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Author Topic: Le Tour 2017  (Read 12886 times)

Offline Jon Crofts

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Offline four fornicholl

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Offline SteveN

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2017, 07:48:51 PM »
Oh well, that's it for another year, a great sporting event.

Great performance by Froome and Sky, great tour for Barguil and Matthews, well deserved rests for De Gendt and Kwiatkowski.

The Vuelta, Tour of Britain and the Worlds to look forward to.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2017, 08:11:25 PM »
Warren Barguil smashed the ascent record of the Izoard. 38:15s

Faster than Schleck in '11 40:40s
Faster than addicts Di Luca and Ricco in '07 40:14s
Faster than Armstrong and dope hounds in '00 41:30s
Faster than Pantani in the giro of '00 40:54s

Not just slightly faster, he would have put minutes in to the lot of them.

Offline thick_mike

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2017, 08:29:05 PM »
Warren Barguil smashed the ascent record of the Izoard. 38:15s

Faster than Schleck in '11 40:40s
Faster than addicts Di Luca and Ricco in '07 40:14s
Faster than Armstrong and dope hounds in '00 41:30s
Faster than Pantani in the giro of '00 40:54s

Not just slightly faster, he would have put minutes in to the lot of them.

Wow

Offline SteveN

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2017, 10:18:52 PM »
Warren Barguil smashed the ascent record of the Izoard. 38:15s

Faster than Schleck in '11 40:40s
Faster than addicts Di Luca and Ricco in '07 40:14s
Faster than Armstrong and dope hounds in '00 41:30s
Faster than Pantani in the giro of '00 40:54s

Not just slightly faster, he would have put minutes in to the lot of them.

The first 15 were under two minutes behind Barguil.  Do you believe they are all under suspicion?

Better, lighter bikes, better training and diets, better recovery regimes and I think I'm right in saying that was the first time a stage finished on the summit so they could go flat out. Next day's stage would be gentle for GC contenders. You also have to take into account previous mountain stages, in this tour far fewer than usual.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2017, 11:32:06 PM »
Let's start with dispelling the better, lighter bike excuse first.

UCI races, including the Tour, since 2004 have a minimum bike weight of 6.8kg's.

Offline lovejoy

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2017, 07:13:20 AM »
Superhuman effort from Froome, You have to wonder.

Froome has been tested possibly more than any other cyclist over the past four years.  He is set up to peak for a specific three weeks in the year and also has the support of very strong team mates. Just a very very good athlete.

You could have said the same of Lance Armstrong about 10 years ago "I'm he most tested man on the planet" ....

Offline MoetVillan

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2017, 08:45:12 PM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2017, 01:59:02 AM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

Offline MoetVillan

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2017, 09:30:42 AM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

What?  I don't recall saying that, I said I had read a report over the weekend from a physician commenting words to that effect.  I am not qualified to say this, but I thought it interesting.  I don't condone the used of EPO's or drugs like this for one minute, one of my staff used to compete for England in the Marathons, so we have had long discussions about where he might have figured in the world had testing been more aggressive during his time.  I also think there could well be the placebo effect, enhancing the impact of drug taking.  Humans are very complex pieces of kit.

And I do believe Froome is clean, let me know when you find out otherwise, because he will be one of the most tested athletes around.  If you prove me wrong, Ill hold my hands up, but at this point he appears to be getting where he is through excellent training, sorry you cant see that.  Judging him on other peoples misdemeanours seems belittling and wrong

Offline peter w

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2017, 10:59:45 AM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

So a young rider does something stupid to cut corners gets caught and is disqualified? Hardly makes him prime candidate for EPO/Steroids or whatever once his developed into an experienced professional cyclist.

Offline MoetVillan

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2017, 11:45:11 AM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

So a young rider does something stupid to cut corners gets caught and is disqualified? Hardly makes him prime candidate for EPO/Steroids or whatever once his developed into an experienced professional cyclist.

It appears if you are successful, you must be cheating.  To be fair, it will take a long time for trust to build back for many people thanks to all the issues the sport has had.  It is an amazing event.

Offline Jon Crofts

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2017, 11:52:40 AM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

So a young rider does something stupid to cut corners gets caught and is disqualified? Hardly makes him prime candidate for EPO/Steroids or whatever once his developed into an experienced professional cyclist.

Problem is Peter there's a lot of people that think there's a bit more to it than just hanging onto a motorbike.  There is perhaps good reason to be suspicious about Froome, from his TUE exemption for corticosteroids at the 2014 Tour de Romandie and the 2013 ascent of Ventoux where his power to weight ratio and heart rate were in Lying Lance territory (over 7 watts per Kg).

Doubts will persist unfortunately.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 12:10:26 PM by Jon Crofts »

Offline MoetVillan

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Re: Le Tour 2017
« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2017, 01:00:26 PM »
I read something the other day questioning the "value" of the steroids that Lance was on.  They may not have been as near influential as we think. 

I, for the record, think Froome is clean, and some impressive athlete at that.  He reckons he has five more years in him, so could break all the records.

Wow, you honestly believe blood transfusions and EPO had a limited effect?

No wonder you think Chris Froome went from someone disqualified for holding on to a motorbike to get up a climb the day after being a domestique for Greg Henderson to possibly one of the greatest cyclists ever, whilst being clean, because he trains hard, and sleeps on his own pillow.

I'll leave the thread now, it's on a completely different level, where people think EPO doesn't do THAT much and bike weights actually matter in the 21st century.

So a young rider does something stupid to cut corners gets caught and is disqualified? Hardly makes him prime candidate for EPO/Steroids or whatever once his developed into an experienced professional cyclist.

Problem is Peter there's a lot of people that think there's a bit more to it than just hanging onto a motorbike.  There is perhaps good reason to be suspicious about Froome, from his TUE exemption for corticosteroids at the 2014 Tour de Romandie and the 2013 ascent of Ventoux where his power to weight ratio and heart rate were in Lying Lance territory (over 7 watts per Kg).

Doubts will persist unfortunately.

Is that level of "power" achievable in someone not on enhancements? (im sorry, my biology expertise only runs to litres of milk from a cow, or days to conception in the dairy cow)

 


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