Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: mrbrightside on April 07, 2011, 04:52:46 PM
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First of all, this is not a slag Houiller thread, I'm sure we are all sick to death of those type of threads. Personally, i think we need to back him until the end of the season and ensure our Premier League safety. But, at the end of the season the board needs to make a very big decision.
Our squad is very strong we finally have the mythical '20 goal a season man' in Darren Bent, we have some excellent young-prospects and in Marc Albrighton one of the most exciting, young talents in the league. However, our manager has not found the right combination and I am not convinced he ever will.
When Spurzzzz appointed Harry Redknapp they had an outstanding squad (Bale, Bent, Dawson...etc) but the managers they had, Santini, Ramos could not for one reason or another get them to perform. We find ourselves now in a similar position, it is quite frankly that the squad we have is in the position we are deservedly in. Yes Jimmy Milner is a fantastic player, and yes MON was a great motivator but neither of them were THAT good!
We need a manager who will get the best out of our very good squad who will get us to play like a Premier League team, with power and pace. Modern football is built on counter-attacks and set-pieces and MON knew this and built a team that was very, very good at them.
We have a good defence, Dunne, Cuellar, Collins even Warnock were bloody brilliant under MON and fan favourites but now the majority of them have become outcasts. Why?
Vilal need a manager similar to Redknapp who understands the Premier League NOW not the Premier League 6-7 years ago because things have changed.
I would love to see us go for Owen Coyle but i can see why people are suggesting people like Allardyce, Redknapp didn't have a reputation for amazing football before he went to Spurzzz. I just see Allardyce as a man who does a job with what he has got. I mean Blackburn and Bolton are tough jobs and he got Bolton into Europe and consoldiated Blackburn after Ince destroyed them and look where they are now!
I know it is a bit of a left-field choice but i see someone like Neil Warnock as a potenital Redknapp he is old enough now to have a great knowedge of the game and could see it as his last big chance, he would certainly get the players playing for him and would have us competeing again in derbies.
Up the Villa
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We need somebody to sort the defensive mess out.
That means either getting Dunne and Collins onside and back into form, or fucking them off at the end of the season.
We also need another quality midfielder to go with Makoun, then Petrov and Delph can be the understudies.
Also a replacement needed for Ashley Young.
Then ship out the expensive dross, such as Warnock, Ireland and Beye.
Other than that, there's not too much wrong.
The truth of the matter is that we're in the position we are due to the ineptness of the Manager and his coaching staff, we could live with that, but Houlliers occasional foot in mouth remarks tend to put a bug up arses and put us on a downer.
We've still got a lot of good quality in our squad, just needs fine tuning with about 4 signings and a change of direction with the coaching.
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I agree that despite our league position we are not that far away from having a really good team BUT we could easily be relegated this year and then we would be in real trouble. If we were mid-table i think we would all be prepared to write the season off as transitional but i am very worried about relegation.
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but i am very worried about relegation.
Same here.
I'm sweating like Woodhall outside a pay toilet.
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You can't be worried, your Mr Brightside afterall !!
I would simply ask the question WHO?
There isn't anyone out there which is why we ended up with houllier all along. I'm not convinced by Coyle ok He's doing a decent job at Bolton but its a job with no pressure attatched to it. Villa is a completely different kind of animal.
I'm very meh on Moyes as well
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If Redknapp is the tactical genius everyone thinks he is, how come he hasn't replaced a keeper that is guaranteed to produce a ricket every game he plays?
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If Redknapp is the tactical genius everyone thinks he is, how come he hasn't replaced a keeper that is guaranteed to produce a ricket every game he plays?
You could say the same about wenger but you wouldnt call him a bad manager just because of the keeper
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I think Gomez is a decent keeper, at least he comes for crosses
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Let's wait & see how good Mr Redknapp is over the next few weeks hey
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It would have to be either Moyes or Coyle for me. Moyes has done a great job at Everton, but unless they can get investment then he has clearly taken them as far as he can. The only negative is that I have a fair few Everton supporting mates who complain about the style of football he plays and I can see this becoming a problem with some at Villa after a while. As for Coyle he has been a success wherever he has been and he plays a good brand of football. If he took over at the end of the season there would be little pressure on him next season as this squad should easily be capable of finishing top 8-10, and given the way this season has gone that would be acceptable progress, this would give him time to mould the squad in the way he would want it. Think I'd go for Coyle, young progressive manager to go with our young progressive squad.
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If Redknapp is the tactical genius everyone thinks he is, how come he hasn't replaced a keeper that is guaranteed to produce a ricket every game he plays?
You could say the same about wenger but you wouldnt call him a bad manager just because of the keeper
Also wouldn't call it a tactical problem. Playing Bale on the right when a) his preferred angle is the left and b) Marcelo was always just going to drive him back was a tactical mistake.
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I see Gomez like David James. Great shot stopper. He's brave, he comes out and will take a gamble, hence sometimes a glaring clanger. For probably 95% of the season you get a great keeper.
I like him and I liked James.
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If he keeps us up,he's gonna be given another few months. He's been guilty of trying to change things too quickly,but if he gets rid of the rest of the deadwood,and the ones who are causing trouble in the squad this may bring a new fresh positive air to the squad.
It seems that the younger and foreign players are happy with the new training methods and style of play,and with his supposedly new transfer policy to kick in during the summer things could settle down for the best.
Then again....
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Also wouldn't call it a tactical problem. Playing Bale on the right when a) his preferred angle is the left and b) Marcelo was always just going to drive him back was a tactical mistake.
Eh? Bale played wide left against Real.
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Not really the time or place for this discussion right now, let's save it till the seasons over, right now we need to get fully behind the manager and players and get out of this mess and then see where we are in the summer and where we go from there.
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Also wouldn't call it a tactical problem. Playing Bale on the right when a) his preferred angle is the left and b) Marcelo was always just going to drive him back was a tactical mistake.
Eh? Bale played wide left against Real.
From what I saw he started wide right, with Modric left. But Redknapp soon switched it around and put Jenas right, Modric in the middle and Bale left wing.
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Not really the time or place for this discussion right now, let's save it till the seasons over, right now we need to get fully behind the manager and players and get out of this mess and then see where we are in the summer and where we go from there.
Agreed
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The only one who comes close to a similar profile that Redknapp had pre Tottingham is Moyes.
Admittedly he hasn't moved about as much as 'arry. But he's been in the topflight for years, battling against the odds with a relatively unfancied side.
Redknapp is an interesting character, in so far as he was appointed manager of West Ham in 1994 and sacked in 2001. That's seven years at the club and -it's fair to say- none of the big clubs were beating a path to his door despite that length of time and experience in the game. In fact as recently as 2006- when he rejoined Pompey- he was rarely (if ever) linked with the better jobs. He was synonymous with relegation struggles and managing on a budget.
Who out of the current bosses of the perennial strugglers looks like they have enough about them to still be managing in the topflight in 10-12 years? And will they be actually managing bigger sides by then? If you think of the candidates - McCarthy, Mcleish, Martinez, Pulis- I'd probably say the middle two would be a decent bet.
As to who could possibly do a better job than GH, I think the latter three + the usual candidates like Hughes and Moyes would be more than capable. In fact, I genuinely can't think of too many top flight or even Championship managers who would have made more of a balls of it than the current bloke.
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The press have perpetuated this myth about Redknapp. At Bournmouth and then West Ham he didn't pull up any trees, Portsmouth in his first spell did nothing in the premier. Southampton overpaid the players and left them in the crap. Portsmouth overpaid for better players above and beyond what they could afford, won them the cup but left them in the crap. Tottenham, he took a better squad of players than O'neill left and got them playing with a bit of luck on players, ie bale and Pavulychenko (SP) and he changed the training schedule. His ability to spot a player meant he bombed out the current English centre forward.
The difference between Redknapp and Houllier is that whilst Redknapp inherited a squad of players who could play a passing game and then stole back players Tottenham had previously sold. Houllier was left with a squad assembled to play a certain way and of which only a limited number were ever likely to play. Every team in the country knew the players were unfit. Rumour has it that after the match at the weekend the players didn't train again until the Wednesday, when they would play 5 a side. This meant that the beer swilling, oil tanker circling, ball hoofing defence didn't have any stamina. This isn't a knock at O'neill, this is pointing out what Houllier inherited. So what did he try to do, he instigated extra training which the above mentioned beer swilling etc obviously didn't fancy therefore dissent in the camp. We are now trying to play a passing game which obviously is going to take time to sort out given the players and systems they were previously asked to play.
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Totally agree
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Take a close look at where Rednap left his previous clubs, as soon as he smells trouble he is off like a shot. Houllier is well connected and can bring us players that the likes of Coyle can't. As long as we avoid the drop he will be given enough time to revamp the squad and get the wage bill down.
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'Our Harry Redknapp' left in 1994.
If we look for someone other than Houllier, it is a risk whichever name you come up with. If we avoid relegation and he has a half convincing plan for team development, I'd go with Houllier for another year.
I've never rated Dunne, Collins and Warnock as anything other than competent. Our impressive defensive record last season owed much to the fact that we often used 10 players to defend.
If Houllier sorts out some proper wouldn't-give-you-a-sniff-of-their-fart defenders and deals with replacing Ashley Young successfully in the summer, he could be worth a proper shot at the job.
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Poyet
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From the rumblings I've heard, It's not houllier that's the problem. All the players, especially the younger ones really rate him. It's mcallister that everyone has beef with. That's the real reason the fight started on the team bonding exercise.
I still think houllier can do something with us. But he does need to shake up the coaching staff. mcallister wasn't houllier's first choice and I think that come the summer as long as we're ok, still up and houllier still in the job, mcallister won't be.
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That thread title makes me feel sick.
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Agree that jabba the hut is over-rated. At west ham he benefitted from the best youth system in the country and still managed to buy loads of lemons and struggle. at portsmouth he spent a fortune - won a pot but nearly bankrupted the club. well to be fair the club let him spend it. At spurs he's done a sound job, certainly better than MON but has still spent a lot and he inherited a half decent team which MON did not.
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The press have perpetuated this myth about Redknapp. At Bournmouth and then West Ham he didn't pull up any trees, Portsmouth in his first spell did nothing in the premier. Southampton overpaid the players and left them in the crap. Portsmouth overpaid for better players above and beyond what they could afford, won them the cup but left them in the crap. Tottenham, he took a better squad of players than O'neill left and got them playing with a bit of luck on players, ie bale and Pavulychenko (SP) and he changed the training schedule. His ability to spot a player meant he bombed out the current English centre forward.
The difference between Redknapp and Houllier is that whilst Redknapp inherited a squad of players who could play a passing game and then stole back players Tottenham had previously sold. Houllier was left with a squad assembled to play a certain way and of which only a limited number were ever likely to play. Every team in the country knew the players were unfit. Rumour has it that after the match at the weekend the players didn't train again until the Wednesday, when they would play 5 a side. This meant that the beer swilling, oil tanker circling, ball hoofing defence didn't have any stamina. This isn't a knock at O'neill, this is pointing out what Houllier inherited. So what did he try to do, he instigated extra training which the above mentioned beer swilling etc obviously didn't fancy therefore dissent in the camp. We are now trying to play a passing game which obviously is going to take time to sort out given the players and systems they were previously asked to play.
I don't buy into this type of thinking though, a good manager builds a tactic and style of play around what he has at his disposal. So if Houiller has a team who are not capable of playing his way then why carry on with it, when it clearly will not work. I don't particularly think Redknapp is a genius tactician but what he is very good at is getting the very best out of the players at his disposal and he knows very clearly how to set up a team to win Premier League matches.
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The answer to the question is he's probably doing 10 years in Winson Green.
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Good post MrBrightside i agree with you but the players we have are not bad players they haven't become bad players overnight i think we will be ok and hopefully come back stronger for this next season.
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Not really the time or place for this discussion right now, let's save it till the seasons over, right now we need to get fully behind the manager and players and get out of this mess and then see where we are in the summer and where we go from there.
Exactly Easie lets stay up then talk about it if there was a change after this season ends where would the pressure be, he has spent a fortune and look where we are, staring down a barrell.
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Rumour has it that after the match at the weekend the players didn't train again until the Wednesday, when they would play 5 a side. This meant that the beer swilling, oil tanker circling, ball hoofing defence didn't have any stamina.
In that case the first round is on me as we need that defence back for the next 7 games!