefore it's very brave of him to do.
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Brave thing to do, all the best Tommy.
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Good luck to him in the future.
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Well done Tommy - will hopefully be a step that allows others to be honest and open about their sexuality
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
But he did in Germany? Also given it appears he was married/had a girlfriend when he played for the Villa it perhaps wasn't common knowledge. Having said which despite the many criticisms of modern footballers I can't imagine many being bothered by something like this, just like the vast majority of people in their own line of work. I can completely understand why footballers don't come out during their careers though As well as the potential abuse from fans and their own personal reasons they may have for not being "out" I think there would be a large degree of unfair pressure on a current pro coming out now & being the first, or one of the first. You would forever be labelled "the first gay footballer" and be seen as some sort of pioneer or trailblazer when you may well not want the attention. Given the goldfish bowl pressures a footballer has in their personal and professional life anyway I can imagine this being seen as an extra unnecessary burden. Sad but true.
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Good luck Der hammer good player for us and a nice bloke too.
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Good luck to him.
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I too remember he had a girl friend who didn't look like you're average erm, wag. He also had a dog called Mika.
And before you accuse me of hanging around Four Oaks, wanking in the bushes while I spy on players, this was in the Mail.
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It is a sport thing as much as just a football thing isn't it? I don't know if it is thought that because you are a top sporting figure as a man you have to be a macho guy, fulfilling a womanising stereo type or what it is, but I certainly hope we can reach a point where this is not news, and people are able to live their lives in the way they wish without it making news for something like this. As others have said, in the meantime well done to Tommy for hopefully helping that transition. People like Tommy and the Rugby guy I always forget the name of are at least tackling the issue which can only be a positive.
More importantly, if he fancies a game, we could do with an attacking mid that can shooooooooot!
I assume you mean Gareth Thomas who again felt he had to wait until he retired, it is a great shame that these guys feel the need to hide this from the public whilst they're playing, As above, clearly a number of players knew and didn't care and that was the case with Thomas as well, it's mostly about the fans, and when you see the treatment of someone like Upson based on a rumour it's not difficult to see why this is the case.
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"As I see it, God created Adam and Eve. He didn’t create Adam and Steve. I’m kind of a homo-sceptic."
Good luck to him. Hope he has plenty of success in his post-footy career.
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I too remember he had a girl friend who didn't look like you're average erm, wag. He also had a dog called Mika.
And before you accuse me of hanging around Four Oaks, wanking in the bushes while I spy on players, this was in the Mail.
But coincidentally.....
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I always liked to hear him interviewed - fluent English with a Brummie accent. Legend.
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Hope it all works out for him, very brave of him.
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Used to be my favourite player when I was younger- wanted his name on the back of my shirt but it would have cost a fortune!
No doubt it's a weight off his shoulders, good luck to him.
It's going to take a very brave man to come out while still playing unfortunately.
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What an abomination. I can't believe it and I must admit I'm really sickened by this news. We'll be the laughing stock of football once again. I thought he was one of the lads. A real man's man. Why did he hide this revolting news from us for all this time? I'm gutted this has come out and that all along was he covering it up and pretending he was something that he wasn't. It disgusts me. Bloody freak of nature.
Oh gay? I thought you said grey. That's alright then.
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I too remember he had a girl friend who didn't look like you're average erm, wag. He also had a dog called Mika.
And before you accuse me of hanging around Four Oaks, wanking in the bushes while I spy on players, this was in the Mail.
Off course it was in the Mail eastie
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Can only echo what others have already said.
It's sad that a player and man as well respected as him still doesn't feel able to do this while still playing.
Its also a shame that he has to 'come out' at all.
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For a horrible moment I thought he was coming out as blues fan!
I'm as liberal and as accepting as the next man but don't even say this kind of thing in jest.
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Aston Villa release a statement after Villa midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger revealed he is gay.
"Everyone who knows Thomas from his time here at Villa has great respect for him, not only as the fine player he was but also as a man," said the statement.
"His statement today is a straightforward statement and, along with our support as a club, we hope that everyone involved in the game extend to him their support as well."
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Aston Villa release a statement after Villa midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger revealed he is gay.
"Everyone who knows Thomas from his time here at Villa has great respect for him, not only as the fine player he was but also as a man," said the statement.
"His statement today is a straightforward statement and, along with our support as a club, we hope that everyone involved in the game extend to him their support as well."
Dignified as ever from the Villa. It's been said before that, whatever we get wrong on the footballing side, we still ooze class off the pitch.
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Aston Villa release a statement after Villa midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger revealed he is gay.
"Everyone who knows Thomas from his time here at Villa has great respect for him, not only as the fine player he was but also as a man," said the statement.
"His statement today is a straightforward statement and, along with our support as a club, we hope that everyone involved in the game extend to him their support as well."
Dignified as ever from the Villa. It's been said before that, whatever we get wrong on the footballing side, we still ooze class off the pitch.
My thoughts exactly when I read it.
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I'd echo what others have said and wonder why this should be newsworthy in 2014. One thing though, is it really *that* brave, considering he's now retired? Granted, I'd imagine coming out requires a degree of bravery under any circumstances (although would you really want to stay close to any relative / loved one who didn't accept your sexuality?), but for a footballer, coming out after you've retired is surely taking the big risk out of the equation?
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As many have said, it shouldn't be news; that aside I wish him well in his retirement and hope that he is happy in whatever direction life takes him. He always comes accross as an intelligent and articulate bloke so I wouldn't be surprised if a media career awaits him.
Alternately a mentoring role may suit him well as he knows how it felt to move from his homeland at a young age and would be able to relate to.young players coming into a strange environment.
I think a lot of it is down to the media hyping up these stories. Does anyone think any less of him for announcing this? I doubt it. Will it change his post football work, doubt that too.
He is the one that will benefit the most by being true to himself, that's the bravest bit in all of this.
I wonder if it will open doors for him in a way, maybe the normal punditry route (as he is eloquent and endearingly foreign-brummie) would be an ideal outcome, not making a 'thing' of it.
Alternatively I do wonder about a role as some sort of inclusion officer/ambassador for our club the FA/German FA etc. not that he should have to make something of it, but just an interesting thought.
I have to say am sick of hearing homophobic comments still at Football, and think I may take this as a confidence boost to challenge a fellow Villa fan if I ever hear some abuse. I've risked challenging racism before and things have got to change.
Here's to the day it's not news anymore.
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I agree with all posters who feel it is sad that this makes headlines on Sky and what this says about the sport, but the counter argument is that if it didn't not much will change. He is being himself, he might not feel he's being brave or trying to send any messages out to the wider game, but he is. Unless these prejudices are challenged they live on, his gesture is significant, as was the American player, because they provoke thought and discussion. Top bloke.
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Here's to the day it's not news anymore.
This. But it is still news in the football world.
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I'd echo what others have said and wonder why this should be newsworthy in 2014. One thing though, is it really *that* brave, considering he's now retired? Granted, I'd imagine coming out requires a degree of bravery under any circumstances (although would you really want to stay close to any relative / loved one who didn't accept your sexuality?), but for a footballer, coming out after you've retired is surely taking the big risk out of the equation?
Surely its better for him being a celebrity to just get it out their rather than tabloids and shitty gossip magazines spreading rumours and eventually outting him?
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This is a serious request. If anyone would be interested in speaking about this on the BBC World Service (radio) tonight at 645 for fifteen minutes or so, please send me a PM.
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
Apologies if this has already been posted but I've just read elsewhere that his comments may have lost something in translation.
It is reported that he said "In England, Italy and Germany being a homosexual is no big thing, at least not in the dressing room." What he actually said was "kein ernsthaftes Thema" which apparently translates as "not a real subject", i.e. something that is not talked about in the dressing room.
Any German speakers on here?
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For a horrible moment I thought he was coming out as blues fan!
Which lets face it... is unforgivable in any walk of life
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Why is football singled out in this though.
As a group of fairly hard-core supporters on here we seem pretty unanimous in the opinion that it's not big news, it doesn't change what we think of Der Hammer and fair play to him. I'd be interested to hear off anyone that has an alternative view to the general consensus? I bet there isn't one, which seems to me to say we are not the homophobic lot that we are made out to be in some quarters of the media and hence it ultimately shouldn't really be news!
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
But he did in Germany? Also given it appears he was married/had a girlfriend when he played for the Villa it perhaps wasn't common knowledge. Having said which despite the many criticisms of modern footballers I can't imagine many being bothered by something like this, just like the vast majority of people in their own line of work. I can completely understand why footballers don't come out during their careers though As well as the potential abuse from fans and their own personal reasons they may have for not being "out" I think there would be a large degree of unfair pressure on a current pro coming out now & being the first, or one of the first. You would forever be labelled "the first gay footballer" and be seen as some sort of pioneer or trailblazer when you may well not want the attention. Given the goldfish bowl pressures a footballer has in their personal and professional life anyway I can imagine this being seen as an extra unnecessary burden. Sad but true.
Er sorry, must have got distracted and typed France, where I'm not aware he played, instead of Germany where he certainly did.
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What was a shame recently was a listing of all the homo-phobic tweets from famous folk in the last year or so. The group consisted predominantly of rappers but also sports stars too. I guess in sports there's still a certain degree of homophobia. I mean a lot of young sportsmen with the medium of twitter at their disposal are just a bit naive and foolish of course.
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Why is football singled out in this though.
As a group of fairly hard-core supporters on here we seem pretty unanimous in the opinion that it's not big news, it doesn't change what we think of Der Hammer and fair play to him. I'd be interested to hear off anyone that has an alternative view to the general consensus? I bet there isn't one, which seems to me to say we are not the homophobic lot that we are made out to be in some quarters of the media and hence it ultimately shouldn't really be news!
When we post on here we do so as individuals with balanced and reasoned views. Most of the time, anyway. But stick us in a stadium and amoidst the passion of a game and a group mentality can easily take over, which tends to be less balanced and reasoned.
See Upson, M.
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Why is football singled out in this though.
As a group of fairly hard-core supporters on here we seem pretty unanimous in the opinion that it's not big news, it doesn't change what we think of Der Hammer and fair play to him. I'd be interested to hear off anyone that has an alternative view to the general consensus? I bet there isn't one, which seems to me to say we are not the homophobic lot that we are made out to be in some quarters of the media and hence it ultimately shouldn't really be news!
When we post on here we do so as individuals with balanced and reasoned views. Most of the time, anyway. But stick us in a stadium and amoidst the passion of a game and a group mentality can easily take over, which tends to be less balanced and reasoned.
See Upson, M.
I agree with what you're saying about the mob mentality, but could it also be that the sort of people who post on websites such as this aren't truly representative of football fans in general?
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
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I'd echo what others have said and wonder why this should be newsworthy in 2014. One thing though, is it really *that* brave, considering he's now retired? Granted, I'd imagine coming out requires a degree of bravery under any circumstances (although would you really want to stay close to any relative / loved one who didn't accept your sexuality?), but for a footballer, coming out after you've retired is surely taking the big risk out of the equation?
Surely its better for him being a celebrity to just get it out their rather than tabloids and shitty gossip magazines spreading rumours and eventually outting him?
Of course it should be his choice whether or not he reveals his sexuality, although i'm not sure many tabloids / gossip mags would be going through his rubbish looking for a story, I liked him when he was at the villa but he's hardly a superstar. My point was that I'm not sure how brave the decision really is, over and above anyone else coming out.
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52 caps for Germany and a Bundesliga title may mean he gets more unwanted media attendion than your average German footballer.
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
Very true. And that vile homophobic Matt Upson song we used to sing not so long ago to great glee from supporters is a stain on our club.
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
Apologies if this has already been posted but I've just read elsewhere that his comments may have lost something in translation.
It is reported that he said "In England, Italy and Germany being a homosexual is no big thing, at least not in the dressing room." What he actually said was "kein ernsthaftes Thema" which apparently translates as "not a real subject", i.e. something that is not talked about in the dressing room.
Any German speakers on here?
"Kein ernsthaftes Thema" literally means: "not a serious subject" but in this context it means "not an issue" or indeed "no big thing".
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
Apologies if this has already been posted but I've just read elsewhere that his comments may have lost something in translation.
It is reported that he said "In England, Italy and Germany being a homosexual is no big thing, at least not in the dressing room." What he actually said was "kein ernsthaftes Thema" which apparently translates as "not a real subject", i.e. something that is not talked about in the dressing room.
Any German speakers on here?
"Kein ernsthaftes Thema" literally means: "not a serious subject" but in this context it means "not an issue" or indeed "no big thing".
Ah, there are two separate posters on the Guardian website that said the meaning was more along the lines of "not a subject that is discussed". However given your username I will bow to your superior knowledge!
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
And whenever Upson played against us.
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Hitz is quoted in the Guardian saying that he didn't have a problem in dressing rooms in the UK, Italy or France.
Apologies if this has already been posted but I've just read elsewhere that his comments may have lost something in translation.
It is reported that he said "In England, Italy and Germany being a homosexual is no big thing, at least not in the dressing room." What he actually said was "kein ernsthaftes Thema" which apparently translates as "not a real subject", i.e. something that is not talked about in the dressing room.
Any German speakers on here?
"Kein ernsthaftes Thema" literally means: "not a serious subject" but in this context it means "not an issue" or indeed "no big thing".
Ah, there are two separate posters on the Guardian website that said the meaning was more along the lines of "not a subject that is discussed". However given your username I will bow to your superior knowledge!
Danke schön!
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
Very true. And that vile homophobic Matt Upson song we used to sing not so long ago to great glee from supporters is a stain on our club.
that's a good point, although I would hope that if Lawrenson actually was gay and came out and did the same as Hitz then that kind of stuff would stop. I'm certainly not disputing the point being made.
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Completely a side issue,but remember seeing him at the chippy by Witton station several times when I worked round the corner,always a very polite and friendly chap,would spend ages chatting to the staff and other customers.
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Completely a side issue,but remember seeing him at the chippy by Witton station several times when I worked round the corner,always a very polite and friendly chap,would spend ages chatting to the staff and other customers.
Are you still homophobic btw?
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Completely a side issue,but remember seeing him at the chippy by Witton station several times when I worked round the corner,always a very polite and friendly chap,would spend ages chatting to the staff and other customers.
Are you still homophobic btw?
You've spelt his name wrong, it's spk not btw.
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Spelling was never my strong point!
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No,the conversation on here ages ago made me think long and hard about my opinions and I realised the error of my former ways.It was quite weird,just after that infamous thread my favorite cousin"came out" and it made me realise what a wanker id been,let me use this to say sorry for offending any fellow H + Vers.I was wrong.
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You must be the first person on the internet to actually admit they're wrong. Fair play.
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
Oh dear... I've just had two texts that sort of back this up... both by non H&Vers I might add.
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I was,sometimes youve got to examine your belief system to make you think how fucked up your former views were.
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No,the conversation on here ages ago made me think long and hard about my opinions and I realised the error of my former ways.It was quite weird,just after that infamous thread my favorite cousin"came out" and it made me realise what a wanker id been,let me use this to say sorry for offending any fellow H + Vers.I was wrong.
Fair play to you, it does take balls to admit that.
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Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
Very true. And that vile homophobic Matt Upson song we used to sing not so long ago to great glee from supporters is a stain on our club.
Sol Campbell as well I recall. Was in the L Holte when that started a few years ago (the 0-0) and asked people near me not to sing it - was asked "what I was going to do about it" and pointed out that was very much up to those singing it.
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Ger and Ads,thanks alot,means the world,feel part of the human race again now !
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I liked him when he played for us, and i like him now.No difference to me whether he's gay or not.
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John Fashanu used to get a lot of homophobic stick from certain quarters about his brother every time we played against Wimbledon. Until we signed him, at which point he just used to get stick for being toss.
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John Fashanu used to get a lot of homophobic stick from certain quarters about his brother every time we played against Wimbledon. Until we signed him, at which point he just used to get stick for being toss.
I think John Fashanu used to be every bit as homophobic to his brother then anyone else was.
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Well done Tommy, but....I kind of knew....did anyone else have an inkling?
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John Fashanu used to get a lot of homophobic stick from certain quarters about his brother every time we played against Wimbledon. Until we signed him, at which point he just used to get stick for being toss.
I think John Fashanu used to be every bit as homophobic to his brother then anyone else was.
The day we signed John Fashanu must rate as one of my worst days in following Villa, not far off relegation in 87 or the 2000 FA Cup Final.
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John Fashanu used to get a lot of homophobic stick from certain quarters about his brother every time we played against Wimbledon. Until we signed him, at which point he just used to get stick for being toss.
I think John Fashanu used to be every bit as homophobic to his brother then anyone else was.
The day we signed John Fashanu must rate as one of my worst days in following Villa, not far off relegation in 87 or the 2000 FA Cup Final.
I know the result and performance was bad, but it's stretching to a bit to claim the FA Cup final was one of the worst days ever!
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His last minute winner against the Boggies, and the celebratory singing to "Vindaloo" on the final whistle, was one of my favourite Villa memories.
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I wonder if it will open doors for him in a way, maybe the normal punditry route (as he is eloquent and endearingly foreign-brummie) would be an ideal outcome, not making a 'thing' of it.
Alternatively I do wonder about a role as some sort of inclusion officer/ambassador for our club the FA/German FA etc. not that he should have to make something of it, but just an interesting thought.
I have to say am sick of hearing homophobic comments still at Football, and think I may take this as a confidence boost to challenge a fellow Villa fan if I ever hear some abuse. I've risked challenging racism before and things have got to change.
Here's to the day it's not news anymore.
Thomas Hitzlsperger is already a respected figure in German football. He writes an intelligent, provocative column for the newspaper Die Zeit and a few years ago he was given a prestigious award for his stand on racism in football. His opinion carries weight and his coming-out could do a lot of good.
Sadly, football crowds (not individual supporters) are the last stronghold of racism, xenophobia and homophobia. As an English member of the German Villans I was disgusted as recently as last summer to hear the Villa fans, guests in Bochum, chanting "Ten German Bombers". Thomas's statement has been applauded here and in Germany, but he'll never have to face a football crowd. I fear that it will be some time before the first gay player is able to come out, but today's news is a significant step on a long road.
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Blues fan here tommy good luck to you fella,although it shouldn't really be an issue these days to be honest,it takes some bollox to do what you have done,good luck for the future chap in whatever you do...
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Thomas Hitzlsperger is already a respected figure in German football. He writes an intelligent, provocative column for the newspaper Die Zeit and a few years ago he was given a prestigious award for his stand on racism in football. His opinion carries weight and his coming-out could do a lot of good.
Sadly, football crowds (not individual supporters) are the last stronghold of racism, xenophobia and homophobia. As an English member of the German Villans I was disgusted as recently as last summer to hear the Villa fans, guests in Bochum, chanting "Ten German Bombers". Thomas's statement has been applauded here and in Germany, but he'll never have to face a football crowd. I fear that it will be some time before the first gay player is able to come out, but today's news is a significant step on a long road.
To be fair it was a small number of Villa fans singing the anti-Germany stuff and I think more Villa fans joined in with chants to drown them out. Still very embarrassing though. Two German Villa fans in front of me smiled - I cringed.
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Good luck to Der Hammer
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I vaguely remember reading something about his girlfriend arranging to bring some of his relatives over for his 21st birthday or something similar. Who cares if he's had girlfriends in the past, and, what they looked like? I know a few gay men who didn't feel comfortable coming out in their younger years.
Some posters have mentioned many of us are happy to congratulate ourselves on being liberal minded. Considering there's also been a discussion on Karren Brady's looks recently, until some of the puerile comments cease I don't think we should get too self congratulatory. Hopefully in the not too different future our actions will match what we claim to be our beliefs.
Anyway, hope he has a happy life.
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John Fashanu used to get a lot of homophobic stick from certain quarters about his brother every time we played against Wimbledon. Until we signed him, at which point he just used to get stick for being toss.
I think John Fashanu used to be every bit as homophobic to his brother then anyone else was.
The day we signed John Fashanu must rate as one of my worst days in following Villa, not far off relegation in 87 or the 2000 FA Cup Final.
Ditto, only time i wrote a letter of complaint to the club. I heard him interviewed on the excellent Danny Kelly 'Days of our lives' on TS, he still has issues about his brother and homosexuals, still denied his brother was gay.
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Good luck to you, Tommy. I hope this gives courage to others.
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The first thing that sprung to mind when I read this was pretty much what Frank covered above.
He is already very well respected for breaking down barriers in respect of his work re England and Germany. This could take things to another level of consciousness for something else that needs changing in the game.
The second was an extension of what Frank says about how football is still one of the last bastions of everything that isnt PC, for want of a better phrase, still having a home.
I was minded of Tony Soprano wanting to let bygones be bygones with a Captain in his family who was murdered as being gay was against Mafia rules.
He bollocks his replacement one day with "Maybe you should suck a cock as Vito brought in 3 times what you did on construction".
That really is how inconsequential it should be.
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Great player, great bloke, wish he had come out a few months earlier I would have voted for him to be sports personality of the year. Very brave thing to do
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Good on you Tommy. Makes no difference to how I perceive the man or the player, I hope that it encourages others.
I think that on a supporting level, it would take the most universally adored footballer, someone of the likes Messi to come out to really make a 'it's really no big deal' type statement.
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I wonder if it will open doors for him in a way, maybe the normal punditry route (as he is eloquent and endearingly foreign-brummie) would be an ideal outcome, not making a 'thing' of it.
Alternatively I do wonder about a role as some sort of inclusion officer/ambassador for our club the FA/German FA etc. not that he should have to make something of it, but just an interesting thought.
I have to say am sick of hearing homophobic comments still at Football, and think I may take this as a confidence boost to challenge a fellow Villa fan if I ever hear some abuse. I've risked challenging racism before and things have got to change.
Here's to the day it's not news anymore.
Thomas Hitzlsperger is already a respected figure in German football. He writes an intelligent, provocative column for the newspaper Die Zeit and a few years ago he was given a prestigious award for his stand on racism in football. His opinion carries weight and his coming-out could do a lot of good.
Sadly, football crowds (not individual supporters) are the last stronghold of racism, xenophobia and homophobia. As an English member of the German Villans I was disgusted as recently as last summer to hear the Villa fans, guests in Bochum, chanting "Ten German Bombers". Thomas's statement has been applauded here and in Germany, but he'll never have to face a football crowd. I fear that it will be some time before the first gay player is able to come out, but today's news is a significant step on a long road.
Thanks, that's enlighteming and great to read, must catch up with my Villa best mate in Munich!
Without going too far off topic - still on the theme of stigma in football (and being a mental health professional myself) – can I ask you Frank has there been much impact following the suicide the German Keeper Robert Enke in 2009? It always seemed a golden opportunity to really face some issues in our society & football but I’m not sure if that was ever seized?
To link the two together a little, as part of a trip a few years back, in a small way we highlighted a London mental health football project out in Uganda*, I'm going to get a feel of reaction to Tommy there from some contacts, they are so Premiership obsessed.
You may have noticed before Christmas that the Ugandan Parliament voted to a new act, including to imprison a same sex couple that touches each other, and imprison someone who doesn’t report gay people. If you indeed you do feel strongly about this issue it’s not too late to add to the opposition to try and stop it getting the final rubber stamp https://www.allout.org/en/actions/uganda-now
*Also a public promise before I go away/offline for 4months in April, I’ll put up some info about that trip and pics of the shirts in action, as a horribly belated thanks to those that donated Villa shirts to Uganda all that time ago. Also watched my second team SC Villa finally, on my last trip to Kamapla :)
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Happy he is associated with our club and the reaction of our fans. Good for him.
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He deserves and will get the praise his honesty deserves. He is a good bloke and I wish him well. At times like this I wish we were not so self congratulatory while other aspects of human behaviour continue to be met with bigotry.
I shall hang out the bunting when people who are fat, people who are uneducated, people who are poor, people who are dirty, people who are without work, people who are alcohol or substance dependent, people sleeping in the streets - are treated as perfectly legitimate members of the human race as we now, absolutely rightly, consider gay people to be.
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Without going too far off topic - still on the theme of stigma in football (and being a mental health professional myself) – can I ask you Frank has there been much impact following the suicide the German Keeper Robert Enke in 2009? It always seemed a golden opportunity to really face some issues in our society & football but I’m not sure if that was ever seized?
Enke's death provoked great concern at the time and increased public awareness of mental health issues. There's always a danger that such cases will be forgotten after the initial shock, but the foundation set up by Enke's wife in his name is working tirelessly to promote the cause. They've made some progress, though perhaps the public understanding of the problem still isn't as great as they might have wished after 4 years.
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He deserves and will get the praise his honesty deserves. He is a good bloke and I wish him well. At times like this I wish we were not so self congratulatory while other aspects of human behaviour continue to be met with bigotry.
I shall hang out the bunting when people who are fat, people who are uneducated, people who are poor, people who are dirty, people who are without work, people who are alcohol or substance dependent, people sleeping in the streets - are treated as perfectly legitimate members of the human race as we now, absolutely rightly, consider gay people to be.
Couldn't have put it better myself, except you forgot the mentally ill!
Unfortunately we'll all be long gone before that day occurs; if indeed it ever comes. It's human nature to have predudices, it's just that some are more extreme than others.
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One of my favourite Villa players of recent times. I've always wished him the best. Him and his Brummie accent!
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One of my favourite players of the past twenty years. Good man, Thomas, and best of luck.
Same for me. He left abruptly and it was a shame he never got a proper send off, wonder if the club will invite him back in the near future?
I can see this being a trend now of players retiring, moving away from the football environment (Hitz said when he retired in Sept that he was disillusioned with football) and then the ones that are are gay will out themselves. Why risk the amount of abuse you'd get as despite pretty much all of us on this fourm being cool with this, you just know a partisan home end would have a different take on things at most grounds across the country.
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He pulled a villa shirt on and gave it everything he could, so I don't give a toss if he would of come out 5 mins before a game and told us he was gay,good luck to him
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His last minute winner against the Boggies, and the celebratory singing to "Vindaloo" on the final whistle, was one of my favourite Villa memories.
Me too. Gay? I was fucking ecstatic!
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I don't know who tweets for H&V but:
Can we say well done to Thomas Hitzlsperger for finally admitting that he played for #avfc. It must have taken a lot of courage.
is very funny.
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Nothing to do with us.
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Isn't this connected to H&V?
https://twitter.com/thevillafanzine
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Best wishes to Tommy.
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Can I just thank Lizz and Brian Green for putting into words, my thoughts and feelings far better than I could have done myself.
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Isn't this connected to H&V?
https://twitter.com/thevillafanzine
Ouch. Yes. Sorry. I missed that. I genuinely do not understand Twitter. All the posts that I put on our FB page get automatically added to my HVLegion Twitter feed but after that I'm lost.
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It's a real shame that in 2014 that we still have to say things like "brave" and "courage", when in reality it shouldn't matter one jot. In fact his, or indeed any current or past player's, sexuality is completely irrelevant to me. What they do in the privacy of their own personal lives has no bearing on how I judge them as someone wearing the colours of my team.
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Isn't this connected to H&V?
https://twitter.com/thevillafanzine
Ouch. Yes. Sorry. I missed that. I genuinely do not understand Twitter. All the posts that I put on our FB page get automatically added to my HVLegion Twitter feed but after that I'm lost.
No problem, I don't understand it either. It was retweeted by https://twitter.com/saveUKjustice (plug plug) and seen by my wife there, who showed it to me. It's a small virtual world.
As a result, she now accepts that this isn't a site (just) populated by sad losers.
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I think its sad that it makes major news whenever a sportsman/actor/singer etc comes out. Personally, I don't think its anything to do with these nosey journalists. The "live reaction" thread on the Daily Mirror website says it all really.
Good luck Thomas.
Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our liberalism, let's remember the countless Mark Lawrenson comments.
Very true. And that vile homophobic Matt Upson song we used to sing not so long ago to great glee from supporters is a stain on our club.
Not to mention the Tracie Andrews songs too.
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News Thump are reporting it as Thomas Hitzlsperger comes out as ‘Brummie’.
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No,the conversation on here ages ago made me think long and hard about my opinions and I realised the error of my former ways.It was quite weird,just after that infamous thread my favorite cousin"came out" and it made me realise what a wanker id been,let me use this to say sorry for offending any fellow H + Vers.I was wrong.
This is good spk. I was in a similar position about 10 years ago. Yes I laughed and joked about all the homosexual innuendoes out there. I don't need to repeat those as I am sure everyone on here is well aware. It was only when one of my colleagues at work declared that he was gay I realised the shameful state of my mind and attitude. I went through a cleansing process that made me hopefully a better human being.
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Some posters have mentioned many of us are happy to congratulate ourselves on being liberal minded. Considering there's also been a discussion on Karren Brady's looks recently, until some of the puerile comments cease I don't think we should get too self congratulatory. Hopefully in the not too different future our actions will match what we claim to be our beliefs.
Very good point Lizz. You can not be selective latitudinarian.
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I wonder if the fear factor of professional footballers who are gay is overstated. I would like to think, and I am sure that this would the case, that if an opposing player announced before a match at Villa Park that he was gay then the support he would receive by the majority of the crowd would drown out the moronic chants. After a while and as more admitted their sexuality it would become I am sure, a shrug of the shoulder response.
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Cheers mate !
No,the conversation on here ages ago made me think long and hard about my opinions and I realised the error of my former ways.It was quite weird,just after that infamous thread my favorite cousin"came out" and it made me realise what a wanker id been,let me use this to say sorry for offending any fellow H + Vers.I was wrong.
This is good spk. I was in a similar position about 10 years ago. Yes I laughed and joked about all the homosexual innuendoes out there. I don't need to repeat those as I am sure everyone on here is well aware. It was only when one of my colleagues at work declared that he was gay I realised the shameful state of my mind and attitude. I went through a cleansing process that made me hopefully a better human being.
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If only Lawro had Der Hammer's courage.
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Der Hammer, Quality Footballer, oh and he's Gay, and?
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For a horrible moment I thought he was coming out as blues fan!
You Bad boy, but yes strewth , now that would be Taboo ???
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Fair play Der Hammer, shoooot
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
Why make a fuss, it's no big deal really is it?
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
Why make a fuss, it's no big deal really is it?
No it isn't, but when you see some of the absolute drivel posted by players on twitter you'd imagine news of a former teammate coming out might elicit at least a message of support in 140 characters or less.
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Interview in English here
and the same in German here
It was always obvious Tommy was a smart lad but the more I read and hear from him, the more I fear he's far too intelligent to be a pundit on BBC/ITV/Sky/wherever.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
I thought Ian Taylor might have said something...
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
I thought Ian Taylor might have said something...
Steve Staunton has I think.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
I thought Ian Taylor might have said something...
Why?
He's not obliged to, and just because he hasn't doesn't mean he has a problem. Maybe he has sent him a personal message of support (if he didn't already know), or maybe they aren't mates in the sense that they were merely colleagues for a few years.
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Has The Scum done a 'Der Bummer' headline yet?
It's pretty sad that in this day and age this is so news worthy. Hopefully in the not too distant future no one will be bothered what sexuality someone is. Tommy has always struck me as a good guy so hopefully he gets no grief and can crack on with enjoying life. I miss his accent, it was ace.
As for ex players commenting, to be honest if someone I had worked with 10 years ago came out as gay I wouldn't get in touch with them about it unless we were still friends.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
I thought Ian Taylor might have said something...
Why?
He's not obliged to, and just because he hasn't doesn't mean he has a problem. Maybe he has sent him a personal message of support (if he didn't already know), or maybe they aren't mates in the sense that they were merely colleagues for a few years.
Of course, nobody is obliged to say anything.
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I had many confusing dreams about taking showers after a match with David Ginola during his time here. Does that make me gay?
:P
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Some posters have mentioned many of us are happy to congratulate ourselves on being liberal minded. Considering there's also been a discussion on Karren Brady's looks recently, until some of the puerile comments cease I don't think we should get too self congratulatory. Hopefully in the not too different future our actions will match what we claim to be our beliefs.
Very good point Lizz. You can not be selective latitudinarian.
Using phrases like 'first touch of a rapist' are as bad as any homophobic comments. Guess its a process, I'm old enough to remember mass monkey chants from the Holte
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Other than possibly putting something on Twitter, you'll find that any of his ex-Villa teammates that say anything to the press will have been appraoched by them to do so.
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Regarding the comments/chants towards Lawrenson, Le Saux, Upson et al, I think it's because they are NOT gay that people feel that they can abuse them.
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It's probably chants/comments towards then that make gay footballers feel they have to hide it.
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It's probably chants/comments towards then that make gay footballers feel they have to hide it.
Until a high-profile current player comes out then we'll never know. I actually think that there would be a huge amount of goodwill and support for that player when it does happen.
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I wouldn't be surprised if instead of a high-profile player coming out, we'll sooner get a young player whose been out the whole time working his way up.
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Best wishes to Tommy Hitz. Sadly I can't see any current high profile player ever coming out in the near future but maybe by Tommy's example a few more retired players will, which will be a small step in the right direction. The sooner it becomes a non-issue the better.
As for him having a girlfriend/wife a few years ago, it's nothing new, a lot of gay men and women don't fully realise their true sexuality until their 20's or 30's.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
Why make a fuss, it's no big deal really is it?
No it isn't, but when you see some of the absolute drivel posted by players on twitter you'd imagine news of a former teammate coming out might elicit at least a message of support in 140 characters or less.
Some have
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10558636/Thomas-Hitzlsperger-thanks-everyone-for-support-as-former-Chelsea-defender-Alex-makes-anti-gay-comments.html
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Best wishes to Tommy Hitz. Sadly I can't see any current high profile player ever coming out in the near future but maybe by Tommy's example a few more retired players will, which will be a small step in the right direction. The sooner it becomes a non-issue the better.
As for him having a girlfriend/wife a few years ago, it's nothing new, a lot of gay men and women don't fully realise their true sexuality until their 20's or 30's.
I'm 28, and last year was the first time I made a salad and brought it to work for lunch. I'd never been interested in losing weight before granted, but I do it regularly now. You are never too old to learn something new about yourself.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
Why make a fuss, it's no big deal really is it?
No it isn't, but when you see some of the absolute drivel posted by players on twitter you'd imagine news of a former teammate coming out might elicit at least a message of support in 140 characters or less.
Some have
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10558636/Thomas-Hitzlsperger-thanks-everyone-for-support-as-former-Chelsea-defender-Alex-makes-anti-gay-comments.html
Joey Barton there. A man who put a cigar out on someones face, assaulted a team mate and punched a 15 year old talking about 'Society', and 'shame on us all'
Fuck off Joey.
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He's consistent if nothing else is Joey. That's the only adjective without an expletive in front of it I can write about him.
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I've not seen any of the players who were of the same villa era come out (!) in support of hitz, which is a bit disappointing perhaps?
Why make a fuss, it's no big deal really is it?
No it isn't, but when you see some of the absolute drivel posted by players on twitter you'd imagine news of a former teammate coming out might elicit at least a message of support in 140 characters or less.
Some have
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10558636/Thomas-Hitzlsperger-thanks-everyone-for-support-as-former-Chelsea-defender-Alex-makes-anti-gay-comments.html
Joey Barton there. A man who put a cigar out on someones face, assaulted a team mate and punched a 15 year old talking about 'Society', and 'shame on us all'
Fuck off Joey.
Not to mention calling someone a ladyboy.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Read that earlier. Dose'nt surprise me that Savage played a part in it.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Read that earlier. Dose'nt surprise me that Savage played a part in it.
Have to say, the image Le Saux has conjured of a couple of hundred irate gay clubbers chasing down Robbie Fowler and beating the shit out of him made me chuckle quite a bit.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
What a fantastic read, well written and heartfelt. The stick Le Saux received is just mind boggling yet he's not even gay! Shame on anyone whoever dishes out homophobic insults.
Robbie Fowler really is a disgusting individual, the same applies to Robbie Savage. I'd love for someone to pull the latter up for it on his 606 phone in show.
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We are getting there with racism. throwing bananas and shouting stuff like Paki or black bastard is now seen as unacceptable. Unfortunately a shouted homophobic remark is more than likely going to be met with laughter rather than condemnation, but we will get there eventually hope.
My brother is gay, he took a lot of abuse in his teenage years before finding a group of more accepting friends. I once had a stand up fight with a Free Church Minister in The Highlands after he had a go at my brother saying that homosexuality is a sin and my brother would rot in hell. The minister won, one hell of a right hook on him.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.
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That Le Saux piece is a very good read. Thanks for posting it.
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Excellent piece by Graeme Le Saux. Says a lot about the culture of football and the people who play it. I wonder if it is that much different a couple of decades on?
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.
It's astonishing isn't it? Some of those Le Saux has mentioned are now high profile pundits, Savage and Fowler for instance, they need to be bought up on this I reckon.
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I thought it was interesting that Le Saux named them, and quite correct too - they don't deserve anonymity.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
I like to think that, in general, H&V has a more accepting and mature membership than most football forums. I feel we've proved that over many years and many debates.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.
It's astonishing isn't it? Some of those Le Saux has mentioned are now high profile pundits, Savage and Fowler for instance, they need to be bought up on this I reckon.
Le Saux was on radio 4 this morning ( don't read anything into the fact that I listen to Radio 4) and he said that Fowler apologised to him recently and he accepted it.
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Trying to protect his pundit career then. What Fowler did whether Le Saux was gay or not gay was sickening and I thought so at the time.
Der Hammer didnt have to go through what Le Saux did. And he wasnt gay. Fowler should be kicked off the BBC with immense haste.
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A really honest and moving piece of writing.
Le Saux being intelligent and not falling into the stereotype of his fellow "professionals" seemed to be his big sin. And he's right to name names. Yes, it would be interesting to see how Savage responds when the subject is inevitably raised on 606.
I have seen similar almost every day of my teaching career and am amazed at how such attitudes are so ingrained in our society that they are considered totally acceptable by so many "innocent " youngsters, even some of my colleagues.
There's still a long way to go but I like to think we are getting there, albeit slowly.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.
It's astonishing isn't it? Some of those Le Saux has mentioned are now high profile pundits, Savage and Fowler for instance, they need to be bought up on this I reckon.
Apparently Robbie Fowler send Le Saux a written apology a couple of months ago.
Doesn't make it right, but at least people are seeing the error of their ways.
Edit: as Chico has already pointed out above.
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See also spk of this very parish.
If we can educate just one or two bigots then we are doing well,
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Just compare the reaction to Hitz's coming out to that which greeted Justin Fashanu and I think we can safely say that times have changed, and significantly for the better.
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I see the ex Blues player Michael Johnson has quit an FA advisory panel on anti discrimination because it came to light that just last year he claimed he wouldn't back an FA anti homophobia initiative because he found homosexuality "despicable". Yet he's got the nerve to say he'll still carry on his work on anti discrimination.
The mind boggles!
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Trying to protect his pundit career then. What Fowler did whether Le Saux was gay or not gay was sickening and I thought so at the time.
Der Hammer didnt have to go through what Le Saux did. And he wasnt gay. Fowler should be kicked off the BBC with immense haste.
A cynic may suggest he apologised just to protect his new job as a pundit on the BBC.
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Trying to protect his pundit career then. What Fowler did whether Le Saux was gay or not gay was sickening and I thought so at the time.
Der Hammer didnt have to go through what Le Saux did. And he wasnt gay. Fowler should be kicked off the BBC with immense haste.
A cynic may suggest he apologised just to protect his new job as a pundit on the BBC.
Maybe, but if Le Saux can accept it as genuine then perhaps we should too.
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I see the ex Blues player Michael Johnson has quit an FA advisory panel on anti discrimination because it came to light that just last year he claimed he wouldn't back an FA anti homophobia initiative because he found homosexuality "despicable". Yet he's got the nerve to say he'll still carry on his work on anti discrimination.
The mind boggles!
In fairness, he's saying his opinions have now changed, which if true is great. It wouldn't be a bad thing if all bigots suddenly saw the light.
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The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.
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I never liked Le Saux as a player but that is a truly moving article.
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Great article that Le Saux one. Not least because I suspect many people will have thrown comments like that players without 'really' meaning it, not really knowing how horrible is must feel.
I know for my shame I used to join in the chants to john Fashanu about his brother. And I'm not homophobic at all. But as le saux said you'd never dream of doing similarly about a black player
I'm glad I've grown up now. And hopefully we've moved on but there's still a long way to go clearly
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
The thing is O_V the acid test is if in a gathering of non gay people a quip remark is made would people there have the courage to say out of order? When that happens then the war is won. Same applies to racist stuff that people should be prepared to challenge and it's not always white on dark.
The religious angle bewilders me most. Alex apparently said God created Adam and Eve for a reason and religious view is that we are all created by the almighty if so then he/she also created Thomas. Why don't they accept that?
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The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.
Sorry. seems I'm the only one still talking about Tommy. As you were.
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I like to think that, in general, H&V has a more accepting and mature membership than most football forums. I feel we've proved that over many years and many debates.
This is correct Mr Cooper and I think yourself and likes of Mr Woodhall set a very good example. (even though he does sound like a bit of an autocrat)
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Robbie Fowler really is a disgusting individual, the same applies to Robbie Savage. I'd love for someone to pull the latter up for it on his 606 phone in show.
And so say all of us.
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Can they not change, mature, and accept their behaviour was unacceptable? It would be a sad day if we were all condemned forever for actions or opinions we'd left behind.
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Saw this posted on facebook yesterday, very interesting read
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/graeme-le-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Crikey, that's a pretty moving read.
It's astonishing isn't it? Some of those Le Saux has mentioned are now high profile pundits, Savage and Fowler for instance, they need to be bought up on this I reckon.
And Townsend too. Hope he has apologised for stupidity.
Savage was a headless chicken bellend WUM. Fowler just an obnoxious Scally Scumbag - never ever as good as he or the media thought he was.
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Can they not change, mature, and accept their behaviour was unacceptable? It would be a sad day if we were all condemned forever for actions or opinions we'd left behind.
They certainly can after 15 years. Have they? It seems Fowler doesn't think he did anything wrong anyway. Why should he?
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Not yet read the Le Saux piece but what was the reason for oiks like Fowler to make fun of him - because he was educated and read the Guardian or something?
Fowler shouldn't even be on MOTD. His "analysis" is by far the poorest of any of their pundits. I thought Hamann especially showed him up and even Lineker the other day when the two were waxing lyrical about Yaya Toure's goalscoring record while Hamann pointed out all the times he goes missing when Citeh don't have the ball. Nice to see someone clearly qualified to talk about the game and not just pander to popular perceptions.
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The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.
Sorry. seems I'm the only one still talking about Tommy. As you were.
You were grumbling as per. People's accents and sexualities sometimes change, just gotta to accept it innit.
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That article reveals a colossal failure at every level. From teammates through to the FA not one person stood up for him and everyone happily piled on. It makes you look at yourself as well and over the years what you might have considered as a bit of a laugh when in fact is derogatory and shameful. We've all probably been a bit immature, I certainly include myself in that. I hope that nobody I know has ever resorted to that kind of abuse or come remotely close to it.
It does make you wonder where it comes from? Where does it say it is acceptable to say or do those things? And when should someone take a stand, or take a stand on someone else's behalf? A lot of it is brushed aside as the culture within the game. Old views that have not progressed, be it players or managers or FA suits. Look at what Ron Atkinson was caught saying off camera. It wouldn't have been the first time he'll have used that language, maybe the first time he got caught. There's also a case in progress in the NFL involving two Miami Dolphins players where one is accused of bullying the other. It likely happens at some level in every sport and quite possibly as much as it does in everyday society.
I'm glad Le Saux found the strength to talk about this and I hope in some way it has helped over the years to improve matters. I'm also glad he called out the wankers like Savage, Fowler, Ince and even our former captain Townsend for being the weak minded men that they are. Very sad really.
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Trying to protect his pundit career then. What Fowler did whether Le Saux was gay or not gay was sickening and I thought so at the time.
Der Hammer didnt have to go through what Le Saux did. And he wasnt gay. Fowler should be kicked off the BBC with immense haste.
A cynic may suggest he apologised just to protect his new job as a pundit on the BBC.
That is what I have said above . And Savage has sent a letter of apology. Hadnt got the guts to say it face to face. Both of these two jokers
'apologised' years after the event. Ince apparently has not and he of all people should know better.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
Why do you say the Church is hypocritical?
My understanding is that the mainstream Christian churches welcome homosexuals but view practising homosexuality as a sin. Of course this is a belief which maybe unacceptable but I don't think it's hypocritical.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
Why do you say the Church is hypocritical?
My understanding is that the mainstream Christian churches welcome homosexuals but view practising homosexuality as a sin. Of course this is a belief which maybe unacceptable but I don't think it's hypocritical.
I'd guess that Oldham Villa might be seeing hypocrisy in, say, the catholic church pontificating about homosexuality, whilst at the same time aiding and abetting paedophiles amongst their own ranks by doing everything in their power to cover up cases of abuse.
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Interesting read about Le Saux there. It seemed like he was ostracized as much as anything, for being intelligent. That's a shame in itself in football, but for players to then pick up on that and translate it to him being a "poof" was very sad, and only enforced the fact that some of those aforementioned players were dumb as a bag of spanners. Disappointed to hear about Townsend in that article. He always struck me as a decent guy, but seems even he could take things too far. Maybe it was a Chelsea mentality? I dunno, they seem to have had a lot of knobheads in their squad over the years, and still do.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
Why do you say the Church is hypocritical?
My understanding is that the mainstream Christian churches welcome homosexuals but view practising homosexuality as a sin. Of course this is a belief which maybe unacceptable but I don't think it's hypocritical.
I'd guess that Oldham Villa might be seeing hypocrisy in, say, the catholic church pontificating about homosexuality, whilst at the same time aiding and abetting paedophiles amongst their own ranks by doing everything in their power to cover up cases of abuse.
I don't think the Catholic Church's aim is to aid and abet paedophiles but is more to protect it's own status. Either way it's criminal activity and should be investigated and the guilty have the book thrown at them.
Probably best leaving religion and politics out of this as I think we all agree on the sentiment that being a gay footballer ought to be no big deal and it's a great pity that many have suffered through a fear of abuse.
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You cannot leave out politics and certainly not religion from the condemnation of homophobic abuse.
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Fair play PC
I'm gay myself, but play football, get involved in active stuff. I've learned to turn a blind eye to humorous quips, and can take a joke. Hopefully one day things will improve. The church don't help, as demonstrated in your post, the hypocritical bastards.
It's affected my life, as I'm not sure I've accepted it, but hey ho. I just try to get on with travel and other stuff.
Very pleasing to read so many mature posts on here, fair play to you all :-)
Why do you say the Church is hypocritical?
My understanding is that the mainstream Christian churches welcome homosexuals but view practising homosexuality as a sin. Of course this is a belief which maybe unacceptable but I don't think it's hypocritical.
I'd guess that Oldham Villa might be seeing hypocrisy in, say, the catholic church pontificating about homosexuality, whilst at the same time aiding and abetting paedophiles amongst their own ranks by doing everything in their power to cover up cases of abuse.
I don't think the Catholic Church's aim is to aid and abet paedophiles but is more to protect it's own status. Either way it's criminal activity and should be investigated and the guilty have the book thrown at them.
Probably best leaving religion and politics out of this as I think we all agree on the sentiment that being a gay footballer ought to be no big deal and it's a great pity that many have suffered through a fear of abuse.
Agree with your last point, but just to be clear I wasn't claiming that their actual goal was to aid and abet paedophiles, but that's exactly what happened due to their actions. And they certainly should be brought to account, I'm just not sure that they are being as cooperative as they could be, even now.
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In defence of Andy Townsend, didn't he just take the piss for reading the Guardian? There's no mention of anything else.
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The religious angle bewilders me most. Alex apparently said God created Adam and Eve for a reason and religious view is that we are all created by the almighty if so then he/she also created Thomas. Why don't they accept that?
I think, in many but obviously not all cases, people use religion as an excuse for their bigotry.
This is where I find many religious people to be hypocritical, they say that religion and the Bible is there to provide a moral guideline to how we should live our lives yet will openly condemn homosexuality because the Bible says it's a sin. If they are going to pick and choose which bits they think we should be using then surely, as most civilized society now accepts homosexuality as perfectly okay, religious people should be going out of their way to be accepting of it also, and that should be one of the bits of the Bible that they can dismiss as "wrong and outdated" like the bits on slavery and wife-beating.
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In defence of Andy Townsend, didn't he just take the piss for reading the Guardian? There's no mention of anything else.
He took the piss for being 'not one of the lads' or being different. Isn't that the whole point - we shouldn't abuse those who not like 'us - black, gay, muslim or whatever?
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In defence of Andy Townsend, didn't he just take the piss for reading the Guardian? There's no mention of anything else.
Townsend has always struck me as a fairly OK bloke, but chances are that if it was going on in a team he was part of he'd probably be at least guilty of laughing along with it.
About the church thing - does anyone who's talking about their attitudes towards homesexuality actually go to church?
I do and as an example when the gay marriage debate was going on, our parish priest spoke about it to the congregation. The basic message, which is effectively the company line passed down, is that the there is no issue with gay people and they welcome them into the church. However, they do hold the sacrament of marriage as sacred, with one man marrying one woman for the purpose of childbirth.
I couldn't disagree more with the 2nd part and it has so many holes in it you could drain lettuce, but the first part is a refreshingly modern approach that most would not credit them for. They still have a long way to go on many topics, and those who find religion bizarre will always do so, but lets not label them with being stuck in the dark ages without actually listening to their more recent thoughts on homesexuality.
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It's not 'the church' so much as religion. Different religions have varying attitudes, but the malign influence of the preachings of bigoted clergy has obviously been felt.
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Interesting read about Le Saux there. It seemed like he was ostracized as much as anything, for being intelligent. That's a shame in itself in football, but for players to then pick up on that and translate it to him being a "poof" was very sad, and only enforced the fact that some of those aforementioned players were dumb as a bag of spanners. Disappointed to hear about Townsend in that article. He always struck me as a decent guy, but seems even he could take things too far. Maybe it was a Chelsea mentality? I dunno, they seem to have had a lot of knobheads in their squad over the years, and still do.
According to Cant'scorino, Townsend, Wise and Jones ran things during his time there.
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It's not 'the church' so much as religion. Different religions have varying attitudes, but the malign influence of the preachings of bigoted clergy has obviously been felt.
True and I'm only speaking from the perspective of the Catholic faith, but having been raised as a one and now being 38, I can honestly say I've never heard a priest, either privately or publicly, say anything homophobic.
My point being that are we assuming that the church is homophobic or actually speaking from experience or knowledge of something either read or seen? Other than quoting passages of the bible, of course. To me it's like going back to the 70s or 80s and someone saying "All football fans are hooligans" without ever having actually gone to a game.
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It's not 'the church' so much as religion. Different religions have varying attitudes, but the malign influence of the preachings of bigoted clergy has obviously been felt.
True and I'm only speaking from the perspective of the Catholic faith, but having been raised as a one and now being 38, I can honestly say I've never heard a priest, either privately or publicly, say anything homophobic.
My point being that are we assuming that the church is homophobic or actually speaking from experience or knowledge of something either read or seen? Other than quoting passages of the bible, of course. To me it's like going back to the 70s or 80s and someone saying "All football fans are hooligans" without ever having actually gone to a game.
The Bible is, as you allude to, a problem. I wasn't raised religious but I went to church schools with services twice a week, and I can confirm that nothing homophobic was said. However, two caveats: firstly, homophobic stuff hasn' t been preached against openly to any great extent in this country for a very long time and not out of ecumenicism, but because 'we don't talk about those sorts of things'; secondly, there are places in the world where many religions (and I'm sorry to say, despite the new pontiff, your church as well) have a really poisonous influence on the lives of local homosexual populations, whose lives are made a misery by the faithful.
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About the church thing - does anyone who's talking about their attitudes towards homesexuality actually go to church?
I do and as an example when the gay marriage debate was going on, our parish priest spoke about it to the congregation. The basic message, which is effectively the company line passed down, is that the there is no issue with gay people and they welcome them into the church.
I should have said that I am aware that most churches welcome gay people.
The problem I have is that they never go out of their way to tell people! Church leaders allow bigots to spout hatred in the name of religion and rarely do you hear any of them saying how they disagree.
Church leaders could do a heck of a lot to move this debate forward, but they won't.
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It's not 'the church' so much as religion. Different religions have varying attitudes, but the malign influence of the preachings of bigoted clergy has obviously been felt.
True and I'm only speaking from the perspective of the Catholic faith, but having been raised as a one and now being 38, I can honestly say I've never heard a priest, either privately or publicly, say anything homophobic.
My point being that are we assuming that the church is homophobic or actually speaking from experience or knowledge of something either read or seen? Other than quoting passages of the bible, of course. To me it's like going back to the 70s or 80s and someone saying "All football fans are hooligans" without ever having actually gone to a game.
The Bible is, as you allude to, a problem. I wasn't raised religious but I went to church schools with services twice a week, and I can confirm that nothing homophobic was said. However, two caveats: firstly, homophobic stuff hasn' t been preached against openly to any great extent in this country for a very long time and not out of ecumenicism, but because 'we don't talk about those sorts of things'; secondly, there are places in the world where many religions (and I'm sorry to say, despite the new pontiff, your church as well) have a really poisonous influence on the lives of local homosexual populations, whose lives are made a misery by the faithful.
Yes, this does happen. To me, It's an example of what Plumbutt mentioned - people using religion as an excuse for their own bigotry.
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Oh of course. It's also bigots using a bully pulpit to infect the minds of the poor and under-educated who have never met a gay person in their life and would probably change their minds if they did.
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About the church thing - does anyone who's talking about their attitudes towards homesexuality actually go to church?
I do and as an example when the gay marriage debate was going on, our parish priest spoke about it to the congregation. The basic message, which is effectively the company line passed down, is that the there is no issue with gay people and they welcome them into the church.
I should have said that I am aware that most churches welcome gay people.
The problem I have is that they never go out of their way to tell people! Church leaders allow bigots to spout hatred in the name of religion and rarely do you hear any of them saying how they disagree.
Church leaders could do a heck of a lot to move this debate forward, but they won't.
There are quite a few subjects they don't touch on and skirt around, but yes, their actual attitude towards gay people could be better publicised instead of being swallowed up in the general 'God welcomes all' mantra.
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The thing that saddened me the most listening to him speak was that his Brummie accent has gone. Traitor.
Sorry. seems I'm the only one still talking about Tommy. As you were.
Shall we ask our Tommy if we are off topic? ;)
"I'm coming out about my homosexuality because I want to move the discussion about homosexuality among professional sportspeople forwards"
But yeah, a shame tis gone :/
And leaving out religion and politics??? We've done this to death on other threads, bizarre ideas around how anti-racism isn't political, Villa opposing fascism in Nazi Germany, we were of course we were founded by Christians, should we ban discussion of these parts of our history?
So anyway, on with the debate a former much loved Villa player has deliberately stimulated...
We are a Christian founded club, yet, I don't know how a "traditional" Christian approach *isn't* hypocritical or homophobic. To say you are welcome as long as you don't express your sexuality in an appropriate way is hypocritical for me.
I can imagine there could be a non-hypocritical answer to that, e.g. trying to be not hateful to a pedophile whilst abhoring expression of that, but for me the Church is deeply hypocritical on this one, you just *can't* reconcile parts of the bible. I've met practicing gay Christian ministers who are just left to operate on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis. In fact i know some hilarious stories from gay friends of our clergy's activity but that's not for here!
Thanks to whoever it was who pointed out that not all religions are homophobic.
I'm being ordained into a Buddhist Order this year. I will actually miss the end of our season and the entire world cup (saves watching England bomb out) but can take in the Barca derby maybe before a 4month retreat in Spain and will come back with a 'funny' name (!).
I wasn't looking for a religion when I started mediating years ago, but would never have get involved with a spiritual tradition that didn't allow natural morality (working out what is right for ourselves based on sound principles rather than rules) rather than going along with some conventional morality and bizarre rules.
I've always tried to think for myself even when it mean being accused of being gay at school for opposing an "all gays should be shot" comment...
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
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My sides are splitting.
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Is it school holidays already?
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
Is that some kind of poem?
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Shall we have a book on what team the troll supports?
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It's refreshing to read the free thinking that goes on here, including some people being given the space to be challenged and change.
How does an "Ex-Villa manager in prison for being gay" (http://www.queerty.com/fugitive-chris-mubiru-arrested-in-uganda-over-gay-sex-photos-20131216/) headline grab you?
I've been getting sensible views from contacts in Uganda, but a journalist there has let me know about their ex-national coach which has shocked me, a little research and it seems he used to manage SC Villa in Kampala too, as most know they are named after us...
The revolting Red Pepper "newspaper" handled it with it's usual standards i see. I'll leave this link unshortended :O http://www.redpepper.co.ug/sodomy-kingpin-mubiru-charged/
back to our Tommy, a nice Guardian piece here (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/08/thomas-hitzlsperger-der-hammer-villa-west-ham-everton) includes a few good links eg the OS interview after his retirement, and about his support of S African HIV infected kids eg the trailer to "Thomas Hitzlsperger und die Township-Kinder" film (features his then gf i presume?)
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
I understood about 3 words of that. 'I' was almost spelt correctly, fucking well done.
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
Is that some kind of poem?
Indeed. I've never seen vers libre from a total moron before. Intriguing.
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Okay, I'm just back from my Friday afternoon beer, so is everyone reading what I'm reading or did I have one too many?
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
I assume this is meant to be offensive but it is so badly written I can't be sure.
Your team in administration yet?
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
Is that some kind of poem?
I think it's an anagram. I'm usually quite good at these sort of things but unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't speak whatever language it is in.
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Why is it that fucking arseholes who try to be "edgy" don't have the balls to post under their real name?
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Why is it that fucking arseholes who try to be "edgy" don't have the balls to post under their real name?
Titter.
Sorry, that amused me though.
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Why is it that fucking arseholes who try to be "edgy" don't have the balls to post under their real name?
Titter.
Sorry, that amused me though.
Completely unintentional, I can assure you!
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A nice rendition of 1 hitzelsperger before the game and after the game to show our support. Also the tv cameras picking this up would only show other gay pros that theres nothing to fear and for every 1000 who would abuse you theres 100000 willing to back you up.
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A nice rendition of 1 hitzelsperger before the game and after the game to show our support. Also the tv cameras picking this up would only show other gay pros that theres nothing to fear and for every 1000 who would abuse you theres 100000 willing to back you up.
Well said that man. Can we get some sort of campaign going for this chant? Maybe we could do it in the twelfth minute for his old Villa shirt number.
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That would be brilliant on national TV to show our support for Tommy
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Good call.
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It would be great if we could gt a campaign going. Its not up to the media to convince gay footballers its safe outside the closet its us the fans.
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A nice rendition of 1 hitzelsperger before the game and after the game to show our support. Also the tv cameras picking this up would only show other gay pros that theres nothing to fear and for every 1000 who would abuse you theres 100000 willing to back you up.
A very good suggestion and would be another arrow to the heart of mindless, non thinking. moronic idiots. We've done it before.
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A nice rendition of 1 hitzelsperger before the game and after the game to show our support. Also the tv cameras picking this up would only show other gay pros that theres nothing to fear and for every 1000 who would abuse you theres 100000 willing to back you up.
A very good suggestion and would be another arrow to the heart of mindless, non thinking. moronic idiots. We've done it before.
Excellent idea.
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Nice idea though I worry it may get hijacked in a negative way.
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I'm sure there'll be some song/sign of support for him at some point during the game.
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I thought he was a decent player, but ultimately used to vanish far too often.
His goal against Bolton, in what seemed like the 95th minute, after all the trouble there had been with the stewards, was probably my favourite memory of him, run close by the last minute Albion winner.
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His goal against Blues and the celebration afterwards for me.
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
Is that some kind of poem?
It Smells like Peen Spirit.
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His goal against Bolton, in what seemed like the 95th minute,
I'm glad there was a net to stop it otherwise I'd still be comatose in hospital.
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the gf may have been a ts?
or a cd?
apparantly hes been offered a spot on an HBO series
about pillow biters in san francisco
in the report the rep of some agency applauding the news was named S Dick
i kid you not
Is that some kind of poem?
It Smells like Peen Spirit.
With a spellcheck
He's less dangerous
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The albion goal is probably the one for me, I'm not sure why but it's one of the few goals we've scored more than a few months ago where I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I heard it on the radio - I was on my way home from a rugby game having scored 4 tries (the only time in 12 years) before having to come off with concussion, maybe the concussion gave me a bit of clarity of mind.
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I am extremely angry about a piece in the i newspaper today written by Simon Kelner about Thomas. I will quote you the sentence which I find particularly offensive "And the statement from Aston Villa, well meaning though it was, gave no real encouragement, making it sound as if their player had an 'incurable disease'."
I have not read the Villa statement but I would appreciate from ones of you who have read the club statement in full if there is any basis to state in a public newspaper that Villa considered that their player had an incurable disease before I fire off a strong letter of complaint to the editor of the paper.
At a lesser level of offensiveness but equally wild and generalizing in my opinion Kelner goes on to say "But the biggest challenge in terms of changing perceptions may be on what used to be called the terraces, which are still, as anyone who goes regularly to football matches will know, a repository of racism, sexism and homophobia."
I suspect that Kelner never has been a regular attender at football matches because the view he espouses is pure anti football and untrue.
Posters views would be appreciated.
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"Everyone who knows Thomas from his time here at Villa has great respect for him, not only as the fine player he was but also as a man.
"His statement is a straightforward statement and, along with our support as a club, we hope that everyone involved in the game extend to him their support as well."
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I am extremely angry about a piece in the i newspaper today written by Simon Kelner about Thomas. I will quote you the sentence which I find particularly offensive "And the statement from Aston Villa, well meaning though it was, gave no real encouragement, making it sound as if their player had an 'incurable disease'."
I have not read the Villa statement but I would appreciate from ones of you who have read the club statement in full if there is any basis to state in a public newspaper that Villa considered that their player had an incurable disease before I fire off a strong letter of complaint to the editor of the paper.
At a lesser level of offensiveness but equally wild and generalizing in my opinion Kelner goes on to say "But the biggest challenge in terms of changing perceptions may be on what used to be called the terraces, which are still, as anyone who goes regularly to football matches will know, a repository of racism, sexism and homophobia."
I suspect that Kelner never has been a regular attender at football matches because the view he espouses is pure anti football and untrue.
Posters views would be appreciated.
"The club supported Der Hammer with a social media statement, commenting: "Everyone who knows Thomas from his time here at Villa has great respect for him, not only as the fine player he was but also as a man.
"His statement is a straightforward statement and, along with our support as a club, we hope that everyone involved in the game extend to him their support as well."
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Thanks Lee
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And Dave. I shall type my letter to the editor on something fireproof.
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If Hitz returns and comes on the pitch I'll gladly give him a round of applause. As for singing his name on Monday, why? I thought it was a pretty widespread view that 'who cares', one with which I wholheartedly agree. If another ex-player announces he now prefers ginger birds I'll be similarly non-plussed.
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Done. Pick the bones out of that. Thanks again Lee, Dave.
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Doesn't change my opinion of him one bit. Never liked Germans. ;)
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If Hitz returns and comes on the pitch I'll gladly give him a round of applause. As for singing his name on Monday, why? I thought it was a pretty widespread view that 'who cares', one with which I wholheartedly agree. If another ex-player announces he now prefers ginger birds I'll be similarly non-plussed.
Why? Because I oppose prejudice. Because a player who used to play for my club has stood up to be counted in a way which shouldn't be necessary and shouldn't matter, but very sadly does.
Because I hear homophobia at football still, and I don't want to and I want to be part of the change.
Because I've experienced homophobic abuse just for being with a gay friend in a takeaway.
Because I have friends in a country obsessed with the premiership where it's illegal to be gay, and people are abused and killed for their sexual preference, and where if their heroes come out it will make a difference.
Tommy coming out makes it that bit easier for the next, however far away down the line that is.
I can't go to the Arsenal game as I live work/in London and have a voluteer commitment Monday night, but if I could go to the match I would like the applause for the 12th minute, and I'd even go further.
I'd also do a banner from the Upper Holte, just for the press shot, something like,
"#12 Tommy Hitz
We're not fickle
We just like you
Against homophobia
at Villa. Are you?"
I'd also like not to care about the announcement. Just saying like, since you asked. ;)
Thoughts, PW?
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I simply don't agree, I also don't think he's been particularly 'brave' in the way this has come out, brave would have been to do it whilst playing, as it is who cares?, it's 2014 and an ex player of reasonable ability has declared he's gay, after the big pay cheques have stopped, are current gay players really going to feel more reassured by this? If so why?
I wish Hitz no ill, far from it, but as I said, I'm no more interested or impressed than if he announced any other personal matter in hello magazine.
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I simply don't agree, I also don't think he's been particularly 'brave' in the way this has come out, brave would have been to do it whilst playing, as it is who cares?, it's 2014 and an ex player of reasonable ability has declared he's gay, after the big pay cheques have stopped, are current gay players really going to feel more reassured by this? If so why?
I wish Hitz no ill, far from it, but as I said, I'm no more interested or impressed than if he announced any other personal matter in hello magazine.
Well it's a start isn't it? There was a time in this country that no gay person would come out for fear of being ostracised, bullied, ridiculed and attacked by society, and going a bit further back even prosecuted for it.
So yes, he IS brave. One only has to read the moving article by Graeme Le Saux to realise what kind of homophobic morons exist at football clubs.
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But singing his name at a game he's not attending would seem to give him credentials I'm not sure this story quite deserves, through no fault of his own I hasten to add, he's not said he wants to be a standard bearer after all. It was there I came in.
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But singing his name at a game he's not attending would seem to give him credentials I'm not sure this story quite deserves, through no fault of his own I hasten to add, he's not said he wants to be a standard bearer after all. It was there I came in.
I understand that you think "so what" if someone's gay, but sadly a lot of society doesn't think like that. So there's so much more to do to eradicate homophobia from this country, so yes I think a show of solidarity against homophobes would be most welcome at Villa Park to show support to Hitzelsperger.
When I was young racism at football grounds was rife, even accepted as the norm, hardly anyone even batted an eyelid. It was only through education that got us to where we are today. I don't see why homophobia should be any different.
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I wouldn't disagree with a word but would continue to wonder if Hitz would want to be, or would deserve to be the standard bearer you want him to be.
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I wouldn't disagree with a word but would continue to wonder if Hitz would want to be, or would deserve to be the standard bearer.
Suggest you watch football focus interview tomorrow and come back to this question. He's doing multiple interviews on this subject.
I'd just be repeating my already long posts on this thread, that already answer your questions i think. Standard bearer is your phrase, I'm not trying to name what he's doing.
again:
"I'm coming out about my homosexuality because I want to move the discussion about homosexuality among professional sportspeople forwards"
are current gay players really going to feel more reassured by this? If so why?
From my experience of activism in other areas of stigma, here and overseas, because we are changing what is accepted culturally, by exposing the public to ideas.
you know the drill:
Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds hate. Hate breeds violence. Education breeds confidence. Confidence breeds hope. Hope breeds peace.
if you don't feel you want to trust my word on it there is loads here,
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/09/peter-tatchell-thomas-hitzlsperger-gay-homophobia
more quotes from him about why he is doing it. Only just seen the Sun (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-dirty-tackle/man-united-defender-chris-smalling-apologizes-dressing-jager-002130773--sow.html[/l) frontpage from the other day. That's pretty extraordinary for the Sun, even for 2014.
He's already a much more intelligent/respected figure than I'd realised for what work he has done prior to his coming out. I'm glad he's made his name with us.
Thinking about it, I'd happily chuck anyone a few quid who could make that banner for Monday night. Small acts can be effective, it's on TV, timing is everything. See my prior suggestion, anyone (willing to be) in the upper holte up for it? feel free to PM me. Seeing that in the press would at least soften a bad result.
[edited to add the sun/guardian links...]
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Done. Pick the bones out of that. Thanks again Lee, Dave.
Can we see your missive Brian?
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But singing his name at a game he's not attending would seem to give him credentials I'm not sure this story quite deserves, through no fault of his own I hasten to add, he's not said he wants to be a standard bearer after all. It was there I came in.
I agree singing his name is a bad idea. He is not ill and nothing bad has happened to him. He is a normal human being who has made a statement about a personal issue.
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
Can we not sing Hammer to Fall, and get Bryan May in the stands to just rock out a guitar solo every now and again?
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
Wasn't it just de de de de Hitzlsperger
As in this tune http://youtu.be/-N7O87sYi2g
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'One Hitzlsperger' fits perfectly though. Scans like a dream. And I think there are sufficiently few Hitzlspergers around that we don't have to specify that it's Thomas there's only one of.
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
Wasn't it just de de de de Hitzlsperger
As in this tune http://youtu.be/-N7O87sYi2g
That's the one I recall. And 'shoooot!' Even if he was in his own half.
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
Wasn't it just de de de de Hitzlsperger
As in this tune http://youtu.be/-N7O87sYi2g
That's the one I recall. And 'shoooot!' Even if he was in his own half.
Can we sing "Don't shoooot!" whenever Tonev has the ball? Even if he's 3 yards out on an open goal? ;)
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Hello to all on this forum, I've been an avid follower in the shadows, never thought it would be this thread that would make me sign up.
Respect to Thomas - not easy to do and as others have said not really an issue. It took me back to an incident at VP probably 15 years ago - Le Saux received some foul abuse, probably fall-out from the Fowler thing culminating in a very loud chant from the Holte:
"Do you take it up the a***".
Don't get me wrong, I was happy to add to the repeated chorus of my old man and I never regret any of the things I shouted out Savage (he's since proved right everything I said) but the stuff aimed at Le Saux was disgusting and seemed to be the start of a decline in humour and atmosphere VP - not that the football has helped in recent years.
Having said that, it's refreshing to see the enlightened attitudes on here and I will continue to follow you. I live and work in Bristol, surrounded by plastic mancs, cockneys and red scouse scum so reading this forum keeps me going and provides plenty of ammunition to fire back at the glory hunting b******S!
UTV
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Welcome goldenboot2000. UTV.
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
How about "Give me an H..." OK that's going to be a tad difficult.
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The problem with singing his name is that nothing rhymes with it,
we didn't even sing it when he played for us as 'there's only one Thomas Hitzlsperger' doesn't fit
it was always "de de de de hitzselsperger" as in pigbag
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25696033
Robbie Fowler admits being embarrassed, Robbie Savage admits lack of memory.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25696033
Robbie Fowler admits being embarrassed, Robbie Savage admits lack of memory.
interestingly in that article, they mention Justin Fashanu as a "former" gay footballer but not the fact that he committed suicide (apparently for being so); a strange omission if the journalist wanted to really make an impact.
I have found the coverage of the Hitz' announcement a little circus-like, instead of challenging and progressive.
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Didn't Fashanu take his life because there was a warrant for his arrest on a sex offence? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
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On a good day I can only tolerate listening to so much 6-0-6 with Robbie Savage, which tonight was probably no more than 5 minutes. Did he mention anything about Tommy?
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I wouldn't disagree with a word but would continue to wonder if Hitz would want to be, or would deserve to be the standard bearer you want him to be.
I think by coming out when he has and reading his interviews that is exactly what he would like to be.
Deserve? Well why not? To be at the forefront of a campaign to rid our sport of homophobia? It seems that is exactly why he has come out when he has.
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Interesting article by Andy Dunn in the Sunday Mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-thomas-hitzlsperger-3013005
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Interesting article by Andy Dunn in the Sunday Mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-thomas-hitzlsperger-3013005
Nothing interesting in that at all. I'm no fan of Cameron but his tweet was in support of anti homophobia. What the hell has Hitzelsperger coming out got to do with the price of match tickets?
It's alright Dunn saying "so what", but in reality it IS a big deal for a gay footballer to come out, no matter how much he tries to play it down.
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Interesting article by Andy Dunn in the Sunday Mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-thomas-hitzlsperger-3013005
Nothing interesting in that at all. I'm no fan of Cameron but his tweet was in support of anti homophobia. What the hell has Hitzelsperger coming out got to do with the price of match tickets?
It's alright Dunn saying "so what", but in reality it IS a big deal for a gay footballer to come out, no matter how much he tries to play it down.
Using a story about a footballer coming out as gay as a chance to have a go at David Cameron is the kind of low crass journalism we have come to expect from that paper.
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Didn't Fashanu take is like because there was a warrant for his arrest on a sex offence? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
Agreed, it was more than being gay. He had a tough upbringing which may have led to a number of life long issues with depression etc
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After moving to the United States, in 1998 he was questioned by police when a seventeen-year-old boy accused him of sexual assault, for which he was charged, and an arrest warrant for him was issued in Howard County, Maryland on April 3, 1998, but he had already left his flat. According to his suicide note, fearing he would not get a fair trial because of his homosexuality, he fled to England where he killed himself in London in May of that year. His suicide note stated that the sex was consensual.
Taken from Wiki.
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There's been a couple of books written about Justin in the past 18 months, I was in touch with one of the authors.
After reading the story of his life in one of the old football monthlies during the late 90's it was always one of the most affecting true-life stories that stayed with mewhen growing-up.
Here's a really good documentary made shortly after he died which I tried to track down for years unsuccessfully. Wonders of youtube now, no effort required:
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Interesting article by Andy Dunn in the Sunday Mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-thomas-hitzlsperger-3013005
Nothing interesting in that at all. I'm no fan of Cameron but his tweet was in support of anti homophobia. What the hell has Hitzelsperger coming out got to do with the price of match tickets?
It's alright Dunn saying "so what", but in reality it IS a big deal for a gay footballer to come out, no matter how much he tries to play it down.
Using a story about a footballer coming out as gay as a chance to have a go at David Cameron is the kind of low crass journalism we have come to expect from that paper.
As mean spirited and and ill informed Mirror columnists appear to be (hello Carole Malone), I thought the point of it was to simply say "Big deal, fuss over nothing". And he puts the point across very well.
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Thomas Hitzlsperger's plight played out in The Pass in the Royal Court
A new play examines the tricky relationship between sportsmen and their true feelings and in the wake of Thomas Hitzlsperger's announcement makes for fascinating viewing
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10595627/Thomas-Hitzlspergers-plight-played-out-in-The-Pass-in-the-Royal-Court.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10595627/Thomas-Hitzlspergers-plight-played-out-in-The-Pass-in-the-Royal-Court.html)
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Interesting article by Andy Dunn in the Sunday Mirror - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/andy-dunn-column-thomas-hitzlsperger-3013005
Nothing interesting in that at all. I'm no fan of Cameron but his tweet was in support of anti homophobia. What the hell has Hitzelsperger coming out got to do with the price of match tickets?
It's alright Dunn saying "so what", but in reality it IS a big deal for a gay footballer to come out, no matter how much he tries to play it down.
Using a story about a footballer coming out as gay as a chance to have a go at David Cameron is the kind of low crass journalism we have come to expect from that paper.
As mean spirited and and ill informed Mirror columnists appear to be (hello Carole Malone), I thought the point of it was to simply say "Big deal, fuss over nothing". And he puts the point across very well.
No he did'nt, he unnecessarily dragged the Prime Minister into the argument. He could have just as easily written piece about it not being a big deal in this day and age without trying to score political points.
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I think Dunn's article is a decent piece, trying to put some context into the debate. Cameron is no Villa fan or of football in general, he's just using the occasion to score a few political points.
As the article says: "Instead, Cameron and his like stay silent on the real outrages of how ordinary football supporters are being stitched up, day in, day out." Can anyone argue against that?
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but why can't Cameron be a Villa fan? He claimed he was before all of this didn't he? I'm not contesting the angle on this issue but irrespective of his political allegiance is he not allowed to be a fan of the club? I don't agree with his politics but I really don't see why anyone would object to him being a fan of our club. When it comes to that subject, the more the merrier.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but why can't Cameron be a Villa fan? He claimed he was before all of this didn't he? I'm not contesting the angle on this issue but irrespective of his political allegiance is he not allowed to be a fan of the club? I don't agree with his politics but I really don't see why anyone would object to him being a fan of our club. When it comes to that subject, the more the merrier.
He's using football, just like Blair before him, as a vehicle for self promotion. If he had shown some interest in some of the issues raised in that article then perhaps I might believe him, until then I'll stick to my belief that he's an opportunist using it for self promotion. He's in his late forties, so how many of Graham Taylor's promotion team do you think he could name?
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Cameron said in the Commons that he had no interest in football. Later he said he had a passing interest but not much. Then he said he was a Villa supporter. I've also been told that apparently he's been 'advised' never to go into any detail to avoid a Blair/Wor Jackie-style gaff.
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He once referred to the Albion as "WBA". If only his people had only done their research, they could have furnished him with the correct terms such as 'Stripeyfith', 'Tesco Bags' or 'Olbiyun', with references to how much he hates Adrian Chiles, Skinner and that whining twat who phones up Tom Ross to ask "where's the money gone, etc...."
Anyhoo, nice to see Der Hammer's last minute winning goal on the OS front page today.
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Sorry to continue the derail but Cameron is not a Villa fan, or a football fan:
Many of those who have spoken in the debate or have written about the subject are either lawyers or football fans, but I have to confess that I am neither
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2001-10-15.1006.0
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I think Dunn's article is a decent piece, trying to put some context into the debate. Cameron is no Villa fan or of football in general, he's just using the occasion to score a few political points.
As the article says: "Instead, Cameron and his like stay silent on the real outrages of how ordinary football supporters are being stitched up, day in, day out." Can anyone argue against that?
You could question whether a Mirror reporter would write such an article saying the same thing if Ed Milliband was in power.
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Obviously not, for the same reasons that the Telegraph, Sun, Heil and Express haven't written anything similar but would have done if Milliband was in power.
We know where these papers stand, no point being surprised about it.
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I think you can tell which inhabitants of the Westminster village are genuine football fans by the teams they claim to follow. Back in the day I did some work for Harold Wilson. The pipe and the Gannex and the mateyness with Mike Yarwood were all PR props but he really did support Huddersfield. Likewise Campbell's support of Burnley is just as genuine as Blair's support of Toon was fake.
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Shame the sexed=up dossiers weren't as genuine, then half a million people needn't have died.
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Was it Mellor who started this whole Mainstream Politician being overtly 'interested' in football as a way of arse licking Major?
Dennis Howell was a genuine fan IIRC and it is a while ago. But others not sure when it comes to Villa. Norman Fowler tried a bandwagon jump on QT about 20 years ago. Completely unconvincingly. Dunno about Jeff Rooker and today's current crop.
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Former Home Secretary Jacquie Smith is definitely a Villa fan. No question about that.
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Obviously not, for the same reasons that the Telegraph, Sun, Heil and Express haven't written anything similar but would have done if Milliband was in power.
RALPH MILIBAND - THE MAN WHO HATED FOOTBALL
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We probably all know people who have nowhere near the passion or even interest in football as much as we do, rarely if ever go to games, but if pushed who they supported would say Villa (or whoever). Most of them won't have a connection to that club like Cameron and Dugdale.
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Was it Mellor who started this whole Mainstream Politician being overtly 'interested' in football as a way of arse licking Major?
Michael Foot was on the board at Plymouth and Harold Wilson a big Huddersfield fan.
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Was it Mellor who started this whole Mainstream Politician being overtly 'interested' in football as a way of arse licking Major?
Michael Foot was on the board at Plymouth and Harold Wilson a big Huddersfield fan.
And that was Mike Yarwood's act for 15 years.
But it won't affect the pound in your pocket...
*and this is me*
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How about:
He's 6 foot 6
HITZLSPERGER!
He's 6 foot 6
HIZT-UL-SPER-GER
Tall, blonde, claret & blue
Der Hammer will score past youuuuuu
To this tune:
?
Might need some work on the 6 foot 6 bit.
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Jack Straw is a Blackburn supporter, a season ticket holder for many years I believe and yet did nothing to help the families who were campaigning for justice over the Hillsborough disaster.
David Blunkett is a long time Sheffield Wednesday supporter.
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Wasn't Ken Clarke a match going Forest fan?
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Wasn't Ken Clarke a match going Forest fan?
What unique position was Ken Clarke reputed to hold after the 1997 general election?
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Michael Foot - Plymouth Argyle
Roy Hattersley - Sheffield Wednesday
Speaking of Plymouth, reminds me of a chant directed at Brighton fans:
"You dirty northern bastards".
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Wasn't Ken Clarke a match going Forest fan?
What unique position was Ken Clarke reputed to hold after the 1997 general election?
Is it to do with football?
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Wasn't Ken Clarke a match going Forest fan?
What unique position was Ken Clarke reputed to hold after the 1997 general election?
Is it to do with football?
Amazingly for this forum, yes it is football-related.
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That's a shame, I was hoping there was a Swiss angle.
Um, was he the only serving MP on the board of a league club ?
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No.
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Did he hold totally contradictory directorships, something like UK association of fag manufacturers and Sport for All.
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Was he a director of Forest and the Notts CCC at the same time?
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No, and no.
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Did he hold the unique position of "only vaguely likeable Tory"?
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Did he hold the unique position of "only vaguely likeable Tory minister"?
No. Give in?
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Did he hold the unique position of "only vaguely likeable Tory"?
I would've gone for this!
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As an aside, have there been any other players with tool-based nicknames (as opposed to being tools)? The Screwdriver, El Monkey Wrench, Le Chisel?
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So what was the answer?
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Sorry, forgot.
I'm not 100% certain, because it seemed amazing and I never did check it, but it was reckoned that after the 1997 General Election, Ken Clarke was the only Tory MP with a league ground in his constituency.
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Kensington and Chelsea was the first that sprung to mind and they returned Alan Clarke in 97 and Tories ever since, his diaries are a cracking read by the way, unless I'm mistaken that constituency has two league clubs. Not that I'm bored or owt.
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Kensington and Chelsea was the first that sprung to mind and they returned Alan Clarke in 97 and Tories ever since, his diaries are a cracking read by the way, unless I'm mistaken that constituency has two league clubs. Not that I'm bored or owt.
There was a bit of boundary alterations in that area for 1997. I'm not certain, but I think that Putney had Craven Cottage. And we all know what happened in Putney at that election. The fun starts at 9.00 but there's a good warm-up at 7.00.
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Both Chelsea and Fulham are within Hammersmith and Fulham constituency which was indeed a Labour hold in 1997.
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Both Chelsea and Fulham are within Hammersmith and Fulham constituency which was indeed a Labour hold in 1997.
It might be right then.
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Actually scrub that, I was looking at the Council elections.
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Actually scrub that, I was looking at the Council elections.
Um scrub that, right first time, or second time come to think of it. Neither grounds were in Tory constituencies in 97.
*deletes 'researcher' off list of possible careers.*
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Actually scrub that, I was looking at the Council elections.
Um scrub that, right first time, or second time come to think of it. Neither grounds were in Tory constituencies in 97.
*deletes 'researcher' off list of possible careers.*
Just have a look at that You tube clip and take your mind off it.
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I thought it was going to be Portillo, I'd forgotten all about Mellor, and what James Goldsmiths party were all about?
Wasn't DAvid Evans the Luton chairman who introduced the away fan ban or is the memory going.
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I thought it was going to be Portillo, I'd forgotten all about Mellor, and what James Goldsmiths party were all about?
Wasn't DAvid Evans the Luton chairman who introduced the away fan ban or is the memory going.
Goldsmith's mob were the prototype UKIP. He bankrolled a load of them to stand in pro-Europe Tory constituencies.
He was. What a horrible man he was.
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Sorry, forgot.
I'm not 100% certain, because it seemed amazing and I never did check it, but it was reckoned that after the 1997 General Election, Ken Clarke was the only Tory MP with a league ground in his constituency.
I think you may be right as I moved there shortly afterwards.
Although the (fairly) likeable Tory is also a good shot based on the competition at the time and since.
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Not sure if this is a distant dream or memory - Ken Clarke's daughter, who was a nurse, was arrested for a drink involved public order offence many years ago when the family lived in Moseley. If it was a dream, I need help. As my descent into old age accelerates, it does worry me at times what useless information I retain.
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I've found Portillo quite likeable in recent years
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I've found Portillo quite likeable in recent years
It's all relative though. Given what an insufferable shithead he was, he'd have to have taken up baby-eating in retirement to have got worse.
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It's surprising how many Tories become more human once their political career is over and they have to start mixing with the proles.
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Nicholas Winterton was the Tory MP for Macclesfield, who were promoted to the Football League in May 1997
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Nicholas Winterton was the Tory MP for Macclesfield, who were promoted to the Football League in May 1997
Did you know that off the top of your head Chico?
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Nicholas Winterton was the Tory MP for Macclesfield, who were promoted to the Football League in May 1997
Still in the Conference at the election.
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Entering the realms of elite pedantry here. Macclesfield were promoted to the footbal league 3 days after the 97 general election
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Entering the realms of elite pedantry here. Macclesfield were promoted to the footbal league 3 days after the 97 general election
But not elected until June.
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Slightly tenuous link to the subject of this thread, but an unlikely message of support for the NFL player who recently came out.
Impressive monologue.
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Slightly tenuous link to the subject of this thread, but an unlikely message of support for the NFL player who recently came out.
Impressive monologue.
Very impressive. Curious though, why do you think it is "unlikely"?
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I've found Portillo quite likeable in recent years
Aye as a fellow "sad man on a train" and This Week fan, yes he has.
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Impressive indeed. I sometimes work with people really suffering from such prejudices, terribly so, and can say being able to talk about Tom Daly, tommy Hitz etc, including video interviews I've been able to share, has helped...
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Slightly tenuous link to the subject of this thread, but an unlikely message of support for the NFL player who recently came out.
Impressive monologue.
I thought that was excellent.
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Impressive indeed. I sometimes work with people really suffering from such prejudices, terribly so, and can say being able to talk about Tom Daly, tommy Hitz etc, including video interviews I've been able to share, has helped...
hmmm, read Tony Daley there for a minute and thought I'd missed something.
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Slightly tenuous link to the subject of this thread, but an unlikely message of support for the NFL player who recently came out.
Impressive monologue.
I thought that was excellent.
With rational well argued points of like that, he'll be probably be forced out / sacked before the start of next NFL season.
How long before the right wing shockjocks start off on how this guy is more of a problem than Michael Sams himself.
An inconvenient truth?Al Gore's got nothing on this guy.
Oh and can anyone imagine Hansen, Lineker or Savage being eloquent enough to produce a monologue like that without resorting to "at the end of day", "in my day" or falling into Viz like fnarr fnarr type innuendo?
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Slightly tenuous link to the subject of this thread, but an unlikely message of support for the NFL player who recently came out.
Impressive monologue.
I thought that was excellent.
Wow!! That was a fantastic speech from someone who even admits he doesn't understand the world of a gay man.
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Not football related, but I see Ellen Page has come out.
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Not football related, but I see Ellen Page has come out.
That doesn't seem in the least bit surprising to be honest, but good luck to her. Very good young actress.
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Not football related, but I see Ellen Page has come out.
Never heard of her, and a quick Google search confirmed she's not someone vaguely on my radar. Regardless, good luck to her.
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I've seen her in a few films. Juno, Super, Hard Candy, An American Crime. The last two aren't exactly family films.
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I don't know if many people listen to it or not but The Big Interview with Graham Hunter is a podcast I subscribe to. He can be a bit of a brown-noser at times but a lot of the retired players and managers he's had on have really been worth the listen.
Anyway, he's just done a two part interview with Thomas Hitzlsperger and it's available to listen to now. Again, worth a listen for sure but I felt that the Villa-related chat was very thin on the ground considering how much of his career was spent with us. He's very respectful of the club and it was worth listening to just for the background on how his move to Villa from Bayern came about. Sadly, Thomas seems to have lost a lot of that lovely Brummie twang that melded so satisfyingly with his German accent over the years but he still comes across as an intelligent, eloquent and thoroughly nice chap.
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Thomas has a new job.
Thomas Hitzlsperger has been named as the sporting director at Bundesliga strugglers Stuttgart.
The former Aston Villa and Germany midfielder, 36, made 172 appearances for Stuttgart - winning the 2007 Bundesliga title with them.
He replaces Michael Reschke, who was sacked with the club sitting in the relegation play-off place.
Hitzlsperger, who also played for Chesterfield, West Ham and Everton, has been working as a pundit on German TV.
"I will do my utmost to concentrate our strengths so that we stay up and at the same time set a course for a successful future," said Hitzlsperger, who will be working closely with head coach Markus Weinzierl
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Joe Root has half come out.
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Joe Root has half come out.
The Angel Gabriel cast his wroth upon the lad. Bound to be ructions.
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Was nice to see the Beeb not even bother to mention his sexuality, though am a bit confused by your Root comment Brian? Was also glad to see he’d said what he said on the pitch.
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Root said "Don't use it as an insult there is nothing wrong with being gay". Good for him.
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It was good from Root.
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Perfect riposte by JR.
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Not football related, but I see Ellen Page has come out.
Always liked her guest spots on the Two Ronnie 😀
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Joe Root has half come out.
Not that it matters, but Joe Root got married to the mother of his son just before Christmas. You obviously don't have to be gay yourself to stand up to homophobia. Good on him in any case.
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Could not have put it better. The fact that the procation went unrecorded adds impact to his excellent rebuttal.
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Hitz is still only 36! Bloody hell, am I living in accelerated time?
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Hitz is still only 36! Bloody hell, am I living in accelerated time?
He was only 30 or 31 when he called it a day I think.
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Der Hammer's goal celebrations were always great.
Arms waving everywhere and total joy at scoring