Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Colhint on March 10, 2012, 08:45:25 PM
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Well after Andy's goal today, its seems like we have a very good crop. I don't know whats the most we have had on the pitch at any one time, or the most we have had involved in a game including subs. Have we played a game this season without one involved.
Surely if there was a league for number of acadamy players used we would piss it.
Personally I think they all have a great future, including the Fonz.
I think it is far too early to think any of them will be stars, or any will fail. I never really thought herd would make it and the Fonz would. At the moment it seems the other way around. But that could easily change again in the next 12 months. Then Bannan, all the talent but seems to want to play the killer ball all the time. I just wonder if he thinks he needs to make an impression too much. Super Marc doesn't seem so super at the moment, but the endeavour is there.
I think once we have enough points to make sure we cant go down, the pressure on them will lift and they can play with more confidene. At that point I would love to see them get a lot more game time and not be under the cosh.
I think too many kids are built up too quickly, look at Oxlade Chamberlain for example, fine player though he is. I'm sure the same was said about Theo Walcott a few years back and to me anyway hasn't hit the heights his reputation suggested.
I think if we stick with them, through this big step up to the first team it could all turn out quite good really.
Sorry about the Cider induced rant, its just we don't win very often
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Well after Andy's goal today, its seems like we have a very good crop. I don't know whats the most we have had on the pitch at any one time, or the most we have had involved in a game including subs. Have we played a game this season without one involved.
Surely if there was a league for number of acadamy players used we would piss it.
Personally I think they all have a great future, including the Fonz.
I think it is far too early to think any of them will be stars, or any will fail. I never really thought herd would make it and the Fonz would. At the moment it seems the other way around. But that could easily change again in the next 12 months. Then Bannan, all the talent but seems to want to play the killer ball all the time. I just wonder if he thinks he needs to make an impression too much. Super Marc doesn't seem so super at the moment, but the endeavour is there.
I think once we have enough points to make sure we cant go down, the pressure on them will lift and they can play with more confidene. At that point I would love to see them get a lot more game time and not be under the cosh.
I think too many kids are built up too quickly, look at Oxlade Chamberlain for example, fine player though he is. I'm sure the same was said about Theo Walcott a few years back and to me anyway hasn't hit the heights his reputation suggested.
I think if we stick with them, through this big step up to the first team it could all turn out quite good really.
Sorry about the Cider induced rant, its just we don't win very often
If your good enough your old enough, Lional Messi, only just 24 and it seems like he's been around for decades, Wayne Rooney, many more, obviously these players are the extreme examples, and to a certain extent you have to blood the perhaps not so blessed players in over time, not because of there ability but because of there confidence and standing on a pitch facing someone like Balotelli or Van Persie and not be somewhat overawed when you are playing with or against stars like these. And strength and energy levels of course IMO.
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Its a great credit to The Club to get as many players up to Pl level, wether any of them can get to the level of top PL players is another matter. I have not seen anything yet that suggest that they will.
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Understand what you are saying, but wasn't Gareth Bale a pile of crap for about 12 months in the prem, and Sturridge a rarely used sub for Man City, I'm sure there are enough of those examples aswell
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Understand what you are saying, but wasn't Gareth Bale a pile of crap for about 12 months in the prem, and Sturridge a rarely used sub for Man City, I'm sure there are enough of those examples aswell
Yep all great players have to start somewhere and find thier way. Some of our youngsters might carry on improving and really make it or they could end up like the Mooore brothers.
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I looked at the title of this thread and was about to call a constable.
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Judging by performances this season most likely to make it are Herd and Clark. I bet Herd was way down the list of Villa youngsters who would shine this season.
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As an aside, I saw Isiah Osbourne winning a penalty for the mighty Hibbees against Ayr in the Scottish cup today.Let`s hope the current crop don`t find themselves in the Gobi desert of football that is North of The Border.
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This is how I see it
Marc, confidence player, needs to play on the right, moving him to the left is doing nothing for his confidence. Could still make it, needs to get stronger.
Bannan, not sure if he has the level of discipline on and off the pitch, obvious talent but has to stop forcing the play. Jury still out.
Herd, the best prospect in my view, is playing in his correct position and if he adds stamina and a bit of compusure could be a real force.
Gardener, there have been glimpses of real talent, still yet to see if the rave reviews from his reserve and accademy days can be translated in the senior team.
Clark very decent footballer, not a central midfield player but can fill in there. Not been tested in his best position. A lack of pace is a major concern.
Fonz has talent but does not have enough of power strength pace or skill, serious doubts.
Baker Wieman Lichaj not enough appearances to be judged.
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This is how I see it
Marc, confidence player, needs to play on the right, moving him to the left is doing nothing for his confidence. Could still make it, needs to get stronger.
Bannan, not sure if he has the level of discipline on and off the pitch, obvious talent but has to stop forcing the play. Jury still out.
Herd, the best prospect in my view, is playing in his correct position and if he adds stamina and a bit of compusure could be a real force.
Gardener, there have been glimpses of real talent, still yet to see if the rave reviews from his reserve and accademy days can be translated in the senior team.
Clark very decent footballer, not a central midfield player but can fill in there. Not been tested in his best position. A lack of pace is a major concern.
Fonz has talent but does not have enough of power strength pace or skill, serious doubts.
Baker Wieman Lichaj not enough appearances to be judged.
I would agree with most of that and add that
Clark is a centre half and does not have the vision, range of passing or speed to play in midfield
Bannan I am not convinced with I cant see him playing in a 4 man midfield due to his size and I would play Ireland and Gardner ahead of him in a 5 man midfield
Gardner I would play as an attacking/box to box midfielder but not as a holding/defensive midfielder
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Still not convinced they're all make it. Herd looks the business at the moment but then albrighton did a season or so ago and he's really struggling and if we had the bodies i think he'd be taken out of the firing line. I think he will come good but that just shows what happens with youngsters - they go backwards before bouncing back and in a struggling side its not ideal when you can't rest them. Bannon looks a bit of a fanny merchant to me and needs to graft a bit more. Fonz, i think will be let go this summer - he's not sharp enough in front of goal to make it in the premier league and you can't learn that. Clark i think is progressing well, Gardner and weimann its too early to tell
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Whenever I think about the potential of our young players I think of the stick Peter Whittingham used to get from some quarters. Some just have the inner strength and self belief to go on and become outstanding players others just fall by the wayside. If I had to make a book on it as of today Herd would be favourite and Fonz the big outsider with all the others somewhere in between but it changes almost match by match.
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Whenever I think about the potential of our young players I think of the stick Peter Whittingham used to get from some quarters. Some just have the inner strength and self belief to go on and become outstanding players others just fall by the wayside. If I had to make a book on it as of today Herd would be favourite and Fonz the big outsider with all the others somewhere in between but it changes almost match by match.
Agree with this especiaially with the bold bit
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There is some great promise there. If Herd turns out to be the midfield player that we have been looking for then the future is indeed bright. As I have said before, we are going to give someone a right walloping when things click into place. Then watch them go. The delight the players showed after Weimann scored would not have been greater in a cup final. Stick with them.
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There is some great promise there. If Herd turns out to be the midfield player that we have been looking for then the future is indeed bright. As I have said before, we are going to give someone a right walloping when things click into place. Then watch them go. The delight the players showed after Weimann scored would not have been greater in a cup final. Stick with them.
Indeed. A nine player pile on with only Shay and Warnock not involved. Sure didn't strike me as a bunch of players that don't care.
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Well after Andy's goal today, its seems like we have a very good crop. I don't know whats the most we have had on the pitch at any one time, or the most we have had involved in a game including subs. Have we played a game this season without one involved.
Surely if there was a league for number of acadamy players used we would piss it.
Personally I think they all have a great future, including the Fonz.
I think it is far too early to think any of them will be stars, or any will fail. I never really thought herd would make it and the Fonz would. At the moment it seems the other way around. But that could easily change again in the next 12 months. Then Bannan, all the talent but seems to want to play the killer ball all the time. I just wonder if he thinks he needs to make an impression too much. Super Marc doesn't seem so super at the moment, but the endeavour is there.
I think once we have enough points to make sure we cant go down, the pressure on them will lift and they can play with more confidene. At that point I would love to see them get a lot more game time and not be under the cosh.
I think too many kids are built up too quickly, look at Oxlade Chamberlain for example, fine player though he is. I'm sure the same was said about Theo Walcott a few years back and to me anyway hasn't hit the heights his reputation suggested.
I think if we stick with them, through this big step up to the first team it could all turn out quite good really.
Sorry about the Cider induced rant, its just we don't win very often
If your good enough your old enough, Lional Messi, only just 24 and it seems like he's been around for decades, Wayne Rooney, many more, obviously these players are the extreme examples, and to a certain extent you have to blood the perhaps not so blessed players in over time, not because of there ability but because of there confidence and standing on a pitch facing someone like Balotelli or Van Persie and not be somewhat overawed when you are playing with or against stars like these. And strength and energy levels of course IMO.
You're. You are. FFS.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
Whilst i'd agree to a point to trying out gardner and Herd together, with Petrov maybe coming on after 60 minutes, you'd have to be a brave manager to do it, and a mite more popular than Mcleish
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I looked at the title of this thread and was about to call a constable.
And ask him to do you a painting?
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I think the difference between Herd now and Albrighton 12 months ago is that Herd has come straight back in after an injury and looked like he'd never been away, whereas Albrighton hasn't really been the same player since he went down with appendicitis.
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These lads are now the McLeish Minors.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
Whilst i'd agree to a point to trying out gardner and Herd together, with Petrov maybe coming on after 60 minutes, you'd have to be a brave manager to do it, and a mite more popular than Mcleish
My thoughts entirely about playing the kids more now we are safe..They can play without fear as the pressure is off, and if that means we lose a few games, then ok....Now is the time to do it, the sensible fans will understand, but the idiots wont!!
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I am dropping mine off at the pool as I post. #twitterfromtheshitter
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I'd say we are playing them a fair bit.
I would like to see more of Gardner. Weimann is likely to be an option from the bench. I'd want to try a different option to albrighton who I think is really struggling, but there's only bannan I could see playing there. I'm not convinced albrighton or bannan will be with us in a couple of years.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
Couldn't agree more. Bench the deadwood and give the kids a run. Would like to see Lichaj and Stevens get a chance before the end of the season.
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When players, especially young ones, have a drop in form, you have to decide whether to play them through it or rest them. It is three steps forward and two back. Managers and coaches are with them most days and know how they tick. At some point it may seem that a player is not going to make it. McLeish obviously rates Weimann and I think his judgement is very good with him. He obviously has thoughts of Albrighton improving. With Kevin Mac and Sid involved, we have excellent continuity and it bodes well.
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There is some great promise there. If Herd turns out to be the midfield player that we have been looking for then the future is indeed bright. As I have said before, we are going to give someone a right walloping when things click into place. Then watch them go. The delight the players showed after Weimann scored would not have been greater in a cup final. Stick with them.
Indeed. A nine player pile on with only Shay and Warnock not involved. Sure didn't strike me as a bunch of players that don't care.
That's what I miss the most about not being down the Villa, the crowd going ballistic and the players showing they do care.
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Understand what you are saying, but wasn't Gareth Bale a pile of crap for about 12 months in the prem, and Sturridge a rarely used sub for Man City, I'm sure there are enough of those examples aswell
That's my point some players are naturally extrovert, we have all been in the changing room before a game and we have all experienced the teams "big I am" player, in that same dressing room, you could have put Rooney on the field of play at age 10 and he would not have excepted the team or opposition stars, his mentality is, there's him and that's it and stuff everybody else and you can see that's is just in him as a person.
Some players have the ability in bucket loads but there maturity needs to be developed and providing they can take care of themselves on the pitch then the sooner they are out there and get stuck in and kicking up in the air, players like Rooney, then that "in awe" thing goes, and it comes down to the man himself, that's why you are now seeing a mature Bale, full of it and up for anything, because deep down Bale now thinks " I've seen the rest, I'm the best".
Our players are a little different because with all due respect they are, in the end bread and butter players, good team members and I'm sure there will be one or so that may turn into a quality player but in most cases if the quality was really there they would have forced there way through by now, Fonz is a good example as is Clark, on the other hand IMO Gabby crashed into the side scored v Everton on his debut at about 19 (i think) was every bit a star player at U21 England, every bit as influential as Sturridge,( if he is influential), matter of opinion there, and Gabby as never looked back until the last couple of season and then he's been phucked about with, which of course most players these days wouldn't put up with for very long.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
Couldn't agree more. Bench the deadwood and give the kids a run. Would like to see Lichaj and Stevens get a chance before the end of the season.
Same for me. We're pretty much safe now and will struggle to finish in the top 10 so final position won't be that much significant.
I think Fonz will be on the way out this summer. He's stagnating here, we recalled him from his loan at Leicester and yet he hasn't made the bench in the last two games.
Bannan I think will be another Lee Hendrie. Might forge an o.k career at Prem level without ever hitting the heights someone like Gareth Barry or modern day somone like Ciaran Clark could well hit due to off the field antics.
Albrighton is a funny one. He looked the business first half of last season and had a good spell over xmas but he's been poor for most of this season. He can't really impact much on the left but I still think there's a good player in there somewhere.
Chris Herd has really come from nowhere. Like others have said, he's not as naturally talented as a Bannan or Clark but he certainly has the desire to succeed which can be just as crucial.
Still have high hopes Clark and Gardner will blossom into top players for us.
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I agree about playing the kids more now that we're as good as safe. Might save us a fortune in transfers if we find out who will or won't have a good chance of making it. But not that finishing top 10 will be a struggle. It's 3 points away.
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I think Clark and Gardner are definitely the top ones, Herd might do alright.
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I reckon we've got the points now and should start playing Herd and Gardner as the central two. Ireland ahead of them does loads of running so they'll get support.
I'd also be tempted to give Clark some games ahead of Collins too as he could play left sided with Cuellar on the right of centre.
An extra 5 games experience could make a big difference to their development and also affect who we try and buy this summer.
Whilst i'd agree to a point to trying out gardner and Herd together, with Petrov maybe coming on after 60 minutes, you'd have to be a brave manager to do it, and a mite more popular than Mcleish
Mcleish has got nothing to lose. Petrov, Collins, Warnock, Dunne, & Heskey are finished or there about, it might be the master stroke he has been planning all along. Said with a touch of sarcasm.
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For me, the interesting bit is that McL has actually given the kids some good game-time this season, and I thinik this is partially because he has not had the senior players on the squad to do anything esle but it is also because - I speculate - that KMac is there on the bench with him. This current crop has all be through the Cowans / McAndrew / KMac process and these three know best who has the physical and mental strength to hack it inthe P'ship.
Fair play to McL for listening.
As an aside, it's also interesting that since the crowd-reaction at Wigan to his introduction, our Emile has not been used by the manager ...
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For me, the interesting bit is that McL has actually given the kids some good game-time this season, and I thinik this is partially because he has not had the senior players on the squad to do anything esle but it is also because - I speculate - that KMac is there on the bench with him. This current crop has all be through the Cowans / McAndrew / KMac process and these three know best who has the physical and
mental strength to hack it inthe P'ship.
Fair play to McL for listening.
As an aside, it's also interesting that since the crowd-reaction at Wigan to his introduction, our Emile has not been used by the manager ...
McLeish chose to have them on his first team coaching staff. It is no fluke. They are providing continuity from our excellent reserve and youth set up. We will see
the benefit of this in a very big way. Some of the kids have had a great deal of first team experience and it is beginning to tell. There was a big wave of anticipation in the Trinity when Weimann went on. Gardner is years ahead of his time. Bannan revels in his chances and the rough edges will be smoothed off.
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Houllier started it. I wasn't a huge fan but he started the process MON didn't.
So he should a large amount of credit.
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What process was that?
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What process was that?
I'd guess prioritising the use of our youngsters. Houllier and AMc have both seemed keen to utlilise players from the yoof system. Whether that's due to necessity or desire we will not know but I like it.
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Houllier started it.
Albrighton was the only one who was playing before Houllier came in but the likes of Bannan, Hogg, Clark and Delph when he came back from injury were all given decent runs under Houllier. Baker also came in from nowhere to make his debut at Wigan and I'm sure but for injury Gary Gardner and Weimann would've also played a bit last season.
Of course a lot of that was due to some horrendous injuries we had in midfield last season, who knows what MON would've done but you get a feeling we'd have seen a heskey at CB, a Warnock in midfield, players rushed back a week or two from injury and others like Sidwell asked to delay their operations.
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Luke Moore scored the winner for Swansea against Citeh today. Just a random thought about one of our kids. And Routledge got the assist.
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Without wanting to blow my own trumpet... I said that we'd do better in the long run if we let our babbies have a more important role, even if it meant we went down. Those kids know each other so well from the youth/reserves that at least they understand how each other want to play the game. The goal, whilst scrappier than Scooby Doo's stoner buddy, came because Gardner and Bannan have played together and have an understanding. Similarly Weimann put himself into that position because he knew that Gardner was going to have a pop... Trust the kids and we might just develop a team that, as Norwich and Swansea have proved this season, can play well together without having the greatest amount of talent.
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Still think Gardner is going to be the stand out player. He has all the natural talents to progress. Physical presence , natural talent along with a great desire to succeed ......
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What process was that?
I'd guess prioritising the use of our youngsters. Houllier and AMc have both seemed keen to utlilise players from the yoof system. Whether that's due to necessity or desire we will not know but I like it.
The key issue is having Kevin Mac and Sid in the dugout with the first team. The kids will show respect to them. McLeish has stepped up the use of the kids from Houllier. They are all a year older now. If you have a team that does so well in the reserves, it would be criminal not to give them a go in the first team.
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I'm sorry you're all utterly wrong - MON started it. At Moscow. You have to commend his long term vision in that respect, surely? Bend the knee all you heathens.
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The funny thing is, his success at Sunderland seems to be based on playing the likes of Colback and McClean who weren't getting a chance under Fistface. Has he learnt from his mistakes? Albrighton was our stand out player in the Peace Cup yet he didn't get a sniff that season, even after we ran out of puff in March.
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I think we'll see the best of these kids if and when they're all thrown in together. Especially Bannan. He is their leader and the likes of Albrighton, Gardner, Clark and Herd trust him and follow his orders in a way that the seniors don't. I hope it happens towards the end of this season.
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I'm not sure about Bannan being a leader.
They certainly respect his use of the ball so I suppose in that respect they get the ball to him.
But I dont think of him as a leader in the traditional sense. A captain.
Gardner does pretty much the same job as Bannan with the ball (example that laser guided cross field ball on Saturday to Bannan I think who had players around him... wow) and is perhaps better future captain material.
But for me the the real drivers amongst the youngsters are Clark and Herd. Clark is a natural leader (I thought the same of a young Alistair Cook) and Herd leads by example.
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I really rate Herd, Clark & Gardner. They'd probably make a useful 3 in the centre of the parlk, albeit Clark will end up as a centre half. As for Bannan, I'm still very unconvinced. I understand he has potential, it's clear to see, but there seems to be loads of hype about him, can't totally understand that at the moment. I think he needs to work a lot harder. As does Albrighton, his end product is either very good, or more often than not lately, very bad.
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Herd is a swashbuckling sort of player and I have high hopes for him and also the brilliant Gardner. What a presence he has! He is lethal around 25 yards out.
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Albrighton is having his difficult second album. He's no longer the new kid on the block chasing everything like a dog with two dicks and he's not really experienced either.
He has to find his game again but whether or not he takes this on will become clearer next season. I still think he's a good player.
Bannan is more enigmatic. You dont feel you can play him as one of two midfielders but his passing is mostly brilliant and that's an attractive prospect you cant ignore. He could be a luxury not worth having or the next Sid for all I know. Its very hard to tell how he'll end up.
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There was some lovely ball control from Bannan before slipping the ball to Gardner just before the goal on Saturday.
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Still confident about Albrighton. Barely involved properly until Christmas, then he had a good run throughout December and January - no coincidence it was when he was played wide right. He's comfortable there. I think he's a pretty one-dimensional player, in that he's a right winger - staying wide, running at his man, delivering a cross. He can take a chance, too. I just don't think he can adapt to different roles. That's just how it is, and that's how we should use him.
Gardner excites me. He could have had four or five goals for us by now - he gets into the box, on the end of crosses, and he's happy to strike from distance. A very positive, confident player. Could be the goalscoring central midfielder we've lacked for years.
I rate Clark, whether it's in midfield or at the back - next season I want him at CB alongside Cuellar or a new CB. Herd has surprised me. He's come on more in the last 18 months than any of his peers, arguably. A few rough edges to him, but they're smoothing out and he's developing into a promising, athletic, midfield player.
As for Bannan... can't help liking him. I hope we persevere. For me, he needs to play as the playmaker in a three-man midfield - where Ireland currently is - or even on the left side of a narrow midfield (three or four). Too much talent to give up on.
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That's Bannan's problem at the minute; Ireland (in this form) is just so good in his position.
They're no doubt competing for one place typically though.
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Selection problems? Bring them on!
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Quite.
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What I meant by 'leader' is that Bannan, dictates the play in the reserves, a conductor if you like. Were you there Monday night Maz? It was an absolute masterclass. I've gone hot and cold on Bazza many times, I'm just going through a phase at the moment where I'm more convinced that his talent will eventually shine through. Sid thinks he's our best player doesn't he?
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I think Albrighton should be taken out of the firing line for the moment. As someone has stated he made his mark purely as a wide right player. This obsession with playing wide men on the "wrong" side seems to have affected his confidence.
IMO he needs to get this restored away from the limelight but also I would think it would assist him if he played centrally in reserve or practice matches to give him a grounding and awareness of that. Nowadays with teams usually playing with three across the park either up top or centrally behind a lone striker, he needs to be able to operate more centrally at times during the game and not be stuck out standing on the whitewash.
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I agree fred. I actually think Marc could be a very useful centre-mid.
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Yeah, I was there Perce and his involvement in the first team make Bannan stand out in reserve matches now.
He was excellent.
I believe, and I could be wrong but it's what I've heard, that Sid thinks Gardner is the best of the youngsters. I agree with him.
He has something like Bannan's passing range with a lot more besides.
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next season , ok a bit inexperienced but good fun
Given
Lichay Cuellar Clarke Stevens
albrigfhton herd Gardner Nzog
Bannan
Weiman
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Herd has really suprised me .He has really come on this season and looks a good player .
Bannon , I don't know yet. I am wondering If he becomes a Peter Whittingham , a really good championship player .
Gardner and Clark will be regulars .
Marc , I really hope he makes it , not good enough at the moment but its a confidence thing. He looked awesome when he was first in the team.
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He was an unknown quantity when he first appeared on the scene, now defenders know what he will do. Pushing the ball past a defender and rushing at it is easy for the better experienced defenders to defend against. They read Marc easily. He needs to be a bit wiser with his selections and needs to develop his wing skills to really make it.
His endeavor can't be faulted though.
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Mcleish has got nothing to lose. Petrov, Collins, Warnock, Dunne, & Heskey are finished or there about, it might be the master stroke he has been planning all along. Said with a touch of sarcasm.
Would not agree about Petrov. My worry is that the midfield has tended to look completely hopeless without him this season.
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I think Petrov still has a role to play next season as an experienced squad player and I see one of Collins or Dunne staying.
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Herd I still feel is limited, but if he continues to work could be something of a Scott Parker, a player who, later in his career, becomes very useful to a top side because he does certain things very very well.
Albrighton is a talent, and those who feel he works better on the right and can't on the left would do well to remember several games, such as Wolves away recently and his breakthrough display against West Ham, where his cutting in from the left was terrific. His problem isn't the side he's cutting in from, it's confidence and decision-making. Too often he'll take on a man on the halfway line as if he were getting to the by-line, too often he'll just cross for the sake of it. He needs to start playing with his head up a bit more and his brain engaged.
Clark is great, centre-back or centre-midfield, this guy's got it. His decision-making, in contrast with Marc's, is top-notch already, he reads the game very well and is technically very assured. He's also better in the air than he's often given credit for. I think he's the 'modern', ball-playing centre-back we've been crying out for for some time.
Gardner and Bannan, I believe, are our star duo, if we know how to use them. Gardner's talents are generally applicable enough that he can play in our current, stilted system and look fine, but Bannan's main problem to me seems to be that we are not the team for him, at the moment. We don't look like a team who practices quick-fire passing triangles in training, we don't look like a team built around when to play slow and when to play fast, who understand the nuances of possession football. Bannan is a player who has the gifts to flourish in that sort of game, but who needs that training to unlock the best of him. At the moment, he looks like a loose cannon, just playing Big Passes without any sort of structure to his game. He needs other players to play off and make the runs, something which comes with training, as is the case for all playmakers at all levels: Xavi is great, but he needs Iniesta, Busquets and Villa to make the movement.
Gardner, too, would flourish in such a system. His movement, carrying the ball, shot, pass (long and short), two-footedness and determination and intelligence are all very good for his stage. However, he also has something else, something about him, a sort of X-Factor, which radiates confidence, assurance and leadership. We need to make sure we get the best out of him before someone else gets him and does so.
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Herd I still feel is limited, but if he continues to work could be something of a Scott Parker, a player who, later in his career, becomes very useful to a top side because he does certain things very very well.
Albrighton is a talent, and those who feel he works better on the right and can't on the left would do well to remember several games, such as Wolves away recently and his breakthrough display against West Ham, where his cutting in from the left was terrific. His problem isn't the side he's cutting in from, it's confidence and decision-making. Too often he'll take on a man on the halfway line as if he were getting to the by-line, too often he'll just cross for the sake of it. He needs to start playing with his head up a bit more and his brain engaged.
Clark is great, centre-back or centre-midfield, this guy's got it. His decision-making, in contrast with Marc's, is top-notch already, he reads the game very well and is technically very assured. He's also better in the air than he's often given credit for. I think he's the 'modern', ball-playing centre-back we've been crying out for for some time.
Gardner and Bannan, I believe, are our star duo, if we know how to use them. Gardner's talents are generally applicable enough that he can play in our current, stilted system and look fine, but Bannan's main problem to me seems to be that we are not the team for him, at the moment. We don't look like a team who practices quick-fire passing triangles in training, we don't look like a team built around when to play slow and when to play fast, who understand the nuances of possession football. Bannan is a player who has the gifts to flourish in that sort of game, but who needs that training to unlock the best of him. At the moment, he looks like a loose cannon, just playing Big Passes without any sort of structure to his game. He needs other players to play off and make the runs, something which comes with training, as is the case for all playmakers at all levels: Xavi is great, but he needs Iniesta, Busquets and Villa to make the movement.
Gardner, too, would flourish in such a system. His movement, carrying the ball, shot, pass (long and short), two-footedness and determination and intelligence are all very good for his stage. However, he also has something else, something about him, a sort of X-Factor, which radiates confidence, assurance and leadership. We need to make sure we get the best out of him before someone else gets him and does so.
I'd respond with two comments here, Monty; you speak - as ever - alot of sense. I'd add though that (i) if you saw Herd pinging the ball about in the first half against BRFC I'm surprised you call him limited. And, (ii) Bannan's biggest problem is his phsyique; but he'll overcome that with experience.
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next season , ok a bit inexperienced but good fun
Given
Lichay Cuellar Clarke Stevens
albrigfhton herd Gardner Nzog
Bannan
Weiman
I'd have that for the rest of the season if we get 3 points in our next match. now is the time, get rid of the old guard and build a dynasty.
I'm not going to trawl the stats, but from recent memory our youth team has pretty much been the youth team of envy for the last few seasons. If anyone over the age of 24 was to stop playing tomorrow, we'd win every week.
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Agreed. The good thing is Marc and Herd are first team regulars, and Wee Barry, Gardner and Weimann should be assured of a place on the bench and at least plenty of cameos before the season ends. Sounds like a good scenario for the McMinors(c). When is Clark back?
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Agreed. The good thing is Marc and Herd are first team regulars, and Wee Barry, Gardner and Weimann should be assured of a place on the bench and at least plenty of cameos before the season ends. Sounds like a good scenario for the McMinors(c). When is Clark back?
You may have copyrights to McMinors, Percy, but I've got the McLeish Minors.
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Agreed. The good thing is Marc and Herd are first team regulars, and Wee Barry, Gardner and Weimann should be assured of a place on the bench and at least plenty of cameos before the season ends. Sounds like a good scenario for the McMinors(c). When is Clark back?
You may have copyrights to McMinors, Percy, but I've got the McLeish Minors.
You can get ointment for that, and the use of suppositories may be indicated.
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I'd respond with two comments here, Monty; you speak - as ever - alot of sense. I'd add though that (i) if you saw Herd pinging the ball about in the first half against BRFC I'm surprised you call him limited. And, (ii) Bannan's biggest problem is his phsyique; but he'll overcome that with experience.
Oh I agree, his passing range is fine, I just feel he doesn't have the ideas about when to play what pass which would make him a truly creative player. Still, like I say, teams need his kind of player, like Scott Parker, and I am impressed with his one-and-two-touch short passing.
I disagree that Bannan's biggest problem is his physique, but he needs to utilise what he's got more, ie low centre of gravity and good close control. I don't think he's ever had a senior manager who's really played to his strengths or made a concerted effort to teach him the nuances of his position.
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With Ireland's current form, would anyone be brave/stupid enough to have Bannan as a deep lying CM. If we're playing 4231 or 433 I'd like to see him picking the ball up off the centre backs and trying to dictate the tempo of the game from there.
I think this position might suit Bannan as he'll be (mariginally) out of the hussel and bussle of the congested areas and crucially he'll be able to play with his head up and the options in front of him. I think him and Ireland could form a very creative spine down the centre of the pitch.
Look how much more effective Modric and Arteta look when they're playing this role compare to when they play on the wing or as the #10. Crucially they both have Parker/Song alongside them but I think Herd could be the ideal destructive partner for Bannan.
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Wouldn't hurt to try it at home against bus parkers.
I'd like to see us play the 'Christmas tree' formation with Bazza as the sixpence.
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With Ireland's current form, would anyone be brave/stupid enough to have Bannan as a deep lying CM. If we're playing 4231 or 433 I'd like to see him picking the ball up off the centre backs and trying to dictate the tempo of the game from there.
I think this position might suit Bannan as he'll be (mariginally) out of the hussel and bussle of the congested areas and crucially he'll be able to play with his head up and the options in front of him. I think him and Ireland could form a very creative spine down the centre of the pitch.
Look how much more effective Modric and Arteta look when they're playing this role compare to when they play on the wing or as the #10. Crucially they both have Parker/Song alongside them but I think Herd could be the ideal destructive partner for Banana.
I agree with this. Not as the 'holding player' but as the deep lying playmaker. He could also be free to press higher up the pitch with Ireland, like Swansea do, and like we did quite successfully the other day, winning the ball back higher up the pitch.
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I still think Bannan will be better long term as a deep lying playmaker rather than just off the forward. The sort of role Pirlo played to great effect for Meelan for so many years.
I'm more worried about his attitude than his ability.
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I still think Bannan will be better long term as a deep lying playmaker rather than just off the forward.
I agree to an extent. I think you need to give him the licence to roam anywhere on the pitch, that's what he's best at. telling him to play one position dose'nt suit him. I think he's got the abilty to be a class act.
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I still think Bannan will be better long term as a deep lying playmaker rather than just off the forward. The sort of role Pirlo played to great effect for Meelan for so many years.
Yeah, that is the role I was trying (but failed) to describe.
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I still think Bannan will be better long term as a deep lying playmaker rather than just off the forward.
I agree to an extent. I think you need to give him the licence to roam anywhere on the pitch, that's what he's best at. telling him to play one position dose'nt suit him. I think he's got the abilty to be a class act.
...Usually that free role is given to the #10 otherwise there'll be big holes elsewhere on the pitch.
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That width-of-the-pitch cross-field ball from Gardner just after he'd come on was a wonderful piece of skill.
GG really looks like he could be a special player, if he's not rushed too much.
Did you know the future was claret and blue?
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Gardner for England. :)
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That width-of-the-pitch cross-field ball from Gardner just after he'd come on was a wonderful piece of skill.
GG really looks like he could be a special player, if he's not rushed too much.
Did you know the future was claret and blue?
Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. The guts it took to hit that pass after just coming on, within a whisker of Fulham players and yet giving them no chance to intercept. 50-60 yards, straight to feet. What confidence.
The rest of the season is about getting him embedded in that starting XI and exposing him to as much senior football as possible as far as I'm concerned. So that next season it's all familiar to him and he can really start his career.
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It was the best pass I've seen since Bannan's to Albrighton for his goal at Fulham last season.
Although Delph also hit a beauty up the left-wing in a home game last year.
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It was the best pass I've seen since Bannan's to Albrighton for his goal at Fulham last season.
Although Delph also hit a beauty up the left-wing in a home game last year.
I remember the Delph one. It seemed a strange decision to play him at left back but it worked out very well at the time.
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It was the best pass I've seen since Bannan's to Albrighton for his goal at Fulham last season.
Although Delph also hit a beauty up the left-wing in a home game last year.
A couple of Herd's first-half passes at Blackburn were exquisite.
There's no doubting the quality of these kids and they benefit hugely from having come through the same system together over several years. And that should continue with Johnson, Grealish, Cameron, Williams and all the others coming through.
The overarching question is whether the club's footballing decision-makers can make the best of the raw / emerging talent at their disposal. To answer this, I guess I'd have to say something slightly controversial and suggest that what we currently need is managerial stability / consistency, since new managers tend to want to bring in new players rather than work with what they've got. To his credit (and because of the transfer embargo set by RL / PF), McL has used our stock of kids well so far.
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Gardner for England. :)
That would take the pressure off Redknapp.
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For me, the emergence of Herd and Gardner means that Petrov should now no longer be considered a definite starter. Those two in midfield, with Bannan, Ireland and N'Zogbia interchanging behind Gabby would be my first choice right now.
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I didn't think they played that well on Monday.
Cameron was outstanding in the NextGen tournament, constantly beating his full-back. Not a lot of pace but very skillful. He didn't do that on Monday. though he made both goals with good crosses.
Williams had a poor game as well, not physically strong enough, not good enough in the air.
Then, in the last half-hour, they suddenly played some lovely stuff and you could see what all the fuss is about -great to watch.
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It was a bit like that the Monday before. First half Newcastle looked the better side and played nice possession football. We scored just before half-time, and after the break we knocked it around beautifully, scoring another three and hitting the woodwork four times (I think).
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I still think Bannan will be better long term as a deep lying playmaker rather than just off the forward.
I agree to an extent. I think you need to give him the licence to roam anywhere on the pitch, that's what he's best at. telling him to play one position dose'nt suit him. I think he's got the abilty to be a class act.
...Usually that free role is given to the #10 otherwise there'll be big holes elsewhere on the pitch.
And that in essence is possibly the Bannan problem. Unless he can learn to play in a 442 he's always at risk of being a luxury. His ideal position would be in a 3 in a 433, but not many teams play like that.
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/7599517/New-Villa-deal-for-Johnson
Hopefully he'll get a game before the end of the season.