Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ROBBO on December 26, 2010, 08:40:41 PM
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As there is more animosity toward Houllier than anticipated after such a short period i thought we may get some sort of concensus out of a poll.
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I'd like to see what he can do with his own players and a first team to pick from.
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Getting his own players is one thing, my major worry is that we look dis-organised and tactically no wiser than under O Neill. The only difference being, O Neill get the very best out of his favourite 13-14 players, and some of which are in fact very, very average.
My second worry is that the management team seems to have alienated some of the dressing room. Fair enough, O Neill did this, but not the players who actually played and got us 3, 6th placed finishes. Granted the little fox hunt buggered off and left us up shit creek, which hasn't help, but we look totally toothless, and defensively brittle under Houllier. We're also poor on the counter attack in comparison to O Neill's era. Losing our best player over the summer didn't help matters either to be fair, and I guess contributed to O Neill's exit, as I'm sure being lumbered with Stephen Ireland in the deal also played its part.
But Houllier has to do something. We'll struggle to attract a decent name player with our predicament. It'll be down to his scouting ability, to find unearthed gems. Trouble is, we do also need some experienced class to help pull us out the mire. Signing more kids will get us only so far.
We're in trouble though. A change of manager for any of the bottom 3 could freshen them up, and we might get sucked down into the mire even more. I'm expecting 0 points from the next two in all honesty.
I think we need a man manager, someone who's good at getting the best out of limited ability and who's shrewd in the transfer market. Big Sam would do me. Granted fuck ugly football, but lets be honest, the Villa has never been the fanciest footballing side around. I'd take hoofing if it meant points on the board. I'd trust Allardyce to pull us clear and give some players the kick up the arse they need. A lot of our seniors just are not giving their all for Houllier. I don't think he's at all inspiring to be frank. McCallister hasn't paid off either. Give Fat Sam 18 months to stabilise the club, then get someone better in.
I'm all for giving time, but I think it'd be wasted and potentially end in disaster for us.
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The whole thing is a shambles.
Rather like SGT Mk2, Houllier seems like a man who reckoned he had unfinished business in the English top flight, only to find out that, for whatever reason, he can't now hack it.
If for no other reason that I can't think of another Villa manager who has made as a poor a start and then come good, let's get rid. I wouldn't be adverse though to moving him upstairs.
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
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At least wait til after the next two games before this poll. We all knew it was going to get worse before it improved.
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The head says give him time but my instincts tell me this is only going to go one way and we might save a lot of pain in the long run if we act decisively now.
If it was made to look like a decision GH independently came to, that he felt he just wasn't up to it, it could be less damaging to our image. Still damaging that we opted for him in the first place. But at least we wouldn't look like Newcastle, sacking managers at the drop of a hat.
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Toronto Villa's Option 2 for me.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
Your post started badly and went downhill from there.
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Okay. So we get rid now.
Question one. Who's available to replace him?
Question two. Would they come to a club who sacks their manager before he's been able to pick a first choice team or buy a single player?
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
Your post started badly and went downhill from there.
Please allow me then to throw in Phil Brown and Paul Jewell
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Come back Deadly!
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
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I wouldn't sack him and especially not for Allardyce, I could not face him managing Villa.
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I wouldn't sack him and especially not for Allardyce, I could not face him managing Villa.
That's like cutting off your penis to spite your missus.
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I think there is much good he can do for us but he looked stressed after today's game and um not not sure he is handling the pressure well- I certainly would not sack him but would be in favour of him as director of football overseeing the academy and scouting and a coach like martin jol taking over the 1st team.
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
So when do you ask them to play a new way? He needs to find out who can and can't play the way he wants to play...he's finding out pretty quickly!! I wouldn't settle for 6th place and 2 wembley visits. We lost both visits and crashed out of Europe early. I would rather sacrifice that for the greater good, or even a chance of it.
Sacking him is just madness. Give the guy a chance. Let him clear out what he can, work with kids, get in what he can and then maybe judge him.
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I think there is much good he can do for us but he looked stressed after today's game and um not not sure he is handling the pressure well- I certainly would not sack him but would be in favour of him as director of football overseeing the academy and scouting and a coach like martin jol taking over the 1st team.
But again, no top manager would want to work with someone else as DoF/general manager.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
Your post started badly and went downhill from there.
Please allow me then to throw in Phil Brown and Paul Jewell
When in a hole stop digging.
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
Depends if you want that long term. 6th until another club gets a rich owner then 7th, because thats all the likes of allardyce and MON get you. An efficient workmanlike team with probably the sniff of a league cup win if you meet a good team on a bad day. I'm not sure what the owners plans are to be honest, and whether they've been downsized recently but if we're destined to be forever best of the rest at least i hope we'll do it playing attractive football. Do we really want to give allardyce 20m knowing its just some tactical cul-de-sac? where the next manager will have to play similar to get anything out of the players he's bought, just like we know allardyce would restore the status quo and have us playing a version of MON'S game plan? No doubt we'd be up to 8th by May and barring the annual big sam capitulation to Man U we'd be safe but dull for the foreseable future.
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I'm all for giving Houllier more time, however if we were to replace him, Owen Coyle might get miffed at Bolton's lack of backing.
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Rest of the season for me, as I don't think it fair to judge someone on a single January window. In fact he should have longer.
Mind you, I confess to some nervousness around the shapeless mess our Plan A is. Unless it's a very cunning one that I'm too Baldrick to spot.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
Your post started badly and went downhill from there.
Please allow me then to throw in Phil Brown and Paul Jewell
When in a hole stop digging.
ok, ok....Paul Ince then
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
So when do you ask them to play a new way? He needs to find out who can and can't play the way he wants to play...he's finding out pretty quickly!! I wouldn't settle for 6th place and 2 wembley visits. We lost both visits and crashed out of Europe early. I would rather sacrifice that for the greater good, or even a chance of it.
Sacking him is just madness. Give the guy a chance. Let him clear out what he can, work with kids, get in what he can and then maybe judge him.
I am not advocating the sack rather I am questioning the timing of the changes. I would suggest that it would have been best to get some new players around him who can play his way and then start implementing the changes. Until then stick with what we were good at. We seem to have thrown the baby out with the dishwater here. Evolution not revolution I think they call it. Certainly 6th etc looks better than a relegation fight to me. I get your point about the longer term good but it’s a big gamble that currently is not paying off. I am not a supporter of the view that a year in the Championship wouldn’t do us any harm as has been posted on this site before.
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you'd bet on allardyce keeping us up given our squad. more so than gerrard anyway. I'm holding me nerve though just because i don't want to go back to hoof! ball. Come february i reserve the right to suddenly abandon all my principals and embrace the hoof though
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Depends if you want that long term. 6th until another club gets a rich owner then 7th, because thats all the likes of allardyce and MON get you. An efficient workmanlike team with probably the sniff of a league cup win if you meet a good team on a bad day. I'm not sure what the owners plans are to be honest, and whether they've been downsized recently but if we're destined to be forever best of the rest at least i hope we'll do it playing attractive football. Do we really want to give allardyce 20m knowing its just some tactical cul-de-sac? where the next manager will have to play similar to get anything out of the players he's bought, just like we know allardyce would restore the status quo and have us playing a version of MON'S game plan? No doubt we'd be up to 8th by May and barring the annual big sam capitulation to Man U we'd be safe but dull for the foreseable future.
[/quotyou'd bet on allardyce keeping us up given our squad. more so than gerrard anyway. I'm holding me nerve though just because i don't want to go back to hoof! ball. Come february i reserve the right to suddenly abandon all my principals and embrace the hoof though
I like it when you don't use upper case.
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you'd bet on allardyce keeping us up given our squad. more so than gerrard anyway. I'm holding me nerve though just because i don't want to go back to hoof! ball. Come february i reserve the right to suddenly abandon all my principals and embrace the hoof though
It's a question of short term satisfaction versus something the great majority of us actually want in terms of a long term vision for the club. I'll take the shirt term struggle and long term vision over appointing any one of the complete muppets I mentioned in my previous posts.
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I'm confused here, have forgot what it was like under Oneil?
People say he got the best out of his players, we played 3 CB's, dross football and won fuck all.
He held back all of our academy players .
Houllier needs time, we were today done again by individual errors('first goal).
We missed Ash really bad and were shocking when we never had the ball.
This is a transitional season, we canno hide from this.
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Give him more time. However, this time should be finite and affected by the depth of the hole he has began to dig.
I'm glad some of our fans are not running the club (note I said some, not all) as guys like Allardyce or Jol I'm not sure are the men to take us where we need to be (look at their records and compare with Ged). I also recall a few suggesting we employ Grant or Hughes upon MoN's departure and look at how they are doing this season with fewer injuries and having had transfer windows to work in. I'm not yet sure if Ged will be any better. I will give him the rest of the season to see what happens (or if it gets much worse earlier) before taking the nuclear option and bringing in an Allardyce to keep us up. As I said if Randy wants to reign in spending to a considerably smaller level and is content for us to bob along in midtable then I think he should bring in Big Sam and we should suck Big Sam's football up. However, I still think he nurtures a desire to build to a higher level and is willing to spend and in that kind of context I think Ged has more of a record (cf Liverpool and Lyon) in doing that. If we spend in January and allow Ged the chance to spend on his own players of his own liking he will keep us up and quite possibly start to build something.
I did say some time ago that things would get better before they get worse. Well despite the West Brom victory this has been largely been borne out and this will continue. However, I anticipate that towards February things will look up but not down.
This post may have come out a little more positivist than I truly feel. I do have reservations and I'm pissed off about tonight's result so in truth I'm wavering a little bit more than I've made out.
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I am sorry I never wanted him in the first place. But, if anyone seriously thinks he is going to get the sack after 3 months with all the trails of how much he bought into the ethos of the club is deluded. He is here until at least the end of this season as people can blame the destabilisation of the club squarely at MO'N's departure and the timing of it. I don't think Houllier will move us forward. But what annoys me as much as anything are the players - tosspots who get paid upwards of £40k per week and pretend they need someone to tell them how to pass a ball or put the thing into the net. I fear for us now. Earlier in the season I said we would not be in a relegation battle when our regulars got back, however, when you consider that there 7 first team regulars that finished the game tonight and we looked clueless and had the piss took out of us against 10 men, it is indeed worrying.
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I would have to agree and sums up what I feel.
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I find the talk of Allardyce even more depressing than today's result.
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I find the talk of Allardyce even more depressing than today's result.
So do I but I think we have to come to terms with that's all this Club can afford under Learner. Hopefully that would mean we stay in the Premier League - I don't honestly believe that we will do under GH although we'll have to give him January.
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yep. a little bit of me would die if big sam took over.
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yep. a little bit of me would die if big sam took over.
Talk dirty to me, Gnasher.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
It would certainly surprise him - I've been told the French were shocked we burnt Joan of Arc considering we boiled most things we ate.
I say give him until the end of the season, on the basis that there's nobody better available and he deserves at least one transfer window to bring his own men in - and ship out the crap.
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I find the talk of Allardyce even more depressing than today's result.
So do I but I think we have to come to terms with that's all this Club can afford under Learner. Hopefully that would mean we stay in the Premier League - I don't honestly believe that we will do under GH although we'll have to give him January.
£120 million. Think about that figure numbnuts.
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Give Houllier time I think, the problems we see (which I think are being exaggerated to be honest) are not his sole fault. Yes we were beaten tonight, which I fully expected, but Spurs are a better team than us nowadays and have really classy players, which we simpy don't - a definite result of the MON era.
Houllier is trying to change a lot in a very short space of time, and has been battling with a ridiculous run of injuries, really poor senior players on megawages with attitudes, and an inexperienced squad of young players. Its going to take time, but I really think it will be worth it. We're not going to get relegated, and this is a season of transition.
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I would never want the mind numbing dross of O'Neill back and Allardyce would be more of the same.
I don't know what to make of GH though. I love the fact he wants to try and play proper football, and I can see what he is trying to do, but ultimately playing good football and losing is no good to anyone. He has inherited a squad who were good at playing a certain (limited) way, many of whom either can't or won't adapt or are injured. So he has turned to the kids and at the moment it isn't working. Perhaps he would have been better retaining some of the "O'neill" tactics until he'd had a chance to bring in some experienced players more in his image. Evolution not revolution as someone else put it.
It's also a concern that having started with a squad of only 22 he has apparently fallen out with Dunne, Beye, Ireland and possibly Carew, and sent Davies out on loan. Okay they've all been less than effective but it doesn't say much for his man management skills.
The main concern is that he just doesn't really come across as being bothered enough. But we need to give him a window at least to see what he can do. Anything less would be harsh indeed.
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Give Houllier time I think, the problems we see (which I think are being exaggerated to be honest) are not his sole fault. Yes we were beaten tonight, which I fully expected, but Spurs are a better team than us nowadays and have really classy players, which we simpy don't - a definite result of the MON era.
Houllier is trying to change a lot in a very short space of time, and has been battling with a ridiculous run of injuries, really poor senior players on megawages with attitudes, and an inexperienced squad of young players. Its going to take time, but I really think it will be worth it. We're not going to get relegated, and this is a season of transition.
Whilst hearing what you say, let me make a very stark statement. A year ago, we were running neck and neck with Spurs in the race of r 4th place, in fact, some pundits made us favourite. Tonight, against the same side, we looked like nothing more than a 'plucky' Championship side who had drawn them in the FA Cup third round - ie gave it our all but really never looked like winning in the slightest.
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I would sack GH tomorrow, get in a manager who will spend wisely and drive us up to 6th or 7th this season then take us into the top four next season. Any idea who that manager is? Nor me....
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I wouldn't sack him and especially not for Allardyce, I could not face him managing Villa.
Nor me. I'd rather do an Accrington Stanley than be managed by him.
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I know this should be about Houllier but would we be in this position if Randy had spent some Pounds when it mattered on getting or retaining certain players re:Milner. I voted to give GH a transfer window at least but after watching the loss to Spurs, I'm really worried. Who is in the market now that might fix our problems and at the very best, stay in the EPL?
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On Sky Soccer Saturday today (well Sunday) they said that Lerner had not spent a penny (on players) during the whole of 2010. ~Is that correct. Because if it is, he is culpable in part as well.
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Who is in the market now that might fix our problems and at the very best, stay in the EPL?
That makes most sense as a rhetorical question.
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I know this should be about Houllier but would we be in this position if Randy had spent some Pounds when it mattered on getting or retaining certain players re:Milner. I voted to give GH a transfer window at least but after watching the loss to Spurs, I'm really worried. Who is in the market now that might fix our problems and at the very best, stay in the EPL?
Randy has spent millions, MoN fucked it up so Randy had to balance the books. MoN couldn't hack it so fucked off and left us in the shit.
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Randy has spent millions, MoN fucked it up so Randy had to balance the books. MoN couldn't hack it so fucked off and left us in the shit.
That's a pretty good summing up. Now it looks like Houllier is going to finish the job of messing it up.
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I actually think Randy got himself a H&V log in, read one of the famous accounts threads and went “WTF???!!!??” when he realised Spurs had a bigger and better squad than us, but paid less in wages for it and decided that perhaps £12 million on McGeady wasn't a good idea.
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Where's the "give him this year and next" option? Ludicrously early to be writin him off, ludicrously early. This is a long-term project, we have to have patience.
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We are paying the price for making a panic appointment...if we panic again, it could get worse, depends on who we get. I would never have appointed him and would have got rid a few weeks ago, but now we are just too close to the transfer window to fire him now. It would be the same situation as September with the new manager having no time to buy. We just have to pray and hope that he doesn't take us down and then get a new manager in the summer.
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Everything is shit at the minute because we have a squad low on fitness, low on motivation and low on technical ability. I can't judge Houllier for the injury list we currently have, which is the worst I've ever known, and I can't judge him for the average footballers left for him by the previous manager, I can however judge him for not properly motivating the players, which is something he needs to rectify quickly.
This squad needs ripping up and re-building, let's at least give Houllier chance to do that before we sharpen the knives eh?
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We are paying the price for making a panic appointment...if we panic again, it could get worse, depends on who we get. I would never have appointed him and would have got rid a few weeks ago, but now we are just too close to the transfer window to fire him now. It would be the same situation as September with the new manager having no time to buy. We just have to pray and hope that he doesn't take us down and then get a new manager in the summer.
Panic appointment?! It took us well over a month to bring him in.
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I started the thread relatively early because of the over the top negative comments on the after match comments. Glad to see commonsense is restored, there was no longer term than the end of the season because i presumed if we were relegated GED wouldn't be with us anyway. I would think the manager is a worried man because of the lack of quality we have in the side. I take you back to when we were esconced in the top four was it seven points above Arsenal? and all we needed was one or two decent players in January to keep us in it. The rest is history, i want a manager who will have the confidence to look beyong british borders for good players, at the moment GH is that man, give him time and a little patience.
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yes, it took a month, but nothing was in place. Mon had gone and taken his staff, Lerner and his staff had never really experienced such a situation and had never recruited a manager. Good old Gerard was there to charm and calm the nerves...but for me it was still very much a panic appointment.
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Haven't read the thread but I said at the time of his appointment: give him the season and if he hasn't shown he's the man for the job, go and get David Moyes.
Although I certainly don't think todays the day for this thread, I thought we played really well.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
This makes me want to cry :(
Everytime an Allardyce team scores a goal a kitten dies. Its true and everything.
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Where's the "give him this year and next" option? Ludicrously early to be writin him off, ludicrously early. This is a long-term project, we have to have patience.
Thing is Monty is that we're in roughly the same position as four years ago, minus the optimism.
I agree that its too early for talk of sacking GH though, the team that he was left and the wages they're on is nothing short of criminal considering the amount spent.
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Who knows what is really going on in the dressing room? Something is amiss and I blame the coaching. Tactically we are all over the place when I actually think that due to the influx of a very talented group of youngsters we should be getting results with the squad we have.
GH should have time to create his own brand of football with his own choice of players but I would rid ourselves of McCallister immediately. I don't think that there would be complaints from the players.
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Where's the "give him this year and next" option? Ludicrously early to be writin him off, ludicrously early. This is a long-term project, we have to have patience.
Fair enough, is relegation part of the long term plan? Get rid of Young and the rest of the high earners and start from scratch? I think it's very admirable of Gabby by signing a new contract but if ever somebodies career needed a kickstart with a change of club it's his......
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Any manager who had come in at a time when GH did would still be in this position. We keep saying MON had hand picked these players to play HIS way then left with everyone one of HIS staff. Unless we were to have a MON clone how else is anyone can a manager get anything out of these players?
I'm not happy at all, and maybe if GH had came in at the start of summer and we were in this position I would be very worried.
It really is a case and see what happens between now and the summer.
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I've heard from a really reliable source that randy is in talks with Pep Guardiola. Apparently he's a massive fan of the villa and thinks Birmingham is just like Barcelona and the catalan language is just like that of the typical brummie....
... And then I woke up and had my breakfast. People can't judge GH on what's happened now. He need time. The whole season at the very least. Ppl have said on here that MON was good at getting the best out of mediocre players. Well maybe it's time to ship out those mediocre players and get ones in that can play proper
Football and move us forward. I don't want GH to be the man manager of MON. I want him to have the right squad to face the opposition and to tactically change the way we play if we need to. GH will give us that when he has shipped out the players that don't want to be here and when he's got his own set in. Sacking him now is insane. It will bring the club into more disarray, kiss good bye to ashley young and a few others. As well has any other half decent managers not wanting to touch us with a barge pole. We'll only be able to attract the likes of the mercenaries like Big Sam, sparky, curbs etc who are happy with mid table because it's safe, they pick up their pay check quite happily without really being tested. Because they know they're not good enough to push up higher.
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I understand the idea of letting him bring in his own players and the injury situation however i would like to see the back of him as i don't think he understands what the role of managing aston villa is. He constantly blames bad luck and seems to have tried to alienate as many people as possible. We seem to have no plan or tactics for a game and always look like conceding. The worst thing personally for me though is he doesn't seem to want to connect with the fans and the club. He is beginning to make DOL look like a PR genius and if he doesn't go soon will cause us damage that will take years to recover from
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Give him the season at least. It wont be pretty this season but itg going to take a transfer window or two to sort out the mess.
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The worrying aspect for me is that the current players aren't playing anywhere near there potential. Who's fault is that? The current players are good enough for at least mid-table but they look totally devoid of ideas, passion or ability!
Ultimately we have no choice but to give him till the end of the season but I confess that he certainly does not inspire me to believe he is the man for the job long term!
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What worries me about Houllier is how he's changed how he wants to play, in comparison to his beloved Liverpool days. I've spoken to kop fans who absolutely hated the way they played under him. They have a certain fondness for him because he got them a 2nd place finish and some trophies, but the football was awful.
He'd sit his team very deep, and defend resolutely, before hitting on the break. Quick, one touch passing football wasn't his game either. So quite why he's chosen this way for us I don't know. There was a fair amount of long ball football under Houllier for the reds too. Okay that deep lying counter game works well with the cutting edge players like Gerrard and Owen gave them. Heskey was always a good outlet to play off as well.
So why has he not gone this route with the Villa? We're so open at the back. It's frightening. We never look very dangerous on the counter either, despite having a team with plenty of pace.
Okay, we lack a top class midfielder, and a proper finisher, so maybe that's in his thinking. But still. What Houllier always prided himself on, a rock hard defence, and players busting a gut to strangle out and ruin matches, and nick wins, is totally missing.
The worst part? An old style Houllier, has players here far more suited, to what the new Houllier is currently trying to do. Could we look less effective up front? Not really. Could we look better at the back? Hell yes.
How much of a part did Phil Thompson play in their defensive resoluteness back then? Evidently quite a bit. What the frig is McCallister here for?
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I suggest the people who want to sack our manager after just 3 months and the first sign of problems in 4 1/2 years go and follow Man U, I am sure you will be more happy and content there.
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I don't want him to be sacked as I want him to clear out some players and bring in some hot players from France or other country. Then we will get better, if not our next manager will have a wonderful crop of players to work with :) Beside who can we appoint at the moment. Jol, Allayarce, Houghton, McGee (LOL)
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This is getting pathetic guys, your all over reacting, Lerner hasn't spent this year, because in the summer we spent weeks waiting for the Milner deal to happen, then Oneil left meaning we ha no manager to buy players.
People saying this is as good as it gets under Lerner is pathetic, let's wait till next month and see if Lerner will back the club.
People forget Houllier hasn't bought one player, Pires apart.
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IF GH has the stomach for the fight and the rebuilding i would back hiom 100%
i like the fact he's brave with selections and not predictable. i like the better passing and possesion game we are trying to play. i also like the way he's ruffled a few senior players feathers,
i think he believes in the youngsters we have, and i would like to see him keep faith in them even through the rocky times as they will learn and develop more,
i would stil rather see Delph, Bannan, Hogg, Albrighton, Clarke in our midfield than Sidwell, NRC and maybe even Petrov, but it means being brave and taking a lot of shit while you bring them through,
i dont think we will be in any danger of going down come the end of season, but time will tell on that one,
would still rather have Houllier than MON art the club, as i think he can take the club forward and build something quite good given a bit of time and backing
we do need a striker that can score some goals though, all are forwards have different attributes, but none of them have the attribute of actually scoring enough goals,
Houllier needs to address this if he can ASAP
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For the sake of continuity we need to give him the January transfer window.
I don't think we'll go down, but it won't be easy, and I am certainly not feeling confident in Houllier as our Manager for the long haul.
Watch this space.......
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I would give him until the end of the season at least we have got to see who he buy's in the january transfer window he as had no luck with injuries this season so i would give him time you can see he is playing proper football we will get there let's just have patience.
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I'm not usually a frettter, but it's apparent that Houllier's not the right man for the job, so I think it's time for the board to take immediate action. Get rid now, and get the right man for the job.
The right man is Owen Coyle. Ok so allegedly he's a Bolton Man. But if we offer the right money we will get him
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I'm not usually a frettter, but it's apparent that Houllier's not the right man for the job, so I think it's time for the board to take immediate action. Get rid now, and get the right man for the job.
The right man is Owen Coyle. Ok so allegedly he's a Bolton Man. But if we offer the right money we will get him
A real loyal manager there!! What a joke his results were terrible when he went to Bolton, now he has had time to settle and a full pre season they are playing well.
People need to realise if houllier is allowed to run Villa the way he wants, we have a manager who can attract young talented players the likes of Coyle etc couldn't!
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Replace him now with Alex McLeish.
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Lerner must be in a real dilemma, two in particular things to think about
He must be having a few doubts about GH and one must wonder if this will affect how much money he gives him to spend in January. If he thinks that we might have the wrong person at the helm, will he really give GH a big budget to spend in January?
Also, what about if he does give GH freedom to spend big and choose his players and then in March we are still three or four points from relegation. Do we then tell GH it's time to go?
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
You have changed your tune
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I just worry that the players do not believe in Houllier.
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If only we could turn back time and have lerner with his money again but without an idiot spending it. We're left a squad that cost a fortune to put together and yet a good 30m of it is too old or not good enough.
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I find the talk of Allardyce even more depressing than today's result.
So do I but I think we have to come to terms with that's all this Club can afford under Learner. Hopefully that would mean we stay in the Premier League - I don't honestly believe that we will do under GH although we'll have to give him January.
£120 million. Think about that figure numbnuts.
What on earth are you talking about? Is your calculater bust?
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I'm not usually a frettter, but it's apparent that Houllier's not the right man for the job, so I think it's time for the board to take immediate action. Get rid now, and get the right man for the job.
The right man is Owen Coyle. Ok so allegedly he's a Bolton Man. But if we offer the right money we will get him
A real loyal manager there!! What a joke his results were terrible when he went to Bolton, now he has had time to settle and a full pre season they are playing well.
People need to realise if houllier is allowed to run Villa the way he wants, we have a manager who can attract young talented players the likes of Coyle etc couldn't!
His results were still good enoough to keep Bolton up, and he left a Burnley team that were half way up the league. Coyle left to further his career, and his decisions's been justified with the way Bolton are going this season. He's not going to take Bolton any further already with the resources he has. So give him the chance for a crack with a "bigger team"
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There's something odd about Houllier that I think has an affect on the players.
Basically due to the type of work I am in (Catering) I know quite a few 'chefs' at Villa. Every match day Houllier is in early and sits down to lunch with the Directors and other VIPs for lunch a few hours before KO.
On 3 occasions this season, including yesterday (other times were West Brom and Chelsea) Mr Houllier has been in the room (either stayed since lunch or came back later on) with the Directors right up until moments before KO.
I think it's a bit odd that he doesn't really have much contact with the players just before games and leaves it all to Gary Mac and Sid.
Also another bit of exciting news concerning catering and Houllier, he eats at the training ground everyday with Mrs Houllier.
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Owen Coyle? I think someone's on the wind up!!!
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Randy has spent millions, MoN fucked it up so Randy had to balance the books. MoN couldn't hack it so fucked off and left us in the shit.
That's a pretty good summing up. Now it looks like Houllier is going to finish the job of messing it up.
I admit to not being convinced by Houllier but have always prefferred his CV to Mons, so am surprised, especially considering the Squads circumstances, that so many see him as the no hope option so early on in his time at Villa.
I know from past experience from early predictions on Mon this site is completely behind new managers to the detriment of any dissenter.
Perhaps as thet were so wrong on Taylor mk 2, Dol, and Mon, Houllier just might just be the man.
He certainly needs more time but I must admit to having serious doubts, which I'm hoping a fully fit side will dispel quickly.
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Also another bit of exciting news concerning catering and Houllier, he eats at the training ground everyday with Mrs Houllier.
Crikey, this is gold dust. Does he hold his knife like a pen? What condiments does he prefer?
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There's something odd about Houllier that I think has an affect on the players.
Basically due to the type of work I am in (Catering) I know quite a few 'chefs' at Villa. Every match day Houllier is in early and sits down to lunch with the Directors and other VIPs for lunch a few hours before KO.
On 3 occasions this season, including yesterday (other times were West Brom and Chelsea) Mr Houllier has been in the room (either stayed since lunch or came back later on) with the Directors right up until moments before KO.
I think it's a bit odd that he doesn't really have much contact with the players just before games and leaves it all to Gary Mac and Sid.
Also another bit of exciting news concerning catering and Houllier, he eats at the training ground everyday with Mrs Houllier.
That's interesting, considering the amout of times I've seen him arrive with the team about an hour before kick-off.
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Having thought about it a bit more rationally, I think the best course is to spend just enough money in January to ensure that we have the wherewithal to accrue 40 points and them in the summer, rather like with Venglos, accept that it was an appointment that didn't work out, cut our loses and move on.
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The bit I'm struggling with is how come GH / GM have pissed off so many players so quickly ? and is it retrievable
Carew for example is a great player when he wants to be, we could do with him out there now
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Having thought about it a bit more rationally, I think the best course is to spend just enough money in January to ensure that we have the wherewithal to accrue 40 points and them in the summer, rather like with Venglos, accept that it was an appointment that didn't work out, cut our loses and move on.
back him or sack him for me,
i'd back him as i feel he can build something,
but i wouldnt give him any money to spend on players if we are thinking of getting rid at the end of the season, the lads we have already are plenty good enough for a mid table finish as i expect us to be
limboland is no good to anyone,
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If we're going to get rid now, I wouldn't appoint a Jol or an Allardyce, instead let Kevin Mac, Tony Mac and Sid steady the ship, regroup the squad and get us through to May
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The bit I'm struggling with is how come GH / GM have pissed off so many players so quickly ? and is it retrievable
Carew for example is a great player when he wants to be, we could do with him out there now
A great player? NO, a good player when he wants to be which isn't often enough, I dont think he wants to be here, he never stays at any club to long.
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If we're going to get rid now, I wouldn't appoint a Jol or an Allardyce, instead let Kevin Mac, Tony Mac and Sid steady the ship, regroup the squad and get us through to May
Kevin Mc is great with the kids/reserves, he made us look world beaters against wet spam but look at that shambolic display/result at Newcastle
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There were a few shouting "Houllier Out" at the end of the game yesterday. If the next 2 go as expected then that could be a few hundred if the Sunderland game goes badly.
Personally I think he has to be given at least until the end of the season.
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Kevin Mac are you kidding, the main problem Houllier has had is with players that won't toe the line and need getting rid of, KM has no experience of handling big ego's he would have been overwhelmed.
The big thing GH has got is connections, what players would KM attract?
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Yeah there were a few 'out' calls by me too (lower holte), it's certainly getting bigger.
At the time of his appointment I wanted him to have the season and thought Moyes might be gettable next Summer. Coyle is now a possibility too.
Give him the window, let him replace the senior players and see what happens. There's three senior players (Dunne, Ireland, Carew) who aren't worth anything to us at the moment, and another couple (Collins, Gabby) who are out of form. Mix in the injuries and the inconsistancy of the kids and it's no suprise. It's a shame the Wigan game was postponed, we'd have won that and been 9th...
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I think gerard has the knowhow to sort things out but I believe he has dropped a clanger in appointing mcallister who has been a flop in every coaching and managers job he has done- mac may have been a good player under houllier but as a coach I feel he is well below the quality needed.
The next month will be huge for us and randy must back the manager fully with cash as he needs to unload o neills trash and bring in some quality signings! Seeing houllier last night he looked jaded and stressed and I wonder if he is feeling the pressure - a great football man but I think maybe better suited to director of football- if GED feels he can handle the stress though I am happy for him to remain in the managers role.
As regards some calling for keV mac to be put in charge- if he had kept the job I'm convinced we would be as good as down by now, never have I seen such a shambles as keV macs brief reign and that includes the mcneill era!
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There's something odd about Houllier that I think has an affect on the players.
Basically due to the type of work I am in (Catering) I know quite a few 'chefs' at Villa. Every match day Houllier is in early and sits down to lunch with the Directors and other VIPs for lunch a few hours before KO.
On 3 occasions this season, including yesterday (other times were West Brom and Chelsea) Mr Houllier has been in the room (either stayed since lunch or came back later on) with the Directors right up until moments before KO.
I think it's a bit odd that he doesn't really have much contact with the players just before games and leaves it all to Gary Mac and Sid.
Also another bit of exciting news concerning catering and Houllier, he eats at the training ground everyday with Mrs Houllier.
This is unbelieveable. Unbelieveable that you forgot Rene and Edith ran a Cafe in France before being evacuated!
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The guy hasnt even had a transfer window yet , he was left with MON's overpaid deadwood ;-(
I would be more worried with the appointment of mcallister at the moment than Houlier , I wish we had bloody Phil thompson now..... or maybe Wilkins
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I'm not impressed by Houllier one iota and wish he wasn't our manager but we have to give him til the summer at least. Changing managers now is a ceratin way to get relegated. I would like to think he has all his ins and outs drawn up and will move quickly in January. Survival is the one and only objective this season I'm afraid.
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/22/article-1314379-0B4F193E000005DC-75_634x461.jpg)
Movie Poster for the film 'Dumb and Dumber'
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Dumb_and_dumber_soundtrack_cover.jpg)
Gerard Houllier and Gary MacAllister
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There were a few shouting "Houllier Out" at the end of the game yesterday. If the next 2 go as expected then that could be a few hundred if the Sunderland game goes badly.
Personally I think he has to be given at least until the end of the season.
There were a couple behind me, with mad popping eyes and smelling vaguely of sprouts.
But there is a very level headed chap sitting on our row who stood up and left as soon as he brought Pires on. When somebody like him has had enough, you know it's all getting a bit Winter of Discontent.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
It would certainly surprise him - I've been told the French were shocked we burnt Joan of Arc considering we boiled most things we ate.
I think TV was more to "how would you like your steak Sir" and the French know that in England it's mostly burnt!
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Given the squad Houllier inherited, the timing of his appointment and the number of injuries we've had, what did people expect?
If we'd won yesterday we'd have been sitting in 9th place 4 and 6 points behind the teams in 7th and 6th with a game in hand. This thread wouldn't have existed and everyone would have been happy.
Some on here have commented that players aren't happy and there is unrest at the training ground. Richard Dunne being the main culprit and one of the players most people have had a go at for being too fat and shit.
We were never going to achieve much this season given all of the problems but it's not fanciful to expect a half-decent run in the New Year.
Chill.
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On the plus side, at least our season wont be ending in Feb this year.....
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Chill.
It's alright for you, you haven't got a Spurs fan staying in your house, eating all the boiled ham and predicting that Redknapp will swap David Bentley for Ashley Young
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I was'nt that overwhelmed when we appointed him, i thought he was too old and passed it slightly but i got behind him regardless, like you do.
The football is better with it being played on the floor, but other than that it's been a bit of a disaster so far. Injuries have'nt helped of course, but seeing a midfield of Delph and Hogg yesterday when NRC and Bannan are siting on the bench is one of a few weird decisions he's made since he's been here. Dropping Carlos for Dunne after the Wolves game was another. He always seems to come across as wanting to be somewhere else other than shivering on our bench, although i'm sure that's not the case.
I really want to see him succeed, i quite like the bloke but just like i thought at the time of the appointment, something tells me he's not the right man.
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
TV it's all very well for you to suggest burning him sitting safe a few thousand miles away. We will have the might of the French army to deal with as surely war would be declared. Can you please suggest something else?
And also I am not impressed with your indecisiveness in choosing his replacement and why have you forgotten Sir Graham Taylor?
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Given the squad Houllier inherited, the timing of his appointment and the number of injuries we've had, what did people expect?
If we'd won yesterday we'd have been sitting in 9th place 4 and 6 points behind the teams in 7th and 6th with a game in hand. This thread wouldn't have existed and everyone would have been happy.
Some on here have commented that players aren't happy and there is unrest at the training ground. Richard Dunne being the main culprit and one of the players most people have had a go at for being too fat and shit.
We were never going to achieve much this season given all of the problems but it's not fanciful to expect a half-decent run in the New Year.
Chill.
Amen to this.
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On the plus side, at least our season wont be ending in Feb this year.....
Oh, how soon we forget. Here was me remembering not even 12 months ago an FA Cup semi-final in mid-April and a challenge for a Champions League place that was only ended mathematically on the first day of May.
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Given the squad Houllier inherited, the timing of his appointment and the number of injuries we've had, what did people expect?
If we'd won yesterday we'd have been sitting in 9th place 4 and 6 points behind the teams in 7th and 6th with a game in hand. This thread wouldn't have existed and everyone would have been happy.
Some on here have commented that players aren't happy and there is unrest at the training ground. Richard Dunne being the main culprit and one of the players most people have had a go at for being too fat and shit.
We were never going to achieve much this season given all of the problems but it's not fanciful to expect a half-decent run in the New Year.
Chill.
Yes this and people have spoken on this thread. 66% voted for no sack combined options of "trading period" and "rest of the season"
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Like most managers he needs a couple of transfer windows so that he can get his own players in before we can really judge him and he's had to contend with the worse injury crisis I can remember as a Villa fan,but like most people on here I didnt see the appointment coming,and now the squad is nearly back to full strength I was suprised by a couple of the selections yesterday. We need a big improvement in the performance tomorrow to give us some hope to cling on to.
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I'm just curious as to how people know that McAllister is a bad coach?
A few sources from 'other fans' and some overweight defender moaning don't really give us much of an idea.
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Jan will make or break him. If he has a transfer record of his early days at Liverpool, we'll improve. If he starts pulling Diao's and Diouf's out the air, we're up shit creek with out a paddle!
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I think we should give him a chance, Ok its not brilliant at the moment but part of the problem is we don't have a striker, we have needed a striker for years. I like gabby but he isn't a 20 goal a year striker and he wont be. We need someone up there and it isn't Heskey!
We also need quality in centre midfield, there isn't a player in there who can create something or put in a killer pass. That was plainly obvious last night. Wide men are ok but a top quality midfielder is needed. He hasn't had the chance to bring someone in so let's give him chance?
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Having thought about it a bit more rationally, I think the best course is to spend just enough money in January to ensure that we have the wherewithal to accrue 40 points and them in the summer, rather like with Venglos, accept that it was an appointment that didn't work out, cut our loses and move on.
Agreed
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Mcallister was player coach when Coventry were relegated and then having took over as manager departed with them in the lower reaches of the championship, he also failed at Leeds and left middlesbrough at the bottom of the table so his credentials as a coach are hardly outstanding!
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Having thought about it a bit more rationally, I think the best course is to spend just enough money in January to ensure that we have the wherewithal to accrue 40 points and them in the summer, rather like with Venglos, accept that it was an appointment that didn't work out, cut our loses and move on.
Agreed
I'd go along with that to be honest. I would hope come summer there'd be a few decent coaches, in their prime, available and ready for a shot at turning us around.
It's just so frustrating having gotten to a point under O Neill, only to find ourselves back in the same state as when O Leary fucked off. It's almost like the previous 4 years of gradual progression didn't happen. :(
Much as Houllier is looking very much like the wrong appointment, at the very least, he's laying some positive foundations with the younger players, which will only benefit the next manager in waiting. The likes of Lichaj, Bannan and more evidently, Albrighton will be important players and will be ready. But we can't for a second think we're too good to go down. We're in trouble.
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Give him the season I reckon.
I don't like the guy if I'm honest and if he gets the tin-tack before the end of the season I wouldn't miss him - I think he's always going to be the ex-boss of somebody else rather than a Villa man.
However, there's a chance he'll sort it out, and I can only leave him to get on with it.
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Mcallister was player coach when Coventry were relegated and then having took over as manager departed with them in the lower reaches of the championship, he also failed at Leeds and left middlesbrough at the bottom of the table so his credentials as a coach are hardly outstanding!
He wasnt Houliers first choice neither..
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I think we should give him a chance, Ok its not brilliant at the moment but part of the problem is we don't have a striker, we have needed a striker for years. I like gabby but he isn't a 20 goal a year striker and he wont be. We need someone up there and it isn't Heskey!
We also need quality in centre midfield, there isn't a player in there who can create something or put in a killer pass. That was plainly obvious last night. Wide men are ok but a top quality midfielder is needed. He hasn't had the chance to bring someone in so let's give him chance?
Gabby might not be a 20 goal a season striker but he did get 16 last season and for a striker that doesn't take penalties but won a good few that is a pretty good return. John Carew got 17 last season. 33 goals between the pair was decent going. It beggars belief how poor they both have been in terms of attitude, fitness not to mention goals in the space of 6 months.
The 20 goals a season thing is a misnomer anyway. We banged in was it 71 league goals a few seasons back with Carew top scoring with only 13.
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I liked the bloke up until the Liverpool fiasco. It's easy to say that it's just one of those things and move on, but after you've paid your £40 and froze to death, as well as juggling work commitments it's a bitter pill to swallow.
It seems to me either he isn't committed to the jop or has been away from the coaching aspect of the game for too long.
Either way, I think we need to quickly accept the fact that the appointment isn''t working out and quickly move on. Otherwise I fear we could be in a relagation battle at the end of the season.
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Either way, I think we need to quickly accept the fact that the appointment isn''t working out and quickly move on.
And bring in who?
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I liked the bloke up until the Liverpool fiasco. It's easy to say that it's just one of those things and move on, but after you've paid your £40 and froze to death, as well as juggling work commitments it's a bitter pill to swallow.
It seems to me either he isn't committed to the jop or has been away from the coaching aspect of the game for too long.
Either way, I think we need to quickly accept the fact that the appointment isn''t working out and quickly move on. Otherwise I fear we could be in a relagation battle at the end of the season.
Surely with the transfer window only a few days away the last thing we need is to waste it by searching for a new manager.
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Either way, I think we need to quickly accept the fact that the appointment isn''t working out and quickly move on.
And bring in who?
I hear that Curbishley is still looking for work as is Allardyce. Maybe we can go for them, as quite frankly that's the best we can hope for if we sack our managers after 3 months.
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Gabby looks overweight. Not just muscle, he looks like he's been on the Dunney diet too in all honesty. His pace has deserted him. Granted he'll still skin most defenders, but a year or two back he could murder almost everyone in this league, short of Lennon and Walcott in a foot race.
So basically, what this means is, his main asset, isn't quite the asset it was. And for Houllier's game plan, Gabby isn't anywhere near technically good enough to do what Gerard probably wants. Under O Neill he just had to chase balls down the channels, and use his pace, and when the wide men were ready to deliver, burst into the box with his pace again, and find the space to finish off.
Obviously Ashley Youngs poor form and move central doesn't help Gab either. How many goals has Agbonlahor got, getting on the end of one of Ash's deliveries from wide? A lot in the last 3 years I'd say. They've had few games together this year, and neither has been at their best, and we're suffering.
If Houllier doesn't pull a decent forward out the bag in January, we'll continue struggling. Since he took over we've never looked like routing anyone. We always seem fortunate when we actually do score, and we make bloody hard work of creating chances. Downing and Albrighton make things happen, but how often do they deliver quality from wide, only to see a penalty box with nary a Villa player in sight, with piss poor movement. Heskey bless him still plays mostly outside the 18 yrd line. Gabby's off the ball movement has been very poor. He's not busting a gut like he did under O Neill either.
It's a shame Carew has been so awful. On form, he'd be relishing the delivery of our wide players. He could stand in the box and barely have to move to make something happen. But clearly, it's never gonna work with him and Houllier. And in a one up top system, Carew will never do the work required.
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Gabby isn't overweight.
Him and Young have only played a couple of times together so any sort of objective assessment is impossible.
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Theabove gabby and Carew example is a good one, 33 goals last term ! And all of a sudden we want to give big John away to a local rival!!
Madness, as for gabby, great striker coil easily have had 2 yesterday
Face facts it looks like the players don't want Houllier around and unless results improve over the next 3 or 4 games sorry harsh as it may seem he has to go
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GReat strikers score goals for fun- neither gabby or ash are good enough finishers to in any way be described as great strikers!
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I say burn him as sacking isn't enough, and bring in Allardyce, Hughton, Holloway or Warnock.
You have changed your tune
for that to have gone clear over your head, you must be short
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Face facts it looks like the players don't want Houllier around and unless results improve over the next 3 or 4 games sorry harsh as it may seem he has to go
Which players don't want him around? The dross MON left behind?
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Gabby isn't overweight.
Him and Young have only played a couple of times together so any sort of objective assessment is impossible.
agreed. Gabby probably has 4-6% body fat as opposed to most of us Richard Dunne lookalikes. In fact, Houllier has been telling Gabby to ease of the weights as it might making him heavier and slower. It will also put a lot of pressure on his body and it's possible some of his injuries can be attributed to his workout regime. Gabby fat - no chance at all.
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Haven't read the thread but I said at the time of his appointment: give him the season and if he hasn't shown he's the man for the job, go and get David Moyes.
Although I certainly don't think todays the day for this thread, I thought we played really well.
David Moyes always has a shit start to the season. People would be calling for his head just the same.
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Anyone who think's we don't need a striker is mental
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As if Moyes would come to us !
Sideways move for him? He would only leave Everton for a top 4 club
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If we're going to get rid now, I wouldn't appoint a Jol or an Allardyce, instead let Kevin Mac, Tony Mac and Sid steady the ship, regroup the squad and get us through to May
And not get rid of crud sitting in the stands taking £12-£15m worth of wages from the club.
And besides, what manager would want to work with a club that sacks managers before they've had a transfer window.
I not particularly impressed with Houllier and wasn't while he was at Liverpool, but anybody calling for his head is frankly stupid.
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Anyone who think's we don't need a striker is mental
We do, but sorting our defence out ha to be the priority
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I was prepared to give Houllier a chance but he has won three in thirteen and last night we had the look of a relegation team to me.
Why was Reo-Coker on the bench and Hogg, who is not and never will be good enough, was chosen with Delph, it was a gamble of a desperate man in my opinion.
Once again we were nearly caught out a few times with tippy-tappy passes between the defenders, who are not used to playing that way.
Heskey is never going to last a match, so where was the like-for like replacement and our top scorer for the last three seasons ?
Houllier is a stubborn man who tries to break players to his will, like the old schoolteacher he once was, and in doing so he is going to take us down, I have seen it before and it's happening again, if anybody thinks we are too good to go down they are wrong.
The crowd feel it, last night there was a feeling of doom around the place I have'nt felt since the late eighties under Turner and Billy McBingo.
Lerner needs to act quickly and decisively.
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Didn't do somersaults when he was appointed and I've become increasingly
disallusioned with some of his comments, the latest being 'We have to blame
ourselves for the mistakes we made' ( what must he be saying to the players?)
Knee jerk reaction to sack the bloke at this stage, however any new arrivals
in January transfer window will have to hit the ground running (unlikely) and
the players who want to stay will need to up their game to pull us clear of a
relegation dog fight
What is concerning is the number of discontented players who allegedly want
away from the club which would possibly indicate GH has 'lost the dressing room'
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Anyone who think's we don't need a striker is mental
We do, but sorting our defence out ha to be the priority
Yes the defence is woeful, but the lightweight midfield like yesterday's can't be helping them. Let's put it this way, if he plays Hogg and Delph in the middle again tomorrow, it could be a very very long and horrible 90 minutes.
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My big problem with Houllier is he seems to take everything to lightly and calm as if he's on holiday. One moment yesterday when the ball came out and he had a laugh with the spurs player.............fuck off were losing 1-0!! urgency and passion please.
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Has Houllier united Villa fans? We all dislike the man.
Is there anyone who actually likes the bloke?
I know there's many differing opinions on what should happen to him, give him time, transfer funds or burn him etc but does anyone actually like having the bloke as our manager?
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It may well be that all the game time that are youngsters are getting at the minute will benefit us in the future, but there's no question that Houllier's inconsistent and often cavalier team selections as well as his seeming inability to organise the side when they are not in possession are costing us points and whether this is going to cost us in any significant sense remains to be seen.
However for the sake of the club's credibility I think we have to stick with him to the end of the season and see how things look then.
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Has Houllier united Villa fans? We all dislike the man.
Is there anyone who actually likes the bloke?
I know there's many differing opinions on what should happen to him, give him time, transfer funds or burn him etc but does anyone actually like having the bloke as our manager?
No.
No we don't.
I do.
I do.
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Fair enough Legion.
Can I ask what you like about him/what he has done so far.
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My big problem with Houllier is he seems to take everything to lightly and calm as if he's on holiday. One moment yesterday when the ball came out and he had a laugh with the spurs player.............fuck off were losing 1-0!! urgency and passion please.
Agree completely. God knows MON had his issues but at least he showed some passion for the club. Shout, swear and bollock in public, stop acting like a fucking school teacher!
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there was a piece in the paper the other day about carragher and he seemed to think Houllier often lost his temper with the players in the dressing room, much more so than FSW or Hodgson. so as far as passion is concerned appearances can be deceptive
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Either way, I think we need to quickly accept the fact that the appointment isn''t working out and quickly move on.
And bring in who?
I hear that Curbishley is still looking for work as is Allardyce. Maybe we can go for them, as quite frankly that's the best we can hope for if we sack our managers after 3 months.
Di Matteo? Coyle? Grayson? O'Driscall? Even Lee Clark's doing a good job at Huddesfield
We need a young manager that's going to show some passion for the club. There's some good young managers outside the top flight that are capable of managing in the 1st Division.
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Fair enough Legion.
Can I ask what you like about him/what he has done so far.
i'm with legion, i like him for these reasons -
we are trying to play better more actractive football
he is brave enough to give our young players a chance and not shit himself and play negative boring football by packing the midfield and try and gain a point by playing in a similar vien to blues/blackburn under aladyce
he's not scared of upsetting senoir players who arnt performing, and saying they can leave if they dont improve
i think he is building something at Villa that might take more than 5 minuets given that it will revolve around inexperienced players, and hopefully he will bring in some better quality players than he inherited to play his way
you might not agree with me on most points, but that is the way i see it,
theres plenty who dont like him,. thats fair enough, every one has there own viewpoint,
i wouldnt back someone like Alladyce, i wouldnt give him a chance,
i just wouldnt go whilst he was there, i'm to old now to watch shit anti football, yesterday was not great and the result was bad, but it wasnt anti football, it wasnt long ball, and there were a lot of good young Villa players gaining a lot of experience by playing against the likes of van der vart,
so for me it wasnt all bad
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Fair enough Legion.
Can I ask what you like about him/what he has done so far.
i'm with legion, i like him for these reasons -
we are trying to play better more actractive football
he is brave enough to give our young players a chance and not shit himself and play negative boring football by packing the midfield and try and gain a point by playing in a similar vien to blues/blackburn under aladyce
you might not agree with me on most points, but that is the way i see it,
theres plenty who dont like him,. thats fair enough, every one has there own viewpoint,
i wouldnt back someone like Alladyce, i wouldnt give him a chance,
i just wouldnt go whilst he was there, i'm to old now to watch shit anti football, yesterday was not great and the result was bad, but it wasnt anti football, it wasnt long ball, and there were a lot of good young Villa players gaining a lot of experience by playing against the likes of van der vart,
so for me it wasnt all bad
Let's be honest, we did resort to drastic measures yesterday by throwing on a 37 year old winger and playing a centre half up front for the last 10 minutes.
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Di Matteo? Coyle? Grayson? O'Driscall? Even Lee Clark's doing a good job at Huddesfield
Yeah, that'd be genus.
Appointing Di Matteo or Coyle on the basis of half a decent PL season, or the other two who have never managed in the top flight.
As for Lee Clark, did someone inject your turkey with pure crack cocaine on Christmas morning?
It's one thing to moan about the club for not thinking big, which is something lots of people have done at various times, but to suggest a load of managers to sack GH for and then reel out that depressing list is the epitome of small time thinking.
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Has Houllier united Villa fans? We all dislike the man.
Is there anyone who actually likes the bloke?
I think he comes across quite well, but that doesn't really matter. It's how good he is as a manager that counts, and I would like to see him given a chance rather than chucked out in the middle of the worst run of injuries for years.
However, I've taken an instant dislike to you and your presupposing, koreanmeatballs.
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Don't see what there is to gain by sacking him at this time of the season - there's no-one out there available to replace him. And don't anyone dare suggest Big Fat Sam!
We've had plenty of patients this season, now it's time for some patience.
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Fair enough Legion.
Can I ask what you like about him/what he has done so far.
i'm with legion, i like him for these reasons -
we are trying to play better more actractive football
he is brave enough to give our young players a chance and not shit himself and play negative boring football by packing the midfield and try and gain a point by playing in a similar vien to blues/blackburn under aladyce
he's not scared of upsetting senoir players who arnt performing, and saying they can leave if they dont improve
i think he is building something at Villa that might take more than 5 minuets given that it will revolve around inexperienced players, and hopefully he will bring in some better quality players than he inherited to play his way
you might not agree with me on most points, but that is the way i see it,
theres plenty who dont like him,. thats fair enough, every one has there own viewpoint,
i wouldnt back someone like Alladyce, i wouldnt give him a chance,
i just wouldnt go whilst he was there, i'm to old now to watch shit anti football, yesterday was not great and the result was bad, but it wasnt anti football, it wasnt long ball, and there were a lot of good young Villa players gaining a lot of experience by playing against the likes of van der vart,
so for me it wasnt all bad
I understand what you're saying but we all have different opinions.
Are you surprised how he is disliked with some fans? Reading this message board and others quite a few people are having a go at him (even reports of people having a go at the game.)
I can't really remember a manager at Villa who has become so unpopular with certain sections of fans in such a short space of time.
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I can't really remember a manager at Villa who has become so unpopular with certain sections of fans in such a short space of time.
There has never been a manager arrived at the Villa in such circumstances. He is like a man who's bought a car with the bonnet open and the hazard lights flashing.
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I can't really remember a manager at Villa who has become so unpopular with certain sections of fans in such a short space of time.
There has never been a manager arrived at the Villa in such circumstances. He is like a man who's bought a car with the bonnet open and the hazard lights flashing.
Yeah and there is no spare wheel in the boot
PS Damon...no news out there or are you on holiday? Cheers VCTM
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The point is: usually when a new man takes over at the Villa, he comes in on the back of a long losing streak under an increasingly unpopular coach, and can enjoy a bit of goodwill from players and fans and a bit of a rebound in form and support.
O'Neill was relatively popular and relatively successful at the moment when he ran away.
(I am doing the cricket today, just killing time a bit.)
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True, except for SGT Mk II, who was hated immediately by some twats.
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The SGT mk II analogy is a good one, I'd forgotten that. In effect he was trying to do exactly the same job, trying to shovel somebody else's shit. And *he* got a load of stick when he dared to suggest that finishing above the noses wasn't his top priority.
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I am amazed at the lack of some people's ability to put the season in context.
Houllier deserves another season after this one as long as we stay up imo. Martin O'Neill had a shed load of cash and 4 years to build a side that has crumbled in 6 months following his departure, not a great advert for his ability to build a sustainable squad. Give Houlier at least 2 full windows to see if his signings are any better.
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The major difference and worrying thing for me is that GH seems unable to organise, motivate or guide 11 players on the field.
Compare and contrast to MON's first game in charge - even with an average 11 players, he had them organsied as a team and got a great result at The Emirates
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The major difference and worrying thing for me is that GH seems unable to organise, motivate or guide 11 players on the field.
Compare and contrast to MON's first game in charge - even with an average 11 players, he had them organsied as a team and got a great result at The Emirates
Totally different vibe at the club. Apples and oranges.
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MON's signings - with MON as manager - meant top six, some inspiration and belief (and last season two Wembley appearances). Predictable at times but effective most of those times. Taking MON out of the equation is the problem. The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club. This is unfortunately a risky strategy when we have a poor run of results and bad run of luck with injuries. And then the manager mystifyingly starts with a bizarre line-up against one of the in-form sides in the division. We were competely over-run. Houllier does not need to hop around like a madman on the touchline to show he's in control but he at least needs to show a bit more guile and some more of tactical nous many thought he had in spades over his predecessor. He looks increasingly like a rabbit in headlights.
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The major difference and worrying thing for me is that GH seems unable to organise, motivate or guide 11 players on the field.
Compare and contrast to MON's first game in charge - even with an average 11 players, he had them organsied as a team and got a great result at The Emirates
Totally different vibe at the club. Apples and oranges.
Think you're forgetting how shocking a state DOL had left us in. There certainly was no positive vibe then
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Fair enough Legion.
Can I ask what you like about him/what he has done so far.
i'm with legion, i like him for these reasons -
we are trying to play better more actractive football
he is brave enough to give our young players a chance and not shit himself and play negative boring football by packing the midfield and try and gain a point by playing in a similar vien to blues/blackburn under aladyce
he's not scared of upsetting senoir players who arnt performing, and saying they can leave if they dont improve
i think he is building something at Villa that might take more than 5 minuets given that it will revolve around inexperienced players, and hopefully he will bring in some better quality players than he inherited to play his way
you might not agree with me on most points, but that is the way i see it,
theres plenty who dont like him,. thats fair enough, every one has there own viewpoint,
i wouldnt back someone like Alladyce, i wouldnt give him a chance,
i just wouldnt go whilst he was there, i'm to old now to watch shit anti football, yesterday was not great and the result was bad, but it wasnt anti football, it wasnt long ball, and there were a lot of good young Villa players gaining a lot of experience by playing against the likes of van der vart,
so for me it wasnt all bad
Now that my Grandson has gone back to his Mom's, I was going to reply in depth in answer to koreanmeatballs. john e has saved me the time because this is basically how I see it as well. I'd have used capital letters and full stops, though.
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The major difference and worrying thing for me is that GH seems unable to organise, motivate or guide 11 players on the field.
Compare and contrast to MON's first game in charge - even with an average 11 players, he had them organsied as a team and got a great result at The Emirates
Totally different vibe at the club. Apples and oranges.
Think you're forgetting how shocking a state DOL had left us in. There certainly was no positive vibe then
We'd just got an owner who couldn't have been bettered and the manager everyone wanted. Of course it was positive.
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Yeah ok, I was referring to the point at which DOL exited
The players MON inherited after DOL were IMO inferior to the current squad, so why hasn't GH been able to galvanise the group ?
By all accounts, most of the players were glad to see MON gone
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If something doesn't change we will be relegated. People have said that there are at least 3 teams beginning W that are worse than us but the reality is that there are 3 teams beginning with W that have taken more points than us since Gerard became manager.
The idea that we are relying on January signings to try and help us avoid relegation is horrendous. We were a very effective team last season and he needs to get us back playing like that. Fast.
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maybe when he gets a chance he will, or has you missed the injuries
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Yeah ok, I was referring to the point at which DOL exited
The players MON inherited after DOL were IMO inferior to the current squad, so why hasn't GH been able to galvanise the group ?
By all accounts, most of the players were glad to see MON gone
I think it's because a lot of them know they'll be gone first chance he gets. In the normal course of events this would have been done as soon as the new manager arrived, but for obvious reasons he couldn't until January at the earliest.
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I reckon the bust up with Dunne has had a big impact upon the dressing room
I imagine Dunne would be a big influence on the players down there, as would NRC and Carew
The bit I don't get is though, those 3 players would provide an excellenet spine to most teams, Carew scored what 16 goals last season ? if properly motivated and coached, we wouldn't be selling them but getting the best out of them whilst their on the payroll
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The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.
That's surely a little over the top?
I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.
In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.
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Mid-table would be a result based on current predicament
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I think mid-table is where we will be come May. We'll push on and improve next season.
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Mcallister is a mistake. His record proves it. Tactics, player runrest, injuries....
I dunno. Good politics as well. Keep the frog if you want but for Christ sake get us playing effective football.
Striker, creative midfielder, one at least centre back and a new keeper. The spine simply does not exist. Neither does a game plan.
We are fodder to good sides with passion, belief, skill and tactical nouse. And also bad sides with aggression and the long ball.
I watched West Ham (week end) on the tele and they looked better than us!!
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I reckon the bust up with Dunne has had a big impact upon the dressing room
I imagine Dunne would be a big influence on the players down there, as would NRC and Carew
The bit I don't get is though, those 3 players would provide an excellenet spine to most teams, Carew scored what 16 goals last season ? if properly motivated and coached, we wouldn't be selling them but getting the best out of them whilst their on the payroll
have you not seen the pathetic lazyness of carew , a disgrace to the villa shirt and and cant wait to see him booted out anywhere!
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I think mid-table is where we will be come May. We'll push on and improve next season.
I agree. I don't know what is annoying me more: our form or some of the OTT wailing and gnashing of teeth on here. We will not be relegated. Soon we will have new signings and injured players back and some tough fixtures over and done with and we will be climbing the league. I say about 12th. Where we go from there in the next season I don't know.
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i still think we can finish 8th and will put a run together once we have a couple of new players in and get rid of some of the troublemakers .
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There should be an option to give Houlier the time to see his contract out. I would vote for that.
I am concerned about our league position but we are still only one win from ninth.
I feel Houllier is so different to MON that he must have time and his own players.
He has a record of success and is well thought of it seems. I thinkl Villa will only ever be a top four club by playing more sophisticated football than we did with MON and I like our passing game.
I also feel MON left us in a poor position. He made some poor and very expensive buys which has left the club with a legacy of dead weight and a financial burden.
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The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.
That's surely a little over the top?
I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.
In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.
How about the last two transfer windows and the intention to focus on the wage bill?
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I reckon the bust up with Dunne has had a big impact upon the dressing room
I imagine Dunne would be a big influence on the players down there, as would NRC and Carew
The bit I don't get is though, those 3 players would provide an excellenet spine to most teams, Carew scored what 16 goals last season ? if properly motivated and coached, we wouldn't be selling them but getting the best out of them whilst their on the payroll
have you not seen the pathetic lazyness of carew , a disgrace to the villa shirt and and cant wait to see him booted out anywhere!
Is that the same Carew that scored 16 Prem goals last term ???
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The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.
That's surely a little over the top?
I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.
In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.
How about the last two transfer windows and the intention to focus on the wage bill?
Or, put slightly differently,`intention to stop a business from haemorrhaging money before it is too late.'
There's not much excitement or glory in being sensible, I concede that. But there it is.
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I must admit to being seriously worried now. There is an incredible lack of belief and passion from the players, and I was amazed at how quiet the crowd was last night, and I was in the Holte upper. I read today that we had 59% possession but most of it was sideways and there we too few occasions when we looked like playing an intelligent forward pass. I heard we had 24 chances on goal but am struggling to remember many proper saves by Gomes - our goal was indicative of our playas a whole.
Houllier does deserve a transfer window to get some of his own players in but he also needs to manage the players he has inherited. If I remember correctly, Houllier has previously sold Friedel, Warnock and Carew so they are probably playing with no confidence whatsoever. But not starting with Petrov or NRC last night - or both - was strange against a midfield full of confidence and experience, and to play Delph for the first time in 9 months was a strange (brave?) decision. Tactically I thought these were very strange options, as was using Collins as a makeshift centre forward in the last 10-15 minutes (again TBF, I think I remember the mighty mourinho using Robert Huth in the same role on a few occasions).
Roll on 1 January Gerard, and please give me reasons to believe.
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If something doesn't change we will be relegated. People have said that there are at least 3 teams beginning W that are worse than us but the reality is that there are 3 teams beginning with W that have taken more points than us since Gerard became manager.
The idea that we are relying on January signings to try and help us avoid relegation is horrendous. We were a very effective team last season and he needs to get us back playing like that. Fast.
theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future
we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,
remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow
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To be fair Collins as CF did yield a goal (by default)
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To be fair Collins as CF did yield a goal (by default)
But it does go against the whole playing more football debate if when we're really struggling we are reduced to that.
I am looking forward to seeing what players he brings in over the next month especially I have may not have seen half of them play, I'd be annoyed if we sold any of the kids, Gabby or Ashley, anyone else is fair game.
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The fumbling over his replacement, and what looked now (and then) like a convenient distraction by his sudden exit not to strengthen before the transfer deadline, we are now being built to be a mid-table club.
That's surely a little over the top?
I'm sure the last word they'd have used to describe MON's departure would have been "convenient", in whichever context.
In which way are we being built to be a mid table club? I just don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion without something concrete - like a transfer window or two - to back it up.
How about the last two transfer windows and the intention to focus on the wage bill?
Or, put slightly differently,`intention to stop a business from haemorrhaging money before it is too late.'
There's not much excitement or glory in being sensible, I concede that. But there it is.
When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.
And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.
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When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.
And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.
That's just it isn't it? You think Randy should hand over every penny he and his family possess. Were you, by any chance, a Wolves supporter when Jack Hayward was in charge? Because you sound like one.
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Sidwell and Beye were regarded as investments until it became clear that they were actually liabilities.
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theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future
we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,
remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow
One decent 60 minute spell against an injury ravaged Man U isn't enough to prove that the good times are around the corner with Houllier in charge. He's looked hopelessly out of his depth since arriving. Villadawg is right, relegation is a very real possibility.
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I just can't put my finger on exactly what is wrong with the team right now... yes our defence hasn't been good and keeping Collins in the team isn't helping, we're not putting away our chances etc... we're just not being ruthless enough, we're trying but it's the same outcome most of the time. Apart from Newcastle and Liverpool away I don't think I can think of another game when we played so badly... we're putting in the performances but not getting out from what we're putting in.
No point in blaming Houllier and saying it's all his fault, he hasn't the chance to play his first choice of 11 yet... players are coming back from injury and we'll bringning in some additions hopefully, that's the time to judge.
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theres not another club in the prem including the big guns, that have as many young players coming through and generaly looking good enough to play a big part in the Villa's future
we wont get relegated because we have far better players than many clubs who will be fighting over the bottom 3 places in my view
and a decent manager who is prepared to trust them and give them there chance,
remember we outplayed Man Utd the other week with the same kids that people are now saying are relegation bound, a bit more time and experience and the results will follow
One decent 60 minute spell against an injury ravaged Man U isn't enough to prove that the good times are around the corner with Houllier in charge. He's looked hopelessly out of his depth since arriving. Villadawg is right, relegation is a very real possibility.
Weren't we injury ravaged also?
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Worrying thing is we are getting worse not better under him. 5 defeats in last 6 potentially 7 defeats in 8 come Saturday evening. Its simply not good enough and the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
Apparently he got dogs abuse on his way back to the dressing room at full time last night. The crowd is very much on the verge of turning against him in a big way and the Sunderland game could well bring massive pressure, especially if we do lose the next two, and could well be the tipping point.
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When we were attempting to reach the top four it was called investment not haemorrhaging money. Still, I'd hate to think the Villa were going to be responsible for losing the $5bn that old man Lerner left the family.
And yes you're right, there's not much glory and excitement in what we are doing.
That's just it isn't it? You think Randy should hand over every penny he and his family possess. Were you, by any chance, a Wolves supporter when Jack Hayward was in charge? Because you sound like one.
I'm not sure why you have to act like such a drama queen. Where have I ever said he should hand over every penny his family possess?
It isn't a question of wanting Lerner to invest all of his money in Aston Villa, it is a question of whether he is willing to invest enough to achieve HIS stated aim of competing at the top of the Premier League and winning trophies.
You seem to be of the opinion that because his investment so far is a big number, then that means he has invested enough. Well I'm afraid he hasn't invested enough. The Sky four have been investing for many more years than we have and they all have wage bills in excess of £100m per year. Spurs and Man City have spent more than DOUBLE on their squads during the period Lerner has been here, Spurs spent £119.3m in one single season, Man City more than that. Our total outlay on the squad in all the time Lerner has been owner is £140m.
Either Randy Lerner was a bit stupid in not understanding what it would take financially to achieve parity with the best teams in the league or it was never a serious intention. Sorry if that sounds harsh but what other explanation is there?
Do you honestly think that Lerner's investment in the playing squad is having a significant impact on his family's overall wealth? Should we be worried that he is going to end up broke if he continued investing in the squad at the level he has so far?
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I'm not sure why you have to act like such a drama queen. Where have I ever said he should hand over every penny his family possess?
It isn't a question of wanting Lerner to invest all of his money in Aston Villa, it is a question of whether he is willing to invest enough to achieve HIS stated aim of competing at the top of the Premier League and winning trophies.
You seem to be of the opinion that because his investment so far is a big number, then that means he has invested enough. Well I'm afraid he hasn't invested enough. The Sky four have been investing for many more years than we have and they all have wage bills in excess of £100m per year. Spurs and Man City have spent more than DOUBLE on their squads during the period Lerner has been here, Spurs spent £119.3m in one single season, Man City more than that. Our total outlay on the squad in all the time Lerner has been owner is £140m.
Either Randy Lerner was a bit stupid in not understanding what it would take financially to achieve parity with the best teams in the league or it was never a serious intention. Sorry if that sounds harsh but what other explanation is there?
Do you honestly think that Lerner's investment in the playing squad is having a significant impact on his family's overall wealth? Should we be worried that he is going to end up broke if he continued investing in the squad at the level he has so far?
You calling anyone a drama queen has to be the best line for a long while. Have you finished stamping your feet and insisting Spurs accounts are wrong yet? And it was you who brought up the Lerner family's alleged wealth so I can only assume you think it's all fair game in subsidising the Villa.
According to people with a bit more inside information than you, there's only one club who have invested more net than Villa since Randy took over. Whether that's true or not, Villa have spent enough to get into the Champions League at some stage in the past four seasons. I don't know what impact this has had on the Lerner family fortune - there you go again - but I do know that it's ever so easy to spend other peoples' money.
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Collins upfront was just a sign of desperation a lot of managers do when they are losing.
We did it with Dunney upfront for the last 5 minutes in the Arsenal game, Manure brought on Smalling and played him upfront against us and Mourinho did it with Huth a few times I seem to remember.
That said, he has to do better than last night otherwise his P45 will be arriving shortly.
A 4-4-2 selection was naive in the extreme against a 5 man Spurs midfield of excellent quality.
The game was too much for Hogg really and he would've been sent off if he hadn't have been withdrawn.
Really surprised NRC wasn't in there again, the sort of player you need to disrupt Spurs's passing with niggly fouls here and there.
A rather inglorious return to 4-4-2 all in all.
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No point in blaming Houllier and saying it's all his fault, he hasn't the chance to play his first choice of 11 yet... players are coming back from injury and we'll bringning in some additions hopefully, that's the time to judge.
Errmm, what about against Spurs, Petrov and NRC back from injury, so he plays Hogg and Delph. Houllier doesn't know his first choice 11. It is time to judge, our performances have been rubbish, the players are lacking confidence, and the man with the responsibility for getting results only looks happy when he is visiting Anfield.
I think Houllier has been told to sell all the high wage earners, that would explain the strange team selections.
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I always wanted to know what a drama queen looked like. Bit of a shock actually. I thought more Hugh Fernley Whittingstall than Dave Woodhall. There you go.
Martin O'Neill had the money and spent it badly. Harry Redknapp had the money and spent it well. Harry Redknapp would buy players quickly and decisively while Martin O'Neill pissanted about as my son so pithly put it buying players like they were Faberge eggs. I put it far less elegantly comparing him to what car dealers call a tyre kicker.
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I reckon the bust up with Dunne has had a big impact upon the dressing room
I imagine Dunne would be a big influence on the players down there, as would NRC and Carew
The bit I don't get is though, those 3 players would provide an excellenet spine to most teams, Carew scored what 16 goals last season ? if properly motivated and coached, we wouldn't be selling them but getting the best out of them whilst their on the payroll
have you not seen the pathetic lazyness of carew , a disgrace to the villa shirt and and cant wait to see him booted out anywhere!
Is that the same Carew that scored 16 Prem goals last term ???
Ten, actually.
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Didn't we enquire every 6 months on Boswinga, with the price constantly going up as he became a better player and ended up going to Chelski.
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everyone is saying that Chelsea's 'demise' is due to the sacking of Wilkins. Perhaps we should bring him in as team manager and kick GH upstairs.
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everyone is saying that Chelsea's 'demise' is due to the sacking of Wilkins. Perhaps we should bring him in as team manager and kick GH upstairs.
Isn't thought that Wilkins was sacked as he was earning too much money? If they can't afford to keep him, can we?
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Collins upfront was just a sign of desperation a lot of managers do when they are losing.
We did it with Dunney upfront for the last 5 minutes in the Arsenal game, Manure brought on Smalling and played him upfront against us and Mourinho did it with Huth a few times I seem to remember.
Zat Knight going up front against Arse two seasons ago yielded a crucial goal. It's not pretty or subtle but it's far from a bad idea. The man some are clamouring to be signed to replace Houllier spent most of a season with Chris Samba starting as a forward FFS.
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Houllier's job is to work what he has and what circumstances have thrown up - whether Randy twists or sticks. Apart from the loss of Milner - that same squad was achieving last season. If we wait until he works his magic with new signings - February, March, or will they all come good in April? - we could be in deep trouble. MON's signings weren't bad. On the whole (Young, Milner, Collins, the Dunne of last season, Carew for Baros, Petrov eventually) they were pretty fine; Sidwell, Beye and Davies didn't work but were hardly seen as poor signings when they arrived; arguably Downing (apart from yesterday) and Heskey have been successes after he left. I'm actually pleased the likes of Albrighton, Hogg and Lichaj are getting their chance, just worried other more established players are going backwards. The failure to "handle" Ireland - I'm sure the player takes his share of the blame but it makes the exit of Milner even harder to swallow that we've hardly had a game out of someone with obvious potential, if baggage.
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I'm not sure why you have to act like such a drama queen. Where have I ever said he should hand over every penny his family possess?
It isn't a question of wanting Lerner to invest all of his money in Aston Villa, it is a question of whether he is willing to invest enough to achieve HIS stated aim of competing at the top of the Premier League and winning trophies.
You seem to be of the opinion that because his investment so far is a big number, then that means he has invested enough. Well I'm afraid he hasn't invested enough. The Sky four have been investing for many more years than we have and they all have wage bills in excess of £100m per year. Spurs and Man City have spent more than DOUBLE on their squads during the period Lerner has been here, Spurs spent £119.3m in one single season, Man City more than that. Our total outlay on the squad in all the time Lerner has been owner is £140m.
Either Randy Lerner was a bit stupid in not understanding what it would take financially to achieve parity with the best teams in the league or it was never a serious intention. Sorry if that sounds harsh but what other explanation is there?
Do you honestly think that Lerner's investment in the playing squad is having a significant impact on his family's overall wealth? Should we be worried that he is going to end up broke if he continued investing in the squad at the level he has so far?
You calling anyone a drama queen has to be the best line for a long while. Have you finished stamping your feet and insisting Spurs accounts are wrong yet? And it was you who brought up the Lerner family's alleged wealth so I can only assume you think it's all fair game in subsidising the Villa.
According to people with a bit more inside information than you, there's only one club who have invested more net than Villa since Randy took over. Whether that's true or not, Villa have spent enough to get into the Champions League at some stage in the past four seasons. I don't know what impact this has had on the Lerner family fortune - there you go again - but I do know that it's ever so easy to spend other peoples' money.
As I've repeated countless times, I never said Spurs accounts were wrong. I said that the staff costs figure wasn't a like for like comparison, it's probably best not to reopen that can of worms even though Spurs mention in their latest accounts under contigent liabilities that they are in discussions with HMRC about "Image Rights" payments. Suffice to say Villa and Spurs have similar wage costs and the other five clubs I referred to all spend more than £100m on "staff costs" per year.
I mention the Lerner family wealth because they own 100% of the club and are the only potential source of external investment. I didn't suggest that additional investment should be in the form of subsidies, he might want to increase the debt that he has placed on the club and for which he earns a good rate of return in interest payments.
All of those other clubs have injected funds through debt or equity to strengthen their squad or improve facilities at various times. When Randy bought the club for the bargain basement price of £64m, it was understood by everyone that he would need to invest very significant sums in the playing squad to achieve his aim of competing at the top of the league. Had he bought one of the top five clubs at the time it would have cost him much,much more than he paid for Villa.
It isn't true that only one club has invested more net in the playing squad than Villa since Randy took over and its also a bit disingenuous to insist that our spending has been at a level that should ensure we improved from the squad O'Leary left to a position where we would be better than the traditional Sky 4. Man City have spent more and for the record, according to the Spurs financial accounts, they have spent £124.9m net since the 2006 summer transfer window. Perhaps the next time you're talking to these people with more inside information you could ask them to be a bit more specific.
What is it that makes you so affronted by discussions about the level of Randy Lerner's investment? Why do you behave as though I've thrown you a personal insult?
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I always wanted to know what a drama queen looked like. Bit of a shock actually. I thought more Hugh Fernley Whittingstall than Dave Woodhall. There you go.
Martin O'Neill had the money and spent it badly. Harry Redknapp had the money and spent it well. Harry Redknapp would buy players quickly and decisively while Martin O'Neill pissanted about as my son so pithly put it buying players like they were Faberge eggs. I put it far less elegantly comparing him to what car dealers call a tyre kicker.
Totally agree with your Harry R comment and thinking about most of MON's signings they were tyre kickers rather than Faberge eggs.
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This season we have had the spine of the team ripped out. Either by injury to midfield and forwards or by loss of form/minor injuries to centre of defence.
GH has had to cope with this the best he could by bringing in youngsters or trying to play players back into form or play them with minor injuries. The shallowness of MON's squad has been exposed totally this season, particulary with the loss of the player (Milner) that papered over a lot of the cracks last season.
People are saying that the manager should be motivating the players better as they are good players. In the PL today, you cannot carry so many inexperienced players, particularly against the top sides. I have said it before but look at what inexperienced players do off the ball when the opposition have the ball. The number of games when they have been caught ball watching and allowed players to run through to receive a ball unmarked. They will learn with experience as they look to be a talented crop of players.
The loss of Dunne from last seasons form has had a major impact on the team. Dropping him has meant Collins moving to the left side and playing two right sided defenders in the team. We are unbalanced.
People have commented on bringing Delph back as opposed to Petrov or Reo Coker. My opinion is that we needed somebody willing to push forward through the middle and that is why he brought Delph in.
I believe it unfair to judge GH on what has happened so far this season as he is trying to mend the wagon after the wheels had already fallen off without the tools to do it. He should be given this season and at least to Xmas next season to judge whether he can build a future for the club.
The playing structure has to be rebalanced with some young players, some developing players and some senior players so that the wage bill is sustainable. MON had lost sight of this as he became more and more short sighted. Thus leaving us with a top heavy squad of players.
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Collins is turning into the latest scapegoat, he always puts in the effort and looks as if he wants to win. Why not throw him forward our attack was powder puff. Dunne has been the biggest disppointment for me, i thought he was a true pro and led the defence superbly last saeson, he has let the club and himself down big time. One thing i did notice about Delph, he was always making space and running to position just the way that top players do and considering it was his first run for months he did well, Gabby should watch and learn.
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in fairness to Gabby, I don't think he's fully fit either. Every time he's returned to the line up he's had a set back. I've never known a season where so many of our key players have suffered injuries at the same time. Or one comes back, and another goes out. I mean Heskey's probably out again tomorrow just as Petrov, Delph and NRC are returning. Add to the chaos at the start of the season, you couldn't ask for the club to be more fragmented from a playing side. That can't have made it easy on the new management team since they were assembled.
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It's a pity some of our supporters don't fully understand.
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As I've repeated countless times, I never said Spurs accounts were wrong. I said that the staff costs figure wasn't a like for like comparison, it's probably best not to reopen that can of worms even though Spurs mention in their latest accounts under contigent liabilities that they are in discussions with HMRC about "Image Rights" payments. Suffice to say Villa and Spurs have similar wage costs and the other five clubs I referred to all spend more than £100m on "staff costs" per year.
I mention the Lerner family wealth because they own 100% of the club and are the only potential source of external investment. I didn't suggest that additional investment should be in the form of subsidies, he might want to increase the debt that he has placed on the club and for which he earns a good rate of return in interest payments.
All of those other clubs have injected funds through debt or equity to strengthen their squad or improve facilities at various times. When Randy bought the club for the bargain basement price of £64m, it was understood by everyone that he would need to invest very significant sums in the playing squad to achieve his aim of competing at the top of the league. Had he bought one of the top five clubs at the time it would have cost him much,much more than he paid for Villa.
It isn't true that only one club has invested more net in the playing squad than Villa since Randy took over and its also a bit disingenuous to insist that our spending has been at a level that should ensure we improved from the squad O'Leary left to a position where we would be better than the traditional Sky 4. Man City have spent more and for the record, according to the Spurs financial accounts, they have spent £124.9m net since the 2006 summer transfer window. Perhaps the next time you're talking to these people with more inside information you could ask them to be a bit more specific.
What is it that makes you so affronted by discussions about the level of Randy Lerner's investment? Why do you behave as though I've thrown you a personal insult?
You spent weeks arguing the toss about Spurs wages but they're not wrong. Sorry, they're "Not like for like". Strange how some figures are inaccurate, yet the ones that suit your argument are writ in stone.
Equally, it's strange how it was 'generally understood' that Randy would have to spend more when he took over when the general concensus as I remember it was that heavy spending wasn't the way forward. The bargain price paid is debatable as well, particularly as it was well over market value.
I don't get 'affronted' as you call it, even by your rather childish insults, but I do like to point out the inaccuracies of your odder theories.
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Always the same init. massive injuries - houllier's fault. Dunne out of shape - Houllier was sending him pies in the post in August. TBF i don't think he got the starting line up right against spurs but mebbe NRC isn't fit. i Just think sacking a guy who's had no chance of stamping his mark on the squad is wrong - he's been playing catch-up since he arrived. Whatever happens, i take a very dim view of some of the senior player's contributions this season, whether they dislike the new manager or not. Even if GH got the push and someone else got them performing i'd want them out now.
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Having driven up from London on Sunday as I do for all matches, the topic of conversation on the way home was how funny it was watching bits of snow falling from the top of the roof in the Trinity down onto the dugout, at times narrowly missing McAllister, Redknapp or Joe Jordan.
I mention this as to spend the hour and a half getting depressed by mugging off Houllier and Pires would only take me back to the DO'L era so I'm putting a brave face on it all.
I'm not really bothered if there's snow on the roof at Eastlands as this one's a tad too far for me for a night match - however with Chelsea coming up soon I'll need some entertainment of the snow falling variety to keep me positive.
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He's theWrong man for the job Martin jol is the man we need I would give him the transfer window to see if he can do it
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I have mentioned this before, after the noses home game I think. From what I see, he is trying to get the existing players to play a different style of football. A style in which the players we have are incapable of playing. He wants us to keep possession of the ball in all areas of the pitch. Our defence last season, were under the instructions, that you mark your men from set peices, and clear your lines at the earliest opportunity also in open play. This was effective, as we had one of the best defences in the league, but it at times, brought us under more pressure, because the ball retention was poor. The ball would be cleared to safety in any old direction, and the rest of the team would chase the ball. The ball bypassed our midfield in general.
This season, it appears the defence has been instructed totally differently. From set peices, we seem to be marking zonally (see Nasri's goal, and Spurs tried it too, nobody picking the men up on the edge) In open play, they seem like they have been asked to get the ball down, and pass the ball more and retain possession. This has resulted i several mistakes, and I think is why we have been leaking goals.
We have started every game, apart from Spurs, with one striker, unless im mistaken. This is ok if you have players playing behind any style of striker, who pass and move quickly, and support the striker in attacks. Our players are like statues in possession. Watch the Spurs game again, and see how much better they moved the ball, and wanted it back straight away. None of our players appeared to want the ball and be inventive with it. It seemed as soon as someone had it, the pass to another player has to be inch perfect every time, because everone was standing still. I have played a bit before, and as far as im concerened, its easier to pass a ball to someone who is moving for you, than standing there like a statue. They are too easily marked for a start.
Im getting sick and tired of people going on about how our football has improved since last season. It hasn't. We are not playing pass and move football, we are playing passing football, and retaining possesion in ineffective areas of the pitch. The best football we have played this season is when we have been more direct, and played in the style the players are familiar with. In my opinion, he should have stuck with what we knew. I like how he has rotated the players, but we could have got points on the board by playing the high intensity stuff we were playing last year, and he should have waited until next week to change the style gradually, whilst bringing in his own players that can do the stuff the existing ones cant.
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Glasses. that is one of the best and most pertinent posts I have ever read on here. What you describe as passing to statues is what I call the NRC syndrome. Stand still and the opponent coming at you at pace either robs you or forces a bad pass.
Go to the top of the class.
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Cheers Brian. Perhaps I have a soft spot for NRC, but I think its unfair to single him out. He wasnt even on the pitch against Spurs. It has been the same for years. I should have added to my post, that the only player I see in our squad at the moment, who wants the ball at every opportunity, and wants to try something inventive, is Ashley Young. A player who a good few feel will be a good thing if we sell him. Ive made my feelings perfectly clear on the transfer thread about this, and I feel I was vindicated against Spurs. The thought of a team without players like him scares the shit out of me.
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Aye. Selling Young in January would be really really daft IMO.
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Always the same init. massive injuries - houllier's fault. Dunne out of shape - Houllier was sending him pies in the post in August. TBF i don't think he got the starting line up right against spurs but mebbe NRC isn't fit. i Just think sacking a guy who's had no chance of stamping his mark on the squad is wrong - he's been playing catch-up Always the same init. massive injuries - houllier's fault. Dunne out of shape - Houllier was sending him pies in the post in August. TBF i don't think he got the starting line up right against spurs but mebbe NRC isn't fit. i Just think sacking a guy who's had no chance of stamping his mark on the squad is wrong - he's been playing catch-up since he arrived. Whatever happens, i take a very dim view of some of the senior player's contributions this season, whether they dislike the new manager or not. Even if GH got the push and someone else got them performing i'd want them out now.
I agree, and they did fuck all for supposed player's choice K Mac.
Houllier is trying to change they way we play football in a fundamental way. I think we all want us to play a more current and attractive form of the game, but i just feel the process of going backwards before we go forwards is harder than I thought.
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Good post, Glasses.
In a nutshell, I think what you're saying is Houllier is trying to impose on a squad of players who were bought and coached to do one job, a style of play that they are perhaps incapable of achieving. In other walk of life, trying to get your employees to perform in a particular way when they haven't got the necessary skills would be considered piss-poor management.
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mebbe topdeck but you'd have to say if you have a squad that someone's paid 50-60+m for, the least you'd expect is they know how to pass.
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it's not knowing how to pass, it's being out-passed
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Well done Glasses,you got it spot on. Until he gets in players who are comfortable in possesion,we're not gonna be able to change our style that much. If he gets in a couple of young French lads this will help as they have that culture. At the minute we have Bannan who can do that,thats why the decision to play Hogg and Delph was a strange one the other day.
Our best performance of the season was the Utd game,and we played a high tempo of closing them down,and attacking at pace out wide with Ash,Gab and Marc,like we did at our best under M'ON.
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it's not knowing how to pass, it's being out-passed
dunno. looking at our squad there are players who can cope with the ball on the floor. Young, Downing, some of the kids, even Heskey. Even someone like NRC who's not renowned for his passing, played in the correct formation, ie winning the ball and giving it to someone good could contribute. He did that very well in his first season with us. you don't need a team full of superb passers to play a passing game
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The lack of movement off the ball is also a concern for me.
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I'm fully behind Houllier, but the selection of Pires against Arsenal, and Delph the other day does worry me a little. I don't think those kind of risks are really necessary when we find ourselves up against the wall in terms of league postion.
They're the kind of decisions I'd expect of a young manager struggling to cope with pressure, not someone with the experience of Houllier.
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gotta say delpth has never particuarly impressed me. I don't think he's any better than some of our youngsters if i'm honest and what we paid for him seemed steep in the extreme. However, its hardly fair to judge him on 1 game back from a serious injury. Agree it was a very odd decision though to play him against spurs
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I know this should be about Houllier but would we be in this position if Randy had spent some Pounds when it mattered on getting or retaining certain players re:Milner.
Randy did - he bought Ireland ....
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The reality is we are far from the sort of club who can keep players wanted by clubs with more attractions.
Throwing cash at the likes of such players would not work given a chance of joining a club with more chance of trophies they will.
Randy via Mon spent at least 140 mill on players, many of whom spent more time in the stands than on the pitch, even the most benevelent owners want some sort of return, wasting more to keep the odd player is pure idiocy and using such as a whipping stick disengenuous to the efforts hes made.
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The truth is Houliier might be a shit manager. However, with everything that has happened with injuries and sulking players since he took over we're not in a position to judge.
We were nowhere near as bad against Spurs as some have tried to pretend, we made plenty of chances but our old failings of lack of a killer instict and defensive frailties undid us. We're not that far away from being a good team.
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Yes we have had loads of injuries. But playing Hogg and Delph is plain stupid. Okay if there was few games to go at the end of the season and we are safe to stay up. But we are in free fall. I now have real doubts about GH.
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I'm fully behind Houllier, but the selection of Pires against Arsenal, and Delph the other day does worry me a little. I don't think those kind of risks are really necessary when we find ourselves up against the wall in terms of league postion.
They're the kind of decisions I'd expect of a young manager struggling to cope with pressure, not someone with the experience of Houllier.
Considering that he played quite well it is somewhat unfair to single him out. I'd be more worried by the use of 4-4-2 which allowed Spurs to play through us with very little actual gain in an attacking sense considering how poor Gabby was and has been. I'd have brought in NRC for Gabby and tried to stop the Spurs tide. For me Delph should be our first choice midfielder alongside Petrov and NRC.
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It was surprising to see Delph on the teamsheet. With hindsight though, I thought he was one of our better players on the night.
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Why are we so unmotivated again...
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i would let him bring hot french players and get rid of few players then fire him and give our new manager better players and no primma donnas
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Time to say au revoir to GH I'm afraid. The rest of the season is a mission to stay up...as much as I hate to say it, we need someone like Fat Sam to help us grind out results and stay up. Either the players don't want to play for GH or they aren't good enough for his style of play...either way, he's got to go now before it's too late.
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The truth is Houliier might be a shit manager. However, with everything that has happened with injuries and sulking players since he took over we're not in a position to judge.
We were nowhere near as bad against Spurs as some have tried to pretend, we made plenty of chances but our old failings of lack of a killer instict and defensive frailties undid us. We're not that far away from being a good team.
You're right, of course, about injuries etc.
But his story has been written, and it doesn't end well. It's not the modern way to allow him to overcome this start.
My problem is that we seem to be getting worse, rather than better, with each day in his charge. Allow him a window? He's had Sept-Jan to manage what he had and he's made a resounding failure of it.
I don't think we need to buy Bruno Cheyrou before we end it, do we?
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Why aren't they trying!! He has to go
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I hold up my hands and accept i was wrong in saying houllier could get it right - we are a shambles and today were awful - decide now randy to appoint jol and give him the money to spend in jan or we are going down- houllier has clearly lost the dressing room and chants from away fans of " fuck off houllier "show how far things have slipped!
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I'd take Big Fat Sam at the moment at least he may get the players to compete, can't see GH giving the players a rollocking he looks like a frail old man who's growing a worry hunch
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We are a shambles. Getting worse by the game.
Bye, bye GH.
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I'd take Big Fat Sam at the moment at least he may get the players to compete, can't see GH giving the players a rollocking he looks like a frail old man who's growing a worry hunch
A few months ago I'd say you were barking.
But in a lesser of two evils kinda way the idea has merit.
Christ, are we really that bad.
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Compromise, GH can stay if he gets rid of GM!
The team is an absolute shambles!
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I'd take Barry Fry I'm getting that desperate. Rarely have I seen such an unmotivated shower as our current squad of players.
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I think we should ask Sir Graham Taylor, Sir Dennis Mortimer and Ron Atkinson to help Randy to pick the next manager together.
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SGT was consulted on the GH appointment.
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Would you give him 20m to spend?
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NO!
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I'd take Big Fat Sam at the moment at least he may get the players to compete, can't see GH giving the players a rollocking he looks like a frail old man who's growing a worry hunch
A few months ago I'd say you were barking.
But in a lesser of two evils kinda way the idea has merit.
Christ, are we really that bad.
Yep! didn't tell my 6 year old the result
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Can I change my mind on that whole 'give him the rest of the season' option after today's' total and utter shambles?
Go Gerard and go immediately
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SGT was consulted on the GH appointment.
They asked his advice and then ignored him.
GT wanted a director of football with Kevin Mac reporting into him.
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i'm shitting myself,
not because we might get relegated, i can handle that,
what i cant handle is getting rid of Houllier and replacing him with Sam Alladyce
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He's gotta go. He was always going to find it hard to recover from his Liverpool pr disaster, but rather than turn things around it's just gone from bad to worse on the pitch ever since.
Randy, please be big enough to admit that this appointment has been a disaster and cut your losses before it's too late. And get fucking Ian Holloway.
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I wouldn't want Allardyce, but he'd be better than Houllier.
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I'd take Big Fat Sam at the moment at least he may get the players to compete, can't see GH giving the players a rollocking he looks like a frail old man who's growing a worry hunch
A few months ago I'd say you were barking.
But in a lesser of two evils kinda way the idea has merit.
Christ, are we really that bad.
It's not THAT bad that we'd have to employ Allardyce.
His tactics would make MON's look like total football.
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
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I wouldn't want Allardyce, but he'd be better than Houllier.
no chance, stands for everything i hate about football, would be like selling your footballing soul to the devil
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He also keeps teams in the Premier League....
We sold our soul to Sky and Murdoch years ago.
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Dowie and Shearer?
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keep him till the end of the season? and what exactly? Get him out before its too late
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He also keeps teams in the Premier League....
We sold our soul to Sky and Murdoch years ago.
i dont give a flying toss about the prem league mate, i would obviously rather be in it than not, but not with alladyce,.
rather go down than have him
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He's just been on the radio. He's such a motivated talker isnt he?? Such a motivator!!!
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
Although i like Holloway he ain't the way forward leave him where he is, but he obviously likes us as he played his weaker team that we just scraped a win against
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him
Entertainment.
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This is a hard-nosed business decision. No room for "give him the window" or "give him to the end of the season".
We'll be down by then. Look at the next half dozen games and tell me where we're going to get any points.
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If Houllier is our manager at the end of the season i'd be amazed if we were still a premier league team.
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This is a hard-nosed business decision. No room for "give him the window" or "give him to the end of the season".
We'll be down by then. Look at the next half dozen games and tell me where we're going to get any points.
well houllier has a plan! he just said it on the radio.... "we have the day off and we try and play better next time"
safe hands! :-\
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Sack him now before he wastes any money.
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If he were to get the boot or walk, then I would offer a lot of money and try to get Coyle. Bigger club so would come, and very decent manager by the seems of it.
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Not sure if it's houllier, more like it's McAllister. A Coventry fan told me he completely F"*^ed up cov by his tactics and he would do the same to us. Good player but no coach or Assistant manager.
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Randy will not sack Houllier.
Does Randy actually have a clue about football?
He came in and let Oneil run the show, then thought Martin weren't the man,
Then thought he could save a few bob by not appointing a manager till the window shut.
Then he said he wouldn't approach a manager in a job,
Then appointed Houllier who hasn't managed in England for 6 years.
Do I think Houllier will come good? Yes
If I were Randy would I sack him and get Jol? Yes
So what do we do?
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Randy will not sack Houllier.
Does Randy actually have a clue about football?
He came in and let Oneil run the show, then thought Martin weren't the man,
Then thought he could save a few bob by not appointing a manager till the window shut.
Then he said he wouldn't approach a manager in a job,
Then appointed Houllier who hasn't managed in England for 6 years.
Do I think Houllier will come good? Yes
If I were Randy would I sack him and get Jol? Yes
So what do we do?
that may take the biscuit as the most "all over place" post of all time. You criticise Randy for the process and hiring Houllier. You think he'll come good, yet you'd trust Randy to fire him and get Jol.
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After what i have just seen on Sky
No likeability, No passion, No idea, Sorry your time has come to say goodbye GH
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
Coyle on the other hand has done well at every team he's managed. He's unlikely to "achieve" much at Bolton but he certainly manages to combine good football AND a motivated team, something neither MON or Houllier could/can do. You could argue Ron Saunders never achieved anything before joining Villa, apart from losing a couple of League Cup finals.
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
Coyle on the other hand has done well at every team he's managed. He's unlikely to "achieve" much at Bolton but he certainly manages to combine good football AND a motivated team, something neither MON or Houllier could/can do. You could argue Ron Saunders never achieved anything before joining Villa, apart from losing a couple of League Cup finals.
I'm not convinced Mark.
It seems like a flavour of the month choice to me.
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After what i have just seen on Sky
No likeability, No passion, No idea, Sorry your time has come to say goodbye GH
Agreed, the very least you'd expect to see after a display like that is a bit of anger, a bit of fire in the belly.
He really is tactically poor, uninspiring, passionless, dull and blatantly not worthy of being our manager.
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
That could have been what MON thought and decided to go
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Randy will not sack Houllier.
Does Randy actually have a clue about football?
He came in and let Oneil run the show, then thought Martin weren't the man,
Then thought he could save a few bob by not appointing a manager till the window shut.
Then he said he wouldn't approach a manager in a job,
Then appointed Houllier who hasn't managed in England for 6 years.
Do I think Houllier will come good? Yes
If I were Randy would I sack him and get Jol? Yes
So what do we do?
that may take the biscuit as the most "all over place" post of all time. You criticise Randy for the process and hiring Houllier. You think he'll come good, yet you'd trust Randy to fire him and get Jol.
That's the point!
We are all over the place and Randy obviously doesn't quite know what too do going on what he has done thus far.
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I just heard him on WM, I switched off, "were low on confidence"
There is no passion its terrible
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We are paying his pension top up, he is a man out of his time, he is passionless but more so clueless. Aston Villa need a better manager than this I just hope that Randy acts before it is too late.
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No thanks to Coyle or Allardyce. Who though is another matter.
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
That could have been what MON thought and decided to go
OR
Randy said your not wasting anoter £20m on shite and he walked?
No-one can criticize Learner for appointing Houllier as he was the best at the time.
I am worried though big style..Chelsea away next
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Double post
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
Coyle on the other hand has done well at every team he's managed. He's unlikely to "achieve" much at Bolton but he certainly manages to combine good football AND a motivated team, something neither MON or Houllier could/can do. You could argue Ron Saunders never achieved anything before joining Villa, apart from losing a couple of League Cup finals.
I'm not convinced Mark.
It seems like a flavour of the month choice to me.
I think there's a lot more to him than that. He's completely changed the way Bolton play. What he doesn't have is experience in the top end of the transfer market and I very much doubt he has a scouting network much bigger than MON's. He does appear to grow with every job he takes. We could do a lot worse. I'm not saying I want him but he'd be one to have on the list.
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Double post
Yes true, but at the moment i'm as depressed as the D'OL time,
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I don't see the point in getting rid of Houllier now, we need to give him January to get rid of the deadwood, trouble makers and those that think they are to good for us.
If we get a new manager it will take him time to work out what we now know and that is alot of players are past it, not good enough and don't care, but also we have some very very good young players in Lichaj, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph.
I am as disappointed as anyone with results and lack of passion but think we need to get behind the team and manager and see where we are at the end of the season.
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I am worried though bug style..Chelsea away next
Yeah worried bug style just about sums it up - like a beetle about to be crushed under a great big boot.
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I think said Manager lost it at the Liverpool lovefest.
He's lost the fans and the dressing room.
If I owned Aston Villa I'd appoint Allardyce for the last half of the season as I think he'd keep us up , then crack on from there.
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I don't see the point in getting rid of Houllier now, we need to give him January to get rid of the deadwood, trouble makers and those that think they are to good for us.
If we get a new manager it will take him time to work out what we now know and that is alot of players are past it, not good enough and don't care, but also we have some very very good young players in Lichaj, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph.
I am as disappointed as anyone with results and lack of passion but think we need to get behind the team and manager and see where we are at the end of the season.
I admire your positivity and optimism but fear 'The Championship' is where we will be at the end of the season if we carry on with Houllier...
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
That could have been what MON thought and decided to go
OR
Randy said your not wasting anoter £20m on shite and he walked?
No-one can criticize Learner for appointing Houllier as he was the best at the time.
I am worried though big style..Chelsea away next
I'm sorry that's utter bollox,
The best available my arse!
Randy showed no balls or football sense by declaring that he won't approach anybody in a job. We should have gone for the best man, not the best man available!
Randy is a good owner, but is getting his fingers burnt for being naive and not recruiting a football man to assist him.
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Not sure if it's houllier, more like it's McAllister. A Coventry fan told me he completely F"*^ed up cov by his tactics and he would do the same to us. Good player but no coach or Assistant manager.
It looks like a combination of all of them. I must say that I was willing to give Houllier the benefit of the doubt but my opinions of him have changed very quickly. My reasons being:
1. There was no bounce when he arrived. Normally players make an effort to impress a new manager but after Houllier's appointment there seemed to be little improvement. apart from Heskey.
2. When behind at half time, we have not come out for the second half with a have-a-go performance. Today was a typical example of being down 3-0 but coming out after the break with no apparent plan to get back into the game.
3. Some team selections have been bizarre and on a par with MON.
4. If we were in a transition between MON's direct style and fantastic, flowing football then there may be a case for giving them time but it's not apparent what is going on or what they are trying to achieve.
5. Player morale is clearly atrocious and we don't even seem to have many positives to talk about.
6. Despite having a dreadful injury crisis, our main problems so far have been with experienced players seeming to be disorganised. Rather than improving the quality of our play, the whole set up looks to be a real shambles.
7. Houllier has shown that he cannot get much out of the players that are fit.
I hate to call for people to be sacked, but we need to cut our losses and save what's left of a difficult season. The plain fact is that under Houllier we have got 13 points from 14 games in a relatively poor Premiership and that cannot be allowed to go on.
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I don't see the point in getting rid of Houllier now, we need to give him January to get rid of the deadwood, trouble makers and those that think they are to good for us.
If we get a new manager it will take him time to work out what we now know and that is alot of players are past it, not good enough and don't care, but also we have some very very good young players in Lichaj, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph.
I am as disappointed as anyone with results and lack of passion but think we need to get behind the team and manager and see where we are at the end of the season.
Hadley welcome to H&V, welcome to the Championship too........
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
That could have been what MON thought and decided to go
OR
Randy said your not wasting anoter £20m on shite and he walked?
No-one can criticize Learner for appointing Houllier as he was the best at the time.
I am worried though big style..Chelsea away next
Really? So we are not allowed to at least enquire about managers at other clubs. Other teams do it
Early in the season we wasn't the massive shambles we are now, and would have been an attractive proposition for quite a few decent managers.
Don't get me wrong, Randy has done a massive amount of good for this club.
Appointing Houllier though has turned into a HUGE mistake.
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I don't see the point in getting rid of Houllier now, we need to give him January to get rid of the deadwood, trouble makers and those that think they are to good for us.
If we get a new manager it will take him time to work out what we now know and that is alot of players are past it, not good enough and don't care, but also we have some very very good young players in Lichaj, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph.
I am as disappointed as anyone with results and lack of passion but think we need to get behind the team and manager and see where we are at the end of the season.
I admire your positivity and optimism but fear 'The Championship' is where we will be at the end of the season if we carry on with Houllier...
Don't get me wrong I am abit fearful of that, but without saying we are to good to go down, we aren't that bad. Lets just see what January brings I think it will surprise a few people and show the Chairman ambition and commitment is still there.
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If we'd have got Hughes that would be one side above us....
Anyway - anyone notice Sid distancing himself from GH and McAllister on the bench last couple of days?
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I hate to call for people to be sacked, but we need to cut our losses and save what's left of a difficult season. The plain fact is that under Houllier we have got 13 points from 14 games in a relatively poor Premiership and that cannot be allowed to go on.
This. Just looking at the table right now makes me shudder - only Wolves (who are surely doomed) look worse than we are, and even that's a close call.
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And get fucking Ian Holloway.
Christ no!
On what basis would you want him, or Owen Coyle?
They've achieved nothing yet and Holloway managed to send Leicester down, despite generous transfer funds.
Coyle on the other hand has done well at every team he's managed. He's unlikely to "achieve" much at Bolton but he certainly manages to combine good football AND a motivated team, something neither MON or Houllier could/can do. You could argue Ron Saunders never achieved anything before joining Villa, apart from losing a couple of League Cup finals.
I'm not convinced Mark.
It seems like a flavour of the month choice to me.
I think there's a lot more to him than that. He's completely changed the way Bolton play. What he doesn't have is experience in the top end of the transfer market and I very much doubt he has a scouting network much bigger than MON's. He does appear to grow with every job he takes. We could do a lot worse. I'm not saying I want him but he'd be one to have on the list.
He'd be one of a few to keep an eye on.
I'd also include Di Matteo and Michael Laudrup in that bracket. But the problem is if we did make an appointment in the near future we'd need a bloke capable of hitting the ground running.
Coyle took over a struggling Bolton last year so I guess that's another tick in the box. For the likes of Di Matteo, Laudrup and even Jol I'm not entirely convinced they'd be the the blokes to bring in in a crisis, more the type who would need a full pre season and time to sign their own players to have the desired effect.
You could argue that Houllier needs the same and under normal circumstances I'd agree. But sometimes a performance can be so bad, so drastically below expectations that you need to take action. By that I mean performance of the manager obviously, rather than individual team performances. Though they have been shit too.
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I am still going to back him. I think the team needs fresh blood. There has been no outward investment in 2010 by Randy. However, I am sure Randy will give him funds in January.
I think if GH can get two or three players in. One CB, one CM and a striker who all understand his way of playing. I think it will freshen the team and put a boot up the likes of Collins, Agbonlahor etc.
How many points were people expecting out of the games against Man City (A), Spurs (H), WBA (H), L'Pool (A), Arsenal (H), Blackburn (A) and Man U (H). I would have expected 3 or 4 points. A win v West Brom and maybe a point at B'burn. And we got 4 points.
That is a tough run of games. As a flip side of that we have some winnable games to come through Jan, Feb and March.
A good indicator is to do the BBC predictor. I would be shocked if anyone seriously has us in the bottom 3. I get us in 7th on 51 points. 20 points away from L'pool in 6th and teams being relegated on 34 points.
I think we will easily be fine. The problem with GH is that at best when he joined only about 60% of the fans thought he was the right guy and that drops when people get itchy feet as we lose...BUT look at the games we have had Lets all get behind this guy for a change and see where we are at the end of the season!
Up the villa!
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Sky said we haven't taken a single point this season from a game in which we have gone behind in-that is truly frightening and suggests total lack of fight and motivation.
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This clown is going to take us down, get rid now this is the final straw.
I hate the thought of Allardyce, but at least we'd be instantly more organised with none of the petty fall-outs Houllier has brought to the club, get Carew, Dunne, maybe even Ireland playing for us instead of doing us no good sitting at home counting their money.
Maybe even Houghton as a coach ?
Did'nt think I'd get this desperate but we are in need of some action from our owner, and quick.
We are going down if this is'nt sorted quickly.
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A good indicator is to do the BBC predictor. I would be shocked if anyone seriously has us in the bottom 3. I get us in 7th on 51 points. 20 points away from L'pool in 6th and teams being relegated on 34 points.
Scuse me while I go change my pants.
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How the fuck did we allow Mcallister anywhere near first team coach role!!??
He failed pathetically at Cov and Boro and Leeds so how was he ever qualified to do the villa job?
As for Houllier he still thinks it's the early 90s, I hate seeing his passionless face and motionless body on our bench
He has to go now before it's too late
Randy get some balls and do it
And where the fuck is that general bloke now the wheels are off ?
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GH looked frozen the other night. Just sat there on the bench, looking glum.
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Lerner / Krulak
Wake up, smell the coffee
Get rid of this baffoon and his wing man now
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West ham winning so we could easily be in the bottom 2 on new years day- what a total cock up in the 5th year or randy's grand plan- I would like to hear mons reason for leaving as I don't think randy deserves all the plaudits he gets on here- i think his and mons first 3 years were good but something badly went wrong- was it the credit crunch or has randy lost belief in the top 4 dream?
Time to act mr Lerner - we need a new manager and fast !
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A good indicator is to do the BBC predictor. I would be shocked if anyone seriously has us in the bottom 3. I get us in 7th on 51 points. 20 points away from L'pool in 6th and teams being relegated on 34 points.
Scuse me while I go change my pants.
Did you honestly have us in the bottom 3?
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West ham winning so we could easily be in the bottom 2 on new years day- what a total cock up in the 5th year or randy's grand plan- I would like to hear mons reason for leaving as I don't think randy deserves all the plaudits he gets on here- i think his and mons first 3 years were good but something badly went wrong- was it the credit crunch or has randy lost belief in the top 4 dream?
Time to act mr Lerner - we need a new manager and fast !
West Ham drawing.
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I don't see the point in getting rid of Houllier now, we need to give him January to get rid of the deadwood, trouble makers and those that think they are to good for us.
If we get a new manager it will take him time to work out what we now know and that is alot of players are past it, not good enough and don't care, but also we have some very very good young players in Lichaj, Bannan, Albrighton, Clark and Delph.
I am as disappointed as anyone with results and lack of passion but think we need to get behind the team and manager and see where we are at the end of the season.
I admire your positivity and optimism but fear 'The Championship' is where we will be at the end of the season if we carry on with Houllier...
Don't get me wrong I am abit fearful of that, but without saying we are to good to go down, we aren't that bad. Lets just see what January brings I think it will surprise a few people and show the Chairman ambition and commitment is still there.
Its all very well rattling on about what a collection of good young players we have; i do it myself, but in truth We are not winning games
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Not sure if it's houllier, more like it's McAllister. A Coventry fan told me he completely F"*^ed up cov by his tactics and he would do the same to us. Good player but no coach or Assistant manager.
It looks like a combination of all of them. I must say that I was willing to give Houllier the benefit of the doubt but my opinions of him have changed very quickly. My reasons being:
1. There was no bounce when he arrived. Normally players make an effort to impress a new manager but after Houllier's appointment there seemed to be little improvement. apart from Heskey.
2. When behind at half time, we have not come out for the second half with a have-a-go performance. Today was a typical example of being down 3-0 but coming out after the break with no apparent plan to get back into the game.
3. Some team selections have been bizarre and on a par with MON.
4. If we were in a transition between MON's direct style and fantastic, flowing football then there may be a case for giving them time but it's not apparent what is going on or what they are trying to achieve.
5. Player morale is clearly atrocious and we don't even seem to have many positives to talk about.
6. Despite having a dreadful injury crisis, our main problems so far have been with experienced players seeming to be disorganised. Rather than improving the quality of our play, the whole set up looks to be a real shambles.
7. Houllier has shown that he cannot get much out of the players that are fit.
I hate to call for people to be sacked, but we need to cut our losses and save what's left of a difficult season. The plain fact is that under Houllier we have got 13 points from 14 games in a relatively poor Premiership and that cannot be allowed to go on.
Good post.
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i cant believe people on here wishing for sam Alladyce actually wanting him !!
'oh he will be our savoiur, our hero. keep us in the promised land of the prem'
he plays shit football, absolute shit, not even Newcastle fans could put up with him, but some of us panicky lot actually want him,
we wont go down with Houllier or Alladyce, but we will be in a very very bad place with big sam
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A good indicator is to do the BBC predictor. I would be shocked if anyone seriously has us in the bottom 3. I get us in 7th on 51 points. 20 points away from L'pool in 6th and teams being relegated on 34 points.
A good indicator is to do the BBC predictor. I would be shocked if anyone seriously has us in the bottom 3. I get us in 7th on 51 points. 20 points away from L'pool in 6th and teams being relegated on 34 points.
Scuse me while I go change my pants.
Did you honestly have us in the bottom 3?
Well I sure don't see us finishing 7th FFS! Forget your silly prediction games Nostrodamus, look at the table and the teams that are around us and ask yourself in all honesty how many of them are worse than us. West Ham are picking up, Fulham had a good away win today, Blues have 2 games in hand and have more fight about them and a manger with some passion and tactical nous. Frankly I think there's only Wolves that look worse than us right now, and I don't see Houllier being capable of turning us around. The players need a confidence and morale boost and a sense of direction which they haven't had all season, and they'll only get that from someone else now as far as I can see.
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During the shambolic period that was Billy McNeill at least the guy whilst incompetent showed some passion
In Houllier and McAllister there is zero
They're lik rabbitts caught in the headlights or startled deer
They've turned the club we all love into an embarrassment
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i cant believe people on here wishing for sam Alladyce actually wanting him !!
'oh he will be our savoiur, our hero. keep us in the promised land of the prem'
he plays shit football, absolute shit, not even Newcastle fans could put up with him, but some of us panicky lot actually want him,
we wont go down with Houllier or Alladyce, but we will be in a very very bad place with big sam
His Blackburn team played some good stuff against us in the CCSF at Villa Park, and at least he's current he has that Prem knowhow that GH has lost whilst being away from the Prem for 5 years, believe me i don't know the answers but i know that we cannot continue like this
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Got to go for me.
He's meant to be an experienced manager, why then isn't he managing the players he has?
If it's true that these players can only play kick and rush football then why doesn't he just play that system? It's a results business and all that, we need results.
What was that interview on Sky all about? Looked like he was going to cry. If he hasn't got any passion why should the fecking players? Why should he get our passion and support when he can't show it for our club.
What an absolute mess we are in.
Get Jol in and try and get him to persuade Hughton to be his assistant (something Houllier couldn't do with his first two choices)
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I still can't believe I'm hearing the refrain "we won't go down." Are people crossing fingers and touching wood as they say it?
We're losing matches for fun, we're conceding goals and never looking like pulling them back, and the much touted Get Out of Jail card, i.e. We'll be all right when the injured players come back, is looking what I always thought it was: a straw to clutch to.
There is something rotten in this appointment. We didn't even have the dead-cat bounce that clubs in dire straits usually have with a new manager. F*ck me, even the worst manager in my Villa-supporting career - Billy McNeill - managed to improve on what had gone before in his first half a dozen games or so.
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Where the fuck is Carew?
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I'd go
Hughes
Jol
KMac/Sid
El tel
Fat Sam
In that order
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Where the fuck is Carew?
He prefers Baros
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Kmac would definately take us down- if the decision to sack houllier is made we need to annouce an immediate appointment- jol is available !
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Where the fuck is Carew?
On his way to the hole that is West Bromwich?
Apologies to any Villa fans residing there.
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i cant believe people on here wishing for sam Alladyce actually wanting him !!
'oh he will be our savoiur, our hero. keep us in the promised land of the prem'
he plays shit football, absolute shit, not even Newcastle fans could put up with him, but some of us panicky lot actually want him,
we wont go down with Houllier or Alladyce, but we will be in a very very bad place with big sam
His Blackburn team played some good stuff against us in the CCSF at Villa Park, and at least he's current he has that Prem knowhow that GH has lost whilst being away from the Prem for 5 years, believe me i don't know the answers but i know that we cannot continue like this
change the manager, fine, as long as its not Alladyce/Pulis they are not Villa managers
Alladyce's team lost 7-1 to Man Utd last month, and theres guys on here saying he'd get the defence organised !! thats with a team he's crafted and modeled as his own.
unlike Houllier who hasnt even seen in a transfer window and has been here 5 minuets in footballing terms
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I'd go
Hughes
Jol
KMac/Sid
El tel
Fat Sam
In that order
Having read your post and the one in another thread saying we should go for Allardyce - But try to make him play a passing game - in quick succession I am now attempting to fashion a noose from an old tie.
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There is a rumour going around that GED did not travel back with the players on the coach and was with Lerner? anyone heard this?
also on WM GED publically saying Lichaj had a nightmare game, sure that will boost the young lads confidence!!
Houllier Out!
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i cant believe people on here wishing for sam Alladyce actually wanting him !!
'oh he will be our savoiur, our hero. keep us in the promised land of the prem'
he plays shit football, absolute shit, not even Newcastle fans could put up with him, but some of us panicky lot actually want him,
we wont go down with Houllier or Alladyce, but we will be in a very very bad place with big sam
His Blackburn team played some good stuff against us in the CCSF at Villa Park, and at least he's current he has that Prem knowhow that GH has lost whilst being away from the Prem for 5 years, believe me i don't know the answers but i know that we cannot continue like this
change the manager, fine, as long as its not Alladyce/Pulis they are not Villa managers
Alladyce's team lost 7-1 to Man Utd last month, and theres guys on here saying he'd get the defence organised !! thats with a team he's crafted and modeled as his own.
unlike Houllier who hasnt even seen in a transfer window and has been here 5 minuets in footballing terms
Good point. Amazing how low we've sunk under Houllier in those 5 minutes.
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Back or Sack? (no crack).
This is possibly the toughest moment of Lerner's time at Villa.
I think over the next day or two he has a massive decision to make.
Back or Sack?
I've supported everyone who has ever wore the colours of Villa.
But I'm running out of time with Houllier, the longer it goes on, the more I just think it's not going to work.
Back? Sack?
Lerner either has to pump in £50m(+ -) or sack him, and get someone else in.
Back the manager? or sack him? & get someone else in and back them.
I'd love to know what he's thinking.
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There is a rumour going around that GED did not travel back with the players on the coach and was with Lerner? anyone heard this?
also on WM GED publically saying Lichaj had a nightmare game, sure that will boost the young lads confidence!!
Houllier Out!
Don't know, but i just tried to have £50 on the 4/1 with Skybet on Houllier being the next manager to leave.
They only let me have £27.50.
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Back = relegation.
Sack = a chance we might survive
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There is a rumour going around that GED did not travel back with the players on the coach and was with Lerner? anyone heard this?
Was Lerner definitely at the game?
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Just a rumour. Probably utter bollocks.
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Lerner was at the game - maybe he has seen enough and decided to act ? Clearly the situation needs sorting before the deadline and we need a fast appointment- if true that jol was a strong option in august then I would hope he would take the reins !
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Lerner and Houllier have had a meeting after the game.
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Source?
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I don't want Villa to turn into one of those clubs that sacks the manager after 6 or 7 bad results but Houlliers record has been dire since he came; we can back him to sign a load of mediocre players a la Barton, Wheater, O'Neil etc in January and watch us get relegated OR we sack him and get someone in who is up to the job.
So that's a 'Sack' from me sadly...
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The decline in morale has reached such a desperate low so quickly that I can't see it being repaired by the current management. It was clear from day 1 that there was a barrier and Houllier has done nothing to dispense with that concern. He has alienated players and seems to have personal vendettas against certain players especially Carew. Perhaps it is mutual but how we could have done with him today. Or could it be the same reason the French team walked away from the World Cup? It seems more than coincidence to me.
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In this article:-
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/houllier-i-feel-alive-again
'I have four principles,' he says.
'Number one, respect. But respect means a lot of things. Respect the kit manager. Respect means you never tell the media "I should play" because that is a lack of respect for your team-mates and a lack of respect for the club and the manager who picks the team.'
Does respect also mean not slagging off a kid who has barely kicked a ball for us (Lichaj)
What about showing respect to Stephen Ireland, fair enough the boy is crackpot who hasn't applied himself at Villa but it was Geddy who went to media slagging him off when Ireland had not said a word. Why can't he keep his opinions between himself and the players.
No way would I trust this bloke in the January transfer window. Get rid.
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Randy has no idea about the game, plenty of heart but no football sense
That could have been what MON thought and decided to go
OR
Randy said your not wasting anoter £20m on shite and he walked?
No-one can criticize Learner for appointing Houllier as he was the best at the time.
I am worried though big style..Chelsea away next
I'm sorry that's utter bollox,
The best available my arse!
Randy showed no balls or football sense by declaring that he won't approach anybody in a job. We should have gone for the best man, not the best man available!
Randy is a good owner, but is getting his fingers burnt for being naive and not recruiting a football man to assist him.
When we appointed Houllier the list was shocking, We were being linked with that american manager Bob Bradley, Curbishley & Shit like that, he was the best availiabe at the time.
That was widely accepted
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Time is up Taxi for Gerard
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Reluctantly I've gone for sack- I think when houllier agreed the job phil Thompson was coming with him and had told sky so, but thommos change of heart and the disaster that is Gary mcallister have made it untenable in my view- he has to go!
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I have never wanted a manager sacked before, but it has to be a 'sack' for me. He has alienated everyone at the club, and we are getting worse with every week that passes.
I never thought I would join a fanzine site, but these last 2 games have driven me to it, me family don't understand and Im worried that Im gonna break a foot on the wall soon!....thank god for the ashes!
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Has anyone ever got this done? The re-growth must be murder. A bit of trimming from time to time is the way to go.
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I'd go
Hughes
Jol
KMac/Sid
El tel
Fat Sam
In that order
Hughes - On the verge of the sack at Fulham?
Jol - If he'd have wanted the job he'd have left Ajax
KMac/Sid - Sorry Kev isn't good enough
El tel - Serious?
Fat Sam - I'd rather Mon came back
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He alienated fans when he arrived and he seems to have now alienated the players.
I don't think he ever had much time for us. He saw us as mid-table and it has showed.
We are better than you Ged. Au Revoir.
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There is a rumour going around that GED did not travel back with the players on the coach and was with Lerner? anyone heard this?
also on WM GED publically saying Lichaj had a nightmare game, sure that will boost the young lads confidence!!
Houllier Out!
Don't know, but i just tried to have £50 on the 4/1 with Skybet on Houllier being the next manager to leave.
They only let me have £27.50.
After holding for 5mins to ask a supervisor Bluesquare wouldn't take my bet, said they would look at it in the new year ???
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Bullshit, he was not the best available
I'd have taken Bradley or curbishley over houllier,not that I'd have been happy with the former 2
We should have stuck with KMac and not rushed into this silly appointment
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I don't think Jol is the saviour some folk reckon he is.
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Sack for me too sadly. It's not the fact that we lost today, it was the attitude in defeat. He's alienated a lot at the club by the looks of things and it looks like it's too far back. Unless he intends to replace the whole squad as none of them will play for him, he has got to go
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Bullshit, he was not the best available
I'd have taken Bradley or curbishley over houllier,not that I'd have been happy with the former 2
We should have stuck with KMac and not rushed into this silly appointment
You'd have taken Bob Bradley, with his wealth of experience?
Crikey.
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I'd go
Hughes
Jol
KMac/Sid
El tel
Fat Sam
In that order
Hughes - On the verge of the sack at Fulham?
Jol - If he'd have wanted the job he'd have left Ajax
KMac/Sid - Sorry Kev isn't good enough
El tel - Serious?
Fat Sam - I'd rather Mon came back
If Fat Sam becomes Villa manager then I am done....
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tough decision took a chance on experience with houillier but is he past it, some bad decisions from the manager and not what us fans want when he says in the press that the club needs to cut wage bill and would sell young for the right money, we did that with milner and barry which lead to o'neill quitting was he right ? has lerner just made a bad judgement with a new manager i dont know but if we go down we have seroius problems
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F**K off Houllier asap.
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Bullshit, he was not the best available
I'd have taken Bradley or curbishley over houllier,not that I'd have been happy with the former 2
We should have stuck with KMac and not rushed into this silly appointment
You'd have taken Bob Bradley, with his wealth of experience?
Over houllier yes
Crikey.
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Colin Wanker would sort us out short term.
The very fact I've even considered such a thing tells it's own story.
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Bullshit, he was not the best available
I'd have taken Bradley or curbishley over houllier,not that I'd have been happy with the former 2
We should have stuck with KMac and not rushed into this silly appointment
You'd have taken Bob Bradley, with his wealth of experience?
Over houllier yes
Crikey.
I wouldn't.
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In this article:-
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/houllier-i-feel-alive-again
'I have four principles,' he says.
'Number one, respect. But respect means a lot of things. Respect the kit manager. Respect means you never tell the media "I should play" because that is a lack of respect for your team-mates and a lack of respect for the club and the manager who picks the team.'
Does respect also mean not slagging off a kid who has barely kicked a ball for us (Lichaj)
What about showing respect to Stephen Ireland, fair enough the boy is crackpot who hasn't applied himself at Villa but it was Geddy who went to media slagging him off when Ireland had not said a word. Why can't he keep his opinions between himself and the players.
No way would I trust this bloke in the January transfer window. Get rid.
Same goes for me. I said he was a blame merchant when we appointed him. Get rid now & let the new manager spend in Jan. Of the currently available I'd pick Jol.
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I don't think Jol is the saviour some folk reckon he is.
He's not but hey ho
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Colin Wanker would sort us out short term.
The very fact I've even considered such a thing tells it's own story.
Who's Colin Wanker?
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Back (for the time being).
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If I had to predict what will happen, I'd go for an average second half of the season, a 13th place finish and a "by mutual consent" in June.
With Steve McClaren coming in as a replacement when Wolfsburg finish mid-table.
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Colin Wanker would sort us out short term.
The very fact I've even considered such a thing tells it's own story.
Who's Colin Wanker?
He's just tossed his name into the hat.
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i would try simon grayson done well for leeds so far
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i would try simon grayson done well for leeds so far
No. Give Houllier a chance.
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Sorry but this bloke is taking us down for sure. The players don't like him and with every game so are more and more fans. Get Jol in before GH does any more damage.
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He must go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Like many others a few days ago on another thread I voted for "give him the transfer window"
However after today I have a feeling this would be a mistake. We are in a position now where we need established Premier players who know exactly what is involved in a winter relegation battle. And as much as I hate to admit it that is what we are now in.
I fear that Houllier would buy a load of young and unproven foreigners (which I would nt mind in the summer) but this is not the time for that.
Yes, we have had terrible injuries and over the last few games I thought we would be ok when established players came back. However, today has proved that it is not just the injuries that is the problem as it was a close to full strength team.I can handle losing a game..I m a Villa fan after all. But with the manner of our losses and what looks like to me a lack of effort Something drastic has to be done NOW.
Normally I would not want a manager sacked, especially this quickly, but IF he has lost the players ( and evidence would suggest this may be the case) then he has to go. Get someone in who will kick their arses into shape and put the passion back into them. A year ago I would have thrown up at the thought of Sam Allardyce managing my beloved club but we are now in a position where he may be what we need.
I hope Randy has got his finger on the pulse of the club and he will know more than anyone if Houllier has lost the dressing room. If he has, then he must go now so a new man can come in and buy who he wants in the transfer window.
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I am genuinely fecked on this one. I just don't know who I want or what I want. I am shit scared to be honest, we are in such disarray.
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He must go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No. I might be turning into the next Chris Smith (that's a joke, Chris) but I firmly believe that he needs time.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
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He's clueless, he's without passion and he's taking us down. Get him gone.
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Colin Wanker would sort us out short term.
The very fact I've even considered such a thing tells it's own story.
Who's Colin Wanker?
The anagram of Neil Warnock.
I remember the first time a Bury fan told me that - around the time he was still manager at Gigg Lane and appeared on TV wearing a Sheff Utd tie - I nearly pissed myself.
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Colin Wanker would sort us out short term.
The very fact I've even considered such a thing tells it's own story.
Who's Colin Wanker?
Neil Warnock
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Steve Fucking McLaren, surely it hasn't come to this
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No. I might be turning into the next Chris Smith (that's a joke, Chris) but I firmly believe that he needs time.
Give him 6 months in Winson Green then, just keep him away from the dressing room.
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Seriously, Alex McLeish would turn us into a fighting team. He'd keep us up.
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Neil Warnock? No thanks.
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Martin Jol all day long.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
Why shouldn't we be angry and disappointed when we are not competing against these teams we were beating them last season, we are getting dragged down by GH you must be blind not to see this, I am not fickle 41 years a fan good times and bad, i'm just angry we are going backwards fast under GH and GM he must be relieved of his duties
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If I had to predict what will happen, I'd go for an average second half of the season, a 13th place finish and a "by mutual consent" in June.
With Steve McClaren coming in as a replacement when Wolfsburg finish mid-table.
That is a wildly optimistic predicition imo.
At best I think we'll scrape 16 or 17th, surviving on the last day due to there being a lot of very poor teams.
Unless we sack Houllier.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
No chance we will be bottom 3.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
No chance we will be bottom 3.
Until today, I'd have agreed with that.
Now, though, I'm nothing like as sure.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
No chance we will be bottom 3.
What on earth have you seen this season that suggests we are not going to be in a relegation battle?
Our managers brilliant tactical knowledge?
Our resolute defending?
Our cutting edge up front?
Our seniors players
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Owen Coyle is the only one I would go for.
He would get the respect of the players and play the football we all want to see.
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If I had to predict what will happen, I'd go for an average second half of the season, a 13th place finish and a "by mutual consent" in June.
With Steve McClaren coming in as a replacement when Wolfsburg finish mid-table.
That is a wildly optimistic predicition imo.
At best I think we'll scrape 16 or 17th, surviving on the last day due to there being a lot of very poor teams.
Unless we sack Houllier.
We're not very good at the moment.
But as you allude to, there are a lot of teams who aren't very good and at least five who are worse than we are.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
Why shouldn't we be angry and disappointed when we are not competing against these teams we were beating them last season, we are getting dragged down by GH you must be blind not to see this, I am not fickle 41 years a fan good times and bad, i'm just angry we are going backwards fast under GH and GM he must be relieved of his duties
Did we beat all of those teams last season? I can only remember beating Liverpool in the corresponding fixture last season.We were similarly inept at City last season. We are going backwards because our manager is trying to stop us playing long ball in order to take us forward. No investment in 2010 and a former manager walking out on us on the eve of the season.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
No chance we will be bottom 3.
What on earth have you seen this season that suggests we are not going to be in a relegation battle?
If we had 3 points more would you think we were in a releagtion battle or challenging for Europe (possibly 7th). The Wigan postponement came at the worst time for us. I will ask you personally as no one has answered me...how many points were you expecting from these fixtures: Man City (A), Spurs (H), WBA (H), L'Pool (A), Arsenal (H), Blackburn (A) and Man U (H)?
We have better players than our position shows and money to spend I am sure.
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Martin Jol all day long.
Will he take it? I think he'd wait for a bigger job with a more stable club to come up.
We will have a lot of dodgy names to look at. Look at the shortlist who were interviewed: Curbs, KMac, Sven and of course Houllier. Add a few of the somewhat bizarre names people have suggested on this thread Venables (Christ!) and a few managers from the Championship like Grayson, O'Driscoll etc and you will have our shortlist.
For me our best option is to keep Houllier. If we must sack him I think the best option who we could get would be (as much as it would pain me) Big Sam. If we intend on reigning in spending he would cope and keep us up but it would come at long term cost of poor football and potentially hitting a glass ceiling.
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]
We were similarly inept at City last season.
I don't actually think your memory is that good. We went 1-0 up. Made two defensive errors in almost as many minutes - in between which we hit the bar. Their third was in the last few minutes when we'd pushed forward in search of an equalizer.
I left Eastlands that sunny May Day thinking that for all the money thy'd spent they weren't that much better. I left today wondering if I'll be back next season.
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The worrying thing is that now out injuries are clearing up we seem to be getting worse rather than better- the only thing that might save him is that he can try and clear out the bad eggs in the transfer window but I fear the damage has been done now.
Surely houllier should have seen Gary macs record as a coach and not touched him- a huge mistake which I think will cost him his job.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
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]
We were similarly inept at City last season.
I don't actually think your memory is that good. We went 1-0 up. Made two defensive errors in almost as many minutes - in between which we hit the bar. Their third was in the last few minutes when we'd pushed forward in search of an equalizer.
I left Eastlands that sunny May Day thinking that for all the money thy'd spent they weren't that much better. I left today wondering if I'll be back next season.
Made 2 defensive errors...sounding familiar to today....
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Agree with Legion, back him for now. I'm trying to be positive, we've had a awful run of matches in December - Manure, L-pool, Arsenal, Man Citeh & Spuds, we've had load of injuries they are now coming back, once their back in their stride and we play 'lesser' teams, judge him then. Also, he has not been able to buy any players he wants it's MONs squad. If he doesn't do it after that, then he has to go....I would go for Lambert.
Question: All those having a go ay MON when we were 6th, would you take him back?
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]
We were similarly inept at City last season.
I don't actually think your memory is that good. We went 1-0 up. Made two defensive errors in almost as many minutes - in between which we hit the bar. Their third was in the last few minutes when we'd pushed forward in search of an equalizer.
I left Eastlands that sunny May Day thinking that for all the money thy'd spent they weren't that much better. I left today wondering if I'll be back next season.
Made 2 defensive errors...sounding familiar to today....
We were absolutely all over them, and despite the result, looked a really good side.
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I never ever thought I would call for the dismissal of a manager after half a season but survival in the Premiership is so vital and escape from the Championship so difficult we dare not take the chance that Houllier might come good.
It is bloody rotten luck for him to come in when he did under the circumstances he did. He got no dead cat bounce out of the team because we were not (yet) dead cats. He has had a bad run of injuries, he has got some mischief makers in the squad and he has not had a transfer window to get his own players. However, that is the way it is and he is stuck with it.
I want survival in the Premiership at all costs and if that means a nice man gets a bum deal sobeit. He will have to go back to France and count his money.
The January transfer window is an irrelevance with Houllier in charge. What is he going to do? Draft in old war horses to scrap our way to safety? If that is to be the scenario why has he pissed away half a season trying to be the poor man's Arsenal? If he buys in young unproven players with potential the relegation battle will ruin them and they will probably buckle under the strain. Houllier is in a no win situation.
It is the same arse uppards situation he created against Spurs. Proven competent players in the form of Petrov and NRC were available but he decided to gamble on Delph after a nine month lay off and the massively inexperienced Hogg. It was a big game and we desperately needed something out of it. If Petrov and NRC were to play only half a game the half they played should have been the first half. Likewise when he came to the club we had achieved Premiership security playing O"Neill's high energy ugly football.
He is supposed to be a great football thinker. Why didn't occur to him to play the old way and rack up some points then ease the team into the tippy tappy stuff he prefers, boosted by promising newcomers eased into the squad in January.
He has screwed it up big time and must not be allowed to waste any more precious games.
I would have liked Klinsmann but right now I would settle for Ray Wilkins.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
As I will with you thinking that we will.
We will stay up as there are at least 3 worse teams in the division than us. At least 10 when we are fully fit.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
Why is that such a problem for you? Are you a member of the thought police? You have both analysed the evidence and reached different conclusions. We will see who is right in the end or whether Randy shares these fears.
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I can't help but keep thinking of the Fulham and United results. It seems like those two results have done something mentally disturbing to the team.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
When that has happened, we'll be in the bottom three and waving goodbye to the Premier League. Houllier hasn't got a clue.
No chance we will be bottom 3.
What on earth have you seen this season that suggests we are not going to be in a relegation battle?
If we had 3 points more would you think we were in a releagtion battle or challenging for Europe (possibly 7th). The Wigan postponement came at the worst time for us. I will ask you personally as no one has answered me...how many points were you expecting from these fixtures: Man City (A), Spurs (H), WBA (H), L'Pool (A), Arsenal (H), Blackburn (A) and Man U (H)?
We have better players than our position shows and money to spend I am sure.
Under Houllier, not many. I was actually shocked we beat the Baggies at home. Thats how low we are at the moment. The games we have won under Houllier have hardly been convincing. Scraping a win against a reserve Blackpool at home, a win at a very very poor Wolves team and a flattering win at home to WBA.
As much as MON gets slated, i think we'd have grinded out a few more results against those teams
The results are concerning. But the perfomances have been wholly unacceptable against the teams you mentioned. (Apart from against Man United and WBA). There is such a lack of fight, a lack of passion. The players have absolutely no confidence and seemingly no will to give their all for the manager.(something that could never have been claimed of the same players under MON). I think a no of players and the manager have gone into these games fully expecting to get beat.
We are so tactically inept and unorganised. Defenders are making mistakes Sunday league players would be ashamed of.
We have a real lack of cutting edge. We do not look like scoring goals.
If, as you say we had 3 more points, I would still be really worried. Performances under Houllier started mediocre and have got sharply worse. Unless things drastically change we are in huge trouble.
As for the transfer window, what players are out there, avaliable in January that are willing to come to a club with such a bad feeling about it at present. I also wouldn't trust Houllier with large sums of cash considering some of the dross he signed at Liverpool.
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i understand peoples reasons for thinking give him chance with his players... so far heres a list of players weve been linked with
Pires - we got
Omar Cummings - we got on trial
Juninho (lyon)
piquione
cisse
id rather get rid of him now and see either martin jol in or owen coyle
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If someone had told me 12 months ago that in a year there would be calls to appoint Neil fucking Warnock to avoid relegation, despite only losing one player we wanted to keep, I'd have thought them insane.
Houllier should be given time, not because I've any kind of faith that he can inspire this bunch of overpaid wankers to fulfill their potential or earn their money, just because there is no-one else out there.
What a fucking mess.
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i understand peoples reasons for thinking give him chance with his players... so far heres a list of players weve been linked with
Pires - we got
Omar Cummings - we got on trial
Juninho (lyon)
piquione
cisse
id rather get rid of him now and see either martin jol in or owen coyle
If we are going on linked players you conveniently forgot Barton, Demba Ba, M'Villa, Fofana, Lacina Traore, Makoun, Wiendefeller etc but hey don't worry about them....
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2 months ago I put on here that Houllier was not the man for us and I got pelters.
Interesting to see a few people who have done a U turn since mugging me off back then.
He's not Villa, he has no passion for us and if anyone on here honestly thinks that he will do anything for us in January then look at his first choice of a loan player - 37 year old Pires.
If I wasn't so upset about it it would be funny. As our kid said on an earlier post this evening - get him f***'in gone.
Filling the away ends at Burnley and Doncaster might be a laugh for some but not for me I'm afraid.
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i understand peoples reasons for thinking give him chance with his players... so far heres a list of players weve been linked with
Pires - we got
Omar Cummings - we got on trial
Juninho (lyon)
piquione
cisse
id rather get rid of him now and see either martin jol in or owen coyle
Benzema
Payet
Makoun
Given
Diarra
McGregor
N'Zogbia
Hoarau
M'Vila
I'm not sure the nonsense written in the press is of much relevance as a pro or a con.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
Why is that such a problem for you? Are you a member of the thought police? You have both analysed the evidence and reached different conclusions. We will see who is right in the end or whether Randy shares these fears.
I tell you why its a problem. Its because when someone says "we won't go down" its not a million miles off "we're too good to go down". Its complacent and its naive.
Yes, we've had a difficult run of fixtures (and we were in many ways lucky to beat Albion), but before them? Did you see the performance at Ewood Park? The failure to hold onto the lead at Fulham? The inability to convert chances against Sunderland? Etc, etc, etc.
The reality is we are playing poorly, have the worst goal difference in the division, can't score, can't turn around a deficit, can't play the style of play that the manager and his coaching staff seem to want us to play, a manager that has apparently lost the dressing room, an owner who has pulled shut the purse strings, a home support that doesn't lift the side and now elements of the media are laughing at our ineptness.
So go on, now convince me to the contrary.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
Why is that such a problem for you? Are you a member of the thought police? You have both analysed the evidence and reached different conclusions. We will see who is right in the end or whether Randy shares these fears.
I tell you why its a problem. Its because when someone says "we won't go down" its not a million miles off "we're too good to go down". Its complacent and its naive.
Yes, we've had a difficult run of fixtures (and we were in many ways lucky to beat Albion), but before them? Did you see the performance at Ewood Park? The failure to hold onto the lead at Fulham? The inability to convert chances against Sunderland? Etc, etc, etc.
The reality is we are playing poorly, have the worst goal difference in the division, can't score, can't turn around a deficit, can't play the style of play that the manager and his coaching staff seem to want us to play, a manager that has apparently lost the dressing room, an owner who has pulled shut the purse strings, a home support that doesn't lift the side and now elements of the media are laughing at our ineptness.
So go on, now convince me to the contrary.
The only thing im clutching to is that its a poor division this year,and their are worse teams than us this season.All the teams starting with W for starters,so thats at least 5th from bottom.
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Yes, we've had a difficult run of fixtures (and we were in many ways lucky to beat Albion), but before them? Did you see the performance at Ewood Park? The failure to hold onto the lead at Fulham? The inability to convert chances against Sunderland? Etc, etc, etc.
If we were lucky to beat Albion we were unlucky not to beat Fulham and Sunderland.
You can't have it both ways.
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He's not Villa, he has no passion for us and if anyone on here honestly thinks that he will do anything for us in January then look at his first choice of a loan player - 37 year old Pires.
Apart from the "he's not Villa" nonsense, which is meaningless guff, I'll also point out that Pires is not a loan player, he was an unattached player, which is the only type of player you can sign outside a window, and there wasn't much of a choice available to Houllier.
I'm all for criticising GH for the stuff he deserves it for - and right now, there is plenty - but "first choice of loan player" suggests you're somewhat off beam.
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I don't want Villa to be a club that sacks the manager every time we have a bad run. I want us to back the manager and give him time to develop a squad capable of challenging for the top of our league. We can only do that if we have the right man in place in the Premiership, I can see GH taking us down so he has to go. Who we replace him with I don't know, I can say who I don't want as our manager, but we need to get the right man in and back him all the way.
I am shitting myself that we will be in a relegation battle with a manager who can't put a bit of fire in the belly of his players. When you are in the shit like we are it's not quality football that saves you it's bottle and I don't see any at the moment. That is what scares me the most.
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He's not Villa, he has no passion for us and if anyone on here honestly thinks that he will do anything for us in January then look at his first choice of a loan player - 37 year old Pires.
Apart from the "he's not Villa" nonsense, which is meaningless guff, I'll also point out that Pires is not a loan player, he was an unattached player, which is the only type of player you can sign outside a window, and there wasn't much of a choice available to Houllier.
I'm all for criticising GH for the stuff he deserves it for - and right now, there is plenty - but "first choice of loan player" suggests you're somewhat off beam.
I dont like this he's not Villa bollocks,we'll soon come across like the scousers and geordies.
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I am amazed that so many people want Jol.
The facts are that he he was sacked in October 07 with Spurs having won just one of their first League 10 matches and lying third from bottom in the table.
He was given huge money to spend at Spurs and at the time had Berbatov,Bent, Keane and Defoe to choose from up front.
Given his abject failure working with that kind of quality what do we seriously imagine he could achieve with Carew Heskey and Gabbie and little or no money to spend.
Given our circumstances we need a proper football manager with a proven track record of getting performances out of seemingly average players and Owen Coyle is that man..
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I am amazed that so many people want Jol.
The facts are that he he was sacked in October 07 with Spurs having won just one of their first League 10 matches and lying third from bottom in the table.
He was given huge money to spend at Spurs and at the time had Berbatov,Bent, Keane and Defoe to choose from up front.
Given his abject failure working with that kind of quality what do we seriously imagine he could achieve with Carew Heskey and Gabbie and little or no money to spend.
Given our circumstances we need a proper football manager with a proven track record of getting performances out of seemingly average players and Owen Coyle is that man..
Dangerously close to describing a certain Ulsteman there. ;)
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thanks for putting me 'back on beam', youre right, Pires is great, whatever was I thinking...........
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I don't want Villa to be a club that sacks the manager every time we have a bad run. I want us to back the manager and give him time to develop a squad capable of challenging for the top of our league. We can only do that if we have the right man in place in the Premiership, I can see GH taking us down so he has to go. Who we replace him with I don't know, I can say who I don't want as our manager, but we need to get the right man in and back him all the way.
I am shitting myself that we will be in a relegation battle with a manager who can't put a bit of fire in the belly of his players. When you are in the shit like we are it's not quality football that saves you it's bottle and I don't see any at the moment. That is what scares me the most.
Thats the hard part of football,knowing if youve chosen a good man for the job,as there has been times when Everton couldve easily got rid of Moyes for poor form and bad results,but with us,we have the same set of players showing no spirit and making costly mistakes,consistantly.
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No chance we will be bottom 3.
I'm getting sick of these blasé statements when all the evidence is currently to the contrary.
So go on, convince me. Why is there no chance?
Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, does not mean it is blase! I don't have to convince you. My beief is we will finish in well clear as we have had a bad run of fixtures recently. If you don't agree with me, ho-hum I will get over it
So we won't finish in the bottom three because... you don't think we will.
Great! I'll sleep so much better now.
Why is that such a problem for you? Are you a member of the thought police? You have both analysed the evidence and reached different conclusions. We will see who is right in the end or whether Randy shares these fears.
I tell you why its a problem. Its because when someone says "we won't go down" its not a million miles off "we're too good to go down". Its complacent and its naive.
Yes, we've had a difficult run of fixtures (and we were in many ways lucky to beat Albion), but before them? Did you see the performance at Ewood Park? The failure to hold onto the lead at Fulham? The inability to convert chances against Sunderland? Etc, etc, etc.
The reality is we are playing poorly, have the worst goal difference in the division, can't score, can't turn around a deficit, can't play the style of play that the manager and his coaching staff seem to want us to play, a manager that has apparently lost the dressing room, an owner who has pulled shut the purse strings, a home support that doesn't lift the side and now elements of the media are laughing at our ineptness.
So go on, now convince me to the contrary.
Why do you have to be "convinced". I think we will finish the season well ahead of the relegation zone. I think this because of what I have seen in our team and others this season. I think our team, when fit, is good enough to be top half especially with a couple of additions. The only peoply who can fulfill your desire to be "convinced" are the players by the end of the season. I don't think that 6-0 defeat to Newcastle , when GH was not here, did us any favours with our goal difference.
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Maybe people are right about Jol...if he was so good why was he sacked by Spurs?
Any chance Moyes would leave struggling Everton? It seems to me he's been there too long and won't ever take them any further. A fresh challenge with a similar sized club could be a good career move? If we had Moyes for 8 or 9 years imagine what we could achieve. A better version of MON (and he's not a prat).
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I thought Pires was quite good against Blackburn, Spurs and even today when he came on. He does the job he's supposed to probably even more so than some starting players but he doesn't have the legs to replace them. He has just given a bad impression against Arsenal when he started, which was way too much for him, leading to a lot of people getting on his back, unfairly so in my opinion.
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jol also finished in the top 5 twice in his last 2 seasons at spurs - he was sacked after a nandful of games - moyes would have been sacked every year at spurs given his record at starting the season but everton gave him a chance to redeen himself.
jol had a bad run and was sacked as was atkinson at villa after one bad run.trigger happy chairmen! i think many everton fans would be happy to see moyes go as they seem to have reached a plateau there similar to mon did here - he may well be tempted away now.
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[quote author=garyshawsknee link=topic=41563.msg1656493#msg1656493
Thats the hard part of football,knowing if youve chosen a good man for the job,as there has been times when Everton couldve easily got rid of Moyes for poor form and bad results,but with us,we have the same set of players showing no spirit and making costly mistakes,consistantly.
[/quote]
The thing with Everton is generally, even when they're not winning they put up a fight.
They might lose by the odd goal here and there and as a fan you can rationalise that just a bit of tinkering or a bit of luck will change things around for you.
When you have performances like today, Liverpool, Blackburn, B-lose in the cup and even Tottenham the other day -when we couldn't beat a team playing with 10 men for the majority- it's harder to make the leap that it'll all click into place soon.
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We have no spine
We have no spirit
We have no desire
...and that comes from the Manager.
Get rid.
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The thing with Everton is generally, even when they're not winning they put up a fight.
They might lose by the odd goal here and there and as a fan you can rationalise that just a bit of tinkering here and there or a bit of luck will change things around for you.
When you have performances like today, Liverpool, Blackburn, B-lose in the cup and even Tottenham the other day -when we couldn't beat a team playing with 10 men for the majority- it's harder to make the leap that it'll all click into place soon.
That's an interesting point. Everton, not much further out of the shit than us, and putting together some awful results, went to Man City and won 2-0 the other day. They also got a point, and deserved all three, at Chelsea.
That's spirit. I just can't imagine us doing that right now, and it isn't about the way we're set up to play, it is about the total lack of spirit.
It is hard to see how a transfer window is going to be enough to fix that, it probably wouldnt be, even with unlimited money, with this being January.
I think the problems run much deeper than that, and that scares me.
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I thought Pires was quite good against Blackburn, Spurs and even today when he came on. He does the job he's supposed to probably even more so than some starting players but he doesn't have the legs to replace them. He has just given a bad impression against Arsenal when he started, which was way too much for him, leading to a lot of people getting on his back, unfairly so in my opinion.
If you want to keep possession in your own third when the other team have one toe in the post match bath then he's just the man.
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Perhaps all the intrigue at villa park these past few months will spawn a work of art to match 'The Damned United'? There sure as hell is enough material there, and enough gaps in what we actually know to be filled by an active imagination.
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Have a look at GH's post match conference on the post match thread and come back here and tell me he's got the answers or knows where to start to fix the problems.
He very clearly hasn't.
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Perhaps all the intrigue at villa park these past few months will spawn a work of art to match 'The Damned United'? There sure as hell is enough material there, and enough gaps in what we actually know to be filled by an active imagination.
Except of course it will lack as its central character a fabled manager who won the title at one unfashionable club, licked his wounds, and then won another title plus two European Cups at another.
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Perhaps all the intrigue at villa park these past few months will spawn a work of art to match 'The Damned United'? There sure as hell is enough material there, and enough gaps in what we actually know to be filled by an active imagination.
Indeed....'Nightmare on Trinity Rd' would be one option......
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I thought Pires was quite good against Blackburn, Spurs and even today when he came on. He does the job he's supposed to probably even more so than some starting players but he doesn't have the legs to replace them. He has just given a bad impression against Arsenal when he started, which was way too much for him, leading to a lot of people getting on his back, unfairly so in my opinion.
If you want to keep possession in your own third when the other team have one toe in the post match bath then he's just the man.
I thought he added nothing when he came on against Spurs.
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Pires is a gamble which didn't come off. He's nowhere near fit or good enough any more. He needs to be told 'thanks but no thanks' and moved on asap for everyone's sake - he's just another monkey on GH's back and he's got the cast of Planet of the Apes on there already.
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There is a line of thought put forward by one of my sons that none of this is Houllier's fault but the fault of Martin O'Neill.
The theory goes that O'Neill saw what was coming down the turnpike in the 2010/11 season and jumped ship. This theory is borne out by the fact that the whole of the calendar year of 2010 we have played crap. We finished last season on our knees and put it down to exhaustion. Perhaps O'Neill was standing close enough to the outfit he had put together, including the misfits he had paid massively over the odds for, to see they were about to implode. The ship he jumped from hit the rocks at Newcastle and has been sinking ever since.
Perhaps none of it is Houllier's fault.
Still got to go though. Of all the managers in the Premiership the one you would least want when the skin and hair starts flying in relegation fights is Gerard Houllier. Too nice too cold too much the school swot and not enough the school bully.
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Even though I'm already in the 'get rid' camp...What will people think if we put in another display like that against Chelsea and get smashed for 4/5/6?
Surely now the Chelsea game is the perfect opportunity for these players to bounce back, show there is hope and that they want to play for Ged. Show us that Man City was just a bit of a fuck up.
I won't mind getting tonked but I want to see that these players/ manager give it a good go.
If we put in the same amount of effort as today, then I'm not sure anybody can defend Houllier. Forget injuries, MON situation etc the Chelsea game will decide if this bloke can get anything out of these players.
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Lads...........you can relax, news is just coming in that GH has called a strategy meeting on Friday.
Apparently he's drafting in Audley Harrison, Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards and the one who isn't one of the brothers from Bros to have a brainstorming session.
It's okay guys......the cavalry are coming....
Phew!
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There is a line of thought put forward by one of my sons that none of this is Houllier's fault but the fault of Martin O'Neill.
The theory goes that O'Neill saw what was coming down the turnpike in the 2010/11 season and jumped ship. This theory is borne out by the fact that the whole of the calendar year of 2010 we have played crap. We finished last season on our knees and put it down to exhaustion. Perhaps O'Neill was standing close enough to the outfit he had put together, including the misfits he had paid massively over the odds for, to see they were about to implode. The ship he jumped from hit the rocks at Newcastle and has been sinking ever since.
Perhaps none of it is Houllier's fault.
Still got to go though. Of all the managers in the Premiership the one you would least want when the skin and hair starts flying in relegation fights is Gerard Houllier. Too nice too cold too much the school swot and not enough the school bully.
MON's timing of his resignation was selfish and very poor.
Apart from that this is the fault of Houllier and the players.
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There is a line of thought put forward by one of my sons that none of this is Houllier's fault but the fault of Martin O'Neill.
The theory goes that O'Neill saw what was coming down the turnpike in the 2010/11 season and jumped ship. This theory is borne out by the fact that the whole of the calendar year of 2010 we have played crap. We finished last season on our knees and put it down to exhaustion. Perhaps O'Neill was standing close enough to the outfit he had put together, including the misfits he had paid massively over the odds for, to see they were about to implode. The ship he jumped from hit the rocks at Newcastle and has been sinking ever since.
Perhaps none of it is Houllier's fault.
Still got to go though. Of all the managers in the Premiership the one you would least want when the skin and hair starts flying in relegation fights is Gerard Houllier. Too nice too cold too much the school swot and not enough the school bully.
The only problem with that analysis is that it is not borne out be the facts.
the first game we lost in 2010 was the League Cup Final on 28th Feb and we only lost 4 more before the end of the season and 2 of those were to the double winners. We also won 13 times in all competitions.
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I'm happy to blame Stephen Ireland. The useless tosser.
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I'm happy to blame Stephen Ireland. The useless tosser.
Agreed that he's a tosser but the problems are a lot more deep rooted than that mate.
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i understand peoples reasons for thinking give him chance with his players... so far heres a list of players weve been linked with
Pires - we got
Omar Cummings - we got on trial
Juninho (lyon)
piquione
cisse
id rather get rid of him now and see either martin jol in or owen coyle
Benzema
Payet
Makoun
Given
Diarra
McGregor
N'Zogbia
Hoarau
M'Vila
I'm not sure the nonsense written in the press is of much relevance as a pro or a con.
Don't forget Michael Owen!
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We have no spine
We have no spirit
We have no desire
...and that comes from the Manager.
Get rid.
TOTALLY AGREE
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i am in the camp of back ged, i can see what he is trying to do on the pitch, there are a load of players who are in the squad who cannot play the type of football he wants, the only mistake i can see is the evolution not revolution one that owen coyle has taken up. I sympathise with the injuries he has had to put up with.
there is enough there to take us away from relegation, the board will back him in jan, and then he can start building for a rise in the league next year!
Mon is a tosser in my eyes at the time of his departure, though i always appreciated the job he did for us without ever being a fan of his style of play. We all know we were left in the shit when he did that to us!
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Thanks Chris I will tell my son he is talking rubbish.
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O'Neill walking out didn't help. The injuries haven't helped. But there's no excuse for the piss poor performances we've being putting in. We've got the joint worst goal difference in the Premier League, and are 5 points behind Blackpool despite having played two games more than them. We're halfway through the season and we've nearly conceded as many goals as we did in the whole of last season. Our best defender in Dunne and leading goal scorer in Carew from last season can't even get in the squad thanks the idiot manager falling over himself to piss players off.
It's a farce, a disaster, and the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. Actually giving Houllier money to spend in January frightens me.
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O'Neill walking out didn't help. The injuries haven't helped. But there's no excuse for the piss poor performances we've being putting in. We've got the joint worst goal difference in the Premier League, and are 5 points behind Blackpool despite having played two games more than them. We're halfway through the season and we've nearly conceded as many goals as we did in the whole of last season. Our best defender in Dunne and leading goal scorer in Carew from last season can't even get in the squad thanks the idiot manager falling over himself to piss players off.
Beautifully put. You get my vote
It's a farce, a disaster, and the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. Actually giving Houllier money to spend in January frightens me.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
Why shouldn't we be angry and disappointed when we are not competing against these teams we were beating them last season, we are getting dragged down by GH you must be blind not to see this, I am not fickle 41 years a fan good times and bad, i'm just angry we are going backwards fast under GH and GM he must be relieved of his duties
Did we beat all of those teams last season? I can only remember beating Liverpool in the corresponding fixture last season.We were similarly inept at City last season. We are going backwards because our manager is trying to stop us playing long ball in order to take us forward. No investment in 2010 and a former manager walking out on us on the eve of the season.
I wouldn't be worried about relegation if I had the memory of a goldfish.
In addition to Liverpool we also beat Chelsea, Blues, Sunderland and Fulham in the corresponding fixtures last season and drew against Arsenal and Spurs twice in corresponding games that we've lost under Houllier. That's an awful lot of dropped points in the time Gerard has been manager.
The money will not be there to buy our way out of trouble in January, the only chance we have is for the manager to begin getting the best out of the squad we have. I don't think Houllier can do that now.
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With the various chants in the away end for Houllier to go (which is just about the earliest I can recall for any manager) are we past the point of of putting this discontent down to a few internet drama queens yet?
Or are we still maintaining this will this all blow over soon?
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And yet a staggering 25% are backing him on the poll.....
Guys, we're in freefall, we won't have the funds to buy more players - Lerner has made that clear, and GH has lost the dressing room!
Wakey wakey!
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O'Neill walking out didn't help. The injuries haven't helped. But there's no excuse for the piss poor performances we've being putting in. We've got the joint worst goal difference in the Premier League, and are 5 points behind Blackpool despite having played two games more than them. We're halfway through the season and we've nearly conceded as many goals as we did in the whole of last season. Our best defender in Dunne and leading goal scorer in Carew from last season can't even get in the squad thanks the idiot manager falling over himself to piss players off.
It's a farce, a disaster, and the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. Actually giving Houllier money to spend in January frightens me.
But they have been shit since before he became manager.
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And yet a staggering 25% are backing him on the poll.....
Guys, we're in freefall, we won't have the funds to buy more players - Lerner has made that clear, and GH has lost the dressing room!
Wakey wakey!
Who said we don't have the funds in January? I don't think Houllier would of said he wanted to sign a few players if we've got no money to spend.
I can't imagine Randy WON'T be giving some money to Houllier with the situation we're in right now.
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He has to stay. We cannot judge him on games against Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs etc. We all sound so fickle, judge him when he has played teams at all levels of the Premier League with his full strength full match fit team.
Why shouldn't we be angry and disappointed when we are not competing against these teams we were beating them last season, we are getting dragged down by GH you must be blind not to see this, I am not fickle 41 years a fan good times and bad, i'm just angry we are going backwards fast under GH and GM he must be relieved of his duties
Did we beat all of those teams last season? I can only remember beating Liverpool in the corresponding fixture last season.We were similarly inept at City last season. We are going backwards because our manager is trying to stop us playing long ball in order to take us forward. No investment in 2010 and a former manager walking out on us on the eve of the season.
I wouldn't be worried about relegation if I had the memory of a goldfish.
In addition to Liverpool we also beat Chelsea, Blues, Sunderland and Fulham in the corresponding fixtures last season and drew against Arsenal and Spurs twice in corresponding games that we've lost under Houllier. That's an awful lot of dropped points in the time Gerard has been manager.
The money will not be there to buy our way out of trouble in January, the only chance we have is for the manager to begin getting the best out of the squad we have. I don't think Houllier can do that now.
Better Goldfish than plankton!
We cannot judge GH in the games against the top 4/5 or 6 as we shouldn't , with our current team, expect too much in these games. Our record over the last 10 years shows this. Other teams have moved on from last season. We have got slightly worse. It is only fair to judge him when he has played teams from all levels of the league.
I also believe he will spend.
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O'Neill walking out didn't help. The injuries haven't helped. But there's no excuse for the piss poor performances we've being putting in. We've got the joint worst goal difference in the Premier League, and are 5 points behind Blackpool despite having played two games more than them. We're halfway through the season and we've nearly conceded as many goals as we did in the whole of last season. Our best defender in Dunne and leading goal scorer in Carew from last season can't even get in the squad thanks the idiot manager falling over himself to piss players off.
It's a farce, a disaster, and the longer it goes on, the worse it will get. Actually giving Houllier money to spend in January frightens me.
But they have been shit since before he became manager.
lol @ Dunne being our best defender.
Cuellar is our best defender by miles... both Collins and Dunne are as bad as each other.
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And yet a staggering 25% are backing him on the poll.....
Guys, we're in freefall, we won't have the funds to buy more players - Lerner has made that clear, and GH has lost the dressing room!
Wakey wakey!
When?
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And yet a staggering 25% are backing him on the poll.....
Guys, we're in freefall, we won't have the funds to buy more players - Lerner has made that clear, and GH has lost the dressing room!
Wakey wakey!
When?
Last night at Tin Tins night club. Seriously though GH will have to get rid of the likes of Beye, Sidwell et al before he'll release the purse strings. Habib Beye on £45k a week with every Saturday off, yes I know he inherited him btw......
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And yet a staggering 25% are backing him on the poll.....
Guys, we're in freefall, we won't have the funds to buy more players - Lerner has made that clear, and GH has lost the dressing room!
Wakey wakey!
When?
Last night at Tin Tins night club. Seriously though GH will have to get rid of the likes of Beye, Sidwell et al before he'll release the purse strings. Habib Beye on £45k a week with every Saturday off, yes I know he inherited him btw......
All this despite Faulkner saying Randy will give him the resources neccessary? We WILL spend.
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All this despite Faulkner saying Randy will give him the resources neccessary? We WILL spend.
I fear we're getting back to the Villa tradition of not believing a word the club says.
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Perhaps all the intrigue at villa park these past few months will spawn a work of art to match 'The Damned United'? There sure as hell is enough material there, and enough gaps in what we actually know to be filled by an active imagination.
It will be called What The Faulk.
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And the other tradition of being a selling club.
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All this despite Faulkner saying Randy will give him the resources neccessary? We WILL spend.
I fear we're getting back to the Villa tradition of not believing a word the club says.
Well, we're a few days away from the time when they can shut a few people up. We'll see.
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And the other tradition of being a selling club.
One thing I will say is that, given current events and circumstances, if they sell Ashley Young in January, they deserve absolutely everything they get.
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http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/28/speculation-houllier-meeting-with-randy-and-comments-about-lichaj-a-disgrace-avfc-houllierout/
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http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/28/speculation-houllier-meeting-with-randy-and-comments-about-lichaj-a-disgrace-avfc-houllierout/
According to H&V Houllier is due as a guest of honour at a Spirit of Shankly meeting tonight
Ha ha ha.
*knowing look towards Portugal*
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http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/28/speculation-houllier-meeting-with-randy-and-comments-about-lichaj-a-disgrace-avfc-houllierout/
The usual MENSA candidates on there, I see.
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I was there today and it was horrendous. I was just surprised that we managed to keep the score down to 4 but i think that was more to Man City taking their foot off the gas more than anything. If they'd really been in the mood, it could have got very messy.
As for GH, i think he's time is up. It's not just today but we've lost to teams teams like Blackburn, Sunderland, Stoke, Blues, and even by their standards, a very poor Liverpool side and other than Man Utd at home, i can't think of a game where i've walked away thinking that we've played well.
Some things are for the best, i think GH moving on is one of them.
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And the other tradition of being a selling club.
One thing I will say is that, given current events and circumstances, if they sell Ashley Young in January, they deserve absolutely everything they get.
Selling Young in January would be a disaster for the board's relationship with the fans.
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We've also got the worst defensive record in the league. Deary me, what an absolute shambles.
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Great post Shrek, thank you.
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Would not be surprised if ash indicates he wants to leave and the board lay that as the reason for selling him- in all honesty after seeing today's shambles he is not going to stay here if he gets a chance of a top 5 club!
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I'm going to watch England win the ashes and then I want to come back on here and find that Houllier has been given the chop. Then I can sleep easy tonight
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We've also got the worst defensive record in the league. Deary me, what an absolute shambles.
And once we go behind, nil poi.
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If theres any chance of Steve Mcclaren, I might open an umbrella shop down Witton Road. Might make a fortune ;-)
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Would not be surprised if ash indicates he wants to leave and the board lay that as the reason for selling him- in all honesty after seeing today's shambles he is not going to stay here if he gets a chance of a top 5 club!
The vultures will definitely be out for Ashley Young as soon as the window opens....rest assured.
I'm going to sign off now as the 'Back GH' poll is nearing 30%.......I can't take anymore.....it'll probably be at 99% by tomorrow morning.....
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Time to watch the ashes and see the Aussies crumble- tomorrow. I may feel better after some sleep but these are very worrying times at villa park and I fear for our future- we have lost deadly doug but have we got ruthless randy? I hope so!
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We've also got the worst defensive record in the league. Deary me, what an absolute shambles.
And once we go behind, nil poi.
Yep, the list of dismal statistics is never ending. Most goals conceded, worst goal difference, least points after going behind. We're going down.
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There is absolutely no point in sacking GH. We will not be relgated we are more than good enough to stay up. Getting a new Manager in now will serve no purpose.
I suggest we keep him for now but Randy and Co should sound out Martin Jol with a view to an appoinment in the Summer if our results do not improve dramatically.
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I've so far been positive about Houllier, but if he cannot motivate the players then he must go, but wether he goes or not we still need a massive overhaul of our playing staff, so worrying times either way!
What makes today worse is Blues scored a 90th minute equaliser against Manure!
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The table doesn't lie- our points per game ratio under houllier would see us relagated - unless he is planning huge changes in January then we are in dire straits!
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There is absolutely no point in sacking GH. We will not be relgated we are more than good enough to stay up. Getting a new Manager in now will serve no purpose.
I suggest we keep him for now but Randy and Co should sound out Martin Jol with a view to an appoinment in the Summer if our results do not improve dramatically.
That makes no sense, if we wait till the summer and results haven't improved we will be in the championship.
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We will not be relgated we are more than good enough to stay up.
Nottingham Forest and Newcastle thought the same thing.
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The scary thing is we are definitely NOT good enough go stay up, as it stands anyway. No other team I've seen this year have as little team spirit and desire as us.
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Would not be surprised if ash indicates he wants to leave and the board lay that as the reason for selling him- in all honesty after seeing today's shambles he is not going to stay here if he gets a chance of a top 5 club!
I reckon he's got a contract from another club in front of him as I type - he's away and I am embarrassed that Villa has now become a selling club, something Faulkner denied, but frankly, it'll soon be undeniable.
What to do ?
Make some hard decisions Randy and sort the club out ffs
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Please, please do not think we're good enough to stay up...we simply aren't. We are a total and utter shambles at present and relegation is extremely likely and urgent action is required. Quite what that is I'm not sure but that's what Randy and his pal have to sort it out and quick.
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The scary thing is we are definitely NOT good enough go stay up, as it stands anyway. No other team I've seen this year have as little team spirit and desire as us.
Absolutely, little old Blackpool has more desire running through its veins than the shower we employ......hence, they're looking like a better bet to stay up than second city masters Aston Villa.
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My main concern when MON left was that under KM we looked like we had no leadership. I felt that is the main reason KM didn't get the job because he never showed enough passion in wanting the job.
Now we still show no leadershsip, no passion, no team spirit, no organisation. We let in silly goals and far too many late goals in either half of the match. We don't know how to put the ball in the net at the other end.
We never expected the run of injuries like we have had, which will affect the consistency.
There are too many issues for everyone to see that worries me. Nothing seems to be getting addressed.
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How can a team who've finished 6th in 3 consecutive seasons become such a dismal team? This is the question Lerner should ask Houllier, and then hand him his P45. How anyone can keep his job with a record like Houllier's is beyond me. Lerner HAS to sack him. We're going to be relegated if he stays in charge.
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Houllier just hasn't got the answers, the club is in turmoil (playing side at least) and unless Randy makes some brave decisions we're hurtling towards relegation.
Happy New Year folks!
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Staying up is dependent on getting the same point total in the second half of the season as the first. Given that we sink to new depths of uselessness with every game - that seems a bit unlikely. Also, we need 3 teams worse than us - well even the clubs around us are picking up the odd win/point so I don't think we can take any solace there either.
It all looks very grim and for those younger fans who have no experience if supporting the club outside of the EPL - believe me it's no fun whatsover but at least the media ignore you.
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shades of Tommy Doherty here only quicker and not half as funny.
What if they don't care about relegation?
They are businessmen. They will have a plan for it..I hope.
What happened to 5-year plans?
What happened to strategy and long term faith in managers capability?
We are playing some instant gratification x-box game here.
Everyone else knows best and if the m-f moves blast him.
In the current scheme of things Houllier looks doomed but what will a replacement achieve?
It has been sad watching the decline but wishing won't stop it.
Houllier needs his own set of players and respect. Mon's choice is not his fault but he is either given support to sort it or sacked and be done with it and we start the process again. The latter is no guarantee of success either.
Like the little bird in the cowpat..whistling for help only makes things worse.
I hope they know what they are doing and quietly get on with it.
Fans are there for the good times and it painful right now but continuity may pay off in the end.
Basically I can't see them sacking him now.
Docherty went on to greatest achievements subsequent to being sacked by us. He was a better communicator is all...
Sad days..hope..again ..hope things get better. Bloodletting will not help save us now.
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How can a team who've finished 6th in 3 consecutive seasons become such a dismal team? This is the question Lerner should ask Houllier, and then hand him his P45. How anyone can keep his job with a record like Houllier's is beyond me. Lerner HAS to sack him. We're going to be relegated if he stays in charge.
I am not commenting on whether Houllier should go but the same faults we are seeing now were clearly evident in the defeat at Newcastle and GH was not the manager then. The team is just too soft and capitulates too easily.
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sorry but i'm holding my nerve for now. Discounting where some people think this team should be currently, the bottom line is we've been beat by two teams in the top 4. ripping up the plans GH's made and presumably the transfer targets he has in place so someone else can be put in exactly the same position six months down the line reeks of turner/mcneil to me and we all know how that ended
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sorry but i'm holding my nerve for now. Discounting where some people think this team should be currently, the bottom line is we've been beat by two teams in the top 4. ripping up the plans GH's made and presumably the transfer targets he has in place so someone else can be put in exactly the same position six months done the line reeks of turner/mcneil to me and we all know how that ended
God.
Greg's making sense. Can today get any more surreal?
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The thing is ....most people on here, bizarrely enough, wanted the guy, or at least preferred him to others mentioned. I found that strange at the time..actually when I first heard his name linked with the Villa job, I thought it was some kind of sick joke and still do. Maybe Lerner caved in to the very vocal section of fans that wanted - a glamour foreign signing.
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The thing is ....most people on here, bizarrely enough, wanted the guy, or at least preferred him to others mentioned. I found that strange at the time..actually when I first heard his name linked with the Villa job, I thought it was some kind of sick joke and still do. Maybe Lerner caved in to the very vocal section of fans that wanted - a glamour foreign signing.
That's a contradiction, though. You say you were puzzled why people preferred him to the others on the list, but then refer to him as a glamour signing.
Think back to who was on the list. It was not impressive.
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I like GH as a bloke, but I questioned his hunger and desire after having so long out of the game. MON struggled with it too at times, but this looks like being his downfall.
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There's a rumor on Twitter that GH has gone by "mutual consent". As I said, it's a RUMOR !
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There's a rumor on Twitter that GH has gone by "mutual consent". As I said, it's a RUMOR !
On facebook, people are saying sky sports report villa are making an announcement in the morning.
Allegedly he didnt travel back on the coach!
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There's a rumor on Twitter that GH has gone by "mutual consent". As I said, it's a RUMOR !
Wouldn't be surprised if Sky Sports News have it as ''breaking news'' any second. "We've got some breaking news guys, our official and reliable source, Twitter have informed us Gerard Houllier has left Aston Villa".
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There's a rumor on Twitter that GH has gone by "mutual consent". As I said, it's a RUMOR !
Wouldn't be surprised if Sky Sports News have it as ''breaking news'' any second. "We've got some breaking news guys, our official and reliable source, Twitter have informed us Gerard Houllier has left Aston Villa".
Sky Sports News can confirm that a slavering attention seeking half wit in a council flat in Kingstanding has revealed that some bloke he went to school with for a year has announced in his Facebook status that Gerard Houllier will be sacked in the morning.
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There's a rumor on Twitter that GH has gone by "mutual consent". As I said, it's a RUMOR !
Wouldn't be surprised if Sky Sports News have it as ''breaking news'' any second. "We've got some breaking news guys, our official and reliable source, Twitter have informed us Gerard Houllier has left Aston Villa".
Something starts on Facebook, it gets written on a blog, which goes on Twitter, which is seen by someone else with a blog, which is carried by NewsNow.....
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Pauliewalnuts -I can't see any contradiction - I personally do not see GH as a glamour signing, anything but!!!! - my point is that Lerner and others may have been influenced by fans calling for glamour signings, whether they be players or managers and Lerner may have tried to appease them by appointing GH who a certain section of fans would call a glamour signing.
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Record after Houllier appointed 21/09/2010
Aston Villa 14 3 4 7 14 25 -11 13
Record after McNeill appointed 22/09/1986
Aston Villa 14 5 5 4 23 23 0 20
I just wish that I could see some sign that Gerard has a semblance of an idea of what is causing it and how he is going to put it right.
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On whose twitter site did that originate?
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The credibility of this is eroded by the tweets also saying that Lerner has put the club on the market with immediate effect. I don't believe that.
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i was non-plussed when he arrived to be honest, but we didn't really have a wide choice given the circumstances and timing. I suppose its logical to want a return to MON's style given the squad's strengths(ha!) but jesus, big sam or someone like pulis in charge to get us out of relegation trouble......if it doesn't work we'll struggle to stay in the championship - our youngsters minus the likes of young and downing would get pulverised by the average championship midfield- could do a leeds easily. As i said i'm holding my nerve. If its the same come january 31st then fuck it i'll probably join in - hell i've just come from a pub where half the punters were singing "fuck off houllier". if he goes then a new manager getting some sort of plan in place in 30 days with good signings is asking a lot. god help us....
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The credibility of this is eroded by the tweets also saying that Lerner has put the club on the market with immediate effect. I don't believe that.
You don't? Whyever not - after all, internationally-famous companies are regularly put up for sale in the small hours of a Bank Holiday.
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Its not a Bank Holiday in the USA.
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Has anyone checked ebay?
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Why Villa's dramatic decline is down to lack of investment rather than Gerard Houllier
By Oliver Holt
Published 23:02 28/12/10
Gerard Houllier is getting the blame for Aston Villa’s current plight but the club’s position in the table is not his fault. Before the start of the season, about the time Martin O’Neill left Villa Park, it became apparent that owner Randy Lerner was not willing to maintain the same level of investment in transfers as he had done before.
That is Lerner’s prerogative and there is no point damning him for his policy. Better that than the club spending beyond Lerner’s means and heading for financial ruin as so many others have done.
Still, the lesson for Lerner is that a cut in spending usually means a cut in points. It’s nothing to do with Houllier. It’s just Villa’s new reality.
The Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-Aston-Villa-dramatic-decline-is-down-to-lack-of-investment-rather-than-Gerard-Houllier-article659285.html)
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well thats a load of meaningless bobbins i must say.
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Ah, Oliver Holt, he can always be relied upon to produce an objective piece where Lerner and O'Neill are concerned.
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That is Lerner’s prerogative and there is no point damning him for his policy. Better that than the club spending beyond Lerner’s means and heading for financial ruin as so many others have done.
Still, the lesson for Lerner is that a cut in spending usually means a cut in points. It’s nothing to do with Houllier. It’s just Villa’s new reality.
The Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-Aston-Villa-dramatic-decline-is-down-to-lack-of-investment-rather-than-Gerard-Houllier-article659285.html)
Yes, because points earned vs pounds spent is a like-for-like equation.
Which is why Blackpool are twelve points adrift at the bottom of the league.
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Its not a Bank Holiday in the USA.
He's not in the USA. He's just had a meeting with Gezza and Paul Faulkner - remember?
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That is Lerner’s prerogative and there is no point damning him for his policy. Better that than the club spending beyond Lerner’s means and heading for financial ruin as so many others have done.
Still, the lesson for Lerner is that a cut in spending usually means a cut in points. It’s nothing to do with Houllier. It’s just Villa’s new reality.
The Mirror - Clicky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Oliver-Holt-column-Why-Aston-Villa-dramatic-decline-is-down-to-lack-of-investment-rather-than-Gerard-Houllier-article659285.html)
Yes, because points earned vs pounds spent is a like-for-like equation.
Which is why Blackpool are twelve points adrift at the bottom of the league.
heh heh heh. Quite. i'm also pretty sure we've spent as much as any club in the premier since GH was appointed
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Holt's piece is astoundingly naive and simplistic. I'm struggling to believe any editor would let that fly. Even for The Mirror.
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Ignore whatever Oliver Holt has to say - he's a Man City fan.
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ah come on they know its bollocks. Just trying to sell papers. probobly comes with a villa badge split down the middle to denote a crisis
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Ignore whatever Oliver Holt has to say - he's a Man City fan.
Holt is also big mates with MON - his piece is just the latest in a line of "MON was great and Villa were lucky to have him" style propaganda.
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Quite. i'm also pretty sure we've spent as much as any club in the premier since GH was appointed
I hope that this is tongue in cheek, considering no club has spent anything since Houllier was appointed.
It it's not then I part company with Greg's mentalism here and now.
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Quite. i'm also pretty sure we've spent as much as any club in the premier since GH was appointed
I hope that this is tongue in cheek, considering no club has spent anything since Houllier was appointed.
It it's not then I part company with Greg's mentalism here and now.
tongue very much in cheek. what do you take me for?
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Quite. i'm also pretty sure we've spent as much as any club in the premier since GH was appointed
I hope that this is tongue in cheek, considering no club has spent anything since Houllier was appointed.
It it's not then I part company with Greg's mentalism here and now.
tongue very much in cheek. what do you take me for?
Fair's fair Greg, you do have a considerable history for rather "out there" viewpoints. The above post made seriously wouldn't even make it into your Top 100 craziest posts.
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*refers honourable member to signature*
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The desire to be rid of Houllier is bloodlust. He is a nice guy and Randy engaged him on positive merits in his character as much as past achievements.
Nice guy and past performance is obviously not good enough for the rank and file in these dreadful economic times. Instant success or call the tumbril is the order of day.
If he#s invited out at this stage it is truely madness on Randy and co's part. If he leaves I could almost understand it. Overall he needs a year to sort matters after the state they were left in. The old squad members have mixed affiliations as Carew in particular demonstrates. Maybe Pires is sapping his authority and influence? Something is amiss in the state of Denmark for sure.
We gave Houllier the invitation. If he had any sense he merely took a sabbatical from his job with the French FA and can always go back to it.
Incipient madness is creeping into football and life in general reflects it.
What we need is a good War to put the thinking straight and get matters into a proper perspective.
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The desire to be rid of Houllier is bloodlust. He is a nice guy and Randy engaged him on positive merits in his character as much as past achievements.
Nice guy and past performance is obviously not good enough for the rank and file in these dreadful economic times. Instant success or call the tumbril is the order of day.
If he#s invited out at this stage it is truely madness on Randy and co's part. If he leaves I could almost understand it. Overall he needs a year to sort matters after the state they were left in. The old squad members have mixed affiliations as Carew in particular demonstrates. Maybe Pires is sapping his authority and influence? Something is amiss in the state of Denmark for sure.
We gave Houllier the invitation. If he had any sense he merely took a sabbatical from his job with the French FA and can always go back to it.
Incipient madness is creeping into football and life in general reflects it.
What we need is a good War to put the thinking straight and get matters into a proper perspective.
That would make sense if Houllier hadn't alienated half the dressing room and the vast majority of the fans.
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I forgot the to add the Villa is above all normal considerations, of course.
The desire to be rid of Houllier is bloodlust. He is a nice guy and Randy engaged him on positive merits in his character as much as past achievements.
Nice guy and past performance is obviously not good enough for the rank and file in these dreadful economic times. Instant success or call the tumbril is the order of day.
If he#s invited out at this stage it is truely madness on Randy and co's part. If he leaves I could almost understand it. Overall he needs a year to sort matters after the state they were left in. The old squad members have mixed affiliations as Carew in particular demonstrates. Maybe Pires is sapping his authority and influence? Something is amiss in the state of Denmark for sure.
We gave Houllier the invitation. If he had any sense he merely took a sabbatical from his job with the French FA and can always go back to it.
Incipient madness is creeping into football and life in general reflects it.
What we need is a good War to put the thinking straight and get matters into a proper perspective.
That would make sense if Houllier hadn't alienated half the dressing room and the vast majority of the fans.
Yes. and he should have half of those out, if given the chance, to re-establish his authority and AV in the league.
There is a War going on..who will win? The players or the management? The players need to win on the park..
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No moaning about how unreliable the links are, I'm just the messenger.
http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/28/rumour-randy-has-asked-houllier-to-leave-avfc-houllierout/
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Don't know whether it means anything, but I can't find any online bookmakers quoting prices on Next manager to leave.
I tried to have £50 on Skybet at 4/1 earlier, but they only let me have £27.50
Now theres no odds.
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If he has gone it is a dreadful state of affairs.
Something more deeply wrong here.
There will be no transfers in Jan, worth a damn, if he has departed.
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Much as I enjoy your writing style (very HST if I may say so) I'd be far more concerned if supporters weren't calling for GH's head at this point.
We can put our own players down more than most in the land, but this is no Dog & Duck XI, no dismal collection of journeyman pro's who could only hope to gain some sense of achievement or even a decent sequence of results by overachieving.
This is a team that finished 6th, 6th and 6th in one of the hardest leagues in the World - and possibly underachieved in doing that.
Now we're scrambling about with the likes of the Olbiyun, B-lose and other dross at the arse end of the table.
Something would be seriously, seriously remiss if Villa fans were in cruise control and actually felt this level of decline was acceptable.
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If he has gone it is a dreadful state of affairs.
Something more deeply wrong here.
There will be no transfers in Jan, worth a damn, if he has departed.
I disagree, it would give us a chance to get a decent manager better equipped for what faces us, a chance to start again by some decent players in and get the dressing room back. Thanks to MON leaving us in the lurch and an appointment that so many of us thought was the wrong one, we are in the position we are.
I feel sorry for Houllier that he's had this injury list but as has been said, from day one he's consistantly dropped clanger after clanger either on the pitch or off it. I have absolutley zero confidence in him now.
Nich chap i'm sure but not at all what we needed. Heaven forbid, what we could probably do with right now, with this squad, is someone like Big Sam. Yes, it's getting that bad.
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MoN had his own set of players and they were not good enough for the fans with 6th places.
He appears to have left because the till was locked. OK he was looking at player(s) the fans did not consider worthy of the shirt.
Players and fans calling for the management to dismiss him after a few months is a terrible indictment of the current state of the game. There is no hope of him changing anything much in 4 months. He may have been a bit inept on the PR front personally but he needs, or needed, a year in my opinion.
More players worried they will lose their £50k a week pay packages than anything imo. How much do you have to pay to incentivise them?
Man City who seemingly have bottomless pockets were Houllier's nemisis
I am no expert but I know there is something more amiss here than mere personality clashes.
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I do not believe for one second that Randy would sack GH at this time. We have already lost one Manager with dreadful timing (all because that Manager could not have the moon on a stick), to think that Randy would throw us into further turmoil is just not likely in my opinion. We are almost certainly working right now on agreed potential signings and there will be agreement between GH and Randy on what we need, what we can look to get and what, if we can, sell on asap.
Yes, today was awful. Liverpool away was awful. Some of GH comments have been less than great (Liverpool away).
But coming into a club where a seasoned, experienced athlete says he is not fit (Carew), another is clealy not fit (Dunne) and a few who seem to have big wages and little heart gives any new Manager an up hill battle. Add to that injuries and yes people are saying , well they are back now and we are still crap- lets remember some have been back for one or two games, the team has had more variations in line up than the Four Tops- this will all take a bit of time to get right. I just hope he can get it right soon.
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It has been over for Houllier since the Liverpool game probably even earlier. What we are witnessing now is a predictable long goodbye. Randy Lerner knows that his investment in AVFC is upshit creek if we go down which we seem certain to at the moment. This we have to give the man a year bullshit is clearly that. He took over a decent bunch of players maybe on the wane but for us to be scrabbling around the relegation zone in one of the worst EPL seasons in recent memory takes some doing.
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I don't blame Lerner. I was surprised by the appointment of Houllier it's true. But after reflection could see that Lerner and co wanted to build on the sixth place and find a way into the top four.
Our complaint as fans was that under MoN we were too "English" is style and until we became more creative would never go any further.
Houllier fitted the demand for a successful, European minded Manager with a good pedigree, with a top club, in England. Unusual CV. And in theory just what we needed.
Now - Houllier is his own worst enemy, lost games, lost the fans, lost the dressing room and probably the board. Sack the bloody minded Frog and especially his- cardboard cut out -sidekick who never achieved anything. IMHO.
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If you take it to to ultimate perspective then someone at the top took their eye off the road a long time back and we've been swerving between disaster and chaos for who knows how long.
If you ask how it was allowed to happen then Randy has to answer eventually.
The chicken farmers must be eyeing us up by now.
There must be a rich Chinese conglomerate out there looking for a prestigious club who can give them cache and us access to 1bn extra supporters.
Someone has to carry the can for the shambles. Houllier, if he alone goes, willl merely be the fall guy.
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When he does go I hope we don't pay the fucker compensation
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Its alarming and depressing how the balance has changed after one game, one we never expected to win.
I can excuse players like Petrov who have returned after long injury problems and are thrust by neccessity into the battle. Some can hardly be match fit and may not be for a few weeks yet. The majority though, if Dunne and Carew had any guts and proffessionalism they would be pleading to be put back the squad to help the cause. The fact is some players do not respect the club, the owner, the manager and most of all the supporters. I have often had a dig at Ash because i think he is capable of so much more but one thing i've never seen him do is lose his desire to win. Keep him as captain for now he's the only one worthy.
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It has been over for Houllier since the Liverpool game probably even earlier. What we are witnessing now is a predictable long goodbye. Randy Lerner knows that his investment in AVFC is upshit creek if we go down which we seem certain to at the moment. This we have to give the man a year bullshit is clearly that. He took over a decent bunch of players maybe on the wane but for us to be scrabbling around the relegation zone in one of the worst EPL seasons in recent memory takes some doing.
Agreed, although the Liverpool game for me was more about the abject performance than any of the other stuff. The Baggies aside, it's been more of the same ever since, and for all GH's talk of "turning a corner" it's getting harder to believe the team will do so. I think the rumored press conference this morning will be to put the manager out of his misery, and if it isn't, it will be before much longer.
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THere seems an overwhelming tide against him now. I hope we beat Chelsea and he proves everyone wrong because I strangely like him. Don't think he will mind. Don't get inspired by Jol, or Allardyce. And lets face it the latter would be the obvious choice.
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Back him. Sacking a manager after four months is ridiculous if you have any confidence in the process that brought him here. Yes, things are bad. Things are very bad. But Houllier has been in a crisis before; he is as unlikely to get us relegated as Big Sam. With Houllier there is at least hope that he, in time, will build a capable side. With Big Sam all we can look forward to is five seasons of hard to beat-dross masquerading as football leading to mid-table positions at best.
Some patience, eh? Note: we are not in the relegation zone.
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We are in a relegation battle 3 wins in 14 we are fucked
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In my mind there is no doubt that the board made a terrible error in judgement in getting Houllier in, which compounded the previous error of judgement of giving MON far too much autonomy. There is no way in a million years that, having made this terrible decision they will then panic and get rid after such a short tenure.
Like it or not and not matter what the consequences are for us, Houllier is going nowhere right now and given that, I am now increasing worried about our survival in the Premiership AND make no bones about it, relegation would be an utter and total disaster in every possible shape and form.
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It's not like we have never experienced this kind of form before in recent history. In the last 14 Premier League matches of the 2008-09 season we had 2 wins, 5 draws and 7 defeats.
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Yes but we had points on th board to stand that bad run then, we do not have that luxury this time.
How many more players does he need to fall out with?
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It's a valid point that we have had this run of results in recent seasons but usually beginning in march- if houllier stays he really has to get the troublemakers out and fast- if that means Ireland and dunne onnloan so be it but get rid of them and Carew and maybe the poison will be gone- also friedal wasn't very happy with geds appointment if we believe the press as he and warnock were cleared out by GED at Liverpool.
Friedal is past it and I'd get rid now - bring a few new faces in and we have a chance but for god sake clear out the rabble that are being paid fortunes and doing nothing for the club.
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Back him. Sacking a manager after four months is ridiculous if you have any confidence in the process that brought him here. Yes, things are bad. Things are very bad. But Houllier has been in a crisis before; he is as unlikely to get us relegated as Big Sam. With Houllier there is at least hope that he, in time, will build a capable side. With Big Sam all we can look forward to is five seasons of hard to beat-dross masquerading as football leading to mid-table positions at best.
Some patience, eh? Note: we are not in the relegation zone.
Indeed, a slightly poorer version of the O'Neill years. No thanks!
I think we can all make our comments on the Houllier situation, but without any of us really knowing what is going on behind the scenes it's pissing in the wind somewhat. I personally worry that 6 years away from this league is making it tough for him to get back into, and we need a younger manager with fresh ideas and recent experience of it all, who will not be afraid to think outside of the box in the transfer market getting some decent value for money (unlike O'Neill).
My other concern is that Lerner and Houllier have agreed to ship out that much of the shit over the next 6 months or so that if many of those players are aware of it, it is destabilizing the whole squad. But that is just another theory really.
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Yes but we had points on th board to stand that bad run then, we do not have that luxury this time.
How many more players does he need to fall out with?
As many as it takes to weed out all the journey men.
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To those who want to give GH time, I would like to ask a genuine question, I'm not being funny or picky, but would like to know what have you seen that makes you believe that more time and more games will improve things for the manager at the club ?
It can't be that the transfer window will bring in loads of new, hungry determined players that will magically turn things for us.
What is it that gives you the faith that we won't get trapped in this relegation battle we are now in ?
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As many as it takes to weed out all the journey men.
Ok but Albrighton & Lichaj do not fall into that catergory
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What is it that gives you the faith that we won't get trapped in this relegation battle we are now in ?
We are in it no matter what and a change of manager will not change things and will only serve to prevent us getting anyone in come January.
For whatever reason and as already discussed in another thread, our senior players have simply given up and the burden is sitting firmly in the laps of our young,possibly very talented, but still young kids. It is the senior players who need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves how they can sleep at night earning the money they do and performing as they are. I cannot see a new manager waving a magic wand and altering this.
There is no way in hell that Houllier is going anywhere right now as Randy and the board will be desperate to maintain their credibility at making appointments.
As fans we have two options, spur on the team and hope that we can muster enough points against the dross to avoid the trap door, or give up and watch the club slide into oblivion. I know which one I'd prefer no matter what my feelings towards Houllier and certain players are.
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What is it that gives you the faith that we won't get trapped in this relegation battle we are now in ?
We are in it no matter what and a change of manager will not change things and will only serve to prevent us getting anyone in come January.
For whatever reason and as already discussed in another thread, our senior players have simply given up and the burden is sitting firmly in the laps of our young,possibly very talented, but still young kids. It is the senior players who need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves how they can sleep at night earning the money they do and performing as they are. I cannot see a new manager waving a magic wand and altering this.
There is no way in hell that Houllier is going anywhere right now as Randy and the board will be desperate to maintain their credibility at making appointments.
As fans we have two options, spur on the team and hope that we can muster enough points against the dross to avoid the trap door, or give up and watch the club slide into oblivion. I know which one I'd prefer no matter what my feelings towards Houllier and certain players are.
Absolutely spot on.
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As I said yesterday, Who in their right mind is going to want to come?
All the top players will want to leave
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As I said yesterday, Who in their right mind is going to want to come?
All the top players will want to leave
have we got any top players ? I cant count too many
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Holt's piece is astoundingly naive and simplistic. I'm struggling to believe any editor would let that fly. Even for The Mirror.
No, he's not - he's a Stockport fan. Still a twat, mind
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What is it that gives you the faith that we won't get trapped in this relegation battle we are now in ?
We are in it no matter what and a change of manager will not change things and will only serve to prevent us getting anyone in come January.
For whatever reason and as already discussed in another thread, our senior players have simply given up and the burden is sitting firmly in the laps of our young,possibly very talented, but still young kids. It is the senior players who need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves how they can sleep at night earning the money they do and performing as they are. I cannot see a new manager waving a magic wand and altering this.
There is no way in hell that Houllier is going anywhere right now as Randy and the board will be desperate to maintain their credibility at making appointments.
As fans we have two options, spur on the team and hope that we can muster enough points against the dross to avoid the trap door, or give up and watch the club slide into oblivion. I know which one I'd prefer no matter what my feelings towards Houllier and certain players are.
I agree to a point. But you are telling me about your feelings and how you will continue to support the club because you won't turn against the club (the same as most of us).
My question is, what is is that people have seen in GH that make them believe HE can turn our fortunes around.
To my eyes, things have got progressively worse. Defensively we are a shambles, in midfield we are lightweight and overrun, and upfront we are lacklustre and totally ineffective.
I have seen nothing in GH's tactics, team selections and more importantly, motivational skills that suggest that he can motivate the overpaid bunch of arse's that represent us at this time.
If he can't do a manager's job, then its time to cut him loose.
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I'm losing patience quicker than I should, I still believe we need to give him until the summer, it's absurd to sack a manager without giving him the chance to bring in some players of his own liking, he inherited a bad situation, caused by MON who left at a time to cause maximum damage.
However, the pathetic defensive displays just go on and on, we don't close the opposition down, we don't track runners, we don't do the basics and you have to look at the tactics and the coaching here and Houllier has to address this, we have been piss poor defensively all season, this is why I'm losing patience with him, we have decent defenders but something is woefully wrong with how they're defending.
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I still think Houllier can do the job, and long term he's the best option for it, but my concern is that it will take too long for him to change the personnel enough to impose the style of football he wants.
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If he does not go, and while I understand and sympathise with all the cases for not being hasty and giving the man more time when time is something we do not have - I have seen nothing which suggests he is the man to save our Premiership status.
Which is more important, being fair and responsible and doing the decent thing by a manager who seems a nice man or staying in the top flight? Before you even start to think how impossible it is to claw your way back to me it is a no brainer.
I would accept Vlad the Impaler or Pedro the Cruel or Ivan the Terrible or Paul Daniels as manager of our team if it preserved our Premiership survival. It is too big a prize to piss away being decent and thoughtful and reflective and honourable and all the things used as excuses for failure.
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If he does not go, and while I understand and sympathise with all the cases for not being hasty and giving the man more time when time is something we do not have - I have seen nothing which suggests he is the man to save our Premiership status.
Which is more important, being fair and responsible and doing the decent thing by a manager who seems a nice man or staying in the top flight? Before you even start to think how impossible it is to claw your way back to me it is a no brainer.
I would accept Vlad the Impaler or Pedro the Cruel or Ivan the Terrible or Paul Daniels as manager of our team if it preserved our Premiership survival. It is too big a prize to piss away being decent and thoughtful and reflective and honourable and all the things used as excuses for failure.
I agree with that.
But not about Paul Daniels.
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I'm losing patience quicker than I should, I still believe we need to give him until the summer, it's absurd to sack a manager without giving him the chance to bring in some players of his own liking, he inherited a bad situation, caused by MON who left at a time to cause maximum damage.
However, the pathetic defensive displays just go on and on, we don't close the opposition down, we don't track runners, we don't do the basics and you have to look at the tactics and the coaching here and Houllier has to address this, we have been piss poor defensively all season, this is why I'm losing patience with him, we have decent defenders but something is woefully wrong with how they're defending.
I agree,but it worries me how bad our battling and defending has become. In no way am i comparing the two,but when M'ON took over he inherited some young and some average players before he bought Petrov in,but he made us a hard working team,and we done the basic things well.
GH has been in the game long enough to know you have to do this first with a new team,and though some of the players should be moved on,theyre still good enough to do these basic duties.
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To those who want to give GH time, I would like to ask a genuine question, I'm not being funny or picky, but would like to know what have you seen that makes you believe that more time and more games will improve things for the manager at the club ?
This is a position I am slowly getting to myself.
Yes, sacking someone after 4 months is ridiculous on the face of things, but I think what we are seeing is us getting worse and not better. We all said once the injuries clear up we'll be better, yet over the last few games we've had Delph, Petrov, NRC and Heskey back, yet performances have been as bad as any under Houllier.
Do I want him sacked? Yes, although it would be so unfair that were it my decision I'd give him more time to turn it around.
Do I think he will turn it around? Increasingly no.
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We have no choice but to support, no matter what our feelings are. For the sake of the kids who do care we have to stick with them.
I think GH has got a monumental job on his hands to try and get the overpaid senior morons at the club to find an modicum of form or pride in the job they do in order to relieve the burden on the kids and collect enough points to finish outside the bottom 3. Do I think he's good enough, possibly, possibly not? However, the question remains redundant because the board won't pull the trigger and that's why right now I am extremely depressed about the sorry state of the club.
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I would have liked to have given Houllier at least a season and a couple of transfer windows for him to mould his own team. If we were muddling around mid-table right now, that's exactly what I'd like. But we're not. We're in free-fall and it's in no small part down to him. Whatever he has done, he's managed to turn players against him. They clearly do not want to play for him - you have to be blind not to be able to see that. And since players hold all the power in the game these days, it simply spells the end for him. Sooner or later, he'll have to go. So why waste time in an impossible situation? He has to go now so we can try to turn this around.
All that stuff about doing the decent thing, believing in the manager and giving him a fair chance has gone out of the window because of player power. We either wake up to it - immediately - or we pay the consequences. The attitudes of our players stink like shit, yet they have the basic ability to get us out of this mess. We need a manager who can get those players to apply their ability until we are safe, then we can start clearing them out if necessary and rebuild. Transition I will accept, relegation I can't.
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It is a sorry state Neil. I am absolutely convinced that Houllier will get us relegated, such has been the negative impact on the club since his arrival. A change would be another upheaval I agree, but would at least give us a chance of staying up. Under Houllier I think we'll end up in a Sunderland from a few seasons ago total collapse.
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The negative impact upon his arrival has been massive. I think it's time we cut our losses now and get rid before the situation gets worse. We still havent hit rock bottom yet. We need a serious motivator to come in and lift the players for the remainder of the season. We are now clearly in a relagation battle. I hate to say it but Big Sam could be that man. He's been in this situation before so knows what needs to be done. On the plus side, he has fantastic scouting contacts.
Though, I'm still convinced we could get Coyle at Villa Park if we offer Garside a good package.
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I would have liked to have given Houllier at least a season and a couple of transfer windows for him to mould his own team. If we were muddling around mid-table right now, that's exactly what I'd like. But we're not. We're in free-fall and it's in no small part down to him. Whatever he has done, he's managed to turn players against him. They clearly do not want to play for him - you have to be blind not to be able to see that. And since players hold all the power in the game these days, it simply spells the end for him. Sooner or later, he'll have to go. So why waste time in an impossible situation? He has to go now so we can try to turn this around.
All that stuff about doing the decent thing, believing in the manager and giving him a fair chance has gone out of the window because of player power. We either wake up to it - immediately - or we pay the consequences. The attitudes of our players stink like shit, yet they have the basic ability to get us out of this mess. We need a manager who can get those players to apply their ability until we are safe, then we can start clearing them out if necessary and rebuild. Transition I will accept, relegation I can't.
Well said
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I am absolutely convinced that Houllier will get us relegated
I'm not - I think we've enough winnable home game in the 2nd half of the season to gbet enough points to be a PL side in 2011/2012. What I'm not convinced about is his ability to get us back to where we were, as in top 6 and challenging for top 4, no matter what Randy gives him to spend.
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I think the Sunderland and Sheff Utd games are a crucial test of the team's mettle and Houllier's abilities to turn things around. Ideally, we should be going to Chelsea, who are probably on a worse run that us, and put them under pressure and fancy some sort of result but I can see nothing but capitulation again. If we can't get results though at the games that follow, the club must seriously question whether he is able to fix this - or that the players want to be fixed by him.
There is something seriously wrong when a squad which was admittedly greater than the sum of its parts under MON is way below what it was achieving. I'm sure Houllier was a decent candidate for a job which should have involved gradually weeding out some high earners on the fringes and bringing on some youngsters - with the club comfortably midtable knocking on the door of Europe again. But he doesn't look like a man to get us out of a downward spiral or help us "kick on" - a phrase laughingly used by some fans who thought last season was sterile. OK, he has not been helped by injuries to key players (I'd like to know if the new training regime is a factor here) but I'm flabbergasted that week after week our defence is disorganised and we appear demotivated. He might be a nice guy, we might consider ourselves a "nice" club, but sorry, he's getting paid a huge salary and failure is not an option.
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so we're faced with sacking the manager and sticking with the players who've shown no passion for the team and even less technical ability in the hope someone else can at least get them playing a bit? not much of an option is it? They could be just as useless under a new manager
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Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.
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so we're faced with sacking the manager and sticking with the players who've shown no passion for the team and even less technical ability in the hope someone else can at least get them playing a bit? not much of an option is it? They could be just as useless under a new manager
They weren't just as useless under the last manager.
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oh a lot of them were. thats why MON didn't play 'em
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I am absolutely convinced that Houllier will get us relegated
I'm not - I think we've enough winnable home game in the 2nd half of the season to gbet enough points to be a PL side in 2011/2012. What I'm not convinced about is his ability to get us back to where we were, as in top 6 and challenging for top 4, no matter what Randy gives him to spend.
I think that the West Brom game demonstrates that we can just about hold on. It does not alter a single thing, but I agree that we have just about enough in the tank to at least maintain our PL status. I wouldn't want to bet my house on it though and the Fulham game in a few weeks is surely the litmus test.
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oh a lot of them were. thats why MON didn't play 'em
We can argue about the merits, or lack thereof, of our previous manager until we're blue in the face, but for whatever reason he did get more out of this group than Houllier has thus far.
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some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.
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some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.
Downing and Heskey's perfomances have been better under GH, but we won't finish 6th again.
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Heskeys and downings performances have been the same. Just everyone has been sh*tter. therefore making them look better....
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Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.
I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.
That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.
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my thoughts is the team was on the way out and MON knew it. We'd lost our best player and replaced him with Ireland - that says it all. too many in the team are past it or never good enough. Given the injuries as well 6th was never going to happen under MON this season anyway. Houlliers probably brought that realisation forward but the days of this team finishing 6th are long over whoever tries to get the best out of 'em
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some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.
I think Downing was always going to be better than last season given a full pre-season. I agree Heskey looks better under Houllier. But although we can talk through the pro and cons of various players, the simple truth is take away Milner from last season and we wouldn't have slipped from 6th to a relegation fight, which is what has effectively happened.
So on balance MON got more out of them than Houllier has.
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Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.
I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.
That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.
I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.
Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.
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you don't know that john. faced with the injuries who would MON have played? probably not the youngsters. A lot would have hinged on him getting some sort of form out of Ireland. Maybe he would have, but to think we'd be up in 6th given the same circumstances is pushing credibility IMO
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you don't know that john. faced with the injuries who would MON have played? probably not the youngsters. A lot would have hinged on him getting some sort of form out of Ireland. Maybe he would have, but to think we'd be up in 6th given the same circumstances is pushing credibility IMO
It would be wrong to expect us to be 6th after the injuries we've had, i think everyone would agree with that, but i doubt we were expecting to be 1 point off relegation going into the new year.
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some he did, some he didn't .neither downing or heskey were any good under MON, this season they've been more consistant. people like luke young, nrc were frozen out. Sidwells always been awful. the 4 or 5 like Dunne and Warnock who've been crap under Houllier and Mcdonald aren't really any sort nucleus to build on.
I think Downing was always going to be better than last season given a full pre-season. I agree Heskey looks better under Houllier. But although we can talk through the pro and cons of various players, the simple truth is take away Milner from last season and we wouldn't have slipped from 6th to a relegation fight, which is what has effectively happened.
So on balance MON got more out of them than Houllier has.
The difference is that Houllier finds himself trying to get results out of them when he's been parachuted in at the start of the season to a club in turmoil and is bringing in an entirely new coaching team, with different methods. MON was our manager for four years.
I'm as unimpressed by Houllier as the next man, but it is naive to expect him to get as much / the same out of the players in a few months as the previous guy did in four years.
I could also point out that - whether he was forced to or not - Houllier has got a lot more out of several players who MON would not have used. Lichaj, Albrighton, Bannan, for starters.
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Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.
I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.
That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.
I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.
Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.
There is no mid table at the moment though, there's the top 5 and everyone else. It's so compressed that Blackpool in 8th are only 6 ponts above the relegation places.
As I said, I think we need to keep a sense of perspective.
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
We've been in relegation scraps before so we know it is needed, stomach of the fight, a united front, grafters in the side, some luck. We've none of these qualities anymore have we.
Personally, based on recent performances, I have no faith in this Mnager or many of the players right now which is why RAL needs to have a long hard think about whther we make a change and quickly.
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It's all very well and good getting performances from individual players. But unless you get results from the team of players as a whole, it all counts for nothing. With each demoralising defeat, you'll see the confidence of those individuals steadily disappear, which in turn will make the team less likely to get results. I'd rather have 11 mediocre performances from a team that grinds out results, than one or two good performances in a team that habitually loses and accepts it as the norm.
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Jimbo is spot on. In a situation where we were not haunted by the possibility of relegation, most of us would give GH more time. We just don't have that luxury - there is no evidence whatsoever that he can turn things around. To think otherwise is just delusion. Villa can go down and will go down if GH is still with us on 1st February.
I honestly don't think we will. If the Wigan game had gone ahead I think we'd have carried on from the Baggies game and taken another 3 points and we'd now be 11th in the table. There are 6 points covering the teams from 8th to 18th. That shows that we're not the only ones who are showing less than brilliant form.
That's not to say that there aren't problems but it pays to keep a sense of perspective.
I think bearing in mind our away form, there's no guarantees that we would have beaten Wigan had it gone ahead. I've mentioned this in another thread but we've also lost to the likes of Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland, Blues and a piss poor Liverpool side, all games we should at least be getting a point from or in the case of the Blues Cup game, a draw after 90 mins.
Like someone else has said on here somewhere, mid-table transistion is fine, but fighting relegation is not.
There is no mid table at the moment though, there's the top 5 and everyone else. It's so compressed that Blackpool in 8th are only 6 ponts above the relegation places.
As I said, I think we need to keep a sense of perspective.
I know exactly where you're coming from Chris, but the main problem is we're playing bloody awful and don't seem to have any confidence whatsoever, whereas the likes of Blackpool are looking a decent hardworking side and picking up points where you would'nt expect them to. Losing games like we are becomes a habit, which is very hard to get out of. Sheff Utd in the cup could well be another Doncaster.
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The way GH's tenure has gone so far means we will have a 6th place spot next season... but only in the championship. We are in deep trouble, especially when players who previously put in a shift have stopped giving a sh1t. And player motivation has to start with the manager.
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The lack of confidence in the side is worrying but that often happens when your playing kids. Still like him at least to get a chance to bring in some reinforcements. I mean look at our bench against citeh - if that doesn't tell you all you need to know about the present state of the squad then nothing will If things don't improve in the next month then maybe call it quits as we'd still have time to escape relegation.
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but greg you say, if things don't improve next month, we should get rid..so you are suggesting to give his new signings about four games then...
If we are going to get rid it has to be now, around end of feb/ or in the summer..
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to be honest if we're just relying on his january signings to come good then we're in trouble. But i hope it will at least give him the options to try something different. As i said look at our bench against citeh - 5 kids and an OAP.
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you don't know that john. faced with the injuries who would MON have played? probably not the youngsters. A lot would have hinged on him getting some sort of form out of Ireland. Maybe he would have, but to think we'd be up in 6th given the same circumstances is pushing credibility IMO
I didn't say we'd be 6th, I said we wouldn't have slipped this far.
It's all accademic and opinion only, but I'll leave it there as OzVilla is right - this is about our current manager and not our last one!
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that's an interesting point because I think nearly everyone on here is relying on his January signings...
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If randy does back him he has to give him another few months at least to let new signings bed in or get rid now- no point giving it till feb!
If houlier stays we need lots of transfer activity in and out and must get rid of the poison players stirring shit up- dunne seemed happy and fine till Ireland turned up here and Carew has past history with GED as does friedal and warnock.
No surprise the performances of those 5 have been utterly abysmal- friedal has conceded more goals than any other keeper and should be moved on as well, way past his sell by date.
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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that's an interesting point because I think nearly everyone on here is relying on his January signings...
We can't expect a huge influx in Jan, 2 at most that would be first team regulars, so in that respect we do need some of our existing players to pick their games up also.
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The injuries have had far more of an impact that MON leaving. If We'd had anything like a full strength squad to chose from over the past few months then I reckon we'd be 5-6 points better off and looking up not down.
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that's an interesting point because I think nearly everyone on here is relying on his January signings...
well they can do the trick as MON did in his first season. Personally i think some of the kids need to be taken out the firing line so thats a priority and hopefully a few faces to replace the can't play/won't play mob. He's still have to get more out of some of the existing players though
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Sack him.....just have a look what happened to the French team at the world cup? He obviously cannot man-manage or inspire a team when they are down?
I know he wasn't head coach...but surely he was part of the problem and could have used his skills to help the team....if he had any?
Just get rid !
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that's an interesting point because I think nearly everyone on here is relying on his January signings...
We can't expect a huge influx in Jan, 2 at most that would be first team regulars, so in that respect we do need some of our existing players to pick their games up also.
I think that who leaves will be more important than who arrives, to be honest. I suspect Houllier is going to be rather ruthless in shipping some out. I am just holding on to the thought that it will be for 'the greater good' of the club.
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i was flicking through the sport channels this morning to see what was on and i ended up on LFC and it was showing a match from a few years back when houllier was in charge against Derby and the passion he was showing on the touch line, it was like he wanted to be every player playing for Liverpool and when Derby scored against them his head was in his hands and and he genuinely looked gutted!!
i know he has had the heart problems and been away from the game for a while but his whole mannerism for Villa is nothing but shocking!! yes i think give him time to let him build his own team but i also think is his heart in it anymore???
i am torn 50/50 but we need to see some big money in January or if not see some spirit!!
and it's not all Houllier's fault as we all know but the blame always stops with the Manager!
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Sorry, but I think you can divorce the two.
If you look at where we were when Houllier arrived, the squad was, at least in the face of it, behind K-Mac and their were no fallouts like we've seen with Dunne and Ireland. We were also in the top half (I think) and certainly looking better then we do now.
So whatever turmoil we had has only been increased since he took over, and that at least cannot be blamed on MON, although I'm sure some will try to!
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if that squad was behind K-Mac then how come he's not in charge. the sad truth is they were as supportive to him as they've been to Houllier
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Sorry, but I think you can divorce the two.
If you look at where we were when Houllier arrived, the squad was, at least in the face of it, behind K-Mac and their were no fallouts like we've seen with Dunne and Ireland. We were also in the top half (I think) and certainly looking better then we do now.
So whatever turmoil we had has only been increased since he took over, and that at least cannot be blamed on MON, although I'm sure some will try to!
A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
It's also very well to say the players were on the face of it all behind KM, but they went to a newly promoted side and got beaten 6-0, so I'm not quite sure I buy that one.
There is clearly an atmosphere in the dressing room which is not a good one. I reckon the new management team have done some things to make it considerably worse, but it must surely go back to the manager leaving when he did.
I am not making any suggestion that everything that has happened is MON's fault, far from it, but at the same time, I think anyone who suggests we are just pretending it had a major effect is crazy.
Nice crazy, but crazy still.
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
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Sack him.....just have a look what happened to the French team at the world cup? He obviously cannot man-manage or inspire a team when they are down?
I know he wasn't head coach...but surely he was part of the problem and could have used his skills to help the team....if he had any?
Just get rid !
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but assigning blame of Houllier for France in the last World Cup is akin to blaming Trevor Brooking for England also being shite.
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
*shakes Walnuts' hand*
It was nice knowing you.
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Like Chris has said, the injury list has had more of an impact on the season than MON leaving when he did. Whilst the timing of his departure was a disruption, continuing to bring it up is wearing a bit thin.
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The injuries have had far more of an impact that MON leaving. If We'd had anything like a full strength squad to chose from over the past few months then I reckon we'd be 5-6 points better off and looking up not down.
It's an interesting point when you look at where those 5-6 points would put us in the league. But would that just be papering over the cracks? Or are those cracks only appearing as results are so bad?
And another thing - we've all been quite excited about the kids coming through, but if we're saying the injured players would have had us further up the league, does this mean the kids may not be as good as we all hope??
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I accept MON's role in all this, but he's gone. We can't do anything about him now because he inelegantly dropped us in the shit when he fucked off. What we should have done was appoint somebody who could deal with the aftermath. I know, it was an extremely difficult appointment. However, on the current evidence, we failed to appoint the right person.
Now we have Houllier - a manager the players appear not to want to play for. We can do something about it. But we have to act before it's too late. I wish things were different, but short of replacing our entire senior squad in January with Houllier's chosen men, we're going to have to deal with the problem by more conventional means. And timing here is of the essence, because we're right on the precipice, and January will see us either move towards safety or fall. Is anyone really willing to gamble on Houllier turning it around after what we've seen in recent weeks?
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if we've got a them/us situation in the dressing room then frankly we're buggered. Any new signings will be frozen out by the old guard and we'll get relegated. Read about it happening at others clubs and until you can ship out the troublemakers the whole club is poisoned. Houllier won't be able to ship out 5-6 players so we better hope its only 1 or 2 bad apples
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
*shakes Walnuts' hand*
It was nice knowing you.
Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.
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In trying to turn us (allegedly) into a more professional outfit with 'proper' training drills etc, he has so far made us look like one of the most unprofessional sides on the pitch you could imagine.
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
*shakes Walnuts' hand*
It was nice knowing you.
Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.
"Today is a good day to bury bad news."
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
*shakes Walnuts' hand*
It was nice knowing you.
Is today not the day to admit that I find listening to Dennis Mortimer quite difficult sometimes.
I read yesterday that 350,000 fatwas have been issued this year by the General Assembly of Islamic Affairs and Endowment. I fear we may reach that figure on our own.
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.
But that seems to fly against your opening post on your own thread. I think if I infer it correctly you are saying players should be able to get on with it no matter what. So MO'Ns departure, or the timing of it shouldn't matter.
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But that seems to fly against your opening post on your own thread. I think if I infer it correctly you are saying players should be able to get on with it no matter what. So MO'Ns departure, or the timing of it shouldn't matter.
As I said there, it's not just a Villa thing. They should be able to perform better, but they don't.
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Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.
He left us 6th with a hard to beat side. Had the board acted quicker (admittedly hard) or more aggressively (as in approaching someone already in a job) then maybe we would have had more choices and some of the transfer window left.
His departure was a problem, but not something that should see us where we are now, although I agree injuries have also had an effect on this. But everything that has happened since he walked out the door is down to the board and the new man they appointed.
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We haven't got 5 or 6 more points though, and even that's not really the point. Are we going to get enough points under Houllier to stay up? The evidence to date suggests not.
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He left us 6th with a hard to beat side. Had the board acted quicker (admittedly hard) or more aggressively (as in approaching someone already in a job) then maybe we would have had more choices and some of the transfer window left.
I like the way you drop that in as if it's a fact that they didn't approach people in jobs.
Also, I wonder how easy it is to quicky convince managers to leave their current club and join you five days before the start of the season.
I'm guessing the answer is "not very". It's the same thing we're seeing across this forum, people demanding we sack Houllier now, which is all well and good, but totally unable to face what happens when we do that - as in, what happens tomorrow? Who do we approach? Who do we get in? How long will it take?
The most convincing replies i've seen involve Sam Allardyce, so there's really not much further need to comment on that.
I'm as pissed off with Houllier as the next man, and I too can sense the juggernaut of doom starting to gather pace, but whilst it is tempting to lash out and sack him, we'd only put ourselves in an even worse version of the situation the previous incumbent dropped us in in August. Pointless.
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Apart from the injuries he left us in exactly the state we are in now. He's the reason we had to choose a manager from a limited selection wirh the new man unable to do anything about the playing squad. Not all, but much of it is his fault.
He left us 6th with a hard to beat side. Had the board acted quicker (admittedly hard) or more aggressively (as in approaching someone already in a job) then maybe we would have had more choices and some of the transfer window left.
His departure was a problem, but not something that should see us where we are now, although I agree injuries have also had an effect on this. But everything that has happened since he walked out the door is down to the board and the new man they appointed.
He left us with no points, and level in the table with everyone else. The season was about to start. No manager worth appointing and who was in a job would have joined us at that time. You cannot get around those facts.
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While we are on the subject of the departure again, does anyone now believe he timed it to cause us this much damage?
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While we are on the subject of the departure again, does anyone now believe he timed it to cause us this much damage?
Do you reckon he's upset about it now?
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While we are on the subject of the departure again, does anyone now believe he timed it to cause us this much damage?
If it were proved it wouldn't be the biggest shock I ever had.
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In trying to turn us (allegedly) into a more professional outfit with 'proper' training drills etc, he has so far made us look like one of the most unprofessional sides on the pitch you could imagine.
That's what I can't get my head round, for all this double training, wanting to play a more passing game, we are a complete shambles.
Our threat from set pieces has gone, as has our ability to defend them, if all John Robertson did was lean on the post smoking a woodbine, can't we ask Gary Mac to take up smoking because it seemed to work.
At least Billy Mac left us Warren Aspinall, what's Houllier's legacy going to be ?
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James Milner left us a week into the season and was applauded onto the pitch by some of our fans yesterday. Could it be argued he left us in the lurch as well?
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We got no inclination at the Valencia game, however, that was as flat as a very flat pancake, then it all kicked off at the end of the weekend. I just find it hard to fathom that even he could be that vindictive and calculating but there is evidence pointing to it.
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We haven't got 5 or 6 more points though, and even that's not really the point. Are we going to get enough points under Houllier to stay up? The evidence to date suggests not.
I said if we'd had anything like a full strength squad to choose from. The evidence to date doesn't help in that respect. This is the worst run of injuries I have ever known in my time following the Villa and I'm ancient. Every time we've had a decent performance we've lost a couple more from that side the following week. I think any manager new to a club would have struggled with what he's had to deal with. We're just starting to get some players back now, he's also got the transfer window to make his own mark on the squad. We'll know much more about him in a couple of months.
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
I do think, though, that up front with Carew's susceptibility to bending his hair or cutting himself shaving thus ruling him out, and Heskey, despite actually putting the odd decent performance in this year, being the easiest injured man mountain alive, we have got to move these two on and replace them with more sturdy options.
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He left us with no points, and level in the table with everyone else. The season was about to start. No manager worth appointing and who was in a job would have joined us at that time. You cannot get around those facts.
I like the way you drop that in as if it's a fact that they didn't approach people in jobs.
Also, I wonder how easy it is to quicky convince managers to leave their current club and join you five days before the start of the season.
I'm guessing the answer is "not very". It's the same thing we're seeing across this forum, people demanding we sack Houllier now, which is all well and good, but totally unable to face what happens when we do that - as in, what happens tomorrow? Who do we approach? Who do we get in? How long will it take?
While none of us know who we approached or how we approached them, what we can be sure of is that on current evidence we got the wrong man.
Were it me, I would have made a big move for Jol and paid whatever compensation Ajax wanted. he walked out a few months later, so things can't have been 100% right for him there and I think the lure of a club like Villa (6th place and a generous chairman) would havwe got him to jump ship.
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We got no inclination at the Valencia game, however, that was as flat as a very flat pancake, then it all kicked off at the end of the weekend. I just find it hard to fathom that even he could be that vindictive and calculating but there is evidence pointing to it.
Wasn't that the game Walford was the only one on the bench, I think MON and Robertson were watching from the stand, which I thought was odd at the time.
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We haven't got 5 or 6 more points though, and even that's not really the point. Are we going to get enough points under Houllier to stay up? The evidence to date suggests not.
I said if we'd had anything like a full strength squad to choose from. The evidence to date doesn't help in that respect. This is the worst run of injuries I have ever known in my time following the Villa and I'm ancient. Every time we've had a decent performance we've lost a couple more from that side the following week. I think any manager new to a club would have struggled with what he's had to deal with. We're just starting to get some players back now, he's also got the transfer window to make his own mark on the squad. We'll know much more about him in a couple of months.
By which time I think we'll be firmly entrenched in the bottom three. I don't want to know anything more about Houllier, he's been an utter disaster from day one. Terrible, terrible appointment, done on the cheap. Well it's biting Lerner firmly on the arse now, and while he deserves it for not making a proper appointment in the first place, it's all of us who suffer for it.
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As an ex supporter of MON's, i'm as pissed off with him for leaving as any of us on here but for McGraths sake we've got to stop going on about the last Manager - this is about Houllier and the players and whether we have the confidence in them that they can turn this around.
No, you can't divorce the two.
If Houllier is finding it taking longer to settle and get his influence and control across to the players, he's not being helped by having been dropped in it when he was.
He also got dropped into a club which was in utter fucking turmoil as a result of MON's departure.
I'm not going to start to assign percentages as to whose fault it is between MON and Houllier, but I do think that anyone who thinks MON's side of that percentage is anything like zero is living in cloud cuckoo land.
and the same probably applies to the chairman and CEO.
Having the manager leave just before the start of the season is a pain in the arse but I don't see why it is worse "utter fucking turmoil" than if he had left after 10 or 20 games with the club struggling in the league, which is want often the situation when a club changes manager.
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
I do think, though, that up front with Carew's susceptibility to bending his hair or cutting himself shaving thus ruling him out, and Heskey, despite actually putting the odd decent performance in this year, being the easiest injured man mountain alive, we have got to move these two on and replace them with more sturdy options.
Yes, we've been a better side whenever Heskey has been on the pitch but he just doesn't seem physically able to play 3 games on the trot without blowing a gasket. I just hope Omar Cummings is a more than just somebody who sounds like he should be in a Carry On film as I suspect striking options will be difficult to get in January.
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Omar Cummings is a player who has scored a goal in every 3 games.
In Major League Soccer.
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The manage arrived and has had to work with what he was left with. Some players who couldn't be arsed, hadn't be trained properly, got injured and as a result we're suffering performance and results-wise.
We need to ship some players out and get some new blood in. The attitude of many of our players has been good and the younger ones have, on the whole, done pretty well. The future is looking good, even if the present isn't.
We need to give Houllier time, he's currently having to manage a weak, under-strength squad of over-paid, under-performing players.
Many on here are expecting Houllier to work miracles when in actual fact he's currently trying to polish MON's turd.
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i am in the camp of back ged, i can see what he is trying to do on the pitch, there are a load of players who are in the squad who cannot play the type of football he wants, the only mistake i can see is the evolution not revolution one that owen coyle has taken up. I sympathise with the injuries he has had to put up with.
there is enough there to take us away from relegation, the board will back him in jan, and then he can start building for a rise in the league next year!
Mon is a tosser in my eyes at the time of his departure, though i always appreciated the job he did for us without ever being a fan of his style of play. We all know we were left in the shit when he did that to us!
A perfect summation of what I think too. Back him, this time next year we'll be playing attractive and successful football.
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
When you take into account that our previous training regime consisted of MON chucking a load of balls at the players and telling them to get on with it whilst Robertson stood at the sidelines shouting ''stop bunching'' its hardly a surprise we've ended up with injuries.
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What could Houllier have done better?
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
When you take into account that our previous training regime consisted of MON chucking a load of balls at the players and telling them to get on with it whilst Robertson stood at the sidelines shouting ''stop bunching'' its hardly a surprise we've ended up with injuries.
Perhaps that's what we should be doing now because it made us win a lot of games. Or, perhaps, it's a load of bollocks that has become another of those interent truths.
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What could Houllier have done better?
We have no idea what it's like to play under him. Maybe he's doing everything right and the players are just not responding. Or maybe he can't movtivate, his tactics are unworkable, his training leading to injuries, his one signing weird, and his team selections odd? Either or.
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
When you take into account that our previous training regime consisted of MON chucking a load of balls at the players and telling them to get on with it whilst Robertson stood at the sidelines shouting ''stop bunching'' its hardly a surprise we've ended up with injuries.
Perhaps that's what we should be doing now because it made us win a lot of games. Or, perhaps, it's a load of bollocks that has become another of those interent truths.
Ahhh I see irony gets once more lost on the internet. The point is that no-one knows the true reasons for the injury list, just as no-one knows the truth behind supposed player unrest. There is but one truth and that is that our kids are doing a magnificent job whilst a number of senior players are not. If only one or two of those aforementioned senior players were to get their arses in gear the problem would be resolved and we'd once more be talking about 6th place.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
I'm not sure if there is a correlation between the performance or results of a team and how emotional the manager is.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
Mick McCarthy leaps up and down on the touchline, but would you want him as your boss?
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What could Houllier have done better?
Not defending Ireland, but he's clearly a player who needs an arm round the shoulder as opposed to a public rollicking, so bad man management there.
He should have dropped Dunne sooner than he did for Cuellar.
The defence is all over the place, so I'll stick my neck out and say we should concentrate more on the defensive basics in training.
Whatever his motivational style it's clearly not working.
He should abandon the double training sessions until the injury crisis eases.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
I'm not sure if there is a correlation between the performance or results of a team and how emotional the manager is.
Point taken, but Mancini was bellowing out instructions whilst they were 4-0 up. Brian Little, Big Ron, John Gregory and MON never left the touchline and players responded. DOL stood leaning against the dug-out arms folded and we all know how bad he was.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
Mick McCarthy leaps up and down on the touchline, but would you want him as your boss?
Maybe not for us, but he's got 2 teams promoted to the Premier and kept Wolves up last season, he's not done that badly.
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Is there something fundamentally wrong in our training set up that is causing these injuries, I wonder, or just bad luck? We were very lucky with injuries for a long time previously, maybe this is payback time.
When you take into account that our previous training regime consisted of MON chucking a load of balls at the players and telling them to get on with it whilst Robertson stood at the sidelines shouting ''stop bunching'' its hardly a surprise we've ended up with injuries.
Perhaps that's what we should be doing now because it made us win a lot of games. Or, perhaps, it's a load of bollocks that has become another of those interent truths.
Ahhh I see irony gets once more lost on the internet. The point is that no-one knows the true reasons for the injury list, just as no-one knows the truth behind supposed player unrest. There is but one truth and that is that our kids are doing a magnificent job whilst a number of senior players are not. If only one or two of those aforementioned senior players were to get their arses in gear the problem would be resolved and we'd once more be talking about 6th place.
Sorry, Neil. In my postprandial Christmas state unless it's got a big signpost alerting to me it then any attempt at subtlety will be lost.
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What could Houllier have done better?
Winning more than 5 league games and looking a bit more interested on the touchline would be a start.
Mick McCarthy leaps up and down on the touchline, but would you want him as your boss?
Maybe not for us, but he's got 2 teams promoted to the Premier and kept Wolves up last season, he's not done that badly.
Maybe so, but I'm struggling to see the connection between the animated touchline manager and success.
I would argue that there is a perception that if the manager is jumping up and down he cares, but if he stands calm and collected he is distant and does not care. I can see that it is easy to make the connection, I just don't believe that in reality it is so.
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Ive just watched the Villa/Manure game again. We played some cracking football in that match, beautiful at times... ;-)
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
Mmmm how can I put this in a way you might understand.
If Father Christmas left his job on Christmas eve, it would be very difficult to replace him in time for the big event, and indeed the choice of stand in Father Christmas would be rather limited too. Whoever came in would find it difficult replacing such a pivotal figure at such a pivotal time even if the picture was rosy and the previous Father Christmas had left things in a great state. Unfortunately things weren't left in a great state, though maybe some that were blinded by the magic of Christmas and the faerie's sparkle thought it was.
Now we've all had a bad Christmas because we didn't get the presents we wanted. The new Father Christmas hasn't exactly covered himself in glory, but he hasn't been helped by some of his helpers, and some of his key sleigh pulling reindeer that were meant to help him deliver his presents to us deserving Villa fans, got themselves injured or have gone AWOL. We shouldn't be too harsh on him though, he came in when everything was in full flow and with the wheels just primed to come off the sleigh and he has had very little opportunity to gain any control as the wheels were already in motion. Given the time of his appointment he couldn't even get the mechanics in he wanted to try and fix everything that was wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the causal chains that buggered up Christmas were put in motion long before Christmas and the ones that weren't were ones that the incumbent Father Christmas had no control over. Maybe if he'd had that little bit of magic dust everything would be much better now, though we would be blinded to the underlying reality by that dust, but it's a rare commodity these days, and unfortunately he didn't seem to have it, or enough of it, to have a positive effect. It would be unfair however to blame him for not fixing the mess he inherited considering when he inherited it.
The moral of the story? It was MoN that killed Christmas.
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I don't know how many times I have checked villa site and sky sports today in the hope that i see a story he has had the sack !!
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I like that, Dribbler.
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The moral of the story? It was MoN that killed Christmas.
An interesting analogy, and one I well understand, thank you very much, but where it falls down is that Santa has a one day to do his job, so anyone coming in on the eve is screwed. Should the replacement Santa have 9 months to get all the kids their presents I'd expect a few more to have them by now.
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He left us with no points, and level in the table with everyone else. The season was about to start. No manager worth appointing and who was in a job would have joined us at that time. You cannot get around those facts.
I like the way you drop that in as if it's a fact that they didn't approach people in jobs.
Also, I wonder how easy it is to quicky convince managers to leave their current club and join you five days before the start of the season.
I'm guessing the answer is "not very". It's the same thing we're seeing across this forum, people demanding we sack Houllier now, which is all well and good, but totally unable to face what happens when we do that - as in, what happens tomorrow? Who do we approach? Who do we get in? How long will it take?
While none of us know who we approached or how we approached them, what we can be sure of is that on current evidence we got the wrong man.
Were it me, I would have made a big move for Jol and paid whatever compensation Ajax wanted. he walked out a few months later, so things can't have been 100% right for him there and I think the lure of a club like Villa (6th place and a generous chairman) would havwe got him to jump ship.
Again, you don't know we didn't make a move for Jol, and it is one thing walking out of a club when things go badly, it is another entirely walking out before the start of the season. I'm not surprised he didn't fancy budging.
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
If i left my job at zero notice and my employer had to replace me quickly and from a very small pool of willing candidates, yes, it would be partly my fault. I wouldn't kill myself with guilt over it, and I am sure Martin won't be, but it would still be largely of my doing.
THe point about his departure timing is that we had a smaller choice of people to fish from, and that is one contributing factor to why we ended up with Houllier
If Martin had left at the start of the summer, or the end of the previous season, we'd have had far more time to get a replacement, and managers are more likely to be prepared to move at the end of a season than they are a handful of days before the start of the season. I don't see how anyone can not see that.
As for Martin having left us in a fine state, I think we're discovering now that things weren't quite so rosey.
I don't know what is most disappointing, the disarray he left us in or the apparent contempt with which he did it. All these posters saying "Houllier doesn't think anything of the club" - here's a question, how much do they think MON "felt" for the club when he ditched us with such dreadful timing?
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Again, you don't know we didn't make a move for Jol, and it is one thing walking out of a club when things go badly, it is another entirely walking out before the start of the season. I'm not surprised he didn't fancy budging.
Once again it becomes a circular argument, but how do we know they did?
The only thing I can think of that points towards it not happening is all the talk of waiting for applications we heard. Now, there may have been movements aside from that, but Jol is not going to apply while still being manager of Ajax. And wasn;t he at least interested when Fulham approached him during the summer?
Given the time they took I just find it hard to acceot Houllier was the best we could do.
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I heard a comment a few days back that MO'N did what he did at the time he did it in order 'to protect brand O'Neill'.
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Again, you don't know we didn't make a move for Jol, and it is one thing walking out of a club when things go badly, it is another entirely walking out before the start of the season. I'm not surprised he didn't fancy budging.
Once again it becomes a circular argument, but how do we know they did?
The only thing I can think of that points towards it not happening is all the talk of waiting for applications we heard. Now, there may have been movements aside from that, but Jol is not going to apply while still being manager of Ajax. And wasn;t he at least interested when Fulham approached him during the summer?
Given the time they took I just find it hard to acceot Houllier was the best we could do.
You're right, we don't know, but the point is that you originally said "I'd have gone for Jol" with the implication that the board didn't, you were the one who used it as part of your argument. If as you say, we don't know, why use their failure to do so as a stick to beat them with?
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I heard a comment a few days back that MO'N did what he did at the time he did it in order 'to protect brand O'Neill'.
I heard that, it was Tom Ross saying it.
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You're right, we don't know, but the point is that you originally said "I'd have gone for Jol" with the implication that the board didn't, you were the one who used it as part of your argument. If as you say, we don't know, why use their failure to do so as a stick to beat them with?
I'm hardly using it as a stick to beat anyone. This all originates from the point that some believe Martin has a lot of blame for our present predicament, which I disagree with, and that his timing meant Houllier was the best would could get, which I again disagree with.
I do not think Jol was approached and am using that as an example of how things could have been done better post MON's resignation. Can I prove it? No I can't.
Being as honest and as objective as you can, can you tell me were you picking our next manager Houllier would even have been in your top 5 candidates?
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
Mmmm how can I put this in a way you might understand.
If Father Christmas left his job on Christmas eve, it would be very difficult to replace him in time for the big event, and indeed the choice of stand in Father Christmas would be rather limited too. Whoever came in would find it difficult replacing such a pivotal figure at such a pivotal time even if the picture was rosy and the previous Father Christmas had left things in a great state. Unfortunately things weren't left in a great state, though maybe some that were blinded by the magic of Christmas and the faerie's sparkle thought it was.
Now we've all had a bad Christmas because we didn't get the presents we wanted. The new Father Christmas hasn't exactly covered himself in glory, but he hasn't been helped by some of his helpers, and some of his key sleigh pulling reindeer that were meant to help him deliver his presents to us deserving Villa fans, got themselves injured or have gone AWOL. We shouldn't be too harsh on him though, he came in when everything was in full flow and with the wheels just primed to come off the sleigh and he has had very little opportunity to gain any control as the wheels were already in motion. Given the time of his appointment he couldn't even get the mechanics in he wanted to try and fix everything that was wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the causal chains that buggered up Christmas were put in motion long before Christmas and the ones that weren't were ones that the incumbent Father Christmas had no control over. Maybe if he'd had that little bit of magic dust everything would be much better now, though we would be blinded to the underlying reality by that dust, but it's a rare commodity these days, and unfortunately he didn't seem to have it, or enough of it, to have a positive effect. It would be unfair however to blame him for not fixing the mess he inherited considering when he inherited it.
The moral of the story? It was MoN that killed Christmas.
That is now my favourite xmas story. Makes a lot of sense .............
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Paint MON green and he looks like the grinch...
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I don't get the "who else were we to choose" argument. If you've got a wad of cash and there aren't any good shares to buy, do you just think "fuck it, I'm going to buy this crappy one anyway" or do you leave your money in the bank until something good becomes available?
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I do not think Jol was approached and am using that as an example of how things could have been done better post MON's resignation. Can I prove it? No I can't.
In which case it doesn't really stand up as an argument, it's as much idle conjecture as the people on here moaning that Houllier called Lichaj a disgrace.
Being as honest and as objective as you can, can you tell me were you picking our next manager Houllier would even have been in your top 5 candidates?
Look back at the list of people we were being linked with. In that case, yes.
And what are the top 5 candidates measured from?
You suspect Martin Jol was one of them - he about to start a season with one of the biggest clubs in Europe, with a CL campaign to look forward to. I don't.
The managers I remember us being most strongly linked with included such stellar names as Curbishley, Bradley and Sven. I was happier with Houllier than i was with any of those.
Let me ask you a question - do you accept that it is much harder to find a new manager five days before the start of a new season than, say, in May?
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I don't get the "who else were we to choose" argument. If you've got a wad of cash and there aren't any good shares to buy, do you just think "fuck it, I'm going to buy this crappy one anyway" or do you leave your money in the bank until something good becomes available?
Shares aren't something you necessarily need to have.
Someone to run a business which turns over a vast quantity of money every year is.
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Well a manager has just been sacked by a club who play in claret and blue..
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Really quite surprised by the Poll, over 2/3rds want him gone. That would mean 4 managers in 5 months. If he had been fired after the Liverpool game I would have supported such a decision. I think that a hammering at Chelsea will seal his fate.
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I do not think Jol was approached and am using that as an example of how things could have been done better post MON's resignation. Can I prove it? No I can't.
Odd then that Jol mentioned us by name and said "Villa will have to wait" when he was linked with the post.
The General also said something along the lines of 'all the obvious names were contacted' in his thread.
At that time, Jol had the prospect of CL football and being in the same group as AC Milan to face, as well as what he believed to be unfinished business with the league. So short of kidnapping him (or Moyes -who was also reportedly sounded out) I'm not sure what else they could have done?
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I'm trying to figure out at what point did Martin Jol turn into Jose Mourinho.?The way some people have thrown his name about you'd think he'd won everything there is to win in the game, and that we were such fools not to appoint him 5 days before the start of the season. That the illustrious one would just walk away from CL Ajax into our arms. Did I miss the multiple championships and cups he's won?
Instead, after much thought we appointed a man who, funnily enough has won a number of trophies in his career, and must be doing his nut as much as all of us as to why the results have gone the way they have. I can only imagine he cannot wait to turf out some of the players who have completely sold out the club and bring in his own players that actually want to give something back.
Things aren't going well, but given that Houllier has never suffered a relegation in his career, he won't want to start at the age of 63. I'm still of the belief that we will get through this, and we will build through our academy and astute signings a better club, playing better football.
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Has he gone yet ?
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I do not think Jol was approached and am using that as an example of how things could have been done better post MON's resignation. Can I prove it? No I can't.
In which case it doesn't really stand up as an argument, it's as much idle conjecture as the people on here moaning that Houllier called Lichaj a disgrace.
OK, but if we are going to say that any managerial alternatives are 'pure conjecture' then surely so is the presumption that Houllier was the best we could do? If we don't know what they did or could do how do we know they COULDN'T have got someone better? Which then falls down the argument of it being Martin's fault we got Houllier.
Yes, it was awkward to get someone when we needed to, but not impossible. Martin leaving when he did was his fault, who the board then appointed, no matter what level of difficulty the process had, was the boards decision.
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the problem i have is that something beyond the timing of the MON departure has gone horribly wrong, there have been some abject performances there are problems at the back and virtually no threat up front. his selection against Spurs was odd and the changes he made through the game were bewidering, now we throw the towell in at citeh.
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Exactly my point Pauliewalnuts - we didn't need Houlier... we could have just waited with the money in its then current state (Kmac / cash) till somethign better came along.
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I do not think Jol was approached and am using that as an example of how things could have been done better post MON's resignation. Can I prove it? No I can't.
Odd then that Jol mentioned us by name and said "Villa will have to wait" when he was linked with the post.
The General also said something along the lines of 'all the obvious names were contacted' in his thread.
At that time, Jol had the prospect of CL football and being in the same group as AC Milan to face, as well as what he believed to be unfinished business with the league. So short of kidnapping him (or Moyes -who was also reportedly sounded out) I'm not sure what else they could have done?
Genuine question here - can someone remind me of exactly what the events were when he was heavily linked with Fulham in the summer? From memory it was that he was at least tempted, but they wouldn't pay the release fee, and he wouldn't walk out. Was that have been before their CL qualification?
If that is right, then paying his release fee would have been a small price for us given his suitability and our need.
Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager. They took their time and had resources to throw at it if necessary, so for all you can blamce him for, the appointment of his successor is not one of those things!
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Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager.
Do you think we'd have been less likely to have Houllier appointed if Martin had left in May?
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Pete Colley just been on SSN from outside BMH saying some stuff about "a senior source" in the dressing room saying GH is not at all popular with some senior players.
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
If i left my job at zero notice and my employer had to replace me quickly and from a very small pool of willing candidates, yes, it would be partly my fault. I wouldn't kill myself with guilt over it, and I am sure Martin won't be, but it would still be largely of my doing.
THe point about his departure timing is that we had a smaller choice of people to fish from, and that is one contributing factor to why we ended up with Houllier
If Martin had left at the start of the summer, or the end of the previous season, we'd have had far more time to get a replacement, and managers are more likely to be prepared to move at the end of a season than they are a handful of days before the start of the season. I don't see how anyone can not see that.
As for Martin having left us in a fine state, I think we're discovering now that things weren't quite so rosey.
I don't know what is most disappointing, the disarray he left us in or the apparent contempt with which he did it. All these posters saying "Houllier doesn't think anything of the club" - here's a question, how much do they think MON "felt" for the club when he ditched us with such dreadful timing?
No one is arguing that O'Neill left at the ideal time. As you say, it would have been better if the situation had been dealt with at the end of last season.
Docherty, Crowe, Barton, Mc'Neill, Little, Gregory, GTII all took over mid-season and most likely didn't start off as badly as Gerard has. It's also worth noting that O'Neill himself only took over O'Leary's squad 2 weeks before we played Arsenal.
What is so special about our situation this time that makes the timing any worse for Gerard than when any other manager joins a club "mid-season"?
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Pete Colley just been on SSN from outside BMH saying some stuff about "a senior source" in the dressing room saying GH is not at all popular with some senior players.
did the report start Sky Sports Understands and have no actual quotes whatsoever? Then followed by pictures of Dunne and Ireland leaving training together having a right old laugh?
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Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager.
Do you think we'd have been less likely to have Houllier appointed if Martin had left in May?
I think there would have been more candidates in May, if that's what you mean.
Do you think Houllier was our best option even given the timing?
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Pete Colley just been on SSN from outside BMH saying some stuff about "a senior source" in the dressing room saying GH is not at all popular with some senior players.
yeah probably Dunne, Ireland and Carew.. fook them off then
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Pete Colley just been on SSN from outside BMH saying some stuff about "a senior source" in the dressing room saying GH is not at all popular with some senior players.
In other news, the Pope is Catholic and bears really do shit in the woods.
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Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager.
Do you think we'd have been less likely to have Houllier appointed if Martin had left in May?
I think there would have been more candidates in May, if that's what you mean.
Do you think Houllier was our best option even given the timing?
Of those I believe were gettable, yes.
You seem to think Jol was gettable, though, which I disagree on. We probably both think he'd have been a better bet, but that's by the by, if they're not available, they're not available.
If we'd been looking in May, we'd have been looking at a wider range of possibilities, and he almost certainly wouldn't have been the best option.
I'm not saying everything is MON's fault (which Villadawg, I observe, seems to be suggesting I am, having totally and utterly missed the point yet again), far from it, nor am I saying that Houllier is doing brilliantly - far from it.
I am just saying that to suggest MON's timing had nothing to do with Houllier getting the job is a touch naive.
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I'm trying to figure out at what point did Martin Jol turn into Jose Mourinho.?The way some people have thrown his name about you'd think he'd won everything there is to win in the game, and that we were such fools not to appoint him 5 days before the start of the season. That the illustrious one would just walk away from CL Ajax into our arms. Did I miss the multiple championships and cups he's won?
Instead, after much thought we appointed a man who, funnily enough has won a number of trophies in his career, and must be doing his nut as much as all of us as to why the results have gone the way they have. I can only imagine he cannot wait to turf out some of the players who have completely sold out the club and bring in his own players that actually want to give something back.
Things aren't going well, but given that Houllier has never suffered a relegation in his career, he won't want to start at the age of 63. I'm still of the belief that we will get through this, and we will build through our academy and astute signings a better club, playing better football.
I think it might be the belief that Jol still has something in the tank and might be keen to improve us.
Rather than GH who -although successful almost a decade ago- seems to be in winddown mode. A CV packed with success is great, but I wouldn't want George Graham or Giovanni Trapattoni managing us either -and they can probably trump GH a few times over for total trophies won. If that's the only criteria you're using we could just go the whole hog and dig up the bones of Helenio Herrera or Jock Stein and have them scattered around the dugout (they'd still probably be more animated than GH).
I'm not sold on Jol either. The trophy aspect doesn't bother me a great deal (how many trophies had Brian Little won as a manager before he took over in 1994?), we're not the kind of club that can realistically demand success as of right. I'm more concerned with his final season at Tottingham and how he had a bunch of talented players scrambling about at the arse end of the table.
Against that, he did get them to close to CL qualification on a few occasions and was only 3 points off doing so for Hamburg in 2009.
So effectively we're talking about a successful (but past it) manager balanced against the merits of a younger manager who hasn't quite achieved (yet). But has got close already on a number of occasions and should be hungry to make that breakthrough with us.
As with the players we should be targeting, I'd much rather have a manager who wants to contribute and have his best times here, rather than one just drifting and looking at newspaper cuttings of his glory days.
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Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager.
Do you think we'd have been less likely to have Houllier appointed if Martin had left in May?
I think there would have been more candidates in May, if that's what you mean.
Do you think Houllier was our best option even given the timing?
Of those I believe were gettable, yes.
You seem to think Jol was gettable, though, which I disagree on. We probably both think he'd have been a better bet, but that's by the by, if they're not available, they're not available.
Yeah, I think that's the key phrase where we disagree - 'gettable'.
Just to play devils advocate though, can anyone confirm how long after we had to wait for Houllier did Jol jack in it at Ajax?
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Jol went in Oct/Nov?
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I think MON's departure along with not appointing a manager until after the transfer window meant that we could not expect to realistically kick on from last year. Losing Milner and getting Ireland also weakened us. I dont think anyone would disagree.
However, even after the above events, I dont think anyone, even the most pessismistic, expected us to be 1 point above the relegation places at the turn of the year.
The squad we have should be good enough to keep us in mid table at the very least. Granted we have had a miserable run of injuries, but players are coming back and things seem to be getting worse if not better.
Houllier has to take the blame for where we are. If we were sitting between 8-12th (where is as high as he thinks we can be), you would have to give him the benefit of the doubt of the circumstances he found himself in.
But, I dont think the circumstances were as bad as are being made out. He inherited a squad that finished 6th 3 years consecutively, albeit minus Milner. Throw in the youngsters who have matured this season into Premier League players. Do we not also have some of the best training facilities in the country?
Instead of utilising what he had at his disposal he has alienated Dunne, Carew, Ireland as well as supposedly rowed with Lichaj and Albrigthon after yesterday's game. Ok, a lot of the disharmony is rumours etc, but i think in his case there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Now Dunne, Carew and Ireland are far from blameless. Through a combination of bad form and attitude they have not served us well this season. However, Dunne and Carew have served us exceptionally well in the past and Ireland, the little toerag that he is, has the capability to be a top player. I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
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Look, this isn't about Jol in particular, but I simply cannot accept the argument that Martin's timing is why Houllier is the manager.
Do you think we'd have been less likely to have Houllier appointed if Martin had left in May?
I think there would have been more candidates in May, if that's what you mean.
Do you think Houllier was our best option even given the timing?
Of those I believe were gettable, yes.
You seem to think Jol was gettable, though, which I disagree on. We probably both think he'd have been a better bet, but that's by the by, if they're not available, they're not available.
Yeah, I think that's the key phrase where we disagree - 'gettable'.
Just to play devils advocate though, can anyone confirm how long after we had to wait for Houllier did Jol jack in it at Ajax?
He resigned on December 6th, after having fallen well short in the title race and been knocked out of the Champions League.
Maybe we should have just predicted that would happen and waited? If only it were so easy.
Surely, though, having said you thought Martin left us in a very strong position, we had something to maintain, so waiting for a manager to become available would have meant throwing away something?
It's all so easy isn't it, this football chairman lark. It's the same for (not you) the people screaming "sack Houllier now!". Not one of them has put forward a compelling plan re what we do next.
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Jol went in Oct/Nov?
December 6th.
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I think it was a good choice in principal. Team three times at sixth. Fans wanting more expansive, creative footy and a need to break into the so called top four. He was a surprise granted -but made some sense. Given his CV.
Hindsight is a fantastic supporter of the cynic.
I want him out asap now.
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
when did the General say they liked Hughes? Wouldn't that have been picked up by the press had he actually pinpointed a specific person, especially as that person was in another job at the time? I think there was a good chance we'd have got Hughes, but he's hardly pulling up any trees at Fulham is he?
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Genuine question here - can someone remind me of exactly what the events were when he was heavily linked with Fulham in the summer? From memory it was that he was at least tempted, but they wouldn't pay the release fee, and he wouldn't walk out. Was that have been before their CL qualification?
If that is right, then paying his release fee would have been a small price for us given his suitability and our need.
It was reported at the time (or soon after) that he was using Fulham's interest as leverage, namely to ensure that his best players at Ajax weren't sold from under him and that he'd get a decent transfer kitty.
He might or might not have been more interested in a job like Villa had we been in a position to go for him at that stage of the summer.
But if he definitely wasn't interested, the 'Villa will have to wait' line he came out with a few months later when the shit hit the fan would be an odd one.
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He resigned on December 6th, after having fallen well short in the title race and been knocked out of the Champions League.
Maybe we should have just predicted that would happen and waited? If only it were so easy.
Surely, though, having said you thought Martin left us in a very strong position, we had something to maintain, so waiting for a manager to become available would have meant throwing away something?
It's all so easy isn't it, this football chairman lark. It's the same for (not you) the people screaming "sack Houllier now!". Not one of them has put forward a compelling plan re what we do next.
Fair enough - I thought it was longer ago than 6/12.
And it wasn't a matter of 'waiting', my argument is that things obviously weren't 100% rosey there for him (Fulham connection and gone as soon as results weren't what was expected) so had we made a strong approach he may have jumped.
Being a chairman isn't easy, despite what we all write on here, but when a bad decision is made I feel the chairman should take the brunt of it, not his last manager.
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The other point is, having been through that with Fulham, whether it was to leverage his position or not, Jol had clearly come through it with an agreement with the Ajax board, thus making it even less likely he was then going to walk away shortly after.
Sometimes it just doesn't happen, the manager might fancy the job, but the timing isn't right, other factors influence it, lots of factors are at play.
I wonder how many of the same posters now telling us we should have just gone out and magicked up the best manager they can name really quickly, like it was a video game, are the same ones who used to tell those of us who complained that MON was slow to get moving in the transfer market, "it's not that easy you know, it's not a video game"?
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
when did the General say they liked Hughes? Wouldn't that have been picked up by the press had he actually pinpointed a specific person, especially as that person was in another job at the time? I think there was a good chance we'd have got Hughes, but he's hardly pulling up any trees at Fulham is he?
The General said it online the day of the Vienna away game. It was also picked up by MysteryMan on Villatalk.
Hughes is doing a solid job if unspectacular at Fulham. Whoever was going to take over from Hodgson was on a hiding to nothing. He's done with Wales, and at Blackburn and Citeh
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I don't like houllier as our manager because I think he's past his sell by date, lacks drive, passion and charisma
He also seems out of touch with the modern game
I do feel for him in the sense that he's being undermined by a number of the senior players and this is wholly unacceptable and ironically may save his bacon
If it was just about results he'd be gone but there's more to this sloppy affair and the noise behind the scenes will buy GH more time sadly
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Anyone think this unnamed senior source feeding quotes to sky may be kevmac? I was just thinkin about it and wondered how he really feels after being urged to apply and then snubbed by randy?
Whoever it is , there is clearly a mole in the camp leaking stories to the media.
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Any manager in any job has got to get the best out of what he has, Houllier clearly isn't doing this and worse is alienating senior pros. The mire we are in now means we will not be able to attract anyone decent in the window and frankly he shouldnt be given money to spend because he will get the sack and then the new man won't have any money to spend and have to offload more players he doesn't want. Get MacDonald back in to end of season - players will play their heart out for him. If not, then Allardyce could do a job.
GH is simply out of his depth - why pick Delph with other juniors ahead of experience of Petrov or Reo-Coker... doesn't make sense... we have great youngsters but don't let them drown and lose confidence without support of old lags.
How can he have made our reasonable team of last few seasons soooo bad and have soo little fight? He HAS to go and now......
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Yep, let's get Kev Mac in, maybe he can get that passion like we showed at Newcastle back again.
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I wonder how many of the same posters now telling us we should have just gone out and magicked up the best manager they can name really quickly, like it was a video game, are the same ones who used to tell those of us who complained that MON was slow to get moving in the transfer market, "it's not that easy you know, it's not a video game"?
The thing is though Paulie they DID take their time. What was it - 6 weeks from MON going to Houllier being appointed?
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
when did the General say they liked Hughes? Wouldn't that have been picked up by the press had he actually pinpointed a specific person, especially as that person was in another job at the time? I think there was a good chance we'd have got Hughes, but he's hardly pulling up any trees at Fulham is he?
The General said it online the day of the Vienna away game. It was also picked up by MysteryMan on Villatalk.
Hughes is doing a solid job if unspectacular at Fulham. Whoever was going to take over from Hodgson was on a hiding to nothing. He's done with Wales, and at Blackburn and Citeh
Hughes was doing ok at City, until he was given money then went silly with it and just brought players for the sake of it, Adebayor being the main example. Not sure i'd want him here though, i'm not sure why but he just bores me a little.
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Hughes is doing a solid job if unspectacular at Fulham. Whoever was going to take over from Hodgson was on a hiding to nothing. He's done with Wales, and at Blackburn and Citeh
If he's doing a solid job at Fulham Houllier is Manager of the Year material.
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A somewhat cyclical argument, but the very fact that had MON not left when he had, Houllier wouldn't even have been considered for the job, shows that you can't pretend MON's departure had no effect.
Sorry, but when MON left none of us were considerign him for the job. It's the way Randy wanted to go so fair enough, but if you jacked your job tomorrow and whoever replaced you was shite, would you accept you were partially to blame for a decision you had no hand in? And with all the arguments about the timing of his departure, lets not forget that the club took their time in finding a new man and didn't jump into anything.
Martin left us in a much better state than we are in now, so what had happened since he's gone is simply not his fault.
Mmmm how can I put this in a way you might understand.
If Father Christmas left his job on Christmas eve, it would be very difficult to replace him in time for the big event, and indeed the choice of stand in Father Christmas would be rather limited too. Whoever came in would find it difficult replacing such a pivotal figure at such a pivotal time even if the picture was rosy and the previous Father Christmas had left things in a great state. Unfortunately things weren't left in a great state, though maybe some that were blinded by the magic of Christmas and the faerie's sparkle thought it was.
Now we've all had a bad Christmas because we didn't get the presents we wanted. The new Father Christmas hasn't exactly covered himself in glory, but he hasn't been helped by some of his helpers, and some of his key sleigh pulling reindeer that were meant to help him deliver his presents to us deserving Villa fans, got themselves injured or have gone AWOL. We shouldn't be too harsh on him though, he came in when everything was in full flow and with the wheels just primed to come off the sleigh and he has had very little opportunity to gain any control as the wheels were already in motion. Given the time of his appointment he couldn't even get the mechanics in he wanted to try and fix everything that was wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the causal chains that buggered up Christmas were put in motion long before Christmas and the ones that weren't were ones that the incumbent Father Christmas had no control over. Maybe if he'd had that little bit of magic dust everything would be much better now, though we would be blinded to the underlying reality by that dust, but it's a rare commodity these days, and unfortunately he didn't seem to have it, or enough of it, to have a positive effect. It would be unfair however to blame him for not fixing the mess he inherited considering when he inherited it.
The moral of the story? It was MoN that killed Christmas.
That is now my favourite xmas story. Makes a lot of sense .............
Great way of presenting it - and makes sense - my only issue with it is that - agreed the last Santa was indeed a twat, and did leave things in a way that the wheels were ready to come off but....
The twat Santa had bought a lot of new reindeers, granted a lot of which were never good enough to pull the sled, (and in the case of Heskey the red nosed one couldn't be trusted to stay on his feet if one of the other reindeers looked at him) but the reindeers he bought and those he selected Christmas in and Christmas out (even if a few were in the wrong position) did seem to give their all for him - granted they weren't the most attractive sled pulling team but they were effective and were right up their with a chance to pull their sled in Europe (before twat Santa knackered them and they were unable to pull every March)
Then, as we know childishly, twat Santa slung his hook on Christmas eve and dropped the reindeers and ther trusty child punters who paid his wages right in the reindeer poo.
Unfortunately (and granted there was not a lot of choice with Santa's Curbishley, Brown, Jewell and Dowie out of work) we ended up with the French Santa. He gathered all of the reideers together called them all dicks, (especially the Irish reindeers whom he effectively offered to the glue factory along with Big John Reindeer (the kids favourite) whom he told to fu** off and die horribly - he'd never like Big John from the days he pulled French Santa's sled in France a few years previously.
He then followed this up by ringing the Lapland Sun/Mirror to call all the reindeers dicks in the press. He declared the whole outfit (reindeers, elves and all) a mid table pulling team and not fit to lace the skates of the previous sled team he used to manage - Slitherpool his beloved red army.
To make things worse - he didn't recognise that Twat Santa had assembled a bunch reindeers that was very one dimensional (but effective) - and then changed the style - rendering the reindeers essentially useless and devoid of any confidence. So much so that all the reindeers gave up any thought of delivering presents at all - they just went through the motions and got shat on by all the other sled teams in Lapland, so much so that they are now in danger of being relegated somewhere colder and more miserable (North East Championship)
Bottom line Twat Santa is indeed a Twat - but French Santa is proving himself to be a bigger Twat in every way - and I for one don't trust French Santa to deliver any presents any time soon - i vote we get rid of him ASAP and call this Christmas off with a view to a better one next year. I'm hoping Dutch Santa might come in and save the day.
PS if Dudley Santa fronts up sling him a few quid and tell him to fuck off - he take it and go quietly
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I wonder how many of the same posters now telling us we should have just gone out and magicked up the best manager they can name really quickly, like it was a video game, are the same ones who used to tell those of us who complained that MON was slow to get moving in the transfer market, "it's not that easy you know, it's not a video game"?
The thing is though Paulie they DID take their time. What was it - 6 weeks from MON going to Houllier being appointed?
And why didn't they magic up who you wanted at the end of it?
What kind of moron thought that a man who had won the French league three times, the UEFA cup, the FA Cup, two league cups, and been deeply involved in football administration in a country with a record of developing excellent players might be a good appointment?
Like i said, it's all so easy with hindsight, isnt it?
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Kevin Mac Sid and Tony Mac would just be filling the void until May, steadying the ship and getting everyone back together for the 2nd half of the season
Under Houllier we are in freefall
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Hey FSW is on the market!!
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I can't be arsed dredging up the quotes, but I'm certain Jol said he wanted to have a bash at the Champions League and the Dutch title with Ajax.
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I wonder how many of the same posters now telling us we should have just gone out and magicked up the best manager they can name really quickly, like it was a video game, are the same ones who used to tell those of us who complained that MON was slow to get moving in the transfer market, "it's not that easy you know, it's not a video game"?
The thing is though Paulie they DID take their time. What was it - 6 weeks from MON going to Houllier being appointed?
And why didn't they magic up who you wanted at the end of it?
What kind of moron thought that a man who had won the French league three times, the UEFA cup, the FA Cup, two league cups, and been deeply involved in football administration in a country with a record of developing excellent players might be a good appointment?
Like i said, it's all so easy with hindsight, isnt it?
It's not hindsight - I said he wouldn't be my choice at the time. I've backed him since, and am not exactly calling for him to go now, but I call it as I see it - a bad decision by the board!
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We are 4/1 to go down. Stoke are 18/1 - hells bells.
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I think I'd much rather stick with houllier than watch the sort of football dished up by hughes teams- of the people available jol is the only stand out candidate to me having got spurs into the top 5 twice.
Amazed that anyone could want kevmac- we would be down without a doubt , never seen a man so totally out of his depth as a manager !
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I'd take Hughes over Houllier, at least he can Handle players and their oversized egos
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Hey FSW is on the market!!
There would be a delicious irony if we ended up with Benitez and Martin got his dream job at Liverpool.
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I'd take Hughes over Houllier, at least he can Handle players and their oversized egos
So, let's get this right.
Hughes - team which reached UEFA Cup final last year, appointed well in time for season, currently one place above relegation places, never won anything = good
Houllier - not even got us that low = bad?
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I think I'd much rather stick with houllier than watch the sort of football dished up by hughes teams- of the people available jol is the only stand out candidate to me having got spurs into the top 5 twice.
Amazed that anyone could want kevmac- we would be down without a doubt , never seen a man so totally out of his depth as a manager !
In defence of KMac, he did win 2 league games whilst he was in charge. GH has only won 3. Not saying i'd have him back mind.
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The win over everton was the biggest smash and grab since the great train robbery- we could and should have lost by 5 goals- west ham were awful and milner was outstanding- keV mac no no no!
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We should have employed Simon Grayson the minute O'Neill left, assuming he'd come. Then he'd have had a window to deal in, again assuming Lerner had any money to give him.
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
Utter rubbish. Houllier may not be popular but comparing him to O'Leary.......deary me.
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Grayson does not have enough experience yet but is one for the future maybe- as is owen coyle, there are some decent up and coming managers about but we need experience at the moment.
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The win over everton was the biggest smash and grab since the great train robbery- we could and should have lost by 5 goals- west ham were awful and milner was outstanding- keV mac no no no!
It was'nt only Milner that was good that day, the whole team were and i'd take a few smash and grab's at the moment, i'm not fussy being only a point off the bottom three.
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I accept there arent too many viable options were we to get rid of Houllier now, but I think we are in freefall and GH wont turn it around.
Owen Coyle would be my choice....bit of a gamble, but he is ambitious, seems to be able to manage players and quite young so could be a good long term option.
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
Totally disagree.
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I take your point clampy but I felt as bad as yesterday was it was much worse the way we were thrashed 6-0 at newly promoted and very average Newcastle under kmac.
That display was on a par with the 6-0 at forest the year we went down and if that's kmac with the players wanting him to get the job then god help us if he ever took over again.
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Brian Laws anyone ?
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Gus Poyet
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I take your point clampy but I felt as bad as yesterday was it was much worse the way we were thrashed 6-0 at newly promoted and very average Newcastle under kmac.
That display was on a par with the 6-0 at forest the year we went down and if that's kmac with the players wanting him to get the job then god help us if he ever took over again.
I think you mis-read my original post. I was sticking up for KMac yes, but i did'nt say i wanted him back, far from it. Bearing in mind he was thrown in at the deep end, he did his best and got us 6 points out of the first 9. We'd be on 14 points now if he had'nt.
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The fumbling around Houllier's appointment in the first place doesn't give me much hope the club will be decisive enough to act. Ellis at least seemed to have the art of hiring and firing down to a fine art, and probably always had a file marked "replacement" in his cabinet. We may not have guessed precisely when BFR's time had come but knew the writing was on the wall; while it was extremely naive not to have a plan B in case MON stormed off in a huff, I can only hope they've got something up their sleeve now.
There's no perfect time to become a football manager - most get their next job at the expense of someone else, and/or at a time of crisis or upheaval, often with the club struggling. There are rarely a set of perfect circumstances. Whether Houllier came in before the transfer deadline or after, it seems to matter little as the club did not want to spend any money - and this may have been precisely the reason for the previous manager quitting when he did. Even so, Houllier can be said to have been given a far more attractive hand than many - a club which was on the face of it stable and had qualifed for Europe the previous season. In an ideal world, he'd have the time to bring in his own men, evolve the club, the step-by-step approach, but what the club can't countenance is relegation. It's unthinkable. It's now a risk - stick with Houllier or bust. And before we know it, we're into February and March. Talk of "style of play" and "the next level" is out of the window, we just need a semblance of organisation, some motivation and some results. Houllier's whole body language doesn't suggest he has a clue how to achieve those.
I'd take Jol or Allardyce, or slightly harder to get McLeish or Bruce. Even Warnock.
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
Totally disagree.
I don't think I ever heard chants of 'O'Leary out!' until well into his third year, and even then it was isolated pockets of resistance. Even the internet lot only started to mobilise against him from about Nov/Dec 2005 onwards.
GH has managed that in three months, a rare achievement.
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We should have stuck with KMac until an outstanding manager became available instead of rushing it through
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We should have stuck with KMac until an outstanding manager became available instead of rushing it through
Can you not remember the howls of anguish because we hadn't appointed a manager NOW!?
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Houllier either doesn't even know his first choice 11, or he is alienating the high wagers on purpose so he can ship them out.
If he really doesn't know his first choice 11 by now (picking Delph and Hogg instead of Petrov and NRC, would indicate he doesn't), he should go, if he is alienating the first teamers because of orders from above, i.e reduce the wage bill then the January transfer window will tell all.
I fear the board have lost their bottle and we are shaping up for the next few seasons with little or no investment.
What Houllier (and the board) does in January will be interesting, although i fear he is already out of his depth.
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Also if GH was told to work with the players he'd inherited he's made a right old hash of it
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There are some double standards being applied here.
We all agree that the young players should be given their chance and must be given time to develop their full potential. So if that is the case for the great young layers KM and Sid have brought through why shouldn't KM get a proper shot at management? He has done a fantastic job with the reserves and deserves more respect than he gets.
As for the Newcastle game if Carew had not blasted our penalty into row ZZ it may well have turned out to be a much more creditable result than the six nil drubbing. I am not saying we would have won it but a, say, 3-1 defeat would have left Kevin with a bit of a shout for the manager's job. Six nil had all the media reptiles spitting venom at us and Kevin's chance was gone.
I agree with the poster who said we should have faced up to the act of sabotage committed by O'Neill and defused it by the appointment of a longer term caretaker manager until a better choice of applicants was available.
The same applies to the present situation. I am of the opinion that we must waste no more precious time on Houllier. It is a luxury we cannot afford. If I were Randy Lerner I would have a proven player motivator and dressing room trouble shooter appointed on a one year contract then out him once our position was secure and we have the time and stability to plan long term. If that means Fat Sam sobeit. I do not want Championship football at Villa Park. It would kill me.
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If the reports are true that this Fofana kid is signing from Le Harve in the next couple of days, it dose'nt sound like GH is going anywhere just yet.
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Houllier either doesn't even know his first choice 11, or he is alienating the high wagers on purpose so he can ship them out.
Why would Irelands ridiculous salary have been agreed if the board wanted shot of the high earners ?
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We should have stuck with KMac until an outstanding manager became available instead of rushing it through
Can you not remember the howls of anguish because we hadn't appointed a manager NOW!?
No I can't but then again I was on holiday straight after the Newcastle game so may have missed the backlash
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i wouldnt like to be stuck in the trenches with some of you panicky fella's, cries of we are all doomed and running around like headless chickens,
we might well lose against Chelsea, then we'l get a load more wailing and gnashing, but we will then start picking up the neccesary points to comfortably finish well clear of the relegation zone.
dont panic i say
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All of a sudden Sunderland at home has taken on gigantic proportions
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Grayson does not have enough experience yet but is one for the future maybe- as is owen coyle, there are some decent up and coming managers about but we need experience at the moment.
He's been managing for 5 years, and won 2 promotions in that time. What do we have to wait for him to do?
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I'd stop being Cpl Jones or even Frazer if we weren't being led by Pte Godfrey.
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What's John Gregory up to nowadays?
JGMkII ?
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Houllier either doesn't even know his first choice 11, or he is alienating the high wagers on purpose so he can ship them out.
Why would Irelands ridiculous salary have been agreed if the board wanted shot of the high earners ?
Fair point, It's just a suggestion as to why Houllier has been acting the way he has, if he is not acting out orders to get rid of the high earners, then we really are in trouble. His team selections have bordered on the desperate/ridiculous, his man mangement and motivational skills are useless, his PR skills with the fans are a disaster, i can only assume he is keeping his bosses happy.
Or the board have had a change of heart since Ireland signed.
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Grayson does not have enough experience yet but is one for the future maybe- as is owen coyle, there are some decent up and coming managers about but we need experience at the moment.
He's been managing for 5 years, and won 2 promotions in that time. What do we have to wait for him to do?
Get some experience in the top flight?
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Houllier is old school and sounds like he'd rather have lunch with Faulkner and Lerner than get his tracksuit on and work with the players
Get rid now before we fully implode
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Two managers sacked today. They say things come in threes :-). Here's hoping eh
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Grayson has potential but i'd like to see him manage in the premiership before judging him, coyle has stepped up to this level and looks comfortable with it and his team play neat football which seeing what he was left with is quite an acievement- if grayson copes in the premiership as well as coyle has done then he deserves a crack at the villa maybe but as yet is unproven at this level.
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....
I'm not saying everything is MON's fault (which Villadawg, I observe, seems to be suggesting I am, having totally and utterly missed the point yet again)...
I'm not missing the point at all. I'm just pointing out that you were overplaying the importance and impact that the timing of Houllier's appointment is likely to have had. Many managers in the PL (most??) have been appointed later into the season than Houllier was and have done just fine, all of the current top four managers for example.
Villa are a big club, one of the top 25 in Europe in terms of turnover. We should be capable of selecting a very good manager at any time of the year.
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Randy went for the cheap option in Houllier, and I'd now paying for it. He should be man enough to admit his mistake and rectify it.
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Randy went for the cheap option in Houllier, and I'd now paying for it. He should be man enough to admit his mistake and rectify it.
i thought GH's contract was worth about 4,000,000 surely Curbs would have been the cheap option ?
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Interestin thread on Gary mac but someones put it in villa memories by mistake- could a mod redirect the thread to this forum discussion - I feel Gary mac may be the real reason for the mess we are in more so than houllier.
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Randy went for the cheap option in Houllier, and I'd now paying for it. He should be man enough to admit his mistake and rectify it.
Isn't Inspector Clueso on more than MON was?
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
That's exactly my view point on it
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Hughes is doing a solid job if unspectacular at Fulham. Whoever was going to take over from Hodgson was on a hiding to nothing. He's done with Wales, and at Blackburn and Citeh
If he's doing a solid job at Fulham Houllier is Manager of the Year material.
Clubs have different expectation levels. I'm sure every year Fulham's aim is survival, and then building on it?
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Grayson does not have enough experience yet but is one for the future maybe- as is owen coyle, there are some decent up and coming managers about but we need experience at the moment.
He's been managing for 5 years, and won 2 promotions in that time. What do we have to wait for him to do?
Bloody hell he got loads of stick when he played for us, hate to think what he would get as a manager if it went wrong.
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Interestin thread on Gary mac but someones put it in villa memories by mistake- could a mod redirect the thread to this forum discussion - I feel Gary mac may be the real reason for the mess we are in more so than houllier.
can you explain further your enlightened knowledge of the workings of gary mac and the reason he is to blame for our demise please?
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One of my fears is that we have foreign owners who have less football nous than any of us on this site. I don't doubt their abilities to run a sports club in terms of marketing etc. but they really are not football people, and I think that is where we may come unstuck. Faulkner, I don't think, hasn't cut his business teeth in the football world except for the last 5 years under Lerner. I am concerned that we lack the executive experience to guide us through this, and we are left with a Board that will rely too heavily on Houllier to fill the gap of the football knowledge/ experience that they require.
I think, in terms of structure, we are crying out for a Director of Football role to improve this imbalance. Ironically someone like Houllier would probably be ideal for this role, because of his knowledge, but also because he is looking increasingly out of touch of how to manage a team close up. Alternatively of course, the best candidate would be Graham Taylor....
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SOS call to El Tel ?
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i wonder what will happen if we get spanked 5 or 6-0 at chelsea, would randy then push the button?
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No. I think it might depend on January's results and dealings.
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For those who are advocating the wait and see policy I would have agreed if it where back in October, but it isn't.
Had it not been for the lucky win against the baggies then we would be in the bottom three and even more in the shit.
After Sunday we may well be in the bottom three.
Relegation is a distinct possibility because I don't think that half of our team are up for the fight not to mention the lacklustre managerial team.
Randy may not make any funds available in the window or we may have to sell first (goodbye Ashley Young) this window will tell us allot about the current board.
Mr Frenchscouse is not the man for this job, the team are not playing well and we have just one chance to escape.
Mr H your time is up, mr Lerner face you bad choice and make a change. Before we repeat 1986/87
Mark
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SSN now reporting that sources from within the club say the senior players are not happy with Hoillier.
Well fuck me, what happened to First Fast Now?
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Here's an interesting point.
Lots of finger pointing at Houllier, and a lot of justification behind it.
Lots of finger pointing at MacAllister, the main justification being that he sits on the bench and is quiet.
There's another bloke who sits on the bench and is quiet, and he's our first team coach.
*shakes Walnuts' hand*
It was nice knowing you.
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Legion - thank you for your signature. I'd forgotten Villa could entertain us...
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Thanks. My pleasure. Which one?
This one?
Or this one?
Or both?
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We could really do with something similar soon.
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i wonder what will happen if we get spanked 5 or 6-0 at chelsea, would randy then push the button?
A defeat he can survive a spanking and gutless performance ?I dont think so
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Randy went for the cheap option in Houllier, and I'd now paying for it. He should be man enough to admit his mistake and rectify it.
Spoken like a true bean counter. (winky)
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I think I've just spotted the problem. It's the change of sponsor. Bring back acorns!
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He'll be gone tomorrow
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I doubt it.
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
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I think I've just spotted the problem. It's the change of sponsor. Bring back acorns!
I did feel back in the summer that this home kit was a little too close to the 2005/06 vintage and feared that a similar season may ensue. Odd I know.
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
Any reason why? Surely Randy was prepared for a defeat aginst Man City
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
Sorry is there so sort of 'in the know' knowledge here?
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As he probably is against Chelsea on Sunday.
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
Sorry is there so sort of 'in the know' knowledge here?
Probably just two differing opinions.
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
Sorry is there so sort of 'in the know' knowledge here?
Probably just two differing opinions.
6/1 with Ladbrokes,nothing happening yet.
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I doubt it.
Its a strong possibility
Sorry is there so sort of 'in the know' knowledge here?
Probably just two differing opinions.
No i am not ITK just adding 2+2 and maybe getting 5, I am guessing that GH and RL will meet pretty soon and the closeness to the transfer window, I do not believe GH will survive a further confidence sapping anhialation at Chelsea though and would put money on that
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I'm not ITK either. I just make it all up as I go along.
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
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I can only consider this logically in that the club are fully aware January needs to be busy, ergo most of Houllier's transfer requests will have been worked on for some considerable time now. The club have backed him, albeit in a low-key way - they said on BRMBlues last night that the thought of giving Houllier the flick was anathema to RL and the higher-ups. If I was a betting man the trigger-fingers won't start flexing until either the Sunderland or Sheff Utd games.
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I think, and kinda hope, he gets 3-4 players in the first week of the window, we stuff Sheff U and Sunderland and their backing of him is justified.
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Defeat at Chelski, defeat at home to S'land (the team that won at The Bridge will turn up) and then a vote of confidence for GH
He'll then be gone within the week
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
That is your opinion that you have put in such an awful way. Cheap insults and calling fellow posters 'low life'- out of order.
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Defeat at Chelski, defeat at home to S'land (the team that won at The Bridge will turn up) and then a vote of confidence for GH
He'll then be gone within the week
Or a fighting display at Chelsea earning a draw and a battling win against Sunderland and all is rosy again! Us Villa fans are so negative!
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
Why does the buck stop with one member of the backroom staff, but not another, and anyone who says differently is 'low life'? I don't think Sid is in any way to blame for what's going on, but if criticism is being dished out he can't be immune on account of previous service.
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I see Liverpool are losing at home to Wolves. Will people want Uncle Roy when he gets the push up there?!
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
Why does the buck stop with one member of the backroom staff, but not another, and anyone who says differently is 'low life'? I don't think Sid is in any way to blame for what's going on, but if criticism is being dished out he can't be immune on account of previous service.
What is mcallister role?
What is Sids?
Does Sid have any hand in team selection / subs etc ?
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Give him a transfer window. He's obviously trying to change things but he's got non-performing hoofers who've reverted to type. I'm sure someone like allardyce could come in and improve things quicker but then we're back to square one. If we'll still struggling near the bottom by mid-february then panic
Surely MON created a team that was efficient at what it did. Call them hoofers if you want but I'd easily settle for 6th and 2 Wembleys at the moment. To ask the same players to start playing a different game from day one was a gamble to say the least.
That was "two" Wembleys (one final) in 4 years and we never looked like scoring in either (penalty apart).
No plan B. No clue.
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
That is your opinion that you have put in such an awful way. Cheap insults and calling fellow posters 'low life'- out of order.
Totally. Who has criticised Sid?
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
Why does the buck stop with one member of the backroom staff, but not another, and anyone who says differently is 'low life'? I don't think Sid is in any way to blame for what's going on, but if criticism is being dished out he can't be immune on account of previous service.
What is mcallister role?
What is Sids?
Does Sid have any hand in team selection / subs etc ?
I've no idea for either of them, which is why I wonder why one is fair game and the other isn't.
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I cannot believe some low life on here are having a pop at Sid for this debacle !!
Get a grip, buck stops with Clueso and the bald scottish mute
Sorry to interrupt your tedious stream of "OMG! SACK HIM! SACK HIM!" posts, but nobody is having a pop at Sid.
The reason I mentioned him was because lots of people - you included - seem to be suggesting it is Houllier, as he's the manager, or it is Lerner as he's the chairman, or it is McAllister as he is the assistant manager, and that the problem is the coaching - basically, picking names with a scattergun approach - how, for example, can anyone without intimate knowledge of what goes on at BMH place the blame so specifically?
And how come if you take that approach, our first team coach is not also getting picked on? Assuming your "Sid has no power in the training" comment is what it sounds like - absolute nonsense made up to suit your argument.
I'll tell you why, because he's a Villa hero, but for all we know he might be the problem, so if you're going to be laying the blame at the coaching team so squarely, you'd better be very aware of the precise details of who does what if you're going to exclude Sid.
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Apologies for calling people "low life"
Just very frustrated with the management and that now even Sid is getting blamed
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Incidentally, if you're going to resort to pathetic racial insults like "Clueso" you might want to at least learn to fucking spell it properly.
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Before the General left he said we did not have a defensive coach.
West Ham got Wally Downes and have improved defensively, maybe we need a coach specifically for the defence.
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Paul McGrath ?
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What's racial about it? He looks look Inspector Clouseau.
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
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What's racial about it? He looks look Inspector Clouseau.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what he was referring to, his appearance. There has been a stream of "french prick", "clouseau" crap today, and there's no need for it. Or for "bald Scottish mute" either.
As for Clouseau, he could still learn to fucking spell it
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
So do I.
But criticising number 1 and number 2 but definitely not number 3 because you're sure he "has no input on training" is slightly hypocritical.
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What's racial about it? He looks look Inspector Clouseau.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what he was referring to, his appearance. There has been a stream of "french prick", "clouseau" crap today, and there's no need for it. Or for "bald Scottish mute" either.
As for Clouseau, he could still learn to fucking spell it
Did you Google that? *winks*
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What's racial about it? He looks look Inspector Clouseau.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what he was referring to, his appearance. There has been a stream of "french prick", "clouseau" crap today, and there's no need for it. Or for "bald Scottish mute" either.
As for Clouseau, he could still learn to fucking spell it
Ok chill a bit
i noticed a dumb and dumber pic the other day depicting GH/GM which seemed ok ?
What is the policy ? are we not to knock the management on here ?
I will abide by the rules if you let me know whats ok and what isnt
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I'm not ITK either. I just make it all up as I go along.
And you'll probably get there quicker too.
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
So do I.
But criticising number 1 and number 2 but definitely not number 3 because you're sure he "has no input on training" is slightly hypocritical.
I find the whole lets blame mcalister lets blame Sid shameful, the manager picks instructs the backroom staff
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Go here (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?page=page4597)
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Go here (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?page=page4597)
thanks noted
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i wonder what will happen if we get spanked 5 or 6-0 at chelsea, would randy then push the button?
Wouldn't bet against it, push the button that is..........or the 5 or 6 nought come to think of it.
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
So do I.
But criticising number 1 and number 2 but definitely not number 3 because you're sure he "has no input on training" is slightly hypocritical.
I find the whole lets blame mcalister lets blame Sid shameful, the manager picks instructs the backroom staff
I don;t necessarily disagree with you, but my point was that in that case you either also blame GM *and* GC or neither of them, unless you have a direct input to who does what and where the problem lies, which WikiVilla seemed to think he had earlier today, but now doesn't seem so sure.
It's dead easy to point at someone and say "it's his fault" when it's some surly bloke who never played for us and had a shit time at Coventry, he's an easy target.
It's not quite so easy and convenient when the person is a Villa legend, but the fact they are doesn't absolve them of any blame necessarily.
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
So do I.
But criticising number 1 and number 2 but definitely not number 3 because you're sure he "has no input on training" is slightly hypocritical.
I find the whole lets blame mcalister lets blame Sid shameful, the manager picks instructs the backroom staff
It didn't stop people criticising the input of Walford and Robertson under the previous incumbent.
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I do think that criticising the number 2 or 3 defies logic, GH is in charge of the team and backroom staff.
So do I.
But criticising number 1 and number 2 but definitely not number 3 because you're sure he "has no input on training" is slightly hypocritical.
I find the whole lets blame mcalister lets blame Sid shameful, the manager picks instructs the backroom staff
I don;t necessarily disagree with you, but my point was that in that case you either also blame GM *and* GC or neither of them, unless you have a direct input to who does what and where the problem lies, which WikiVilla seemed to think he had earlier today, but now doesn't seem so sure.
It's dead easy to point at someone and say "it's his fault" when it's some surly bloke who never played for us and had a shit time at Coventry, he's an easy target.
It's not quite so easy and convenient when the person is a Villa legend, but the fact they are doesn't absolve them of any blame necessarily.
i think we agree mate, i think we are all pretty scared right now and looking for answers
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Wolves have won away at Liverpool and Wigan drew with arsenal so we are 1 point off the drop zone- worrying days ahead!
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This time last season we had a Carling Cup Semi Final to look forward to. Now we're watching to see how the bottom 3 are doing. Oh dear.
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Unreliable source.
http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/29/the-other-side-of-the-story-for-houllier-and-you-have-to-feel-sorry-for-him-avfc-houllierout/
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Wolves have won away at Liverpool and Wigan drew with arsenal so we are 1 point off the drop zone- worrying days ahead!
Hey but we're only 2 points off Liverpool you know! Crisis what crisis
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Stand firm clampy , maybe we will do what Sunderland did at chelsea, goodness me this vodka is strong!
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Jol went in Oct/Nov?
December 6th.
Don't you love it when people make statements without bothering to google and find the facts disprove what they want to believe.
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Shrek if this report you linked is true then many people need to hang their head in shame , no wonder we planning a clearout and I suspect it may be true but unforgivable!
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Unreliable source.
http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/29/the-other-side-of-the-story-for-houllier-and-you-have-to-feel-sorry-for-him-avfc-houllierout/
If true, that is shocking
whats the source of the info?
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Unreliable source.
http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/29/the-other-side-of-the-story-for-houllier-and-you-have-to-feel-sorry-for-him-avfc-houllierout/
If true, that is shocking
whats the source of the info?
Facebook and Ian Robathan.
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Unreliable source.
http://astonvilla-views.com/2010/12/29/the-other-side-of-the-story-for-houllier-and-you-have-to-feel-sorry-for-him-avfc-houllierout/
If true, that is shocking
whats the source of the info?
Narnia.
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Jol went in Oct/Nov?
December 6th.
Don't you love it when people make statements without bothering to google and find the facts disprove what they want to believe.
I do *wink*
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How reliable is he dave?
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How reliable is he dave?
Perhaps someone else would like to answer that.
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Wolves have won away at Liverpool and Wigan drew with arsenal so we are 1 point off the drop zone- worrying days ahead!
Dont worry, we can't go down because we're better than West Brom, Wirmingham and Wulham.
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How reliable is he dave?
Chocolate teapot.
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How reliable is he dave?
Chocolate teapot.
Using a sieve as a condom
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.
How reliable is he dave?
I think there's a reason he posts these things with a fecking big - PLEASE REMEMBER TREAT WITH EXTREME SCEPTICISM - at the top.
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Very unreliable source, I couldn't imagine that happening. For one players would be fined for being late.
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Stuff like that happens all the time at football clubs. File under 'complete and utter bollocks'.
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Hey FSW is on the market!!
At least with Benitez people wouldn't complain that the manager never got up from his seat. With him in charge, the manager would get up from his seat every other minute ... to clean his glasses.
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Gerard Houllier's position as manager at Aston Villa is now under review after the club's power-brokers left Eastlands in a shocked state on Tuesday evening.
Villa owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner were left reeling by the manner in which Houllier's team rolled over against Manchester City and are now considering their next move.
Both Villa Park decision-makers are reluctant to call time on the Frenchman after appointing him just three-and-a-half months ago.
Houllier will have to plot Villa's escape route without spending too heavily in the transfer window.
The former Liverpool boss has been told he will only be able to spend money he generates in January.
At present, Werder Bremen and Leicester City are fighting over a £2.5million move for Curtis Davies but that is the only deal on the table.
Houllier was given the go-ahead to sign France Under 19 midfielder Guida Fofana from Le Havre for £800,000 and take Jamaica international Omar Cummings on trial, but the nature of Tuesday's defeat has placed the manager under the spotlight.
daily mail
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The former Liverpool boss has been told he will only be able to spend money he generates in January.
At present, Werder Bremen and Leicester City are fighting over a £2.5million move for Curtis Davies but that is the only deal on the table.
Houllier was given the go-ahead to sign France Under 19 midfielder Guida Fofana from Le Havre for £800,000 and take Jamaica international Omar Cummings on trial, but the nature of Tuesday's defeat has placed the manager under the spotlight.
daily mail
If that were true, then they may as well sack him now rather than leave him in an unsupported limbo.
It'd be so reckless, I can't believe it is true.
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We have to support him in January, if he's the manager back him. At least give him the chance. The players are a disgrace, and need to sort themselves out.
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Paulie we are buying a £800k gamble in the window similar to Salifou and thats our main signing. Wake up and smell the coffee. Players out will be Carew, Sidwell who are on yes thats right £50k plus a week. We are a selling club at this moment in time, with Ashley Young up for grabs.
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We have to support him in January, if he's the manager back him. At least give him the chance. The players are a disgrace, and need to sort themselves out.
I don't believe a single word of that post but if it were true, I'd sack the manager tomorrow and have no concerns at all about the team if you put a decent manager in charge.
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If it were true that there was no money apart from sales in January then I suggest me Lerner sells the club as wothout financially backing the manager we have no chance- if Lerner can no longer invest the money required then it would be best for him to go - but of course it may be a load of tosh!
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Paulie we are buying a £800k gamble in the window similar to Salifou and thats our main signing. Wake up and smell the coffee. Players out will be Carew, Sidwell who are on yes thats right £50k plus a week. We are a selling club at this moment in time, with Ashley Young up for grabs.
There you go again. Who says £800k is our main signing? Who says Young is 'up for grabs'?
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interesting to see the same problems with Hodgeson at Liverpool, Houlier also inherited a failing expensive squad. Both managers under pressure and only 2 points seperating the clubs. Hodgeson has not become a bad manager overnight but the same apathy has overcome both teams. It must be incredibly difficult to take over a club under these circumstances, neither manager has got it right
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The club will give him money, Faulkner has already said that. He should be given his chance to bring 4-5 players in to sort it out, but we have to IMO be realistic and use the loan system to get a couple of people like Robbie Keane, maybe even Wayne Bridge etc to come in and help out. Pires was the right idea he is just too far past it judging on hw he playing.
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The former Liverpool boss has been told he will only be able to spend money he generates in January.
At present, Werder Bremen and Leicester City are fighting over a £2.5million move for Curtis Davies but that is the only deal on the table.
Houllier was given the go-ahead to sign France Under 19 midfielder Guida Fofana from Le Havre for £800,000 and take Jamaica international Omar Cummings on trial, but the nature of Tuesday's defeat has placed the manager under the spotlight.
daily mail
If that were true, then they may as well sack him now rather than leave him in an unsupported limbo.
It'd be so reckless, I can't believe it is true.
I don't believe a word of it. When you listen to Paul Faulkner's interview he states quite eloquently how the club understands the magnitude of the task and how they have always backed the manager. The fact that the media fails to ever get actual reliable soundbytes out of the upper echelons of the club leads them to come to whatever conclusion they wish. It wil be a different one tomorrow, and next week. If GH spends money, then he'll have to sell to buy to generate further spending. If he only brings in a few players and loans it will be because the board have put the clamps on and don't trust him anymore. Whatever happens it will be spun into something new by someone else looking to catch our attention.
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Ok Is Young up grabs? 18 months left on deal wont sign a new deal and spurs up his arse offering him champions league. You tell me if we will spend £5m plus on a new player.
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We have to support him in January, if he's the manager back him. At least give him the chance. The players are a disgrace, and need to sort themselves out.
I don't believe a single word of that post but if it were true, I'd sack the manager tomorrow and have no concerns at all about the team if you put a decent manager in charge.
I'm sorry, what do you mean don't believe? I believe we have to support Houllier as he is the manager who has been hired and a large number of the players have shown a shocking lack of desire.
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Ok Is Young up grabs? 18 months left on deal wont sign a new deal and spurs up his arse offering him champions league. You tell me if we will spend £5m plus on a new player.
I don't know about Young. I'm pretty sure we will spend £5 million, or more, if the opportunity arises. But I don't know for certain so I wouldn't say so.
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Ok Is Young up grabs? 18 months left on deal wont sign a new deal and spurs up his arse offering him champions league. You tell me if we will spend £5m plus on a new player.
And how does any of that make Young "up for grabs".
Don't get me wrong, if we sold him in January, I would lose all faith in the board, but I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion.
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Aaaaargh........
Now the 'Back GH' brigade are up to 36%!
For every 10 guys on here there are 3 of them plus .6 of the fourth (a pair of legs and up to the belly button) who want to see him continue.
Yep, I know not to have any expectations for when we play Chelski - let's face it, we can't ship as many as the last time we were there............OR CAN WE??? (cue Twilight Zone music).
Someone wake me from this nightmare and reassure me that Randy's sacked him s'il vous plait.........
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That article is rubbish, completely contradicts what our CE has said. Such lazy journalism.
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What could Houllier have done better?
At the start, Houllier's plan was to change things gradually in order to give the players time to adapt. It seems as if this plan has gone out of the window. Now GH is quoted as saying "adapt or die". Dunne, Ireland and Beye have obviously pissed him off for some reason, and he now seems determined to force them out of the club. The players don't seem to understand what GH wants them to do.
I may be completely off the mark, but I have the impression that GH has lost patience with his gradual approach and tried to do too much too soon. The result is that some players are unhappy with him, and the rest is confused.
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You know things are really bad when you are gutted that Wolves get three points at Anfield. Usually I love seeing 'pool lose but not now....
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Wham want £15m plus for the journeyman Piquionne. You really think we will spend £5m plus if opportunity arises? We need a manager for the last half of the season and we got popeye with a heart problem. I like the bloke but he just aint got it and the players/fans/papers can smell it big time.
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Ok Is Young up grabs? 18 months left on deal wont sign a new deal and spurs up his arse offering him champions league. You tell me if we will spend £5m plus on a new player.
If the right player is available and one for the future rather than with a limited 'use by date', we will spend more than £5m on a player. What RL will not do now is spend large sums on 'quick fix' players a la MON's buys in the summer of 2009 (with the exception of Delph).
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If Spurs offered something silly like Keane, Bentley, Woodgate on loan till May and 10 million I would take it Paulie I have to say. And then go and buy N'Zogbia with the cash. But the board I think will back Houllier quite well, and if France U19 captain is an example of the pedigree he is after then so they should. He is a very good manager, as Hodgson is, but he needs time to sort it out, which if he is given I still think long term we will be better off. I would say though, I think he misses Phil Thomson and Patrice Bergues terribly by the look of it, and the club could do a lot worse than make them big offers to come onto the coaching team ASAP.
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I keep on saying it but we have enough good players at the club to easily get us into mid-table security. We don't necessarily need to sign anyone!
What we do need is for the players to start playing for one another and putting in the effort, passion and commitment required to get us out of this mess!
At this moment in time the manager has proved that he cannot motivate the current players and has actually alienated a few of the more senior players. So for me he is grasping at straws if he really thinks that the January transfer market will make any real difference.
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I keep on saying it but we have enough good players at the club to easily get us into mid-table security. We don't necessarily need to sign anyone!
What we do need is for the players to start playing for one another and putting in the effort, passion and commitment required to get us out of this mess!
At this moment in time the manager has proved that he cannot motivate the current players and has actually alienated a few of the more senior players. So for me he is grasping at straws if he really thinks that the January transfer market will make any real difference.
Will the players ever want to play for Ged though? As you say, can we take a gamble on backing him any longer? he can't replace the entire team in January and then try to mould them into something decent for the duration of the season. We don't have the luxury as we need 20+ points from somewhere.
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would hope GED has all the milner cash plus anymore from sales- if not what chance do we have , if the money is not given to him then it will show us why o neill left- the board said they will back him with money and he needs to be given at least £15m from milners sale to spend- anything less would be a travesty!
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Ozzjim you are taking the piss. Offering Phil Thompson big money? Hilarious. Bring on Sammy Lee.
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If Spurs offered something silly like Keane, Bentley, Woodgate on loan till May and 10 million I would take it Paulie I have to say. And then go and buy N'Zogbia with the cash. But the board I think will back Houllier quite well, and if France U19 captain is an example of the pedigree he is after then so they should. He is a very good manager, as Hodgson is, but he needs time to sort it out, which if he is given I still think long term we will be better off. I would say though, I think he misses Phil Thomson and Patrice Bergues terribly by the look of it, and the club could do a lot worse than make them big offers to come onto the coaching team ASAP.
agree entirely Ozz. It's been frustrating in the extreme for a number of reasons recently. But the question is do you believe in what he is trying to do? He's fighting to change a lot at the club while playing games. I almost get the impression sometimes that the games are actually a huge distraction, but those are the cards that he's been dealt and he's trying to make the best of it. I think you're right. He doesn't have around him the people he trusts the most. The board will back him because they believe in the bigger project that has been started.
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Taking the piss. Ok, so Liverpool under Houllier were consistently tight at the back due to what maybe? Oh that would be the pretty decent former centre half coaching them how to defend each week. Rocket science it ain't, and the passion he would bring to give people a good bollocking would be useful too. Just cause he is an arse does not mean he would not be bloody useful.
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Wham want £15m plus for the journeyman Piquionne. You really think we will spend £5m plus if opportunity arises? We need a manager for the last half of the season and we got popeye with a heart problem. I like the bloke but he just aint got it and the players/fans/papers can smell it big time.
What annoys me so much about todays world is the use of ridicule to make a point. Fair enough, if you do not rate him, say so but at least show some respect.
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Young will not be sold in Jan, RL knows that would be PR suicide. so now we are contemplating begging from spurs for loan players?
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Ozzjim you are taking the piss. Offering Phil Thompson big money? Hilarious. Bring on Sammy Lee.
what's hilarious is that your entire knowledge and judgement of Phil Thompson extends to what you see on TV. The manager's knowledge of Phil Thompson goes beyond a man who he trusts and can confide in, and someone who he has been very successful with. That could be worth a lot more than his detractors will ever give him credit for.
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It amazes me that you would think loaning a couple of players in the short term fro the long term gain would be beneath you from a current champions league side due to it being begging.
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would hope GED has all the milner cash plus anymore from sales- if not what chance do we have , if the money is not given to him then it will show us why o neill left- the board said they will back him with money and he needs to be given at least £15m from milners sale to spend- anything less would be a travesty!
I wouldn't trust him with 10 pence of my money.
Aside from needing someone who knows where the goal is - I firmly believe we have enough talent to be able to get us away from the basement of the Prem.
However, what I have zero confidence in is that Houllier is the man to do this.
Let's be honest about this, footballers nowadays are in the main fickle and many of our current crop should hang their heads in shame - but Randy needs to act and act quickly or else it'll be too late.
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With you ozzjim- offer thommo a big fee and get him here - he was the key behind houlliers success and having read his book he clearly sorted out the spice boys- phil Thompson would be perfect for houllier!
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What like the respect he showed to the current squad. I will show him respect when he has earnt it.
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What like the respect he showed to the current squad. I will show him respect when he has earnt it.
There's a big difference between disrespect and unacceptable insult, and you have not for the first time crossed that line.
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Dave you make me laugh. Take off your claret and blue glasses. Tell me with your hand on your heart that this man is right and fit for the job? The bloke is a clown.
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so we want to offer Thomo, a bloke that has turned the job down and who is perfectly comfortable doing a no risk job for sky loads of money, then we sidle up to Arry at Spurs (a team that we were competing with last season) to loan us some of his cast offs. Obviously i am not taking the right drugs
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The age of the internet. When human beings will believe literally *anything*.
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Dave you make me laugh. Take off your claret and blue glasses. Tell me with your hand on your heart that this man is right and fit for the job? The bloke is a clown.
I don't know whether he is right for the job or not. I do know that some of the things you have said about him are unacceptable.
I'm glad that remaining as positive as it's possible to be at this time, and refusing to make up stories prersumably for the purpose of making the club look bad, is providing you with a source of amusement.
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I keep on saying it but we have enough good players at the club to easily get us into mid-table security. We don't necessarily need to sign anyone!
What we do need is for the players to start playing for one another and putting in the effort, passion and commitment required to get us out of this mess!
At this moment in time the manager has proved that he cannot motivate the current players and has actually alienated a few of the more senior players. So for me he is grasping at straws if he really thinks that the January transfer market will make any real difference.
I would say it is glaringly obvious that we are short of 3 players down the spine of the team, a big f*** o** central defender, a hard b****** in central midfield and a goalscorer upfront. We have some good young players but at this point in time they need help and a little protection on the pitch.
There have been some games (more than is healthy) where we have given up quite easily and may be this is down to motivation (although we did conceed 7 at Chelsea last season with one of the 'best' motivators) but there have been plenty of games that we could quite easily have won, if not for stupid mistakes or a fair rub of the green with referees decisions e.g. Stoke, Blackburn, Sunderland.
There are some players that look as though they are giving up far too easily but equally there are others that are just not reading the game well enough.
Like others, I believe we need a defensive coach as we do look all at sea, particularly from set pieces.
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What stories have i made up? Calling some one popeye and confirming he has heart problem? And if you think i am laughing then you are way off the mark. You really think the club doesnt look bad at the moment? No it doesnt look bad its a laughing stock.
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Dave you make me laugh. Take off your claret and blue glasses. Tell me with your hand on your heart that this man is right and fit for the job? The bloke is a clown.
I think he should be bundled in the back of a van and put on the next cross channel ferry as well, but personal insults are a bit much. Save them for Ireland.
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Dave you make me laugh. Take off your claret and blue glasses. Tell me with your hand on your heart that this man is right and fit for the job? The bloke is a clown.
I don't know whether he is right for the job or not. I do know that some of the things you have said about him are unacceptable.
I'm glad that remaining as positive as it's possible to be at this time, and refusing to make up stories prersumably for the purpose of making the club look bad, is providing you with a source of amusement.
I don't wish GH any ill and I won't insult him - I just want him gone.
Okay, time to sign off.....as I glance at the poll I see that the 'Back GH' brigade are working their way up to 37%!
Sooo..... for every 10 lads on here that's 3 full grown blokes plus the legs and all the way up to the man boobs of the fourth........
Don't worry........I'm gone.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Sorry, maybe a silly question but why didn't that French bloke who coached with Ged at Liverpool not join?
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What stories have i made up? Calling some one popeye and confirming he has heart problem? And if you think i am laughing then you are way off the mark. You really think the club doesnt look bad at the moment? No it doesnt look bad its a laughing stock.
"£800k is our main signing," "Young is up for grabs," "Players are waiting for the manager to be sacked." That's three from this evening, at least one of which is libellous. And your repeated references to the manager's heart problem aren't reminders, they're insulting.
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he might be off the mark Dave but Libellous?
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Libellous? Insulting? Well the football i have seen since he has been in charge is both of those. Oh and the players will be queueing up with his comments to the press since he has taken over our great club.
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You really think the club doesnt look bad at the moment? No it doesnt look bad its a laughing stock.
And how much has that been aided by comments from our own supporters.
From some of the names being suggested to replace GH, it seems like blind panic rather than thinking about the long term future. Sam Allardyce - I never thought I would see the day when a Villa supporter would be calling for him to be manager.
That and made up stories leading to rumours spreading around the internet.
Yes, I do agree there are many other clubs supporters and the media out there that are laughing at our situation but how much are we magnifying the issue with scatter gun solutions to the problem or perceived problems.
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I think MON's departure along with not appointing a manager until after the transfer window meant that we could not expect to realistically kick on from last year. Losing Milner and getting Ireland also weakened us. I dont think anyone would disagree.
However, even after the above events, I dont think anyone, even the most pessismistic, expected us to be 1 point above the relegation places at the turn of the year.
The squad we have should be good enough to keep us in mid table at the very least. Granted we have had a miserable run of injuries, but players are coming back and things seem to be getting worse if not better.
Houllier has to take the blame for where we are. If we were sitting between 8-12th (where is as high as he thinks we can be), you would have to give him the benefit of the doubt of the circumstances he found himself in.
But, I dont think the circumstances were as bad as are being made out. He inherited a squad that finished 6th 3 years consecutively, albeit minus Milner. Throw in the youngsters who have matured this season into Premier League players. Do we not also have some of the best training facilities in the country?
Instead of utilising what he had at his disposal he has alienated Dunne, Carew, Ireland as well as supposedly rowed with Lichaj and Albrigthon after yesterday's game. Ok, a lot of the disharmony is rumours etc, but i think in his case there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Now Dunne, Carew and Ireland are far from blameless. Through a combination of bad form and attitude they have not served us well this season. However, Dunne and Carew have served us exceptionally well in the past and Ireland, the little toerag that he is, has the capability to be a top player. I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
With regret, I have to say this post represents my thoughts.
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You really think the club doesnt look bad at the moment? No it doesnt look bad its a laughing stock.
And how much has that been aided by comments from our own supporters.
From some of the names being suggested to replace GH, it seems like blind panic rather than thinking about the long term future. Sam Allardyce - I never thought I would see the day when a Villa supporter would be calling for him to be manager.
That and made up stories leading to rumours spreading around the internet.
Yes, I do agree there are many other clubs supporters and the media out there that are laughing at our situation but how much are we magnifying the issue with scatter gun solutions to the problem or perceived problems.
i dont think that opinions on the internet mean anything unless they are consistant like the reaction to our managers behaviour at liverpool, there are lots of football club sites with even less informed opinions that we see on here.
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Wham want £15m plus for the journeyman Piquionne. You really think we will spend £5m plus if opportunity arises? We need a manager for the last half of the season and we got popeye with a heart problem. I like the bloke but he just aint got it and the players/fans/papers can smell it big time.
Perhaps if you cared to google dissected aorta, you might wish to adjust your tense.
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he might be off the mark Dave but Libellous?
Saying players want the manager sacked isn't far off that.
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I think MON's departure along with not appointing a manager until after the transfer window meant that we could not expect to realistically kick on from last year. Losing Milner and getting Ireland also weakened us. I dont think anyone would disagree.
However, even after the above events, I dont think anyone, even the most pessismistic, expected us to be 1 point above the relegation places at the turn of the year.
The squad we have should be good enough to keep us in mid table at the very least. Granted we have had a miserable run of injuries, but players are coming back and things seem to be getting worse if not better.
Houllier has to take the blame for where we are. If we were sitting between 8-12th (where is as high as he thinks we can be), you would have to give him the benefit of the doubt of the circumstances he found himself in.
But, I dont think the circumstances were as bad as are being made out. He inherited a squad that finished 6th 3 years consecutively, albeit minus Milner. Throw in the youngsters who have matured this season into Premier League players. Do we not also have some of the best training facilities in the country?
Instead of utilising what he had at his disposal he has alienated Dunne, Carew, Ireland as well as supposedly rowed with Lichaj and Albrigthon after yesterday's game. Ok, a lot of the disharmony is rumours etc, but i think in his case there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Now Dunne, Carew and Ireland are far from blameless. Through a combination of bad form and attitude they have not served us well this season. However, Dunne and Carew have served us exceptionally well in the past and Ireland, the little toerag that he is, has the capability to be a top player. I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
With regret, I have to say this post represents my thoughts.
It's one of 2 options, albeit I think Ireland wants to and should go anyway.
The other option is sweeping changes to the playing staff, and not in the summer but now, which will cost Randolph a few bob.
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I think MON's departure along with not appointing a manager until after the transfer window meant that we could not expect to realistically kick on from last year. Losing Milner and getting Ireland also weakened us. I dont think anyone would disagree.
However, even after the above events, I dont think anyone, even the most pessismistic, expected us to be 1 point above the relegation places at the turn of the year.
The squad we have should be good enough to keep us in mid table at the very least. Granted we have had a miserable run of injuries, but players are coming back and things seem to be getting worse if not better.
Houllier has to take the blame for where we are. If we were sitting between 8-12th (where is as high as he thinks we can be), you would have to give him the benefit of the doubt of the circumstances he found himself in.
But, I dont think the circumstances were as bad as are being made out. He inherited a squad that finished 6th 3 years consecutively, albeit minus Milner. Throw in the youngsters who have matured this season into Premier League players. Do we not also have some of the best training facilities in the country?
Instead of utilising what he had at his disposal he has alienated Dunne, Carew, Ireland as well as supposedly rowed with Lichaj and Albrigthon after yesterday's game. Ok, a lot of the disharmony is rumours etc, but i think in his case there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Now Dunne, Carew and Ireland are far from blameless. Through a combination of bad form and attitude they have not served us well this season. However, Dunne and Carew have served us exceptionally well in the past and Ireland, the little toerag that he is, has the capability to be a top player. I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
With regret, I have to say this post represents my thoughts.
The big problem here is that once you let the playaers become in effect more powerful than the manager, and able to get him sacked, you're heading for trouble. The most famous example for us was Manchester City with Ron Saunders and look what happened to them for thirty-odd years after.
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he might be off the mark Dave but Libellous?
Saying players want the manager sacked isn't far off that.
its probably not that far off the truth either, i havent seen many of the predictable and inane "we are all behind the manager " quotes
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Im off to bed Dave. Calling me libellous really does take the biscuit. Sometimes you have to take off these glasses you wear and look out in front of you. I have followed Villa all over and have even sat by you. Lets hope Houllier can take us forward. Yes he may find us a few decent players but can he really cut it in the premier league? I cant see it myself.
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I think MON's departure along with not appointing a manager until after the transfer window meant that we could not expect to realistically kick on from last year. Losing Milner and getting Ireland also weakened us. I dont think anyone would disagree.
However, even after the above events, I dont think anyone, even the most pessismistic, expected us to be 1 point above the relegation places at the turn of the year.
The squad we have should be good enough to keep us in mid table at the very least. Granted we have had a miserable run of injuries, but players are coming back and things seem to be getting worse if not better.
Houllier has to take the blame for where we are. If we were sitting between 8-12th (where is as high as he thinks we can be), you would have to give him the benefit of the doubt of the circumstances he found himself in.
But, I dont think the circumstances were as bad as are being made out. He inherited a squad that finished 6th 3 years consecutively, albeit minus Milner. Throw in the youngsters who have matured this season into Premier League players. Do we not also have some of the best training facilities in the country?
Instead of utilising what he had at his disposal he has alienated Dunne, Carew, Ireland as well as supposedly rowed with Lichaj and Albrigthon after yesterday's game. Ok, a lot of the disharmony is rumours etc, but i think in his case there is too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Now Dunne, Carew and Ireland are far from blameless. Through a combination of bad form and attitude they have not served us well this season. However, Dunne and Carew have served us exceptionally well in the past and Ireland, the little toerag that he is, has the capability to be a top player. I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
With regret, I have to say this post represents my thoughts.
The big problem here is that once you let the playaers become in effect more powerful than the manager, and able to get him sacked, you're heading for trouble. The most famous example for us was Manchester City with Ron Saunders and look what happened to them for thirty-odd years after.
Trouble is, it seems they are already more powerful than the manager. I want somebody capable of whipping these wankers into shape.
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Trouble is, it seems they are already more powerful than the manager. I want somebody capable of whipping these wankers into shape.
That's true, but when players can get a manager the sack you're heading into dangerous territory.
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He thinks pires is fit to start a prem league game-sack him
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Trouble is, it seems they are already more powerful than the manager. I want somebody capable of whipping these wankers into shape.
That's true, but when players can get a manager the sack you're heading into dangerous territory.
The stuff of nightmares.
I do not see pleasant times ahead.
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Trouble is, it seems they are already more powerful than the manager. I want somebody capable of whipping these wankers into shape.
That's true, but when players can get a manager the sack you're heading into dangerous territory.
The stuff of nightmares.
I do not see pleasant times ahead.
I think you are underestimating GH. I don't believe there is a more unpleasant enemy among today's Premiership managers, except, perhaps, SAF. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing, but if there are players trying to start a mutiny they are more likely to find themselves than GH on their way out.
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I would agree. He has no alternative but to rid the club of bad blood..Neither has Randy!
Any other route is inviting disaster.
Do they have the money to replace the problems players?
What a parlous state we are in.
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I remember john gregory once saying stan told him' I'm going nowhere, you'll get sacked before I go'- player power is absurd but If houllier does stay and rids the club of the poison players then we will all be better off in the long run- I wonder how o neill would have handled this , I suspect pretty similar in that he wuld get rid !
Dunne was great last year- maybe Ireland has caused much of this shit, he has a vile reputation and should not have been signed without a manager- as for Carew , a total disgrace of a player - I can tolerate errors but not the abject couldn't give a fuck attitude of his displays for the past year- get rid on a free!
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Tarzans brother I thought and said at the time that your comment about during the match thread that someone in the dugout looks like having a heart attack was a disgrace- please refer to geds abilities as a manager and stop bleating on about his previous health!
Please show the guy some respect whether you want him or not!
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Well we have to do something pretty drastic, and wuick.
We are now officially -Barclays Premier League Stats- bottom of the 'form guide'. Bottom 20th.
Worse perhaps: Wolves up to 6th
Wham 7th
Small Heath 13th
Wigan 14th
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What happened to Martin Laursen maybe we should higher him as the new defencise coach as it's obvious we don't have one still!
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In the cold light of day this morning the position if anything looks bleaker than ever.
Dave referred to the Ron Saunders at Manchester City episode being the most high profile example of the abuse of player power. There is an even more famous and well documented one and that is the treatment of Brian Clough at Leeds.
We are just a bunch of blokes in our underpants in the spare bedroom and we are fighting like cats in a sack so imagine what the dressing room and the team bus must be like. First thing Houllier or his replacement has to do is restore discipline and establish managerial authority.
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Daily Right Wing Nasty Paper's view:
Gerard Houllier in trouble as Aston Villa chiefs consider under-fire Frenchman's future
By Neil Moxley
Gerard Houllier's position as manager at Aston Villa is now under review after the club's power-brokers left Eastlands in a shocked state on Tuesday evening.
Villa owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner were left reeling by the manner in which Houllier's team rolled over against Manchester City and are now considering their next move.
Both Villa Park decision-makers are reluctant to call time on the Frenchman after appointing him just three-and-a-half months ago.
But with a wage bill in excess of that being spent by Champions League qualifiers Tottenham, the fact that a dreadful run of just one victory in six - the other five were defeats - has left Villa just one point above the relegation zone means that they cannot look the other way for much longer.
There will be no knee-jerk reaction to the dreadful 4-0 showing against City but the next four matches will prove crucial.
Defeat by Chelsea this Sunday is unlikely to spell the end but further reversals against Sunderland and in the FA Cup by Sheffield United would leave the 63-year-old fighting to save his job ahead of the derby against Birmingham.
Houllier will have to plot Villa's escape route without spending too heavily in the transfer window.
The former Liverpool boss has been told he will only be able to spend money he generates in January.
At present, Werder Bremen and Leicester City are fighting over a £2.5million move for Curtis Davies but that is the only deal on the table.
Houllier was given the go-ahead to sign France Under 19 midfielder Guida Fofana from Le Havre for £800,000 and take Jamaica international Omar Cummings on trial, but the nature of Tuesday's defeat has placed the manager under the spotlight.
The Villa boss has alienated so many players that he has few options to swap and change his side.
John Carew, Richard Dunne and Stephen Ireland did not travel to Manchester. Several others, such as Habib Beye and Moustapha Salifou are also on the fringes.
Supporters are also distinctly unimpressed with the arrival of Robert Pires.
Either they make this stuff up or someone from the club's feeding out a story. Be interesting to see the players response over the next 4 games.
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I just cannot see how GH is going to turn it around, I see not fight in the players. I'm prepared to back him, only because he's not been here long.
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Moxley hasn't used any quotes or sources there, he's just stating the obvious.
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Moxley hasn't used any quotes or sources there, he's just stating the obvious.
....and making the rest up.
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Daily Right Wing Nasty Paper's view:
Gerard Houllier in trouble as Aston Villa chiefs consider under-fire Frenchman's future
By Neil Moxley
Gerard Houllier's position as manager at Aston Villa is now under review after the club's power-brokers left Eastlands in a shocked state on Tuesday evening.
Villa owner Randy Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner were left reeling by the manner in which Houllier's team rolled over against Manchester City and are now considering their next move.
Both Villa Park decision-makers are reluctant to call time on the Frenchman after appointing him just three-and-a-half months ago.
But with a wage bill in excess of that being spent by Champions League qualifiers Tottenham, the fact that a dreadful run of just one victory in six - the other five were defeats - has left Villa just one point above the relegation zone means that they cannot look the other way for much longer.
There will be no knee-jerk reaction to the dreadful 4-0 showing against City but the next four matches will prove crucial.
Defeat by Chelsea this Sunday is unlikely to spell the end but further reversals against Sunderland and in the FA Cup by Sheffield United would leave the 63-year-old fighting to save his job ahead of the derby against Birmingham.
Houllier will have to plot Villa's escape route without spending too heavily in the transfer window.
The former Liverpool boss has been told he will only be able to spend money he generates in January.
At present, Werder Bremen and Leicester City are fighting over a £2.5million move for Curtis Davies but that is the only deal on the table.
Houllier was given the go-ahead to sign France Under 19 midfielder Guida Fofana from Le Havre for £800,000 and take Jamaica international Omar Cummings on trial, but the nature of Tuesday's defeat has placed the manager under the spotlight.
The Villa boss has alienated so many players that he has few options to swap and change his side.
John Carew, Richard Dunne and Stephen Ireland did not travel to Manchester. Several others, such as Habib Beye and Moustapha Salifou are also on the fringes.
Supporters are also distinctly unimpressed with the arrival of Robert Pires.
Either they make this stuff up or someone from the club's feeding out a story. Be interesting to see the players response over the next 4 games.
The reporter could have come on this site yesterday and picked the bones of the discussions going on and put them together to make the story. I do not think there is one thing that he says that did not appear here yesterday. That's not news.
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I note it seems to be a popular opinion to get rid of these and let Houllier get his own men in. Well Im afraid I would be of the opposite opinion and say get rid of Houllier and keep our best players, get in a new manager who knows the meaning of man-management and hopefully kick on from there.
At the moment I wouldn't say it's an either/or situation - get shot of players that are disrespecting the club (because no matter who is the manager that's what it boils down to) and also change the manager if he's not good enough, which right now seems to be the case.
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Tarzans brother I thought and said at the time that your comment about during the match thread that someone in the dugout looks like having a heart attack was a disgrace- please refer to geds abilities as a manager and stop bleating on about his previous health!
Please show the guy some respect whether you want him or not!
East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
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I think the first part is a good point John. Those players who have been so resistant to change under Houllier should be got shot of straight away, as they are simply not the type we need to progress. Dunne, Ireland, Carew etc.
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If randy persists with houllier as manager he must fully back him financially in the transfer Market- there can be no half measures or we are down!
You cannot say I'm giving him only what he generates and If that did happen then randy Lerner would clearly be not the man for this club- the next month is crucial and we can not have a dithering chairman!
Mr Lerner you either fully back the manager and make the full milner cash available so he has £20m at least or you sack him- anything in between and we will go down!
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I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
So his decision to change tactics in the Carling Cup tie against Blackburn -- a move which certainly out-witted Sam Allardyce, a figure portrayed as our saviour-in-waiting by some on this board -- is conveniently forgotten? What about our performance against Man Utd?
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
Totally disagree.
I don't think the mob turned on DOL after three months.
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No but he was in the bottom 3 when we beat Wolves in early December in his first season.
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
I'm not interested in what Fulham's fans were chanting. I think Hughes will get it right at Fulham, based on his ability at his previous clubs. I don't believe Houllier will get it right on the basis he has been out of the coaching aspect of the game for too long and the discontentment in the dressing room.
Are you telling me you'd rather have Houllier than Hughes?
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So many of you going into blind panic wanting to sack a manager who has only been in the job a few short months the entire duration of which the transfer window is closed and he has had an unprecedented number of injuries to deal with.
Im glad the ones calling for immediate sackings are not on the board. Villa has been a relatively stable club for 40 years because for the most part we have always given our managers time compared with some others clubs I could think of.
May I respectfully suggest some of you change your nicknames to Mike Ashley.
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So many of you going into blind panic wanting to sack a manager who has only been in the job a few short months the entire duration of which the transfer window is closed and he has had an unprecedented number of injuries to deal with.
Im glad the ones calling for immediate sackings are not on the board. Villa has been a relatively stable club for 40 years because for the most part we have always given our managers time compared with some others clubs I could think of.
May I respectfully suggest some of you change your nicknames to Mike Ashley.
This isn't a knee jerk reaction, it's just blatantly obvious this isn't going to work. He's lost of the dressing room, his tatics are shocking, and the players are massively low in confidence and he's incapable of changing that. That's why Lerner needs to change it now andget somebody in to lift the players before it's too late.
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I can't recall a more unpopular manager than Houllier, even DOL commanded more respect
Totally disagree.
I don't think the mob turned on DOL after three months.
I wish we had have done.
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
I'm not interested in what Fulham's fans were chanting. I think Hughes will get it right at Fulham, based on his ability at his previous clubs. I don't believe Houllier will get it right on the basis he has been out of the coaching aspect of the game for too long and the discontentment in the dressing room.
Are you telling me you'd rather have Houllier than Hughes?
I don't want Hughes, never did. Houllier is our manager now and I think it would be madness to change again so soon after appointing him but if goes I want somebody better than Hughes.
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
I'm not interested in what Fulham's fans were chanting. I think Hughes will get it right at Fulham, based on his ability at his previous clubs. I don't believe Houllier will get it right on the basis he has been out of the coaching aspect of the game for too long and the discontentment in the dressing room.
Are you telling me you'd rather have Houllier than Hughes?
I don't want Hughes, never did. Houllier is our manager now and I think it would be madness to change again so soon after appointing him but if goes I want somebody better than Hughes.
Spot on in regards to getting better than Hughes
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
I'm not interested in what Fulham's fans were chanting. I think Hughes will get it right at Fulham, based on his ability at his previous clubs. I don't believe Houllier will get it right on the basis he has been out of the coaching aspect of the game for too long and the discontentment in the dressing room.
Are you telling me you'd rather have Houllier than Hughes?
I don't want Hughes, never did. Houllier is our manager now and I think it would be madness to change again so soon after appointing him but if goes I want somebody better than Hughes.
I'm trying to believe that Fofana and the potential singing of Moukon are going to change things for the better. The synic in me just sees a midfield duo of Berson & Djemba-Djemba
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I think Mark Hughes would be our manager if O'Neil left in May. An appointment I wouldn't have had a problem with. The General himself said they liked Hughes but the timing was wrong due to him being appointed Fulham's new gaffer
That's a man in charge of a club currently below us in the league where his own fans were chanting "you don't know what your doing" at him the other day.
I'm not interested in what Fulham's fans were chanting. I think Hughes will get it right at Fulham, based on his ability at his previous clubs. I don't believe Houllier will get it right on the basis he has been out of the coaching aspect of the game for too long and the discontentment in the dressing room.
Are you telling me you'd rather have Houllier than Hughes?
I don't want Hughes, never did. Houllier is our manager now and I think it would be madness to change again so soon after appointing him but if goes I want somebody better than Hughes.
I'm trying to believe that Fofana and the potential singing of Moukon are going to change things for the better. The synic in me just sees a midfield duo of Berson & Djemba-Djemba
we will just stick with Salifou and Sidwell then.. Its a start , a young french player who arsenal, Barcalona and Chelsa have been watching and a chumps league player who Arsenal were going to pay £11 million for. bring it on and a few more please
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OK, as bad as it sounds, let's write off the Chelsea game as the loss it most probably will be. Up to the end of Jan that then leaves.....
Aston Villa v Sunderland
Sheff Utd v Aston Villa (FA Cup)
Birmingham v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Man City
Wigan v Aston Villa
7 points needed I'd say from that lot.
And a couple of key things during that period:-
1. An away win is needed to show improvement.
2. A loss to Blues and the knives will certainly be out.
3. As they will if we get another tonking by Man City.
4. It seems less important now, but a third round knockout to lower league opposition would be another nail in his coffin.
5. And then we need to sign players, and good ones that can have an almost immediate impact, during this time.
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Sidwell out, Fofana in, this will be the first positive thing GH has done, lets hope there are a few more moves like this in Jan before it's too late.
Is this Omar Cummings any good ?
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Sidwell out, Fofana in is like having a new signing.
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I've just seen a few clips of Fofana and he seems very composed on the ball,reads the game well,good passer,but he'll really need to hit the ground running if he does come into the team,which is always hard for a teenage foreigner,as it'll take him time to settle and thats something that we dont really have at the minute.
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Does Fofana play the anchor mid role ?
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I've just seen a few clips of Fofana and he seems very composed on the ball,reads the game well,good passer,but he'll really need to hit the ground running if he does come into the team,which is always hard for a teenage foreigner,as it'll take him time to settle and thats something that we dont really have at the minute.
well all the experience british players we have , have been useless. So he cant be any worse...
Get him on the bench ASAP
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Does Fofana play the anchor mid role ?
think Patrick Viera
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I've just seen a few clips of Fofana and he seems very composed on the ball,reads the game well,good passer,but he'll really need to hit the ground running if he does come into the team,which is always hard for a teenage foreigner,as it'll take him time to settle and thats something that we dont really have at the minute.
Maybe Fofana is the longterm plan and Makoun is coming until he's ready for regular first team action? £7m isn't massive in today's market and he's 27, so it might make some sense.
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I've just seen a few clips of Fofana and he seems very composed on the ball,reads the game well,good passer,but he'll really need to hit the ground running if he does come into the team,which is always hard for a teenage foreigner,as it'll take him time to settle and thats something that we dont really have at the minute.
Maybe Fofana is the longterm plan and Makoun is coming until he's ready for regular first team action? £7m isn't massive in today's market and he's 27, so it might make some sense.
can we at least get rid of salifou then? please
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he might be off the mark Dave but Libellous?
Saying players want the manager sacked isn't far off that.
its probably not that far off the truth either, i havent seen many of the predictable and inane "we are all behind the manager " quotes
Then it's the players who are an absolute disgrace and not the manager?
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What is deemed as "Gross Misconduct" for a professional footballer?
Does the term even exist in their world ?
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he might be off the mark Dave but Libellous?
Saying players want the manager sacked isn't far off that.
its probably not that far off the truth either, i havent seen many of the predictable and inane "we are all behind the manager " quotes
Then it's the players who are an absolute disgrace and not the manager?
some of these players know , they are on the way out. Maybe get rid of manager , they can get back in the comfort zone and take their obscene wages still for doing nothing...
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
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What is deemed as "Gross Misconduct" for a professional footballer?
Does the term even exist in their world ?
The term is void of any meaning as long as Joey Barton still gets paid to play the game.
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
Normally I would agree but given that means we will also be relegated, we just don't have that luxury. Or do you think relegation is a price worth paying to get rid of the dross?
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So many of you going into blind panic wanting to sack a manager who has only been in the job a few short months the entire duration of which the transfer window is closed and he has had an unprecedented number of injuries to deal with.
Im glad the ones calling for immediate sackings are not on the board. Villa has been a relatively stable club for 40 years because for the most part we have always given our managers time compared with some others clubs I could think of.
May I respectfully suggest some of you change your nicknames to Mike Ashley.
Well said that man. It's like friday night at the wailing wall on this thread.
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What is deemed as "Gross Misconduct" for a professional footballer?
Does the term even exist in their world ?
The term is void of any meaning as long as Joey Barton still gets paid to play the game.
Normally if you stub a lighted cigar into someone's eye you would expect to receive an instant dismissal. If your a professional footballer however you get 16 more chances and increase your salary on each occasion.
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
Normally I would agree but given that means we will also be relegated, we just don't have that luxury. Or do you think relegation is a price worth paying to get rid of the dross?
This dross has got us there...
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
To be fair, of the players we most want out right now, who are Carew, Dunne and Ireland, one wasn't here under the last manager and the other two were valued players under him. OK, Carew was running his contract down anyway, but it seems to me we have more 'dross' now than we did when he left.
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it seems to me we have more 'dross' now than we did when he left.
It wouldn't be the first time in history that a person (suddenly) leaves his post. only for the successor to discover several skeletons in the cupboard afterwards.
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Looking at the results of the poll, and using industry standards the following can be confirmed
[The board should take note of these results]
Using industry levels we can be 95% certian that should we ask 25,000 season ticket holders the question, should we back or sack GH then the results would be:
Sack GH would be on top with between: 57.9% and 70.5% of the 25,000 asked. [using a confidence interval of 6.3%]
So to summarise between 57.9% and 70.5% of a potential 25,000 season ticket holders would with 95% confidence say:
Sack GH now
Mark
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(Use the same method to ask the population if taxes should be raised or cut. The majority would, no doubt, vote for a tax cut. Taxes should be cut, and the government would be bankrupt within ten years.)
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
The squad of players Houllier inherited had finished 6th for the 3 previous seasons, had one of the best defensive records in the PL and an excellent away record, combined with the fact half of that squad were unhappy under MON, Houllier has not shown he is a good manager or coach. We have seen more toothless, gutless performances from this squad in 4 months than in the previous 3 years, i don't buy it that all the players are to blame, the manager has the ultimate repsonsibility to get the players to perform and to get results. Houllier has done neither. He looks totally out of his depth. If he cannot manage a group of over paid players, the he cannot manage in the PL end of. Every PL team is full of over paid over hyped greedy players, it's the nature of the beast these days.
I agree we need to give him until the end of the season and a transfer window or two, but i really don't think he has the fight in him. I would love him to prove me wrong as i do think he knows how he wants his team to play, but if he can't manage and motivate the players to achieve his aim, then he will fail. The basic skill of a football manager is to get the players to do what he wants, Houllier does not have this skill.
Our stat's and the league table does not lie, things need to improve quickly.
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We're undoubtedly in a transition year, and the fixture list between 5th February and 14th May is cause for optimism. In that time, the only side we play who finished in last season's top 8 are Everton, and we may be playing them with new signings and a few wins under our belt. Arsenal away and Liverpool at home are a tough final two games to have, but I think we'll have enough to pick up momentum during that four-month period.
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From The Guardian:
Gérard Houllier retains the support of the Aston Villa owner, Randy Lerner, despite the club's slide towards the Premier League relegation zone, according to the Press Association.
Houllier will be backed in the January transfer window and is close to sealing a deal to sign France's Under-19 captain, Gueïda Fofana, from Le Havre for around £800,000.
Villa are only a point above the bottom three after the 4-0 defeat at Manchester City on Tuesday, with their next fixture Sunday's trip to the champions, Chelsea. But sources at Villa indicate Lerner and the chief executive, Paul Faulkner, remain confident Houllier will eventually revive Villa's fortunes.
Houllier took over in mid-September after the summer transfer window had closed and has presided over only three league wins since replacing Martin O'Neill.
He has been handicapped by a series of injuries to senior players including Stilian Petrov, Emile Heskey, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Nigel Reo-Coker, Steve Sidwell and Luke Young. In addition John Carew, Stephen Ireland and Richard Dunne appear likely to move on in January after falling out with Houllier.
Lerner recognises the seriousness of Villa's current plight, which contrasts with top-six finishes in their previous three campaigns. But speculation that he and Faulkner met Houllier in Manchester after the debacle at Eastlands is wide of the mark and the Villa manager travelled home on the team coach.
After the trip to Stamford Bridge, Villa entertain Sunderland next Wednesday ahead of an FA Cup tie at Sheffield United three days later.
Fofana is regarded as one of France's brightest prospects and led his country to European Under-19 Championship success during the summer. He is well known to Houllier from his previous role as France's technical director.
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
Is this the same dross that finished 6th last season, 1 point ahead of Liverpool, 3 points behind Money City and 6 points off 4th place, and a Cup Final appearance?
Some people need to get out of their heads that the last manager left a load of crap behind, he did'nt. He overpaid for a few of them yes, but they were decent players a few months ago, what's changed?
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
Is this the same dross that finished 6th last season, 1 point ahead of Liverpool, 3 points behind Money City and 6 points off 4th place, and a Cup Final appearance?
Some people need to get out of their heads that the last manager left a load of crap behind, he did'nt. He overpaid for a few of them yes, but they were decent players a few months ago, what's changed?
How decent were Steve Sidwell, Habib Beye, and Curtis Davies? What about Warnock who has been shit for nigh on an entire year?
We paid 9.5m for Davies, and he's currently on loan at Leicester City. We paid 5 for Sidwell, who has run his contract out, picked up 50k a week for 3 years and contributed the square root of fuck all.
And I imagine you were amongst those who complained we'd sold our best player in Milner. You can't have it both ways, he either was or was not out best player, and he's gone, so it is not the same team at all.
Furthermore, I'll tell you something else that has changed, the dreadful run of injuries we've had. Everyone knew, even when MON was there, that we had a very light squad, and now we're paying the price for it.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
We'll all pull through eventually. People write players, managers, teams etc off so incredibly quickly anyway that, given an actual poor start, GH has been thoroughly dismissed by many. But a poor start doesn't mean everything, and pure statistics don't tell the whole story. We've had an utterly horrendous run of fixtures as well (as our relatively benign three-month fixture list from February to May will testify), always missing at least two of last season's crucial players, usually more. But hey, why not, sack him, that always works.
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I've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers
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Just a queston????and i aint on here to gloat chaps,but i dont fall for this "to good to go down lark"....but who had the better squad on paper? newcastle when they went down?or the current villa squad...
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As far as I'm concerned Houllier gets some leeway due to Milner going and the injuries, but not enough to see us 1 point off relegation.
Injuries or no, we have an unmotivated and dis-orgainsed team.
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Nicked
I've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers
Nicked
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
Is this the same dross that finished 6th last season, 1 point ahead of Liverpool, 3 points behind Money City and 6 points off 4th place, and a Cup Final appearance?
Some people need to get out of their heads that the last manager left a load of crap behind, he did'nt. He overpaid for a few of them yes, but they were decent players a few months ago, what's changed?
And I imagine you were amongst those who complained we'd sold our best player in Milner. You can't have it both ways, he either was or was not out best player, and he's gone, so it is not the same team at all.
I'm sorry but where the hell did that come from? How do you know how i felt about Milner going? If you must know, i'm of the opinion that if a player dose'nt want to play for us anymore, then let him go and that's always been the case.
As for the rest of your post, don't get me wrong, MON was'nt without fault, of course he was'nt, like i said, he paid far far too much for certain players, but my point is they got us to a decent position in the league. Bearing in mind where we are now, 6th place is not to be sniffed at.
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Just a queston????and i aint on here to gloat chaps,but i dont fall for this "to good to go down lark"....but who had the better squad on paper? newcastle when they went down?or the current villa squad...
Us.
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I partly agree with you paulie, but i wholly agree with Mac.
I have my reservations about GH, and some of his utterances are ill-conceived but he has'nt been given any opportunity to bring his own players in.If Forfan is the kind of player he is trying to bring in then i am more than happy to give him some time.
We have to be realistic, MONs team has gone, the players who performed for MON for some reason are not doing it this year, the positives about GHs tenure is the emergence of players like Bannan, Licjah, Clarke, and i'm quite happy to give him a bit more time.
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NickedI've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers
Nicked
eh?
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(Use the same method to ask the population if taxes should be raised or cut. The majority would, no doubt, vote for a tax cut. Taxes should be cut, and the government would be bankrupt within ten years.)
Not much point running a poll if the results are just window dressing
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
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East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.
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NickedI've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers
Nicked
eh?
I think that Mac wants to use that elsewhere. Great analogy btw.
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East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.
Since when did this forum censure people for spouting thier opinions? have you read through some of the off topic threads?
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East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.
Since when did this forum censure people for spouting thier opinions? have you read through some of the off topic threads?
To answer your question, I imagine that depends on the opinions. However, I was not just referring to this forum.
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This point about injuries is running thin as well. We had Petrov and NRC fit and available, but Houllier decides to play Delph and Hogg.
He shipped Davies out to Leicester, so he can't complain about injuries there.
He didn't play Cuellar when it was obvious Dunne was hopelessly out of shape and lacking form and confidence.
He couldn't get Ireland or Carew to perform, but chose to publicly criticise them instead, so not injuries there.
Does anybody know if Ashley Young is really injured, or is he being saved for selling?
I agree we had a patch when the squad was thin, but that is not the case now, people keep going on about injuries like it is some new phenomenon that has only happened to Villa, it happens to all teams.
The truth is we have the strongest squad of players ever seen at VP, but a manager who will not or cannot manage them efficiently enough.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.
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This point about injuries is running thin as well. We had Petrov and NRC fit and available, but Houllier decides to play Delph and Hogg.
Fully fit? I'm not so sure.
He shipped Davies out to Leicester, so he can't complain about injuries there.
Centre-back is the one area where we haven't really suffered from injuries.
He didn't play Cuellar when it was obvious Dunne was hopelessly out of shape and lacking form and confidence.
He has, actually.
He couldn't get Ireland or Carew to perform, but chose to publicly criticise them instead, so not injuries there.
Yeah, because their attitudes have been beyond reproach. Plus Carew has been injured, as has Ireland on occasion.
Does anybody know if Ashley Young is really injured, or is he being saved for selling?
Now come on, you cannot be serious.
I agree we had a patch when the squad was thin, but that is not the case now, people keep going on about injuries like it is some new phenomenon that has only happened to Villa, it happens to all teams.
Not many teams have an entire first XI out, and our lack of reserves beneath that first XI was utterly exposed.
The truth is we have the strongest squad of players ever seen at VP, but a manager who will not or cannot manage them efficiently enough.
"Strongest squad of players ever seen at VP"? Are you joking? And it comes back to the point, I'm afraid - how can you judge a manager's management of players who are injured like this?
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when
1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space
2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)
In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.
I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when
1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space
2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)
In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.
.. along with the situation that we were left high and dry at the onset of the season. To an extent, I think that Lerner has to take some of the blame, but that was perhaps his naivety in trusting MON far too much. We had issues in May that could have been addressed, either with a sacking, or with a mutually agreed "prime directive" between MON and Lerner.
Instead, they started playing little "high noon" games, with MON in the end shooting himself at an inappropriate time.
I still have faith in the Board and they have learnt a helluva lot of this past 6 months about Football and indeed Aston Villa.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when
1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space
2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)
In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.
It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.
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DO people really believe things would be that much better this season with mon? He has his bust ups with plenty of players and with the loss of milner and the injuries suffered I don't think we would have been much different from where we are now.
Lerner has to back the manager fully financially in January if he believes he's the right man- get 4 or 5 of houlliers kind of players in and get rid of some of the troublemakers and we might move onwards and upwards- the manager if backed should be given at least £20m to spend- much of it still unspent from last summer.
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It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.
So, it's the same squad, the same resources, except half of them weren't available.
Oh, and the best player wasn't there any more. And the one we brought in as part of the deal turned out to be as big a mentalist as we thought.
You might not think he didn't use the players properly, that's a whole different argument, and I'd agree with you on some of them. In fact, I'm not a fan of Houllier.
I like what he wants to do, and in several games we have played some very good football. However, I don't like his constant slip ups and gaffes, i don't like some of his selection decisions, I particularly don't like the lack of direction we seem to be showing on the pitch, and I am very, very worried by our form, but I can see we've had a horrific injury list, and it is that which makes saying he has the same resources as last year patently not true.
For all that I don't like him, though, and for all that I'm worried the way things are going - very worried - I think there is a certain amount of "throw some extra shit at him while he's down" going on.
I also have not heard a single convincing argument to the question "sack him now, and then what do we do?" yet. I know it is all about opinions, and I understand why people might want him sacked to show him what we think, but I genuinely am at a loss as to how anyone thinks that, having had the season of disruption we have had so far, sacking our manager the day before the transfer window, which we've almost certainly been preparing for for months opens is going to improve anything.
Clubs which go through four or five managers in a year usually end up in one place.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
No, I mean people who say that he's had the same resources as last season when
1. We've had an injury list so large, it is visible from space
2. We sold our best player (as the same people pointed out at the time)
In the case of the injury list, there's nothing opinionated about it - it is a fact.
It's the same squad, the same resources, but with injuries. Every PL team has to deal with injuries. The point is when these injured players have been available, he still didn't utilise them properly, NRC, Petrov, Cuellar, Ireland, Carew.
I don't know how he was supposed to utilise Ireland properly. The guy blatently doesn't want to be here or on the pitch. I suppose he could carry on playing him till eventually finds some form or police advise Houllier to drop him for his own safety, but there was plenty of complaints on here during MON's time of him continually playing people out of form
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I was down at Fulham earlier in the season when Ireland came off the bench with 10 mins to go and starting spraying passes round the pitch and set up a few attacks. Unfortunatley, our strikers could'nt finish the game off and we all know what happened in the last minute.
I don't think he's been given as much of a crack as he should have. It's a pity he want's away apparantley because i'd have perservered with him.
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I keep flitting between wanting him sacked, and giving him time to build a team he is happy with. But, I just dont like him. I didnt want him here. In my opinion I feel he thinks he is doing us a favour by being here, just like that smug shit O'Leary. I dont like his tactics, I dont think Liverpool played good football when he was manager there, and bar Hyppia and Henchoz, his transfers were a million miles worse than MONs.
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Injuries and resources are one thing, but organisation and motivation are another. Houllier may have had no control over the former, but he is totally responsible for the latter.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.
I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career
What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS
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Everyone knew Ireland was potentially "difficult" before we signed him, coupled with the fact he'd hardly kicked a ball in the previous season so wouldn't be at his physical peak. Nevertheless, he would have had, you imagine, a point or two to prove. Considering we got him as a make-weight in the Milner deal, it's disappointing it's all gone spectacularly wrong so quickly and he seems to be out of the picture. There's a mark against the player himself, either attitude, fitness or whatever, but it doesn't reflect well on the management/coaching staff either in seemingly having given up on him so early. No doubt he'll be off for a cut price and another club will look to turn him around and we'll spend the money on a less troubled but ultimately poorer talent.
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.
I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career
What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS
I have no problem with him having his own ideas. If you are happy to say 'This season is a write off anyway' then you are the idiot. I paid good money for a season ticket this season, and most certainly didnt see it as a write off. If the club felt that way, then I want my bloody money back.
Like I said, fair enough having his own ideas, but it looks like he has tried to change too much too soon. Going back to your write off comment, would it not make sense to keep some stability in the squad, get points on the board, build/restructure in January, and then implement the new philosophy in the summer?
Or, are you happy for him to tear apart 4 years hard work in the space of four months, just because he wants to do things his way?
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If this was any other club we would be laughing at them for calling for the gaffers head. Take the emtional head off for a second and you can see that it would be a mad knee jerk reaction to get rid off GH.
In the close season a lot of people were saying they wouldn't mind an 8th to 10th place finish if we played some better football, that was before MON had gone. There is still no reason why we can't finish in the top half of the table, after our horrendous run of form we are still only a couple of points off.
We need to let GH bring his own playing staff in, two or three wins on the bounce things will look very different. We acheive nothing by getting rid of GH bar repeating the first half of the season.
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We acheive nothing by getting rid of GH bar repeating the first half of the season.
I think that's the most succinct description of the situation I've seen anyone make.
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I've used the analogy before but MON was like a competant average chef. At leicester he wowed them with his cod, chips, and mushy pees. Then he got a gig up north at a glasgow little chef and stunned them with his Haddock, french fries and runner beans. Then he came to us and his plaice, new boiled potatoes and petit pois was a hit. He varied it a bit and the ingrediants got a bit more expensive but it was still basically fish and chips. Now Houllier wants to come in and be a bit more adventurous but he's looked in the kitchen and all he has is two sacks of out of date potatoes, some homegrown greens and a fridge full of fish fingers
Hahaha!
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It's not the same team though, is it? We've lost Milner and have had huge amounts of injuries for most of the season, so they've not been using the same resources.
It gets tiring having to point out very basic little points like this to people who've decided where they stand and wont be budged.
Do you mean by 'won't be budged' as they have a different opinion?
I think thats exactly what they mean Clampy. If you look at it, there is about 85% of the clientel that did so well last season, that have been fit for most of his Houlliers tenure. The big issue is the injuries were in the centre of midfield, where we already had a big gap to fill after Milner left. I dont think the injuries have helped, but I still think the team he inherited, played correctly, should be occupying a higher league position than we currently do. We are three points off the bottom ffs.
I sort of agree that this side played correctly (i.e. MON's tactics) should be higher but that's the point really. He doesn't want to play that way and to be fair he'll just be a shite version of MON if he does. You could say he's gone too fast and it should be evolution instead of revolution but he's obviously not happy with some of the application or ablity of members of his squad and wants to change thing asap. The next month will tell if he's getting it right or he's made the biggest mistake of his career
What would people have him do? if he is afraid to implement his own idea's and follow them through to the end, then he is not fit to manage Aston Villa. If he was to carry on playing MONs way and using 14players all season then maybe we would be further up the table but when do people propose he change it around? next season? or this one, which is a write off anyway. Hopefully, he will have everything in place by the start of next season to allow normal service to resume. A few in, a few out and there will be a squad fit for the style of play he wants.
GH Out? Idiots. You sound like Liverpool fans FFS
I have no problem with him having his own ideas. If you are happy to say 'This season is a write off anyway' then you are the idiot. I paid good money for a season ticket this season, and most certainly didnt see it as a write off. If the club felt that way, then I want my bloody money back.
Like I said, fair enough having his own ideas, but it looks like he has tried to change too much too soon. Going back to your write off comment, would it not make sense to keep some stability in the squad, get points on the board, build/restructure in January, and then implement the new philosophy in the summer?
Or, are you happy for him to tear apart 4 years hard work in the space of four months, just because he wants to do things his way?
That four years hard work was never going to get us any higher than the 6th place we acheived. We will need to restructure hopefully that will lead to a team that will out perform the MON team. Do you think when Wenger or Ferguson leave the new manager won't want to change the personel and/or playing style?
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I think a big part of the problem here is that we didn't just lose the manager 5days before kick off, we lost the entire senior coaching team so even if houllier wanted to do a slow transition that would normally involve telling the coaches to do what they were doing and then offering small changes over time, when he arrived the coaching had already been changed.
The real mistake was in taking too long to appoint him and therefore not being able to get a couple of late buys in before the window closed.
From where we are now we have to trust houllier with some cash in january and hope that he gets 3-4players in who can serve (along with Pires) as examples of what he wants the rest of the squad to do.
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East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same ce
East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.
Totally disagree. He aint been the same person/manager since his illness and he said so himself. Yes he has now said he is fully recovered but i dont buy that. He should never had been hired as manager.
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Of course, but do you think said person would try to make such massive changes to a team that, in your own post you admit yourself, was a team that was capable of a top six finish. Barring things that have been discussed above. Like I said, I have no problem with him changing things, but I think he has tried to change too much too soon, rather than stabilise, and change gradually throughout the season. It seems you have picked something out of my post to jump to a conclusion. Correct me if Im wrong.
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Whatever your opinion on GH or the current board,
Whether you think RL is the messiah and is beyond reproach [he has certianly done good things in his time here] it doesnt change the fact that...
There is something going seriously wrong at the Villa!
Whether it is the players or the manangers style or maybe lex luther has snuck in and planted cryptonite under the pitch; one thing however is certain [and I know that some will not like this]
Randy and the board need to sort this out, they are in charge and they need to take charge and either back or sack.
We are following the same path as in 1986/87 and thier is a massive chance that we could go down, and I we will be lucky to find another GT to save us this time around.
I seriously doubt that the kind of funds needed to put Villa back into the top six will be given in either January or the summer, I can see however that Ashley Young will be sold in order to generate a transfer fund for whatever manager is in charge, [lets face it he is the only top price star we have left] and for those who would dissagree...
Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner
We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.
Without a large investment can you really see us competing against the likes of Man Ure, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool or the next few Blackburn, Everton, Newcastle etc...
We are a top 10 ten if we are lucky, time to face the truth we had our supernovea under MoN and the light is going out.
I hope I am wrong and Lerner et al will invest heavily but I feel the money is not thier
Mark
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Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner
We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.
Carrick
Berbatov
Keane
All clubs are selling clubs at some point, and at some price.
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Ronaldo.
Every player has their price. Utd sold their best player. Does that make them a selling club?
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What happens now is all about "managing risk".
I think keeping GH is too risky. For so many reasons mentioned on here - he is not the man. Yes getting a new face in is risky but I dont think we have a choice. Do you think he will get rid of GMaC? Do you think he will start coaching the defence again? Do you think he can get the squad fired up.
Is he the manager you want with 5 games to go needing 10 points? Do you think he gives a stuff?
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
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Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner
We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.
All clubs are selling clubs at some point, and at some price.
Agreed, however selling your best player while riding high is one thing, selling them when you are potentially about to bounce into the Championship is something else.
I see you are not commenting on whether we will sell Ashley Young or not
Mark
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
Spot on! (although we did play well against ManU for 80mins)
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Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first?
I wouldn't dream of calling either of you idiots, but will suggest that at times, we've played some very good football, and not got the points we really deserved.
Spurs away
Fulham away
Man United home
Blues CC
Stoke away
It's nothing that hints at us being due a charge into the top six, but you did ask for a single piece of evidence, and that'd be my suggestion.
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Maybe he's not as world class as you think he is. If he was, he would've gone by now.
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Dwight Yorke
David Platt
Gareth Barry
James Milner
We are a selling club, we have been for quite a while.
All clubs are selling clubs at some point, and at some price.
Agreed, however selling your best player while riding high is one thing, selling them when you are potentially about to bounce into the Championship is something else.
I see you are not commenting on whether we will sell Ashley Young or not
Mark
I've not commented on it on this thread as we've not sold him, so it seems a bit harsh to throw in him as evidence of us being a selling club.
I have said on other threads, though, that selling him in January would be absolute madness and only about getting a few quid more than waiting till the summer (when I think he'll be off)
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
My thoughts exactly
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Like they held onto Wayne Rooney, you mean?
And Lescott (who isn't world class in the sense that none of the players we've sold recently have been either, but they wanted to keep him)?
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I can't see where Houllier's perceived "sense of adventure" is in his football. Stylistically, we have players whose pretty triangles are normally rigid rectangles of tedium. Mark Draper return, all is forgiven. Downing, an alleged winger, seems afraid of reaching the byline. There is never any sense of urgency. Addmitedly, Gerard has a love of open football, if only leaving acres of room in midfield and a farmyard formation in defence. Our football used to be dire though, with Young, Milner and Gabby rampaging on the break, so I'm glad we've moved on to something the purists can relish.
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I was starting to feel a bit more positive today until I read Brian's post, which I can't find a great deal of fault in.
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There's an irony that Brian's splendid contribution as to the state we find ourselves in is his post number '1982'.
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Wonder if Houllier's been booked to sing You'll Never Walk Alone before our final home game of the season and relegation decider v Liverpool. I'm sure he'd jump at the (Dave) chance.
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The players inherited are not suited to the passing game he wants to play- they are not good Enough to adapt to his style and therefore the squad needs an overhaul- in the long term we would see good football and results but we simply must survive this season- I think the team that starts in august would see more than half of o neills regulars jettisoned.
Randy has taken the decision to stick by houllier and must now fully back him in the transfer Market, the deals done in January will decide where our future lies, I really believe we will see 4 or 5 players coming in to revamp things.
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We are not a selling club - certainly not since Randy took over. A selling club is one that develops players and then sells them as they need the money to stay afloat, Crew being a prime example and Wigan something similar in the PL.
What we are is a club that struggles to hold onto our best players as they see riches and trophies elsewhere and want them. We don't want to sell them, as aselling club would, but we can't hold onto them. Why that is is another matter entirely.
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We are not a selling club - certainly not since Randy took over. A selling club is one that develops players and then sells them as they need the money to stay afloat, Crew being a prime example and Wigan something similar in the PL.
What we are is a club that struggles to hold onto our best players as they see riches and trophies elsewhere and want them. We don't want to sell them, as aselling club would, but we can't hold onto them. Why that is is another matter entirely.
They are both the same, its just the reasons for selling that is different
Neither Barry nor Milner were out of contract so we could have held onto both.
But we didnt, why?
Because we are a selling club
Whether its is due to player power, market forces and or the possibility of loosing all value when they go on a free does not change the fact that we sold them on.
Hence we are a selling club...
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With Barry and milner their contracts were running down and they wished to go- they could have been sold or left on a free- what choice does the club have?
The same goes for ash- if he says he will not sign a new contract he will leave , the club tried to keep them but once a player wants to leave he will leave- that's the system. Even man utd and arsenal have lost their best players - we are not a selling club!
What sense would there be in them leaving for free , if a player doesn't want to be at Aston villa then let them go- I want players totally committed to our club.
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With Barry and milner their contracts were running down and they wished to go- they could have been sold or left on a free- what voice does the club have?
The same goes for ash- if he says he will not sign a new contract he will leave , the club tried to keep them but once a player wants to leave he will leave- that's the system. Even man utd and arsenal have lost their best players - we are not a selling club!
We are a selling club, [as are most clubs] the problem we have is that as soon as we develop a player they want to move [to win things and play champions league as they see that Villa never will] We aslo have the problem that we can't attract or afford the big name replacements [Ireland for Milner] For gods sake just look at the piss poor managerial choice we had to pick from.
We are a selling club, we are also a second level [third at the moment] premier league team
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
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To all you, 'it'll be alright on the night, no way are we going to get relegated' folks - please read Brian Green's post. He is absolutely spot on. Those of us who have or are about to get a bus pass have seen relegations before and on every occasion the main cause has been complacency/denial.
From what I have seen this season, on and off the pitch, not only is relegation around 75% certain but bottom place seems to have our name on it - unless something radical happens over the next 2 weeks (and that doesn't include GH spending money).
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I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
And on the proceeds built arguably the best Villa side of the last quarter of a century.
Houllier won't do anything comparable, even if he was given every last penny of the Milner money.
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In the o neill era we were the 3rd highest net spenders in the league- how can we be a selling club?man u lost ronaldo- are they a selling club?
Arsenal lost henry and vierra - are they a selling club- once a player wants to leave and his contract is running low he will go- that is football!
We have spent far more under randy than recouped in sales!
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
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East 19 I think his previous health issue is a factor and a big weakness. I apologise if a remark about his heart offended you but lets be honest its what everyone is thinking when you see his lonely figure on the sidelines. I am also afraid i cannot refer to any abilities the bloke has as i aint seen none since his arrival.
Yours, and some other people's appreciation of GH's medical history is the fan's equivalent of what is often called "lazy journalism" on this board. GH suffered from a dissected aorta in 2001, which is a serious and life threatening condition. Thankfully he wasn't one of the 50% of patients who don't even make it to the hospital. However, it has nothing at all to do with myocardial infarction (heart attack) as you and many others blithely presume, not that that would necessarily preclude him from managing a football club either.
To me, healthism comments are offensive and are up there with all the other 'isms and should be subject to the same censure.
Totally disagree. He aint been the same person/manager since his illness and he said so himself. Yes he has now said he is fully recovered but i dont buy that. He should never had been hired as manager.
GH's "illness" was a mechanical failure of a major artery that was repaired by surgery. I'm sure that he probably suffered from psychological damage for some time, but 10 years later, with a man of his intelligence, I would be surprised if he still did, so I'm not sure why you think differently.
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
Well, your definition seems to be anyone who ever sells a player, so every club in the history of the game is a selling club.
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In the o neill era we were the 3rd highest net spenders in the league- how can we be a selling club?man u lost ronaldo- are they a selling club?
Arsenal lost henry and vierra - are they a selling club- once a player wants to leave and his contract is running low he will go- that is football!
We have spent far more under randy than recouped in sales!
Yes those players were sold, but look at the prices they got.
Even when we have a really good player and we put a price on his head, what happens? do they meet it or do we go cap in hand and almost take anything they offer [Milner / Ireland]
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
Good post that
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
Well, your definition seems to be anyone who ever sells a player, so every club in the history of the game is a selling club.
No, and for this reason...
Other clubs choose when to sell and it usually benefits them.
We don't choose when to sell, we sell almost as soon as someone shows an interest and it rarely benefit us [did Milners sale benefit us?]
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
Man Utd lost both Ronaldo and Tevez for one or both of the reasons you stated.
A selling club to me is one who takes money for a player as soon as they're worth something.
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For me its not about selling but who we recruit. Houllier has shown nothing to suggest that he can make our current players play together. So we go forward into the new year with an £800k unknown youth french player as our saviour. That in my book is one massive risk.
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Here's an example. If Man City offered us £10m for Albrighton in January and we accepted it, then you could call us a selling club.
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
Man Utd lost both Ronaldo and Tevez for one or both of the reasons you stated.
A selling club to me is one who takes money for a player as soon as they're worth something.
Did selling them hurt United? you could argue that not having Ronaldo cost them the championship the following year, but where are they now?
We lose arguably are best player, get money we couldnt spend and a player that cant play!
Thats sound business sense!
I keep harking back to this but I really am getting that 86/87 feeling
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No, we're not a selling club. Milner and Barry wanted to go as soon as they heard they were wanted elsewhere. Same with Yorke, as soon as he heard Man Utd wanted him, he'd already deceided to pack, as his perfomance at Everton away showed.
I'd say the only player we've sold for the money is Platt and at the time £5.5m was a hell of a lot to turn down.
As I said, its just the reason for the sell thats different
We sold because we couldnt hold onto them. Why?
Because...
1. more money
2. better chance of winning things
3. both of the above
Either way we did sell, it just depends on your definition of a 'selling club'
Well, your definition seems to be anyone who ever sells a player, so every club in the history of the game is a selling club.
No, and for this reason...
Other clubs choose when to sell and it usually benefits them.
We don't choose when to sell, we sell almost as soon as someone shows an interest and it rarely benefit us [did Milners sale benefit us?]
Sorry, but how did Man U choose when to sell Ronaldo anymore then we did with Barry - a year after the strong pressure from Liverpool?
And no club can simply decide when to sell without a willing buyer.
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I think we got more for milner than he was worth- every transfer is a risk but we have to hope with houlliers contacts that he has lined up some decent players to join us- far better to bring in his kind of players than risk relegation with the current ones!
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The year we got relegated we actually spent quite a bit in the summer on Thompson, Cooper & Keown.
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I think we got more for milner than he was worth- every transfer is a risk but we have to hope with houlliers contacts that he has lined up some decent players to join us- far better to bring in his kind of players than risk relegation with the current ones!
But this what i don't understand. Why are these players we have got all of a sudden a risk for relegation? The squad's minus Milner but otherwise those group of players should be nowhere near the bottom three, it's ridiculous.
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What about risking relegation with our current manager East19? A couple of unknown french u21s are really going to make a difference?
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I think the key is that when a player is sold all that money is reinvested in new players- we are about to find out !
If GED is given only £5m to spend then maybe your argument of us being a selling club will have more credence- however I fully expect that the money will be given to him to spend - if not we are in dire straits!
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What about risking relegation with our current manager East19? A couple of unknown french u21s are really going to make a difference?
Lets stick to blaming him for the things he has done - as in the results since he took over - and not what we think he might do in the window.
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I remember when GT first arrived at VP and made the "shambles" quote. Do you think the next manager will be more diplomatic?
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If we were to bring in a new manager now, you can bet your last penny that Lerner would choose a manager who has been managing in the premiership for most of the last two or three years. I think we should also consider this when buying players. Is an U19 player from France really going to help in the fight against relegation? We've already got enough "stars of the future", we need someone who is ready to make an impact from day one at the club.
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The window hasn't began yet Tarzan so we dint know who will be coming in- maybe the young French lad is one of several signings so we cannot judge him on that till jan 31st.
As for the players clampy, houllier is trying to play a totally different style of passing football and the team o neill built played very differently to pass and move.the players he inherited are not good enough for the style houllier wants to play.
It's like allardyce taking over a team like arsenal and telling them from now on it's going to be all up and under football- teams are built to play a certain way and o neill and houllier are opposites in style!
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If we were to bring in a new manager now, you can bet your last penny that Lerner would choose a manager who has been managing in the premiership for most of the last two or three years. I think we should also consider this when buying players. Is an U19 player from France really going to help in the fight against relegation? We've already got enough "stars of the future", we need someone who is ready to make an impact from day one at the club.
Why not "stars of the future" and immediate impact players? The two are not mutually exclusive.
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They are not, but like Gareth Bale and James Milner , i.e the kinds of players who would make an impact at such an early age our probably out of our price bracket. Maybe not, but can anyone think of an example of, say , an U21 player who had an immediate impact , especially when coming from abroad, that wasn't already a superstar?
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Well Owen Coyle has done decent job in the few months he has been at Bolton and changed their style of football.
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The window hasn't began yet Tarzan so we dint know who will be coming in- maybe the young French lad is one of several signings so we cannot judge him on that till jan 31st.
As for the players clampy, houllier is trying to play a totally different style of passing football and the team o neill built played very differently to pass and move.the players he inherited are not good enough for the style houllier wants to play.
It's like allardyce taking over a team like arsenal and telling them from now on it's going to be all up and under football- teams are built to play a certain way and o neill and houllier are opposites in style!
Yes i realise GH want's to change our style, but we still should'nt be 1 point off relegation. Besides yesterday you suggested it was Gary Mac who might be the problem, today it's the players. Which is it?
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You have to give a new manager time, your right he is trying to change the way we play, we have to get behind him and the players otherwise we will impload.
Changing the manager now will only bring more unrest and uncertanty
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Arsene wenger made a career out of buying young foreign talent - let's hope GED has the same results in January- we cannot judge him on his deals yet as the window hasn't even began- I'm sure he will have some experience signings lined up as well as youth- it is not ideal dealing in January but we simply have to get players in even if it means paying over the odds.
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They are not, but like Gareth Bale and James Milner , i.e the kinds of players who would make an impact at such an early age our probably out of our price bracket. Maybe not, but can anyone think of an example of, say , an U21 player who had an immediate impact , especially when coming from abroad, that wasn't already a superstar?
I tend to agree, but I meant it was possible to bring in experienced players who could make an immediate impact as well as young potential stars. In fact I would be surprised if that did not happen.
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The window hasn't began yet Tarzan so we dint know who will be coming in- maybe the young French lad is one of several signings so we cannot judge him on that till jan 31st.
As for the players clampy, houllier is trying to play a totally different style of passing football and the team o neill built played very differently to pass and move.the players he inherited are not good enough for the style houllier wants to play.
It's like allardyce taking over a team like arsenal and telling them from now on it's going to be all up and under football- teams are built to play a certain way and o neill and houllier are opposites in style!
We had a style of play under MON, I've yet to see one under Houllier.
Which players can't play this "new brand" of football we are supposedly playing.
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We have a playing style known as the 'roll over and die' formation.
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There are many reasons we are where we are - Gary mac is one of them and I don't think he's the man for the job- we are where we are for a collection of reasons, players coaching staff and manager can all take part of the blame - it's not just one reason!
Defensively we are inept, the distribution is poor and it is quite clear who is and isn't suited to the passing game, midfield we have had injuries but have lacked flair and the strikers do not convert enough chances., add to that a keeper well past his prime and there are problems all over the field- it is a huge rebuilding job!
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Well Owen Coyle has done decent job in the few months he has been at Bolton and changed their style of football.
Owen Coyle has the respect of his players, GH hasn't, in fact he has alienated much of the squad. I don't like him. I don't trust him. I want him out now before he does anymore damage, lets face it at his age he was only going to be a short term manager anyway. Lerner has to hold up his hands admit it was a mistake & ship him back to France where he can do more damage with our blessing.
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We have a playing style known as the 'roll over and die' formation.
the new French players will fit right in then ;), i wonder what Didier Six is doing at the moment?
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You have to give a new manager time, your right he is trying to change the way we play, we have to get behind him and the players otherwise we will impload.
Changing the manager now will only bring more unrest and uncertanty
Au contraire we will have the certainty that GH will not be in charge & quell the unrest in the squad.
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There are many reasons we are where we are - Gary mac is one of them and I don't think he's the man for the job- we are where we are for a collection of reasons, players coaching staff and manager can all take part of the blame - it's not just one reason!
Yes but what about Randy and Sid? What proportion of the blame are you assigning to them and is it more or less than McAllister?
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I remember seeing a highlights package of a game we were involved in on the news about a year ago. The commentator described one of our goals as a 'typical Aston Villa goal'...and it was not meant in a derogatory way. I remember being kind of shocked when I heard it as usually that type of statement is reserved for Arsenal or the like.
Whatever you may say about the way we played under O'Neill, we had a definative style, one which was, to a point, effective and which distinguished us from other teams in the league. Now we are yet another rag-taggle bunch of kids and has-beens trying to play a brand of football which is unfortunately beyond us.
Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
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The window hasn't began yet Tarzan so we dint know who will be coming in- maybe the young French lad is one of several signings so we cannot judge him on that till jan 31st.
As for the players clampy, houllier is trying to play a totally different style of passing football and the team o neill built played very differently to pass and move.the players he inherited are not good enough for the style houllier wants to play.
It's like allardyce taking over a team like arsenal and telling them from now on it's going to be all up and under football- teams are built to play a certain way and o neill and houllier are opposites in style!
We had a style of play under MON, I've yet to see one under Houllier.
Which players can't play this "new brand" of football we are supposedly playing.
Quite. You'd think GH had taken over at Hereford, not Aston Villa.
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
lets hope they do now before its to late
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Owen coyle has impressed me immensely in his style of play and his man management looks very good- if and when we are in the Market for a new manager I'd hope that owen coyle figures highly on the list.
Graham alexanders parents live next door to me and graham was down last week- he said coyle was the best manager he has known in his career by a mile and the players would run through a brick wall for him- definately one for the future!
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We can point the finger at many things- randy took far too long in appointing someone-houllier appointed Gary mac - maybe trying to change things too quickly- the apparent lack of respect of some players- there are many reasons we are in this mess and many people who take some responsibility.
If randy has decided to back houllier then we must get behind the team and see where he takes us - relegation would be a disaster! I'm sure we would all do things differently but we are where we are , and we need to get out of this mess.
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I would rather have Gerard from Peep show in charge. the guy is a joke and as for McAllister, we did Middlesborough a favor taking him off there hands, he may hav been one of GED's (another terrible villa nickname) best signing at Liverpool but he is Clueless. He was rubbish managerial/coach wise at Coventry, Leeds and 'Boro. Hope we save ourselves some heartache and cash a bomb them both out now. Oh And 'GED', when things are going tits up (as they have done in 80% of ur games) dont just sit there with your bottom lip stuck out, shrugging. We keep hearing ur a master tactician but MON showed more nouse in that area and at best he was average in that area.
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If Owen Coyle would walk out on Bolton so soon after walking out on Burnley to join them, then I think it would raise serious questions about his character!
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The window hasn't began yet Tarzan so we dint know who will be coming in- maybe the young French lad is one of several signings so we cannot judge him on that till jan 31st.
As for the players clampy, houllier is trying to play a totally different style of passing football and the team o neill built played very differently to pass and move.the players he inherited are not good enough for the style houllier wants to play.
It's like allardyce taking over a team like arsenal and telling them from now on it's going to be all up and under football- teams are built to play a certain way and o neill and houllier are opposites in style!
We had a style of play under MON, I've yet to see one under Houllier.
Which players can't play this "new brand" of football we are supposedly playing.
There is quite an obvious change in style of play. We've gone from conceding possession and hitting teams on the break, under MON, to possession football and trying to break teams down under GH.
In theory they are professional footballers and should be able to adapt to any style of play required, given time. In reality, it doesn't look that easy for them!
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
Include me out please.
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Yes, there seems to be an awful lot of assumption that 'everyone' shares the same opinion these days.
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No to sacking him, we'd be back to square one.
The fact is that he's almost certainly wrapped up a couple of deals for players, getting a new manager in would mean no signings in January.
We're going to have to try and tough it out.
That said, he's been very poor in every aspect of the job to date.
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
Include me out please.
And me please.
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Gerard need to stamp his authority and it take time. Maybe we will see some changes over next 5 weeks. I do think he need to bring in Martin Laursen to help with defensive coaching and provide a tough Viking spirit. As Gordon, Gerard and Gary seem to be too nice.
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The truth is that GH probably didn't realise how hard the job is, i can't see him lasting much longer i think he will fall on his own sword,you got to ask does he really need this
unless L'Pool come knocking then we will see him sprint there....Usain Bolt style
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I presume Laursen is actually qualified as a coach and working or looking for work then? Because lots of people seem to think he's the answer to our prayers.
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We should get Laursen in, and be ready to promote him when the time it is time for Gerald to move upstairs
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There is quite an obvious change in style of play. We've gone from conceding possession and hitting teams on the break, under MON, to possession football and trying to break teams down under GH.
In theory they are professional footballers and should be able to adapt to any style of play required, given time. In reality, it doesn't look that easy for them!
So are we keeping the ball more under Houllier ?
When we played well against Man U it was as a result of using Albrighton and Downing to great affect on the wings, which are our strengths I would say.
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A team mirrors there manager...who would you rather have in the trenches with you?a placid nice g.h.?or a tough old jock in mcleish..with a never give up attitude installed in the current squad.....the thing is with villa if you go a goal behind i cant see you gettin one back......i know MON bought some junk but he had a sprit about him which mirrored your team....
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We should get Laursen in, and be ready to promote him when the time it is time for Gerald to move upstairs
Wonderful idea. Is he coaching? Got some coaching experience? Done his badges? Available for work? Does he want to?
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There is quite an obvious change in style of play. We've gone from conceding possession and hitting teams on the break, under MON, to possession football and trying to break teams down under GH.
In theory they are professional footballers and should be able to adapt to any style of play required, given time. In reality, it doesn't look that easy for them!
So are we keeping the ball more under Houllier ?
When we played well against Man U it was as a result of using Albrighton and Downing to great affect on the wings, which are our strengths I would say.
Yes, we are keeping the ball more. Unfortunately we just don't go anywhere with it.
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The Board won't sack him. They have backed him in his staff appointments and scouting appointments so it makes no sense. Maybe the fact GH has tried to stamp his authority on the team has caused some of the issues and rubbed a few of the more 'senior' players up the wrong way like Dunne and Ireland? But, let's be honest do we want unprofessional tossers like this at our club? One of my criticisms of GH is that he has approached the job with a sledgehammer as opposed to changing things gradually. Unfotunately the O'Neill men are not adaptable as has been illustrated by their performances. GH deserves a transfer window (and I wish it was the Summer and not the Desparate Dan saloon that the January window has become). We need to get behind them as fans and after Sunday where none of us expect much that means Wednesday night is the start of the season for us. A 2 or 3 win run will get us top 10....
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A team mirrors there manager...who would you rather have in the trenches with you?a placid nice g.h.?or a tough old jock in mcleish..with a never give up attitude installed in the current squad.....the thing is with villa if you go a goal behind i cant see you gettin one back......i know MON bought some junk but he had a sprit about him which mirrored your team....
I've been thinking something similar (don't you hate having to agree with a Bluenose!) but we haven't really showed any proper backbone since we got hammered 7-0 by Chelsea last season. That may well have broken the spirit of this group of players and perhaps nobody could fix things without wholesale changes. Clearly MON knew that he would not be able to bring in enough new faces to refresh the attitude and quit before he was made to look worse. That one result killed off an awful lot of self belief, and while it was largely down to MON's tactical ineptitude, it would have been the worst defeat suffered by most of our team and in my view they have never really recovered from it. Somebody of Houllier's style would never stand a chance in conditions like that, and while it's easy to make the observation now, the long term decline in the character of the players is becoming more evident by the game.
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Aston Villa striker Gabriel Agbonlahor ignores Gerard Houllier's fitness advice
Gabby Agbonlahor has become the latest Aston Villa player to question Gerard Houllier’s wisdom.
Sandy Macaskill
By Sandy Macaskill 2:33PM GMT 30 Dec 2010
The striker – who signed a five-year contract last month – suggested that he is not interested in taking his manager’s advice to lose bulk in a bid to get his season up and running.
You have to feel for the 24 year-old, who probably feels like to be a Hollywood starlet so often has his size been analysed in recent seasons.
But it must also be confusing, as Houllier’s wisdom contradicts the advice given to him by Martin O’Neill, who encouraged him to add bulk so that he could hold off defenders. Agbonlahor was rewarded with 16 goals – his best season for the club.
Houllier was adamant at the beginning of the month when he told Agbonlahor to slim down. “The fact is I think he's too stocky,” Houllier said. “I have told him to lay off the weights. Sometimes the players do too much. The Gabby I saw when I was watching TV in France was different to what I see here. He was thinner, more wiry and, wow, quick."
Agbonlahor, though, is not convinced. He said: “I can see where the manager is coming from, of course, but I think I was the same last season and that was my best season at Villa. I think maybe if I trimmed down and became how I was when I first broke into the team then I might lose an element to my game.
The Telegraph - Clicky (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8231876/Aston-Villa-striker-Gabriel-Agbonlahor-ignores-Gerard-Houlliers-fitness-advice.html)
Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?
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Since Gabby has 'bulked up' he's been better at the 'Heskey' stuff in his game. His finishing is now like our Darius Vassells was.
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Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?
If Geddy stays Gabby goes I fear.
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Most team play a deep defensive line against us which means they nuetralise the pace we have, one positive to hoof ball is that teams come on to you because they get posession which used to lead to us hitting on the break, now when teams come on to us they score.
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Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?
If Geddy stays Gabby goes I fear.
Is this the Gabby who signed a new contract six weeks ago, and said he wanted to stay at Villa for life?
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Gabby isn't going anywhere.
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
Include me out please.
And me please.
Include me in. The man is an old gallic DOL
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
Include me out please.
And me please.
Include me in. The man is an old gallic DOL
It puzzles me that everyone could know that one of the most knowledgeable football men in Europe, who won five trophies as Liverpool manager and two chamipionships as coach of Lyon was a terrible, terrible appointment.
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Brian Green's excellent post has really given me a lot to think about.
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Brian Green's excellent post has really given me a lot to think about.
where?
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Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?
If Geddy stays Gabby goes I fear.
Is this the Gabby who signed a new contract six weeks ago, and said he wanted to stay at Villa for life?
He loves the club & the city, GH somewhat less so. I don't think he's ready to put in a transfer request or likely to. I fear GH will ship him out a la Paul Ince.
He's a mean spirited self serving grudge holder who will remove any perceived opposition.
Ashley, Carew, Dunne, & Gabby are the ones definately on his shitlist at the moment & will go eventually.
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?
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When I seen the appointment of GH I thought we'd see the start of the club taking the course of the French National team.
So far he has managed to get some of the team to be a bunch of whingers blaming the coaching and the management, he's managed to alienate some of the players and he's now also managed to get the team to surrender at the first attack. Next up a few hand ball assisted goals.
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
You are right Legion, it is good food for thought.
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Houllier was a terrible, terrible appointment. We all knew it, most of the pundits knew, but the board did not.
Include me out please.
And me please.
Include me in. The man is an old gallic DOL
It puzzles me that everyone could know that one of the most knowledgeable football men in Europe, who won five trophies as Liverpool manager and two chamipionships as coach of Lyon was a terrible, terrible appointment.
Jo Venglos, SGT PtII. Deja Vu anyone?
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houllier has come in and tried to play a different style of football,
he's also got the team training harder and more often as he has said we arnt fit enough,
this has been one of the reasons that some senoir players have fallen out with him !!
and some people take the side of the players ?
get out of the club you lazy twats, if you cant try a bit harder in bad times they might as well piss off whoever they are
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
The honest answer to most of those is "I don't know, I don't spend enough time at Bodymoor Heath to possibly know" unless you have much greater inside knowledge than I'm assuming you have.
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The question that Brian Greens post raises.
Is GH impact on the team reversable even with mney available in January.
I have sat on the fence regarding sacking him before the end of the season but I do find the absence of any comments in support of GH from the players concerning. In fact has there been any comment from anyone at the club supporting the Manager?
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i believe that houllier wants to play expansive football but hasnt the personnel there to do it, i also believe we have far too much to go down but it aint gonna be easy! Get rid of the wankers and we will see something different grow next term!
The club aint just gonna fuck this guy off!
He is there for the duration and you better get used to it! I think it willl be worth the wait.
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?
Since we got 20 points from 19 games
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no one has gone down with 40 from 38 for years!
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no one has gone down with 40 from 38 for years!
your not doing anything to support the argument of getting rid of the Mananger and start playing hoof ball to save our souls with those sort of fact are you mate
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no one has gone down with 40 from 38 for years!
your not doing anything to support the argument of getting rid of the Mananger and start playing hoof ball to save our souls with those sort of fact are you mate
my worst nightmare is big sam coming in and saving the club!, what from i dont know??
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?
Since we got 20 points from 19 games
so we're going to blame the 6-0 at Newcastle and elimination from Europe on him also? How about that we didn't actually buy anyone in the summer? How about that one of our "leaders" Richard Dunne has been completely out of shape since the summer, and has made no effort to improve that? How about that Stephen Ireland, a player most of thought could really help us, doesn't give a bollocks about the club? How about that the previous manager decided to pull the shoot just as the season was about to start. Is that down to Houllier also? Are the injuries his fault? How about conceding late goals at Stoke and Fulham. Are they not the responsibility of the players, or is that his fault too? Those 4 points as a starter without considering other games we've conceded late leads put us comfortably in mid-table.
I concede readily that I thought we'd have a few more points and that he's made mistakes. But it's important to consider all other factors as opposed to simply dragging out one stat to support your position in an argument.
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The question that Brian Greens post raises.
Is GH impact on the team reversable even with mney available in January.
I have sat on the fence regarding sacking him before the end of the season but I do find the absence of any comments in support of GH from the players concerning. In fact has there been any comment from anyone at the club supporting the Manager?
I think it would be exceptionally weird is the players did come out and make comments in support of the manager. Paul Faulkner came out three weeks ago and said "nothing to see here" or words to that effect. Given the club's usual reticence and the General's newly imposed silence, I reckon that's all we're going to hear from anyone for a while...
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no one has gone down with 40 from 38 for years!
your not doing anything to support the argument of getting rid of the Mananger and start playing hoof ball to save our souls with those sort of fact are you mate
my worst nightmare is big sam coming in and saving the club!, what from i dont know??
same.
i wouldnt want relegation, but i could handle it, have done before, and whats more i'd back our youngsters to come straight back up
however if big Sam took over it would be the single worst day of my Villa supporting life without a doubt,
even if he kept us up, having to put up with that unadulterated shithouse anti football would be terible
if Houllier's time is up after 3 months then i just hope we get someone with at least a few footballing principles
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Will we have to also place Gabby in the troublemaking camp now?
If Geddy stays Gabby goes I fear.
Is this the Gabby who signed a new contract six weeks ago, and said he wanted to stay at Villa for life?
Also that same story has been reported elsewhere, without the negative slant, saying that Gabby and Houllier had come to an agreement about his best playing weight. Just the press trying to stir up a story from nothing.
http://msnsport.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_6623280,00.html (http://msnsport.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11677_6623280,00.html)
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?
Since we got 20 points from 19 games
so we're going to blame the 6-0 at Newcastle and elimination from Europe on him also? How about that we didn't actually buy anyone in the summer? How about that one of our "leaders" Richard Dunne has been completely out of shape since the summer, and has made no effort to improve that? How about that Stephen Ireland, a player most of thought could really help us, doesn't give a bollocks about the club? How about that the previous manager decided to pull the shoot just as the season was about to start. Is that down to Houllier also? Are the injuries his fault? How about conceding late goals at Stoke and Fulham. Are they not the responsibility of the players, or is that his fault too? Those 4 points as a starter without considering other games we've conceded late leads put us comfortably in mid-table.
I concede readily that I thought we'd have a few more points and that he's made mistakes. But it's important to consider all other factors as opposed to simply dragging out one stat to support your position in an argument.
-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.
In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.
Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season
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There are only a handful of points between 8 th and 20th- some people are talking as though we are adrift at the bottom- we are getting injuries cleared up and will have new signings next week , things can improve and we are only 2 points off Newcastle and Liverpool- we have every chance of finishing in the top 10 still and I believe our worst days are behind us.
I look forward to seeing the new players coming in and some of o neills trash being shown the door! I would Guess tHat everton and Liverpool fans are feeling just as pissed off at things and they haven't had anything like the problems we have had with injuries or being managerless till sept!
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In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant.
They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure. None of their teams are performing as well as last season.
They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH .
None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .
None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.
None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.
None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.
Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.
Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality. That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.
Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.
No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.
So why the hell should GH be sacked?
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
You are right Legion, it is good food for thought.
I'd like to provide some evidence. I will freely admit I would have gladly burnt Gerard Houllier on a stake at about 5pm on Tuesday evening, however those were the feelings of a non rational man who was angry and upset at the supposed performance I had just witnessed.
Our football this season has veered between sublime and utterly ridiculous. The sublime moments have seen things produced unseen since the days of BFR, controlled passing played at pace but unfortunately unable to be sustained for 90 minutes. Those 30 minutes after half time against Man United were spell binding, I'd include the performance against Fulham and away at Wolves as good solid outings where we got what we deserved in one case and sloppily conceded in the last minute in the other. The performance away at Spurs was fully deserving of a point but again sloppy defending and attacking cost us. We somehow managed to lose at Sunderland and Stoke, again that sloppy defending malarkey. Several performances recently have been woeful but I recall several of those under O'Neill as well. I can see evidence of the changes he is trying to instil, there was period in the game against Stoke when we ripped them a new one but unfortunately yet again didn't have striker who could stick it in the net. I realise the above is all odds and sods and he hasn't yet really put together a consistent performance where I could say "yep thats where we're going" and that is frustrating but he's been here three months with a squad stricken by injuries (which he didn't complain about) and has had to turn to young professionals to fill the gaps a situation they've responded to with commendable if inconsistent vigour. Another thing I'd like to congratulate him on is the challenging of his players to start acting like professionals (Carew, Dunne, Ireland as the prime examples). There are too many players not willing to take accountability for their failings and their own part in this and I'd hold them equally as culpable as Houllier for the current predicament we find ourselves in.
Now maybe I'm more patient than the average bear but getting rid of him now would be a massive mistake and would lurch us into even deeper trouble IMO. For my money he has to be given the season anything else smacks of desperation and as Mazrim so wonderfully commented a while ago "fans shaking like a bunch of shitting puppies". I may be proved wrong and he'll cock the whole thing up and I'd be more than happy to come on here and say I got it wrong but changing our Manager twice in one season isn't, or shouldn't ever be, the Villa way.
I'd also like to know when it became the Managers responsibility to get the fans behind the team? I thought that was our job and in all honesty we're doing a piss poor job currently as we play the "victim" and point the finger everywhere else but at ourselves and take the piss out of our own players. I'm as guilty as the next fan at coming on here and moaning about this that and the other but did I play my part, did I raise the roof and get behind the team when they really needed it or did I just sit in my seat and start calling for the Managers head or moan ing at the players efforts. There's too many people at the Villa currently, board, manager, players AND fans pointing at someone else and saying its there fault when the responsibility lies with all of us. It disappoints me to see us ripping ourselves apart like this being for or against Houllier what matters is the team and giving them the lift they need.
I seem to recall in MON's first season we'd been on a long losing run and were 1-0 down to Everton at half time and as I recall it questions were being asked about what the hell he was doing but the crowd didn't start shouting for his head, they came together and lifted the team for a second half comeback and a deserved point. Its that mentality thats needed now, that feeling of whatever shit we have to put up with from the board, manager and players, we the fans played our part.
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In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant.
They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure. None of their teams are performing as well as last season.
They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH .
None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .
None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.
None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.
None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.
Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.
Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality. That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.
Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.
No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.
So why the hell should GH be sacked?
Very nicely put and a very salient point, some should contemplate seriously.#Gone are the days of knee jerk reactions, Ellis has gone, gone are the days, hopefully of over paid useless past it idiots who can't even get their weight right, resulting in a costly inadequate squad.
Now all we need is the blame culture to disappear until there is real cause, say after 2 seasons of expenditure and nothing to show for it.
Assuming of course we avoid relegation :)
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In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?" My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation. Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.
It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg. Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.
As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark. My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face. Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky. He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.
When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down, They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season. They look at the table and they read the numbers. Read them.
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I look forward to seeing the new players coming in and some of o neills trash being shown the door!
Which 'O'Neil trash' do you have in mind?
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This one:
In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
One question. Since when did 3 months become too much time?
Since we got 20 points from 19 games
so we're going to blame the 6-0 at Newcastle and elimination from Europe on him also? How about that we didn't actually buy anyone in the summer? How about that one of our "leaders" Richard Dunne has been completely out of shape since the summer, and has made no effort to improve that? How about that Stephen Ireland, a player most of thought could really help us, doesn't give a bollocks about the club? How about that the previous manager decided to pull the shoot just as the season was about to start. Is that down to Houllier also? Are the injuries his fault? How about conceding late goals at Stoke and Fulham. Are they not the responsibility of the players, or is that his fault too? Those 4 points as a starter without considering other games we've conceded late leads put us comfortably in mid-table.
I concede readily that I thought we'd have a few more points and that he's made mistakes. But it's important to consider all other factors as opposed to simply dragging out one stat to support your position in an argument.
-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.
In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.
Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season
i see it exactly opposite to you willie,
i think he will show faith in the young players he has and bring them on building a future Villa side around them hopefully with a few additions,
and then get rid of the overblown toss baskets that we have that dont give a flying f**k about the club,
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In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?" My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation. Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.
It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg. Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.
As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark. My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face. Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky. He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.
When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down, They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season. They look at the table and they read the numbers. Read them.
If you follow that logic, if there is any, then 10 managers in the bottom half will be sacked any time soon.
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No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.
So why the hell should GH be sacked?
1. I'm not in my right mind I am in a state of abject panic.
2. I'm a fan of Aston Villa FC & I'm calling for the sacking of it's manager, who else would?
3. His lack of tactical know-how,his lack of passion, his inability to change things around, by mostly his appallinging divisivness & man managment skills. The man is a grade A twat, his personality just alienates the people around him & all the while he just pouts & blames anyone but himself.
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I do not see friedal, warnock , luke young, dunne, reo- coker, sidwell, ash young, Carew or Ireland being here next season. Of those the only one I'd really miss is ash!
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I do not see friedal, warnock , luke young, dunne, reo- coker, sidwell, ash young, Carew or Ireland being here next season. Of those the only one I'd really miss is ash!
I would'nt argue with any of that, but i would'nt exactly call them trash either.
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In the summer 4 new managers were appointed to PL clubs, GH, Hughes, Hodgson and Grant.
They are each in the process of changing their respective teams to play in the style they want and all of them are under pressure. None of their teams are performing as well as last season.
They all had the chance to bring players in during the window, except for GH .
None of them have had serious injury problems, except for GH .
None of them lost their best player during the summer, except for GH.
None of them had to deal with a centre half who decided to eat all the pies during the summer, except for GH.
None wwere confronted by an idiot called Ireland, except for GH.
Most on this thread would have settled for either Hughes or Hodgson to replace MON.
Under the last manager our team had a winning mentality. That was knocked out of them before GH even got here.
Changing the way a team plays means bringing in new players and upsetting some of the current crop, hence I suspect the performances of all 4 teams.
No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.
So why the hell should GH be sacked?
Well said. Probably one of the only few sensible posts on this thread.
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In reply to the question "when is three months too much time?" My point is that three months is enough to assess the situation. Six months is too long because if a very major sea change does not occur at Villa Park in the next three months we will be relegated.
It is like the captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that there is at least another hundred yards between us and the iceberg. Besides the ship is unsinkable and isn't that the California and the Carpathia on the horizon they will rescue us.
As for what I am privy to at Bodymoor Heath there is an old saying that you don't have to go down a coal mine to know that it is dirty and dark. My opinion that we do not have time for the luxury of being fair to Houllier is based on the facts which stare you in the face. Goals for, goals against, matches won, matches lost, points won, position in the table, endless negative publicity, endless gaffes like Pires Arsenal love in, his own ecstasy at Anfield, the selction of Delph and Hogg over NRC and Petrov, the dressing room bust ups the confrontational approach to Dunne, Carew, Beye and Ireland, the public comments about loyal young players like Lichaj and telling Nathan he is too skinny to be a striker and Gabby he is too stocky. He is making it all up as he goes along and it shows.
When the last whistle of the season is blown the Premiership executives don't have a meeting to decide who goes down, They don't say give the Villa an extra two points because they have had a lot of injuries and another three because their manager flounced off five days before the start of the season. They look at the table and they read the numbers. Read them.
i agree mistakes have been made, especially the Anfield debacle
as for the selection policy. i personly would play Bannan every day of the week before NRC, as i believe he is already a better player than NRC will ever be,
he did play Petrov and NRC against City and a fat of good that did,
i would also take Houllier side against a few stroppy senoir players, once you give in to player power your finished, i cant believe you have taken there side
the question i would ask of Houllier is is his heart in it for the long haul, ie to rebuild the Villa team into a better footballing side, against a backdrop of fan discontent,
i would be looking into his eyes to see where he wants to be and what his ambitions are, as i cant do that i presume Randy will be making those judgement calls,
but if i wasnt 100% of his comitment to the club and cause i would then let him go, and bring someone else in
but if he convinced me i would back the manager and not the malcontent players, and give him funds in the window to sart the rebuild,
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-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.
In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.
Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season
you've given two stats and 7 of those goals were in two games that Houllier wasn't a part of.
And who is out there, that would either ditch his current employer on the eve of the transfer window, or is free that will galvanzie the club, know what it needs and bring in suitable talent to change our current position.
tick, tick, tick ... waits for Jol's name to be thrown out or the newest poster boy Coyle, but privately fears he'll say Allardyce
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
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Sacking GH would be a mistake.
The team are struggling for form, the squad is badly hit by injuries and those that are left have been very mediocre. We are right to be concerned how things are going but calling for Houlliers head is not the answer.
Take the following scenario....
Keep Houllier and let him move on some of the deadwood in January. With his scouting network abroad we may just see some decent talent arrive as he starts to mould O'neils squad into his own.
Sack Houllier, replace him with Big Sam/Jol or similar who will want to make an impression and rush out and buy mediocre players for the sake of trying to appease the fans and wanting to be seen as trying to change things but really just making things worse.
We need to get behind the team now. Aston Villa FC and us supporters will be here long after the show ponies have gone.
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I must admit I can see why houllier rotated his midfield with 2 games in 3 days but was surprised he played 2 yung lads v spurs and 2 experienced v citeh, would rather have seen delph and reo coker in one and petrov and hogg in the other to blend youth with experience.
The worry for me after Liverpool was houllier saying at 2-0 it was game over , a pity sir alex didn't think like that when were beating them
2-0!
The
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
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It is really ironic in a nasty way, that we get ourselves a billionaire owner after years of supposed stagnation as a club and then we are now having probably one of our most worrying seasons in the premier league era.
GH came out the other night and was asked if he realised how big the job was he was taking on, he said no way it is far bigger, with a gloomy and defeated expression.
Ladies and Gents we are in an absolute dog fight whether we want it or not, this premier league is closer than ever. So a big club could fall and that could very well be us.
I am concerned we do not have the senior players ready and willing to fight for survival, for whatever reason they have decided Houiller is not the manager they want. This is the same group of players who were supposedely popping champagne corks via text when MON left, and were clambering for Kevin Mac to get the job, and then went out and played against Newcastle in one of the most abject performance seen in a long time. 6-0 to a newly promoted Newcastle team is so far from being acceptable it hurts.
There is a poison at the club and it needs to change, MON saw the writing on the wall and decided to jump. We can talk all we want about the manager and the owner but ultimately this set of players needs to pull us out of the mess or be moved on in January if they are not up for the fight. They are taking us for absolute mugs and do not care one iota for the club or us as fans.
GH said in his TV interview after the Man City game when asked about the threat of relegation and the January window "We are in a relegation battle, we were before the game and we are now, I need to see that the players who are here now are ready for this battle, or if they are not!"
A telling comment if you ask me.
GH has created a lot of issues this is a given and he has to take a massive portion of the blame, but lets not kid ourselves to say this was a rose garden before he joined because it was not. The signs have been there for a number of months.
I do not believe the owner is going to sack the manager, he has proven time and again with Cleveland Browns that he sticks by his appointments, he is not flavour of the month with them because of it, so what choice do we have? We need to allow him to ship out the players who do not want to be here and then the owner needs to allow him to replace them, whether short term loans or long term deals we need players who want to play and fight for our premier league status.
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
because some of them are bone idle lazy fuckers, and Houllier knows it and they dont like it
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I must admit I can see why houllier rotated his midfield with 2 games in 3 days but was surprised he played 2 yung lads v spurs and 2 experienced v citeh, would rather have seen delph and reo coker in one and petrov and hogg in the other to blend youth with experience.
he had said in the press conference ahead of the Spurs game that NRC was close to being ready. I think it's why Delph might have started and then rested vs Man City. Either way, both players have had injury issues so neither are fully fit. Throw Petrov in that mix, and the need to not over play Bannan and Hogg it becomes a complicated juggling act to get balance, experience, energy and talent.
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No one in their right minds would suggest after so few games that Hodgson, Grant or Hughes should be sacked, except some of the fans of those clubs.
So why the hell should GH be sacked?
1. I'm not in my right mind I am in a state of abject panic.
2. I'm a fan of Aston Villa FC & I'm calling for the sacking of it's manager, who else would?
3. His lack of tactical know-how,his lack of passion, his inability to change things around, by mostly his appallinging divisivness & man managment skills. The man is a grade A twat, his personality just alienates the people around him & all the while he just pouts & blames anyone but himself.
1. Settle down now.
2. No one else in their right mind, unless he was in a panic.
3. He has far more varied tactical experience than the majority of the PL managers. He may not shout on the touchline like MON did, but who does? Shouting wasn't something he did at Liverpool but he had the respect of the players. I assume you do not like his confrontational approach to Carew, Dunne and Ireland, well I do and if it encourages them to go then that is good management. The personality we see publicly is not necessarily the personality seen by those around and closer to him. For the most recent performances he should not be blaming himself, but the players they have played like prats.
Finally, have a long cold drink.
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
because some of them are bone idle lazy fuckers, and Houllier knows it and they dont like it
yep, yet some on here have clearly taken their side. I'm sure if Houllier could rid himself of the cancers at the club this January it would be as important, if not more important than anyone he actually signs.
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I must admit I can see why houllier rotated his midfield with 2 games in 3 days but was surprised he played 2 yung lads v spurs and 2 experienced v citeh, would rather have seen delph and reo coker in one and petrov and hogg in the other to blend youth with experience.
I think most of us would have expected that. I was stunned when i saw Hogg and Delph lined up against Spurs. I hate to think who he's going to pick against Chelsea. It would'nt surprise me if he threw Clark back in.
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-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.
In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.
Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season
you've given two stats and 7 of those goals were in two games that Houllier wasn't a part of.
And who is out there, that would either ditch his current employer on the eve of the transfer window, or is free that will galvanzie the club, know what it needs and bring in suitable talent to change our current position.
tick, tick, tick ... waits for Jol's name to be thrown out or the newest poster boy Coyle, but privately fears he'll say Allardyce
Again how many stats do you want? Stats can be used anyway you want to prove or disprove a point of view the table doesn't lie, its the manner of our defeats, the dejectedness in the playing squad that worry me the most.
Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
I agree entirely, but if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, we need someone who's going to get 100% out of his players and i'm just not sure if GH is capable of it.
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When GH arrived at Liverpool he upset the grouyp referred to I think as the spice boys. A group of players who liked to party. He got rid of those he didn't want and thats what he is doing here. He is bound to upset a few who will lead with their chins or use their heads and either way go asap.
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Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
Shame Newcastle already snapped up Pardew.
I'm guessing you didn't actually mean 'anybody'?
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-14 Goal Difference worst in the premier, how many stats do you want?.
In my opinion GH was a bad appointment(from the looks of the poll I'm not in the minority by some margin). I was however prepared to give him time, I now fear to give him anymore will decimate the squad(a la Graham Turner) he will bring in foreign youngsters which will displace our own very good homegrown players. So when we get relegated at the end of the season we will have less money with a shitload of disgruntled foreigners we have to ship out when GH finally gets the bullet.
Get rid of NOW let the new guy spend whatever transfer kitty we have & hopefully we will be satified with sixth from bottom at the end of the season
you've given two stats and 7 of those goals were in two games that Houllier wasn't a part of.
And who is out there, that would either ditch his current employer on the eve of the transfer window, or is free that will galvanzie the club, know what it needs and bring in suitable talent to change our current position.
tick, tick, tick ... waits for Jol's name to be thrown out or the newest poster boy Coyle, but privately fears he'll say Allardyce
Again how many stats do you want? Stats can be used anyway you want to prove or disprove a point of view the table doesn't lie, its the manner of our defeats, the dejectedness in the playing squad that worry me the most.
Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Don't give me a non commital answer such as "Anyone but Houllier". Give me names of managers, either in jobs today, or free that will be able to walk in to Villa Park on December 30th, assess the squad, buy and sell players in 31 days, galvanzie the playing staff and coaching staff, and not want a long term committment by the board for his plans. Aside from rent-a-managers like Hiddink who isn't interested and even if he was would only want top jobs, there is nobody out there that I can think of. Can you?
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Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
Shame Newcastle already snapped up Pardew.
I'm guessing you didn't actually mean 'anybody'?
dont forget Big Sam, Strachan, Ferguson jrn and Phil Brown all available ASAP
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
I agree entirely, but if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, we need someone who's going to get 100% out of his players and i'm just not sure if GH is capable of it.
Exactly, I am convinced he has lost the dressing room, only the senior players have made their displeasure known & I am afraid he will throw the baby out with the bathwater in an attempt to exert his authority
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Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
Shame Newcastle already snapped up Pardew.
I'm guessing you didn't actually mean 'anybody'?
dont forget Big Sam, Strachan, Ferguson jrn and Phil Brown all available ASAP
how about that fat fuck Paul Jewell? Wasn't he the next big thing while at Wigan?
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
I agree entirely, but if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, we need someone who's going to get 100% out of his players and i'm just not sure if GH is capable of it.
Exactly, I am convinced he has lost the dressing room, only the senior players have made their displeasure known & I am afraid he will throw the baby out with the bathwater in an attempt to exert his authority
which "senior" players? If you're referring to Carew or Dunne then they don't represent the majority. I don't even consider Ireland as Villa player. I've not heard Downing, Petrov, Ash, Gabby or Heskey say anything bad about him. Have you?
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If he does go and I don't think he will be sacked, how about Martin Jol?
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If he does go and I don't think he will be sacked, how about Martin Jol?
How about any of the three managers who were doing better than Jol in the mediocre Dutch league when he left Ajax?
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Well quite. Any 'senior player' who leaves after failing to pull his weight, and briefs anonymously against his employers, better bring his earplugs if he ever comes back to VP.
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Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
Shame Newcastle already snapped up Pardew.
I'm guessing you didn't actually mean 'anybody'?
dont forget Big Sam, Strachan, Ferguson jrn and Phil Brown all available ASAP
I think at this moment in time with the fear of what Houllier will do to this club, I mean exactly that. I don't think the board would appoint anyone worse. Then again I didn't believe they would appoint Houllier in the first place.
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If he does go and I don't think he will be sacked, how about Martin Jol?
i'd be happy with him,
but he would still have many of the same problems to sort out that Houllier has, re senoir players, new playing style etc
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
I agree entirely, but if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, we need someone who's going to get 100% out of his players and i'm just not sure if GH is capable of it.
Exactly, I am convinced he has lost the dressing room, only the senior players have made their displeasure known & I am afraid he will throw the baby out with the bathwater in an attempt to exert his authority
which "senior" players? If you're referring to Carew or Dunne then they don't represent the majority. I don't even consider Ireland as Villa player. I've not heard Downing, Petrov, Ash, Gabby or Heskey say anything bad about him. Have you?
Yes
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If he does go and I don't think he will be sacked, how about Martin Jol?
But isn't it a little bit concerning that Martin Jol, in the space of something 4 years has managed 3 teams and is now out of a job? While he brings some credibility, he brings zero stability. In fact, if he was manager, I'd expect him to be gone as soon as the next "bigger" job came up somewhere across Europe.
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In the summer there was a major call for Jol, he came top in the wanted Poll, he is now available? clearly opinion has now changed.
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It's the motivational side of GH that worries me, or lack of it. Liverpool was a good case in point. He could'nt even motivate the players against a side without Gerrard and Torres and instead we found ourselves 2 goals down inside 10 mins.
I agree to a point, but why do professionals need motivation, especially at this level, at the start of a game. These aren't kids. These are grown men paid handsomely to do a job.
I agree entirely, but if we are dragged into a relegation scrap, we need someone who's going to get 100% out of his players and i'm just not sure if GH is capable of it.
Exactly, I am convinced he has lost the dressing room, only the senior players have made their displeasure known & I am afraid he will throw the baby out with the bathwater in an attempt to exert his authority
which "senior" players? If you're referring to Carew or Dunne then they don't represent the majority. I don't even consider Ireland as Villa player. I've not heard Downing, Petrov, Ash, Gabby or Heskey say anything bad about him. Have you?
Yes
Yes, what? That those players said bad things about him? Ok, so what did they say?
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Compared to players managers are relatively cheap. Just pick the one you want and make him and his club an offer they cant refuse. Bill Kenwright is always strapped for cash. Prise Moyes away from Everton.
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Compared to players managers are relatively cheap. Just pick the one you want and make him and his club an offer they cant refuse. Bill Kenwright is always strapped for cash. Prise Moyes away from Everton.
I wouldn't be against Moyes, but he'd never leave Everton mid-season. Also, if you want poor starts to a season, he's your man. I think Moyes has a lot to offer given the opportunity, but he's a complete non-starter mid-season.
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You have no chance of getting Moyes atm
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Southgate's on the market. He did a great job with Middlesbrough.
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Southgate's on the market. He did a great job with Middlesbrough.
If we need a new hero how about the Geordie Genius himself Shearer. Or maybe we can tempt Bobby Gould away from the horses. He won an FA Cup you know.
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I know! It must be Kevin Keegan. Or Kenny Dalglish.
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I know! It must be Kevin Keegan. Or Kenny Dalglish.
they would still drone on about liverpool though
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we should wait a few weeks. Surely Avram Grant will be free, or even Roy Hodgson. If we're being really ambitious maybe we could get Paul Ince.
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My nightmare would be Gary Megson, with Allardyce, Bryan Robson and Peter Reid in reserve.
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moyes would see us as a sideways step at best. What could we offer him he's not got an Everton apart from a crapper side? If he had the budget MON had that would be a different matter
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when i hear about what the senior players think and i see the name stephen ireland there i cringe. What that hateful overpaid ugly pixie prick has to do with any opinion of our club i dont know!!
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My nightmare would be Gary Megson, with Allardyce, Bryan Robson and Peter Reid in reserve.
brilliant Steve. I can't believe we hadn't thought of Reid, Robson or Megson!!
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How about Kevin Blackwell?
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moyes would see us as a sideways step at best. What could we offer him he's not got an Everton apart from a crapper side? If he had the budget MON had that would be a different matter
I agree to a point greg. I don't think our squad is that different to Everton's though. I think we would be able to offer him more in terms of finances, but like I said he would never leave Everton like MON left us.
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Compared to players managers are relatively cheap. Just pick the one you want and make him and his club an offer they cant refuse. Bill Kenwright is always strapped for cash. Prise Moyes away from Everton.
if you could guarantee that it would work Brian then fair enough,
but the problem is you sack Houllier, then approach Moyes and he says No, then you approach another couple of in favour managers they also say No,
then with the transfer window slipping away your left with all the piss take names mentioned in the posts above
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How about Kevin Blackwell?
If only Mike Newell was done slagging off women he could manage us on the side.
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My nightmare would be Gary Megson, with Allardyce, Bryan Robson and Peter Reid in reserve.
brilliant Steve. I can't believe we hadn't thought of Reid, Robson or Megson!!
Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
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What's Robson doing now? He seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth!
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What's Robson doing now? He seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth!
About to be sacked as manager of Thailand.
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My nightmare would be Gary Megson, with Allardyce, Bryan Robson and Peter Reid in reserve.
brilliant Steve. I can't believe we hadn't thought of Reid, Robson or Megson!!
Who do I want? Anyone but Houllier! Please God his time is at an end & we will have a new man in by the Sunderland game.
Smashing. I think Dowie's available. Curbishley and Megson are probably at a loose end as well. We could probably tempt Gregory back from Israel as well.
sorry Dave re: Megson. But Robson and Reid are great shouts
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If he did go, maradona said he'd love to come to England.
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What's Robson doing now? He seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth!
About to be sacked as manager of Thailand.
perfect timing then
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With all the talk about Moyes, are Everton not 2 points ahead of our worst season in ages despite having a fully fit squad to choose from and seemingly no internal problems at all?
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What's Peter Withe up to nowadays?
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Bob Bradley. I know he signed a contract with US Soccer, but he's exactly the kind of man-manager we need ATM...
*hides*
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Ray Graydon, anyone?
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Psycho Evans ?
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Ray Graydon, anyone?
I'll raise your Ray Graydon, and offer Glenn Hoddle. How about some sexy football from Ruud Gullit?
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Sir Bobby Robson with Most Haunted's Derek Acorah as Director of Football/Ouiji board operator
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Realistically, I think we need to give Houllier to the end of feb then re-assess where we are based on results and league position and games remaining.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 1 pt
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Ci££eh (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 1 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts
I predict a further 9 points during Jan/Feb giving us 29 pts with 10 games to go, so in theory on our way to safety so Houllier keeps his job and gets a summer to fully begin the re-build
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How about a punt on Mr Beckham
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Compared to players managers are relatively cheap. Just pick the one you want and make him and his club an offer they cant refuse. Bill Kenwright is always strapped for cash. Prise Moyes away from Everton.
What if David Moyes isn't prepared to shit on Bill Kenwright?
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Realistically, I think we need to give Houllier to the end of feb then re-assess where we are based on results and league position and games remaining.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 1 pt
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Ci££eh (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 1 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts
I predict a further 9 points during Jan/Feb giving us 29 pts with 10 games to go, so in theory on our way to safety so Houllier keeps his job and gets a summer to fully begin the re-build
I think we will get about 11 points from that bunch of games, giving us 31 ish with 10 to play. We will stay up IMO, and probably finish 45-47 points ish. A win at the sty could give us the momentum to win 3 or 4 of those though and be well out of trouble. Home games are vital, and thankfully we have a few that are ones we can win. Get to the end of then and only have 6-7 points then I will be much more concerned I admit.
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Realistically, I think we need to give Houllier to the end of feb then re-assess where we are based on results and league position and games remaining.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 1 pt
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Ci££eh (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 1 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts
I predict a further 9 points during Jan/Feb giving us 29 pts with 10 games to go, so in theory on our way to safety so Houllier keeps his job and gets a summer to fully begin the re-build
I think we will get about 11 points from that bunch of games, giving us 31 ish with 10 to play. We will stay up IMO, and probably finish 45-47 points ish. A win at the sty could give us the momentum to win 3 or 4 of those though and be well out of trouble. Home games are vital, and thankfully we have a few that are ones we can win. Get to the end of then and only have 6-7 points then I will be much more concerned I admit.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 3 pts
16/01 SHA (a) 1 pt
22/01 Man City (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 3 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 1 pt
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts
15 points.
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That's 15 pts - optimistic ?
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That's 15 pts - optimistic ?
Sorry.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 0 pts
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Man City (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 0 pts
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 0 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 0 pts
26/02 Blackburn (h) 0 pts
0 points.
Relegated by March. I think that's the prevailing point of view. Doomed etc etc.
The fact is, if we can't beat Blackburn or Fulham at home, for example, we don't deserve to be in this league.
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i reckon we'll get at least 10. only downside is its going to be a high points total for relegated teams this season. mebbe even 44-45
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Agree, 40 pts may not be enough this year
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I'll take one game at a time thank you very much.
Chelsea (a) Nil pois.
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Next Prem Manager to go - latest odds Billy Hills
Woy 5/4
Grant 5/2
Houllier 9/2
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
Very well put, Brian. We are probably about the same age and been through the same highs and lows.
Your right about the one thing in common before each relegation in that things were not recognised and acted on early enough. I differ from you though in the analysis. From my memory, it was always the manager not recognising that the players were not up to it and failing to make the change. Like now, there were also player cliques.
Houllier has, I believe, seen that certain players are not good enough to take us forward from last season and others had peaked and are on the way down.
MON built a squad that he pushed to the limit the season before last and they hit the wall. He saw the problem and brought in new players in defence but the same thing happened again, they reached the limit which was not quite good enough. What he failed to do though was to buy a replacement for Carew and Petrov as they had both reached their peak. Also, in all his time he could not sort out both fullback positions.
We relied last season very much on Collins/Dunne and Milner. Take away the consistency of the Collins/Dunne combination, take Milner out of the equation and with Carew and Petrov both going backwards (the former dramatically) and you can see the big hole forming down the middle of the team. Add to this, injuries to Gabby and others and the team has disintegrated. When you look more closely, you can see why.
I do not believe any of what I have said above is down to Houllier. He has had to react to it and I tend to agree that he has not handled it too well. He has tried to use the young players sparingly by switching them around so as not to destroy their confidence and to try and come up with the right combination.
I am concerned about things that he is reported to have said, although I have not heard many of the things on TV or radio. There are many false rumours being put about, some by our own supporters (how any Villa supporter can take satisfaction from spreading a false rumour that will distress other supporters is beyond me). GH has upset some players but I do not think it is to the extent that he has 'lost the dressing room'.
I think that GH has found it harder than he expected because like many people he probably thought the players were of a higher calibre and stronger character. I think it is the wrong time to change the manager because a new manager will not have time to assess the squad and bring in new players. I trust GH to bring in good players that will be of value to the club in the future, whether he is manager or not. If, come the middle of February, things have not improved and we are still sliding, then would be the time to change. Likewise, if GH stays and we only just limp over the line at the end of the season, that may be the time to change.
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Has somebody said "Rooney" or "Lescott"? If so I'll delete this when I catch up reading the thread.
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Has somebody said "Rooney" or "Lescott"? If so I'll delete this when I catch up reading the thread.
I'd edit it and bring it back on January 10th, but then add Pienaar to it as well.
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
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How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Has somebody said "Rooney" or "Lescott"? If so I'll delete this when I catch up reading the thread.
How come the likes of Everton (Cahill) manage to hang onto their world class players yet we can't
it's very frustrating
Like they held onto Wayne Rooney, you mean?
And Lescott (who isn't world class in the sense that none of the players we've sold recently have been either, but they wanted to keep him)?
*blows imaginary smoke from end of pretend gun finger*
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
They have lost as many important players to bigger* clubs as we have over the last few years.
You're talking nonsense.
*Edit - richer
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Realistically, I think we need to give Houllier to the end of feb then re-assess where we are based on results and league position and games remaining.
2/01 Chelsea (a) 0 pts
5/01 S'land (h) 1 pt
16/01 SHA (a) 0 pts
22/01 Ci££eh (h) 0 pts
25/01 Wigan (a) 1 pt
1/02 ManUre (a) 0 pts
5/02 Fulham (h) 3 pts
12/02 Blackpool (a) 1 pt
26/02 Blackburn (h) 3 pts
I predict a further 9 points during Jan/Feb giving us 29 pts with 10 games to go, so in theory on our way to safety so Houllier keeps his job and gets a summer to fully begin the re-build
I agree with this - the worrying thing is we'd only have about 22 points in Feb which would probably mean rock bottom and a huge ask to get any confidence or form back.
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
-
How many players have we lost in the last five years? I know it's Talk Your Club Down Week, but let's not re-write history as well.
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In my years of following Villa I have seen us relegated many times. Every relegation we suffered had one thing and one thing only in common. The correction of our faults was left too late. The incumbent manager was always given too much time and necessary action was left too late to be effective.
Those of you calling people like Glasses and me idiots because we see the writing on the wall blatantly refuse to answer the single simple straightforward question - what single piece of evidence have you seen since Gerard Houllier was appointed our manager which shows him capable of having a better second half of the season than the first? Has he showed one spark of effectiveness in team motivation? fitness? mental attitude? building team spirit? asserting psychological domination of our opponents? getting the crowd behind the team? team discipline? team tactics? match tactics? team selection? tapping up targeted players like we have to endure from others? instilling self belief into players? instilling a spirit of fighting for every ball right to the final whistle? making match turning substitutions? There is no evidence of any kind whatsoever that Gerard Houllier, even if he is given the money, can buy his way out of the pit he has dug for himself.
When you can produce some evidence that Houllier has the ability NOW not at Liverpool or in France when he was in his prime - NOW, to fight off relegation then you can call those of us who do not share your optimism idiots and compare us to Liverpool fans.
Very well put, Brian. We are probably about the same age and been through the same highs and lows.
Your right about the one thing in common before each relegation in that things were not recognised and acted on early enough. I differ from you though in the analysis. From my memory, it was always the manager not recognising that the players were not up to it and failing to make the change. Like now, there were also player cliques.
Houllier has, I believe, seen that certain players are not good enough to take us forward from last season and others had peaked and are on the way down.
MON built a squad that he pushed to the limit the season before last and they hit the wall. He saw the problem and brought in new players in defence but the same thing happened again, they reached the limit which was not quite good enough. What he failed to do though was to buy a replacement for Carew and Petrov as they had both reached their peak. Also, in all his time he could not sort out both fullback positions.
We relied last season very much on Collins/Dunne and Milner. Take away the consistency of the Collins/Dunne combination, take Milner out of the equation and with Carew and Petrov both going backwards (the former dramatically) and you can see the big hole forming down the middle of the team. Add to this, injuries to Gabby and others and the team has disintegrated. When you look more closely, you can see why.
I do not believe any of what I have said above is down to Houllier. He has had to react to it and I tend to agree that he has not handled it too well. He has tried to use the young players sparingly by switching them around so as not to destroy their confidence and to try and come up with the right combination.
I am concerned about things that he is reported to have said, although I have not heard many of the things on TV or radio. There are many false rumours being put about, some by our own supporters (how any Villa supporter can take satisfaction from spreading a false rumour that will distress other supporters is beyond me). GH has upset some players but I do not think it is to the extent that he has 'lost the dressing room'.
I think that GH has found it harder than he expected because like many people he probably thought the players were of a higher calibre and stronger character. I think it is the wrong time to change the manager because a new manager will not have time to assess the squad and bring in new players. I trust GH to bring in good players that will be of value to the club in the future, whether he is manager or not. If, come the middle of February, things have not improved and we are still sliding, then would be the time to change. Likewise, if GH stays and we only just limp over the line at the end of the season, that may be the time to change.
Good post there OMVF, i don't agree with all your points, but i agree with you on giving Houllier more time. Without dwelling on what has gone on up until now, and we all have our own opinions, the important thing is how will we cope for the rest of the season, the smart money is on trust the manager, i just hope he repays Randys and our faith in his ways.
Interesting times ahead
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
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Were Man Utd classed as a selling club when they sold Ronaldo?
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.
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If Young goes (and I don't want him to before I get aggro) we should use the money to get NZogbia. He's the bollards.
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And that's why Houllier has to be given 12 months.
To get rid of the dross, and bring in his own players. Which once again highlights the shitty situation we were left in by our previous manager when he walked out when he did.
Is this the same dross that finished 6th last season, 1 point ahead of Liverpool, 3 points behind Money City and 6 points off 4th place, and a Cup Final appearance?
Some people need to get out of their heads that the last manager left a load of crap behind, he did'nt. He overpaid for a few of them yes, but they were decent players a few months ago, what's changed?
We paid 9.5m for Davies, and he's currently on loan at Leicester City. We paid 5 for Sidwell, who has run his contract out, picked up 50k a week for 3 years and contributed the square root of fuck all.
to clutch at a few straws...
Sidwell's assist in the throw-in that led to Milner's goal was good....
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Ash will go, Baines will stay IMO
therein lieth the difference & the problem
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.
And did he ?
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If Young goes (and I don't want him to before I get aggro) we should use the money to get NZogbia. He's the bollards.
Good with his head (last night) as well!
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Jagielka was supposed to be going to Arsenal in the summer as well.
And did he ?
linked is one thing, but did Arsenal even make a bid? I think that might be an important component.
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Or maybe Everton killed it before the move gained any sort of momentum
We seem to just resign ourselves to losing our cream
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Or maybe Everton killed it before the move gained any sort of momentum
We seem to just resign ourselves to losing our cream
Usually prematurely!
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Or maybe Everton killed it before the move gained any sort of momentum
We seem to just resign ourselves to losing our cream
you're not making any sense. If Arsenal made an actual bid and it was rejected by Everton we'd all know about it. There's a massive difference between Arsenal looking for a CB, and the media "suggesting" they are after Jagielka and Everton blocking an Arsenal bid the player.
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Ash will go, Baines will stay IMO
therein lieth the difference & the problem
I'm not saying it definitely won't come to pass, but what you've offered there is an imaginary difference and problem.
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Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Jagielka. They manage to hold onto players who we'd lose
I can't even remember ever seeing anyone linked to Baines and Jagielka, good players though they are.
Baines was going to Bayern Munich for £9M last week.
Well, given that today we've seen Ashley Young used as evidence we're a selling club, I'm going to use Baines as evidence that Everton are, too.
Ash will go, Baines will stay IMO
therein lieth the difference & the problem
Christ almighty, you really are the most miserable poster on here. You make greg look like Seattle Villain.
Therein lies what difference or what problem? Something you've got a hypothesis on?
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I back Houllier. I think Agbonlahor's latest comments about "if I slim down I'll be physically bullied by defenders" (or words to that effect) show the problem: it's not MON's timing of departure which is his fundamental legacy, but his methods and ideas which have indoctrinated the players and left them reacting to the new methods of Houllier which, frankly, are methods which have been employed at all successful clubs across Europe since 1989 and which require a bit of work - work some of the players clearly don't want to put in. I'm not suggesting that Gabby doesn't want to put in the work (though others do suggest that), but it's indicative of an attitude of a continuing misplaced faith in MON-ness which is undermining GH's work at the club and, to be honest, these players can bugger off out of our club if they don't want to put in the work.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
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I back Houllier. I think Agbonlahor's latest comments about "if I slim down I'll be physically bullied by defenders" (or words to that effect) show the problem: it's not MON's timing of departure which is his fundamental legacy, but his methods and ideas which have indoctrinated the players and left them reacting to the new methods of Houllier which, frankly, are methods which have been employed at all successful clubs across Europe since 1989 and which require a bit of work - work some of the players clearly don't want to put in. I'm not suggesting that Gabby doesn't want to put in the work (though others do suggest that), but it's indicative of an attitude of a continuing misplaced faith in MON-ness which is undermining GH's work at the club and, to be honest, these players can bugger off out of our club if they don't want to put in the work.
Could not agree more. The biggest issue at our club is bad attitude, We need to move out those bad apples that do not give a shit and refocus those that should/do. This is Aston Villa for Christ sake, when did Carew get the idea that being away for 2 days means he is not fit! They (players) need to stop questioning and start doing.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
I can think of one muscle below the waist he's probably over-exercised, in all fairness.
Seriously though, it's about skill level and movement off the ball. The best teams play football like chess, individual players making selfless runs off the ball to make room for others and so on. This is not part of MON's philosophy, unlike the rest of the football world, which means that Gabby's development in the crucial years - 19-23 - didn't include this hugely important aspect of being a striker. Shame really.
I agree AJ, Carew is probably the worst of the lazyites. He was complaining in the MON days when there was no training, and all he had to do was turn up for games occasionally. Who does he think he is, honestly.
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i reckon we'll get at least 10. only downside is its going to be a high points total for relegated teams this season. mebbe even 44-45
So we get to March on 29 points from 28 games,and we potentially need 16 from the final 10 games for safety?
What does Randy Lerner think when he looks at the remaining fixtures and his eye is drawn to Arsenal away and Liverpool at home as the last 2 games?
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well thats the risk villadawg. Seriously i can see the logic of the "GH out" lot. It makes a lot of sense. I can't argue with a lot of it
BUT
a)the names put forward are either shit or unrealistic IMO
b) a new manager would mean ripping up the plans for this transfer window which is where Houllier came in
c) it just seems wrong after so short a period in the job
The bottom line is if you sack GH you'll have to get a better manager in who will get the best out of what we have now with probably no reinforcements. And that seems less logical to me than sticking with him (at the moment, ask me again in feb).
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
I was listening to the cricket the other day and Shane Warne was talking about Chris Tremlett when he was at Hampshire. He was saying that Tremlett was spending too much time in the gym working on his upper body strength. He advised him to reduce that work as it was putting additional strain on his lower body. Tremlett followed the advice and is now realising the potential that experts thought he had when he was younger.
Looking at Gabby, he certainly can hold off defenders better but I would say that his turning is not as quick as it was i.e. he has lost his agility. For years Gabby has had a body that was in balance (natural body build that had slowly developed in his youth) as he had not been doing sustained exercises to change it. He has been bulking up and this will have changed his centre of gravity slightly. I am not an expert but has this had an effect on how he plays.
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Ultimately whether we think houllier should stay or go it seems randy has decided to back him and as villa fans we must stick together and get right behind the team in these troubled times- houllier seems to have identified the bad eggs and will hopefully get them out of the club- the chants of fuck off houllier heard at man city will not do our club any favours if repeated.
We are like it or not in a relegation fight at the moment and need to stick together and help the club out of it- the time for recrimations will come in the summer if we are still in a mess , but remember we are also only a couple of wins off the top 8 ,So all is not lost.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
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I know he's been injured for a while, but are we still waiting for Gabbys first league goal of the season?
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Peter Crouch has no bulk of any kind on any part of his body yet he is one of the most effective goal poachers in the game. Heskey has more bulk in his ear lobes than Crouch has in his whole body but is never off the injury list. Crouch has muscles and sinews of whipcord Heskey has muscle and sinew of toffee crisp. If it keeps Gabby happy and settled let him do what he feels comfortable doing. A happy player is a better player than an unhappy one regardless of his muscle to body weight ratio.
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Putting a bit of bulk on is fine for players but too much can restrict how mobile and flexible they can be...especially if they do what most blokes do, just the tee shirt muscles. Given all the advice on hand at premier clubs, I am surprised that he has been allowed to bulk up too much, if indeed he has. He looks bulkier for sure but wouldn't say too much.
I would say that Beckham and Ronaldo have the ideal physiques for players these days.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
They both are naturally of big build though Chris. It is a fine line with an athelete and I think Gabby has gone over that a little.
I think MON's reason for telling Gabby to bulk up was the fact that he saw him as a central striker leading the line. I do not think Gabby has enough natural goal scoring ability or nous about movement to play that role as a lone striker.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
Gabby aint Rooney or Drogba though Chris. He's not even close to those two. Gabby's primary asset is his pace and if he doesn't have that he's a shadow of the player he can be. He's improved in many areas of his game over the years, but he doesn't have close to the natural ability of those two.
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Whether gabby gas bulked up or not is not the issue to me, my concern is that he needs to improve his finishing if he is to become a prolific goalscorer, In my view he has missed many one on one chances and is better on instinct- if he has time to think he often fails to score.
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Whether gabby gas bulked up or not is not the issue to me, my concern is that he needs to improve his finishing if he is to become a prolific goalscorer, In my view he has missed many one on one chances and is better on instinct- if he has time to think he often fails to score.
The above is very true and is Gabby's major downfall, which is why i'd like to see a bit more of Delfounseo than we already have.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
Gabby aint Rooney or Drogba though Chris. He's not even close to those two. Gabby's primary asset is his pace and if he doesn't have that he's a shadow of the player he can be. He's improved in many areas of his game over the years, but he doesn't have close to the natural ability of those two.
I think improving his upper body strength helped him be a better player last season. It's a long time since he's been able to rely just on his pace, teams are wise to him now and defend deep to counter it but he has carried on scoring goals. It's an asset but there's far more to his game.
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
Gabby aint Rooney or Drogba though Chris. He's not even close to those two. Gabby's primary asset is his pace and if he doesn't have that he's a shadow of the player he can be. He's improved in many areas of his game over the years, but he doesn't have close to the natural ability of those two.
I think improving his upper body strength helped him be a better player last season. It's a long time since he's been able to rely just on his pace, teams are wise to him now and defend deep to counter it but he has carried on scoring goals. It's an asset but there's far more to his game.
Must have missed his goals?
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
Gabby aint Rooney or Drogba though Chris. He's not even close to those two. Gabby's primary asset is his pace and if he doesn't have that he's a shadow of the player he can be. He's improved in many areas of his game over the years, but he doesn't have close to the natural ability of those two.
I think improving his upper body strength helped him be a better player last season. It's a long time since he's been able to rely just on his pace, teams are wise to him now and defend deep to counter it but he has carried on scoring goals. It's an asset but there's far more to his game.
Must have missed his goals?
You should pay better attention then as you missed 16 of them.
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This season?
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What Gabby hasnt worked out is that as a striker you need the muscle from the waist down, there is no need to bulk up the upper body unless he wants to play rugby
Tell that to Wayne Rooney and Didier Drogba.
Gabby aint Rooney or Drogba though Chris. He's not even close to those two. Gabby's primary asset is his pace and if he doesn't have that he's a shadow of the player he can be. He's improved in many areas of his game over the years, but he doesn't have close to the natural ability of those two.
I think improving his upper body strength helped him be a better player last season. It's a long time since he's been able to rely just on his pace, teams are wise to him now and defend deep to counter it but he has carried on scoring goals. It's an asset but there's far more to his game.
No doubt, but when does it get to be a hindrance to his game? I think that's what Houllier is concerned about. It's good that he's strong enough to hold off bigger players, and we've seen him put it to good use, but his biggest asset shouldn't be compromised because of it. That more than anything else frightens the life out of defences.
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This season?
I'm guessing you've missed the bit where he's been injured for most of it.
I have no idea what's going on around here, but every day someone else emerges with the sole intent of taking shots at the club, the manager or the players. Whatever happened to supporting your club, especially now when they need it the most?
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Gabby is right to add a bit of bulk. There were quite a few goals he got last year due to his pace AND power. Cut him a bit of slack for this season...he hasnt had a decent run of games yet.
Anyone else pick up on Houlliers comment about Omar, saying we have so few options up front??
Gabby, Heskey, Carew, Fonz and Young playing off the front man from time to time. Makes me wonder how many arre heading out the door.
Getting worried that Houllier is gutting out our squad only to be following them not long after.
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This season?
Read the post again. I said "I think improving his upper body strength helped him be a better player last season" as that was when it was first noticeable that he's put on a bit of muscle. He's been injured on and off for most of this season so we've not had much to judge him on.
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This season?
I'm guessing you've missed the bit where he's been injured for most of it.
I have no idea what's going on around here, but every day someone else emerges with the sole intent of taking shots at the club, the manager or the players. Whatever happened to supporting your club, especially now when they need it the most?
Don't get me wrong I'll be there on match days supporting the club. I've only become vociferous in calling for the managers head because I remember to other times I kept me gob shut & we ended up relegated.
This time I'm 100% convinced GH is a wrong 'un.
There isn't a great deal wrong with the squad, witness the first 80minutes against Man U.
They just don't want to play for GH it's not just a few "bad eggs" tho'.No doubt his former employees had put a bit of poison down before his arrival(this is speculation on my part), but after 3 months many are seeing GH for the man he is.
Whereas MON got the best out of his players GH just seems to bring out the worst.
GH will need to ship out 7-8 first team players & replace them with his own men in January which will undoubtedly mean relegation.
Wether the players he brings in will have the bollocks for scrapping in the Championship remains to be seen, IMO it will be a long haul back.
We have lost the spine of the team Milner thro' money/greed Dunne thro' unfitness, Gabby thro' injury, Carew cause he can't ever be arsed.
Get a new man in to resore confidence/respect in the management, we need a centre-back till Dunne sorts his head out or Cuellar proves man enough, a central midfielder (Scott Parker mayhap?) & striker who can put the ball in the net(I know we've been needing one of those for years) Robbie Keane this time round?
The discontent in the squad is purely down to dislike/lack of respect(personality clashes if you will) for the manager & I just can't see him changing that attitude, he hasn't the personality or the will to he'll just get rid of & I think that will be short-term disaster & long-term misery.
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Whether gabby gas bulked up or not is not the issue to me, my concern is that he needs to improve his finishing if he is to become a prolific goalscorer, In my view he has missed many one on one chances and is better on instinct- if he has time to think he often fails to score.
The above is very true and is Gabby's major downfall, which is why i'd like to see a bit more of Delfounseo than we already have.
GH told Gabby to slim down & at the same time told Fonz he's too skinny to be a striker.
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This season?
I'm guessing you've missed the bit where he's been injured for most of it.
I have no idea what's going on around here, but every day someone else emerges with the sole intent of taking shots at the club, the manager or the players. Whatever happened to supporting your club, especially now when they need it the most?
I and some others may come accross as Jonah's by speaking out that we think something is wrong.
Since RL took over it seems to have become a crime around here to speak ill of the club / manager / players
We are doing it not out of any anti Villa feelings but because we care about the club and want the best for it.
I believe that GH is not the right man, and that relegation is a distinct possibility!
We are sliding fast
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This season?
I'm guessing you've missed the bit where he's been injured for most of it.
I have no idea what's going on around here, but every day someone else emerges with the sole intent of taking shots at the club, the manager or the players. Whatever happened to supporting your club, especially now when they need it the most?
Yep..it's getting quite depressing. Ashley and Luke injured...therefore apparantly they don't want to play for GH. Take a stance and don't sign a player due to wages, injury, whatever the reason and we have missed out on the next Messi. No doubt the first player we do sign will be a masive gamble, unproven in the prem and we paid too much for him...
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Reading this some people are talking as though we are 10 points adrift and already down , we are only 2 points off the top 10 and have now the chance to bring in new signings, a few new faces and a couple of wins will soon turn it around- there are a dozen teams who are within a few points of each other and they should all be worried- some people sound as though they have given up all hope!
We were in a similar position when dol first arrived and we managed to put a run together and finish 6th- the table is tight and we can still finish strongly- I would hope the worst is behind us , but January will be huge for our club- the fofana deal seems dead but I'm sure there are others to come!
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Reading this some people are talking as though we are 10 points adrift and already down , we are only 2 points off the top 10 and have now the chance to bring in new signings, a few new faces and a couple of wins will soon turn it around- there are a dozen teams who are within a few points of each other and they should all be worried- some people sound as though they have given up all hope!
It's a motivational technique picked up at Anfield by GH. "abandon all hope ye who enter here" is the sign above the dressing room
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http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6626994,00.html
Most positive stuff ive heard from him since he arrived....but he does go on to have to mention Liverpool.
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http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6626994,00.html
Most positive stuff ive heard from him since he arrived....but he does go on to have to mention Liverpool.
so is he now saying Dunne and Ireland are part of his plans?
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It looks like it....good news in my opinion. They are 2 top players when on form. It also shows that he is willing to bury the hatchet and move on.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6626994,00.html
Most positive stuff ive heard from him since he arrived....but he does go on to have to mention Liverpool.
so is he now saying Dunne and Ireland are part of his plans?
i saw him interviewed on SSN he said "sooner rather than later" it would not surprise me to see Dunne stat against Chelsea
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well thats the risk villadawg. Seriously i can see the logic of the "GH out" lot. It makes a lot of sense. I can't argue with a lot of it
BUT
a)the names put forward are either shit or unrealistic IMO
b) a new manager would mean ripping up the plans for this transfer window which is where Houllier came in
c) it just seems wrong after so short a period in the job
The bottom line is if you sack GH you'll have to get a better manager in who will get the best out of what we have now with probably no reinforcements. And that seems less logical to me than sticking with him (at the moment, ask me again in feb).
Of all the arguments there C has the most merit as far as I can see.
And you're right, on the surface it does seem wrong after such a short period in the job.
But it is possible to do such a rank bad job in a relatively short period - be it GH's or any other- that your position becomes untenable.
The thought of being compared to Newcastle is less than ideal, and is largely why I advocated after the Liverpool match that -so long as we can get through this season and secure our Premiership status as a bare minimum- GH should remain in the job until at least then.
But with each passing game it looks as if he will struggle to deliver even that modest feat.
This is different to the Newcastle - Allardyce situation too. In so far as they got shot of him when they were in mid-table. Their football wasn't 'sexy' enough. We have concerns about stopping in the division. It's a huge difference.
Look at other big clubs who have been down at the wrong end of the table in recent years. Liverpool this season under Woy, Tottenham under Jol and then Ramos. It's unacceptable for those clubs to even entertain ideas of relegation, hence the manager gets it in the neck and will generally pay for that level of non performance with his job. For other clubs, those such as West Ham, Wigan, B-lose and co it's far from ideal, but they will have at least planned for it, factored it into the equation as a very realistic scenario. Ergo if they are down around the foot of the table the manager won't necessarily walk the plank.
I'd be a tad more concerned if most Villa fans did actually believe the level of decline we've seen under GH was acceptable. That would nearly put us on a par with those clubs just mentioned, and the expectations they hold.
Again, I do see the argument for giving GH as long as absolutely possible to turn it around. We could look impetuous, 'just like Newcastle' and our credibility would take a hit if we're seen to act too rashly.
But our credibility will take an even bigger hit if we go down, so ultimately it could well be a 'lesser of two evils' scenario we'll have to face.
The period from now until Jan 16th will be absolutely crucial in determining which route we take.
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Agree with you KG, January is critical, if the manager can not demonstrate that he has wherewithall for us at at least to survive then he has to go
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If he's regaining control of the dressing room, this can only be a positive for all concerned
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Houllier is ordered to bring back Villa outcasts Dunne and Ireland
By Joe Bernstein Last updated at 6:51 PM on 1st January 2011
Aston Villa manager Gerard Houllier will recall Richard Dunne for their vital clash at Chelsea after the intervention of owner Randy Lerner.
Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner instructed Houllier to make up with Dunne and other senior stars, including Stephen Ireland, after fearing that low morale would drag Villa into a relegation battle.
The Frenchman has won only three of 14 league games since replacing Martin O'Neill and stripped Dunne of the captaincy, axeing him from the side after the defender clashed with assistant manager Gary McAllister in training.
The hierarchy urged Houllier to sort out the problems following a miserable 4-0 defeat at Manchester City.
Dunne will be back at Stamford Bridge and there will also be a place in the squad for midfielder Ireland, who has handed in a transfer request and not featured since a 3-0 defeat at Liverpool a month ago.
Houllier will accommodate the two players and may even try Luke Young in an unfamiliar role at left-back.
Daily Mail - Clicky (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1343299/Aston-Villas-Gerard-Houllier-ordered-bring-Richard-Dunne-Stephen-Ireland.html#ixzz19p2DmhSl)
That's a particularly gruesome slant to put on things.
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It's also very likely bollocks.
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It's also very likely bollocks.
agreed, it's got to be.
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Almost certainly bollocks. Can anyone really see Randy telling him he's got to play them?
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No. What a lot of shit
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I'd love to know when Dunne became official club captain, every media outlet describes him as 'villa captain dunne', he was only emergency captain in place of Petrov and NRC ffs.
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Luke Young the unfamiliar left-back. This isn't even good muckraking.
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I'd love to know when Dunne became official club captain, every media outlet describes him as 'villa captain dunne', he was only emergency captain in place of Petrov and NRC ffs.
We have had lot of captains this season. Petrov, NRC, Dunne, Ash Young, Collins. So they can take their pick.
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Tomorrow we will get to see his tactical know-how. How will he adjust? Seige mentality? All out defence? "Go for it"?
Very interested to see what he does.
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Almost certainly bollocks. Can anyone really see Randy telling him he's got to play them?
Well we know he's not a fan of paying big wages to people who don't play, so there may have been an attempt at reconciliation, but ordering them to be included in the squad? I think not.
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Randy has spoken to GH since the Citeh game. Dunne has been encouraged to pull his finger out. Hey presto, Randy is dictating team affairs.
In other news, 2+2=5
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Luke Young the unfamiliar left-back. This isn't even good muckraking.
So what do you think is the motivation, Dave? Just poor lazy journalism, making up a story in the absence of anything else? Is it a whitch hunt or stuff being fed to him from someone with an axe to grind?
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It could be Dunne has reflected on the likely outcome for him. At best Wolves, Wigan, Blackburn and no where near as much money, or he sits out the season and perhaps more. It could be its Dunne trying to rebuild bridges.
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Luke Young the unfamiliar left-back. This isn't even good muckraking.
but if Luke is at left-back and Dunne is back in the team, where does Cuellar play?
Oh My God! Noooooooo......
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Luke Young the unfamiliar left-back. This isn't even good muckraking.
So what do you think is the motivation, Dave? Just poor lazy journalism, making up a story in the absence of anything else? Is it a whitch hunt or stuff being fed to him from someone with an axe to grind?
I really have no idea, other than there always has to be a Club in Crisis and Newcastle are doing better than expected. I do wonder if this story would have appeared had Liverpool lost.
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It could be Dunne has reflected on the likely outcome for him. At best Wolves, Wigan, Blackburn and no where near as much money, or he sits out the season and perhaps more. It could be its Dunne trying to rebuild bridges.
Or he could just stay at Villa earning £60k a week.
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It could be Dunne has reflected on the likely outcome for him. At best Wolves, Wigan, Blackburn and no where near as much money, or he sits out the season and perhaps more. It could be its Dunne trying to rebuild bridges.
Or he could just stay at Villa earning £60k a week.
Don'tcha love football?
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Even so, most footballers want to play.
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A fair assessment?
The Guardian - Fans' fractured faith..... - Clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/02/gerard-houllier-aston-villa)
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Where's this list of Carew's then?
I think out of the whole article that's the only thing I wasn't aware of.
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Where's this list of Carew's then?
I think out of the whole article that's the only thing I wasn't aware of.
I don't know if it is true but this is supposedly his list of "best managers" from a Norwegian newspaper.
1.Nils Arne Eggen
2.Capello
3.Benitez
4.O`Neill
5.del Bosque
6.Cuper
7.Houllier
Has he played for all of these?
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A fair assessment?
The Guardian - Fans' fractured faith..... - Clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/02/gerard-houllier-aston-villa)
A very fair, and accurate summing up in my view.
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Not too much to argue with although, personally, I'd give Ireland a smack in the mouth rather than an arm around the shoulder.
Interesting that the Dunne training ground spat is now being accepted as having happened, if not the scale of the row being confirmed.
Reconciliation is one thing, but the restoration of any of the "Bodymoor Three" to the team is a huge risk considering their performances so far this season. If they were excluded for footballing reasons is it on that basis that they are under consideration for recall? And does our dressing room need any further disruption from disgruntled players?
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Not too much to argue with although, personally, I'd give Ireland a smack in the mouth rather than an arm around the shoulder.
Interesting that the Dunne training ground spat is now being accepted as having happened, if not the scale of the row being confirmed.
Reconciliation is one thing, but the restoration of any of the "Bodymoor Three" to the team is a huge risk considering their performances so far this season. If they were excluded for footballing reasons is it on that basis that they are under consideration for recall? And does our dressing room need any further disruption from disgruntled players?
According to the Mail online, he has been ordered to reinstate them by Lerner and Faulkner.
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Can't believe that
They'd be undermining houllier in a very public way if that's true which to me would say they've lost confidence in him and he's facing the chop imminently
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Not too much to argue with although, personally, I'd give Ireland a smack in the mouth rather than an arm around the shoulder.
Interesting that the Dunne training ground spat is now being accepted as having happened, if not the scale of the row being confirmed.
Reconciliation is one thing, but the restoration of any of the "Bodymoor Three" to the team is a huge risk considering their performances so far this season. If they were excluded for footballing reasons is it on that basis that they are under consideration for recall? And does our dressing room need any further disruption from disgruntled players?
According to the Mail online, he has been ordered to reinstate them by Lerner and Faulkner.
Not sure how much truth there is in this, but I'm not one who will disregard tabloid rumours (football ones anyway). When many on here poured scorn on the Dunne training ground story, I did point out that stories such as this are rarely without foundation. I hope it's not true though, this sort of inteference harks back to the days of big bad Doug.
My own view is that among the many problems at Villa, Faulkner is a major one. Of course, this is based purely on suspicion and I have absolutely no grounds or evidence to back this up whatsoever and this includes my view that O'Neil would still be manager if Faulkner wasn't around.
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If true that Lerner and Faulkner have ordered GED to reinstate Carew, dunne and Ireland he should resign- I doubt they would be stupid enough to interfere in a managers selections but if they did then I would nit want either Faulkner or Lerner at this club!
A manager has to be allowed to manage, I wonder if o neill walked over interference from Faulkner- I hope GED has the balls to kick Carew irfland and dunne out and that lerner shows some balls in backing him-questions are now being asked of Lerner by several people and his halo maybe slipping- now is the time to give the manager the cash and back him totally having decided to stick with him.
The position we are in you either totally back him or sack him and no in between measures- he needs a lot of cash to rebuild and should be given it if they are backing him.
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Although we can usually take the tabloids with a pinch of salt it has now bben widely reported. There is something wrong at mill or Villa not sure what to believe any more, this i do know, when your facing the biggest challenge for years everyone has to be on the same page. If there are troublemakers at Villa kick them out now usually it is the case of the vocal minority having sway over the silent majority. We or Lerner will lose a lot of money by doing it but we could lose a lot more by keeping them.
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Where's this list of Carew's then?
I think out of the whole article that's the only thing I wasn't aware of.
I don't know if it is true but this is supposedly his list of "best managers" from a Norwegian newspaper.
1.Nils Arne Eggen
2.Capello
3.Benitez
4.O`Neill
5.del Bosque
6.Cuper
7.Houllier
Has he played for all of these?
Would it be fair to say that this list would appear to be in the order of the folks who picked Carew regularly at the top ?
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Can't believe that
They'd be undermining houllier in a very public way if that's true which to me would say they've lost confidence in him and he's facing the chop imminently
I'm sure that they haven't said you have to pick Dunne and Ireland in the starting line up every week. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd said "we're paying these blokes over £100k a week between them and we think you should perhaps try to finfd a way to use them" while at te same time saying to the players "stop being silly buggers we're paying you over £100k a week".
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Which would seem to be a reasonable thing for the bloke funding it to say.
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Which would seem to be a reasonable thing for the bloke funding it to say.
It also makes sense, We had enough of that under Mon
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chairman should not be telling the manager anything about team selection - if they did im sure most managers would walk and houllier is a strong manager , he would not put up with it and neither should he.
all this speculation could easily be nipped in the bud by lerner saying he is totally in support of the manager - not hiding behind faulkner or the general but from the horses mouth for once, i watched john henry at liverpool and he came across brilliantly and told liverpool fans exactly as he saw it , id like more from randy even if its just once in his 4 years !
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chairman should not be telling the manager anything about team selection - if they did im sure most managers would walk and houllier is a strong manager , he would not put up with it and neither should he.
all this speculation could easily be nipped in the bud by lerner saying he is totally in support of the manager - not hiding behind faulkner or the general but from the horses mouth for once, i watched john henry at liverpool and he came across brilliantly and told liverpool fans exactly as he saw it , id like more from randy even if its just once in his 4 years !
All owners interfere in team matters as it is them who are funding it, to believe otherwise is extremely naive. They shouldn't attempt to pick the side but surely they are within their rights to encourage a manager to use the players who they are paying. It's no different from them allegedly trying to get MON to either use or sell squad players which you were entirely supportive of.
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Although we are talking from a perspective of speculation and rumour, it would appear that we may be returning to the fundamental issues that influenced the events of the summer. Players on high wages not being utilised.
Although those that run the club, and ultimately hold the purse strings have a right to put across a point of view, the manager must be allowed to manage. Within that players will inevitably loose from or fall out with the manager and therefore their presence in the team will be seen as counterproductive. If a return to form or resolution cannot be found than the player must move on. The opportunity for this is limited so it may be that you have players doing nothing on huge salaries for some time.
It is assumed that this was the centre of the argument between MON and the club, no more funds until you sell. Fair enough, a parting of the ways. But an insistance on these players being involved is a different matter altogether.
I see no reason for Dunne, Ireland or Carew to be anywhere near an already fragile squad unless there has been a huge change in attitude or fitness. Or, of course, we are short on numbers.
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i have no problem with randy telling houllier if he isnt using certain players to get rid of them but telling him that have to be picked would be totally out of order if true.
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i have no problem with randy telling houllier if he isnt using certain players to get rid of them but telling him that have to be picked would be totally out of order if true.
I agree,gotta be b.s . Its something even Doug wouldnt have done!!
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This is what the manager says (from the Mail):
Gerard Houllier will welcome defender Richard Dunne back into his plans for the Stamford Bridge clash against Chelsea.
Dunne was involved in an alleged training ground bust-up with assistant manager Garry McAllister over tactics although this has been played down by Houllier.
He said: "Dunne is back because his performances have improved in training.
"He was never out of the team because of some bust-up I was reading about.
"He had a word which lasted half a second with Macca (McAllister). I took him out of team because he was under performing and he was not the only one.
"I have watched all the training he has done and I think I'll give him the chance."
Midfielder Stephen Ireland could also soon return to the fold after being urged to "work harder" by Houllier.
Houllier said: "With Stephen, we will see. I have been pleased with him.
"He has a different attitude to the beginning so he will be soon back.
"But I've got to find a balance in the team at the same time. I've got Agbonlahor, Young, Heskey, Downing, who all are attacking type players."
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interesting words - lets hope they can deliver on the pitch as a good performance would give everyone a lift- chelsea have been poor recently and this is a good time to rediscover our form.
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I shall, as ever, remain highly sceptical but if Hou has seen enough to warrant involving Dunne and Ireland then fair enough. Thats his job, and after Tuesday, few players would have cause for complaint should they find themselves out of the side.
They might be a bit miffed if Dunne blunders around like parks player full of Brew XI and Ireland strolls around like a tourist though.
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interesting if dunne does play whether he leaves out cuellar or collins, although if dunne was dropped for his displays it makes you wonder how the hell warnock has kept his place in the team!
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Pires interview in L'Equipe, comment on player relations and Dunne in particular.
On sait les relations tendues entre Houllier et Dunn notamment. Peut-on parler de malaise dans le vestiaire ?
Je ne peux pas cacher qu'il y a une rupture avec certains joueurs avec lesquels Gérard Houllier n'entretient pas les meilleures relations possibles. Cette mauvaise ambiance, on la ressent dans le vestiaire et je peux vous assurer que tout le monde est à cran. Je sens de la démotivation, mais c'est normal étant donné la situation. Nous avons cinq mois pour nous réveiller et ne pas descendre. On n'a plus le choix !
Google translation
We know the strained relations between Houllier and especially Dunn. Can we talk of unease in the dressing room?
I can not hide that there is a break with some players with whom Gerard Houllier does not have the best relations possible. This bad feeling is the feeling in the dressing room and I can assure you that everyone is on edge. I feel the motivation, but that is normal given the situation. We have five months to wake up and not down. We have no choice!
L'Equipe - Clicky (http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/breves2011/20101229_175323_pires-houiller-n-est-pas-en-danger.html)
Can anyone offer a decent translation of this;
"Le club est en grands travaux. Avec l'arrivée de Gérard Houllier, il a fallu tout reconstruire. La mayonnaise Houllier ne prend pas - encore - et ça se voit sur le terrain. Nous ne gagnons plus et nous nous rapprochons dangereusement de la zone de relégation. Le coach doit refaire ses preuves."
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im sick of reading different articles by players and quotes coming out of the club -surely as mobile phones are banned and other strict rules apply then we should also stop players from giving stories to the press.
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Pires interview in L'Equipe, comment on player relations and Dunne in particular.
Well, that's just super. Thanks, Robert!
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"Le club est en grands travaux. Avec l'arrivée de Gérard Houllier, il a fallu tout reconstruire. La mayonnaise Houllier ne prend pas - encore - et ça se voit sur le terrain. Nous ne gagnons plus et nous nous rapprochons dangereusement de la zone de relégation. Le coach doit refaire ses preuves."
The club is under major repair. On Gerard's arrival, everything had to be rebuilt. Things aren't gelling for Houllier - yet - and that's obvious on the pitch. We're not winning any more and we're getting dangerously close to the relegation zone. The coach has to demonstrate the skills he's shown in the past.
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"Le club est en grands travaux. Avec l'arrivée de Gérard Houllier, il a fallu tout reconstruire. La mayonnaise Houllier ne prend pas - encore - et ça se voit sur le terrain. Nous ne gagnons plus et nous nous rapprochons dangereusement de la zone de relégation. Le coach doit refaire ses preuves."
The club is under major repair. On Gerard's arrival, everything had to be rebuilt. Things aren't gelling for Houllier - yet - and that's obvious on the pitch. We're not winning any more and we're getting dangerously close to the relegation zone. The coach has to demonstrate the skills he's shown in the past.
Merci.
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"Le club est en grands travaux. Avec l'arrivée de Gérard Houllier, il a fallu tout reconstruire. La mayonnaise Houllier ne prend pas - encore - et ça se voit sur le terrain. Nous ne gagnons plus et nous nous rapprochons dangereusement de la zone de relégation. Le coach doit refaire ses preuves."
The club is under major repair. On Gerard's arrival, everything had to be rebuilt. Things aren't gelling for Houllier - yet - and that's obvious on the pitch. We're not winning any more and we're getting dangerously close to the relegation zone. The coach has to demonstrate the skills he's shown in the past.
That's rather interesting, actually - 'everything had to be rebuilt'. I wonder if he means just as a result of the impact of MON's sudden leaving, or at a deeper level (as in, something that had built up over the last few years).
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A fair assessment?
The Guardian - Fans' fractured faith..... - Clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/02/gerard-houllier-aston-villa)
A very fair, and accurate summing up in my view.
Yeah, about as spot on as it gets.
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See this bothers me.
I accept any new manager will come in and have his own ideas.
Certain players who enjoyed a long run under the previous manager won't suddenly enjoy the same privileged position. Or good players who were used to playing a certain way have to adapt or spend time out of the side. For others, their face might just not fit anymore.
No real problem with any of that.
But it was widely accepted going into last summer that we were one, possibly two players away from having a really good side. Most pointed to the absence of a top forward and a midfielder who can open sides up as the only real gaps in the side.
Now it's supposedly a full scale rebuilding job required.
Two points
(A) I'm not convinced we actually need wholesale changes
and
(B) If we did need a major rebuilding job done, I'm not sure GH is the guy I'd want doing it.
It just sounds like another pre prepared excuse as far as I can see. Now the injuries are out the way, it's a case of "you can't fully judge me until I have rebuilt the entire squad."
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Well I'm not sure what would convince you of (A), but many people thought we needed at least 3 top quality additions under MON and his industrial playing style. That was with all the players we had then playing well (plus Milner), which they aren't now. If we are changing our playing style too then we would undoubtedly need more players. Plus rebuilding isn't just a matter of getting new players in, it's a matter of inculcating a new philosophy in the existing players too. I'm sure Houllier best knows what he wants to play and how far short what we've got at the moment is of what we need.
As for (B), well that's Randy's choice and it looks for the moment as though it was a decision made with the long term in mind, precisely because he thought that we needed significant rebuilding of the footballing infrastructure at the club.
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Still dont like him. I dont need to like him though. I need a team that performs well week in week out. Dont care how he does it.
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Still dont like him.
That's a shame, he loves you.
Oh hang on...I'm thinking of Jesus.
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Well whatever he said or did it worked today, so credit where it's due. He's set the benchmark now so more of the same from now on!
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He's changing a lot of things very quickly down there and a few players are in shock. The young kids want to make an impression early in their career and bought into it already. Some of the older lads haven't. But if they do we have a solid squad to build from. Let's hope today is some indication that things are beginning to sink in down there.
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Good with substitutions as well. Don't change what ain't broke, and Albrighton came on, was a threat in the dying moments and set up the winner.
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Good with substitutions as well. Don't change what ain't broke, and Albrighton came on, was a threat in the dying moments and set up the winner.
Must have been too busy celebrating our third - must have missed that.
(It does feel like that) :)
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I'd like 3 or 4 new signings this month to freshen things up but today's result is a real lift to us and a win on Wednesday will ease the pressure- Clark was superb at left back and could be a villa great in the future- well done to houllier today and let's hope it's the start of something exciting ahead!
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He got it right today. Well done. All we ask is that the team goes out and gives it 100% and looks like they have a gameplan. We did today. There's still problems at the back that need sorting, but that'll come. We looked quite threatening in attack, but it's good to have our front 4 of choice all playing for starters. Plus our central midfield was good for the first 70 minutes, and their experience makes a difference. Nige and Stan have only just got back from injury so they were weary towards the end.
January is key now. And Gerard needs to keep the players together and giving their best. O Neill had us overperforming very often and we'd always get 100% minimum. That's the benchmark that needs to be matched for starters.
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I've said enough on this thread but I maintain my primary point.
It's all about results.
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Good with substitutions as well. Don't change what ain't broke, and Albrighton came on, was a threat in the dying moments and set up the winner.
And failed to control the ball that let them in for their third!
Anyway, given that we had a lot of the senior players back today, and did a lot better, is it still the fashion to call for the manager's head?
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Good with substitutions as well. Don't change what ain't broke, and Albrighton came on, was a threat in the dying moments and set up the winner.
Must have been too busy celebrating our third - must have missed that.
(It does feel like that) :)
Oops. Bugger it, I stand by it. It's a sort of win.
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Still unsure. I'm not sure if today's performance was because of , or in spite of, our coaching team. I remember reading an article by I think Ian Harte who commented that the Leeds team managed by DOL played well in spite of him, because they all hated him and all his "my babies" crap at the time. I just wonder if the team got themselves fired up because they're pissed off with GH.
The next few games will be clearer.
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So they were playing crap because of him but played well in spite of him?
I think he deserves as much credit for today as he deserved the blame for the previous two games.
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One swallow doesn't make a summer, but a massive step forward today i think
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Let's not get carried away. Today was a good result, albeit with some of this season's frailties also present for all to see. It is now all about how we kick-on from here, or not as the case may be. It will be only then that we'll be able to identify as to whether today really was a turning point in Houllier's reign.
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I am coming to the conclusion that Houllier has some significant enemies in the media.
Over the Christmas period Robbie Savage, I know a former blues player and ex MON player, waxed lyrical about MON and stuck the knife into GH, referring to our midfield as being a Championship midfield. I think most Championship managers would give their right arm for a midfield that included Downing, Albrighton, Delph, Petrov and Pires. He attacked anyone who suggested that part of the problem was MON’s although he admitted one Villa supporter who rang in had a point when he said the timing of MON’s departure was wrong. He made it obvious GH was out of his depth and should be sacked and just questioned how long he would last.
Talksport have been having a go at him for weeks. Enough said there.
Today, Sky had its usual bias in commentating in favour of Chelski, but Rednapp really had a go at GH, saying he was playing too many kids, when the reality is he has had to because of injuries to senior players. He made a passing reference to us having had "one or two" injuries. He referred back to when GH went to Liverpool and fell out with senior players saying at least then he had good youngsters in Gerrard and Carragher. In other words, having a go at our youngsters. He was even supported by Ray Wilkins. They are either having a serious go at the man or they are ill informed.
Moxley in the Mail has gone overboard in giving him grief recently. Frankly some of his comments have been at worse malicious, at best ill informed.
The performance today was the best of the season. Apart from getting underneath the ball for Chelsea’s equaliser, Dunne was awesome. It was hardly the performance of a player/team who has fallen out with the manager and wants away. It all makes you wonder what exactly is going on at Villa. How much of the derision and grief he is getting from fans is actually being prompted by the remarks of these so called experts?
I think the man has some serious enemies in a way other managers in trouble, Hughes, Hodgson, Grant etc haven’t. They do not get the grief he does, neither do other managers at the bottom of the table. Why?
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Today, Sky had its usual bias in commentating in favour of Chelski,
Why is it that every statistic that comes out of Rob Hawthorne's mouth is negative towards Villa? what is his problem? I bet if you put a camera on him, his hand went up for offside when we equalised.
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I'm still not convinced about Houllier, but today was a massive step in the right direction. I don't dislike the man, and I genuinely hope he can turn the season around and prove me and his doubters wrong - continuing with three points against Sunderland.
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I think the man has some serious enemies in a way other managers in trouble, Hughes, Hodgson, Grant etc haven’t. They do not get the grief he does, neither do other managers at the bottom of the table. Why?
Partly because Villa are the ideal club to write 'Crisis' headlies about. Big enough to be kicked, not big enough to kick back. Partly because O'Neill had a lot of friends in the press, and they still think we were ungrateful to, as they see it, push him out. And partly because Randy's attitude towards the media might be understandable but it's not done him any favours with them.
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I'd also add that you really can't underestimate how ill-informed some of these 'pundits' are. They just regurgitate stuff that has appeared inn the tabloids; can you recall the last time you heard genuine insight from any of them? I can't.
I remember watching Soccer Saturday. The panel were rattling on for some time that our 'major problem' was scoring goals, we didn't score enough, where were the goals going to come from etc etc.
At the time, I think we were the second highest scorers in the league.
Very often, they really don't know what they're talking about.
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Robbie Savage, I know a former blues player and ex MON player, waxed lyrical about MON and stuck the knife into GH, referring to our midfield as being a Championship midfield.
Proves what a fucking thick Bellend his is as they are players brought by MON
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Robbie Savage, I know a former blues player and ex MON player, waxed lyrical about MON and stuck the knife into GH, referring to our midfield as being a Championship midfield.
Proves what a fucking thick Bellend his is as they are players brought by MON
I heard the rant that Gobby S had re MON and it made my blood boil that there was such a one-sided view being expressed on national radio.
However, that's the way it is: football "is all about opinions" [cliche # 357, from the football lexicon of cliches]. The only way to deal with it is for GH to come out and prove them all wrong by getting the team on a run of victories.
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Matt Jackson, summarising on the Wigan game for 5Live, was surprisingly intelligent. He even made me laugh at one point.
I think it's possible that part of Faulkner's brief is to become semi-accessible to the media on Randy's behalf. The two are clearly very close
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The press jump on whoever is struggling at the time and moyes will be next to cop the flak- there is a much more positive feeling about today and if we can win on weds I think we can turn our season around!
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Let's not get carried away. Today was a good result, albeit with some of this season's frailties also present for all to see. It is now all about how we kick-on from here, or not as the case may be. It will be only then that we'll be able to identify as to whether today really was a turning point in Houllier's reign.
the only people getting carried away were those like yourself who were demanding 'evidence' to how we were going to avoid relegation,
even if we had of lost yesterday i still think the team are good enough to avoid going down,
i think those that were coming on here saying we were definitley down if we stuck with Houllier were the ones getting carried away.
maybe they still think that,
but having said that you were one of those who were calling for a shred of evidence, and i think yesterday was a performance that gave you a little of that,
doesnt mean we cant go down, but does show us that Houllier isnt the complete numtey people had him down as
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Robbie Savage, I know a former blues player and ex MON player, waxed lyrical about MON and stuck the knife into GH, referring to our midfield as being a Championship midfield.
Proves what a fucking thick Bellend his is as they are players brought by MON
I heard the rant that Gobby S had re MON and it made my blood boil that there was such a one-sided view being expressed on national radio.
However, that's the way it is: football "is all about opinions" [cliche # 357, from the football lexicon of cliches]. The only way to deal with it is for GH to come out and prove them all wrong by getting the team on a run of victories.
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, and the fact that Savage is a tool, they're just doing their job. Say something controversial or have a dig at someone, and you guarantee yourself callers, and that's what they need.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
Not quite playing the MON way. MOTD had that graphic which clearly showed how we were better tactically than when we lost 7-1.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
Not quite playing the MON way. MOTD had that graphic which clearly showed how we were better tactically than when we lost 7-1.
The average position that each player touched the ball in graphic? I thought that was quite good. Explained a lot.
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Robbie Savage, I know a former blues player and ex MON player, waxed lyrical about MON and stuck the knife into GH, referring to our midfield as being a Championship midfield.
Proves what a fucking thick Bellend his is as they are players brought by MON
I heard the rant that Gobby S had re MON and it made my blood boil that there was such a one-sided view being expressed on national radio.
However, that's the way it is: football "is all about opinions" [cliche # 357, from the football lexicon of cliches]. The only way to deal with it is for GH to come out and prove them all wrong by getting the team on a run of victories.
Whilst I agree with what you're saying, and the fact that Savage is a tool, they're just doing their job. Say something controversial or have a dig at someone, and you guarantee yourself callers, and that's what they need.
for every Savage there's a Collymore. I'll listen to Collymore, but I have no doubt whatsoever that many people think he's a cock.
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Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
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Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
In fairness we never had a serious chance of relegation under MON though.
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Houllier has apparently said he will pay the £25k fine for all the yellow cards, because the players acted under his instruction.
Well done gerrard, but I'd ask Randy too make an official complaint about Lee Mason.
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Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
To compare all of our performances under MON with the Chelsea game last March is very unfair. One thing yesterday did stand out for me though was Carlos' performance at right back. He was always looking for the pass rather than hoofing it down the line. Yesterday for me was probably his best performance in that position.
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I agree Mark, there was one cross in particular that was especially good.
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[
[/quote]Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
Can't you post something positive about yesterday's performance without bringing up the previous manager?
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Clampy I've posted plenty of positives about yesterdays performance- too many on here are unwilling to give houllier a crack and always bigging up o neill- I'm saying it was nice to see us go to Chelsea and play some decent stuff- I was very impressed with the display and also the 2 centre backs playing at right back- both Clark and cuellar looked better than our current full backs.
It was a huge result and performance and now we need to follow up against sunderland- there are brighter days ahead and I cannot fault one player yesterday- nice to see dunne back to his best too and well done to everyone involved!
Ridiculous referreeing to book so many players in a game that never merited it, he seemed to brandish a card nearly every foul and was appalling!
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Let's not get carried away. Today was a good result, albeit with some of this season's frailties also present for all to see. It is now all about how we kick-on from here, or not as the case may be. It will be only then that we'll be able to identify as to whether today really was a turning point in Houllier's reign.
the only people getting carried away were those like yourself who were demanding 'evidence' to how we were going to avoid relegation,
even if we had of lost yesterday i still think the team are good enough to avoid going down,
i think those that were coming on here saying we were definitley down if we stuck with Houllier were the ones getting carried away.
maybe they still think that,
but having said that you were one of those who were calling for a shred of evidence, and i think yesterday was a performance that gave you a little of that,
doesnt mean we cant go down, but does show us that Houllier isnt the complete numtey people had him down as
I'm glad that some evidence can now be presented for the case against relegation. Just a pity that 48 hours ago it wasn't so readily available and we simply had to rely on far too many people saying: we won't go down. Period. When what was put in front of us as the case for the prosecution was a club in free-fall.
As I said previously, yesterday was a much better performance and a good result, better than most of us would have expected, but let's not get carried away. Chelsea are also in a woeful run of form.
We had a week of the self-congratulation after the last good performance: the match when we failed to hold on to a two goal lead against Man Utd. What then followed was one win and five defeats in the course of which we conceded sixteen goals and served up some pretty gutless displays.
If yesterday's result is to mean anything with regard to our prospects for the remainder of this season then our next six league games need to yield a minimum of three wins.
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Clampy I've posted plenty of positives about yesterdays performance- too many on here are unwilling to give houllier a crack and always bigging up o neill- I'm saying it was nice to see us go to Chelsea and play some decent stuff- I was very impressed with the display and also the 2 centre backs playing at right back- both Clark and cuellar looked better than our current full backs.
Yes, I seem to remember that you were a big fan of playing centre-backs at full-back under the previous manager.
A good tactic, just as long as it's not O'Neill doing it eh?
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Clampy I've posted plenty of positives about yesterdays performance- too many on here are unwilling to give houllier a crack and always bigging up o neill- I'm saying it was nice to see us go to Chelsea and play some decent stuff- I was very impressed with the display and also the 2 centre backs playing at right back- both Clark and cuellar looked better than our current full backs.
Yes, I seem to remember that you were a big fan of playing centre-backs at full-back under the previous manager.
A good tactic, just as long as it's not O'Neill doing it eh?
Too be fair Dave, you are actually forgetting what we complained about under Martin.
We agreed to Cuellar at RB against teams like Stoke and Chelsea, it was teams like Sunderland and wolves we wanted a proper full back with better distribution,
Martin was in hindsight a good manager who would be a great manager if he would have used his squad abit more and was abit more tactically aware. He had one way of playing no matter what the opposition.
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Yes dave , I was against playing cuellar at right back last season when luke young was available, but cuellar seemed much better on the ball yesterday and impressed me , I still think he's a better centre half but he did look a better option than lichaj, and Clark looked a much better option than warnock- I would be happy with them to continue at full back on those displays.
I fully appreciate the job martin did for us as manager but I felt he had taken us as far as he could and it was time for a change- I'm happy with the football houllier is trying to play but I accept and thank martin for some of the many good things he did during his time here.I am not an o neill hater but equally I would not want him back .
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Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
In fairness we never had a serious chance of relegation under MON though.
Really?
April 1st, 2007
15 Aston Villa p 30 34 pts
16 Wigan Athletic p 31 33 pts
17 Sheffield United p 31 31 pts
18 Charlton Athletic p 31 30 pts
19 West Ham United p 31 26 pts
20 Watford p 31 20 pts
Now, I'm not saying that we were seriously going to go down at that point, but if you accept some of the "OMG, we are certain to go down!!" hysteria of this week as justified, then you have to ask yourself how people would be feeling if, with 6 weeks of the season left, we were 15th and 4 points off a relegation place.
If you reckon we're seriously threatened by relegation now, then by the same measure, we were then too.
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Clampy I've posted plenty of positives about yesterdays performance- too many on here are unwilling to give houllier a crack and always bigging up o neill- I'm saying it was nice to see us go to Chelsea and play some decent stuff- I was very impressed with the display and also the 2 centre backs playing at right back- both Clark and cuellar looked better than our current full backs.
Yes, I seem to remember that you were a big fan of playing centre-backs at full-back under the previous manager.
A good tactic, just as long as it's not O'Neill doing it eh?
Too be fair Dave, you are actually forgetting what we complained about under Martin.
We agreed to Cuellar at RB against teams like Stoke and Chelsea, it was teams like Sunderland and wolves we wanted a proper full back with better distribution,
Martin was in hindsight a good manager who would be a great manager if he would have used his squad abit more and was abit more tactically aware. He had one way of playing no matter what the opposition.
spot on Shrek, hows Donkey?
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Of course it was basically mons team - houllier hasn't had a chance to bring his own players in yet- much better performance though than o neill got out them against Chelsea last April- give him time to build a team and style of play and we will be fine.
O neill had 4 yrs and the quality of football under him was very poor , already we are seeing signs of better football under houllier!
In fairness we never had a serious chance of relegation under MON though.
Really?
April 1st, 2007
15 Aston Villa p 30 34 pts
16 Wigan Athletic p 31 33 pts
17 Sheffield United p 31 31 pts
18 Charlton Athletic p 31 30 pts
19 West Ham United p 31 26 pts
20 Watford p 31 20 pts
Now, I'm not saying that we were seriously going to go down at that point, but if you accept some of the "OMG, we are certain to go down!!" hysteria of this week as justified, then you have to ask yourself how people would be feeling if, with 6 weeks of the season left, we were 15th and 4 points off a relegation place.
If you reckon we're seriously threatened by relegation now, then by the same measure, we were then too.
Can you imagine what this place would be like if we were in this position with a few weeks to go? I dread to think of the utter carnage and white flag waving. We finished in 11th that season if my memory serves correctly. So much will change between now and the end of the season, and aside from the top 4 not one team from 5th through 20th has shown a real ability to put a good sequence of results together.
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Quite right Toronto, a decent run of results could still see us finish in the top 8 - there is little to choose between 8th and 20th and I hope yesterdays result was the turning point in our season.
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
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Today, Sky had its usual bias in commentating in favour of Chelski,
Why is it that every statistic that comes out of Rob Hawthorne's mouth is negative towards Villa? what is his problem? I bet if you put a camera on him, his hand went up for offside when we equalised.
Doubt it, he's a Villa fan.
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Same as on Sunday supplement dave , and on goals on Sunday- today's extra saw kamara 3 times referring to mike dean as our referee yesterday- custis, woolnough and co seem to have a very one eyed view of events at villa in recent months!
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One good team performance over 90 minutes in 4 months. That performance at Chelsea is what we should be seeing as the normal not the exception.
The jury is still out for me.
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
Big time.
Ash celebrated by winding up the locals and on the other two occasions, practically the entire side celebrated in front of us in the corner.
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
I read Steven Howard's piece in The Sun too. I think that was his way of papering over another dismal day for Chelsea.
As for the players not celebrating with Houiller, the players all ran to Clark who had a great game and quite rightly so. That was'nt our friend James Nursey doing the match report was it?
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The Monday after the Man Utd game, i read Brian Woolnough's collum in The Daily Jordan, i mean Star. He was saying what a decent game the ref had and got very little wrong. I emailed him to remind him that he booked Ashley Young for running to the crowd after his penalty, but did'nt book Rio Ferdinand for doing the same.
He replied to me, without saying Hello or Thanking me for my email and said something along the lines of 'it's easy to find fault with minor incidents.'
I replied back by saying those minor incidents could have caused trouble amongst fans and a better journalist would have noticed that.
He did'nt reply back.
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
I do agree that the injury line is and has been an easy excuse, however in defence of Houllier he has not really been using that as an excuse, as much as some on here have.
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;-)
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
thatds what makes me think we should get behind the manager even more, all these MON media bum lickers... Its media bullying..
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
I didnt read the mirror, but read the sun, and thought Howard was talking bollocks. Clark ran towards and celebrated with the fans, that was more important. Basically, it was crap journalism!
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Same as on Sunday supplement dave , and on goals on Sunday- today's extra saw kamara 3 times referring to mike dean as our referee yesterday- custis, woolnough and co seem to have a very one eyed view of events at villa in recent months!
Oliver Cn** sorry Holt is the worse. Talks bollocks about Villa...
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Clampy I've posted plenty of positives about yesterdays performance- too many on here are unwilling to give houllier a crack and always bigging up o neill- I'm saying it was nice to see us go to Chelsea and play some decent stuff- I was very impressed with the display and also the 2 centre backs playing at right back- both Clark and cuellar looked better than our current full backs.
It was a huge result and performance and now we need to follow up against sunderland- there are brighter days ahead and I cannot fault one player yesterday- nice to see dunne back to his best too and well done to everyone involved!
Ridiculous referreeing to book so many players in a game that never merited it, he seemed to brandish a card nearly every foul and was appalling!
I know im going to be in a minority here, but i thought overall the Ref had a good game. he booked 2 for dissent, we dont know what was said, however, id say it wasnt polite, and both yellows there were justified, Stans was the easiest yellow of the season, NRC stopped an attack from developing by a sneaky trip, another was for 2 attempts at stopping an attack devolping ( clark i think), in those cases, a yellow was justified, however harsh you may think they were.
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I think the press are part of the problem Villa and any Birmingham based side has in attracting better players. Thy big up all the London based and Manchester sides now City have all that money, but rubbish Birmingham as teams not to be thought of as anything but mediocre and a terrible place to live. We had a clue as to how quick they jump on the bandwagon when we looked at one stage that we might beat Arsenal for fourth spot. You can tell how bereft of actual insight they are by their usage of sites like this and i notice Ian Robot appearing in newsnow fairly often.
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If there is one thing Houllier deserves credit for it is that he has hardly mentioned the injuries.
The more coverage football gets these days the more clueless national journos seem to be, they watch the big teams and know nothing about the rest. It bugs me when the likes of Custis are on radio 5 when you could just as easily have one of us on.
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I happened to read the Mirror and the Sun today. The Mirror's match report made two references to the players not celebrating the equaliser with Houllier, like that makes any difference. Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
I do agree that the injury line is and has been an easy excuse, however in defence of Houllier he has not really been using that as an excuse, as much as some on here have.
Excuse!? Words fail.
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We need to close ranks and see this period through. I have no doubt that's what the team has been discussing. We've actually got some good press in a few places today, but much of the media has no interest in seeing us doing well. It's far more interesting suggesting or writing overly elaborate rumours about the club.
This piece in The Guardian is quite decent:
Richard Williams at Stamford Bridge guardian.co.uk, Sunday 2 January 2011 19.21
So impressive were Aston Villa in snatching a point against the champions today that it was impossible not to wonder where they might be sitting in the Premier League table now had Gérard Houllier been able to rely on the fitness, form and goodwill of his senior players throughout the first half of the season.
Instead, for a variety of reasons, Houllier found himself forced to compensate for significant absences by staging a wholesale raid on the ranks of recent graduates to the first-team squad. The likes of Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannan, Nathan Delfouneso and Jonathan Hogg display rich promise, but the result was a downward spiral to the point where a club who challenged for a Champions League place last season found themselves on the fringe of the relegation zone. A draw against Chelsea is not by itself enough to lift them out of danger but it did show that they are not in nearly as bad a state as their results in November and December suggested.
Under the eyes of their American owner, Randy Lerner, Villa played with strength and concentration at the back, resolution in midfield and commitment up front. They shaded a first half which ended 1-1 before taking the lead a couple of minutes after the interval, and if Chelsea's thunderous crescendo made the second and third goals look probable rather than possible, then the injury-time header with which Ciaran Clark restored parity was no more than the visitors deserved on the balance of play.
Houllier made four changes of personnel from the side who lost 4-0 at Eastlands last Tuesday, all of them significant and some of them surprisingly so. It was hardly astonishing, of course, to see Emile Heskey returning to the line-up and playing so effectively in the opening period before scoring his side's second goal. Heskey and Houllier have enjoyed a productive relationship ever since the Frenchman paid Leicester City £11m of Liverpool's money for the striker's services a decade ago, before his value declined through moves to Birmingham, Wigan and finally Villa.
Built like a brute, Heskey is nevertheless a notorious sufferer from fragile confidence and Houllier, not always the most kid-gloved of man-managers, seems to understand how to give the big fellow the reassurance he needs in order to perform at his best. Just over a week away from his 33rd birthday, Heskey was as influential as anyone on the pitch, providing an invaluable point of reference for the younger players around him. On this occasion Gabriel Agbonlahor and Ashley Young, a couple of habitual underachievers, responded eagerly.
Two minutes after his goal, Heskey also received the last of the seven yellow cards distributed to Villa players, joining Stilian Petrov, James Collins, Brad Friedel, Nigel Reo-Coker, Agbonlahor and Clark in the referee's notebook. Asked about the club being fined for exceeding five cautions in a match, Houllier gave a broad smile. "I'll pay, if necessary," he said, tacitly confirming the feeling that a show of aggression had played a part in his side's approach.
He had been nervous that one of his players would collect a second card and be removed from a finely balanced contest. Interestingly, however, Villa showed a discipline that enabled them to survive the last 40 minutes of almost unrelenting Chelsea pressure, plus five minutes of stoppage time, without incurring Lee Mason's further displeasure.
Among the reasons for their success were two outstanding saves from Friedel midway through the second period, the American deflecting Frank Lampard's scorching volley before sprinting out to block Florent Malouda's close-range effort after Lampard had sent the pass of the match slicing through the visitors' back line. Friedel will be 40 in May but, like Edwin van der Sar at Old Trafford, he will be hard to replace.
Richard Dunne sometimes seems a lot older than his 31 years and in recent weeks he has looked surplus to requirements at Villa Park. An alarming plunge in the centre-back's form provided a reminder of a similar phenomenon that prefaced his departure from Manchester City and this time it coincided with stories of a training-ground dispute with Gary McAllister, Houllier's assistant.
Today, however, recalled to face Chelsea's heavyweight attack, the Irishman gave a performance reminiscent of his best days, full of brusque vigour, cold-eyed determination and the kind of perfectly timed intervention that allowed him to stop the marauding Salomon Kalou well inside the Villa area after 75 minutes.
The visitors' success also owed much to the combination of Petrov and Reo-Coker in central midfield. Like Heskey and Dunne, neither would make a Premier League All Stars XI. Today, however, their unremitting effort was exactly what their manager had called for on a day when he needed to show his employer that all is not lost.
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I don't usually like Richard Williams (sanctimonious bandwagon-jumper sometimes), but that's a good article.
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Lee Dixon was very positive about us on MOTD2. He had to be prompted a couple of times to mention Chelsea.
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Some people on here just like too cause a stir no matter what the situation.
Injuries is the main reason we are where we are. Followed by a very underused reserve team with no experience.
Gerrard has too have credit for doing what Martin never, which is bring back a player he has allegedly had a row with. Martin never used NRC when we needed him.
We can't judge Gerrard yet.
I had a bet with the lad who sits in front of me at the spurs game that we would finish 6-8th, after man city I thought I was mad, after Chelsea there is hope.
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I think you're mad.
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Me too, although we can dream, and I definitely hope you're right!
Thought that was a good article too.
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I think you're mad.
Still a lot of points to play for Risso, hope we can have a good second half of the season
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It's such an open league that it wouldn't shock me if we did finish 7th or 8th.
But it also wouldn't surprise me if we finished 13th or 14th.
It would surprise me if we finished any lower though.
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I think you're mad.
I'm sure you do but then you are this season's Miss H&V's Drama Queen. Pantomine season is over, Risso. (winky)
If we win our next three matches (Sunderland, Sheff Utd and the Rags) our whole season can be turned upside down. We've seen both Everton and Spurs have very poor first half of seasons, only to come back with a vengence. I'm expecting the same from Villa this season and am sticking with my prediction of 7th.
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Yesterday was a massive boost, If he can get that effort and concentration out of the team we will be fine.
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As for the Houllier-bashing: I think it's more to do with him than with Villa. Most of the football writers seem to want to take him down a peg. Maybe he doesn't play the game their way, that's usually the reason.
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I think you're mad.
I'm sure you do but then you are this season's Miss H&V's Drama Queen. (winky)
If we win our next three matches (Sunderland, Sheff Utd and the Rags) our whole season can be turned upside down. We've seen both Everton and Spurs have very poor first half of seasons, only to come back with a vengence. I'm expecting the same from Villa this season and am sticking with my prediction of 7th.
Every season we have a three month stint which is rubbish. I'm just expecting this season's to be at the start rather than the end for a change.
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I can't be bothered to actually post the fixture list, but there's about a three month period where every match really is put down as 'winnable'.
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I can't be bothered to actually post the fixture list, but there's about a three month period where every match really is put down as 'winnable'.
Aston Villa v Sunderland, 19:45
Birmingham v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Man City, 17:30
Wigan v Aston Villa, 19:45
Man Utd v Aston Villa, 20:00
Aston Villa v Fulham, 15:00
Blackpool v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Blackburn, 15:00
Bolton v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Wolverhampton, 15:00
Everton v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Newcastle, 15:00
West Ham v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Stoke, 15:00
West Brom v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Wigan, 15:00
Arsenal v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Liverpool, 16:00
I've bolded the ones we really should be winning.
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Between the Man United and Arsenal aways, we could conceivably win 11 in a row. I know it's highly unlikely, but they're all gettable.
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I am guessing 16 points by the end of feb which should be enough to avoid a relegation battle
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I can't be bothered to actually post the fixture list, but there's about a three month period where every match really is put down as 'winnable'.
Aston Villa v Sunderland, 19:45
Birmingham v Aston Villa
Aston Villa v Man City, 17:30
Wigan v Aston Villa, 19:45
Man Utd v Aston Villa, 20:00
Aston Villa v Fulham, 15:00
Blackpool v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Blackburn, 15:00
Bolton v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Wolverhampton, 15:00
Everton v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Newcastle, 15:00
West Ham v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Stoke, 15:00
West Brom v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Wigan, 15:00
Arsenal v Aston Villa, 15:00
Aston Villa v Liverpool, 16:00
I've bolded the ones we really should be winning.
we can win the last game as well
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Between the Man United and Arsenal aways, we could conceivably win 11 in a row. I know it's highly unlikely, but they're all gettable.
My point exactly. They range from the should wins to the could wins. Our injuries have also coincided with really quite a nasty run of games - even a potential respite, away to Wigan, was snowed off! I am really very confident we can put an Everton-esque run together in the second half of the season.
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Our squad is capable of going on a good run in this league. The issue is that we need to see that run happening, rather than just hoping for it to start.
Gerard's 14 points from 15 games is a big concern and is the fuel for the negative press.
The Chelsea performance at least offers hope of a turnaround, now we need to see significantly better results.
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Our squad is capable of going on a good run in this league. The issue is that we need to see that run happening, rather than just hoping for it to start.
Gerard's 14 points from 15 games is a big concern and is the fuel for the negative press.
The Chelsea performance at least offers hope of a turnaround, now we need to see significantly better results.
I just hope that they treat the Sunderland game with the intensity it deserves, we need 3 points
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Sunderland game is massive. Win that and we go into the SHA game without massive pressure and it'll allow us to play our stuff.
Something which I think will suit us more under Houllier than it did under MON - when we seemed to get complacent when doing well and needed the pressure on us.
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Well that was a step in the right direction. Houllier seems to have ate a bit of humble pie & got the senior players back on his side by playing a formation & system they are comfy with.
I do think the penalty & subsequent rash of bookings did bring about a seige mentality & got the back-up of the lads & helped bring about this mini-revival.
Wether the leopard can change his spots & will be able to curb his acerbic personality remains to be seen. I'd still prefer him to go, but it looks like barring a calamity against Sunderland he will be staying.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
Not quite playing the MON way. MOTD had that graphic which clearly showed how we were better tactically than when we lost 7-1.
How about when we beat them at home then? Or beat Man Utd away? Or when we beat Arsenal? Liverpool? It was MON's team and they played like they would under him.
All GH has to do is slightly change the way MON's team played and we'll be all the better for it.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
Not quite playing the MON way. MOTD had that graphic which clearly showed how we were better tactically than when we lost 7-1.
How about when we beat them at home then? Or beat Man Utd away? Or when we beat Arsenal? Liverpool? It was MON's team and they played like they would under him.
All GH has to do is slightly change the way MON's team played and we'll be all the better for it.
Bear in mind this is the first time injuries have really permitted him to play MON's team.
Hopefully it will get better as the players who have returned from injury get more match fitness.
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It did amuse me on Sunday when common opinion (5Live, MOTD2) seemed to be that Houllier had a change of mind and started selecting all the senior players again, after a few months of picking 'the kids'. When, in actual fact, it's the first time in a couple of months he's had Cuellar, Dunne, Petrov, Reo-Coker, Heskey, Gabby, Ashley Young all fit and available at the same time. Chelsea match was the strongest squad we've had available since October.
Things still aren't ideal but we'll do a lot better with the core of the team playing again. I think the media believed Houllier was picking Hogg over Petrov, etc, because he wanted to....
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Where as if 'Arry had to pick his kids, they'd all be touted for England places now, even if they were wrong end of the table.
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That run of fixtures post Man U away is favourable, but only if we make the most of it.
Defending as we have for large chunks of the season and I wouldn't say any of those are nailed on certainties. Well actually I would, they'd be nailed on for the opposition.
Sides like Sunderland and Bolton have improved this year too, they'll have designs on top 6/top 8 finishes.
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It did amuse me on Sunday when common opinion (5Live, MOTD2) seemed to be that Houllier had a change of mind and started selecting all the senior players again, after a few months of picking 'the kids'. When, in actual fact, it's the first time in a couple of months he's had Cuellar, Dunne, Petrov, Reo-Coker, Heskey, Gabby, Ashley Young all fit and available at the same time. Chelsea match was the strongest squad we've had available since October.
Things still aren't ideal but we'll do a lot better with the core of the team playing again. I think the media believed Houllier was picking Hogg over Petrov, etc, because he wanted to....
Boxing Day vs Spurs
Houllier chose Hogg and Delph over NRC and Petrov, because he wanted to, he chose not to include Dunne, otherwise we could have had exactly the same team as against Chelsea minus Ashley Young.
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To be fair, Houllier said in the Chelsea post match interview that he had picked an experienced side because he thought experience was needed at Stamford Bridge.
I think that we should remember, though, that he might had picked another team against Spurs if it wasn't for the fact that we were playing Chelsea three days later. Maybe he thought it would be a risk to play Stan and NRC in two matches in the space of three days just after they had recovered from injury.
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To be fair, Houllier said in the Chelsea post match interview that he had picked an experienced side because he thought experience was needed at Stamford Bridge.
I think that we should remember, though, that he might had picked another team against Spurs if it wasn't for the fact that we were playing Chelsea three days later. Maybe he thought it would be a risk to play Stan and NRC in two matches in the space of three days just after they had recovered from injury.
McAllister said that very thing before the holiday period, that we'd need to use the squad with so many games and some players just coming back to fitness.
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There will no doubt be more hiccups along the way but a good draw at Chelsea which could have been a win sets us up more than some of the dire games when only a few of the experienced players were out fully fit.
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Eh?
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We tried to play some neat football against Chelsea and I would hope we can get an early goal against sunderland and really take the game to them- we need to be wary of their attack but I'd go for an unchanged team- there is a feelgood factor after Chelsea and we could really go on a run and by the end of the month be in the top half of the table, a win tomorrow would really kickstart things and I don't see blues or Wigan beating us if we play as we did !
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Eh?
What's the difference between a duck?
One of its legs is both the same.
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Boxing Day vs Spurs
Houllier chose Hogg and Delph over NRC and Petrov, because he wanted to, he chose not to include Dunne, otherwise we could have had exactly the same team as against Chelsea minus Ashley Young.
Against Spurs, sure, he perhaps did have options but players were only just fit again.... Petrov was on the bench but perhaps not considered fit to start (his self-confessed return date being Jan 16 v Blues, I read).
My point was, the last couple of months, Houllier has had no choice but to pick and play the likes of Hogg, Clark in midfield, Bannan... listening to some pundits, they're of the opinion he's actively dropped a handful of key senior players in preference to the young lads but then hastily swallowed humble pie v Chelsea and brought them all back. Which wasn't the case. Do you think Hogg would have started so many games had NRC/Petrov/Delph/Sidwell been available?
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Boxing Day vs Spurs
Houllier chose Hogg and Delph over NRC and Petrov, because he wanted to, he chose not to include Dunne, otherwise we could have had exactly the same team as against Chelsea minus Ashley Young.
Against Spurs, sure, he perhaps did have options but players were only just fit again.... Petrov was on the bench but perhaps not considered fit to start (his self-confessed return date being Jan 16 v Blues, I read).
My point was, the last couple of months, Houllier has had no choice but to pick and play the likes of Hogg, Clark in midfield, Bannan... listening to some pundits, they're of the opinion he's actively dropped a handful of key senior players in preference to the young lads but then hastily swallowed humble pie v Chelsea and brought them all back. Which wasn't the case. Do you think Hogg would have started so many games had NRC/Petrov/Delph/Sidwell been available?
I'd like to think so, yes.
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Eh?
What's the difference between a duck?
One of its legs is both the same.
That's why I come on here. It's the only place I hear anybody talking any bloody sense.
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Returning to the original point of this thread, should GH be backed or sacked? Before the Chelsea match, it seemed impossible to have a sensible debate on this. The majority thought he had to be sacked because he was "clueless", "had turned a team that finished 6th into a relegation certainty", etc.
I thought it was highly frustrating to read such comments. Regardless of his performance at Villa, Houllier has obvious strong points: he is highly experienced, very knowledgeable, capable of winning trophies. He has tactical nous, is adept at designing a game plan tailored to a specific opponent (that is one of the reasons why he has been successful in cup competitions) and has a good record of developing young players. All in all, I'd say he has he qualities to become a successful Villa manager.
On the flipside, he has some weak points: his transfer record is mixed, his focus on discipline seems overtly strict at times and not always designed to get the best out of 'difficult' players. He is clearly capable to holding a grudge (against David Ginola) for a very long time. In the wrong circumstances, such weak points can provide his downfall.
The bottom line is that it is too early to tell: he has enough strengths and weaknesses to become both a success and fiasco (and will probably end up somewhere between). Anyway, sacking a manager after four months is silly. Backing him is, too me, the only option.
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Where as if 'Arry had to pick his kids, they'd all be touted for England places now, even if they were wrong end of the table.
I've seen quite a lot of people suggesting that Albrighton should be playing for England already.
Clark and Bannan are obviously not going to be touted for England places.
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Certainly albrighton has the potential to be an England winger- if he continues to develop over the next year or so then he will be knocking on the door of the squad- if the likes of Henderson can get capped then albrighton has every chance.
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Returning to the original point of this thread, should GH be backed or sacked? Before the Chelsea match, it seemed impossible to have a sensible debate on this. The majority thought he had to be sacked because he was "clueless", "had turned a team that finished 6th into a relegation certainty", etc.
I thought it was highly frustrating to read such comments. Regardless of his performance at Villa, Houllier has obvious strong points: he is highly experienced, very knowledgeable, capable of winning trophies. He has tactical nous, is adept at designing a game plan tailored to a specific opponent (that is one of the reasons why he has been successful in cup competitions) and has a good record of developing young players. All in all, I'd say he has he qualities to become a successful Villa manager.
I'd say a fair chunk of any criticism was valid, and he's by no means out of the woods yet.
Results is one thing, but the decline in performance over the past few months could only cause concern. Mitigating circumstances re injuries and inherited issues such as Dunne's condition would give him the benefit of the doubt were we 'only' mid table. But being lower than West Ham (even if it was only for 24 hours) should have helped focus a few minds if players (and fans) thought we would just automatically sleepwalk our way to safety under his guidance.
We have a fight on our hands, make no mistake and I'm not sure he's the type you'd want in the trenches. He brings an academic approach to football and his knowledge and contacts of the wider game could be useful to us - just not necessarily as Aston Villa manager. Perhaps in a less pressurised Chief Co-ordinator/ glorified Head Scout role. Pointing to a haul of trophies he won ten years ago isn't necessarily much use to us either. They won't be added to our honours list. The game changes and if we are going after successful managers of yesteryear George Graham's record trumps his (plus he actually played for the club). It would be much more preferable if we had a guy hungry to make his name and his own history with us, rather than someone who often gives out all the vibes of being in semi retirement mode.
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I'd say a fair chunk of any criticism was valid, and he's by no means out of the woods yet.
Of course much of the criticism is valid. Results have been very poor, and performances, a lot of the time, not much better. But I don't agree that ANY criticism is valid. I can understand people who fear that he isn't the kind of manager we need at the moment, allthough I think there is a good chance that he might be. His record doesn't guarantee success, there are a lot of examples of managers doing well at one club who goes on to struggle someplace else. What I object to, is inane outbursts claiming he's a useless clown who is certain to get us relegated, and that's a fact.
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When the good performances (Chelsea, the 60 minutes or whatever it was against Manure) out number the poor performances (Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Citeh, Blose), then Houllier will receive more support.
The manner of the defeats, the dismal performances being the majority, coupled with his poor team management and poor supporter PR, it will be a little more time yet until Houllier gets everyones backing, however there are promising signs. He is Villa manager and deserves our full backing and support, but considering Chelsea was "one" good performance since September, he has a long way to go yet.
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I can't see that anything can be stated as fact about Houllier's suitability as manager at this point... obviously, results haven't been great yet if we'd kept Fulham out for another eight seconds we'd be pretty much in midtable. But anyway. I feel he's got the vision to bring us along as a club, long-term - short-term, there's a bit of pain. Injuries have been horrendous, and I also think he's been guilty of trying to move some things along too quickly; something has taken place between him and Ireland as the player is clearly out of favour and on his way, and I'd say Carew is in the same boat. He and Dunne may or may not have settled their reported differences, we'll see - I'd have thought the summer was the time to be getting rid of unwanted senior players, not mid-season with results going against you, and I think Houllier's made a mistake there.
But he now has big players back, and Chelsea showed he can look at opponents and - given options - pick a team to win (or nearly win) a game. Is he the type of manager we need? Don't see why not. If you're in the bottom half of the table do you want a guy who rolls his sleeves up and screams "stuck in boys!!!!!" or a clear-headed, tactical thinker? Gary MacAllister is there to play the animated, touchline-hopping role - we want (or wanted) something different from Houllier. Didn't we?
At the very least, we need to give GH the January transfer window and the rest of the season. If the season's a disaster and we go down, he's gone anyway. If it's a pretty lame second half and we're 15th, with no reason for optimism or hope, or plan, we make a quick decision in May and then appoint as early as possible. And if the second half sees an improvement, one or two encouraging signings in January, then GH has earned the right to start his rebuilding plans...
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It's the "if we go down" bit that worries me Merv. There's no way it should even be a consideration.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
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I can't see that anything can be stated as fact about Houllier's suitability as manager at this point... obviously, results haven't been great yet if we'd kept Fulham out for another eight seconds we'd be pretty much in midtable. But anyway. I feel he's got the vision to bring us along as a club, long-term - short-term, there's a bit of pain. Injuries have been horrendous, and I also think he's been guilty of trying to move some things along too quickly; something has taken place between him and Ireland as the player is clearly out of favour and on his way, and I'd say Carew is in the same boat. He and Dunne may or may not have settled their reported differences, we'll see - I'd have thought the summer was the time to be getting rid of unwanted senior players, not mid-season with results going against you, and I think Houllier's made a mistake there.
But he now has big players back, and Chelsea showed he can look at opponents and - given options - pick a team to win (or nearly win) a game. Is he the type of manager we need? Don't see why not. If you're in the bottom half of the table do you want a guy who rolls his sleeves up and screams "stuck in boys!!!!!" or a clear-headed, tactical thinker? Gary MacAllister is there to play the animated, touchline-hopping role - we want (or wanted) something different from Houllier. Didn't we?
At the very least, we need to give GH the January transfer window and the rest of the season. If the season's a disaster and we go down, he's gone anyway. If it's a pretty lame second half and we're 15th, with no reason for optimism or hope, or plan, we make a quick decision in May and then appoint as early as possible. And if the second half sees an improvement, one or two encouraging signings in January, then GH has earned the right to start his rebuilding plans...
This is a very good post.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
Regardless, I still don't think there's a chance we'll go down. We have players returning, and there are teams infinitely shitter than us.
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Relegation is worrying, but I don't think it'll happen.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
We will not get relegated.
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.....if we'd kept Fulham out for another eight seconds we'd be pretty much in midtable.
....If the season's a disaster and we go down, he's gone anyway. ......
......If it's a pretty lame second half and we're 15th, with no reason for optimism or hope, or plan, we make a quick decision in May and then appoint as early as possible.
... if the second half sees an improvement, one or two encouraging signings in January, then GH has earned the right to start his rebuilding plans...
I wonder does Houllier like Rudyard Kipling?
If.
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream–and not make dreams your master,
If you can think–and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ‘em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings–nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And–which is more–you’ll be a Man, my son!
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
9 points from 6th says we can turn it around.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
9 points from 6th says we can turn it around.
With a game in hand.
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I think he should go. But as he won't be leaving just yet I'll get behind him 100% and hope that everyone does. Lose to the scum again though and that will change things.
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Lose to the scum again though and that will change things.
Are we now that small time? Over recent years we've played poorly and managed to find a winner against the Rags. The Cup game this season we were the better team but we didn't have the luck. Anything can happen in a local derby. But you're probably right, the result against the Rags could change things. A win and a few of the drama queens on here will be calling him the Messiah.
If I had to sacrifice losing to them but thereafter putting together a winning run that would see us climb the table to finish 6th, I'd take it now. The game tomorrow tonight is far more important than our derby game with the Kuckledraggers.
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It's the "if we go down" bit that worries me Merv. There's no way it should even be a consideration.
Well, yes. If there's even a threat of that March I expect this whole site to go into meltdown.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
9 points from 6th says we can turn it around.
9 points is a huge amount of points at this stage of the season and says nothing of the sort.
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Sunderland and bolton are catchable even now- outside the top 5 there isn't a great deal between the rest and any team that puts a run together can finish 6th- would not surprise me to see Sunderland go 6 or 7 without a win and plenty for us to play for yet- if we beat them, blues and Wigan we would probably be into the top 10 with 3 months to go!
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It's the "if we go down" bit that worries me Merv. There's no way it should even be a consideration.
Well, yes. If there's even a threat of that March I expect this whole site to go into meltdown.
and rightly so.
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
Like Chelsea?
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
Just this season, or for the last few as well?
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It's the "if we go down" bit that worries me Merv. There's no way it should even be a consideration.
Well, yes. If there's even a threat of that March I expect this whole site to go into meltdown.
The whole site goes into meltdown when we finish 6th three seasons in a row!!! Well, some of them do, there are a few sane members on here!
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
Like Chelsea?
It becomes less important when you have the luxury of points amassed from other games.
But to be honest, as with Chelsea, I think the performance is more important than the actual result, although we're getting to the stage where points are needed as well.
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After the recent run the performance matters most and a win would be perfect icing on the cake.
But Sunderland are no ones fools this season and Bruce always has a thing for us and another for Houllier, so expect fireworks.
We need a couple of confidence builders, games that shut up the Houllier out brigade for a while, and following Chelsea, Sunderland are a good choice for us to do that even if the result doesn't go totally our way.
Be even nicer if we signed someone decent before the game too to show what direction Houllier is thinking
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A lot of the unrest is due to some not liking GH due to his bindipper comments though i'm sure a lot of the GH-out mob would deny it..If he'd kept his mouth shut he'd have a bit more leeway. Personally i don't care what club he's in love with, as i didn't care about DOL's Arsenal love-in but some fans don't realise its just a job to 99% of managers. if he gets the boot hopefully it will be based solely on results not on some sort of hate campaign. As for relegation we'll know if its a real danger end of this month and i think there's enough promise from the last game to give him till then
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
Just this season, or for the last few as well?
Last season we weren't standing on top of the regelation trap door.
Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
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Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
Played ten, lost four. I wish we were that shit away from home.
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If we can't beat Sunderland AT HOME, we deserve to go down.
Just this season, or for the last few as well?
Last season we weren't standing on top of the regelation trap door.
Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
out of interest are you french canadian? only heard them use the phrase on your signature
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Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
Played ten, lost four. I wish we were that shit away from home.
Eh? One win this season so far, oddly enough, Chelsea.
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Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
Played ten, lost four. I wish we were that shit away from home.
Eh? One win this season so far, oddly enough, Chelsea.
Correct, which would mean they've drawn five. Not such a soft touch as you make out, not that I don't think we won't beat them but to describe their away form as shit, is just plain wrong.
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I don't think there's a cat's chance in hell we'll go down.
Two points off the relegation places in January says otherwise.
9 points from 6th says we can turn it around.
With a game in hand.
Which is against Wigan.
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Sunderland are shite away, we have a full squad so there's no excuse.
Played ten, lost four. I wish we were that shit away from home.
Eh? One win this season so far, oddly enough, Chelsea.
Correct, which would mean they've drawn five. Not such a soft touch as you make out, not that I don't think we won't beat them but to describe their away form as shit, is just plain wrong.
Yep, fair point. The table does lie (sometimes).
I still think a victory is on the cards.
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Steven Howard in the Sun talked about him "hiding behind the all-too-easy excuse of injuries." It's bollocks, and it shows there is definitely an agenda amongst the nationals.
What a rambling, unfocused, jealousy-riddled, poor, poor article. That article gave up half way in, as opposed to us giving up reading it half way in.
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we need a high tempo game again tomorrow
then we can go and muller sheff utd
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Stephen Warnock is considering his future at Aston Villa after he was dropped from the starting XI and left out of the squad for the trip to Chelsea on Sunday without any explanation from Gérard Houllier. The England international, who has been a regular in the Villa line-up since he joined from Blackburn Rovers in a £7m deal last August, is the latest senior player to be marginalised since Houllier took over as manager.
The 29-year-old left-back has failed to recapture the form that he showed during the first half of last season, when he was outstanding and earned a recall to the England set up, but it still came as a surprise that he was not even named among the substitutes at Chelsea. It is understood that Warnock learned he would not be needed at Stamford Bridge when he received a phone call from Kevin MacDonald, Villa's reserve-team manager.
Ciaran Clark, a central defender by trade, was picked ahead of Warnock and headed home an injury-time equaliser to earn Villa a point. It was initially thought that Clark was playing because Warnock was injured but Gary McAllister today confirmed that the former Liverpool and Blackburn defender had been dropped. "It's a football decision," Villa's assistant manager said. "His form, looking at the way we have been conceding goals."
Warnock, who won his second England cap against France at Wembley in November, has two-and-a-half years remaining on his contract at Villa. He is one of several players Houllier has spoken to about moving closer to Villa's training base – Warnock commutes from the North-west – although it now seems likely that he will be changing club rather than moving house. Houllier, who has been targeting a new left-back, is unlikely to stand in his way.
The Guardian - Clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/04/stephen-warnock-aston-villa)
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One of the biggest nosedives in form I've witnessed from a Villa player. Not even a temporary blip either, he's been dire for months.
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Where would he go in the north-west I wonder?
If Bolton continue to do well then that would be my prediction. How they're doing as well as they with a choice of either Samuel or Paul Robinson playing there is anybody's guess.
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Where would he go in the north-west I wonder?
If Bolton continue to do well then that would be my prediction. How they're doing as well as they with a choice of either Samuel or Paul Robinson playing there is anybody's guess.
Blackburn?
They've got something we want, by all accounts, and he's still well regarded up there. It could happen.
I struggle to remember ever seeing another player showing such extremes of form at Villa - fantastic to start with, then it was like a switch was flipped, and utterly dire since.
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Where would he go in the north-west I wonder?
If Bolton continue to do well then that would be my prediction. How they're doing as well as they with a choice of either Samuel or Paul Robinson playing there is anybody's guess.
Blackburn?
Maybe, but I think it's more likely that they'll just collapse under the weight of their own craziness. Any player with half a brain is probably going to think twice before going there anytime soon.
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The way Warnock has been defending lately I don't think he has even half a brain.
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Where would he go in the north-west I wonder?
If Bolton continue to do well then that would be my prediction. How they're doing as well as they with a choice of either Samuel or Paul Robinson playing there is anybody's guess.
Decent manager. Oh and Gary Cahill. ;)
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Where would he go in the north-west I wonder?
If Bolton continue to do well then that would be my prediction. How they're doing as well as they with a choice of either Samuel or Paul Robinson playing there is anybody's guess.
Decent manager. Oh and Gary Cahill. ;)
The two Bolton fans that I know say that this season it has been Cahill's partner who has been the better of the two.
Obviously not following them as closely one is less likely to see them, but I can't really remember a single balls up from Knight this season at all.
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The in-laws are staying at the moment (Bolton fans) and they're all convinced that Cahill will be off in the summer to a big 4 club for £20m. Knight's been good as well, but Cahill is young and getting better and better.
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I had assumed he was injured to not be named in the squad, he has gone from sublime to ridiculous, deserved dropping.
Another kick up the arse then
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The in-laws are staying at the moment (Bolton fans) and they're all convinced that Cahill will be off in the summer to a big 4 club for £20m. Knight's been good as well, but Cahill is young and getting better and better.
We've got a sell on fee haven't we?
Warnock might end up back at Liverpool... Hodgson wants British and Koncheskey is shit.
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The in-laws are staying at the moment (Bolton fans) and they're all convinced that Cahill will be off in the summer to a big 4 club for £20m. Knight's been good as well, but Cahill is young and getting better and better.
We've got a sell on fee haven't we?
Warnock might end up back at Liverpool... Hodgson wants British and Koncheskey is shit.
Liverpool aren't a big four club any more.
I'd expect someone like Cahill to opt for Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United, Man City (money) or even Spurs before looking at Liverpool, if indeed he did at all.
He's a quality player, and it was a big mistake to sell him.
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No, I don't think we so, do we?
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The in-laws are staying at the moment (Bolton fans) and they're all convinced that Cahill will be off in the summer to a big 4 club for £20m. Knight's been good as well, but Cahill is young and getting better and better.
We've got a sell on fee haven't we?
20% of anything above £5m apparently.
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I thought it was that too. But it might have been wishful thinking.
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Based on yesterdays game, he told the players to play like they did under MON. It was essentially, bar Clark, MON's team.
Hopefully a few performances like that will climb us out of trouble, and then GH can introduce a more passing style/ethic into the team towards the latter half of this season, ready for next season.
Not quite playing the MON way. MOTD had that graphic which clearly showed how we were better tactically than when we lost 7-1.
How about when we beat them at home then? Or beat Man Utd away? Or when we beat Arsenal? Liverpool? It was MON's team and they played like they would under him.
All GH has to do is slightly change the way MON's team played and we'll be all the better for it.
Rubbish, the only thing the team had in common with Oneil's team was 9 of the same players,
Houllier played and got the best out of heskey, Martin never
He dropped an out of form left back and gave Clark a go, Martin never
He played Ash in the middle because he is alot more mobile, Martin never
He played Gabby on the left, to stop them counter attacking, Martin never.
He brought back an out of favour player, Martin never let grudges go.
So don't give me crap like Houllier just played oneil's team. Yes we have been rubbish recently, but give Houllier abit of credit and now every one is fit let's give him a chance.
People forget how frustrating Martin was.
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I wasn't O'Neill's biggest fan, but I'm not going to take one game after several atrocious ones as proof that Houllier is a motivational genius.
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I thought it was that too. But it might have been wishful thinking.
I don't think anyone knows for sure, but the Bolton forum I looked at last time this question came up, most of the posters seemed pretty certain that it's there.
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we should offer them a deal to buy out the sell-on clause then or the c**nts will do some part exchange deal to get out of it. Its bad enough losing cahill and paying 12m for 2 rotten replacements without some arsenal/chelsea reserve player going the other way valued at 2 million
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The Guardian are reporting that Warnock found out he was dropped from the squad for the Chelsea game when he received a phone call from Kevin MacDonald. Now putting aside Warnock's form this season, I do find it strange that GH appears to have gone out of his way to isolate a player, even humiliate him. If we are to believe the rumours of an unsettled players in the squad, why is he trying to add another player to the list? Surely a word in the ear of Warnock explaining why he's being dropped and how he hopes he can refind the form of the first part of last season, giving him a break, etc.. would have been the sensible thing to do.
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Maybe he's bought into that old Liverpool thing Shankley (I think) used to do of not speaking to any player he'd dropped.
Yet another thing that, on the face of it, seems a bit strange. He did need a bloody good boot up the arse though so I hope he learns from it.
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It doesn't sound much different from how O'Neill operated, but I wasn't a fan of it then, and I'm not now. I haven't met many people who respond well to being treated like that to be honest.
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It was bad enough MON thinking he was the reincarnation of Brian Clough. If Houllier thinks he's the reincarnation of Skankly, we're in trouble.
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The Guardian are reporting that Warnock found out he was dropped from the squad for the Chelsea game when he received a phone call from Kevin MacDonald. Now putting aside Warnock's form this season, I do find it strange that GH appears to have gone out of his way to isolate a player, even humiliate him. If we are to believe the rumours of an unsettled players in the squad, why is he trying to add another player to the list? Surely a word in the ear of Warnock explaining why he's being dropped and how he hopes he can refind the form of the first part of last season, giving him a break, etc.. would have been the sensible thing to do.
It does seem a strange way to manage a player but in Warnock's case I'm not too bothered as he stands out as the one player we have who has upset me more than any this season and that's on far more than just one occasion.
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The Guardian are reporting that Warnock found out he was dropped from the squad for the Chelsea game when he received a phone call from Kevin MacDonald. Now putting aside Warnock's form this season, I do find it strange that GH appears to have gone out of his way to isolate a player, even humiliate him. If we are to believe the rumours of an unsettled players in the squad, why is he trying to add another player to the list? Surely a word in the ear of Warnock explaining why he's being dropped and how he hopes he can refind the form of the first part of last season, giving him a break, etc.. would have been the sensible thing to do.
It does seem a strange way to manage a player but in Warnock's case I'm not too bothered as he stands out as the one player we have who has upset me more than any this season and that's on far more than just one occasion.
Whatever problems Warnock has with his form, I think he always gives 100% and based on that alone, I think it's wrong to treat him in such a way. We've heard he's a right old moaner but for once he actually may have something to moan about. It wouldn't surprise me if he was used as part of the Samba deal with Blackburn.
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It wouldn't surprise me if he was used as part of the Simba deal with Blackburn.
I think he's a lion bastard.
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It wouldn't surprise me if he was used as part of the Simba deal with Blackburn.
I think he's a lion bastard.
Tell me about it. Thank god the kids are back at school.
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He wont be allowed to leave, he's their mane man.
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The Guardian are reporting that Warnock found out he was dropped from the squad for the Chelsea game when he received a phone call from Kevin MacDonald. Now putting aside Warnock's form this season, I do find it strange that GH appears to have gone out of his way to isolate a player, even humiliate him. If we are to believe the rumours of an unsettled players in the squad, why is he trying to add another player to the list? Surely a word in the ear of Warnock explaining why he's being dropped and how he hopes he can refind the form of the first part of last season, giving him a break, etc.. would have been the sensible thing to do.
It does seem a strange way to manage a player but in Warnock's case I'm not too bothered as he stands out as the one player we have who has upset me more than any this season and that's on far more than just one occasion.
I don't get 'upset' by him playing poorly. In truth he's an average fullback and we were probably expectig too much of him, which in fairness he delivered in his early days.
The closest I get to it is those that are taking the piss out of the club, such as Ireland and Carew.
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wrong thread :(
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Fuck off you useless wanker.
(Houllier that is, not you Tony - you aren't useless! ;) )
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I am seriously angry
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Go and go quickly.
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Enough is enough. Never mind diving on Paul Faulkner, Randy has got to show that he's still got the passion for Villa in ways that matter. Houllier has to be gone tomorrow.
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I really wanted to give him a chance but I fear enough is enough now. I don't know who to replace him with though and a quick appointment of Jol/fat sam may just be a knee-jerk reaction. Somethings gotta give soon or we will be well and truly sunk.
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unless he buys a new sqaud these guys dont want to play for him. i think i have seen enough, cant put a run together, and if the players know he only has 2 games left, then i think its tools down from them
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All he's done is cause problems and make us worse. HE MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!! and take heskey with him
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I wonder who'll be the first to berate me if I ask again for evidence that we won't be relegated?
Houllier's record is worse than Billy McNeill's at the same stage of his atrocious tenure FFS.
The deed needs to be done, done tomorrow and anyone with a bit of oomph who can lift the club needs to be appointed before the next league game.
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He will be out after Saturdays defeat at Sheff Utd. There is no other outcome......
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Maybe we are waiting for Woy to be free.
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Other than the odd flash in a pan (eg games against Man U and Chelsea, and even then games we drew that we were winning) there has been no sign whatsoever that he knows what he's doing. If Randy thinks things are bad now, wait until he becomes the first man to get us relegated from the Premier League.
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Fuck off you useless wanker.
(Houllier that is, not you Tony - you aren't useless! ;) )
Cheers Sub! Enjoy your day at the SCG- jammy git.
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Iwouldn't normally say get rid after only half a season in charge but Houllier is an exception. Carry on and we will be bottom.
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I just don't understand, why bring in a manager who's meant to improve us when all he's done is put us in the bottom 3?
The board didn't listen on who we wanted as manager - are they not going to listen to us again on wanting Houllier gone?
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I wonder who'll be the first to berate me if I ask again for evidence that we won't be relegated?
Houllier's record is worse than Billy McNeill's at the same stage of his atrocious tenure FFS.
The deed needs to be done, done tomorrow and anyone with a bit of oomph who can lift the club needs to be appointed before the next league game.
I don't much like Big Sam or his football, but he'd take no messing from the players and as caretaker manager until the end of the season would do better than the hopeless fool in charge at the moment.
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Martin Jol is just waiting to be taken - why aren't we taking him?
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I wonder who'll be the first to berate me if I ask again for evidence that we won't be relegated?
Houllier's record is worse than Billy McNeill's at the same stage of his atrocious tenure FFS.
The deed needs to be done, done tomorrow and anyone with a bit of oomph who can lift the club needs to be appointed before the next league game.
I don't much like Big Sam or his football, but he'd take no messing from the players and as caretaker manager until the end of the season would do better than the hopeless fool in charge at the moment.
Frankly, if I was Randy I'd be on the phone to Allardyce before someone from West Ham is.
Do I like his football? Of course not. But is anyone enjoying what the Villa are serving up at the moment?
He'd also get an immediate response from the players.
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Not Allardyce, as I said on the other thread it has to be someone else if Houllier goes. Allardyce's football makes it completely pointless even watching football.
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Gerard, close the door on your way out.
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Jol, now. I think he will have the lads up for a fight. We can review the situation in the summer. Right now we are sinking like a ship.
Wolves and the teams around us are picking up points. This club is in freefall, look at the attendances. Randy appointed the wrong manager.
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What "football" have we been playing under Houllier? Anything to stir the senses and make you think that good times are round the corner? Tonight was another atrocious display, with twenty odd million pounds of disaffected players not in the squad, players out of position and nobody with even the remotest idea what to do.
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I'd much prefer it if we could limp through until the close season and make any change then, even we were to end up not a million miles off the relegation places. As per DOL's last season, when we were never really in trouble (and even had designs on Europe in Feb) but the final league position looked ugly.
It soon became obvious that the appointment was a mistake, but there's a degree of logic to say lets not compound it with another rushed appointment.
Thing is flirting with relegation is one thing. That alone would be shite and enough to ease GH out. But if he stays we could actually go down. That's the chance we take.
To a certain extent he's been unlucky. The injuries, losing to B-lose in the cup with a weakened side (I'd guarantee if we were in the semis again we wouldn't be having these kind of threads, the confidence of the first team probably wouldn't have plummeted to the depths it has over the last month for one thing), even missing out on the Wigan match before a couple of tricky fixtures.
But if you can't always be good, be lucky.
He's neither, so Au Revoir.
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He has not got a clue!
Bury your head in the sand if you want but the reality is staring you in the face!
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Please go now!
Before it's too late
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He played the wrong team tonight - that's why we lost. One stratergy working against Chelsea doesn't really mean it's going to work against Sunderland.
It should of been:
Same defence
Coker - Petrov
Alrighton - Young - Downing
Agbonlahor
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what must the atmosphere be like in the changing room? the players know he has lost the plot.
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just siply putting Young on the wing and Gabby up front would have given us more shape, we could and should have introduced Bannan and albrighton in the second half
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I think sacking him now would probably bollocks things up even further. If he somehow steers us away from relegation and we survive I'd look to replace him at the start of next season though.
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GH, I don't wish you any harm, but please f*ck off tonight so I can wake up with a hint of optimism. Cheers.
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I think sacking him now would probably bollocks things up even further.
HOW? We're bottom three, and it's over halfway into the season in January. Why should we let this clueless imbecile buy any players?
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But the same side that did know, and played well on Sunday Martin.
It dawned on me tonight, for the first time, that we are as a team like a rotting piece of wood. Houllier is simply carrying the wood while the bits fall off and disintegrate. We were equally as bad as today at home MANY times last season under O'Neill, but got through with a draw in most cases, looked bereft of ideas many times, and generally have looked very poor for much of the past year.
We need a new heartbeat and a bit of attacking flair. Pronto. The manager needs players, fast, whoever the manager is, cause the ones we have are not up to it.
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He is mad!!! he has no idea, i can't believe this, this is a return to the mid 80's get someone in now who can save our season, get MON back Big Sam, someone who will kick ass and have a fucking clue, he has to go!!!
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I think sacking him now would probably bollocks things up even further. If he somehow steers us away from relegation and we survive I'd look to replace him at the start of next season though.
He's apprantley lost the dressing room, brought in a hugely unsucessful coach to help him out and the players don't know how to play for him or don't want to, he has to go
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the bloke is a fucking imbecile
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Back him and give him a load of cash as we need players in desperately or sack him and appoint a new manager this week! We cannot go weeks without a manager - tough call for randy but the lack of a football head on the board is worrying.
I would put him in charge of scouting as a kind of director of football and get martin jol in , but please not keV mac, that would be the final nail !
It's sad as I like houllier and can see what he's trying to do but these players are just not playing for him and we can't sack All the players !
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Legion, where's your fickle poster from the DOL days? Can you resurrect it, just with the 'we do not like you' bit.
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But the same side that did know, and played well on Sunday Martin.
It dawned on me tonight, for the first time, that we are as a team like a rotting piece of wood. Houllier is simply carrying the wood while the bits fall off and disintegrate. We were equally as bad as today at home MANY times last season under O'Neill, but got through with a draw in most cases, looked bereft of ideas many times, and generally have looked very poor for much of the past year.
We need a new heartbeat and a bit of attacking flair. Pronto. The manager needs players, fast, whoever the manager is, cause the ones we have are not up to it.
We've played well for maybe three games since he's been here. One half decent game every 6 games isn't going to keep us up Rich. Even Wolves beat Chelsea today to put Sunday's game into a bit of perspective.
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I've defended him lots recently, and said it would be folly to get rid of him, but unfortunately, tonight was the turning point for me.
That was the most inept, pathetic performance I have seen for years. We clearly are getting worse, Chelsea was a blip, not at all the norm.
I now think our chances of moving up the table will be better without him. The players clearly do not want to play for him - it was clear as day tonight - which is wrong, they shouldn't call the shots, but ultimately I'd rather not get relegated and have them force him out, if that is the choice we're looking at.
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Back him and give him a load of cash???? as we need players in desperately or sack him and appoint a new manager this week! We cannot go weeks without a manager - tough call for randy but the lack of a football head on the board is worrying.
I would put him in charge of scouting as a kind of director of football and get martin jol in , but please not keV mac, that would be the final nail !
It's sad as I like houllier and can see what he's trying to do but these players are just not playing for him and we can't sack All the players !
So he can bankrupt us as we go down? Open your eyes...we're in the bottom 3 for f*cks sake!!! McAllister & Houllier....f*ck off right now!
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I've defended him lots recently, and said it would be folly to get rid of him, but unfortunately, tonight was the turning point for me.
That was the most inept, pathetic performance I have seen for years. We clearly are getting worse, Chelsea was a blip, not at all the norm.
I now think our chances of moving up the table will be better without him. The players clearly do not want to play for him - it was clear as day tonight - which is wrong, they shouldn't call the shots, but ultimately I'd rather not get relegated and have them force him out, if that is the choice we're looking at.
Cheer up for fu.... ;)
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I dont think he has a clue, the set up of the team was so wrong yet he did nothing to change it,
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I think sacking him now would probably bollocks things up even further.
HOW? We're bottom three, and it's over halfway into the season in January. Why should we let this clueless imbecile buy any players?
I just doubt that we can replace him with someone good enough now. The list of interested parties when MON left was Houllier, Curbishley and Sven and now we're fucking rubbish and in the bottom three.
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I think sacking him now would probably bollocks things up even further. If he somehow steers us away from relegation and we survive I'd look to replace him at the start of next season though.
and if he doesn't/can't steer us away ?............................................................
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Playing Gabby out on the left and leaving him there even though he had one of his worse Villa performances ever sums up just how crap Houllier is at managing. He should have swapped him with Ashley Young after 20 minutes but he continued with that formation till Heskey was sent off. What a fuckin laugh!
Randy, grow some balls, sack Houllier and employ Martin Jol before it's too late!
We're going down if this man stays in charge.
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I posted on here before Chelski, that I couldnt decide if I wanted him out, or if we should give him a bit of a chance as, fair do's its not his team. I am now firmly in the camp that we need him gone. His tactics are piss poor. We are not playing better football than under DOL, let alone under MON. I dont trust him with any money. He is the man who signed players like Djimi Traore, Salif Diao, Bruno Cheyrou, Gregory Vignal, Igor Biscan. And people slag O'Neill off for wasting money! I have never liked him, I always thought when he was at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', he was negative and had them playing dull, unattractive football, which is why I was surprised that people thought we would be playing classy pass and move football when he came in?
And his team didnt win 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' the CL, Benitez bought Xabi Alonso in, and Luis Garcia, who scored massive goals in their run to the final.
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We are in freefall, was there really less than 33k there? Was there any anti-Ged chanting?
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The thing that worries me is the football tonight was as bad as anything we played under the previous manager.
I hoped under Houllier we would get more of a creative game to watch and make use of our skillfull ball players much more. Instead it seems the whole club are collective shitting themselves we're going to get relegated and there's no confidence out there, or even any idea on how to construct attacking moves.
We're freezing out some of the percieved slackers in Ireland, Carew and Warnock but the results aren't improving are they or even the style of play.
I think Houllier will be sacked if we don't win at SHA, I don't think a draw will save him.
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Iwouldn't normally say get rid after only half a season in charge but Houllier is an exception. Carry on and we will be bottom.
Utter Utter Rubbish and a disgrace to say that.
West Ham will be bottom, just below us on goal difference.
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If they are to grow the gonads to sack him they need to do it now, let us right off the FA Cup match and get prepared and up for the Blues game.
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He should go because we can not trust him with spending wisely in Jan.
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We are in freefall, was there really less than 33k there? Was there any anti-Ged chanting?
"Getting sacked in the morning" from the Holte.
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Off to bed.
He will be gone by the morning. :D
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If they are to grow the gonads to sack him they need to do it now, let us right off the FA Cup match and get prepared and up for the Blues game.
Unfortunately, and just to illustrate how far we've fallen under Ged, this could be our biggest game in years (bigger than the cup final even). We lsoe that, we could be saying 'bet against us?' for the wrong reasons.. Jees this is hard.
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We are in freefall, was there really less than 33k there? Was there any anti-Ged chanting?
Yep, a chorus of "You're getting sacked in the morning"
Hope springs eternal........
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He did a Martin Oneil, same tactics against too different teams, no subs.
Sunderland went for the win in our back yard, we did not.
I'm sorry but Houllier out before we waste another window.
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We can't wait until we've played Blues to get rid. The Cup weekend gives us a window. Randy needs to use the time.
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Just wondering who actually thinks he will be gone by sacking,resigning or any other reasons or will Randy stick with him?
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(http://www.taxfix.co.uk/forum/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/p45_example.gif)
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Has he gone yet?
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Against Sunderland, one of the most bizarre formation I have ever seen (yes, the same that against Chelsea, but in that occasion the goddes Fortune helped us leaving Super jmark unmarked in the last minute).
Four central defenders against an average team at home.
The awful pair Dunne & Collins in the starting XI.
Our best player Super Mark Albrighton on the bench.
Our second best player Barry Bannan on the bench.
Our best and only striker Gabby Agbonlahor played substantially as a full back.
How long do you, Mr GH, keep abusing our patience?
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He did a Martin Oneil, same tactics against too different teams, no subs.
Yes this is where I have lost faith in him today. FFS something that worked at Chelsea away is not going to work at home against Sunderland who came for a point.
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Course he will.
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Waht abpout answer "I hope not"
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No.
He won't survive not winning at SHA imo, I don't think even a draw will be good enough for him with Man. City at home looming after.
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No need for another Houllier topic to be honest.
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He did a Martin Oneil, same tactics against too different teams, no subs.
Yes this is where I have lost faith in him today. FFS something that worked at Chelsea away is not going to work at home against Sunderland who came for a point.
Same here I've backed Houllier till tonight,
HOULLIER OUT!!!!! Get Jol before it too late, it's abit funny how the general isn't around when the shit hits the fan.
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We are in freefall, was there really less than 33k there? Was there any anti-Ged chanting?
"Getting sacked in the morning" from the Holte.
Loud and clear so....
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There is no point randy sacking him in a months time- either sack him him now and replace him with jol or stick with him and sign 4 or 5 players-randy strikes me as a bit of a ditherer , doug was ruthless but I'm not sure randy will be.
I am appalled at the players who clearly lack effort and attitude and seem to me to be trying to get rid of the manager- some of these players are gutless and do not deserve the honour of wearing the villa shirt!
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He has to go and go now. Everything is just so piss poor on the pitch and I can't see i changing while Houllier is still i charge. The players' attitudes seemed to be all over the place and apart from Heskey nobody seemed to be able to do the basics right. Despite the good result at Chelsea things are getting worse and I expect to hear that he's been sacked by the morning. If not, the board are playing a very risky game.
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Against Sunderland, one of the most bizarre formation I have ever seen (yes, the same that against Chelsea, but in that occasion the goddes Fortune helped us leaving Super jmark unmarked in the last minute).
Four central defenders against an average team at home.
The awful pair Dunne & Collins in the starting XI.
Our best player Super Mark Albrighton on the bench.
Our second best player Barry Bannan on the bench.
Our best and only striker Gabby Agbonlahor played substantially as a right back.
How long do you, Mr GH, keep abusing our patience?
Add Ashley Young taking free kicks in his own half on numerous occasions.
Houllier has to go.
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Legion, where's your fickle poster from the DOL days? Can you resurrect it, just with the 'we do not like you' bit.
That was Leighton. I did the website.
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Has Houllier said anything, I can't find anything.
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Please just go.
Give him more time/ transfer funds/ his own players. Absolute bollocks. He's done fuck all to show that he's a half decent manager or coach.
Get out of our club before you ruin it.
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Faulkner stated this morning that Houllier will definetly be the manager until the Summer, IF that is the case then god help us!!
Mind you I also blame our over paid bunch of pansies who look like they could not careless, because if we did go down they would all want out, AND WOULD HAVE TO GO and they would not give a shit about our club.
The 11 tonight were an embarrassment to the shirt!
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Has Houllier said anything, I can't find anything.
BBC website in the match report. As uninspiring and gutless as you'd imagine. "If we'd won 1-0 the fans' reaction would have been different."
No shit Sherlock. And if we had 30 more points we'd be top of the league.
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Changed my FB status to 'Lost: One big-ass fucking clue. If found, please return to Mr G Houllier, Villa Park, Birmingham B6 6HE.'
Chants of 'Out, out' from North Stand Lower at the final whistle. Surprised it took us that long TBH.
If he's not gone by the morning, I'll be flabbergasted.
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GOT TO GO!!
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
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I'm really fuming guys, I was really angry/upset when we started singing 'your getting sacked in the morning' but we have too do something.
Totally clueless, Randy if your reading grow a pair and admit you've fucked up and have been since you let Martin loose with a cheque book.
Now is the time to get a new manager.
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Who?
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Who the fuck are the 7 that still want him as the manager of Aston Villa?
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http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-0-1-Sunderland-Emile-Heskey-horror-miss-puts-Gerard-Houllier-in-trouble-after-Phil-Bardsley-winner-article665315.html
Turning on a player as per usual, 'Emile missed a sitter'. As I keep saying Fergie has proved that defending your players or at least not being critical of them them is the way to go
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Martin Jol is free and proven, We need a real man manager, Who knows the league.
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Has Houllier said anything, I can't find anything.
BBC website in the match report. As uninspiring and gutless as you'd imagine. "If we'd won 1-0 the fans' reaction would have been different."
No shit Sherlock. And if we had 30 more points we'd be top of the league.
It's not like we deserved to win and the result went against us. We were just poor. So his comment really makes no sense.
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The chance itself was easier to score than miss but the loss is nowhere near attached solely to Heskey. In fact I don't think there was a single person I spoke to that didn't think he was the man of the match, and he only completed two thirds of it.
I was standing there tonight, as we carved their back four open in the first half, saying 'This lot are shit, and I bet we lose 1-0 to them as well.' Lo and behold, it was exactly what happened because in 90 minutes we only put about 5 minutes graft in.
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Who the fuck are the 7 that still want him as the manager of Aston Villa?
7 fans that are entitled to an opinion.
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Andy Pandy would be a better choice of Manager than this clown, why let him waste money and still take us down?
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Faulkner stated this morning that Houllier will definetly be the manager until the Summer,
If that is the case then maybe he should go with him
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Faulkner stated this morning that Houllier will definetly be the manager until the Summer,
If that is the case then maybe he should go with him
I think Faulkner's comments are completely counterproductive. Yes, support the manager but I don't think anybody is ever convinced by a 'vote of confidence' like this and when he gets the boot (which he will do, I'm sure of it) it just makes the board look stupid. Houllier's position was pretty much untenable before tonight's debacle and if these comments had to be spoken they should have been for Houllier and him alone.
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Who the fuck are the 7 that still want him as the manager of Aston Villa?
7 fans that are entitled to an opinion.
Of course, I'm not having a go, I just would love their optimism right now.
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It's 8 now!
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Well...I am not one of the 7 who want him to stay...but I did say that I would have preferred Allardyce to Houllier when he was appointed and the abuse that any pro Allardyce posts got suggested that an opinion of that kind was not entitled!!!
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Faulkner stated this morning that Houllier will definetly be the manager until the Summer, IF that is the case then god help us!!
Did he? I heard someone mentioning about Houllier current status as manager but it would be awful to hear him say it. Will he still be the manager if we get relegated? No... so why don't you just fire him now to save us looking like buffoons?
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They're in a very sticky position now.
Sack him now, three weeks of transfer window left, but they'd have to be on the phone to potential replacements NOW - right now - to make it work. I can't see them being that proactive.
Back him, and you have to give him money to spend, absolutely have to, and quite a lot of it.
Back him, give him money to spend or not, and we lose at home to Man City (which we will), we get knocked out the FAC (which we will) and we lose to Blues (which we will) and his position is absolutely untenable, and we're rooted at the bottom of the table, so for all the support of backing him, we're still stuck at the bottom of the table.
I feel for them, it is really awful timing, and this season has been an utter disaster right from the off, but what we need now is determined, calculated, strong leadership. We need it now, though, not after a few weeks of prevaricating, because on the evidence of tonight, it is not only getting worse, it is actually starting to look very much like it will never get better.
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It's 8 now!
8 short sighted noses by any chance!
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Well...I am not one of the 7 who want him to stay...but I did say that I would have preferred Allardyce to Houllier when he was appointed and the abuse that any pro Allardyce posts got suggested that an opinion of that kind was not entitled!!!
I agree with you, he will keep us up and get the lads playing
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Right, I'm off to bed now but feel an overwhelming urge to tell Houllier to fuck right off before I do.
So...........Houllier FUCK RIGHT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!
That's better.
Goodnight.
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They're in a very sticky position now.
Sack him now, three weeks of transfer window left, but they'd have to be on the phone to potential replacements NOW - right now - to make it work. I can't see them being that proactive.
Back him, and you have to give him money to spend, absolutely have to, and quite a lot of it.
Back him, give him money to spend or not, and we lose at home to Man City (which we will), we get knocked out the FAC (which we will) and we lose to Blues (which we will) and his position is absolutely untenable, and we're rooted at the bottom of the table, so for all the support of backing him, we're still stuck at the bottom of the table.
I feel for them, it is really awful timing, and this season has been an utter disaster right from the off, but what we need now is determined, calculated, strong leadership. We need it now, though, not after a few weeks of prevaricating, because on the evidence of tonight, it is not only getting worse, it is actually starting to look very much like it will never get better.
This is very much beyond a 'bad run of form'. The club is falling apart in all sorts of ways and I really don't know what would be the best outcome. I really wouldn't like to see us get relegated but there's a probability that should we survive, it'll just paper over some Grand Canyon-sized cracks anyway.
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It's 8 now!
8 short sighted noses by any chance!
No, more probably 8 better-informed and more articulate Villa fans.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
Not really though. We all acknowledge it was a great result, but what was the point of getting that result then following it up losing to fuking Sunderland at home? One step foward 2 steps back.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
Sounded to me like most of the ones who went to the game agreed. The Chelsea game was a blip. No manager has ever gone a season without winning a game so there will always be things to cheer, but our overall trajectory this season is towards the Championship.
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I've changed my vote he has to go. If I was Randy, I woukd do everything to patch up with MON get him back in, we cannot be relegated.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
I think the thing tonight showed, emphatically, was that Chelsea was very much a blip in what is otherwise a consistent, downward trajectory.
Tonight was truly, truly fucking horrible. Heskey's sending off had nothing to do with it, we were rubbish from start to finish. Not only that, but we had zero organisation, absolutely nothing.
I like GH as a personality, I thought he was a good appointment, I see why they gave him the job, but there is something very, very wrong at the club at the moment, and we're running out of time to fix it.
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I've changed my vote he has to go. If I was Randy, I woukd do everything to patch up with MON get him back in, we cannot be relegated.
MO'N back will not happen, but if it ever did they can have my season ticket back.
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I supported MON for most of his time here. But he fucked off on us. No man is bigger than Aston Villa, and as good as it might seem in some respects on the surface, I wouldn't want him back at all. It's done, he's gone. Get over it.
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They're in a very sticky position now.
Sack him now, three weeks of transfer window left, but they'd have to be on the phone to potential replacements NOW - right now - to make it work. I can't see them being that proactive.
Back him, and you have to give him money to spend, absolutely have to, and quite a lot of it.
Back him, give him money to spend or not, and we lose at home to Man City (which we will), we get knocked out the FAC (which we will) and we lose to Blues (which we will) and his position is absolutely untenable, and we're rooted at the bottom of the table, so for all the support of backing him, we're still stuck at the bottom of the table.
I feel for them, it is really awful timing, and this season has been an utter disaster right from the off, but what we need now is determined, calculated, strong leadership. We need it now, though, not after a few weeks of prevaricating, because on the evidence of tonight, it is not only getting worse, it is actually starting to look very much like it will never get better.
Spot on that, I was unsuccessfull trying to say much the same on another thread but rather less lucidly.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
I think the thing tonight showed, emphatically, was that Chelsea was very much a blip in what is otherwise a consistent, downward trajectory.
Tonight was truly, truly fucking horrible. Heskey's sending off had nothing to do with it, we were rubbish from start to finish. Not only that, but we had zero organisation, absolutely nothing.
I like GH as a personality, I thought he was a good appointment, I see why they gave him the job, but there is something very, very wrong at the club at the moment, and we're running out of time to fix it.
Paulie, I agree with most of it. BUT I still want to see him have 4-5 of his own players in the team to see what happens, as our central midfield, senior and youngsters, are just complete garbage and MON got lucky with Barry and Milner saving his bacon there as they were so much better than the rest. Take our 2 out for the Sunderland 2 tonight and it would have made a huge difference.
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Right now feels like being at a roulette table. You've bought your chips, but with every spin you're losing a little bit more. Do you stick with it hoping for your luck to turn knowing full well it might not? Or do cut your losses and move to another table?
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The latter.
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89% of people want him gone on here, 95% of people on Villatalk do. The fans have made their feelings known.
Some of the fans have.
The ones who can be arsed to vote in a poll. The ones who want to come online and vent their feelings. What a difference from the post-Chelsea reaction.
I think the thing tonight showed, emphatically, was that Chelsea was very much a blip in what is otherwise a consistent, downward trajectory.
Tonight was truly, truly fucking horrible. Heskey's sending off had nothing to do with it, we were rubbish from start to finish. Not only that, but we had zero organisation, absolutely nothing.
I like GH as a personality, I thought he was a good appointment, I see why they gave him the job, but there is something very, very wrong at the club at the moment, and we're running out of time to fix it.
Paulie, I agree with most of it. BUT I still want to see him have 4-5 of his own players in the team to see what happens, as our central midfield, senior and youngsters, are just complete garbage and MON got lucky with Barry and Milner saving his bacon there as they were so much better than the rest. Take our 2 out for the Sunderland 2 tonight and it would have made a huge difference.
I agree, Ozz, I would like that too, but the thing that slowly dawned on me watching tonight unfold was that he's almost certainly not going to get that luxury.
We are so poor, so short of points, and on such a downward trajectory, that matters are going to get taken out of his hands.
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Right now feels like being at a roulette table. You've bought your chips, but with every spin you're losing a little bit more. Do you stick with it hoping for your luck to turn knowing full well it might not? Or do cut your losses and move to another table?
That's exactly what it is.
My issue is that I work in the gambling industry, and know that chasing your losses usually ends in a very bad place.
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This might be a complete cop out, but I'll support the board on whatever they do on this one. I'm still in the give GH time camp (just) but the sands of time are really moving. If he ends up being fired and the right man hired, maybe it will give the club enough of a lift to see us to safety or better.
The big fear I have as a side note is to ask what role have the players played in all of this? It's an incredibly dangerous precedent to have set if this demise, has been in any way, manufactured.
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Right now feels like being at a roulette table. You've bought your chips, but with every spin you're losing a little bit more. Do you stick with it hoping for your luck to turn knowing full well it might not? Or do cut your losses and move to another table?
That's exactly what it is.
My issue is that I work in the gambling industry, and know that chasing your losses usually ends in a very bad place.
For the first time tonight, I'm feeling a little scared. It's not mid-March, so there's still a decent of time and games to change things. But this weeks results could not have been any worse had we written them all out ourselves. We're in quite a bit of bother. The next 48 hours will be massive for this club. An early exit from the FA Cup against a very poor Sheff Utd team will be the final straw in my opinon.
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I don't believe it's the right time to change manager, I think he needs time to put his team together.
What's happening at the moment shows us that MON was a good motivator of shit players that he bought.
Houllier needs to be backed in this window, we'll stay up, I have no doubt and he will turn it around, we've seen how well we can play, we need to do it consistently.
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Right now feels like being at a roulette table. You've bought your chips, but with every spin you're losing a little bit more. Do you stick with it hoping for your luck to turn knowing full well it might not? Or do cut your losses and move to another table?
I work in financial services where if you performed as poorly as Houllier you'd have been fired ages ago. (unless you're N investment banker in which case you'd be given a seven figure bonus and a big pension)
That's exactly what it is.
My issue is that I work in the gambling industry, and know that chasing your losses usually ends in a very bad place.
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If he does go Jol is not the right man of that I am totally sure. The board have a huge 3 weeks in Jan now. If I was Randy I would be saying name the players in each position you need to get us out of this, and I would go and get em at all costs.
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If he does go Jol is not the right man of that I am totally sure. The board have a huge 3 weeks in Jan now. If I was Randy I would be saying name the players in each position you need to get us out of this, and I would go and get em at all costs.
They don't have three weeks, though, that's the point.
If we're going to back GH and get in his targets, we need them in *now*, right now, no fucking around.
There might be some room for debate than we can move forward with this manager, but I can't believe anyone thinks we're going to do so with this manager AND this squad as it is now.
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I don't believe it's the right time to change manager, I think he needs time to put his team together.
What's happening at the moment shows us that MON was a good motivator of shit players that he bought.
Houllier needs to be backed in this window, we'll stay up, I have no doubt and he will turn it around, we've seen how well we can play, we need to do it consistently.
I'm still in this camp (though my strength is waning). I agree that he needs a chance to have at least one window with a few players that in HIS opinion will make a difference. If the message isn't getting through to the incumbent players, maybe they need to move on or be dropped.
The other thing of note is this slide in offensive firepower didn't just start now. It's been happening over 3 years now. Houllier is sitting in the eye of the storm of a defence that is conceding, and even when they don't the team has run out of goals.
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If he does go Jol is not the right man of that I am totally sure. The board have a huge 3 weeks in Jan now. If I was Randy I would be saying name the players in each position you need to get us out of this, and I would go and get em at all costs.
They don't have three weeks, though, that's the point.
If we're going to back GH and get in his targets, we need them in *now*, right now, no fucking around.
There might be some room for debate than we can move forward with this manager, but I can't believe anyone thinks we're going to do so with this manager AND this squad as it is now.
They don't to appoint someone new and buy, that is why I am saying they have three weeks to get 4-5 of GH players in, ideally with a couple by next week.
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I don't believe it's the right time to change manager, I think he needs time to put his team together.
What's happening at the moment shows us that MON was a good motivator of shit players that he bought.
Houllier needs to be backed in this window, we'll stay up, I have no doubt and he will turn it around, we've seen how well we can play, we need to do it consistently.
You're putting an awful lot of faith in two draws (not even wins) against an injury hit Man U and a Chelsea side who have lost to Blues and Wolves. Most sides who go down have one or two decent performances a season, Burnley beat Man U last year, Portsmouth walloped Spurs in the cup semi. We just get worse and worse as time goes on. I can't see anything that suggests Hollier will turn it round, nothing whatsoever, he's been a disaster from start to finish.
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Bloody hell Risso, I bet you never even canvassed this hard for the Tories at the last election. You're everywhere tonight, fella. (winky)
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Like a dog with a bone.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
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Our football was abysmal to watch tonight.
What I expected when Houllier came in was to make use of our more skillfull players and get us playing a better passing game.
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Our football was abysmal to watch tonight.
What I expected when Houllier came in was to make use of our more skillfull players and get us playing a better passing game.
I'm beginning to think that you can count our skillful players on one hand.
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I was most definitely one of those who was pleased with the initial appointment of Houllier but frustrated that the first half of the season was ravaged by injuries to players. I have continuously said give him more time to allow him to inbed a more continental style of play and get everyone back.
However, having been at the game tonight. He has to go. He played four centre backs at home against a weakened Sunderland team and two defensive midfielders. On top of that, he played a striker on the left wing (at least play him on the right if you have to stick him there, especially given that downing is useless on the right) downing on the right when he quite obviously isnt comfortable there and young up front. I thought the ashley experiment up top might work but not at the expense of the balance of the team and not when he plays out and out up front. He no longer roams the park going from wing to wing to avoid being double marked and allow him the licence to whip in crosses from either flank. Instead he is stuck up front doing sweet fa. The two in the middle were devoid of ideas and Stan was so far off the pace it was almost funny...if not so scary. I just pray he was unfit/injured.
Admittedly, Heskey cost us the game; he scores we get at least a point, he doesnt get sent off, we probably still get a point but he was the only player who looked like he wanted. He moved off the ball well, held it up and ran the ragged. The rest of the team, while they worked hard enough looked unbalanced and disorganised. They ambled around the pitch, rather than moving in quick, short bursts in an effort to free up space. We looked as if we couldn't pass the ball to save our life.
However, the worst bit of it all was our supposedly tactically astute manager sat by and watched a second half performance which was one of the worst I have ever seen. He had bannan and albrighton warming up from around 55 and yet didnt bring them on when their energy could have provided the spark we needed. Im completely against playing just kids but they have showed they are good enough and a smattering of them could be the invigoration we need; they certainly looked livelier when they eventually came on in the 87th minute. Still more depressing was Houllier's tactic on how to break a team down. Put your best attacking player at full back, your big burly defenders up top and shell it to them. This is not English rugby, this is the Villa and it had the tactical imagination of a battering ram only with the strength of a wet fart.
I'm afraid Mr Houllier, this fan has ran out of patience, you should stick to roles behind the scenes, you simply aren't cut out for being a manager any more and the Villa players would seem to agree with me on that.
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As the hours go on my feeling is he's got to go.
We're gonna go down under him. Well OK, that's not guarenteed but does anyone really see us getting 6 wins from our next 17 games with him? He provided 2 from his first 17 games.
Birmingham A,
Wigan A,
Fulham H,
Blackpool A,
Blackburn H,
Wolves H,
Newcastle H,
West Ham A,
Stoke H,
West Brom A,
Wigan H,
Liverpool H.
Are all remaining fixtures I'd fancy us to get something from.
There should be six wins there.
Give KMac the job, he can get us playing how we're used to under O'Neill and we'll get six wins (atleast) from those fixtures. It won't be pretty, we won't be pulling up trees, but we'll stay up and as soon as that's guarenteed we can start looking for a successor (be it Coyle, Moyes, Hughes, Hodgson - who all could be gettable by then for a club of our size, our resources and very much a blank canvas to work from).
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At the start of December I said bottom 3 by the New year and sadly I wasn't proved wrong.
Despite how close it is at the bottom, given the first half of the season, I can't see us getting out.
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What is happening now is exactly what I thought would happen and said would happen on the day we appointed him. He is yesterday's man, a spent force. He is the managerial equivalent of Basil Fawlty's Norwgian Blue parrot.
It all began with the short list of candidates we put together. It was - with the honourable exception of KM piss poor and second rate. As we watched Carew blaze a penalty over the bar and the goals pour in at Newcastle we knew that was KM's chance gone and that a prick of a manager would get the job.
When O'Neill flounced out we should have done one of two things. We should have bitten on the bullet and made a top flight manager and his club an offer they could not refuse and got the best money could buy or we should have given KM a longer holding role until the right man became available. Instead we fell right through the gap in between those two options. We got an old man resting on past achievements living in the comfort zone and unaware or oblivious to what he was letting himself in for. He has gone full circle and has become a schoolteacher again.
He provided more evidence if more is needed of his being out of touch with premiership level football and the fans in his statement after the game. He said and I quote "it is very frustrating for the fans". No it isn't frustrating you silly old fool. It is pure unadulterated unbearable agony. Under any circumstance for fans to see the team they love humiliated week after week is more than flesh and blood can bear but to go from the new dawn of the club under the ownership of Randy Lerner and the spending of huge sums of money on players to being in accelerating freefall after challenging for top four for three seasons should not be summed up as "frustrating". Just in case the point he was making for us to stop being silly billys was lost on us he went on to say if we had won we would be chanting his name. No we would not and to claim it is as blatant and premeditated an insult to our intelligence as the Anfiled love in was.
If the comments had come from a foreign manager with little command of english - Capello for example, the choice of words would not have been so informative but his english is perfect.
This is not a cheap shot about his health but it is clear that Houllier has no heart. The game to him now is all in his head in his reversion to school teacher mode. Football and Aston Villa and football fans exist only in his brain like the names of mountains and rivers do in a geography teacher's head.
If we act quickly and get somebody in to pull the team back into a unit - even if that means booting Houllier upstairs for the rest of his contract - we may just survive. If we delay or if we allow Houllier and his assistant to continue to command the dressing room, the dug out and the training ground w are done for.
I am not frustrated Monsieur Houllier. I am dying game by game.
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I did type a huge post to my thoughts on Houllier, but decided to just say "what a fucking mess!!!" as it summed it all up perfectly.
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Would it be frowned upon if I typed "told you so" while folding my arms and tutting disdainfully?
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I would rather houllier than kmac anyday- if randy had the balls to do it then I would go for owen coyle and make an offer he can't refuse but I don't think randy will approach a man in work- therefore we are looking at Sam or jol if we change now- please randy not kmac!
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KMac & Sid as "night watchmen" until the summer, then appoint a new long term manager
Or just get Jol now
What is clear is that Houllier & McAllister are inept and MUST go now or we're down
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Would it be frowned upon if I typed "told you so" while folding my arms and tutting disdainfully?
Do it...
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KMac as a short term Manager - no thanks, if the players are walking all over Houllier they will eat MacDonald for breakfast!!
I would be amazed if they got rid of Houllier after the comments from Faulkner yesterday, BUT I wouuld not be surprised if Lerner decided that the only players to be brought in would be on Loans for the rest of the season!!
If we survive then Lerner will need to look at the whole structure of the Club including Faulkners position a massive step forward for the club would be to replace him with David Dein (ex Arsenal) someone who actually knows the industry and is not just a YES man to Lerner!!
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As the hours go on my feeling is he's got to go.
We're gonna go down under him. Well OK, that's not guarenteed but does anyone really see us getting 6 wins from our next 17 games with him? He provided 2 from his first 17 games.
Birmingham A,
Wigan A,
Fulham H,
Blackpool A,
Blackburn H,
Wolves H,
Newcastle H,
West Ham A,
Stoke H,
West Brom A,
Wigan H,
Liverpool H.
Are all remaining fixtures I'd fancy us to get something from.
There should be six wins there.
Give KMac the job, he can get us playing how we're used to under O'Neill and we'll get six wins (atleast) from those fixtures. It won't be pretty, we won't be pulling up trees, but we'll stay up and as soon as that's guarenteed we can start looking for a successor (be it Coyle, Moyes, Hughes, Hodgson - who all could be gettable by then for a club of our size, our resources and very much a blank canvas to work from).
The thing is, as the results are proving our staying up also depends on what those around us are doing.
Wolves beating chelsea and results like that could see us end up relegated even if we do put a string of results together
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15 to go ,
http://astonvilla-views.com/2011/01/05/rumour-houllier-in-9am-meeting-with-lerner-avfc-houllierout/
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I was prepared and quite optamistic at the Houllier revolution when he was appointed, but as each week goes by I'm losing the faith faster than teh previous week. I cannot see a way out of this with Houllier in the driving seat. I'm not usually one for knee-jerk reactions and short term solutions, but we're in a real mess now and I can't see us getting out of it. We need to change it before we get relegated. Because at this rate we will.
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Get Steve stride back at the club as Faulkner seems to have no experience of football and we are sinking without trace- things are not right from the top downwards and the players are a disgrace for the attitude shown under houllier- they are paid good wages and should show some pride in the shirt- shocking state of affairs !
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KMac is not the long term solution and never was but he has four massive things in his favour first he is not Gerard Houllier, second he is known, trusted and liked by the players especially the ones he and Sid have brought on and who have tried so hard for us,third he knows how the squad likes to play and four he can do no worse than Houllier.
Randy is not going to trust Houllier with a substantial amount of money under the present circumstances. I would not trust him to buy me a copy of Racing Post because he would come back with a copy of the Christian Science Monitor. You don't get to be as rich as the Lerners by being daft with money and giving millions to a man to spend whose confidence and judgement levels are plain to see by the expression on his face during Villa games would be plain daft. Nobody in their right mind would trust him not to do a MON and piss it all up the wall.
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I thought randy was so rich because he inherited his fathers estate? I don't think he is a self made millionaire like ellis was .
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KMac is not the long term solution and never was but he has four massive things in his favour first he is not Gerard Houllier, second he is known, trusted and liked by the players especially the ones he and Sid have brought on and who have tried so hard for us,third he knows how the squad likes to play and four he can do no worse than Houllier.
Randy is not going to trust Houllier with a substantial amount of money under the present circumstances. I would not trust him to buy me a copy of Racing Post because he would come back with a copy of the Christian Science Monitor. You don't get to be as rich as the Lerners by being daft with money and giving millions to a man to spend whose confidence and judgement levels are plain to see by the expression on his face during Villa games would be plain daft. Nobody in their right mind would trust him not to do a MON and piss it all up the wall.
Brian, that is as much a gamble as leaving Houllier in charge. We can't afford to let this window pass without adding two or three first team players to this squad, and we shouldn't forget that we often looked a disorganised shambles under MacDonald aswell.
The club need to hold their nerve unless Lerner has had contigency plans in place for the last few weeks and can move very quickly.
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I said something along the lines of it was disgraceful (maybe slightly over the top) to have appointed him in the first place. I still think that and we should get rid ASAP.
The guy is an idiot.
Does he do anything other than sit there looking cold?
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
So do I Risso but with the current shambles envelping the Club would Allardyce, Jol are Houghton really be prepared to take the Villa job but only until the Summer. There's not a chance they would imo.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
So do I Risso but with the current shambles envelping the Club would Allardyce, Jol are Houghton really be prepared to take the Villa job but only until the Summer. There's not a chance they would imo.
Jol or Allardyce wouldnt, but Chris Hughton might. If he was given the job til the end of the season with a view to getting the job permanently if he did well would work out for all concerned.
We would get a manager who clearly can bring out the best in people til the end of the season and thereby, hopefully, stay up. We would also be in a position in the summer to assess who else was available and weigh them up against whatever job Hughton did.
From his point of view, it will be an opportunity to prove himself at as big a club as he could hope for at the moment.
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East that is why I said Lerners not Randy Lerner. He did inherit the money and has used it well but most importantly his father must have taught him the value of a dollar and not to fritter the family fortune away. As for Uncle Doug the biggest financial killing he ever made was selling us the shares in Villa. What did we pay? Was it eleven quid? The cheque I got for my shares was so derisory it remains pinned on my study wall. My son never bothered to open the envelope with his in.
As for my point about KMac I agree that we did look shambolic at times during the handful of games he took charge of but at least with Kevin you knew he was learning the ropes and his managerial skills would improve. As for this incumbent he was supposed to be the finished article and as has been posted many times in the Houllier thread he has shown us nothing whatsoever and blundered from one catastophic cock up to another. Oh, and we paid twelve million for the man from Allo Allo.
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Hughton was jols assistant at spurs- offer jol the job with hughton as number2 on a 3 yr contract and we might be in business but randy is far too much of a ditherer to do something like that.
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My biggest fear is that regardless of performances and results, the board are going to stick with Houllier & McAllister even if it means going down
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The more this season goes on the more I cant help seeing the similarities between us and Newcastle when they went down.
Houllier and Joe Kinnear both past their sell by date. However, the squads are similar in that they should be far too good to go down.
Throw in the fact that there isnt the customary bottom of the table for the season team a la Derby, Watford, Pompey etc. this season, means that there are 3 relegation positions very much up for grabs.
Also all of the teams around us seem to be able to get the odd very good win, like Wolves last night, whereas the only 2 good results that stand out under GH are draws V Man Utd and Chelsea. When you consider how bad both teams were when we played them, perhaps we even got a little too carried away by those results.
Getting very worried...especially as we arent even being linked with players where we would have to spend some money.
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Take your points brian but we can't afford to have a manager who is learning like kmac- we need someone to come in now with experience but also a man manager- I d go for jol with hughton as his number 2 like at spurs but I do think big Sam would keep us up , just wouldn't be nice to watch- jols teams play good football .
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I might not want Allardyce, but I want us to be in the Premier League next season, and Allardyce would give us more chance of that than Houllier.
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I don't think allardyce would come on a 4 month contract though- he would surely want at least 2 years.
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as would I.
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Never thought i'd say this but in the current situation the answer is Allardyce. My god did I just say that?
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Hodgson might become available but I think we need a quick fix and Allardyce would keep us up - then get someone decent in for next year. This is incredibly depressing. Unfortunately I just can't see Randy pulling the trigger.
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Allardyce is certainly NOT the answer
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Allardyce is definitely not the right man. Hodgson will be available before the SHA match.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
I'm trying to think of what would be worse, having that fat twat as manager or being in the Championship. I certainly don't want to watch that type of football every week.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
On reflection that does sound a bit arsey, apologies. Still you do want him and I think that would be a mistake, he'd want £20m to bring in more players who may not be wanted by the bloke we appoint in the summer.
I think Kmac can get 20-25 points out of this team despite taking some drubbings on the way, and then we can have a clear out of the treacherous fuckers in the summer.
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I think kmac would have no chance of keeping us up, houllier has a slim chance with these players-randy must be concerned that the gates are dropping fast and the fans will stay away when such abysmal displays are given.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
I'm trying to think of what would be worse, having that fat twat as manager or being in the Championship. I certainly don't want to watch that type of football every week.
Relegation would be an absolute fucking disaster, a humiliating one at that.
However, I'd rather go down than have Allardyce inflicted on us with his gut wrenchingly horrible brand of "football".
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Just to look at a quick fact on GH's games in charge:
Villa have failed to win 82% of the games GH has been in charge of.
not good
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Just to look at a quick fact on GH's games in charge:
Villa have failed to win 82% of the games GH has been in charge of.
not good
Villadawg, please look at the site rules, you are not allowed to sign on here with two different names.
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I win:
Seeing as no one else has claimed it, may I be the first one to say "Houllier Out!"
H&V's standards have definitely slipped.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=40168.msg1579421#msg1579421
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Unless the question is 'who can help Dunne eat these pies?' then Allardyce is definitely not the answer.
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Unless the question is 'who can help Dunne eat these pies?' then Allardyce is definitely not the answer.
Is the correct answer.
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I think you are lucky today regarding G.H., as the ssn wankfest will be all over chelsea and liverpool regarding there useless managers as well...think you will get away with it with the media......also ssn now saying g.h. job is safe on the yellow ticker thingy at bottom of screen...
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What is happening now is exactly what I thought would happen and said would happen on the day we appointed him. He is yesterday's man, a spent force. He is the managerial equivalent of Basil Fawlty's Norwgian Blue parrot.
It all began with the short list of candidates we put together. It was - with the honourable exception of KM piss poor and second rate. As we watched Carew blaze a penalty over the bar and the goals pour in at Newcastle we knew that was KM's chance gone and that a prick of a manager would get the job.
When O'Neill flounced out we should have done one of two things. We should have bitten on the bullet and made a top flight manager and his club an offer they could not refuse and got the best money could buy or we should have given KM a longer holding role until the right man became available. Instead we fell right through the gap in between those two options. We got an old man resting on past achievements living in the comfort zone and unaware or oblivious to what he was letting himself in for. He has gone full circle and has become a schoolteacher again.
He provided more evidence if more is needed of his being out of touch with premiership level football and the fans in his statement after the game. He said and I quote "it is very frustrating for the fans". No it isn't frustrating you silly old fool. It is pure unadulterated unbearable agony. Under any circumstance for fans to see the team they love humiliated week after week is more than flesh and blood can bear but to go from the new dawn of the club under the ownership of Randy Lerner and the spending of huge sums of money on players to being in accelerating freefall after challenging for top four for three seasons should not be summed up as "frustrating". Just in case the point he was making for us to stop being silly billys was lost on us he went on to say if we had won we would be chanting his name. No we would not and to claim it is as blatant and premeditated an insult to our intelligence as the Anfiled love in was.
If the comments had come from a foreign manager with little command of english - Capello for example, the choice of words would not have been so informative but his english is perfect.
This is not a cheap shot about his health but it is clear that Houllier has no heart. The game to him now is all in his head in his reversion to school teacher mode. Football and Aston Villa and football fans exist only in his brain like the names of mountains and rivers do in a geography teacher's head.
If we act quickly and get somebody in to pull the team back into a unit - even if that means booting Houllier upstairs for the rest of his contract - we may just survive. If we delay or if we allow Houllier and his assistant to continue to command the dressing room, the dug out and the training ground w are done for.
I am not frustrated Monsieur Houllier. I am dying game by game.
Good words.
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"Villa have told us Gerard Houllier's job is safe" - SSN
Pile o shite
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Vote of Confidence, dear oh dear, just get rid Randy NOW
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Just to look at a quick fact on GH's games in charge:
Villa have failed to win 82% of the games GH has been in charge of.
not good
Villadawg, please look at the site rules, you are not allowed to sign on here with two different names.
Unless I have a split personality your assumption is shite
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What is happening now is exactly what I thought would happen and said would happen on the day we appointed him. He is yesterday's man, a spent force. He is the managerial equivalent of Basil Fawlty's Norwgian Blue parrot.
It all began with the short list of candidates we put together. It was - with the honourable exception of KM piss poor and second rate. As we watched Carew blaze a penalty over the bar and the goals pour in at Newcastle we knew that was KM's chance gone and that a prick of a manager would get the job.
When O'Neill flounced out we should have done one of two things. We should have bitten on the bullet and made a top flight manager and his club an offer they could not refuse and got the best money could buy or we should have given KM a longer holding role until the right man became available. Instead we fell right through the gap in between those two options. We got an old man resting on past achievements living in the comfort zone and unaware or oblivious to what he was letting himself in for. He has gone full circle and has become a schoolteacher again.
He provided more evidence if more is needed of his being out of touch with premiership level football and the fans in his statement after the game. He said and I quote "it is very frustrating for the fans". No it isn't frustrating you silly old fool. It is pure unadulterated unbearable agony. Under any circumstance for fans to see the team they love humiliated week after week is more than flesh and blood can bear but to go from the new dawn of the club under the ownership of Randy Lerner and the spending of huge sums of money on players to being in accelerating freefall after challenging for top four for three seasons should not be summed up as "frustrating". Just in case the point he was making for us to stop being silly billys was lost on us he went on to say if we had won we would be chanting his name. No we would not and to claim it is as blatant and premeditated an insult to our intelligence as the Anfiled love in was.
If the comments had come from a foreign manager with little command of english - Capello for example, the choice of words would not have been so informative but his english is perfect.
This is not a cheap shot about his health but it is clear that Houllier has no heart. The game to him now is all in his head in his reversion to school teacher mode. Football and Aston Villa and football fans exist only in his brain like the names of mountains and rivers do in a geography teacher's head.
If we act quickly and get somebody in to pull the team back into a unit - even if that means booting Houllier upstairs for the rest of his contract - we may just survive. If we delay or if we allow Houllier and his assistant to continue to command the dressing room, the dug out and the training ground w are done for.
I am not frustrated Monsieur Houllier. I am dying game by game.
Good words.
Thirded.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
I'm trying to think of what would be worse, having that fat twat as manager or being in the Championship. I certainly don't want to watch that type of football every week.
Relegation would be an absolute fucking disaster, a humiliating one at that.
However, I'd rather go down than have Allardyce inflicted on us with his gut wrenchingly horrible brand of "football".
Seconded.
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We are fucked now, we are going down.
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I think you are lucky today regarding G.H., as the ssn wankfest will be all over chelsea and liverpool regarding there useless managers as well...think you will get away with it with the media......also ssn now saying g.h. job is safe on the yellow ticker thingy at bottom of screen...
I think your tongue maybe resting on your full stop key.
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Just to look at a quick fact on GH's games in charge:
Villa have failed to win 82% of the games GH has been in charge of.
not good
Villadawg, please look at the site rules, you are not allowed to sign on here with two different names.
Unless I have a split personality your assumption is shite
I am MarkM and he knows it.
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67% of people think that Villadawg is MarkM, but the other 34% like marmite.
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So while randy dithers another transfer window ticks away- last nights display with one shot on target in must win game was a joke- is randy going to wait till the window ends and we lose at blues and Wigan?
If the sky reports are correct then get your wallet out mr Lerner aNd
d let's have some players who want to give their all for Aston villa rather than the gutless crap we had on the pitch last night.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9342663.stm
"We are in a relegation fight now. The crowd must be frustrated. I understand their frustration," Houllier said.
"[But] had we won they would have been chanting my name. We're going through a difficult period, but we'll make it."
Chanting his name! what drugs is this guy on?
OK so now we have a good performance from the kids (Manu) and a good performance from the experienced players (Chelski), but that's it, the sum total of 2 points from good performances, both which saw us surrender a lead. They can now both be viewed as the exceptions rather than the norm.
It looks like Carew, Ireland, Davies, Sidwell, Dunne, Guzan, Warnock are all out of favour. There is a lot of potential there that could be effective in a relegation battle, which we will probably never see.
If we are sticking with Houllier i worry about what players we can attract, will they be better than the current squad , if Kyle Walker is anything to go by, then that is debatable, also will Houllier be able to motivate who is left, the problem now is the confidence of the players will be gone.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
I'm trying to think of what would be worse, having that fat twat as manager or being in the Championship. I certainly don't want to watch that type of football every week.
Relegation would be an absolute fucking disaster, a humiliating one at that.
However, I'd rather go down than have Allardyce inflicted on us with his gut wrenchingly horrible brand of "football".
Some of the "football" we've served up is far, far worse than anything Big Sam has come up with. What was our plan B last night. Dropping Young and Bannan into defence and having them launch long balls into the box.
As it is, we play shit football, and get shit results. I'd accept playing shit football for the rest of this season if the results inproved.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9342663.stm
"We are in a relegation fight now. The crowd must be frustrated. I understand their frustration," Houllier said.
"[But] had we won they would have been chanting my name. We're going through a difficult period, but we'll make it."
Chanting his name! what drugs is this guy on?
Probably Angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors although that shouldn't affect his mental state.
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It does feel like this season has been a perfect storm of a disaster:
MON walking out at the worst possible time; Bizarre managerial selection process; massive injury list - including players we are linked with, not just those in the squad; Houllier's ability to fall out with half the team; things on the pitch not going our way - see Emile's miss last night and the fact he conspires to get sent off as we win a free kick.
Looking back this team's decline started last season but has accelerated to alarming proportions in the last 2 months.
We need to rebuild but now it has become about surviving above everything else. Must be a sickener for Randy - all that investment and 5 yeards down the line staring relegation in the face.
Last night was frightening - I understand the reasons for putting out the team he did, but cannot understand why he made no change at half time or at least 60 mins in. The fact that our team did not seem up for the challenge of such a key game fills me with dread.
My mate kept saying last night we have all these winnable game from mid Feb onwards - but i worry this team can't handle the stress of fighting for their lives to avoid relegation. Other teams around us have more experience of this as the season reaches its conclusion. I have a horrible vision of us needing a win against Liverpool on the last day to stay up.
How did we get to this so quickly?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9342663.stm
"We are in a relegation fight now. The crowd must be frustrated. I understand their frustration," Houllier said.
"[But] had we won they would have been chanting my name. We're going through a difficult period, but we'll make it."
Chanting his name! what drugs is this guy on?
Probably Angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors although that shouldn't affect his mental state.
As bad as the DOL 'fickle' quote?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9342663.stm
"We are in a relegation fight now. The crowd must be frustrated. I understand their frustration," Houllier said.
"[But] had we won they would have been chanting my name. We're going through a difficult period, but we'll make it."
Chanting his name! what drugs is this guy on?
Probably Angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors although that shouldn't affect his mental state.
Although the cardioselective beta blockers might slow him up a little bit.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9342663.stm
"We are in a relegation fight now. The crowd must be frustrated. I understand their frustration," Houllier said.
"[But] had we won they would have been chanting my name. We're going through a difficult period, but we'll make it."
Chanting his name! what drugs is this guy on?
Probably Angiotensin-converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors although that shouldn't affect his mental state.
As bad as the DOL 'fickle' quote?
maybe he means as they were at man city singing fuck off houllier?
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They were chanting his name. To be sacked in the morning !!! Three quality signings with Walker now on loan can turn this round .....
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a keeper left back midfielder centre half and striker - make that 5 new quality signings and we may have a hope!
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The only chance Houllier has is to go and get, whatever the cost, Patrice Bergues, the man that was the football brain behind Houllier's success at Liverpool. The Scousers were right, Houllier on his own is clueless. Bergues is the Ronnie Barker to Houllier's Ronnie Corbett; without Bergues he's nobody.
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The scariest thing is we are leaking goals at a terrible rate, I just hope Houllier makes a few decent signings.
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He wants Allardayce, easy to say when you dont have to pay to watch his fucking teams play. Not that the last ten minutes were much different.
Ooh get you Mr Betterfanthanyow. I don't "want" Allardyce, I just think that as a caretaker boss until the end of the season he'd be a much better bet than Houllier.
I'm trying to think of what would be worse, having that fat twat as manager or being in the Championship. I certainly don't want to watch that type of football every week.
Relegation would be an absolute fucking disaster, a humiliating one at that.
However, I'd rather go down than have Allardyce inflicted on us with his gut wrenchingly horrible brand of "football".
Some of the "football" we've served up is far, far worse than anything Big Sam has come up with. What was our plan B last night. Dropping Young and Bannan into defence and having them launch long balls into the box.
As it is, we play shit football, and get shit results. I'd accept playing shit football for the rest of this season if the results inproved.
The diference is, we're playing shit because we don't know what to do.
Sam's teams play that guff (which I think is way worse than anything we've served up) as his main tactic.
It wouldn't just be playing shit football till the end of the season if we appointed Allardyce, either, he'd be here for several years.
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Relegation would be an absolute fucking disaster, a humiliating one at that.
However, I'd rather go down than have Allardyce inflicted on us with his gut wrenchingly horrible brand of "football".
[/quote]
Unbelieveable! Guess what - you will get your preference. See if you still believe this after three years in the Championship!
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Unbelieveable! Guess what - you will get your preference. See if you still believe this after three years in the Championship!
I'd rather not do either, but Allardyce is the anti football.
Did you see Blackburn this season? Basically just assaulting the opposition.
Fuck that.
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When will he finally be sacked?
After which game:
Sheff United
Blues
Man City
Wigan
Man U
Fulham.
Place your bets. My money is after the Blues game.
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After Blues, by which time the transfer window is shut, we're in even more trouble, and it's basically getting very close to being too late.
He's clearly going to get nothing from the next two league games, which is going to make his position untenable. This backing today looks like just delaying the utterly inevitable.
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Unbelieveable! Guess what - you will get your preference. See if you still believe this after three years in the Championship!
I'd rather not do either, but Allardyce is the anti football.
Did you see Blackburn this season? Basically just assaulting the opposition.
Fuck that.
I can't say that I noticed that when they beat us 2-0. In Dunn and Pedersen they have two creative players who would walk into our side. Blackburn are a small club though in any case, and need to do what they can to stay up.
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After Blues, by which time the transfer window is shut, we're in even more trouble, and it's basically getting very close to being too late.
He's clearly going to get nothing from the next two league games, which is going to make his position untenable. This backing today looks like just delaying the utterly inevitable.
When does the transfer window close?
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Pederson is only a 50-50 player though. he is more often frustratingly poor and is why he's stayed at Blackburn for so long. And mentioning Blackburn beating us is noe petard to hoist Allardyce upon. We were shit. A worryingly increasing, regular, phrase to describe us this season.
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After Blues, by which time the transfer window is shut, we're in even more trouble, and it's basically getting very close to being too late.
He's clearly going to get nothing from the next two league games, which is going to make his position untenable. This backing today looks like just delaying the utterly inevitable.
When does the transfer window close?
Jan 31st.
Blues game =
aaah, actually, sorry, though Blues was after Man City.
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If we lose to Blose he has to go. Not because it's them, but the games are going, we're losing to relegation rivals and we have to win 6 games.
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This made me chuckle.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A79236138
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When talk was rife suggesting Mon, could be sacked and fans decided on their favourites for his position, plenty was said about Moyes, Hughes, Hodgson, Grant, even.
Funny old game football ain't it.
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Some of the "football" we've served up is far, far worse than anything Big Sam has come up with. What was our plan B last night. Dropping Young and Bannan into defence and having them launch long balls into the box.
Yeah, but that plan B is Big Sam's plan A.
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The problem we have is that Houllier has never bonded with the fans and alienated us after the Liverpool game. He also does not seem to have bonded with the players apart from Heskey. Villa fans need a Moyes type character that can unite the club. You could tell by the lack of atmosphere last night that the club is not together and that could certainly lead to the drop...
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Some of the "football" we've served up is far, far worse than anything Big Sam has come up with. What was our plan B last night. Dropping Young and Bannan into defence and having them launch long balls into the box.
Yeah, but that plan B is Big Sam's plan A.
I seem to remember Dunn absolutely bossing things from the middle of the park in the game against us.
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I dont think he will be sacked. I also think he will keep us up, and we will end up in the top half. He knows what he wants to change. We have players coming back to full fitness, and after a taste of it, our youngsters look like they are champing at the bit to play. That game was ours last night but for a stupid move by the up to then man of the match.
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The only chance Houllier has is to go and get, whatever the cost, Patrice Bergues, the man that was the football brain behind Houllier's success at Liverpool. The Scousers were right, Houllier on his own is clueless. Bergues is the Ronnie Barker to Houllier's Ronnie Corbett; without Bergues he's nobody.
Phil Thompson played a big part in that too.
If we were to get either or both of them on board I might be a bit more optimistic that GH could turn it around.
For those who would rather face Championship football than Big Sam: I have to ask when did we become the academy of football?
In my lifetime I can only recall BFR's side being one for the purists. Sir Brian's side had it's moments too between 1995-97, but for the most part his teams played functional football. As did GT's lot first time round, JG's 1998-2002 crew and MON's mob.
Allardyce would have been well down my list earlier in the campaign and wouldn't exactly be first choice now.
But he'd stabilise the defence and might even get something out of John Carew. It's not as if we don't have talented players on the books, we just have a manager who has fallen out with most of them. Who knows, with better resources Big Sam might even do away with the need to set his sides up to assault the opposition goalkeeper at every set piece.
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The only chance Houllier has is to go and get, whatever the cost, Patrice Bergues, the man that was the football brain behind Houllier's success at Liverpool. The Scousers were right, Houllier on his own is clueless. Bergues is the Ronnie Barker to Houllier's Ronnie Corbett; without Bergues he's nobody.
Phil Thompson played a big part in that too.
If we were to get either or both of them on board I might be a bit more optimistic that GH could turn it around.
Thompson played a part but not half as much as Bergues. Everybody at Anfield respected Bergues, even those that didn't particularly like Houllier and when things started going tit crazy at Liverpool, they tried to get him back. He was also alongside Houllier at Lyon, so it's a shame we never managed to get him in the summer. I think he said the timing wasn't right. Well if we are to keep Houllier on, we should at least have the full deal rather than just the packaging.
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The only chance Houllier has is to go and get, whatever the cost, Patrice Bergues, the man that was the football brain behind Houllier's success at Liverpool. The Scousers were right, Houllier on his own is clueless. Bergues is the Ronnie Barker to Houllier's Ronnie Corbett; without Bergues he's nobody.
Phil Thompson played a big part in that too.
If we were to get either or both of them on board I might be a bit more optimistic that GH could turn it around.
Thompson played a part but not half as much as Bergues. Everybody at Anfield respected Bergues, even those that didn't particularly like Houllier and when things started going tit crazy at Liverpool, they tried to get him back. He was also alongside Houllier at Lyon, so it's a shame we never managed to get him in the summer. I think he said the timing wasn't right. Well if we are to keep Houllier on, we should at least have the full deal rather than just the packaging.
And pretty unattractive packaging it is too ;-)
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On TSport Tony Cascarino saying that Houllier was a big mistake for Villa and that he falls out with players - is paranoid etc..
Now I don't usually take much notice of what he says, but this rings true, paranoia that is.
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Moxley with a pretty hard hitting article
Much more of this Houllier soap opera and Villa really will slide out of the trapdoor
Let's imagine for a minute that you had deliberately set about sabotaging Aston Villa Football Club.
Bearing in mind that you had to remain in paid employment to carry out your dastardly plan, what would you do?
For a start, you could alienate the senior players who helped the club to a sixth-placed finish last season.
You could publicly belittle a new £8million signing, who admitted he was short of confidence at his unveiling, knowing that his brittle mental state would cause him to disappear from view.
You could continue a long feud with your star striker, the leading goalscorer over the past three seasons.
You could commit a large chunk of the club's money to a has-been, a late thirty-something who will play a bit-part in the season.
You could over-play the youngsters. Watching their confidence ebb away as results worsen along with the league position.
You could return to a former club, make a big show about how much you still feel for that former club without a second's thought for the fact you are representing your current one.
You could then bring back your senior players in a bid to save face, only to see them fail to support you where it matters most: out on the pitch.
You could hold team meetings, ask players to air their thoughts without fear of repercussion - and then axe them from the squad when they suggest improvements.
The fanzine editors at Birmingham City don't even need to make this up. 'Return to your St Andrew's base, agent Houllier, your job is almost done.' A cheap shot, yes, but what else does Gerard Houllier expect?
The fact of the matter is that had it not been for Ciaran Clark's late equaliser against a Chelsea team that is clearly struggling itself for form and confidence, Aston Villa would be sitting rock-bottom.
Villa owner Randy Lerner must be wondering where his cash has gone. He's blown the best part of £200m so far. And for what? European qualification - that, when push came to shove, was worth diddly-squat in Martin O'Neill's eyes.
Of course, the American has to admit culpability in one regard. After all, he's been the one writing the cheques. But surely he deserves better than this?
At this point, I'll hold my hands up. I advocated giving Houllier a chance. That was before he embarked on his one-man mission to lead Villa into the Championship.
I understand Lerner does not want to be seen as a 'hire 'em, fire 'em' chairman. That's all well and good. If people out there think industry is ruthless, let me tell you it has nothing on football.
It's why such outmoded characteristics like values and principles are long gone. It's professional sport - ie cash is involved. And lots of it.
I remember walking across Leicester City's training pitch with Micky Adams one day and asking how many managers he could count as friends. Micky is a personable guy, likeable, plays golf, enjoys a drink, family man, etc.
'Not many pal,' came the reply, 'when we go out there, it's war.'
So that's what's at stake. Actually, people's livelihoods would be lost at Villa Park, were the unthinkable to happen. Perhaps Mr Lerner should take that into account. I'm sure he does, he's a stand-up kinda guy. (If you'll pardon the Americanisation) But just when do you just hold up your hands and admit that you got it wrong?
After what took place on Wednesday night, it's surely a matter of time. In my opinion, Villa fans are quite slow to anger. Generally, they will put up a fair amount before being taken to a breaking-point. After that, beware.
Graham Taylor never had a problem - mainly because Graham understood the club. John Gregory - a manager with whom my own relationship was stretched on occasion - never had that problem either. Nor did Brian Little. Or Ron Atkinson. People who understood what Aston Villa was. And understood too it's core support. But just recently that has been lost.
On a personal level, I got on fine with David O'Leary. But the minute the classic banner went up in the Holte End: 'We're not fickle, we just don't like you,' he was always on to a loser.
Moscow will always loom large whenever Martin O'Neill's name is mentioned. For all the fact that he produced on the pitch, that will never be forgotten.
And whatever else Houllier does as Villa's boss, fans will always refer to that night at Anfield. I've sat and listened a number of times now to the Frenchman and I'm not convinced he realises how deeply the hurt was felt.
Most importantly, however, the noises coming from the dressing-room are appalling. Hark back to the Bolton game earlier this season. Ashley Young scores and races over to celebrate with caretaker boss Kevin MacDonald. Chances of that being repeated under the new Villa boss? Erm, nil.
Lerner and chief executive Paul Faulkner do have an option to hand. They used MacDonald earlier this season as a stop-gap and he is the man to rally the dressing-room and bring back those alienated players. He is a Villa man. Someone who understands what the club is about. He will put a smile back on the players' faces. After all, he was responsible for earning seven of the points the club's now sitting on.
So, I return to a point I made earlier in the piece. Just how bad does it have to get before a change is made? Sheffield United in the FA Cup? Or at St Andrew's in 10 days' time?
The home fans are already voting with their feet. The crowd was down for Sunderland's visit on Wednesday night. Those that were there cried: 'You're getting sacked in the morning,' at their own manager. I mean, what else can you do to prove that you have had enough.
The writing is on the wall. Time to push the button, write the cheque and move on. The season isn't over for Aston Villa just yet. But much more of this macabre soap opera and it soon will be.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1344710/The-Midlander-Much-Houllier-soap-opera-Villa-really-slide-trapdoor.html
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I stopped reading after "You could commit a large chunk of the club's money to a has-been, a late thirty-something who will play a bit-part in the season". A large chunk? Even Greg who is forever questioning our finances would never claim bringing in Pires was commiting a large chunk of our money. Utter bollocks.
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When will he finally be sacked?
After which game:
Sheff United
Blues
Man City
Wigan
Man U
Fulham.
Place your bets. My money is after the Blues game.
i dont think he can survive losing to blose
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Moxley is a ****** so I take what he has to say with a pinch of salt. Far more pro-Small Heath so no doubt has an agenda against Villa
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Moxley could have saved wear and tear on his fingertips by just typing "BURN THE FRENCHMAN"
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Moxley is a c*** so I take what he has to say with a pinch of salt. Far more pro-Small Heath so no doubt has an agenda against Villa
Regardless of whether you agree with the above article or not, he's got no agenda against Villa and has consistently written constructive, thoughtful stuff about us.
I'd be more dismissive if stuff like that were written by Oliver "Oh, Martin, you're so swoony" Holt or James "Hatchet" Nursey.
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Rigghhhhhht..........
So he's saying he thought Houllier was a good choice but actually he made a dreadful mistake and he's actually a disaster? I know most journo's haven't a clue about football but them admitting it is a new one. As for over-playing the youngsters, was the manager supposed to play injured players??!!! Utter bobbins from start to finish
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Moxley is a c*** so I take what he has to say with a pinch of salt. Far more pro-Small Heath so no doubt has an agenda against Villa
Regardless of whether you agree with the above article or not, he's got no agenda against Villa and has consistently written constructive, thoughtful stuff about us.
I'd be more dismissive if stuff like that were written by Oliver "Oh, Martin, you're so swoony" Holt or James "Hatchet" Nursey.
seems to me he is spot on, GH comes across as one of those guys you meet in business circles, once held a decent position and still holds a belief that he still has it, thinks that experience can replace energy, dosent understand that the world has moved on- in short a has been
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Moxley is a c*** so I take what he has to say with a pinch of salt. Far more pro-Small Heath so no doubt has an agenda against Villa
Regardless of whether you agree with the above article or not, he's got no agenda against Villa and has consistently written constructive, thoughtful stuff about us.
I'd be more dismissive if stuff like that were written by Oliver "Oh, Martin, you're so swoony" Holt or James "Hatchet" Nursey.
seems to me he is spot on, GH comes across as one of those guys you meet in business circles, once held a decent position and still holds a belief that he still has it, thinks that experience can replace energy, dosent understand that the world has moved on- in short a has been
I think you're half right, Hawkeye. I think he was half of a very successful partnership with Patrice Bergues but when he tries to go it alone, he falls flat on his face. As I mentioned elsewhere, he's like Ronnie Corbert without Ronnie Barker.
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I was tutting audibly when Houllier tried to get sabbatical leave from the French Football Federation (whose committee told him to fuck off) to manage the Villa (FFS!). Some thought it was 'sensible'of him. I thought it was a pisstake,typical of the scheming weeble.
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I was tutting audibly when Houllier tried to get sabbatical leave from the French Football Federation (whose committee told him to fuck off) to manage the Villa (FFS!). Some thought it was 'sensible'of him. I thought it was a pisstake,typical of the scheming weeble.
Was that actually true? If it is....fuck me.
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Yes BE that was so obvious however the sad thing is Randy didn't see that and still hired him. He has no hunger left in him. He is only here to "keep close" to his love Liverpool!
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I also confess to breaking a pencil when Houllier touched the Anfield sign with his knob..
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I was tutting audibly when Houllier tried to get sabbatical leave from the French Football Federation (whose committee told him to fuck off) to manage the Villa (FFS!). Some thought it was 'sensible'of him. I thought it was a pisstake,typical of the scheming weeble.
Was that actually true? If it is....fuck me.
It is true and public knowledge but if you don't mind I won't accept your offer!
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Speaking for myself, I am disturbed enough by Houllier's effect on the team to want him well shot of the club but, in the absence of any real candidate to replace him*, what can we do but cross fingers, touch wood and clutch our lucky rabbit's feet?
After the Man City the poll on the other thread was something like 80/20 against. Since then the grown ups have voted and it's now at around 60/40. If results improve and we make a couple of decent signings see no reason why that shouldn't shift again.
I've lifted the above quote from another thread - hope you don't mind Chris but it does make me wonder who the grownups voted for this time. Did you change your mind? At 120-27 in favour of the sack it's quite a swing...
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01628/snow_1628384c.jpg)
* Sam Allardyce doesn't count as we'd be stuck with him for at least three years - no way he'd do the short term contract thing.
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Joel, still think we need to stick with it. I was encouraged by Sunday but then worried by his seeming inability to change things when needed last night. If you,d asked me straight after the game I would have voted string him up.
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Yeah I reckon that pretty much sums it up for me. Don't think the next few weeks are going to be a lot of fun though.
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He's averaging less than a point a game. You don't have to be a maths genius to see what the outcome of that will be if it continues.
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Yep, it's pretty obvious what will happen if it continues. But... who's gonna make it better? What if the replacement doesn't gel, doesn't have that new manager effect? I could be wrong but I seem to remember reading that statistically, replacing the manager mid-season doesn't augur well for results. After the possible "honeymoon period" results have statistically tended to drop off.
I'm not saying that would happen, but if it did then any potential improvement from the (admittedly so far invisible) work GH has done with the team could be lost and we'd still be plummeting.
Just sayin' like.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/07/gerard-houllier-aston-villa-crisis
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We have gotta roll with him. And so has Lerner with funding .......
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/07/gerard-houllier-aston-villa-crisis
Good leadership shown by our captain there. Pretty obvious that there is mutiny behind the scenes if Petrov is coming out publicly criticising the manager. Carew's antics this season have been a disgrace but we need him. He has been our top scorer for the last three seasons and to let him go to another relegation candidate would be mind numbingly stupid. Houllier and himself need to put their differences to one side and let him start at the weekend. It was at this stage last season that his year kicked off with a hat trick against Reading. Maybe he can do it again.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/07/gerard-houllier-aston-villa-crisis
How incredibly sad that it's come to this.
Houllier simply has to go, get KMac in now to steady the ship with Sid and Tony Mc in support.
We need Carew back asap to lead the line
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We have our top scorer from last season completely frozen out, and our second top scorer playing on the wing.
Remind me again when things are going to get better under Houllier. 14 points from 16 games is beyond humiliating.
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Moxley is a c*** so I take what he has to say with a pinch of salt. Far more pro-Small Heath so no doubt has an agenda against Villa
Regardless of whether you agree with the above article or not, he's got no agenda against Villa and has consistently written constructive, thoughtful stuff about us.
I'd be more dismissive if stuff like that were written by Oliver "Oh, Martin, you're so swoony" Holt or James "Hatchet" Nursey.
seems to me he is spot on, GH comes across as one of those guys you meet in business circles, once held a decent position and still holds a belief that he still has it, thinks that experience can replace energy, dosent understand that the world has moved on- in short a has been
Agree 100%
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Do you think houllier will survive the sack if we turn you over at st andrews in ten days time?
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Do you think houllier will survive the sack if we turn you over at st andrews in ten days time?
He'll be lucky to survive full stop, never mind the sack!
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Do you think houllier will survive the sack if we turn you over at st andrews in ten days time?
No, his position will have become untenable.
The crowd have already turned on him as demonstrated at the end of the Sunderland game
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I had a dream last night, (please don't panic!). Ged got sacked and in one of those Ellis style press conferences, Mr Lerner announced "I'd like to introduce you to the new manager of Aston Villa" and in walked Brian Little, with Sid Cowans and John Gregory as assistants!
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Do you think houllier will survive the sack if we turn you over at st andrews in ten days time?
No.
When Sheff Utd dump us out of the FA Cup and we lose to the Blues, that surely will be it.
I have a suspicion that the derby will be a draw because it really will be a must-not-lose game for both teams.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
your full of the joys of spring you are
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As full of doubts as I am, I want him to stay in the job.
That will mean we've escaped relegation and climbed the table.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
your full of the joys of spring you are
It's just a statement in response to Sheldon as to what would happen if we lost to the Blues. I didn't say that we are going to lose, or even that I think we will.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
your full of the joys of spring you are
It's just a statement in response to Sheldon as to what would happen if we lost to the Blues. I didn't say that we are going to lose, or even that I think we will.
plus i think we will still have a game in hand
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Villa fans are quite slow to anger. Generally, they will put up a fair amount before being taken to a breaking-point. After that, beware.
Can't believe Chris Smith didn't pick up on this.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
your full of the joys of spring you are
It's just a statement in response to Sheldon as to what would happen if we lost to the Blues. I didn't say that we are going to lose, or even that I think we will.
plus i think we will still have a game in hand
You lot have normally got something in hand.
Unfortunately for most of the time it's your cock.
Or someone elses.
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Lose to Blues and we could well go bottom, and we'd then be four points behind them. I think that would be the final straw. Being in the bottom three would be bad enough, but as soon as a gap starts to open up between us and safety then I think we'd be screwed.
your full of the joys of spring you are
It's just a statement in response to Sheldon as to what would happen if we lost to the Blues. I didn't say that we are going to lose, or even that I think we will.
plus i think we will still have a game in hand
You lot have normally got something in hand.
Unfortunately for most of the time it's your cock.
Or someone elses.
I would imagine that it's not easy to hold any cock when you haven't got opposable thumbs.
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Let's not turn this into a Blues banter thread please chaps.
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Only kidding Sheldon.
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From The Mail,
http://tinyurl.com/2vn9tje
Aston Villa players PRAISED by Gerard Houllier for drab defeat at home to Sunderland
Aston Villa players were stunned to receive the manager’s congratulations after the club fell into the bottom three for the first time in seven years.
They were expecting an earful following an insipid showing against Sunderland that left Villa Park calling for the head of manager Gerard Houllier.
Instead, the Villa boss muttered: ‘Well done.’
Slump: Aston Villa slipped into the bottom three with defeat against Sunderland
‘We couldn’t believe what we were hearing,’ said one player.
Three victories in 15 games since taking over have left Houllier facing a battle to save his job, although in public chief executive Paul Faulkner and owner Randy Lerner remain committed to their boss.
Villa’s owners do not want to sack a manager five months after appointing him. But with a dressing room at odds with themselves, crowds dwindling and games against city rivals Birmingham and the two Manchester giants looming, things may not improve quickly.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1344876/Aston-Villa-players-PRAISED-Gerard-Houllier-drab-defeat-home-Sunderland.html#ixzz1ALJsVyTb
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I wasn't.
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GH was just asked if 'he' was worried about his job.
His answer was;
"#avfc A: I belong to this exclusive private club of four people under great pressure and I'm delighted to be in such company"
Taken from matt kendricks twitter!
GH never ceases to amaze me, just when I think he can't more stupid he does!
Nice to see that he's taking our plight seriously!
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We have our top scorer from last season completely frozen out, and our second top scorer playing on the wing.
Remind me again when things are going to get better under Houllier. 14 points from 16 games is beyond humiliating.
Didn't Carew tell Houllier that he wasn't fit enough when given a place on the bench?
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French Prick
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Do you think houllier will survive the sack if we turn you over at st andrews in ten days time?
I'll tell you something for nothing, you can thank your lucky stars the game isn't at Villa Park. If it was you'd likely see a repeat of 03.03.03. There's a similar kind of atmosphere building up and it ain't pretty.
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what makes you think that ?
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GH was just asked if 'he' was worried about his job.
His answer was;
"#avfc A: I belong to this exclusive private club of four people under great pressure and I'm delighted to be in such company"
Taken from matt kendricks twitter!
GH never ceases to amaze me, just when I think he can't more stupid he does!
Nice to see that he's taking our plight seriously!
No the end of the world but it must be his way of dealing with stress to be facetious under pressure.
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GH was just asked if 'he' was worried about his job.
His answer was;
"#avfc A: I belong to this exclusive private club of four people under great pressure and I'm delighted to be in such company"
Taken from matt kendricks twitter!
GH never ceases to amaze me, just when I think he can't more stupid he does!
Nice to see that he's taking our plight seriously!
I cant believe the man.... im at the villa tonight i hope no one asks me what i think of him....
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what makes you think that ?
In case you haven't noticed, there's a certain amount of tension building up, very similar to the 02/03 season.
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That was an 8pm night game though, lots of people were fuelled up
This is Sunday at noon isn't it ?
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Give him a transfer window. Lets face it, any of us could have scored the sitter Heskey missed the other night, its hardly Houllier's fault if we're spunking easy chances. Gabby hasnt managed one single league goal this year and the less said about Carew the better. Its not Houllier's team and lets face it, the warning signs were ominious towards the end of last season - anyone who went to the last couple of games last season - Birmingham excepted- can tell you that. I don't care who is our boss, the players are letting us down and should be putting in a bit more fight and effort - which should be expected of them whoever the manager is.
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Give him a transfer window. Lets face it, any of us could have scored the sitter Heskey missed the other night, its hardly Houllier's fault if we're spunking easy chances. Gabby hasnt managed one single league goal this year and the less said about Carew the better. Its not Houllier's team and lets face it, the warning signs were ominious towards the end of last season - anyone who went to the last couple of games last season - Birmingham excepted- can tell you that. I don't care who is our boss, the players are letting us down just as much regardless of who the boss is.
I was listening to Talksposrt earlier and a scouser rang in to combat the "its not roys team" excuses. He said... is Newcastle team Pardews team... is Blackburns team Steve Keans team?
he was right.... The manager motivates the players and thats the problem at VP....
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I do agree but if you're spurning easy chances out on the pitch then other teams are going to make you pay eventually - and the same thing happened to BFR's team, infinitely superior on paper to our currnent team and playing more attractive football but useless in front of goal.
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With 5,000 tickets sold for the match tomorrow, if the fans turn on GH, it is going to sound depressingly loud.
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IF? I thought they had already, no?
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I do agree but if you're spurning easy chances out on the pitch then other teams are going to make you pay eventually - and the same thing happened to BFR's team, infinitely superior on paper to our currnent team and playing more attractive football but useless in front of goal.
If your playing Emile Heskey up front with a winger and putting a striker on the wing you have to expect not to score.... even a simpleton could tell the french moron that..
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IF? I thought they had already, no?
In the form of "sacked in the morning" style chants during the match, I mean.
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I didn't think there were that many people chanting that on Weds although all the talk after was of who the new manager should be.
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With 5,000 tickets sold for the match tomorrow, if the fans turn on GH, it is going to sound depressingly loud.
Is it Live on TV at all ?
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Have we really sold 5,000 tickets?
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With 5,000 tickets sold for the match tomorrow, if the fans turn on GH, it is going to sound depressingly loud.
Is it Live on TV at all ?
It's not live on TV but it will make a good story for the media if Villa lose and 5000 fans are calling for Houllier's head.
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Have we really sold 5,000 tickets?
The talk is there a few hundred left of a 5400 allocation but this may be wrong.
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Have we really sold 5,000 tickets?
We've got the whole end and the corner.
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I didn't think there were that many people chanting that on Weds although all the talk after was of who the new manager should be.
There were plenty behind me who started it almost straight after we conceded.
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Have we really sold 5,000 tickets?
We've got the whole end and the corner.
Fair play.
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Pires lifts the lid http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8246909/Robert-Pires-reveals-strains-between-Gerard-Houllier-and-Aston-Villa-players.html
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I do agree but if you're spurning easy chances out on the pitch then other teams are going to make you pay eventually - and the same thing happened to BFR's team, infinitely superior on paper to our currnent team and playing more attractive football but useless in front of goal.
We made one clear cut chance vs Sland in 90 odd minutes!
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Pires lifts the lid http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/8246909/Robert-Pires-reveals-strains-between-Gerard-Houllier-and-Aston-Villa-players.html
What a poorly written piece that is.
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It's not live on TV but it will make a good story for the media if Villa lose and 5000 fans are calling for Houllier's head.
Which will surely happen.
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Why isn't there a "Crack" option on this poll, as in: "This complete buffoon of a manager is driving me to..."?
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I shall be setting out to see the game when I have had some breakfast. I don't think we will lose. In fact I am confident we will not lose because every year there is a team battling relegation which has a long cup run and this year is our turn. The players will be so relieved not to be at Villa Park and scrapping for points they will be relaxed and confident.
If we do lose I shall not be chanting for Houllier's head. I think he is a disaster and we should never have taken him on in the first place but it is clear that Randy has given him the mother of all bollockings in exchange for not sacking him so a chant against Houllier -much though he deserves it for his incompetence - would be a chant against Randy.
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We have the smell of death about us. I don't foresee a long cup run, but hope springs eternal.
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Maybe today is his last chance? Obviously he and Randy have had a 'meeting' this week. Randy (as any owner of a Football club would) has probably told him that this cannot go on, he could have sacked him by now, and if he had no-one, not even Houllier could complain, Gerard isn't a stupid man, he knows he has to get results. Does he know how to get them? that's the worrying part, the part I'm not convinced with. We are looking as bad as I've ever seen us since being a season ticket holder at Villa since 1994. Obviously some of you guys will have seen worse, and seen us come out the other side, but I feel there is more to lose these days by getting relegated as opposed to days gone by. We can't afford to drop out the League, Ok, Newcastle have pulled themselves together, well....some might say, but lots of other supposed big clubs haven't, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday & Leeds to name a few. I'm not sure I can even begin to think about going down.
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Put it this way, if I joined the knuckledraggers as their manager, and was plotting their relegation, I'd do exactly as Houllier is doing to us.
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We will win today. 3-1.
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Who cares if we win, lose or draw today. Our players look fucked in league games as it is so we don't need any more.
Get the fool out of the club before it's too late.
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Who cares if we win, lose or draw today. Our players look fucked in league games as it is so we don't need any more.
I'd quite like us to win actually.
And if your main complaint is about the number of games, why would you not care if we draw?
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Who cares if we win, lose or draw today. Our players look fucked in league games as it is so we don't need any more.
I'd quite like us to win actually.
And if your main complaint is about the number of games, why would you not care if we draw?
Because we are in the drop zone, like our captain I couldn't give two fucks about the cup because we need to sort out the league. Would you not agree?
The result today simply does not matter hence why I wrote draw to emphasise this point.
However you are correct a draw would be the worse of all results, as it means having to play another game with this manager and these gobshite players.
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Who cares if we win, lose or draw today. Our players look fucked in league games as it is so we don't need any more.
I'd quite like us to win actually.
And if your main complaint is about the number of games, why would you not care if we draw?
Because we are in the drop zone, like our captain I couldn't give two fucks about the cup because we need to sort out the league. Would you not agree?
I'd quite like to win today and start winning in the league as well. Losing today doesn't mean we're suddenly going to go on a fine run of league form, just as winning today doesn't mean we'll lose every league game we play.
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Another defeat will be a bad blow before the blues games,whereas a win today should hopefully give us a bit of a boost,then who knows,a home draw against a lower league team and hopefully we can build some momentum.
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To those that don't care about todays result over League survival, well I don't know actually, i'm probably mad, but I'd love to see us win the FA Cup - i'm a bit old skool like that.
The league is the league, we are never going to win it with the current set up I do know that and the holy grail of Champs League has well and truly gone.
I've seen us relegated, then gain promotion (enormous fun to those you can't remember) and other than the barbed comments of Blose and Olbiyun fans I don't fear it as much as some - perhaps it's the distance, or the realisation that we are now fighting in the 'best of the rest league', or just that whatever happens, we are Aston Villa, we are special and ,unlike our unwashed neighbours, we always will be to scholars of the game.
But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
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I want us to win every game we play. I thought that was the point in being a football supporter.
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I want us to win every game we play. I thought that was the point in being a football supporter.
Is the correct answer.
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I want us to win every game we play. I thought that was the point in being a football supporter.
Is the correct answer.
We all want us to win every game.
However to give us the best chance of winning league games I honestly think it would be best to get out of this cup, I honestly believe it helps the players by not having another distraction.
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I want us to win every game we play. I thought that was the point in being a football supporter.
Is the correct answer.
We all want us to win every game.
However to give us the best chance of winning league games I honestly think it would be best to get out of this cup, I honestly believe it helps the players by not having another distraction.
Or it could create a bit of momentum, restore confidence and start a resurgence.
Half Empty/Half full I suppose.
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To those that don't care about todays result over League survival, well I don't know actually, i'm probably mad, but I'd love to see us win the FA Cup - i'm a bit old skool like that.
The league is the league, we are never going to win it with the current set up I do know that and the holy grail of Champs League has well and truly gone.
I've seen us relegated, then gain promotion (enormous fun to those you can't remember) and other than the barbed comments of Blose and Olbiyun fans I don't fear it as much as some - perhaps it's the distance, or the realisation that we are now fighting in the 'best of the rest league', or just that whatever happens, we are Aston Villa, we are special and ,unlike our unwashed neighbours, we always will be to scholars of the game.
But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
Exactly my position and thanks OzVilla for saving me having to write it.
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To those that don't care about todays result over League survival, well I don't know actually, i'm probably mad, but I'd love to see us win the FA Cup - i'm a bit old skool like that.
The league is the league, we are never going to win it with the current set up I do know that and the holy grail of Champs League has well and truly gone.
I've seen us relegated, then gain promotion (enormous fun to those you can't remember) and other than the barbed comments of Blose and Olbiyun fans I don't fear it as much as some - perhaps it's the distance, or the realisation that we are now fighting in the 'best of the rest league', or just that whatever happens, we are Aston Villa, we are special and ,unlike our unwashed neighbours, we always will be to scholars of the game.
But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
Exactly my position and thanks OzVilla for saving me having to write it.
I would take winning the FA Cup and going down tomorrow. Winning something goes down in the history books and would be a great achievement.
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Being relegated also goes down in the history books!
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To those that don't care about todays result over League survival, well I don't know actually, i'm probably mad, but I'd love to see us win the FA Cup - i'm a bit old skool like that.
The league is the league, we are never going to win it with the current set up I do know that and the holy grail of Champs League has well and truly gone.
I've seen us relegated, then gain promotion (enormous fun to those you can't remember) and other than the barbed comments of Blose and Olbiyun fans I don't fear it as much as some - perhaps it's the distance, or the realisation that we are now fighting in the 'best of the rest league', or just that whatever happens, we are Aston Villa, we are special and ,unlike our unwashed neighbours, we always will be to scholars of the game.
But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
Exactly my position and thanks OzVilla for saving me having to write it.
I would take winning the FA Cup and going down tomorrow. Winning something goes down in the history books and would be a great achievement.
Me too. I want us to win the FA cup more than anything.
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We will win today. 3-1.
Did you put any money on the result?
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To those that don't care about todays result over League survival, well I don't know actually, i'm probably mad, but I'd love to see us win the FA Cup - i'm a bit old skool like that.
The league is the league, we are never going to win it with the current set up I do know that and the holy grail of Champs League has well and truly gone.
I've seen us relegated, then gain promotion (enormous fun to those you can't remember) and other than the barbed comments of Blose and Olbiyun fans I don't fear it as much as some - perhaps it's the distance, or the realisation that we are now fighting in the 'best of the rest league', or just that whatever happens, we are Aston Villa, we are special and ,unlike our unwashed neighbours, we always will be to scholars of the game.
But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
Exactly my position and thanks OzVilla for saving me having to write it.
I would take winning the FA Cup and going down tomorrow. Winning something goes down in the history books and would be a great achievement.
What? Seriously? No way. That is madness.
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But if I had the choice of just one trophy i'd like to see the Villa win before I croke it would be the FA Cup.
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Seriously, there are people that would take 17th and survival in the sky league over winning the FA Cup? Seriously? Winning a major trophy, that we have not won for over half a century or staying up? Feck that. Win the cup and enjoy watching us better some teams in the coca cola league for a season. Can't believe it would even be a discussion.
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Still a nimpty.
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Whilst in theory I'd love to see us with the FA cup, I think the club's future could be in big trouble if we get relegated. I wouldn't stake the future of the club on the FA cup.
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if you support a club, not a glory hunting club but one of the other 87 or 88 in the fotball league,
and someone says to you 'in your lifetime you will see good times and bad, ups and downs, promotions and relegations, but i can gurantee that you will see your team win EVERY major honour there is to win, before you die'
you would snap his hand of, how many supporters of other clubs will be able to say that before they go,
well i'm an FA cup short of that,
so you know what my answer is re FA cup or relegation,
unfortunatley its totaly hypothetical, so we just got to keep on hopeing
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The club would do just what Newcastle did. Sell lots of the high earners, keep a few that will help us get back up and work with the kids, loans etc. The chairman will not see us go into ruin, and the club will survive. And winning the cup would be awesome.
It is all hypothetical anyway. We won't be relegated, and we won't win the cup.
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....bollocks to sky and its big four premiership, give me an eighth fa cup and massive away followings and full houses at every championship ground if the mighty villa roll into town (minus Young and that stupid snood)!! Now that would be fun. More fun than this season has been no doubt.
If I'm honest I'm bored with the way football has gone in the premiership because of sky, the "champions (and 3 runners up) league" and overpaid and underworked so called superstars. In fact in a perverse way I would probably prefer the Championship unless of course we kept sinking or never got out.......then it may get a bit frustrating
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Yesturday at the Sheffield game I met Marc Albrighton's dad.
He was a really nice bloke, who was happy when I informed him Marc was starting.
I asked him for any gossip but he said he doesn't know anything. I asked him if Marc likes Houllier and he said yeah he really enjoys working with him.
He said the training was really bad under Martin but is alot better under Gerrard.
He also said that if we think Marc, Barry and Clark are good, just wait till we see Gary Gardner play, he said he is a real talent.
That was all he would say, but it was great meet someone soo normal and too tell him how great we all think Marc is.
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Nice little story shrek, hope Gary recovers well from his injury and don't turn to the dark side
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If the above is true, I reckon a lot of us have already second guessed that its the older pro's bought by MON which are the trouble makers and until this group is broken up we can not judge Houllier at all fairly. The more the season goes on you have to wonder if these rumours we keep hearing are true and what hope Houllier had from the moment he took over until the transfer window. It will be interesting who leaves.
I don't understand the logic in playing Pires yesterday if the paper report from him was true?
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It's true, I'm not lieing!
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I do believe you, what I mean is if you read into what Albrington's dad said the training is good and if he is happy then it has to be the older pros who need to change NOT the manager before we can give him a chance.
I think the board are doing the right thing in not just sacking Houllier without giving him more time.
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Yeah I'm starting to agree, I have been pro Houllier since he came, because I honestly thought he has real pedigree of improving a club.
But after Sunderlands rubbish performance and zero input from the manager tactically, I wanted him out.
I am willing to give him time if he can buy and sell a few players.
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Albrighton -like Bannan- will be one of those players who benefited from MON's departure in the summer, as they'd have probably seen far less game time under MON. Particularly he had got his way and been able to sign McGeady.
It stands to reason they'd be grateful for the chance to figure more, but it should always be on merit, rather than just having a manager saying "Look! I play the kids!" and hoping to head off some of the criticism for not getting results that way. Though I do accept that his hand was somewhat forced in Nov/Dec.
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if you support a club, not a glory hunting club but one of the other 87 or 88 in the fotball league,
and someone says to you 'in your lifetime you will see good times and bad, ups and downs, promotions and relegations, but i can gurantee that you will see your team win EVERY major honour there is to win, before you die'
That's it John and I am there. Started going to VP when we got relgated to the 3rd division so I have seen us win everything except the holy grail the FA Cup. I guess the FA cup means more to the fans of my generation and not so much to under 30's.
To them I guess . as football started in 93, staying in the PL and finishing 17th to mid table over say 40 years will be all they want.
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The problem with that is that years ago it was quite possible to get relegated, come back up and then go for the title all within a relatively short space of time.
SKY are currently on a nostalgia tip and are showing programmes from 1991, including a young Andy Gray -then Aston Villa assistant manager- getting interviewed. He talked about winning the European Cup again as a realistic aim, and it might have been back then. Even though we had just avoided the drop under Venglos. Following year we finished second, but we haven't come anywhere near the title since then.
I don't think anyone seriously wants to finish only 17-mid table over 40 years. It's simply a case that relegation and all the financial implications of that would mean an already remote chance of exceeding 6th at some point in the not too distant becomes close to impossible.
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You see I don't really understand why PL clubs field "weaker" teams in the FA Cup. I don't understand fans not turning up for a home tie. The empty seats at Sunderland were shocking. Therefore I am shocked by what's happenend to football since 93.
For me over the past many many seasons the priority home game was always an FA Cup tie. No other competition has motivated me more ever since I read about our 57 truimph and the general history of the cup. Also the fact that for a long time Aston Villa were the record holding winners.
If I had the choice I would we rather lose a league game than a cup game. You can make up the loss in the League.
I would be happy if we win the FA Cup now and than and keep qualifying for Europe so that I can watch us play in other countries. That is not a lot to ask for?
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Talking to some Wolves fans on the way home yesterday and all they're interested in is the Premier League, and staying in it. To them the FA Cup is an irrelevance.
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You see I don't really understand why PL clubs field "weaker" teams in the FA Cup. I don't understand fans not turning up for a home tie. The empty seats at Sunderland were shocking. Therefore I am shocked by what's happenend to football since 93.
For me over the past many many seasons the priority home game was always an FA Cup tie. No other competition has motivated me more ever since I read about our 57 truimph and the general history of the cup. Also the fact that for a long time Aston Villa were the record holding winners.
If I had the choice I would we rather lose a league game than a cup game. You can make up the loss in the League.
I would be happy if we win the FA Cup now and than and keep qualifying for Europe so that I can watch us play in other countries. That is not a lot to ask for?
I agree aftab.
Even Sheff United had swathes of empty seats yesterday. We might not be performing that well, but there are still a few stars in our team and years ago a lower division side at home facing a team from the top flight would be an occasion, guaranteed to be pretty close to a sellout.
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I am 28 aftab, and for me football started in GT 88 season going down regularly. For me the FA Cup is a major trophy, and the club would bounce back from relegation in time, but win the FA Cup once a century or so, so winning the FA Cup is way more prestigious.
Nice to hear GH has some people who think he is doing ok too Shrek, Albrighton is a hell of a footballer. I also think he needed the rest given too him in the last couple of games.
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Talking to some Wolves fans on the way home yesterday and all they're interested in is the Premier League, and staying in it. To them the FA Cup is an irrelevance.
I reckon they might have felt differently if they'd had'nt been held to a 2-2 draw against Doncaster.
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Fair play to you ozzjim. Good to see traditional values preserved in a "youngster".
I saw the emergence of Little, Gidman etc who were than older than me so I viewed that as normal activity in a club. Since than only Shaw came through with our system with real class. I am very excited about Albrighton and Bannan. Clark will also make it. Not sure about Lichaj, Delfouenso and Hogg so far but time to develop. Kids emerge better in successful teams rather than struggling team so it is very important that we move away from our current position in the league and aslo agree that they must not be overplayed.
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im 45 but i must admit id love to win the fa cup most , mainly because ive seen us win the others.
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The good new is that yesterday GH palyed Albrighton and Bannan from the start (unlike he did against Chelsea and Sunderland).
Ok, maybe at Barça Super Mark would start from the bench, but at Villa?
To be honest, unlike many users here, I wasn't remained impressed with the team even after the 3-3 at the Bridge. I have been watching football since 30 years, and one thing that I have learnt is to judge a game without being conditioned by the final result. So, the last lucky Clarke's equalizer (lucky because it's not too often that the team that won the League leaves one of your players unmarked in the box, at their home, after completing a dramatic comeback) didn't change my mind. I thought that we had lost the occasion to win against a team in deep crisis and the following games, their with Wolves and ours with Sunderland, confirmed that I was right.
Unfortunately I'm convinced that, if things don't change, with his absurd tactics and choices this manager will bring us deep in championship as he doesn't have a clue of what he's doing, but I'll support him until he's in charge.
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Chelsea were only in front because "super Marc" fucked up, we played well and a lot of that was to do with the side he picked and the tactics employed. One game doesn't prove or disprove anything but it is a bit petty to not acknowledge when he gets thing right.
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The good new is that yesterday GH palyed Albrighton and Bannan from the start (unlike he did against Chelsea and Sunderland).
Ok, maybe at Barça Super Mark would start from the bench, but at Villa?
To be honest, unlike many users here, I wasn't remained impressed with the team even after the 3-3 at the Bridge. I have been watching football since 30 years, and one thing that I have learnt is to judge a game without being conditioned by the final result. So, the last lucky Clarke's equalizer (lucky because it's not too often that the team that won the League leaves one of your players unmarked in the box, at their home, after completing a dramatic comeback) didn't change my mind. I thought that we had lost the occasion to win against a team in deep crisis and the following games, their with Wolves and ours with Sunderland, confirmed that I was right.
Unfortunately I'm convinced that, if things don't change, with his absurd tactics and choices this manager will bring us deep in championship as he doesn't have a clue of what he's doing, but I'll support him until he's in charge.
Chelsea were lucky to be beating us 3-2.
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I think we would have won quite comfortably at Stamford Bridge if Petrov and NRC had been 100% match fit. Chelsea were only pushing when our midfielders lost their legs and fell too deep.
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I have been watching football since 30 years, and one thing that I have learnt is to judge a game without being conditioned by the final result. So, the last lucky Clarke's equalizer
Clearly than your jugement would have been that at half time against Chelses we should have been 2 up rather than 1-1?
and you are not giving Clark any credit for sneaking in like he did.
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Chelsea were only pushing when our midfielders lost their legs and fell too deep.
Spot on, and imo even because the defence always hits the ball clear and never tries to to build the play from the back, so we can't hold the ball and we are always under pressure.
And this is for this that I am disappointed and worried, because the same had happened at Fulham and with Man. Utd, two games that we had dominated.
When shall we learn?
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That is not new though Archie. We were the same last season to the point where Terry even said Chelsea knew we tired on 60 minutes. The issue is we can't bring on 2 other centre mids at the moment of the erm.. quality of Reo Coker and Petrov. When Delph is fully fit and we maybe get Makoun, there are 4 of good quality that can rotate about even during games to keep us fresh.
Yesterday we did this, and Petrov got the goal in injury time, and Super Mark looked as sharp as he has in a while following a rest for 2 games.
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I'm glad we had a winnable if potentially tricky FA Cup tie for Houllier to try to get the winning mentality back and change a few things. A point at Chelsea was a bonus (ultimately a disappointment in the sense we were deservedly ahead for most of the 2nd half) but the real test was always going to be our matches with Sunderland and next Sunday. If it is more of the same next weekend (performance, attitude, result as in midweek), then his position will once again questioned. Motivation for a local derby shouldn't normally be an issue but it's the very least we should expect.
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Might be mad, but I reckon we are going to win it 2-1 at their place. Just a feeling.
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Yes, nice touch, Ozzjim.
Obviously I hope with all the heart to be wrong and that you're right, mates!
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I think we would have won quite comfortably at Stamford Bridge if Petrov and NRC had been 100% match fit. Chelsea were only pushing when our midfielders lost their legs and fell too deep.
More like we would have won if half our team weren't on yellow cards, preventing them challenging in the second half!
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
A good insight.
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"Losing the confidence of the dressing room is not as rare as it seems. We only tend to hear about it when there are heavy defeats, but I've played for managers whom the team has disliked and we've been floating along mid-table. Mediocrity is itself a reason to dislike a manager. Players are ambitious and want to win, not settle for safety."
Gregory
"As the pressure builds, the unrest gains momentum and is difficult for a manager to contain. It is at this point that they often start to make crazy decisions. One manager I had brought in a rule that English was the only language allowed in the dressing room. That alienated the foreign players who then refused to speak English and suddenly there was a rift."
Keegan
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
Really good read there.
Abit worrying though, he seems to indicate that Houllier has always had a problem with player disliking him.
He also has the opinion that success early in the managers tenure usually means you have time when things get abit rough. Houllier is on thin ice then Jamo!
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Players not liking him is not news, there were a few ex pool players who made the point when he joined us.
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Dalglish, who has taken over at Liverpool a decade after he left his last managerial position, at Celtic, will presumably know all about the differences having seen Roy Hodgson, his predecessor, given only half a season to try and put his stamp on the side, but nevertheless Houllier has told him that he will have little time to assert himself and that even to lose one game plunges the club into crisis mode.
“I think that Kenny will see a change. Many things have changed, not only the press. They are more numerous, but there are other things. It is more difficult. There is no time for patience now. No time for time. If you lose a game there is a crisis, and a crisis can affect the players.”
That might be the case with Liverpool but in fact, Gerard, not all clubs and owners have lost the virtue of patience.
Indeed, the Frenchman has taken a team which, minus James Milner, finished in the top six for four years running, into the relegation zone for the first time since 2003, and yet his owner Randy Lerner continues to give his support – even when supporters called for Houllier’s head and players undermine him – although Houllier continues to contest suggestions his relationship with certain players is strained.
Houllier explained, for example, that Robert Pires’ revelations about the Villa dressing room being “strained” and “highly charged” were ramped up by the media.
“He was taken out of context,” Houllier said. “He came to see me and said he had told the radio he was unhappy not to play. I told him that I am glad he is not happy not to play. If he was happy, he would not deserve to be on the bench.”
The Telegraph - Clicky (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/fa-cup/8249097/Aston-Villa-defeat-Sheffield-United-the-hard-way.html)
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You think that they could have printed the correct result !! :o
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You think that they could have printed the correct result !! :o
that just proves how much the media get things wrong and how much bullshit they make up..
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He was taken out of context,” Houllier said. “He came to see me and said he had told the radio he was unhappy not to play. I told him that I am glad he is not happy not to play. If he was happy, he would not deserve to be on the bench.”
I don't care if he's a manic depressive and suicidal; or comes out having necked three E's and a load of Prozac, he doesn't deserve to be in the squad because he is old and shit.
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Might as well dig this up.
If he has failed in his attempt at signing J2M after flying out there to meet him, before a huge game for us then it is almost laughable. Just how shit was that sales pitch?
This couldn't have inspired much confidence with Randy.
Lose against them and I reckon that he will be gone by 6pm Monday.
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He won't be.
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i dont think he will be gone either, and many on here need to grow up and support the lads instead of bitching continually. Ged will be here for a good while yet!
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We lose to them, the abuse he is going to get come the Man City game, especially if they go one or two up will be awful. I think it's fair to say from polls on certain sites and chants at certain games he has already lost a good chunk of the fans.
I don't think Randy will want to watch his investment implode.
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If we win?
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He probably gets to the Wigan game, if he fucks that up then the crowd will turn again.
Fickle I must admit but his truly awful PR and general management so far has ensured this. He needs to pull a few players out of the bag and go on a bloody good run sometime soon to repair the damage (polls on certain web sites and chants at certain games show the damage done.)
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
Really good read there.
Abit worrying though, he seems to indicate that Houllier has always had a problem with player disliking him.
He also has the opinion that success early in the managers tenure usually means you have time when things get abit rough. Houllier is on thin ice then Jamo!
Does anyone seriously think any of the Man U players would want to go out to dinner with Ferguson?
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Some posters just do not get it. Houllier is here to get Lerners dream back on track and that is going to incur a lot of pain. I can imagine after his first few weeks Lerner asking him what he thought of his very expensive squad and Gerard replying shit m'lord.
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Lerner might well have had an expansive, root and branch overhaul of the playing staff and coaching methods lined up, content enough that safety wouldn't even be an issue this season.
But at a certain point pragmatism has to kick in. I'm not sure what the tipping point for them is, but I'd imagine anything less than four points from the next three games would make GH's job virtually untenable.
Unless Lerner favours the finger in the ear 'I'm not listening' approach to business, and I doubt that.
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£18 million on Bent, £6million on Makoun suggests to me that Randy is backing Houllier. he's here for the rest of the season so let's get behind him.
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I think he'll be here a good deal longer than the end of the season, he is being backed by the board and needs to be backed by the fans.
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Might as well dig this up.
If he has failed in his attempt at signing J2M after flying out there to meet him, before a huge game for us then it is almost laughable. Just how shit was that sales pitch?
This couldn't have inspired much confidence with Randy.
Lose against them and I reckon that he will be gone by 6pm Monday.
May as well dig it up again. How's your mate the chef, by the way?
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We lose to them, the abuse he is going to get come the Man City game, especially if they go one or two up will be awful. I think it's fair to say from polls on certain sites and chants at certain games he has already lost a good chunk of the fans.
I don't think Randy will want to watch his investment implode.
Does it make you feel more comfortable when there are a load of others with the same opinion as you? I noticed a feeble effort to start an anti-Houllier chant on Sunday.
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Hey pmk. You gone into hiding? Or are you just lining up your next salvo of anti-French and anti-Houllier slurs despite today's events?
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
Really good read there.
Abit worrying though, he seems to indicate that Houllier has always had a problem with player disliking him.
He also has the opinion that success early in the managers tenure usually means you have time when things get abit rough. Houllier is on thin ice then Jamo!
Does anyone seriously think any of the Man U players would want to go out to dinner with Ferguson?
I think the difference here is, though I would be willing to bet a good portion of the Man U squad dislike SAF they all respect(/fear) him & want to play for him.
We need to draw a line under this, as todays events have shown GH will be here a good while longer, the signing of Bent & his 20+ goals a season will improve any squad I just wish we had signed him a few seasons ago. Hopefully if he does come results should turn around & make Villa Park a happier place to be.
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We need to draw a line under this, as todays events have shown GH will be here a good while longer, the signing of Bent & his 20+ goals a season will improve any squad I just wish we had signed him a few seasons ago. Hopefully if he does come results should turn around & make Villa Park a happier place to be.
Spot on.
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We've needed a boost this season, it's felt like one problem after the other since the summer. Pretty much since March 2010 TBH.
Still have major doubts about GH, one signing isn't going to alter that.
But the hope is we have a strong finish to the season. Still in the FA Cup too, so plenty to play for.
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Its a fantastic statement of intent but so far, he's not managed to inspire players more talented than Bent to play at their best.
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Disagree Heskey has played his best football at Villa since Houllier arrived.
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I'll concede that one.
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I hope that all our fans really start to get behind Houllier and the team. The biggest way to thank Randy now is show our collective support with some full houses and cheering the team to a few much needed wins.
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If we do sign him, it will be fantastic but I don't think it is necessarily a sign that Houllier is here for the long run, though.
Lerner has always done what he thinks is in the best interests of the club and I'm sure that if, with the signings of Walker, Makoun and Bent, by the end of Feb, we are still no more than a point or two away from the bottom 3, Houllier will be under intense pressure to leave. Perhaps Randy is thinking that getting Bent in now is a good move whoever the eventual manager of the club is.
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Delighted with the transfers so far , randy has backed him with the cash and I believe we can go on a decent run up the table. I see houllier as being here for the long term and now he is getting in some of his players I think results will improve- well done gerard.
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I don't want to pour cold water on the new-found Houllier love-in, but we still haven't won a match in the league since Albion.
If we beat Wigan and somehow avoid defeat to one or other of the Manchester clubs (and not get stuffed against the other), I might start to feel a little more confident.
I'm also long enough in the tooth to have seen enough Record Signing strikers come and go to know that it's easy to spend the money, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the goals you imagine you've somehow guaranteed. First, let's see Bent in a Villa shirt; then let's see a return of a goal every two game between now and the end of the season.
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Hey pmk. You gone into hiding? Or are you just lining up your next salvo of anti-French and anti-Houllier slurs despite today's events?
i never doubted houlliers signings
i just dont like his management, his touchline commitment, his tactical knowledge....
so basically he signs a couple of players and he is the best manager we have ever had?
give it a rest you fool
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Pmk have you seen what houllier has achieved as a manager in his career- his tactical knowledge can hardly be questioned, get off his back and enjoy the good times ahead of us , he is starting to build his team so give him a chance!
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Pmk have you seen what houllier has achieved as a manager in his career- his tactical knowledge can hardly be questioned, get off his back and enjoy the good times ahead of us , he is starting to build his team so give him a chance!
FINALLY, as sensible answer off someone who obvously has intellegence and isnt a snotty , spotty 15 year old wanking over justin beiber..
I know what you mean east, but that was YEARS ago, the english game has changed loads since then, i just think he his "too out of it" to be managing in these times, we needed someone who has managed a club in the premier league more recently..
and for jar jar binks....
cowans should be assistant !!!
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You may be right , but he deserves a chance and time to build a team.
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Might as well dig this up.
If he has failed in his attempt at signing J2M after flying out there to meet him, before a huge game for us then it is almost laughable. Just how shit was that sales pitch?
This couldn't have inspired much confidence with Randy.
Lose against them and I reckon that he will be gone by 6pm Monday.
May as well dig it up again. How's your mate the chef, by the way?
Haha...
Mate let's face it, we're still on the same amount of points as Wigan, we didn't beat the Blues when really we should of wiped the floor with them. He's signed a couple of players doesn't mean we are out of the shit yet. So let's not get too carried away, you don't get points for spending money.
Will have to say I was wrong, I thought the club wouldn't back him, clearly they have. So now we have to back him and give him our full support. I'm allowed not to like him though.
The chefs maintain that before KO he isn't in the changing room and on match days he spends an awful lot of time away from the team. As Rafa Benitez would say 'It'z ee facht'
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David James' column in The Observer today about managers (and Houllier & Grant specifically) worth a read:
http://bit.ly/h9EYxy
Really good read there.
Abit worrying though, he seems to indicate that Houllier has always had a problem with player disliking him.
He also has the opinion that success early in the managers tenure usually means you have time when things get abit rough. Houllier is on thin ice then Jamo!
Does anyone seriously think any of the Man U players would want to go out to dinner with Ferguson?
I think the difference here is, though I would be willing to bet a good portion of the Man U squad dislike SAF they all respect(/fear) him & want to play for him.
We need to draw a line under this, as todays events have shown GH will be here a good while longer, the signing of Bent & his 20+ goals a season will improve any squad I just wish we had signed him a few seasons ago. Hopefully if he does come results should turn around & make Villa Park a happier place to be.
I think the point is the Man U players want to play for Man U, win lots of medals and earn lots of money. Yes they probably respect/fear Ferguson.
But I doubt players suddenly respect or fear a manager when he first arrives. They might be cautious because he might not like the player, or if they know he is going to upset their apple cart, they might just try to get rid of him soonest, or they might just kick back at his methods and resist the changes, the most experienced of them anyway. That might be what happened to us.
Then after a while they realise the boat they are all in is sinking and they are on contracts for 2 or more years at salaries they wouldn't get elsewhere. They want to play, new players start coming in. The Chairman makes it clear the manager is staying, so they get on with it.
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FINALLY, as sensible answer off someone who obvously has intellegence and isnt a snotty , spotty 15 year old wanking over justin beiber..
The irony is overwhelming. If you're trying to have a dig at others, it's probably best if you are able to spell intelligence, and obviously.
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Well done Gerard, obviously showed Darren how ambitious we are.
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FINALLY, as sensible answer off someone who obvously has intellegence and isnt a snotty , spotty 15 year old wanking over justin beiber..
The irony is overwhelming. If you're trying to have a dig at others, it's probably best if you are able to spell intelligence, and obviously.
and Bieber,
and theres nothing wrong with a bit of Justin Bieber fever
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He's certainly signed some ace players.
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Pmk have you seen what houllier has achieved as a manager in his career- his tactical knowledge can hardly be questioned, get off his back and enjoy the good times ahead of us , he is starting to build his team so give him a chance!
FINALLY, as sensible answer off someone who obvously has intellegence and isnt a snotty , spotty 15 year old wanking over justin beiber..
I know what you mean east, but that was YEARS ago, the english game has changed loads since then, i just think he his "too out of it" to be managing in these times, we needed someone who has managed a club in the premier league more recently..
You do realise he has continued his career with Lyon and won the French league?
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Well done GH, all we need now from you is to conjure up a decent left back and this season will get back on track!
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Well I wanted him out after the Sunderland game, but for a man who has been out the game so long he certainly knows what he wants and doesn't mess around in getting them!
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I just don't get the "he's been out of it too long" argument when it is obvious that his methods are more modern than MON's and his tactics are more sophisticated. Yes, GH has weak points, but every attainable manager has. Signing players doesn't make him the best manager around, but it shows that he has a clear idea about where we need strengthening -- ie what we lack to be a better football team. Those who have claimed that he is a useless clown are wrong. One piece of evidence is that fact that he has persuaded Bent that he is better off here than at the club that are currently sixth.
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He's out of touch with the modern game so much he signs Bent & Walker & Makoun, he's not a mug I just hope he can get the players playing the way he wants, to get these players he must be saying something right.
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I'm still not convinced he's got the right motivating skills to get us out of trouble and take us on, but Bent and Walker are very good signings to be fair.
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houllier trying to say gabbys surname - 1min .30 sec
tickles me every time i hear it
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2011/01/19/video-darren-bent-and-gerard-houllier-press-conference-97319-28011307/
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i enjoyed that! but then i cannot say it either. looking into the man and his methods though i did think his "mobile phone off NOW please" was a bit of an insight....
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Its a funny old game, after we played City over Christmas I was in the 'sack him' camp, since then Houllier has been impressive. Firstly we had his "I'll pay the fine" after the Chelsea game, which was brilliant and now the way he has stood up for the club against Bruce and Holloway on SSN was brilliant, big club mentality. Not forgetting his part in bringing in Makoun and Bent, Im very impressed at the moment, I just hope he can get a few results now to really take the pressure of himself and stop the twats on facebook!!
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Sorry; could someone explain the 'i'll pay the fine' and 'mobile phone off NOW please' comments to me? Must have missed them both at the time...
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After the Chelsea game when he was told about the fine for getting too many bookings he said that he would pay the fine if we got one. As it goes I dont remember us getting one, was still a nice touch tho.
As for the mobile thing, I have no idea!
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Decent bit of business thus far in Jan.
A feature of management should be the ability to get the best (or at least a decent reaction) out of your available resources. He hasn't done it with the players he inherited, lets be frank. But maybe he'll feel more motivated and will -in turn- start firing up the playing personnel with his own players on board.
I'm still not sold on him, I must admit. Always respected him rather than liked him at other clubs. And he does seem to have a chronic case of foot in mouth.
Signing players is one thing, he now needs to ensure we show more resolve defensively and more quality in the final third in the last phase of the season. I'm back to where I was in Oct/Nov, thinking I wouldn't mind him seeing things through until the end of the season and being reasonably confident he can at least keep us up. Whereas at the end of Dec/ early Jan I thought a parting of the ways was inevitable.
I still wouldn't be distraught seeing a change of manager early summer, in a less fraught and frantic scenario than we faced last August.
The Makoun and Bent signings don't alter that for me. They're good players and a good manager coming in should still be able to work with them (and the rest) and get a decent response.
That said, if we have a strong finish to the season I wouldn't begrudge GH getting another crack at it next year.
It's up to him from this point onwards.
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Houllier is not with us long term as manager, he has been bought in to restructure the side and get rid of the high paid rubbish that Oneill left us with. The scouting situation is now being dealt with and i can see after about three years he may be used in a different way at the club.
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He told the press to turn off their mobiles as the press conference started - I hope he is here at least the 3 yrs of his contract, I think he will achieve great things here with us and hope people chant his name in a positive manner tomorrow- we are in this together , let's show milner what he's missing and stuff those mancs!
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When I read this just now, I started to find myself warming to GH for the first time
However, the former Liverpool and Lyons manager is not overly concerned by the grievances of his counterparts. "When I heard it first of all, I thought it was not gracious, and our club has been more gracious in a previous situation [with Gareth Barry and James Milner]," he added. "I thought, 'Hang on a second, why is he [Bruce] having a go at me?' Is he trying to protect himself from his fans? All he has got to do is say this is football now.
"He has made transfers before. I'm not culpable in any way. If he feels that, well, I feel sorry for that. I was kept informed, I assume he was kept informed. We did the right thing. The same with Ian Holloway. We did the right thing, we went to the club, we didn't go to the player and, funny enough, it came out from their side.
"There was nothing from Aston Villa, and he said we are insulting him and the player and God knows what. By the way, I don't care"
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Slowly but surely he is growing into the role.
If we start upon a decent run of results then things will start looking up, the pressure upon him will dissipate and the fans will be completely won back.
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When I read this just now, I started to find myself warming to GH for the first time
However, the former Liverpool and Lyons manager is not overly concerned by the grievances of his counterparts. "When I heard it first of all, I thought it was not gracious, and our club has been more gracious in a previous situation [with Gareth Barry and James Milner]," he added. "I thought, 'Hang on a second, why is he [Bruce] having a go at me?' Is he trying to protect himself from his fans? All he has got to do is say this is football now.
"He has made transfers before. I'm not culpable in any way. If he feels that, well, I feel sorry for that. I was kept informed, I assume he was kept informed. We did the right thing. The same with Ian Holloway. We did the right thing, we went to the club, we didn't go to the player and, funny enough, it came out from their side.
"There was nothing from Aston Villa, and he said we are insulting him and the player and God knows what. By the way, I don't care"
Ha! Yup, he did well.
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One thing I will say about GH, if he targets a player he doesn't seem to mess about. If you look at a fair few of MON's signings, they were quite convenient for the selling club at the time. Boro had gone down and needed to cash in on Downing; NRC and Harewood fell out of favour with Curbishley at West Ham, ditto Dunne at Citeh, Chelsea weren't exactly distraught to see Sidwell go and so on.
Exceptions to that might be Warnock, Heskey and Milner, though there was little acrimony with those deals.
So far we've seen GH target players that their club at time did not (in the case of Adam still don't) want to part with, they're obviously going to be a bit pissed.
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As recently his action made me think hang on he might not be too bad and let give him a chance to stamp his authority and we will get better. We want instant fix but it can't be done that quickly.
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Mods is it possible to clear the existing poll and start again? Would be very interested to see how the voting goes now.
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Yes.
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My view is the same as before, back him.
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As is mine.
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Back him I've always said judge him on his squad not what he inherited
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Hey pmk. You gone into hiding? Or are you just lining up your next salvo of anti-French and anti-Houllier slurs despite today's events?
i never doubted houlliers signings
i just dont like his management, his touchline commitment, his tactical knowledge....
so basically he signs a couple of players and he is the best manager we have ever had?
give it a rest you fool
Yes, that's it. Those that backed him called him the best manager we ever had. Off course we did.
sir, can I offer you some coffee with your humble pie tonight?
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Well, you can't knock the impact of his first signing (that has been able to play), and you can't knock the impact of his loanee (was Walker injured today?). You really can't start to judge a manager until he is playing with the players and the tactics he wants, today was a good start.
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It seems to me that at some stage in the past couple of weeks Gezza's realised what sort of club he's at and how well he could do here.
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Back him I've always said judge him on his squad not what he inherited
This is my opinion as well. We have to give him a chance to put his team together and then its fair to judge.
There are signs things are turning round and I think he will do well for us.
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There has been a few Gloomy moments this season and it has been very easy to forget when MON left when he did, forget the injury crisis, forget players not willing to put a shift in for the new manager and its been too easy to blame Houllier. He even got blamed for the injuries!
I for one think who ever stepped in would have had a rough ride taking over when they had no chance to stamp their own mark on the squad.
Now he's made a few additions it has shown his and Randy's intent for the future.
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It seems to me that at some stage in the past couple of weeks Gezza's realised what sort of club he's at and how well he could do here.
That's good, but it is going to take much more than one good result today for people to start believe in him.
Build on today's result, create a platform, that's what the best managers would do, and that is what he's got to do. If we go to Wigan in the week and put in a performance like the Sunderland home game after the Chelsea display, with Man United away up next, it will all be wasted.
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I think we have to get a positive result at Wigan. They will be scrapping and fighting as much as us though, so it won't be easy.
I hope he has a good night tonight though. I like him, and continue to like him. Despite his fettish for Stewart Downing.
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It seems to me that at some stage in the past couple of weeks Gezza's realised what sort of club he's at and how well he could do here.
He should have known that from the outset.
I also got the feeling that he bought into the mindset and philosophy most Villa fans had this season post- August. That is, this season doesn't really matter. It's one of transition, and even if we lose a few we've got plenty in the tank to comfortably finish mid table this year. Just potter about with team selection and experiment a bit.
Only problem with that is when you go on a not winning streak (starting with not closing those games out v Fulham and Man U) that then turns into a losing streak, it's very hard to arrest that. As we've seen.
Injuries haven't helped him at times this season, of course. But there have still been some questionable selection policies and teams.
Lets put all that behind us though.
He'll have hopefully learnt (if he was ever in any doubt) that if you gain an advantage in a match you do all you can to hold onto it. This is one of the toughest leagues in the world -and has probably became a good deal harder since he's been away.
When he was last in England, top 4 was generally relatively easy to secure for a side with Liverpool's budget. And even a team like ours finishing around 6th-8th, as we often did during that era, would have enough winnable games in the season to be comfortable. Unless we were chronically underperforming ourselves.
Now there are no gimmie's. Sides like the Olbiyun and Blackpool can go to Arsenal and Liverpool respectively and roll them over.
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I hope he pulls his socks up, otherwise we mayhave this waiting for us:
Benitez wants Prem return - and could walk into Villa post
Rafa Benitez would like to return to the Premier League – and he could end up replacing under-fire Gerard Houllier at Aston Villa.
Former Liverpool boss Benitez is out of work after losing his job at Italian giants Inter Milan after seven months.
Benitez said: “The priority is the Premier League. To have a project, a business plan of what you want to do and how to improve a club. It must be a good club.”
Benitez also backed Kenny Dalglish’s return to Anfield.
He added: “It will be much better with Kenny because he knows the club and what the fans want. He can talk with the players and they will feel and understand what it means to be a Liverpool player.
“Kenny has been a very good appointment and, hopefully, it will be a successful one.”
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Former-Liverpool-boss-Rafa-Benitez-has-Aston-Villa-post-in-his-sights-after-admitting-he-wants-a-return-to-the-Premier-League-article679729.html
Quite incredible, extrapolating that headline from those quotes.
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I also got the feeling that he bought into the mindset and philosophy most Villa fans had this season post- August. That is, this season doesn't really matter. It's one of transition, and even if we lose a few we've got plenty in the tank to comfortably finish mid table this year. Just potter about with team selection and experiment a bit.
Only problem with that is when you go on a not winning streak (starting with not closing those games out v Fulham and Man U) that then turns into a losing streak, it's very hard to arrest that. As we've seen.
That's interesting, as one reporter told me that during the depths of the injury crisis he seemed totally unconcerned about it. Maybe he did think we could busk through, forget about the harder games then pick up enough points in the 'easier' ones towards the end of the season to finish reasonably safely. Then maybe some of the appalling displays over Christmas made him change his mind.
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West Ham would be perfect for him.
Edit: Rafa that is, not GH.
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It seems to me that at some stage in the past couple of weeks Gezza's realised what sort of club he's at and how well he could do here.
That's good, but it is going to take much more than one good result today for people to start believe in him.
Build on today's result, create a platform, that's what the best managers would do, and that is what he's got to do. If we go to Wigan in the week and put in a performance like the Sunderland home game after the Chelsea display, with Man United away up next, it will all be wasted.
Absolutely. One swallow doesn't make a summer. We need to get a run and pull away from the others. Get nothing from Wigan and things look bleak again.
IF we get that run then things will look up and we can build for next season under Hotlips.
Benitez? So when he gets sacked inside a few months do we employ Uncle Woy and then King Kenny?
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless. We need to do a lot more before he convinces me he is the right man for the club, his start was abysmal. However as I said before Randy has backed him so we have to.
Benitez? Please for fuck sake no, I read RAWK regularly and can't comprehend how big the 'love-in' would be if he returned.
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It's no coincidence that in the last few weeks Petrov has returned to fitness, and all of a sudden we're defending better. He provides a layer of protection in front of the centre backs that is only really noticed when he's not there. He was injured in GH's 5th game at Sunderland and up to that point we'd played some decent stuff under the new manager and battled for points at Wolves and defended similarly to today when holding Chelsea at home, a game Petrov was outstanding in.
For all the problems we've had with injuries he's been the biggest miss. We defend much better with him in the side, and once you start defending better fortunes improve - as they are doing.
It was only ever going to be fair to judge GH when he had senior players like Petrov fit and available again. The previous manager would have struggled without him.
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Personally I havnt been this excited about a Villa team for a while.Its certainly a transition time and todays win was massive.
You cant argue with the 3 signings so far.Bent,Walker and I'm sure the African muscle in mid-field will see us well.
Manure will be the acid test,even a 2-1 kind of loss would tell us we are on the up.Wigan is a must win game to ensure some kind of momentum otherwise its doom and gloom again.
I like to think today was the start of a new Villa Folk Hero, our first 25+ goal a season man since the days of Gray/Little/Deehan. How on the pulse and brave is Randy to make that move, he must have paid off 5 million of that fee already.
Great stuff, the youngsters have been a little forgotten but with Bannan,Clark,Hogg,Lichaj,Delph in the wings,Im excited and hopeful again.We are gathering a squad of real quality with some very dangerous exciting players. If the defence can be as strong as today then we are going to really raise some eyebrows.I reckon we could do well in the FA Cup too, maybe even win the fucker.
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless.
Bollocks.
It's worth three points totally regardless of what we do against Wigan.
You don't want to give Hotlips any credit do you?
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A win at Wigan and we would be 2 points off 7th place , how can anyone say today's win will be worthless if we lose at Wigan? Today was great for confidence and 3 very good points, I really hope his critics get off his back and give houllier time and chance- he can achieve great things for our club .
Yes , Wigan is huge but given how tight the table is and the fact we have only 2 of our last 15 games against top 6 teams then we gave every chance to move up considerably in the coming weeks, we are at this moment 5 points off 7th and have everything still to play for.
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What we all have to understand is that there will be more ups and downs before we have established ourselves again, that's why i said the poll would be interesting after yesterdays result. I am more confident of Villa challenging for a top position now than i was for the last two years of O'Neills tenure. The next item on GEDs agenda should be persuading AY to sign a new contract, that would convince most that we are back on track.
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The difference in performance in the two games against MC is quite remarkable and while I have misgivings about GH's ability to improve on the previous managers achievments, he deserves enormous credit for the turnaround.
The backing from Lerner cannot be underestimated either, his vindication of his manager has seen positivity blow through the club like a hurricane. In the face of some utterly unjustified and disrespectful criticism the club, and in particular the manager, have acted with great dignity.
And the team selection last night was a brave move in a vital game that paid off.
Questions still remain about GH and his staff, but considering the staggering change in such a short space of time, Houllier has more than earned the right to continue in his role.
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It's no coincidence that in the last few weeks Petrov has returned to fitness, and all of a sudden we're defending better. He provides a layer of protection in front of the centre backs that is only really noticed when he's not there. He was injured in GH's 5th game at Sunderland and up to that point we'd played some decent stuff under the new manager and battled for points at Wolves and defended similarly to today when holding Chelsea at home, a game Petrov was outstanding in.
For all the problems we've had with injuries he's been the biggest miss. We defend much better with him in the side, and once you start defending better fortunes improve - as they are doing.
It was only ever going to be fair to judge GH when he had senior players like Petrov fit and available again. The previous manager would have struggled without him.
Petrov has his faults but he's our most under rated player (by our fans) by an absolute mile. He was the only vaguely defensive midfielder in a side that finished 6th and had one of the best defensive records in the league last year.
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless.
Bollocks.
It's worth three points totally regardless of what we do against Wigan.
You don't want to give Hotlips any credit do you?
I said it was a good result surely that's credit, no? I'm just not pissing my pants with excitement as we have won one game! We didn't exactly batter them did we, infact we played like a (and whisper it quietly) MON team, get a goal and defend/counter with a direct approach. The system that clearly suits this set of players, why has he not had us playing like this for the past 4 months?
We now have a cushion between us and the shit at the bottom if we lose to Wigan we lose that cushion with a difficult tie at Manchester United coming up. So it is imperative we get a result at Wigan to ensure nobody has the chance to close the gap. A loss at Wigan would undo the good work yesterday.
On a side note why do you call him Hotlips?
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless.
Bollocks.
It's worth three points totally regardless of what we do against Wigan.
You don't want to give Hotlips any credit do you?
I agree, but I think he means we were all expecting 3 points from Man city and the Wigan game, so if we lose to Wigan, Man City was for nothing.
But I've very confident of beating Wigan, Caldwell suspended aswell.
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On a side note why do you call him Hotlips?
Houllier sounds a bit like Houlihan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Houlihan)?
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The jury is still out. We've seen a gradual improvement, but it needs to be sustained in order for it to make any difference to our plight. What I will say is that Houllier fully understands the power of a transfer, which is something MON just never got. Here we are, a full week before the end of January, and we've got a record-signing striker who's already scored in the claret and blue, a good midfield signing waiting to make his debut, and an exciting full-back on loan.
The Bent transfer is so much more than just a player. It's a symbol. It's a statement of intent, proof for the fans and other clubs that we're serious; proof to our players that we're committed to climbing the table. It's lifted the whole club. Where MON would have signed three nobodies on high wages, Houllier has understood the impact of at least one huge and timely signing, and look at the results. I hope it continues.
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless.
Bollocks.
It's worth three points totally regardless of what we do against Wigan.
You don't want to give Hotlips any credit do you?
In a nutshell Dave, some are finding it hard to put away their sharpened knives.
He's had a full squad for 3-4 games, brought in 3 players 2 of whom have played and the performances have improved.
The limitations of Mons squad have been obvious for some time, the dependence on kids due to injuries means a bottom 3 placing, wonder what Gen K's view on that is.
Now the full squad is back, they are getting there, they can do it as Utd, Chelsea, and now Man City have shown, they just have to keep doing it because some of those below us are improving too.
What difference will Makoun make, I wonder.
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I have got to say Houllier is really impressing me at the moment. I have always been a fan of his appointment. But I mentioned he needed to shake off the cushy role and mentality at the FFF he was used to.
Since the Man City away game (0-4) he seems to have a real fire in his belly and a real passion for the club. His press conferences show this.
Keep it up!
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People talk about having the injured players back and bringing a few of his own in, but I don't think that's the total difference.
What I've seen of late is a much better mentality from the players, evidenced when we went behind at the Sty and when we were up against it in the 2nd half on Saturday. They were fighting for each other and looked like a team, which I think has been the biggest flaw since Gezza took over.
If it continues, along with the quality in the side, we'll climb the table and then be a force next year.
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I have got to say Houllier is really impressing me at the moment. I have always been a fan of his appointment. But I mentioned he needed to shake off the cushy role and mentality at the FFF he was used to.
Since the Man City away game (0-4) he seems to have a real fire in his belly and a real passion for the club. His press conferences show this.
Keep it up!
I have to agree. The stick he has been getting from Elephant Man and Gollum seems to have stoked the fire and together with the backing from Randy I think he really fancies the job now. Onwards and upwards.
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I also liked seeing him making the players go over to the fans after the blues game. It's only a very small thing, but always good to see.
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I also liked seeing him making the players go over to the fans after the blues game. It's only a very small thing, but always good to see.
He did it after Chelsea as well.
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I think the criticism he got after Liverpool stung him a bit, or he realised he'd built up a groundswell of bad PR with us.
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I think the criticism he got after Liverpool stung him a bit, or he realised he'd built up a groundswell of bad PR with us.
He has done well to recover form that (in most sane people's eyes). Although results do/will help.
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Good result but if we don't get a result at Wigan it will be completely worthless.
Bollocks.
It's worth three points totally regardless of what we do against Wigan.
You don't want to give Hotlips any credit do you?
In a nutshell Dave, some are finding it hard to put away their sharpened knives.
He's had a full squad for 3-4 games, brought in 3 players 2 of whom have played and the performances have improved.
The limitations of Mons squad have been obvious for some time, the dependence on kids due to injuries means a bottom 3 placing, wonder what Gen K's view on that is.
Now the full squad is back, they are getting there, they can do it as Utd, Chelsea, and now Man City have shown, they just have to keep doing it because some of those below us are improving too.
What difference will Makoun make, I wonder.
I have put my knife away.
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I think the criticism he got after Liverpool stung him a bit, or he realised he'd built up a groundswell of bad PR with us.
He has done well to recover form that (in most sane people's eyes). Although results do/will help.
It did sting him, he looked close to tears in the press conference when asked why he hadn't explicitly said he was sorry.
It's all down to results in the end though. The improvement in results and performances, and the signing of Bent, are giving him the chance to redeem himself.
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I also liked seeing him making the players go over to the fans after the blues game. It's only a very small thing, but always good to see.
He did it after Chelsea as well.
Players should 'nt have to be told to come over to fans at away games, it's a shame he has to do it.
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Did you see him when Bent scored.. There was passion there....
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Did you see him when Bent scored.. There was passion there....
Yes that was good to see. He must have been a relieved man.
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I think the criticism he got after Liverpool stung him a bit, or he realised he'd built up a groundswell of bad PR with us.
He has done well to recover form that (in most sane people's eyes). Although results do/will help.
It did sting him, he looked close to tears in the press conference when asked why he hadn't explicitly said he was sorry.
It's all down to results in the end though. The improvement in results and performances, and the signing of Bent, are giving him the chance to redeem himself.
The CEO was probably squeezing his nuts at the time, thats why ! :'(
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Since the Manchester City debacle we've played away three times, undefeated, and come back from behind in the two league games. At home we had Sunderland, where we never looked like losing until Heskey got sent off and Bardsley had his Chris Price at Highbury moment, and Saturday.
It's probably a combination of many things - pride, realising he'd tried to change things too quickly, shipping out some rotten eggs, new players, long-term injuries getting match-fit.
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I am impressed with how we are going about our transfer business. I also think that when we qualify for europe again our chances of progressing will be far greater
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The jury is still out. We've seen a gradual improvement, but it needs to be sustained in order for it to make any difference to our plight. What I will say is that Houllier fully understands the power of a transfer, which is something MON just never got. Here we are, a full week before the end of January, and we've got a record-signing striker who's already scored in the claret and blue, a good midfield signing waiting to make his debut, and an exciting full-back on loan.
The Bent transfer is so much more than just a player. It's a symbol. It's a statement of intent, proof for the fans and other clubs that we're serious; proof to our players that we're committed to climbing the table. It's lifted the whole club. Where MON would have signed three nobodies on high wages, Houllier has understood the impact of at least one huge and timely signing, and look at the results. I hope it continues.
Agreed Jimbo.
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Since the Manchester City debacle we've played away three times, undefeated, and come back from behind in the two league games. At home we had Sunderland, where we never looked like losing until Heskey got sent off and Bardsley had his Chris Price at Highbury moment, and Saturday.
It's probably a combination of many things - pride, realising he'd tried to change things too quickly, shipping out some rotten eggs, new players, long-term injuries getting match-fit.
Agreed. Getting players back was the biggest key for me, especially Petrov. (yes, I know he played at City, but he was only just returning).
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Gerry turned it round and i'm loving it that hes in charge
Love how he doesn't take any shit from the players, and is able to attract quality players to the club
Not afraid to play kids and plays brave tactics, i can't wait to see us play under him after he has a summer to really make the team his
Really happy for him, just a shame some fans decided to tell him he was going to get sacked in the morning without giving him a proper chance, although i'm sure he has thick enough skin to get over it.
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Gerry turned it round and i'm loving it that hes in charge
Love how he doesn't take any shit from the players, and is able to attract quality players to the club
Not afraid to play kids and plays brave tactics, i can't wait to see us play under him after he has a summer to really make the team his
Really happy for him, just a shame some fans decided to tell him he was going to get sacked in the morning without giving him a proper chance, although i'm sure he has thick enough skin to get over it.
Despite all that, there's no way we should be down where we are. The criticism he got was understandable and in some cases justified, we have been shockingly bad at times this season. Let's hope we've turned the corner.
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Think a lot of people who wanted him out,can now see all the things he has had to overcome. He has been on the ball in the window and now we will see the best from him now he is earning everyone`s respect .....PS Except Holloway-Bruce ha ...
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Injuries clearly had an impact but it also appears that he's managed to show them he's the boss. All of those negative stories of player unrest and unhappiness with his methods have dried up and the improved team spirit has been reflected in performances.
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
I won't hold my breath.
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
Bugger me all I want him to do is win matches not resolve the economies of other countries
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
Bugger me all I want him to do is win matches not resolve the economies of other countries
Liked this one hehe
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
I won't hold my breath.
I get the impression there is only one man who can resolve those issues, and he has chosen not to thus far.
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Injuries clearly had an impact but it also appears that he's managed to show them he's the boss. All of those negative stories of player unrest and unhappiness with his methods have dried up and the improved team spirit has been reflected in performances.
This is it, I think. What better way to show he's calling the shots than by spending some 30m on new players. Must have shown some of the more intransigent players that he's here to stay and they better buck up if they want to play a part.
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Interesting comments from GH:
"You can't prepare for a game if someone is pulling a face - it drains the energy. And there was a time when the players playing were moaning and whining.
"We probably have the best job in the world so when you see unhappy people not doing basic things, like being focused and ready, you get angry."
Houllier is pleased with his team's improvement since the turn of the year, adding: "We were probably at our lowest when we played there.
"But in five games since the start of year, we've won two, one away in the FA Cup and one against Manchester City, who are one of the best sides.
"We've drawn two, at Chelsea and Birmingham, coming from behind. I think a couple of months ago it would have been the other way around.
"We have lost to Sunderland, when we were down to 10 men.
"The team is physically and mentally stronger - that is an important aspect. There's a major change there.
"But we have to stay humble. Players must combine ambition and humility - that's the cocktail to win."
New signing Jean Makoun, who is set to make his debut at the DW Stadium, has the right temperament for Houllier.
The manager said: "He'll be travelling, he's always happy, not a moody, moaning kind of player."
The central midfielder, signed from Lyon, may even start the match. Villa also welcome back Emile Heskey from suspension, while Kyle Walker returns from a back injury.
However, Stephen Ireland remains sidelined with a knee injury and defender Stephen Warnock, who has been linked with Liverpool, is still training with the reserves and will not feature.
"When you play five games in 14 days you need freshness in some areas...a team isn't 11 players and 11 sulking, everyone's got to know we all contribute."
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
I won't hold my breath.
Me neither but whilst Ireland is out with his knee injury, it wouldn't hurt to make sure he's there to watch the games so he can see how hard the players work for each other. Why should he be the exception? If he could add hard work to his game, he'd be one hell of a player.
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I do wish he'd shut up. Okay, Gerard, you might just have turned a corner with these players, but please keep it under your hat instead of pissing them off again by telling the world about 'moody, moaning' players - unless, of course, you were only talking about Warnock and Carew. Either way, accentuate the positive.
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I know what you mean, Jimbo. Last weeks "is it because I is French?" had me cringing. He can't help himself. Admittedly he at the end of the press conference said he was joking, but the red tops missed out that line and had headlines of Houllier accusing Bruce of being racist.
I'm sure he's a lovely bloke but he does tend to put his foot in his mouth at least once a week. He should let the football do his talking.
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I must admit, when Houllier took over I was willing to give him a chance. Then we started losing game, after game, after game, and I was starting to lose hope.
There was always a thought in my mind: He may have missed the transfer window, but he's still got the same players as last season (minus Milner, of course), it's still the same team that finished 6th.
However, now that he's managed to get Darren Bent, I think every Aston Villa fan in the country is looking that little bit more forward to his regime. It takes a lot for a player like Bent to be persuaded, especially to a club that are doing considerably worse than his current club.
Now, I'm just looking forward to the rest of the season. I'm looking forward to seeing what our squad can pull from the remaining games, and if Houllier can really get them motivated enough to get a top half finish.
Next season is also on my mind ... and I'm looking damn-well forward to it!
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If he could salvage something from the Ireland situation that would be brilliant.
Bugger me all I want him to do is win matches not resolve the economies of other countries
Brilliant
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I do wish he'd shut up. Okay, Gerard, you might just have turned a corner with these players, but please keep it under your hat instead of pissing them off again by telling the world about 'moody, moaning' players - unless, of course, you were only talking about Warnock and Carew. Either way, accentuate the positive.
I think this 'moaning' dig is aimed purely at Warnock. Why else would he be now training with the reserves? Besides, by all accounts he is a right old whinger and that as well as being shit for most of the season is the reason he's no where near the team.
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I wonder what Warnock did to warrant training with the reserves. I know he's been shit but...
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Houllier seemed to handle the Dunne situation very well & he's back playing very well.
The same could happen with Warnock. He needed dropping, he's been gash.
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I wonder what Warnock did to warrant training with the reserves. I know he's been shit but...
If he is meant to be a whinger, then there's every possibility that he mouthed out of turn once too many, and is being made an example of. No loss either, based on this season's form.
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I wonder what Warnock did to warrant training with the reserves. I know he's been shit but...
Suggest he's been approached by someone that allows him to stay in Liverpool perhaps and go against the new rule that players must live nearer Villa?
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I vaguely remember someone saying on here (I think) a while back that Warnock was a real whingeing git, always moaning about something.
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Cor, he sounds like a right whinger, doesn't he?
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Fair play to Houllier, he is in the press every day giving it the "I'm sorting the Villa lads out" routine and the "How dare you talk about [the Aston Villa manager] like that?" spiel. I don't remember the last time our name was so often mentioned. Not so long ago, you could go on the BBC website every day for a month and still not see "Aston Villa" in the latest news menu, apart from when we played a game. Add to this the MON press fan club and we are up to our nostrils in publicity. It's grrr-eat.
All we need to do now is win the FA Cup and the season will be complete.
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It's ironic how Gerrard has turned it around, yet the man alot of people were suggesting Owen Coyle is having a nightmare, haven't won a game this year yet, 1 point from 15.
3 points tonight please Gerrard
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I don't think he's really turned anything around yet. He have a feel good factor after signing Bent, which he then followed up with a good win, but if the worst happens tonight see what this thread is like tomorrow!
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I don't think he's really turned anything around yet. He have a feel good factor after signing Bent, which he then followed up with a good win, but if the worst happens tonight see what this thread is like tomorrow!
I'd agree with you on that, John.
Spirits have been lifted in the last few games, and the results have improved, but we've still got a fair way to go.
The absolute worst thing tonight would be to repeat the Chelsea -> Sunderland let down (whilst I see the arguments that we could easily have beaten Sunderland, I think that was one of the most insipid, pathetic performances I've seen from us in a long, long time)
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
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i have one crittisim of houllier
he should of bought bent on Jan 1st so he could play in the fa cup for us :-)
apart from that , i like what he is doing
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Well I can see a change. Gone are the demands to sack him, gone are the complaints about players not wanting to play for him, gone are the talk that he has no clue tactically, gone are the much vaunted kids who got us into the mire, in have come 3 decent signings although I can't really comment on Makoun he does seem to be rated by many, you see little suggestion we are already relegated now, and the performances have got better.
Yes, as I said a few days back, if we do a Chelsea- Sunderland at Wigan, you'd wonder, but then maybe we'll break Utd unbeaten run, who knows. It will be a hard slog, no question, there are still of matters that need sorting, but things have changed, for the better.
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
Winning against City, drawing at Blues, and Chelsea mean nowt then. 1 defeat in the last 4 games, isn't bad, considering the opposition. Many said, before Chelsea we'd lose them all and be relegated by now.
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Well I can see a change. Gone are the demands to sack him, gone are the complaints about players not wanting to play for him, gone are the talk that he has no clue tactically, gone are the much vaunted kids who got us into the mire, in have come 3 decent signings although I can't really comment on Makoun he does seem to be rated by many, you see little suggestion we are already relegated now, and the performances have got better.
Yes, as I said a few days back, if we do a Chelsea- Sunderland at Wigan, you'd wonder, but then maybe we'll break Utd unbeaten run, who knows. It will be a hard slog, no question, there are still of matters that need sorting, but things have changed, for the better.
Calm down though fella lose tonight and we have the same amount of points as Wigan who are a f**king awful side.
As I said before we have no choice but to support him as the board has. Randy backs him so we have to. There are still people who aren't overly keen on him, personally I think he isn't the right manager for the job but in Randy we trust.
Let's now wait until the end of the season and decide if he has been a success or failure (I thought Randy wouldn't give him the time before) as at this rate every win or loss will be another 5 page debate.
We don't want to look fickle now, do we.
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
Winning against City, drawing at Blues, and Chelsea mean nowt then. 1 defeat in the last 4 games, isn't bad, considering the opposition. Many said, before Chelsea we'd lose them all and be relegated by now.
Many? You sure about that? Or are you, perish the thought, talking shit?
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
Winning against City, drawing at Blues, and Chelsea mean nowt then. 1 defeat in the last 4 games, isn't bad, considering the opposition. Many said, before Chelsea we'd lose them all and be relegated by now.
Chelsea and Man City are four points where we expected none.
Unfortunately, Sunderland was zero points where we had a hope of three.
Funny old game etc etc
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
Winning against City, drawing at Blues, and Chelsea mean nowt then. 1 defeat in the last 4 games, isn't bad, considering the opposition. Many said, before Chelsea we'd lose them all and be relegated by now.
Many? You sure about that? Or are you, perish the thought, talking shit?
If you say so, you seem an expert on the subject
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
Sorry, but any defeat would seriously dent the feel good factor and (hopefully) momentum we've picked up in the lst week.
And yes we can't win everygame, but that's what you say to a Man City fan after Saturday who are used to winning, not to a side like us where the wins are few and far between!
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Have to say, after the Anfield farce I wanted him gone, but a few decent performances (I thought we played well against Sunderland) and the excellent signings have turned me around. Fickle.
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A virtually full squad to chose from tonight "should" see 3 points.Petrov doesn't need to play the whole game with Makoun free to play.Its up to Houllier to rotate tonight.
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A defeat tonight, whatever the manner of it, would be an awful result. All of the optimism and momentum of the last couple of weeks would come to a juddering halt. It wouldn't be the end of the world but it would suggest that we're probably going to be in a relegation fight for the rest of the season.
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A defeat tonight, whatever the manner of it, would be an awful result. All of the optimism and momentum of the last couple of weeks would come to a juddering halt. It wouldn't be the end of the world but it would suggest that we're probably going to be in a relegation fight for the rest of the season.
Agreed.
If we can't dispatch a piss poor Wigan side (minus one of their better players, Caldwell) then that will prove that our problems haven't gone away.
However, I'm expecting a reasonably comfortable win.
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The trouble with Wigan though is they are so unpredictable. They can get hammered at home to Wolves then beat Arsenal away. A win tonight & we'll be talking about europe a defeat & it's relegation, it's a crazy season.
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bruce and holloway having a go at our club has created a bit of a siege mentality. This and some shit journalists mis-reporting our club has brought us closer to GH. Then Bent comes, scores, and now we're all together....we'll beat wigan tonight, get something from man utd, then the next 10 games are all teams that are around us in the league......i've got good feelings about the rest of the season
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It all depends on the defeat, if it is like Sunderland, same tactics as Chelsea no subs etc then he deserves critisim, but if we batter them and they get a lucky goal on the counter then we have still turned it around.
People need to realise we won't win every game, we can't turn on him every time we lose.
I couldn't disagree more. I understand that we won't win every game but if we can't get a result at Wigan we haven't turn anything around.
Winning against City, drawing at Blues, and Chelsea mean nowt then. 1 defeat in the last 4 games, isn't bad, considering the opposition. Many said, before Chelsea we'd lose them all and be relegated by now.
Winning against Man City and drawing at Blues and Chelsea means we have another 5 points. It doesn't mean we have turned a corner any more than taking 6 points from 4 undefeated games in November meant we'd turned the corner.
We'll have turned a corner when we're well clear of the games to points ratio from which teams get relegated. I think the new signings mean we'll get there but we're not there yet.
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For those of us who were involved in that "is GH changing our style debate" and thought he was, it's good news from the world of statistics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/01/ruthless_chelsea_expose_predic.html .
Third lowest number of long balls attempted, beaten only by 'perfect goal' seekers Arsenal and Man City. If that's not a shift in emphasis from the MON days, I don't know what is.
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It's positive.
But tippy tap ineffective Mowbray-style possession football in non threatening areas is no solution either (not say we're doing that, mind).
We currently possess three wingers on the books, all three of them decent (even if we are trying to convert one into a second striker). We also have a fair amount of pace throughout the side. When you have that, you should maximise it.
I have no problem with a well timed long pass or long diagonal ball to set our wingers away. If you draw sides in and hit on the counter at pace you have more space to exploit. The defence would need to be more solid than it's been this season, obv.
My problem with MON is that he didn't mix it up enough, if we were ever in our own half and under pressure, the way to deal with it was to nearly always scuff the ball out and play percentages. Rather than showing a bit of composure and trying to work an opening, pull a side apart from deep.
But part of what he implemented was very effective, and we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We do need to evolve though, and it's doubtful we'd have been able to do that under him.
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For those of us who were involved in that "is GH changing our style debate" and thought he was, it's good news from the world of statistics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/01/ruthless_chelsea_expose_predic.html .
Third lowest number of long balls attempted, beaten only by 'perfect goal' seekers Arsenal and Man City. If that's not a shift in emphasis from the MON days, I don't know what is.
You might be right but that table on its own doesn't explain whether we are using the long ball more or less often than before. We might have a low total number of long passes because we haven't had much possession and our percentage of long passes to short passes may be worse than many other clubs.
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That table shows Stoke below Manchester United...Do Stoke play better football?
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I'll just blindly scream at the claret and blue shirts "GET THE FUCKING BALL IN THE NET", and ignore the stats. Thanks anyway.
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That table shows Stoke below Manchester United...Do Stoke play better football?
No, and the stats are blind. No doubt Man Utd play accurate long passes which Stoke's players can't do, so their long balls are more likely to be 'into the mixer'. Stats are useless without a reference to real life. I just thought it reflected a change that I think I've seen on the pitch, that's all.
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back to back wins in the league another away win, things are better, amazing how a full squad helps.
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some one explain Downing on the right Gabby on the left ?
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some one explain Downing on the right Gabby on the left ?
Six points explains it.
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some one explain Downing on the right Gabby on the left ?
I wonder if part of it is that he knows Gabby's pace and willingness to cover plenty of ground will be useful in helping out the LB behind him in what has been a problem position of late
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The goal made a world of difference to Gabby.
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Im still not Gerards biggest fan. I think I just dont like him. I may warm to him, I may not. Cant explain it really. I still love the club. I hope we can gather some momentum with the recent good results. Things are looking up at last, thanks to some good performances and a bit of belief.
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some one explain Downing on the right Gabby on the left ?
Downing's played on the right for a lot of his villa career, pretty much all of it last season.
Gabby on the left isn't ideal and dosen't suit him but we've got good draws at Chelsea and SHA playing this way and a brilliant 6 points this week so I'm happy for this to continue away from home, certainly he'll play there at Old Trafford next week.
For the rest of our home games though, most of it which are winnable, I'd prefer a more attacking 4-4-2 so Bent and Gabby/Heskey upfront, Albrighton on the right, Young on the left and two from NRC, Petrvo, Downing and Makoun in the centre.
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For those of us who were involved in that "is GH changing our style debate" and thought he was, it's good news from the world of statistics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/01/ruthless_chelsea_expose_predic.html .
Third lowest number of long balls attempted, beaten only by 'perfect goal' seekers Arsenal and Man City. If that's not a shift in emphasis from the MON days, I don't know what is.
To be honest, I always thought the long ball tag when applied to O'Neill was very unfair.
We weren't reliant on the hoof particularly, it was more about the balls whacked in from the wings. Not as easy to do as the hoof, but not much less predictable maybe, but really, not long ball at all.
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For those of us who were involved in that "is GH changing our style debate" and thought he was, it's good news from the world of statistics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/01/ruthless_chelsea_expose_predic.html .
Third lowest number of long balls attempted, beaten only by 'perfect goal' seekers Arsenal and Man City. If that's not a shift in emphasis from the MON days, I don't know what is.
To be honest, I always thought the long ball tag when applied to O'Neill was very unfair.
We weren't reliant on the hoof particularly, it was more about the balls whacked in from the wings. Not as easy to do as the hoof, but not much less predictable maybe, but really, not long ball at all.
one big difference is that Friedel often throws the ball or gives it to the backs, under MON that was rare
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some one explain Downing on the right Gabby on the left ?
Cutting on on their stronger foot, Like Gabby in the first 30 seconds against SHA.
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Since losing to Sunderland at home we have played 5 games with 4 wins and 1 draw and break club transfer record and add 3 players and got rid of Sidwell, Davies and I think the pressure is off for GH for now. Phew. 2 more wins on the trot could see us in top 8. Maybe he isn't too bad now.
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I think if we finish top 10 this season, having had the turmoil we have had, it gives us a decent base to build on next season and GH will have had a season to get his own ways across. He amazingly looks more fresh and younger in every interview at the moment!
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It was easy to underestimate the damage that O'Neill caused by his walkout as it was all the injuries we suffered plus the change in the players routine that put some offside. Most will agree that Houlliers purchases have made us a stronger unit and at last a more united one as a squad. He is getting the wage bill down and improving us at the same time not a mean feat.
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For those of us who were involved in that "is GH changing our style debate" and thought he was, it's good news from the world of statistics:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/01/ruthless_chelsea_expose_predic.html .
Third lowest number of long balls attempted, beaten only by 'perfect goal' seekers Arsenal and Man City. If that's not a shift in emphasis from the MON days, I don't know what is.
To be honest, I always thought the long ball tag when applied to O'Neill was very unfair.
We weren't reliant on the hoof particularly, it was more about the balls whacked in from the wings. Not as easy to do as the hoof, but not much less predictable maybe, but really, not long ball at all.
We stopped hoofing it last season.
I'm all for a more passing game but I do wish there was a bit more urgency to our game. Hopefully that will come when the players feel more comfortable with the ball, not to mention when confidence is fully restored. We're heading in the right direction.
Not sure if already mentioned but Houllier has really shocked me with some of his team selections. Today was another example. He obviously has a lot of faith with all the squad. It's got to the stage where I haven't a clue who he's going to select; still if he keeps on winning and improving the way we play there'll be no complains from me.
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not one day has gone by when i have woke up and wished we had MOn back as manager,
not even when we were in the bottom 3, not when we were getting thrashed by newcastle, not when everyone was falling out of the pitch,
i dont miss him, i dont miss his style of football, i dont miss his predictable tactics, and i certainly dont miss his turgid efforts in the transfer windows
as for Houllier, i think he's here to build,
i also think he is lucky to have the best crop of youngsters anywhere in the prem, but glad he's not scared of playing them
early days still, but i'm glad Randy stood strong and trusted his judgement in Houllier,
i'm actually getting a bit excited again about watching Villa play, especially with the attacting players we have on view,
and i never felt like that all last season, even though we finished 6th, and got to wembley a couple of times
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There was a lot of frustration a few weeks ago, with calls for his sacking.
A lot of us were saying judge him when he had a fit squad to pick from, plus his own signings. Now he has, the results and performances are improving. A bit of confidence back, and we will soon be flying :)
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The signs are certainly looking good for the future. I'm pleased Houllier is not afraid to give the youngsters a chance.
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Houllier, give us a wave!!
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win at Old trafford and the World will be perfect and who knows we might.
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He came in, wasn't quite what we were expecting, made the right noises about finding out it was a massive club that he was going to fall in love with, proclaimed our youth to be the future, quickly put this in motion, a dodgy bunch of first team injuries and an ill fated night at Liverpool had us livid.
For the briefest of moments we worried about relegation, we came back strong at Chelsea with the team playing good football, and the right blend of youth and experience. The predictable first team is now gone and all the squad gets it's chance, we smash our transfer record for Bent and it looks as if Gerrard is trying to build the foundations for a new era, shipping out the almosts.
We'd be mad to not be excited about next season, so give him time.
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Even pmk seems to have been silenced in the last couple of weeks so houllier is clearly doing well- or has he been banned?
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Even pmk seems to have been silenced in the last couple of weeks so houllier is clearly doing well- or has he been banned?
The latter.
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I was actually pleased when he arrived and I mean that, After a few weeks I was thinkin for fuck's sake sack him before he relegates us and now Im pleased to say I was being hasty. Im still not 100% won over yet but the noises he's making are good and the signings he's making are excellent.
I hope it continues, he's getting rid of the right players and signing up the right ones. Long may it continue. If we win at mould trafford I think were made for life :)
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Yes I think bringing in some of his own players and getting rid of some of the alleged bad apples has helped things, I'd hope we can see warnock and Ireland out the door on loan by tomorrow and complete the Bradley deal- the change of tactics , formations and team rotation along with intelligent substitutions have been good to see.
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Not sure if already mentioned but Houllier has really shocked me with some of his team selections. Today was another example. He obviously has a lot of faith with all the squad.
I guess it's down to two things: one, he knows that he has to use the squad. There will be times when he picks an odd team and we lose, and then the knives will be out. However, over the course of the season, more points will be lost by never resting players. Second, GH notices what goes on in training. (According to some, a major difference between GH and MON is that the players are nwo actually training.) If players do well in training, he gives them a chance. As we don't know anything about this, he's bound to surprise us.
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Not sure if already mentioned but Houllier has really shocked me with some of his team selections. Today was another example. He obviously has a lot of faith with all the squad.
Couldn't agree more
I guess it's down to two things: one, he knows that he has to use the squad. There will be times when he picks an odd team and we lose, and then the knives will be out. However, over the course of the season, more points will be lost by never resting players. Second, GH notices what goes on in training. (According to some, a major difference between GH and MON is that the players are nwo actually training.) If players do well in training, he gives them a chance. As we don't know anything about this, he's bound to surprise us.
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Do people think there are signs that we're likely to move to more of a Chelsea style 4-3-3 next season? Did we play that way at Wigan? We sort if did v citeh
If we can keep young, I think we're set for a good year next season. I hope bannan delph and fonz still get game time. Presumably Bradley would be a replacement for NRC?
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Yes , I think he does like the 4-3-3 system although that can quickly interchange to a 4-5-1 , I think houllier likes to vary tactics and formations and it's refreshing.
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I have to say I am very pleased and excited about his work in this transfer window. I know there is an element of risk where Bradley and Makoun are concerned, as Premier League 'virgins', but they certainly come with an impressive pedigree and reputation. Walker is all about potential, while Bent is about as proven a Premier League striker as it is possible to find.
It's all rather refreshing! Of course, the real business is in the playing, I know, but Houllier and Lerner have certainly conspired to make things interesting! I'm confident that we'll make our way steadily up the league table, and play some good stuff along the way.
If, while doing all this, Houllier has also managed to reduce the wage bill (has anyone worked out the 'numbers' for that?!), then that's impressive stuff.
So, a shaky start, a fine January (in transfers and games), and a bright future - I'm quite impressed!
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I'm really glad things have turned around for him. Have to say, I didn't come on here for a while when it was really bad because the level of vitriol towards him from some quarters was so vicious it was almost uncomfortable. Never lost faith (though it was sorely tested!), but the proof will be in these 11 winnable games between February and May.
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Problem is, two unlucky defeats or a flukey own goal and we hover above the relegation zone again.The end of the season is where we ALL have to judge him. One vastly superior quality he has over MON is his dealings in the transfer market. Look how many huge money losing turkeys MON bought in his time, I dont see that with GH.
A favourable cup draw and a visit to Wembley would just brighten the atmosphere even more.
Buying Bent was as bold and positive a move as I've seen for a long time and we have a quality squad of players.
Come On !!!
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I think that yesterday's game brought some positives and proved that GH is turning a corner.
First of all, he has made a sharp rotation, before and during the match, whereas in the previous games we happened to concede later goals to the opponents as he didn't use the subs.
Another important thing is that GH played 2 speed and attacking.minded full-backs, not 2 slow CB, as fullbacks.
Last but not least, Clark played in his proper role of CB.
And so came the first comfortable win of the last three months, the first in which we controlled the play with composure and we didn't have the last 15 minutes of absolute panic.
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Another important thing is that GH played 2 speed and attacking.minded full-backs, not 2 slow CB, as fullbacks.
True, but did anyone else find Walker defensively quite frightening at times?
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The biggest and most influential change appears to be the attitude of the players, from can't be arsed to never say die. Is this down to the manager or the players themselves? I suppose we will never know but ultimately the buck stops with the gaffer so if he was to blame a month ago, he deserves the credit now.
I get the feeling he is coming around to the idea that he has to "work the crowd" so to speak with regards to the fans. Maybe he has changed his approach with the players as well?
Either way, long may it continue.
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Agree paulie, walker is very attack minded similar to dorigo when he first broke through but with experience I think walkers defensive game will improve - he's raw but very good and I hope we sign him.
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Whatever your opinions on Houllier, can whoever starts up this 'Houllier gives us a wave' chant, especially the fat bloke with the squeaky voice in K3 who was leading the 'sacked in the morning' chants please stop it, it must of happened 6 times yesterday.
One chant, one wave per game is sufficient.
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Another important thing is that GH played 2 speed and attacking.minded full-backs, not 2 slow CB, as fullbacks.
True, but did anyone else find Walker defensively quite frightening at times?
Yes
He's raw though isn't he? Only young, he could improve
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I think that's the risk with defenders who love to bomb forward. The other players have to know to cover, and does the player himself know when to go forward and when not to? It's all good and well being great offensively, but you can' be a liablity defensively. I think he's got a lot of talent. It just needs to be managed well to make him a better player in all facets of his game.
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Whatever your opinions on Houllier, can whoever starts up this 'Houllier gives us a wave' chant, especially the fat bloke with the squeaky voice in K3 who was leading the 'sacked in the morning' chants please stop it, it must of happened 6 times yesterday.
One chant, one wave per game is sufficient.
I sat there yesturday, there was a group of kids who were acting like divs, chanting stupid songs, luckily they moved second half.
I totally agree Nev, he got the blame when we were in a crisis, he should now have credit when the team have improved.
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Another important thing is that GH played 2 speed and attacking.minded full-backs, not 2 slow CB, as fullbacks.
True, but did anyone else find Walker defensively quite frightening at times?
Glenn Johnson-esque.
Really reminded me of him at times.
I could imagine him making a decent winger.
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He's a hell of a lot quicker than Johnson.
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He's a hell of a lot quicker than Jonson.
Maybe, but like him, the defensive side of his game is suspect.
Poor marking for Blackburn's goal and he was caught out of position at least 3 times.
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Difference is Walker hasn't cost 18 million pound.
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So now the transfer window has closed, i am glad to say that Houllier has been backed by the Chairman and bought some decent players, along with a couple of good loans, as well as shipping out some of the deadwood. We are now all moving in the right direction.
All we need now is for the performances to continue to improve, as the results have, and i believe we will all be able to fully get behind the manager, and forget that December ever happened, oh and hopefully look forward to seeing what it feels like to win a game in the month of March.
Still a little concerned over his insistence of playing Gabby on the wings, but overall i am feeling much more optimistic about Houllier, you have to admit it was worrying at the time though.
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I have to say I am very pleased and excited about his work in this transfer window. I know there is an element of risk where Bradley and Makoun are concerned, as Premier League 'virgins', but they certainly come with an impressive pedigree and reputation. Walker is all about potential, while Bent is about as proven a Premier League striker as it is possible to find.
It's all rather refreshing! Of course, the real business is in the playing, I know, but Houllier and Lerner have certainly conspired to make things interesting! I'm confident that we'll make our way steadily up the league table, and play some good stuff along the way.
If, while doing all this, Houllier has also managed to reduce the wage bill (has anyone worked out the 'numbers' for that?!), then that's impressive stuff.
So, a shaky start, a fine January (in transfers and games), and a bright future - I'm quite impressed!
Technically Makoun and Bradley are premiership virgins. But Makoun has 46 international caps and Bradley 50. He knows all about Makoun from Lyon and has watched Bradley on four occasions live in the world cup. Do not think it will be hard for them to adjust with that type of experience .......
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Most enjoyable transfer window, so refreshing from the fraught windows under O'Neill.
Not only did we get a striker, a quality young striker at, if Carrolls price is any indication, a bargain price, we brought in 2 defensive holding midfield players and a right back. Its as if he knew what Mon had spent seasons not achieving and just did it.
Same with the exits, something else Mon found hard to achieve, what a relief to see Carew, Sidwell, Davies and the ever smiling git Ireland, all removed from the squad. What relief will that be to the squads moral, here's hoping the two loans become as permanent as the two real deal, even if they do thanks to some atrocious transfer deals, represent a huge loss of revenue.
Whilst I see what you mean Pauli, about Walker, the trade off of a full back who scores goals like he did and who offers so many attacking alternatives as he does, has to be some loss of defensive cover. Perhaps makoun, or one of the others will learn to cover better as time goes on. Interesting that Harry is now down to his reserve reserve cb's and Walker stays with us.
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A good point by sfx there regarding Walker. He's shaping up to be the new Gidman.
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I can cope with one full back that's a bit more cavalier than the other. And currently our left back is one of our highest scorers so he gets forward too.
Makoun and Bradley aren't simply holding midfielders, by the way Malcolmtent. Glad you've sobered up from last night though.
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Walker may be a little cavalier, but Cuellar - if he is at CB, as he should be - is very good at covering the full back. And, as Maz says, we now have better central MF players (as well Albrighton) to cover back.
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He's a hell of a lot quicker than Jonson.
Maybe, but like him, the defensive side of his game is suspect.
Poor marking for Blackburn's goal and he was caught out of position at least 3 times.
After his debut goal and performance maybe expectations are running alittle high. It's worth remembering he's still only 20 years old and learning his trade. The most important thing at the moment is he has the potential.
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During an interview on WM this evening, after being asked about his good record at Scum Trafford, Hou made reference to his "previous team in England".
Along with all the other positives, sometimes the little things count as well.
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Got it badly wrong tactically tonight I felt and the subs were too slow in coming on. Makoun justified his inclusion with a strong performance but nothing else worked really.
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it is difficult to turn round the game after half time though. :(
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Got it badly wrong tactically tonight I felt and the subs were too slow in coming on. Makoun justified his inclusion with a strong performance but nothing else worked really.
I'm quite sure Houllier's tactical approach to tonights game was torn to shreds by conceding a goal inside the first minute. What followed on was reactionary against the best team in England, so I wouldn't put the blame entirely on him.
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During an interview on WM this evening, after being asked about his good record at Scum Trafford, Hou made reference to his "previous team in England".
Along with all the other positives, sometimes the little things count as well.
Yep, heard that aswell and had a wry smile, he's learning.
Tonight was a write off to me, predicted 3-1 to them in the pre match thread and just glad we didn't get smashed like at City so confidence shouldn't be dented too much.
Win on saturday anyway and if as I suspect Sunderland lose at Stoke, then we'll be 6 points off 6th so that will be something to aim for.
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Wow, those poll results are interesting.
What does this tell us? This forum has rational, intelligent, calm, patient posters unlike Villa Talk who are the biggest overreacting people on the planet. Mindless.
Anyways, I'm impressed from what I've been told about our performance tonight. I can take losing to United @ The Theatre of Toads, but putting in a good performance and giving them a game has reassured me. Bent scoring again and Makoun playing well is another positive to take.
HOWEVER; enough is enough. Cuellar's got to start playing in central defence. We always play better defensively with him - less panicky etc... We concede far too many goals - I was surpsied Houllier didn't play Cuellar, usually he's favoured for these type of games. I like what Houllier's doing, getting us passing the ball around playing nicely, made some great signings; he just needs to start playing Cuellar though. It does seem rather silly not playing our best defender. He hasn't been given a chance to fuck up so how can you keep not playing him?
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I still have trouble with Downing on the right and Young in the centre. Add to that having to play a centre half at right back we are allways limiting the space on the pitch. He is useing the squad but does he know his best 11, i dont think so and the new additions means that he is probably some time away from that. we have gone from a very 1 dimensional manager to something different. I guess /hope there is a grand plan. Downing is not a right winger and Young is not a playmaker, that i am sure about.
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Just heard houllier's interview on wm http://t.co/RW6rEvt says about players need to leave their egos in the dressing room - the team comes first, when asked about petrov
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Interested to read that Bradley, bent and makoun all put a great deal of emphasis on the fact that gerard houllier was the manager and that was a huge part in joining villa because they wanted to play under him.
Houllier has a high profile as manager across the globe and Having managed the French national team and also being involved on the staff of their world cup win , he has won major trophies at Liverpool and lyon , so is well known to players abroad , Bradley on the official site and bent in his webcam chat both were full of respect and singing geds plaudits.
Maybe he will attract a higher calibre of player to villa because of his extremely high reputation?
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When you listen to Gerrard & Carragher, they've only got great things to say about GH & have both said that they've done so well because of working under him.
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same for Owen & Heskey.
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When you listen to Gerrard & Carragher, they've only got great things to say about GH & have both said that they've done so well because of working under him.
I remember when Fowler left Liverpool, he metioned the fact that Houllier had the local press onside and would use them to criticise his players.
Who knows what to believe?
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Fowler was trouble though and had run INS with houllier and thommo- he is bound to say that.
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Interested to read that Bradley, bent and makoun all put a great deal of emphasis on the fact that gerard houllier was the manager and that was a huge part in joining villa because they wanted to play under him.
Houllier has a high profile as manager across the globe and Having managed the French national team and also being involved on the staff of their world cup win , he has won major trophies at Liverpool and lyon , so is well known to players abroad , Bradley on the official site and bent in his webcam chat both were full of respect and singing geds plaudits.
Maybe he will attract a higher calibre of player to villa because of his extremely high reputation?
They're hardly going to slate their new manager though are they? Nice to hear but it's all part of the usual cliches trotted out when you've just signed for someone.
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I don't think i'd trust Fowler...
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Nice article written about Houllier in the Athletic - https://theathletic.com/1349765/2019/11/06/gerard-houllier-it-was-life-or-death-for-three-days-there-was-a-risk-i-might-not-make-it-through/
Little bit of insight in to the Villa during his time with us...
So what would have happened at Aston Villa had he not fallen ill during the closing stages of the 2010-11 season?
Villa had endured a difficult period but were showing signs of recovery. Darren Bent proved to be a valuable signing, Kyle Walker impressed on loan and with the right support network, Jean Makoun might well have flourished in midfield.
Michael Bradley, it must be accepted, was a mistake and just didn’t fit in, but with time, Houllier was slowing planning to move from the Martin O’Neill era and create a team that believed in his methods.
His health scare cut that short, though, as owner at the time Randy Lerner decided that he should be replaced.
Houllier had other plans, and offered an alternative, but it fell on deaf ears.
“I wanted to stay at Aston Villa as a sporting director and put Macca [Gary McAllister] in as boss,” he recalls. “The owner didn’t feel the same — he decided he wanted to take Alex McLeish from Birmingham City.“
The Frenchman also explains that exciting plans were already in place for 2011-12, with Villa in the process of lining up four summer signings with the aim of transforming the team. Yohan Cabaye was on the way from Lille, but instead opted for Newcastle United when Houllier was moved on.
“We showed [Cabaye] around Villa Park and he was looking forward to joining,” Houllier says. “He would have improved the team so much.”
Cabaye’s Lille team-mate Gervinho, fresh from firing his club to a surprise Ligue 1 title triumph in 2010-11, had also looked set to move to Villa Park, but instead opted to join Arsenal.
“I knew him from France,” Houllier says of the Ivorian forward. “He had one year left on his deal and he was coming.”
Former Villa defender Gary Cahill — at the time a Bolton player — was also targeted for a return to Villa Park. He stayed put until the following January, when he moved to Chelsea and soon became a European champion.
”Discussions were under way,” Houllier says. “A centre-half was a priority and we felt confident we could get him back. Why Aston Villa let him go in the first place, I’ll never know.”
The final piece of the jigsaw was set to be Blackpool’s Charlie Adam, who had performed superbly in his debut Premier League season.
“Macca said we should go for him,” Houllier continues. “We had to be creative with our recruitment because there wasn’t much money available even though we were losing Ashley Young to Manchester United.
“I had a plan with Macca. If my health had been fine, I would have stayed on as manager and helped develop the talented, young players that we had coming through.
“With my health not fine, I said I will stay in the shadows and help Macca, but that wasn’t to be.
“It could have been a very different outcome in the end because the club has everything in place — the history, the fan base, the stadium, the training ground, and it used to have the players.”
Houllier had inherited a group who were on Champions League wages but unable to actually seal a place in the top four.
Gabby Agbonlahor scored just four goals for the Frenchman and was one of the top earners, although Houllier says the striker, who scored the last goal of his reign in the last minute of that game at Upton Park was “a good player, so fast”.
But others like Stephen Ireland and Stephen Warnock didn’t quite meet his high demands. Both were travelling down from Manchester and the surrounding areas which Houllier wanted to change. Habib Beye also failed to make an impact, and soon moved on.
On top of that there was a drinking culture developing among some players at the club.
“I knew things needed to change,” Houllier admits.
There were players who bought into his methods. The boss admired his captain, Stiliyan Petrov, who he says “understood the demands of modern day football”, and Ashley Young.
“I liked Ashley, he was very professional,” Houllier says of the winger who left for Manchester United in the summer of 2011. “Even though he often drove up from London, he would always be at the training ground on time. Sat there in his Bentley, smiling!”
Houllier hasn’t been back to Villa Park since his exit but says he would like to return soon. In 2015 he watched Aston Villa beat Liverpool at Wembley in the FA Cup semi-final, and recalls being greeted warmly by the supporters of both teams he bumped into on the day.
“Jack Grealish was brilliant,” he says, looking back on Villa’s shock 2-1 victory. “He was a player I was looking at closely when I was at Villa. He was about 15 years old and I knew he had what it takes to succeed.
“Villa had a good academy but there was no long-term vision. They were far behind and bad habits needed to be broken. But change is always difficult to implement and needs time.”
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"I had it all sussed you know. If I hadn't fallen ill...ah well. I couldn't be arsed to come down when you were shite (except when I thought my beloved Reds™ were going to batter you in the semi). I'll be back now you're good again. YNWA."
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A bit harsh, BE.
We all knew he had a lot of time for Liverpool, but, for me, did it really matter?
Things would have been so different had he stayed on with McAlister.
For a start he'd have off loaded the dead wood and wasters, and we wouldn't have endured the McLeish year.
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I would rather have given the McAlister / Houllier another season to see what they could have done, rather than McLeish (who should never have been appointed as manager of our football club)
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The last goal of Houlliers reign? Surely that was Downing Vs Liverpool? Beat them 1-0 on the final day.
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Because what we really need is another 2010-11 debate.
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I would rather have given the McAlister / Houllier another season to see what they could have done, rather than McLeish (who should never have been appointed as manager of our football club)
I still to this day can't work out how you can relegate Small Heath and then immediately get the Villa job. Can you imagine Marco Silva winning the EFL cup this season and then getting Everton relegated only to take over from Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool in the summer.
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Because what we really need is another 2010-11 debate.
Fair point. Debates like this are best left for International breaks and close season when we need to find something to talk about. ;)
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I liked him.
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I liked him.
So did I and would have liked to have seen what he could have done with us as I felt he was moving us in the right direction.
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I didn't like him, thought it was a shit appointment, but by Christ compared to his replacement he was like Rinus Michaels
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I thought he was an arrogant arse and Petrov's story about him makes him look a twat, but as Lee said above, compared to McLeish he was a footballing God.
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He was as good an appointment as you could expect under the circumstances but by the end of the season i was thoroughly unimpressed, despite not wishing him the health issues obviously.
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Couldn't stand the bloke or his constant Liverpool obsession. Touching the Anfield sign as he walked out on to the pitch when we played the Scousers, for crying out loud. He was obviously better than McLeish, but to be honest if he'd have stayed it would all have been a disaster eventually as Lerner's heart clearly wasn't in it.
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A bit harsh, BE.
We all knew he had a lot of time for Liverpool, but, for me, did it really matter? .
It's not the Liverpool stuff. It's all the stuff he did previously in France too. Prize wanker who puts the blame on everyone but himself.
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He was shite, and he made us look incredibly small time with the Liverpool thing and the pathetic surrender at Man City. The fact that his replacements were shite too doesn't change that. Just because I think Boris Johnson is a twat doesn't mean I have to like Theresa May.
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The last goal of Houlliers reign? Surely that was Downing Vs Liverpool? Beat them 1-0 on the final day.
Gary McAllister was manager, not Houllier.
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The last goal of Houlliers reign? Surely that was Downing Vs Liverpool? Beat them 1-0 on the final day.
Gary McAllister was manager, not Houllier.
I honestly forgot about that. Seems a life time ago now. Why did he not last to the final game?
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The last goal of Houlliers reign? Surely that was Downing Vs Liverpool? Beat them 1-0 on the final day.
Gary McAllister was manager, not Houllier.
I honestly forgot about that. Seems a life time ago now. Why did he not last to the final game?
Illness, McAllister took over for much of the second half of the season. Results improved under McAllister particularly in later weeks so we somehow ended up ninth for a finish. McAllisters management career hasn't exactly kicked on since but did a decent job for us that time in tough circumstances.
Some interesting observations from Houllier in the interview about the club at the time but castigating likes of Warnock for not moving closer to Birmingham while not having an issue with Young commuting from London ranks of hyopcricy. Jean Makoun was also one of the worst players, and waste of money, I've seen in a Villa shirt, glossed over above. Bradley did well post Villa if I recall.
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Houllier was surely still technically the manager while he was ill?
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Well, maybe. But he wasn't on the touchline or in the dressing room. So "manager" in name, but not in reality.
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A bit harsh, BE.
We all knew he had a lot of time for Liverpool, but, for me, did it really matter? .
It's not the Liverpool stuff. It's all the stuff he did previously in France too. Prize wanker who puts the blame on everyone but himself.
This. An absolute bellend.
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He is a wanker, but he also by all accounts had a plan that was a fuck of a lot better than 'hire Alex McLeish'. Low bar I know.
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I thought he was an arrogant arse and Petrov's story about him makes him look a twat, but as Lee said above, compared to McLeish he was a footballing God.
At the risk of prolonging this thread, what is the Petrov story?
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
Agreed, that summer Downing went aswell for huge money so Lerner had effectively downed tools by then. McLeish's big signing that summer was that clown Nzogbia. From that summer on, we were firmly circling the relegation drain until the final capitulation in 2016.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
A lot is made of the potential Cabaye purchase, but less is said about his fairly disastrous last few signings for Liverpool, who included Cheyrou, Diao, Diarra, Djiouf and Cisse, who were all a bit on the crap side.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
Agreed, that summer Downing went aswell for huge money so Lerner had effectively downed tools by then. McLeish's big signing that summer was that clown Nzogbia. From that summer on, we were firmly circling the relegation drain until the final capitulation in 2016.
I think that summer McLeish spent a fortune not only on Nzogbia's transfer fee and wages but also on an aging and past his best Shay Given.
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IIRC in the summer McLeish brought in Zog, Given, Hutton, Stevens (signed in the summer but didn't join us until Jan) and Jenas (loan). Keane on loan in Jan and Holman on a Bosman.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
Agreed, that summer Downing went aswell for huge money so Lerner had effectively downed tools by then. McLeish's big signing that summer was that clown Nzogbia. From that summer on, we were firmly circling the relegation drain until the final capitulation in 2016.
I think that summer McLeish spent a fortune not only on Nzogbia's transfer fee and wages but also on an aging and past his best Shay Given.
Think Given may have had a solid enough season under McLeish? Had a horror show at the Euros that summer and if I recall correctly Lambert dropped him for Guzan a few games into the next season after a big mistake. The others were all straight from the bargain basement with a number of big earners leaving.
Enda Stevens has done very well to make it back to the top division since those days.
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Charles Nzogbia *shudders*
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I thought he was an arrogant arse and Petrov's story about him makes him look a twat, but as Lee said above, compared to McLeish he was a footballing God.
At the risk of prolonging this thread, what is the Petrov story?
Basically treated him like shit, ignored him, bullshitted him, and did next to no coaching.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
Agreed, that summer Downing went aswell for huge money so Lerner had effectively downed tools by then. McLeish's big signing that summer was that clown Nzogbia. From that summer on, we were firmly circling the relegation drain until the final capitulation in 2016.
I think that summer McLeish spent a fortune not only on Nzogbia's transfer fee and wages but also on an aging and past his best Shay Given.
Think Given may have had a solid enough season under McLeish? Had a horror show at the Euros that summer and if I recall correctly Lambert dropped him for Guzan a few games into the next season after a big mistake. The others were all straight from the bargain basement with a number of big earners leaving.
They had to be as McLeish had signed 35 year old Shay Given on a 5 (FIVE) year contract.
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
Agreed, that summer Downing went aswell for huge money so Lerner had effectively downed tools by then. McLeish's big signing that summer was that clown Nzogbia. From that summer on, we were firmly circling the relegation drain until the final capitulation in 2016.
I think that summer McLeish spent a fortune not only on Nzogbia's transfer fee and wages but also on an aging and past his best Shay Given.
Think Given may have had a solid enough season under McLeish? Had a horror show at the Euros that summer and if I recall correctly Lambert dropped him for Guzan a few games into the next season after a big mistake. The others were all straight from the bargain basement with a number of big earners leaving.
They had to be as McLeish had signed 35 year old Shay Given on a 5 (FIVE) year contract.
Other than Stevens I'm not sure you can describe the rest as Bargain basement either, Hutton was the best part of £5m and £40k a week, Jenas was a £1m loan fee and his full wage for the season, Keane came in on a big wedge for a couple of months and Zog was £10m and something around £60k a week. Let's also not forget that we paid £3.5m as a fee for Given as well.
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He was as good an appointment as you could expect under the circumstances but by the end of the season i was thoroughly unimpressed, despite not wishing him the health issues obviously.
We really could've done better for a team who finished 6th three times in a row. Summed up the second half of the Lerner era really, not really working harder enough to identify interesting options abroad.
I reckon at that time a Remi Garde style appointment would've made lots of sense (or even in summer 2011 instead of what we got). Houllier was a good manager but was in semi retirement when we got him (managerial equivilant of us signing Robert Pires) and as we saw his health was still an issue.
I can actually remember the Cabaye link. Not sure Charlie Adam or gervinho ones would've worked out though.
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Wasn't the link to Adam when Ian Holloway made his 'half-arsed club that used to be famous' quote?
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I’m a bit sceptical about all these signings that were supposedly lined up, especially considering that all McLeish talked about later that summer was the need to reduce the wage bill.
Although I’d have loved Cabaye in hindsight.
A lot is made of the potential Cabaye purchase, but less is said about his fairly disastrous last few signings for Liverpool, who included Cheyrou, Diao, Diarra, Djiouf and Cisse, who were all a bit on the crap side.
Igor Biscan!
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A while back someone posted a link on H&V to a list of the worst value Premier League signings and a number of Houllier's Liverpool signings were on the list.
As for McLeish the best move he made was Robbie Keane on loan. He scored three goals in six games late on in the season, and we finished only two points ahead of the relegation places.
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A while back someone posted a link on H&V to a list of the worst value Premier League signings and a number of Houllier's Liverpool signings were on the list.
As for McLeish the best move he made was Robbie Keane on loan. He scored three goals in six games late on in the season, and we finished only two points ahead of the relegation places.
Thinking about it that Wolves game was huge. We were 2-1 down at half time and then Keane practically won it on his own with two great goals. Yet another in the long line of players we should've signed earlier in his career.
Few weeks later he went back to MLS, Bent got injured at similar time and we went into freefall (well just drawing games).
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A while back someone posted a link on H&V to a list of the worst value Premier League signings and a number of Houllier's Liverpool signings were on the list.
As for McLeish the best move he made was Robbie Keane on loan. He scored three goals in six games late on in the season, and we finished only two points ahead of the relegation places.
Twas me.
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A while back someone posted a link on H&V to a list of the worst value Premier League signings and a number of Houllier's Liverpool signings were on the list.
I'd be surprised if most of his signings weren't on the list.
He inherited Carragher, Gerrard, Fowler and Owen and they were his best players.
Vastly overrated manager, IMO.
Always sticks in my mind that he threatened to sue Sander Westerveld when he left and said he wasn't given proper support. The arse.
And when we were after Baros in 2005, he said he couldn't understand why Baros would want to go to a mid table club like Aston Villa. That's without even getting into the 7-12 passion-killing when he arrived and Liverpool PR gibberish. At a time when he was being paid very handsomely to manage the finest football club in the world.
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Hypia and Henchoz weren't bad. I think maybe 6 ?? of the team that won the champions league in 2005 were Houllier signings. Although in fairness someone winning the European cup after he left might be proof he was crap!
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I wonder when exactly Lerner made the decision to turn off the tap - I wonder if it came as a response to Houllier's health issues and not wanting to back a spending spree to tempt a more ambitious manager to come, or whether he was planning to do it regardless. If it was the latter, it's rather difficult to believe that Houllier's supposed transfer plans would've come to fruition - I think Cabaye would have happened, that story's been making the rounds for a long time now and I think Cabaye himself said he was ready to come before changing his mind because Houllier was leaving, but that wouldn't have left much money to replace Young and Downing adequately.
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From what's been hinted, it was something Houlier did that made Lerner think that being stitched up two summers in a row was quite enough, thank you very much.
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Cahill only actually signed for Chelsea for 7m in Jan 2012 so he'd have been within our budget.
The strategy really changed in summer 2012. As others have said likes of Hutton, Given, N'zogbia and Jenas were all experienced international players when they signed.
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I can well imagine that after MON fucked him and everyone else over Lerner probably became a paranoid mess. Probably explains why he then went for the unbelievably shit but safe and honest pair of hands in TSM1.
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I can well imagine that after MON fucked him and everyone else over Lerner probably became a paranoid mess. Probably explains why he then went for the unbelievably shit but safe and honest pair of hands in TSM1.
Nothing explains that.
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Cahill only actually signed for Chelsea for 7m in Jan 2012 so he'd have been within our budget.
The strategy really changed in summer 2012. As others have said likes of Hutton, Given, N'zogbia and Jenas were all experienced international players when they signed.
From what I remember, we got 15 million for Young and 19 million for Downing, and we paid 9.5 for N'Zogbia and 5 or so for Given, which leaves about 20 million. I think Hutton was basically a like-for-like replacement, maybe slightly cheaper on the wages, for Luke Young, who was sold to QPR. Then there was the Jenas loan which was cut short by his injury, but even then they farmed Makoun out in order to do that.
All that makes me think the austerity measures were already in place by then, and that the only reason any money was spent at all was because they couldn't just sit entirely on the money for Downing and Young.
I'm not sure Cahill was ever a go either, he did go cheap to Chelsea in the winter transfer window because I think at that point he only had six months left on his contract, but he would've cost twice that much in the summer.
With an indifferent Lerner at the helm the crash was inevitable but I think most people agree that completely blowing up the slight progress made during the Houllier season (Albrighton and Bannan looking like decent prospects, occasional periods where the football looked progressive) by picking McLeish was the biggest catalyst. Surely there would have been someone out there who, without being absolutely brilliant, could've at least continued on with whatever Houllier was instilling - I'd much rather have crashed and burned spectacularly with someone like Bielsa at the helm, for one...
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
Nicolas Douchez was the GK, I'm pretty sure, I remember it, because, well, juvenile.
The defender, who knows, honestly we probably needed an entire new back 4 at the time
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Cahill only actually signed for Chelsea for 7m in Jan 2012 so he'd have been within our budget.
The strategy really changed in summer 2012. As others have said likes of Hutton, Given, N'zogbia and Jenas were all experienced international players when they signed.
Given, Hutton and Jenas' careers were all regressing at that point. The first two were direct replacements for Friedel and L Young. From what I recall, Jenas' career was badly affected by injury at that point, hence was a loan. With likes of Reo Coker and Carew also leaving that summer without replacement, we were in severe cost cutting mode by then.
I had high hopes for Nzogbia, and at half the price we got for Downing he seemed great value, but he was a disaster. But what hope had he realistically trying to replace both Young and Downing. If anything McLeish was a bit unlucky. The football was rank (Hutton infamously selected on right wing v Spurs) but we seemed set for a mid table finish until a dreadful run of illness/injuries to experienced players like Petrov, Bent and Dunne hit us late on and nearly doomed us.
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
What an idiot. Going out with Pam.
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
What an idiot. Going out with Pam.
Yeah, Carmen Electra was where it was at.
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
What an idiot. Going out with Pam.
Yeah, Carmen Electra was where it was at.
Still would be.
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Probably explains a lot about the chaos under Houllier
https://twitter.com/astonforza/status/1195765608576618497?s=19
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Nice to see Dunny keeping himself in shape.
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Dunne looking in the very same shape he was in when he left us.
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I know Houllier is a cock. I’ll make the argument that even as a cock he could have improved us had he stayed. But I’ll also make the case that Richard Dunne is complete and utter wanker. The trouble he refers to is I assume the stuff with Sid Cowans. So for Collins to say what he did doesn’t make it better. The big picture for me is what a shit show we were for almost 10 years. Complete chaos.
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Those 10 years started with Dunne and Collins behaving badly. Collins was on radio the other day and when asked about his time at Villa he recalled his friendship with Dunne and Guinness sessions they both enjoyed.
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Replace him now with Alex McLeish.
😨
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Those 10 years started with Dunne and Collins behaving badly. Collins was on radio the other day and when asked about his time at Villa he recalled his friendship with Dunne and Guinness sessions they both enjoyed.
The season before they weren't far off the best centre back partnership in the division. Dunne is the last Villa player to make the EPL team of the year I believe. Both were perfectly suited to the bollock and bite defending MON preferred, (why he was allowed buy the pair of them while retaining Davies and Cuellar a clear symptom of where the root cause of our fall started).
Dunne, the summer after that infamous playoff defeat, evidently lived up to his "honey monster" moniker from his early days at Everton. Rocked up to pre season miles overweight and struggled badly to catch up. His career fizzled out really soon after after a series of injuries. Collins to be fair was a solid player for West Ham for years after. Other MON favourites (NRC, Warnock, Gabby, Carew) never did much to prove Houllier wrong.
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
What an idiot. Going out with Pam.
I dunno. She does have 1 or 2 things going for her
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I sort of remember this coming up years ago and Cabaye being touted, but also a French goalkeeper and another defender. Any ideas who they were?
I believe we were linked to the defender Adil Rami at some stage under GH. Was a good defender at the time. In more recent times he's been going out with Pamela Anderson and got sacked from Marseille for going on some reality show so might not have quite worked out long term!
What an idiot. Going out with Pam.
Yeah, Carmen Electra was where it was at.
Still would be.
Erika Eleniak...
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Those 10 years started with Dunne and Collins behaving badly. Collins was on radio the other day and when asked about his time at Villa he recalled his friendship with Dunne and Guinness sessions they both enjoyed.
When he was playing for us I once saw James Collins in O'neiils in Solihull with a pint of Guinness in hand. No sign of Dunn though.
On a related note the only other Villa player I've ever seen in a pub was Cuellar watching the Spain World Cup games in Walkabout on Broad Street in 2010.