Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Rip Van We Go Again on April 04, 2011, 10:54:46 AM
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8 weeks left?
Let's assume this
Dunne £50k pw
Collins £40k pw
Warnock £40k pw
Beye £40k pw
Total outlay in that time - £1,360,000-ish
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Add Heskeys wages too..
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Add Heskeys wages too..
Not cheap, but I think he can feel a little harshly done by at not getting a game, he was on fire prior to his sending off.
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4 Home Games remaining
35,000 tickets @ average £22 = £770,000 x 4 = £3,080,000 income
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4 Home Games remaining
35,000 tickets @ average £22 = £770,000 x 4 = £3,080,000 income
Nearly half our gate income swallowed on those 4.
I know that's simplistic and there is a lot more to it, but still a joke nonetheless.
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yes the wages are immoral,surely it cant go on? there must be a crash or reality check soon?
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yes the wages are immoral,surely it cant go on? there must be a crash or reality check soon?
Hopefully we'll get our house in order, we can't carry on paying 88% of our turnover in wages, regardless of Randy bankrolling us.
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yes the wages are immoral,surely it cant go on? there must be a crash or reality check soon?
Hopefully we'll get our house in order, we can't carry on paying 88% of our turnover in wages, regardless of Randy bankrolling us.
If we get relegated, that 88% percentage is going to look healthy.
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Sadly whilst you've got the likes of Man City being able to pay players £200,000 a week we'll never see a crash in player wages. Clubs will just have to have smaller squads.
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I can't wait untill we can get our wages under control stupid giving them that much.
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Lets hope barcodes are playing all Irelands wages..
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Lets hope barcodes are playing all Irelands wages..
Shitting hell, I forgot about him.
Are they just paying half?
He's supposed to be on £63k pw.
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4 Home Games remaining
35,000 tickets @ average £22 = £770,000 x 4 = £3,080,000 income
Nearly half our gate income swallowed on those 4.
I know that's simplistic and there is a lot more to it, but still a joke nonetheless.
Our gate receipts are by far the smaller portion of our income compared to the TV revenue.
In many respects the 88% thing isn't just a indicator of the wages being too high, but also the turnover being to low.
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Lets hope barcodes are playing all Irelands wages..
Shitting hell, I forgot about him.
Are they just paying half?
He's supposed to be on £63k pw.
We'll also be paying a fair chunk of Carew's!
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With the move to a squad based game how much is being paid each week across the 20 clubs to blokes who don't kick a ball in anger?
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I can't wait untill we can get our wages under control stupid giving them that much.
It's not stupid giving them what is comparable to others in the league, although I can't argue with the notion Beye is lucky to be getting what he is. What is stupid is doing so and not playing them.
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With the move to a squad based game how much is being paid each week across the 20 clubs to blokes who don't kick a ball in anger?
I think you'd struggle to find many players outside of Man City earning so much for doing so little as our "outcasts".
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With the move to a squad based game how much is being paid each week across the 20 clubs to blokes who don't kick a ball in anger?
I think you'd struggle to find many players outside of Man City earning so much for doing so little as our "outcasts".
Possibly not but I was just musing on the "insanity of Premiership football" where millions of pounds are paid to players every week who don't get a game. We all recognise the need for strength in depth but this is the consequence.
On our turnover it isn't sustainable, which is why we will probably have to continue to rely on selling a top player each year..
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and a certain Ashley Young earning big money as well. Don't forget football don't rely on gate money alone, as there is fat cat boxes, corporation hospitably, food, program, TV money, club shops, away tickets, travelling coaches, advertising, radio, internet, merchandising.
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Well whatever the total the figure is quite irrelevent. The figure of 88% is all we need to know - totally unsustainable and a good reason why relegation could hit us much harder than some other Clubs that are more 'geared' towards this sort of thing.
For years we had a small squad, and moaned about it. Then a couple of years ago MON built it up and I can't recall too many posters on here complaining about these purchases (Heskey aside). Now the same people moan that MON is responsible for our position and the 88% wage/income ratio.
Now i'm as pissed off as the next fan at the fact that MON did one 5 days before the start of the season, but this figure is the responsibility of Randy, he signs the cheques after all.
If this situation had occured under Doug they'd have been hell to pay.
Other than Villa games I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good and atleast you know all the fans are genuine, not the Johnny come lately brigade and the matches are more exciting too.
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
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Yet the guy who is actually trying to do something the tackle the debt situation is seen by English football fans as a French twat who hates the English. Strange.
Only when Platini's plans for tackling the debt problem come into place in two seasons time will we possibly see things brought under control. Even Brian Marwood at Man City has hinted that their big spending now is aimed at getting City up level with the big boys by the time the new UEFA rule comes into place in 2012-13. At which point they, like everyone else who wants to play in European competition, will have to break even each year. Hopefully once the top teams stop paying out the kind of money they have been, the clubs below will also follow suit.
From what I last read, Platini is insisting that earnings does not include money put in by owners, and let's hope that is the case.
I'm sure certain clubs will find another way of topping up the bank accounts of the very top players - but at least this should put an end to the likes of Habib Beye earning mega-bucks for playing a few games of 5-a-side each week.
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Yet the guy who is actually trying to do something the tackle the debt situation is seen by English football fans as a French twat who hates the English. Strange.
He is doing so as that's the remit given to him by the club when he got the job. Any manager would want more money to spend, be it on wages or tranfer fees, as it allows him to build a better team.
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Yet the guy who is actually trying to do something the tackle the debt situation is seen by English football fans as a French twat who hates the English. Strange.
He is doing so as that's the remit given to him by the club when he got the job. Any manager would want more money to spend, be it on wages or tranfer fees, as it allows him to build a better team.
I think he was talking about Platini , not our own particular English-hating Frenchman!
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The current sillyness makes me nervous that something revolutionary is about to happen...as in taking the game global.
If clubs are spending 88% of their income of wages, then either wages drop (which will inevitably reduce the 'glamour factor' - something the FA will do anything to ensure does not happen) or income increases. And there are BILLIONS of people outside of the UK that might pay to see a Premiership game.
Future Premier League matches may be held all over the world like F1 races. I can just see a 'home' based team for the games held in England and a 'travelling' team for the glory-hunters in far-flung places.
And yes, a large percentage of traditional fans will give the game away. But if one person who leaves can be replaced by 5 others, the FA won't see a problem...in fact, it's a hell of a solution.
The reaction to the 39th game I think, was just to test the waters of the 'home' fans. I've absolutely no doubt that they're quietly gauging potential responses to non-England based games. And, with many teams going to the wall, expect something drastic to happen sooner or later.
The FA is not unlike the US military machine...if it means talking up a war and generating fear in order to justify a growing existence, so be it. Likewise, if it means the FA will have to talk up the glamour of modern football to take the game global and justify it's expensive existence, you can bet they'll do it.
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The reaction to the 39th game I think, was just to test the waters of the 'home' fans. I've absolutely no doubt that they're quietly gauging potential responses to non-England based games. And, with many teams going to the wall, expect something drastic to happen sooner or later.
The FA is not unlike the US military machine...if it means talking up a war and generating fear in order to justify a growing existence, so be it. Likewise, if it means the FA will have to talk up the glamour of modern football to take the game global and justify it's expensive existence, you can bet they'll do it.
This worries me too. If it happens it'll be the end of it for me, I just hope there are enough of us letting them know how wrong it is every time they try and sell the idea again.
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It won't be an FA decision, it will be a Premier League one.
And that worries me more.
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Future Premier League matches may be held all over the world like F1 races. I can just see a 'home' based team for the games held in England and a 'travelling' team for the glory-hunters in far-flung places.
Thank you for this. I look at what used to be Grand Prix racing and how it was hi-jacked by Ecclestone and sold world-wide as a product for television, and suddenly the future becomes clear. I look at what was Test Cricket and I see another sport that has been "re-packaged" for the world TV audience and is making fortunes for those astute enough to get in on the ground floor. I see top-flight football following a similar path.
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Yet the guy who is actually trying to do something the tackle the debt situation is seen by English football fans as a French twat who hates the English. Strange.
He is doing so as that's the remit given to him by the club when he got the job. Any manager would want more money to spend, be it on wages or tranfer fees, as it allows him to build a better team.
I think he was talking about Platini , not our own particular English-hating Frenchman!
Yes I was referring to Platini, I don't think GH has yet been accused of hating the English!
On the subject of the 39th game, where this thread has new spread to, I'm sure both UEFA and FIFA would have a big say in never letting this happen. For all their faults, one thing these organisations cannot be accused of is ignoring the plight of football in smaller nations.
UEFA have already shown this by expanding the Champions League and Europa League to allow more direct entries from smaller nations - much to the inconvenience of our own Premier League clubs who now have a very much overcrowded fixture list if they progress in Europe.
FIFA would also step in and protect the leagues of smaller nations against a money-grabbing invasion of the Premier League and its attempts to take over the world.
Both UEFA and FIFA have far more clout in protecting the interests of the little guy than our own FA appears to have.
Platini's plans to bring the debt-ridden big-spenders into line could be seen as anti-English in particular (and that is the way the Premier League would want us to see it), but I prefer to view it as a way of making sure clubs are run within their means, and so protecting the communities/supporters of those clubs.
The Premier League is run purely for the benefit of the greedy - it has to be put in its place somehow. It has to stop treating us as customers who are easily ripped off, and it has to make players, agents and the PFA realise that the days of obscene wages for average players are numbered.
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Lets hope barcodes are playing all Irelands wages..
Shitting hell, I forgot about him.
Are they just paying half?
He's supposed to be on £63k pw.
According to Pardew, he's on a pay as you play deal there.
They haven't paid a cent yet.
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If the Premier League is insane, who out of all the interested parties, is making the insane decisions?
Is it the at-the-game fans, the TV fans, the players, the managers, the club owners, the FA, the Premier League?
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Well whatever the total the figure is quite irrelevent. The figure of 88% is all we need to know - totally unsustainable and a good reason why relegation could hit us much harder than some other Clubs that are more 'geared' towards this sort of thing.
For years we had a small squad, and moaned about it. Then a couple of years ago MON built it up and I can't recall too many posters on here complaining about these purchases (Heskey aside). Now the same people moan that MON is responsible for our position and the 88% wage/income ratio.
Now i'm as pissed off as the next fan at the fact that MON did one 5 days before the start of the season, but this figure is the responsibility of Randy, he signs the cheques after all.
If this situation had occured under Doug they'd have been hell to pay.
Randy signed the cheques but O'Neill chose the players and then didn't play them or at best used them sparingly. As the ''custodian'' (his word) of Aston Villa, O'Neill's custody (which dictionary.com defines as 'keeping, guardianship, care) left a lot to be desired.
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So what is the alternative?
We currently pay what is seen as the going rate for experienced PL players, if we can't afford it then we have to do something else.
So it will be try to use home grown players, bring in cheaper imports, add the odd expensive player with a decent sell on value and hope that we can wheel and deal our way into the CL where the serious money becomes available.
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
championship footballs crap,
they dont even have any 'grand slam weekends' or 'super sundays' on sky tv, how can you take it seriously if you cant look forward to a 'clash of the titans' at 12.45 on a saturday afternoon
the prems where its at especially 'the final countdown' towards the end of the season. well exciting
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The obscene levels of money paid to Premiership football players was put in context by the news that the directors of Transocean Corporation (apologies if that is not their exact name) the partners of BP in the Mexican Gulf debacle who employed nine of the eleven killed in the oil rig explosion, deciding to give themselves big bonuses for achieving safety targets. We live in an age of fuck you where money is concerned.
Why do footballers demand and get such obscene wages? For the same reason that dogs lick their bollocks. Because they can.
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
championship footballs crap,
they dont even have any 'grand slam weekends' or 'super sundays' on sky tv, how can you take it seriously if you cant look forward to a 'clash of the titans' at 12.45 on a saturday afternoon
the prems where its at especially 'the final countdown' towards the end of the season. well exciting
Premiership football is of a far higher quality than the championship, I know in the past between toilet problems, that you've burbled on about how exciting it would be for Villa to be in it, but the fact remains that it's made up of mediocre teams playing average football.
The sort of league where Peter Whittingham can get over 20 goals.
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
championship footballs crap,
they dont even have any 'grand slam weekends' or 'super sundays' on sky tv, how can you take it seriously if you cant look forward to a 'clash of the titans' at 12.45 on a saturday afternoon
the prems where its at especially 'the final countdown' towards the end of the season. well exciting
Premiership football is of a far higher quality than the championship, I know in the past between toilet problems, that you've burbled on about how exciting it would be for Villa to be in it, but the fact remains that it's made up of mediocre teams playing average football.
The sort of league where Peter Whittingham can get over 20 goals.
no i said it crap !!
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
championship footballs crap,
they dont even have any 'grand slam weekends' or 'super sundays' on sky tv, how can you take it seriously if you cant look forward to a 'clash of the titans' at 12.45 on a saturday afternoon
the prems where its at especially 'the final countdown' towards the end of the season. well exciting
Premiership football is of a far higher quality than the championship, I know in the past between toilet problems, that you've burbled on about how exciting it would be for Villa to be in it, but the fact remains that it's made up of mediocre teams playing average football.
The sort of league where Peter Whittingham can get over 20 goals.
no i said it crap !!
Then a load of guff about Sky's presentation.
Fuck them, I haven't even got that crap and I can see beyond their hype.
Relegation would be a complete nightmare and potentially disasterous for the club.
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I now only really watch Championship matches on TV - the standard is good
Have to disagree with you there Oz, i've found it to be pretty poor, an unbelievably high amount of staid low quality games.
championship footballs crap,
they dont even have any 'grand slam weekends' or 'super sundays' on sky tv, how can you take it seriously if you cant look forward to a 'clash of the titans' at 12.45 on a saturday afternoon
the prems where its at especially 'the final countdown' towards the end of the season. well exciting
Premiership football is of a far higher quality than the championship, I know in the past between toilet problems, that you've burbled on about how exciting it would be for Villa to be in it, but the fact remains that it's made up of mediocre teams playing average football.
The sort of league where Peter Whittingham can get over 20 goals.
no i said it crap !!
Then a load of guff about Sky's presentation.
Fuck them, I haven't even got that crap and I can see beyond their hype.
Relegation would be a complete nightmare and potentially disasterous for the club.
i never said i wanted to be in the championship, but i certainly wouldnt take it as bad as you, and i dare say i'd probably enjoy it a tad more,
but hey ho, we all see things in are own way
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i never said i wanted to be in the championship, but i certainly wouldnt take it as bad as you,
In that much we agree.
I'd be devastated.
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i never said i wanted to be in the championship, but i certainly wouldnt take it as bad as you,
In that much we agree.
I'd be devastated.
yeah i know, you and plenty more others, thers nothing wrong with that, i'm not having a go, it would be a bummer for sure,
but i still cant get worked up about the 'nightmare' of going down, maybe its because i've always thought we will be ok.
looking at the weekend fixture, i have to say its a biggy, and if we lose it i might start paying more attention to our plight,
but up till now i admit my attitude is a bit like the gamblers on the titanic, its just never worried me,
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Apologies
Yes, a key game Sunday.
Need a win just to get some kind of momentum.
Newcastle are bereft of strikers, which would normally be a boost, but they still managed 4 on Sunday and we have Laurel and Hardy at centre half.
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Cloning will diverse
Aging will reverse
Insanity is slowly, creeping into our lives, yeah
Where is yesterday? Cause people ain't the same
Have we lost the faith? Or have we lost our minds
Where are we going?
Does anyone care?
Hold on to real love
There's so much to share
Do do do do do
Do do do do do
Do do do do do
This Is Insania
Do do do do do
Do do do do do
Do do do do do
This Is Insania
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One of the things that concerns me about relegation is the simple fact that I wonder if I can be arsed to go and watch us play Barnsley and Doncaster. I've done both in the past but under different circumstances, and shoot me down in flames if you will, but as several have mentioned on here, the standard of the Championship only becomes apparent when you watch enough of it. Even if we storm it and win record points, at the end of the day, all it means is that we're back where we ought to have been all along.
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The key is value. Signing players for big money without a sell on fee is lunacy. So are signing players who aren't going to be guarenteed first choices on big, long term contracts.
Beye is probably amongst our highest earners. Why did MON deem fit to sign a 31 year old on a 3 year deal to be third choice right fullback, when we've Lichaj in the reserves? Because he had a free reign and it's his reputation on the line.
The board were naive, and hopefully the new system implemented with Houllier will stay even after he's gone. Buy young, sell when the stock is high.
Spurs, Arsenal, Lyon, Sevilla, Porto all do it, and its exactly what we should be mimicking.
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Isn't this one of the reasons Houllier was appointed? too late to do anything permanently this season but if we stay up i expect many of the average players on high earnings to be gone and a regime of a few highly paid players with youth and foreign imports to make up the rest, whatever Randy is he isn't stupid.
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Aye, he should have gone after Sunderland and he should have gone after Wolves. But if he's still here at the end of the season and we're still a top flight club I imagine he'll be given the Summer to continue his good work.
Because his transfer activity so far (in and out) has been pretty good.
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Aye, he should have gone after Sunderland and he should have gone after Wolves. But if he's still here at the end of the season and we're still a top flight club I imagine he'll be given the Summer to continue his good work.
Because his transfer activity so far (in and out) has been pretty good.
I sincerely think the only thing Houllier has got right so far is the signing of Bent. If there was a way of getting another manager in after the Sunderland game and still signing him, that would have been perfect.
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Meanwhile, spare a thought for the poor, underpaid managers...
Hodgson earned £45,000 a day at Anfield after whopping £7.3m pay-out for just six months work
Roy Hodgson was given an astonishing £7.3million pay-off by Liverpool after his six month reign at Anfield.
The manager may not feel he had a chance to shine with Kenny Dalglish in the background, but he was compensated handsomely.
When Fenway Sports Group bought Liverpool in October they were reluctant to look for a new manager and the pay-off Hodgson was due must have come into their thinking.
The golden goodbye means Hodgson earned £8.8m in total during his time at the club, which works out at £45,833 for each of the 192 days he was in charge.
He was back in work by Valentine’s Day at West Bromwich Albion — and inflicting more pain on his former club with a 2-1win.
It cost Chelsea £12.6m to jettison Luiz Felipe Scolari and his assistants in 2009 and Mark Hughes is thought to have been paid £3m after his sacking by Manchester City.
But it is not just the biggest clubs who are paying for changing their minds about their appointments. Sam Allardyce, who was paid £3m after he was sacked by Blackburn last December, received the same when he left Newcastle in 2008.
(Mail Online)
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And doesn't that look a great bit of business by Blackburn now.
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That is a great pay out, 45k per day.
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Money will eventually ruin football.
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And doesn't that look a great bit of business by Blackburn now.
Allardyce must be rolling in cash, and look what blackburn have done since he has gone, I don't think they would be where they are if he had stayed.
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Money will eventually ruin football.
Eventually?
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In what other industry could you get £45k per day for 6 months for being a complete and total failure ?
Astonishing
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In what other industry could you get £45k per day for 6 months for being a complete and total failure ?
Astonishing
I would say banking, but that's too puny a sum for them.
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How much do we, as fans, fuel this fire? We all want the top players and call for strength in depth, we all call for managers to be sacked without a thought for the compensation that triggers and want us to poach other clubs managers with the same consequence and we all demand success at almost any cost.*
I'm not saying it is our fault, we don't draw up contracts or sign the cheques but we contribute to encouraging the environment whereby this sort of spending is seen as normal.
* By all I mean as a collective rather than every individual.
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I'm not sure what length contract GH got, but it's probably one of the factors that has meant him staying in his job. We can ill afford a mega pay-off and we're probably holding back some contingency in case MON wins his tribunal which I'm betting he will
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It's not just players and managers who are making big money out of football, Randy took £7.7m in "management fees" and £5.7m in debt interest payments out of the club last year, which was approx. 15% of total revenue. Nice work if you can get it.
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Yes the money is getting beyond belief - I don't think we'll ever again see a 'manager' being given total control of the club. Love him as I do - MON was a disaster at getting value for money. Personally, I think he dreaded rejection, hence the crazy money offered.
If RL has the determination to get the wage bill under control he is going to have to endure the wrath of the 'Meldrew' contingent and their ambition banners. For all the talk about having a strong squad - I'll settle for a strong team - with the academy as back up.
If there is money to spend - spend it on getting eleven outstanding talents - not on assembling a squad of 'solid professionals'.
I think the way that Sky are losing the battle to restrict viewing methods - their payments to the PL will decline. TV is where the bulk of the money comes from - which is sadly a real blow for us - as we can't even fill our now middle sized stadium - and if the TV revenue starts slipping as well...?
Reality check for Villa methinks - but hippy that I am - I quite like Randy's idea of growing your own.
VillaDawg - can you post a link to the source for your figures - would love a look. Ta.