Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: old man villa fan on December 31, 2010, 09:12:33 PM
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If Houllier does manage to pull the team around and move up the table to say 8th or 9th, will he ever be able to win the fans over. Has too much been said against him for fans to ever accept him, regardless of what he achieves.
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Yes, of course he would.
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Had the internet been around in September 1989 we'd be saying the same about Sir Graham.
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And I'd still say the same.
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If he gets results then yes- how many houllier threads are there on here?
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Far too many. I'll sort it when I've sobered up. Will 2016 do?
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if he could get us playing like we did against Manu then he can come on the pitch and sing youre never walk alone in front of the Holte END
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If he gets results then yes- how many houllier threads are there on here?
Specific question not asked on any other topic (I don't think) to gauge reaction. Not difficult to answer (or is it?).
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A few wins and things would look very much better. I seem to be in a minority who feel that certain spoilt players have far more to answer for than the Manager. He is trying to do things differently- I am optimistic things will improve.
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Get results and the fans will be right behind him, especially a result at The Sty
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How many mangers recover from such a bad start? Fergies start wasn't as bad as this.
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How many mangers recover from such a bad start? Fergies start wasn't as bad as this.
Sir Graham was bottom of the league after three games and Brian Little didn't exactly start off in glory. Fergie finished runners-up in his first full season.
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Not quite the same then.
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Not the same, but oft-overlooked.
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if he could get us playing like we did against Manu then he can come on the pitch and sing youre never walk alone in front of the Holte END
If we can play like that and win - he can sing it with a flower stuck up his arse I won't mind if we start getting 3pts on a regular basis!
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Yes easy win the FA Cup this year and I am all his!
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He can win over the vast majority. Unfortunately there will always be a small number who will never be happy with him.
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of course.
He would win over 100% of the fans if he was successful. An FA cup win or qualification for the champions league next season and the holte would be singing his name non stop!
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All managers need to get some "brownie points" in the bank, early doors. Either via success or by sweet talking the fans and not being too confrontational.
Then, when the thin times come, as they always do, the fans will have a touch more patience.
In the case of Houllier, quite a few things have conspired against him. The awful way in which he was appointed, including being asked twice, the rank bad form of many players, who last year played so well, and the injury crisis. But his behaviour at Anfield was all his own work and alienated a lot of fans.
Thus we have a lynch mob at such an early stage. It didn't happen to MON or Taylor because one never said anything to upset the fans and the other won promotion in his first season.
Hou's is on the back foot now, only one thing will save him. Results.
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I don't think I could ever get behind a manager who so openly prefers us to lose to Liverpool while being in charge of us.
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I don't think I could ever get behind a manager who so openly prefers us to lose to Liverpool while being in charge of us.
A remarkable twisting of his words there!
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Dont care what he said exactly, but that's the truth and everybody knows it.
Its not just the way he behaved at Anfield, but its the things he says.
His press conference when we got him, he said something along the lines of Villa are not in the same league as Liverpool, he sees Villa as a 7th - 12th club. We finished above Liverpool last season we finished 6th for the past 3 seasons in a row ffs! He doesn't need to say things like that. Its the last thing a fan wants to hear from their new manager.
The fact that after the Liverpool game he refused to apologise and said he was only joking - does he think we're stupid or something? Then when he did apologise at the pre match conference he said it in a way that he couldnt understand what all the fuss was about, in a shrugging of the shoulders kind of way. Oh I could go on and on but its all been said before.
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It is difficult to like the bloke after he demeaned us upon his appointment and then went bleary eyed at Anfield, I think if he wasnt such a PR disaster he would be given a lot more patience and understanding considering the injury problems he has had to deal with. The squad he now has at his disposal is better than the league position he now needs to show that.
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It's the truth only in your strange, delusional and paranoid mind!
Happy New Year anyway.
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But surely the point is that as football is an emotional, irrational sport and following a team heightens that that any truth is the absolute truth? Any fan who feels like, junxs, and I don't by the way, has every right to feel that way? Not only that but they are right. just because we don't believe it doesn't make it any less justifiable than those of us who are content in sitting back and hoping things get better. What's to say we're right? No point imposing any logic onto a subject that defies any logic.
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It's the truth only in your strange, delusional and paranoid mind!
Happy New Year anyway.
Thanks. You're very gullable, bizarre and naive. Merry Christmas.
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i have never seen a manager so determined to lower expectations on his appointment, this and his subsequent goings on about liverpool gives the impression that he thinks he is doing us a favour by managing The Villa. Firstly he needs to pull some results out the bag and secondly show that he is actually commited to the cause, the problem he has right now is that a lot of fans dont think he can do the first which means they believe that he dosent care
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I've never seen a new manager's words so critically debated and misconstrued.
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It's the truth only in your strange, delusional and paranoid mind!
Happy New Year anyway.
Thanks. You're very gullable, bizarre and naive. Merry Christmas.
So it's the strange, delusional and paranoid versus gulliable, bizarre and naive. Clash of the titans so early in the year and possibly the earliest Merry Christmas in 2011!!
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It's the truth only in your strange, delusional and paranoid mind!
Happy New Year anyway.
Thanks. You're very gullable, bizarre and naive. Merry Christmas.
I'd rather be thought of as gullable (sic), bizarre and naive than actually believe that our manager deliberately went out to lose to another club!
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Dave I watched the interview, listened to him on the radio and then read the subsequent quotes he gave at that time,
tell me why he kept banging on about us being a mid table team and comparing us unfavourably with Liverpool. Then he compounds the situation with his antics at Liverpool. He is either naive, stupid, arrogant or completely out of touch.
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Once, I believe he said something about seventh-twelfth.
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Well thats ok then as he only said it ONCE!
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It's the truth only in your strange, delusional and paranoid mind!
Happy New Year anyway.
Thanks. You're very gullable, bizarre and naive. Merry Christmas.
I'd rather be thought of as gullable (sic), bizarre and naive than actually believe that our manager deliberately went out to lose to another club!
And I'd rather be thought of as strange delusional and paranoid than believe that our manager feels more for our club than Liverpool. Also actually believe he touched the liverpool badge because its where he almost died and not becuase its some sort of Liverpool fans ritual.
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I'd rather believe the best of anyone involved with my club than go out of my way to jump to negative conclusions based on no hard evidence. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive as well.
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He did refer to Villa being seventh-twelfth but I believe it was in the context of his time when last employed in England i.e. his experience of Villa was that they were a club that finished around those positions when he was managing Liverpool. He also talked about Villa being former Champions of Europe, acknowledged the club's great history and compared us, a little later, to Paris SG.
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Let's give our manager the benefit of the doubt on all the negative things he's done since he took over, and let's concentrate on the positives. Anybody want to start us off....?
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Once, I believe he said something about seventh-twelfth.
It wasnt once it was several times on R5 live, SSN, Times, Telegraph and any one else that was prepared to listen "you cant compare them to Liverpool" was repeated. These interviews took place over the first few weeks of his appointment. The Telegraph repeated a lot of his quotes on thursday. I have seen that some on here have described the fans response after Anfield as an over reaction. Its not a massive leap of faith to link some of the performances including Anfield to the utterances of our manager. The players read and hear the same stuff as the fans, so it is not that surprising tht we have such a negative reaction to the manager.
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He did refer to Villa being seventh-twelfth but I believe it was in the context of his time when last employed in England i.e. his experience of Villa was that they were a club that finished around those positions when he was managing Liverpool. He also talked about Villa being former Champions of Europe, acknowledged the club's great history and compared us, a little later, to Paris SG.
no he did not talk in th past tense, and as said above he repeated the negative comparisons several times.
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I'd be interested to see where he said all those things, all those times.
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He did refer to Villa being seventh-twelfth but I believe it was in the context of his time when last employed in England i.e. his experience of Villa was that they were a club that finished around those positions when he was managing Liverpool. He also talked about Villa being former Champions of Europe, acknowledged the club's great history and compared us, a little later, to Paris SG.
no he did not talk in th past tense, and as said above he repeated the negative comparisons several times.
If he did do that then he would have to be barking mad as he was taking over a club that had finished top six for the past three years.
Could it be his French accent that makes it easy to misconstrue the tense and thus meaning of what he is trying to say? Many Europeans who have English as a second tongue will add an "s" or take away an "s" from a verb making the tense they are using seem at odds with what they are actually saying.
I know he taught English in the past but that does not mean his English is always perfect. I was listening to his press conference today, for example, and he made one or two mistakes with his word choice.
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It feels there has been possibly a tectonic shift in the camp in the last 24 hrs and I hope in a positive way
Perhaps they've had the scraps that needed to happen in a more open way and now we can move forward, let's hope there's a big love in going on now and the first to face the backlash will be Chelski
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I'd be interested to see where he said all those things, all those times.
obviously you think i am making it up, you can lokk back on here at the time of his appointment to see some of it, or get thursdays telegraph
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I'd be interested to see where he said all those things, all those times.
obviously you think i am making it up, you can lokk back on here at the time of his appointment to see some of it, or get thursdays telegraph
I don't think you're making anything up, but these things do tend to have a life of their own - look at the stuff that was flying round on Tuesday night.
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Win games and he'll be OK.
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So, the positives....
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I still stand by my position about Houllier not being the man for Villa, but now is his time to earn whatever wages he's on (he's not done it yet IMO) and if he manages like we're led to believe, we'll be upwardly mobile fairly shortly. I'll never love him but you can't argue with results and if Houllier achieves them then he has my backing.
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No.
No, he won't.
And you can take that to the bank.
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If he turns around the current situation he deserves support, I'm still hopeful he will.
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I think the absolute premium, best he could do is deliver a total of 44 points, or there abouts
Bearing in mind we delivered the heady total of 45 points under GT in 2003 and 42 under DOL in 2006, if he delivered 24 points from this stage onwards it would actually be an upcurve from the first part of the season. I'm not certain, but I think at present we are in a worse position points and position wise than we were at the same stage in 2002/03 and 2005/06.
It's generous to suggest that he'll deliver an upturn in performance, defensive stability and form in the second half of the campaign - close to flight of fantasy stuff based on what has gone on thus far.
But I sincerely hope he manages it.
And is then eased out in the summer.
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And I'd rather be thought of as strange delusional and paranoid than believe that our manager feels more for our club than Liverpool. Also actually believe he touched the liverpool badge because its where he almost died and not becuase its some sort of Liverpool fans ritual.
I'm sure he does feel more for Liverpool than Villa, after all he won a lot of trophies with them, but you inferred that he wanted Liverpool to beat Villa in that match, which is patently bollocks.
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If we stay up comfortably, then we will hopefully keep hold of him and he will get a proper transfer window in the summer to get the squad in the way he wants in place for next season. And he will retain my backing as long as we survive the season. The circumstances around the season have been so dire that he deserves some calm water to put the ship right.
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As long as the result's improve that's what matters a couple of wins and he will be flavour of the month.
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As long as the result's improve that's what matters a couple of wins and he will be flavour of the month.
It's not that easy; maybe a top 8 finish and some quality football mixed with 100% commitment ( I'm not with the 110% thing, 100% will do for me !).
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I don't care as long as he starts gettin the results
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After the Man City the poll on the other thread was something like 80/20 against. Since then the grown ups have voted and it's now at around 60/40. If results improve and we make a couple of decent signings see no reason why that shouldn't shift again.
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If results improve. Nothing else matters. Big if though.
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No don't think he will. More, much more importantly will he win over the players? No I don't hink he will.
If he wins over the players we might get the results - if we get the results he just may gain some time with the fans.
But.... I see in The "Mail on Line" today he is blaming the senior players lack of mental strength. Dunne is blaming McAllister for not spending anytime in training on tactics or defensive work against set pieces for example. Division, poor management.
Train wreck. Too few points. Other lower clubs fighting hard. I pray I am wrong.
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He has to win the players over first!
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A week is a long time in football
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the man city poll was up soon after the game when passions were running high - i think in the cold light of day a few people have calmed down and maybe had voted in haste.
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Don't worry it will all kick off again tomorrow no doubt
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I think he will win over the fans when he get some exciting quality players and get on a good run of form and hopefully a trophy or nine.
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I've never seen a new manager's words so critically debated and misconstrued.
This was my reason for asking the question.
I can understand people being critical of performance and comments made but it has gone further than that. We have people openly fabricating stories to use against the manager, why? We have people twisting comments to suit their arguement against the manager, why?
The age of the internet has meant news travels very fast and rumours spread like wildfire. People pick up on comments, treate them as gospel and comment on them, sometimes without thinking about why it was said and whether it is true. Take the comment the other night when it was said GH was not travelling back with the team and was attending a Liverpool function, which somebody later said was totally untrue. Why would somebody want to make up something like that, which would show the manager in a bad light and ultimately show up the club and the supporters. It is the last bit that I am struggling to accept as a long time Villa supporter. Everybody has a right to give their opinion but I have always believed that we should get behind the club and give the people that run the club the time to put plans into action. It is very easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise. It is not so easy these days to show some restraint and understanding of the problems before criticising.
My opinion, GH will never get the full support of the fans, too much has been said. If results do improve and we finish the season on a high, there will still be some supporters waiting for the next setback. Things will not happen quick enough for some (in this day and age probably many). How many people these days accept they are wrong and change their views, easy to say but difficult to action.
Randy Lerner selected Houllier (in my opinion) for the long term to slowly rebuild the team to challenge and sustain the challenge year after year. This was never going to be a short term taking of last seasons team and adding a couple of players. Many people recognised the limitations of the team, the most obvious being not being able to take a game to the opposition and dominate (an absolute requirement if you want to be a top team). As supporters we always believe the team is better than it actually is and that some players are better than they actually are, that is what being a fan is all about.
I think Randy is here for the long term but he knows that he cannot keep pumping in money like before as there will always be another owner that will come along similar to Man City. That way has to be on a sustainable development of the team that goes on year after year.
Until GH is able to field a settled side, injury free and add a couple of players to cover the loss of Milner and the deficiencies I will give him the time to show whether he still has it in him. The tipping point for me will probably be the end of February. I will either see the light at the end of the tunnel or will accept that my faith was misplaced and suggest we look for another manager, providing that it follows the same blueprint that I believe Randy is trying to follow and build for the future. I have seen too many periods of short term succes followed by periods of nothing or, even worse, failure.
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I think the phrase the young people use is "What he said."
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or "this"
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~I agree he said some silly things. But its fairly standard practice for a new manager to talk down recent performances, for fairly obvious reasons. He was wrong to say we were a 7th-12 placed team; but it wasn't a million miles out. I feel that's where our 'natural' position would be if everyone performed to their potential across the division. ie top 6 'should' be: Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Spurs.
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~I agree he said some silly things. But its fairly standard practice for a new manager to talk down recent performances, for fairly obvious reasons. He was wrong to say we were a 7th-12 placed team; but it wasn't a million miles out. I feel that's where our 'natural' position would be if everyone performed to their potential across the division. ie top 6 'should' be: Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Spurs.
How often have Tottenham and Man City finished above us over the years? They maybe be better than us right now, but there's nothing traditional or 'natural' about those two teams being top six clubs.
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I've never seen a new manager's words so critically debated and misconstrued.
This was my reason for asking the question.
I can understand people being critical of performance and comments made but it has gone further than that. We have people openly fabricating stories to use against the manager, why? We have people twisting comments to suit their arguement against the manager, why?
The age of the internet has meant news travels very fast and rumours spread like wildfire. People pick up on comments, treate them as gospel and comment on them, sometimes without thinking about why it was said and whether it is true. Take the comment the other night when it was said GH was not travelling back with the team and was attending a Liverpool function, which somebody later said was totally untrue. Why would somebody want to make up something like that, which would show the manager in a bad light and ultimately show up the club and the supporters. It is the last bit that I am struggling to accept as a long time Villa supporter. Everybody has a right to give their opinion but I have always believed that we should get behind the club and give the people that run the club the time to put plans into action. It is very easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise. It is not so easy these days to show some restraint and understanding of the problems before criticising.
My opinion, GH will never get the full support of the fans, too much has been said. If results do improve and we finish the season on a high, there will still be some supporters waiting for the next setback. Things will not happen quick enough for some (in this day and age probably many). How many people these days accept they are wrong and change their views, easy to say but difficult to action.
Randy Lerner selected Houllier (in my opinion) for the long term to slowly rebuild the team to challenge and sustain the challenge year after year. This was never going to be a short term taking of last seasons team and adding a couple of players. Many people recognised the limitations of the team, the most obvious being not being able to take a game to the opposition and dominate (an absolute requirement if you want to be a top team). As supporters we always believe the team is better than it actually is and that some players are better than they actually are, that is what being a fan is all about.
I think Randy is here for the long term but he knows that he cannot keep pumping in money like before as there will always be another owner that will come along similar to Man City. That way has to be on a sustainable development of the team that goes on year after year.
Until GH is able to field a settled side, injury free and add a couple of players to cover the loss of Milner and the deficiencies I will give him the time to show whether he still has it in him. The tipping point for me will probably be the end of February. I will either see the light at the end of the tunnel or will accept that my faith was misplaced and suggest we look for another manager, providing that it follows the same blueprint that I believe Randy is trying to follow and build for the future. I have seen too many periods of short term succes followed by periods of nothing or, even worse, failure.
Top post.
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I'm not so sure Randy's here 'for the long term' myself.
I think he's accepting that it takes very serious money to really compete these days, and he is not a bottomless pit of said commodity.
I for one would not be surprised to see a dilution at the very least in the next year or two.
Re. Houllier, he's not a 'Villa Manager', don't know how else to explain it.
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As an (almost) bus pass supporter myself I agreed with all that OMVF said. Give it a chance and those of us of a certain age usually do. I supported the Houllier appointment as "the next step" appointment. Long or medium term.
But now it is different. It smells of a mistake. Of relegation. Of division in players ranks, lack of discipline, passion, common cause, man management errors. Training debates. And yes somehow not a devotion to Aston Villa.
Half watching Baggies Man U. Baggies down within three minutes but have fought, hassled and even played some nice footy. Equalised, should have had a definite pen and the stats are in their favour.
Even if they eventually get tonked second half I would cheer them off. Not Villa against City, Liverpool etc etc. No fight.
Ok OMVF you want to give it end Feb. What do we do then? At the moment 20 points - half season gone. And we are not fighting like the W's or any one else around us.
Not this time. Get rid of McAllister at least. Now. Mistake made. GH has lost fans, players, and I suspect the Board.
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Let's give our manager the benefit of the doubt on all the negative things he's done since he took over, and let's concentrate on the positives. Anybody want to start us off....?
Given the current mess we are in, that should'nt have made me laugh as much as it did.
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I think Houllier is a Dr. Venglos appointment. Very different and brave at the time but he did just not fit.
Given the English football mentality of our squad, and the football they were used to (for better or worse) this is a bridge too far. We don't have the luxury anymore of this experiment.
He has a great CV and it made some sense to take him on as an upward, sensible Euro minded Manager to guide us to the top four. And beyond. Good for Randy et al.
However, he and his sidekick have failed. Already. We can debate whether it is him or the players rejecting his style - and who is to know who is right- but we will be relegated playing like this. That will destroy us for many years. We cannot afford this experiment and in August I said we could. I was wrong.
Am I alone in this? Get rid of this mistake. The cost in severence is nothing in comparison.
BTW I guess we will hammer Chelsea now after that rant. :)
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I've never seen a new manager's words so critically debated and misconstrued.
This was my reason for asking the question.
I can understand people being critical of performance and comments made but it has gone further than that. We have people openly fabricating stories to use against the manager, why? We have people twisting comments to suit their arguement against the manager, why?
The age of the internet has meant news travels very fast and rumours spread like wildfire. People pick up on comments, treate them as gospel and comment on them, sometimes without thinking about why it was said and whether it is true. Take the comment the other night when it was said GH was not travelling back with the team and was attending a Liverpool function, which somebody later said was totally untrue. Why would somebody want to make up something like that, which would show the manager in a bad light and ultimately show up the club and the supporters. It is the last bit that I am struggling to accept as a long time Villa supporter. Everybody has a right to give their opinion but I have always believed that we should get behind the club and give the people that run the club the time to put plans into action. It is very easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise. It is not so easy these days to show some restraint and understanding of the problems before criticising.
My opinion, GH will never get the full support of the fans, too much has been said. If results do improve and we finish the season on a high, there will still be some supporters waiting for the next setback. Things will not happen quick enough for some (in this day and age probably many). How many people these days accept they are wrong and change their views, easy to say but difficult to action.
Randy Lerner selected Houllier (in my opinion) for the long term to slowly rebuild the team to challenge and sustain the challenge year after year. This was never going to be a short term taking of last seasons team and adding a couple of players. Many people recognised the limitations of the team, the most obvious being not being able to take a game to the opposition and dominate (an absolute requirement if you want to be a top team). As supporters we always believe the team is better than it actually is and that some players are better than they actually are, that is what being a fan is all about.
I think Randy is here for the long term but he knows that he cannot keep pumping in money like before as there will always be another owner that will come along similar to Man City. That way has to be on a sustainable development of the team that goes on year after year.
Until GH is able to field a settled side, injury free and add a couple of players to cover the loss of Milner and the deficiencies I will give him the time to show whether he still has it in him. The tipping point for me will probably be the end of February. I will either see the light at the end of the tunnel or will accept that my faith was misplaced and suggest we look for another manager, providing that it follows the same blueprint that I believe Randy is trying to follow and build for the future. I have seen too many periods of short term succes followed by periods of nothing or, even worse, failure.
I don't give a shiny shite about internet gossip or PR gaffes. What I see on the pitch every other week looks like relegation fodder, if he turns it round he'll win me over. Sadly, I think there's more chance he won't.
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Agreed Perc.
All that other bobbins would barely register if we were getting results on the pitch, or even delivering a level of performance that might indicate good times were ahead.
We're down on both of those, so it's a concern.
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Percy, Kevin. More succintly put. Tx.
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Once, I believe he said something about seventh-twelfth.
It wasnt once it was several times on R5 live, SSN, Times, Telegraph and any one else that was prepared to listen "you cant compare them to Liverpool" was repeated. These interviews took place over the first few weeks of his appointment. The Telegraph repeated a lot of his quotes on thursday. I have seen that some on here have described the fans response after Anfield as an over reaction. Its not a massive leap of faith to link some of the performances including Anfield to the utterances of our manager. The players read and hear the same stuff as the fans, so it is not that surprising tht we have such a negative reaction to the manager.
I think it may have been the same interview repeated.
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I don't care what he says. I see what he has done.
It ain't the players, or squad. The previous league positions and tbh the performance against United prove that.
It is man management. Tactical nouse.
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And I'd rather be thought of as strange delusional and paranoid than believe that our manager feels more for our club than Liverpool. Also actually believe he touched the liverpool badge because its where he almost died and not becuase its some sort of Liverpool fans ritual.
I'm sure he does feel more for Liverpool than Villa, after all he won a lot of trophies with them, but you inferred that he wanted Liverpool to beat Villa in that match, which is patently bollocks.
I just searched google images for Houllier touching the Liverpool logo in the tunnel before taking "his" Aston Villa team to face the rival. Couldnt find it, maybe I dreamt the whole thing? in which case i take back everything I said. That in my eyes would be wishing the opposition luck. Don't know what spin your about to put on it.
Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
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Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
There's nothing like adding a bit of perspective. And that's nothing like.....
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Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
There's nothing like adding a bit of perspective. And that's nothing like.....
The thing is, now he finds himself needing all the friends he can get, and he hasn't really got very many - these are the times at which all those little gaffes in the past add up and count for something.
He's perilously short of support - even man of those who, like me, don't think he should be sacked only think that way because changing manager now would be counter productive, rather than out of a great belief in what he's trying to do.
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Agreed Perc.
All that other bobbins would barely register if we were getting results on the pitch, or even delivering a level of performance that might indicate good times were ahead.
We're down on both of those, so it's a concern.
Exactly. We haven't even given most teams a decent game in recent weeks, and are averaging over 2 goals a game conceded. Whatever problems he's had, that's shit by anybody's standards.
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He has done terribly thus far. That we can see for ourselves. i would wait until the transfer window has come and gone, and then see how we do. All our players will be back and we should have enough to pull away from the bottom. What we need is stability in the backroom and avoid a manager appointing every single position as the result when he goes and takes everyone with him is what we've seen since O'Neill left.
I'm still unsure about Houllier but its too early to pull the trigger. But he hasn't got too long if we start to drift behind the safety line. Its embarrassing that come this time tomorrow we will have the worst goal difference in the league. That has not been addressed since the Newcastle debacle- the woeful defending.
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Do you really want to give this baffoon a transfer window though? It will just make it harder for whoever we appoint in the summer getting shot of players on big wages while we're preparing for championship football.
The truth is theres no way this board will sack the manager after just a few months, but General if you're reading this, then please please make sure that there is a clause in all new players contracts so if we get relegated then the wages have to be dropped by 50% otherwise it will be much harder trying to get back up.
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Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
Is that more or less disrespectful than deserting the team 6 days before a new season starts?
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Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
Is that more or less disrespectful than deserting the team 6 days before a new season starts?
It doesn teven compare, managers and clubs part company all the time. Its the end of a relationship.
Touching the oppositions badge in some kind of ritual when "your" team is about to play them is cheating in relationship terms.
You tell me whats worse..
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I am not a GH fan and I wish he not come here. Came here he did and that IMO was for the wrong reasons. He came for the money and I didn't like him touching the f in badge either.
However it was a bit of a private thing to do. The team had walked out in front of him as the did rest of the staff. He got caught, naively, by a little bit of romance that still rules his heart. I visited a former employers premises a couple of years ago and had similars emotions even though they are a direct competitor to my current employer. It was a mistake that Houllier should not have made knowing that these days everything in on camera but not disrespectful to his current club.
However IMO O'Neill's action was more disrespectful to the Club, the fans and the team.
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Touching the oppositions badge right before the match is the most disrespectful thing an Aston Villa manager has ever have done in my time of following Aston Villa. Shame I couldn't find the hard evidence.
Is that more or less disrespectful than deserting the team 6 days before a new season starts?
It doesn teven compare, managers and clubs part company all the time. Its the end of a relationship.
Touching the oppositions badge in some kind of ritual when "your" team is about to play them is cheating in relationship terms.
You tell me whats worse..
You're right. The two don't compare.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree Dave, more than likely MONs leaving had something to do with not being able to spend the Milner money. But I cant think of a feasibe reason why Houllier would want to touch another clubs badge.
How would you have felt if it was the Birmingham City badge?
Maybe that has something to do with it. A good 60% of the people I know are Liverpool fans, so his actions may mean a lot more to me than they do to you.
For the first time in a long time, since the mid 80s, I dont feel like following/watching tomorrows game. It pains me to say that, but thats how I feel about this prat in charge. Give me Les Reed over Houllier anyday. At least he might sweat for the cause.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree Dave, more than likely MONs leaving had something to do with not being able to spend the Milner money. But I cant think of a feasibe reason why Houllier would want to touch another clubs badge.
How would you have felt if it was the Birmingham City badge?
Maybe that has something to do with it. A good 60% of the people I know are Liverpool fans, so his actions may mean a lot more to me than they do to you.
For the first time in a long time, since the mid 80s, I dont feel like following/watching tomorrows game. It pains me to say that, but thats how I feel about this prat in charge. Give me Les Reed over Houllier anyday. At least he might sweat for the cause.
I wouldn't have been that bothered.
How about walking out and joining Birmingham City, just for starters?
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There are many views on the conduct of Houllier at Anfield, and comments regarding Liverpool attributed to our manager, ranging from the ambivalent to the downright furious.
Whatever your views, it can't be denied that these off the field issues have made the on the field job a damn sight more difficult. And they could have been avoided.
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That's quite right Nev, if he get's results, and he needs some quickly, and we start to move away from danger then he'll be alright till the end of the season atleast, probably longer. From then on he can build his own team and be judged totally on that. He obviously knows the game and has a great network of contacts so he could be just waht we need.
However, he needs to get there first.
If he can't improve the results of late, then clearly he'll be in serious trouble as he pissed alot of his goodwill up the wall with various comments and actions on and since his appointment - and these are not exclusive to those he made at Anfield imo.
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I've been a little concerned about his apparent inconsistency from the outset:
- before game 1 he said he thought young needed to play on the wing because it was where he was getting picked for England. A good 30 mins against Blackburn and he's talking about him being world class, but behind the striker not on the wing. Seemed strange.
- didn't play Carlos despite his one game being very good, and talked warmly of dunne's experience. Then suddenly he's completely out in the cold.
- pires signing was an odd one, certainly to start.
- other team changes have been odd.
Having said all that, we were actually playing some good stuff just not taking our chances and conceding daft goals. Hard to tell now whether we're just short of confidence. Or whether there's a more serious man management issue across the squad. I suspect these things get blown out of all proportion
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Agreed Perc.
All that other bobbins would barely register if we were getting results on the pitch, or even delivering a level of performance that might indicate good times were ahead.
We're down on both of those, so it's a concern.
Exactly. We haven't even given most teams a decent game in recent weeks...
That's just not true. We were shit at Man City but we gave Spurs a decent game and beat Albion in our last three games.
There are clearly enough real issues without the need to exaggerate them to make a point.
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
We outplayed the Blues for most of the games and made more than enough chances to get something against Spurs. Blackburn was mid November so you've got an odd definition of recent weeks. It shows a lack of confidence in your argument that you feel the need to over egg it.
We're struggling at the moment but the overall impression under Houllier is that we've been inconsistent, some good performances, some dire and a lot veering between the two. If we're still playing like this when he's had a full squad to choose from for a number of games then we will have every reason to be concerned but at the moment there's very little to be gained by panicking and as a consequence wasting another transfer window as anyone coming in over the next 2-3 weeks will have no time to make any assessment of his players and little chance to scout and recruit replacements.
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Well, we'll see. A decent performance against Chelsea followed by wins in our next two games and you could be right. A heavy defeat at Chelsea followed by another in the league and I think it'll be curtains. There's only so long you can go on hoping for a improvement if it never looks like coming.
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A run of good form that results in us rising up the table and before you know it the Holte will be humming the La Marseillaise. Today would be a fantastic time to begin the run!
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
We outplayed the Blues for most of the games and made more than enough chances to get something against Spurs. Blackburn was mid November so you've got an odd definition of recent weeks. It shows a lack of confidence in your argument that you feel the need to over egg it.
In fairness Chris, i don't remember us outplaying Blues that much. We kept the ball and passed it round, but i don't remember Foster having too many saves to make. Besides, bearing in mind how bad they are at the moment, outplaying them and losing is not much comfort. As for the Spurs game, you could'nt tell we were playing against 10 men and again Gomes did'nt have a fat lot to do. The less said about the Liverpool game the better.
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He needs a big win to get the players and fans on his side like today. I just cant see it though. Man Utd was the perfect opportunity, we played pretty well really but collapsed too and a chance to build momentum was lost. Fulham away another two points tossed away, Sunderland away - how we lost that match I'll never know. But of late and with players coming back we have simply nosedived with some truly unacceptable performances. West Brom was a blip but I dont think we particularly played that well that day either and reverted to type in the next game. Players and supporters judge a manager ultimately on results and Houllier's have been disastrous thus far. To be honest I think he needs a result today. If we are hammered he has to go.
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he has to go? why? even the most staunch mon supporter knows we always got dicked down at chelsea. This is a game where the performance has to improve granted, however every season i put this down as no points and i dont see it changing today!
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
We outplayed the Blues for most of the games and made more than enough chances to get something against Spurs. Blackburn was mid November so you've got an odd definition of recent weeks. It shows a lack of confidence in your argument that you feel the need to over egg it.
In fairness Chris, i don't remember us outplaying Blues that much. We kept the ball and passed it round, but i don't remember Foster having too many saves to make. Besides, bearing in mind how bad they are at the moment, outplaying them and losing is not much comfort. As for the Spurs game, you could'nt tell we were playing against 10 men and again Gomes did'nt have a fat lot to do. The less said about the Liverpool game the better.
The argument was that we 'didn't give anyone a decent game' and I just don't see it that way. I'm not trying to pretend that we have been brilliant, far from it, but besides Liverpool and Man City we've at least been competitive in most games.
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
Quite.
I don't see who you couldn't back him, if he achieved the impossible and beat Chelsea.
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
Quite.
I don't see who you couldn't back him, if he achieved the impossible and beat Chelsea.
beating chelsea is not impossible, the shit beat them ... the thing is under houllier he is going to play a boring 4-5-1 with no attacking phases in the tactics... so basically chelsea will have the high majority of the posession and keep pressing and then they will score many goals against us because the team is low on confidence because houllier is a fucking ****** and needs to go now !!!
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
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Charming.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
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Oh dear, well it's clearly going to be a pointless debate.
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
We outplayed the Blues for most of the games and made more than enough chances to get something against Spurs. Blackburn was mid November so you've got an odd definition of recent weeks. It shows a lack of confidence in your argument that you feel the need to over egg it.
In fairness Chris, i don't remember us outplaying Blues that much. We kept the ball and passed it round, but i don't remember Foster having too many saves to make. Besides, bearing in mind how bad they are at the moment, outplaying them and losing is not much comfort. As for the Spurs game, you could'nt tell we were playing against 10 men and again Gomes did'nt have a fat lot to do. The less said about the Liverpool game the better.
The argument was that we 'didn't give anyone a decent game' and I just don't see it that way. I'm not trying to pretend that we have been brilliant, far from it, but besides Liverpool and Man City we've at least been competitive in most games.
I think what people are trying to say is that we have'nt really looked like winning games. Albion was a much needed win and thank god we did and the Man Utd comeback was typical although we did play bloody well. Apart from Fulham away, i've not come away from too many matches we've drawn or lost thinking that we should have won.
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
Quite.
I don't see who you couldn't back him, if he achieved the impossible and beat Chelsea.
Agreed. It would be a massive result that would restore the confidence that at present seems sadly lacking, and radiate onto the forthcoming games.
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Nonsense. 10 man Spurs never remotely looked like losing to us, and there are more games in 'recent weeks' than three. Liverpool was dismal, Blackburn was dismal and so was the cup game against the Blues.
We outplayed the Blues for most of the games and made more than enough chances to get something against Spurs. Blackburn was mid November so you've got an odd definition of recent weeks. It shows a lack of confidence in your argument that you feel the need to over egg it.
In fairness Chris, i don't remember us outplaying Blues that much. We kept the ball and passed it round, but i don't remember Foster having too many saves to make. Besides, bearing in mind how bad they are at the moment, outplaying them and losing is not much comfort. As for the Spurs game, you could'nt tell we were playing against 10 men and again Gomes did'nt have a fat lot to do. The less said about the Liverpool game the better.
The argument was that we 'didn't give anyone a decent game' and I just don't see it that way. I'm not trying to pretend that we have been brilliant, far from it, but besides Liverpool and Man City we've at least been competitive in most games.
Being competitive against the likes of Blackburn and Birmingham is acceptable? We have been a shambles since he took over really. Every manager tends to take over in trying circumstances. It never is ideal but the results in the worst quality league in many a year have been unacceptable and that is the bottom line. Whether he tried to change too much too soon or is just a highly paid incompetent manager is neither here nor there. Results are what a manager lives by and he is struggling big time.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
He hasn't been given the necessary time needed as yet, not to mention the injuries.
These are all old arguments anyway.
Calling him a c*** helps nobody.
How about getting behind the side?
Support is needed now more than ever.
What's with the Omar 'fucking' Cummings bit anyway?
You've never seen him play.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
So Cummings is shite before he's kicked a ball? I reckon GH probably won't be to arse about winning over some of the morons in our support.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
So Cummings is shite before he's kicked a ball? I reckon GH probably won't be to arse about winning over some of the morons in our support.
He has kicked a ball though and his stats from the MSL dont make pleasant reading.
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Watching Sunday Supplement earlier, and reading some ITK information on other websites, it appears that whoever came in faced a difficult, dispirited, divided dressing room.
For me the quicker GH can get about 4/5 out, and bring in 4/5 the better.Then we can judge wheteher hes a c**t or not for me.
I think he'll be alright tbh, although i think we may have to accept lower expectations.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
So Cummings is shite before he's kicked a ball? I reckon GH probably won't be to arse about winning over some of the morons in our support.
He has kicked a ball though and his stats from the MSL dont make pleasant reading.
He costs fuck all, but the main thing is that Houllier thinks he may be able to do a job for us.
Let's see him in action first before we write him off.
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because houllier is a fucking c*** and needs to go now !!!
Bravo.
so you want him yo stay with his lack of passion and negative football ? bring players like pires and omar fucking cummings in?
So Cummings is shite before he's kicked a ball? I reckon GH probably won't be to arse about winning over some of the morons in our support.
He has kicked a ball though and his stats from the MSL dont make pleasant reading.
I've seen the video from his agents but haven't seen the stats could you enlighten me on his poor performance in the MSL?
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He's on trial. If he looks okay he might be on loan. Someone tell me what's to lose.
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
Quite.
I don't see who you couldn't back him, if he achieved the impossible and beat Chelsea.
beating chelsea is not impossible, the shit beat them ... the thing is under houllier he is going to play a boring 4-5-1 with no attacking phases in the tactics...
Won't comment on the rest but I'd say the problem if anything has been that we're too open, looking to attack and then getting ripped to shreds on the counter.
I've seen a few mention that Gary Mac is to blame and whilst I don't automatically agree, any team he has either managed or coached in the past has been a long way from defensively sound.
In contrast, GH's Liverpool (never really watched Lyon for any length of time so couldn't comment) were often perceived to be a dour, defence first outfit. Phil Thompson was the no.2 then and whilst it's easy to jump to conclusions this side of the fence, I think it's as likely as any other theories doing the rounds that the difference vis a vis that GH side and this one could be down to the quality of assistant manager.
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will houllier win me over ??
if we win today
NO
That's the spirit. I'd rather he becomes a success for Villa.
Quite.
I don't see who you couldn't back him, if he achieved the impossible and beat Chelsea.
beating chelsea is not impossible, the shit beat them ... the thing is under houllier he is going to play a boring 4-5-1 with no attacking phases in the tactics...
Won't comment on the rest but I'd say the problem if anything has been that we're too open, looking to attack and then getting ripped to shreds on the counter.
I've seen a few mention that Gary Mac is to blame and whilst I don't automatically agree, any team he has either managed or coached in the past has been a long way from defensively sound.
In contrast, GH's Liverpool (never really watched Lyon for any length of time so couldn't comment) were often perceived to be a dour, defence first outfit. Phil Thompson was the no.2 then and whilst it's easy to jump to conclusions this side of the fence, I think it's as likely as any other theories doing the rounds that the difference vis a vis that GH side and this one could be down to the quality of assistant manager.
Maybe GMac is the problem but ultimately GH is the one who brought him in.