Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Greg N'Ash on January 19, 2011, 01:17:52 AM
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Haven't seen this mentioned yet but this is bit more than tinkering in a January transfer window from a new manager. Most people expected new faces but he's not just fiddling with the team and replacing the parts, but seems to be stripping it down to the chassis (though some would say the motor was sold last summer). okay most sane villa fans wanted to see the back of MON's hateful hoofball team as long as results imporved long term but still he's changing things at an incredible rate.
To my mind he's decided that not only is he not happy with all the players, but he doesn't even trust some of them to fill in temporary.
Bent, Makoun, central defender? - looks like a spine of a team to me. Walker, a few more maybe and i reckon we'll lose at least one unexpected name as well as hopefully a few more duds
Fairplay to Randy for financing it but i can't ever remember this sort of reconstruction in such a short time period
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I think we became used to not a lot changing under O'Neill- and to be fair, that lack of change seemed to work- in terms of results, if not in beauty of football. But it is strange - exciting, I would say- to feel that Houllier isn't just here to sit around, but is actually trying to build his idea of a team. Although, when it comes down to it, that's exactly what he should be doing!
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Have to agree. i'm a bit nervous about how it will turn out but its certainly.... different
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I'll feel better when he unloads Ireland (WTF is his problem anyways?) and Carew. Petrov needs to be replaced as captain.
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its like the night of the long knives, except over a....er month. I reckon they've found a buyer and ireland is off
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
Kiss of death.....
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
Kiss of death.....
ha ha, anyone remember David Geddis ?
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With all the stick that Houllier has had recently, I will be even more delighted if he finds great success at Villa. I have never previously witnessed such a vicious turn against a manager and have found the whole thing distinctly unpleasant. I am not against those with valid opinions but a lot of the vitriol that has been said and published (the Villa Facebook page is a particular example) has been by moronic individuals that simply follow like sheep. The same people are always to be found singing the praises of any potential player whose name appears in the press without ever having heard of the player before. As I said, there are plenty with valid reasons, which I respect, but there are also many jumping on this bandwagon who have no brain at all.
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£24 million quid for Bent? At that rate I'm worth a cool 12 million on condition I only play for 5 minutes and kick with my right foot, because with my left foot direction is a problem. He might be useful, because Lord knows the Villa's needs are desperate. However, it looks as if someone was very desperate indeed.
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
Kiss of death.....
ha ha, anyone remember David Geddis ?
So you're comparing Geddis' 44 league appearances and 5 goals prior to joing us with Bent's better than 2 in 1 goal ratio over a five year period? Why not compare Bent with John Woodward while you're at it :-)
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think there are three groups really. those that want to give him a try, those who are not happy with him because of results and who have a valid point, and those that want him out because he's not MON with most of the vitriol from the latter
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think there are three groups really. those that want to give him a try, those who are not happy with him because of results and who have a valid point, and those that want him out because he's not MON with most of the vitriol from the latter
In a nutshell!
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
Kiss of death.....
ha ha, anyone remember David Geddis ?
So you're comparing Geddis' 44 league appearances and 5 goals prior to joing us with Bent's better than 2 in 1 goal ratio over a five year period? Why not compare Bent with John Woodward while you're at it :-)
not really mate,. it was just a throw away coment/joke,
hence the ha ha at the start
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More great signings like Walker, Bent and Makoun and he will indeed have rebulit the team in double quick time. I hope we keep all our young homegrown players and Gabby is still a regular. Just needs to get sell on about 6 players and the revolution will be complete. Oh and start winning games:)
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With all the stick that Houllier has had recently, I will be even more delighted if he finds great success at Villa. I have never previously witnessed such a vicious turn against a manager and have found the whole thing distinctly unpleasant. I am not against those with valid opinions but a lot of the vitriol that has been said and published (the Villa Facebook page is a particular example) has been by moronic individuals that simply follow like sheep. The same people are always to be found singing the praises of any potential player whose name appears in the press without ever having heard of the player before. As I said, there are plenty with valid reasons, which I respect, but there are also many jumping on this bandwagon who have no brain at all.
I wonder who you could be thinking of! And I agree entirely. There's one thing thinking he isn't the right man for the job, quite another hurling abuse at the "froggy twat". I would certainly hope that as a result of the last couple of weeks' work in the transfer market, he would be cut some slack for a while. We will see.
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The same people are always to be found singing the praises of any potential player whose name appears in the press without ever having heard of the player before.
Are you referring to young Farcellini, the Italian holding midfielder by any chance? At 13.2 million pounds he's a snip.
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It will be a revolution if GH can motivate some desire in the senior players and can get it right tactically.
So far he has done neither. However, he has my support now that Randy has trusted him. I hope he was right to do so - like all of us.
Gonna be an interesting run in.
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I think he needed to make major moves in this window as the players he inherited have clearly not been responding to him. By briniging in a few of his own he changes to whole ethos/atmosphere around at training and in the dressing room, which will hopefully motivate the existing players also.
Sunderland at home aside, I think we've seen an slight upturn in form of late (Chelsea away and the battling performance when 1 nil down at the sty) so hopefully the signings will instill a feel good factor around amongst fans and players alike and we'll start winning games!
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think there are three groups really. those that want to give him a try, those who are not happy with him because of results and who have a valid point, and those that want him out because he's not MON with most of the vitriol from the latter
Stick me in the middle group.
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I'm really excited, Bent is nailed on to start banging them in for Villa!
Kiss of death.....
ha ha, anyone remember David Geddis ?
So you're comparing Geddis' 44 league appearances and 5 goals prior to joing us with Bent's better than 2 in 1 goal ratio over a five year period? Why not compare Bent with John Woodward while you're at it :-)
Bent's scoring record is superb but wouldn't it just be very "Villa" for him to go on a long barren spell now?
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Isn't it nice for us to publicly unsettle some players for once, by leaking out comments and the like.
Superb breathe of fresh air.
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GH is getting the right type of players in and getting rid of the deadwood so he is starting to put is own mark on the team let's just hope it turns around on the pitch which i think it will.
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I dont think it is as much a revolutionas you are making out. He has been here since September (?) and the performance against the Blues was mixed (I think would be the universal opinion?).
The positives of the performance were that we were solid defensively, however, we didnt offer much creativity. Very similar to last season, no?
Now granted, GH has had to work with the squad that he has been left with, but I think the signings he has made are ones that we all wanted to supplement MON's squad (quality striker, genuine box to box midfielder to replace Milner, attacking full back).
What I mean is, and I hope is, that GH is recognising the strengths of the squad and instead of dismantling it completely he is improving (massively) on the areas we are lacking. I think the fact he has gone back to Dunne and Collins at CB shows this. MON's squad last year was far from pefect but it did get us might close to CL football and a 2 trophies and I think GH is starting to recognise that there is no point completely starting from scratch.
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think there are three groups really. those that want to give him a try, those who are not happy with him because of results and who have a valid point, and those that want him out because he's not MON with most of the vitriol from the latter
And there are those who didn't want him for many other reasons that you haven't mentioned.
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I think Gary McAllister has said something about the team/ squad being largely OK but needing some fine-tuning - this would suggest that the management team don't necessarily see it as revolution. Possibly more revolutionary (in chaotic Mao Tse-tung style) has been MON's strategy of buying a whole new defence every close season. What pleases me is that Houllier has recognised what the team needs and has gone out to solve the problem.
Anyone who watches Villa will have been aware that we have needed a reliable goalscorer since before MON's tenure. Unfortunately over the last few years MON has tended to pussy-foot around the problems whilst bulking out the squad. MON signed Carew in a swap, Harewood, and Heskey - it is as though he couldn't bring himself to pay the money that a proven premier league goalscorer in their prime would cost. Added to this he didn't have the scouting networks to source a young striker who might one day become the next reliable goalscorer. Instead he arguably wasted money on people like Harewood who he ultimately didn't trust, or brought in people like Heskey who are tried and tested but patently don't fit the job description. We should have been in the market for Bent when he was available from Spurs - whether they would have sold him to us or not we can't know, but £10M spent at that point would have been no more of a gamble than £18M is now. The fact that we patently need a reliable goalscorer now, and haven't got one, and haven't been bringing one through, means that Houllier has had to go out and buy one. Next time we will hopefully have more options within the squad and won't have to go out and spend this kind of money (or will be able to negotiate a better deal).
In previous seasons there has been the whole full back issue. Rather than go out to get the player that we need from a list of possible candidates, MON has waited a whole season for someone in particular to become available, and then found them unavailable. At this point he signed Young (for twice what he was available for the previous summer), and Shorey... then utlimately lost faith in both of them and bought Warnock and Beye.
I recall MON regularly saying early in his tenure that we would only sign players who were an improvement on what he currently had. After a certain point this was very obviously not followed faithfully (or if not faithfully, then competently). By biting the bullet and buying the players that we desperately need, Houllier at this stage is improving the team without bulking out the squad.
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I dont think it is as much a revolutionas you are making out. He has been here since September (?) and the performance against the Blues was mixed (I think would be the universal opinion?).
The positives of the performance were that we were solid defensively, however, we didnt offer much creativity. Very similar to last season, no?
Now granted, GH has had to work with the squad that he has been left with, but I think the signings he has made are ones that we all wanted to supplement MON's squad (quality striker, genuine box to box midfielder to replace Milner, attacking full back).
What I mean is, and I hope is, that GH is recognising the strengths of the squad and instead of dismantling it completely he is improving (massively) on the areas we are lacking. I think the fact he has gone back to Dunne and Collins at CB shows this. MON's squad last year was far from pefect but it did get us might close to CL football and a 2 trophies and I think GH is starting to recognise that there is no point completely starting from scratch.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, certainly against Blues I saw a lot more long balls from the back then I ever did in previous seasons.
We've been crying out for a goal poacher for years and a midfielder with energy to replace Milner, we've got those now.
Randy has shown enormous faith with Gerard, it's now time for Gerard to repay that faith by getting us out of this mess.
This signing has lifted the massive cloud that's been over the club since the Autumn, personally I miss Milner a lot more than I miss MON, I hope saturday we can fill the stadium to reward the investment Randy has made.
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The positives of the performance were that we were solid defensively, however, we didnt offer much creativity. Very similar to last season, no?
No. We keep creating chances we just haven't scored. At the moment we top the hit the woodwork table which indicates how close we have been to scoring.
Now granted, GH has had to work with the squad that he has been left with, but I think the signings he has made are ones that we all wanted to supplement MON's squad (quality striker, genuine box to box midfielder to replace Milner, attacking full back).
Which is a good thing. He's also repeatedly stated that we have a good squad that finished 6th and we just need to get it back winning games. The new additions can only help as selling off some no use high earners will only help the wage bill and ensure he complies with Randy's remit, something his predecessor found impossible to do, it seems.
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It he combines the talent we have in youth in Albrighton, Clark, Bannan with his calibre of signing like Bent, Walker and hopefully Adam with likes of Young , Dunne and Downing we should do well .
Minimum second half performance after spending probably 40m is 8th meaning we should finish half way.
Anything below that he has failed, if we struggle second half he aint the man.
The jury still out with me
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think there are three groups really. those that want to give him a try, those who are not happy with him because of results and who have a valid point, and those that want him out because he's not MON with most of the vitriol from the latter
I am in the group that wanted him out but wants him to be our most sucessful manager ever...
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It he combines the talent we have in youth in Albrighton, Clark, Bannan with his calibre of signing like Bent, Walker and hopefully Adam with likes of Young , Dunne and Downing we should do well .
Minimum second half performance after spending probably 40m is 8th meaning we should finish half way.
Anything below that he has failed, if we struggle second half he aint the man.
The jury still out with me
8th you are generous, a real knocker would want European qualification surely.
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It he combines the talent we have in youth in Albrighton, Clark, Bannan with his calibre of signing like Bent, Walker and hopefully Adam with likes of Young , Dunne and Downing we should do well .
Minimum second half performance after spending probably 40m is 8th meaning we should finish half way.
Anything below that he has failed, if we struggle second half he aint the man.
The jury still out with me
I agree.
The injuries have all cleared up and he's been heavily backed by the chairman, so no longer working exclusively with the previous manager's players.
The reasons people were giving for patience are being taken away one by one, so now he really does need to deliver in terms of results. As it goes I think 8th might be a stretch, but I think top half should be the target.
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As it goes I think 8th might be a stretch, but I think top half should be the target.
I agree with that.
New players and the injury nightmare is over, 10th or above should be acceptable.
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8th? I'd take top half. I'd take 10th, 11th - then kick on for next season.
What I like so far about GH's three signings (I'm not including Pires here) is that he's addressing areas of the team that need improving. How long has right back been an issue? Remember MON selling all of ours and then shoe-horning Mellberg in there? Even after he signed Young he then changed his mind a year later, used Cuellar there. We've needed a goalscorer in the Bent mould since he took over. We never properly replaced Barry in CM; just moved Milner across (admittedly it worked very well) but then of course we lost him - and looked like we'd lose him as early as May.
I felt we were in the 'needs fine-tuning' stage in the summer of 2009; strong midfielder to replace Barry, quality striker (who could have Bent, available at Spurs). Then MON went out and bought an entire new back four (Beye-Dunne-Collins-Warnock) to replace the entire back four he'd bought a year or so before (Young-Cuellar-Davies-Shorey) and that was pretty much that. You can understand the board and owners tearing their hair out with his transfer policy.
Immediate attention now on the LB situation, for me. A second midfielder now would be great but I think with Makoun in, we have Petrov, NRC, Delph as options alongside him - Bannan, Hogg also in support.
In the summer, it's then a midfielder if no-one comes in this month, a new No.1 GK, signing up Walker permanently or pursuing another RB if that's not possible/he's not deemed suitable. I'd also like to see a RM - not so much a winger - but someone as an option/backup to Albrighton.
So, four signings in the summer, one of them perhaps just converting from loan to permanent. Do-able. By the end of June, please Ged!
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The team is taking shape, I said it on Sunday before we knew of Bent.
In Albrighton, Ashley and Downing he has three players suited to his system. A forward, a holding midfielder and two fullbacks were needed. We've three of those 4 already. A left back and another midfielder and I'd be over the moon this window.
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Ok, so where are we then in terms of knowing his first team? Based on the 4-2-3-1 I'd say:-
GK - open, but likely new signing in the summer
RB - Walker (or new signing)
CB - Collins seems first choice
CB - open, so maybe a newbie if Dunne goes.but I'd like to see Clark get a run there
LB - open
DCM - Makoun
DCM - open - Adam seems favourite, but I'd like Delph there
AM - Albrighton
AM - Young (new signing if he goes in the summer)
AM - Downing
STR - Bent!!!
I make it a new GK and a LB only to us having a pretty useful and balanced looking side, although I do think there will be more than that coming in!
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CBs is a tough call. He picked Cuellar and Dunne there the other day. Though I suppose, on balance, Cuellar has tended to be left out in the main and I'd agree - I think he rates Collins best of the three. I think he'll go with Clark there next season - he likes him and seems to find a place for him in the side, be it in CM, or at LB. I can see us signing a new CB in the summer, and ditching Dunne or Cuellar.
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I think LB and CM will be in this January. With a bit more tweaking in the summer.
A new #1 goalkeeper, a ball playing centre half (with a centre half moving on) and perhaps one more striker next summer depending on whats happening with Heskey by then.
Then we'll be in pretty good shape.
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Houllier doesn't really have any excuses any more. The injury situation has cleared up, and he's got three new players already to add to the quality already in the squad. Time to start delivering Gerard.
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The new players will be settled in for pre season next year as well so we will be up and running from the start- maybe houllier is doing the bulk of his business now rather than wait till summer as the position we are dictates, I was Reading at Liverpool he apparently did almost all his transfer business before the end of June -seems he targets his men and goes out to try and get them- no dithering around.
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I don't see it as any sort of revolution. As ever a new manager coming into a club wants his own players, the only surprise so far has been the size of the fee for a striker but that's down to Randy.
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It is going to take time to change things, to get the squad he wants.
Let's not forget, though, amidst the euphoria of signing Bent, our performances recently have been frequently woeful, and that absolutely must change, and fast.
Signing Bent and Makoun are the first steps. He now has to get them performing very quickly indeed.
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I dont think Houllier will be considering excuses, just how best to get some wins on the board. If he doesnt relatively soon, there is nobody else to blame.
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This is "Houllier time". He has got more or less what he wants with a striker, holding mid and right back. Needs a left back with pace. Cannot see where Gabby is going to play ??? I have faith in him .....
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If we score in the first ten minutes against City everything will be forgotten, the players will be up as will the fans.
It's a big game for Gezza.
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Gabby will play up front. Dont write him off.
In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if he scores on Saturday. In fact, I'm going put money on it.
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Gabby will play up front. Dont write him off.
In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if he scores on Saturday. In fact, I'm going put money on it.
You do that, i'm having Ashley on his return.
You heard it here first.
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£24 million quid for Bent? At that rate I'm worth a cool 12 million on condition I only play for 5 minutes and kick with my right foot, because with my left foot direction is a problem. He might be useful, because Lord knows the Villa's needs are desperate. However, it looks as if someone was very desperate indeed.
Hi Martin.
While you're here can you tell us why you turned down the West Ham job?
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Gabby as a wide forward, I still think it's the way for him, like Anelka at Chelsea. He's not clinical enough to play through the middle, but his delivery is fantastic as is his work rate.
Think that's why Ged wants him to slim down a bit.
Exploiting the gaps between the centre back and fullback to allow space for Bent and Ash drifting in from the left.
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It he combines the talent we have in youth in Albrighton, Clark, Bannan with his calibre of signing like Bent, Walker and hopefully Adam with likes of Young , Dunne and Downing we should do well .
Minimum second half performance after spending probably 40m is 8th meaning we should finish half way.
Anything below that he has failed, if we struggle second half he aint the man.
The jury still out with me
8th you are generous, a real knocker would want European qualification surely.
we will get europe when we win the FA cup
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£24 million quid for Bent? At that rate I'm worth a cool 12 million on condition I only play for 5 minutes and kick with my right foot, because with my left foot direction is a problem. He might be useful, because Lord knows the Villa's needs are desperate. However, it looks as if someone was very desperate indeed.
Hi Martin.
While you're here can you tell us why you turned down the West Ham job?
In fact, just piss off.
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£24 million quid for Bent? At that rate I'm worth a cool 12 million on condition I only play for 5 minutes and kick with my right foot, because with my left foot direction is a problem. He might be useful, because Lord knows the Villa's needs are desperate. However, it looks as if someone was very desperate indeed.
Hi Martin.
While you're here can you tell us why you turned down the West Ham job?
In fact, just piss off.
There's no need for that.
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It was just part of the roleplay that he's Martin O'Neill.
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It was just part of the roleplay that he's Martin O'Neill.
In which case add one for me, as long as you promise faithfully that it's only pretend.
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It was just part of the roleplay that he's Martin O'Neill.
In which case add one for me, as long as you promise faithfully that it's only pretend.
I think I've just walked in on MON enjoying a threesome... and I really don't want to read any further back on this thread. I'll just shut the door quietly, log off and go back to my room.
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Whatever happens from here on. I just want to say thank you Ged for the most exciting January window for yonks .........
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It was just part of the roleplay that he's Martin O'Neill.
In which case add one for me, as long as you promise faithfully that it's only pretend.
I think I've just walked in on MON enjoying a threesome... and I really don't want to read any further back on this thread. I'll just shut the door quietly, log off and go back to my room.
With your ear against the wall, you love it really.
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£24 million quid for Bent? At that rate I'm worth a cool 12 million on condition I only play for 5 minutes and kick with my right foot, because with my left foot direction is a problem. He might be useful, because Lord knows the Villa's needs are desperate. However, it looks as if someone was very desperate indeed.
Interesting viewpoint.
Considering that Bent has only scored one less goal than both Rooney and Drogba over the last five years, and ignoring that Spurzzzzz paid 16.5 million for a player that has improved a lot since that time, also ignoring that the deal is 18 million, only rising to 24 if Bent is a great success (what a shame that would be). Finally taking into account the general transfer dealings of this day and age, I have 2 questions for you.
1. What do you think is a realistic asking price for Darren Bent?
2. We NEEDED a striker, would you rather we sign Kenny Miller, Robbie Keane or some other has been / never was?
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I didn't want GH, not because he wasn't MON, but because he's been out of Premier League, first team football for too long and I honestly thought we could do alot better.
So far I don't think i'm wrong, looking at the teams performances under GH it was hard to see a plan as we became more and more disorganised, particularly at the back, with players playing in baffling positions whilst GH displayed the PR skills of Pol Pot. Let's not pretend it's been anything other than fecking ordinary.
Having said that, i'm loving what he's been doing this transfer window and i'm finally starting to see a plan take shape. It's not a 'revolution', as some of the MON detractors and revisionists would have you believe, signing one or two players won't do that. But it's a massive step forward and it already feels like a great weight has been lifted from the Club.
So he starts the job again on Saturday, his team, his way with 100% support from all. Good luck Ged.
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I hope that Houllier can keep a lid on the various leaks to the press that seemed to be coming out of Bodymore Heath on a daily basis towards the end of last year. Starting with himself and then laying down the law to the players.
And I hope he has now revised his opinion that we are a "top 12" side.
And I'd love it, love it, right, if Bent bags a few on Saturday
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What would cap it for me on saturday would be to beat man city and hear houlliers name being chanted in a positive manner- our season starts here and watch us move up that table- my hope is to finish above Sunderland and I fully believe we will do so, from sunderland down they are all catchable- let's go get them!