Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Mac on December 30, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
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We need to get rid of Houllier. Anyone will do. Anyone.
except...
Gary Megson,
or Sam Allardyce,
or Bryan Robson
or Peter Reid
or Gordon Strachan
or Kevin Blackwell
or Ian Dowie
or Darren Ferguson
or Phil Brown
or Alan Curbishley
or Gareth Southgate
or Diego Maradona
or Rafa Benitez
or Paul Jewell [EDIT1]
or Bob Bradley [EDIT2]
or Brian Laws [EDIT3]
Actually, thinking about it, ignore what I said.
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Can't we just sack Houllier and go for all of that list? Surely more heads and all that?
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I'm glad somebody took the time to highlight all of the glorious options available to us.
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Please Mods lock this thread. It is just compounding doom!
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It's a laugh, relax. We all know Paul Jewell's our boy.
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What about Martin Jol?
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The most amazing thing has been how many people have suggested we get that cock Allardyce in, with his Bluetooth headset, ProZone and vile 'football'
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It's a laugh, relax. We all know Paul Jewell's our boy.
I can only see that ending with a video in the NOTW with Chairmen's wife!
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Errr Mr Bob Bradley ?
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Brian Laws?
He is a very consistent manager.
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The most amazing thing has been how many people have suggested we get that cock Allardyce in, with his Bluetooth headset, ProZone and vile 'football'
Yes a cock he is. I heard from a very good source that he lost his job after inviting Venkys brothers to HIS office and dictating terms on he wanted them to run Blackburn. Described himself as SAF of Blackburn. This was not a long meeing!
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The most amazing thing has been how many people have suggested we get that cock Allardyce in, with his Bluetooth headset, ProZone and vile 'football'
He manages to make attendances drop at every club he goes to.
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I hear Chris Kamara fancies another stab at club management, could be worth a stab keeping in mind the impressive stint he did with Stoke City
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Easy to panic then regret it! Teams who keep changing managers tend to go down. I think we all need to take on board the mess we are in and get behind the club and the team. Its going to be a difficult year but I feel confident we will do enough. The manager has not impressed me so far but he has the experience. If we get one or two good players in now it will make a difference. The Sunderland game is masssive, make sure you are there and roaring the lads on.
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Available is the wrong criteria when appointing a manager.
You get the best man for your club regardless of if he is in a job/available.
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Available is the wrong criteria when appointing a manager.
You get the best man for your club regardless of if he is in a job/available.
You get the best man you can get. Some people seem to think there's a law that says if you want a manager really, really badly he has to join.
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Exactly, ie. We want David Moyes, but he'd never join
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Available is the wrong criteria when appointing a manager.
You get the best man for your club regardless of if he is in a job/available.
You get the best man you can get. Some people seem to think there's a law that says if you want a manager really, really badly he has to join.
And even then what manager would really, really want to join a club in the relegation mire. Obviously one who was at a lower level and he would be either very bad or a gamble who might prove to be bad.
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Or, and this has been overlooked in the rush of knees being jerked, would join a club who sack a manager after three months.
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The most amazing thing has been how many people have suggested we get that cock Allardyce in, with his Bluetooth headset, ProZone and vile 'football'
I don't know about ProZone, I would need Prozac if it was Allardyce. Second thoughts, save the cost of Prozac, topping myself seems a more appealing thought.
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The most amazing thing has been how many people have suggested we get that cock Allardyce in, with his Bluetooth headset, ProZone and vile 'football'
I don't know about ProZone, I would need Prozac if it was Allardyce. Second thoughts, save the cost of Prozac, topping myself seems a more appealing thought.
i would do what Gregnash did with Ellis, refuse to go while he was there.
i'd still come posting on here though and get on everyones tits,
like i said same as Gregnash
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Don't try and turn us into the next Barcodes. There in lies despair. I just watched Inception...I'm waiting for the kick...anytime you're ready.
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I would not go to see The Villa if we got Allardyce, i stopped going under DOL when i realised what a twat he was, i dont need any time to work out what Allardyce would do to our club
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Or, and this has been overlooked in the rush of knees being jerked, would join a club who sack a manager after three months.
which pretty much means we are stuck with him, I wonder if the real cause of the turmoil we appear to be in is KMAC not accepting the Assistant Managers Job
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We need to get rid of Houllier. Anyone will do. Anyone.
except...
Gary Megson,
or Sam Allardyce,
or Bryan Robson
or Peter Reid
or Gordon Strachan
or Kevin Blackwell
or Ian Dowie
or Darren Ferguson
or Phil Brown
or Alan Curbishley
or Gareth Southgate
or Diego Maradona
or Rafa Benitez
or Paul Jewell [EDIT1]
or Bob Bradley [EDIT2]
or Brian Laws [EDIT3]
Actually, thinking about it, ignore what I said.
just for a laugh, if you HAD to pick one of that list of superstars, who would it be ?
think it would be Curbs for me
ps, its harder than you think
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Maradonna for a laugh.
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Darren Ferguson, we'd then get first dip at SAF's rejects
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Why has nobody mentioned Chris Houghton
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Benitez, obviously.
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Hughton took over Newcastle in turmoil, got them promoted without any money, respected by everybody in the game, he might even persuade Andy carol to join us, Gabby playing off Carol, Downing Young Albrighton providing the service Job Done
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Actually.....
A coalition of 16 fuckwitt managers could be the way forward
No player could fall out with all of them surely?
No arguements about the managers tactics - we'd have all of them from hoofball to the beautiful game
if things go wrong we can have a poll on here each week and the loser gets the sack - rather like a football X-Factor - winner gets the job.
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I've always thought John Barnes would do a good job for us.
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What's Howard Wilkinson doing these days?
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Actually.....
A coalition of 16 fuckwitt managers could be the way forward
No player could fall out with all of them surely?
No arguements about the managers tactics - we'd have all of them from hoofball to the beautiful game
if things go wrong we can have a poll on here each week and the loser gets the sack - rather like a football X-Factor - winner gets the job.
I'm sure Ireland and Dunne will still find reasons not to go to work.
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You get the best man you can, not the best man available, Harry wasn't available when spurs got him.
Whereas we got what Randy thought was the best man available, that's the difference.
But believe it or not I still think Houllier will turn it around.
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Happy to see someone put the options in the manager stakes. All would snap your hands off to get to Villa, their dreams come true, problem is they're all crap. No that's not quite accurate most would be able to manage a side stuggling in the lower echelons of the premiership for the most they are used to survival mode. I have great faith that after Houll has performed some January magic in the transfer market we will propel ourselves up to the heady heights we've been accustomed to. New years eve ... wish...wish... fingers crossed... wish...wish.
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i think most of those options don't fill anyone with confidence even the Houllier out lot. I've yet to hear a realistic name mentioned. Just pie in the sky about Moyes etc..
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McLeish, Jol and Bruce are not pie in the sky, are realistic and better options than we have now. Villa is still a Premiership job. At least until the end of May.
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McLeish?
He of the below us in the table, 11 men behind the ball anti-football side?
The one who brought the majesty which is Nicola Zigic to the Premier League? Him?
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You get the best man you can, not the best man available, Harry wasn't available when spurs got him.
Harry Redknapp's always available. You can't get a manager who doesn't want to join.
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mcleish?!! you been on the sherry? Bruce has hardly pulled up trees either. Jol's record aint as good as Houlliers in the prem
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McLeish, Jol and Bruce are not pie in the sky, are realistic and better options than we have now. Villa is still a Premiership job. At least until the end of May.
Can you just imagine the absolute shitstorm that would greet two of those appointments?
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McLeish, Jol and Bruce are not pie in the sky, are realistic and better options than we have now. Villa is still a Premiership job. At least until the end of May.
Can you just imagine the absolute shitstorm that would greet two of those appointments?
it would make the GH appointment seem like the return of Sir Brian
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Better that than a bigger shitstorm when we go down. McLeish would have our defence organised inside three days, kick a few more arses and bring huge experience. He's also used to working within a tight budget, which is just as well.
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Better that than a bigger shitstorm when we go down. McLeish would have our defence organised inside three days, kick a few more arses and bring huge experience. He's also used to working within a tight budget, which is just as well.
so we're definitely going down?
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
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didnt Jol get sacked for coming 6th
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Randy gambled his £250 mil on MON, it nearly paid off, now we are dealing with the consequences
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Alright then. Who would you have appointed at the time?
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McLeish, Jol and Bruce are not pie in the sky, are realistic and better options than we have now. Villa is still a Premiership job. At least until the end of May.
No they are not. Two might keep us in the prem for a couple of seasons, Jol may keep things ticking over a bit longer. Fine if you want mid table (with relegation to follow), even the odd 6th place finish. We need to try things with a bit more vision. We cannot compete on money with at least 5 or 6 clubs so we need to get young players like Arsenal have, from shortly after we knocked them out of a semi final (we won that cup) and when we were their equal. I think that GH is the best bet for that compared to the three you name. GH is changing things and some of the less willing, overpaid, lazy, earn more than my year salary in a day, unfit, twatty, could not give a shit about The Villa, will not put in the effort because their new boss wants them to work abit harder, and pass a football, out of their comfort zone, unfit but not through injury, footballers, it is proving more difficult than it should be to build a new dawn.
I am fed up with the easy option of blaming the Manager. The easy option of not asking why highly paid staff are performing so badly- yeah, they do not like the new training, the Manager, the anythingbloodyelse, but they are trained athletes paid far too much not to adapt to some new ideas and a few extra laps. It is attitude. And bad attitude at that. Now, I am not saying GH is the answer, I have no idea if he is, he has only been here a short while. The problem however in my eyes is players not doing the basic things they have the ability to do.
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Sack Houllier for being unloyal – disloyal, and for joining in fun in a way that excludes his employer. And sack him for being an absolute idiot. Then can you contact Bill Oddie.
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Cowans and MacDonald. We've got to find our own management team from within the club and take the chance.
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Alright then. Who would you have appointed at the time?
well for starters i may have gone after people in a job with a proven record. oh and a bit quicker as well so we had a window to operate in...
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Randy gambled his £250 mil on MON, it nearly paid off, now we are dealing with the consequences
at the moment we are dealing with the consequences of an old man who has lost the dressing room and has no penetrating football style... the basis of that '£250mill' (seems a bit high). is still a good team....
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Cowans and MacDonald. We've got to find our own management team from within the club and take the chance.
you'd really want that?
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Cowans and MacDonald. We've got to find our own management team from within the club and take the chance.
Sounds brilliant that does... like the alternative Ant & Dec...
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Randy should sack Faulkner, rehire Martin O'Neill on acceptable terms and explode the internet :-)
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Randy should sack Faulkner, rehire Martin O'Neill on acceptable terms and explode the internet :-)
Yeah! Then we can sign a few Blackpool players on upwards of 50k a week and take the rest of Randy's money, finish 6th and thank the Lord (MON) for that. Or we could move on, buy talent from elsewhere. take a chance and stop banging on about MON!
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Sounds brilliant that does... like the alternative Ant & Dec...
[/quote]Cowans and MacDonald. We've got to find our own management team from within the club and take the chance.
you'd really want that?
All great managers have to start somewhere
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Get Les Reed in, he'll sort this mess out.
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I shall attempt to return to this thread in April to find some comfort in the sound of so many voices raised in singing along with the string quartet on the deck of the Titanic as they play Nearer My God To Thee with the North Atlantic lapping around their ankles.
The pain of the shambles a Eastlands has subsided and the denial is setting in again.
Football today is driven wholly by money. We can get anybody we want if we are prepared to pay the price. If you want David Moyes you write a big enough number on a piece of paper and he is yours. Likewise Wenger, Ferguson Snr and Redknapp (especially Redknapp).
All the names you list Mac are cheap options.
I think this thread should be re-titled Aren't We Lucky To Have Houllier and the answer to that question is no, quite the reverse. The spraying about of the names of rubbish managers as though those of us who oppose Houllier and are deeply critical of his performance since he joined us want Allardyce or Curbishley is totally disingenuous.
We will not get a top drawer manager or even a manager with the potential to become a top drawer manager because Martin O'Neill wasted so much money and the owner has said enough is enough. This is not to agree with Oliver Holt that it is all Randy Lerner's fault, it is not, it is the profligacy which went into achieving those three 6th places.
On another thread I said that I have seen Villa relegated many times and the older you get the more you realize that history repeats itself. What has happened in the past when disaster loomed the fans would be appeased by the signing of a big name goal scorer with his best years behind him. So we got Frankie Broome, Trevor Ford, Jackie Sewell and Dave Walsh. January will see the departure of Ireland, Beye, Carew and Dunne (sold or loaned) and the lollipop tossed to the fans will be Robbie Keane
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I seem to recall that last Summer there were plenty in the anti-MON brigade going on about getting shot of MON. Apparently, they'd be loads of big name applicants just desperate to manage Aston Villa, you'll see they said, they'll be queing up.
Turned out that the best we could come up with was a hugely uninspriring shortlist of Houllier, Curbishley, Bradley etc.
Much as I thought the GH appointment was a shocker ,which is unfortunatley being proven with every game lost and idiotic comment made, I can't see that the list of possible replacements would be much better now.
Having said that, defeats against Sunderland and Blose and I reckon RAL won't have much of a choice.
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where do we go from here???its so depressing.......relegations a certainty,
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I am with Brian Green having seen us relegated a few times. The current situation smells of relegation on all counts and it is almost as though the team is going through the motions. As a "work to rule" against Houllier by some? We can't know.
Motivation, morale, team spirit, will to win -call it what you like. We have lost it.
That is a management issue. Mc Callister? Houllier?
We can work on our tactics, defensive problems and anything else but without the 'fight' necessary in this league we will fail.
Wolves, Wigan, West Ham, Blues and the rest down with us still have that fighting spirit. We do not.
Chelsea will beat us unless there is a miraculous event, and possibly very badly. I mean humiliatingly.
If we lose to Sunderland then there is no debate: Houllier will have to go irrespective of his short tenure , injuries or any other excuse. The mental state of the team is his problem. It's management.
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where do we go from here???its so depressing.......relegations a certainty,
It's a certainty with the current team - on and off the pitch.
Give him 3 more games and maybe keep him for his contacts on another deal - Head of Scouting, France.
Replace him with someone who can motivate and get the players wanting to play for him.....we should have the talent to stay up on that basis alone.
Alex Ferguson's son may not be a bad option, believe it or not.
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Bring back Tommy Docherty, just to the end of the season.
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where do we go from here???its so depressing.......relegations a certainty,
Well, that's the issue obviously.
If we keep Houllier until the middle of the month and under a performance threat such as West Ham have imposed it will mean we have lost the Window.
Give the dreaded Chairman's vote of confidence and if it continues to slide we may also be too late to replace him or turn it around.
Promise him the season and funds and we will be stuck with HIS players if we go down. Probably not the type of player suited to the Championship which is a lot about blood and thunder not ticky tacky.
Sorry but I would be holding crisis meetings with players and Houllier. Not take any threats from the overpaid, overweight tarts. Discover the malcontents and sell them on. Now. However, if the issues from the playing staff are real, widespread and mature in content. I would let Houllier go. NOW.
A compromise might be to get rid of McAllister who has a poor reputation and CV. In fact I think he is the problem.
The players, given some of the comments might react to that. It is at least decisive. Do it now.
Randy must get to the bottom of this situation if he is not already doing so.
Chris Hughton, (spelling? sorry) ex Newcastle might be a good replacement as manager with Houllier moving upstairs where his grand schemes of Barca football can be implemented by a proper 'man manager'.
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Alex Ferguson's son may not be a bad option, believe it or not.
Serious?
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What has happened in the past when disaster loomed the fans would be appeased by the signing of a big name goal scorer with his best years behind him. So we got Frankie Broome, Trevor Ford, Jackie Sewell and Dave Walsh. January will see the departure of Ireland, Beye, Carew and Dunne (sold or loaned) and the lollipop tossed to the fans will be Robbie Keane
Trevor Ford scored 60 goals for Villa in 120 appearances before we sold him to Sunderland for a British record fee. Frank Broome 78 in 136 and we were his first pro club. Jackie Sewell helped us win the Cup. If we signed Keane and he scored 1 in 2 I think I'd be quite pleased and more than appeased.
Unless I've missed dome deep with and wisdom in your post....I'm confused...
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Or, and this has been overlooked in the rush of knees being jerked, would join a club who sack a manager after three months.
Is the correct answer. I've heard Holloway mentioned. Is he this months flavour?
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where do we go from here???its so depressing.......relegations a certainty,
I'll tell you exactly where you can go. To Betfair where you can have £100 on Villa to be relegated at current odds of 4.4/1.
A certainty at those odds, you'd be mad not to.
This forum could become the richest on the web, which should take the edge of the current mood of suicide-watch.
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Owen Coyle is da man.
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I think we're all missing the obvious. We have dozens of experts on this forum who try to show us every week what a piece of piss managing a football club is, we just hold a raffle and let one of them do the job.
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the return of Sir Brian
....now theres a idea.
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relegations a certainty,
Reading the posts on this thred you get the impression that we have been hopelessly stuck in the relegation zone for months now.
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Alright then. Who would you have appointed at the time?
well for starters i may have gone after people in a job with a proven record. oh and a bit quicker as well so we had a window to operate in...
Houllier was in a job and had a proven record.
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relegations a certainty,
Reading the posts on this thred you get the impression that we have been hopelessly stuck in the relegation zone for months now.
Nope, we just will be. If we stick with the current manager.
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its a good point about the best man you can. not the best man available. Signing Houllier was the equivalent of signing Pires... an over the hill waste of space.
I full expect randy to guide us to full mediocrity again after a season where are arse scrapes relegation..
Alright then. Who would you have appointed at the time?
well for starters i may have gone after people in a job with a proven record. oh and a bit quicker as well so we had a window to operate in...
Houllier was in a job and had a proven record.
Houllier didn't really have a job he was behind a desk pushing paper.
The French haven't even appointed a successor yet so it was hardly vital work.
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The problem however in my eyes is players not doing the basic things they have the ability to do.
Precisely, and before Houllier goes through the club like a dose of salts, restructures it, reorganises the scouting system, clears the deadwood, gets us playing attractive football, brings a five-year plan or a 10-year vision to pass, he needs to get the players he has to do the very basics. That's his job and he's paid very well to do it. I'll happily let him get on with the rest when we're comfortably mid table but we are now a shambolic jelly of a team.
Basics for players? For some of them, that now means turning up on an afternoon; for the rest it's to care enough to compete and for Houllier, the very least we expect is for him to be putting on the pitch the semblance of an organised and motivated team. He's not doing that and his body language suggests he is struggling and out of his depth. I'm not a doom monger and I always look for positives after defeats and not knee-jerk solutions but you have to be an extreme optimist bordering on delusional not to smell the failure around the club at the moment and it's even harder to identify characters on and off the pitch to turn it around. I'd love us to beat Chelsea. And even if we lose 4-0, I wouldnn't want Houllier sacked on Monday, but if results - and too many performances - remain as they have been since he arrived, we are in extreme danger of going down. I see far more fight in those teams around us and below us. I'd say his postion, if we fail to pick up points against Sunderland and our nearest and dearest rivals will be untenable.
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The players are letting the fans down not so much the manager. Players who pick up their wages should be professional, and do their job. You cannot kiss the badge one day and ignore it the next, because you disagree with something. They should keep their petty opinions to themselves because their letting us and the club down. Not the manager.
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Hiddink before he goes back to Chelsea. One can dream. God there's shit all available right now isn't there? We're never gonna pay out to get a working manager.
What's that once promising Leeds manager up to these days? You know, the Irish guy, used to play for Arsenal?
Allardyce I'd half consider, but I'd only want him for the season, to kick a few arses, get a gameplan of somesort, and pull us clear of the mire. Long term it would be horrifically dull to watch us and we'd never approach the top 6. But, though nothing surprises in football, we're hardly gonna go hiring an established name only to replace him with better in the summer. Sadly.
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I'll do it. I'm cheap and have a successful track record at U-11 level.
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I see far more fight in those teams around us and below us.
This is the most worrying aspect of the situation we're in. Compare our effort against Citeh with that of Blues v Man U and Wolves at Liverpool.
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Obviously the players need to take the lions share of flak, well, certain senior players. However, why did they bust a gut for one guy, and appear to be half cocked for Houllier?
I'm all for giving time. I happily gave O Neill the benefit of doubt when he went on that winless run in his first season. It was never for the lack of effort, just a horrific dearth in quality, even more so than now. But he WAS the right appointment. Almost to a man we welcomed it, and it gives him the benefit of some slack.
Trouble for Houllier is, most of us were thoroughly underwhelmed at his appointment. Clearly it's not a match. Would you ever have thought of Gerard Houllier as a Villa kind of manager? I wouldn't, and don't.
I'm being pessimistic and negative, but I really don't envision him turning this around. He was rapidly declining at Liverpool before going to a fairly easy job at Lyon where everything was set in place and they were winning left, right and centre. After that he'd pretty much retired.
I don't genuinely believe we'll go down. We're half way through on 20 points. Our second half we'll see us pick up more, so we'll probably survive with getting over 40 points. Finishing 17th would be just bloody rubbish though. I'd still like us to really give a good push for the top 8. It's not unreasonable. Under Houllier it probably is. But if we could have a season like 97-98 when we were looking fucked, until we changed manager, and we pulled off a pretty impressive finish by the end of the season.
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I'll do it. I'm cheap and have a successful track record at U-11 level.
You've got my vote. Any chance of prising Carew away from Stringfellows and somehow inspiring him to put in some modicum of effort and come in and score a few goals. He's the only forward on our books, right now, who can make something out of nothing.
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I think we're all missing the obvious. We have dozens of experts on this forum who try to show us every week what a piece of piss managing a football club is, we just hold a raffle and let one of them do the job.
That's what the board did and now we have 'Coopers Injury' making a mess of things. Funny how he no longer posts now Houllier is the boss, bet we sign Beckford in January and start running on to the pitch to some monstrosity from Ufucking2.
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Looking at the initial basis for this thread, it looks like a smoke screen to cover the shit situation we are in.
Mac, are you saying that GH is the best option for us?
His record since taking over is piss poor in anyones book. We can clutch the injury straw all we like it won't help if we go down
What you seem to be saying is this...
Be happy with who we have because we could have anyone of these instead! arent we lucky!
Whether GH is a fantastic manager is not the point, the point is he is not a fantastic manager at the Villa!
I feel like I am watching a potential train wreck in slow motion, we need to change the direction of the train before it is too late.
[This is where I make myself unpopular]
I'm not in the Randy is god camp, he has done some good things since he came in but then look who we are comparing him to!
Now is the time for him to lead the club, and if he gets us out of this mess and shows some leadership during this dark time then my respect for him will grow.
Are we in a mess: Yes
Can we get out of it: I hope so
Is GH the best man for the Villa: No
Should we replace him now: Yes
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If results don't change then it will only be a matter of time, what i am worried about is the other teams around us are picking up points i think we should see were we are after the Small Heath game. But what i don't want is us to get sucked into the relegation battle i wan't us to push on in 2011.
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In my earlier small hours post I was wrong about Frankie Broome . I was avery small boy when I saw him play and I have no reference books to use when writing on here. However I could have added Derek Dougan and Bruce Rioch to my list. Bruce would be added reluctantly because we got his brother Neil as part of the deal and he has been a magnificent Villa servant behind the scenes.
The numbers of goals scored by Trevor Ford or Jackie Sewell or Tommy Thompson or Billy Myerscough or Derek Dougan do not tell the story of a Villa constantly haunted by the spectre of relegation. In the early years of my following Villa through the 40s and 50s I don't think I ever saw us out of the bottom third of the table for more than a week or two at a time. I shall now have a post directed at me by somebody with a reference library of all things Villa that actually we were fourth for a month under Joe Mercer with Deakin and Tindall both winning England caps and Harry Stubbings scoring twenty goals before Christmas. The yardstick we used to use to measure our survival chances against was Liverpool. If we can only stay above those clogging bastards and hold our own against Stoke City we can survive - sounds familiar?
The point of my post was to highlight the sense of deja vu which surrounds our situation. It was ever thus that the views of old men with long memories are dismissed by young men with short ones. And for what it is worth we paid a record fee for Trevor Ford when he was bought and Jackie Sewell did very little to win the cup the last time we won it. One man took that game by the scuff of the neck and won it for us and it was not Jackie Sewell.
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Look I'm ot of the opinion that we need to sack Houllier, whatever you lot think is up to you. If we do end up looking for a replacement though, what do you think about Simon Grayson? Ex-player, manager of the month in his 1st full year in charge at Blackpool and got them promotion to the Championship...doing well at Leeds, a good attitude towards positive football...
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Brian we are of the same era and your memories match my own, apart from winning the FA cup in all the years i followed Villa we were not a successful club. The biggest acheivement i remember was battling our way back out of the third division. I missed the Glory of Europe. This is precisely why we are not a big club, young kids these days want heroes and they want to be associated with success, Uniteds success bought them support and that support had children who also supported them. This is why for people of our age it is so disappointing, i had hopes that in my lifetime i would see an Aston Villa team become one of the top sides in the premiership not just for one year but for a decade and bring glory to the Midlands. For a short time we had a chance, a glimmer, but it has soon faded. I will support them forever but loyalty these days is success based.
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If Houllier was to go, the last thing you want to do is to appoint a manager with limited experience of big time football. That would be like placing your last chip on '0' in roulette.
The pressure on any new manager would be immense. For an inexperienced manager that hasn't handled intense media spotlight, supporters' immediate turnaround requirement etc. and then have to concentrate on reorganising a team, the gamble would be huge.
To get a manager that has qualities to take us firstly to safety and then later to top 4, you would have to go and buy a manager from another club as there are certainly none out of work at present. 6 to 12 months ago I would have said Jol, Rijkaard or even McLaren but it just shows how even in a short period of time perceptions can change. Or is it that modern day football doesn't allow people time to change things and rebuild and accept there will be setbacks along the way.
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i would like to see dr jo or billy mcneill back..... ;)
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Is Alan Buckley available ?
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;D
Is Alan Buckley available ?
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;DIs Alan Buckley available ?
I was actually hoping Gary Pendry or Terry Cooper still fancied a challenge
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Thank you for that Robbo, your views are much appreciated. Like you I missed a great deal of the glory years. There was a brief window of opportunity to go on and stamp our authority on football at the highest level but Doug Ellis wanted to go into cruise control and maximize the benefits of the then recent past and the great team crumbled to dust.
Over the years I have followed them I would estimate five percent of the time we have been a great side twenty five percent of that time we have been moderate but good on our day and seventy percent of the time we have been rubbish.
Based on what I have seen with my own eyes, in the flesh, not on television or read about in the Daily Mirror I truly believe that the appointment of Gerard Houllier has ushered in another rubbish phase.
If I could do one thing and one thing only to try to deflect what I dread is going to happen I would like to get everybody who makes top level decisions at Villa Park and the coaching staff and the players in one room together and with a mutually respected figure to keep order - say GT for example - have it all out once and for all so that the new year can be a new start for everybody. It ain't going to happen. It's Gunfight At The OK Corral. Wyatt Earp, Virgil Earp and Doc Holliday versus the Clancey gang. Last man standing gets to say we we will win promotion in our first year.
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Thank you for that Robbo, your views are much appreciated. Like you I missed a great deal of the glory years. There was a brief window of opportunity to go on and stamp our authority on football at the highest level but Doug Ellis wanted to go into cruise control and maximize the benefits of the then recent past and the great team crumbled to dust.
Over the years I have followed them I would estimate five percent of the time we have been a great side twenty five percent of that time we have been moderate but good on our day and seventy percent of the time we have been rubbish.
Based on what I have seen with my own eyes, in the flesh, not on television or read about in the Daily Mirror I truly believe that the appointment of Gerard Houllier has ushered in another rubbish phase.
If I could do one thing and one thing only to try to deflect what I dread is going to happen I would like to get everybody who makes top level decisions at Villa Park and the coaching staff and the players in one room together and with a mutually respected figure to keep order - say GT for example - have it all out once and for all so that the new year can be a new start for everybody. It ain't going to happen. It's Gunfight At The OK Corral. Wyatt Earp, Virgil Earp and Doc Holliday versus the Clancey gang. Last man standing gets to say we we will win promotion in our first year.
Doug's biggest crime(IMO!) was the appointment of Graham Turner who pissed off the first team squad with his winning personality then shipped out the "bad eggs" who happened to be the majority of players who had won us the League & EC. An act that took us a decade to recover from. Deja vu.
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I seem to recall that last Summer there were plenty in the anti-MON brigade going on about getting shot of MON. Apparently, they'd be loads of big name applicants just desperate to manage Aston Villa, you'll see they said, they'll be queing up.
Turned out that the best we could come up with was a hugely uninspriring shortlist of Houllier, Curbishley, Bradley etc.
This anti- MON brigade: I seem to recall two, possibly three posters at most actively wanting him out. Many more (like me) were critical of various aspects of his management but wanted him to be given at least another year to deliver. Quite a few others believed he could practically do no wrong.
In my lifetime he was possibly one of the most popular managers we've had, more popular even than the likes of Sir Brian and BFR who delivered far more than he did.
Does 2/3 people constitute a brigade, a major movement against the bloke? I dunno. Or are we including anyone who was at any time critical of the bloke during his tenure here? In the law of absolutes I guess if you question you must be anti. If you're not with us, you're against us and so on.
On your final point, I guess if he had done such a fantastic job and left the club in such rude health it could be argued there would have been plenty of top managers willing to walk out on their clubs too on the eve of the season to land such a coveted role. Are you saying that his time here didn't improve the status of the club?
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I seem to recall that last Summer there were plenty in the anti-MON brigade going on about getting shot of MON. Apparently, they'd be loads of big name applicants just desperate to manage Aston Villa, you'll see they said, they'll be queing up.
Turned out that the best we could come up with was a hugely uninspriring shortlist of Houllier, Curbishley, Bradley etc.
This anti- MON brigade: I seem to recall two, possibly three posters at most actively wanting him out. Many more (like me) were critical of various aspects of his management but wanted him to be given at least another year to deliver. Quite a few others believed he could practically do no wrong.
In my lifetime he was possibly one of the most popular managers we've had, more popular even than the likes of Sir Brian and BFR who delivered far more than he did.
Does 2/3 people constitute a brigade, a major movement against the bloke? I dunno. Or are we including anyone who was at any time critical of the bloke during his tenure here? In the law of absolutes I guess if you question you must be anti. If you're not with us, you're against us and so on.
On your final point, I guess if he had done such a fantastic job and left the club in such rude health it could be argued there would have been plenty of top managers willing to walk out on their clubs too on the eve of the season to land such a coveted role. Are you saying that his time here didn't improve the status of the club?
IIRC (& I stand to be corrected) there was a poll 60/40 in favour of MON staying I don't think it was a MON in/out POll more of a vote of confidence I'll see if I can find it & post a link.
Incidently I am quite surprised at the support for GH I've yet to speak with a Villa fan who wants him to stay & I've spoken to quite a few.
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I'll do it. I'm cheap and have a successful track record at U-11 level.
Do you need a glowering, scary Scottish assistant?
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loyalty these days is success based.
The loyalty shown by the contributors to this site is hardly success based Robbo.
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;DIs Alan Buckley available ?
I was actually hoping Gary Pendry or Terry Cooper still fancied a challenge
Good point, and how old is Ricky Otto nowadays?
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loyalty these days is success based.
The loyalty shown by the contributors to this site is hardly success based Robbo.
But we are the glued on support that all clubs have i am talking about mainly kids who follow a team because of their successs and reputation.
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I wanted MON gone at the end of last season, I thought that he had taken us as far as he could, If he had of gone then we would have had plenty of managers to choose from.Having thought a lot about it.
I now believe that we have to stick with GH because the alternative would just be panic, the disgruntled players would have control over the management. Now if there is not a significant change in results and performance through January then Randy may have to hit the panic button.
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Randy gambled his £250 mil on MON
Don't understand. Talisker has been taken - but £250 mil?
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I'll do it. I'm cheap and have a successful track record at U-11 level.
I'm phoning the police now.
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I'll do it. I'm cheap and have a successful track record at U-11 level.
I'd like to have a go but I remember my last attempt when some of our supporters standing on the opposite side of the pitch started chanting "Cox out, Cox out" when we were losing. The problem was, they didn't realise other people thought they were wanting people to drop their trousers and get their tackle out!
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I suggest a sacrificial sacking of Gerard on Good Friday, when if current form s anything to go by we will be teetering on the brink of the drop zone. Then on Easter Monday the stone will roll back from behind the Holte....arise Big Ron, sunglasses firmly affixed 8), with Andy Gray as his returning number 2 (gven that all the players are transfixed with Sky they'll know who he is)
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Thank you for that Robbo, your views are much appreciated. Like you I missed a great deal of the glory years. There was a brief window of opportunity to go on and stamp our authority on football at the highest level but Doug Ellis wanted to go into cruise control and maximize the benefits of the then recent past and the great team crumbled to dust.
Over the years I have followed them I would estimate five percent of the time we have been a great side twenty five percent of that time we have been moderate but good on our day and seventy percent of the time we have been rubbish.
Based on what I have seen with my own eyes, in the flesh, not on television or read about in the Daily Mirror I truly believe that the appointment of Gerard Houllier has ushered in another rubbish phase.
If I could do one thing and one thing only to try to deflect what I dread is going to happen I would like to get everybody who makes top level decisions at Villa Park and the coaching staff and the players in one room together and with a mutually respected figure to keep order - say GT for example - have it all out once and for all so that the new year can be a new start for everybody. It ain't going to happen. It's Gunfight At The OK Corral. Wyatt Earp, Virgil Earp and Doc Holliday versus the Clancey gang. Last man standing gets to say we we will win promotion in our first year.
Our next door neighbour, Geoff Garrett, was a long time Villa fan. After each game he would drop in the match programme: maybe he was trying to recruit us (we weren't from Brum) - and it worked.
He told me about Trevor Ford and Tony Hately and Derek Dougan and lamented the fact that the Villa never ever seemed to be able to hold on to a goal-scorer. He also told me across the hedge about the Villa player that had batted the ball into the net with his hand - I refused to beleive him (this was before that bloody Maradona sod turned up).
One day he told me that he had had enough with the Villa and wouldn't be going again.
Madness I thought.
But there comes a point I think when the scales fall away and you look at a thing and you call a thing for what it is. And if it's rubbish you say it's rubbish and if it's shite you say it's shite.
Maybe you just need to be old.
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I blame Brigada1874. If there's one thing that could have averted this crisis it's a flamboyant, high energy fan dance-off.
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I forgot the legend which is Tony Hateley from my list of opiate strikers given to the fans. He was useless at everything except being bought and sold. We bought him from Chelsea I think (don't forget i work without a safety net) for £100K and sold him having done nothing for us for the same sum to Liverpool.
The most memorable thing about Tony Hately was his ugliness. I was with a bunch of Villa fans roaming around London prior to a Chelsea or Fulham game. Anyroadup we were all walking across one of the bridges over he Thames when this really ugly bird with billiard table legs, jet black flattened hair and a face like a half cooked nan bread walked past on the other side of the bridge. As one our lads burst into "One Tony Hateley".
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I seem to recall that last Summer there were plenty in the anti-MON brigade going on about getting shot of MON. Apparently, they'd be loads of big name applicants just desperate to manage Aston Villa, you'll see they said, they'll be queing up.
Turned out that the best we could come up with was a hugely uninspriring shortlist of Houllier, Curbishley, Bradley etc.
This anti- MON brigade: I seem to recall two, possibly three posters at most actively wanting him out. Many more (like me) were critical of various aspects of his management but wanted him to be given at least another year to deliver. Quite a few others believed he could practically do no wrong.
In my lifetime he was possibly one of the most popular managers we've had, more popular even than the likes of Sir Brian and BFR who delivered far more than he did.
Does 2/3 people constitute a brigade, a major movement against the bloke? I dunno. Or are we including anyone who was at any time critical of the bloke during his tenure here? In the law of absolutes I guess if you question you must be anti. If you're not with us, you're against us and so on.
On your final point, I guess if he had done such a fantastic job and left the club in such rude health it could be argued there would have been plenty of top managers willing to walk out on their clubs too on the eve of the season to land such a coveted role. Are you saying that his time here didn't improve the status of the club?
Well I actually disagree with you KG, it was a lot more than just 2 or 3 that wanted him gone. As has been quoted a 60/40 poll on whether he should get another year suggests that.
Either way, one of the reasons provided was the inferrence that we could get somebody better - that we would have options, which turned out to be totally false.
I'd agree that MON absolutley improved the club from where he found it, as has RAL, which makes it all the more galling that we pissed about interviewing the likes of Alan fecking Curbishley and a bloke out of Premier League football for 5 years and whilst working for a FA whose team were described as a national disgrace by their own PM.
And the fact that we lost him so late shouldn't massively of mattered, plenty of teams lose Managers mid - season, that doesn't mean they take a left field punt like we did for lack of decent applicants.
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bewildered why GH is getting the blame for France in the WC
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If it's true GH has handed out the olive branch to Dunne, ireland & Carew, then fair play
Takes a big man to do that
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bewildered why GH is getting the blame for France in the WC
He's not getting the blame but you cannot get away from the fact the the FFA, where Houllier had a senior role, had about as shambolic a World Cup preperation and campaign as it's possible to have. Have we imported that 'Culture' here.
Maybe i'm being unfair, but considering our disorganised performances of late, the injury list (maybe it's luck or maybe it's poor training procedure) and GH's knack of alienating players it's hardly surprising when this link gets pointed out.
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Let's get Holloway.
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I think we're all missing the obvious. We have dozens of experts on this forum who try to show us every week what a piece of piss managing a football club is, we just hold a raffle and let one of them do the job.
I'd give it Blackcountry Villa, he'd bring some 'passion' to it.
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I forgot the legend which is Tony Hateley from my list of opiate strikers given to the fans. He was useless at everything except being bought and sold. We bought him from Chelsea I think (don't forget i work without a safety net) for £100K and sold him having done nothing for us for the same sum to Liverpool.
The most memorable thing about Tony Hately was his ugliness. I was with a bunch of Villa fans roaming around London prior to a Chelsea or Fulham game. Anyroadup we were all walking across one of the bridges over he Thames when this really ugly bird with billiard table legs, jet black flattened hair and a face like a half cooked nan bread walked past on the other side of the bridge. As one our lads burst into "One Tony Hateley".
"..face like a half cooked naan". Cheers Brian, I'm using that one :)
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bewildered why GH is getting the blame for France in the WC
Me too. Especially as it was David Ginola that killed French football.
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Especially as Houllier was part of the famous France team set up that won the world cup
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A week is a very long time in football
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True. Wonder what we will be saying in seven days?
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I'm still sticking by my prediction that our injury problems will come to benefit us in the latter part of the season. Didn't do us much good at city but petrov and NRC were rusty. I'm not sure it will be GED in charge though. I'd have thought mclaren and jol were the most likely candidates.
We'll still get tonked tomorrow though
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I think we're all missing the obvious. We have dozens of experts on this forum who try to show us every week what a piece of piss managing a football club is, we just hold a raffle and let one of them do the job.
Agreed, please close down the internet post haste.
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I forgot the legend which is Tony Hateley from my list of opiate strikers given to the fans. He was useless at everything except being bought and sold. We bought him from Chelsea I think (don't forget i work without a safety net) for £100K and sold him having done nothing for us for the same sum to Liverpool.
The most memorable thing about Tony Hately was his ugliness. I was with a bunch of Villa fans roaming around London prior to a Chelsea or Fulham game. Anyroadup we were all walking across one of the bridges over he Thames when this really ugly bird with billiard table legs, jet black flattened hair and a face like a half cooked nan bread walked past on the other side of the bridge. As one our lads burst into "One Tony Hateley".
Sorry Brian, but I must stick up for Tony Hateley. You are right that he wasn't the most handsome player we ever had, but boy, could he head a ball. This was partly due to having a completely flat forehead reminiscent of Karloff's Frankenstien's monster.
We bought him from Notts County and in the 3 years he was at Villa Park, (I see from Wiki) he scored 68 goals in 127 games. Not exactly "done nothing" at least by today's standards. Most were scored with his head as his feet were pretty much just for standing on, or tripping over when in front of goal. Those he did score with his feet were usually put on a plate by Phil Woosnam.
His career nosedived after we sold him to Chelsea, and he was shunted around half a dozen clubs, finishing up at Oldham Athletic.
I remember seeing him play for Small Heath at the Sty, where he was jeered off the pitch by his own fans after being sent off for throwing a handfull of mud at the referee. It was a sad end to for one of my boyhood heroes. Still the best header of the ball I've ever seen.
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I think Houllier will get us relegated, so compared to that some of the options are more attractive than might otherwise be the case.
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Everyone was baying for blood after the Ci££eh debacle, the mood has softened during the week
Let's see what tomorrow brings, If the players battle hard for one another and the club that will be a big plus regardless of the result
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Saddest for Tony Hately was when we went to Notts County when he was playing for them. Those of us old enough to have been there will remember that we 'took' seventy percent of the ground.
Right in front of us his feet got caught up in some bog roll/streamer thrown by the Villa.
Not a heart beat: "SHIT -SHIT -SHIT!
He looked up and I could have cried for him.