Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: madirishvillain on March 26, 2011, 05:58:34 PM
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the shite/annoying/diving/whinging one that plays for us
and the international class one that plays for England?
that was the Ashley of old out there today, hope he turns up at Everton next week (maybe even bring his England team mate Darren Bent with him as well)
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ARE there, not IS there.
Where is Bad English when you need him?
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Not at all, the one playing today was exactly the same but up against a team who would struggle in the Championship with two awful full backs.
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Big fish in small pond syndrome for me......., today was a relief to not be playing for the Villa....will somebody please come and rescue me from a club with no ambition ...blah blah blah
Stick him on the wing whilst he's in the shop window.
ps what was the second half like....I gave up it was like watching the Villa play...Wales that is
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Think he benefits from having players in midfield who can play penetrating passes. How often do we get behind teams? That's exactly the formation we should be playing with Bent up top and two of MA, AY or SD off him. This would then give us a solid middle three and we might start to get somewhere.
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely well against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
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i watched him today and i was delighted with his performance, no petulance, no diving, no kneeling on the grass with his arms spread out looking at the referee, just got on with it and done what he does best.
i hope Houllier was watching today and has a look at how england played
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
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He was playing in a more forward position for England, his position that he is playing for Villa this season is much deeper
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Its not just because he may be on the move.
Did Ron Saunders play Tony Morley in the middle behind Peter Withe ? NO !
Did Tony Barton play Mark Walters in the middle behind Stainrod/ Rideout/ Thompson ? NO!
Did Big Ron play Tony Daley in the middle behind Deano and Dalian ? NO !
Oi Houllier ! Should you be playing one of the best wingers in the country in the middle ? NO !
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
so Paulie ashley has been amazing for Villa since he signed from Watford right up to now then?
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
Absolutely.
It's like he's already left, so the Milner/Barry-style animosity has started early.
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Nail.on.head
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
Absolutely.
It's like he's already left, so the Milner/Barry-style animosity has started early.
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Well said Paulie.
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There's one that plays off the front, and there's one that plays out wide *winky*.
Seriously, he's a fine player and I think we'll miss him more than Barry or Milner.
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ffs give him a break he's our best player and gives his all and who says he's leaving!!
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Nail.on.head
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
Absolutely.
It's like he's already left, so the Milner/Barry-style animosity has started early.
Ooops. Not sure what happened there.
Nail on head at the bottom of the quote.
The vitriol against Young this year has been quite something to behold. Hands up, one of my favourite players over 40 years of watching. Yes, he has some annoying, deeply annoying habits, but for me he is one of THE most talented players it has been my pleasure to watch.
If he does go, then I hope he goes to a stage befitting his talents and he proves his ability to play on the highest possible stage. Hopefully though, god knows how, he will stay with us
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I think he's been one of our top performers since he joined. Can't see how that can be disputed. I agree, it's the "Oh, he's shit anyway!" attitutde ready for when he leaves. Bit pathetic really.
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
so Paulie ashley has been amazing for Villa since he signed from Watford right up to now then?
Not consistently, no, but who is? Has Wayne Rooney been consistently amazing since he joined Man United?
I said I admit he's not without his faults, but the stick he gets on here is beyond belief, and it is just so small time.
In a terrible season with a squad choca with underperforming players, many of whom clearly do not give a shit, two of the players who get the most stick are Ashley Young - who is capable of "doing things" for us and always at least seems to care - and Stewart Downing, who has been one of our best players all season, but hey, he doesn't crunch into tackles like Gattuso, so he must be shit too.
Baffling.
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Its more of an issue as to why he isnt being played in his most effective position ie up along side Bent with maybe Downing on the other side and then a midfield 3 of Reo, Delph and Makoun
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Paulie
i agree, with that about rooney etc
today was the Ashley Young of old, i thought anyway. when was the last time he played anywhere near that standard for Villa?
i have never got the Stewart Downing critisicm, he has been our best performer without doubt this season. i still think we went to boro and came back with the wrong winger tho
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Ashley has been consistently good since he came here, he's dipped lately, not helped by being played out of position.
Overall, i'll be sorry to see him go.
A midfield without Milner and Young is bereft of real talent.
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ARE there, not IS there.
Where is Bad English when you need him?
Just been changing the flush mechanism upstairs. So, another temperamental pile of shit to deal with.
And I suppose the iPad 2 is going to be blamed for the lack of capital letters too. Tsk!
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ARE there, not IS there.
Where is Bad English when you need him?
Just been changing the flush mechanism upstairs. So, another temperamental pile of shit to deal with.
Better late than never BE, now, attend to him.
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For me, Young's effort has been there this season but his perfomances have not been effective. Completely different player today. No whinging, moaning, etc and almost everything he did was well executed. I couldn't help but think that half of those passes and crosses would have ended up in the crowd if he was wearing claret & blue today.
When he plays like he does today he's very good indeed and we'd miss that Ashley Young a hell of a lot. When he plays like he did against Wolves it's a completely different story.
I really hopes he finds his England form for us in the last 8 games.
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I have "unliked" the ineffective brat's official PFA Pravda page on Facebook. It's the nec plus ultra, I am an online Jarrow Marcher, I am the Greenham Common of Netbook anarchy. Watch it Overpaid Primadonnas™!
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You most certainly are the Online Jarrow Marcher and probably the Offline Jeffrey Archer Darren but did the "flush mechanism" work when you changed it?
I shall use that "flush mechanism" on the plumber next time he says I need a new ball cock. So much less vulgar.
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Imagine you build beautiful high performance Sports cars.
They are well engineered and valuable. Then imagine a man buys one of these cars. He uses it to drive to the shops, take the kids to school despite the car having just two seats and a small boot. The guy grinds the gears and scratches the bodywork. You can blame the car for being ill-suited to his purpose or you can blame the man for using it in that purpose.
This is what we are seeing with Young and to an extent Gabby. Both continue to work hard and both haven't suddenly turned shit overnight. I'm not saying the two of them are not flawed, that they do not frustrate (Young's tumbling and moaning, Gabby's bottling of some one-on-one situations) but unlike many within our squad they are wholehearted lads who always give 100% to the cause. We have to look at the roles they are being used in. Ash worked well for England today as a wide midfielder and Gabby works as a striker. Our manager hasn't used them there.
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would love to see Young on the wing again and big John C on the end of his crosses
At the height of MON's reign they were superb, miss those days
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Well there are two Ashley Youngs, the one that's plays effectively out wide and the one that plays ineffectively out of position down the middle. Guess where he's most effective - hardly rocket science.
Still, I fully expect him to be, once again, playing out of position come Everton. It's like GH wants us to get relegated sometimes.
Hopefully, today makes it embarressingly, blindingly obvious for even the most stubborn to see.
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If he does go, and though it looks inevitable I certainly hope he doesn't, I will consider it far more of a loss than either Barry or Milner. Although Milner was important to the team, he has ability and a fantastic engine, Young has all the quality and technical ability of a top class player, but we haven't always seen it consistantly. Comfortably our best player.
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I said this at the time and I still think it's true: I think Young struck a deal that he would stay another season at Villa on the condition that he could play a more central role.
Admittedly it's just a hunch but I find it kind of wierd that MON was using the system in preseason friendlies and KMac used it in the league.
Houllier arrives and publicly states that Young's best position is on the wing only to change his mind a few days later (after youngs agent no doubt reminded him of the agreement).
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I said this at the time and I still think it's true: I think Young struck a deal that he would stay another season at Villa on the condition that he could play a more central role.
Admittedly it's just a hunch but I find it kind of wierd that MON was using the system in preseason friendlies and KMac used it in the league.
Houllier arrives and publicly states that Young's best position is on the wing only to change his mind a few days later (after youngs agent no doubt reminded him of the agreement).
Then he should be dropped from the side as he's not good enough down the middle. Let's see what he wants to do when being confronted with the remainder of the season in the Stiffs.
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I said this at the time and I still think it's true: I think Young struck a deal that he would stay another season at Villa on the condition that he could play a more central role.
Admittedly it's just a hunch but I find it kind of wierd that MON was using the system in preseason friendlies and KMac used it in the league.
Houllier arrives and publicly states that Young's best position is on the wing only to change his mind a few days later (after youngs agent no doubt reminded him of the agreement).
Then he should be dropped from the side as he's not good enough down the middle. Let's see what he wants to do when being confronted with the remainder of the season in the Stiffs.
Cutting off our collective nose to spite our face. Think he's gone whatever we do, but would rather have him playing anywhere in attack than not playing at all considering our options.
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I said a few days back that against Everton we should go with a solid 3 of Delph, Makoun and Reo Coker with Young right and Downing left of Bent but playing high and quite central with the ball, wide and tracking without. Young would still be getting his central wish but would naturally gravitate wide, and we would be better off for it. Both did well today, Dunne and Collins both got 90 minutes in too. Lets hope the squad is now ready for those last 8 games.
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I said a few days back that against Everton we should go with a solid 3 of Delph, Makoun and Reo Coker with Young right and Downing left
No No No No No.
Albrighton should be on the right in that line-up. Young's been utter shite recently whereas he's been golden. Also, due to the clubs precarious league position and subsequent relegation dogfight, we need players with steel who will work hard, no overpaid overrated divers.
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In a Villa shirt, Young would never have won that pen.
Though ironically, in a Villa shirt, Collins would certainly have conceded it
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I said a few days back that against Everton we should go with a solid 3 of Delph, Makoun and Reo Coker with Young right and Downing left
No No No No No.
Albrighton should be on the right in that line-up. Young's been utter shite recently whereas he's been golden. Also, due to the clubs precarious league position and subsequent relegation dogfight, we need players with steel who will work hard, no overpaid overrated divers.
Don't be daft. Young is our best player, it would be madness to leave him out.
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If we are going to stay up we need Ash to perform, I'm hoping he well.
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Imagine you build beautiful high performance Sports cars.
They are well engineered and valuable. Then imagine a man buys one of these cars. He uses it to drive to the shops, take the kids to school despite the car having just two seats and a small boot.
Have you been drinking?
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I said this at the time and I still think it's true: I think Young struck a deal that he would stay another season at Villa on the condition that he could play a more central role
Prince Phillip murdered Princess Di you know. Also, while you're here I've got these magic beans and they're yours for £50.
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Now now Chris, I said my comment is merely a hunch and obviously I have no way of proving it but I think it's a bit suspect that three able minded managers [cough] have suddenly decided Young's best position is down the middle.
Anyway, how many magic beans have you got left?
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When I suggested a team to play against Everton (or Noowcastle) I suggested Young & Downing on the flanks, with Gabby and Bent up front. We have a shit defence so lets give ourselves a chance of scoring goals. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that Gabby is better up front in the middle and our Ashley is better out wide.
Now where's my job application for the Villa job got to :)?
I hope Ashley does stay, he is a class player.
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Don't take it personally Dante, Chris is just a serial conspiracy denier of all things Villa, AY especially ;)
Perhaps it will all come out in the summer?
It would be a shame if the AY of 2 years ago left, not sure about the current Villa version though.
For all those who bang on about him being committed and our best player...that only highlights how far we have sunk
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AYoung is a right winger, 1st and foremost.He can play on the left, but for me he is more effective on the right.He can't play in the hole.
I would play Young and Downing , with Bent up front against Everton, with 3 man midfield.
Collins and Dunne to be brought back?........Not for me, Clark over Dunne, and Collins looked poor to me yday, off the pace, and poor decision making.Pick Cuellar ahead of for me.
Bents movement off the ball yday was superb, and another example of how Gabby needs to develop if he wants to be any good.
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AYoung is a right winger, 1st and foremost.He can play on the left, but for me he is more effective on the right.He can't play in the hole.
I would play Young and Downing , with Bent up front against Everton, with 3 man midfield.
Collins and Dunne to be brought back?........Not for me, Clark over Dunne, and Collins looked poor to me yday, off the pace, and poor decision making.Pick Cuellar ahead of for me.
Bents movement off the ball yday was superb, and another example of how Gabby needs to develop if he wants to be any good.
I'd agree with all of that. Who to play at left back though? I'd have said Delph, on a temporary basis, but we may need his energy in midfield.
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Kick Warnock up the ass, bring him back. If anything with the likes of Dunne and Warnock, you'd think that they'd want to play well to attract a new club. We need seniors at the back. Dunne for all his faults is a skipper and a leader, which is the only reason I'd have him over Carlos. Clarky plays for me too, cause he's the future and has been less error prone than Dunne and Collins.
As for Young. We've got the shit of the two Ash's! :( Kick him up the ass, put him on the bloody wing!
Job done.
4-3-3, or 4-4-2 with Heskey and Bent up top.
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I would'nt trust Warnock tbh, and i don't think Dunne is a natural captain.I dont see him going around encouraging, motivating.Clark does more than Dunne.
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I just wish we could have AY back on the wing at Villa i thought he played well for England against Wales and Darren Bent played well scoring again well done Villa Boys not forgetting SD aswell.
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a winger playing on the wing had a good game...
not a shock, even if the manager is too fucking stupid to see it..
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I just don't like him.
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Think he benefits from having players in midfield who can play penetrating passes. How often do we get behind teams? That's exactly the formation we should be playing with Bent up top and two of MA, AY or SD off him. This would then give us a solid middle three and we might start to get somewhere.
Spot on.
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Young is a winger through and through, yesterday set the record straight for the whole nation to see
I just hope GH & the assistant were watching
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely well against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
No prejudice at all - from what I've seen as a season ticket holder for every year he's been with the club, the kid has gone from being a fantastic prospect with loads of potential, into an excellent winger with the ability to change a game, then on into a decent player but one which doesn't dictate anything. I put his drop in form over this season specifically as being down to the fact he wants out and is less motivated. It could of course be down to the change in manager or change in playing staff - who knows. But my view is that he can't be arsed.
Couple that with the fact he has a dreadful attitude on the pitch with his whinging and diving and I won't remember him too fondly once he's gone.
As for performances against Bolton and Blackburn - I didn't see the Bolton game but I was there for Blackburn. Yes, he had a decent game but it was against a Blackburn side in freefall who imploded 2nd half. For what it's worth I thought Downing did more to dictate the game against Blackburn.
When was the last time AY did anything game changing against a big club?
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Given the keanness of so many people on here to get rid of one of our best players, we must be absolutely flying of late.
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Given the keanness of so many people on here to get rid of one of our best players, we must be absolutely flying of late.
Call it personal preference Paulie but I would rather have players who actually want to play for the club and understand what it means to pull on the claret and blue jersey than mercenaries who think they're bigger and better than the club itself. This has nothing to do with our current performance or position in the table. Man City is a classic example of a bunch of mercenaries and I wouldn't swap a bottom of the table Villa for them any day of the week.
If he wants to leave because he thinks he's better than us then so be it. I'd rather he went ASAP. There's the knock-on effect of the club falling over itself to keep him (making him captain, giving him penalties, letting him play in a position he's no use in, etc, etc) and how that's affecting the rest of the players. I'd rather we accept he's leaving, stop building the team around him, stick him on the wing for the last few games where he plays best, and make better use of the other players.
And I stand by my view that he has been worse this year than in previous years. You could come up with a dozen suggestions for why that is - my view is that he's lost interest in the Villa.
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Why is it assumed that this "he thinks he's better than the club" line is true, though?
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It's the Vibes he gives off
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It's the Vibes he gives off
So, basically, it's just guesswork?
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You can see now exactly why he refused to sign a contract until the Summer given our current predicament and I don't think any sort of turn around will change his mind, just the same as Milner will have been relieved to have got out when he did.All very,very depressing.Normally I get a real kick out of seeing our players doing well for England but yesterday just made me feel so flat and annoyed at the amount of talent being wasted due to the apalling management.
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Everyone seems pretty convinced he's off, and common sense would suggest there's a good chance of it, but have we heard anything concrete to suggest it? A new manager coming in might make the difference. He did seem pretty settled here pre Houllier.
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I just can't see why he would stay.
He'll have the chance to join Man Utd or Chelsea, play in the Champions League, challenge for the title.
Nearly every player would choose that over what we would be offering next season.
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It's the Vibes he gives off
So, basically, it's just guesswork?
If you call assessing someone's body language, looking at the available facts and forming an assessment of what they're thinking 'guesswork' then yes.
I hope you don't manage people on a daily basis if you consider that sort of thing to constitute guesswork.
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Sad to say it but Alan Shearer aside, players don't seem to turn down the chance to play for ManUre
Will be hard to take but c'est la vie, let's just rinse them for every penny we can
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It's the Vibes he gives off
So, basically, it's just guesswork?
If you call assessing someone's body language, looking at the available facts and forming an assessment of what they're thinking 'guesswork' then yes.
I hope you don't manage people on a daily basis if you consider that sort of thing to constitute guesswork.
Well, I consider watching Ashley Young play - and I've watched him all season - and deducing by the petulance, diving, whingeing and moaning, that he considers himself to be too big for the club to be guesswork, yes.
What else would it be?
And the reason I mentioned the petulance, diving, whingeing and moaning is because he has ALWAYS been like that since he's been with us. The difference now is that people realise he's off, so are building up their "ah well, he was a tosser, we're best rid of him anyway" case in advance.
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It's the Vibes he gives off
So, basically, it's just guesswork?
If you call assessing someone's body language, looking at the available facts and forming an assessment of what they're thinking 'guesswork' then yes.
I hope you don't manage people on a daily basis if you consider that sort of thing to constitute guesswork.
Well, I consider watching Ashley Young play - and I've watched him all season - and deducing by the petulance, diving, whingeing and moaning, that he considers himself to be too big for the club to be guesswork, yes.
What else would it be?
And the reason I mentioned the petulance, diving, whingeing and moaning is because he has ALWAYS been like that since he's been with us. The difference now is that people realise he's off, so are building up their "ah well, he was a tosser, we're best rid of him anyway" case in advance.
I think you're on the right lines there. I think that Young, as the poster boy of 'new Villa' seems to embody the disappointment of this season as much as he personified the fresh, positive vibes about the place a few years back. I must say, I think it's time for him to go for his own sake as much as ours - time for some new heros. I thought I'd be more bothered about him leaving but I'm not - weird.
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As I've always said, and he showed yesterday, he's simply much more effective out wide.
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And I've also said, rather than Young in the hole, I'd have preferred to see Downing there this season. Nearly scored a good goal for England yesterday at the end, all from a central position.
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Will Man U or Chrelsea pay more than the reported 80k a week we will offer?
Of course they can, but will they?
You never know he might think that staying at Villa help his international future, Barry and Milner have gone backwards internationally since leaving Villa.
It is all guess work, but if he signs he could become a Villa legend, be captain and be the main man. If he moves, he is just a squad player, see Milner.
I don't think Ash would be happy being a squad player for around the same money we are offering. Obviously assuming Man City don't join in.
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As someone said earlier, If QPR come up & (Mital & Ecclestone) start throwing the cash around it could get interesting
Haven't Ci£y got to reduce their wage bill in line with UEFA guidelines
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I think Young will end up at Liverpool.
I know people will say they're not in europe but it didn't stop Suarez or Carroll going there. Young will fancy getting the crosses in for those two.
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I hope Young took note of Milner's introduction to the England team on Saturday. 12 months ago it was mainly Millner who was keeping him out of the side/squad. Milner gets his dream move to a bigger club and the roles are now reversed.
Obviously there is more to a footballer's career than international recognition but it should be a factor and Villa are one of -if not the best - placed club to build an international reputation.
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As I've always said, and he showed yesterday, he's simply much more effective out wide.
Agreed, shame GH doesn't agree though
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Young has not been great for over 18 months, watching England it was nice to see that he still does have talent but for what ever reason does not show it for Villa.
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Young has not been great for over 18 months, watching England it was nice to see that he still does have talent but for what ever reason does not show it for Villa.
Just watched yesterday's highlights on youtube, he did look good... I can only hope GH was watching the game too and he changes the formation and shifts young to the wing.
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Get Young back on the right wing, downing on the left and with the squad fit and tactics correct I think we can pick up plenty of points over the last 8 games
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Get Young back on the right wing, downing on the left and with the squad fit and tactics correct I think we can pick up plenty of points over the last 8 games
Agree 100%
However I listened to Talksport this morning and found it quite worrying listening to the Darren bent interview after the game when he said he liked playing in a 4-3-3 because "that's the formation we play at Villa"
Really????
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Get Young back on the right wing, downing on the left and with the squad fit and tactics correct I think we can pick up plenty of points over the last 8 games
Agree 100%
However I listened to Talksport this morning and found it quite worrying listening to the Darren bent interview after the game when he said he liked playing in a 4-3-3 because "that's the formation we play at Villa"
Really????
That just says to me that either Darren Bent is bizarrely clueless foor a footballer about what his own team is doing, or Ash is disobeying tactical orders by constantly running so far up the pitch as to make it look like 4-4-2.
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Get Young back on the right wing, downing on the left and with the squad fit and tactics correct I think we can pick up plenty of points over the last 8 games
Agree 100%
However I listened to Talksport this morning and found it quite worrying listening to the Darren bent interview after the game when he said he liked playing in a 4-3-3 because "that's the formation we play at Villa"
Really????
That just says to me that either Darren Bent is bizarrely clueless foor a footballer about what his own team is doing, or Ash is disobeying tactical orders by constantly running so far up the pitch as to make it look like 4-4-2.
I think its a bit of both!
like Downing thinking we played well against Wolves and we weren't in relegation trouble
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Get Young back on the right wing, downing on the left and with the squad fit and tactics correct I think we can pick up plenty of points over the last 8 games
Agree 100%
However I listened to Talksport this morning and found it quite worrying listening to the Darren bent interview after the game when he said he liked playing in a 4-3-3 because "that's the formation we play at Villa"
Really????
Well yes it is. The problem being for England Ash is one of the wide men in the three. for Villa he plays as the attacking midfielder option in the hole. making us lose our shape as that job should have been Stephen ireland's. If Ash was on one wing - as we'd all prefer, and Downing or Albrighton on the other side who would be our midfield 3? one or two to hold, and one to be the playmaker. Who have we currently got good enough? Bannan is a season or two away from being that person and all we've got left is makoun, NRC and Petrov. Delph maybe that player but again he's not there yet. That's why we look so disjointed at times. When it comes off (Blackburn) its brilliant in its destructiveness. But we don't see it often enough because the forwards have to do it for 90 mins as they know we're always one calamity away from conceding at the other end. As we do in nearly every game.
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we play
Downing NRC Makoun Albrighton
Young
Bent
We should play
NRC Petrov Makoun
Downing Bent Young
you swap the personel but we do not play the formation that england have played
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Makoun NRC Delph
Ash Bent Downing
Quite simple.
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Same for me Shrek. Bring on Albrighton and Gabby as options.
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we play
Downing NRC Makoun Albrighton
Young
Bent
We should play
NRC Petrov Makoun
Downing Bent Young
you swap the personel but we do not play the formation that england have played
And you think Petrov is good enough to be our playmaker? never in a month of Sundays.
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Ash created a goal from CM tonite
Oh shit !
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we play
Downing NRC Makoun Albrighton
Young
Bent
We should play
NRC Petrov Makoun
Downing Bent Young
you swap the personel but we do not play the formation that england have played
And you think Petrov is good enough to be our playmaker? never in a month of Sundays.
No.
Swop Petrov for Delph and I would agree with the formation.
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we need Petrov's experience and gui;e over the next 8 games IMO
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we play
Downing NRC Makoun Albrighton
Young
Bent
We should play
NRC Petrov Makoun
Downing Bent Young
you swap the personel but we do not play the formation that england have played
And you think Petrov is good enough to be our playmaker? never in a month of Sundays.
I wasnt advocating Petrov in particular, and I dont the central midfield player in a 3 is not necessarily a playmaker, we are trying to use Young as a playmaker behind Bent, it aint working.
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Yes there are, if you believe the papers.
There's the one who is currently employed by Villa and there is apparantly another one who has joined man utd, but won't be playing until next season
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It worked reasonably well when Milner was playing as our withdrawn playmaker and we had Young and Downing keeping the width. The challenge is not identifying the players / gameplay; it's Hou's view of things, whihc is the only one that counts at the moment.
FWIW, I'd be playing a narrow 3 in midfield with Bent plus two of the three available wingers. The narrow 3 would be Petrov, Makoun and Delph, with NRC to come on after 60 for Petrov. If we needed extra creativity during the game I'd bring off Petrov, move Downing inside and put Albrighton out wide.
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There may be some who are getting their psyche's adjusted early for Ash's no doubt iminent departure in the Summer, but anyone with half a brain can see there were two big differences with Ash in the England game.
First he didn't dive whinge and moan non-stop. Second he didn't take (and waste) all the free kicks. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds both of these traits massively annoying when he plays for us.
I don't think you can question his willingness to put the effort in, or that he makes things happen for us and we undoubtedly miss him when he's out. Anyone who saw our feeble attempts at attacking at Anfield without him can vouch for that.
If he could be for us like he is with England, just get on with the job, I'd be his biggest fan. As it is, his considerable downside makes me somewhat indifferent to him going as long as we can trouser a decent amount for him and sign a decent winger or "in the hole" type playmaker in his place. The next Van Der Vaart would do nicely.
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I'd go
Albrighton Makoun Delph Young
Agbonlahor Bent
With Downing, Petrov, Reo Coker and Heskey able deputies to keep everyone fresh.
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http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/03/30/aston-villa-ex-villa-striker-insists-club-will-only-get-the-most-of-ashley-young-on-the-wing-97319-28426466/
A Villa legend who knows a thing or two says Ash must play on the wing.
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Or he just can't be arsed to play for the Villa now he's decided he wants to leave...
Bollocks, do you go to any games? He played extremely week against Bolton and Blackburn but why let the facts get in the way of blind prejudice?
This seemingly endless campaign against Young by a lot of people on here is bizarre.
"He thinks he's too big for us", "there's two of them, the one that plays for England and the one that we see every week", "boo hoo, he's such a whinger"
He is not without his faults, but it is all so unbelievably small time, it makes us sound like Albion fans.
I suspect it is because he's almost certainly off in the summer, and said posters are preparing the ground to say "good riddance" and act like he was always shit anyway.
That's pretty much it. Frustrating but hell of a good player and would be gutted if he goes. We'll miss him.
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One thing which is being forgotten in this debate is that Premiership teams found a way of reducing his effectiveness on the wing by playing a "proper" full back who would force him wide and stop him cutting in, or simply putting 2 players on him.
The Welsh team, as co-commentator Coleman was at pains to point out, were remiss to the the point of incompetence in this task.
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One thing which is being forgotten in this debate is that Premiership teams found a way of reducing his effectiveness on the wing by playing a "proper" full back who would force him wide and stop him cutting in, or simply putting 2 players on him.
The Welsh team, as co-commentator Coleman was at pains to point out, were remiss to the the point of incompetence in this task.
Yes they did and there was a lot of call on this site for him to be moved into the middle.
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While we continue to use Young in the middle, we're not getting the best out of Bent.
He needs a partner with him, prior to his suspension Heskey was playing out of his skin, i'd like to see him create some room and opportunities as a front 2 with Bent.
This Young through the middle caper means we don't get the best out of Gabby either, he's about as much a winger as Richard Dunne is.
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One thing which is being forgotten in this debate is that Premiership teams found a way of reducing his effectiveness on the wing by playing a "proper" full back who would force him wide and stop him cutting in, or simply putting 2 players on him.
The Welsh team, as co-commentator Coleman was at pains to point out, were remiss to the the point of incompetence in this task.
Yes they did and there was a lot of call on this site for him to be moved into the middle.
It worked to certain a extent under O'Neill towards the end of 2007 (I think). It cetaibly hasn't worked under Houllier.
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MON started playing Ash in the hole not Le Gaffuer, but it's plain for all to see that he's a winger.
Always has been, always will be.
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While we continue to use Young in the middle, we're not getting the best out of Bent.
Absolutley. Not only that, we need someone else up there to give the opposition centre halves something else to worry about.
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While we continue to use Young in the middle, we're not getting the best out of Bent.
Absolutley. Not only that, we need someone else up there to give the opposition centre halves something else to worry about.
Spot on.
I never thought i'd want Heskey in the side, but he was really playing well prior to the Sunderland debacle.
Holding up the ball brilliantly and making accurate passes.
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He, apart from the shocking misses, was our best player before getting wound up and sent in that game too Fletch. At home he has to play for me. Away I think we need to go 3 genuine centre mids, with Young and Downing playing where they did for England with Bent up top.
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While we continue to use Young in the middle, we're not getting the best out of Bent.
Absolutley. Not only that, we need someone else up there to give the opposition centre halves something else to worry about.
Spot on.
I never thought i'd want Heskey in the side, but he was really playing well prior to the Sunderland debacle.
Holding up the ball brilliantly and making accurate passes.
We do not have the players for 4-4-2. It worked OK for us over the last two seasons because we had high class central midfield players in Barry and then Milner. We don't have that now and we'd get battered if we tried it.
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I'm convinced Ashley Young will not be a Villa player next season.
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While we continue to use Young in the middle, we're not getting the best out of Bent.
Absolutley. Not only that, we need someone else up there to give the opposition centre halves something else to worry about.
Spot on.
I never thought i'd want Heskey in the side, but he was really playing well prior to the Sunderland debacle.
Holding up the ball brilliantly and making accurate passes.
We do not have the players for 4-4-2. It worked OK for us over the last two seasons because we had high class central midfield players in Barry and then Milner. We don't have that now and we'd get battered if we tried it.
What's wrong with a central midfield of Makoun and NRC/Petrov?
It's not that bad, as long as they stick to the donkey work and leave the creativity to the wings.
Alternatively, DON'T play with 2 wingers, we don't have to.
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I'm convinced Ashley Young will not be a Villa player next season.
He won't be.
As i've said before 'I don't want to talk about new contracts till the end of the season'
Is player speak for
'I'm pissing off, but I don't want to piss off the supporters by admitting it, I'll act all enigmatic till the Summer and fuck off then.'
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I'm convinced Ashley Young will not be a Villa player next season.
He won't be.
As i've said before 'I don't want to talk about new contracts till the end of the season'
Is player speak for
'I'm pissing off, but I don't want to piss off the supporters by admitting it, I'll act all enigmatic till the Summer and fuck off then.'
Man City.
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He's top dog at Villa (or so he likes to think so (thought he's probably right)), whereas at England, and the club he'll be at next season, he won't be, which will benefit him greatly. He won't feel the need to try and do everything.
Having said that, I think he tries to do 'everything' at Villa with the best intentions. I don't think he does it to piss people off, that's just the way he thinks he can help the team. GH should be telling him he doesn't need to do everything and play like he does for England and when he first joined us up until sometime last season, but even more so in this season.
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I reckon Liverpool.
Daglish will want him on the wing to provide bullets for that Cajun, log cabin, you sure have a pretty mouth, bloke they signed.
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Liverpool with an outside chance of Man Utd.
Can't see him anywhere else.
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What's wrong with a central midfield of Makoun and NRC/Petrov?
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ZERO creativity
Petrov should never start a game for us again to to his appalling fitness levels
Makoun NRC Delph/Bannan
I think as far as AY goes it could be Liverpool
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My money is on Young going to Man Utd with an outside chance of spuds however spuds have a tight wage structure so that may be the stumbling block. If Liverpool want him then it's £25 million or bog off.
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I still can't help thinking of Brian Little whenever Ash is mentioned. It is funny how memories change but I used to believe at least half of Villa park wanted our best player gone then and do now.
For those that remember, Brian seemed to infuriate some just for the way he looked no matter how he played.
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Gary Shaw as well
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We may as well just give up if he signs for Liverpool. We should be on at least a par with them.
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I still can't help thinking of Brian Little whenever Ash is mentioned. It is funny how memories change but I used to believe at least half of Villa park wanted our best player gone then and do now.
For those that remember, Brian seemed to infuriate some just for the way he looked no matter how he played.
Gary Shaw as well
I have been saying this for ages as well. I was into my teens when Brian was waltzing around Villa Park and amazed me with his level of skill and ability. However as mentioned, there were a significant number in the crowd who didn't think he worked hard enough and was lazy. Exactly the same occured with Shaw, Walters, Morley etc etc. It seems a trait of Villa fans that we prefer "hard workers, cover every blade of grass" type players rather than those who are, shall we say enigmatic?.
The truth for me is that you need both types of players to make a successful side. The 1980-81 team being the perfect example. Des Bremner ran for Scotland that season and "covered every blade of grass" but he was a limited ball player. Because he was seen to be working hard he didn't receive that much stick, as far as I can remember, he was cut a little slack. I would wager though that he had as many poor games as Shaw that year, but his workrate covered them up. The same applied four seasons earlier if you compared Little with say Frank Carrodus?. Actually, scrub that, Carrodus did receive a lot of stick :-). But, we did miss him when he wasn't there.
In my humble opinion, Ashley Young is the best all round winger I have seen play for Villa in all my years of watching. Others have had more speed, others have been more skilful, others may have crossed a better ball and some others may have scored more goals. However, I genuinely don't believe anyone else has had the all round ability of Young. He is a player, like a few others, that will only be appreciated fully by the fans when he is plying his trade elsewhere.
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funny i dont remember Shaw or Little being slagged off, except Little would never acknowledge the fans singing walks on water, i remember groans when Bremners name was announced though. Young is not as good as Brian Little or Morley for 2 seasons or Daley or Walters. The big difference is that Morley, Shaw and Little played a big part in us winning things. Young has not achieved that.
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funny i dont remember Shaw or Little being slagged off, except Little would never acknowledge the fans singing walks on water, i remember groans when Bremners name was announced though. Young is not as good as Brian Little or Morley for 2 seasons or Daley or Walters. The big difference is that Morley, Shaw and Little played a big part in us winning things. Young has not achieved that.
You're right, that's entirely his fault. Christ, that's like saying George Best not winning a World Cup with NI makes him worse than Stephane Guivarc'h.
PS: not that I do think Young is better than Morely, but not based on medals. Teams win medals.
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Another problem with playing Young in 'the hole' is that you then don't have anyone who's capable of holding the ball up up front, thus taking pressure off the midfield and defence. Who knows, maybe putting on Heskey when we were 2-1 up at Bolton might have made a difference.
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For a couple of seasons Morley was a brilliant all round player, pace, crossing, beating men and scoring some spectacular goals along the way. He still had some crap games though. There were times when Little just looked totally disinterested, and Shaw got a lot of stick around where I stood for bottling out of challenges. Undoubtely very good players but people want it all, all of the time it seems.
I honestly don't think Young is that good at getting past his man, either by pace or trickery - he invariably either cuts inside and crosses rather than goes past the man, or tries to go past but his intent more often than not seems to be on drawing contact/the foul rather than a genuine attempt to beat his man. Albrighton seems to have the knack of getting past his man and finding space far more than Ash does - such as when he nutmegged Evra.
Ash is perhaps trying too hard and needs the manager to relieve him of free kick duties for his own and the team's good.
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ROLL UP - ROLL UP - READ ALL ABOUT IT - ASHLEY GOES ALL CASHLEY - WILL THE BOO BOYS CHORUS REFORM?
The first bidder has laid down a marker, according to that august and reliable organ http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3503082/Manchester-United-close-on-Aston-Villas-25m-Ashley-Young.html (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3503082/Manchester-United-close-on-Aston-Villas-25m-Ashley-Young.html)
Manchester United want to pay £25million for the boy - as they see him as 'the new Ryan Giggs'. Clearly someone has found the key to Fergie's drinks globe. With Citeh and Chelski sniffing around too this - IMHO - can only be good business for the Villa. If young Mr Albrighton can sharpen up his sprinting power and strength - I'll take him on the wing anyday.
Hurrah!
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Ash is perhaps trying too hard and needs the manager to relieve him of free kick duties for his own and the team's good.
Or perhaps he needs to relieve himself (AY that is)
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Lerner drive to keep Ashley
ASTON VILLA owner Randy Lerner has held personal talks with Ashley Young to try and convince the winger to stay at the club.
England star Young is a target for Manchester United in the summer — as SunSport revealed on Friday.
But Villa are desperate to hang on to their star man, who will have only one year left on his contract when the season ends.
Young, 26, has put off talks over a new deal at Villa Park until the summer, despite the club offering him a £500,000-a-year pay rise before Christmas.
American-based Lerner leaves the day-to-day running of the club to chief executive Paul Faulkner.
But he responded to desperate calls from fans to move to keep Young.
In the unusual but admirable step, the chairman stepped in to tell Young he and the club still mean business.
Young wants Champions League football and the chance to challenge for trophies but it is understood Lerner attempted to persuade the player that Villa want to match his ambitions.
His performances under boss Gerard Houllier, despite the club's precarious league position, have seen Young become a key member of the England squad.
The club are still fully behind Houllier and believe he can move the club back in the right direction beyond the summer - as long as relegation is avoided.
Houllier thinks his £24million January signing Darren Bent is vital to beating the drop after two more goals in the draw at Everton.
He said: "He will score goals for us - we know that. Sometimes he looks quiet but he is like a fox in the box.
"Darren is full of composure. Sometimes he misses - in Bolton he missed easy goals but against Everton he was fantastic.
"You've got to accept that with strikers."
Keeping their star men is vital to success next term, despite the club being keen to trim the wage bill.
Big earners Stephen Warnock, Stephen Ireland, John Carew, Luke Young and Habib Beye are likely to be moved on in the summer.
Villa have also opened contract talks with veteran goalkeeper Brad Friedel.
The American, 40 in May, is out of contract in the summer but Houllier is ready to give him another year after some more consistent displays.
Houllier said in January he had spoken to Friedel about his future and they would decide later in the season the best way forward for all parties.
Another out of contract in the summer is midfielder Nigel Reo-Coker.
He has been central to Houllier's plans since the Frenchman took over but it is understood the player wants to look at all of his options at the end of the season.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3509292/Randy-Lerner-holds-personal-talks-with-Ashley-Young-over-new-contract.html
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Well done to Randy for trying but I think his mind is made up!
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he has been one of our mopst consistent exciting players for the past 10-20 years
stop your whingeing and get behind him
if he goes in the summer then thanks and good luck
BUT whilst he is wearing Claret and Blue, give the guy nothing but support
UTV
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Do not believe Lerner has spoke to Ash. Would like to keep him but if he wants to go its all about how much we can get for him. Albrighton is a ready winger replacement. With the money available to buy two quality players.....