Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: N'ZMAV on December 27, 2012, 12:20:52 PM

Title: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 27, 2012, 12:20:52 PM
What do you reckon?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 27, 2012, 12:34:22 PM
Talk more clearly to the players .  I cant understand him neither .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on December 27, 2012, 12:34:49 PM
It's been said ad nauseum, but signing some experience might help.

Two midfielders
Striker
Two defenders

Getting any quality here will be the hardest part, also, we don't even know if Lambert will take that line, he might well sign more youngsters from divisions below.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on December 27, 2012, 12:35:20 PM
Talk more clearly to the players .  I cant understand him neither .
He mumbles like some kind of Scottish Don Corlene.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 27, 2012, 12:41:52 PM
What has he ever done to make you treat him so disrespectfully?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: brian green on December 27, 2012, 12:45:53 PM
I agree with the clarity of communication issue.   I share the same first language with him and find him extremely hard to follow so what it must be like for a French or Arabic or German speaker it is hard to imagine.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: paul_e on December 27, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
He needs to plan things better.

Both games we've unraveleld because things haven't turned out how we expected them to and the players haven't had the experience to change things on the pitch.  If we're going with youth we need to tell them explicitly how to react to things.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Risso on December 27, 2012, 12:51:19 PM
But some decent players this January instead of Lidl quality lower league cheapness.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Legion on December 27, 2012, 12:54:14 PM
Add some experienced players to the squad so the youth can develop.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Clampy on December 27, 2012, 12:58:22 PM
It's annoying because up until the Chelsea debacle, we were slowly looking at getting it right on the pitch. After the little run of clean sheets we had and the win in the Cup and at Liverpool, losing 8-0 in the next match was unthinkable.

I don't think he's been helped by not being able to pick a settled back line. Whenever Baker starts to look the part, he picks up a knock. Vlaar took a few games to settle then started to look good then he got injured. Bennett got suspended then injured and he's had to use Lowton as a centre half when it's not his position. He's also not helped himself by leaving better players on the bench.

It'll be an interesting January but i think we can all agree a bit of expereince in the middle of the pitch is a priority and the way Baker keeps picking up knocks, possibly another centre half is needed.

Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on December 27, 2012, 12:58:39 PM
We need to be more street wise. Experience will bring this.

We need to find a formation and stick to it. Using our best players with a mix of experience and the better of the youth we've signed.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: SashasGrandad on December 27, 2012, 01:04:25 PM
I agree with the clarity of communication issue.   I share the same first language with him and find him extremely hard to follow so what it must be like for a French or Arabic or German speaker it is hard to imagine.

I'm sure when he is not being polite in front of TV cameras he makes his points extremely clear! Even if they can't understand the Glaswegian they will know what he wants them to do, and will know when he is unhappy with the things they do.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bertlambshank on December 27, 2012, 01:11:24 PM
A proper 5 in midfield would be a start.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: olaftab on December 27, 2012, 01:16:06 PM
Get Lampard or Parker in on loan till end of the season. However the worry is that Harry will get one or both of them.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: nick harper on December 27, 2012, 01:36:41 PM
Back to basics in January. Make us defensive, a tight unit, stop conceding goals. If you don't concede, you don't lose. And the physios have got to get some of these players off the treatment table.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 27, 2012, 01:42:50 PM
Get Lampard or Parker in on loan till end of the season. However the worry is that Harry will get one or both of them.

Parker may be worth a try but no way lampard would come here, he will have plenty of tempting offers from various clubs home and abroad.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 01:43:03 PM
He needs to consider the team we're facing and stop picking formations and tactics out of a hat.

We were clinging on for dear life at half time yesterday and when Baker went off injured his response was to make two attacking substitutions.  Whilst it did result in us having our best 5 minute spell of the game at the start of the second half it did also mean we were horrendously exposed at the back.

Whilst he's doing this he should also tell every single player (except Herd and Delph) that tackling has not yet been outlawed from the game.  In fact, they should be encouraged to do it.  The amount of time and space both Chelsea and Spurs have had in the last two games is ridiculous.  And for at least one of Spurs' goals yesterday they ran the length of the pitch to score without a single tackle coming in.

And then of course there's the experience point everyone else has made.  The past two games we've looked like a lower division side.  Whilst some of the kids look good, with no experience around them and regular beatings, we'll potentially get relegated and almost certainly destroy the potential these kids have.

There's a lot to be done in January...
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Villadroid on December 27, 2012, 01:46:45 PM
.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 01:50:30 PM
Last time I looked, Villa Park had the biggest pitch in the Premiership.

The big pitch just allows teams who play football to exploit the space and make it difficult for Villa's chasers to compress the play enough to stifle the better teams.

So the pitch needs to be reduced in size to give Villa's journeymen a chance.

Have Chelsea got the biggest pitch too?  Stoke shrunk their pitch to the smallest possible size when they got promoted so that they could stifle the opposition and get Delap's throws to land on the keeper's head - I'd rather we didn't resort to that thanks.

Oh, and it's the first time I've heard the youngest team in the league be described as 'journeymen'.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: MarkM on December 27, 2012, 01:57:03 PM
You would hope that we would improve as the season has gone on, but statistically we have not really improved at all.

Our stats over the season thus far are not great (please feel free to check and correct, I have not included cup games or the first game of the season in order to give a balanced check)

0.94 points per game
0.79 goals scored per game
1.9 goals conceded per game
Won: 4
Drawn: 6
Lost: 9
Minus 21 goal difference worse than any other team
Only Southampton, Wigan, Reading and QPR have lost more games than us
Only 4 teams have won the same or less games than us

But have we shown any real improvement?

The last 9 games are as follows:
Won: 2, Drawn: 3, Lost 4. For: 7 Away: 22, G/D: -15 Pts: 9

The previous 9 games:
Won: 2, Drawn: 3, Lost: 4. For: 8 Away: 13, G/D: -5 Pts: 9

So statistically we are flatlining, except that we are conceding more goals.

This time last season we had 20 points so we are in terms of points worse than last season.

I agree with the main points in that we are desperately short of any leadership on the pitch, and our midfield is very lightweight. We need an injection of quality in midfield and central defence or we may find ourselves in the Division 2
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Villadroid on December 27, 2012, 01:58:16 PM
.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: TheMalandro on December 27, 2012, 01:59:19 PM
Lambert needs Randy to back him in January. As far as I'm concerned he is still the right man for the job.

He quickly identified the problem players and his bigish signing have impressed. Perhaps the obvious error he has made is not signing somebody like himself in central midfield.
Time will tell if Karim is a mistake, but I'm not writing him off until he has experience and a brute to help him out.

We just need to cling to this league this season, if we do, I expect a much better next season.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bertlambshank on December 27, 2012, 02:00:44 PM
Last time I looked, Villa Park had the biggest pitch in the Premiership.

The big pitch just allows teams who play football to exploit the space and make it difficult for Villa's chasers to compress the play enough to stifle the better teams.

So the pitch needs to be reduced in size to give Villa's journeymen a chance.
No one on the pitch over 30.Who are these Journeymen you talk of?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Risso on December 27, 2012, 02:02:32 PM
Concede fewer goals, score more.  And for the love of god, stop saying "pick ourselves up and go again".
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Risso on December 27, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
He needs to consider the team we're facing and stop picking formations and tactics out of a hat.

We were clinging on for dear life at half time yesterday and when Baker went off injured his response was to make two attacking substitutions.  Whilst it did result in us having our best 5 minute spell of the game at the start of the second half it did also mean we were horrendously exposed at the back.



That's the worrying thing, tactical knowhow and changing things to suit the opposition was supposed to be his strong point.  Looks like a certain case of emperor's new clothes to me.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 27, 2012, 02:05:18 PM
People saying experience will help, have a valid point. Hopefully Dunne, Vlaar, Agbonlahor, Ireland and Given can help with that.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Villadroid on December 27, 2012, 02:05:40 PM
.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on December 27, 2012, 02:06:35 PM

Buy better players
Play to the strengths of what we have
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: LeeB on December 27, 2012, 02:11:45 PM
Score more goals than the opposition.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Legion on December 27, 2012, 02:15:12 PM
Score more goals than the opposition.

You've solved the problem!
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 02:15:25 PM
People saying experience will help, have a valid point. Hopefully Dunne, Vlaar, Agbonlahor, Ireland and Given can help with that.

Given, Ireland, Bent and NZogbia have bags of experience but Lambert won't pick them, even when they're fit.  I'm fairly certain that even when Dunne's fit Lambert won't select him either.  Whilst Gabby does get a game when fit, he invariably gets played out of position.  Vlaar's the only one Lambert will play but he's got no experience of the Premier League.

Lambert needs Randy to back him in January. As far as I'm concerned he is still the right man for the job.

He quickly identified the problem players and his bigish signing have impressed.

Whilst I still think Lambert's the best option we have at the moment I'm not sure I buy the 'problem players' argument.  From where I'm sitting Lambert has ostracised all of the experienced and presumably higher paid players in the squad from the moment he arrived - I can't imagine they're all problem players.  He's bought his own players in to replace them but they're either not as good or not enough to replace the ones left out.  The gap has been filled by kids who are also not good enough to carry a Premier League team.

I still trust he'll get it right but my patience is running out.  He looks like a guy with an agenda who's trying to prove a point somehow.  Unfortunately he's not doing it very well and I'm worried he'll end up doing it via a trip to the Championship.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: villan1975 on December 27, 2012, 02:44:24 PM
Last time I looked, Villa Park had the biggest pitch in the Premiership.

The big pitch just allows teams who play football to exploit the space and make it difficult for Villa's chasers to compress the play enough to stifle the better teams.

So the pitch needs to be reduced in size to give Villa's journeymen a chance.
I may be mistaken but aren't all the pitches the same size this year from the FA's new directive?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2012, 02:45:27 PM
Simple, sign an experienced quality centre half, left back, two centre mids and a forward. We'll be fine then.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2012, 02:53:51 PM
We need to get the balance right essentially. I'm all for bringing young players through, I've been really impressed by Benteke, Westwood and Lowton. However you have to get the mix right. We need experienced quality in order to allow these players to develop. It doesn't need to be Premier League experience necessarily, as quality from abroad will bed in nicely as well like Vlaar did. It would also prevent us buckling like we have done when things go against us. It's very clear what the issue is.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: davisa on December 27, 2012, 03:17:11 PM
Change the fucking Physio!!! We never hear of any progress that the players are making with their injuries, we're just left with the same old message the day before a game: 'All major doubts' - Well i don't expect to read anything else now!  Ever since MON left we have been riddled with injuries.  People mocked his training methods but no fucker ever got injured did they!?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 27, 2012, 03:25:09 PM
Have the courage of his convictions and not be swayed by people who think he's the bee's knees after winning at Anfield and in need of help after a couple of heavy defeats.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2012, 03:27:14 PM
Chris even after Anfield I don't think many people didn't think we needed some experienced players.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 27, 2012, 03:39:43 PM
Chris even after Anfield I don't think many people didn't think we needed some experienced players.

We probably do and we also need the injury list to clear up, I'm making a more general point about doing it as his way. I just think he needs to stay true to himself. As an example we've seen the problem spending for the short term can have, you end up stuck with players on long term contracts eating up the wage bill and contributing little. He needs to continue to buy the players he sees as doing a job for 2-3 years, not just 2-3 months.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 27, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
Chris even after Anfield I don't think many people didn't think we needed some experienced players.

We probably do and we also need the injury list to clear up, I'm making a more general point about doing it as his way. I just think he needs to stay true to himself. As an example we've seen the problem spending for the short term can have, you end up stuck with players on long term contracts eating up the wage bill and contributing little. He needs to continue to buy the players he sees as doing a job for 2-3 years, not just 2-3 months.

A couple of loan signings would be low risk for starters.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on December 27, 2012, 03:48:20 PM
Chris even after Anfield I don't think many people didn't think we needed some experienced players.

We probably do and we also need the injury list to clear up, I'm making a more general point about doing it as his way. I just think he needs to stay true to himself. As an example we've seen the problem spending for the short term can have, you end up stuck with players on long term contracts eating up the wage bill and contributing little. He needs to continue to buy the players he sees as doing a job for 2-3 years, not just 2-3 months.

Are you in favour of the club's austerity approach, Chris?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: IFWaters on December 27, 2012, 04:08:21 PM
One experienced central defender signing - Lescott anyone?

Two loan signings - I would go for Arshavin, Yakubu .

Don't sell Bent.

Ask Stan to talk to the team.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Legion on December 27, 2012, 04:09:49 PM
Pray.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 27, 2012, 04:12:21 PM
Chris even after Anfield I don't think many people didn't think we needed some experienced players.

We probably do and we also need the injury list to clear up, I'm making a more general point about doing it as his way. I just think he needs to stay true to himself. As an example we've seen the problem spending for the short term can have, you end up stuck with players on long term contracts eating up the wage bill and contributing little. He needs to continue to buy the players he sees as doing a job for 2-3 years, not just 2-3 months.

Are you in favour of the club's austerity approach, Chris?

We spent a fair bit in the summer and will hopefully sign more in January so I don't think austerity is the right word.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2012, 04:16:58 PM
I'm not sure the experience within our squad is up to it. I'm happy with Vlaar and maybe Gabby, other than that Ireland, N'Zog and Dunne are all flaky and or injured. We need players from the outside to hit the ground running.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Mister E on December 27, 2012, 04:20:18 PM
He needs to plan things better.

Both games we've unraveleld because things haven't turned out how we expected them to and the players haven't had the experience to change things on the pitch.  If we're going with youth we need to tell them explicitly how to react to things.
This, and - Paul: your tactical analysis re the Chelsea game was bang on. Lambo did not respond to the obvious FSW tactics and the back three were as exposed as an overcooked arse on a nudist beach.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rigadon on December 27, 2012, 04:20:35 PM
Add experience to the great potential in critical areas and we'll be fine.  Don't and I think we'll be relegated. 
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: DB on December 27, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
Hopefully - he must. We have mostly an academy / youth side at the momemt, yes we need our injured players back but also some strong leaders i.e. experienced. There is a lot of youngsters who not only don't have the experience but are also un-proven in terms of quality. It's OK doing it with 1 or 2 at a time, but the whole of team is not good.

But get our players back - and some new ones in Jan, we'll be OK....
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bob on December 27, 2012, 04:23:27 PM
People saying experience will help, have a valid point. Hopefully Dunne, Vlaar, Agbonlahor, Ireland and Given can help with that.

Given, Ireland, Bent and NZogbia have bags of experience but Lambert won't pick them, even when they're fit.  I'm fairly certain that even when Dunne's fit Lambert won't select him either.  Whilst Gabby does get a game when fit, he invariably gets played out of position.  Vlaar's the only one Lambert will play but he's got no experience of the Premier League.

Lambert needs Randy to back him in January. As far as I'm concerned he is still the right man for the job.

He quickly identified the problem players and his bigish signing have impressed.

Whilst I still think Lambert's the best option we have at the moment I'm not sure I buy the 'problem players' argument.  From where I'm sitting Lambert has ostracised all of the experienced and presumably higher paid players in the squad from the moment he arrived - I can't imagine they're all problem players.  He's bought his own players in to replace them but they're either not as good or not enough to replace the ones left out.  The gap has been filled by kids who are also not good enough to carry a Premier League team.

I still trust he'll get it right but my patience is running out.  He looks like a guy with an agenda who's trying to prove a point somehow.  Unfortunately he's not doing it very well and I'm worried he'll end up doing it via a trip to the Championship.

This post makes little sense.

You say you trust him to get it right but in the same sentence reveal that you really don't as your patience is running out. You say you think he is the best option we have but accuse him of trying to prove a point by leaving certain players out.

I think he is doing well. I think that many of the kids have done well. The other players available to him have not shown that they are capable of doing any better, so he has few options to change things for the better.

We've seen positive signs this season and we have also had some disastrous results. At the halfway stage we are not in the bottom three but there are serious issues that need to be addressed in the January transfer window. Lambert is not stupid, he will know this.

We just have to hope that the Chairman gives him the resources to do something about it.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bob on December 27, 2012, 04:29:28 PM
One experienced central defender signing - Lescott anyone?

Two loan signings - I would go for Arshavin, Yakubu .

Don't sell Bent.

Ask Stan to talk to the team.

Ask Stan to talk to the team? That would be the strong leadership we need from Lambert! Unless you mean as a translator? Could work.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Pete3206 on December 27, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
Premier League experience needed in the midfield, tough tacklers and leaders.





Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: old man villa fan on December 27, 2012, 04:48:57 PM
We are badly in need of bringing some players in.  Injuries to key positions in the team are exposing a squad that is limited in strength and experience.

Having Ireland and KEA down the middle and a rapidly tiring Holman, allowed Spurs (and particularly Bale) to walk through us at will.  I was surprised that he took Westwood off, even if not playing his best unless he is trying to protect him and save him for Saturday.  Westwood is the one disciplined player we have in the middle who plays it simple and does not get dragged all over the pitch.

My solution to the lack of experience would be to go out and get two experienced big name midfield players and possibly a central defender on loan until the end of the season.  Pay what it needs to bring them in (and even offer them a big bonus to give them a real incentive).  In addition, if the manager can see one or two more players for the future, buy them but not to make panic buys.  As somebody else already commented, these players do not have to come from the PL.  In this way, our expenditure is limited and it does not alter the long term aim of building a young squad.

I am not sure if there is a limit on the number of loan players a club can take on.  There must be a few players around Europe that are running contracts down that would jump at the chance of putting themselves in the shop window for 5 months.

We need to get the end of the season and move on again.  We need to finish the season on the up so that we have a good platform for next season.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JJ-AV on December 27, 2012, 04:58:26 PM
I know we've lowered the wage bill - but in Given, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, N'Zogbia, Ireland and Bent we have a group of players that are paid top 6 wages and, for a variety of reasons, not contributing at all to the current team.

Hopefully we can shift a couple and allow Lambert some room for maneuver regarding transfers. Perhaps even a couple (Dunne and N'Zogbia) can get back into the side and show some form until the Summer. Dunne especially, he needs to show some form to secure his last contract in the Summer.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: ez on December 27, 2012, 04:59:58 PM
So it seems Randy has to bail out another manager in the January window. Its becoming a theme. He must be wondering when the club is going to stand on its own two feet.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Eigentor on December 27, 2012, 05:12:14 PM
The alternative to strengthen the team is to rely on luck. As we have seen the last to games we lack players who are at least slightly useful even when they're having a bad day. The first priority should be two midfielders who offer at least some protection to the back four. KEA, Delph and Holman are not up to it, and Westwood is too inexperienced to be relied on in what may be a relegation struggle. If we get that one thing right we should have enough in other areas (Bent and Benteke in attack; N'Zogbia, Ireland, Albrighton as creative midfielders; Vlaar, Clarke, Baker, Dunne in defence) to avoid relegation with comfort.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Shrek on December 27, 2012, 05:27:53 PM
We have gone about things totally wrong, it's not Lambert's fault.

The club has been run very poorly, we need a strong chairman that is a football man and can have more of a say in the transfer dealings.
West Brom have improved as a club despite various different mangers, same as Swansea and Spurs. The one common thing with them all, is they all have a strong chairman that knows his stuff and is in control of the club, even with aspects of the transfer dealings.

We now have a big dilemma, because we are back too square one, where we need quality and experience as a matter of urgency, but the only way we are going to get this is by paying the wages, which is the route cause to most of our problems as a club.

We either need a fully fit and fully committed Richard Dunne back and playing alongside Vlaar along with a few experienced additions in January or we need a Micheal Dawson or someone similar. Only problem is, the only way we will get those type to come is by paying the big wages.

I have faith in Lambert, but the club are playing a very risky game, which if it comes off (we stay up this year and get rid off all remaining high earners) then we are laughing, because Lambert will basically have a blank canvass, that won't be a struggling team, but a very young and talented squad that have premier league experience. He will then be able to buy quality and pay the wages to top quality players where needed.

But we gotta stay up first Mr Lerner and Mr Faulkner
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on December 27, 2012, 05:42:43 PM
Convince the fans not to moan groan everything the smallest thing goes wrong.

Not to buy old players for the sake of it - it'd knock the yonger players for six.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on December 27, 2012, 05:44:05 PM
Also, the players currently injured would be a big help. Gabby, Bent & Vlar would get in every team outside top 5.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2012, 05:44:09 PM
Convince the fans not to moan groan everything the smallest thing goes wrong.

Not to buy old players for the sake of it - it'd knock the yonger players for six.

It's not for the sake of it, it's required. They of course need to fit in with the squad, but it is definitely needed.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 05:53:21 PM
This post makes little sense.

You say you trust him to get it right but in the same sentence reveal that you really don't as your patience is running out. You say you think he is the best option we have but accuse him of trying to prove a point by leaving certain players out.

I think he is doing well. I think that many of the kids have done well. The other players available to him have not shown that they are capable of doing any better, so he has few options to change things for the better.

We've seen positive signs this season and we have also had some disastrous results. At the halfway stage we are not in the bottom three but there are serious issues that need to be addressed in the January transfer window. Lambert is not stupid, he will know this.

We just have to hope that the Chairman gives him the resources to do something about it.

The post makes sense if you read it properly.

I still trust he'll get it right but I'm not stupid enough to hold that view forever, no matter what happens.  Successive massive hidings on the back of an already poor first half of the season means my patience is wearing thin.  I'm not going to sit here and say everything's rosy just because Lambert is, in my view, currently the best option available to us.

And leaving seasoned Premier League players on the bench while he plays the youth team, when everyone can see we're desperately short of experience doesn't make any logical sense to me - hence why it comes across as though he's trying to prove a point.

Not everyone has your blind 'In Lambert We Trust' mentality.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 27, 2012, 06:03:51 PM
Convince the fans not to moan groan everything the smallest thing goes wrong.

Not to buy old players for the sake of it - it'd knock the yonger players for six.

There has been hardly any moaning and groaning, despite our worst start since biblical times, and despite getting pumped 8 and then 4 nil.

In fact, the fans seem behind him to a massive degree, which is heartening to see.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 06:05:27 PM
Convince the fans not to moan groan everything the smallest thing goes wrong.


12 goals conceded in two matches is 'the smallest thing'?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bob on December 27, 2012, 06:32:51 PM
This post makes little sense.

You say you trust him to get it right but in the same sentence reveal that you really don't as your patience is running out. You say you think he is the best option we have but accuse him of trying to prove a point by leaving certain players out.

I think he is doing well. I think that many of the kids have done well. The other players available to him have not shown that they are capable of doing any better, so he has few options to change things for the better.

We've seen positive signs this season and we have also had some disastrous results. At the halfway stage we are not in the bottom three but there are serious issues that need to be addressed in the January transfer window. Lambert is not stupid, he will know this.

We just have to hope that the Chairman gives him the resources to do something about it.

The post makes sense if you read it properly.

I still trust he'll get it right but I'm not stupid enough to hold that view forever, no matter what happens.  Successive massive hidings on the back of an already poor first half of the season means my patience is wearing thin.  I'm not going to sit here and say everything's rosy just because Lambert is, in my view, currently the best option available to us.

And leaving seasoned Premier League players on the bench while he plays the youth team, when everyone can see we're desperately short of experience doesn't make any logical sense to me - hence why it comes across as though he's trying to prove a point.

Not everyone has your blind 'In Lambert We Trust' mentality.

What were you expecting for the first half of this season?

Who are the seasoned Premier League players sat on the bench that could come in and improve the first team?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'Zimidy on December 27, 2012, 06:35:58 PM
In response to the thread title I hope that Lambert does the complete opposite of what some people in this thread have suggested to bring in the motherboard of crap old players like Parker, Lampard, Arshavin or even worse; Yakubu.

All we need is an attacking midfielder, a central midfielder and if the right player is available, a left back. We should definitely keep with the ethos and get in players no older than twenty five and certainly not from the Premier League. I'd much rather finish 16th with our group of young players who will improve rather than a bunch of expensive ageing players finishing 15th.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 27, 2012, 06:41:11 PM
In response to the thread title I hope that Lambert does the complete opposite of what some people in this thread have suggested to bring in the motherboard of crap old players like Parker, Lampard, Arshavin or even worse; Yakubu.

All we need is an attacking midfielder, a central midfielder and if the right player is available, a left back. We should definitely keep with the ethos and get in players no older than twenty five and certainly not from the Premier League. I'd much rather finish 16th with our group of young players who will improve rather than a bunch of expensive ageing players finishing 15th.

If you think Parker and lampard are crap I'd hate to know what you think of our players!
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: richard moore on December 27, 2012, 06:53:34 PM
In response to the thread title I hope that Lambert does the complete opposite of what some people in this thread have suggested to bring in the motherboard of crap old players like Parker, Lampard, Arshavin or even worse; Yakubu.

All we need is an attacking midfielder, a central midfielder and if the right player is available, a left back. We should definitely keep with the ethos and get in players no older than twenty five and certainly not from the Premier League. I'd much rather finish 16th with our group of young players who will improve rather than a bunch of expensive ageing players finishing 15th.

If you think Parker and lampard are crap I'd hate to know what you think of our players!

Michael Carrick is another one who is far too crap for us. Keeps playing killer passes for Man Utd goals but no way he'd be good enough down the Villa...
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Des Little on December 27, 2012, 06:56:01 PM
We'd do well to get Paul Carrick
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ad@m on December 27, 2012, 07:05:39 PM
Who are the seasoned Premier League players sat on the bench that could come in and improve the first team?


Bent, Given, Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Hutton and Warnock all have bags of experience at the top level.  No, they're not the most talented players in the world but they're no worse than the players we're putting out there at the moment and the addition of some experience to the first team would probably improve the performances of the young players out there at the same time.

Hutton and Warnock were immediately jettisoned.  Bent, Given and NZogbia haven't really been given a chance by Lambert.  Dunne's obviously been injured and Ireland's been used sparingly.  I'd say the kids have been given much more opportunity than any of the older players.  I'd be quite happy to applaud this approach if we were midtable but as we're flirting with relegation and have suffered the worst defeat in our history followed by a 4-0 thumping at home I think it's fair game to question the manager's decisions.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on December 27, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
We'd do well to get Paul Carrick
How long would it take to sign him?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bob on December 27, 2012, 07:38:44 PM
Who are the seasoned Premier League players sat on the bench that could come in and improve the first team?


Bent, Given, Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Hutton and Warnock all have bags of experience at the top level.  No, they're not the most talented players in the world but they're no worse than the players we're putting out there at the moment and the addition of some experience to the first team would probably improve the performances of the young players out there at the same time.

Hutton and Warnock were immediately jettisoned.  Bent, Given and NZogbia haven't really been given a chance by Lambert.  Dunne's obviously been injured and Ireland's been used sparingly.  I'd say the kids have been given much more opportunity than any of the older players.  I'd be quite happy to applaud this approach if we were midtable but as we're flirting with relegation and have suffered the worst defeat in our history followed by a 4-0 thumping at home I think it's fair game to question the manager's decisions.

Questioning his decisions is fair enough.

I think it's a real stretch of the imagination to look at that list and see who might have helped.

They might have experience, but I would rank Warnock, Hutton, N'Zogbia and Ireland as only marginally better options than getting rid of the physio, loaning Yakubu or getting Petrov to do the team talks. In fact I'd say playing some of them would be more likely to have an overall negative effect on our predicament. .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 08:02:58 PM
We'd do well to get Paul Carrick
As long as you were looking back over your shoulder, you mght just stand a chance ;D
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: john2710 on December 27, 2012, 08:10:27 PM
Firstly, we've spent the last 2 seasons in or around the relegation area & the problems are the same now as they were under the previous managers, only made worse by injuries & the decisions to replace experience with potential. You can't fill a premiership team with cheap inexperienced potential & expect to compete. If Vlar, Gabby, Dunne, N'Zogbia & Bent were available & selected we'd be in a better position, but they are not & we can't cling to the hope they will play for the 2nd half of the season. Take 5 first team players out of any side & they would struggle. I admire Lambert for what he is trying to do & for the most part I've enjoyed the football more than last season but if anything our squad is now considerably weaker than it was 12 months ago.

Watching Lambert last night he looked shellshocked, the wins at Sunderland, Liverpool & Norwich were against the pattern for the season to date, the real Villa has been seen in the games against Reading, Southampton, Chelsea, Spurs, Stoke, Norwich (home) etc...... Toothless & likely to implode when put under pressure. At the moment you couldn't rely on us beating anyone.

I don't think 3 years of cutbacks can be or will be addressed in January, but we have to sign 2 experienced midfielders, centre half, left back, a forward & hope that our experienced players play more games in the 2nd half of the season. Lambert has got his work cut out to find these in January, with the overwhelming priority being the midfield. Otherwise it's going to be a long 2nd half of the season.
UTV
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 08:26:17 PM
Here lies the problem. Who is going to want to come to us and at what price. Who is out there in January ? Me personally, Robbie Keane is a player i would have like a shot again.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Clampy on December 27, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
We'd do well to get Paul Carrick
As long as you were looking back over your shoulder, you mght just stand a chance ;D

But How Long would we be able to keep him for?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 27, 2012, 08:34:09 PM
Who are the seasoned Premier League players sat on the bench that could come in and improve the first team?


Bent, Given, Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Hutton and Warnock all have bags of experience at the top level.  No, they're not the most talented players in the world but they're no worse than the players we're putting out there at the moment and the addition of some experience to the first team would probably improve the performances of the young players out there at the same time.

Hutton and Warnock were immediately jettisoned.  Bent, Given and NZogbia haven't really been given a chance by Lambert.  Dunne's obviously been injured and Ireland's been used sparingly.  I'd say the kids have been given much more opportunity than any of the older players.  I'd be quite happy to applaud this approach if we were midtable but as we're flirting with relegation and have suffered the worst defeat in our history followed by a 4-0 thumping at home I think it's fair game to question the manager's decisions.

Warnock was jettisoned by Lambert having proven himself not to be up to it under previous managers.

N'Zogbia has also spent a lot of time injured, along with Dunne. Given has lost his place to a player who has done very, very well. We can't play them both.

Bent has not been selected much, and until a few days ago, the entire world was saying Lambert was right to opt for Benteke and Weimann up front instead of using Bent.

As for Hutton - he's a right back, as is Lowton, and it's hard to argue that Lowton has been anything but solid so far this season. He's certainly looked far better than Hutton ever did for us.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, we can not expect to play a team full of kids and do well, we absolutely need experience. I just think the experienced players we have available are not good enough, or have not been available for much of the season.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 27, 2012, 08:35:13 PM
Here lies the problem. Who is going to want to come to us and at what price. Who is out there in January ? Me personally, Robbie Keane is a player i would have like a shot again.

We say that all the time, though, who would come.

People will always come. We said that under Houllier, and then Bent rocked up.

Our advantage in our struggles is that we're Aston Villa. We still manage to attract decent players and decent managers.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: ROBBO on December 27, 2012, 08:47:03 PM
I wish we had drawn the last three rather than beat Plop then we wouldn't have all the hand wringing. Lambert isn't a mug he sees the same players make the same mistakes as we do and he would know where we need to strengthen.Put Vlar and Dunne in defence and we are stronger already, why we have so many injuries needs looking at. Midfield has been our nemesis since Lerner bought the club and its never been addressed Stan was good for a while but his legs went, Westwood for me looks slow but he is the best we've got right now, Delph has had too many chances and Kea is just not up to prem standard. Benteke will be brilliant for us, forget the last two games he was an onlooker for most of the game. Injured players back and two class midfielders and we will be a different side.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: hawkeye on December 27, 2012, 08:48:09 PM
we hardly have a player that has completed a season in the PL, equals lack of experience and vulnerability to fatigue.

He has to address this and  the  serious problems at right back and central midfield.

He might want to consider fielding an experimental team against Ipwsich because we do not need another cup run.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 08:50:54 PM
We'd do well to get Paul Carrick
As long as you were looking back over your shoulder, you mght just stand a chance ;D

But How Long would we be able to keep him for?
On form there Clampy. Any Day Now is my guess ::)
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: IFWaters on December 27, 2012, 09:28:11 PM
Who are the seasoned Premier League players sat on the bench that could come in and improve the first team?


Bent, Given, Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Hutton and Warnock all have bags of experience at the top level.  No, they're not the most talented players in the world but they're no worse than the players we're putting out there at the moment and the addition of some experience to the first team would probably improve the performances of the young players out there at the same time.

Hutton and Warnock were immediately jettisoned.  Bent, Given and NZogbia haven't really been given a chance by Lambert.  Dunne's obviously been injured and Ireland's been used sparingly.  I'd say the kids have been given much more opportunity than any of the older players.  I'd be quite happy to applaud this approach if we were midtable but as we're flirting with relegation and have suffered the worst defeat in our history followed by a 4-0 thumping at home I think it's fair game to question the manager's decisions.

Questioning his decisions is fair enough.

I think it's a real stretch of the imagination to look at that list and see who might have helped.

They might have experience, but I would rank Warnock, Hutton, N'Zogbia and Ireland as only marginally better options than getting rid of the physio, loaning Yakubu or getting Petrov to do the team talks. In fact I'd say playing some of them would be more likely to have an overall negative effect on our predicament. .

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Pete3206 on December 27, 2012, 09:31:48 PM
we hardly have a player that has completed a season in the PL, equals lack of experience and vulnerability to fatigue.

He has to address this and  the  serious problems at right back and central midfield.

He might want to consider fielding an experimental team against Ipwsich because we do not need another cup run.

Agree on first 2 points, but I'd like us to go as far as possible in the FA Cup
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 09:34:55 PM
we hardly have a player that has completed a season in the PL, equals lack of experience and vulnerability to fatigue.

He has to address this and  the  serious problems at right back and central midfield.

He might want to consider fielding an experimental team against Ipwsich because we do not need another cup run.

Agree on first 2 points, but I'd like us to go as far as possible in the FA Cup
The final would be good. Beating Chelsea 5 fucking nil in the process.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bob on December 27, 2012, 09:37:04 PM

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.

I see your debating skills are just as clever as your suggestions.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: IFWaters on December 27, 2012, 09:40:09 PM

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.

Classic Troll tactics. Insult others then come over all Virgin Mary when it suits you.

So to repeat in Pax man like tones, What is your suggestion ?

I see your debating skills are just as clever as your suggestions.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 09:41:56 PM

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.

I see your debating skills are just as clever as your suggestions.
What , exactly is his point Bob, because i cannot see one.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Legion on December 27, 2012, 09:42:14 PM
Where has bob ever insulted anyone?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: IFWaters on December 27, 2012, 09:43:47 PM

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.

I see your debating skills are just as clever as your suggestions.
What , exactly is his point Bob, because i cannot see one.

Try reading the original posts. Parrot.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 27, 2012, 09:47:41 PM
Hopefully Paul Lambert can do his best to ensure that the younger players are not too scarred from the past two games and remind them that they have performed better only a few weeks ago and that they are capable of doing well at this level.  At the same time, I really hope he is making it clear to the more experienced players that they are the ones who are really costing the club at the moment and that some of their careers are on the line. 

Lambert himself is still an inexperienced manager, especially at the top level, so I hope he is also learning from this experience. 
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: IFWaters on December 27, 2012, 09:47:50 PM
Where has bob ever insulted anyone?

Try reading the posts. Totally disparaging and condescending to my and others suggestions, but nothing to suggest himself. Its the tactics of Ed Balls. Its all someone else's fault and he is not willing to offer a suggestion himself as to what to do. I'm just challenging it as I think its bullying and insulting behaviour.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: claret and blue blood on December 27, 2012, 09:59:47 PM
At the moment we have little or no options for the Wigan game due to injuries which don't seem to be clearing up too quickly.Lambert does look as shell shocked as the team and must be desperate to strengthen the sqad. I would guess that any plans to sign players like Westwood are shelved in favour of more experienced pros.Michael Dawson, Huddlestone and Peter crouch anyone ?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 10:07:42 PM

Wife refuse to give you a BJ?

Fuck me you are in a bad mood.

Have you got anything to suggest yourself to improve our position or are you just one of those losers who likes to sound hard by slagging off everyone else,s suggestions?

Me think you troll is.

I see your debating skills are just as clever as your suggestions.
What , exactly is his point Bob, because i cannot see one.

Try reading the original posts. Parrot.
A parrot can be taught to talk sense. You, on the other hand....................... Fucking Parrot :o
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 27, 2012, 10:11:54 PM
Pack it in, please. It is still, just about, Winterval.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on December 27, 2012, 10:15:12 PM
No arguing please, life is bad enough with the Council ordering me to take my St George flag down off my roof.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: danlanza on December 27, 2012, 10:19:13 PM
Ok. Done. But no parrots, please.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: villan from luton on December 27, 2012, 10:24:17 PM
Lambert has somehow got to instill some confidence back into these young lads. He has little options to turn to due to injuries and we really need to get a result at the weekend. I dont lie the negative attitude from last night and just think it added to the pressure on the youngsters. I agree we need to get some experience on board and am sure the manager knows that as well.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: ozzjim on December 27, 2012, 11:16:08 PM
Paul Lambert is no mug, he has played in top, top teams, and has managed Norwich to 2 promotions followed by a very creditable 12th in the league last season. He needs to be backed in the January window for certain, we need both bodies and some experience, everyone can see that.

We need to be able to stretch sides going forward which without Gabby or Weimann working the channels we can't so a forward option in that ilk, a midfield player in the big hard destructive mould and a centre half that can hold the hand and lead from the back with Vlaar, Clark and Baker would be great. The better players need to be rotated and it not affect the side too much too, so we are fresher and can track and tackle late into games.

There is a lot of work, but I am much more convinced that he is the man for the job than anyone else right now, and I don't buy into Lerner not being interested. His actions last summer, which as his latest are what I will judge him on into this window, were positive. As such lets see how he backs Lambert this winter. If he doesn't, then obviously we will be in trouble.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: SamTheMouse on December 27, 2012, 11:37:47 PM
Having all these youngsters is great, and I applaud the long term thinking. Signing 'em young and building them up is the only way to get Villa back to the top table without risking the club's financial health. But if you sign a load of kids for tomorrow, and have to play them all straight away, then your team isn't going to be good enough to stay up today.

All we need is some experience - particularly in the middle, where Lambert has made his only bad signing in KEA, who isn't up to it. A couple of older heads in the middle of the park and maybe a full back, hardened Premier League battlers preferably, would shore us up no end, and if PL can get Villa to boring midtable security for a few seasons, it'll give the kids time to blossom.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: OCD on December 27, 2012, 11:51:43 PM
I wouldn't write KEA off just yet. Stan had an awesome debut but then did very little for 2 seasons before again re-emerging as a Premier League quality player. KEA could still come good, it's just that in these circumstances we don't have the luxury of players having time to settle.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: bertlambshank on December 28, 2012, 12:19:47 AM
I wouldn't write KEA off just yet. Stan had an awesome debut but then did very little for 2 seasons before again re-emerging as a Premier League quality player. KEA could still come good, it's just that in these circumstances we don't have the luxury of players having time to settle.
KEA needs to put some weight on.He tackles with his arms.Watch him it's funny.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Dave Clark Five on December 28, 2012, 12:27:22 AM
I wouldn't write KEA off just yet. Stan had an awesome debut but then did very little for 2 seasons before again re-emerging as a Premier League quality player. KEA could still come good, it's just that in these circumstances we don't have the luxury of players having time to settle.
KEA needs to put some weight on.He tackles with his arms.Watch him it's funny.

Hence Brian Green's post likening him to 'the arse end of a pantomime horse'.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2012, 12:35:18 AM
There is a lot of work, but I am much more convinced that he is the man for the job than anyone else right now, and I don't buy into Lerner not being interested. His actions last summer, which as his latest are what I will judge him on into this window, were positive. As such lets see how he backs Lambert this winter. If he doesn't, then obviously we will be in trouble.

Agree with that.  I shudder to think who would be next through the door if we were back in the market for a manager.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Des Little on December 28, 2012, 12:53:23 AM
I wouldn't write KEA off just yet. Stan had an awesome debut but then did very little for 2 seasons before again re-emerging as a Premier League quality player. KEA could still come good, it's just that in these circumstances we don't have the luxury of players having time to settle.
KEA needs to put some weight on.He tackles with


He definitely needs a bowl of soup. There's nothing to him.
Hence Brian Green's post likening him to 'the arse end of a pantomime horse'.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 28, 2012, 01:09:15 AM
1.  Sign a player, or two in January
2.  Survive this season
3.  Decide which of our youngsters are good enough
4.  Shed the dead wood.
5.  Buy youngsters

...Repeat.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: boozey182 on December 28, 2012, 01:29:34 AM
I think a comparison between KEA and Stan is very accurate; when they get a chance to sit as a holding man, breaking up possession and keeping the ball  they are excellent. Stan was under-appreciated for years at Villa and I fear that KEA might suffer the same fate. He's a great footballer and he will come good. Our problems lie elsewhere if you ask me.....
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: boozey182 on December 28, 2012, 01:37:34 AM
I think a comparison between KEA and Stan is very accurate; when they get a chance to sit as a holding man, breaking up possession and keeping the ball  they are excellent. Stan was under-appreciated for years at Villa and I fear that KEA might suffer the same fate. He's a great footballer and he will come good. Our problems lie elsewhere if you ask me.....

Just checked and nobody asked me. Apologies for the intrusion.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'Zimidy on December 28, 2012, 01:43:32 AM
In response to the thread title I hope that Lambert does the complete opposite of what some people in this thread have suggested to bring in the motherboard of crap old players like Parker, Lampard, Arshavin or even worse; Yakubu.

All we need is an attacking midfielder, a central midfielder and if the right player is available, a left back. We should definitely keep with the ethos and get in players no older than twenty five and certainly not from the Premier League. I'd much rather finish 16th with our group of young players who will improve rather than a bunch of expensive ageing players finishing 15th.

If you think Parker and lampard are crap I'd hate to know what you think of our players!

But what exactly do we get out of these ancient relics of players? We could bring in 3/4 quality youngsters for the wages we'd be paying someone like Super Scott or Fat Frank. At the end of the day, they're a massive money sink and they'll be clogging up the bench along with Dunne, Warnock, Hutton and Given when they hit the 2nd and 3rd year of their inevitably long contract. They'll also be taking game time ahead of promising player and for what? We'll probably finish a place or two higher on the league table but at the end of the day, we're finishing bottom half and we're not getting relegated. We might as well continue to build for the future by bringing in players under the age of 25 in January rather than MON's style of buying 30+ year old British players.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2012, 02:34:44 AM
In response to the thread title I hope that Lambert does the complete opposite of what some people in this thread have suggested to bring in the motherboard of crap old players like Parker, Lampard, Arshavin or even worse; Yakubu.

All we need is an attacking midfielder, a central midfielder and if the right player is available, a left back. We should definitely keep with the ethos and get in players no older than twenty five and certainly not from the Premier League. I'd much rather finish 16th with our group of young players who will improve rather than a bunch of expensive ageing players finishing 15th.

If you think Parker and lampard are crap I'd hate to know what you think of our players!

But what exactly do we get out of these ancient relics of players? We could bring in 3/4 quality youngsters for the wages we'd be paying someone like Super Scott or Fat Frank. At the end of the day, they're a massive money sink and they'll be clogging up the bench along with Dunne, Warnock, Hutton and Given when they hit the 2nd and 3rd year of their inevitably long contract. They'll also be taking game time ahead of promising player and for what? We'll probably finish a place or two higher on the league table but at the end of the day, we're finishing bottom half and we're not getting relegated. We might as well continue to build for the future by bringing in players under the age of 25 in January rather than MON's style of buying 30+ year old British players.

I don't quite understand this opinion that every British player either over or approaching the age of 30 is a mercenary who is only interested in picking up their wages. 
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'Zimidy on December 28, 2012, 03:22:11 AM

I don't quite understand this opinion that every British player either over or approaching the age of 30 is a mercenary who is only interested in picking up their wages.

Even if they put in the effort and do well for us I think you're missing many of my points.

1. No resale value
2. Keeping youngsters out of the side
3. Massive wages
4. Decline in performances / fitness over the length of the contract
5. Can't get them off the wage bill
6. We aren't getting relegated so what's the point in panic buying for a quick fix - invest in our youth and focus on going forward rather than stagnating
7. I would much rather finish 16th and build in the summer with the money rather than buying in 30 year olds to get us to 15th and in the process waste millions that we desperately need

If there was a real threat of relegation then I would be all for bringing in somebody like Benayoun or Arshavin but we aren't and the money we spend on such players and the 50k a week contracts over 3 years we give them will continue to suck us down into the lower half of the table.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Tuscans on December 28, 2012, 03:26:29 AM
The last 2 games reminded me of a under 9's match where every player sprints after the ball and leaves the opposing players free to score at will. What happened to good ole man marking like the italians were so famous for in the 80's...it worked!
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 28, 2012, 04:28:26 AM

I don't quite understand this opinion that every British player either over or approaching the age of 30 is a mercenary who is only interested in picking up their wages.

Even if they put in the effort and do well for us I think you're missing many of my points.

1. No resale value
2. Keeping youngsters out of the side
3. Massive wages
4. Decline in performances / fitness over the length of the contract
5. Can't get them off the wage bill
6. We aren't getting relegated so what's the point in panic buying for a quick fix - invest in our youth and focus on going forward rather than stagnating
7. I would much rather finish 16th and build in the summer with the money rather than buying in 30 year olds to get us to 15th and in the process waste millions that we desperately need

If there was a real threat of relegation then I would be all for bringing in somebody like Benayoun or Arshavin but we aren't and the money we spend on such players and the 50k a week contracts over 3 years we give them will continue to suck us down into the lower half of the table.

I'm probably in a minority but I agree. 
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2012, 06:02:37 AM

I don't quite understand this opinion that every British player either over or approaching the age of 30 is a mercenary who is only interested in picking up their wages.

Even if they put in the effort and do well for us I think you're missing many of my points.

1. No resale value
2. Keeping youngsters out of the side
3. Massive wages
4. Decline in performances / fitness over the length of the contract
5. Can't get them off the wage bill
6. We aren't getting relegated so what's the point in panic buying for a quick fix - invest in our youth and focus on going forward rather than stagnating
7. I would much rather finish 16th and build in the summer with the money rather than buying in 30 year olds to get us to 15th and in the process waste millions that we desperately need

If there was a real threat of relegation then I would be all for bringing in somebody like Benayoun or Arshavin but we aren't and the money we spend on such players and the 50k a week contracts over 3 years we give them will continue to suck us down into the lower half of the table.

1) Sometimes you just get value for money even if their resale value is nil.  Compare the likes of Merson and Dublin, to say Curtis Davies and Delph.  Years of great service from two older players, compared to bright young things, who turned out to be shite....with no resale value.
2) A lot of our youngsters shouldn't be in the side as often as they are, so not necessarily a problem.
3) Not necessarily, although even if true, if it's the difference between staying up and going down, the wages are a non-issue
4) That can be true of young players as well, if they're not very good.
5) Again, that's true of any player if they turn out to be shit.  At least with older players you have some sort of history to go by.
6) We might get relegated, it's a very real threat.  We've got loads of youth, so one or two older heads shouldn't stop them developing, and indeed should help.  We risk ruining the good young players we do have by destroying their confidence.\
7) Fair point, but I'd rather buy a couple of more experienced players and stay up, than stick with the current squad and risk going down.  At which point any good young players like Benteke would be off like a shot to  better club.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: ozzjim on December 28, 2012, 07:23:15 AM
The likes of Benteke will be off when the big boys come calling anyway, it is one of the sad facts of football in 2012.

I agree totally re the likes of Merson and Dublin, the likes of Colin Calderwood, Ronny Johnson and Stan Staunton second time have all given us experience, quality and bodies when we have needed them. We need to pick up 2-3 like that, that can come in, add quality and experience for a couple of seasons without breaking the bank totally.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: OzVilla on December 28, 2012, 07:28:58 AM
I'd like us to go for Dawson, Huddlestone, Parker and Benayoun - even if some are loans with a view to permanent.

If they have some others up their sleeve too then that'd be great.

We'd get our quality and experience and presence out of that lot and they'd all be wanting first team football.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Rigadon on December 28, 2012, 07:45:27 AM
I'd like us to go for Dawson, Huddlestone, Parker and Benayoun - even if some are loans with a view to permanent.

If they have some others up their sleeve too then that'd be great.

We'd get our quality and experience and presence out of that lot and they'd all be wanting first team football.

That's a petty good list.  Some of the wages might be a problem though. 
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Ian J on December 28, 2012, 07:51:11 AM
It's plainly obvious we need some experience, but it needs to be experience that fits into a system that suits the way Lambert is trying to play. This will be key. He is not going to add experienced heads into a team who are not natural footballers. Hopefully his scouts have been searching since August and early in January it will be rectified asap. We do need to act quick and get some players in to steady things and bring back confidence.

I still have the utmost faith in what Lambert is trying to do, I'm not angry and not even that worried about our situation. Maybe I should be but for some reason which I have no idea why I'm still confident Lambert will get it right.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 07:56:23 AM
I'd like us to go for Dawson, Huddlestone, Parker and Benayoun - even if some are loans with a view to permanent.

If they have some others up their sleeve too then that'd be great.

We'd get our quality and experience and presence out of that lot and they'd all be wanting first team football.

All of those players are the sort of quality and experience we need.

Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: brian green on December 28, 2012, 08:07:55 AM
I am with N'Zimidy on this one.   All the points he makes are valid ones but two important ones are missing.

Players like Lampard and Parker have very active and potentially very troublesome agents.   Big name players are very hard to manage and almost impossible to discipline.

Clubs like ours often are seen as fair game for players who should have retired and are in effect burned out.   Michael Owen is a classic case in point.

If we start buying old has-beens who spend most of their time in the treatment room and playing as though they are doing us a big favour turning up at all that will be the end of my 70 year love affair with Aston Villa.   Everybody has a breaking point and that would be mine.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 08:11:48 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: DB on December 28, 2012, 08:37:14 AM
I am with N'Zimidy on this one.   All the points he makes are valid ones but two important ones are missing.

Players like Lampard and Parker have very active and potentially very troublesome agents.   Big name players are very hard to manage and almost impossible to discipline.

Clubs like ours often are seen as fair game for players who should have retired and are in effect burned out.   Michael Owen is a classic case in point.

If we start buying old has-beens who spend most of their time in the treatment room and playing as though they are doing us a big favour turning up at all that will be the end of my 70 year love affair with Aston Villa.   Everybody has a breaking point and that would be mine.

I have never heard any bad stories around Parker and Lampard. They would be doing us a big favour, if they can help stop us being relegated! I don't think they would ever come but we need experience not more youth players.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2012, 08:41:07 AM
We're not going to get PArker. Huddlestone, maybe? He was going to Stoke at the end of August but that fell through.
I think we missed a trick getting N'Zonzi from Blackburn. He is exactly the type of player we need.
Benayoun could add some guile to the middle of the park. He could do a very good job for us.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2012, 08:42:30 AM
The type of players we need are Kevin Nolan, Michael Dawson & Darren Gibson. Solid Pro's. Obviously, we're not going to get those 3, but that's the type we need.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Villafirst on December 28, 2012, 08:46:41 AM
So it seems Randy has to bail out another manager in the January window. Its becoming a theme. He must be wondering when the club is going to stand on its own two feet.

who sold the best players and didn't reinvest in quality players?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 09:00:10 AM
The type of players we need are Kevin Nolan, Michael Dawson & Darren Gibson. Solid Pro's. Obviously, we're not going to get those 3, but that's the type we need.

Dawson may be available.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2012, 09:13:30 AM
QPR might fancy him.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: paul_e on December 28, 2012, 09:14:20 AM
The type of players we need are Kevin Nolan, Michael Dawson & Darren Gibson. Solid Pro's. Obviously, we're not going to get those 3, but that's the type we need.

Dear lord, Darren Gibson, really?

Nolan would be a good shout to add goal from midfield.

Dawson seems to be a bit too injury prone for my liking.

From above:

Parker - spot on, would be a good signing, unfortunately if he leaves I see 'arry going for him and I get the feeling he'd rather stay in London.
Huddlestone - Jenas mkII - no way he'd last until the summer without an injury, too big a risk.
Benayoun - Could be a very good signing on loan for a few months, not sure I'd want him long term though, which rules him out as Chelsea wouldn't recall him to loan him out to someone else.

For the more defensive midfield option I'd be tempted to see if we can get Darren Fletcher on loan.  He's struggling to get games at Man U after being out for nearly a year so they might like him to get some game time and he's a leader on the pitch, 5 months of him alongside Westwood or Bannan would give us extra experience of being successful in the league and would help their progress immensely.

Further forward I think I'd look abroad as I don't think there's enough value in the attacking midfield options we could realistically get.

In defence I think we only need someone if it looks likely that Dunne isn't going to recover.  If Dunne can get fit we have what we need, at left back we need to give Bennett and Stevens a bit more of a chance before we sign a replacement.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: supertom on December 28, 2012, 09:33:11 AM
We need more quality.
We need more experience.

Lambert for me is often tactically naive, which alongside such a young side can result in the kind of tonkings we've experienced this season. A DOF would be good, or a better defensive coach.

We looked potentially good, but just as much, we look potentially disastrous. We could rise. The ship could sink. Or worst case it could sink catastrophically like Leeds Utd.

My head says that we're hedging our bets on there being 3 worse sides than us. Dangerous game.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2012, 09:44:39 AM
1.  Sign a player, or two in January
2.  Survive this season
3.  Decide which of our youngsters are good enough
4.  Shed the dead wood.
5.  Buy youngsters

...Repeat.

Spot on.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2012, 09:45:23 AM
I think a comparison between KEA and Stan is very accurate; when they get a chance to sit as a holding man, breaking up possession and keeping the ball  they are excellent. Stan was under-appreciated for years at Villa and I fear that KEA might suffer the same fate. He's a great footballer and he will come good. Our problems lie elsewhere if you ask me.....

Just checked and nobody asked me. Apologies for the intrusion.

Where do our problems lie?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: LeeB on December 28, 2012, 09:53:20 AM
We need more quality.
We need more experience.

Lambert for me is often tactically naive, which alongside such a young side can result in the kind of tonkings we've experienced this season. A DOF would be good, or a better defensive coach.

We looked potentially good, but just as much, we look potentially disastrous. We could rise. The ship could sink. Or worst case it could sink catastrophically like Leeds Utd.

My head says that we're hedging our bets on there being 3 worse sides than us. Dangerous game.

I don't think he is tactically naive.

He might have been outflanked in the last couple of games, but the margins he's working within are much more narrow than his opponents.

I think we're paying the price for being brave, and for trying to go and win games, something we all insisted on after last season.

The flipside is that this approach will turn more of last seasons draws into wins, and we'll have enough to stay up.

I wouldn't be against bringing in an experienced head, but would be very cautious for the reasons outlined by N'Zimidy.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Boz on December 28, 2012, 10:00:07 AM
The type of players we need are Kevin Nolan, Michael Dawson & Darren Gibson. Solid Pro's. Obviously, we're not going to get those 3, but that's the type we need.

Dawson may be available.

Injury prone and will probably want to stay in the Smoke
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: paul_e on December 28, 2012, 10:01:33 AM
As I said in the post match thread I think he was under-prepared for both chelsea and tottenham.  Chelsea by not having any idea how to deal with their attacking midfield if they didn't track back (Rafa called his bluff), and Tottenham for having a great plan to stifle Bale with 5 at the back (Herd got very close to him in the first half) but having nothing setup if we changed to a 4.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Boz on December 28, 2012, 10:05:45 AM
So it seems Randy has to bail out another manager in the January window. Its becoming a theme. He must be wondering when the club is going to stand on its own two feet.

who sold the best players and didn't reinvest in quality players?

The players sold wanted to go, so there was no choice. No good keeping unhappy players.

Regarding investment, the manager of the day says who he wants and has to convince Lerner, plus the players wanted have to agree to come to B6, something that's not going to be easy in January.

Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
That's why Bent will leave next month. But, we have to reinvest it right. We won't kep getting away with not replacing quality and keeping our head above water. It will catch up with us in the end.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 28, 2012, 11:14:21 AM
I know we've lowered the wage bill - but in Given, Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, N'Zogbia, Ireland and Bent we have a group of players that are paid top 6 wages and, for a variety of reasons, not contributing at all to the current team.



well half of them when fit wont be played by Lambert and the other we need to get rid , who is  going to have them on their wages?   

Lambert seems to want to do it his way of just playing his young players which is fine If you want to play in the championship but he needs to stop being a little stubborn and get some experience in there quick , when they are actually fit to play.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 11:19:15 AM
The type of players we need are Kevin Nolan, Michael Dawson & Darren Gibson. Solid Pro's. Obviously, we're not going to get those 3, but that's the type we need.

Dawson may be available.

Injury prone and will probably want to stay in the Smoke

Why would he? He went there from forest so no reason he wouldn't leave London .
Dawson is now fit again , when it comes to injury prone it could be said about many players including Vlaar , nzogbia etc but sometimes you have to take a chance on a player .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 28, 2012, 11:20:02 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.

you really think Villa will pay 100,000 a week to an injury prone footballer ?
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 11:21:40 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.

you really think Villa will pay 100,000 a week to an injury prone footballer ?

No I don't think it will happen but Parker is the type  of player we should be looking at .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 28, 2012, 11:24:08 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.

you really think Villa will pay 100,000 a week to an injury prone footballer ?

No I don't think it will happen but Parker is the type  of player we should be looking at .

true but it will be a 21 year old version on 15,000 a week .  not want we really need at the moment

PL has been looking at Luke Murphy at Crewe , not sure what position he plays
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: eastie on December 28, 2012, 11:33:19 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.

you really think Villa will pay 100,000 a week to an injury prone footballer ?

No I don't think it will happen but Parker is the type  of player we should be looking at .

true but it will be a 21 year old version on 15,000 a week .  not want we really need at the moment

PL has been looking at Luke Murphy at Crewe , not sure what position he plays

Midfielder, would probably slot in well with Westwood knowing each others game, but again a young player lacking experience.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 28, 2012, 11:38:04 AM
I think Parker and lampard who were mentioned are both great pros and far less maintenance than the likes of Ireland and nzogbia who both have reputations for being awkward to say the least.

Lampard would not come here in any case but if if Parker did I think he would set a great example to younger players rather than being a prima Donna.

you really think Villa will pay 100,000 a week to an injury prone footballer ?

No I don't think it will happen but Parker is the type  of player we should be looking at .

true but it will be a 21 year old version on 15,000 a week .  not want we really need at the moment

PL has been looking at Luke Murphy at Crewe , not sure what position he plays

Midfielder, would probably slot in well with Westwood knowing each others game, but again a young player lacking experience.

I cant get any inside information anymore neither . My mate who worked at Villa as been headhunted by Liverpool , offered more money and hes gone there .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
Wilson Palascsios at Stoke will be available. Not the best player, but he could add some bite and experience in the middle of the park.
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: Concrete John on December 28, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
I cant get any inside information anymore neither . My mate who worked at Villa as been headhunted by Liverpool , offered more money and hes gone there.

Fuck me - we can't even afford to keep our ITKs now!!
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on December 28, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
I cant get any inside information anymore neither . My mate who worked at Villa as been headhunted by Liverpool , offered more money and hes gone there.

Fuck me - we can't even afford to keep our ITKs now!!

so true mate , nice paid apartment on the docks , more money etc etc .     I'm gutted to be honest , I dont want to know about those f**kers.

He has been a good servant to Villa over the years , even stayed at Villa when MON f**ked off ( he always worked for MON before ) .
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2012, 06:38:41 PM

I don't quite understand this opinion that every British player either over or approaching the age of 30 is a mercenary who is only interested in picking up their wages.

Even if they put in the effort and do well for us I think you're missing many of my points.

1. No resale value
2. Keeping youngsters out of the side
3. Massive wages
4. Decline in performances / fitness over the length of the contract
5. Can't get them off the wage bill
6. We aren't getting relegated so what's the point in panic buying for a quick fix - invest in our youth and focus on going forward rather than stagnating
7. I would much rather finish 16th and build in the summer with the money rather than buying in 30 year olds to get us to 15th and in the process waste millions that we desperately need

If there was a real threat of relegation then I would be all for bringing in somebody like Benayoun or Arshavin but we aren't and the money we spend on such players and the 50k a week contracts over 3 years we give them will continue to suck us down into the lower half of the table.

1) Sometimes you just get value for money even if their resale value is nil.  Compare the likes of Merson and Dublin, to say Curtis Davies and Delph.  Years of great service from two older players, compared to bright young things, who turned out to be shite....with no resale value.
2) A lot of our youngsters shouldn't be in the side as often as they are, so not necessarily a problem.
3) Not necessarily, although even if true, if it's the difference between staying up and going down, the wages are a non-issue
4) That can be true of young players as well, if they're not very good.
5) Again, that's true of any player if they turn out to be shit.  At least with older players you have some sort of history to go by.
6) We might get relegated, it's a very real threat.  We've got loads of youth, so one or two older heads shouldn't stop them developing, and indeed should help.  We risk ruining the good young players we do have by destroying their confidence.\
7) Fair point, but I'd rather buy a couple of more experienced players and stay up, than stick with the current squad and risk going down.  At which point any good young players like Benteke would be off like a shot to  better club.

Agree with all of that Riss. 

N'Zimidy - I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure how anyone can look at our current situation and be so adamant that we will not be relegated.  Also, using your logic, do you think Man Utd shouldn't have signed Van Persie earlier this season as it would keep the likes of Welbeck out of the side?   
Title: Re: How can Lambert get it right?
Post by: hawkeye on December 28, 2012, 07:00:47 PM
I cant get any inside information anymore neither . My mate who worked at Villa as been headhunted by Liverpool , offered more money and hes gone there.

Fuck me - we can't even afford to keep our ITKs now!!

so true mate , nice paid apartment on the docks , more money etc etc .     .

Lets hope he has invested wisely in Security and or paid off the Scally Net Work